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[MiX]

I copped mathdude last night and got cylon. We should exile him Today.

Did you get "cylon extremist" or just cylon? Does your cop ability detect alignment or just species?

Got cylon. I have a pretty good reason to assume that it is likely a scum result though.

Do you think math is scum, or ash-aligned?

[Dylan32]

Hey Dylan - spell it out for the slow folks here - why are you alive if ADK is dead?

Yeah, we were not bound to die with each other. The alignment literally just gave us an extra way to win that is now not possible since we did not both survive to the end of the game.

Went back and checked: for S1 it was different; i.e. if one got incapacitated, so did the other. But it makes sense that wouldn't still hold true and now be something related, but different.

Dylan, was this an AND or OR wincon, i.e. how did it interact with your regular win con?

In this case, that feels like a distinction without a difference. They aren't mutually exclusive, like in the end game we could have theoretically pulled the typical survivor play and sided with scum (or whatever faction there turns out to be this game) to clinch the win, one of us could die and then we still can win with town (current reality), or we could both survive and win with town filling both conditions. If both win cons were completed at the end of the game, my guess would be that we would get both sets of legacy points, as each condition has a separate value listed, but that's just my best interpretation of things and not an official ruling or anything.

Also, to fill in more details on the element of last game, I targeted ADK on some night, and for the rest of the game we would not be able to target each other with night actions. If I was eliminated, ADK would go down too, but not the other way around. If we both kept the same characters for this game, we would both receive something, which turned out to be a second faction and win con. Shame that it literally got wiped out D1, but ultimately this was the best case scenario for town as a whole long-term, so oh well lol. So I would not really expect more dual factions unless there were other things that created similar bonds in other ways, but it seemed like the ability was strongly tied to Caprica 6's character arc in the show, with the whole falling in love with a human thing or something.

I'll bite though and Vote: mathdude. With my opinions on the cylon stuff I said earlier, this seems like as good a place for my vote as any.

I copped mathdude last night and got cylon. We should exile him Today.

Did you get "cylon extremist" or just cylon? Does your cop ability detect alignment or just species?

Got cylon. I have a pretty good reason to assume that it is likely a scum result though.

Do you think math is scum, or ash-aligned?

Honestly, either way it's probably a good exile.

[MiX]

If I was eliminated, ADK would go down too, but not the other way around.

Lol, this just makes the other game's final day hilarious. ADK was going to die regardless of what happened.

[Dylan32]

If I was eliminated, ADK would go down too, but not the other way around.

Lol, this just makes the other game's final day hilarious. ADK was going to die regardless of what happened.

Yeah, I targeted them after a couple days where I had a pretty strong townread on them, and the next day they claimed 3rd party, and I was just like, welp... lol

[mathdude]

Math, are you part of the cylons vote?

No, that has me baffled too.

[mathdude]

I copped mathdude last night and got cylon. We should exile him Today.

As others like Glooble have said... are you saying alignment or species? Because yes, I'm fairly certain I'm Cylon species.

And I have a strong inclination that there is either more that you aren't telling us, or you are strictly lying (and got lucky guessing I'm Cylon).

It does not say if it is alignment or species.

I don't want to completely reveal everything about my copping ability. Why do you think I'm lying, and why would I guess that you were a Cylon?

If it doesn't say, why would you default to thinking it's alignment? Just to make sure the vote doesn't come back to you? Setup seems pretty clear that Cylon or Human species is not the same as alignment. If you get Cylon result, that sounds like species to me.

vote: Jack
because I can.

[Dylan32]

I copped mathdude last night and got cylon. We should exile him Today.

As others like Glooble have said... are you saying alignment or species? Because yes, I'm fairly certain I'm Cylon species.

And I have a strong inclination that there is either more that you aren't telling us, or you are strictly lying (and got lucky guessing I'm Cylon).

It does not say if it is alignment or species.

I don't want to completely reveal everything about my copping ability. Why do you think I'm lying, and why would I guess that you were a Cylon?

If it doesn't say, why would you default to thinking it's alignment? Just to make sure the vote doesn't come back to you? Setup seems pretty clear that Cylon or Human species is not the same as alignment. If you get Cylon result, that sounds like species to me.

vote: Jack
because I can.

