Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: yuma on August 15, 2012, 09:10:54 am
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Welcome to Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Vaccarino
There are no restrictions to who can sign up at this point...
Players Signed up:
1. ashersky (Doctor)
2. Jorbles lynched day 4 Mafia Goon
3. Cuzz
4. GeoLib night killed night 2 vanilla townie
5. Robz888 lynched day 1 vanilla townie
6. O night killed night 1 vanilla townie
7. Captain_Frisk lynched day 3 Mafia Rolecop
8. Eevee (Jailkeeper)
9. Morgrim7Voltaire
Vote Counts:
Day 1: 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg92229#msg92229) 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg92719#msg92719) 3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg92944#msg92944) 4 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg93154#msg93154) 5 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg93474#msg93474) 6 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg94153#msg94153) 7 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg94672#msg94672) 8 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg95204#msg95204) 9 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg95701#msg95701) Day End (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg96060#msg96060)
Day 2: 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg96905#msg96905) 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg97900#msg97900) 3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg98546#msg98546) 4 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg99392#msg99392) 5 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg100147#msg100147) 6 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg100777#msg100777) 7 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg101197#msg101197) 7a (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg101343#msg101343) 8 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg101424#msg101424) Day End (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg101544#msg101544)
Day 3: 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg102573#msg102573) 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4071.msg103152#msg103152)
Voltgloss: back up moderator
Mafia Ruleset (blatantly stolen from Axxle via his mafiascum game)
Game Rules:
General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it. Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to me by the posted deadline. If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. This game will have 1 week day deadlines. If a player or No Lynch does not have a simple majority at deadline, no lynch will occur, and the game will go into night. Night deadlines will be 2 days.
8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
9. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 72 hours of no activity or upon request after 48 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
8. A quicktopic link will be provided and dead players will be able to gather there after being killed unless the is a serious objection to this by a player. Any objections can be made to me in a PM.
9. In the event of a dropout, players may be asked to act as replacements. These players will be given the dropped player's role and PM. If killed players have access to the quicktopic, other quicktopic viewers will be ineligible to be a replacement.
10. If you have any suggestions or comments on this setup feel free to either post here or PM me.
11. All times will in forum time.
12. This game will have 7-day days and 2-day nights with exceptions made to prevent days ending on weekends and to start early once all night actions are received.
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
Helpful Links:
- Main Wiki Page (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
- Newbie Guide (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide)
- Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ)
- Commonly Used Abbreviations (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations)
- Mafia Theory (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theory)
Game Setup
Game Setup information:
We will be using the basic 2 of 4 setup.
The setup is
1 Mafia rolecop - investigates town roles
1 Mafia goon
5 townies
A random 2 of:
1 Cop - investigates target's alignment
1 Doctor - prevents target from being night killed
1 Jailkeeper - target can't perform night actions nor be killed
1 Townie
I am not including PMs. Each has their own flavor, any background or non-role/alignment information is for fun and has no relevant bearing on the game. I will share the PMs at the end of the game if desired by the community.
TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.
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/in
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/out on this one myself.
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Players Signed up:
1. (asherkey)
I think that's me, but I'm ashersky, not key. Although that's a neat name.
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Oh yay I am in! Yay! I will give up my seat if you want me to, though.
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I confirm my in-ness. /in
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Out this time. A bit too vanilla for my liking + more new guys playing sounds yayy.
If you have a hard time finding players though, call me maybe.
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/in
What's the slash for?
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damnit robz let the newbies have at least one robz-free game.
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damnit robz let the newbies have at least one robz-free game.
He'll probably die Night 1 again. Or lynched Day 1! For undeniable Robzness!
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damnit robz let the newbies have at least one robz-free game.
He'll probably die Night 1 again. Or lynched Day 1! For undeniable Robzness!
It's what I would do.
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In!
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Also /in for Galzria
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damnit robz let the newbies have at least one robz-free game.
If no one else has ever had a robz-free game why should we? I want to have the real experience.
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touche all.. /in.
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/in on this one myself too!
Do it right, or don't do it at all! :P
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Depends when this starts, I'm far over commited in mafia games currently.
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No, but really, /out.
Too many games ongoing, my head needs a break! Plus, while I certainly enjoy Mafia, there are SO many other good PBF game options floating around... and I want to be free to join in on all of them too!
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Depends when this starts, I'm far over commited in mafia games currently.
That is an excellent question!
It will start when I return from vacation on Sunday evening... I am hoping that 2 more people will signup before I leave in about 2 hours, so that I can e-mail out roles before I leave, so we can immediately start Sunday
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Depends when this starts, I'm far over commited in mafia games currently.
That is an excellent question!
It will start when I return from vacation on Sunday evening... I am hoping that 2 more people will signup before I leave in about 2 hours, so that I can e-mail out roles before I leave, so we can immediately start Sunday
/out
Too soon for me.
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/out
But, if you need a backup mod, I don't mind filling that role.
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Put me down as a maybe. If you need me to, I am not opposed. Is this what Losers-Only Mafia became? I want to make sure I can give the proper time to MVII.
What's with /in and /out. Programming speak?
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Put me down as a maybe. If you need me to, I am not opposed. Is this what Losers-Only Mafia became? I want to make sure I can give the proper time to MVII.
What's with /in and /out. Programming speak?
yes this is what losers mafia became.
"need" is a very loose term... I would like to fill up the slots in the next hour purely so I can send out pms before I leave, so that we can start Sunday night--just in time for our Isodom game!-- but if that doesn't happen I am pretty sure people will fill up the slots before Sunday, so I'll leave the decision up to you.
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In that case, count me out for the time being.
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No, but really, /out.
Too many games ongoing, my head needs a break! Plus, while I certainly enjoy Mafia, there are SO many other good PBF game options floating around... and I want to be free to join in on all of them too!
I was thinking Team Forum Battleships!
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No, but really, /out.
Too many games ongoing, my head needs a break! Plus, while I certainly enjoy Mafia, there are SO many other good PBF game options floating around... and I want to be free to join in on all of them too!
I was thinking Team Forum Battleships!
Team Forum Twister!
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No, but really, /out.
Too many games ongoing, my head needs a break! Plus, while I certainly enjoy Mafia, there are SO many other good PBF game options floating around... and I want to be free to join in on all of them too!
I was thinking Team Forum Battleships!
Team Forum Twister!
I wasnt joking, on the way driving home tonight I actually came up with a mafia battleships game in my head!
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i can play if needed. just pm me a role if i'm in.
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PMs are being sent out:
Confirm here when you receive them and then the game will start.
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Welcome to Mafia X – The Death of Donald X. Vaccarino.
Indianapolis --
The day has finally come. The Dominion World Championships! All of you have practiced your little brains out to compete against the best dominion players in the world. Days were spent online playing. Your hands were raw from shuffling. Each one of you wanted the glory, honor and complementary prizes that come with winning this prestigious tournament. However, some of you are suspected for nefarious and disreputable behavior during national championship games. Hidden mirrors! Oh my! Cards up your sleeves! The horrors! Illegal point counting! Gasp!
Alerted to these alleged acts Sir Donald thoroughly investigated the allegations. He sent out his spies and his minions and assembled his torturers for interrogation. In a week’s time he had all the information he needed. He sent out a message to all the World Champion participants saying that he would make a major announcement regarding cheating, ethics and disqualification the night before the championships at a small feast.
After the feast was coming to an end Donald stood at the head of the table. “Man…” was all he was able to say. There was a blinding flash! No one could see a thing. Everything was in chaos. Feet trampled, dishes fell to the floor, and someone could be heard swinging from the chandelier above! No werewolf howled—Donald didn’t allow pets to come to the World Championships, no not even your lucky pet turtle that you nick named Jay Tummelson.
As the lights came back on everyone noticed a tragedy! All of the dominion sets had been opened and scattered on the table. And… it is too hard to say. It was such a tragedy. But, as the narrator I must say it. All… sob… of the cards… were… they were all lying… lying in a… in a… in a pool of water! Ruined! The cards were ruined! They were soaked through. Never to be played with again! Some dolt knocked over the water pitcher in the bustle. (What were the cards doing on the table during dinner? I don’t know. Dominion cards are best stored away from the table while food and drink are around… personal experience talking here).
But wait! What was this… juice hadn’t been served at the dinner table. Why was the water tinted red? Everyone looked up from the tragic card disaster. The red tint wasn’t juice, it was blood. Blood from Donald X. He laid dead, his face on the table and a knife in his chest. Someone rushed to the lone open door grabbed the key, locked the door, threw the key out and slammed the door shut shouting, “We will not leave until this injustice is solved!”
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Two of you are the worst kind of scum. You are murders. You delayed the National Championships! You are cheaters! You have made a secret mafia pact with each other to prevent being outed. Your goal is to kill off your opponents until you are the only ones left. It is the only way you can be champions.
The rest of you are town and must solve this crime. Find the murders, restore justice and ensure that the National Championships can be played.
For Donald!
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confirmed
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confirmed
Vote: O
too soon?
Unvote
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Confirmed.
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confiiiirmed.
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confirmed
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Oh and nice flavor :)
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Can I ask, is there a way to see updated posts in threads besides refreshing the page?
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Can I ask, is there a way to see updated posts in threads besides refreshing the page?
No, but at the top of this page, under Hello ashersky, it should say "Show unread posts since last visit." And "Show new replies to your votes." This topic will appear in both those lists if there are any updates.
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Can I ask, is there a way to see updated posts in threads besides refreshing the page?
No, but at the top of this page, under Hello ashersky, it should say "Show unread posts since last visit." And "Show new replies to your votes." This topic will appear in both those lists if there are any updates.
Thanks. I'd been using that method. Works for me, and looking forward to my first Mafia experience!
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Confirmed! I'm excited to finally play! Also this is the point where we all role claim, right? (I am joking nobody role claim.)
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fgmmm...grrr...hmph...confirm...grmhh... >:(
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So...just to say, I'm in a far away time zone and it's creeping up on 1 a.m. here, so I will probably sleep and check in when I wake up. I'll be back!
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Confirmed. Love the flavor.
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Oh - confirmed!
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And Start!
Vote Count
Not voting (9): O, Captain Frisk, Robz, Morgrim, Jorbles, GeoLib, Eevee, asherkey, cuzz
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 will end at noon, forum time August 27.
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So many new players! This is exciting. We'll see which of you makes the cut. I wonder who is around now. Maybe GeoLib.
Geo! You there? How many scum partners do you have?
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Don't lie. I'll know if you're lying.
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Robz, stop harassing your team mates! We should stick together, we are in the minority here.
Dont worry Geo, I've got your back.
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Robz, stop harassing your team mates! We should stick together, we are in the minority here.
Dont worry Geo, I've got your back.
Buddying up! Obvscum move. Vote: Eevee
Seriously, I was called out for it in MVI, and I was scum.
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Robz, what would have been your least favorite role to receive in this game?
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Robz, what would have been your least favorite role to receive in this game?
Easy. Vanilla Townie. You?
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I'm here. Vote: Robz for being too quick to post. Obviously excited by his Mafia rolecop PM.
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I'm here. Vote: Robz for being too quick to post. Obviously excited by his Mafia rolecop PM.
Oops, you dodged the question. Vote: Geolib.
(Galzria usually takes care of all this madness for me. Sigh...)
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Robz, what would have been your least favorite role to receive in this game?
Easy. Vanilla Townie. You?
Vanilla townie.
Vote: Robz for fearing I might have a hard question.
Like seriously, RVS is over we have a winner!
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Robz, what would have been your least favorite role to receive in this game?
Easy. Vanilla Townie. You?
grmph....grrr... *frown*
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Robz, what would have been your least favorite role to receive in this game?
Easy. Vanilla Townie. You?
Vanilla townie.
Vote: Robz for fearing I might have a hard question.
Like seriously, RVS is over we have a winner!
Okay, I'm awake now. I see there were already some votes flying. As for Eevee...
From wikipedia: Eevee is a mammalian creature with brown fur, a bushy tail that has a cream-colored tip, and a furry collar that is also cream-colored. Eevee has brown eyes, big ears, and pink paw pads. Eevee is said to have an irregularly shaped genetic structure, enabling it to evolve into multiple Pokémon. Eevee are quite rare, but are able to live almost anywhere, as they may evolve to suit their surroundings. While appearing very simple in appearance, Eevee is best known for its unstable genetic code which allows it to change and mutate into different forms (through evolution) depending on its environment.
So, clearly, Eevee is scum. 2/9 is rare. Evolving to suit surroundings? Vote: Eevee
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From wikipedia: Eevee is a mammalian creature with brown fur, a bushy tail that has a cream-colored tip, and a furry collar that is also cream-colored. Eevee has brown eyes, big ears, and pink paw pads. Eevee is said to have an irregularly shaped genetic structure, enabling it to evolve into multiple Pokémon. Eevee are quite rare, but are able to live almost anywhere, as they may evolve to suit their surroundings. While appearing very simple in appearance, Eevee is best known for its unstable genetic code which allows it to change and mutate into different forms (through evolution) depending on its environment.
So, clearly, Eevee is scum. 2/9 is rare. Evolving to suit surroundings? Vote: Eevee
I knew Eevee was a pokemon, but I'd never seen it explained so clearly before. Thank you for this.
Clearly everyone is making some great points, but instead of randa-voting I'm going to go to bed and see what's developed by tomorrow.
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Question for our esteemed mod: Does the headline change to let folks know the game is afoot?
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From wikipedia: Eevee is a mammalian creature with brown fur, a bushy tail that has a cream-colored tip, and a furry collar that is also cream-colored. Eevee has brown eyes, big ears, and pink paw pads. Eevee is said to have an irregularly shaped genetic structure, enabling it to evolve into multiple Pokémon. Eevee are quite rare, but are able to live almost anywhere, as they may evolve to suit their surroundings. While appearing very simple in appearance, Eevee is best known for its unstable genetic code which allows it to change and mutate into different forms (through evolution) depending on its environment.
So, clearly, Eevee is scum. 2/9 is rare. Evolving to suit surroundings? Vote: Eevee
I knew Eevee was a pokemon, but I'd never seen it explained so clearly before. Thank you for this.
Clearly everyone is making some great points, but instead of randa-voting I'm going to go to bed and see what's developed by tomorrow.
Dodge. Obvscum. Vote: Jorbles.
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More like Robvzscum. Vote: Robz. Actually that puts three votes on him a little early. Unvote. How about we get some posts from the people who haven't posted yet since game start? Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Galzria, O. I say we prod them into joining us.
Vote: Cuzz
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Vote: Geolib for having the gall to compete with me for last one to confirm. Lurking on a weekend.... get your priorities straight people.
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Hey, some of us are on break and have trouble waking up before 11. Also, I'm new at this and mildly frightened of making a terrible forum mafia faux pas (FMFP).
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That being said,
Vote: Jorbles.
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That being said,
Vote: Jorbles.
Sweet my plan is working. Unvote. Since Frisk already showed up I can skip him and go straight to...
Vote: Galzria
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By the way, I don't know how many of the new players have read previous mafia games. Actually, it would be helpful if you let us know whether you did or not. Please do so in your next post. The reason that's helpful is it can tell me, "Well, that person should have known better than this," or not, etc.
It's also helpful for you to read some of the other games, but obviously that's not a requirement and majorly time consuming. If you do want to read a game, I recommend MIV, which is unfortunately one of the longer ones, but has ample examples of good and bad strategy among townies and mafia.
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Everyone seems to think mafia IV was the bomb, makes me sad for missing it and never even reading any of it. :/ Oh well, teaches me to never miss a game again!
I echo Robz, knowing some background would be nice.
So, a survey to all the new faces:
1) Any prior playing experience?
2) Have you read any of the games here, if yes, what games?
3) Does your role involve trying to kill all townies by orchestrating a night kill with your team mates?
4) If we were a mafia pair, which of us would do the kill tonight?
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I have read Ozle's Murder Mystery Mafia in detail, and I've popped in and out of some of the other ones, but I didn't pay a huge amount of attention to them. I'll read mafia IV if I have the time later.
Everyone seems to think mafia IV was the bomb, makes me sad for missing it and never even reading any of it. :/ Oh well, teaches me to never miss a game again!
I echo Robz, knowing some background would be nice.
So, a survey to all the new faces:
1) Any prior playing experience?
Only IRL, I've flitted around on the mafiascum wiki to familiarize myself with the game though.
2) Have you read any of the games here, if yes, what games?
See above
3) Does your role involve trying to kill all townies by orchestrating a night kill with your team mates?
Ye- I mean NO. DOES YOURS?
4) If we were a mafia pair, which of us would do the kill tonight?
Thinking about it, I guess whichever of us was the Goon? Doesn't the other mafia get to do investigating in this set up? [Note: I'm just saying what I think mafia strategy would be.]
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That being said,
Vote: Jorbles.
Sweet my plan is working. Unvote. Since Frisk already showed up I can skip him and go straight to...
Vote: Galzria
Imagine my dismay to find out that this isn't even a valid vote. FOS: Galzria
Vote: RobZ as a poor substitute.
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Hmm, I feel like answering all of your questions would be a major FMFP. However:
1. Only a few IRL party games.
2. Haven't read any in detail. At Robz's suggestion I might look at IV but Zeus on a bike is that long. I'd really, really love to be able to say that I have better things to do today than read through 140 pages of forum posts.
3. Nice try. My role PM did seem to contain an unnecessary amount of gender confusion though.
4. Again nice try. I've been hurt too many times before.
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That being said,
Vote: Jorbles.
Sweet my plan is working. Unvote. Since Frisk already showed up I can skip him and go straight to...
Vote: Galzria
Imagine my dismay to find out that this isn't even a valid vote. FOS: Galzria
Vote: RobZ as a poor substitute.
Oh oops, should have been reading those forum posts more closely, but my plan seems to be working only one person hasn't posted since confirming. [Vote: O]
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3. Nice try. My role PM did seem to contain an unnecessary amount of gender confusion though.
Softclaim girl?
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Uhm 4) was a serious question. Answering "nice try" is like saying "don't you know I can't respond to this truthfully!?" How no one else is voting for Robz for his scumslip is beyond me, but personslly I'm happy I found his scum partner already.
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Uhm 4) was a serious question. Answering "nice try" is like saying "don't you know I can't respond to this truthfully!?" How no one else is voting for Robz for his scumslip is beyond me, but personslly I'm happy I found his scum partner already.
Oh, I see I've screwed myself already. Didn't take long. It was more that I have serious trouble answering hypothetical questions that don't apply to me. Now to shut up for a bit.
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Uhm 4) was a serious question. Answering "nice try" is like saying "don't you know I can't respond to this truthfully!?" How no one else is voting for Robz for his scumslip is beyond me, but personslly I'm happy I found his scum partner already.
Oh, I see I've screwed myself already. Didn't take long. It was more that I have serious trouble answering hypothetical questions that don't apply to me. Now to shut up for a bit.
Don't mind Eevee. If you provide a lot of info, he'll clear you every time.
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Uhm 4) was a serious question. Answering "nice try" is like saying "don't you know I can't respond to this truthfully!?" How no one else is voting for Robz for his scumslip is beyond me, but personslly I'm happy I found his scum partner already.
Oh, I see I've screwed myself already. Didn't take long. It was more that I have serious trouble answering hypothetical questions that don't apply to me. Now to shut up for a bit.
Don't mind Eevee. If you provide a lot of info, he'll clear you every time.
He is not though, obvscum.
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Everyone seems to think mafia IV was the bomb, makes me sad for missing it and never even reading any of it. :/ Oh well, teaches me to never miss a game again!
I echo Robz, knowing some background would be nice.
So, a survey to all the new faces:
1) Any prior playing experience?
2) Have you read any of the games here, if yes, what games?
3) Does your role involve trying to kill all townies by orchestrating a night kill with your team mates?
4) If we were a mafia pair, which of us would do the kill tonight?
So I'm back from dinner, and ready to rejoin the fray. So, on to questions!
1) None.
2) I have read some of the nose-stealing thread, thereby being forewarned of Robz and Eevee shenanigans.
3) I think you missed a comma somewhere in there.
4) As a newbie, I think if we were mafia, I would defer to you, since you are mafia, as noted by my previous vote.
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Everyone seems to think mafia IV was the bomb, makes me sad for missing it and never even reading any of it. :/ Oh well, teaches me to never miss a game again!
I echo Robz, knowing some background would be nice.
So, a survey to all the new faces:
1) Any prior playing experience?
2) Have you read any of the games here, if yes, what games?
3) Does your role involve trying to kill all townies by orchestrating a night kill with your team mates?
4) If we were a mafia pair, which of us would do the kill tonight?
Also, fishing for this much information so quickly is obvscum, right?
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2) I have read some of the nose-stealing thread, thereby being forewarned of Robz and Eevee shenanigans.
What do you mean by this? We were both town, and Robz didn't post much at all before his early demise. I on the other hand lived until the end, which proved to be the town's demise because I'm bad at playing well.
Everyone seems to think mafia IV was the bomb, makes me sad for missing it and never even reading any of it. :/ Oh well, teaches me to never miss a game again!
I echo Robz, knowing some background would be nice.
So, a survey to all the new faces:
1) Any prior playing experience?
2) Have you read any of the games here, if yes, what games?
3) Does your role involve trying to kill all townies by orchestrating a night kill with your team mates?
4) If we were a mafia pair, which of us would do the kill tonight?
Also, fishing for this much information so quickly is obvscum, right?
Fishing for information of how you would play as mafia is obvscum? Sure..
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Uhm 4) was a serious question. Answering "nice try" is like saying "don't you know I can't respond to this truthfully!?" How no one else is voting for Robz for his scumslip is beyond me, but personslly I'm happy I found his scum partner already.
Eevee, what slip was this? The Robz one.
...
Also, fishing for this much information so quickly is obvscum, right?
I don't think the sort of info being fished for is scummy. It'll probably help us in the long run as it makes lying harder.
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Newb account here.
1. I've played the lame IRL version where you're in a circle and can't really do anything interesting.
2. I got interested after reading Donald X.'s Personman lynch on the tournament "discussion" forum. Then I started reading Mafia IX (Major Arcana) because it had just started. Haven't read any others. Not really sure I have time.
3. No
4. Is this a rules question? If so, doesn't either Mafia have the power to send in a NK? If they send in different ones then the most recent one stands yeah? If it's a "who would decide" question, then I suppose we would discuss...
Also, unvote: Robz. I don't like L-2 at RVS
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Main point of the questions is to get to know how you think. It does make future lying a bit harder which is another bonus, but mainly it's just a good starting to point on forming reads on guys I have not seen before. But you know, no worries, as Robz pointed out, one long post full of information and I'll move you to obvtown-category.
Meanwhile,I present you Robz being afraid of me catching him with a sneaky RVS question:
Robz, what would have been your least favorite role to receive in this game?
Easy. Vanilla Townie. You?
Oh and in case someone thinks I'm serious with this accusation.. only like 30%.
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@GeoLib
Yeah, one guy sends in the kill order. It does matter who it is though, because possible jailkeepers gonna possibly jailkeep.
(This question is kind of silly, but for example I liked how Jorbles thought it would be smart for mafia to hedge their bets a bit by having the goon do the kill instead of the rolecop.)
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@GeoLib
Yeah, one guy sends in the kill order. It does matter who it is though, because possible jailkeepers gonna possibly jailkeep.
(This question is kind of silly, but for example I liked how Jorbles thought it would be smart for mafia to hedge their bets a bit by having the goon do the kill instead of the rolecop.)
Oh. That makes sense. So let's say you and Robz both send in NKs. Whoever sent his last is the one who is considered to be doing the NK, and if they're jailed then it doesn't happen, correct?
Also, I think jorbles, wasn't saying that it was better for you to hedge your bets. More like, "well the rolecop gets to do the investigating, so the goon should get to do the killing." only fair. Is that the strategy you'll be following?
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2) I have read some of the nose-stealing thread, thereby being forewarned of Robz and Eevee shenanigans.
What do you mean by this? We were both town, and Robz didn't post much at all before his early demise. I on the other hand lived until the end, which proved to be the town's demise because I'm bad at playing well.
Really not much was meant by it, other than I recall early thread back and forth and your names stuck out. I guess you're memorable.
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@GeoLib
Yeah, one guy sends in the kill order. It does matter who it is though, because possible jailkeepers gonna possibly jailkeep.
(This question is kind of silly, but for example I liked how Jorbles thought it would be smart for mafia to hedge their bets a bit by having the goon do the kill instead of the rolecop.)
Oh. That makes sense. So let's say you and Robz both send in NKs. Whoever sent his last is the one who is considered to be doing the NK, and if they're jailed then it doesn't happen, correct?
Also, I think jorbles, wasn't saying that it was better for you to hedge your bets. More like, "well the rolecop gets to do the investigating, so the goon should get to do the killing." only fair. Is that the strategy you'll be following?
I dont understand why both mafia members would ever send in a kill. Like, they agree on a target and a killer and then that person sends in the order?
But personally, I think the guy who is less likely to be jailkept should do it. And generally I would assume that would be the newer player, because power roles like to target people they deem most influential to the game.
@me being memorable
Must be the cute avatar.
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So which roles are in this game?
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So which roles are in this game?
There's 2 Mafia (one of which is a Role Cop) plus 1 or 2 of the following (Cop, Doctor, Jailkeeper).
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We will be using the basic 2 of 4 setup.
The setup is
1 Mafia rolecop - investigates town roles
1 Mafia goon
5 townies
A random 2 of:
1 Cop - investigates target's alignment
1 Doctor - prevents target from being night killed
1 Jailkeeper - target can't perform night actions nor be killed
1 Townie
So we've got 2 scum (1 Rolecop), 5 or 6 VTs, and 1 or 2 power roles.
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So which roles are in this game?
There's 2 Mafia (one of which is a Role Cop) plus 1 or 2 of the following (Cop, Doctor, Jailkeeper).
I get that much. Which one is Robz?
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Ok, so maybe the random voting thing is not so helpful.
Unvote: Jorbles
For you more experienced folk, though, what are some of the strategies for going about this? What should I look for in people's posts? Is Eevee talking too much? Is that suspicious? Is anyone being too quiet? Is that suspicious? Does anyone have valid suspicions with evidence that they'd like to share yet? Can I trust any of you scum?
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For you more experienced folk, though, what are some of the strategies for going about this? What should I look for in people's posts? Is Eevee talking too much? Is that suspicious? Is anyone being too quiet? Is that suspicious? Does anyone have valid suspicions with evidence that they'd like to share yet? Can I trust any of you scum?
Well I'm not experienced, but O hasn't said anything since being the first to confirm. Maybe he's asleep or something. Would a rundown of timezones be helpful to narrow the scope of potential future excuses? Also, does anyone know of a good source (like a mafiascum article) on Day 1 behavior. It seems unlikely to me that scum will be so careless as to out themselves without some clever prodding.
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Day 1 is generally impossible. First we'll joke around a bit, then someone will say something someone else is going to pick on, eventually we'll form a wagon which then fizzles when the accusee claims a power role. We hastily find some other target, he claims VT, we go "sweet!" and lynch him, he does flip VT. Then we analyze the wagon/night kill tomorrow and hopefully start finding scum.
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For you more experienced folk, though, what are some of the strategies for going about this? What should I look for in people's posts? Is Eevee talking too much? Is that suspicious? Is anyone being too quiet? Is that suspicious? Does anyone have valid suspicions with evidence that they'd like to share yet? Can I trust any of you scum?
Well I'm not experienced, but O hasn't said anything since being the first to confirm. Maybe he's asleep or something. Would a rundown of timezones be helpful to narrow the scope of potential future excuses? Also, does anyone know of a good source (like a mafiascum article) on Day 1 behavior. It seems unlikely to me that scum will be so careless as to out themselves without some clever prodding.
The problem with any article is that any scum player can read it as well, and act accordingly. Just think for yourself!
I'm GMT+2, but my sleep schedule is so wacky it almost doesn't matter.
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Day 1 is generally impossible. First we'll joke around a bit, then someone will say something someone else is going to pick on, eventually we'll form a wagon which then fizzles when the accusee claims a power role. We hastily find some other target, he claims VT, we go "sweet!" and lynch him, he does flip VT. Then we analyze the wagon/night kill tomorrow and hopefully start finding scum.
Well that's rather bleak...
PDT (GMT -8, I think)
Next week will be moving to EDT (GMT -5, I think)
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Regarding Day 1, in no game of Forum Mafia (regular, bastard or otherwise) have we lynched a scum-aligned player on Day 1.
I dare us to do better.
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Would a rundown of timezones be helpful to narrow the scope of potential future excuses?
I'm GMT+3, I think. That is, I'm three hours ahead of GMT, seven hours ahead of Eastern US.
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I'm also in PDT.
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Regarding Day 1, in no game of Forum Mafia (regular, bastard or otherwise) have we lynched a scum-aligned player on Day 1.
I dare us to do better.
Softclaim scum? Unvote. Vote: Robz888.
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I'm in EDT.
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Reading about the set-up on Mafiascum. Mod clarification question. Can the Rolecop NK and investigate on the same night?
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Mod question: Where's our Mod?
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Reading about the set-up on Mafiascum. Mod clarification question. Can the Rolecop NK and investigate on the same night?
I have not had an opportunity to confirm this with yuma yet, but as backup mod I can state that in each of the other f:DS newbie games so far (M-I, M-II, M-VII) the Rolecop was able to both NK and investigate simultaneously.
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
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@volt: will we get a subject line change to signal setting, etc.?
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Super unofficial vote count:
Robz (3): ashersky, Captain_Frisk, Eevee
O (1): Jorbles
Jorbles (1): Robz888
Not voting (4): Cuzz, Geolib, O, Morgim7
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Fair enough. Unvote.
Any reasoning as to why it shouldn't be you, though?
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Unvote.
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Fair enough. Unvote.
Any reasoning as to why it shouldn't be you, though?
Rolefishing is not very pro-town.
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Fair enough. Unvote.
Any reasoning as to why it shouldn't be you, though?
Because I'm not scum.
Also, all things being equal, we're probably better off lynching a noob. Look what happened in MVII (what happened was the 3 most experience players died Day 1, Night 1, Day 2... and scum cruised to an easy win).
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Fair enough. Unvote.
Any reasoning as to why it shouldn't be you, though?
Rolefishing is not very pro-town.
I wasn't rolefishing...mostly since I didnt know what that is. I can guess though. Mostly just trying to stimulate some conversation.
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Fair enough. Unvote.
Any reasoning as to why it shouldn't be you, though?
Because I'm not scum.
Also, all things being equal, we're probably better off lynching a noob. Look what happened in MVII (what happened was the 3 most experience players died Day 1, Night 1, Day 2... and scum cruised to an easy win).
Aren't we actually better off lynching Mafia? Do we really want to kill off town numbers just to get the people who don't really know what they're doing out of the game?
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Fair enough. Unvote.
Any reasoning as to why it shouldn't be you, though?
Because I'm not scum.
Also, all things being equal, we're probably better off lynching a noob. Look what happened in MVII (what happened was the 3 most experience players died Day 1, Night 1, Day 2... and scum cruised to an easy win).
Aren't we actually better off lynching Mafia? Do we really want to kill off town numbers just to get the people who don't really know what they're doing out of the game?
Of course we're better off lynching mafia. Is that actually a question?
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Modifying the topic subject line is outside of my ability as backup mod, but I'll mention it to yuma.
What I can do is provide a votecount:
Vote Count 1-1
Robz888 (2): Eevee, Captain_Frisk
O (1): Jorbles
Not voting {6}: ashersky, Cuzz, GeoLib, Robz888, O, Morgrim7
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, August 27, at noon forum time (EDT)
(Note also that I will be using purple text for my backup modposts, in contrast to yuma's using blue.)
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Fair enough. Unvote.
Any reasoning as to why it shouldn't be you, though?
Because I'm not scum.
Also, all things being equal, we're probably better off lynching a noob. Look what happened in MVII (what happened was the 3 most experience players died Day 1, Night 1, Day 2... and scum cruised to an easy win).
Aren't we actually better off lynching Mafia? Do we really want to kill off town numbers just to get the people who don't really know what they're doing out of the game?
Of course we're better off lynching mafia. Is that actually a question?
Not a sincere one, no. I just mean, why should we have any motivation in our decision whatsoever other than trying to root out who is actually scum?
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Fair enough. Unvote.
Any reasoning as to why it shouldn't be you, though?
Rolefishing is not very pro-town.
I wasn't rolefishing...mostly since I didnt know what that is. I can guess though. Mostly just trying to stimulate some conversation.
The only way Robz can answer that question (besides "I'm town") is by roleclaiming, which is hugely anti-town obviously. What other reason could there be?
@Robz
While that is kind of true, we also only got 1 power role (who died night 1), timchen went crazy, I'm generally a liability and scum just played masterfully. It's not really fair to say M VII was lost because you, Galzria and Frisk died first. That's not to say I dont like having you around, I do. But I think going after lurkers is going to be better than going after new people.
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Fair enough. Unvote.
Any reasoning as to why it shouldn't be you, though?
Because I'm not scum.
Also, all things being equal, we're probably better off lynching a noob. Look what happened in MVII (what happened was the 3 most experience players died Day 1, Night 1, Day 2... and scum cruised to an easy win).
Aren't we actually better off lynching Mafia? Do we really want to kill off town numbers just to get the people who don't really know what they're doing out of the game?
Of course we're better off lynching mafia. Is that actually a question?
Not a sincere one, no. I just mean, why should we have any motivation in our decision whatsoever other than trying to root out who is actually scum?
Because, knowing that no town has ever killed a scum on Day 1, it's worthwhile keeping in mind a need to preserve quality town players.
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Fair enough. Unvote.
Any reasoning as to why it shouldn't be you, though?
Because I'm not scum.
Also, all things being equal, we're probably better off lynching a noob. Look what happened in MVII (what happened was the 3 most experience players died Day 1, Night 1, Day 2... and scum cruised to an easy win).
Aren't we actually better off lynching Mafia? Do we really want to kill off town numbers just to get the people who don't really know what they're doing out of the game?
Of course we're better off lynching mafia. Is that actually a question?
Not a sincere one, no. I just mean, why should we have any motivation in our decision whatsoever other than trying to root out who is actually scum?
Because, knowing that no town has ever killed a scum on Day 1, it's worthwhile keeping in mind a need to preserve quality town players.
In mafia VI, would you have guessed how awesome PPS was going to play?
I do agree we want to keep quality players around. But I think it's better to weed out lurkers than weed out new guys to accomplish that.
Unvote, shortest RVS ever.
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Fair enough. Unvote.
Any reasoning as to why it shouldn't be you, though?
Because I'm not scum.
Also, all things being equal, we're probably better off lynching a noob. Look what happened in MVII (what happened was the 3 most experience players died Day 1, Night 1, Day 2... and scum cruised to an easy win).
Aren't we actually better off lynching Mafia? Do we really want to kill off town numbers just to get the people who don't really know what they're doing out of the game?
Of course we're better off lynching mafia. Is that actually a question?
Not a sincere one, no. I just mean, why should we have any motivation in our decision whatsoever other than trying to root out who is actually scum?
Because, knowing that no town has ever killed a scum on Day 1, it's worthwhile keeping in mind a need to preserve quality town players.
So I guess us newbies can infer how you feel about our "quality." Vote: Robz888.
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If we're going for lurkers. Vote: O
What does he have real life or something?
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If we're going for lurkers. Vote: O
What does he have real life or something?
He's active in other threads all the time, but he might just have not noticed this thing started already. It's been what, a couple of hours?
And just a warning about O's general playstyle, he is not known for being around with long constructive posts all the time..
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If we're going for lurkers. Vote: O
What does he have real life or something?
I don't think his lurking is egregious yet, but yeah let's at least prompt him into joining us.
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Reading about the set-up on Mafiascum. Mod clarification question. Can the Rolecop NK and investigate on the same night?
I have not had an opportunity to confirm this with yuma yet, but as backup mod I can state that in each of the other f:DS newbie games so far (M-I, M-II, M-VII) the Rolecop was able to both NK and investigate simultaneously.
confirmed. Phone posting is hard so you won't getmuch out of me when I am at work. Thanks volt.
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So, as we pass the midnight hour here in my location on the globe, and I prepare to turn in for the night, I leave you with a last newbie question: can you run down the best-case scenarios for the town? I'm guessing it is:
Day 1: Lynch Mafia RoleCop
Night 1: Mafia Goon kills VT
Day 2: Lynch Mafia Goon
Am I missing anything on goals?
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So, as we pass the midnight hour here in my location on the globe, and I prepare to turn in for the night, I leave you with a last newbie question: can you run down the best-case scenarios for the town? I'm guessing it is:
Day 1: Lynch Mafia RoleCop
Night 1: Mafia Goon kills VT
Day 2: Lynch Mafia Goon
Am I missing anything on goals?
Night 1 the remaining mafia or his target is jailkept, or the target is doctored.
But uhm.. why are you asking this?
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So, as we pass the midnight hour here in my location on the globe, and I prepare to turn in for the night, I leave you with a last newbie question: can you run down the best-case scenarios for the town? I'm guessing it is:
Day 1: Lynch Mafia RoleCop
Night 1: Mafia Goon kills VT
Day 2: Lynch Mafia Goon
Am I missing anything on goals?
Night 1 the remaining mafia or his target is jailkept, or the target is doctored.
But uhm.. why are you asking this?
Curiosity. Robz was complaining that there'd been no success on Day 1 to date. I was thinking through the ideal.
I have also seen in other threads the lynch/no lynch argument for Day 1. Any thoughts there?
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So, as we pass the midnight hour here in my location on the globe, and I prepare to turn in for the night, I leave you with a last newbie question: can you run down the best-case scenarios for the town? I'm guessing it is:
Day 1: Lynch Mafia RoleCop
Night 1: Mafia Goon kills VT
Day 2: Lynch Mafia Goon
Am I missing anything on goals?
Night 1 the remaining mafia or his target is jailkept, or the target is doctored.
But uhm.. why are you asking this?
Curiosity. Robz was complaining that there'd been no success on Day 1 to date. I was thinking through the ideal.
I have also seen in other threads the lynch/no lynch argument for Day 1. Any thoughts there?
My thought is: Let's not have the argument again. There is no definitive answer. And the argument doesn't get us anywhere. I know this from experience.
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So, as we pass the midnight hour here in my location on the globe, and I prepare to turn in for the night, I leave you with a last newbie question: can you run down the best-case scenarios for the town? I'm guessing it is:
Day 1: Lynch Mafia RoleCop
Night 1: Mafia Goon kills VT
Day 2: Lynch Mafia Goon
Am I missing anything on goals?
Night 1 the remaining mafia or his target is jailkept, or the target is doctored.
But uhm.. why are you asking this?
Curiosity. Robz was complaining that there'd been no success on Day 1 to date. I was thinking through the ideal.
I have also seen in other threads the lynch/no lynch argument for Day 1. Any thoughts there?
It's a very bad idea - because we start day 2 with no more information than we have now, but with 1 less townie. There's a minor argument that it might be beneficial if you have a cop - who will then get some an extra investigation if you no lynch twice.
I can't talk about other games where no lynches happened - because they are on going.
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What's the deal with the quicktopic thing? Are active players allowed to look at what people are saying there?
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What's the deal with the quicktopic thing? Are active players allowed to look at what people are saying there?
No. Sorry I should have specified. Only spectators and dead players are allowed.in fact I should not have put it up. Sorry I will need to make another one that people can pm me asking for
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Yeah, aren't QTs usually for people to talk about the game after they're out? I'm not sure how having a public QT open at the front of the thread will affect the game, but isn't it normally hidden from active players?
ninja'd by mod
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Hi, guys, this is Morgrim. I am showing up to post a vote, and if you make a wagon on me I will selfhammer and turn up VT. BTW, I am a VT. >:(>:(>:(>:(>:(>:(
Vote: Robz888
this is newbie mafia, right?
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What's the deal with the quicktopic thing? Are active players allowed to look at what people are saying there?
No. Sorry I should have specified. Only spectators and dead players are allowed.in fact I should not have put it up. Sorry I will need to make another one that people can pm me asking for
Ok. Full disclosure: I did see the first 3 posts on there. Maybe the mods should let everyone see? Not sure if it really matters though.
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Hi, guys, this is Morgrim. I am showing up to post a vote, and if you make a wagon on me I will selfhammer and turn up VT. BTW, I am a VT. >:(>:(>:(>:(>:(>:(
Vote: Robz888
this is newbie mafia, right?
Oh Jesus Christ, who let Morgrim into this game? Ugh. And stop voting for me, people. RVS is over!
Seriously though, with Morgrim in the game it's dangerous putting anybody to L-1 (that means, one vote short of lynch). Because Morgrim will swoop in and hammer. Is this anti-town? Hell yes. Does this mean Morgrim is mafia? Well, it hasn't in any game so far.
Unfortunately, there exists such a thing as the Morgrim Insanity Defense, which is this: "He's not mafia, he's just being Morgrim." BEcause Morgrim is irrational, crazy, and anti-town--even when he's town.
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Unvote, didn't realize we had a morgrim in the house. I'm so happy we do!
Geolib, why did you call O out for lurking, when Morgrim had zero posts too? (I personally do not think calling either out was really necessary yet, but you know.)
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wrong thread Eev
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I'm an idiot and I'm the one in the wrong thread. Carry on.
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wrong thread Eev
I'm an idiot and I'm the one in the wrong thread. Carry on.
And your shame is now recorded for eternity.
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What's the deal with the quicktopic thing? Are active players allowed to look at what people are saying there?
No. Sorry I should have specified. Only spectators and dead players are allowed.in fact I should not have put it up. Sorry I will need to make another one that people can pm me asking for
Ok. Full disclosure: I did see the first 3 posts on there. Maybe the mods should let everyone see? Not sure if it really matters though.
Thanks... All it contained was Galz's predictions... nothing too big...
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Geolib, why did you call O out for lurking, when Morgrim had zero posts too? (I personally do not think calling either out was really necessary yet, but you know.)
Well not to put words in Geolib's mouth, but Morgrim did post once right after the game start, but O still hasn't checked in after his confirm. Actually here's a newb strategy question, should I be putting explanations for someone else forward (in case they don't think of them) or should I keep quiet so we can evaluate their response?
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Geolib, why did you call O out for lurking, when Morgrim had zero posts too? (I personally do not think calling either out was really necessary yet, but you know.)
Well not to put words in Geolib's mouth, but Morgrim did post once right after the game start, but O still hasn't checked in after his confirm. Actually here's a newb strategy question, should I be putting explanations for someone else forward (in case they don't think of them) or should I keep quiet so we can evaluate their response?
I think for the most part, when in doubt it's always better to post than it is not to post.
And actually checking in (thus realizing the game has started) and then not posting is infinitely scummier than not realizing the has even started. You know, the title got changed just recently and everything. Just refusing to come here when you know the game has already be the stupidest mafia ploy ever. Posting the bare minimum on the other hand..
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Geolib, why did you call O out for lurking, when Morgrim had zero posts too? (I personally do not think calling either out was really necessary yet, but you know.)
Well Morgrim did actually post something, although it wasn't terribly helpful:
Robz, what would have been your least favorite role to receive in this game?
Easy. Vanilla Townie. You?
grmph....grrr... *frown*
But mostly I was still RVSing (does that work?). Sort of prodding him to post. I think it's far more likely that he's asleep or hasn't noticed that the game started. Hence the somewhat facetious What does he have real life or something?
Does bolding my name count as voting, or was that just to get my attention?
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Oh, also, is there a way to just see posts from a certain person?
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Just to get your attention, it's not a vote unless it's in the correct form (Vote: Eevee for example).
Viewing the thread in print mode and searching for the isotropic nickname of the desired person will show you all the posts he has made in this thread.
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Ok. So it's still just ctrl+F? The problem is when people use the name in their posts. Oh well. Thanks.
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Ok. So it's still just ctrl+F? The problem is when people use the name in their posts. Oh well. Thanks.
Thats why you use the isotropic name. No one uses that one. (I now see it is the same for you for example, that is unfortunate. I don't think anyone has presented a better way yet.)
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Just to get your attention, it's not a vote unless it's in the correct form (Vote: Eevee for example).
Viewing the thread in print mode and searching for the isotropic nickname of the desired person will show you all the posts he has made in this thread.
Did you just technically vote for yourself? What's the strategy here?
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Ok. So it's still just ctrl+F? The problem is when people use the name in their posts. Oh well. Thanks.
Thats why you use the isotropic name. No one uses that one. (I now see it is the same for you for example, that is unfortunate. I don't think anyone has presented a better way yet.)
Within the print screen I search "post by: ____" this brings up posts only by that person.
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Ok. So it's still just ctrl+F? The problem is when people use the name in their posts. Oh well. Thanks.
Thats why you use the isotropic name. No one uses that one. (I now see it is the same for you for example, that is unfortunate. I don't think anyone has presented a better way yet.)
Is print mode something other than clicking the "print" button next to "Send this Topic" and "Mark Unread"? Because if not then the isotropic usernames don't show up when I click that. I think I can just click all though which does still show the isotropic usernames.
Ah. Yuma just came up with the best way I think. Thanks!
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Everyone gathered around the table was deep in shock...
Morgrim was mumbling incoherently, C-Frisk and GeoLib were frantically trying to dry off the Dominion cards with their breathe (it didn't work very well). Jorbles and O had fallen fast asleep. Asherkey was curled up in a ball in the corner crying while Eevee and Cuzz couldn't stop looking at Donald's dead face. Robz was probably the worst off having found the hard liquor. But we won't go into details...
Vote Count 1-2
Robz888 (3): asherkey, Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7
O (2): Jorbles, GeoLib
Not voting (4): Eevee, Cuzz, Robz888, O
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, August 27, at noon forum time (EDT)
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I dont even have to Unvote apparently :)
Robz having three RVS-esque votes him seems excessive/not very fair. Still 6 days to the deadline, and O hasnt even found his way here yet! No new votes on him before we actually decide we really want to lynch him, please. I say this as the guy who started the wagon!
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Just mad 'cause this is the millionth game where I have been a VT. >:( >:(
Ok, Unvote. Lets play nice.
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Just mad 'cause this is the millionth game where I have been a VT. >:( >:(
Ok, Unvote. Lets play nice.
God damnit morgrim
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fgmmm...grrr...hmph...confirm...grmhh... >:(
Robz, what would have been your least favorite role to receive in this game?
Easy. Vanilla Townie. You?
grmph....grrr... *frown*
if you make a wagon on me I will selfhammer and turn up VT. BTW, I am a VT. >:(>:(>:(>:(>:(>:(
Just mad 'cause this is the millionth game where I have been a VT. >:( >:(
Does being this obviously mad about being VT seem sort of scummy to anyone else? I realize "Morgrim is Morgrim. blah blah," but I don't know, this strikes me as odd. Robz says he hasn't ever been mafia when he flips, but he's just as likely to be as anyone else... Seems like we're overdue for a scum Morgrim (I realized that this is not how probability works).
FOS: Morgrim
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fgmmm...grrr...hmph...confirm...grmhh... >:(
Robz, what would have been your least favorite role to receive in this game?
Easy. Vanilla Townie. You?
grmph....grrr... *frown*
if you make a wagon on me I will selfhammer and turn up VT. BTW, I am a VT. >:(>:(>:(>:(>:(>:(
Just mad 'cause this is the millionth game where I have been a VT. >:( >:(
Does being this obviously mad about being VT seem sort of scummy to anyone else? I realize "Morgrim is Morgrim. blah blah," but I don't know, this strikes me as odd. Robz says he hasn't ever been mafia when he flips, but he's just as likely to be as anyone else... Seems like we're overdue for a scum Morgrim (I realized that this is not how probability works).
FOS: Morgrim
Everything any of you people say seems scummy to me. I don't know what to think anymore.
