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[mcmcsalot]

Well I'll just say that Big G is the consensus top pick for scum so far.

Do you see how what you are doing is giving you as well as any other scum player almost
A free reason to vote for gkrieg. I get how you think we need to narrow the lynch pool but the way you are doing it is harming our ability to spin today's lynch into a successful scum hunting tool tomorrow. This is the same reason we don't like lynching lurkers, we have done it enough now that we know not only is it usually a random flip, it also makes the next day super tough because if the lurker flips town it's like we have one extended d1.

[faust]

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

[mcmcsalot]

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

Explain please?

EFHW voted robz pre claim explaination. Post explaination EFHW said they agrees with the explaination and understood but wasn't going to unvote. Then EFHW voted gkrieg with no reference to the robz vote. Just seems really weird, like why not unvote before?

[Joseph2302]

I have only skimmed along this game, have little to no recollection of anything exciting.  Any highlights for me?

I got put on L-1 early and had to claim my role- I'm UB.
Then there was an L-1 wagon on Robz, and he claimed VT.

PPE: 1

[faust]

Faust - slighty scummy because I don't feel super towny toward Faust like I almost always do.*

It's fun to factcheck this sort of statement, especially since I don't remember the last time I play with mcmc.

It was M60.

M60 (faust town/mcmc town):
D1:

I like Vote: faust

he just isn't giving me his normal towny vibes.

I will also vote: faust for all reasons prior stated. Doesn't seem to be doing anything pro town either

D2:

Scum: Andrew, faust
[...]

I'm actually fairly confident in this

M46 (mcmc town, faust town): mcmcsalot is on my D2 mislynch wagon

M42 (mcmc town, faust scum): mcmc pushes for my lynch.

M31 (mcmc town, faust scum): mcmc gets lynch D1.

M30 (mcmc scum, faust town)

... and these are all game we played together (minus two in which I was IC). Not a single one in which mcmc thought I was town.

[faust]

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

Explain please?

EFHW voted robz pre claim explaination. Post explaination EFHW said they agrees with the explaination and understood but wasn't going to unvote. Then EFHW voted gkrieg with no reference to the robz vote. Just seems really weird, like why not unvote before?

Explain why it's scummy first. Weird != scummy.

[faust]

Moving mcmc in my lynch pool based on lying to fabricate a read on me.

[mcmcsalot]

Moving mcmc in my lynch pool based on lying to fabricate a read on me.

I think lying is a bit harsh. I also think you are misconstrueing things a bit.

If we played 7 games together, 6 times I was town, and 2 of those times you were a confirmed town player I think it's likely that's the reason I remember you as usually being towny. You also speak(type) clearly and I like you so it a bit of an eevee situation where when I don't find him towny I find him scummy, oh and did I mention it was slightly...

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

 really don't think very highly of mcmc's reasoning on anything he is saying. He is my top scum read. Big G is also a decent lynch. This day has gone from decent to not very gods quickly. My my. I feel like everyone here has done something scummy this game and we should be looking at who is trying to Disrail our town efforts to find scum instead of just throwing out everyone's name and not getting anywhere. There fore Vote: mcmc

[mcmcsalot]

really don't think very highly of mcmc's reasoning on anything he is saying. He is my top scum read. Big G is also a decent lynch. This day has gone from decent to not very gods quickly. My my. I feel like everyone here has done something scummy this game and we should be looking at who is trying to Disrail our town efforts to find scum instead of just throwing out everyone's name and not getting anywhere. There fore Vote: mcmc

Well I'll just say that Big G is the consensus top pick for scum so far.

Do you see how what you are doing is giving you as well as any other scum player almost
A free reason to vote for gkrieg. I get how you think we need to narrow the lynch pool but the way you are doing it is harming our ability to spin today's lynch into a successful scum hunting tool tomorrow. This is the same reason we don't like lynching lurkers, we have done it enough now that we know not only is it usually a random flip, it also makes the next day super tough because if the lurker flips town it's like we have one extended d1.