I mean, unless his cop has a stated modifier in the name, I think alignment would be the default result there. Really, the only thing that even suggests it could be anything else is that gkrieg himself isn't voting.

[gkrieg13]

Vote: mathdude

[MiX]

Vote: mathdude

Considering the position we'll be in if math flips a fourth alignment, we need to make sure that you can't just weasel out of this if math doesn't flip cylon. I think you really need to clarify exactly what information you got.

[Dylan32]

Vote: mathdude

My bad. I just remembered not voting immediately and missed the later vote.

[Dylan32]

Vote: mathdude

My bad. I just remembered *you* not voting immediately and missed the later vote.

EBWOP

[MiX]

Vote: mathdude

My bad. I just remembered not voting immediately and missed the later vote.

That vote was actually his first post.

[gkrieg13]

Vote: mathdude

Considering the position we'll be in if math flips a fourth alignment, we need to make sure that you can't just weasel out of this if math doesn't flip cylon. I think you really need to clarify exactly what information you got.

It is best for town if I don’t reveal everything. I have said what needs to be said.

[mathdude]

Why do I think you're lying? A "cop", who has a result that they don't even know what it means doesn't out themself this early. If scum think you are actuallly, unintentionally helping them, they leave you alive. If they think you'll catch them, they will kill you. Either way, it harms town. So the move you've pulled... anti-town.

I suspect this is more helpful for your personal wincon... or character arc or whatever. I say that because I seem to have some similar interaction with powers, character arc, and only partially our town wincons. So don't try to make us all think you're doing this in towns favour. You're not.

[EFHW]

I mean, unless his cop has a stated modifier in the name, I think alignment would be the default result there. Really, the only thing that even suggests it could be anything else is that gkrieg himself isn't voting.

Didn't we decide that (non-extremist) Cylon was not an alignment this game, in particular because extremist Cylons exist? Also, there's this:

It feels like this whole attempt at living together in peace is doomed from the start if it is built on a lie.

I might be a Cylon, and there is no Cylon qt that I know of.

Obviously I don't think being a Cylon is incriminating in and of itself. I'll ISO math tomorrow.

[mathdude]

I'm going to guess, given flavour texts, results of last game, and people's suspicions, claims, and results already... that there are more Cylons this round than Humans. So rather than getting stuck here, does anyone else have anything to discuss?

[2.71828.....]

I copped mathdude last night and got cylon. We should exile him Today.

So, I haven't read much of the reaction, but being human or cylon does not make a person town or scum.

[Dylan32]

I mean, unless his cop has a stated modifier in the name, I think alignment would be the default result there. Really, the only thing that even suggests it could be anything else is that gkrieg himself isn't voting.

Didn't we decide that (non-extremist) Cylon was not an alignment this game, in particular because extremist Cylons exist? Also, there's this:

It feels like this whole attempt at living together in peace is doomed from the start if it is built on a lie.

I might be a Cylon, and there is no Cylon qt that I know of.

Obviously I don't think being a Cylon is incriminating in and of itself. I'll ISO math tomorrow.

I don't think we decided that. It was suggested it was possible, but that's not something we could possibly "know" yet, and I don't know that I believe it is most likely. I mean, read that flavor quote again. It seems to suggest that even though from a flavor standpoint being a cylon is not inherently a sign of being anti-town, the peace between the factions is tenuous at best and bound to fail at worst, in which case a faction in which a subset of cylons are actively opposed to town makes sense. Maybe that's simply the extremist group. It's possible, but we don't have enough info to know that for sure. Also, there's absolutely no logical reason to conclude that cylon-aligned doesn't exist on the basis of cylon extremists existing. That's basically the same thing as "there's no cult in the game because mafia exists." Is it possible there is not a 3rd party faction and cylon extremists are the mafia? Sure, but the fact one of them died would suggest someone else has a killing power. Perhaps a successful town vig wouldn't claim this early, but I would suggest lack of that means the kill was non-town aka non-extremist scum. There are other possibilities too, some of which work out the way you suggest, some that don't. Basically, we just don't know, and your confidence in asserting this feels mildly scummy to me.

