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[yuma]

Ash I read your post, but I am going to respond to one thing before anything else...

This is a really long paragraph to say "ash, you suck at this game because while you catch scum as town, we all think you are lying scum when you are town so fix it felix or gtfo."

If this is how you took that paragraph to be I apologize. In rereading I saw that it could be taken that way and that wasn't my intent. I think we have had the conversation in the past where I said that while your meta drives me crazy, that is ok... we have different play styles. Big deal. If everyone had the same play style this would be a pretty boring game. What I meant to say was that if you are changing your meta I fully support it. If you aren't, that is ok as well. But in this game, this one... Mean Girls... it looked like you are changing--well at least up until now--or that you are scum trying to semi-replicate it.

But what I absolutely was not saying was that you should either change or stop playing with us. No. I don't think that and don't want you to think that I think that way either. However, I still reserve the right to comment on your playstyle and to note that it has some draw backs... as does everyone's. Take mine! I try and be pro-town in a game and then everyone thinks.... Hmmmm... yuma is being pro-town, he must be scum! so let's ignore his suggestions about soft deadlines and such since he must be trying to manipulate everyone. That is a drawback. I haven't figured out a way to get around it... Your meta has drawbacks as well. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is a thing. And I really do mean that it isn't just your responsibility to change it. Not at all. I meant what I said when us other players were responsible for letting the parts of your game in bankers distract us. It is what I was talking about in Pirates... where I let the emotion get to me rather than the logic. It is the same situation. I was emotionally distracted by some of the stuff you did and it led me to making bad decisions. The blame is on both of us.

But really that was all beside the point. And my main point was at the bottom which you addressed and if needed I'll comment on that in a separate post

But anyways. I apologize if I came across as a jerk. I dont' think I am a jerk, but these situations come up often enough that maybe I am and should work on that.

[yuma]

Ugh, I'm still way behind in this, and unlikely to catch up until at least tomorrow. Deadline not for a while, right?

I think hard deadline is Saturday at some point.

[Robz888]

Oh well that's plenty of time. Okay, I'll be back in this game sometime soon.

[yuma]

regarding the rest... and I'll try to keep it short since we are kinda dominating the thread at the moment...

 - regarding eevee - I only looked at him because lio specifically asked about the two of you and I found... not much. Just a focus on mail-mi. I talked about that and then there wasn't more to talk about? I don't see what is wrong with that. I mention that I found some scummy things from day1. But if you want to know what they are, ask... or go back and reread.

- both scummier than lio/mcmc? Yes! I think so. I don't see why this is so inconceivable especially because right above this I said I was leaning more toward them being town v town... I have slight scum reads on the both of you--not xeiron type reads, but something--and kinda have all day2 and have slight town reads on mcmc/lio. Just because you and mcmc are tunneling mcmc and lio respectively doesn't mean the rest of us are going to as well.

- I asked mcmc a question about xeiron because he was in that game and was partner with xeiron!!! Who better to ask about scum!xeiron than someone that was partners with him! Goodness. Maybe I should ask Robz or you who weren't even in that game what you guys thought instead of Scummy McScumscum mcmc... Sheesh. And even if mcmc is scum, don't you think his response is worth getting?

- your point about three wagons basically is... "it isn't smart for scum to be on all three wagons" I ask why is that? The answer? Because it is scummy! that is why it is a bad idea. You say the same thing, but in a different way. But since it is you... it isn't scummy because that would be "bad scum play" and you wouldn't do that as scum...

 - I do look at interactions. I just prefer to call scum teams after I know the alignment 100% of one of them. Honestly I think that was the biggest problem we had in Pirates... It was necessary, but it was a huge problem. Instead of deciding between eevee/galz we decided between their potential partners and it allowed town to become distracted. Here where we know even less... again a huge distraction... In trying to keep an open mind, in the next few days I'll go look at mcmc... again and try to see it from your perspective with an open mind.

