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[Eevee]

This is not scum Robz people! I guess he could be intentionally playing like this, but as this game shows, it's not a very good option for him and man he loves winning his scum games, so..
I'd be willing to vote sudgy now if it's going to be Robz otherwise.

I get what you are saying here... and the only problem I have with it is that I was basically saying the same thing in the last blitz game where robz was being crazy. You remember? I basically said, no way this is scum!Robz. he is attracting too much attention and basically everyone agreed with me and we let him live. But like I said before, because of this and other examples, I can't rely on meta to understand robz. I hvae to rely on behavior and right now his behavior is scummy.

Eevee let me ask you this... if this behavior were from another player--one that was brand new... lets call him ZobR... would you find it scummy? Remove the Robz meta from it and analyze it just as behavior.

I would! So so scummy. I think the cases on Robz and mail-mi were quite similar actually, and for Robz I thought that behavior was actually a towntell but for mail-mi a scum tell. I would in fact probably be voting for Robz now if it was anyone but Robz. I feel quite good about my abilities of distinguishing between town and scum Robz these days btw. Not in a "he is easy to catch" kind of way, but in a "I think fooling me is harder for him than fooling others is". I might just have gotten lucky though.

[ashersky]

Don't support the aHoppy suspicion, just come back to sud-gee Robz!

I think this is the crux of the whole thing now.

If you feel that Robz is town, then you are basically placing yourself in the Robz camp for the foreseeable future by voting with him.  You are putting your hand on your heart and pledging your soul to him.

Or you are voting for Robz.

That seems to be the breakdown at this point.

[nkirbit]

Yuma, Eevee, and anyone else who can answer this:

What does town!Robz play like?  Is it this?  Or does his town meta change as much as you say his scum meta does?

So far I've only heard you talk about if this Robz makes sense with other scum!Robz you have seen previously.  But what about the opposite?

[ashersky]

I would! So so scummy. I think the cases on Robz and mail-mi were quite similar actually, and for Robz I thought that behavior was actually a towntell but for mail-mi a scum tell. I would in fact probably be voting for Robz now if it was anyone but Robz. I feel quite good about my abilities of distinguishing between town and scum Robz these days btw. Not in a "he is easy to catch" kind of way, but in a "I think fooling me is harder for him than fooling others is". I might just have gotten lucky though.

What about the "he's my scum partner that I chose because duh he's Robz" way?  Cause this could be that, where you are saving a partner.

[ashersky]

Yuma, Eevee, and anyone else who can answer this:

What does town!Robz play like?  Is it this?  Or does his town meta change as much as you say his scum meta does?

So far I've only heard you talk about if this Robz makes sense with other scum!Robz you have seen previously.  But what about the opposite?

Town Robz is a phenomenal scumhunter who destroys souls.  He's like the Jack Black of Town.  He's an unstoppable force.  And so he started getting NKed or mislynched D1 and N1 over and over.  So he just stopped being bodacious early in games to counter that.  And then he found that when he was scum, he could just continue to do that and get the town pass.

[sudgy]

From what I've seen, Robz doesn't have a meta.  In a sense.  It's always changing.

Now, something I'd like to note: in almost every single game I've played here, I've been seriously considered of being scum.  My first game (MXXI) I was mislynched for a flawless scum victory.  Another one (RMM7), I was scum and got lynched (although that one was one of the ones I was suspected the least).  In MXXII, I would have been lynched if I hadn't managed to bring IC status to myself.  And in MXXIV, people were starting to say they thought I was like I was in RMM7 but then got un-suspiciouned when I was on a scum wagon two times in a row.

Anyway, long story short: People seem to think I'm scum a lot.  Especially when I'm town.

[Eevee]

I would! So so scummy. I think the cases on Robz and mail-mi were quite similar actually, and for Robz I thought that behavior was actually a towntell but for mail-mi a scum tell. I would in fact probably be voting for Robz now if it was anyone but Robz. I feel quite good about my abilities of distinguishing between town and scum Robz these days btw. Not in a "he is easy to catch" kind of way, but in a "I think fooling me is harder for him than fooling others is". I might just have gotten lucky though.

