Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Topic started by: jacobb on May 12, 2016, 08:22:40 am
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I am excited to see an offline version in the works, but from what I understand it will only be against AI. I would love to see an offline pass and play mode. While I'm not trying to be "that guy", it really would make the difference between whether I buy it or not.
Good luck!
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I am excited to see an offline version in the works, but from what I understand it will only be against AI. I would love to see an offline pass and play mode. While I'm not trying to be "that guy", it really would make the difference between whether I buy it or not.
Good luck!
How would reactions work without letting any player see another player's hand?
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I am excited to see an offline version in the works, but from what I understand it will only be against AI. I would love to see an offline pass and play mode. While I'm not trying to be "that guy", it really would make the difference between whether I buy it or not.
Good luck!
Thanks, we'll consider it.
I am excited to see an offline version in the works, but from what I understand it will only be against AI. I would love to see an offline pass and play mode. While I'm not trying to be "that guy", it really would make the difference between whether I buy it or not.
Good luck!
How would reactions work without letting any player see another player's hand?
You could have a big blank screen with just the word "Pass" that the next player has to tap once he has been passed the device. Another option is autoplay for reactions during another player's turn with the settings only adjustable during your own turn. Or you could restrict the card pool to cards that are pass-and-play friendly (or at least have this as an option).
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I like the idea, and think playing with pass-and-play friendly cards is probably the best option. Of course if people want to play with the less friendly cards, and they can be worked around, that seems fine, but I think the format would get really clunky if the wrong set of cards got picked.
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I think pass-and-play is a really poor fit for Dominion
I do think the "offline" almost needs to have local wireless play. And such games should use the union of all the players' cards. If that means the expansions need to be slightly pricier, fine.
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I am excited to see an offline version in the works, but from what I understand it will only be against AI. I would love to see an offline pass and play mode. While I'm not trying to be "that guy", it really would make the difference between whether I buy it or not.
Good luck!
Thanks, we'll consider it.
I am excited to see an offline version in the works, but from what I understand it will only be against AI. I would love to see an offline pass and play mode. While I'm not trying to be "that guy", it really would make the difference between whether I buy it or not.
Good luck!
How would reactions work without letting any player see another player's hand?
You could have a big blank screen with just the word "Pass" that the next player has to tap once he has been passed the device. Another option is autoplay for reactions during another player's turn with the settings only adjustable during your own turn. Or you could restrict the card pool to cards that are pass-and-play friendly (or at least have this as an option).
I really like both ideas. Thanks for considering it.
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I think pass-and-play is a really poor fit for Dominion
"I played Militia."
*passes*
"Okay, I discarded."
*passes*
"Okay, I play Saboteur, and trashed a card."
*passes*
"Okay, I picked a new card to gain."
*passes*
"Okay, I played Masquerade."
*passes*
"Okay, I passed a card."
*passes*
*looks around empty room*
"I'm so alone."
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Put me in the "I will buy (well, use my free credit on) Dominion Offline if it has pass and play but won't if it doesn't" camp. So, you'll start getting $3/month from me a year sooner if you include this feature, and I won't buy this without it.
To solve all those annoying interactions you can just limit kingdoms to not having Masquerade or whatever. One discard attack a turn won't kill everyone. I would really like pass and play for stubborn friends who don't like physical cards or for airplane trips or whatever.
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Yeah, ditto. I have a bunch of IRL friends who I get to play Dominion with maybe once a year. At that rate, even if I do have to wait a day to see what they discard to my Militia, I'm still better off.
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I don't see how pass-and-play is really much better than solitaire. You can't see what the other players did on their turns unless there's some kind of turn replay feature. If you want pass-and-play, play Scrabble or something.
You know what would be great for pass-and-play? Kingdom Builder. Does the Kingdom Builder app have pass-and-play?
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Or maybe we should just let ShuffleIt sell a product to people even though we can't figure out why anyone would want it.
It's obvious that there are many people who do want it, I don't see the point in trying to convince them they shouldn't want it.
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I wonder how many cards are actually "unfriendly" by the most generous definition to pass-and-play, that is, cards where someone has to make a decision during someone else's turn.
Attacks where the attacked part gets to make some decision: Bureaucrat, Militia, Saboteur, Torturer, Ghost Ship, Mountebank, Rabble, Goons, Young Witch, Followers (and by extension Tournament), Oracle, Margrave, Knights, Rogue, Urchin, Mercenary, Soldier (and by extension Peasant). Almost all of these are handsize attacks, so I guess they will have to go. Also, handsize attacks are not obvious decisions, unlike some of the others. Only Young Witch really is an obvious decision.