- scum slips. The problem I have with them are the half-dozen times or so you have called me out for these "supposed" scum slips when I was Town! So they can't be scum slips if I am town. And I have seen you do the same to other players as well. You already did this game to sudgy late day1... your 17% joking one. I just don't think they are as useful as you think they are. Not by a long shot.

[liopoil]

I'll try to keep it short since we are kinda dominating the thread at the moment...

I don't think it is a problem. good interactions to look at later!

[mcmcsalot]

Town: robz, Yuma(gut read should probably reread)

Wow I just spent about 10 min scrolling down and up checking why I only had 9+me and there were 11 players. Finally realized yuma's post count skips the number 7...

That alone is good enough grounds for an RVS vote! shame we're in the middle of D2 

But really, a gut town read on Yuma is essentially a scumread!

what do you mean by advantageous position for ashersky?

Ash saying me and you are scum together. I know I am town, so lynching me and you is either 1 town, 1 scum, or 2 town. Normally 1 for 1 is good for town, and I still think it is here but I am and have been pushing your lynch for a long time. So lets say chances you are going to get lynched are higher than average I think then, 1 for 1 is good for scum(better than 1 for 0) and if I am wrong about you 2 town lynches is amazing for scum. So if you are town or scum, ash pushing for the fact that me and you are a scum team together is really good for scum!ash and really bad for town!ash, I think that makes ash much more likely to be scum.

Man, who does this?  "I know!  I'll just say TWO players are scum so we can mislynch them both!  That'll work awesomely!"

You honestly see scum!ash doing that?  Am I not a vet to you?  Actually, do you see anyone doing that as scum?  That you argue it is "really good for scum" tells me you are building fake cases to take the heat off of you, which you have.

Insanely terrible case from obv!scum.

I think the big problem with both of your statements is that you both are making assumptions that neither of you should be making!

All of ash's arguments assume that mcmc is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that lio is his partner and that they are staging an argument/bussing...)

All of mcmc's arguments assume that lio is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that ash must be trying for a 1 v 1 trade since he figures that lio is going to get lynched anyways...)

How bout we lynch one player at a time and then worry about the rest after we get a flip, huh?

Woah yuma, thats not what I said. I said ashersky was in an advantageous position because if liopoil is scum it's a 1town(me) for 1scum(lio) which is normally good for town but take into account the likelyhood that just liopoil gets lynched(1scum) and 1 for 1 is better OR liopoil is town and then ash is just setting up two town lynches, saying we are scum together I guarantee he still thinks one of us is scum if the other flips town. And I viewed this from town!ash and scum!ash perspective, scum!ash is the one who benefits most from me and liopoil's lynch so I think ash is scum regardless of liopoil's alignment. If people wanted to lynch ash I would do that, hence him bieng a scum read of mine.

[spiritbears]

Hey,  I couldn't pay my internet bill and will be semi-vla until Thursday. I'm going to try to keep up and keep posting, (I have s little time on my phone, but after that I have to venture out from my house...something I don't do very much.).

With that in mind, I'm goingto get my vote in while I can. 
vote X

Also if Lio flips  scum. I think mc would expect major town cred. Most of us would I think). Really if Lio gets lynched he is responsible, no one had Lio as a scumread before mc's {weak I think} case. Mx's tunnelling strategy rally puts him in a dangerous position I think. Especially since he basically refused to read/contribute to any otherwwagon or even vote. Lurking/tunneling like this seems to me me one of the top reasons to lunch someone. He's a solid vet, he knows this. That's why I think it's just too DAMN risky.  If Lio is town he would would probably be the next lynch (1for1)   if Lio flips scum...well you get the pic.
I k is this isn't anything new. But I'm just explaining why I'm not on the nd bus Yuma.

[Eevee]

I'm back home! Expect a catch up post during the next 5 hours.

