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[Teproc]

A message for Amapharos:

Scum Faust probably would have continued to lead the town. The outburst should have been saved for a future game when he was town. Hanging up his hat in a game where he is scum would be a bad idea.

This assumes emotions are fake. As it has been discussed many times recently this is not a good assumption to make. Again : people don't stop being human because they're scum.

Also, "outburst" is a little strong.

If yuma is town, scum didn't kill him because he was very scummy at the end of day 1 and they figured there was a chance of him being misynched.

Also his reads are bad. Well, one of them anyway.

[Roadrunner7671]

A message for Amapharos:

Scum Faust probably would have continued to lead the town. The outburst should have been saved for a future game when he was town. Hanging up his hat in a game where he is scum would be a bad idea.

Ugh

This isn't productive. Do I get an 'ugh' because I defended Faust so poorly, an 'ugh' because my views are crazy in your eyes, or an 'ugh' for some other reason?

[yuma]

A message for Amapharos:

Scum Faust probably would have continued to lead the town. The outburst should have been saved for a future game when he was town. Hanging up his hat in a game where he is scum would be a bad idea.

Ugh

This isn't productive. Do I get an 'ugh' because I defended Faust so poorly, an 'ugh' because my views are crazy in your eyes, or an 'ugh' for some other reason?

Ugh, Ugh?

[yuma]

but mostly what teproc said... but I feel like I have been saying that for like 50+ games and I am tired of saying it.

[Roadrunner7671]

but mostly what teproc said... but I feel like I have been saying that for like 50+ games and I am tired of saying it.

Saying what most game?

[yuma]

This assumes emotions are fake. As it has been discussed many times recently this is not a good assumption to make. Again : people don't stop being human because they're scum.

[Teproc]

but mostly what teproc said... but I feel like I have been saying that for like 50+ games and I am tired of saying it.

Saying what most game?

That you should never assume people are faking emotions.

If you're not going to trust the reasoning, trust the experience. I've been playing on these boards for a little over two years, yuma more than three. I don't think I've ever seen scum completely fake an emotional reaction. I have seen scum get upset at stuff. Very upset in fact. And maybe sometimes scum uses the position that puts them in to their advantage, but the point is : it doesn't happen. Also it's not very nice when you're upset and all people are talking about is how you could be scum faking it.

More to the point of this particular game : that particular faust post is one he could make as any alignment. Being frustrated with meta expectations happens to everyone.

[Roadrunner7671]

but mostly what teproc said... but I feel like I have been saying that for like 50+ games and I am tired of saying it.

Saying what most game?

That you should never assume people are faking emotions.

If you're not going to trust the reasoning, trust the experience. I've been playing on these boards for a little over two years, yuma more than three. I don't think I've ever seen scum completely fake an emotional reaction. I have seen scum get upset at stuff. Very upset in fact. And maybe sometimes scum uses the position that puts them in to their advantage, but the point is : it doesn't happen. Also it's not very nice when you're upset and all people are talking about is how you could be scum faking it.

More to the point of this particular game : that particular faust post is one he could make as any alignment. Being frustrated with meta expectations happens to everyone.

No, I'm saying he can't possibly be faking it!

It's a towny thing to do in my opinion, and I don't think it's fake.

[Witherweaver]

Hi my name is Roadrunner and I like to miss the point.

[Roadrunner7671]

Hi my name is Roadrunner and I like to miss the point.

Should I add that to my meta list?

[yuma]

but mostly what teproc said... but I feel like I have been saying that for like 50+ games and I am tired of saying it.

Saying what most game?

That you should never assume people are faking emotions.

If you're not going to trust the reasoning, trust the experience. I've been playing on these boards for a little over two years, yuma more than three. I don't think I've ever seen scum completely fake an emotional reaction. I have seen scum get upset at stuff. Very upset in fact. And maybe sometimes scum uses the position that puts them in to their advantage, but the point is : it doesn't happen. Also it's not very nice when you're upset and all people are talking about is how you could be scum faking it.

More to the point of this particular game : that particular faust post is one he could make as any alignment. Being frustrated with meta expectations happens to everyone.

No, I'm saying he can't possibly be faking it!

It's a towny thing to do in my opinion, and I don't think it's fake.

But you are asserting that on the other hand scum are incapable of having such emotion and thus any time the exhibit emotion as scum, that it must be fake. That has been proven false again and again.