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But more constructively, yes, I'd tend to agree.
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I think my time zone wakes up first, so I'm back and presumably awaiting you all.
I noticed Yuma has dropped back into misspelling my name.
As RVS is officially over, I look forward to finding out who is really scum now. I'm hesitant to say my Robz vote was RVS, though, since he's been fairly testy in his posts up to now, and especially about being RVSed. Snapping at the newbies seems slightly scummy, even if (or especially since?) he's been through this before.
Gaming question: do these forum games ever include actual role-playing (i.e., we all stay within the prepared flavor text for the things we discuss)?
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I think my time zone wakes up first, so I'm back and presumably awaiting you all.
I noticed Yuma has dropped back into misspelling my name.
As RVS is officially over, I look forward to finding out who is really scum now. I'm hesitant to say my Robz vote was RVS, though, since he's been fairly testy in his posts up to now, and especially about being RVSed. Snapping at the newbies seems slightly scummy, even if (or especially since?) he's been through this before.
Gaming question: do these forum games ever include actual role-playing (i.e., we all stay within the prepared flavor text for the things we discuss)?
Yours may wake up first, but I haven't even gone to bed yet! My impression of Robz's tone was that he was just messing around for most of it. He's also right that it was a bad idea to RVS him to much without keeping track of votes (I think he got all the way to L-2 even with some people unvoting). As for lynching newbs, while I personally object to this, it's not an idea wholly without merit: all other things being equal, experienced town is probably more useful than newb town. I say focus on lynching scum though (obviously).
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I say focus on lynching scum though (obviously).
Agreed! I say we break the streak and lynch mafia Day 1.
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You guys wanna lynch me? That is okay, I'm just a VT and you might gain some info from my death. Yeah, I like that idea. I will vote for myself if you like. In fact, Vote: Morgrim7. I'll unvote if you like.
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Okay this is ridiculous.
Vote: Morgrim, now and in every game.
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My suspicions are still on lurker O (who I saw playing Dominion last night in the Great Hall *gasp*), but if Morgrim is willing to vote for himself I don't really see what use he is to the town.
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In addition to voting for himself he has also early claimed VT. This is also anti-town.
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Unvote. Vote: Morgrim7.
More info is better than no info. Looks like a wagon.
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Vote Count 1-3
Robz888 (1): Captain_Frisk
O (2): Jorbles, GeoLib
Morgrim7 (3): Morgrim7, Robz888, ashersky
Not voting (3): Eevee, Cuzz, O
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, August 27, at noon forum time (EDT)
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I wouldn't even put it past Morgrim to be scum after all this.. but I think you are all being too hasty.
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I wouldn't even put it past Morgrim to be scum after all this.. but I think you are all being too hasty.
I agree that we're being hasty, but Jesus Christ, he gave away his role and self-voted, like, immediately. We can't keep excusing this behavior.
In truth, this is too crazy, even for Morgrim, so quickly out of the gate. It may be staged. If not, it is a long overdue policy lynch.
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I am totally onboard the policy lynch for super anti-town behavior, but I think we should at least wait for O to get here. I would be a little annoyed if D1 lynch was decided before I'd even realized the game had started...
But yeah, roleclaiming, self-voting, threatening to self-hammer, posting only complaints about how one is VT...
I say unless we get a strong scum read on someone else, then we lynch Morgrim. He's just as likely to be scum as anyone else in the D1 crapshoot, and is playing anti-town regardless.
I'm holding off casting my vote until O gets here though.
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GOD DAMNIT GUYS WHAT THE HELL
I wanted to actively lurk until
a) I got to L-1
b) Someone else got to L-1 and I could hammer in my first post.
That being said Morgrim is VT and Robz is scum
evidence:
---Redirecting to lynch by classes -> trying to lynch a "newbie". Anyone whose read MVII, which robz played in, knows that the concept that new players are worse is false
---Trying to lynch Morgrim the VT, when he knows in his heart of hearts Morgrim is infact a VT, and he knows policy-lynching Morgrim is never a good idea.
---Scum are more often going to vote for their scumbuddies in RVS than other random townies, and as Robz got a nice big RVS wagon probably someone voting for him was scum.
---Shut up and listen because Robz is scum. Kthx.
Vote: Robz the real scum lynch
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---Redirecting to lynch by classes -> trying to lynch a "newbie". Anyone whose read MVII, which robz played in, knows that the concept that new players are worse is false
---Trying to lynch Morgrim the VT, when he knows in his heart of hearts Morgrim is infact a VT, and he knows policy-lynching Morgrim is never a good idea.
This. This puts into words well the feeling I was getting, and that prompted my original Robz vote. And now I'm re-convinced. He was testy at his own RVS luck and went on the offensive to redirect votes. That said, he did make a good point on Morgrim's behavior.
Still, you gotta go with the gut. Unvote. Vote: Robz888.
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Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Yeah, this line plus everything O said has made me suspicious (the last point was especially convincing).
I'm for building the Vote: Robz888 bandwagon back up.
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Hahaha. Okay. You're all in for a rude awakening.
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Hey, so I don't think I got a warning about ashersky's post before mine went through. Oh well. So Robz is at L-1, right?
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L-1 with Morgrim not on you Robz.
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Hey, so I don't think I got a warning about ashersky's post before mine went through. Oh well. So Robz is at L-1, right?
I'm effectively dead then unless you unvote. The second Morgrim gets here it's over.
Eevee or Frisk: If either of you were thinking about a rescue, now is the time!
I am a Vanilla Townie, by the way.
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Ok fine. Unvote. We've got a lot of time to think this through.
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Hey Guys! Let's not be hasty. We have a week, so let's stop getting people to L-1 without discussion. Sheesh, you look away for an hour...
Not to say that Robz isn't scum. O, could you explain why
he knows policy-lynching Morgrim is never a good idea.
It seems like sort of a good idea to me, all other things being equal. But yeah, if your evidence is all true (not sure if I'm going to go read MVII), that is rather scummy. Thanks for laying out the evidence like that. Very helpful
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Hey, so I don't think I got a warning about ashersky's post before mine went through. Oh well. So Robz is at L-1, right?
I'm effectively dead then unless you unvote. The second Morgrim gets here it's over.
Eevee or Frisk: If either of you were thinking about a rescue, now is the time!
I am a Vanilla Townie, by the way.
How could I rescue you? I dont understand, I'm not voting atm.
I do think O makes sense btw.
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ninja'd by cuzz, but yeah. A week guys...
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Because Morgrim is going to scumslip if he's scum. And his anti-town behavior abates after D1 anyways, and D1 behavior matters little.
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Vote Count 1-4
Robz888 (3): Captain_Frisk, O, ashersky
O (2): Jorbles, GeoLib
Morgrim7 (2): Morgrim7, Robz888
Not voting (2): Eevee, Cuzz
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, August 27, at noon forum time (EDT)
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Oh good, O, finally stopped lurking. And with a vengeance. Unvote.
I'm going to think about things for a bit before voting for anyone at this point. Don't want to make any rash decisions this early in the game.
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Btw this is already like the most productive day 1 ever, good job guys!
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Btw this is already like the most productive day 1 ever, good job guys!
you're welcome.
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
Now I'm confused what you're serious about. Have you actually just been reading along and not posting? If so, why?
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
Now I'm confused what you're serious about. Have you actually just been reading along and not posting? If so, why?
Q1) Yes, yes I have.
Q2) I wanted a dramatic entrance.
I'm serious about scumrobz though.
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
How quickly are we normally supposed to push someone to L-1?
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
How quickly are we normally supposed to push someone to L-1?
In my experience, much much slower than this.
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
How quickly are we normally supposed to push someone to L-1?
Not usually that quickly. I was hoping my lurking would get me to L-1 and I could come in fighting, but apparently that wasn't going to happen.
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
How quickly are we normally supposed to push someone to L-1?
Not usually that quickly. I was hoping my lurking would get me to L-1 and I could come in fighting, but apparently that wasn't going to happen.
But this is obviously not a good thing for the town, if you are town. Can you explain why you, O, a townie, would want do this?
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
How quickly are we normally supposed to push someone to L-1?
Not usually that quickly. I was hoping my lurking would get me to L-1 and I could come in fighting, but apparently that wasn't going to happen.
But this is obviously not a good thing for the town, if you are town. Can you explain why you, O, a townie, would want do this?
Could you explain why O, a Mafioso, would want to do this?
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You, too, Morgrim. I want you to get in here and be accountable for your shit. Town does not wan to kill town. If you are town, you voted for town (yourself). Why would you do this? Why do you want to hurt the town? (same with claiming VT)
I'm sick of letting anti-town behavior run amok.
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Because Morgrim is going to scumslip if he's scum. And his anti-town behavior abates after D1 anyways, and D1 behavior matters little.
How do you know he'll scumslip if he's scum? I thought you guys said he'd never been scum. Also, being superbly and vocally angry about your VT role still seems kind of scummy to me.
Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
How quickly are we normally supposed to push someone to L-1?
In my experience, much much slower than this.
Is this a smaller game than usual. Might that be it? Also, the odd number makes it easier to get to majority (we need 5/9 of people instead of 5/8)
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
How quickly are we normally supposed to push someone to L-1?
Not usually that quickly. I was hoping my lurking would get me to L-1 and I could come in fighting, but apparently that wasn't going to happen.
But this is obviously not a good thing for the town, if you are town. Can you explain why you, O, a townie, would want do this?
Could you explain why O, a Mafioso, would want to do this?
In this game, you must either be part of the town, or mafia. If you are engaging in behavior that hurts the town, that you KNOW hurts the town, I should be able to eliminate you as a potential townie. Therefore, you would be a mafioso.
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You, too, Morgrim. I want you to get in here and be accountable for your shit. Town does not wan to kill town. If you are town, you voted for town (yourself). Why would you do this? Why do you want to hurt the town? (same with claiming VT)
I'm sick of letting anti-town behavior run amok.
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Sorry. Humor is anti-town.
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Because Morgrim is going to scumslip if he's scum. And his anti-town behavior abates after D1 anyways, and D1 behavior matters little.
How do you know he'll scumslip if he's scum? I thought you guys said he'd never been scum. Also, being superbly and vocally angry about your VT role still seems kind of scummy to me.
Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
How quickly are we normally supposed to push someone to L-1?
In my experience, much much slower than this.
Is this a smaller game than usual. Might that be it? Also, the odd number makes it easier to get to majority (we need 5/9 of people instead of 5/8)
Games typically start with an odd number of people. This is the smallest size we've run, but it's a common size (MI, MII, MV, MVII, MX I believe)
PPE: Humor is pro-fun and not neccesarily anti-town.
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
How quickly are we normally supposed to push someone to L-1?
Not usually that quickly. I was hoping my lurking would get me to L-1 and I could come in fighting, but apparently that wasn't going to happen.
But this is obviously not a good thing for the town, if you are town. Can you explain why you, O, a townie, would want do this?
Could you explain why O, a Mafioso, would want to do this?
In this game, you must either be part of the town, or mafia. If you are engaging in behavior that hurts the town, that you KNOW hurts the town, I should be able to eliminate you as a potential townie. Therefore, you would be a mafioso.
Lol we've caught scum guys. I've trolled every game before and he's never been this desperate to use this argument.
My behavior is not clearly defined as anti-town or pro-town.
Case in point: in MVII you acted intentionally scummy as a PR. This is still "pro-town" behavior.
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Oh yeah. With all the content I forgot that my vote was still on O. It's fulfilled its sole purpose (getting him to post), so unvote
It didn't rather. All of your refusals to put anyone to L-1 without me forced me to post.
How quickly are we normally supposed to push someone to L-1?
Not usually that quickly. I was hoping my lurking would get me to L-1 and I could come in fighting, but apparently that wasn't going to happen.
But this is obviously not a good thing for the town, if you are town. Can you explain why you, O, a townie, would want do this?
Could you explain why O, a Mafioso, would want to do this?
In this game, you must either be part of the town, or mafia. If you are engaging in behavior that hurts the town, that you KNOW hurts the town, I should be able to eliminate you as a potential townie. Therefore, you would be a mafioso.
Lol we've caught scum guys. I've trolled every game before and he's never been this desperate to use this argument.
My behavior is not clearly defined as anti-town or pro-town.
Case in point: in MVII you acted intentionally scummy as a PR. This is still "pro-town" behavior.
Because this is the first game where I've thought the anti-town play was seriously out of hand. It's way more Morgrim, than you.
In MVII I assumed that I would be the first night kill unless I acted at least a little suspiciously, which was problematic for the town because of my PR. I was correct; if you check the mafia QT, they planned to kill me first night even before the game started, and in fact, they did so.
I'm not sure you've ever been nightkilled, certainly not night 1, so you don't have the same incentive to avoid that fate, as it isn't certain to befall you the way it was certain for me.
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I was NKed MV as scum.
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also, more importantly, why is the play seriously out of hand?
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also, more importantly, why is the play seriously out of hand?
Because Morgrim gave away his role immediately! And self-voted!
Also, I'd like to hear from Cuzz and Ashersky, the world's fastest wagon-joiners.
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I see nothing out of the ordinary for Morgrim.
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Also, I'd like to hear from Cuzz and Ashersky, the world's fastest wagon-joiners.
I've given my reasons for my vote for you, Robz888. I won't say you're blatantly scummy, just giving off the scumvibe, which is enough on D1 to garner my suspicion (and vote). I'd put Eevee in there with you, based on her extreme neutrality on every case so far. Strikes me as scum trying to stay on everyone's good side.
Frisk is sending out good vibes in limited action. I don't have a real read on the rest.
I know you roleclaimed VT earlier, but those can always be false, right?
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...
I know you roleclaimed VT earlier, but those can always be false, right?
I think we can pretty much ignore all VT role claims at this point, as valid points one way or the other. VT will claim it to be honest, power roles will claim it to avoid mafia night kills and mafia will claim it to fit in.
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Also, I'd like to hear from Cuzz and Ashersky, the world's fastest wagon-joiners.
I've given my reasons for my vote for you, Robz888. I won't say you're blatantly scummy, just giving off the scumvibe, which is enough on D1 to garner my suspicion (and vote). I'd put Eevee in there with you, based on her extreme neutrality on every case so far. Strikes me as scum trying to stay on everyone's good side.
Frisk is sending out good vibes in limited action. I don't have a real read on the rest.
I know you roleclaimed VT earlier, but those can always be false, right?
Eevee is male.
Are you asking if I am permitted by the rules of the game to lie? Yes, I am. I didn't. The mafia can now narrow down their list of kill candidates, and have a better chance of finding a PR.
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Also, I'd like to hear from Cuzz and Ashersky, the world's fastest wagon-joiners.
1st game jitters? It's easy to get caught up in the moment.
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...
I know you roleclaimed VT earlier, but those can always be false, right?
I think we can pretty much ignore all VT role claims at this point, as valid points one way or the other. VT will claim it to be honest, power roles will claim it to avoid mafia night kills and mafia will claim it to fit in.
This is mostly untrue.
True VT will obviously claim VT.
PR townies will probably not claim VT, although it has happened (TINAS did it in MI, but that's the exception). See MVI for examples of PR townies confessing their PR when they get to L-1.
Most PR claims are actually mafia trying to avoid lynch. See MII, MIII, MIV, and MVI for ample examples of this.
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Most PR claims are actually mafia trying to avoid lynch. See MII, MIII, MIV, and MVI for ample examples of this.
It happened in MI, too. In truth, most mafia claim PR before being lynched. Axxle didn't in MI (he couldn't, no PRs left). O didn't in MIV. EHalcyon didn't in MVI. That might be the sum total.
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...
I know you roleclaimed VT earlier, but those can always be false, right?
I think we can pretty much ignore all VT role claims at this point, as valid points one way or the other. VT will claim it to be honest, power roles will claim it to avoid mafia night kills and mafia will claim it to fit in.
This is mostly untrue.
True VT will obviously claim VT.
PR townies will probably not claim VT, although it has happened (TINAS did it in MI, but that's the exception). See MVI for examples of PR townies confessing their PR when they get to L-1.
Most PR claims are actually mafia trying to avoid lynch. See MII, MIII, MIV, and MVI for ample examples of this.
Well at L-1 things are different, but I still think most PRs would claim (or softclaim) Vanilla, especially on D1.
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...
I know you roleclaimed VT earlier, but those can always be false, right?
I think we can pretty much ignore all VT role claims at this point, as valid points one way or the other. VT will claim it to be honest, power roles will claim it to avoid mafia night kills and mafia will claim it to fit in.
This is mostly untrue.
True VT will obviously claim VT.
PR townies will probably not claim VT, although it has happened (TINAS did it in MI, but that's the exception). See MVI for examples of PR townies confessing their PR when they get to L-1.
Most PR claims are actually mafia trying to avoid lynch. See MII, MIII, MIV, and MVI for ample examples of this.
Well at L-1 things are different, but I still think most PRs would claim (or softclaim) Vanilla, especially on D1.
What they are supposed to do is simply not claim at all, unless they get to L-1.
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Most PR claims are actually mafia trying to avoid lynch. See MII, MIII, MIV, and MVI for ample examples of this.
It happened in MI, too. In truth, most mafia claim PR before being lynched. Axxle didn't in MI (he couldn't, no PRs left). O didn't in MIV. EHalcyon didn't in MVI. That might be the sum total.
MII no scum were lynched
MIII 2/3 scum claimed VT
MIV I didn't, glooble claimed roleblocker because gasp, he was mafia roleblocker.
MV no shit there are no VT's
MVI scum were NKed constantly, actually a pretty good ratio of VT claims from scum who were lynched. Also Theorel didn't I believe.
MVII no scum were lynched
MVIII, MIX, MX are ongoing and have had no scum be lynched.
Scum outed by a PR 95% of the time don't even have the option of claiming VT.
So are you ready to concede your point as completely false?
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Well at L-1 things are different, but I still think most PRs would claim (or softclaim) Vanilla, especially on D1.
What they are supposed to do is simply not claim at all, unless they get to L-1.
I will agree that is probably the best idea.
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Most PR claims are actually mafia trying to avoid lynch. See MII, MIII, MIV, and MVI for ample examples of this.
It happened in MI, too. In truth, most mafia claim PR before being lynched. Axxle didn't in MI (he couldn't, no PRs left). O didn't in MIV. EHalcyon didn't in MVI. That might be the sum total.
MII no scum were lynched
MIII 2/3 scum claimed VT
MIV I didn't, glooble claimed roleblocker because gasp, he was mafia roleblocker.
MV no shit there are no VT's
MVI scum were NKed constantly, actually a pretty good ratio of VT claims from scum who were lynched. Also Theorel didn't I believe.
MVII no scum were lynched
MVIII, MIX, MX are ongoing and have had no scum be lynched.
Scum outed by a PR 95% of the time don't even have the option of claiming VT.
So are you ready to concede your point as completely false?
I may have overstated. What I meant was, a lot of mafia have faked townie PR roles.
MI: Ozle
MII: Me
MIII: Don't remember, somebody did
MIV: Glooble, Dsell
MVI: Me, Frisk
A lot of mafia never need to claim anything, or get nightkilled. What I was saying to Jorbles is that VT claim isn't as common as he thinks.
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the point was that you were using the most mafia fakeclaim PR thing to attempt to give yourself more towniepoints. Not working.
SCUM D1 LYNCH FTW. O SO PRO.
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the point was that you were using the most mafia fakeclaim PR thing to attempt to give yourself more towniepoints. Not working.
SCUM D1 LYNCH FTW. O SO PRO.
Well, I didn't notice I was even doing that, because I'm not mafia.
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the point was that you were using the most mafia fakeclaim PR thing to attempt to give yourself more towniepoints. Not working.
Robzelda's point here, that "most mafia fakeclaim PR," could be a way to throw folks off his trail, as he (may have) fakeclaimed VT, instead of a PR.
It's like: "Look, we know most scum fakeclaim A, and I (fake)claimed B, so I must be okay."
Or in an attempt to explain himself and things, he's just dug himself into a hole.
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Robz is being scummy, like voting for me, but I'm not ready to vote for him yet. Rather, Unvote. I would also like to hear ashersky explain why he so quickly voted for me.
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Robz is being scummy, like voting for me, but I'm not ready to vote for him yet. Rather, Unvote. I would also like to hear ashersky explain why he so quickly voted for me.
Are you being IRL possessed every other day or something? Split personality maybe?
Oh and I think they all voted for you because they found your VT claim (that was followed by a selfvote) somewhat problematic.
Everyone, I don't think Morgrim is scum. Too inconsistent for that, he is just having fun with us (just like O was with his "force myself to L-1"-plan). My favorite lynch for today would actually be robz, even if it would suck to lose such a strong townie.
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Robz is being scummy, like voting for me, but I'm not ready to vote for him yet. Rather, Unvote. I would also like to hear ashersky explain why he so quickly voted for me.
Are you being IRL possessed every other day or something? Split personality maybe?
Oh and I think they all voted for you because they found your VT claim (that was followed by a selfvote) somewhat problematic.
Everyone, I don't think Morgrim is scum. Too inconsistent for that, he is just having fun with us (just like O was with his "force myself to L-1"-plan). My favorite lynch for today would actually be robz, even if it would suck to lose such a strong townie.
Oh, I was hoping you would talk sense to these people. Instead, this.
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Robz is being scummy, like voting for me, but I'm not ready to vote for him yet. Rather, Unvote. I would also like to hear ashersky explain why he so quickly voted for me.
Are you being IRL possessed every other day or something? Split personality maybe?
Oh and I think they all voted for you because they found your VT claim (that was followed by a selfvote) somewhat problematic.
Everyone, I don't think Morgrim is scum. Too inconsistent for that, he is just having fun with us (just like O was with his "force myself to L-1"-plan). My favorite lynch for today would actually be robz, even if it would suck to lose such a strong townie.
Oh, I was hoping you would talk sense to these people. Instead, this.
You should know better by now.
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Even if I dont think morg is playing scummy, taking one for the f.ds-mafiacommunity and policylynching him is not an out of the realm idea and I do see town-robz possibly proposing it (as well as scum robz ofc). But we should probably let the new guys enjoy him first, maybe punish him in some 20 player behemoth where day1 lynch is more random anyways.
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Even if I dont think morg is playing scummy, taking one for the f.ds-mafiacommunity and policylynching him is not an out of the realm idea and I do see town-robz possibly proposing it (as well as scum robz ofc). But we should probably let the new guys enjoy him first, maybe punish him in some 20 player behemoth where day1 lynch is more random anyways.
His insanity was more extreme this time. He did 2 extremely anti-town things right off the bat in his first post.
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Are you being IRL possessed every other day or something?
uhhh, no.
Split personality maybe?
nope.
They don't like my claim? Oh. Ok. Sorry, just you can get tired of being a VT every single GAME.
Even if I dont think morg is playing scummy, taking one for the f.ds-mafiacommunity and policylynching him is not an out of the realm idea and I do see town-robz possibly proposing it (as well as scum robz ofc). But we should probably let the new guys enjoy him first, maybe punish him in some 20 player behemoth where day1 lynch is more random anyways.
Ok, ok.
Even if I dont think morg is playing scummy, taking one for the f.ds-mafiacommunity and policylynching him is not an out of the realm idea and I do see town-robz possibly proposing it (as well as scum robz ofc). But we should probably let the new guys enjoy him first, maybe punish him in some 20 player behemoth where day1 lynch is more random anyways.
His insanity was more extreme this time. He did 2 extremely anti-town things right off the bat in his first post.
Claiming VT is anti-town? how?
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But I agree that we're being too noisy and not letting the newbies do enough stuff, so I apologize that. I'll try not to snap at everybody for awhile. The Morgrim thing, and then to a lesser extent the O thing, and of course my name rising to the top of it all, REALLY rubbed me the wrong way.
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Claiming VT is anti-town? how?
The mafia know not to Nightkill you. That can shoot someone else and have a better chance of hitting PR.
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Claiming VT is anti-town? how?
The mafia know not to Nightkill you. That can shoot someone else and have a better chance of hitting PR.
They can*
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Even if I dont think morg is playing scummy, taking one for the f.ds-mafiacommunity and policylynching him is not an out of the realm idea and I do see town-robz possibly proposing it (as well as scum robz ofc). But we should probably let the new guys enjoy him first, maybe punish him in some 20 player behemoth where day1 lynch is more random anyways.
His insanity was more extreme this time. He did 2 extremely anti-town things right off the bat in his first post.
He is showing improvement though, like this:
Robz is being scummy, like voting for me, but I'm not ready to vote for him yet. Rather, Unvote. I would also like to hear ashersky explain why he so quickly voted for me.
Have you ever heard of Morgrim not being ready to vote for someone before?
Also, inbetween saying "grmph....grrr... *frown*" and "I'm VT Vote: Me" he also tries to scumhunt some.
If I ever were to truly get behind a policy lynch, I think it would have to be really close to the deadline with no realistic wagon and/or a two scum team game. Losing most of the information from the wagon on top of losing a townie would hurt quite a bit here.
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But I agree that we're being too noisy and not letting the newbies do enough stuff, so I apologize that. I'll try not to snap at everybody for awhile. The Morgrim thing, and then to a lesser extent the O thing, and of course my name rising to the top of it all, REALLY rubbed me the wrong way.
I dont think you are being too noisy, quite the contrary, posting is your only hope of clearing your name in my eyes. (Here is where I'd suggest you to start compiling some ridiculous IIoA-posts, but, unlike the scout joke, this one is starting to get old.)
Oh and morgrim I meant no ill with those questions. It's just a little weird to go from selfvoting to starting to legitimately scumhunt and wonder why people wind up voting for you (see what I almost did there?).
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Claiming VT is anti-town? how?
The mafia know not to Nightkill you. That can shoot someone else and have a better chance of hitting PR.
I see.
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I think O made some pretty good points against Robz, but we've got time. I'm interested in hearing from Frisk on why he is voting for Robz. At the time of initial vote it looked like a random vote, but now that it's still sticking around I want a bit more explanation. Presumably some of the points people have made have resonated with him, but I want to read it from his typing hands.
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Vote Count 1-5
Robz888 (3): Captain_Frisk, O, ashersky
Morgrim7 (1): Robz888
Not voting (5): Eevee, Cuzz, Jorbles, Morgrim7, GeoLib
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, August 27, at noon forum time (EDT)
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Lets not put another vote on Robz until we are sure we want to lynch him. L-1 is dangerous.
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I think O made some pretty good points against Robz, but we've got time. I'm interested in hearing from Frisk on why he is voting for Robz. At the time of initial vote it looked like a random vote, but now that it's still sticking around I want a bit more explanation. Presumably some of the points people have made have resonated with him, but I want to read it from his typing hands.
Frisk said elsewhere he would be catching up with all his games and trying to post something substantive tonight, so you might get your wish soon.
And morgrim is right, especially so because he isn't voting yet himself.
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Lets not put another vote on Robz until we are sure we want to lynch him. L-1 is dangerous.
How dare you.
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Yeah - Unvote
I'm not up to speed in this game - and my vote was indeed totally random. I'm still making my rounds - and I may get summoned away. Might not get to this game tonight.
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Yeah - Unvote
I'm not up to speed in this game - and my vote was indeed totally random. I'm still making my rounds - and I may get summoned away. Might not get to this game tonight.
keep the wagon alive, people
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Yeah - Unvote
I'm not up to speed in this game - and my vote was indeed totally random. I'm still making my rounds - and I may get summoned away. Might not get to this game tonight.
keep the wagon alive, people
Why don't you help by voting for him, Morgrim?
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The case for a Morgrim Policy-Lynch as a last resort:
I think that we should keep scumhunting, but that if we don't get anywhere we should policy-lynch Morgrim. The anti-town behavior right off the bat was pretty appalling. I still don't buy O's reasoning that
Morgrim is going to scumslip if he's scum.
You guys have all said that Morgrim hasn't played scum before, so how could you know what scumgrim (morscum?) would do? Best case scenario he's scum relying on his old weird-playstyle meta to keep him alive (I'd say odds are about the same as they are for a random person. Maybe a little better). Worst case scenario, he's a PR for some reason lying and claiming VT (odds of this seem low, but you never can tell with Morgrim, I guess). Most likely he's a VT playing very anti-town. As we are most likely going to lynch a VT anyway (both probability and Eevee's grim analysis of f.ds mafia's success in the past suggest this), might as well lynch one who's playing anti-town.
All this being said, I agree with Eevee that we should hold off on a policy-lynch until we're sure we can't find more probable scum. I just think we should hold a Morgrim lynch as a reserve.
Anyway. Back to scumhunting!
I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.
I'd be interested to hear Frisk's opinion on things, as all I've gleaned from his posts so far is that he agrees that Morgrim's behavior is anti-town. Looks like we might not get this tonight though.
Anyone else got some reads they'd like to share? Jorbles, whom do you think is scum? Cuzz, what about you?
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I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.
If I'm scum bussing scum (protip: I'm not) then shut up and take your free scumkill in Robz.
If I'm scum tunneling this hard on a townie.. well that's rather terrible scum play.
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I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.
If I'm scum bussing scum (protip: I'm not) then shut up and take your free scumkill in Robz.
If I'm scum tunneling this hard on a townie.. well that's rather terrible scum play.
I didn't mean you were "scum bussing scum," that seems like a terrible scum play D1. I just meant it's odd to me that you can be so sure about a Robz lynch with only the evidence we've got. Not that it's bad evidence. I just don't see how you're so sure.
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I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.
If I'm scum bussing scum (protip: I'm not) then shut up and take your free scumkill in Robz.
If I'm scum tunneling this hard on a townie.. well that's rather terrible scum play.
I didn't mean you were "scum bussing scum," that seems like a terrible scum play D1. I just meant it's odd to me that you can be so sure about a Robz lynch with only the evidence we've got. Not that it's bad evidence. I just don't see how you're so sure.
I've played enough games with Robz.
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I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.
If I'm scum bussing scum (protip: I'm not) then shut up and take your free scumkill in Robz.
If I'm scum tunneling this hard on a townie.. well that's rather terrible scum play.
Why would that be such a terrible play? Certainly scum want townies to get lynched, right? Do you just mean that this would be such an obvious scum move that only a great fool would play as such?
I feel like the problem with a lot of these arguments is that everyone knows how the game works, and everyone can lie. Scum or not, everyone's motivation at the moment is not to get lynched. So everyone tries to argue that they're not scum. If it's a bogus argument, well that's suspicious. If it's a convincing argument, maybe it'll make people believe you, but then aha, that's exactly the kind of argument scum would want to make at this stage of the game, so that's also suspicious.
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Morgrim's likely pre-game convo with scumbuddy:
Morgrim: "I'm going to be batshit insane right from the beginning, and get away with the Morgrim Insanity Defense all game! As long as I stay consistent with all the games where I was town, I won't be suspected! After all, Robz always says that crazy Morgrim is town Morgrim." Then he overplayed things by being too crazy. That wasn't crazy Morgrim, that was Morgrim trying to act like crazy Morgrim.
Now, did O swoop in to dramatically rescue his scumbuddy? Sure looks like that to me.
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Anyone else got some reads they'd like to share? Jorbles, whom do you think is scum? Cuzz, what about you?
I don't have super original opinions right now, but that's because we don't really have a lot to go on, at this point. Robz's rush for a Morgrim lynch does strike me as scummy, but not without merit. (Morgrim's rush into the game made a lynch on him seem like a great idea.) His call for lynching a noob, get's my hackles up, but that might just be because I am one. His early game strat does seem to imply that he's trying to throw a bunch of lynch possibilities out there and see if any of them stick.
I still don't like O's early game lurking, but his analysis of Robz's play does seem to be the best thing we have to go on at this point in the game. And the points he makes are good ones. I don't fault him for his current read on Robz.
Morgrim's play seemed crazy when he showed up, but he has since calmed down. I don't know, I could support a policy lynch on him if we get close to deadline if we get deadlocked, but at this point I'd like to observe him for a longer portion of the game. Robz's most recent point of the preplanned Morgrim Insanity Defense could be plausible, but seems speculative at this point. I agree that his playstyle could just be a meta game thing to mask his scumminess, but I have no reason to think so yet.
Geolib seems to be playing pretty cautiously, which I like. Slight town vibe here, but I guess it could be a good mask.
Ditto for Eevee.
Captain_Frisk hasn't been around as much as I'd like a player to be, but this isn't inherently scummy. He is playing multiple games, and admits he is behind on all of them. This could be a great meta strategy if he were scum in all of them, but the odds of that are small. Basically I've got no read on him at this point.
ashersky has been willing to leap onto numerous wagons, which could be scummy or could just be how ash plays. Very slight scum read here, but I'm not even close to willing to vote for ash.
Cuzz has also been willing to leap onto wagons, but expressed regret and unvoted when a call for more thought was made. This strikes me as more inexperience than scum play.
So that's what I think of everyone at this point in the game.
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Morgrim's likely pre-game convo with scumbuddy:
Morgrim: "I'm going to be batshit insane right from the beginning, and get away with the Morgrim Insanity Defense all game! As long as I stay consistent with all the games where I was town, I won't be suspected! After all, Robz always says that crazy Morgrim is town Morgrim." Then he overplayed things by being too crazy. That wasn't crazy Morgrim, that was Morgrim trying to act like crazy Morgrim.
Now, did O swoop in to dramatically rescue his scumbuddy? Sure looks like that to me.
Your Morgrim analysis was basically the same thing I was thinking. The whole "hmph...grrrr... >:(" thing seemed a little forced, like Morgrim was acting Morgrim.
On the other hand, your accusation of O is sort of OMGUS...
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Morgrim playing like this every time is just terrible terrible meta btw. Just imagine if he were to get a town power role in the next game..
Morgrim, I think you should try to be a little less erratic in your next game to avoid that unfortunate problem. :)
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What if he's just been playing this meta every game just so that when he does draw scum he can still act however he wants and survive...? :o
Morgrim: King of Meta-gaming
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What if he's just been playing this meta every game just so that when he does draw scum he can still act however he wants and survive...? :o
Morgrim: King of Meta-gaming
a) he has never survived
b) what if he got a town power role. dying early as one is bad, having to claim it early to survive is bad.
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What if he's just been playing this meta every game just so that when he does draw scum he can still act however he wants and survive...? :o
Morgrim: King of Meta-gaming
a) he has never survived
b) what if he got a town power role. dying early as one is bad, having to claim it early to survive is bad.
Well so much for that theory. Also, I was about 70% joking
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Now, did O swoop in to dramatically rescue his scumbuddy? Sure looks like that to me.
I can create a convincing argument on why it's not O/Morgrim:
1) If there was an O/Morgrim scumteam, there are two possibilities for an ending:
a) we instawin
b) we asplode in a giant ball of fire and bus ourselves to oblivion.
neither of these actually involve any effort from the town. It's more strategic to make choices assuming me/morgrim aren't scum, then.
(but NO, I am not scum and Morgrim probably isn't either. But you know that already).
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ITT, Robz seeing scumpairs on day 1.
I know you are frustrated, but "i am not scum because those two are" is not a very good defense.
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ITT, Robz seeing scumpairs on day 1.
I know you are frustrated, but "i am not scum because those two are" is not a very good defense.
I'm not defending myself; the case against me is absurd.
I have explained, repeatedly, why Morgrim's insanity is scummy in this game, whereas it wasn't in other games.
One plausible explanation for O's behavior is that he is a scumbuddy. Of course it would surprise me if he actually was. You think I've forgotten how unlikely it is to actually find mafia, let alone two?
If we lynch Morgrim, and he is scum, we'll look at O next.
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ITT, Robz seeing scumpairs on day 1.
I know you are frustrated, but "i am not scum because those two are" is not a very good defense.
I'm not defending myself; the case against me is absurd.
I have explained, repeatedly, why Morgrim's insanity is scummy in this game, whereas it wasn't in other games.
One plausible explanation for O's behavior is that he is a scumbuddy. Of course it would surprise me if he actually was. You think I've forgotten how unlikely it is to actually find mafia, let alone two?
If we lynch Morgrim, and he is scum, we'll look at O next.
OK, we'll consider that iff you flip town.
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Anyone else got some reads they'd like to share? Jorbles, whom do you think is scum? Cuzz, what about you?
I don't have super original opinions right now, but that's because we don't really have a lot to go on, at this point. Robz's rush for a Morgrim lynch does strike me as scummy, but not without merit. (Morgrim's rush into the game made a lynch on him seem like a great idea.) His call for lynching a noob, get's my hackles up, but that might just be because I am one. His early game strat does seem to imply that he's trying to throw a bunch of lynch possibilities out there and see if any of them stick.
I still don't like O's early game lurking, but his analysis of Robz's play does seem to be the best thing we have to go on at this point in the game. And the points he makes are good ones. I don't fault him for his current read on Robz.
Morgrim's play seemed crazy when he showed up, but he has since calmed down. I don't know, I could support a policy lynch on him if we get close to deadline if we get deadlocked, but at this point I'd like to observe him for a longer portion of the game. Robz's most recent point of the preplanned Morgrim Insanity Defense could be plausible, but seems speculative at this point. I agree that his playstyle could just be a meta game thing to mask his scumminess, but I have no reason to think so yet.
Geolib seems to be playing pretty cautiously, which I like. Slight town vibe here, but I guess it could be a good mask.
Ditto for Eevee.
Captain_Frisk hasn't been around as much as I'd like a player to be, but this isn't inherently scummy. He is playing multiple games, and admits he is behind on all of them. This could be a great meta strategy if he were scum in all of them, but the odds of that are small. Basically I've got no read on him at this point.
ashersky has been willing to leap onto numerous wagons, which could be scummy or could just be how ash plays. Very slight scum read here, but I'm not even close to willing to vote for ash.
Cuzz has also been willing to leap onto wagons, but expressed regret and unvoted when a call for more thought was made. This strikes me as more inexperience than scum play.
So that's what I think of everyone at this point in the game.
I can get on board with most of these reads. I'll mention where I differ, based on what little we have to go on so far.
Robz888: Still get the slightly scummy vibe, for previously mentioned issues. Then again, reading some of his non-game posts on d.fs make me think maybe it's just his writing style. Also, unvote.
I don't see an O/Morgrim duo at the moment, and Robz toss there could be indicative. O reads slightly scummy, though, just based on forcefulness. Morgrim is just crazy, so I think it's just too difficult to nail down his true intent.
Agree on Frisk, Geolib, and Cuzz for now, all strike me as good folk. Jorbles reads non-scum for now.
I think Eevee is the one flying under the radar, which is always suspect. What does pointing the FOS do? Anything?
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for the record Robz reaction to the case has made me so convinced that I will not be voting for any non-robz candidate for lynch for, idk, the rest of the game?
until
a) Robz dies
b) Robz is cleared by a cop/other scum is found by a cop
c) I die.
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FoS does nothing. Just a way to show you suspect someone without actually casting a vote. I personally dont think it's very effective, votes build pressure which is good, fos is just too mild.
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As I've said before, I agree with Robz that this seems like Morgrim playing Morgrim, but then again I don't have any direct experience with Morgrim in the past, so I'd be interested to hear other veteran's take. Is this Morgrim-as-usual or something else? Frisk?
Looks like Eevee already gave his opinion:
Everyone, I don't think Morgrim is scum. Too inconsistent for that, he is just having fun with us (just like O was with his "force myself to L-1"-plan).
Robz's defense does seem scummy, but O's declaration that he won't vote for anyone else seems a little ridiculous. How on earth can you be so sure? I'd buy a Robz scum, but I'd also buy a frustrated Robz VT. The scum-pair hunting was pretty ridiculous though... What's the probability of finding that. 1 in 36? At this point I wouldn't be adverse to a Robz lynch, but I'm not sold.
I was going to agree with Ashersky on Eevee "flying under the radar," but then I actually reread some of his posts and I think he's been contributing well though staying back a bit. Maybe this is scummy or maybe he's just letting newbies have a chance (if it's the latter, thanks!)
As for Fos, I think I'm the only one who's used it so far (other than the Fos on Galzria... :))). I think it can be useful just to indicate you suspect someone when people are skimming. So me putting FoS makes it easier for someone to go "Aha! This is where GeoLib say Morgrim seems suspicious." Probably not that useful, but acronyms are fun!
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seriously do you guys expect a better case to magically appear D1.
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seriously do you guys expect a better case to magically appear D1.
Not really, but I expect that everyone will change their reads after D1 and not make a game-long vote on someone. I also think that we have plenty of time to mull things over and want to hear Frisk's take
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I hope I do get lynched. The expression on your faces will be well worth it.
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I hope I do get lynched. The expression on your faces will be well worth it.
Arite, this is some anti-town stuff right here.
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seriously do you guys expect a better case to magically appear D1.
Not really, but I expect that everyone will change their reads after D1 and not make a game-long vote on someone. I also think that we have plenty of time to mull things over and want to hear Frisk's take
+1, well said.
Geo and ashersky, what exactly do you mean by me "staying back"?
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seriously do you guys expect a better case to magically appear D1.
Not really, but I expect that everyone will change their reads after D1 and not make a game-long vote on someone. I also think that we have plenty of time to mull things over and want to hear Frisk's take
+1, well said.
Geo and ashersky, what exactly do you mean by me "staying back"?
Meh. As I said, I think that after reading your posts that it wasn't really true. It just seemed like you hadn't come out with any really forceful opinions, which actually seems more protown than some of the wagon joining we've seen. Come to think of it, that seems very similar to how I've been playing...
Oh, and thanks :)
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being hesitant won't look protown after Robz flips scum, FYI.
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seriously do you guys expect a better case to magically appear D1.
Not really, but I expect that everyone will change their reads after D1 and not make a game-long vote on someone. I also think that we have plenty of time to mull things over and want to hear Frisk's take
+1, well said.
Geo and ashersky, what exactly do you mean by me "staying back"?
I agree that we probably won't get a better candidate, but I also want everyone to weigh in before we go ahead with the lynch.
I'm also curious as to what ashersky means by Eevee flying under the radar. I haven't noticed it, but maybe I'm just missing something/maybe it's working?
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I hope I do get lynched. The expression on your faces will be well worth it.
And what would that expression be...? You've claimed VT, so assuming you're telling the truth we'd go "Damn! Another non-scum lynch D1, but at least we didn't lynch a PR." Then we'd analyze the wagon. I understand you're frustrated (honestly, O is starting to frustrate me too), but hoping for your own lynch if you're town is anti-town. That's a Morgrim move.
being hesitant won't look protown after Robz flips scum, FYI.
But we don't know he's scum! Being cautious (or hesitant, as you put it) is pro-town. It would be anti-town to rush into a wagon. Now if we were a few days from deadline, things would be different, but you came out accusing Robz in your first post 28 hours after game start and are acting surprised that we didn't insta-lynch him.
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I hope I do get lynched. The expression on your faces will be well worth it.
And what would that expression be...? You've claimed VT, so assuming you're telling the truth we'd go "Damn! Another non-scum lynch D1, but at least we didn't lynch a PR." Then we'd analyze the wagon. I understand you're frustrated (honestly, O is starting to frustrate me too), but hoping for your own lynch if you're town is anti-town. That's a Morgrim move.
being hesitant won't look protown after Robz flips scum, FYI.
But we don't know he's scum! Being cautious (or hesitant, as you put it) is pro-town. It would be anti-town to rush into a wagon. Now if we were a few days from deadline, things would be different, but you came out accusing Robz in your first post 28 hours after game start and are acting surprised that we didn't insta-lynch him.
I mean, of course you're right. I don't actually hope I get lynched.
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My style of posting tends to be.. agreeing and nice (sort of like my avatar, I'm all fluffy guys). This has happened in the past, I've been called "scummy" for it numerous times come to think of it (in games where I've been town). If you read my posts in any other game, I'm sure you'll notice I'm not being any different here.
And the fact to the matter is, I've been active and vocal, said reasonable things (imo) and touched all the relevant issues. Definitely not flying under the radar on purpose!
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being hesitant won't look protown after Robz flips scum, FYI.
But we don't know he's scum! Being cautious (or hesitant, as you put it) is pro-town. It would be anti-town to rush into a wagon. Now if we were a few days from deadline, things would be different, but you came out accusing Robz in your first post 28 hours after game start and are acting surprised that we didn't insta-lynch him.
And saying what O said only promotes survivalist tendencies amongst town, which can be confused with scum moves, and makes it more difficult to analyze town vs scum moves later on. We don't all need to make it to the end to win, but we should make careful decisions. If Robz is going to flip scum, he'll still flip scum if we lynch him today or if we lynch him right before deadline. If he flips town than it'll be good for us to delay so we have more material to analyze on d2.
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Talk is good, but eventually we do have to put some votes in. Right now I feel comfortable voting and I Vote: Robz again (votes => pressure => good, right Eevee?).
O has listed some good reasons. A few more:
Robz basically behaved almost exactly as Morgrim did with his "the looks on your faces" comment. Not a self-vote exactly, but still. Robz demanded a policy lynch on Morgrim for similar behavior.
He suggested lynching based on experience. I just have a hard time imagining a townie really supporting this idea.
Both his accusations and defensive statements seem way over the top to me. More subjective, sure, but still. I'm just getting a real scummy vibe.
Pile the votes on or don't, either way I just want to get some serious discussion going on this. Otherwise we'll be in the exact same place at the deadline.
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Robz basically behaved almost exactly as Morgrim did with his "the looks on your faces" comment. Not a self-vote exactly, but still. Robz demanded a policy lynch on Morgrim for similar behavior.
He suggested lynching based on experience. I just have a hard time imagining a townie really supporting this idea.
You misunderstand why I am voting for Morgrim. I am not voting him for policy reasons. Policy reasons are also valid against Morgrim, but I am voting him because he is trying to feign his usual townie craziness. He is in fact acting substantially MORE crazy than usual. So crazy, it's staged. He basically did the two most anti-town things he could do, and he did them immediately in his first vote. It's over the top crazy, because he's trying ACT crazy. He thought me, maybe Frisk, O and Eevee would overlook him for that reason. This is why I am voting for him. I believe he is scum. O's strange rescue of him has also made O suspicious to me.
As to lynching based on experience, in MVII, I feel like a big part of the problem was that the first 3 deaths (lynches and Nkills) were the 3 smartest and most experienced players. Didn't give the town much of a chance.
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On the topic of Eevee under the radar, I think it's just felt like you've been less vocal than others, but maybe it's just others being more vocal than you, if that makes any sense. I think you've had some posts where you've reined in the voting, and maybe that was a guiding hand on a wayward ship, or it was a gentle push in a direction that helps scum...or none of the above. I'm nowhere near voting for Eevee, though, just not completely convinced of his intentions. Which I think is how we probably all should be about everyone, at the very least.
I can see reasons for voting for both Robz and Morgrim at this point, and they seem like the leading candidates for a D1 lynch. Plenty of time for that to change though. O seems to have drawn Robz ire, but no one else's; is that suspect?
@all on FOS explanation -- thanks.
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Strange, I would have guessed I have posted more than almost anyone here. Certainly 10 times more than Frisk or Morgrim. How do people do post counts? Just going through every person in print mode?
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Vote Count 1-6
Robz888 (2): O, Cuzz
Morgrim7 (1): Robz888
Not voting (6): Eevee, Jorbles, Morgrim7, GeoLib, Captain_Frisk, ashersky
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, August 27, at noon forum time (EDT)
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Strange, I would have guessed I have posted more than almost anyone here. Certainly 10 times more than Frisk or Morgrim. How do people do post counts? Just going through every person in print mode?
Thats what I do. I hit All and search for "username: Captain_Frisk"
FOS: O for making that a giant pain in the ass with Ozle in the game. For theorel - I search for Pearl Diver - because he doesn't have an isoname, but nobody else has 11 posts.
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All right - caught up!
First - we're only 11-12 pages in. Not that far yet - there's no need to rush - especially since we have until Monday.