Do you disagree with what I'm saying above? If so please explain.

[Robz888]

Ashersky! Awesome.

That's some pretty good fact-checking there, faust.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

really don't think very highly of mcmc's reasoning on anything he is saying. He is my top scum read. Big G is also a decent lynch. This day has gone from decent to not very gods quickly. My my. I feel like everyone here has done something scummy this game and we should be looking at who is trying to Disrail our town efforts to find scum instead of just throwing out everyone's name and not getting anywhere. There fore Vote: mcmc

He has also come into the game after lurking for so long and is all of a sudden causing way more chaos when we should be reducing the chaos so we can come to a lynch conclusion. This is just poor town play or scum play so I say we lynch mcmc.

really don't think very highly of mcmc's reasoning on anything he is saying. He is my top scum read. Big G is also a decent lynch. This day has gone from decent to not very gods quickly. My my. I feel like everyone here has done something scummy this game and we should be looking at who is trying to Disrail our town efforts to find scum instead of just throwing out everyone's name and not getting anywhere. There fore Vote: mcmc

Well I'll just say that Big G is the consensus top pick for scum so far.

Do you see how what you are doing is giving you as well as any other scum player almost
A free reason to vote for gkrieg. I get how you think we need to narrow the lynch pool but the way you are doing it is harming our ability to spin today's lynch into a successful scum hunting tool tomorrow. This is the same reason we don't like lynching lurkers, we have done it enough now that we know not only is it usually a random flip, it also makes the next day super tough because if the lurker flips town it's like we have one extended d1.

Do you disagree with what I'm saying above? If so please explain.

That may be true but we need to have a consensus effort to put forth cases and I would think that people would look at the cases and decide based off of them not prior judgements.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Faust - slighty scummy because I don't feel super towny toward Faust like I almost always do.*

It's fun to factcheck this sort of statement, especially since I don't remember the last time I play with mcmc.

I am confused, these games you are referencing are from 2015 and beyond.

[faust]

Faust - slighty scummy because I don't feel super towny toward Faust like I almost always do.*

It's fun to factcheck this sort of statement, especially since I don't remember the last time I play with mcmc.

I am confused, these games you are referencing are from 2015 and beyond.

Well, mcmc isn't a very frequent player, so it was kind of impossible to get more recent stats.

[faust]

That's some pretty good fact-checking there, faust.

Thanks!

Just imagine mcmc's statement had actually turned out to be correct though. That would have been disappointing.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Faust - slighty scummy because I don't feel super towny toward Faust like I almost always do.*

It's fun to factcheck this sort of statement, especially since I don't remember the last time I play with mcmc.

I am confused, these games you are referencing are from 2015 and beyond.

Well, mcmc isn't a very frequent player, so it was kind of impossible to get more recent stats.

Oh. That makes sense. I was confused why you weren't using more recent data sets. Seemed like you were cherry picking.

However, that makes your point somewhat less compelling as even if mcmc's statement wasn't truthful I would think that would probably have more to do with memory being faulty over time.

[faust]

Moving mcmc in my lynch pool based on lying to fabricate a read on me.

I think lying is a bit harsh. I also think you are misconstrueing things a bit.

If we played 7 games together, 6 times I was town, and 2 of those times you were a confirmed town player I think it's likely that's the reason I remember you as usually being towny. You also speak(type) clearly and I like you so it a bit of an eevee situation where when I don't find him towny I find him scummy, oh and did I mention it was slightly...

Well, lying is harsh, yes. And I do not actually think that you consciously misportrayed the way you read me in prior games. I just wanted to see how you'd react to this accusation.

Ultimately this is about cliché. There is this cliché going around that I am super towny as town. This originates from a sequence of games back in 2015 when I caught scum on D1 in like 3 games in a row or something. Since then, this is an ongoing cliché, even if it is completely inaccurate by now. If you look at my most recent town game (RMM39) and my most recent scum game (NM9), you'll see that as scum I went basically without any suspicion until LyLo while as town I had to claim D1 to prevent my lynch.

