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[Twistedarcher]

PPS, don't worry about mafia at all. Make sure your wife is ok. We'll be fine here.

Hope she gets better

[AHoppy]

I'm here, but I can't talk.  I have a stack of papers 4 inches high to grade before 7:30 am tomorrow, so I won't get to the Eevee reread tonight.

PPS: No worries, RL > Mafia.

[Eevee]

Well, just not having any striking towny moments is evidence for me. Also how aggressively you go against anyone who suspects you.

Now that you brought up GoT where I was scum, do you think I'm playing similarly here? I think my biggest leak as scum is being way too certain and strong-willed compared to my town self.

I mean, Robz's reasons for reading me correctly here nail it so well it's borderline worrisome.

But really, sadly I think the best input I'll be capable of today will hopefully be avoiding getting lynched. I'm just not nearly sure enough of who is scummy and who is towny to spend much effort building those cases. I do acknowledge my responsibility to town and will try my hardest to convince you I'm town.

[yuma]

Well, just not having any striking towny moments is evidence for me. Also how aggressively you go against anyone who suspects you.

So in other words... you can't tell me why I am not being townie nor can you tell me why I am being scummy.

Awesome. So your case is basically "I think yuma is scum he is aggressively trying to get me to explain why so I am going to keep he is scum more?"

Cause that is all I am getting out of you. Let me know if you have more to add until then... I guess we are done?

I always respond aggressively to cases on me that are bad (regardless of alignment) so that can't or at least I don't think it should be used as a point against me and I still maintain that I am not attacking anyone, just probing for clarity and answers... but we have had this discussion already this game.

[yuma]

Now that you brought up GoT where I was scum, do you think I'm playing similarly here? I think my biggest leak as scum is being way too certain and strong-willed compared to my town self.

Strong-willed is not how I would have described you in GoT. At all.

I think you are playing a similar game in that at least until the last little bit you were kinda off my radar and background (aside from TA continuing harping on about you) which is partially why I never really latched onto the idea of you being scum in GoT. I don't remember what you did in Toy Story at all as scum though that was a different game for many reasons.

[yuma]

This game is still going right?

PS here is the vote count:

Eevee (2): Twistedarcher, yuma
yuma (2): chairs, Eevee
pingpongsam (3): Robz888, faust, scott
faust (1): PPS

Not Voting (3): Jimmmmm, Ahoppy, Arch

[Archetype]

FWIW, I think Yuma would be an excellent cop target

AHoppy would still be better me-thinks.

Vote: Eevee.

Reasons for voting:
- Past reasons
- Twistedarcher's analysis
- Helps shed some light one AHoppy's alignment (Eevee being scum makes it more likely that AHoppy is scum)
- Better lynch than PPS or yuma

[Robz888]

Okay I fell a little bit behind, but I should be caught up now, although I didn't read as carefully as I should have. Eevee is not my favorite lynch, but has become far from my least favorite lynch.

I don't really like the idea of lynching faust, eve though I vehemently disagee with his thinking. Seems like his someone who always want to have "a plan", even a bad one. Remember his fake claim as town Day 1 in Dynasty Warriors 2? There was another thing with, him too.

I'm voting for PPS because I thought he was scummy in his fight with Jimm, NOT because I agee with faust's thinking. I don't know if I still feel that way about PPS. I'm open to a better lynch. That better lynch is NOT faust, and I don't think it's Archetype (for reasons yuma covered).

[Eevee]

Robz, if you don't oppose my lynch, I suspect no one will and it'll happen.

Of course it might still happen if you oppose it, but you know, think extra hard I guess. Seems I'm incapable of defending myself, so a white knight would be nice.

[faust]

I am not going to go around telling people who to target, but I think a far, far better way to do this, instead of lynching PPS, is to have him be a potential cop target tonight.

1. if he is targeted we learned he is town and that TA is town 100% at the same time.
2. if he is NKed... yes we lose that cop data (from whoever copped him), but we learn that TA is town 100% of the time and we don't lose a cop from a different night as scum targeted PPS and not another cop.
3. if he is scum, he is outed and we can then decide what to do with TA... He is probably still town, but at least we can think about it.