All the reaction cards that can be used in other players' turns (Hovel is the only reaction card that can not). Moat, Caravan Guard and Horse Traders are going to be reacted in almost all cases, so can be probably automated without great loss. Beggar, Secret Chamber, Fool's Gold, Market Square, Tunnel, Watchtower and Trader could be a bit slow, though obviously Secret Chamber is far slower than anything else. Fool's Gold is probably just fine.
Various other cards that give decisions to other players when played: Bishop, Vault, Duchess, Tournament, Contraband, Advisor, Envoy, Masquerade, Governor. These are potentially the slowest, since people tend to want to stack up on them and their effects stack. Governor in particular might be rather poorly suited for it.
Overall, if someone decides to make a set with "pass and play-problematic" cards removed, mostly reactions and handsize attacks will be affected. And there are still like 200 other good Dominion cards to play with. There are still going to be plenty of attacks (almost all the junkers, a few deck inspection attacks, and all of the unique attacks from Adventures) and other types of interaction left (Lost City, Smugglers, Embargo, Embassy, Council Room etc.).
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Whilw all the above mentioned features would be nice, the single most important selling point for me would be having bots that do not suck.
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I think pass-and-play is a really poor fit for Dominion
"I played Militia."
*passes*
"Okay, I discarded."
*passes*
"Okay, I play Saboteur, and trashed a card."
*passes*
"Okay, I picked a new card to gain."
*passes*
"Okay, I played Masquerade."
*passes*
"Okay, I passed a card."
*passes*
*looks around empty room*
"I'm so alone."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaATMH0m7bw
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Or maybe we should just let ShuffleIt sell a product to people even though we can't figure out why anyone would want it.
It's obvious that there are many people who do want it, I don't see the point in trying to convince them they shouldn't want it.
Because providing a bad product makes a company look bad. "This mode sucks! Why did they even include it? Idiots."
Also it's time that could be spent on providing features that are actually worth having.
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Or maybe we should just let ShuffleIt sell a product to people even though we can't figure out why anyone would want it.
It's obvious that there are many people who do want it, I don't see the point in trying to convince them they shouldn't want it.
Because providing a bad product makes a company look bad. "This mode sucks! Why did they even include it? Idiots."
Also it's time that could be spent on providing features that are actually worth having.
Agree, the #1 priority should be getting a working system on desktops & phones/tablets.
After that, funky features like this could be added.
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I feel that better than pass-and-play would be something like bluetooth connectivity in offline mode, so you could play locally with two machines without needing internet connection.
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I don't see how pass-and-play is really much better than solitaire. You can't see what the other players did on their turns unless there's some kind of turn replay feature. If you want pass-and-play, play Scrabble or something.
You know what would be great for pass-and-play? Kingdom Builder. Does the Kingdom Builder app have pass-and-play?
Yes, it does.
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I don't see how pass-and-play is really much better than solitaire. You can't see what the other players did on their turns unless there's some kind of turn replay feature. If you want pass-and-play, play Scrabble or something.
You know what would be great for pass-and-play? Kingdom Builder. Does the Kingdom Builder app have pass-and-play?
You can just watch eachother's turns, the strategic benefit is decently minimal.
The comparison to solitaire seems kinda harsh because sometimes people just want to connect to other face to face humans in some way, even if that involves an imperfect game mode on a game they both love.
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I really like that idea. Good old Hot-Seat.
You pass the tablet around and have the game mirrored to the TV.
This is clearly just for the casual players and seeing your opponents hand doesn´t really matter in casual games.
I would very much like such an option.
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When each person has their own device, that's technically not PnP.
PnP definitions aside (that's pass 'n play board gamers... not Print and Play ;)), Using Bluetooth or local wifi network could work out better for some.
There's merit to this, as folks may not want to have to deal with online connectivity. A feature where you push a button and it replays players' turns via animation or game logs could solve the issue of "what did you do on your turn?". Amongst some of the f2f games, other players only care about what they bought. A Province, a Gold, etc. They don't want to sit through and know the gory details of how you played a Village, played another Village, played a Market, played a Smithy, played an Oasis, discarded an Estate, played another Oasis, discarded a Copper, etc.
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I do think the "offline" almost needs to have local wireless play. And such games should use the union of all the players' cards. If that means the expansions need to be slightly pricier, fine.
+1 to this! I play Dominion Online exclusively with people I know and 90% of the time we are in the same room... it is just easier to get a quick game in, and that's often all we have time for.
I doubt I'll buy any more expansions if the only two options are online subscription and play against bots. I will hold out hope that there will be another way in the future, and will hold onto my current purchases until then, I guess!
