Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[silverspawn]

I don't see how it will make more people reach the bottom half.

Because it makes the first three players go red lift, blue lift, white lift, as supposed to white lift, white lift, white lift.

[faust]

I don't see how it will make more people reach the bottom half.

Because it makes the first three players go red lift, blue lift, white lift, as supposed to white lift, white lift, white lift.

So what? Someone else will go red lift, blue lift instead...

[theorel]

I think you're both overestimating how difficult it is to get to the lower decks.  If everyone just randomly decided to use the central lift in the first round 4 players/14 would make it.
If at least a few players try to go red, or grab a Tracker first (or wiggle the mouse), then easily half of the players can reach lower decks.  I think people have enough different ideas of what's good that a FFA results in ~8 players reaching lower decks.

I think suggesting the first three players go Red/Blue/White, and when to use their lift results in ~9 players reaching lower decks.  Because it's probably a good idea for someone to try to grab a cop shot during phase 3, someone could grab the commuter shot, someone could grab tracker phase-3 as well.

I don't disagree with suggesting actions for first 3 players, I think it's a mistake to depend on it.
Refilling energy with first 3 players is good because we don't really want to double-up on it excessively (like wiggling the mouse).  But then if it fails, a bunch of our PR-shots fail...and at 50% chance of failure, that's more risk than I'm comfortable with.  So, we should try to double-up on it.  Thinking more about it, we should double-up in central, and maybe Red, but not Blue.  And I'll just trust that someone in a FFA will take responsibility for it.  Same as some people should go grab cop shots, and some people should get trackers, and some people should get printouts.  Some people probably lack A's some lack B's, some will want to be lower-deck, some will prefer to have a PR-shot.  Some people will try to get printouts but end up getting tracker shots.  I think it all works out in the wash.

[faust]

Think about WTM for a minute. It either blocks UR (upper red) or UB.

If it blocks UB it means cop results are guaranteed sane.
If it blocks UR it means we can't access cop results.

If WTM is used twice and we have full access on two days, it means a player might go there twice and get an uncertain cop result both times, giving us 2 uncertain cop results. If WTM is not used it means the equivalent play is to get one certain cop result plus the next best action available. So two uncertain cop results are supposed to be more valuable than 1 certain result plus another action? No, come on. Even if you don't believe in anything useful coming out of WW, this is still not worth it.

The bottleneck for what we can do in the ship is turns and cards. Limiting number of rooms, a resource which is not the bottleneck, in exchange for better rooms, is a good thing.

I absolutely think two uncertain Cop results are more valuable than one certain result + X, especially considering that an uncertain result is made certain by checking the other result...

By limiting the number of rooms, you are increasing the number of turns it takes for a player to get somewhere useful. Turns, as you yourself pointed out, are a bottleneck.

[theorel]

Think about WTM for a minute. It either blocks UR (upper red) or UB.

If it blocks UB it means cop results are guaranteed sane.
If it blocks UR it means we can't access cop results.

If WTM is used twice and we have full access on two days, it means a player might go there twice and get an uncertain cop result both times, giving us 2 uncertain cop results. If WTM is not used it means the equivalent play is to get one certain cop result plus the next best action available. So two uncertain cop results are supposed to be more valuable than 1 certain result plus another action? No, come on. Even if you don't believe in anything useful coming out of WW, this is still not worth it.

The bottleneck for what we can do in the ship is turns and cards. Limiting number of rooms, a resource which is not the bottleneck, in exchange for better rooms, is a good thing.

I absolutely think two uncertain Cop results are more valuable than one certain result + X, especially considering that an uncertain result is made certain by checking the other result...

By limiting the number of rooms, you are increasing the number of turns it takes for a player to get somewhere useful. Turns, as you yourself pointed out, are a bottleneck.

This

[theorel]

If we could guarantee blocking Blue, then I'd be for not wiggling the mouse.  But we can't, so I'd rather have the available actions.

[2.71828.....]

Hm. I have been reading all the discussion but too busy to get thoughts in. I still think people should do whatever they think ous best tonight. I love empassioned arguments about why wiggling is good or bad, but in the end.... if scum know with certainty that we are wiggling, they will manipulate their night actions based on that. If scum know we are not wiggling, same thing. The unknown is where scum get caught or are forced to do an action that doesn't especially hurt town

[faust]

Good. So what are everyone's scumreads?

[LaLight]

Good. So what are everyone's scumreads?

I caught up a little but the theory talk is very hard to consume in a limited time. There is like 4 people talking (faust/theorel/silver/skumpy) and others are super silent. let's vote: Haddock

[silverspawn]

if we didn't wiggle scum would wiggle because it's good for them...

[silverspawn]

vote: haddock

[faust]

Why Haddock?

[silverspawn]

because wagons!

[Awaclus]

Why Haddock?

Why not?

[faust]

because wagons!

But iguana is the better wagon!

[LaLight]

because wagons!

But iguana is the better wagon!

why?

[faust]

because wagons!

But iguana is the better wagon!

why?

Why not?

Err.. well seriously though. I expect town!iguana to be more engaged in theory stuff here and generally to be more excited. His opening post:

I sorta expected silver to have a plan already since he was really hardcore before the game started.

implies that he thought about how specific players will approach the game, this is a scum trait.

[gkrieg13]

I think Faust is townie, and I don’t wish to participate in theory talk myself. It seems like you guys have that covered. Going to do some actual scum hunting the next time I open this thread and am at a computer.

[silverspawn]

good case vote: ii

[iguanaiguana]

Unfortunately I am having a really hard time getting interested in this game. @Faust can you give an example of me being interested in theory talk? The narrative side of mafia has always been what appeals to me, so the only exciting post in this thread was Skumpy's to me.

[faust]

Unfortunately I am having a really hard time getting interested in this game. @Faust can you give an example of me being interested in theory talk? The narrative side of mafia has always been what appeals to me, so the only exciting post in this thread was Skumpy's to me.

I just think you are generally more excitable as town, or town-like.

[CheesyJelly]

Unfortunately I am having a really hard time getting interested in this game. @Faust can you give an example of me being interested in theory talk? The narrative side of mafia has always been what appeals to me, so the only exciting post in this thread was Skumpy's to me.

PLOT A COURSE!  SHIELDS TO MAXIMUM!  And then somebody bring the head of one of those no-good science deniers! *shakes fist*

[EFHW]

I still like silver's idea of spreading out the goals randomly, or maybe destinations. So we don't all go for the cop, or none of us go because we are sure everyone else is going. 6 rooms, 6-sided die.

[Skumpy]

First player goes Red – Lift – B
Second player goes Blue – Lift – B
Thid player goes Lift – A – B
... if they can.

Everything else is up to each player's discretion, but do keep the restriction in mind. If p2 uses the blue lift in the second round, then p3 to 5 can't, etc. I think tomorrow we should do more elaborate plans with randomized numbers, but not yet. They become better if more players are at the bottom part.

Problem with this is that 1st and 2nd are pulling from central before it has a chance to be replenished, so I'd say third should go Lift-B-A. Other than that, I like it.

[silverspawn]

oh, yes. Actually, I think we should move just swap lines 2 and 3 to have the white pool replenish in between the others.