This is killer with Ranger.
This is killer with Ranger.
In terms of draw, Smithy is better - Smithy gives 3 Cards per play, Rangers gives only 2.5. The one upside is that Ranger gives +Buy every play.
This is killer with Ranger.
In terms of draw, Smithy is better - Smithy gives 3 Cards per play, Rangers gives only 2.5. The one upside is that Ranger gives +Buy every play.
I feel like +4 cards, +1 action, +2 buys is generally better than +5 cards, +1 action.
This is killer with Ranger.
In terms of draw, Smithy is better - Smithy gives 3 Cards per play, Rangers gives only 2.5. The one upside is that Ranger gives +Buy every play.
I feel like +4 cards, +1 action, +2 buys is generally better than +5 cards, +1 action.
Well, it depends on whether or not you already have +Buy. If Market (Square) is in the Kingdom, then I'd throw Lost Arts on Smithy every time. If Ranger is the best source of +Buy, I'd probably token that.
This is killer with Ranger.
In terms of draw, Smithy is better - Smithy gives 3 Cards per play, Rangers gives only 2.5. The one upside is that Ranger gives +Buy every play.
I feel like +4 cards, +1 action, +2 buys is generally better than +5 cards, +1 action.
Well, it depends on whether or not you already have +Buy. If Market (Square) is in the Kingdom, then I'd throw Lost Arts on Smithy every time. If Ranger is the best source of +Buy, I'd probably token that.
You need to spend buys to acquire those Market( Square)s. It's faster to build an engine with Rangers if you can do it consistently enough that way.
The best target for lost arts isvanilla villagetactician.
My guess is that on most random boards this will be the most useful token event. There are definitely boards in which the +1 card or +1 buy may be more valuable, but I feel this is much less common than the amazing utility of making a terminal action non-terminal.I disagree. Lost Arts is only bonkers in the presence of terminal draw. Terminal draw is present in 50-70% of kingdoms, depending on how far you want to stretch the category (is Witch terminal draw? Is Watchtower?). In the remaining kingdoms, ~70% have action splitters. There probably exist some boards with villages but without terminal draw where it is worth it to get Lost Arts (Stables + Bridge, for example), but I think these are in the minority. While Lost Arts is usually a must-buy in the presence of terminal draw, this isn't always the case. I recently played an game with Lost Arts, Nobles, and Fishing Village. One of my opponents got Lost Arts on Nobles, but the rest of us got Fishing Villages and Nobles and skipped Lost Arts. Neither approach dominated the other.
This is killer with Ranger.
In terms of draw, Smithy is better - Smithy gives 3 Cards per play, Rangers gives only 2.5. The one upside is that Ranger gives +Buy every play.
This is killer with Ranger.
In terms of draw, Smithy is better - Smithy gives 3 Cards per play, Rangers gives only 2.5. The one upside is that Ranger gives +Buy every play.
You can't think of Ranger in terms of average draw like that at all. +5 cards on the first play is soooo much better than +3 cards on the first play. With Lost Arts, it removes the drawback of using two terminal slots on it, so you can basically always have it flipped the right way to start your turn. Not to mention +Buy.
Do you go for this on a board with Champion?In that game vs. SCSN, I put Lost Arts on Gear despite already being on the path towards Champion. And I did get Champion anyway, and I won, although I had a lot more experience with Adventures than he had.
Can you guys leave the ranger talk until we open a thread about it? We want to keep this thread on topic! :P
Do you go for this on a board with Champion?
And how awesome would this make Wharf!?
And how awesome would this make Wharf!?
Interestingly, Wharf actually gains les from this than other cards because it is a duration. Consider Wharf vs Margrave with Lost Arts. You will probably be able to draw your deck with both of them. Margrave gives +3 cards per turn, while Wharf gives +2 cards this turn and +3 cards next turn, so on average only 2.5 cards per turn, which is roughly the same as putting the token on Ranger.
It's still really good because Wharf is such a good card to begin with, but in general you'd prefer to put this on non-durations.
And how awesome would this make Wharf!?
Interestingly, Wharf actually gains les from this than other cards because it is a duration. Consider Wharf vs Margrave with Lost Arts. You will probably be able to draw your deck with both of them. Margrave gives +3 cards per turn, while Wharf gives +2 cards this turn and +3 cards next turn, so on average only 2.5 cards per turn, which is roughly the same as putting the token on Ranger.
It's still really good because Wharf is such a good card to begin with, but in general you'd prefer to put this on non-durations.
Huh? How does Wharf become +3 cards next turn? This is the +action token. Even if we were talking about the +card token, it triggers on this turn, not next turn.
And how awesome would this make Wharf!?