Regarding Morgrim - this is a new low - even for Morgrim. We've discussed the merits of VT claims before - I think Morgrim was in at least one of those games. Yes - at the start of the game we all have an implied VT roleclaim (as nobody would claim power role immediately) - but actually saying that he's sick of being VT with 0 pressure - this is a new low.
So - screw morgrim for his continued anti-town behavior. Guys - this is the dude who self hammered himself as town - denying the town information. Personally - I'm 100% in favor of policy morgrim lynches if no other opportunities exist. If we were at a deadline - and we didn't have any candidates - I'd hammer the CRAP out of him.
The RobZ thing though is different - he's pushing the wagon early in the day. There's no reason to push it this early. Call out the scummy behavior - suggest that he's a viable Day 1 lynch - and move on to some real scum hunting. If you don't find anyone - its Morgrim time.
Vote: RobZ - I'll put my vote back on him for real this time.
That said - i have higher than normal levels of O-suspicion. (For the newbs - O has a habit of basically acting like a dick) I have a personal reservation about his level of confidence in Robz's scummitude - but the core of the argument is solidish. I'm in favor of policy lynching Morgrim - but not this aggressively before we've discussed other candidates.
Some other posts that stood out during review:
I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.
If I'm scum bussing scum (protip: I'm not) then shut up and take your free scumkill in Robz.
If I'm scum tunneling this hard on a townie.. well that's rather terrible scum play.
I agree you wouldn't bus your scumbuddy this agressively day 1, but wouldn't put it past you to play balls out scumbag.
...
I know you roleclaimed VT earlier, but those can always be false, right?
I think we can pretty much ignore all VT role claims at this point, as valid points one way or the other. VT will claim it to be honest, power roles will claim it to avoid mafia night kills and mafia will claim it to fit in.
You got chastised for this - and rightfully so. There's a big difference between the implied VT roleclaim, and explicitly announcing to everyone that you are VT - it makes it more likely that scum will kill power roles.
Strange, I would have guessed I have posted more than almost anyone here. Certainly 10 times more than Frisk or Morgrim. How do people do post counts? Just going through every person in print mode?
You have 43 posts - I have 12. Sure I'm on the slow side this game, but 10 times! Come one!
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Ignoring the sign up phase, I still have 42 posts out of 250 in this whole game. Thats like 17% of posts, in a 9 person town (ignoring mod posts). This has been an exceptionally fast paced day 1 (yay for excited new players keeping the game moving with constant posting), so I definitely don't blame Frisk for only chiming in once a page, but saying I'm not participating enough is simply not true. Unless you think my posts are lacking content obviously, but in that case I'd be happy to answer direct questions / give my take on any issue anyone wants me to comment on.
/rant
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So I basically agree with everything Frisk just said. That's all for now
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I'm not gonna put Robz at L-1, though I'd love to.
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I'm not gonna put Robz at L-1, though I'd love to.
why not :'(
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I'm not gonna put Robz at L-1, though I'd love to.
why not :'(
It is dangerous. But then again....
why not. Vote: Robz
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I'm not gonna put Robz at L-1, though I'd love to.
why not :'(
It is dangerous. But then again....
why not. Vote: Robz
[/quote
Let me guess. Danger is your middle name?
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Fuqqd up be the quote, here we go:
I'm not gonna put Robz at L-1, though I'd love to.
why not :'(
It is dangerous. But then again....
why not. Vote: Robz
Let me guess. Danger is your middle name?
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robz, you can quickhammer yourself now if you want to.
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I'm not gonna put Robz at L-1, though I'd love to.
why not :'(
It is dangerous. But then again....
why not. Vote: Robz
Let me guess. Danger is your middle name?
Uhhh.... no? But I'm ok with a Robz lynch. BTW, fxd4u.
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Robz, hammer! That would be so Morgrim-like!!!
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Haha. No.
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Haha. No.
:'( :'( :'(I would if I were you.
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But it will be more helpful for the town if another player has to go on record as having lynched me, a townie.
Anyway, if these are my last words, you all know what I think about Morgrim and O. Frisk and Eevee have disappointed me. Watch out for the newbies particularly the ones who voted me so quickly, Cuzz and ashersky. Jorbles and GeoLib seem less scummy, so they're probably the mafia, for all I know.
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I'm not gonna put Robz at L-1, though I'd love to.
why not :'(
Because morgrim only hammers!
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But it will be more helpful for the town if another player has to go on record as having lynched me, a townie.
Anyway, if these are my last words, you all know what I think about Morgrim and O. Frisk and Eevee have disappointed me. Watch out for the newbies particularly the ones who voted me so quickly, Cuzz and ashersky. Jorbles and GeoLib seem less scummy, so they're probably the mafia, for all I know.
Is this a claim of VT - or just claiming town alignment?
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But it will be more helpful for the town if another player has to go on record as having lynched me, a townie.
Anyway, if these are my last words, you all know what I think about Morgrim and O. Frisk and Eevee have disappointed me. Watch out for the newbies particularly the ones who voted me so quickly, Cuzz and ashersky. Jorbles and GeoLib seem less scummy, so they're probably the mafia, for all I know.
Is this a claim of VT - or just claiming town alignment?
I already claimed VT, I think. I claim VT.
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But it will be more helpful for the town if another player has to go on record as having lynched me, a townie.
Anyway, if these are my last words, you all know what I think about Morgrim and O. Frisk and Eevee have disappointed me. Watch out for the newbies particularly the ones who voted me so quickly, Cuzz and ashersky. Jorbles and GeoLib seem less scummy, so they're probably the mafia, for all I know.
Is this a claim of VT - or just claiming town alignment?
I already claimed VT, I think. I claim VT.
Would you like me to go find the relevant posts from M7 that suggest that a VT lynch without forcing any other claims is the best that town can do on D1?
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Just a reminder guys - we have 5 days. Before anyone hammers, discuss it first. Don't be like morgrim.
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Your mod hasn't forgotten you, but he is tired. So you won't get a vote count until morning. Sorry!
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Vote Count 1-7
Robz888 (4): O, Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7
Morgrim7 (1): Robz888
Not voting (4): Eevee, Jorbles, GeoLib, ashersky
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, August 27, at noon forum time (EDT)
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Ignoring the sign up phase, I still have 42 posts out of 250 in this whole game. Thats like 17% of posts, in a 9 person town (ignoring mod posts). This has been an exceptionally fast paced day 1 (yay for excited new players keeping the game moving with constant posting), so I definitely don't blame Frisk for only chiming in once a page, but saying I'm not participating enough is simply not true. Unless you think my posts are lacking content obviously, but in that case I'd be happy to answer direct questions / give my take on any issue anyone wants me to comment on.
/rant
Leave it to Dominion players to go to the numbers...
By under the radar, I didn't mean you were lurking--probably a bad choice of metaphor. I just meant all your posts seem to not say anything. Now, I'm sure we can go back and quote posts where you did give opinions, but we're talking in murky feelings and impressions, right?
I would ask, Eevee, for your argument for and against you casting the hammer vote on Robz, if I may.
(Side note, Robz has claimed VT, which he himself said was an anti-town move on D1 in the first place. Doesn't that mean something?)
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(Side note, Robz has claimed VT, which he himself said was an anti-town move on D1 in the first place. Doesn't that mean something?)
He claimed VT at L-1. Morgrim claimed it at L-4 with the only vote on him being himself... Or wait, did he actually claim before he voted (checks back)
Hi, guys, this is Morgrim. I am showing up to post a vote, and if you make a wagon on me I will selfhammer and turn up VT. BTW, I am a VT. >:(>:(>:(>:(>:(>:(
Yeah. So actually he revealed at L-5...
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Oh, and what's the rule on talking about currently running games? Can I say "person Y is behaving like X in game Z, and therefore I infer something about their play style and what it means for our game (which I suppose is actually game X)"
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I am not a moderator here, but general rule in all games so far was "no talking about open, running games. Only closed ones."
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I am not a moderator here, but general rule in all games so far was "no talking about open, running games. Only closed ones."
And closed means ended... Not closed for night...
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I am not a moderator here, but general rule in all games so far was "no talking about open, running games. Only closed ones."
And closed means ended... Not closed for night...
Correct. No discussion of games that have not yet ended.
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I would ask, Eevee, for your argument for and against you casting the hammer vote on Robz, if I may.
For:
Claimed VT, nonexistent risk of lynching a town power role
Has played somewhat scummy (YMMV)
My gut isnt screaming "HE IS TOWN" when I read his defense
If we let him live, we will likely be facing the same dilemma tomorrow as some of us (hint: O) will try to push his lynch again. He could be investigated though, if we have a cop. Also scum wont kill him at night, and either way this is an informational wagon.
Against:
Could be a real asset to town (if town)
The scumminess is actually nothing concrete (but then againt, from a robz-level player it never is day 1)
I definitely thinking no one should rush to hammer him, no matter how good of a lynch you think he would be. We are in no hurry, maybe someone slips and gives us a stronger scum (or town) read, talking is generally very good for town. If the conversation dies, then I dont mind an early hammer. Myself.. I will do it maybe, I dont have any better candidates yet at least. But I definitely don't agree with O's level of certainty, the case is good but it's not the slam dunk he makes it to be. Whether scum O would be bold enough to go after Robz with such certainty is just a huge wifom, so I dont think Robz flipping town would actually even reflect that badly on O. If Robz is mafia, O is 99% town though.
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(Side note, Robz has claimed VT, which he himself said was an anti-town move on D1 in the first place. Doesn't that mean something?)
This misrepresents my views. It's anti-town to role claim anything on Day 1, unless you are in danger of being lynch. Then, the correct move IS to claim.
My views on claiming are logical. In this setup, we don't want to help the mafia know which people to shoot at. Saying you are VT helps the mafia know who to shoot at, because they won't shoot at you. For instance, the mafia will probably not kill Morgrim, because he has said he is not a Cop, Doctor, or Jailkeeper. This increases the odds that mafia will kill the Cop, Doctor, or Jailkeeper. Thus, an anti-town move.
But when you are about to be lynched, you do claim. This is to prevent us from lynching the Cop, Doctor, or Jailkeeper. Of course it's still bad to out a power role, but it's better to out a power role than to lynch one outright. Because I am not a power role, but a VT, my claim means that you can safely lynch me without lynching a power role (a good thing), and if you do lynch me, the mafia can't shoot me anyway, so we haven't given them an extra VT to ignore.
However, it's bad to lynch town. So I still must urge that we lynch anyone but me, because I know myself to be town. However, if you are convinced that I have a better chance of being scum than anyone else, you should conclude that I am the correct lynch. I should think it obvious that I am not scum, but I must be mistaken, since everyone suspects me.
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Regardless of Robz alignment, everything he says above is 100% true.
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Regardless of Robz alignment, everything he says above is 100% true.
Wait wait wait. This is not at all consistent with your views in M7. You fought to prevent me (VT) from being lynched. If you agree with RZ - you should have hammered my ass.
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Regardless of Robz alignment, everything he says above is 100% true.
Wait wait wait. This is not at all consistent with your views in M7. You fought to prevent me (VT) from being lynched. If you agree with RZ - you should have hammered my ass.
Last chapter of Robz's post:
However, it's bad to lynch town. So I still must urge that we lynch anyone but me, because I know myself to be town. However, if you are convinced that I have a better chance of being scum than anyone else, you should conclude that I am the correct lynch. I should think it obvious that I am not scum, but I must be mistaken, since everyone suspects me.
In that game, I thought you had a higher chance of being TOWN than any of the others. Here, I dont have any such feelings, I actually quite agree with O's case on Robz. How am I inconsistent?
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RobZ is arguing that lynching VT is a good thing. You said everything he said is 100% true.
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RobZ is arguing that lynching VT is a good thing. You said everything he said is 100% true.
It's not the best thing. The best thing is lynching mafia. It's debatable whether it's preferably to lynching no one. I think it's better than lynching no one if you think the person has an above average chance of being scum. Otherwise, a little worse. But yes, it's much better than lynching or outing a power role.
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RobZ is arguing that lynching VT is a good thing. You said everything he said is 100% true.
Good thing compared to lynching the doctor or the cop. Bad thing compared to lynching a mafia member.
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Now we sound like the Hinterlands flavor graf (always my favorite).
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I really don't think this is the place to be discussing Dominion.
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I would ask, Eevee, for your argument for and against you casting the hammer vote on Robz, if I may.
For:
Claimed VT, nonexistent risk of lynching a town power role
Has played somewhat scummy (YMMV)
My gut isnt screaming "HE IS TOWN" when I read his defense
If we let him live, we will likely be facing the same dilemma tomorrow as some of us (hint: O) will try to push his lynch again. He could be investigated though, if we have a cop. Also scum wont kill him at night, and either way this is an informational wagon.
There's only a 50% chance that we do have a Cop, but would it be the best use of a Cop's investigation to investigate a potentially surviving Robz? We wouldn't want the Cop to come out on D2 just to clear Robz would we? I guess if they investigate and prove that he is mafia than it might be worth it, but then who would we lynch now?
Against:
Could be a real asset to town (if town)
The scumminess is actually nothing concrete (but then againt, from a robz-level player it never is day 1)
I definitely thinking no one should rush to hammer him, no matter how good of a lynch you think he would be. We are in no hurry, maybe someone slips and gives us a stronger scum (or town) read, talking is generally very good for town. If the conversation dies, then I dont mind an early hammer. Myself.. I will do it maybe, I dont have any better candidates yet at least. But I definitely don't agree with O's level of certainty, the case is good but it's not the slam dunk he makes it to be. Whether scum O would be bold enough to go after Robz with such certainty is just a huge wifom, so I dont think Robz flipping town would actually even reflect that badly on O. If Robz is mafia, O is 99% town though.
I don't think any of us come across as completely scummy at this point, but it's D1 so why would we? And if Robz is as good a player as you say he is, than why would he? Robz has definitely given off the scummiest play so far, which if we have nothing else to go on, I say we go with. It looks like we have plenty of potential hammers, but I'm throwing my own hat in there with them. If it gets to deadline and nothing else has really changed I'll hammer.
On the flip side if anyone thinks waiting is going to be unfruitful we could always put it to a vote. Personally, I would vote to wait. From what I can see, Eevee, and Frisk agree.
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On the flip side if anyone thinks waiting is going to be unfruitful we could always put it to a vote. Personally, I would vote to wait. From what I can see, Eevee, and Frisk agree.
I should add I assume Robz also agrees.
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On the flip side if anyone thinks waiting is going to be unfruitful we could always put it to a vote. Personally, I would vote to wait. From what I can see, Eevee, and Frisk agree.
I should add I assume Robz also agrees.
Well, I agree that it should be delayed indefinitely I guess--in that it shouldn't happen at all. But I hate giving the guilty parties more opportunities to hedge their positions and frame themselves in a better light for Day 2. In one sense, I expect to be lynched, and I'd rather have it over with. But I suppose that isn't the best thing for the town.
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I absolutely think our possible cop should investigate robz if he somehow survived this. It would be just as informational as the flip from getting lynched! Obviously he shouldn't then come right out and claim he is the cop, but rather try to sway the town into the right direction without revealing (and then maybe reveal at some point if that fails). Pretty much just a theory point though, I do not see anyone but robz dying today.
Oh and as Robz pointed out, if he is indeed town, waiting gives the scum on the wagon an excellent chance to hedge. I said it above, it's super likely robz will die tonight. They dont need to argue for his lynch anymore, it's pretty inevitable. I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly felt a little less sure about him.. So people who first argued strongly for robz lynch and then started taking some of it back when the wagon picked off are slightly scummy I guess? Anyone want to admit to this behavior and explain it?
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Oh and as Robz pointed out, if he is indeed town, waiting gives the scum on the wagon an excellent chance to hedge. I said it above, it's super likely robz will die tonight. They dont need to argue for his lynch anymore, it's pretty inevitable. I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly felt a little less sure about him.. So people who first argued strongly for robz lynch and then started taking some of it back when the wagon picked off are slightly scummy I guess? Anyone want to admit to this behavior and explain it?
Well, I agree that it should be delayed indefinitely I guess--in that it shouldn't happen at all. But I hate giving the guilty parties more opportunities to hedge their positions and frame themselves in a better light for Day 2. In one sense, I expect to be lynched, and I'd rather have it over with. But I suppose that isn't the best thing for the town.
I hadn't thought about this point. Maybe it is better to lynch early. I guess it's a trade off. If we give scum more time they might make a mistake, but if they don't make a mistake we're actually helping them. Gah, now I can't really see which is better.
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Starting to reread everything until here, here are the posts I found somewhat meaningful and my short comments:
More like Robvzscum. Vote: Robz. Actually that puts three votes on him a little early. Unvote. How about we get some posts from the people who haven't posted yet since game start? Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Galzria, O. I say we prod them into joining us.
Vote: Cuzz
This was 6 hours after the game had started. Little jumpy? But might just be new player excited of getting to play. Note: I dont know what the time was at various places in the US at the time, so I don't know exactly how much of an over-reaction this was.
Cuzz's answer to my survey:
Hmm, I feel like answering all of your questions would be a major FMFP. However:
3. Nice try. My role PM did seem to contain an unnecessary amount of gender confusion though.
4. Again nice try. I've been hurt too many times before.
What does FMFP stand for? I called him out for dodging the question, he laughed it off and never really answered it. Which is maybe slightly scummy.
Robz had gotten 3 RVS votes, Geo posts this:
Also, unvote: Robz. I don't like L-2 at RVS
If robz is scum, this looks somewhat bad for Geo. If robz is town, this clears him somewhat.
2) I have read some of the nose-stealing thread, thereby being forewarned of Robz and Eevee shenanigans.
What do you mean by this? We were both town, and Robz didn't post much at all before his early demise. I on the other hand lived until the end, which proved to be the town's demise because I'm bad at playing well.
Really not much was meant by it, other than I recall early thread back and forth and your names stuck out. I guess you're memorable.
This is somewhat interesting because I was later called out on flying under the radar or whatever the wording was. I'll remember to check who said that and what ashersky thought of it when I get that far. (Note: in the next post Cuzz also asks if Eevee talking too much and maybe suspicious because of that.)
Also, all things being equal, we're probably better off lynching a noob. Look what happened in MVII (what happened was the 3 most experience players died Day 1, Night 1, Day 2... and scum cruised to an easy win).
This struck to me as somewhat scummy. I have played a lot of games here, and robz knows it. It wasnt a newbie who handed the mafia the win in mafia VII, it was me (timchen going a bit crazy and us getting very very unlucky contributed also) Saying it was because we lynched experienced players first is just incorrect. For example, pingpongsam has played two games and has been just excellent in both of them (he was doctor in VI and scum in VII).
Robz on the pros and cons of nolynch:
My thought is: Let's not have the argument again. There is no definitive answer. And the argument doesn't get us anywhere. I know this from experience.
I find this slightly towny. Scum robz wouldn't mind town distracting itself? Unless he was really really fed up with the argument.
Morgrims first post in the game (first one that contained any real words anyways):
Hi, guys, this is Morgrim. I am showing up to post a vote, and if you make a wagon on me I will selfhammer and turn up VT. BTW, I am a VT. >:(>:(>:(>:(>:(>:(
Vote: Robz888
this is newbie mafia, right?
I dont think this one needs explaining.
As RVS is officially over, I look forward to finding out who is really scum now. I'm hesitant to say my Robz vote was RVS, though, since he's been fairly testy in his posts up to now, and especially about being RVSed. Snapping at the newbies seems slightly scummy, even if (or especially since?) he's been through this before.
Ashersky saying his vote on Robz is a real vote, not RVS.
My impression of Robz's tone was that he was just messing around for most of it. He's also right that it was a bad idea to RVS him to much without keeping track of votes (I think he got all the way to L-2 even with some people unvoting). As for lynching newbs, while I personally object to this, it's not an idea wholly without merit: all other things being equal, experienced town is probably more useful than newb town. I say focus on lynching scum though (obviously).
Geo's answer to ashersky, says he doesn't find Robz that scummy.
You guys wanna lynch me? That is okay, I'm just a VT and you might gain some info from my death. Yeah, I like that idea. I will vote for myself if you like. In fact, Vote: Morgrim7. I'll unvote if you like.
Morgrim chimes in, going all morgrim on us.
Unvote. Vote: Morgrim7.
More info is better than no info. Looks like a wagon.
Ashersky jumps to morgrim 6 posts after saying his robz-vote was not RVS. I note this because it makes him seem generally pretty lynch-happy.
Geolib's answer to the morgrim-wagon that started to form:
I am totally onboard the policy lynch for super anti-town behavior, but I think we should at least wait for O to get here. I would be a little annoyed if D1 lynch was decided before I'd even realized the game had started...
But yeah, roleclaiming, self-voting, threatening to self-hammer, posting only complaints about how one is VT...
I say unless we get a strong scum read on someone else, then we lynch Morgrim. He's just as likely to be scum as anyone else in the D1 crapshoot, and is playing anti-town regardless.
I'm holding off casting my vote until O gets here though.
Now, I really agree with what he is saying and think this is a good post, but it could also be morgrim's scum pair getting jumpy and trying to rescue him. Got to remember that if morgrim dies at some point.
O's first post in this game, stating he wanted to lurk until he is in L-1 and also presenting his case against Robz:
GOD DAMNIT GUYS WHAT THE HELL
I wanted to actively lurk until
a) I got to L-1
b) Someone else got to L-1 and I could hammer in my first post.
That being said Morgrim is VT and Robz is scum
evidence:
---Redirecting to lynch by classes -> trying to lynch a "newbie". Anyone whose read MVII, which robz played in, knows that the concept that new players are worse is false
---Trying to lynch Morgrim the VT, when he knows in his heart of hearts Morgrim is infact a VT, and he knows policy-lynching Morgrim is never a good idea.
---Scum are more often going to vote for their scumbuddies in RVS than other random townies, and as Robz got a nice big RVS wagon probably someone voting for him was scum.
---Shut up and listen because Robz is scum. Kthx.
Vote: Robz the real scum lynch
Now, I think O is likely a VT here. It's just.. lurking until you are in L-1 makes no sense for any role, but it would be even more extreme if you were anything but a VT. But, the WIFOM is especially tasty in O's case, and I wouldnt really put anything past him.
Ashersky immediately jumps back to Robz:
This puts into words well the feeling I was getting, and that prompted my original Robz vote. And now I'm re-convinced. He was testy at his own RVS luck and went on the offensive to redirect votes. That said, he did make a good point on Morgrim's behavior.
Still, you gotta go with the gut. Unvote. Vote: Robz888.
Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Yeah, this line plus everything O said has made me suspicious (the last point was especially convincing).
I'm for building the Vote: Robz888 bandwagon back up.
Cuzz jumps on the wagon too. He puts Robz at L-1, but claims he didn't notice ashersky's vote before posting. Ashersky posted exactly 5 minutes before him, so it's certainly possible Cuzz is lying about that. If robz flips scum, there is no way in hell Cuzz is scum too.
... except that Cuzz unvotes when Robz tells him there is a morgrim on the loose. So Cuzz probably wasnt lying about not seeing ashersky's post, and legitimately did not want to put robz in L-1.
Hey Guys! Let's not be hasty. We have a week, so let's stop getting people to L-1 without discussion. Sheesh, you look away for an hour...
GeoLib telling everyone to take a deep breath again. The 2nd time he is acting as a voice of reason against a rapidly forming wagon. The wagons were on different people (first morgrim now robz), so GeoLip trying to slow them down is probably just him (correctly) wanting us to be cautious.
The reason O doesn't think morgrim is a good policy lynch:
Because Morgrim is going to scumslip if he's scum. And his anti-town behavior abates after D1 anyways, and D1 behavior matters little.
At this point Jorbles unvotes O, saying his vote was only there to get O to post. GeoLib, the only other guy voting for O unvotes soon after, saying he forgot he had his vote was still on O.
Okay, that was everything worth noting I found until page 9. Cutting it here for now, because this is probably already longer than any of you want to read. I'll try to finish it up later today! I know there is nothing on some people (Frisk or myself at least), but it is what it is. I did try to capture all the votes after RVS and everything else of importance, although I got to admit I skimmed my own posts maybe too carelessly (I know I'm town but you don't know that). I hope you find this helpful!
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More like Robvzscum. Vote: Robz. Actually that puts three votes on him a little early. Unvote. How about we get some posts from the people who haven't posted yet since game start? Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Galzria, O. I say we prod them into joining us.
Vote: Cuzz
This was 6 hours after the game had started. Little jumpy? But might just be new player excited of getting to play. Note: I dont know what the time was at various places in the US at the time, so I don't know exactly how much of an over-reaction this was.
I have no idea what the time was. It just seemed like a good idea to pressure everyone into the game and prevent lurking. If that's considered bad strategy then... oh well?
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More like Robvzscum. Vote: Robz. Actually that puts three votes on him a little early. Unvote. How about we get some posts from the people who haven't posted yet since game start? Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Galzria, O. I say we prod them into joining us.
Vote: Cuzz
This was 6 hours after the game had started. Little jumpy? But might just be new player excited of getting to play. Note: I dont know what the time was at various places in the US at the time, so I don't know exactly how much of an over-reaction this was.
I have no idea what the time was. It just seemed like a good idea to pressure everyone into the game and prevent lurking. If that's considered bad strategy then... oh well?
I'm not saying it's bad strategy! I'm saying it's a little weird, given how the mod hadn't even changed the title of the thread yet.. Generally, being absent for 6 hours can not considered "lurking". People have other things to do too, like sleeping for example.
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2) I have read some of the nose-stealing thread, thereby being forewarned of Robz and Eevee shenanigans.
What do you mean by this? We were both town, and Robz didn't post much at all before his early demise. I on the other hand lived until the end, which proved to be the town's demise because I'm bad at playing well.
Really not much was meant by it, other than I recall early thread back and forth and your names stuck out. I guess you're memorable.
This is somewhat interesting because I was later called out on flying under the radar or whatever the wording was. I'll remember to check who said that and what ashersky thought of it when I get that far. (Note: in the next post Cuzz also asks if Eevee talking too much and maybe suspicious because of that.)
As RVS is officially over, I look forward to finding out who is really scum now. I'm hesitant to say my Robz vote was RVS, though, since he's been fairly testy in his posts up to now, and especially about being RVSed. Snapping at the newbies seems slightly scummy, even if (or especially since?) he's been through this before.
Ashersky saying his vote on Robz is a real vote, not RVS.
Unvote. Vote: Morgrim7.
More info is better than no info. Looks like a wagon.
Ashersky jumps to morgrim 6 posts after saying his robz-vote was not RVS. I note this because it makes him seem generally pretty lynch-happy.
Ashersky immediately jumps back to Robz:
This puts into words well the feeling I was getting, and that prompted my original Robz vote. And now I'm re-convinced. He was testy at his own RVS luck and went on the offensive to redirect votes. That said, he did make a good point on Morgrim's behavior.
Still, you gotta go with the gut. Unvote. Vote: Robz888.
Good points from Eevee so far. I think I may have been a little quick to join wagons in the beginning, and that's from this being my first ever Mafia game. I would note I'm currently voting for no one and won't be the one to hammer Robz. I stand by what I said on my gut feeling on the guy, though.
On you being memorable and then under the radar (that was me that said it), it's possible to be both. I really shouldn't have said "under the radar," since it sounds like I meant lurking, but it really meant saying things that kept us from thinking about you in any meaningful way, but instead kept us thinking about others (much like this incredibly long post that says zip about yourself). So not really "under the radar" so much as wearing an invisibility cloak...or something. And it seems like a great way to keep from being outed as scum, you know, to keep everyone else occupied with thinking about everyone else.
On the fast versus slow D1 lynch, I get the point that if Robz gets hammered, then flips the VT he claimed, it makes the mafia's night no easier, since they don't have further info, whereas if he is not lynched, then the mafia know they don't need to NK him since they'll want to go after the PRs instead. Man, this is confusing.
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More like Robvzscum. Vote: Robz. Actually that puts three votes on him a little early. Unvote. How about we get some posts from the people who haven't posted yet since game start? Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Galzria, O. I say we prod them into joining us.
Vote: Cuzz
This was 6 hours after the game had started. Little jumpy? But might just be new player excited of getting to play. Note: I dont know what the time was at various places in the US at the time, so I don't know exactly how much of an over-reaction this was.
I have no idea what the time was. It just seemed like a good idea to pressure everyone into the game and prevent lurking. If that's considered bad strategy then... oh well?
I'm not saying it's bad strategy! I'm saying it's a little weird, given how the mod hadn't even changed the title of the thread yet.. Generally, being absent for 6 hours can not considered "lurking". People have other things to do too, like sleeping for example.
Pffft, sleeping is for scum. Town is always vigilant! Anyhow I get your point.
Moving on though, I like that you've brought up everything you find slightly suspicious. (Though this could be a good mafia play to generally raise suspicions on everyone for small behaviours.) Does anyone (Cuzz in particular) else have anything to say in response to Eevee's post?
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Thank you Eevee for posting that summary. It's nice having the important points quoted, so I don't have to reread the whole thing. Of course this does give you the opportunity to misdirect us... :P
I'm liking Robz lynch less and less. I feel like we kind of let O swoop in and steer us towards the lynch he wants. We should be careful not to confuse his certainty with accuracy. I understand what people are saying about a Robz lynch being sort of inevitable, but I think we've still got time to consider other candidates.
Despite what I said about O steering the lynch, I don't think he's scum (probably). It just seems like that's how O plays: He decides whom he wants to lynch and then argues his points belligerently without backing down. Now I personally find this annoying, but I don't think it makes him scum necessarily. Anyone have experience with scum O and/or town O that they'd like to share?
As for when we lynch, I'm a proponent of waiting a little longer, but not doing it at the last minute. I personally will be busy on Monday, then V/LA all of Tuesday. I'd prefer we lynched before Monday, so that I can pack, but that is a RL, not a game concern.
My favorite lynch is still Morgrim, and as he isn't about to be lynched, I'll back that up with vote: Morgrim
I believe someone (don't remember who) said earlier that a Morgrim lynch gives us less information than another lynch. Could you explain why please?
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I believe someone (don't remember who) said earlier that a Morgrim lynch gives us less information than another lynch. Could you explain why please?
It's because scum don't need to invent a reason to lynch Morgrim. You can't read someone's case against someone when voting for Morgrim and argue with it - because its iron clad. When a confirmed cop outs scum - you have the same problem - the wagons contain less information because there's no BAD reason to vote.
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Moving on though, I like that you've brought up everything you find slightly suspicious. (Though this could be a good mafia play to generally raise suspicions on everyone for small behaviours.) Does anyone (Cuzz in particular) else have anything to say in response to Eevee's post?
Why me in particular? In any case, I was planning on addressing the comments Eevee made about me.
Cuzz's answer to my survey:
Hmm, I feel like answering all of your questions would be a major FMFP. However:
3. Nice try. My role PM did seem to contain an unnecessary amount of gender confusion though.
4. Again nice try. I've been hurt too many times before.
What does FMFP stand for? I called him out for dodging the question, he laughed it off and never really answered it. Which is maybe slightly scummy.
Haha, FMFP stood for forum mafia faux pas, ie what I was concerned about making a lot of in my first game. It's gonna catch on, just watch. I perhaps wrongly interpreted your whole survey as simply screwing around with the new folks (the third question in particular), hence the joking around. I was also nervous about saying much of anything at the beginning (and no, not for any scummy reason), before I got a feel for the game, and then I think I just forgot to go back and answer sincerely. Your question was who would send in the order for a NK if we were a scum team? I guess I'd say whomever has had less suspicion on them in case we have a Jailkeeper in this game, though neither of us has had any serious accusations so far.
This is somewhat interesting because I was later called out on flying under the radar or whatever the wording was. I'll remember to check who said that and what ashersky thought of it when I get that far. (Note: in the next post Cuzz also asks if Eevee talking too much and maybe suspicious because of that.)
As for this, I basically agree with what ashersky has just said:
On you being memorable and then under the radar (that was me that said it), it's possible to be both. I really shouldn't have said "under the radar," since it sounds like I meant lurking, but it really meant saying things that kept us from thinking about you in any meaningful way, but instead kept us thinking about others (much like this incredibly long post that says zip about yourself). So not really "under the radar" so much as wearing an invisibility cloak...or something. And it seems like a great way to keep from being outed as scum, you know, to keep everyone else occupied with thinking about everyone else.
though I don't think this is quite as sinister as he claims. I just mean I agree with the explanation for what people meant when they called you "under the radar."
When I asked if you were talking too much earlier, I was mostly kidding, but trying to get a general idea from others as to how I should interpret everyone's behavior.
Hey guys, let's ease up on the RVS votes for me a bit here. Wouldn't want to accidentally lynch me already. It only takes 5 votes, people.
Yeah, this line plus everything O said has made me suspicious (the last point was especially convincing).
I'm for building the Vote: Robz888 bandwagon back up.
Cuzz jumps on the wagon too. He puts Robz at L-1, but claims he didn't notice ashersky's vote before posting. Ashersky posted exactly 5 minutes before him, so it's certainly possible Cuzz is lying about that. If robz flips scum, there is no way in hell Cuzz is scum too.
... except that Cuzz unvotes when Robz tells him there is a morgrim on the loose. So Cuzz probably wasnt lying about not seeing ashersky's post, and legitimately did not want to put robz in L-1.
The thing about not seeing ashersky's post is true. I was actually shocked when I saw it, because I anticipated I might get a warning from the forum as I posted, and that didn't happen. I must have screwed up somehow. I did want to put more pressure on Robz, but would not have intentionally put him at L-1. I admit I was a bit hesitant to unvote, because I do think there's a good chance Robz is scum, but I then decided to slow things down.
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As the clock ticked its way to 5 o'clock in the afternoon--well I guess the time could be at any point, depending on how soon you guys lynch--the tournament players grew more restless. Someone suggested Robz and O battle out their differences in a thumb war. That just isn't fair though. O lost his good thumb in a scythe incident a couple years back... And Robz burned his on a hot iron. So much for that.... I guess they will just have to wait and see who gets the most votes.
Vote Count 1-8
Robz888 (4): O, Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7
Morgrim7 (2): Robz888, GeoLib
Not voting (3): Eevee, Jorbles, ashersky
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, August 27, at noon forum time (EDT)
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Moving on though, I like that you've brought up everything you find slightly suspicious. (Though this could be a good mafia play to generally raise suspicions on everyone for small behaviours.) Does anyone (Cuzz in particular) else have anything to say in response to Eevee's post?
Why me in particular? In any case, I was planning on addressing the comments Eevee made about me.
It was originally going to say "(ashersky and Cuzz in particular)" but then I saw that ashersky had already replied, but it's because Eevee brought up points about you guys that I didn't think had been adequately answered by you, and I wanted to hear your response. I'm glad you've responded, and I guess that all makes sense. I wanted to be able to compare the two of your motivations for your wagon jumping. My original slight town read on you stands. My read on ashersky is still slightly scummy though. More so because of this:
I think I may have been a little quick to join wagons in the beginning, and that's from this being my first ever Mafia game. I would note I'm currently voting for no one and won't be the one to hammer Robz. I stand by what I said on my gut feeling on the guy, though.
It kinda feels like scum going overboard at the start and then hedging.
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Am I right that the mod post is just flavor and doesn't contain any other information (other than vote count)? Not that the flavor isn't appreciated :D
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Am I right that the mod post is just flavor and doesn't contain any other information (other than vote count)? Not that the flavor isn't appreciated :D
Anything beside the vote count is flavor and only flavor, at least in this game
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Am I right that the mod post is just flavor and doesn't contain any other information (other than vote count)? Not that the flavor isn't appreciated :D
Anything beside the vote count is flavor and only flavor, at least in this game
Ok. That's what I figured. It just almost seemed like you were suggesting that the alternative to a Robz lynch was an O lynch.
I believe someone (don't remember who) said earlier that a Morgrim lynch gives us less information than another lynch. Could you explain why please?
It's because scum don't need to invent a reason to lynch Morgrim. You can't read someone's case against someone when voting for Morgrim and argue with it - because its iron clad. When a confirmed cop outs scum - you have the same problem - the wagons contain less information because there's no BAD reason to vote.
So it's a bad idea to lynch Morgrim because it's such a good idea to lynch Morgrim. Hahaha. This game is ridiculous.
Speaking of Morgrim, he hasn't said much recently. Morgrim! Analyze. Contribute. Convince me we shouldn't lynch you!
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Oh and your argument, Frisk, is only true if Morgrim flips town, correct? If he flips scum then we can analyze the wagon because the other scum would have wanted to prevent the lynch.
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I think I may have been a little quick to join wagons in the beginning, and that's from this being my first ever Mafia game. I would note I'm currently voting for no one and won't be the one to hammer Robz. I stand by what I said on my gut feeling on the guy, though.
It kinda feels like scum going overboard at the start and then hedging.
I think it was more going overboard at the start and then reeling myself in as I learned the pace of the game.
I'm getting a strong town read from Jorbles, for what that's worth. Like, really, really town. Too town?
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A quick note before I start compiling the 2nd half of that post:
As Robz so likes to remind me, I always read these kind of long posts as huge town tells. Which they are to an extent, but not always. Scum can do it too, and if you don't provide any original analysis (which I believe I have), it is actually an easy way for scum to post without having to reveal your true colors. My primary goal isn't to find who to vote for today, but rather to make the flip of that person as informational as possible by exploring connections between people. I dont think re-reading is going to help us much today, because the scummy stuff people do, is not necessarily in what they say (because people know to be careful, they know what we know). It is in what later info reveals of what they said earlier. So I'm primarily looking to find these "if X flips town, that means Y" connections between people.
Anyways, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who found the re-read helpful. Btw, the quotes are indeed links to said posts, so if you feel something in my post is not accurate or that I left something out, just click the link, read yourself and correct me! Going to continue from page 9 now -->
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Why do you find me scummy, Eevee? Because I leaped on Morgrim? I leaped on Morgrim because he was even crazier than usual, to the extent that it didn't even sound like town Morgrim. I found O's insistence that Morgrim was innocent mildly baffling, and called this out too. This makes me scummy? I'm sure you don't actually expect me to flip scum, which is why I don't understand you supporting my death.
I realize now I should be trying hard to convince you not to vote for me. Like, you must realize I'm not scum. You think scum Robz would have done today like this? I would have pounced on Morgrim? I would have voted uncautiously? Scum Robz would not, would never do these things. Town Robz did them because it's usually Galzria's job and he isn't in this game.
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O asking Robz why morgrim is a good (policy) lynch:
also, more importantly, why is the play seriously out of hand?
Because Morgrim gave away his role immediately! And self-voted!
To which O answered he thinks these things are standard for Morg.
ashersky answering Rob'z inquiry about the reason for voting him (and getting confused of my gender in the process):
I've given my reasons for my vote for you, Robz888. I won't say you're blatantly scummy, just giving off the scumvibe, which is enough on D1 to garner my suspicion (and vote). I'd put Eevee in there with you, based on her extreme neutrality on every case so far. Strikes me as scum trying to stay on everyone's good side.
Frisk is sending out good vibes in limited action. I don't have a real read on the rest.
I'm quite surprised to see the town-read on Frisk here, I don't feel he had said much anything at this point really, let alone enough to deserve a town read, but okay. Not very surprised ashersky finds me scummy, this is exactly the problem with especially day 1 as I see it. People look for patterns that have nothing to do with alignments but rather personalities and posting styles. It's why Insomniac always gets killed day 1 for example. I think looking at relations between people is much much more effective than looking at how they behave / word their accusations, because those things pretty much stay the same regardless of alignment + are super WIFOM when they don't.
This is interesting:
Also, I'd like to hear from Cuzz and Ashersky, the world's fastest wagon-joiners.
1st game jitters? It's easy to get caught up in the moment.
So robz calls out the new guys for being too eager to vote and the only new guy not guilty of it defends them. I too am getting a good vibe from Jorbles because of things like this, but we shouldn't confuse someone being a good guy with their alignment in this game.
Morgrim posts again:
Robz is being scummy, like voting for me, but I'm not ready to vote for him yet. Rather, Unvote. I would also like to hear ashersky explain why he so quickly voted for me.
Him not being ready to vote for someone is truly shocking, but other than that this doesn't say much.
Me defending Morgrim, trying to get the wagon to cool down:
Everyone, I don't think Morgrim is scum. Too inconsistent for that, he is just having fun with us (just like O was with his "force myself to L-1"-plan). My favorite lynch for today would actually be robz, even if it would suck to lose such a strong townie.
Me sort of being for the suggested morgrim-policy lynch, except not really:
Even if I dont think morg is playing scummy, taking one for the f.ds-mafiacommunity and policylynching him is not an out of the realm idea and I do see town-robz possibly proposing it (as well as scum robz ofc). But we should probably let the new guys enjoy him first, maybe punish him in some 20 player behemoth where day1 lynch is more random anyways.
Next Morgrim claims he didn't realize claiming VT is anti-town and asks why it's so. Robz provides the explanation, morgrim accepts it.
Jorbles scumhunting Frisk and clarifying rather hedgily where he stands on the robz issue:
I think O made some pretty good points against Robz, but we've got time. I'm interested in hearing from Frisk on why he is voting for Robz. At the time of initial vote it looked like a random vote, but now that it's still sticking around I want a bit more explanation. Presumably some of the points people have made have resonated with him, but I want to read it from his typing hands.
Morgrim posts this (Robz at L-2):
Lets not put another vote on Robz until we are sure we want to lynch him. L-1 is dangerous.
Dont know what can be inferred from it, but Morgrim being careful of someone accidentally getting lynched too fast seems noteworthy.
At this point, Frisk answers Jorbles by unvoting Robz and says "it was indeed pure random, I'm not catched up".
GeoLib stating what he thinks of policy-lynching Morgrim:
I think that we should keep scumhunting, but that if we don't get anywhere we should policy-lynch Morgrim. The anti-town behavior right off the bat was pretty appalling. I still don't buy O's reasoning that
All this being said, I agree with Eevee that we should hold off on a policy-lynch until we're sure we can't find more probable scum. I just think we should hold a Morgrim lynch as a reserve.
In the same post, GeoLib also talks about Robz and O:
I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.
This looks very hedgy to me, it's like he is touching all the issues but still not really saying anything meaningful.
Robz seeing scumpairs and explaining why he thinks morgrim is scum:
Morgrim's likely pre-game convo with scumbuddy:
Morgrim: "I'm going to be batshit insane right from the beginning, and get away with the Morgrim Insanity Defense all game! As long as I stay consistent with all the games where I was town, I won't be suspected! After all, Robz always says that crazy Morgrim is town Morgrim." Then he overplayed things by being too crazy. That wasn't crazy Morgrim, that was Morgrim trying to act like crazy Morgrim.
Now, did O swoop in to dramatically rescue his scumbuddy? Sure looks like that to me.
Personally, I dont find the O-Morgrim theory very likely. It is a possibility, but since we can't ever catch one scum member day 1, stumbling upon two doesn't feel probable.
Jorbles is asked to tell what he thinks of everyone, and does so in this rather long post I'm not quoting because it doesn't really say much (he admits he doesn't have very strong reads on anyone yet):
GeoLib quotes Robz morgrim-theory and says he was thinking about it too and agrees with it. He also notes he thinks Robz's accusation on O is "sort of OMGUS".
Ashersky too answers the "your reads on everyone"-question:
I can get on board with most of Jorbles's reads. I'll mention where I differ, based on what little we have to go on so far.
Robz888: Still get the slightly scummy vibe, for previously mentioned issues. Then again, reading some of his non-game posts on d.fs make me think maybe it's just his writing style. Also, unvote.
I don't see an O/Morgrim duo at the moment, and Robz toss there could be indicative. O reads slightly scummy, though, just based on forcefulness. Morgrim is just crazy, so I think it's just too difficult to nail down his true intent.
Agree on Frisk, Geolib, and Cuzz for now, all strike me as good folk. Jorbles reads non-scum for now.
I think Eevee is the one flying under the radar, which is always suspect. What does pointing the FOS do? Anything?
I like how ashersky realized the same thing I'm realizing more and more, most of our "reads" come from writing styles, and that we should be looking at actions rather than words (if for nothing else, at least for volume purposes ^-^).
O drops the bomb:
for the record Robz reaction to the case has made me so convinced that I will not be voting for any non-robz candidate for lynch for, idk, the rest of the game?
until
a) Robz dies
b) Robz is cleared by a cop/other scum is found by a cop
c) I die.
Suffices to say O really believes in his case? This is just crazy certainty for day 1. Actually, one of the reasons I think Robz is maybe a good lynch is that I think O is a smart guy, he wouldn't probably dare to do this as scum and he is.. just so certain. But onwards ->
GeoLib on various topics, nothing huge here just some thoughts from him:
As I've said before, I agree with Robz that this seems like Morgrim playing Morgrim, but then again I don't have any direct experience with Morgrim in the past, so I'd be interested to hear other veteran's take. Is this Morgrim-as-usual or something else? Frisk?
Looks like Eevee already gave his opinion:
Everyone, I don't think Morgrim is scum. Too inconsistent for that, he is just having fun with us (just like O was with his "force myself to L-1"-plan).
Robz's defense does seem scummy, but O's declaration that he won't vote for anyone else seems a little ridiculous. How on earth can you be so sure? I'd buy a Robz scum, but I'd also buy a frustrated Robz VT. The scum-pair hunting was pretty ridiculous though... What's the probability of finding that. 1 in 36? At this point I wouldn't be adverse to a Robz lynch, but I'm not sold.
I was going to agree with Ashersky on Eevee "flying under the radar," but then I actually reread some of his posts and I think he's been contributing well though staying back a bit. Maybe this is scummy or maybe he's just letting newbies have a chance (if it's the latter, thanks!)
As for Fos, I think I'm the only one who's used it so far (other than the Fos on Galzria... :))). I think it can be useful just to indicate you suspect someone when people are skimming. So me putting FoS makes it easier for someone to go "Aha! This is where GeoLib say Morgrim seems suspicious." Probably not that useful, but acronyms are fun!
Cliffs: seconds the feeling of me staying back but in the end thinks I haven't really. Finds both O and Robz suspect, but acknowledges they might be town too. Hedgy/not saying much.
Jorbles says he doesn't think Eevee flies under the radar, but is worried it might just mean that it's working.
Cuzz votes Robz, explains his reasons and wants the town to hurry up a bit:
Talk is good, but eventually we do have to put some votes in. Right now I feel comfortable voting and I Vote: Robz again (votes => pressure => good, right Eevee?).
O has listed some good reasons. A few more:
Robz basically behaved almost exactly as Morgrim did with his "the looks on your faces" comment. Not a self-vote exactly, but still. Robz demanded a policy lynch on Morgrim for similar behavior.
He suggested lynching based on experience. I just have a hard time imagining a townie really supporting this idea.
Both his accusations and defensive statements seem way over the top to me. More subjective, sure, but still. I'm just getting a real scummy vibe.
Pile the votes on or don't, either way I just want to get some serious discussion going on this. Otherwise we'll be in the exact same place at the deadline.
Robz clarifies he isn't voting morgrim for policy reasons, and explains his case on him. Also makes a comment about MVII which I believe to be flat out incorrect:
Robz basically behaved almost exactly as Morgrim did with his "the looks on your faces" comment. Not a self-vote exactly, but still. Robz demanded a policy lynch on Morgrim for similar behavior.
He suggested lynching based on experience. I just have a hard time imagining a townie really supporting this idea.
You misunderstand why I am voting for Morgrim. I am not voting him for policy reasons. Policy reasons are also valid against Morgrim, but I am voting him because he is trying to feign his usual townie craziness. He is in fact acting substantially MORE crazy than usual. So crazy, it's staged. He basically did the two most anti-town things he could do, and he did them immediately in his first vote. It's over the top crazy, because he's trying ACT crazy. He thought me, maybe Frisk, O and Eevee would overlook him for that reason. This is why I am voting for him. I believe he is scum. O's strange rescue of him has also made O suspicious to me.