[shraeye]

Vote Count 2.4--probably wrong, let me know what to fix.
mcmcsalot (1): ashersky
liopoil (3): mcmcsalot, xeiron, mail-mi
xeiron (3): yuma, liopoil, spiritbears
mail-mi (1): Eevee

Not voting: AHoppy, Robz888

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Saturday, June 8th

[mail-mi]

I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmc

[spiritbears]

I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmc

I don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?

[mail-mi]

I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmc

I don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?

Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.

[spiritbears]

I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmc

I don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?

Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.

That wasn't the question.  A pretty weasly response....

[mail-mi]

I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmc

I don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?

Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.

That wasn't the question.  A pretty weasly response....

Okay. Yes I have considered the case. I'd rather lynch mcmc.

[spiritbears]

I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmc

I don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?

Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.

That wasn't the question.  A pretty weasly response....

Okay. Yes I have considered the case. I'd rather lynch mcmc.

Ok. Let me try this again since we seem to be miscommunicating...
If there are not enough votes for an mc lynch would you be willing ginger on out wagon, or are you going to sit it out even if it costs us a no-lynch.  Or do you find the the X case so meritless you are unwilling to join it at all?  Or something else? 

[spiritbears]

(Join or wagon) not "ginger"

[xeiron]

I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmc

I don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?

Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.

That wasn't the question.  A pretty weasly response....

Okay. Yes I have considered the case. I'd rather lynch mcmc.

Ok. Let me try this again since we seem to be miscommunicating...
If there are not enough votes for an mc lynch would you be willing ginger on out wagon, or are you going to sit it out even if it costs us a no-lynch.  Or do you find the the X case so meritless you are unwilling to join it at all?  Or something else?

I think mail-mi means to say that he for now assume that there is enough votes for an mcmc-lynch.
Can I ask you the same question.
Would you be willing to join ab liopoil or mcmc-lynch if the wagon on me should die?

[ashersky]

Soft deadline is coming up soon.

We have 2 on mcmc, 2 on lio, and 3 on xeiron.  Ahoppy, Robz, and Eevee are the three not on one of those three.  What's the plan of action, Robz?

[ashersky]

Ok. Let me try this again since we seem to be miscommunicating...
If there are not enough votes for an mc lynch would you be willing ginger on out wagon, or are you going to sit it out even if it costs us a no-lynch.  Or do you find the the X case so meritless you are unwilling to join it at all?  Or something else?

I'm fairly confident that mail-mi (or anyone else) wouldn't let the day go to no-lynch, as that would be very bad.

[ashersky]

I'm back home! Expect a catch up post during the next 5 hours.

It's been more than 5 hours.  Let's get this game active!

[spiritbears]

I'm back home! Expect a catch up post during the next 5 hours.

It's been more than 5 hours.  Let's get this game active!

No kidding
As to xerion's question.  Yes. I'm willing to listen on all of the lunch possibilities. However I don't think the mc lynch is is viable for now and I don't support it (unless I see something different that convinces me). I think we have teo good possibilities for today: xerion and Mai. I would vote for either..

[liopoil]

mcmc doesn't get major towncred if I flip scum; not that I will, but as ash said it's plausible from other's perspective that this is staged.

Let's lynch xeiron.

Robz???

[mcmcsalot]

I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmc

I don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?

Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.

Why? You've now played with me as scum.

[spiritbears]

That inferaction with Mai has me very comfortable with lynching either him or xerion....2 good targets, lets line up the votes.  (Robzzzzz!?!)

[yuma]

That inferaction with Mai has me very comfortable with lynching either him or xerion....2 good targets, lets line up the votes.  (Robzzzzz!?!)

Like I said above I am uncomfortable lynching mail-mi while he is VLA. Lynching him without giving him a a chance to fully respond, claim and provide reads before death isn't ideal. If he was obviscum, or if we were at mylo... maybe I would consider it, but we aren't right now. It sucks that VLA has to affect the game, especially if mail-mi is mafia and is getting a free pass today, but that is just the nature of online games that take weeks to complete.