Teproc and I are saying that emotions are practically never fake and thus can't be used as a reliable barometer for whether or not someone is town or mafia.

[Teproc]

Right, but "it's real" doesn't equal "it's towny". You're free to think that in this particular case it is townie of course, but the point is that scum can have emotional reactions too, and the way you've been presenting this is "well if he was scum he'd be faking it, but it seems real so he's town".

PPE (WW) : Be nice, you. And vote for someone. Someone's who's scum, preferably.

[Witherweaver]

Right, but "it's real" doesn't equal "it's towny". You're free to think that in this particular case it is townie of course, but the point is that scum can have emotional reactions too, and the way you've been presenting this is "well if he was scum he'd be faking it, but it seems real so he's town".

PPE (WW) : Be nice, you. And vote for someone. Someone's who's scum, preferably.

Vote: Faust

[Roadrunner7671]

As Yuma would say, 'ugh.'

I have no idea how you guys got 'RR is saying scum can't have emotion' from my post.
Do I need to be more clear? Scum can have emotion, but it's not tactical to let your emotion override your chances to win. I consider Faust to be a very tactical player, I think he knows this.

I'm just looking crazier and crazier the more I post, aren't I?
PPE 2

[Teproc]

As Yuma would say, 'ugh.'

I have no idea how you guys got 'RR is saying scum can't have emotion' from my post.
Do I need to be more clear? Scum can have emotion, but it's not tactical to let your emotion override your chances to win. I consider Faust to be a very tactical player, I think he knows this.

I'm just looking crazier and crazier the more I post, aren't I?
PPE 2

Ok. This is where we come back to my other point, which is that faust just had a little rant about meta expectations. Not sure how that constitues "emotion overriding your chances to win".

[Roadrunner7671]

It probably doesn't. At this point, I should just shut my mouth and let the day play out, maybe join Hydrad in his corner. But I don't think I am coming off as scummy from this, so I will mine as well continue to be stubborn.

[Teproc]

It's fine to disagree. You think faust is town, fine. Who do you think is scum again ?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.3:

2.7 (1): Haddock
yuma (1): EgorK
faust (4): Teproc, Ampharos, iguanaiguana, WW
Ampharos (2): Hydrad, RR
EgorK (1): yuma
WW (1): faust

Not Voting (1): 2.7

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day Two ends at 3:00 a.m. on December 19.

[Roadrunner7671]

It's fine to disagree. You think faust is town, fine. Who do you think is scum again ?

Amapharos

[faust]

I think his point is that as Traitor, you had to figure everyone's alignment out.  As Town, you have to figure everyone's alignment out.  As regular Mafia, you know the alignments (modulo third parties).  It isn't as bad of a point as you make it out to be.

Except that in that game, I knew you were my partner from D2 and worked the whole game around this. Also, as Traitor I may have to figure alignments out, but I certainly don't want to share my results with the rest of the town, so meh.

[faust]

Hi my name is Roadrunner and I like to miss the point.

I had an angry response to this, but decided to delete it.

[faust]

Right, but "it's real" doesn't equal "it's towny". You're free to think that in this particular case it is townie of course, but the point is that scum can have emotional reactions too, and the way you've been presenting this is "well if he was scum he'd be faking it, but it seems real so he's town".

PPE (WW) : Be nice, you. And vote for someone. Someone's who's scum, preferably.

Vote: Faust

Come on. Sure you could do something more useful with your vote.

[Roadrunner7671]

Hi my name is Roadrunner and I like to miss the point.

I had an angry response to this, but decided to delete it.

Why does everyone think this is so terrible?

[Witherweaver]

Right, but "it's real" doesn't equal "it's towny". You're free to think that in this particular case it is townie of course, but the point is that scum can have emotional reactions too, and the way you've been presenting this is "well if he was scum he'd be faking it, but it seems real so he's town".

PPE (WW) : Be nice, you. And vote for someone. Someone's who's scum, preferably.

Vote: Faust

Come on. Sure you could do something more useful with your vote.

I was going to sheep you, but it didn't work.

[iguanaiguana]

Hi my name is Roadrunner and I like to miss the point.

Should I add that to my meta list?

It's kinda funny to imagine Roadrunner opening this random word document on his computer that is a list of, currently, like maybe six things about himself that he's not even sure are true, and then adding one more because someone else said it about him.

Don't worry Roadrunner, we'll help you figure out you!