As to lynching based on experience, in MVII, I feel like a big part of the problem was that the first 3 deaths (lynches and Nkills) were the 3 smartest and most experienced players. Didn't give the town much of a chance.
Frisk posts, saying he has finally catched up, and stating his take on various things in a post longer than the Bible:
Main points are in the first chapters of the post, where he expresses frustration on Morgrim's behavior, says Robz is scummy for pursuing morgrim lynch this early and places his vote on Robz.
Shortly after, GeoLib posts saying he "basically agrees with everything Frisk just said".
Robz is now at L-2. Morgrim posts "I'm not gonna put Robz at L-1, though I'd love to.", and when O asks whats the reason for this (with a sad smiley), Morgrim answers by voting Robz, putting him at L-1.
Robz giving us last words:
Anyway, if these are my last words, you all know what I think about Morgrim and O. Frisk and Eevee have disappointed me. Watch out for the newbies particularly the ones who voted me so quickly, Cuzz and ashersky. Jorbles and GeoLib seem less scummy, so they're probably the mafia, for all I know.
Ashersky asks me of my thoughts on hammering Robz and I answer:
I would ask, Eevee, for your argument for and against you casting the hammer vote on Robz, if I may.
For:
Claimed VT, nonexistent risk of lynching a town power role
Has played somewhat scummy (YMMV)
My gut isnt screaming "HE IS TOWN" when I read his defense
If we let him live, we will likely be facing the same dilemma tomorrow as some of us (hint: O) will try to push his lynch again. He could be investigated though, if we have a cop. Also scum wont kill him at night, and either way this is an informational wagon.
Against:
Could be a real asset to town (if town)
The scumminess is actually nothing concrete (but then againt, from a robz-level player it never is day 1)
I definitely thinking no one should rush to hammer him, no matter how good of a lynch you think he would be. We are in no hurry, maybe someone slips and gives us a stronger scum (or town) read, talking is generally very good for town. If the conversation dies, then I dont mind an early hammer. Myself.. I will do it maybe, I dont have any better candidates yet at least. But I definitely don't agree with O's level of certainty, the case is good but it's not the slam dunk he makes it to be. Whether scum O would be bold enough to go after Robz with such certainty is just a huge wifom, so I dont think Robz flipping town would actually even reflect that badly on O. If Robz is mafia, O is 99% town though.
And then I posted the first half of this summary.
I found the first half more interesting, mainly because it had more voting happening. Compiling these summaries has really convinced me of the importance of voting. Both me and Frisk are almost no reads, because we haven't really backed our posts with voting (okay Frisk has voted once, which actually might be ok for his low post count). I have played like this in every game, super careful of throwing my vote early. That will stop now, I see how very anti-town behavior it is. It's really quite shocking how much more information the flip will give on any of the active voters compared to guys like me who just state what they feel but never back it up with a vote.
This is the part where I'd show my new ways and vote for someone, but that someone would be Robz and that would be the hammer. And let it be said: I would do that if I didn't want us to continue talking still.
Robz: My gut indeed says you are probably town, but mafia VII really was a sick learning experience of me. My gut sucks. And the fact is, O has a real case on you. While I certainly don't agree with his confidence in it, the cold truth is your flip would be super informational for town. If you read the first half of my summary, you surely noticed how much it would tell us. And there is the fact the worse case is that you are a vanilla townie. And the fact that O, a smart guy, is sure you are town (and I don't think he would drive it that hard as scum, although I admit it's possible).
So.. I'm sorry buddy, I think I got to go against my gut here. Especially because I don't have any scum reads on anyone yet. I'm hoping to get them from your flip!
So if you are town, this really sucks for you personally.. but gotham needs this from you.
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What is O's case against me that is so great? Everyone keeps saying it's a great case, without actually restating it. He thinks Morgrim will definitely scumslip, which is not necessarily true, and he's certainly overconfident (and wrong, as you will soon see). But you're making him out to be some sort of genius. He's not. He's no better with his reads than other experienced players. Both him and Morgrim are acting like they expected to get by on their usual shtick, except I've played with them a lot and it doesn't look like their usual shtick to me. It looks like them trying to fake that.
I'm not at all convinced of my case, and I'm a little worried that the true mafia are just sitting back while we all destroy each other (sort of like MVII). But for now I can't ignore the giant scum read I have on Morgrim, who is additionally patently awful for the town.
What does my flip tell anyone? It will make O look terrible, but other that, not much.
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O's great on you is so great mainly because he believes in it so so much and is unlikely to be scum faking it (imo).
The benefits of your flip (exact quotes are in my summary, part one)
-If you flip scum, geo looks quite scummy too. If you flip town, geo looks a tad townier.
-If you flip scum, Cuzz has to be town.
Okay I only noted two things it seems, felt there were more. The hammer (who does it, who doesn't do it) might give us more too.
Still, it seems better than going for a new target completely, possibly outing our power roles in the process. Although you do have me almost convinced of your innocence.. :-\ Surely you must understand why I'd rather lynch for logical reasons than listen to my gut at this point?
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Of course, but I think that my case against morgrim is better than o's case against me.
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Of course, but I think that my case against morgrim is better than o's case against me.
Morgrim lynches are always less informational, despite everything, it's just always bit of a cop-out. And I don't agree with your assessment of his behavior.
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Btw Robz, as I think it's quite possible you are town, I think you should absolutely at least share all your reads before you die. It's very unfortunate we are in this situation, but I just see no reasonable way out. I dont think it's morgrim at least. Actually..
Vote: ashersky, bring chaos to the world. I think ashersky is more likely than robz to be scum, but I'm still not sure if Robz is just the better lynch for us.
And I do realize I'm taking a pretty big role here by even suggesting another wagon, but I got to get this off my mind.
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Still, it seems better than going for a new target completely, possibly outing our power roles in the process. Although you do have me almost convinced of your innocence.. :-\ Surely you must understand why I'd rather lynch for logical reasons than listen to my gut at this point?
Guess that didn't quite work out. And sorry about the gender confusion before.
Thanks for the recap posts, I do think they are informative, and will be even more so on D2. You make a good case for the lynching of Robz, but I have to think we still have time to get a better read on others. I have a vote available, but I'm not comfortable being the hammer.
We haven't heard from Frisk in awhile, I noticed. Wonder what he's up to.
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We haven't heard from Frisk in awhile, I noticed. Wonder what he's up to.
I'm surprised you chose to call out Frisk. He posted about 10 hours ago, whereas O and Morgrim have both been silent for about 28...
I guess we have to resign ourselves to Morgrim just being sort of strange (unless we lynch him), but I'm surprised O hasn't said anything in a while, especially since he's the one who's been leading the charge against Robz.
O care to recap or add to your argument for a Robz lynch? Something other than "OMG guys I'm so absolutely totally certain!! Obvscum! Why haven't you lynched him yet?!" would be ideal.
I was about to ask Ashersky why he didn't respond to Eevee's vote for him, but I realized that it didn't really seem like Eevee presented a case other than:
Vote: ashersky, bring chaos to the world. I think ashersky is more likely than robz to be scum
Care to explain your vote, Eevee? I know that there's important information in your summary posts, but could you write a post with just the scum-ashersky case please?
I also wanted to mention your point that:
People look for patterns that have nothing to do with alignments but rather personalities and posting styles.
I think this is a really important consideration. I've caught myself basing my reads on what I perceive to be people's personalities. I think this is why I at first agreed with ashersky that you seemed to be "flying under the radar." You just seemed so... congenial. Which gave me an implicit town read on you, and then I started thinking about why I read you as town, and was like, well maybe this is a clever scum move... Super WIFOM
I also find myself disagreeing with O partly because his certainty annoys me. I'd guess you guys have already picked up on this. It makes me want to oppose him just because he can't possibly be that certain. Of course I should be considering the logic of his arguments instead, but I find it hard to separate them from him... Damn...
One last thing, and then I'm going to bed:
I'm not going to dig up the exact quotes, but you mention a couple times in your behemoth posts (primarily, the second one) that a post of mine is "hedgy" or "doesn't end up saying much" (something like that, anyway). I'm trying to explain as many of my thoughts as I can, but I don't think I'm ever going to come down on an issue with the certainty that some people (hint: O) exhibit. As I said, I think that sort of certainty is absurd coming from a townie. I'm sorry if it's annoying or unhelpful, but I'm not going to fake conviction. I don't think this is scummy though because I've still managed to open myself up to post-wagon analysis (something, you point out, that you and Frisk have not done). For example, despite my "hedginess," I'll come out looking pretty scummy if Robz flips scum although I wouldn't give a damn because we'd have lynched scum D1!! Anyway, that's all. Bedtime for me
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GOD DAMNIT GUYS WHAT THE HELL
I wanted to actively lurk until
a) I got to L-1
b) Someone else got to L-1 and I could hammer in my first post.
That being said Morgrim is VT and Robz is scum
evidence:
---Redirecting to lynch by classes -> trying to lynch a "newbie". Anyone whose read MVII, which robz played in, knows that the concept that new players are worse is false
---Trying to lynch Morgrim the VT, when he knows in his heart of hearts Morgrim is infact a VT, and he knows policy-lynching Morgrim is never a good idea.
---Scum are more often going to vote for their scumbuddies in RVS than other random townies, and as Robz got a nice big RVS wagon probably someone voting for him was scum.
---Shut up and listen because Robz is scum. Kthx.
Vote: Robz the real scum lynch
This was the original case. I'll be back soon with his terrible response.
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We haven't heard from Frisk in awhile, I noticed. Wonder what he's up to.
I'm surprised you chose to call out Frisk. He posted about 10 hours ago, whereas O and Morgrim have both been silent for about 28...
I called on Frisk because I feel like I've gotten a good read from him <i>when</i> he posts. Morgrim is, well, you know...and O stated his lurker cause and concrete certainty on Robz which we're all aware and wary of. So Frisk.
I was about to ask Ashersky why he didn't respond to Eevee's vote for him, but I realized that it didn't really seem like Eevee presented a case other than:
Vote: ashersky, bring chaos to the world. I think ashersky is more likely than robz to be scum
Care to explain your vote, Eevee? I know that there's important information in your summary posts, but could you write a post with just the scum-ashersky case please?
This. I don't have a response to "bring chaos to the world" other than, well, chaos is bad. Order strikes me as the way to go.
Also for the record, I'm of the opinion that geo is on the up-and-up, based on his posting so far.
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I wouldn't even put it past Morgrim to be scum after all this.. but I think you are all being too hasty.
I agree that we're being hasty, but Jesus Christ, he gave away his role and self-voted, like, immediately. We can't keep excusing this behavior.
In truth, this is too crazy, even for Morgrim, so quickly out of the gate. It may be staged. If not, it is a long overdue policy lynch.
Fake anger
Hahaha. Okay. You're all in for a rude awakening.
fake mild amusement
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Because this is the first game where I've thought the anti-town play was seriously out of hand. It's way more Morgrim, than you.
In MVII I assumed that I would be the first night kill unless I acted at least a little suspiciously, which was problematic for the town because of my PR. I was correct; if you check the mafia QT, they planned to kill me first night even before the game started, and in fact, they did so.
I'm not sure you've ever been nightkilled, certainly not night 1, so you don't have the same incentive to avoid that fate, as it isn't certain to befall you the way it was certain for me.
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attempting to establish a difference this time when there really isn't any
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oh and when I get NKed sheep Geolib as my read after robz.
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Vote Count 1-9
Robz888 (4): O, Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7
Morgrim7 (2): Robz888, GeoLib
ashersky (1): Eevee
Not voting (2): Jorbles, ashersky
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, August 27, at noon forum time (EDT)
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Recent quotes from Eevee:
FoS does nothing. Just a way to show you suspect someone without actually casting a vote. I personally dont think it's very effective, votes build pressure which is good, fos is just too mild.
And then:
I have played like this in every game, super careful of throwing my vote early. That will stop now, I see how very anti-town behavior it is. It's really quite shocking how much more information the flip will give on any of the active voters compared to guys like me who just state what they feel but never back it up with a vote.
This is the part where I'd show my new ways and vote for someone, but that someone would be Robz and that would be the hammer. And let it be said: I would do that if I didn't want us to continue talking still.
Robz: My gut indeed says you are probably town, but mafia VII really was a sick learning experience of me. My gut sucks. And the fact is, O has a real case on you. While I certainly don't agree with his confidence in it, the cold truth is your flip would be super informational for town. If you read the first half of my summary, you surely noticed how much it would tell us. And there is the fact the worse case is that you are a vanilla townie. And the fact that O, a smart guy, is sure you are town (and I don't think he would drive it that hard as scum, although I admit it's possible).
So.. I'm sorry buddy, I think I got to go against my gut here. Especially because I don't have any scum reads on anyone yet. I'm hoping to get them from your flip!
So if you are town, this really sucks for you personally.. but gotham needs this from you.
Next:
Still, it seems better than going for a new target completely, possibly outing our power roles in the process. Although you do have me almost convinced of your innocence.. :-\ Surely you must understand why I'd rather lynch for logical reasons than listen to my gut at this point?
And finally:
Btw Robz, as I think it's quite possible you are town, I think you should absolutely at least share all your reads before you die. It's very unfortunate we are in this situation, but I just see no reasonable way out. I dont think it's morgrim at least. Actually..
Vote: ashersky, bring chaos to the world. I think ashersky is more likely than robz to be scum, but I'm still not sure if Robz is just the better lynch for us.
And I do realize I'm taking a pretty big role here by even suggesting another wagon, but I got to get this off my mind.
Eevee claims FOS is ineffective, and people should be voting. Eevee then claims that his style is always to be super careful and not throw his vote in early. Eevee then says such cautious behavior will stop now, and backs it up by not voting in that post, and putting a FOS on Robz without hammering. Eevee says his gut is that Robz is town, but has to go against his gut, but again, does nothing.
Next Eevee warns against a new target in the name of town unity, and follows this up by breaking his indecisiveness and finally voting... for ashersky. Who is "more likely than robz to be scum," despite having said nothing of the sort in either of the two novels he posted yesterday.
Can someone help me out with the count of how many times he has contradicted himself here? I've lost track. Eevee's long analysis has been helpful, but honestly, to me all of this looks truly terrible for Eevee. He seems too smart to not realize that he's being egregiously inconsistent, so maybe it's on purpose. Does he want us to pull the suspicion onto him to protect Robz? Of course he said he would be voting Robz if it wouldn't be the hammer, but talk is cheap. I know it's hard enough to find one scum on D1, but I think an Eevee/Robz duo is not out of the question.
Can someone please hammer so we can get some real information before the mafia have chance to screw with us more?
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Btw Robz, as I think it's quite possible you are town, I think you should absolutely at least share all your reads before you die. It's very unfortunate we are in this situation, but I just see no reasonable way out. I dont think it's morgrim at least. Actually..
Vote: ashersky, bring chaos to the world. I think ashersky is more likely than robz to be scum, but I'm still not sure if Robz is just the better lynch for us.
And I do realize I'm taking a pretty big role here by even suggesting another wagon, but I got to get this off my mind.
The thing is that I don't want to over-share my reads with you, because I don't want them guiding you too much from beyond the grave. I don't want you to say "Robz flipped town, and he suspected GeoLib the least, so GeoLib is confirmed town." Like, i don't want to bear that responsibility. My reads are only so good.
Just keep in mind mainly what I've said about Morgrim and O. Ashersky (who is not a bad lynch, I don't think) and Cuzz have shown an eagerness to quick wagon that actually is quite scummy, but perhaps they don't know better. Then you have people who I think are town by could very well be scum who just got lucky when the rest of the town went off on each other.
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Eevee claims FOS is ineffective, and people should be voting. Eevee then claims that his style is always to be super careful and not throw his vote in early. Eevee then says such cautious behavior will stop now, and backs it up by not voting in that post, and putting a FOS on Robz without hammering. Eevee says his gut is that Robz is town, but has to go against his gut, but again, does nothing.
Next Eevee warns against a new target in the name of town unity, and follows this up by breaking his indecisiveness and finally voting... for ashersky. Who is "more likely than robz to be scum," despite having said nothing of the sort in either of the two novels he posted yesterday.
Can someone help me out with the count of how many times he has contradicted himself here? I've lost track. Eevee's long analysis has been helpful, but honestly, to me all of this looks truly terrible for Eevee. He seems too smart to not realize that he's being egregiously inconsistent, so maybe it's on purpose. Does he want us to pull the suspicion onto him to protect Robz? Of course he said he would be voting Robz if it wouldn't be the hammer, but talk is cheap. I know it's hard enough to find one scum on D1, but I think an Eevee/Robz duo is not out of the question.
Can someone please hammer so we can get some real information before the mafia have chance to screw with us more?
Jorbles and I are the only votes left. The Eevee could be scum covering for his scumbuddy Robz is plausible, but Robz claimed VT already, which could be a scum play...WIFOS and all that.
Jorbles, anything to add? Feel its time to hammer? You've been the most level-headed one, I think, so I'll wait for your response before making that call myself, since, man, quick to wagon (in the opinion of some) is one thing, but quick to hammer is another.
And @ Robz on the "quick to wagon" aspect--I've definitely admitted to first game jitters on that, and have since pulled my vote back and have held it back as I've learned the way the game is played. I hope that's enough to unscum myself some in your eyes.
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Just keep in mind mainly what I've said about Morgrim and O. Ashersky (who is not a bad lynch, I don't think) and Cuzz have shown an eagerness to quick wagon that actually is quite scummy, but perhaps they don't know better. Then you have people who I think are town by could very well be scum who just got lucky when the rest of the town went off on each other.
The bolded part there <i>could</i> be read as confirming Cuzz's take on Eevee protecting Robz, since now Robz is confirming Eevee's out-of-the-blue move.
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Just keep in mind mainly what I've said about Morgrim and O. Ashersky (who is not a bad lynch, I don't think) and Cuzz have shown an eagerness to quick wagon that actually is quite scummy, but perhaps they don't know better. Then you have people who I think are town by could very well be scum who just got lucky when the rest of the town went off on each other.
The bolded part there <i>could</i> be read as confirming Cuzz's take on Eevee protecting Robz, since now Robz is confirming Eevee's out-of-the-blue move.
You hear this, Eevee? You've been outed as my scumbuddy.
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Just keep in mind mainly what I've said about Morgrim and O. Ashersky (who is not a bad lynch, I don't think) and Cuzz have shown an eagerness to quick wagon that actually is quite scummy, but perhaps they don't know better. Then you have people who I think are town by could very well be scum who just got lucky when the rest of the town went off on each other.
The bolded part there <i>could</i> be read as confirming Cuzz's take on Eevee protecting Robz, since now Robz is confirming Eevee's out-of-the-blue move.
You hear this, Eevee? You've been outed as my scumbuddy.
Hehehe - i love that he calls out eevee as a pair - and then calls for someone to hammer you. There are only 4 people who could do it, and he just wrote one of them off.
Ok - how about this: For those of you not voting RobZ - who do you think would be a better candidate today? I'm especially interested in the 2 non voters (jorbles, ashersky).
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Just keep in mind mainly what I've said about Morgrim and O. Ashersky (who is not a bad lynch, I don't think) and Cuzz have shown an eagerness to quick wagon that actually is quite scummy, but perhaps they don't know better. Then you have people who I think are town by could very well be scum who just got lucky when the rest of the town went off on each other.
The bolded part there <i>could</i> be read as confirming Cuzz's take on Eevee protecting Robz, since now Robz is confirming Eevee's out-of-the-blue move.
You hear this, Eevee? You've been outed as my scumbuddy.
Hehehe - i love that he calls out eevee as a pair - and then calls for someone to hammer you. There are only 4 people who could do it, and he just wrote one of them off.
Ok - how about this: For those of you not voting RobZ - who do you think would be a better candidate today? I'm especially interested in the 2 non voters (jorbles, ashersky).
I'm tempted to say Ashersky, but in reality, still Morgrim, I think. Ashersky's scummy behavior really could just be newbie eagerness. It probably is.
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Hehehe - i love that he calls out eevee as a pair - and then calls for someone to hammer you. There are only 4 people who could do it, and he just wrote one of them off.
Ok - how about this: For those of you not voting RobZ - who do you think would be a better candidate today? I'm especially interested in the 2 non voters (jorbles, ashersky).
Cuzz actually called the pair, for which I was adding possible evidence. I also didn't ask for a hammer, I said I wanted to hear from Jorbles before I would hammer.
O is probably the sleeper candidate for D1 lynch, if not Robz. How either of them flip would be fairly informative.
Do you see an option other than Robz, who you've already voted for?
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Ugh, I am super hungover right now and unlikely to provide any interesting new thoughts at the moment, but I have read and caught up. That said, I think Robz and ashersky have both played scummy. I've pointed out before why I think ashersky has been scummy, and my reason for thinking Robz is primarily due to O's analysis before Robz got super cautious. If everyone is done analyzing I will hammer, but I say we strongly consider ashersky for his scumminess in d2.
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just woke up, nobody hammer before i get a chance to address these questions please!
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Okey dokey, off to put water in me.
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Okay, here we go!
We haven't heard from Frisk in awhile, I noticed. Wonder what he's up to.
I'm surprised you chose to call out Frisk. He posted about 10 hours ago, whereas O and Morgrim have both been silent for about 28...
Calling out Frisk actually makes sense to me. He tends to write long, analytical posts, we certainly want his input as much as possible! My guess is he is in multiple games and just doesn't find this as exciting yet, so he is just not putting in as much as effort as he sometimes does (and this is fine I think). I also recall him saying he can't post much on weekends, so we might have to wait a little longer.
I was about to ask Ashersky why he didn't respond to Eevee's vote for him, but I realized that it didn't really seem like Eevee presented a case other than:
Vote: ashersky, bring chaos to the world. I think ashersky is more likely than robz to be scum
Care to explain your vote, Eevee? I know that there's important information in your summary posts, but could you write a post with just the scum-ashersky case please?
Oh yeah, I kind of didn't explain that at all. Well, despite thinking Robz lynch might be tops lynch (am I doing this right?), I'm not exactly convinced he is scum. His defense is actually quite solid (although a bit WIFOMy), scum Robz would indeed most likely avoid being so confrontational. Ashersky explained his eager voting with "first game jitters", but we have three other first timers, and neither of them has really gotten them, at least not to that extent. But, other than the voting behavior, I don't really have anything concrete. As I said, re-reading convinced me of the importance of voting, and it's clearly too early to hammer Robz (given how I for example have this much to say, and judging by the amount of posting while I was sleeping, so have others), I chose to vote for the guy that gave me the scummiest vibe on the re-read. Note: these vibes have been how we/I usually choose our day 1 lynch targets, and they generally have not been very accurate. So, I might just be picking on ashersky's playing style. I also wanted to see how town would react to the possibility of another wagon. For example Robz's supposed scumbuddy would have all the reasons to go "yeah I agree!" and vote for ashersky too, but no one seemed to care really which makes Robz look a bit townier maybe?
I'm not going to dig up the exact quotes, but you mention a couple times in your behemoth posts (primarily, the second one) that a post of mine is "hedgy" or "doesn't end up saying much" (something like that, anyway). I'm trying to explain as many of my thoughts as I can, but I don't think I'm ever going to come down on an issue with the certainty that some people (hint: O) exhibit. As I said, I think that sort of certainty is absurd coming from a townie. I'm sorry if it's annoying or unhelpful, but I'm not going to fake conviction. I don't think this is scummy though because I've still managed to open myself up to post-wagon analysis (something, you point out, that you and Frisk have not done). For example, despite my "hedginess," I'll come out looking pretty scummy if Robz flips scum although I wouldn't give a damn because we'd have lynched scum D1!! Anyway, that's all. Bedtime for me
Yes, I know hedging is not necessarily a scum tell, because townies are actually genuinely unsure. But, you see how covering all the angles ("I think he is scummy, but I might be wrong") really makes it hard for us to analyze after we get new information? This is why voting is good, votes are definite and they always mean something. But I wasn't accusing of hedging you to make you start posting differently, let alone to make you fake convictions.. just noting that "even though he said this, it doesn't really mean much because..". You know, the most important bits from the summary are votes and O's super confidence. Being cautious is easy for scum (they can say "I would be willing to vote for my scumbuddy.. maybe" and then when the time comes, just not do it because they remembered to hedge in their original statement. And I do realize I've been very hedgy with the Robz case, although I have explained my reasons for it. And I would for sure rather lynch robz than nolynch, not even close.
@ashersky
Bringing chaos was a poor choice of words, rather .. stir the pot a bit? Get some reads from the reactions at least? As I said, it's mostly just a gut read that could just come from your playstyle/posting style. And I want to have my vote somewhere, and voting for Robz would end the day which I don't want yet. I think me playing as non confrontational as I had before voting you is not beneficial for me / town.
@Cuzz
Wow! Okay, first of all, if I was scumbuddies with Robz, purposefully pulling suspicion to me to protect Robz would be just the most terrible scum strategy ever! Like really, even the thought is laughable? Like, you are saying I was thinking "Because they already found Robz, got to reveal myself too so maybe I die instead of Robz?", which just makes absolutely no sense.
And yeah, FoS's are less effective than votes, but voting for Robz would have been an anti-town (imo ofc) hammer, so. I explained this above. And because I couldn't vote for Robz (yet at least), but still wanted to have my vote somewhere, I chose someone who gave me sort of a scummy vibe in my re-reading. I have said Robz is not super likely to be scum numerous times, the main benefit of lynching him would be the flip (obviously the possibility of him being scum is awesome, that'd be two birds with one stone). But sort of sucks to lynch someone your gut says is town, especially if he is a nice guy like Robz (shouldn't matter) and a very strong player.
I see some people actually sort of agree with me that ashersky has been giving a scummy vibe. I won't vote for O today, because I don't think mafia would be bold enough to lurk until at L-1 and then come with all guns blazing at Robz like he did. Seems like O trying to make most of VT to me.
(writing this took longer than I expected because of some distractions, will not proofread, sorry guys! Yes I usually proofread lol, I'm just that terrible at grammar.)
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I see some people actually sort of agree with me that ashersky has been giving a scummy vibe. I won't vote for O today, because I don't think mafia would be bold enough to lurk until at L-1 and then come with all guns blazing at Robz like he did. Seems like O trying to make most of VT to me.
But see, we don't know for sure that O would have done this. He claims he was going to do this. I'm sure he's lying; he almost certainly did NOT plan to do this, regardless of his role. Now, whether the comment was more of a jest that anything incriminating is quite possible.
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I see some people actually sort of agree with me that ashersky has been giving a scummy vibe. I won't vote for O today, because I don't think mafia would be bold enough to lurk until at L-1 and then come with all guns blazing at Robz like he did. Seems like O trying to make most of VT to me.
But see, we don't know for sure that O would have done this. He claims he was going to do this. I'm sure he's lying; he almost certainly did NOT plan to do this, regardless of his role. Now, whether the comment was more of a jest that anything incriminating is quite possible.
True. But starting the day with the "robz is scum and i know it" is almost the same, just a little bit milder. You think scum-O would dare to do that just to get you killed?
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I see some people actually sort of agree with me that ashersky has been giving a scummy vibe. I won't vote for O today, because I don't think mafia would be bold enough to lurk until at L-1 and then come with all guns blazing at Robz like he did. Seems like O trying to make most of VT to me.
But see, we don't know for sure that O would have done this. He claims he was going to do this. I'm sure he's lying; he almost certainly did NOT plan to do this, regardless of his role. Now, whether the comment was more of a jest that anything incriminating is quite possible.
I would agree with this. Even when he said he was going to do that, he gave no condition under which he would have done so. He just seemed to change his mind and stop lurking because we were taking too long to put someone at L-1, which is ridiculous given when this occurred.
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I see some people actually sort of agree with me that ashersky has been giving a scummy vibe. I won't vote for O today, because I don't think mafia would be bold enough to lurk until at L-1 and then come with all guns blazing at Robz like he did. Seems like O trying to make most of VT to me.
But see, we don't know for sure that O would have done this. He claims he was going to do this. I'm sure he's lying; he almost certainly did NOT plan to do this, regardless of his role. Now, whether the comment was more of a jest that anything incriminating is quite possible.
True. But starting the day with the "robz is scum and i know it" is almost the same, just a little bit milder. You think scum-O would dare to do that just to get you killed?
Sure, why not?
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I see some people actually sort of agree with me that ashersky has been giving a scummy vibe. I won't vote for O today, because I don't think mafia would be bold enough to lurk until at L-1 and then come with all guns blazing at Robz like he did. Seems like O trying to make most of VT to me.
But see, we don't know for sure that O would have done this. He claims he was going to do this. I'm sure he's lying; he almost certainly did NOT plan to do this, regardless of his role. Now, whether the comment was more of a jest that anything incriminating is quite possible.
True. But starting the day with the "robz is scum and i know it" is almost the same, just a little bit milder. You think scum-O would dare to do that just to get you killed?
Sure, why not?
Let me clarify, I think it's possible. I haven't disqualified it. I am not, however, willing to say that O is the person I most think is scum. That person is still Morgrim.
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I see some people actually sort of agree with me that ashersky has been giving a scummy vibe. I won't vote for O today, because I don't think mafia would be bold enough to lurk until at L-1 and then come with all guns blazing at Robz like he did. Seems like O trying to make most of VT to me.
But see, we don't know for sure that O would have done this. He claims he was going to do this. I'm sure he's lying; he almost certainly did NOT plan to do this, regardless of his role. Now, whether the comment was more of a jest that anything incriminating is quite possible.
True. But starting the day with the "robz is scum and i know it" is almost the same, just a little bit milder. You think scum-O would dare to do that just to get you killed?
Sure, why not?
Let me clarify, I think it's possible. I haven't disqualified it. I am not, however, willing to say that O is the person I most think is scum. That person is still Morgrim.
Especially in a newbie game, doesn't that just run an incredibly high risk of "okay, lynch robz and then if he flips town lynch O!" happening? Or you could have been a power role. It's just a very risky thing for mafia to do, and I don't really see the need for gambits with our tendency of lynching town day 1.
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I see some people actually sort of agree with me that ashersky has been giving a scummy vibe. I won't vote for O today, because I don't think mafia would be bold enough to lurk until at L-1 and then come with all guns blazing at Robz like he did. Seems like O trying to make most of VT to me.
But see, we don't know for sure that O would have done this. He claims he was going to do this. I'm sure he's lying; he almost certainly did NOT plan to do this, regardless of his role. Now, whether the comment was more of a jest that anything incriminating is quite possible.
True. But starting the day with the "robz is scum and i know it" is almost the same, just a little bit milder. You think scum-O would dare to do that just to get you killed?
Sure, why not?
Let me clarify, I think it's possible. I haven't disqualified it. I am not, however, willing to say that O is the person I most think is scum. That person is still Morgrim.
Especially in a newbie game, doesn't that just run an incredibly high risk of "okay, lynch robz and then if he flips town lynch O!" happening? Or you could have been a power role. It's just a very risky thing for mafia to do, and I don't really see the need for gambits with our tendency of lynching town day 1.
Well, this is all true, which is why I don't want to lynch O. But if Morgrim is mafia, O is highly likely to be his scum partner, that's all.
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Okay Eevee, I'm suspicious of ashersky too, but why is an ashersky lynch better than a Robz lynch?
For the record I think we're better off lynching Robz. The player who is pushing for it the hardest has a lot more experience playing with Robz and his playstyle than anyone does judging ashersky's. The evidence against ashersky is there, but it's not any stronger a case than the one against Robz. The evidence against Robz is also there, and some of our most experienced players are on board with it. Why is the case against ashersky better?
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Okay Eevee, I'm suspicious of ashersky too, but why is an ashersky lynch better than a Robz lynch?
For the record I think we're better off lynching Robz. The player who is pushing for it the hardest has a lot more experience playing with Robz and his playstyle than anyone does judging ashersky's. The evidence against ashersky is there, but it's not any stronger a case than the one against Robz. The evidence against Robz is also there, and some of our most experienced players are on board with it. Why is the case against ashersky better?
I have not said it is better (tbh, I'm undecided whom I want to lynch more). I have merely said there is a case for ashersky too.
Robz is more of an asset if he is town and lives, but his flip is also more informational. The case against robz is stronger, but so is his defense and explanation for his actions. I think it's very close.
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Okay Eevee, I'm suspicious of ashersky too, but why is an ashersky lynch better than a Robz lynch?
For the record I think we're better off lynching Robz. The player who is pushing for it the hardest has a lot more experience playing with Robz and his playstyle than anyone does judging ashersky's. The evidence against ashersky is there, but it's not any stronger a case than the one against Robz. The evidence against Robz is also there, and some of our most experienced players are on board with it. Why is the case against ashersky better?
The case against me is worse because I'm not scummy, really. What can I do to convince you of that, Jorbs? If I hammer Robz now, it looks like I'm trying to shut down talk about me, since that's where we seem to have gone. If the choice has come down to hammer Robz or fill the wagon on me, well, of course I'm going to go with Robz, because I shouldn't be lynched.
It actually sounds like the choice isn't between Robz and me, so much as between Robz and Morgrim (or at least, it was). I honestly don't know which one is better strategically for D2.
Also, Jorbles seems to have jumped from voice of reason to pushing on me pretty hard. I think he is worth a second look on D2, whoever gets lynched today.
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FWIW nobody currently on the wagon is bussing robz if he's scum (90% certain of this- not 90% certain that both robz is scum and this is true).
So Robz flipping scum indeed would be quite informative.
Robz flipping town would also be quite informative but I'll hold off on how because theres WIFOM there and I'd like to avoid hinting what to the scum.
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FWIW nobody currently on the wagon is bussing robz if he's scum (90% certain of this- not 90% certain that both robz is scum and this is true).
So Robz flipping scum indeed would be quite informative.
What makes you this sure?
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FWIW nobody currently on the wagon is bussing robz if he's scum (90% certain of this- not 90% certain that both robz is scum and this is true).
So Robz flipping scum indeed would be quite informative.
What makes you this sure?
Because the wagon was nice and quick and rather confusing. Scum would see it more valuable to try and derail the wagon, which is probably very likely given how the wagon started, then getting towncred for bussing.
Bussing your scumbuddy D1 in a 9 player game is very dangerous and unlikely to work with PRs.
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So it's late where I'm at, and I'm about to go to sleep. I'm wondering if we should take some action before that happens. The chatter has slowed down in the last 30 minutes or so...are we winding down?
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yea, you should hammer robz.
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Okay Eevee, I'm suspicious of ashersky too, but why is an ashersky lynch better than a Robz lynch?
For the record I think we're better off lynching Robz. The player who is pushing for it the hardest has a lot more experience playing with Robz and his playstyle than anyone does judging ashersky's. The evidence against ashersky is there, but it's not any stronger a case than the one against Robz. The evidence against Robz is also there, and some of our most experienced players are on board with it. Why is the case against ashersky better?
The case against me is worse because I'm not scummy, really. What can I do to convince you of that, Jorbs? If I hammer Robz now, it looks like I'm trying to shut down talk about me, since that's where we seem to have gone. If the choice has come down to hammer Robz or fill the wagon on me, well, of course I'm going to go with Robz, because I shouldn't be lynched.
It actually sounds like the choice isn't between Robz and me, so much as between Robz and Morgrim (or at least, it was). I honestly don't know which one is better strategically for D2.
Also, Jorbles seems to have jumped from voice of reason to pushing on me pretty hard. I think he is worth a second look on D2, whoever gets lynched today.
Hmmm, I guess I'll just have to keep observing you in the future. Your initial play could be first game jitters, but it's hard the sort of thing that is hard to tell. I am pushing, but I don't think pushing is a bad thing. It gets people to state their motivations. I did genuinely want to know why Eevee had voted for you. A vote shows a desire to lynch and I wanted to know why he thought your lynch was better than Robz's. I wanted to see if Eevee had an argument that would convince me to vote for you.
As to Morgrim, I think his odds of being Mafia are exactly 2/9. His play style makes him difficult to read, but doesn't strike me as being so much scummy as anti-town. He's been absent from the game since voting for Robz. He doesn't strike me as being particularly patient so maybe that's why he just hasn't been weighing in on these debates. He's only really showed up to throw a vote, watch the splash and then he disappeared. I don't like his playstyle, I don't think it helps the town, but is it mafia? Probably not. Hopefully we will get more out of him later in the game, but I'm not overly suspicious of him.
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A prod has been sent out to Morgrim7.
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I share Jorbles's thoughts regarding morgrim, expect I'd say he is rather slightly town than exactly 2/8 (Jorbles, is that a scumslip, a mistake or are you actually unsure of your own alignment?). This disappearing act makes sense for a bored vanilla townie too, as sad as that is. Morgrim is never going to be nightkilled (especially now), so having him around as town is a bit problematic. Don't really know what the best course of action would be.
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I'm also satisfied that we've had sufficient time for discussion. Weekends are usually dead anyway.
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I share Jorbles's thoughts regarding morgrim, expect I'd say he is rather slightly town than exactly 2/8 (Jorbles, is that a scumslip, a mistake or are you actually unsure of your own alignment?). This disappearing act makes sense for a bored vanilla townie too, as sad as that is. Morgrim is never going to be nightkilled (especially now), so having him around as town is a bit problematic. Don't really know what the best course of action would be.
Lynch him. That's the best course of action.
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I share Jorbles's thoughts regarding morgrim, expect I'd say he is rather slightly town than exactly 2/8 (Jorbles, is that a scumslip, a mistake or are you actually unsure of your own alignment?). This disappearing act makes sense for a bored vanilla townie too, as sad as that is. Morgrim is never going to be nightkilled (especially now), so having him around as town is a bit problematic. Don't really know what the best course of action would be.
haha, oops, you'd think playing dominion i'd be better at that sort of math.
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I share Jorbles's thoughts regarding morgrim, expect I'd say he is rather slightly town than exactly 2/8 (Jorbles, is that a scumslip, a mistake or are you actually unsure of your own alignment?). This disappearing act makes sense for a bored vanilla townie too, as sad as that is. Morgrim is never going to be nightkilled (especially now), so having him around as town is a bit problematic. Don't really know what the best course of action would be.
Lynch him. That's the best course of action.
We don't have the votes for that. We do for you, though. Anyone willing to change their vote? If not, it sounds like we can go ahead and lynch Robz.
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Ok. I'm back.
I realize this has been addressed, but Cuzz's Eevee-Robz scumbuddy theory is patently absurd (sorry Cuzz). It assumes we've already found one scum and that the other scum would want to draw the votes away by.... Putting them on himself?!? Eevee and Robz could be scum buddies, but this would be because Eevee is saying he wants to vote Robz, but not voting Robz. Deliberately getting yourself lynched by acting suspicious is probably the worst scum strategy ever (Go on, correct me you pedants).
I agree with O that if Robz flips scum then it's pretty unlikely that anyone on the wagon is scum. Bussing you scum-buddy D1 is almost as bad as deliberately lynching yourself. The only reason to hop on the wagon is if it seems inevitable to vindicate yourself and I don't think there was ever a point where the wagon seemed huge and inevitable for someone to just hop on. Is the vote count in the order that they voted??
I am suspicious of Cuzz's call for someone to hammer without more discussion. It wasn't a "I think it's time for the hammer. What thinks the group?" It was a "individual person, hammmer!" O did the same thing, but he's been pushing Robz lynch the whole time. Could Cuzz perhaps be scum calling for the lynch while he still looks clean?
I notice that O has changed his style somewhat. No longer making absolute declarations. I appreciate this, and it seems like a nod to my obvious annoyance at his certitude (Thanks, O). OTOH, does changing your style like this seem scummy? I think it probably doesn't. Just a realization that one way isn't going to get you any further.
Oh and just saw the post about Jorble's math. I too have made the same mistake, viewing the game as an objective outsider. You make a good point though. I now view each of you as more scummy than before! :P
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Is the vote count in the order that they voted??
I have been trying to keep the order, and I believe voltgloss has as well, let us know if you think the order is off
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I share Jorbles's thoughts regarding morgrim, expect I'd say he is rather slightly town than exactly 2/8 (Jorbles, is that a scumslip, a mistake or are you actually unsure of your own alignment?). This disappearing act makes sense for a bored vanilla townie too, as sad as that is. Morgrim is never going to be nightkilled (especially now), so having him around as town is a bit problematic. Don't really know what the best course of action would be.
Lynch him. That's the best course of action.
We don't have the votes for that. We do for you, though. Anyone willing to change their vote? If not, it sounds like we can go ahead and lynch Robz.
Yeah we do... I mean, at least we do theoretically. There are 4 votes on Robz, leaving 5 that could go on Morgrim. Your math sucks too... Unless I'm missing something?
I am still reluctant to lynch Robz because I don't think he's scum, but as Eevee points out, his flip would give us some info. Wait a sec... It looks like it only gives us lots of info if he is scum. (I look scummy, Everyone on wagon looks towny). What do we get if he flips town? AIRC, the only info we get is that I look slightly townier, and that just doesn't seem worth it really. Does it?
Last night lying in bed (yeah I was thinking about this while trying to sleep. Apparently I have no life...) I thought that perhaps before we lynch we should have everyone say some last words. I was really happy with this idea, but then I realized that it would just give scum the opportunity to NK whoever's last words were the most wrong... Damn, and I thought I was so smart. Of course I could have just suggested the last words part and then relied on scum to figure out the rest, NK an unsuspecting townie and then point out the problem the next day and suggest doing the opposite of whatever they said, but that seemed too much like playing the rest of the town, which felt scummy. Ah well. I guess this entire paragraph is pretty much useless then...
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We don't have the votes for that. We do for you, though. Anyone willing to change their vote? If not, it sounds like we can go ahead and lynch Robz.
Yeah we do... I mean, at least we do theoretically. There are 4 votes on Robz, leaving 5 that could go on Morgrim. Your math sucks too... Unless I'm missing something?
I meant, we don't have the votes unless folks unvote first. Jorbles or I could just hammer Robz, but even with both our votes on Morgrim, it would take at least one changed vote. That's the math I was doing, anyway.
I am still reluctant to lynch Robz because I don't think he's scum, but as Eevee points out, his flip would give us some info. Wait a sec... It looks like it only gives us lots of info if he is scum. (I look scummy, Everyone on wagon looks towny). What do we get if he flips town? AIRC, the only info we get is that I look slightly townier, and that just doesn't seem worth it really. Does it?
I think if he flips town, it also makes Eevee look townier. Probably brings some suspicion on O for his press to lynch Robz.
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Is the vote count in the order that they voted??
I have been trying to keep the order, and I believe voltgloss has as well, let us know if you think the order is off
Yes, in each votecount I have kept votes in the order they were cast.
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I am suspicious of Cuzz's call for someone to hammer without more discussion. It wasn't a "I think it's time for the hammer. What thinks the group?" It was a "individual person, hammmer!" O did the same thing, but he's been pushing Robz lynch the whole time. Could Cuzz perhaps be scum calling for the lynch while he still looks clean?
I couldn't remember when this happened so I dug it up, click through for link:
Recent quotes from Eevee:
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Can someone please hammer so we can get some real information before the mafia have chance to screw with us more?
Wasn't this right after the debate about whether prolonging debate when a lynch is certain helps or hinders scum? Cuzz evidently believes it helps scum. I don't, but I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"
I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.
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YES. HAMMER. derp
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Wasn't this right after the debate about whether prolonging debate when a lynch is certain helps or hinders scum? Cuzz evidently believes it helps scum. I don't, but I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"
I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.
I guess I can do it. Vote: Robz888. Let's see how this goes.
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I am suspicious of Cuzz's call for someone to hammer without more discussion. It wasn't a "I think it's time for the hammer. What thinks the group?" It was a "individual person, hammmer!" O did the same thing, but he's been pushing Robz lynch the whole time. Could Cuzz perhaps be scum calling for the lynch while he still looks clean?
I couldn't remember when this happened so I dug it up, click through for link:
Recent quotes from Eevee:
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Can someone please hammer so we can get some real information before the mafia have chance to screw with us more?
Wasn't this right after the debate about whether prolonging debate when a lynch is certain helps or hinders scum? Cuzz evidently believes it helps scum. I don't, but I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"
I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.
As I said before: I don't like it. I vote no.
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Oh well, I guess that's that.
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Wasn't this right after the debate about whether prolonging debate when a lynch is certain helps or hinders scum? Cuzz evidently believes it helps scum. I don't, but I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"
I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.
I guess I can do it. Vote: Robz888. Let's see how this goes.
Is that 5? You're wrong, I'm town. Remember, Morgrim and O. Adios!
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Well shit. Looks like Ashersky took matters into his own hands. Robz, last words quick
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Well shit. Looks like Ashersky took matters into his own hands. Robz, last words quick
I just gave them to you.
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Well shit. Looks like Ashersky took matters into his own hands. Robz, last words quick
I just gave them to you.
Yup. Popped up when I posted. Sorry
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Well shit. Looks like Ashersky took matters into his own hands. Robz, last words quick
I just gave them to you.
A hundred times actually. Nothing fundamental changed. Look at Morgrim, who is fake over the-the-top crazy, not town crazy. O defended him in a weird and scummy way. Watch out for the wagoners, Cuzz and super scum possible just newby ashersky.
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And welcome to the club of totally failing to lynch scum on Day 1! :)
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welcome to the club of appearing scummy as hell D1 ;)
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Damnit guys...
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In the unlikely event that I'm NKed and you see Robz/O town: Ignore Robz inane reads.
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Vote Count 1-10
Robz888 (5): O, Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7, ashersky
Morgrim7 (2): Robz888, GeoLib
ashersky (1): Eevee
Not voting (1): Jorbles
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Robz888 was looking more and more suspicious. "I've played Dominion against him online," said O. "He was never very good. The only time he beat me was using the Masquerade-Goons-King's Court pin." "Yes, he was terrible," Cuzz. "Check his pockets," cried Captain_Frisk. Morgrim7 reached into Robz's pockets and found a small electronic device. It had a whole bunch of buttons on it and it has the letters 'VP' on it! "He must be mafia and a cheat!" ashersky declared! That decided it, the mob of players grabbed the empty Dominion box covers. Someone lit a match and set them on fire. They threw Robz on top and watch him die a gruesome death.
After the flames had died down GeoLib picked up the point counting device. "Guys," he said with a quivering voice "He wasn't a cheater. This was a pedometer. "It says, to our wonderful financial VP. From the staff. Good luck with your weight loss program!"
-It should also be noted that before Robz turned to Dominion he was an excellent Extreme Ironing Champion. Yes it exists. (http://list25.com/the-25-most-obscure-sports-in-the-world/)-
Robz888 has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie.
Night 1 has begun. Night actions are due in 72 hours, i.e., by Monday, August 27, 6:00 p.m. EDT. If all night actions are received prior to the deadline, Day 2 may start early. Please send PMs to both me and yuma - thanks.
THREAD LOCKED.
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Well shit. Looks like Ashersky took matters into his own hands. Robz, last words quick
I felt pretty comfortable that a majority of the town was okay with going ahead with it. Jorbles would have gotten his majority, at any rate. There was a bit of tire-spinning at this point; now we can begin in earnest to root out the scum from this town with added info.
Robz's final words make a good point, at least on O, in retrospect. Everyone on the Robz wagon got no reprieve from this, since he didn't flip scum to justify the wagon. Now we get an evening to think.
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Note that the Night deadline has been extended to Monday, per PM I received from yuma. See my modified final-vote-count post.
EDIT: Flavor, by yuma, has been added to the final-vote-count!
