* Which is more useful - the on-play effect, or the reaction?
* Under what instances would you not want a Horse Traders?
* How does it compare to Wine Merchant?
* Why are these Traders at a Dutch angle?
* Which is more useful - the on-play effect, or the reaction?I guess I get this most of the time for the +Buy or to hit 4$-5$ even if my deck is full of junk, so I think the on-play effect is more useful.
* Under what instances would you not want a Horse Traders?As said before, sometimes all you need is +Buy and there can very well be better sources of +Buy available that don't have you discard or are non terminal.
* How does it compare to Wine Merchant?I haven't played with Adventures yet and can't really tell. It seems like HT is best to hit 5$ and WM is good for hitting higher price points like 6-8$ but more expensive.
* Why are these Traders at a Dutch angle?I've never heard about that, maybe you want to ask Stef or SCSN ;)?
* Why are these Traders at a Dutch angle?I've never heard about that, maybe you want to ask Stef or SCSN ;)?
I have a hard time thinking of cases where I do not want to open horse traders (4/3) actually, I think it's just when there is something better to do with $4, like Tournament, Conspirator chain, Scrying Pool / Familiar or when I don't want to have an early $5.Also trashing costing 4$ comes to mind, like Spice Merchant or Doctor (which you usually don't want to buy without overpay on the opening).
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I usually don't like Horse traders after the opening though.
The reaction is a clear winner against discard attacks and more like a consolation against other attacks.
Even if you get CEEEHt on your third or fourth turn, that means that you have six Coppers you haven't drawn yet. Unless you bought something that produces neither coin nor cards as your other buy and draw it with four Coppers, you should still hit $5.
Nothing to do about drawing Horse Traders on Turn 5, though.
* Which is more useful - the on-play effect, or the reaction?
Quote* How does it compare to Wine Merchant?Horse Traders has much better art.
Is it a good card for treasure less decks? If you play it as your last action you get the goodies without discarding anything or only discarding victory cards. This also opens up the possibility of Throning or KCing which would otherwise be difficult because of the need to discard either four or six cards. I did play such a game once and my last action each turn was a King's Courted Horse Traders.
It is also useful for gaining Grand Markets as you can remove Coppers from your hand without reducing the amount you have to spend.
Anyway, HT gets much better in the presence of Attacks. Otherwise I think it's only worth considering for a $5 slingshot or if it's the only buy.
It's tempting to think that Horse Traders is better against Discarders because it nullifies the attack, but it's really just a reset; you still get -2 cards from the HT itself.
Down to 4: 6 cards
Non-discard attack: 6 cards
Down to 4: 6 cards
Non-discard attack: 6 cards
But you still get attacked by the non-discard Attack. You don't get attacked by Urchin or Minion.
Right. Down to 4 is best, duh! You got an extra card, and didn't suffer at all from the attack. Why did your opponent go for these cards with HT on the board?
Let's get constructive. Do you think HT is generally worth buying against, say, Witch?
Let's get constructive. Do you think HT is generally worth buying against, say, Witch?
Pillage- probably not!
Admittedly, you don't buy Urchin for Urchin.
:-[ Dammit, all I was trying to say was that HT is good against Junkers too.
Is it just me, or is Horse Traders a relatively-uninteresting card?
Is it just me, or is Horse Traders a relatively-uninteresting card?
No not at all. You can do a lot of different things with horse traders and it is quite clever in the way that it defends against so many different attacks. Horse traders can suit almost every sort of deck and it can certainly be very powerful when you can play a four cost card for +3 coins and a buy, particularly when discarding two cards is no obstacle or even an advantage. The card is not new though and some specific strategies, such as duke/horse traders, have been discussed at length in other threads.
it defends against so many different attacks
- It's a good counter to discarding attacks
specific strategies, such as duke/horse traders, have been discussed
- If you draw some junk, that junk is not as useless as it normally is because it's something to discard with Ht
Is it just me, or is Horse Traders a relatively-uninteresting card? It seems like most of the discussion above revolves around
- It's a good counter to discarding attacks
- It's good for hitting $5 on T3/4
- If you draw some junk, that junk is not as useless as it normally is because it's something to discard with Ht
- Its +buy is nice
But these things are basically pretty obvious, and we generally agree on them. This is unlike recent CotW's, such as P-Stone, Smugglers, Steward, etc. Those cards are much more situational, harder to master, easier to screw up, and usually require more in-game decisions.
Is it just me, or is Horse Traders a relatively-uninteresting card?
... Double Tac deck with Hamlet, Menagerie, and Horse Traders. I was playing with my friend who was new to the game and it was just plain silly.
... Double Tac deck with Hamlet, Menagerie, and Horse Traders. I was playing with my friend who was new to the game and it was just plain silly.
Did he become hooked? Sounds more like a deterrent to a beginner to me.
The best thing about HT is, that it's reaction part actually helps it's action part a lot:
HT+Silver+xyz >= $5,
HT+Gold+xyz >= $6
Getting an extra card raises the odds of pairing Silver + HT or Gold+ HT.
I love this card, but don't forget: it's terminal. So the combos with Minion and/or Menagerie will absolutely require an investment in villages. The combos with Watchtower and Library are probably not worth it, unless there's something like Fishing Village or Squire/Hamlet (with Hamlet/Horse Traders, watch out for overdiscarding).