What we do know is that there is a yellowish-orange colored cylon extremist faction, and there is a group of cylons that controls a vote. Maybe the two groups are one and the same. If they are, we essentially have to assume that the cylons vote is an anti-town vote until we are given a reason to believe otherwise. If the two groups are distinct, then maybe the cylons aren't anti-town, but until we have direct evidence to the contrary, I think the better play is to trust a cop with an early guilty result. I mean, unless gkrieg is going for an obscure 3rd party win con, it just doesn't seem like this is the move for scum this early.

ppe 2

[Dylan32]

I copped mathdude last night and got cylon. We should exile him Today.

So, I haven't read much of the reaction, but being human or cylon does not make a person town or scum.

Right, but a normal functioning cop returns alignment, not race. If gkrieg's cop ability has any indication that it is not exactly a traditional cop, then sure, this result is much less directly incriminating. In lieu of that, I would rather err on the side of following a cop than ignoring it and forcing a decision late game when we have less chance of recovering if we are wrong.

[gkrieg13]

I have strong reason to believe there are not many town-aligned Cylons.

[LaLight]

I have strong reason to believe there are not many town-aligned Cylons.

i have a strong reason to believe there are at least 2? i already mentioned i have a personal goal: when town wins have at least one human and one cylon alive. would be weird if there would be only one town-aligned Cylon.

that said, my wedding's coming, so i won't be here for some time

[MiX]

I'm going to guess, given flavour texts, results of last game, and people's suspicions, claims, and results already... that there are more Cylons this round than Humans. So rather than getting stuck here, does anyone else have anything to discuss?

I don't think this is true: a bunch of people kept their characters, and those people are almost all humans. I do agree that there's more cylons now than there were before though.

I have strong reason to believe there are not many town-aligned Cylons.

i have a strong reason to believe there are at least 2? i already mentioned i have a personal goal: when town wins have at least one human and one cylon alive. would be weird if there would be only one town-aligned Cylon.

that said, my wedding's coming, so i won't be here for some time

Not that weird: you have the same personal goal for all the games (presumably), so I don't think it's a huge factor in balancing each game. Also, given town's unique win condition, you can win while there's scum cylons alive.

In any case, I'm on board killing math. But I don't know why gkrieg had to share this result: I'm pretty sure jack had already claimed cylon?

[2.71828.....]

Day 1 Final Vote Count

MiX (3): ashersky, A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32
A Drowned Kernel (8): Jack Rudd, 2.71828....., EFHW, WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, mathdude, Cylons, gkrieg13
LaLight (3): Swowl, MiX, Glooble

No Exile (1): LaLight

Not Voting (0)

With 14 alive, it took 8 to exile.

So, here is a theory about the cylon vote. But first
1) I think it is clear that cylons don't have the same communication ability as S1
2) I think it is very likely both town and scum cylons exist

That being said, my theory is that when 3 cylons are voting for the same person, the "cylon" vote moves to that wagon.

A few reasons
- we didn't really have wagons D1. A bunch of scattered votes.
- look at the wagon. cylons (confirmed or potential) include: jack, efhw, math. Then after the math vote cylons moved.

Just given everything that has come out I think it makes sense.

[2.71828.....]

Also, not necessarily against a math exile, but not really for it either.  I just am not sure what to think of gkrieg's claim and why it makes math scum. I feel as though math has a very "MiX-like" personality in that they are very "exile-able" simply due to their play style not due to their alignment.

But just saying "X is a cylon" is not enough to convince me to vote for them

[MiX]

Day 1 Final Vote Count

MiX (3): ashersky, A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32
A Drowned Kernel (8): Jack Rudd, 2.71828....., EFHW, WestCoastDidds, scolapasta, mathdude, Cylons, gkrieg13
LaLight (3): Swowl, MiX, Glooble

No Exile (1): LaLight

Not Voting (0)

With 14 alive, it took 8 to exile.

So, here is a theory about the cylon vote. But first
1) I think it is clear that cylons don't have the same communication ability as S1
2) I think it is very likely both town and scum cylons exist

That being said, my theory is that when 3 cylons are voting for the same person, the "cylon" vote moves to that wagon.

A few reasons
- we didn't really have wagons D1. A bunch of scattered votes.
- look at the wagon. cylons (confirmed or potential) include: jack, efhw, math. Then after the math vote cylons moved.

Just given everything that has come out I think it makes sense.

If that's true, there's at most 5 cylons. Could that be true? We also know ash was a cylon, so...