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As morning broke in Indianapolis the Dominion National Champions awoke to shouts and yells. Cannons went off, rockets exploded, the walls shook from the noise. Everyone--at least everyone alive--scrambled to their feat dazed and still dreaming of perfect shuffle luck and the new Dark Age cards. The two mafia members looked at each other--had they been discovered? Had someone found them out and then called the National Guard? Everyone scrambled to the window to see what all the commotion was about.
Everything outside was covered in blue and white. Banners and streamers hung from buildings. Everyone seemed to be wearing the same shirt, with a horseshoe on it. There were no military tanks or helicopters. Just a long line of people celebrating the arrival of Andrew Luck to the Indianapolis Colts. Football.... Psshhh... Nearly all of the them weren't from the United States, what did they care about football?
Disappointed--except for the two mafia members who were relieved they weren't found out--everyone turned around only to experience another shock. O the vanilla townie lay dead beneath the table strangled with his own belt. What a tragedy. O would never return to the fields of Russia and dance in the Fairgrounds with his three children, Harvest, Hamlet and Young Witch...
Day 2 Begins
Vote Count 2-1
Not Voting (7): Cuzz, Eevee, Captain Frisk, asherkey, Morgrim7, Jorbles, GeoLib
Day 2 ends Monday, September 3 at noon forum time.
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Why did scum choose O? He only suspected Robz (right?), so I can't think who this makes look scummy. It's interesting (and not necessarily bad at all) scum chose to serve us any WIFOM but went for O instead. Probably they feared he'd catch them still, despite his bad Robz read. They seemsto be going for the mafia VII route where they kill of the experienced guys first, hopefully this town can do better than that town did!
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Ooooookay, so what do we have here? We accidentally (well, accidentally for most of us) lynched a townie (sorry, Robz!), and lost another one last night. Both vanillas, so no power roles gone, but there may only be like one of those anyway. And strangely enough, the townie killed last night was the one pushing hardest for Robz's lynch, so my plan of suspecting O at the beginning of Day 2 is out.
Questions for today:
--Who looks good, who looks bad?
Well, the two people with the strongest convictions so far are dead, so it's maybe a little tricky to get reads. I probably look bad after pushing for the Robz hammer. I really thought he had a decent chance of being scum, but obviously I was wrong. Ashersky had some suspicion on him toward the end, and was actually the one to hammer, so I'd think he looks bad as well. As a newbie himself, if he was mafia, Eevee's theory of the mafia killing off the more experienced players may hold water.
Geolib and Eevee were explicit about not wanting to hammer Robz at the end, (Geolib more so, but Eevee decided to vote ashersky when he could have hammered). Jorbles didn't vote but expressed willingness to hammer. Not sure quite how to interpret these actions. Mafia could have laid back and argued against a hammer, confident that someone else would do the dirty work. Or maybe they just had way better reads on Robz than I did.
Morgrim has been way quiet lately which seems pretty scummy to me. CF has been relatively quiet too, so I'd really like some analysis from him at some point.
-Any info from power roles?
I'm just not sure how this works because I'm new. Power roles may have helpful info, but is it too early to claim?
-Is there mod WIFOM?
Specifically, any connection between the Morgrim prod and the night action deadline extension? The deadline could have been extended because Morgrim has a night action and hadn't been heard from yet, or because the mods didn't want us to think Morgrim didn't have a night action if the deadline wasn't extended. Or I'm reading too much into this and it's not a helpful train of thought.
Thoughts?
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Well first off, RIP O and Robz: Do not think that you have died in vain, for the stench of your slowly decaying bodies will doubtless hurry us to find the evil scum in our midst.
Hmmm... The O NK is rather strange. Notably, I made the point yesterday that scum could NK whoever's last words were most wrong hoping we would follow the advice of a confirmed townie. They might have read that and used it. Hmmm. I think the experience thing is probably more likely, but something to keep in mind. Presumably the strangled flavor doesn't mean anything? I thought mafia usually used guns, but we don't have any other killing roles, so I assume it doesn't matter.
Speaking of last words, Robz's were "suspect O and Morgrim," and O's were to ignore Robz. Well that's rather unhelpful. I realize this is super WIFOM, but could Morgrim have killed O because it was O who was defending him, thus making us think that... And you know I don't even want to write that whole thought, which means it's too convoluted to be useful.
@Cuzz. I don't think we should read too much into the Mod's decisions. Too much WIFOM, and in the end it's not what the game's about.
I can't take too much time to analyze right now because I'm packing to fly to college on Tuesday. I will try to check occasionally tomorrow, but can't get too involved. Will be on a plane all of Tuesday.
My first thought is that scum would probably not want to tunnel town, but would want to mildly protest while indicating with other things that the lynch was a good idea. You know whom that sounds like?? Eevee:
I do think O makes sense btw.
My favorite lynch for today would actually be robz, even if it would suck to lose such a strong townie.
For:
Claimed VT, nonexistent risk of lynching a town power role
Has played somewhat scummy (YMMV)
My gut isnt screaming "HE IS TOWN" when I read his defense
If we let him live, we will likely be facing the same dilemma tomorrow as some of us (hint: O) will try to push his lynch again. He could be investigated though, if we have a cop. Also scum wont kill him at night, and either way this is an informational wagon.
Against:
Could be a real asset to town (if town)
The scumminess is actually nothing concrete (but then againt, from a robz-level player it never is day 1)
I actually quite agree with O's case on Robz
Oh and as Robz pointed out, if he is indeed town, waiting gives the scum on the wagon an excellent chance to hedge. I said it above, it's super likely robz will die tonight. They dont need to argue for his lynch anymore, it's pretty inevitable. I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly felt a little less sure about him.. So people who first argued strongly for robz lynch and then started taking some of it back when the wagon picked off are slightly scummy I guess? Anyone want to admit to this behavior and explain it?
Actually, one of the reasons I think Robz is maybe a good lynch is that I think O is a smart guy
Still, it seems better than going for a new target completely, possibly outing our power roles in the process. Although you do have me almost convinced of your innocence.. :-\ Surely you must understand why I'd rather lynch for logical reasons than listen to my gut at this point?
Btw Robz, as I think it's quite possible you are town, I think you should absolutely at least share all your reads before you die. It's very unfortunate we are in this situation, but I just see no reasonable way out.
Being cautious is easy for scum (they can say "I would be willing to vote for my scumbuddy.. maybe" and then when the time comes, just not do it because they remembered to hedge in their original statement. And I do realize I've been very hedgy with the Robz case, although I have explained my reasons for it. And I would for sure rather lynch robz than nolynch, not even close.
I have said Robz is not super likely to be scum numerous times, the main benefit of lynching him would be the flip (obviously the possibility of him being scum is awesome, that'd be two birds with one stone). But sort of sucks to lynch someone your gut says is town, especially if he is a nice guy like Robz (shouldn't matter) and a very strong player.
Ok, so looking back perhaps this case doesn't make as much sense as I thought. But my recollection was that Eevee was saying that he thought Robz was probably town, but at the same time including little tidbits telling other people that basically there was no one else we could lynch D1, and that O was really smart and his case was excellent. Not necessarily saying we should lynch him, but just popped into my head, and I thought I should share.
I've got to get back to packing. I'll check in again tomorrow.
Try not to lynch anyone without me!
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Strangling is usually attributed to strongmans, but since this is a closed (open? which is it? anyways the one where we know what we are up against) it doesn't matter at all, just flavor.
I would not try to WIFOM our mod for two reasons. 1) it's not in the spirit of the game 2) it's not like yuma didn't realize people would think this, so i'ts indeed just a wifom i think would in the end be useless. Morgrim has claimed VT, I suggest that's all we base our decisions on.
It's interesting I survived the night. Opinions people, do you think a mafia team with ashersky would have killed me or not?
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@GeoLib
Haha, obviously no one is going to get lynched before tomorrow. I don't really know how to address your case since.. yeah, those quotes are from me? I believe I was pretty spot on with Robz and in the end finally realized it was not a smart lynch, but it was too late. I stand by everything I said about him yesterday though Actually, props to you for suspecting me because I actually agree my yesterday's end game behavior could easily be interpreted as scummy. Hopefully you'll remember my earlier stuff too and that will clear me some!
What do we think, how many scum on the wagon? I think there must have been some, it picked up relatively quickly and in my experience wagons forming on a strong case made by a misguided townie are exactly the kind of wagons that attract scum early on and midway. Now, if there already was one mafia on the wagon, I'm not sure if his scumbuddy would have joined late / hammered, because it very much looked like that was going to happen eventually anyways and scum prefers to get the lynch through without both voting. So, my guess would be that a) they both got on early or b) one of them got on early and the other did not at all. I don't even remember who jumped on it and when, got to reread later, heading home now so no time!
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In the unlikely event that I'm NKed and you see Robz/O town: Ignore Robz inane reads.
O's last words. So even after he knew Robz was town, he didn't think Morgrim was mafia.
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Hmm, the only guys off the wagon were myself, Jorbles and Geolib. Seeing their names makes me think maybe both scum were on the wagon after all - my very unreliable gut is feeling pretty good about Geo and relatively good about Jorbles. I will be rereading where Cuzz jumped on the wagon and his general voting positions yesterday, like I said I find joining a townie who is dead wrong about someone early is where I wouöd expect scum would want to be.
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I'll save you the trouble, Eevee. That pretty much exactly describes my voting pattern. O was pushing for a Robz lynch, and I followed right after him, echoing his arguments. I guess this would make me seem scummy to you. Here's my vote on Robz, at a point when O was the only vote so far:
Talk is good, but eventually we do have to put some votes in. Right now I feel comfortable voting and I Vote: Robz again (votes => pressure => good, right Eevee?).
O has listed some good reasons. A few more:
Robz basically behaved almost exactly as Morgrim did with his "the looks on your faces" comment. Not a self-vote exactly, but still. Robz demanded a policy lynch on Morgrim for similar behavior.
He suggested lynching based on experience. I just have a hard time imagining a townie really supporting this idea.
Both his accusations and defensive statements seem way over the top to me. More subjective, sure, but still. I'm just getting a real scummy vibe.
Pile the votes on or don't, either way I just want to get some serious discussion going on this. Otherwise we'll be in the exact same place at the deadline.
Your theory is basically that the second person (i.e. me) on a misguided wagon begun by a townie (i.e. O) is potential scum.
Your theory would be useless then if O was not confirmed town, so I find it a little convenient for you that he was NKed last night.
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Thanks for digging that up. So Robz was your first serious vote and you stayed on him all day? I'm also interested in seeing how you reacted to the wagon at its various points and in situations where you chose not to unvote when more and more people joined. Oh and I didn't mean to imply it would be a traditional scum tell or anything, just thinking (out loud) where I'd expect the scum to be / want to be.
Theory question: what other ways are there for analyzing this new information? I've briefly touched listening to dead townies, analyzing voting positions and analyzing who has incentive to kill who now, which I feel are all good topics. Personally I think voting positions are the most important thing, but given how I didn't vote for either townies yesterday I guess that's what I would say as scum.
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Uuh less of a scum read on ashersky now actually, for two reasons.
1) I wasn't nightkilled despite my case against him (mafia might just want me around thoughn given my performances in VII and murder mystery..)
[self-centered] 2) O was killed, and I repeatedly said he seemed towny to me. Maybe mafia wanted to make me feel good about my reads because I'm wrong about ashersky? [/self-centered]
I don't remember what others thought of O (RIP mate) yesterday? Was he maybe killed for appearing too towny despite his case against Robz?
Oh it's getting loltastic how much I post here. Sorry for being borderline spammy!
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Chiming in quickly to let people know my travel has completed and I am now in the US. I have Eastern time work hours without real Internet access, so I will be posting at night from now on.
Sad and surprised to see O gone, like many others I didn't expect that.
I will second whomever's question it was on what we can expect from PRs today, if anything, as I just don't know what they do...
With O gone, suspicion returns to Morgim, I think. Where are you Morg?
Eevee and others, do you think Geo's ultra-pacifist ways could be scummy?
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With O gone, suspicion returns to Morgim, I think. Where are you Morg?
I'm just mad cause I'm. a VT. Again. ugh!!!! Good now.
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With O gone, suspicion returns to Morgim, I think. Where are you Morg?
I'm just mad cause I'm. a VT. Again. ugh!!!! Good now.
No. Try again Morgrim. He (she?)'s asking you to participate in the discussion - maybe contribute something meaningful. Instead- you just reminded us all that you made a stupid roleclaim on day 1.
As for the killing of O - this actually reminds me of the killing of timchen in M7. For those who didn't follow closely, Galzria and Timchen had an epic fight on Day 2 of M7 - and the end result was that tim got Galzria lynched - and they were both town. Timchen was pushing for it HARD.
As a spectator (they lynched me day 1) - I assumed they would keep timchen alive into day 3, and lynch eevee instead - because after being such a loud vocal lynch for town - he would look super scummy the next day.
Galzria pointed out to me that being so vocally in favor of lynching is pretty agressive for scum play - and timchen was uncontrollable - he might accidentally lock on to scum - and you knew there would be no way to change his mind. O seems like a stronger player than timchen (sorry Tim) - but I could see the same fear existing - that O will make his decision and then call all of us idiots for not doing what he says - bullying us into a lynch - good or bad.
Why did scum choose O? He only suspected Robz (right?), so I can't think who this makes look scummy. It's interesting (and not necessarily bad at all) scum chose to serve us any WIFOM but went for O instead. Probably they feared he'd catch them still, despite his bad Robz read. They seemsto be going for the mafia VII route where they kill of the experienced guys first, hopefully this town can do better than that town did!
Big FOS: eeVee for even asking this question - seeing as you lived it already.
Hmmm... The O NK is rather strange. Notably, I made the point yesterday that scum could NK whoever's last words were most wrong hoping we would follow the advice of a confirmed townie. They might have read that and used it.
Minor FoS: geolib - but you may not have read M7 and the associated quicktopics.
The other thing we haven't brought up here, is looking at the wagons.
People who voted for RobZ - these people look naturally scummier because they contributed to the death of town.
O, Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7, ashersky
People who didn't:
RobZ, GeoLib, eevee, Jorbles
We have 2 scum, who could have been on the wagons as follows:
1. Both voted to kill RobZ
2. Both voted to not kill RobZ
3. They split - one for and one against.
Now - consider each of those buckets - and think about (from scum's perspective) options a and b.
a. Kill someone who voted for RobZ
b. Kill someone who didn't
1a - This leaves 2 scum who voted for RobZ left in the scummy pool of 4 people remaining (50% chance of hitting scum if we investigate on the wagon), and a 0% chance of hitting scum if we investigate off the wagon.
1b - 2/5 40% chance of hitting scum on the wagon, 0/2 hitting off the wagon
2a - 0/4 chance of hitting scum on the wagon, 2/3 chance of hitting scum off the wagon
2b - 0/5 chance of hitting scum on the wagon, 2/2 chance of hitting scum off
3a - 1/4 (25%) chance of hitting scum on the wagon, 1/3 (33%) chance of hitting scum off
3b - 1/5 (20%) chance of hitting scum on the wagon, 1/2 (50%) chance of hitting scum off
Conservative scum play is to aim for 3a. The default chance of hitting scum in a purely random lynch is 22% on day 1 (2/9) 3a keeps everything close and even - so that no matter which way town goes - the chances of hitting scum are reasonably low.
Option 2 is hard (lynching town without any scum). To be honest, I'm not sure if its ever happened before.
So - the question is - With all the B branches removed because of the scum kill - do you think that scum are aggressive enough to both vote for the lynch AND then also kill someone who lynched with them (option 1a)? I wouldn't say its impossible - but the only person I think that would be aggressive enough to do it in this game was already night killed. We do have some new players though.
With weekend gone - I'll try to be posting more frequently. I want to reread day 1 with the new perspective. I'd also like to hear something meaningful from Morgrim. We saved him by lynching the morgrim hunter, if we're going to treat him like a confirmed townie - then at least lets here what he has to say.
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Hey just woke up. I find it extremely likely that at least one scum was on the wagon, and I would not rule out two scum. For these sorts of purposes of analyzing voting intentions I should point out that I was completely willing to hammer Robz (sorry Robz!) and if ashersky hadn't jumped in I probably would have been doing it within an hour or two. So I guess you should consider me in that list.
-Any info from power roles?
I'm just not sure how this works because I'm new. Power roles may have helpful info, but is it too early to claim?
I will second whomever's question it was on what we can expect from PRs today, if anything, as I just don't know what they do...
I think we should hope that PRs will hang back unless they have some solid information, and even if they do have something they shouldn't out themselves unless they have to. Given the results of last night, only a Cop could possibly have anything definitively incriminating at this point anyways so it might not even be an issue. (if there's a doctor or jailkeeper out there they chose someone who is not a murderer or murder target).
I'm not sure what to say about O's death. Maybe scum thought that he would be able to talk his way out of lynching relatively easily? Going so aggressively at Robz does seem like a crazy move for scum, so maybe they figured most people would treat O as confirmed town. There might also be some merit to the theory that they killed him for his experience. Thinking about who would be scared of experienced players seems like a dead end though.
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-Any info from power roles?
I'm just not sure how this works because I'm new. Power roles may have helpful info, but is it too early to claim?
Oh - on this - I think the general accepted practice is only claim if you have legit info that explicitly helps town.
For the roles that are in this game:
Cop: Claim early in the day if you investigated scum. The longer you wait - the less plausible the claim is.
Cop: If you investigated town - and that town is near lynch - then claim. This is questionable - because you might die. For sure do not claim that you investigated town early.
Doctor: Claim at L-1? Ideally you'd like the cop to know you exist, but no-one else. There's no reliable way to accomplish this.
Jailkeeper: I have no idea. If you jailkept and prevented a kill - you have a 50/50 chance of knowing mafia (or mafia target). I don't know if claiming in that situation makes sense (probably?) Since no kills were prevented last night - this is moot.
Pretty sure that the overall answer is - unless there is a scop who investigated scum last night - you should keep your mouth shut - although I'm not a expert.
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Cop should not claim early in the day, but rathwr try to talk the town into the correct lynch without claiming and then claim if that doesn't work.
Frisk, what did you FoS me for? What about that quote?
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Uuh less of a scum read on ashersky now actually, for two reasons.
1) I wasn't nightkilled despite my case against him (mafia might just want me around thoughn given my performances in VII and murder mystery..)
This is an interesting line of reasoning actually. Why were neither Eevee or Geolib killed? I get pro-town reads off of both of them and killing them would have made another player look bad. Killing Eevee would make ashersky look bad, and possibly set him up for lynch. Killing Geolib would make Morgrim look bad possibly setting Morgrim up for a lynch. There's various roads to go down here. If Eevee or Geolib were scum they obviously wouldn't kill themselves. If Morgrim or ashersky were scum they might want to spare their antagonizer to make themselves look better. However, they all would have had an incentive to kill the antagonizer in the other pair. What do you guys think? Is this too complex to be worthy of consideration?
Oh it's getting loltastic how much I post here. Sorry for being borderline spammy!
No worries! Analysis is not spam.
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Why did scum choose O? He only suspected Robz (right?), so I can't think who this makes look scummy. It's interesting (and not necessarily bad at all) scum chose to serve us any WIFOM but went for O instead. Probably they feared he'd catch them still, despite his bad Robz read. They seemsto be going for the mafia VII route where they kill of the experienced guys first, hopefully this town can do better than that town did!
Big FOS: eeVee for even asking this question - seeing as you lived it already.
I don't really follow this line of reasoning, but maybe it's because I haven't read MVII. Care to elaborate?
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Thinking about who would be scared of experienced players seems like a dead end though.
Why is this a dead end? Should be obvious, right? Me, you, ashersky, geolib.
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Thinking about who would be scared of experienced players seems like a dead end though.
Why is this a dead end? Should be obvious, right? Me, you, ashersky, geolib.
Experienced players could be afraid of other experienced players just as easily.
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Thinking about who would be scared of experienced players seems like a dead end though.
Why is this a dead end? Should be obvious, right? Me, you, ashersky, geolib.
But experienced players could also be argued to be scared of experienced players, because they would know their skill level.
ninja'd
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Why did scum choose O? He only suspected Robz (right?), so I can't think who this makes look scummy. It's interesting (and not necessarily bad at all) scum chose to serve us any WIFOM but went for O instead. Probably they feared he'd catch them still, despite his bad Robz read. They seemsto be going for the mafia VII route where they kill of the experienced guys first, hopefully this town can do better than that town did!
Big FOS: eeVee for even asking this question - seeing as you lived it already.
I don't really follow this line of reasoning, but maybe it's because I haven't read MVII. Care to elaborate?
So - his question is: Why kill O?
In M7 - the n00bs systematically eraticated all of the experienced players. It was amazing. There's 1 reason for an O kill right there.
The 2nd (potential) reason for an O kill is that he's a headstrong player. Once he makes up his mind, he's a tough man to argue with. Is this the type of player that scum want around? Yes if you get lucky and O locks onto town (RobZ in this case). Not as much if he locks onto scum. It's much safer to get rid of him and watch as the followers kindof mull around without direction.
In M7 - Timchen aggressively drove the Galz lynch - and then was night killed that night. In the QT - I was shocked. (Just like geolib was confused) I thought for sure that scum would leave timchen alive because his lynch would be so easy.
See my post #47 and the following discussion.
http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/yYhZLqUBFu4
I assume that eevee read the QTs. He knows why killing O makes some sense. Him asking why O was killed as an opening post is strange.
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I did say "not necessarily bad at all", which in my english implies I thought it was an unexpected but pretty smart kill.
Again, why the FoS? For not mentioning it looks a lot like the timchen kill in MVII?
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I did say "not necessarily bad at all", which in my english implies I thought it was an unexpected but pretty smart kill.
Again, why the FoS? For not mentioning it looks a lot like the timchen kill in MVII?
You did - but somehow I parsed the entire message as not understanding why. Can I dial the finger back to a small fos?
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K. Checking in again.
Couple things I've noticed/want to respond to.
I have not read M7, Frisk, so no need to point fingers :P
I agree with Jorbles, that it is not so obvious that newbish scum would be most afraid of experienced town. In fact, upon reflection, I think it's quite the opposite. An experienced scum has played other games with the experienced player, who probably knows their playstyle. Also, being the only experienced player increases ones power in the game. Do you notice how we (the newbs) have been relying on Eevee, O, Robz, and Frisk to provide us with information about previous games and general information about how the game works? Well two of those people are gone now, increasing how much the other two can steer the town.
I agree that we would have been unlikely to lynch O. Despite his hardcore tunneling on a towny, I think many of us would have reasoned that it would be just too crazy a thing for scum or PR to do, which means we would have treated him as semi-confirmed VT. That's actually what surprises me most about the O NK, is that almost everyone who'd read him said he was probably VT, which means the scum either a) didn't notice these reads b) decided O was worth killing even though he was unlikely to be a PR c) thought that semi-confirmed VT was a more powerful asset to town than a PR d) Thought O had so much chutzpah that he would play like that as a PR
As much as I like Eevee's congeniality, he has already encouraged us not to base our reads off of personality, and I don't want to let this get buried. After I accused Eevee in my post 'o quotes, he congratulated me on suspecting him, in a sort of win-over-with-flattery type way and then moves on. I want to know what you guys think about it, and make sure it doesn't get buried.
@GeoLib
Haha, obviously no one is going to get lynched before tomorrow. I don't really know how to address your case since.. yeah, those quotes are from me? I believe I was pretty spot on with Robz and in the end finally realized it was not a smart lynch, but it was too late. I stand by everything I said about him yesterday though Actually, props to you for suspecting me because I actually agree my yesterday's end game behavior could easily be interpreted as scummy. Hopefully you'll remember my earlier stuff too and that will clear me some!
Coupled with my realization that eliminating O gives the other experienced players more sway, I think Eevee looks suspicious.
Next. I agree with Captain Frisk and Eevee about role claims.
Doctor should not claim unless it is the only way to prevent his lynch (or perhaps to out scum fake-claim. Is that worth it?)
Cop should claim on two scum investigations immediately. Should try to steer town in the direction of one and claim if necessary. Should try to steer town away from investigated townies. Am I correct that cop only gets alignment and not role? Should tell us investigation results as reads somewhere in thread not too obvious, so that when he flips we get his info.
Jailkeeper is tough... Regardless. At present the jailer obviously doesn't have any information.
I agree it seems unlikely that Robz would get lynched with 0 scum on the wagon. Also, if I were scum, I would probably make sure that we weren't both on the wagon, but a newbie scum might have made a mistake, so we should bear that in mind.
Morgrim!! I don't care if you're upset about being VT. Over half of the people in this game were VT and all of us are playing normally. Post something other than repeated your VT claim or I will tunnel you harder than O tunneled Robz. I still sort of think we should lynch Morgrim actually. I'm still with Robz that this seems like he's playing the "crazy Morgrim" role because this is just ridiculous.
Speaking of over half VT, we are now two down, plus two scum, plus one mafia rolecop investigee. With some quick and dirty math (I can write it out if you guys care):
Even if we scum-lynch or no-lynch, there is a 55% chance that the scum will hit a PR tomorrow with their NK.
If we lynch VT, then it's a 63% chance.
If we lynch a PR then well, that's a 100% that we'll have a dead PR. :(
I just think we should bear in mind that we'll likely lose a PR soon.
On the bright side, if I pick one of you at random and tunnel hardcore, there's a 1/3 chance you're scum!
That's all from me for now. I really have stuff to do and will maybe post here one more time today. If not I will be back to post on Wednesday eastern time, probably in the evening.
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Ok, I've been thinking about this for awhile now and I think we're in a situation where the NK didn't actually give us a huge amount of info to go on. I think we should be analyzing the voting patterns from Robz's lynch.
Going with Frisk's scenarios, which I don't see any problem with.
The other thing we haven't brought up here, is looking at the wagons.
People who voted for RobZ - these people look naturally scummier because they contributed to the death of town.
O, Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7, ashersky
People who didn't:
RobZ, GeoLib, eevee, Jorbles
We have 2 scum, who could have been on the wagons as follows:
1. Both voted to kill RobZ
2. Both voted to not kill RobZ
3. They split - one for and one against.
Now - consider each of those buckets - and think about (from scum's perspective) options a and b.
a. Kill someone who voted for RobZ
b. Kill someone who didn't
1a - This leaves 2 scum who voted for RobZ left in the scummy pool of 4 people remaining (50% chance of hitting scum if we investigate on the wagon), and a 0% chance of hitting scum if we investigate off the wagon.
1b - 2/5 40% chance of hitting scum on the wagon, 0/2 hitting off the wagon
2a - 0/4 chance of hitting scum on the wagon, 2/3 chance of hitting scum off the wagon
2b - 0/5 chance of hitting scum on the wagon, 2/2 chance of hitting scum off
3a - 1/4 (25%) chance of hitting scum on the wagon, 1/3 (33%) chance of hitting scum off
3b - 1/5 (20%) chance of hitting scum on the wagon, 1/2 (50%) chance of hitting scum off
Conservative scum play is to aim for 3a. The default chance of hitting scum in a purely random lynch is 22% on day 1 (2/9) 3a keeps everything close and even - so that no matter which way town goes - the chances of hitting scum are reasonably low.
Option 2 is hard (lynching town without any scum). To be honest, I'm not sure if its ever happened before.
So - the question is - With all the B branches removed because of the scum kill - do you think that scum are aggressive enough to both vote for the lynch AND then also kill someone who lynched with them (option 1a)? I wouldn't say its impossible - but the only person I think that would be aggressive enough to do it in this game was already night killed. We do have some new players though.
With weekend gone - I'll try to be posting more frequently. I want to reread day 1 with the new perspective. I'd also like to hear something meaningful from Morgrim. We saved him by lynching the morgrim hunter, if we're going to treat him like a confirmed townie - then at least lets here what he has to say.
I find option 2 to be extremely unlikely. (From my perspective it would mean both Eevee and Geolib are scum, which I doubt. 1 maybe, but both? Nuh uh.) I'm going to rule it out. Our most probable scenarios are 1a and 3a.
I already pointed out that I think it's fairly clear I was going to hammer Robz. I'm open for plausible 1a scenarios (that being both scum were on the wagon), but 3a seems like better scum play. I still don't trust anyone on the wagon, and I think some of them are much scummier than those off the wagon, but it seems like better scum strategy for one to be on and one to be off. From that it seems more likely that either Eevee or Geolib is scum. This bothers me because it means I think I've been reading one of them wrong. What does everyone think?
Also, I think Geolib actually makes a good point that we have been relying on the more experienced players for information. That makes Frisk and Eevee look scummier. As they'd want to kill off the other potential information givers (Robz and O) to give themselves greater sway.
Also does anyone have strong arguments for anyone who was on the wagon (I guess include me in that scenario when you are considering it) I'm pretty sure one of them is scum. That only narrows it down (for me) to Frisk, ashersky, Morgrim and Cuzz. Frisk is slightly suspicious for the info in the previous paragraph, plus he did seem to vote for Robz without putting a huge amount of thought into it.
ashersky and Cuzz are both suspicious for their bandwagoning, but we already knew that. For now I am backing off a bit on ashersky, clearly I read Robz wrong, so maybe I read ash wrong too.
Morgrim is well... I thought he was vanilla town as he claimed, but it would really be great if he'd participate in the conversation more. I guess lurking and providing little info would be a totally valid scum tactic, but would anyone actually try it? It's so anti-town that it just seems to obvious.
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So I come back, and... One person has posted?
I think Jorbles analysis makes sense. I don't really have anything new to add because no one has posted (Where is everybody?) I agree that 3a is the most likely, and increases my suspicions of Eevee. There haven't been any votes today, and I think we should get things moving (not advocating a fast lynch, just some more discussion). Therefore, Vote: Eevee
I'll try to post here tomorrow, but might not get to it.
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Morgrim!! I don't care if you're upset about being VT. Over half of the people in this game were VT and all of us are playing normally. Post something other than repeated your VT claim or I will tunnel you harder than O tunneled Robz. I still sort of think we should lynch Morgrim actually. I'm still with Robz that this seems like he's playing the "crazy Morgrim" role because this is just ridiculous.
Speaking of over half VT, we are now two down, plus two scum, plus one mafia rolecop investigee. With some quick and dirty math (I can write it out if you guys care):
Even if we scum-lynch or no-lynch, there is a 55% chance that the scum will hit a PR tomorrow with their NK.
If we lynch VT, then it's a 63% chance.
If we lynch a PR then well, that's a 100% that we'll have a dead PR. :(
I just think we should bear in mind that we'll likely lose a PR soon.
On the bright side, if I pick one of you at random and tunnel hardcore, there's a 1/3 chance you're scum!
That's all from me for now. I really have stuff to do and will maybe post here one more time today. If not I will be back to post on Wednesday eastern time, probably in the evening.
First off, I don't care that you don't care. I do. :)
Second, well, I believe there was an argument made by C_F against Eevee that he didn't respond to, and I like Geolib's idea. Vote: Eevee.
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Ummm morgrim? That leaves scum with the option to quick hammer. It's probably bad scum play, but still dangerous.
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Someone unvote quick. I havent even defended myself wtf!!
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on phone cant post but if someone hammers, lynch him tomorrow no matter what.
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Vote Count 2-2
Eevee (2): GeoLib, Morgrim7
Not voting (5): Cuzz, Eevee, Captain_Frisk, ashersky, Jorbles
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, September 3, at noon EDT
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oh it wasnt l-1, its fine then.
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oh it wasnt l-1, its fine then.
Its fine-ish. Yes - scum could quick hammer 3-4, but its unlikely. My feeling is that while I do have pokemon suspicion, its certainly not time to end the day. Let's talk about our feelings people.
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oh it wasnt l-1, its fine then.
Its fine-ish. Yes - scum could quick hammer 3-4, but its unlikely. My feeling is that while I do have pokemon suspicion, its certainly not time to end the day. Let's talk about our feelings people.
I mean wtf, the case against me is flimsy at best, and the day has gone on for like two days, no it is not time to end the day yet. I'll reread everything and answer the best I can, although I have a feeling the case is so feeling-based and subjective it's going to be hard.
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Ok, so looking back perhaps this case doesn't make as much sense as I thought. But my recollection was that Eevee was saying that he thought Robz was probably town, but at the same time including little tidbits telling other people that basically there was no one else we could lynch D1, and that O was really smart and his case was excellent. Not necessarily saying we should lynch him, but just popped into my head, and I thought I should share.
So this is where it all started. In the end, I had a chance to hammer but rather decided to start the wagon on ashersky, which actually got pretty far.
Then, it is suggested O was killed to give the experienced players more power (so they are mafia). What can I say to this? I think O was just killed because no one now has any clue as to why that was, and also he was (at least in my mind, I said it numerous times yesterday) looking very very towny. My strongest town read from yesterday died, I don't know if that implicates me or not.
People who voted for Robz:
Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7, ashersky
People who didn't:
GeoLib, Eevee, Jorbles
I think it's very damn unlike they were both off the wagon (and I'd like to add I think this is always the case). I could see them both being on the wagon very easily, especially newer mafias might get eager and since lynching Robz yesterday was a thing to do, jumping in on the action wasn't really suspicious at all. I still think Morgrim looks towny though. Also got a slight town read on Frisk.
I think the most likely scenario still is that one was off and one was on, but I'm not sure.
You say you have been relying on more active players for information. I know I have answered a lot of questions and generally tried to provide as much info as possible, has any of that been bad this far? Am I being called out for being too helpful and not participating on a townie lynch now?
Jorbles said he'd hammer, so he sort of (would have) participated in a townie lynch too. Ashersky and Cuzz are still scummy for their bandwagoning-behavior I think. GeoLib is very agreeing, pacifistic and nice so it's hard to suspect him, but it's not like he is obvtown at all, could very well just be a cautious mafia.
First vote on me was to raise discussion, 2nd was morgrim being morgrim and joining every possible wagon, no one else has voted. Frisk did talk about "ending the day", implying he thinks we are close to the lynch which is interesting I think (yes he said he doesn't want to do it, but he planted the possibility in our minds now).
If you lynch a townie (like me) and someone dies at night, there'll be two mafias and three townies alive tomorrow. Is the case on me compelling enough to risk that? How many of you think today's lynch target has been found?
If you have any specific questions, fire away! I don't really know how to defend myself.
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oh it wasnt l-1, its fine then.
Its fine-ish. Yes - scum could quick hammer 3-4, but its unlikely.
This assumes both votes on Eevee now are from town. I don't think we can make that assumption safely.
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oh it wasnt l-1, its fine then.
Its fine-ish. Yes - scum could quick hammer 3-4, but its unlikely.
This assumes both votes on Eevee now are from town. I don't think we can make that assumption safely.
Quickhammering and completely killing the discussion now would look so ridiculously scummy it's not really a consideration. Just no one do it if you are town, and we are good. Of course I would prefer either of them unvoting seeing how I'm town, but it is what it is. Ashersky, what do you think about the case on me? If I'm not your biggest suspect, who is?
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Quickhammering and completely killing the discussion now would look so ridiculously scummy it's not really a consideration. Just no one do it if you are town, and we are good. Of course I would prefer either of them unvoting seeing how I'm town, but it is what it is. Ashersky, what do you think about the case on me? If I'm not your biggest suspect, who is?
I suppose I have plenty of reason to suspect you, not the least of which was your leading the charge for a wagon on me on D1. More, your initial reaction to the two votes on you was unbelievable, as I am sure you knew from the start you were not at L-1, but acted like you were. You're smart, and you would know it's 4 to lynch on D2, not 3. All sort of scummy to me.
I think Geolib needs a closer look, though, as he's been pristinely town in his posts, which I fell for at first, but now I suspect is more of a honey instead of vinegar play. I need to take a closer look at his D2 posts so far, and I don't think any of us have really been eyeing him as much as we need to.
Assuming both town claims are true (Morgrim and Eevee), that leaves (in suspicion order) Geo, Cuzz, Jorbles, and Frisk (and then me, I guess), as possible scum (or PRs). I'm not assuming the claims are true at this point though, especially since Eevee's came at L-2 instead of L-1, and Morgrim is Morgrim.
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If you lynch a townie (like me) and someone dies at night, there'll be two mafias and three townies alive tomorrow. Is the case on me compelling enough to risk that? How many of you think today's lynch target has been found?
Well - at least 2 have - and thats what makes me nervous. Personally - I feel its way too early in the day to have someone at L-2, but I guess as long as one of those people is morgrim we're safer.
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I was checking the thread with my phone, that's why I was confused about the amount of votes. You can notice the fact I was on phone from the lack of capitalization and also from me telling you. I think that's an excellent example of a mistake that is not at all scummy.. seriously, what on earth do you figure I was thinking "Okay, I'm going to pretend I'm at L-1, surely no one will notice I'm actually not!!". Makes absolutely no sense, does it?
Oh and you think me derailing the lynch of a confirmed townie (robz) by trying to introduce a new target (you) is scummy now? Uh?
Vote: ashersky, sorry buddy you are looking like you want to make me look bad even though you have nothing. Neither of those things is AT ALL damning!
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If you lynch a townie (like me) and someone dies at night, there'll be two mafias and three townies alive tomorrow. Is the case on me compelling enough to risk that? How many of you think today's lynch target has been found?
Well - at least 2 have - and thats what makes me nervous. Personally - I feel its way too early in the day to have someone at L-2, but I guess as long as one of those people is morgrim we're safer.
I don't really see it as a threat. It will be a problem if anyone votes for me now, but I'll say this one more time Hammering, whether you claim it was accidental or not, will be considered a scum action. Do not throw the decisive vote until town is absolutely ready! No cutting days short. Also, don't put anyone in L-1 unless you are absolutely sure you want it, better be safe than sorry. Saying something like "I would vote for him and probably will later, but.." will be sufficient, unless you try to weasel out of it in a scummy way later.
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^ Not all hammering obviously, but hammering when the deadline is still far and there is still obviously lots of talking to do.
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hmmmm... eevee vs. Ashersky.
eevee is off the wagon - which from a neutral observer is slightly scummier (if you assume that scum didn't cross wagons) - but from my perspective is neutral - I'm town - so the other 3 wagoners are 1/3 likely to be scum, and the off wagoners are also 1/3 likely.
Asher suspecting eevee for suspecting him feels scummier though.
@Ashersky - did eevee actually claim somewhere that I missed - or are you just referring to the generic "i'm town" claim that is implied for all players? (Vs. the morgrim explicit "I'm vanilla baby" claim)
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I haven't claimed anything, I try to hold off because I don't really see this life-threatening just yet. Got to protect the meta!
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I'm not at all sure about ashersky. But he sure is acting scummy! Seriously guys, read that last post!!
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Eevee, do you believe that during the Robz lynch there were two scum on the wagon then?
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Eevee, do you believe that during the Robz lynch there were two scum on the wagon then?
I don't have a strong opinion whether they both were on it or just one of them. Feels ~equally likely to me.
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I was checking the thread with my phone, that's why I was confused about the amount of votes. You can notice the fact I was on phone from the lack of capitalization and also from me telling you. I think that's an excellent example of a mistake that is not at all scummy.. seriously, what on earth do you figure I was thinking "Okay, I'm going to pretend I'm at L-1, surely no one will notice I'm actually not!!". Makes absolutely no sense, does it?
Oh and you think me derailing the lynch of a confirmed townie (robz) by trying to introduce a new target (you) is scummy now? Uh?
Vote: ashersky, sorry buddy you are looking like you want to make me look bad even though you have nothing. Neither of those things is AT ALL damning!
Wow, that was an unexpected response. I wrote a post outlining why I could highly suspect you, but temper that with reason and discuss the need to look at someone else, and you...get super defensive?
@Frisk: I will clarify that I don't suspect Eevee is scum because he suspects me. I did say that Eevee trying to start a wagon on me was a reason, which is different than Eevee's repeated claims that I'm scum. It's just as possible Eevee (as scum) knows I'm town and would push my lynch for that reason, right?
As for Eevee's claim that he was "derailing the lynch of a confirmed townie (Robz)" as a positive on his ledger strikes me as revisionist, since the only way he could have known for sure Robz was town on D1 was to be scum. So he was actually trying to derail the lynch of someone who ended up flipping town, which definitely reads differently.
Back to Eevee, your extreme overreaction to my post would be enough to make me comfortable putting you at L-1. I think it would be informative for the group if anyone unvotes or hammers right away. Still, it's early, and losing town wouldn't be helpful.
Does no one else feel like Geo (who, by the way, is voting for you, Eevee) deserves a closer look?
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Does no one else feel like Geo (who, by the way, is voting for you, Eevee) deserves a closer look?
I definitely do. As I outlined above from my perspective they were the two who made a point of being off the wagon on Robz. I don't see either of them as being more scummy than the other at this point. Eevee's panicked reaction to his possible lynch isn't any more suspicious to me than Geolib calling Eevee out. I'm actually surprised that Eevee isn't calling Geolib out, is there something to read there? If I were town and in their situation I would be looking strongly at the other one. Not going to vote for Eevee at this point. I think there's some merit to getting him to calm down and think this through a bit.
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I was checking the thread with my phone, that's why I was confused about the amount of votes. You can notice the fact I was on phone from the lack of capitalization and also from me telling you. I think that's an excellent example of a mistake that is not at all scummy.. seriously, what on earth do you figure I was thinking "Okay, I'm going to pretend I'm at L-1, surely no one will notice I'm actually not!!". Makes absolutely no sense, does it?
Oh and you think me derailing the lynch of a confirmed townie (robz) by trying to introduce a new target (you) is scummy now? Uh?
Vote: ashersky, sorry buddy you are looking like you want to make me look bad even though you have nothing. Neither of those things is AT ALL damning!
Wow, that was an unexpected response. I wrote a post outlining why I could highly suspect you, but temper that with reason and discuss the need to look at someone else, and you...get super defensive?
@Frisk: I will clarify that I don't suspect Eevee is scum because he suspects me. I did say that Eevee trying to start a wagon on me was a reason, which is different than Eevee's repeated claims that I'm scum. It's just as possible Eevee (as scum) knows I'm town and would push my lynch for that reason, right?
As for Eevee's claim that he was "derailing the lynch of a confirmed townie (Robz)" as a positive on his ledger strikes me as revisionist, since the only way he could have known for sure Robz was town on D1 was to be scum. So he was actually trying to derail the lynch of someone who ended up flipping town, which definitely reads differently.
Back to Eevee, your extreme overreaction to my post would be enough to make me comfortable putting you at L-1. I think it would be informative for the group if anyone unvotes or hammers right away. Still, it's early, and losing town wouldn't be helpful.
Does no one else feel like Geo (who, by the way, is voting for you, Eevee) deserves a closer look?
Uuh, I don't know if defensive is the right word. You were accusing me for reasons that just are not real, I pointed that out.
Scum has a motive to lynch townies, town wants to save them. I tried to save a townie by building an alternative wagon on you, obviously I didn't KNOW Robz was town, but what is your point? How do you read my actions then?
I do acknowledge the possibility of Geo being scum, but he just hasn't done anything scummy yet really. Voting for me with a case I understand completely does not make him scummy in my eyes. His reasons were ok, yours were not.
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Does no one else feel like Geo (who, by the way, is voting for you, Eevee) deserves a closer look?
I definitely do. As I outlined above from my perspective they were the two who made a point of being off the wagon on Robz. I don't see either of them as being more scummy than the other at this point. Eevee's panicked reaction to his possible lynch isn't any more suspicious to me than Geolib calling Eevee out. I'm actually surprised that Eevee isn't calling Geolib out, is there something to read there? If I were town and in their situation I would be looking strongly at the other one. Not going to vote for Eevee at this point. I think there's some merit to getting him to calm down and think this through a bit.
Oh I'm not really freaked out at all! Just really think ashersky's reasons are bs. Sorry if this seems like I'm upset, I really am not.
Suspecting GeoLib for doing the exact thing I did (staying off the Robz wagon, Robz who flipped town) is just not the best direction at the moment I don't think. Like, I don't think of a way to catch him atm if he is scum. He has done nothing scummy! Not voting for a townie is definitely ok in my books, so is starting today's discussion by presenting a reasonable case and voting for me. He is wrong about me, sometimes townies are. Unless he starts acting scummier, I don't think I'll be voting for him, even though he could very well be scum. Also he seems pretty useful to have around.
Ashersky, Cuzz and Jorbles are my three main suspects at the moment, in that order.
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eevee - why do you clear GeoLib but not Jorbles? Because Jorbles states he would have voted RobZ?
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eevee - why do you clear GeoLib but not Jorbles? Because Jorbles states he would have voted RobZ?
I do not clear GeoLib, I don't mean to say that. I mean to say I don't find his actions scummy this far, so I can't get sure enough to bring myself to vote for him.
Jorbles repeatedly said he would hammer (would have hammered) if needed, so he is quite different. But saying that is sort of townish, he could have smugly stayed off the wagon but didn't want to.
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eevee - why do you clear GeoLib but not Jorbles? Because Jorbles states he would have voted RobZ?
I do not clear GeoLib, I don't mean to say that. I mean to say I don't find his actions scummy this far, so I can't get sure enough to bring myself to vote for him.
Jorbles repeatedly said he would hammer (would have hammered) if needed, so he is quite different. But saying that is sort of townish, he could have smugly stayed off the wagon but didn't want to.
Why do view cuzz with suspicion?
So - in my mind not voting for town doesn't really get town points. The only people who knew that RobZ was town for sure are the scum. I view you, geolib and jorbles as all equally scummy. I can't decide if Jorbles' claiming that he would have vote is a scum hedge or true town honesty.
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Frisk, if this doesn't convince you I can't really offer anything else.
... I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"
I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.
I was willing to hammer, but I wanted to delay for the vote of the majority of players for two reasons. The first is that I wanted to be sure that most people thought discussion wouldn't help us much anymore. I think most people did, but I wanted to be sure. The second is that I thought we might be able to analyze people's votes here if they were unusual. Only, Geolib, O and my own implied vote ended up happening though so we didn't end up getting much info, and none of us voted surprisingly.
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Frisk, if this doesn't convince you I can't really offer anything else.
... I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"
I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.
I was willing to hammer, but I wanted to delay for the vote of the majority of players for two reasons. The first is that I wanted to be sure that most people thought discussion wouldn't help us much anymore. I think most people did, but I wanted to be sure. The second is that I thought we might be able to analyze people's votes here if they were unusual. Only, Geolib, O and my own implied vote ended up happening though so we didn't end up getting much info, and none of us voted surprisingly.
Ok - so you'd rather define the wagons as the following?
For: Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7, ashersky, Jorbles
Against: Eevee, geolib
Where do you think the scum are in those 2 groups?
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Frisk, if this doesn't convince you I can't really offer anything else.
... I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"
I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.
I was willing to hammer, but I wanted to delay for the vote of the majority of players for two reasons. The first is that I wanted to be sure that most people thought discussion wouldn't help us much anymore. I think most people did, but I wanted to be sure. The second is that I thought we might be able to analyze people's votes here if they were unusual. Only, Geolib, O and my own implied vote ended up happening though so we didn't end up getting much info, and none of us voted surprisingly.
This doesn't make much sense to me. Lynching already happens by majority vote. What's the point in waiting for a meta-vote on whether someone should hammer? Why would the breakdown of that discussion differ at all from the actual vote?
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@Frisk
I'd say that it's more likely that one would be off and one would be on. I don't have a scummy read on either of Eevee or Geolib at this point, odds are good that I will be voting for one of them at the end of the day, but since I don't know which one yet I guess I don't really have a lot to add to that thought line right now. I will reread some of the older posts before the day is done and see if I can form a stronger opinion.
[Edit: I see Cuzz has written something.]
@Cuzz
I wanted something else to analyze after the vote. Maybe it was a waste of time, but I thought it might be useful if someone voted differently from how they were actually voting. (For example, if you had called for more time without taking your vote off or if Eevee had said to hammer but wouldn't hammer himself.)