So how does this matter? It matters because cliché reads are scum tells. Scum will use clichés to fabricate reads because it's harder for them to really dive into the scumhunting. An example of this are also the EFHW votes (keeping someone at L-1 is scummy).

I also find it curious that you would mention that the scum read you have on me is only slightly, because I fail to see how this matters and it looks like buddying to me.

That said I am glad that you enjoy playing with me I am always worried that my style might sometimes be too aggressive.

[mcmcsalot]

@faust (because quoting would be huge)

That actually makes a lot of sense as to why it would worry you the amount it did. To be more specific out of the players in this game you type very well thought out fully coherent posts which makes it easier to follow your thought process. Because of that I expect to have a town read on you early on and when I found myself null on you I decided that made you slightly scummy.

I mentioned the scum read on you was only slightly because it was in the middle of a reads post on everyone and I wanted to specify there was a decent gap between jake/Awc/gkrieg/EFHW and you and then a much much smaller gap between you and rr/idp(ash) so not buddying, just clarifying.

[faust]

Now let's take a look at gkrieg.

There is some fluff in the beginning. I forgot this:

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

It's not alignment-indicative, but I really don't get it.

He townreads Joseph. Well someone (mcmc?) said defending Joseph there is kind of scummy and I agree.

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

This is also a bit of a clichéd reasoning.

He's also interacting with Jake a fair bit, coaching and such, which is a cheap way of getting activity up.

vote: faust

Interesting. Don't remember if this was explained, but I guess I'll see.

Jumping on the Robz wagon is kind of scummy, but then I think scum!gkrieg might shy away from being like 4th or 5th on a wagon because that are dangerous places to be in. I don't recall how gkrieg plays scum right now, so I can't really tell.

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

This is so... I would be interested in why gkrieg felt the need to share that information. And thinking scum!Robz would repeat such an obvious pattern after only 2 or 3 games? I'm not sure I buy that gkrieg would think that. Plus it ignores the new information Robz shared. So all in all, pretty scummy post.

Adding space -- vote: gkrieg.

Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one.

I joked about this before, but I really think that the "honestly" can be a subconscious scumtell. Like scum!gkrieg thinking "now I can post something that is actually true!"

I think when I'm very involved in a game it is much easier to read me though.

I don't like this bit very much because it sounds like trying to get a D1 pass through the promise of more activity in the future.

Here is another post that I'd like to look at in more detail:

I rarely write in my personal QTs.  I was just making a note that Robz was acting the same way he did in M89 and that I thought he was scum.

Notably, gkrieg's language already softened down here; earlier he said this "confirmed" Robz as scum.

I don't think that Awaclus really looked like he was claiming to be UB, and I was surprised that Robz kept pushing Joseph after the claim.

This is a nice little rhethoric trick. I also did not think Awaclus looked like claiming UB. But that doesn't really matter, does it? The question is, is it conceivable that Robz thought so? And that is very much the case I believe.

It also comes from a scum mindset to have someone not be counterclaimed, and still push them toward a lynch.  Especially when it is the universal backup, which isn't super useful in this game.

This is also a sort of cliché read.

I do however think that this top 3 stuff is not really all that helpful.  It gives scum a lot of information, and it is also easy for them to hide their partners.  I think more than anything, it just wasn't thoroughly thought through.

I don't really get why people would think Jake's proposal is so problematic. It gets people to state some reads, which is generally a good thing. BUt I guess this is not alignment-indicative.

So there is lots of stuff I don't like. The only thing that worries me a bit is that I did not find a towny-sounding post. That's usually a sign of confirmation bias. So I'd like other people to weigh in on this.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So there is lots of stuff I don't like. The only thing that worries me a bit is that I did not find a towny-sounding post. That's usually a sign of confirmation bias. So I'd like other people to weigh in on this.