What about the "he's my scum partner that I chose because duh he's Robz" way?  Cause this could be that, where you are saving a partner.

Yeah, I know you can't just believe me..

But seriously, this has happened A LOT in the past. A large amount of people (most of them town, usually) want to lynch Robz for antitown behavior day 1. I try to argue against it, fail. Day 2 we suspect the wrong people because mafia doesn't have to participate in lynching Robz as he just brings it upon himself. But the people who've played with him a lot should know to reconsider by now!

[Eevee]

From what I've seen, Robz doesn't have a meta.  In a sense.  It's always changing.

Now, something I'd like to note: in almost every single game I've played here, I've been seriously considered of being scum.  My first game (MXXI) I was mislynched for a flawless scum victory.  Another one (RMM7), I was scum and got lynched (although that one was one of the ones I was suspected the least).  In MXXII, I would have been lynched if I hadn't managed to bring IC status to myself.  And in MXXIV, people were starting to say they thought I was like I was in RMM7 but then got un-suspiciouned when I was on a scum wagon two times in a row.

Anyway, long story short: People seem to think I'm scum a lot.  Especially when I'm town.

That is actually a fair point.

Robz has been accused of just screwing around in his town games so that he could play scum more effectively. At times it seems he has very little interest in helping town, which can be frustrating. The crux of it I think is that he just doesn't care very much if he is suspected or not, even if he is lynched or not. He isn't afraid to try something new and fail miserably. His play is very inconsistent (basically the more the game progresses and more he gets into it, the better he starts to play). He is usually in so many games he just doesn't value the ones in day 1 where he is town that much.

[nkirbit]

I definitely think we do not want to lynch without mcmc, xeiron, and Ahoppy voting.  The more votes we have, the more info we will have to look back on tomorrow after we see the flip and NK.

That being said, hopefully they get on tonight so we can lynch or at the very least make serious progress towards a lynch.

[Eevee]

From what I've seen, Robz doesn't have a meta.  In a sense.  It's always changing.

Now, something I'd like to note: in almost every single game I've played here, I've been seriously considered of being scum.  My first game (MXXI) I was mislynched for a flawless scum victory.  Another one (RMM7), I was scum and got lynched (although that one was one of the ones I was suspected the least).  In MXXII, I would have been lynched if I hadn't managed to bring IC status to myself.  And in MXXIV, people were starting to say they thought I was like I was in RMM7 but then got un-suspiciouned when I was on a scum wagon two times in a row.

Anyway, long story short: People seem to think I'm scum a lot.  Especially when I'm town.

This makes me want to go back to mail-mi. Or try to find a new wagon, such as mcmc.

[yuma]

This makes me want to go back to mail-mi. Or try to find a new wagon, such as mcmc.

one hour from the soft deadline... and people were saying that they thought my move to sudgy was late...?

But really, we are one hour from soft deadline. Guys I take soft deadlines very seriously. I hope in one hour to have someone at l-1 with intent to vote announced... but maybe I am just being optimistic?

[sudgy]

As I said, I'm fine with lynching mail-mi or robz, and would prefer mail-mi (I'm on robz at the moment because it seems more likely to happen and we need a lynch soon).

[yuma]

mail-mi (1): Eevee
Robz (5): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit, ashersky, sudgy
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
sudgy (2): yuma, Robz888
ahoppy (1): robz

and at this point I think I need to go back to vote: robz. enough players have been online and have not voted sudgy

That is L-1 for Robz.

[nkirbit]

From what I've seen, Robz doesn't have a meta.  In a sense.  It's always changing.

Now, something I'd like to note: in almost every single game I've played here, I've been seriously considered of being scum.  My first game (MXXI) I was mislynched for a flawless scum victory.  Another one (RMM7), I was scum and got lynched (although that one was one of the ones I was suspected the least).  In MXXII, I would have been lynched if I hadn't managed to bring IC status to myself.  And in MXXIV, people were starting to say they thought I was like I was in RMM7 but then got un-suspiciouned when I was on a scum wagon two times in a row.