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I appreciate Jorbles waiting, maybe the ashersky wagon would have gotten stronger with more time. I'm generally opposed to lynches well before the deadline, not that this one was particularly bad.
@Frisk
Most of the guys alive are newer players, even I don't think scum necessarily wants to avoid a wagon like Robz's at all costs. I think it would be different if it was started by mafia, but O made it REALLY easy for them. I think you all focusing your search to off-wagon is a huge mistake today. I think we have a better chance at finding scum from the wagon.
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Ok. I'm back and on Eastern time now.
I'm glad my post stirred some things up. I will try to address most of what has happened.
Ok, really Morgrim. Sheeping me and voting is not the same as a meaningful contribution. I mean, it's better than before, but still not really very helpful. Luckily though, it caused some posting which I think is good. So indirect benefit.
I don't think Eevee thinking that he was at L-1 was at all scummy given that he said he was on his phone, and Frisk had just said this
That leaves scum with the option to quick hammer.
Panicking that people are about to lynch you without giving you any time to defend yourself is totally reasonable. I completely agree that it is not time to end the day, and will consider quickhammering a scum move and vote accordingly tomorrow (Game time).
Neither do I think that attempting to start a wagon on Ashersky yesterday was scummy. Looking for other potential wagons when you think the current one is on a townie is certainly not a bad idea.
Eevee's Response to my Accusations:
You say you have been relying on more active players for information. I know I have answered a lot of questions and generally tried to provide as much info as possible, has any of that been bad this far? Am I being called out for being too helpful and not participating on a townie lynch now?
First vote on me was to raise discussion, 2nd was morgrim being morgrim and joining every possible wagon, no one else has voted. Frisk did talk about "ending the day", implying he thinks we are close to the lynch which is interesting I think (yes he said he doesn't want to do it, but he planted the possibility in our minds now).
If you lynch a townie (like me) and someone dies at night, there'll be two mafias and three townies alive tomorrow. Is the case on me compelling enough to risk that? How many of you think today's lynch target has been found?
If you have any specific questions, fire away! I don't really know how to defend myself.
I don't think responding to the questions is scummy. I agree that you have been very helpful, and I appreciate it. Obviously I don't find you scummy for not lynching town. My points were this:
1. With O gone, the power of the other experienced players to steer the game increases. This is motive for you and/or Frisk to NK O.
2. Yesterday you appeared to denounce a Robz lynch while simultaneously saying subtly that it was inevitable and a good idea.
Neither of these is damning evidence. Others have motives to NK O, and your actions yesterday could easily be those of a townie who was conflicted on Robz alignment (head vs. heart, as you said, or gut vs. brain or something like that). However, together they made you appear slightly scummy to me, so I decided to vote to get things moving, and I believe I was successful.
Is your last point saying that we shouldn't lynch you or that we shouldn't lynch anyone now? I agree it's not lynching time. Obviously if we lynch a townie we're sort of screwed (see below).
Its fine-ish. Yes - scum could quick hammer 3-4, but its unlikely.
This assumes both votes on Eevee now are from town. I don't think we can make that assumption safely.
Obviously, Frisk was saying that scum could quickhammer if Morgrim and I were both town. He was not assuming we were. I just think this point doesn't make a lot of sense. Putting someone at L-2 means that scum could potentially quickhammer. This isn't so dangerous today, as they would certainly be lynched tomorrow. Tomorrow, however, it could be important. If we lynch town, and scum successfully NK, then we will be in lylo and any vote will allow scum to quickhammer and win. Remember this tomorrow.
Quickhammering and completely killing the discussion now would look so ridiculously scummy it's not really a consideration. Just no one do it if you are town, and we are good. Of course I would prefer either of them unvoting seeing how I'm town, but it is what it is. Ashersky, what do you think about the case on me? If I'm not your biggest suspect, who is?
I suppose I have plenty of reason to suspect you, not the least of which was your leading the charge for a wagon on me on D1. More, your initial reaction to the two votes on you was unbelievable, as I am sure you knew from the start you were not at L-1, but acted like you were. You're smart, and you would know it's 4 to lynch on D2, not 3. All sort of scummy to me.
I think Geolib needs a closer look, though, as he's been pristinely town in his posts, which I fell for at first, but now I suspect is more of a honey instead of vinegar play. I need to take a closer look at his D2 posts so far, and I don't think any of us have really been eyeing him as much as we need to.
Assuming both town claims are true (Morgrim and Eevee), that leaves (in suspicion order) Geo, Cuzz, Jorbles, and Frisk (and then me, I guess), as possible scum (or PRs). I'm not assuming the claims are true at this point though, especially since Eevee's came at L-2 instead of L-1, and Morgrim is Morgrim.
As I said before, him voting for you on D1 is not a scumtell. Voting is not a scumtell. I mean, seriously? Also above, getting confused, especially in light of Frisk's comment and his phone posting (which he mentioned in his post) is not scummy at all. What is this brilliant plot you think Eevee has? To pretend he's at L1 so that...what? This is almost as good as his D1 plot to pull suspicion off his scumpartner, Robz, by putting it on himself. When did Eevee just become this devious criminal mastermind.
Addressing your case against me... Wait, what? It's that I'm "pristinely town?" By all means review my posts, and I'm certainly not saying write me off as obvtown because I have towny posts (although it would be good for town because I am town), but since when did being towny become a scumtell?
Ant then what, assuming both town claims are true? You mean Eevee saying that he was town? I AM TOWN. Did I move to the bottom of your suspicious list? I shouldn't've because that's not really a claim... (although it's true)
Moving on from that... I mean, I'm sorry ashersky, but that post was just a mess of ridiculousness.
Oh wait, the next weird thing is from ashersky too...
I was checking the thread with my phone, that's why I was confused about the amount of votes. You can notice the fact I was on phone from the lack of capitalization and also from me telling you. I think that's an excellent example of a mistake that is not at all scummy.. seriously, what on earth do you figure I was thinking "Okay, I'm going to pretend I'm at L-1, surely no one will notice I'm actually not!!". Makes absolutely no sense, does it?
Oh and you think me derailing the lynch of a confirmed townie (robz) by trying to introduce a new target (you) is scummy now? Uh?
Vote: ashersky, sorry buddy you are looking like you want to make me look bad even though you have nothing. Neither of those things is AT ALL damning!
Wow, that was an unexpected response. I wrote a post outlining why I could highly suspect you, but temper that with reason and discuss the need to look at someone else, and you...get super defensive?
@Frisk: I will clarify that I don't suspect Eevee is scum because he suspects me. I did say that Eevee trying to start a wagon on me was a reason, which is different than Eevee's repeated claims that I'm scum. It's just as possible Eevee (as scum) knows I'm town and would push my lynch for that reason, right?
As for Eevee's claim that he was "derailing the lynch of a confirmed townie (Robz)" as a positive on his ledger strikes me as revisionist, since the only way he could have known for sure Robz was town on D1 was to be scum. So he was actually trying to derail the lynch of someone who ended up flipping town, which definitely reads differently.
Back to Eevee, your extreme overreaction to my post would be enough to make me comfortable putting you at L-1. I think it would be informative for the group if anyone unvotes or hammers right away. Still, it's early, and losing town wouldn't be helpful.
Does no one else feel like Geo (who, by the way, is voting for you, Eevee) deserves a closer look?
So as outlined above, I don't think your post was "tempered by reason and discussion." I don't think you provided any reasons why you could "highly suspect" him either. As scum, he would be unlikely to derail the lynch of a townie is the point. He didn't actually derail it, but starting another wagon looks towny to me, although it could be scum trying to make himself look townie. Threatening to put him at L-1 now? Really? For the record, I would unvote as soon as I saw that because I do not think anyone should be at L-1 this early.
To your last point, I say certainly examine me and come back with your results. That would be a towny thing to do. And was reminding Eevee that I was voting for him supposed to make him flip to your side or something. That would be hugely OMGUS.
I agree with Eevee that I think both scum on wagon is far more likely than both scum off, so I'm not completely sure why we're looking way more closely at people who didn't lynch a townie. My reasons for voting Eevee did not include that he wasn't on the wagon.
I'm not sure I like Frisk's redefinition of the wagon, especially given the assumption that one was on and one was off. In my mind, that makes Eevee certain scum, which I am not prepared to say.
Frisk, if this doesn't convince you I can't really offer anything else.
... I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"
I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.
I was willing to hammer, but I wanted to delay for the vote of the majority of players for two reasons. The first is that I wanted to be sure that most people thought discussion wouldn't help us much anymore. I think most people did, but I wanted to be sure. The second is that I thought we might be able to analyze people's votes here if they were unusual. Only, Geolib, O and my own implied vote ended up happening though so we didn't end up getting much info, and none of us voted surprisingly.
This doesn't make much sense to me. Lynching already happens by majority vote. What's the point in waiting for a meta-vote on whether someone should hammer? Why would the breakdown of that discussion differ at all from the actual vote?
Because just because you want to vote for someone does not mean that you think the day should end and they should be lynched. I'm voting for Eevee right now, but I have stated numerous times that I am not prepared to lynch him.
I'd say that it's more likely that one would be off and one would be on. I don't have a scummy read on either of Eevee or Geolib at this point, odds are good that I will be voting for one of them at the end of the day, but since I don't know which one yet I guess I don't really have a lot to add to that thought line right now. I will reread some of the older posts before the day is done and see if I can form a stronger opinion.
When did the options become me and Eevee? I think scum are more likely to be on the wagon than off. Not saying they couldn't be off, but I think both off is extremely unlikely and both on is fairly likely. I agree with Eevee that searching exclusively off wagon seems really backward to me.
Let's say both scum on and one on one off are equally likely. Then, from an objective perspective:
Those on the wagon have a 37.5% chance of being scum, and those off the wagon have a 16.7% chance of being scum. If my math is write, then why are we looking off the wagon? Those on are more than twice as likely to be scum.
I think my vote on Eevee served to get things moving, but the one who came out looking scummy was not Eevee. I still think he is suspicious, but no longer the most suspicious.
With all of the above in mind, vote:ashersky
In addition to above. Eevee makes the point that delaying the Robz lynch might have allowed the ashersky wagon to build, but asher's hammer didn't let it.
With that wall of text out of the way. I'm going to bed. On eastern time now. I will try to keep posting thoroughly, but I have actual things to do now, so it may be less frequent.
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First of all, great post Geo, we agree on a lot of points and you argue them a lot better than I do. Got a pretty big town read from that post, I acknowledge scum would want to appear helpful (and might even unvote me to gain cred) so not treating you as obvtown but definitely my least favorite lynch target for today either way.
2ndly, as I said, I think your reasons for voting me were perfectly reasonable. That's why I didn't OMGUS you, because nightkilling O would in reality have been a clever and plausible scum tactic. A scum team with me or Frisk in it could very well have done just that! I especially liked how you didn't find the actually townie things I have done scummy (unlike ashersky).
Now ashersky on the other hand, while doesn't join the wagon on me, definitely implies he is interested in participating in it. (Maybe he didn't jump on it yet because he realized GeoLib wasn't exactly convinced yet, and would have unvoted if I made it to L-1 this early.) And the reasons for his vote are just really fabricated and feel sort of forced. Now, sure, ashersky could be a mistaken townie, but tunneling me blindly like that just looks he really wanted my wagon to pick off, and scum tends to have those feelings towards townies that argue they are scum. Note, ashersky's mafia team might just have decided killing me at night is going to look too obvious, it's bit of a WIFOM but that's the first level which I and I'm sure others often fall back to trying to avoid overthinking simple things.
One more thing, I explicitly made sure not to claim VT (or any other role), so ashersky's "If we believe their claims" bit looks like a scumslip to me.. because all I claimed was to be town, and everyone is implying that at this point.. only scum is unsure what they are going to claim yet. Does this make sense?
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I thought about quoting Geo's mega-post, but gave up. I also note that Eevee has since responded while I typed this response. So I suppose I can just reply to you both.
Clearly we disagree on what we think is and isn't scummy. But hey, this is my first game, and first time reading every single post in a running game, so maybe I just don't get it. But really, anyone could be scum and say/act any way they want, so I would think anyone's opinions could be valid.
I will note a few things from Geo's post that are interesting to me. You say, bolded even, that <b>voting is not a scumtell</b>. I'm going to assume that since you bolded it, you feel pretty strongly that the statement is true. If so, why look at who voted when for whom? As you say, <b>voting is not a scumtell</b>, so you can't seriously take people's votes into account, right? Seems farfetched to me, and maybe you didn't really mean it. Surely, not all voting means something, but some votes do. That's why we look at who voted, right?
Geo seemed to take offense at the pristine town read. Many of your posts are holier-than-thou saintly, trying to seem (to me) like you are so very town; the mayor of the town, even. Reading mega-town isn't a bad thing, right? Maybe you really are saintly. I don't know. I was definitely sold on it by the end of D1.
Geo, you also seem to be a big fan of Eevee now. You thank him directly in your post for being helpful. You have clearly joined him in the lynch me brigade. You said you would have unvoted right away if Eevee had been taken to L-1 (note: he was not), then unvoted anyway by the end of your post. You both point out that I said I was willing to put Eevee at L-1, but didn't, and said that was scummy. (Wait, voting is not a scumtell, but not voting is?) Just saying I would do it elicited a response, so I figure it was worth saying.
You two seem like a team to me, at least on this. Your posts have set each other up nicely.
Really though, what can I say? You are both way, way off on me, and lynching me would be a mistake. Maybe it's my writing style, maybe it's me being new, maybe you just don't like me. One thing I do know, I definitely can't vote for anyone at this point, even if voting is not a scumtell, since I'm pretty sure you'd say it was scummy of me to vote for anyone.
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Vote Count 2-3
Eevee (1): Morgrim7
ashersky (2): Eevee, Geolib
Not voting (4): Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, ashersky, Jorbles
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, September 3, at noon EDT
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You two seem like a team to me, at least on this. Your posts have set each other up nicely.
I'm a bit too sleepy to write a long post tonight, but a scum team being the first two on a wagon seems like terrible scum strategy to me (WIFOM!).
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Voting for a townie in and itself is not a scumtell, obviously. Townies are not privy to the information of who their team mates are. Voting for flimsy and fabricated reasons however is a scum tell, as that is exactly what scum needs to do a lot. Now, everybody votes like that in RVS, and that is okay. But this is not RVS! Votes are very serious accusations here. You accusing me for reasons that are not worthy of a vote (at all, if I might add) makes me wonder. Maybe you are just a badly mistaken townie, and I'm sorry if that's the case.
Everyone else, thoughts on the situation? Might as well weed out ashersky's buddy when we are at it.
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You two seem like a team to me, at least on this. Your posts have set each other up nicely.
I'm a bit too sleepy to write a long post tonight, but a scum team being the first two on a wagon seems like terrible scum strategy to me (WIFOM!).
Yeah, the GeoLib&Eevee - pairing argument is.. not very convincing. Ashersky, if you offer others two possible scenarios that would explain the situation, and they are both me and Geo being scum, or just you being scum, I think you'll find yourself backed into a corner rather quickly.
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Voting for a townie in and itself is not a scumtell, obviously. Townies are not privy to the information of who their team mates are. <b>Voting for flimsy and fabricated reasons however is a scum tell, as that is exactly what scum needs to do a lot.</b> Now, everybody votes like that in RVS, and that is okay. But this is not RVS! <b>Votes are very serious accusations here.</b> You accusing me for reasons that are not worthy of a vote (at all, if I might add) makes me wonder. Maybe you are just a badly mistaken townie, and I'm sorry if that's the case.
Everyone else, thoughts on the situation? Might as well weed out ashersky's buddy when we are at it.
Two sentences on voting I bolded for emphasis. Man, I didn't vote. I haven't voted in a long time. I don't think I've even voted on D2. Saying I think you are scummy and voting for you are separate. I only did one of those things. Also, you are mistaken on that first bolded line--as Geo has informed us, <b>voting is not a scumtell</b>.
It's all well and good for you to think I'm mistaken about you, and for me to know you are mistaken about me. In the end, you can probably muster the votes (I'm not even trying to build a wagon), given your experience and authority. And then, when I flip, I wonder how folks will feel about you.
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Voting for a townie in and itself is not a scumtell, obviously. Townies are not privy to the information of who their team mates are. <b>Voting for flimsy and fabricated reasons however is a scum tell, as that is exactly what scum needs to do a lot.</b> Now, everybody votes like that in RVS, and that is okay. But this is not RVS! <b>Votes are very serious accusations here.</b> You accusing me for reasons that are not worthy of a vote (at all, if I might add) makes me wonder. Maybe you are just a badly mistaken townie, and I'm sorry if that's the case.
Everyone else, thoughts on the situation? Might as well weed out ashersky's buddy when we are at it.
Two sentences on voting I bolded for emphasis. Man, I didn't vote. I haven't voted in a long time. I don't think I've even voted on D2. Saying I think you are scummy and voting for you are separate. I only did one of those things. Also, you are mistaken on that first bolded line--as Geo has informed us, <b>voting is not a scumtell</b>.
It's all well and good for you to think I'm mistaken about you, and for me to know you are mistaken about me. In the end, you can probably muster the votes (I'm not even trying to build a wagon), given your experience and authority. And then, when I flip, I wonder how folks will feel about you.
I am explaining what (I think) GeoLib meant when he said that. You said I was scummy for voting you yesterday, and accused me of voting you instead of GeoLib today (when he was the one that actually voted for me when you merely implied you'd do it later). I pointed out why your implied vote was scummy, but my vote yesterday or GeoLibs today weren't.
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You two seem like a team to me, at least on this. Your posts have set each other up nicely.
I'm a bit too sleepy to write a long post tonight, but a scum team being the first two on a wagon seems like terrible scum strategy to me (WIFOM!).
Yeah, the GeoLib&Eevee - pairing argument is.. not very convincing. Ashersky, if you offer others two possible scenarios that would explain the situation, and they are both me and Geo being scum, or just you being scum, I think you'll find yourself backed into a corner rather quickly.
Who said scum team? I didn't. I said team (on lynching me). Town teams up all the time to lynch people. Frisk and I could form a team to remember Morgrim. I point all this out because I specifically took care to NOT say scum team in my post, and even edited out language that could have been taken that way.
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I am explaining what (I think) GeoLib meant when he said that. You said I was scummy for voting you yesterday, and accused me of voting you instead of GeoLib today (when he was the one that actually voted for me when you merely implied you'd do it later). I pointed out why your implied vote was scummy, but my vote yesterday or GeoLibs today weren't.
When did I say you voted me <i>instead</i> of Geo? I asked why you (and others) weren't taking a closer look after I suggested we do so. I looked back and didn't see me calling for Geo votes.
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You two seem like a team to me, at least on this. Your posts have set each other up nicely.
I'm a bit too sleepy to write a long post tonight, but a scum team being the first two on a wagon seems like terrible scum strategy to me (WIFOM!).
Yeah, the GeoLib&Eevee - pairing argument is.. not very convincing. Ashersky, if you offer others two possible scenarios that would explain the situation, and they are both me and Geo being scum, or just you being scum, I think you'll find yourself backed into a corner rather quickly.
Who said scum team? I didn't. I said team (on lynching me). Town teams up all the time to lynch people. Frisk and I could form a team to remember Morgrim. I point all this out because I specifically took care to NOT say scum team in my post, and even edited out language that could have been taken that way.
I misunderstood then, sorry. We are not intentionally teaming up I don't think, we just notice the same scummy patterns in your behavior and call you out on it. I'm very interested to hear what others think about this, and have asked everyone to weigh in when they get online.
I am explaining what (I think) GeoLib meant when he said that. You said I was scummy for voting you yesterday, and accused me of voting you instead of GeoLib today (when he was the one that actually voted for me when you merely implied you'd do it later). I pointed out why your implied vote was scummy, but my vote yesterday or GeoLibs today weren't.
When did I say you voted me <i>instead</i> of Geo? I asked why you (and others) weren't taking a closer look after I suggested we do so. I looked back and didn't see me calling for Geo votes.
Geo, you also seem to be a big fan of Eevee now. You thank him directly in your post for being helpful. You have clearly joined him in the lynch me brigade. You said you would have unvoted right away if Eevee had been taken to L-1 (note: he was not), then unvoted anyway by the end of your post. You both point out that I said I was willing to put Eevee at L-1, but didn't, and said that was scummy. (Wait, voting is not a scumtell, but not voting is?) Just saying I would do it elicited a response, so I figure it was worth saying.
Do you disagree with my general assessment of voting behaviors and scumminess earlier? Or do you just think I'm seeing the events in this game wrong?
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Do you disagree with my general assessment of voting behaviors and scumminess earlier? Or do you just think I'm seeing the events in this game wrong?
I think your point about when votes (and implied votes) are and are not scummy is a valid way of looking at them, if we are generally speaking about how to think about things, and you make good observations throughout the game. Of course, I think your assessment of my behavior is off, since you assess me as scummy. I've been poking fun at Geo's bolded statement because it clearly isn't true all the time, so it just seems silly.
I think the way someone votes (or unvotes, or threatens to vote), and when, are worth noting, and can be either scummy or not, or neither. I think you would agree with that statement. (And so would Geo, I bet).
I'm sorry my expression of willingness to put you at L-1 without actually doing it came off as scummy, because I didn't mean it as a scum move. I thought, in fact, that it was the right thing to do to ensure that you weren't lynched unexpectedly, but could keep the conversation going, not only on you, but others. In a way, that worked, since we're talking about me now, plus some about Geo, and you are both well within your rights to suspect me, or anyone else.
I just suggest it should be someone else. There's still Morgrim, Frisk, Jorbles, and Cuzz in this game, but we've revolved on you and me all day. Who in that list sticks out as benefiting from this?
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Can't address everything, but I wanted to clarify, that I meant "Voting [by itself] is not a scumtell." Obviously voting patterns are extremely relevant, but you accusing Eevee of being scum for voting for you didn't make much sense to me. I would also like to hear others' thoughts on this. Anyone else care to weigh in?
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Wow that's alot of content for a Wednesday morning.
Couple of things that stood out:
I'm not sure I like Frisk's redefinition of the wagon, especially given the assumption that one was on and one was off. In my mind, that makes Eevee certain scum, which I am not prepared to say.
I wasn't trying to redefine the wagon - but rather understand Jorble's statement. I don't understand why he would want to make it clear that he would / could have been on the other side other than to make it harder to classify his position.
I think my vote on Eevee served to get things moving, but the one who came out looking scummy was not Eevee. I still think he is suspicious, but no longer the most suspicious.
With all of the above in mind, vote:ashersky
In addition to above. Eevee makes the point that delaying the Robz lynch might have allowed the ashersky wagon to build, but asher's hammer didn't let it.
Geolib's comment (and subsequent vote) that Asher's hammer may have prevented the Asher wagon from growing resonates with me - but I'm not willing to put him at L-1.
Next - onto Eeevee:
One more thing, I explicitly made sure not to claim VT (or any other role), so ashersky's "If we believe their claims" bit looks like a scumslip to me.. because all I claimed was to be town, and everyone is implying that at this point.. only scum is unsure what they are going to claim yet. Does this make sense?
It does make sense - but I'm not sure if I read this as an explicit scumslip - or just a new player not being familiar with the difference between explicit and implied claims. If you asked everyone to claim whether they were Scum / Town - everyone would say without hesitation. If you asked everyone to claim a role - we'd all be angry with you for rolefishing and being anti town.
Now - Asher!
I thought about quoting Geo's mega-post, but gave up. I also note that Eevee has since responded while I typed this response. So I suppose I can just reply to you both.
Clearly we disagree on what we think is and isn't scummy. But hey, this is my first game, and first time reading every single post in a running game, so maybe I just don't get it. But really, anyone could be scum and say/act any way they want, so I would think anyone's opinions could be valid.
There are plenty of opinions that are not valid. I could say that that I think you are scum because your most recent post (#478) started every paragraph with the letter I - and as such - you must be scum. Clearly this is an invalid opinion.
I will note a few things from Geo's post that are interesting to me. You say, bolded even, that <b>voting is not a scumtell</b>. I'm going to assume that since you bolded it, you feel pretty strongly that the statement is true. If so, why look at who voted when for whom? As you say, <b>voting is not a scumtell</b>, so you can't seriously take people's votes into account, right? Seems farfetched to me, and maybe you didn't really mean it. Surely, not all voting means something, but some votes do. That's why we look at who voted, right?
His statement (at least IMHO) means: just because someone voted for you doesn't make them scum. Clearly we all have to vote - and if casting a vote on a townie is a defined scumtell - then we have 5 scum in this town. Certainly - some votes are scummier than others. If Morgrim and I came and cast votes 3 and 4 on you real quick - that would probably be a scumtell - on me at least. Morgrim is morgrim.
Geo seemed to take offense at the pristine town read. Many of your posts are holier-than-thou saintly, trying to seem (to me) like you are so very town; the mayor of the town, even. Reading mega-town isn't a bad thing, right? Maybe you really are saintly. I don't know. I was definitely sold on it by the end of D1.
Geo, you also seem to be a big fan of Eevee now. You thank him directly in your post for being helpful. You have clearly joined him in the lynch me brigade. You said you would have unvoted right away if Eevee had been taken to L-1 (note: he was not), then unvoted anyway by the end of your post. You both point out that I said I was willing to put Eevee at L-1, but didn't, and said that was scummy. (Wait, voting is not a scumtell, but not voting is?) Just saying I would do it elicited a response, so I figure it was worth saying.
You two seem like a team to me, at least on this. Your posts have set each other up nicely.
Geolib's monster post has served to take some suspicion off of eevee - but it feels a little too early to be seeing pairs. There are currently 21 possible remaining scum pairs. Also - both scum voting for you this early is agressive. I'm not ruling it out - but right now this accusation looks more likely scum grasping at straws more than the correct scum pairing.
Really though, what can I say? You are both way, way off on me, and lynching me would be a mistake. Maybe it's my writing style, maybe it's me being new, maybe you just don't like me. One thing I do know, I definitely can't vote for anyone at this point, even if voting is not a scumtell, since I'm pretty sure you'd say it was scummy of me to vote for anyone.
This is the beauty of mafia. Once the accusations build - even townies get flustered and angry. Anything you do is a scumtell. Quietly refute? SCUMTELL: Townies should fight as hard as they can because lynching town is anti town. Fighting it? SCUMTELL: Propose some original analysis if you don't like it. New Analysis: SCUMTELL: Deflecting!
I will say right now - that I wouldn't consider you voting as scummy - provided that you back it with some reasons.
Right now - something isn't adding up in the eevee / geolib / ashersky situation. I can't decide if this is because I think the pressure is legit - and Ashersky is caught and looking for help (uhoh - am I coming to his rescue?) - or if this is scum picking on erratic town play. I'd say that geolib would be the scummier out of Eevee / Geolib - well - because of Mafia7-Day3. (sorry fuzzy)
I sat with Galz and the mod laughing my ass off as scum sat and watched eevee dig the whole to bury town in.
Now - where are Cuzz and Morgrim?
Morgrim - post something! I don't think you've said anything of interest all game. Why even sign up if you aren't going to play? (Yes - this is coming from someone who's current meta is that of a lurker - and still signs up for MOHR games)
PPE: @ geolib - I agree with your discussions on voting - see above.
PPPE: Holy crap that was long.
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That left me with a weird feeling, Frisk.
You just.. wrote a very long post without really stating your opinion of anything. You didn't explicitly state whether you found the case against me compelling or not. You did say out of me, Geo and ashersky, Geo looks the scummiest to you, so you kind of did.. but you also said you could vote for ashersky but don't want to put him at L-1? I somehow feel you left the door open for voting for anyone today if the opportunity presents itself (and that's where scum wants to be). You are participating, but not in a way that really binds you. You look a lot like scum trying to make others look scummy.
Oh and yeah, mafia VII was a disaster. But am I reading that right, you are giving me a pass because it is now know I'm a terrible townie?
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That left me with a weird feeling, Frisk.
You just.. wrote a very long post without really stating your opinion of anything. You didn't explicitly state whether you found the case against me compelling or not. You did say out of me, Geo and ashersky, Geo looks the scummiest to you, so you kind of did.. but you also said you could vote for ashersky but don't want to put him at L-1? I somehow feel you left the door open for voting for anyone today if the opportunity presents itself (and that's where scum wants to be). You are participating, but not in a way that really binds you. You look a lot like scum trying to make others look scummy.
Oh and yeah, mafia VII was a disaster. But am I reading that right, you are giving me a pass because it is now know I'm a terrible townie?
So - we have time - way too early to put Ashersky @ L-1 - especially with Morgrim in the game. Right now - I can see it either way.
As for giving you a "pass" - I am saying that I think its unlikely that both you and Geolib are both scum - and your play here reminds me alot of your play in M7. I don't want to say that you're a terrible townie, but you do have a documented case of play that looks similar. If we eventually lynch Ashersky and he flips town - then I would suspect that Geolib would be the more likely scum out of the two of you.
What I'd really like to see before I vote is Morgrim and Cuzz weighing in. Cuzz has at least written some things. I don't think Morgrim has said anything.
What do you want me to do? Vote my #1 suspect even if that involves putting him @ L-1 with morgrim in play? FoS: eevee.
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No, I wanted to hear just that, your take on the situation. Thank you, now I understood what you think of things. Obviously don't vote yet, but it your desire to do so later was not clear to me from your last post.
I'm still confused what you mean with your mafia VII reference though. In that game, I was sheeping timchen's bad case against Galzria and had my own equally terrible case against manda. Are you saying, this case too is bad, but because I tend to have those when I'm town, it is not scummy? (Two things are weird about that interpretation, a) you too are willing to vote for ashersky and b) only scum know what cases are bad at this point).
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Reading my last post as me asking you to put ashersky at L-1 is pretty ridiculous I think, I'm not approving of that FoS.
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Reading my last post as me asking you to put ashersky at L-1 is pretty ridiculous I think, I'm not approving of that FoS.
Its a good thing that fos's don't mean anything!
So - as I said in my mega post - I can kindof see Asher 2 ways.
1 - Scum for the very logical argument that geolib put forward. I can absolutely see him as trapped scum who is going a little crazy. I can't really vote for him at this time even if I thought this was the likely scenario.
2 - A newish townie who doesn't quite understand the game yet - who is being picked on for mistakes (such as getting defensive / feeling that people who vote him are scum). In this scenario - then I think its possible scum are pushing on his mistakes. You were the first voter here, geolib comes in and makes a decent argument and then votes (2nd - so actually creating a wagon vs. just a statement puntuated with a vote). I view this vote as a serious statement. This is a small game, and we're on day 2. It's not lylo, but we certainly aren't in a situation where we just want to lynch willy nilly.
So - of the two of you - Geolib looks scummier. It also jives with your M3 history - so bonus.
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So - as I said in my mega post - I can kindof see Asher 2 ways.
1 - Scum for the very logical argument that geolib put forward. I can absolutely see him as trapped scum who is going a little crazy. I can't really vote for him at this time even if I thought this was the likely scenario.
2 - A newish townie who doesn't quite understand the game yet - who is being picked on for mistakes (such as getting defensive / feeling that people who vote him are scum). In this scenario - then I think its possible scum are pushing on his mistakes. You were the first voter here, geolib comes in and makes a decent argument and then votes (2nd - so actually creating a wagon vs. just a statement puntuated with a vote). I view this vote as a serious statement. This is a small game, and we're on day 2. It's not lylo, but we certainly aren't in a situation where we just want to lynch willy nilly.
So - of the two of you - Geolib looks scummier. It also jives with your M3 history - so bonus.
I vote for option 2. I'm positive I've "misplayed" things here in my first game, and hopefully it's a good learning experience for future games.
Your reads are informative here, and I like your idea that Geolib seems scummier than Eevee, but to me its because there's a change in tone from D1 to D2. Then again, maybe that's just the way the game works.
This could be where I talk about my suspicions, but I don't know that they'd get any traction with the current mood. I'd like to hear opinions from Cuzz and Jorbles at this point, as they haven't said anything substantive recently.
On a previous post, you mentioned my confusion on claiming. I think I am definitely confused. When someone says "I am town" (as Eevee did once, for example), that's <i>not</i> claiming town? I get the distinction that when asked directly, everyone will say town, because who says mafia (unless there's some meta-game there?). Still, why was Eevee's "I'm town" not a town claim? I could see "I'm not scum" as a non-claim, but an explicit "I am town" seems to me like you are claiming to be town. No? So yes, I am confused on how that works, and any elucidation would be helpful.
Note: I will have RL stuff in the evening (eastern time) that may keep me from reading/posting, so keep that in mind if you move to lynch. I will say this: if you lynch me, think hard about the folks who really pushed this after you see me flip.
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I already started drinking, so won't be on for the next 20 hours or so (out to the bar and then straight to sleeps). Last post before that:
@ashersky
You giving your reads and voting and all that stuff now will be especially informational if we wind up lynching you! Because we'll know your alignment after, and can analyze what you said accordingly. Do share everything now! It is not at all clear you'll be the lynch target, so everything you say now is super useful to town either way. In fact, speaking as much as possible is the towny thing to do, because scum has to be scared of outing their buddies.
I'm in a hurry so I'll let someone who is sober & better with their words explain that. Keep the discussion going while I'm away, guys!
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On claiming:
We all claim town alignment. That's implied. To claim otherwise would be ridiculous.
However - what we haven't claimed are roles. Vanilla Town roles suck - but they shield the town power roles.
Claiming VT is bad - because if believed it makes scum more likely to hit town power roles when night killing.
Claiming town power roles is bad - because you're going to get killed.
So - when eevee is saying he's town - that's just normal - "Hey everyone - I'm not scum". When Morgrim says - well shit i hate this game because I'm VT again.... he's claiming that he's VT - and hurting town either way (scum lying, or making it easier to find PR for scum)
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Hey guys, sorry if I appear to have been lurking the last day or so. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about recent developments but here's my 2 cents:
I'm getting scummy vibes from Eevee and ashersky, and townie vibes from Geolib and Frisk. It makes no sense that they both would be scum, though, for what should be obvious reasons. I'd probably lean toward Eevee since ashersky's behavior seems a bit like how I imagine I might act if there was a wagon on me, being a first-game townie. Jorbles has been quiet since yesterday so I'll have to take a minute to go back and reread his most recent posts.
That being said, We Need to Talk About Morgrim.
I really hope this doesn't come off as scummy for trying to derail the current inertia of the discussion. I'm not coming to anyone's rescue here by changing the subject. As many have said, we have lots of time to discuss all issues, and this is one I want to discuss before the day is out.
But other than some casual remarks about how Morgrim should maybe say something constructive, no one is putting any real pressure on him, and I think there's a decent chance that he and one other person are all too happy to be talking about other things (that is, for the rest of us to be talking. He's not talking about anything).
Morgrim is essentially lurking hard on D2, and I find this seriously suspect. I'm really wishing we had lynched him on D1, since even if he flipped town, I'd rather have Robz here by a long shot (though based on my miserable D1 scumhunting, I'd probably still be tunneling Robz on D2 if he were here). Especially since Morgrim hasn't said enough to give off any hard scum tells or anything, so he would probably have been a better D1 lynch than a D2 lynch.
If Morgrim is town, he can start playing like it. But until then, Vote: Morgrim.
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@ashersky
You giving your reads and voting and all that stuff now will be especially informational if we wind up lynching you! Because we'll know your alignment after, and can analyze what you said accordingly. Do share everything now! It is not at all clear you'll be the lynch target, so everything you say now is super useful to town either way. In fact, speaking as much as possible is the towny thing to do, because scum has to be scared of outing their buddies.
Okay, so here are some thoughts, then.
Frisk. I get a strong town read here. He's been consistent in his posting, generally thought out posts, strkes me as level-headed. No reason to suspect him at this point.
Morgrim. You know, I think his complete lack of play really hurts town, even though it doesn't seem like his silence will help mafia either. Cuzz's recent call out should help--let's see how he responds. In fact, <b>Vote: Morgrim</b>. Really, you need to step up. I lean toward just accepting that he really is a bored VT, and he's set himself up to not be a lynch target for mafia to push and helps mafia NK a power role by reducing the pool of options. So I think he's town hurting town by basically shrinking the game by one player. I hope it is not scummy to add a vote to someone I think might be town, but he's really hurting the good guys more than helping.
Cuzz. Neutral here, leaning town. Not a lot to say otherwise. I wish he'd post more, since they're useful.
Jorbles. We need to hear more from him. No real read.
Eevee and Geolib. You already know my take there.
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Sorry guys, I got slogged down at work. I have not read the majority of posts since umm whenever I last posted. I promise I will catch up and give a quality post when either I get home from work today or when things slow down here again.
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This may sound stupid, but I would like to request replacement. I just cant keep up with this game, plus RMM2, plus Major arcana. I wont even mention BM5. Ugh.
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or you could lynch me...VOTE: MORGRIM7
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or you could lynch me...VOTE: MORGRIM7
Damnit morgrim... Did you just put yourself @ L-1?
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I almost want to throw this game And hammer him to teach everyone a lesson about playing with morgrim.
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Unvote.
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Seemed like the wrong way to lynch, having him vote on himself. I do think he confirmed himself VT, since he'd probably care more if he were more important...
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Okay caught up, there's some other things I'm going to talk about in a second post, but first off, Morgrim. I am glad he is requesting a replacement if he doesn't have enough time to play. Even if this is some meta thing to set up his replacement for a scum win I'd rather have someone in who has time to play. Personally though, I think this is responsible town play. EXCEPT FOR VOTING FOR YOURSELF AT THE END.
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Morgrim will be replaced soon, I already have two volunteers, but need to double check with the first one
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Who wants to quicklynch the newcomer?
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Ok, so I went back over a lot of old posts specifically at Eevee and Geolib and I did find something that made me suspicious of Geolib`s voting patterns, that I am going to [Vote: Geolib]. I will admit this is not the strongest case, but if Geolib is playing as well as I think he is I want to put it out there now in case there`s some merit here.
Geolib has voted for O, Morgrim, Eevee, and then ashersky, but he only votes for them after other players express suspicion or if the vote is so safe that it`s essentially meaningless.
-He voted for O after I voted for him for lurking. It was a very early vote, and on it's own I don't think much of it. I did the same thing, but it was basically a meaningless vote to make it look like something was happening.
-He voted for Morgrim while the Robz wagon was very close to ending. No one can really fault you for a Morgrim vote right? It's even justifiable as a policy lynch. Again not too suspicious. But at this point he has made two votes that give us almost no knowledge about him. Voting for someone for lurking and then voting for Morgrim gives us very little to say against him. It's very very cautious.
-Robz is lynched and O is NKed. d2 starts. I would like to point out that Geolib`s biggest trait in this game seems to be his caution. Good town play is cautious, but good scum play is also cautious.
-Next he votes for Eevee, but only after I point out that if Eevee or Geolib think that there is a scum off the wagon they should be voting for the other one. Then when the only person who backs him up with a vote is Morgrim he realizes he may have made a mistake and backs off, and starts buddying with Eevee.
-Next Eevee votes for ashersky and Geolib almost immediately backs him. Now I`m not sure whether this is because ashersky is town playing badly and Geolib might think it`s an easy lynch, or because he thinks that ashersky`s lynch might be inevitable and he should get on the wagon early.
I think Geolib is playing really really well, but I think in d1 he played super cautiously to prevent anyone from suspecting him and I think d2 he capitalized on his early antagonism of Eevee to try and win him over. Anyhow, that`s my theory, I expect to take some flak for it, but if this turns around into a lynch on me please keep this in mind when I flip. You may now poke holes in it.
On the other players:
ashersky: I think ashersky`s play has been scummy as hell, but I`d rather draw light on what I think is a really strong scum player flying under the radar. I suppose it`s possible that ashersky has just been playing badly. I will admit that Geolib`s vote for him actually made me think he was slightly less scummy, but it could be bussing.
Cuzz: I have little read on Cuzz.
Eevee: I actually did get around to reading some of MVII and reading it actually makes me think that Eevee is probably town. His play here has been consistent with that. Having read nothing in which he played scum I am taking it with a grain of salt.
Frisk: I think Eevee actually made a good point about your long post not taking a side sounding hedgey, and slightly scummy. Aside from that I think your d2 play has been hedgey, and have basically a neutral read on you.
Morgrim: I think him asking for a replacement is a fairly protown thing to do. If someone subs in and wins because it turns out Morgrim was scum all along then that is such crazy scum manoeuvrings that I have to tip my hat to you.
Anyhow I`ve got some people coming over to play Dominion (I`ve got Dark Ages!) So I`m going to disappear for the night and see what has happened when the dust settles from this post.
[Edit: Also haha, quick lynching the new comer would be hilarious. Our reason, they are not playing consistently to how Morgrim played.]
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Ok. Back again. I realize I'm starting all of my posts with that... Oh well.
I think the thing most important for me to respond to is Jorbles case, but I need to do some readying back for that. For now I'll just say that I have generally tried to play cautiously and only vote for people when I thought there was some sort of case on them (except for the O RVS). I'll read back and post again in a bit.
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Ok. Response to Jorbles. I apologize because this is going to be huge...
Let's do this in order
Morgrim:
I actually brought the case against Morgrim, I believe before anyone else. Other people said "Damnit Morgrim," etc., but I said some reasons why I thought he might be scummy and then FOSed him (yes, not the same as a vote, but I didn't think it was serious enough for a vote yet).
fgmmm...grrr...hmph...confirm...grmhh... >:(
Robz, what would have been your least favorite role to receive in this game?
Easy. Vanilla Townie. You?
grmph....grrr... *frown*
if you make a wagon on me I will selfhammer and turn up VT. BTW, I am a VT. >:(>:(>:(>:(>:(>:(
Just mad 'cause this is the millionth game where I have been a VT. >:( >:(
Does being this obviously mad about being VT seem sort of scummy to anyone else? I realize "Morgrim is Morgrim. blah blah," but I don't know, this strikes me as odd. Robz says he hasn't ever been mafia when he flips, but he's just as likely to be as anyone else... Seems like we're overdue for a scum Morgrim (I realized that this is not how probability works).
FOS: Morgrim
It was this post that started a mini-wagon on Morgrim (although Morgrim was actually the first vote on himself... smh)
I again called out Morgrim, but said I would wait to vote until O got there.
I am totally onboard the policy lynch for super anti-town behavior, but I think we should at least wait for O to get here. I would be a little annoyed if D1 lynch was decided before I'd even realized the game had started...
But yeah, roleclaiming, self-voting, threatening to self-hammer, posting only complaints about how one is VT...
I say unless we get a strong scum read on someone else, then we lynch Morgrim. He's just as likely to be scum as anyone else in the D1 crapshoot, and is playing anti-town regardless.
I'm holding off casting my vote until O gets here though.
I again say we should hold a Morgrim lynch in reserve if we don't find a better alternative.
The case for a Morgrim Policy-Lynch as a last resort:
I think that we should keep scumhunting, but that if we don't get anywhere we should policy-lynch Morgrim. The anti-town behavior right off the bat was pretty appalling. I still don't buy O's reasoning that
Morgrim is going to scumslip if he's scum.
You guys have all said that Morgrim hasn't played scum before, so how could you know what scumgrim (morscum?) would do? Best case scenario he's scum relying on his old weird-playstyle meta to keep him alive (I'd say odds are about the same as they are for a random person. Maybe a little better). Worst case scenario, he's a PR for some reason lying and claiming VT (odds of this seem low, but you never can tell with Morgrim, I guess). Most likely he's a VT playing very anti-town. As we are most likely going to lynch a VT anyway (both probability and Eevee's grim analysis of f.ds mafia's success in the past suggest this), might as well lynch one who's playing anti-town.
All this being said, I agree with Eevee that we should hold off on a policy-lynch until we're sure we can't find more probable scum. I just think we should hold a Morgrim lynch as a reserve.
Anyway. Back to scumhunting!
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I say that I am more and more against the Robz lynch. Then decide to give an alternative, the one I've mentioned several times before. I back it up by voting for Morgrim.
Thank you Eevee for posting that summary. It's nice having the important points quoted, so I don't have to reread the whole thing. Of course this does give you the opportunity to misdirect us... :P
I'm liking Robz lynch less and less. I feel like we kind of let O swoop in and steer us towards the lynch he wants. We should be careful not to confuse his certainty with accuracy. I understand what people are saying about a Robz lynch being sort of inevitable, but I think we've still got time to consider other candidates.
Despite what I said about O steering the lynch, I don't think he's scum (probably). It just seems like that's how O plays: He decides whom he wants to lynch and then argues his points belligerently without backing down. Now I personally find this annoying, but I don't think it makes him scum necessarily. Anyone have experience with scum O and/or town O that they'd like to share?
As for when we lynch, I'm a proponent of waiting a little longer, but not doing it at the last minute. I personally will be busy on Monday, then V/LA all of Tuesday. I'd prefer we lynched before Monday, so that I can pack, but that is a RL, not a game concern.
My favorite lynch is still Morgrim, and as he isn't about to be lynched, I'll back that up with vote: Morgrim
I believe someone (don't remember who) said earlier that a Morgrim lynch gives us less information than another lynch. Could you explain why please?
24 hours later, Ashersky hammers
Wasn't this right after the debate about whether prolonging debate when a lynch is certain helps or hinders scum? Cuzz evidently believes it helps scum. I don't, but I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"
I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.
I guess I can do it. Vote: Robz888. Let's see how this goes.
Eevee:
I call out Eevee as potentially scummy in my first post of D2 before you had posted anything, let alone anything saying that I should go after Eevee.
My first thought is that scum would probably not want to tunnel town, but would want to mildly protest while indicating with other things that the lynch was a good idea. You know whom that sounds like?? Eevee:
I do think O makes sense btw.
My favorite lynch for today would actually be robz, even if it would suck to lose such a strong townie.
For:
Claimed VT, nonexistent risk of lynching a town power role
Has played somewhat scummy (YMMV)
My gut isnt screaming "HE IS TOWN" when I read his defense
If we let him live, we will likely be facing the same dilemma tomorrow as some of us (hint: O) will try to push his lynch again. He could be investigated though, if we have a cop. Also scum wont kill him at night, and either way this is an informational wagon.
Against:
Could be a real asset to town (if town)
The scumminess is actually nothing concrete (but then againt, from a robz-level player it never is day 1)
I actually quite agree with O's case on Robz
Oh and as Robz pointed out, if he is indeed town, waiting gives the scum on the wagon an excellent chance to hedge. I said it above, it's super likely robz will die tonight. They dont need to argue for his lynch anymore, it's pretty inevitable. I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly felt a little less sure about him.. So people who first argued strongly for robz lynch and then started taking some of it back when the wagon picked off are slightly scummy I guess? Anyone want to admit to this behavior and explain it?
Actually, one of the reasons I think Robz is maybe a good lynch is that I think O is a smart guy
Still, it seems better than going for a new target completely, possibly outing our power roles in the process. Although you do have me almost convinced of your innocence.. :-\ Surely you must understand why I'd rather lynch for logical reasons than listen to my gut at this point?
Btw Robz, as I think it's quite possible you are town, I think you should absolutely at least share all your reads before you die. It's very unfortunate we are in this situation, but I just see no reasonable way out.
Being cautious is easy for scum (they can say "I would be willing to vote for my scumbuddy.. maybe" and then when the time comes, just not do it because they remembered to hedge in their original statement. And I do realize I've been very hedgy with the Robz case, although I have explained my reasons for it. And I would for sure rather lynch robz than nolynch, not even close.
I have said Robz is not super likely to be scum numerous times, the main benefit of lynching him would be the flip (obviously the possibility of him being scum is awesome, that'd be two birds with one stone). But sort of sucks to lynch someone your gut says is town, especially if he is a nice guy like Robz (shouldn't matter) and a very strong player.