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I really like that idea. Good old Hot-Seat.
You pass the tablet around and have the game mirrored to the TV.
This is clearly just for the casual players and seeing your opponents hand doesn´t really matter in casual games.
I would very much like such an option.
You could have the board on the tv but have all the hidden info on the tablet.
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I really like that idea. Good old Hot-Seat.
You pass the tablet around and have the game mirrored to the TV.
This is clearly just for the casual players and seeing your opponents hand doesn´t really matter in casual games.
I would very much like such an option.
You could have the board on the tv but have all the hidden info on the tablet.
Sounds like a great idea for the Wii U / NX port of Dominion Online! A thing that totally will happen.
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I really like that idea. Good old Hot-Seat.
You pass the tablet around and have the game mirrored to the TV.
This is clearly just for the casual players and seeing your opponents hand doesn´t really matter in casual games.
I would very much like such an option.
You could have the board on the tv but have all the hidden info on the tablet.
Sounds like a great idea for the Wii U / NX port of Dominion Online! A thing that totally will happen.
Or the Apple TV version.
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Cards that require other players to make decisions on turns that aren't theirs:
* Only in games with attacks
** Only in games with interactive cards
# Only complicated due to edge cases
^ Complicated due to reordering cards
Moat*
Bureaucrat
Militia
Bandit
Masquerade (although passing around the screen may be fun flavour)
Diplomat*
Torturer
(Saboteur)
(Smugglers is fine but game logs would be extra important)
Ghost Ship
(Possession is fine but perhaps a different wording would be more appropriate)
Watchtower**
Bishop
Contraband
Mountebank #
Rabble ^
Vault
Goons
Horse Traders*
Tournament (# for on play, but unambiguous for Followers)
Young Witch #
Duchess
Fool's Gold
Oracle ^
Tunnel **,#
Trader **
Mandarin **,#,^ (Only incompatible with Crown: if you gain a Mandarin on a turn that isn't yours and you have two of Crown, Overlord acting as Crown, and an Inherited Estate acting as Crown in play)
Inn **, # (very rare that you'd gain an Inn on a turn other than yours)
Margrave
Border Village **, # (see above)
Beggar *
Market Square **
Urchin
Catacombs **
Knights
Rogue
Hunting Grounds **
Advisor
Page (due to Solider)
Caravan Guard *
Duplicate **
Castles (due to Haunted Castle)
Catapult
Gladiator #
Crown **,# (Only incompatible with Mandarin in the circumstances listed next to it)
Legionary
(Mountain Pass requires passing around but it happens between player's turns)
Envoy
Governor (due to the Remodel option)
Stash **
(Band of Misfits, Inheritance and Overlord and Events are only issues with other cards on the list)
(Coin on the Realm and Royal Carriage are only issues with Caravan Guard)
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I don't see how pass-and-play is really much better than solitaire. You can't see what the other players did on their turns unless there's some kind of turn replay feature. If you want pass-and-play, play Scrabble or something.
You know what would be great for pass-and-play? Kingdom Builder. Does the Kingdom Builder app have pass-and-play?
This ends up happening in the IRL version anyways... having to ask what each player did, so same difference here if it's between a game log or animation.
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I don't see how pass-and-play is really much better than solitaire. You can't see what the other players did on their turns unless there's some kind of turn replay feature. If you want pass-and-play, play Scrabble or something.
You know what would be great for pass-and-play? Kingdom Builder. Does the Kingdom Builder app have pass-and-play?
This ends up happening in the IRL version anyways... having to ask what each player did, so same difference here if it's between a game log or animation.
If people actually announced cards they were playing and buying like it says to in the rules, then this wouldn't be an issue in real-life games.
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If people actually announced cards they were playing and buying like it says to in the rules, then this wouldn't be an issue in real-life games.
Someone's testy. :P
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I don't see how pass-and-play is really much better than solitaire. You can't see what the other players did on their turns unless there's some kind of turn replay feature. If you want pass-and-play, play Scrabble or something.
You know what would be great for pass-and-play? Kingdom Builder. Does the Kingdom Builder app have pass-and-play?
This ends up happening in the IRL version anyways... having to ask what each player did, so same difference here if it's between a game log or animation.
If people actually announced cards they were playing and buying like it says to in the rules, then this wouldn't be an issue in real-life games.
If someone's taking a long turn, they would rather just be told "I bought a Province and Duchy", rather than having to pay attention for a minute just to get a few seconds worth of relevant info.
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I really would like to love the offline play. Hot-seat and LAN-play would be really nice. However, I am a bit worried about bugfixes.
Another point that would be great, is to have an interface to write AIs.