I found his posts about what he wrote in his quicktopic and his referencing the previous game to be something town would do. Obviously you feel differently about it. But I feel like that is the sort of above and beyond sort of thinking that I would expect a veteran town player to do compared to a mafia that was just trying to survive and get by wouldn't be able to attain.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Mcmc your the only one here who is scum reading me and I think it's because you haven't played with me before. I think if you had played with me before you would understand that your case on me is not that scummy.

[Robz888]

Faust, that's a good case on gkrieg. It's also tempered with enough reasonable doubt that I'm getting a really strong town read on you, so good job. That's almost of more value than the case itself.

I should probably look back at gkrieg. I don't think it's that scummy of him to suspect/vote me before I laid out the reasoning for my Joseph skepticism. And I have noticed that gkrieg tends to always read me as scum.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

There is something potentially interesting going on here:

RoadRunner seems to be overly focused on Jake. I noticed as I read the last few pages and saw him responding to Jake a lot and remember that RoadRunner has done that a lot to Jake.

So I just went through all of RoadRunner's posts. He has a little more than 40 since the start of the game.

These are ones where he is responding to Jake or talking about Jake: 60, 139, 164, 166, 194, 197, 214, 240, 270, 288, 302, 401, 408, 412, 524, 539, 542, 544, 551, 571.

That is 20 posts out of about 40. Just less than half of all of his posts. Now some of these talk about more than just Jake or are short posts, like "What?"

But I feel like RoadRunner has been spending an inordinate amount of time focusing on Jake who, if you'll excuse me doesn't feel like a player at this junction that deserves a whole lot of focus like Robz or Joseph might have received. There are 12 other players in this game. Evenly distributed those posts should have been more in the 3-4 range. Maybe 10-12 range for outliers.

What do other people think? Is it crazy to think they might be partners?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

There is something potentially interesting going on here:

RoadRunner seems to be overly focused on Jake. I noticed as I read the last few pages and saw him responding to Jake a lot and remember that RoadRunner has done that a lot to Jake.

So I just went through all of RoadRunner's posts. He has a little more than 40 since the start of the game.

These are ones where he is responding to Jake or talking about Jake: 60, 139, 164, 166, 194, 197, 214, 240, 270, 288, 302, 401, 408, 412, 524, 539, 542, 544, 551, 571.

That is 20 posts out of about 40. Just less than half of all of his posts. Now some of these talk about more than just Jake or are short posts, like "What?"

But I feel like RoadRunner has been spending an inordinate amount of time focusing on Jake who, if you'll excuse me doesn't feel like a player at this junction that deserves a whole lot of focus like Robz or Joseph might have received. There are 12 other players in this game. Evenly distributed those posts should have been more in the 3-4 range. Maybe 10-12 range for outliers.

What do other people think? Is it crazy to think they might be partners?

Me and RR are really good irl friends so we argue a lot just look at M88,M87,M89 and we argue much more in those games but those posts have been actually discussing the game.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

There is something potentially interesting going on here:

RoadRunner seems to be overly focused on Jake. I noticed as I read the last few pages and saw him responding to Jake a lot and remember that RoadRunner has done that a lot to Jake.

So I just went through all of RoadRunner's posts. He has a little more than 40 since the start of the game.

These are ones where he is responding to Jake or talking about Jake: 60, 139, 164, 166, 194, 197, 214, 240, 270, 288, 302, 401, 408, 412, 524, 539, 542, 544, 551, 571.

That is 20 posts out of about 40. Just less than half of all of his posts. Now some of these talk about more than just Jake or are short posts, like "What?"

But I feel like RoadRunner has been spending an inordinate amount of time focusing on Jake who, if you'll excuse me doesn't feel like a player at this junction that deserves a whole lot of focus like Robz or Joseph might have received. There are 12 other players in this game. Evenly distributed those posts should have been more in the 3-4 range. Maybe 10-12 range for outliers.

What do other people think? Is it crazy to think they might be partners?

Me and RR are really good irl friends so we argue a lot just look at M88,M87,M89 and we argue much more in those games but those posts have been actually discussing the game.

And 20 is not that much.