Ok, so looking back perhaps this case doesn't make as much sense as I thought. But my recollection was that Eevee was saying that he thought Robz was probably town, but at the same time including little tidbits telling other people that basically there was no one else we could lynch D1, and that O was really smart and his case was excellent. Not necessarily saying we should lynch him, but just popped into my head, and I thought I should share.
I've got to get back to packing. I'll check in again tomorrow.
Try not to lynch anyone without me!
I come back to post in the evening, and only one person has posted. I read Jorbles post and think it makes sense. It increases my suspicions of Eevee (that I had already mentioned) enough that I think it warrants a vote, especially since the game is moving slowly and we need something to talk about. I vote Eevee.
So I come back, and... One person has posted?
I think Jorbles analysis makes sense. I don't really have anything new to add because no one has posted (Where is everybody?) I agree that 3a is the most likely, and increases my suspicions of Eevee. There haven't been any votes today, and I think we should get things moving (not advocating a fast lynch, just some more discussion). Therefore, Vote: Eevee
I'll try to post here tomorrow, but might not get to it.
Ashersky:
I come back and read the aftermath of my vote. In it, ashersky comes out looking pretty scummy, and Eevee less so. I still suspect him, but I've decided that ashersky looks scummier. I'm not going to quote or paraphrase that whole post because it's massive. Link here:
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I didn't "back off" Eevee, and I'm not "buddying up" with him either. I think in general, Eevee contributes really helpful posts, but as he pointed out, posting style is not the same as alignment. I am still suspicious of Eevee for the reasons I have mentioned (though I think he came out looking better after the Eevee/Asherksy thing). Ashersky, OTOH, did not. I decided he was scummier, and voted. I think that's everything from your post Jorbles. I'm glad you think I'm playing well, but I assure you that I am doing so as a townie.
I will now address the rest of the stuff that's happened since my last post, but I figure I'll post this now. Sorry it's so long :-\
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So - as I said in my mega post - I can kindof see Asher 2 ways.
1 - Scum for the very logical argument that geolib put forward. I can absolutely see him as trapped scum who is going a little crazy. I can't really vote for him at this time even if I thought this was the likely scenario.
2 - A newish townie who doesn't quite understand the game yet - who is being picked on for mistakes (such as getting defensive / feeling that people who vote him are scum). In this scenario - then I think its possible scum are pushing on his mistakes. You were the first voter here, geolib comes in and makes a decent argument and then votes (2nd - so actually creating a wagon vs. just a statement puntuated with a vote). I view this vote as a serious statement. This is a small game, and we're on day 2. It's not lylo, but we certainly aren't in a situation where we just want to lynch willy nilly.
So - of the two of you - Geolib looks scummier. It also jives with your M3 history - so bonus.
Asher's play may just be newbie. He seemed genuinely confused on the whole claiming thing (he had a similar confusion when Robz claimed VT at L-1 after saying that Morgrim's VT claim was anti-town). However, I still think he's pretty scummy, and there are other reasons, like hammering Robz when there was potential for a wagon to build on him, that make me comfortable with my vote where it is for now. I'd love more discussion, about him and others, and maybe I'll decide someone else is more likely to be scum.
Do you think my vote was willy nilly? I realize L-2 gives scum the option to quickhammer, but that would actually benefit town if they did (because they would be so obvious), so I don't think it's a real danger. I didn't consider myself to be voting willy nilly, for example I wouldn't have voted for ashersky if it had put him at L-1.
I like Cuzz bringing up Morgrim. Obviously we should wait to move any further in that direction until the replacement arrives. Also, lol @ quicklynching the newcomer. It gives me a devious idea though. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Should we perhaps immediately push the replacement to L-1, forcing him to claim? He might not have time to read back and see that Morgrim already has. If he claims VT, then that's just more confirmation, but if he claims a PR, we'll know (pretty much) that he's scum. Does this seem too unfriendly/metagamy? OTOH it feels mean, but OTOH I think it might benefit town... Hmmm... Also those phrases both have the same acronym. That's weird...
Anyway.
I found Ashersky's post about and immediate vote for Morgrim kind of scummy. In general ashersky has been really quick to hop on wagons, which could be scummy or could just be newbie (as he claims). He backed up his Morgrim vote with valid reasons, but it looked sort of like scum seizing on the opportunity to move the conversation away from him. Unvoting when Morgrim put himself at L-1 was good though. Thoughts?
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Do you think my vote was willy nilly? I realize L-2 gives scum the option to quickhammer, but that would actually benefit town if they did (because they would be so obvious), so I don't think it's a real danger. I didn't consider myself to be voting willy nilly, for example I wouldn't have voted for ashersky if it had put him at L-1.
Perphaps willy nilly isn't the right term for it - but with only 4 required to lynch, and Morgrim in the game - every vote counts. I don't view the first vote as being especially serious.... it can be used for emphasis - or to pressure someone into posting. The second vote (with 4 required to lynch) to me says: "Yep - I'm ok with this person dieing today" - because it's not unreasonable that the person could be lynched before you have a chance to come back and unvote. I can totally see scum laying the 3rd vote (for extra pressure / force a claim) and then have morgrim come in and end it.
So - your first vote against eevee I'm fine with. Your 2nd vote against ashersky - its well reasonsed.
I like Cuzz bringing up Morgrim. Obviously we should wait to move any further in that direction until the replacement arrives. Also, lol @ quicklynching the newcomer. It gives me a devious idea though. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Should we perhaps immediately push the replacement to L-1, forcing him to claim? He might not have time to read back and see that Morgrim already has. If he claims VT, then that's just more confirmation, but if he claims a PR, we'll know (pretty much) that he's scum. Does this seem too unfriendly/metagamy? OTOH it feels mean, but OTOH I think it might benefit town... Hmmm... Also those phrases both have the same acronym. That's weird...
I'm sure you see the problem here. Replacement dude is just going to claim VT - because you just gave him an an excuse to.
I found Ashersky's post about and immediate vote for Morgrim kind of scummy. In general ashersky has been really quick to hop on wagons, which could be scummy or could just be newbie (as he claims). He backed up his Morgrim vote with valid reasons, but it looked sort of like scum seizing on the opportunity to move the conversation away from him. Unvoting when Morgrim put himself at L-1 was good though. Thoughts?
Agreed.
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Morgrim7 didn't take the death of Donald very well. Since then he could neither eat nor drink. He just stumbled about the room, muttering, drawing hieroglyphics on the walls and sucking his thumb. Eventually he died. Moments later everyone heard a scrapping sound coming from the ceiling. The air conditioning vent above them disappeared and in its place appeared Voltaire. He fell from the event but instead of falling to the ground he slowly floated down. Was he a god? Was he an angel? Was he here to avenge the death of Donald X? There really was no way to know, especially since there was no way to know the alignment of the person he was replacing, Morgrim. No, Voltaire simply had a love for Mission Impossible movies and was trying to recreate the dramatic where Tom Cruise is suspended from the ceiling just inches away from triggering the alarm system. Everything went fine until Voltaire was 5 feet from the floor. Suddenly he dropped and landed and on his head.
Everyone, give a warm welcome to our newest MX player, Voltaire!!!!
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*rubbing head*
Ow.
Hey guys, good to be here. I've actually been following this whole game, so I knew about Morgrim's VT claim. Nice try, though, thinking about quicklynching a VT! /obvscumtell
No seriously, off to re-read the thread now that I have a vested interest in this game. Don't kill anybody while I'm gone.
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Ok. Response to Jorbles. I apologize because this is going to be huge...
Let's do this in order
Morgrim:
I actually brought the case against Morgrim, I believe before anyone else. Other people said "Damnit Morgrim," etc., but I said some reasons why I thought he might be scummy and then FOSed him (yes, not the same as a vote, but I didn't think it was serious enough for a vote yet).
It was this post that started a mini-wagon on Morgrim (although Morgrim was actually the first vote on himself... smh)
I don't really think an FOS is particularly indicative. It's the vote later in d1 that I found suspicious as it seemed like you were setting up for a d2 morning after Robz flipped town.
The case for a Morgrim Policy-Lynch as a last resort:
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I say that I am more and more against the Robz lynch. Then decide to give an alternative, the one I've mentioned several times before. I back it up by voting for Morgrim.
This could be setting yourself up since you knew Robz was going to flip town so you set yourself up on the safest town to suspect, but also the one that would give us the least info as it would basically be a policy lynch.
24 hours later, Ashersky hammers
Eevee:
I call out Eevee as potentially scummy in my first post of D2 before you had posted anything, let alone anything saying that I should go after Eevee.
My first thought is that scum would probably not want to tunnel town, but would want to mildly protest while indicating with other things that the lynch was a good idea. You know whom that sounds like?? Eevee:
...
I come back to post in the evening, and only one person has posted. I read Jorbles post and think it makes sense. It increases my suspicions of Eevee (that I had already mentioned) enough that I think it warrants a vote, especially since the game is moving slowly and we need something to talk about. I vote Eevee.
...
Okay you've got a point there. I think I'd missed that initial call for suspicion because I was searching for votes in my analysis.
Ashersky:
I come back and read the aftermath of my vote. In it, ashersky comes out looking pretty scummy, and Eevee less so. I still suspect him, but I've decided that ashersky looks scummier. I'm not going to quote or paraphrase that whole post because it's massive. Link here:
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I didn't "back off" Eevee, and I'm not "buddying up" with him either. I think in general, Eevee contributes really helpful posts, but as he pointed out, posting style is not the same as alignment. I am still suspicious of Eevee for the reasons I have mentioned (though I think he came out looking better after the Eevee/Asherksy thing). Ashersky, OTOH, did not. I decided he was scummier, and voted. I think that's everything from your post Jorbles. I'm glad you think I'm playing well, but I assure you that I am doing so as a townie.
This is just a question of how you read it. You say complimenting eevee isn't buddying up, I say it is. That said I do agree that ashersky is much scummier than Eevee.
I will concur, that you have given plausible excuses for all my suspicions. However, a strong scum player would have all those excuses! That said I want others to weigh in on my points as right now it's just me and you commenting.
Also, welcome Voltaire.
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Vote Count 2-4
ashersky (2): Eevee, Geolib
Voltaire (2): Cuzz, Voltaire
GeoLib (1): Jorbles
Not voting (2): Captain_Frisk, ashersky
(The votes on are striked out Voltaire/Morgrim because they are not technically being counted atm due to the replacement. If you would like to continue to vote for Voltaire please revote, if you would like to take it off then unvote or vote for someone else)
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, September 3, at noon EDT
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Vote Count 2-4
Voltaire (2): Cuzz, Voltaire
VOLTAIRE STOP IT! SELF VOTING IS SUPER ANTITOWN MORGRIM STYLE PLAY!
Sidenote for yuma: Did Voltaire have access to the QT and if so can I request that the QT link be changed so he no longer does?
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Vote Count 2-4
Eevee (1): Morgrim7
ashersky (2): Eevee, Geolib
Voltaire (2): Cuzz, Voltaire
GeoLib (1): Jorbles
Not voting (2): Captain_Frisk, ashersky
(The votes on are striked out Voltaire/Morgrim because they are not technically being counted atm due to the replacement. If you would like to continue to vote for Voltaire please revote, if you would like to take it off then unvote or vote for someone else)
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, September 3, at noon EDT
What about the Morgrim vote on Eevee? Is that vacated?
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or you could lynch me...VOTE: MORGRIM7
This is the last thing Morgrim did, so I think it's correct for it to be on himself.
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Vote Count 2-4
Voltaire (2): Cuzz, Voltaire
VOLTAIRE STOP IT! SELF VOTING IS SUPER ANTITOWN MORGRIM STYLE PLAY!
Sidenote for yuma: Did Voltaire have access to the QT and if so can I request that the QT link be changed so he no longer does?
I wouldn't worry about it. If he's the kindof person who would peak at the QT - he'd be the type of person who would day talk with his scum buddies, and you can't really prevent that either.
FoS: Jorbles for being so paranoid.
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Also - mod - you have Volt/Morgrim voting in 2 places... eevee and himself.
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or you could lynch me...VOTE: MORGRIM7
This is the last thing Morgrim did, so I think it's correct for it to be on himself.
Oh I see what you mean. I don't think there should be a vote from him on Eevee.
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Vote Count 2-4
Voltaire (2): Cuzz, Voltaire
VOLTAIRE STOP IT! SELF VOTING IS SUPER ANTITOWN MORGRIM STYLE PLAY!
Sidenote for yuma: Did Voltaire have access to the QT and if so can I request that the QT link be changed so he no longer does?
He did not
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Vote Count 2-4
Eevee (1): Morgrim7
ashersky (2): Eevee, Geolib
Voltaire (2): Cuzz, Voltaire
GeoLib (1): Jorbles
Not voting (2): Captain_Frisk, ashersky
(The votes on are striked out Voltaire/Morgrim because they are not technically being counted atm due to the replacement. If you would like to continue to vote for Voltaire please revote, if you would like to take it off then unvote or vote for someone else)
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, September 3, at noon EDT
What about the Morgrim vote on Eevee? Is that vacated?
fixed
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Well, since I guess I am technically voting for myself at the moment: Unvote.
Man, I just re-read the thread and...man.
First, you all should know: mostly newb (two games of experience elsewhere, where all players were newbs). In those games, mafia won both times because town ripped themselves to shreds by being too certain about everything and mafia just stood back and laughed.
Second, I just finished re-reading the thread, and my head hurts. I'm suspicious of everyone. You all stink. This means I'm insulting four townies - apologies.
More later, I hope? Also, CST (GMT-6) for those who care about those sorts of things, but on the weekend I'll be posting at erratic times.
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Unvote I don't know this new gentleman enough to be suspicious yet.
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So as I see it right now, not nearly enough information to know anything for certain. Making some notes, drawing some graphs (no seriously), and it's looking like more information is needed. That's really only going to happen if someone goes to L-1.
FoS: A for seeming quite scummy and I'm trying to figure out if the wagon might be too big on him. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if he claimed. I see two issues (like CF said): could be scummy, could be new townie. I'm leaning A right now but worried that (most) everyone else seems to be too.
Always worried about those who appear town. I've been hoodwinked before.
(I'm putting Day One's vote below to make it easier for me than searching back through the thread each time)
Robz888 (5): O, Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7, ashersky
Morgrim7 (2): Robz888, GeoLib
ashersky (1): Eevee
Not voting (1): Jorbles
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Do you think my vote was willy nilly? I realize L-2 gives scum the option to quickhammer, but that would actually benefit town if they did (because they would be so obvious), so I don't think it's a real danger. I didn't consider myself to be voting willy nilly, for example I wouldn't have voted for ashersky if it had put him at L-1.
Perphaps willy nilly isn't the right term for it - but with only 4 required to lynch, and Morgrim in the game - every vote counts. I don't view the first vote as being especially serious.... it can be used for emphasis - or to pressure someone into posting. The second vote (with 4 required to lynch) to me says: "Yep - I'm ok with this person dieing today" - because it's not unreasonable that the person could be lynched before you have a chance to come back and unvote. I can totally see scum laying the 3rd vote (for extra pressure / force a claim) and then have morgrim come in and end it.
So - your first vote against eevee I'm fine with. Your 2nd vote against ashersky - its well reasonsed.
Ok. I see your point. I didn't really consider my second vote to carry that much wait. I am comfortable with saying that I think ashersky seems scummy, and that I'm ok with him dieing today. I'm not comfortable with him dieing right now, however. Your point about scum putting on the 3rd for pressure and Morgrim hammering is good though. I hadn't thought about that because I figured that any quickhammer would just out scum, but with Morgrim in the game, you're right that we have to be careful. Luckily, he isn't anymore!
Welcome Voltaire. You've already posted more content than Morgrim did all game. Also, what are you graphing? I would be interested in you sharing whatever you come up with. I'm not sure how I feel about pushing ashersky to claim though.
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Welcome Voltaire. You've already posted more content than Morgrim did all game. Also, what are you graphing? I would be interested in you sharing whatever you come up with. I'm not sure how I feel about pushing ashersky to claim though.
It's a circle, with each surviving member on the perimeter, and arrows drawn indicating who thinks who is scum(ish)/town(ish). It's not very useful yet.
I also am unsure if forcing an ashersky claim is a good idea. Everyone seems to think he's scummy (though to different extents) - you, me, Jorbles, Eevee, Cuzz - leaving only Captain_Frisk (who thinks he's scummy but seems to come down on the side of "but it's only because he's a new-town player"). Correct me if any of this is wrong. It's only based off of people's most recent comments about him and those can change of course.
You know what? I think I just talked myself into treating ashersky as town until shown otherwise.
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Heads up - I am likely to park a vote on Friday before I leave for V/LA. I'll have internet where I"m going until Monday - but don't know how active I'll be.
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Random thought: why do so many Dominion players love a game with so much AP? :P
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Random thought: why do so many Dominion players love a game with so much AP? :P
We're all Pawns to Mafia.
(ba-dum tish)
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It's a circle, with each surviving member on the perimeter, and arrows drawn indicating who thinks who is scum(ish)/town(ish). It's not very useful yet.
That actually sounds useful, if it wasn't a bunch of arrows at one person.
I also am unsure if forcing an ashersky claim is a good idea. Everyone seems to think he's scummy (though to different extents) - you, me, Jorbles, Eevee, Cuzz - leaving only Captain_Frisk (who thinks he's scummy but seems to come down on the side of "but it's only because he's a new-town player"). Correct me if any of this is wrong. It's only based off of people's most recent comments about him and those can change of course.
I think that's right. I know I'm not scum, if you want to add that to your list. As far as me (or any town) claiming goes, I figure it ends up in an NK instead, but it does allow for the group to refocus on someone else for the lynch (unless the claimer isn't believed). A D2 town lynch plus N2 town kill puts the game at 3 vs. 2, which sounds bad to me as town.
Man, I just re-read the thread and...man.
First, you all should know: mostly newb (two games of experience elsewhere, where all players were newbs). In those games, mafia won both times because town ripped themselves to shreds by being too certain about everything and mafia just stood back and laughed.
I would say this sounds familiar. I can see how that would happen, and I think it probably played a part in this game on D1, with Robz lynched instead of a more useful Morgrim. Heck, I hammered that one feeling pretty safe about it. As had been previously mentioned, though, had I not hammered, someone else would have.
Glad to have you aboard, and I'll second Geolib's comment that you've already added more to this than Morgrim did until he asked for replacement.
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Having (for now) gone through the ashersky argument and settling on "town," I'm now FoS: Captain_Frisk for being third on the Robz888 wagon and flying mostly under-the-radar when I re-read the thread. Just sayin'.
Glad to have you aboard, and I'll second Geolib's comment that you've already added more to this than Morgrim did until he asked for replacement.
Thanks-a-much! I toyed a bit with replicating his playstyle and then I went "No, I would like to someday be in more games here."
FYI - leaving work shortly, which ironically means I won't be able to check the thread until either late tonight (5ish hours) or tomorrow morning (15ish hours).
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Welcome, Voltaire! I was sort of v/la, but nothing that happened here made me change my mind about ashersky. Dont have any opinion on Volt yet.
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Having (for now) gone through the ashersky argument and settling on "town," I'm now FoS: Captain_Frisk for being third on the Robz888 wagon and flying mostly under-the-radar when I re-read the thread. Just sayin'.
Glad to have you aboard, and I'll second Geolib's comment that you've already added more to this than Morgrim did until he asked for replacement.
Thanks-a-much! I toyed a bit with replicating his playstyle and then I went "No, I would like to someday be in more games here."
FYI - leaving work shortly, which ironically means I won't be able to check the thread until either late tonight (5ish hours) or tomorrow morning (15ish hours).
If you're going to zing me for being 3rd - Cuzz was actually third first. My vote had been on RobZ at the start due to RVS. Cuzz jumped on to make it 3 - at which point I unvoted on account of not being comfortable. I did get back on, making me the new 3rd, but if you're going to use that tell (3rd and 4th votes are scummy) - then just want to make sure you're reading it correctly.
Thanks for not replicating his playstyle - I would have had to lynch you - even if it cost me the game.
I'll do a re-read at some point today and get my vote in before I leave tonight.
Monday deadline is looming folks, and weekends aren't usually active. Right now my gut tells me geolib.
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The more I think about it, the scummier GeoLib's voting history is today. I still strongly prefer ashersky, and punishing Geo for being active feels dirty.. but I thought I'd just put this out there.
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Unvote I don't know this new gentleman enough to be suspicious yet.
Shouldn't your read of Morgrim still apply? It's not like Voltaire drew a new role when he took over.
The more I think about it, the scummier GeoLib's voting history is today. I still strongly prefer ashersky, and punishing Geo for being active feels dirty.. but I thought I'd just put this out there.
If you think GeoLib is scum, but don't want it to come off as a meta punishment on active players than I would point out that scum who want to appear town do have an incentive to be active (so as to appear that they are contributing valuable information). Sometimes good scum play and good town play are the same thing.
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.. except scum feeds town misinformation (at least to an extent), right. Geo has not been caught of doing that yet though, my gut says he is genuinely helpful.
It's just that he first tried to start a wagon on me (town), then instantly changed his mind when I appeared townier and changed to ashersky. Sure, I believe my case on ashersky has a lot of merit and is a good one, but if I'm wrong about ashersky, GeoLib looks scummy I think for sheeping my bad read. I don't know, we need more activity to get to the bottom of this thing!
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Unvote I don't know this new gentleman enough to be suspicious yet.
Shouldn't your read of Morgrim still apply? It's not like Voltaire drew a new role when he took over.
Nope! That's the problem with Morgrim. There is no reading.
M5 is a good example of where a replacement made a big difference. eHunt saved the freaking game from (sorry) poor play by Zxc - who brought a bunch of suspicion down on him for some crazy play.
There's plenty of meta to support the "morgrim is crazy" intead of "morgrim is crafty". The only way his VT claim was calculated was if it was orchestrated by his partner - possibly including the replacement. In this game - I would only suspect myself, GeoLib (does not read like a noob), and maaaaybe eevee of even thinking of trying something that outrageous. Geolib voted for morgrim and could have gotten him killed, I'm not scum, so unless eevee has gone crazy bonkers - I tend to think that our newcomer is town - and will most likely be treating him as an Innocent Child until lylo.
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Treating him as an innocent child is just crazy, unless you said that to make Volt feel too careless.
But yeah, very unlikely to be a real consideration today unless some really weird stuff starts happening. Volt, you have a pretty big scumhunting role now that we all seem to agree you are likely town!
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Okay, so I went back and re-read the entire thing, again. As Frisk noted, the weekend is coming and things slow down, and I wanted to get some analysis (and my vote) in beforehand.
Vote: Geolib.
I noted some good analysis from others, and in the end settled on Geolib as the best lynch target for a couple of reasons. The first has been mentioned multiple times now, being his voting history (see Frisk's Reply #485 and Jorbles's Reply #501 for good breakdowns). His day 1 votes (O, Mogrim) seemed RVS and okay, respectively. Day 2 was different though, and Eevee pointed out one aspect while I was typing:
It's just that he first tried to start a wagon on me (town), then instantly changed his mind when I appeared townier and changed to ashersky. Sure, I believe my case on ashersky has a lot of merit and is a good one, but if I'm wrong about ashersky, GeoLib looks scummy I think for sheeping my bad read. I don't know, we need more activity to get to the bottom of this thing!
I think Jorbles's observation is fair, too:
If you think GeoLib is scum, but don't want it to come off as a meta punishment on active players than I would point out that scum who want to appear town do have an incentive to be active (so as to appear that they are contributing valuable information). Sometimes good scum play and good town play are the same thing.
My take on Frisk and Jorbles remains the same, my strongest town readings. I agree with Frisk that for now we treat Volt as town, too. Cuzz and Eevee remain my undecided pool.
I understand casting the second vote makes a statement. I'm starting the wagon, not hopping on it. I'm comfortable enough with the scum read on Geo to vote, so I am. I wanted to be sure to get info in as I'll be available less starting this evening/weekend.
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Treating him as an innocent child is just crazy, unless you said that to make Volt feel too careless.
But yeah, very unlikely to be a real consideration today unless some really weird stuff starts happening. Volt, you have a pretty big scumhunting role now that we all seem to agree you are likely town!
So - your 2nd statement matches mine - right? Unless he does something bonkers - I'm just assuming that Morgrim was town being his usual crazy morgrim self. There's no point in asking Volt about is prior life - there is no plausible explanation for that behavior. We can wifom it until we're blue in the face - but he's got plenty of prior - public games to refer to of similar behavior.
The best part of this replacement is that we don't have to worry (hopefully) about Volt blowing the game - and voting during lylo without thinking - or quick hammering for no reason.
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.. except scum feeds town misinformation (at least to an extent), right.
Well they don't have to it depends on how well the town is playing, I mean if we've got a wrong accusation out there all they have to do is sheep us and we'll hang ourselves.
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Vote Count 2-5
ashersky (2): Eevee, Geolib
GeoLib (2): Jorbles, asherkey
Not voting (3): Captain_Frisk, Cuzz, Voltaire,
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Monday, September 3, at noon EDT
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Heading out now, won't be on today anymore. Deadline is monday though.. would be interesting to hear from GeoLib.
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Ok. I'm back and it looks like there's a wagon forming on me.
I'm a little surprised because I thought I addressed Jorbles points against me pretty thoroughly. Could someone please explain the case against me and I will try to address it.
I have to go again now, but last thought is that, without reading back, ashersky's vote on me feels like he's hopping on an alternative wagon in order to move attention away from himself.
PS. I agree on Volt being almost confirmed town. If Morgrim was playing like that to distract us with scum I doubt he would have asked for replacement unless he's pulling some crazy metagame shit.
I'll try to post again this evening ~9 hours
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I am considering extending the deadline 1 day to compensate for the US holiday on Monday, Labor Day, this would push the deadline to Tuesday, noon forum time. Thoughts?
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Doesn't bother me.
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I don't care either way. Was going to re-read and post, fyi, but the forums were down. May not get to it until much later tonight.
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If we're getting an extension - then I'm going to hold off my promised vote. I should have some "hiding from the in-laws" time this weekend to make a reread.
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Yeah, I'll make it official, especially since I have no idea what my schedule will be like on monday. New deadline is Tuesday at noon, forum time
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So if I'm going to answer the case against me, I need someone to explain the case against me...
Also, Frisk, is your promised vote on me or ashersky? I remember saying you'd vote for him if it didn't put him at L-1, but it seems you've since said I seemed most scummy. Which is it? And when you say I don't read like a noob, do you mean that you don't believe I'm a noob? Because I am. This is my first game of forum mafia and when we started I think I had read at most a day of Mafia IX. I haven't checked it in a while either because I've gotten a lot busier.
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Though I do think there is a case against Geolib. (That being his run on Eevee followed by a quick turnaround to follow Eevee and then start the wagon on ashersky.) ashersky's hopping onto Geolib like this looks pretty opportunistic, and makes me second guess my suspicions. Unvote. For now.
This could be some desperate play, but I'm going to think about this a bit before I revote.
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So if I'm going to answer the case against me, I need someone to explain the case against me...
Also, Frisk, is your promised vote on me or ashersky? I remember saying you'd vote for him if it didn't put him at L-1, but it seems you've since said I seemed most scummy. Which is it? And when you say I don't read like a noob, do you mean that you don't believe I'm a noob? Because I am. This is my first game of forum mafia and when we started I think I had read at most a day of Mafia IX. I haven't checked it in a while either because I've gotten a lot busier.
With the forum outage and the m8 situation, I didn't get a chance to re-read
On semi v/la now, will review tomorrow am I think while my Inlaws fawn over my spawn.
Regarding you not being noob, if you say you are, ok. It just seems that you have a decent grasp of the game for a first time player. More tomorrow.
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Actual experience doesn't even matter, you just don't play like a first-timer.
We are criticizing you of seeming somewhat opportunistic with your votes today. It's a big difference, yesterday you stayed in the back (while town lynched one of its own I might add), today you chose to lead the charge first going against me (another townie), then you noticed I'm not a very good target and immediately joined my case against ashersky (don't know his alignment yet, but if he too is town this looks VERY bad to you).
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Ok - i just reread the thread - and didn't come to a conclusion. Rereading RobZ still made me feel scummy about him (pushing morgrim lynch, preferrring to lynch new players), and he didn't really have any other reads to sheep now that we know that he was actually town instead.
O - our other confirmed townie - really only suspected RobZ - and his final words were to ignore RobZ's read- something that I had missed the first time through.
WIFOM: Was this why O was killed? To keep us from going after Morgrim? I doubt it because it still requires crafty morgrim play.
I have a slightly bad feeling about Cuzz - who has been quiet in general, and quieter on Day 2, but I don't see a case on him - other than he voted for morgrim today.
I have to run out to play some golf - but I'll park a vote on him to get him to talk
Vote: Cuzz - Tell us who you think is scummy and why - or who you think is town and why.
Next checkin likely to be late tonight or early tomorrow AM. We still have some time - but if people are around - I encourage you all to fully reread the thread and start to think about who you like. I'm leaning toward Asher as town n00b at this point (although with some bad play, and I'm unlikely to want to lynch Voltaire. That leaves (from my perspective) eevee, Geolib, Jorbles, and Cuzz as potential lynch candidates.
Oh - Voltaire - you are correct that I did indeed fly under the radar - as i reread the thread - I was shocked to see how quiet i was day 1. I kept expecting to see my next post around the corner and it never came! as others have pointed out, I am in a bunch of games (one fewer since those bastards in M8 lynched me while I was driving)
Of course - you're guilty of the same - but I can't really ask you to defend the behavior.
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Hey Frisk, thanks for calling me out on being too quiet. Sometimes I keep up with reading the thread and forget I haven't personally posted anything substantial in a while, which makes the game less fun, while making me look like scum, so that's no good all around.
I don't have much time to post for a bit so I'll give a brief rundown. I agree with Frisk that Voltaire is probably town. It's hard ignore the meta: I just think Morgrim would not have dropped out if he'd had an interesting role. I'm also leaning toward ashersky being a townie who got a little nervous about a wagon on him.
Eevee, Jorbles, and Geolib I'm a little mixed on. Eevee and Geolib post a lot of in depth analysis, which seems townie to me. I think it'd be hard to post that much content as scum without slipping, though maybe I've missed something. I read town on them for now.
Jorbles has been a bit quiet (though no more so than me), so I'm not sure what to think. I'm a little suspicious of Jorbles repeated emphasis that "good scum play and good town play are the same thing." I can't quite articulate why that strikes me as scummy, but it does.
Now for the controversial move. Frisk has done a decent amount of posting, but most of it seems to be clarifying and questioning the posts of others, without offering a lot of original content, seeming to be active without much actual scumhunting. Then he votes for me. Maybe he really does think I'm scummy, but he says himself that he doesn't see a case for voting for me.
If Frisk were scum, why would he vote for me then? There are already semi-formed wagons on ash and Geo, so trying to start another this close to the deadline doesn't seem productive, so maybe he wants to fly under the radar by voting for someone who hasn't really been suspected so far, and let his partner drive the wagon on another townie.
Sorry for the lack of quotes and the rambling post. I'm in a bit of a rush and I'll try to clarify later. For now, I Vote: Captain_Frisk. This is not OMGUS, though it looks like it. There's no place for that as town on D2, and I doubt scum would be stupid enough to do what I'm doing now. What are others' thoughts on Frisk? Anyone else suspicious?
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So looking back I think I understand what you guys are saying about me voting Eevee, and then soon after, ashersky. There are a couple reason I am taking a more active role today:
1. I realized that while caution was good, at some point I'm going to have to accuse someone of being scum, otherwise my voice wasn't very useful. I am a new player (I guess I'll take it as a compliment that you guys don't think I play like one), and I'm still trying to figure out the most beneficial way to play.
2. I feel like I have more to base reads off of today than I did yesterday. It felt weird to have strong reads on anyone yesterday because there was so little information. With the benefit of an extra day, some votes, and some town-flips, I think it's a little easier to construct a logical argument of why someone would be scum, whereas yesterday it felt sort of random, which I disliked.
My vote on Eevee was also put partially to prompt some dialogue, which I felt we needed. I thought that ashersky came out of that dialogue looking pretty scummy, which is why I changed my vote. I would also buy him as newbie town not quite understanding the game yet, though I note that many others of us are also new and don't seem to be having the same problems (everyone is different, of course).
I see your point about Captain Frisk, Cuzz. I would buy him as scum, but I think it's also good to realize that RL and other games also can interfere sometimes, and I think that's also a possibility.
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Yeah Frisk has been in hardcore lurk mode in every game recently.
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That being said, I dont have a particular town read on him either. FWIW lurky Frisk just flipped scum in MVIII. Going for a new wagon is an interesting idea.
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If Frisk were scum, why would he vote for me then? There are already semi-formed wagons on ash and Geo, so trying to start another this close to the deadline doesn't seem productive, so maybe he wants to fly under the radar by voting for someone who hasn't really been suspected so far, and let his partner drive the wagon on another townie.
Sorry for the lack of quotes and the rambling post. I'm in a bit of a rush and I'll try to clarify later. For now, I Vote: Captain_Frisk. This is not OMGUS, though it looks like it. There's no place for that as town on D2, and I doubt scum would be stupid enough to do what I'm doing now. What are others' thoughts on Frisk? Anyone else suspicious?
He did explicitly say that he was parking a vote on Cuzz "to get him to talk". I don't actually find his vote on Cuzz to be that suspicious, but it is true that he's been doing lots of talking without voting (though he has made heavy use of the FoS which I think he pointed out wasn't that meaningful). I would like to hear Frisk respond to this himself.
For now though I must apologize, I'm also only going to be able to check in once or twice a day until Monday, when I can be a bit more active. I still think that GeoLib is the most suspicious player for his play in the earlier portion of d2. I think ash's playstyle is a little erratic and vote happy, which draws attention to him, but I don't think he's necessarily scummy. Yeah, I'm sheeping a bit, but I do buy this explanation, which makes me comfortable revoting. [Vote: GeoLib]
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Vote Count 2-6
ashersky (2): Eevee, Geolib
GeoLib (2): asherkey, Jorbles
Cuzz (1): Captain_Frisk
Captain_Frisk (1): Cuzz
Not voting (1): Voltaire
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Tuesday, September 4, at noon EDT
Vote Count links have been added to the front page and will continue to be updated throughout for easy access
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Uhoh - weekend times setting in eh?
Unvote
So - there isn't much to respond to from Cuzz -there's no real case, but at least he came in and made a post.
I think its funny that he accuses me of not doing anything, while responding to my post that is actively scum hunting (forcing people to talk)
We're getting closer and it looks like the 2 viable wagons are ash and geo. I find geo to be more scummy here, because i read asherkey as a town newbie making newbie mistakes - but the case against ahser is stronger. If eevee behaved like asherkey, I'd vote for him in 1/2 a second.
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The good thing is, it's quite likely one of them is scum (I think). IF we lynch ashersky and he flips town, we have a super strong case on Geo which is good. Although yeah, hitting scum today would be swell, barring some power role action we are going to be facing 3-2 situation tomorrow if we lynch a townie today.
Dont know, but I definitely think it's too late to start building a case on anyone else. Sucks though, everyone but Voltgrim (:)) looks scummy to me here. Where are the obvtowns, PoE doesn't work if you cant eliminate anyone!
Everyone: Would you be willing to vote for ashersky or GeoLib, and why? Do you agree with me that it has to be one of the two?
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@eevee - I think i would vote geolib, but not Ashersky.
I do not agree that it has to be one of those two. If you voted for me, both Geo and I would be @ L-2, and then you could say it has to be one of us?
However - this close to deadline - and with this little activity - I think I agree that it probably WILL be one of them.
Why do you think that asher is better than geo? What leads you to think that he is scum instead of noob?
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Why do you think that asher is better than geo? What leads you to think that he is scum instead of noob?
First of all, Geo if town would be more helpful tomorrow. 2nd of all, Geo jumping on ashersky when I started the wagon today is very scummy if ashersky is town. So his flip would be more informational, don't know what we'd be able to deduct from Geo's flip other than that Jorbles can't be his buddy so if Geo is mafia, Jorbles has to be town.
They both have basically the same case against them (opportunistic voting). On top of that, ashersky would be the more informational flip and generally has behaved scummier (which could or could not be just inexperience). I don't know, would be great to have both at L-1 to see their behavior (and how others would react), but we don't really have that luxury do we. Noteworthy point is that it's generally harder to lynch mafia than town, because the partner likely won't bus here. Ashersky wagon first gaining speed and then stalling makes it a bit more likely he is scum I think.
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I buy that ashersky could be noob town, but I know that I am town, so if it has to be one of us than I obviously vote ashersky. I don't think the case against me is really that good though. I thought I explained why I voted the way I did pretty well, and I'm not sure anyone has responded to that defense. Additionally, I'm not sure I agree with the idea that we have to lynch either ashersky or me: it's thinking like that that got Robz lynched.
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First of all, Geo if town would be more helpful tomorrow. 2nd of all, Geo jumping on ashersky when I started the wagon today is very scummy if ashersky is town. So his flip would be more informational, don't know what we'd be able to deduct from Geo's flip other than that Jorbles can't be his buddy so if Geo is mafia, Jorbles has to be town.
Knowing how I would flip, I am even more comfortable with my Geo vote.
Eevee makes a good point on the informational nature of my flip. That said, losing me would be detrimental to town, so I say just lynch mafia instead. When I flip town, it casts more suspicion on Geo, as mentioned, but I think would also point some interest Eevee's way, given he tried to start the wagon on me on D1 and did start it on D2.
What does Geo's mafia flip give us, informationally? Helpful to see who voted for him, who didn't, etc. I think it will be just as helpful. Now if he did flip town, that'll look bad for a few of us, including me and Jorbles.
It looks like Frisk and Voltgrim look to stand the safest with either of us getting lynched, so I expect careful play from both of them. Who hammers (and sets up the hammer) will be key to watch.
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Oh that's true, the way Frisk has avoided getting himself acquitted with anyone is indeed quite alarming. Can't really blame Voltgrim imo, since most of the game was played by Grim who always play like that.
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Oh that's true, the way Frisk has avoided getting himself acquitted with anyone is indeed quite alarming. Can't really blame Voltgrim imo, since most of the game was played by Grim who always play like that.
Was that an autocorrect? Do you mean avoid actually picking geolib / ashersky - or avoiding suspicion in general. if the former - that would be fear of putting people @ L-1 prematurely. If the latter, then right back at you buddy. You, Cuzz, Jorbles, Volt and I have all avoided real suspicion. I think part of this is that RobZ and O had no reads other than Morgrim and RobZ to go chase down. So we have asher - who seems scummy or noob, and we have geolib (and i suppose eevee as well) who are trying to push on that play.
I keep thinking about what i would do if I was tracker / cop / vig / serial killer from my previous games. I kindof sucked as a SK in 4, but I did well tracking and copping in MM1, and RMM1. My gut says that I'd want to see what geolib was up to - and if it was time to submit my night action I'd investigate / track / shoot geolib.
Vote: GeoLib - Please no quickhammering folks. Anyone who does so without ample time for discussion from everyone will be regarded as scum.
I'll probably be on for the next hour or so, and then I'll be able to check again Monday morning. After that I'm going to be phone posting only unless someone has a wifi access point.
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I'm at L-1, then. Should I claim. Regardless, you guys are making a mistake
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That was supposed to be a question...
Should I claim?
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What I meant was that, no one flipping anything will really say anything of your alignment. Not true anymore, Geo flipping scum would definitely give you a lot of town cred after that vote.
Problem though! I know I'm not Geo's scum partner. I dont think Jorbles would start a wagon on him if he was his partner, and they are both voting for each other with ashersky so that cant really be a team either. That means that if Geo is indeed scum, the only possible partners for him would be Voltaire (who we have established looks very towny) and Cuzz. Sure, Cuzz could be the partner, but only one likely possibility is.. really bad.
I think this is pretty important and I do not support the GeoLib lynch one bit because of this.
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That was supposed to be a question...
Should I claim?
Don't claim yet. I'm quite sure you are town because of the reasons above, lets see if others agree. Too many people want you gone for you to be scum!
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Ok. I will hold off on claiming then. I can post again this evening, and if someone could let me know which of my actions they want me to defend (that I haven't already), that would be great. I don't really know what to do to dissuade you guys. Please bear in mind that a townie lynch puts us at LyLo tomorrow barring a PR success. Also, at LyLo, scum will be able to quickhammer on any vote that is cast for the win.
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Ok, geo - when you are around tonight - can you explain why you view Asher as scummy enough to put a 2nd vote on him / her early in the day? After further review and the better part of a real life week to reflect - do you still find Ash scummy?
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Ok, geo - when you are around tonight - can you explain why you view Asher as scummy enough to put a 2nd vote on him / her early in the day? After further review and the better part of a real life week to reflect - do you still find Ash scummy?
What do you think of my post above? Who do you think are his possible team mates?
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Ok, geo - when you are around tonight - can you explain why you view Asher as scummy enough to put a 2nd vote on him / her early in the day? After further review and the better part of a real life week to reflect - do you still find Ash scummy?
Ok. So the main reason's I voted for ashersky are:
1. I thought him criticizing Eevee on panicking when he thought he was at L-1 was uncalled for, and potentially scum trying to make a big deal out of nothing.
2. His (potentially willful) misunderstanding of my point that "voting is not a scumtell" which was an earlier criticism of him OMGUSing Eevee.
3. Him repeatedly calling for people to give me "closer look," and then rather than doing this himself. This seemed like it could be scum trying to get someone else to start a wagon that he could join (which he did - note that Jorbles unvoted then revoted, which is why he appears second instead of first)
4. His (potentially willful) misunderstanding of how what counts as role-claiming. This is likely a newb-tell, not a scum-tell
5. Threatening to put Eevee at L-1 (hopping on my wagon)
6. Him reminding Eevee that I was voting for him (Eevee) at the time as if that should make Eevee suspect me.
7. His hammer on Robz ended a potential wagon on him, and caused the lynch of townie
8. His hammer on Robz immediately followed someone asking the town in general whether they thought he should hammer. i.e. he could have left to consensus, but decided to just do it himself.
9. He immediately hopped on Cuzz's Morgrim wagon, when a wagon was forming on him
I didn't consider putting someone at L-2 to be as big of a deal as you obviously do. As long as everyone is careful with their votes, L-2 shouldn't be a problem.
As to my current opinions on ashersky's scumminess, I think there are two options:
1. He's playing as a newbish town, confused about a number of the conventions, and not very level-headedly.
2. He is scum, often trying to deflect suspicion away from himself, jumping on wagons whenever he thinks they might succeed in lynching town, and hiding behind being a noob to cover his more egregious mistakes.
I think the first option is possible, but I think his play so far has been slightly anti-town, regardless of his alignment.
For me, I know there to be only one option:
1. Nooby town who is nevertheless attempting to play cautiously for the benefit of the town (please note the difference between ashersky and me when a wagon formed on us. I am not panicked, but I know you guys are making the wrong decision). Prepared to claim if necessary.
I'm not sure there's time to form a new wagon. I do not agree with Eevee's assessment that a new wagon would be impossible (it looks like we might be able to build one on Frisk). My read on Frisk is pretty null though: I could certainly see him as scum who's hiding behind V/LA to not post much content, but I could also see him as actually just busy. For now, my favorite wagon is ashersky, and creating my list of reasons has solidified my position (though I am still far from certain that he's scum).
Are there any other questions I can answer?
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That means that if Geo is indeed scum, the only possible partners for him would be Voltaire (who we have established looks very towny) and Cuzz. Sure, Cuzz could be the partner, but only one likely possibility is.. really bad.
Eevee, if it helps your analysis, I'm not scum!
I'm not in favor of this Geolib lynch. I'm not crazy about the ashersky lynch either, but I'd prefer it to Geolib. My vote stays on Frisk.
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Ok, geo - when you are around tonight - can you explain why you view Asher as scummy enough to put a 2nd vote on him / her early in the day? After further review and the better part of a real life week to reflect - do you still find Ash scummy?
What do you think of my post above? Who do you think are his possible team mates?
Oh - was this at me? I read it more as additional questions for geolib.
I found your post somewhat confusing. i don't really see how the Asher flip is more informative than the geo. I mean - I can see your argument that if Ashery magically died right now - and flipped town - then you'd be pretty suspicious of geo. However, you'll need 2 other people on the wagon, so its not like an Asher town flip is going to definitely implicate geo. You also don't seem at all convinced that asher is scum. I think going for an informational lynch over a scum lynch is a bad idea at this point.
I do agree that the fact that the wagon has stalled is interesting, although the same thing can be said of Mr. Geolib.
As for geo partners - I think i've already sortof answered that.
My reads are that Morgrim/Volt is town, and that Asher is town. That leaves 2 scum remaining out of {Cuzz, Eevee, Geolib, Jorbles}. I am the least suspicious of you, but I think this is M7 carry over. Geo is my strongest read out of the group.
Reminder folks - we have 24 hours. If Cuzz won't vote geo, Geo won't vote geo, eevee doesn't want to, that really leaves Volt. Volt - if you say no to geo, then we need to either find another candidate - or we need to be prepared to no lynch twice in a row. (a mislynch with 6 townies is just as game ending as a mislynch with 5, and its alot harder to get 4 townies to co-operate than it is to get 3)
I've got about 2 more hours until I'm heading across the lake. Not sure how good the phone data is going to be, i'll have to see if neighbors have wifi, but don't count on me making any mega posts.
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I meant the analysis where I asked about Geo's possible partners! Frisk, if Geo is scum like you seem to think, who is his partner? I came to the conclusion Cuzz is like the only possibility. Do you think Jorbles would bus Geo like that?
Realizing this made me decide I won't vote for Geo today unless he claims mafia. And I would really like to get a lynch through. Prepared to switch to Frisk if that's necessary. Guys who vote for Geo, come on, really think about it! Who can be his partner if he is scum? I think this is pretty darn important!
Problem though! I know I'm not Geo's scum partner. I dont think Jorbles would start a wagon on him if he was his partner, and they are both voting for each other with ashersky so that cant really be a team either. That means that if Geo is indeed scum, the only possible partners for him would be Voltaire (who we have established looks very towny) and Cuzz. Sure, Cuzz could be the partner, but only one likely possibility is.. really bad.
I think this is pretty important and I do not support the GeoLib lynch one bit because of this.
Oh and I cut out the chapter where I mentioned Frisk, but since he put Geo to L-1, I don't see that team either.
So I see two scenarios,
A) Geo is scum with Cuzz and all the townies are gunning for him
B) Geo is town, scum wants him gone and enough of town is wrong about him.
Seriously, how is A more likely than B? Or do you think some super bus is going on? I seriously thinks this many people wanting Geo gone makes him almost obvtown.
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I still don't understand how mafia VII clears me in this game. Is it just me playing similar than I was there? Because it's not at all confirmed that I'm mistaken in this game! On the contrary, I was one of the few who were right about Robz.. and I really think I'm right about GeoLib too now.
In case I die at night, Frisk is quickly starting to become my strongest scumread. The mafia VII comments might be him wanting to win me to his side so he can feed me a case on a townie tomorrow and see me drive it home because he (correctly) thinks that's what I tend to do. Also putting a GeoLib who I really think is town to L-1 is a scummy act, although he could just disagree with my analysis about him. I wish we had more time!
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Vote: Captain Frisk actually. I am ready to change my vote back to ashersky, but simply refuse to vote for Geo today. Lets see what happens, I'll try to be on as much as I can.
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I meant the analysis where I asked about Geo's possible partners! Frisk, if Geo is scum like you seem to think, who is his partner? I came to the conclusion Cuzz is like the only possibility. Do you think Jorbles would bus Geo like that?