Interestingly, Wharf actually gains les from this than other cards because it is a duration. Consider Wharf vs Margrave with Lost Arts. You will probably be able to draw your deck with both of them. Margrave gives +3 cards per turn, while Wharf gives +2 cards this turn and +3 cards next turn, so on average only 2.5 cards per turn, which is roughly the same as putting the token on Ranger.
It's still really good because Wharf is such a good card to begin with, but in general you'd prefer to put this on non-durations.
Huh? How does Wharf become +3 cards next turn? This is the +action token. Even if we were talking about the +card token, it triggers on this turn, not next turn.
What he is saying is that the Duration effect of Wharf results in the same net hand size as playing a +3 Cards draw card. "+2 Cards next turn" should be thought of similarly as an action that you played this turn that drew you 3 cards. It's confusing terminology (and, like, wrong objectively) for sure, but for some players it is a better understanding than "wow Wharf is just two Moats???"
Um. This is a really amazing thing to put on Poor House in a game with trashing, because you can easily obtain lots of Poor Houses, and play several of them in a turn without having any treasure.
Um. This is a really amazing thing to put on Poor House in a game with trashing, because you can easily obtain lots of Poor Houses, and play several of them in a turn without having any treasure.
In general it’s better to put Lost Arts on draw vs payload, but situationally this is cool I guess.
Um. This is a really amazing thing to put on Poor House in a game with trashing, because you can easily obtain lots of Poor Houses, and play several of them in a turn without having any treasure.
In general it’s better to put Lost Arts on draw vs payload, but situationally this is cool I guess.
But then you can only play one Poor House, or Bridge, or whatever. Is the argument that it's better just to put it on Smithy and use Treasure as payload for better turn-to-turn reliability?
Um. This is a really amazing thing to put on Poor House in a game with trashing, because you can easily obtain lots of Poor Houses, and play several of them in a turn without having any treasure.
In general it’s better to put Lost Arts on draw vs payload, but situationally this is cool I guess.
But then you can only play one Poor House, or Bridge, or whatever. Is the argument that it's better just to put it on Smithy and use Treasure as payload for better turn-to-turn reliability?
No, the argument is that it's better to put Lost Arts on Smithy so you can draw all your villages and Poor Houses and then play them, rather than having to find your villages first before you play your Smithy so that you can then play your Lost-Artsy Bridges.
My philosophy is to just put it on the pile you want your deck to be playing the most cards from, that way you get the most extra actions. Which is more often draw than payload since you need a bunch of draw cards to draw your whole deck.
I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned the humble Steward. I once played a game in which I bought almost nothing else: once you've added Lost Arts, it's thinning, payload and engine in a single cheap card. Add a bit of +Buy and you're sorted.I guess that's because Lost Arts is arguably best with terminal draw cards anyway. The particular advantage of Steward is unlike other +2 Cards variants you want one or two early for trashing anyway. So even on board without extra buys it could be a Lost Arts target (whereas cards like Moat or Oracle might not be).
Um. This is a really amazing thing to put on Poor House in a game with trashing, because you can easily obtain lots of Poor Houses, and play several of them in a turn without having any treasure.
In general it’s better to put Lost Arts on draw vs payload, but situationally this is cool I guess.
But then you can only play one Poor House, or Bridge, or whatever. Is the argument that it's better just to put it on Smithy and use Treasure as payload for better turn-to-turn reliability?
No, the argument is that it's better to put Lost Arts on Smithy so you can draw all your villages and Poor Houses and then play them, rather than having to find your villages first before you play your Smithy so that you can then play your Lost-Artsy Bridges.
-How quickly do you want to get this?I'm going to say after you purchased 2 of that Action
-What Actions are the best targets for Lost Arts?Terminal card draws, although chains (+1 action) aren't bad either if you got terminals.
-How does it compare to the other token Events, and Teacher?Teacher takes such a long time to get to that AFAIK, it may too late more times than not
I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned the humble Steward. I once played a game in which I bought almost nothing else: once you've added Lost Arts, it's thinning, payload and engine in a single cheap card. Add a bit of +Buy and you're sorted.
I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned the humble Steward. I once played a game in which I bought almost nothing else: once you've added Lost Arts, it's thinning, payload and engine in a single cheap card. Add a bit of +Buy and you're sorted.
Usually you want to have multiples of the pimped card, and most people don't think of Steward as a card you want to have multiples of. Turning Steward into a Lab/Bat/Mystic Overlord changes that quite a bit, but given enough +Buy I would mostly spam Faithful Hound before I spam Steward.
I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned the humble Steward. I once played a game in which I bought almost nothing else: once you've added Lost Arts, it's thinning, payload and engine in a single cheap card. Add a bit of +Buy and you're sorted.
Usually you want to have multiples of the pimped card, and most people don't think of Steward as a card you want to have multiples of. Turning Steward into a Lab/Bat/Mystic Overlord changes that quite a bit, but given enough +Buy I would mostly spam Faithful Hound before I spam Steward.