Anyway, long story short: People seem to think I'm scum a lot.  Especially when I'm town.

So half the time you've been lynched, it was correct?  Those aren't horrible odds.

[Eevee]

Vote: mail-mi

If sudgy, Robz and yuma joined me, it would be L-2. We'd need mcmc (your liopoil vote not so hot at the moment!) and someone from the wagon to make it happen. I think still doable.

Yuma, you've played with Robz a bunch. This isn't scum Robz. Scum Robz isn't this easy to nail day 1. You know that.

[shraeye]

Vote Count 1.11
{L-1} Robz (6): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit, ashersky, sudgy, yuma
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
sudgy (1): liopoil
AHoppy (1): Robz888
mail-mi (1): Eevee

Not voting: AHoppy, xeiron

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch

[liopoil]

yuma, eevee and I were on sudgy too. we had four votes... now eevee and you are gone.

I don't like the mail-mi lynch at all. He's gotten lynched like this before.

[liopoil]

nobody hammer robz. I agree with eevee to an extent about him.

[ashersky]

nobody hammer robz. I agree with eevee to an extent about him.

Somebody state intent to hammer Robz, please.

Also, Robz may want to claim at this point.

[liopoil]

I do however prefer a robz lynch over a mail-mi lynch, if it comes to it. I think we have the votes to lynch sudgy.

Ahoppy, xeiron, mcmc, robz, wanna vote? I know mcmc and robz are already voting, but ahoppy isn't getting lynched and mcmc, your vote has been on me for ages and nobody has joined you.

Don't claim until someone states intent to hammer robz.

[AHoppy]

So I kinda just skimmed, I haven't been able to get back to this for a while and a lot has been discussed.  I feel like I have not been participating much because I only want to participate if I'm going to have anything substantial to say, and with all the mud throwing that has been going around with very very little data, I haven't had anything I felt would be valuable to say.  So I haven't.  I think I'm going to go back to vote: Mai-mi since I don't see a better case against someone else.  I'm not sure i can vote robz, because I have no idea what to think about him.  His strange behavior comes off a little more towny to me, but really, I don't know how to read people yet, this being my first game.  And being D1...

[AHoppy]

although, I may be able to get behind the sudgy lynch, but I can also sympathize with him being busy and that would explain his lack of posts well enough to me.

[AHoppy]

I would also like to note that the two people who are currently also possible to lynch, mail-mi and sudgy, are both voting for robz.  If they are scum, I would bet robz is not.  I don't realy know if this has any bearing on things though...

[ashersky]

So I kinda just skimmed, I haven't been able to get back to this for a while and a lot has been discussed.  I feel like I have not been participating much because I only want to participate if I'm going to have anything substantial to say, and with all the mud throwing that has been going around with very very little data, I haven't had anything I felt would be valuable to say.  So I haven't.  I think I'm going to go back to vote: Mai-mi since I don't see a better case against someone else.  I'm not sure i can vote robz, because I have no idea what to think about him.  His strange behavior comes off a little more towny to me, but really, I don't know how to read people yet, this being my first game.  And being D1...

I know it's your first game, but I think you'll find that the bolded bit there is basically every D1 in every game.  There's not much "data" available in these games, especially when the set-ups are closed.  If I run a C9++ game again, you'll love the data/set-up/theory talk available in those types of open set-ups.  But in these, we're looking at behaviors and trying to glean something from them.

[nkirbit]

Ahoppy:  Figure out for sure if you would support a Robz lynch or not.  It's the immediate priority, in my opinion, but it's important that we know one way or the other rather than just "I don't know."

This is extremely weak to me.  If I was a town, and I had an opportunity to hammer, I'd damn well be doing absolutely everything I could to try and figure out if that person was scum or not.