Now that is a decent idea, but at the moment, we are two Cops down. It's easily possible that we don't get another investigation result. And if we don't, and take TA/pps to some LyLo situation because we think they might still get investigated, what then?

If you are so suspicious of PPS's claim that he is a cop... then why are you so sure that we are two cops down? If you think PPS is scum, then we should only be one cop down.

this post to me is raising a giant red flag! It seems to me that cognitively you believe PPS's claim, but that you want to lynch him anyways (because you want that mislynch w/o responsibility because you are just "doing it for information for TA")

I sitll need to look you over, but you might have just jumped to the top of my suspicions with this post despite TA's town read on you.

And again, I am not saying give TA and PPS a pass. But rather lynch them if you think they are scummy. I don't think they are scummy and won't lynch them just for info.

So yes, this was an unfortunate statement...

That said, some of what you say is making sense, and I think that maybe we can do this without lynching pps. I guess I just have too little trust in my reads and like to have a "safe option", especially when the alternative is potentially mislynching a PR.

So I'm open to vote elsewhere, but - none of the other wagons seems good. I don't think the case on Eevee is anywhere near compelling. yuma has risen in townieness over the past-claim time. And me, well, I'm town.

So I'm open to vote AHoppy or Archetype, or maybe Robz (though I'm less sure about him), but there doesn't seem to be enough support for any of those. So while I don't find pps super scummy, I definitely think he's scummier than the rest of my options.

[yuma]

So I'm open to vote AHoppy or Archetype, or maybe Robz (though I'm less sure about him), but there doesn't seem to be enough support for any of those. So while I don't find pps super scummy, I definitely think he's scummier than the rest of my options.

If that is the case then I don't really have an issue with your vote. I mean I disagree with the scummy interpretation, but sometimes people read others differently.

I guess my issue is that it never really appeared that you had a scumread on PPS until after he claimed. So now it kinda looks like you went from null/town read on him before to let's lynch him for info once he claimed and are now suggesting you have a scum read (even if it isn't super) once people started to say that you should only be voting for him if you have a scum read....

[faust]

So I'm open to vote AHoppy or Archetype, or maybe Robz (though I'm less sure about him), but there doesn't seem to be enough support for any of those. So while I don't find pps super scummy, I definitely think he's scummier than the rest of my options.

If that is the case then I don't really have an issue with your vote. I mean I disagree with the scummy interpretation, but sometimes people read others differently.

I guess my issue is that it never really appeared that you had a scumread on PPS until after he claimed. So now it kinda looks like you went from null/town read on him before to let's lynch him for info once he claimed and are now suggesting you have a scum read (even if it isn't super) once people started to say that you should only be voting for him if you have a scum read....

I understand, and what I initially did was probably an overreaction. I had a null/slight town read on him before the claim. Then, I just thought lynching him might be good because we get info, that might not have been completely thought through. But ultimately, I arrive at a slightly scummier read on pps: the claim itself is scummy, and I think people should realize that. It is, after all, a claim at L-2. These should always be taken with a grain of salt. I don't like how everyone goes "oh, so TA is a quasi-IC, and pps probably town".

[yuma]

the claim itself is scummy, and I think people should realize that. It is, after all, a claim at L-2. These should always be taken with a grain of salt. I don't like how everyone goes "oh, so TA is a quasi-IC, and pps probably town".

I agree that the claim makes him scummier, but for me it takes it from a strong town read to a medium town read. But I don't necessarily find the timing of the claim to be scummy, but rather that just in and of itself a cop claim is either going to come from a cop or scum (it won't come from a doc). So anyone who makes a claim thereby automatically becomes a little more likely to be scum (basically what in my head was a 1/3 chance becomes a 1/2... those aren't exact odds, just showing the line of thought).

and I am not saying TA is quasi-IC therefor PPS is probably town. Rather I am saying I think PPS is town, regardless of his claim, therefore I think TA is quasi-IC and we shouldn't lynch PPS just to prove it.

[pingpongsam]

Whether it is believed or not; I didn't really even know where my wagon stood when I claimed. I claimed at the behest of faust because he had indicated that at that point in the game there must not have been any results or else we would have seen them already. That my results were on TA and TA was floundering  was additional motivation.

[Twistedarcher]

I was floundering? THat's news to me

[Twistedarcher]

How was I floundering, PPS? I had 1 vote on me (Yuma's). What about my play made you feel that you needed to step in and defend me?

[Twistedarcher]

I don't think PPS and Eevee can both be scum, it doesn't make sense for PPS to fakeclaim to give credence to a case on his partner. Not particularly relevant, but worth noting for sure.

[yuma]

Realized I never did my Ahoppy reread:

- pretty early on has the huge reads list. I still tend to find those sort of posts scummy... (even though I think they are generally good). His isn't the scummiest I have seen. He takes some stances, but mostly I feel it was too early to try and forumulate those sort of opinions... but maybe that is just more of a stylistic preference.
- easy vote on Robz when he isn't posting, removes it when he does
- moves to the easy chairs vote for basically the same reason
- in the same post he defends Eevee, finds TA scummy for it and then says he doesn't want to lynch TA due to the top posting thing... but instead votes a basically null read in chairs.
- reacts well to what is really just an OMGUS vote from chairs.
- he explains some of his dislike of TA's reads as being that he isn't as familiar with people's metas and so doesn't trust them as much... this part resonates with me a bit, but I don't think it explains why he thought TA might be setting up an "easy mislynch" with it
- missed out on the end of day until the very end; then he had two posts that made me suspicious and then didn't in succession. The first made it look like he needed to find excuses and reasons for voting Teproc, but really if he was town he should know that he was a better lynch than himself (because there was a chance he was mafia at the least) but the second didn't give that vibe as he didn't give reasons, he just basically said "Teproc is better than me" so that isn't town credit, it just negates the first....

Day2:
- has another large post of reads (this time in response to PPS)
- ends up voting for PPS. I dont' really like this vote that much (not just because of my townread on him), but rather how he got there... basically he is suspicious of PPS because PPS de-escalated the argument and said "fine, I'll wait for your case" which at that point was all PPS could do as Jimmmm obviously wasn't in a hurry to get it out there. This looks like another "easy" vote to me
- ends up unvoting PPS before the claim he says.

Summary: So ultimately I am not a huge fan of the Ahoppy lynch. He has been a little bit on the "easy" side of voting, but I haven't seen a lot of scummy behavior from him. He isn't a "lurker" in the conventional sense and has lots of content. I don't buy into the "we need to lynch Ahoppy" for information from day1 because by the time we get into a place where we could use it the more important info is going to be from day2 which won't be as useful if we lynch day2 for information... man that was a confusing sentence... basically what is the point? Lynch to hit scum, not to get info. Info is always going to come with a lynch regardless of who we lynch, so let's try to hit scum and get the info as a side benefit. I don't think Ahoppy is more likely to flip scum at this point than a number of other players.

[pingpongsam]

I interpreted the repeated cries for an Eevee lynch as floundering since you were becoming visibly frustrated with the lack of response. Maybe it was a poor choice of words. I meant it in the sense of you were making motion to no real effect. While I never saw much to your case on Eevee I felt it deserved some attention because I knew you to be Town and thus revealing the results at least gave it the attention a known Townie deserves.

I didn't mean foundering as in you were in any risk of being lynched or under suspicion.

[Twistedarcher]

Why would you want to lend more credence to a case you didn't agree with?

[pingpongsam]

The intent wasn't to give credence to the case but to the person bringing the case.

I think the case itself deserved more attention. Just because I don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Also, I am rather distracted with IRL circumstances so it is very possible I can't see it when it is there. I already had the result and I then I had faust indicating that the result was due to be revealed. That TA happened to be striving hard on something that was being largely ignored was entirely secondary to delivering the claim but I stated as such in full disclosure of my motives.

[yuma]

So deadline is in like 28 hours...

[yuma]

Prod request for: Jimmmm and chairs

[Twistedarcher]

vote count please

Also sudgy I sent you a pm I need answered...don't know if you saw it

[Jimmmmm]

Prod request for: Jimmmm and chairs

Sorry. Literally catching up as we speak.