Realizing this made me decide I won't vote for Geo today unless he claims mafia. And I would really like to get a lynch through. Prepared to switch to Frisk if that's necessary. Guys who vote for Geo, come on, really think about it! Who can be his partner if he is scum? I think this is pretty darn important!
Problem though! I know I'm not Geo's scum partner. I dont think Jorbles would start a wagon on him if he was his partner, and they are both voting for each other with ashersky so that cant really be a team either. That means that if Geo is indeed scum, the only possible partners for him would be Voltaire (who we have established looks very towny) and Cuzz. Sure, Cuzz could be the partner, but only one likely possibility is.. really bad.
I think this is pretty important and I do not support the GeoLib lynch one bit because of this.
Oh and I cut out the chapter where I mentioned Frisk, but since he put Geo to L-1, I don't see that team either.
So I see two scenarios,
A) Geo is scum with Cuzz and all the townies are gunning for him
B) Geo is town, scum wants him gone and enough of town is wrong about him.
Seriously, how is A more likely than B? Or do you think some super bus is going on? I seriously thinks this many people wanting Geo gone makes him almost obvtown.
ok - I can see that from your perspective as town:
However, from my perspective we can't clear you either as a potential geolib partner - but I agree that a jorbles / geolib pairing is unlikely.
So - lets flip it around and look at Asher as scum. In theory you and Geo are clear for not being willing to buss. Morgrim is out - so that leaves:
Me, Jorbles, and Cuzz as potential partners. If you can clear yourself in your analysis, I can do the same.
So I can see
Jorbles and Cuzz as partners of Asher.
or
You and Cuzz as potential partners of Geolib.
So - from my perspective they are equivalent from a potential partners perspective - except that I view Geolib as scummier than Asher.
Boy am I going to be mad if Morgim was scum.
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@eevee - how convinced are you on Asher? If he is noob town as I fear - who do you suspect?
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Absolutely anyone but me and Geo can be partners with you though (and those two are my strongest town reads already. Yeah, Geo is stonger than Voltaire.)
So yeah, really happy with my vote on you. Especially so because you seem to forget your supposed "town read" on me when considering possible scum pairs.
@Frisk
Still very suspicious but not convinced by any means. I mean, we should go after mafia play, not scummy play. Which is actually why I changed to you.
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Absolutely anyone but me and Geo can be partners with you though (and those two are my strongest town reads already. Yeah, Geo is stonger than Voltaire.)
So yeah, really happy with my vote on you. Especially so because you seem to forget your supposed "town read" on me when considering possible scum pairs.
@Frisk
Still very suspicious but not convinced by any means. I mean, we should go after mafia play, not scummy play. Which is actually why I changed to you.
I'm not forgetting my "town" read. i just find you less scummy than the other 3 - but not nearly as close to "obv town" that Voltaire is.
Why do you have such a strong town read on Geo? You don't see picking on Asher as slightly scummy at all?
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Where is everyone else? I'm starting to get a timchen v. Galz vibe here.
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Absolutely anyone but me and Geo can be partners with you though (and those two are my strongest town reads already. Yeah, Geo is stonger than Voltaire.)
So yeah, really happy with my vote on you. Especially so because you seem to forget your supposed "town read" on me when considering possible scum pairs.
@Frisk
Still very suspicious but not convinced by any means. I mean, we should go after mafia play, not scummy play. Which is actually why I changed to you.
I'm not forgetting my "town" read. i just find you less scummy than the other 3 - but not nearly as close to "obv town" that Voltaire is.
Why do you have such a strong town read on Geo? You don't see picking on Asher as slightly scummy at all?
The case on Geo is just flimsy at best. His post seem very helpful and insightful (yeah I so try to remember my bias) and the biggest thing is the scumpair - analysis. Too many want him dead for him to be scum. Remember I 100% know I'm town.
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His jumping on ashersky could be scum trying to wagon, or a townie who thought my case on ash was better than his own me. It's not like he has repeatedly done something like that throughout the game, just that one time ans for ok reasons. It certainly got things moving.
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Too many people? I see 3 people saying no, and 3 saying yes. 6 would be too many. 5 might be.
The case on everyone is flimsy, because robz and O left us with no reads, morgrim was useless, and cuzz is not active.
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Too many people? I see 3 people saying no, and 3 saying yes. 6 would be too many. 5 might be.
The case on everyone is flimsy, because robz and O left us with no reads, morgrim was useless, and cuzz is not active.
The guys who dont want him gone are all my town reads (+cuzz) is the thing. Everyone who i view scummy wants Geo gone. Only possible buddy for Geo would be cuzz. So you and ashesrsky and Jorbles (and cuzz) are just more likely to be mafia.
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So you think both scum are already on the wagon? That's pretty aggressive.
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Chiming in here, sorry for not being around as much--weekend plus today is my birthday.
I'll start by saying I'm still not seeing Frisk as anything but town for now. Cuzz's vote for him (ages ago now, but reaffirmed more recently) seems like the safe play for someone who's been safely distanced from the heavy action against me and Geo, which could be slightly scummy and is definitely smart. Eevee's switch over to Frisk can read scummy, too, but he does give his reasons for it.
What I've seen over the last page and a half of posts is Eevee vehemently defending Geo, mostly based on the difficulty in finding a partner for him as mafia, and Frisk making some good counter-arguments. Eevee's arguments are based on him being town and not a possible scum partner for Geo, of course. I'd guess it's pretty bad mafia play to so publicly defend someone (if he flips scum, that looks terrible for Eevee), so Eevee must be <i>really</i> sure Geo is town. Here's where WIFOM thinking begins, but...
If Eevee is mafia, he knows Jorbles is town, so if he gets someone else lynched, he looks good for protecting town-Jorbles. Or...
If Eevee is mafia, he knows Jorbles is mafia, and he needs to protect him, and now more than ever because he's so tied to him. Or...
Eevee is town and just really sure about Jorbles. I mean, we have to point out that when Robz got to L-1 on D1, Eevee tried to start a new wagon to save him, and he confirmed town. Switching to Frisk now is analogous to that, possibly.
So to answer Eevee's questions on possible scum partners for Geo: Eevee or Cuzz. Volt as the outside possibility. Agree with Frisk on the annoyance that would be had if Volt is scum and we're just blithely ignoring him.
I'd like to see more from Cuzz, and especially (a vote) from Volt. That would help determine more things about the quieter ones. The rest of us seem pretty set.
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So you think both scum are already on the wagon? That's pretty aggressive.
Well either that or cuzz is scum, yes. Or I guess Voltgrim too, his inactivity is rapidly making
him less and less obvtown. Remember, a) most likely mafia is newer players and b) scum can afford bold play, if they get town lynched today, they probably have us at lylo tomorrow and will win if a single townie votes for another townie.
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Good post ashersky, and happy birthday!
You are basically saying you approve of me clearing Geo assuming I'm town? I do understand you can't know I'm town, but if I'm nightkilled you all should definitely remember this.
I didnt quite understand the analysis regarding Jorbles, though?
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Yeah, where I wrote Jorbles over and over, it should say Geolib. So, that whole "if Eevee is..." sequence was about you in regards to Geolib. For some reason, I've confused their names all game. Six letters, starts with the same sound. Ah well. I'd go back and edit, but I don't think you're supposed to in forum games, right?
I actually forgot all about Jorbles in my analysis. He hasn't been around in awhile either.
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For clarity's sake, I quoted and edited below.
Chiming in here, sorry for not being around as much--weekend plus today is my birthday.
I'll start by saying I'm still not seeing Frisk as anything but town for now. Cuzz's vote for him (ages ago now, but reaffirmed more recently) seems like the safe play for someone who's been safely distanced from the heavy action against me and Geo, which could be slightly scummy and is definitely smart. Eevee's switch over to Frisk can read scummy, too, but he does give his reasons for it.
What I've seen over the last page and a half of posts is Eevee vehemently defending Geo, mostly based on the difficulty in finding a partner for him as mafia, and Frisk making some good counter-arguments. Eevee's arguments are based on him being town and not a possible scum partner for Geo, of course. I'd guess it's pretty bad mafia play to so publicly defend someone (if he flips scum, that looks terrible for Eevee), so Eevee must be <i>really</i> sure Geo is town. Here's where WIFOM thinking begins, but...
If Eevee is mafia, he knows Geo is town, so if he gets someone else lynched, he looks good for protecting town: Geo. Or...
If Eevee is mafia, he knows Geo is mafia, and he needs to protect him, and now more than ever because he's so tied to him. Or...
Eevee is town and just really sure about Geo. I mean, we have to point out that when Robz got to L-1 on D1, Eevee tried to start a new wagon to save him, and he confirmed town. Switching to Frisk now is analogous to that, possibly.
So to answer Eevee's questions on possible scum partners for Geo: Eevee or Cuzz. Volt as the outside possibility. Agree with Frisk on the annoyance that would be had if Volt is scum and we're just blithely ignoring him.
I'd like to see more from Cuzz, and especially (a vote) from Volt. That would help determine more things about the quieter ones. The rest of us seem pretty set.
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All right guys, I'm going dark. Happy birthday! I'll get some drunken phone posting from the BBQ in later.
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I think Eevee's scum-partner analysis of me makes sense (and, of course, I know it comes to the correct conclusion). Also, his strong defense of (from my view) confirmed townie at this point makes him almost obvtown to me. I don't think it would make sense for mafia to attempt to derail such a promising townie lynch at this point in the game. I still think it is unlikely for meta reasons that voltgrim is scum, but volt! post more! We need all the help we can get. That leaves four more who could be scum. I can see ashersky as noobish town, and my strongest scum read is quickly becoming Frisk, but I don't feel comfortable lynching someone who just "went dark." Also, if he's scum, why is he defending ashersky unless he is also scum? Like I said with Eevee attempting to stop my lynch, it doesn't seem like good mafia play.
Damnit! I don't know whom we should lynch and we're running up against the deadline here. I think if I had to pick someone, I might just pick Jorbles, partially by POE. I really don't know though, and since there's no wagon on him, starting a new one seems silly. I have to go now, and I won't be able to post until this evening in ~6 hours.
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Vote Count 2-7
ashersky (1): Geolib
GeoLib (3): asherkey, Jorbles, Captain_Frisk {L-1}
Captain_Frisk (2): Cuzz, Eevee
Not voting (1): Voltaire
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Tuesday, September 4, at noon EDT
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Wrong volt I think
Backup mod troll
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Does anyone else feel like Frisk didn't really answer my accusations?
I don't have any townread of Jorbles whatsoever and PoE does kind of take us to him, so don't mind Jorbles lynch either if others feel different about Frisk. Same goes for Cuzz. Only takes 2 after Geo and me! Jorbles Cuzz ashersky Volt, thoughts on these alternative lynch targets for today? If I read the clock right, we have 23˝ hours left.
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Wrong volt I think
Backup mod troll
Yeah. Sorry voltgloss. I meant voltaire. post more! The vote count is appreciated however.
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hey guys, sorry was out most of yesterday and I've just been catching up over breakfast. here's my thoughts and my willingness to lynch at this point.
ashersky: I think his play has just been newbishness. I am not willing to lynch him. On a side note I don't like his possible Geo/Eevee theory as it would mean that both scum were off the wagon on d1, which seems incredibly unlikely.
Geolib: This is still my strongest scum read and I think he's turning it around on us. Obviously my vote indicates I am willing to lynch.
Eevee: PoE (see above) basically clears Eevee in my mind. Would not lynch.
Voltaire: Meta indicates to me that he's pretty town. Would not lynch.
Captain Frisk: His hanging back has been pretty suspicious (kudos to whoever noticed that). I could see him being scum and could lynch him if it's that or no lynch. I still think Geolib is more suspicious though.
Cuzz: Cuzz has been hanging back as much as Frisk and in my mind is just as suspicious.
I am not changing my vote unless it's that or a no lynch, and I'd rather no lynch than lynch ash, Eevee or Voltaire, which I know you may perceive as less than ideal, but if no one agrees with me I guess that's how it is.
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Jorbles, you list Frisk as 2nd most suspicious. I find Geo & Frisk a very unlikely scumpair because Frisk just put Geo at L-1. You seem to agree with me that Voltaire and myself do not form a scum pair with Geo, so.. Geo is your stongest scum read and only possible partner for him in your mind is Cuzz? You don't think this is problematic?
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Jorbles, you list Frisk as 2nd most suspicious. I find Geo & Frisk a very unlikely scumpair because Frisk just put Geo at L-1. You seem to agree with me that Voltaire and myself do not form a scum pair with Geo, so.. Geo is your stongest scum read and only possible partner for him in your mind is Cuzz? You don't think this is problematic?
I feel like I keep coming back to this, but Eevee's unavoidably tied to Geo now. If he flips scum, as some of us feel he will, finding his scum buddy, which is Eevee's greatest worry, won't be as difficult as he keeps making it sound. If he flips town, Eevee will know where to start looking for scum.
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Jorbles, you list Frisk as 2nd most suspicious. I find Geo & Frisk a very unlikely scumpair because Frisk just put Geo at L-1. You seem to agree with me that Voltaire and myself do not form a scum pair with Geo, so.. Geo is your stongest scum read and only possible partner for him in your mind is Cuzz? You don't think this is problematic?
Oh shoot, you're totally right. Sorry I've only got a second, but I'll do more careful reading and check in later today to cast a vote. Unvote.
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Jorbles, you list Frisk as 2nd most suspicious. I find Geo & Frisk a very unlikely scumpair because Frisk just put Geo at L-1. You seem to agree with me that Voltaire and myself do not form a scum pair with Geo, so.. Geo is your stongest scum read and only possible partner for him in your mind is Cuzz? You don't think this is problematic?
Oh shoot, you're totally right. Sorry I've only got a second, but I'll do more careful reading and check in later today to cast a vote. Unvote.
That was the pro-town thing to do, thank you.
@ashersky
I don't mean that as "oh woe us how are we going to find his buddy", I mean it as evidence of him being town! Jorbles seems to agree with me and I really really want to FoS Frisk for not seeing it too.
And it's not like GeoLib's supposedly informational flip is any reason to vote for him atm. We need to lynch mafia today or we are in bad bad shape.
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@ashersky
We need to lynch mafia today or we are in bad bad shape.
With this I can agree. We are what, 17 hours from deadline? We need to agree on mafia soon.
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I think Jorbles's move was pretty pro-town. Similarly I suspect Frisk for not getting Eevee's point, but I'm not sure he makes sense as scum unless ashersky is also scum.
In my mind potential candidates are:
Ashersky
Jorbles
Cuzz
Frisk
Everyone else I would not be willing to lynch today. I buy ashersky as noob town, and I think that might vindicate his behavior. Jorbles most recent move makes him seem less scummy to me. Cuzz could easily be scum: he's been hanging back all game. I already said what I said about Frisk.
Honestly, I really don't have time to read back right now. I would strongly appreciate an analysis from someone else.
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its almost crazy how similar my views are with geolob. i too would also be ready to
vote for cuzz, but i still really think frisk is our best shot. it's important to have your vote somewhere, it really is ok to change it if situation calls for that.
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Vote Count 2-7
ashersky (1): Geolib
GeoLib (2): asherkey, Captain_Frisk
Captain_Frisk (2): Cuzz, Eevee
Not voting (2): Voltaire, Jorbles
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Tuesday, September 4, at noon EDT
I have a doc appointment 30 minutes before the deadline, so if it gets to that point if neither Volt or I are around no votes will be acknowledged past noon, but feel free to continue in twilight until one of us locks the thread.
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Drunk phone posting. Did not play any kickball.
Looks like we are moving slowly. I suppose I could get behind a buzz lynch. Is hammer Asher at deadline just to avoid no lynch. A shot at scum is better than 2 confirmed town kills.
Eevee - what is your read on jorbles. I am null, but can't easily re read on phone.
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Have we heard from Voltaire?
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We've got half a day until deadline. The wagons on Geolib and ashersky have fizzled. If anyone else wanted to vote for them, they've had plenty of time and haven't done so. Frisk is at L-2, and....
...my strongest scum read is quickly becoming Frisk...
Captain Frisk: His hanging back has been pretty suspicious (kudos to whoever noticed that). I could see him being scum and could lynch him if it's that or no lynch.
...it looks like we do have the votes to lynch him. Obviously I'm not positive he's scum (if I was, I'd be scum), but we need to lynch someone. I haven't seen a great case for anyone else, and until someone presents one, I'm not comfortable voting for anyone else. I'd urge Jorbles and Geolib to go for it.
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Have we heard from Voltaire?
No, and I'd really like to soon.
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Phoneposting from bed, I'll wake up a bit before deadline.
Frisk, I liked how Jorbles agrees with me a couple posts back (smiley), but other tyan thinking his reads and views seem reasonable to me, not very much of a read from him no. Slight town I guess.
Does anyone else feel like Frisk is dodging the fact he is slowly becoming our #1 scum read? Maybe hoping the issue just goes away if he avoids it long enough? Frisk, if you are town you should put up a better fight! I tend to respond well to kickball-style emotional defenses.
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Tipsy posting. Sorry. About to go to bed. May be able to post in the morning, but then I have class until past noon. If I could, I'd give my voting authority to Eevee because he is my strongest town read that is active (volt has been disappointingly silent). With that in mind I vote: Captain_Frisk. I think cuzz encouraging others to move on Frisk could be read as scummy, but not sure. He has no votes on him, so probably not going to help to vote him. I'll try to read in the morning.
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Phoneposting from bed, I'll wake up a bit before deadline.
Frisk, I liked how Jorbles agrees with me a couple posts back (smiley), but other tyan thinking his reads and views seem reasonable to me, not very much of a read from him no. Slight town I guess.
Does anyone else feel like Frisk is dodging the fact he is slowly becoming our #1 scum read? Maybe hoping the issue just goes away if he avoids it long enough? Frisk, if you are town you should put up a better fight! I tend to respond well to kickball-style emotional defenses.
What do you want me to say? I see no case - other than that I refused I vote for town noob with you. Geo suspects be because I suspect him, and Cuzz voted me when I voted him to make him talk.
You know your scum pair analysis? The one that says geo can't be scum because his only buddy would be Cuzz? You have town reads on jorbles, volt, yourself, geo. that leaves me, Cuzz, Asher.
I think geo is into something in his last post.
vote: cuzz. I may be throwing it away, but he's totally flying under the radar almost as much as volt- without the benefit of the morgrim defense. He's still my #2 behind geo, but if you guys lynh me - and then geo dies and is town - then at least we won't leave you with no reads.
Go back and read cuzz's vote for me. Total omgus.
Also fos babies for waking up in the middle of the night.
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I wholeheartedly agree with your case on cuzz, and think town should really push it especially if you flip town. Also, on an emotional level your defense felt sincere, but you're a sneaky guy and there is no time so I wont unvote. If I die at night, a thing to note: Frisk put Geo at L-1 today, so they likely are not a scumpair.
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This is the second time you've suggested going after X if Y flips town. This shows a shockin willingness to lynch town - hedging much?
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Vote: Cuzz. Deadline approaches and the wagons are breaking up.
I agree that he's been flying under the radar, and posting opportunistically only. I've been on the record with a town read on Frisk in the past.
Geo is still my #1, with Cuzz and (maybe) Eevee (strong town play from an experienced player could be great mafia play) as other possibilities. I really think we need to hear from Voltgrim soon, and Jorbles will hopefully be back soon.
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Vote Count 2-8
Captain_Frisk (3): Cuzz, Eevee, Geolib {L-1}
Cuzz (2): Captain_Frisk, ashersky
Not voting (2): Voltaire, Jorbles
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Lynch deadline: Tuesday, September 4, at noon EDT (3.5 hours from now)
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vote: cuzz. I may be throwing it away, but he's totally flying under the radar almost as much as volt- without the benefit of the morgrim defense. He's still my #2 behind geo, but if you guys lynh me - and then geo dies and is town - then at least we won't leave you with no reads.
Go back and read cuzz's vote for me. Total omgus.
I really don't think it's fair to say I'm lurking as much as Volt. You called me out on being quiet, so I've been trying to be conscious of that and posting more. Volt has hardly said anything substantial since he joined the game (and I'm beginning to fear the obvtown read is a mistake, but that's a dicsussion for another day with a deadline looming). And what is the "Morgrim defense" anyway? That Volt can claim to be emulating Morgrim's style? I certainly don't buy that as any kind of defense.
As I explained, my vote on you was not omgus, just as yours on me now isn't either. I voted for you because I thought you are scum, and you're voting for me either because you are scum, or I'm wrong and you are town and think I'm scum (which would then make us both wrong). Omgus votes don't even make sense at this point in the game. That's something you do as a joke during RVS, not as a serious vote over halfway through D2.
You're making a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. I certainly voted for you after you first voted for me, but not because of it. My reasons were explained at the time, but were essentially because I thought you had been rather absent during D1 and early on D2, and that your posts until then were harmless fluff designed to make yourself look active and devoid of serious scumhunting. My posting at the time was due to you for the most part (I had been meaning to do a long post anyway, but when you called me out for lurking I decided to bang one out right then), but it's content wasn't. My post just happened to include the list of who I thought was scum, which happened to include you.
I think geo is into something in his last post.
I think so too. Especially the part where he votes for you.
Also fos babies for waking up in the middle of the night.
lol.
This is the second time you've suggested going after X if Y flips town. This shows a shockin willingness to lynch town - hedging much?
I don't think that's a fair accusation. There's still a lot of town left, and odds for lynching scum aren't greatly in our favor, though we will be kinda screwed if we don't.
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I see that's two votes on me now. I've gotta run to class, and won't be able to post again until about an hour before deadline, but I'd appreciate it if no one lynch me until I can get back. I know it's still only L-2, but things often move fast at the deadline. Feel free to hammer Frisk in my absence though :-)
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@Frisk
Yeah, only scum KNOW what someone is going to flip. Even if I was 90% sure you are scum (I'm not), it would make sense to prepare for the scenario where you flip town.
Interesting that ashersky rather voted for Cuzz than hammered Frisk. I dont mind the cuzz wagon, even his latest posts look scummy.. I'll be monitoring this thread until the deadline and might move my vote to cuzz still.
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Crap. Sorry guys. Was at WorldCon all weekend, but thought I would have time to post yesterday. Re-reading right now, should have time for a worthwhile post before the deadline FWIW.
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Crap. Sorry guys. Was at WorldCon all weekend, but thought I would have time to post yesterday. Re-reading right now, should have time for a worthwhile post before the deadline FWIW.
Good. Even more important than the post would be a worthwhile vote. :)
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Guys, I'm willing to hammer Frisk. I'm going to finish re-reading the thread. Frisk, are you still dark? If you have a defense/claim, we need it now.*
*I know it's not very town of me over the weekend and with 105 minutes until the deadline but I'm trying to make the best of this. Longer version soon, almost done with thread. Short version: See my earliest post about Frisk, I called him out for flying under-the-radar, that read has increased ever since.
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Are you sure volt? I have no defense because there is no case, but I'll claim if you demand it.
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Here's what I'm thinking. No time for quotes, sorry, I can do it during twilight but of course it would be too late.
Been wondering for an Ash-Frisk pairing for a long time. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it was Frisk who first explanied Ash's super-scummy behavior as noob-town. Everyone then agreed (including me). This still doesn't solve the problem of how big the wagon was on Ash unless it was Frisk artfully taking the wheels off the wagon.
Eevee's note about Ash's most recent vote helps this theory.
I also don't like people flying under the radar (yes, this would also make me much more scummy than I've appeared, but I really think the meta is my best town-read) and Cuzz is a wildcard I'm comfortable with. This lines me up in thinking (on this issue) with Eevee and GeoLib.
Posting now to get this out there for others to read. More following.
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Guys, I'm willing to hammer Frisk. I'm going to finish re-reading the thread. Frisk, are you still dark? If you have a defense/claim, we need it now.*
*I know it's not very town of me over the weekend and with 105 minutes until the deadline but I'm trying to make the best of this. Longer version soon, almost done with thread. Short version: See my earliest post about Frisk, I called him out for flying under-the-radar, that read has increased ever since.
So you think Frisk is better than Cuzz I gather? Because "he has more votes" is not a reason here, as people (at least myself) have expressed willingness to change.
It's atually quite stupid, I'm starting to feel like Cuzz is scummier.. but I would feel SO STUPID if I changed and Frisk was scum and Cuzz was town. I know being afraid of humiliating outcomes shouldn't have any bearing in decisionmaking.
FRISK YES YOU SHOULD CLAIM NOW. I think Voltaires last post made me think think you are better than Cuzz again.
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Just to be clear, I vote the top half of that post before seeing Frisk's and Voltaire's posts. It became kind of moot but decided to post it anyways.
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This is the second time you've suggested going after X if Y flips town. This shows a shockin willingness to lynch town - hedging much?
You're an experienced player, right? This seems scummy to me then - there's just not that much wrong with this statement.
Are you sure volt? I have no defense because there is no case, but I'll claim if you demand it.
Somebody has to put their money where their mouth is, and I've put myself in a power-position with the town (in a bad way) with my absense. I'm going for it. Should you claim a power-role, and it seems plausible to me, I'm willing to go Cuzz but that's about it (unless Eevee can show me otherwise, he's the only one I'm treating as obvtown right now).
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Guys, I'm willing to hammer Frisk. I'm going to finish re-reading the thread. Frisk, are you still dark? If you have a defense/claim, we need it now.*
*I know it's not very town of me over the weekend and with 105 minutes until the deadline but I'm trying to make the best of this. Longer version soon, almost done with thread. Short version: See my earliest post about Frisk, I called him out for flying under-the-radar, that read has increased ever since.
So you think Frisk is better than Cuzz I gather? Because "he has more votes" is not a reason here, as people (at least myself) have expressed willingness to change.
It's atually quite stupid, I'm starting to feel like Cuzz is scummier.. but I would feel SO STUPID if I changed and Frisk was scum and Cuzz was town. I know being afraid of humiliating outcomes shouldn't have any bearing in decisionmaking.
Yes, I think Frisk is more likely. I too am willing to vote for either.
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Guys, I'm willing to hammer Frisk. I'm going to finish re-reading the thread. Frisk, are you still dark? If you have a defense/claim, we need it now.*
*I know it's not very town of me over the weekend and with 105 minutes until the deadline but I'm trying to make the best of this. Longer version soon, almost done with thread. Short version: See my earliest post about Frisk, I called him out for flying under-the-radar, that read has increased ever since.
So you think Frisk is better than Cuzz I gather? Because "he has more votes" is not a reason here, as people (at least myself) have expressed willingness to change.
It's atually quite stupid, I'm starting to feel like Cuzz is scummier.. but I would feel SO STUPID if I changed and Frisk was scum and Cuzz was town. I know being afraid of humiliating outcomes shouldn't have any bearing in decisionmaking.
Yes, I think Frisk is more likely. I too am willing to vote for either.
We'll wait for Frisk's claim then. I really liked your case better fwiw + Frisk's recent behaviour has been very very scummy I think. Hopefully Cuzz is online too, so we get to hear his side of things.
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Scummy because I'm phone posting while on vacation? What specifically is scummy? First it's not votig geo/ ash because you wanted everyone in town todo that? And then scummy because I liked gro instead?
Going to my grandfathers in. Second. I think I have wifi there.
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Guys, I'm willing to hammer Frisk. I'm going to finish re-reading the thread. Frisk, are you still dark? If you have a defense/claim, we need it now.*
*I know it's not very town of me over the weekend and with 105 minutes until the deadline but I'm trying to make the best of this. Longer version soon, almost done with thread. Short version: See my earliest post about Frisk, I called him out for flying under-the-radar, that read has increased ever since.
So you think Frisk is better than Cuzz I gather? Because "he has more votes" is not a reason here, as people (at least myself) have expressed willingness to change.
It's atually quite stupid, I'm starting to feel like Cuzz is scummier.. but I would feel SO STUPID if I changed and Frisk was scum and Cuzz was town. I know being afraid of humiliating outcomes shouldn't have any bearing in decisionmaking.
Yes, I think Frisk is more likely. I too am willing to vote for either.
We'll wait for Frisk's claim then. I really liked your case better fwiw + Frisk's recent behaviour has been very very scummy I think. Hopefully Cuzz is online too, so we get to hear his side of things.
By "my side" do you mean you want me to claim also? Other than that, I'm not sure what else to say, but I don't think it's appropriate since I'm still only at L-2.
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Cuzz didnt mean you should claim, but in case we need to react to Frisk's claim, it's better to have more people online.
Frisk, how about claiming already? Less than 1h left..
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Cuzz didnt mean you should claim, but in case we need to react to Frisk's claim, it's better to have more people online.
Frisk, how about claiming already? Less than 1h left..
If Frisk claims do we lynch Cuzz no matter what? Don't know if that's good, just thinking ahead, if Frisk is mafia he's going to claim a power role, right, so then we'll lynch Cuzz? How else could this play out?
*not necessarily approving any of this, just trying to predict the next 56 minutes
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I'm curious about this myself. It'd be nice to be able to wait for a counterclaim, but there's not much time, and such a counterclaim might not be around by the deadline. Also, this is not a completely open setup so we don't even know which PRs exist. What would you two (Eevee and Voltaire) do if Frisk claims a PR versus VT? And shouldn't I get the same opportunity to claim before you decide to lynch me instead of Frisk?
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Depends on what he claims. We shouldn't tell him what exactly he needs to do to not get lynched here..
But no cuzz, obviously we wont just snap-lynch you if he claims a power role. I think Frisk waiting this long is very scummy, very unfortunate he only has mobile access. But he has posted several times without claiming..
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Depends on what he claims. We shouldn't tell him what exactly he needs to do to not get lynched here..
But no cuzz, obviously we wont just snap-lynch you if he claims a power role. I think Frisk waiting this long is very scummy, very unfortunate he only has mobile access. But he has posted several times without claiming..
Yeah, that last bit is pretty anti-town (note not "scum"), at the very least.
Good call on the first part, Eevee.
Cuzz, let's just say it's good you're around.
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Cuzz, let's just say it's good you're around.
I wouldn't miss it!
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All right guys - you asked for it. I wouldn't claim this if we weren't potentially going down to 3 on 2, because I view it as anti town.
I'm the cop. I last night I was mildly suspicious of Geo - so I attempted to cop him. Unfortunately, either the jailkeeper felt the same way and kept him, or they thought I was suspicious and jailkept me. Either way, the jailkeeper knows I'm telling the truth.
I've been on phone only for the better part of a day - so its been hard to really review - plus we're on vacation so the wife isn't very pleased with this post at all.
Someone unvote fast before scum hammers the cop.
Where the hell is Jorbles? Does no-one notice his abscence?
This is straight out of Mafia 7 - kill all the experienced players. Eevee you are next I suspect.
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Unvote
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(Just for now, time to think for everyone and stuff. Looks like a plausible claim on first glance..)
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(Just for now, time to think for everyone and stuff. Looks like a plausible claim on first glance..)
I'm trying to read really fast if Frisk said anything about Geo on Day 1.
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Yeah, Vote: cuzz.
If he is lying, it's just so likely he'll get caught. He could lie to out a power role, but there would be easier ways.
@Volt
Good call.
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Yeah, Vote: cuzz.
If he is lying, it's just so likely he'll get caught. He could lie to out a power role, but there would be easier ways.
@Volt
Good call.
He was wondering about you and Geo, you more, could have missed others/missed if he changed his mind. Eevee, can you clarify who "he" is above?
So...Cuzz?
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Not claiming jailkeeper btw lol. Could be that Frisk was preparing the claim and that's why it took him so long, but.. it's just so convoluted, I'd think he'd fakeclaim something easier.
Like, it fails if there is a doctor somewhere, if there is a cop somewhere, or almost everytime if there is a jailkeeper somewhere. And he doesn't even out a power role because the claim is verifiable -> he is scum if he survives the night. Got to be the truth?
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Yeah, Vote: cuzz.
If he is lying, it's just so likely he'll get caught. He could lie to out a power role, but there would be easier ways.
@Volt
Good call.
He was wondering about you and Geo, you more, could have missed others/missed if he changed his mind. Eevee, can you clarify who "he" is above?
So...Cuzz?
Frisk. I explained it above.
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Yeah, Vote: cuzz.
If he is lying, it's just so likely he'll get caught. He could lie to out a power role, but there would be easier ways.
@Volt
Good call.
He was wondering about you and Geo, you more, could have missed others/missed if he changed his mind. Eevee, can you clarify who "he" is above?
So...Cuzz?
Never mind it was one of his first posts Day 2. Reading more. While I do that I do that, Eevee, you lead this.*
*Eevee if you are mafia we are so screwed
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Cuzz should claim asap.
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Not claiming jailkeeper btw lol. Could be that Frisk was preparing the claim and that's why it took him so long, but.. it's just so convoluted, I'd think he'd fakeclaim something easier.
Like, it fails if there is a doctor somewhere, if there is a cop somewhere, or almost everytime if there is a jailkeeper somewhere. And he doesn't even out a power role because the claim is verifiable -> he is scum if he survives the night. Got to be the truth?
Well, should I wait to vote until Cuzz posts, or is it time? (still reading Day 1 Frisk posts just in case)
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And if you can verify Frisk's claim, don't claim now! Unless I'm mistaken, that situation will solve itself tonight either way. Scum can't wifom us by letting him live, because the fact he claims to know either Geo or himself got jailkept is verifiable tomorrow.
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Not claiming jailkeeper btw lol. Could be that Frisk was preparing the claim and that's why it took him so long, but.. it's just so convoluted, I'd think he'd fakeclaim something easier.
Like, it fails if there is a doctor somewhere, if there is a cop somewhere, or almost everytime if there is a jailkeeper somewhere. And he doesn't even out a power role because the claim is verifiable -> he is scum if he survives the night. Got to be the truth?
Well, should I wait to vote until Cuzz posts, or is it time? (still reading Day 1 Frisk posts just in case)
Wait till 11:57 or so because why not?
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To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.
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Ugh, I really hope Frisk is telling the truth, just for the sake of my sanity. Idk if there's time to lynch anyone but me, which sucks. I'd probably go for Jorbles next, but my reads were really colored by thinking Frisk was scum, so I'd need to rethink everything.
What the hell, doesn't hurt to Vote: Jorbles.
I'm VT. I apologize for my miserable scumhunting, both on D1 against Robz, and today on Frisk (assuming he's not lying). You guys will be in a bit of a pickle if you do lynch me and if the NK doesn't get blocked tonight, but I wish you luck. I agree with Eevee that my posts lately looked a bit scummy (even I realized that as I was posting, but I assure you everything I said came from genuine scumhunting), so I apologize for forcing to lynch another townie.
Not sure what else to say.... Go town!
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To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.
So this didn't go very well then if Frisk is town, did it? As in, we'll just lose our cop and gain nothing?
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To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.
So this didn't go very well then if Frisk is town, did it? As in, we'll just lose our cop and gain nothing?
Scum wastes their nightkill on him and we have a chance to hit scum today, but yeah, forcing a cop to claim generally sucks for town.
And cuzz's claim looks genuine (would expect scum to claim a power role) but what can we do here? We have like 6 minutes and I think Frisk lynch is out of question.
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To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.
Unless there's a doctor, right? Anyway, his claim seems legit enough, as you mentioned it seems too involved for a fake claim. My vote's still on Cuzz at this point, and won't change unless we get the Geo wagon going again. 6 minutes to go...
And Cuzz has claimed VT. I'd say lets get back to <b>Vote: Geolib.</b>
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Geo and Jorbles accused each other once (at least one of them did) (this is all from my notes). Assuming you, CF, me, Cuzz are town that leaves pairs of Ashersky-J or Geo-A. Any of them make sense?
Do we lynch A?
Should we no-lynch right now?
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Ashersky or Cuzz or maaybe Jorb but i might be tunneling my town read on geo. I wish we had time to think what nolynch would mean.
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Geo and Jorbles accused each other once (at least one of them did) (this is all from my notes). Assuming you, CF, me, Cuzz are town that leaves pairs of Ashersky-J or Geo-A. Any of them make sense?
Do we lynch A?
Should we no-lynch right now?
Ok need to move quick, so Vote: ashersky.
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To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.
So this didn't go very well then if Frisk is town, did it? As in, we'll just lose our cop and gain nothing?
Scum wastes their nightkill on him and we have a chance to hit scum today, but yeah, forcing a cop to claim generally sucks for town.
And cuzz's claim looks genuine (would expect scum to claim a power role) but what can we do here? We have like 6 minutes and I think Frisk lynch is out of question.
I'm still a relative newb. I'm going to keep blindly trusting you (crunch time scares me). Should I vote for anyone?
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Geo and Jorbles accused each other once (at least one of them did) (this is all from my notes). Assuming you, CF, me, Cuzz are town that leaves pairs of Ashersky-J or Geo-A. Any of them make sense?
Do we lynch A?
Should we no-lynch right now?
Ok need to move quick, so Vote: ashersky.
Crap. Sorry if this is bad, but I'm doing it too.
Vote: ashersky
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To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.
So this didn't go very well then if Frisk is town, did it? As in, we'll just lose our cop and gain nothing?
Scum wastes their nightkill on him and we have a chance to hit scum today, but yeah, forcing a cop to claim generally sucks for town.
And cuzz's claim looks genuine (would expect scum to claim a power role) but what can we do here? We have like 6 minutes and I think Frisk lynch is out of question.
I'm still a relative newb. I'm going to keep blindly trusting you (crunch time scares me). Should I vote for anyone?
Do you feel cuzz could be scum?
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Geo and Jorbles accused each other once (at least one of them did) (this is all from my notes). Assuming you, CF, me, Cuzz are town that leaves pairs of Ashersky-J or Geo-A. Any of them make sense?
Do we lynch A?
Should we no-lynch right now?
Ok need to move quick, so Vote: ashersky.
Crap. Sorry if this is bad, but I'm doing it too.
Vote: ashersky
Unvote
Want to hear from Eevee.
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Geo and Jorbles accused each other once (at least one of them did) (this is all from my notes). Assuming you, CF, me, Cuzz are town that leaves pairs of Ashersky-J or Geo-A. Any of them make sense?
Do we lynch A?
Should we no-lynch right now?
Ok need to move quick, so Vote: ashersky.
I'd rather not claim, and you'd rather not lynch me, if you are town. I will if I have to, but it puts us in a tough spot. I think Geo is our best bet at this point, and most useful for D3. I'm sticking to that till deadline in 2 minutes.
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I honestly dont know what we should do, and would need more than 1.5minutes to think.
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I'm really not sure that a no lynch is much better than a mislynch at this point...
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To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.
So this didn't go very well then if Frisk is town, did it? As in, we'll just lose our cop and gain nothing?
Scum wastes their nightkill on him and we have a chance to hit scum today, but yeah, forcing a cop to claim generally sucks for town.
And cuzz's claim looks genuine (would expect scum to claim a power role) but what can we do here? We have like 6 minutes and I think Frisk lynch is out of question.
I'm still a relative newb. I'm going to keep blindly trusting you (crunch time scares me). Should I vote for anyone?
Do you feel cuzz could be scum?
Yes. But he claimed VT.
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vote:ashersky
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lynch him
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1 minute try to do it.
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Vote: ashersky
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im not 100% sure this is the right call but you asked me to make one so :) everyone vote for him im really certain its vetter than nolynch
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Sorry about this position, guys. It's pretty much on me that I didn't post earlier and trigger all this on Monday so we could think. It's really anti-town of town-me, and that's not so good at all. Fingers crossed.
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That's a lynch right? Geo was already on asher.
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Yes. Thank you Volt, all we can do now is hope. If you are scum, you played me oh so very well. :)
Floorball game so might miss the twilight entirely, will be back in 2-3 hours. Hope to see you all tomorrow!!
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Thread locked, either for lynch or for deadline. Double-checking votes now.
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Either way, this was an incredible end to the day, wowww... And ended with a hammer 40 seconds before the deadline too!
Ashersky, did we get it right?
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vote count moved down because SOME people don't understand the words "thread locked" :)
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I don't think it's a lynch. I'm double-checking now. I have Geolib's vote on Captain_Frisk.
Yeah, if the last vote-count was correct, it's not a lynch, as A ended with 3 (Cuzz, Eevee, me). Assuming last vote-count was correct.
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Is the thread locked, or is it twilight and comments are allowed?
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Vote Count 2-9
Captain_Frisk (1): Geolib
Cuzz (1): Captain_Frisk
Geolib (1): ashersky
ashersky (3): Cuzz, Eevee, Voltaire
Not voting (1): Jorbles
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
{Flavor courtesy of yuma!}
Tension was high for the World Dominion Championship contestants. All of them should have been on their way home at this point. Each imagined that they would have been the victory, the world champion and the best Dominion player Indianapolis had ever seen. But all for naught, because instead they were stuck here with 6 other players, and 3 dead corpses trying to solve a mystery. A mystery that became more and more confusing and more and more frustrating.
As the day drew to a close, everyone began spinning accusations, hurling insults and one player even started playing Dominion attack cards against those he perceived to be his enemies (he became so confused that he thought the attacks would actually work, but alas, no one was thieved, cursed or looted). Another player was drunk on the floor having drunk the last little bit of liquor he had smuggled in.
When the climax seemed eminent and when the group finally seemed close to coming to an agreement there was a knock at the door. A voice said, "We thought you all might like to see the new online Dominion prototype. It is now useable on iPads." And under the door, unseen hands slid in 7 iPads with the new online Dominion system on it. "Play with it for a while and let us know what you think."
Everyone quickly forgot about their accusations and the murder of the very man who created the game they so callously began playing. The murder of Donald X. must be solved another day. Because today ended in the saddest way possible. A no lynch.
The lynch deadline has been reached. NO LYNCH TODAY.
Night 2 has begun. Night actions are due in 48 hours, i.e., by Thursday, September 6, 12:30 p.m. EDT. If all night actions are received prior to the deadline, Day 3 may start early. Please send PMs to both me and yuma - thanks.
This thread is now LOCKED.
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Asher is better than me or noone but I prefer Cuzz or geo. I'm about to tee off - but I'll hammer if you need it.
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This thread is now LOCKED.
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Final votecount thread has been updated to include yuma's flavor.
Also: those who transgressed have been informed of their punishment. :)
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The contestants woke coughing, sputtering, and chocking. A horrible blue mist was in the air chocking their breath and making their eyes water. If that weren't worse enough from out of the deep blue mist came a shot! Bang! Everyone froze. They checked themselves. Were they still alive? They hoped not. Every player was nearly ready to take his own life rather than stay in this quagmire of a place. There were already 3 dead bodies in the room and as the smoke cleared they realized there was one more... GeoLib lay dead with a bullet in his head (man when I die, I hope nobody writes up my death with a rhyme, sorry GeoLib, it was unintentional). He was shot with his own gun. But not with his own bullet!
GeoLib was a zero-shot vigilante, also known as a Vanilla Townie. If only he hadn't spent his last bullet on a bull in Morocco he could have been more use to Dominion Championship contestants.
Day 3 Starts now!
Vote Count 3-1
Not Voting (6): Captain_Frisk, Eevee, ashersky, Voltaire, Cuzz, Jorbles
With 6 alive it take 4 to vote.
Day 3 will end Thursday, September 13 at noon forum time.
P.S. Transgressor's of yesterday's thread lock have been punished. Feel free to mock them, both here and in other threads. :)
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I've spent the last two days bemoaning the "No Lynch" that I caused. Man, that was obviously the wrong move now.
So, Frisk, you survived. That does not bode well for you. Today is going to be very interesting.
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One of two cases here.
a. Frisk's claim yesterday was a hail Mary at the deadline with a hammer looming, praying there was no real cop to counterclaim him. He'll have to come in today with a fake investigation.
b. Mafia WIFOMingly wants us to choose (a) and lynch Frisk. In this case Frisk has a real investigation for us.
I await to hear what he has to say.
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Oh, and we're in MyLo, people. Look sharp.
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And be wary of voting. 2 on a wagon is enough for mafia to quickhammer.
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Nobody vote!
Frisk, what did you do last night?
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I investigated mega lurker jorbles - who i didn't see post anything anywhere near deadline (although I was phone posting - and haven't reread yet).
I received a town response on him, so the jailkeeper must have picked someone else to protect or suspect.
i'm also being punished for my post lock posting - I think I did it right.
+1 to eevee - nobody vote - no lynch is almost certainly the correct play here - more time for investigation, more chances for jailkeeping success.
Longer post to follow - as I am on baby duty and he is screaming
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+1 to eevee - nobody vote - no lynch is almost certainly the correct play here - more time for investigation, more chances for jailkeeping success.
Um hmm no. FoS Captain_Frisk, if it weren't MyLo right now it'd be a vote.
Should be able to piece together his partner sometime today (I think). More will follow, like always.
Though I will run the scenario where Frisk is telling the truth, just in case.
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Btw Frisk, wtf at claiming that late yesterday? Volt, I don't blame you one bit for the nolynch, it was entirely Frisk's fault. Bad luck obviously that Frisk only had phone access, but still..
Oh and today, lets try to be more productive before D-2 hours, shall we? Yesterday was a prime example of why quiet towns lose!
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The most important thing while we wait is to get Jorbles to talk.
Other power role(s), if you're out there, stay quiet for now about who you are (I think).
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I investigated mega lurker jorbles - who i didn't see post anything anywhere near deadline (although I was phone posting - and haven't reread yet).
I received a town response on him, so the jailkeeper must have picked someone else to protect or suspect.
i'm also being punished for my post lock posting - I think I did it right.
+1 to eevee - nobody vote - no lynch is almost certainly the correct play here - more time for investigation, more chances for jailkeeping success.
Longer post to follow - as I am on baby duty and he is screaming
Why are you assuming there even is a Jailkeeper in this game? Only the Jailkeeper himself, the Mafia rolecop, or his partner would be able to know that.
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I investigated mega lurker jorbles - who i didn't see post anything anywhere near deadline (although I was phone posting - and haven't reread yet).
I received a town response on him, so the jailkeeper must have picked someone else to protect or suspect.
i'm also being punished for my post lock posting - I think I did it right.
+1 to eevee - nobody vote - no lynch is almost certainly the correct play here - more time for investigation, more chances for jailkeeping success.
Longer post to follow - as I am on baby duty and he is screaming
Why are you assuming there even is a Jailkeeper in this game? Only the Jailkeeper himself, the Mafia rolecop, or his partner would be able to know that.
Frisk claims his investigation on GeoLib Night 1 returned "no result". Only way possible with this setup is if Geo (or Frisk) were jailkept.
And then Geo died last night.
It's a miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighty convenient story.
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+1 to eevee - nobody vote - no lynch is almost certainly the correct play here - more time for investigation, more chances for jailkeeping success.
Um hmm no. FoS Captain_Frisk, if it weren't MyLo right now it'd be a vote.
Should be able to piece together his partner sometime today (I think). More will follow, like always.
Though I will run the scenario where Frisk is telling the truth, just in case.
No lynch at 6 is pretty much standard. All 4 townies will need to agree today. If we no lynch - we'll only need 3 to agree - and even if you don't believe me (which I understand) - the jailkeeper gets an extra chance at identifying the killer. This debate has been had before. We definitely want to talk, but you'd really have to convince me before I start throwing around a vote that could result in us losing the game overnight.
OMGUS FoS: Volt
As for the jailkeeper - I don't think he should claim - because his secrecy is probably more valueable than my life - but he knows I'm correct about Day 1, and he knows that he didn't jailkeep myself or Jorbles last night. I agree that it doesn't clear me - really only investigating scum and hitting will do that - and most people won't believe me even if I did.
I think that Geo might have been the kill to
a. make me look like an anus
b. assumed that I might investigate him again, so even if I did get a result because the JK left me alone - then it provides no information.
As for last minute claiming etc... I'm on vacation folks. My schedule is not really up to me. I really didn't want to claim because it confirms the presence of a JK, and potentially outs 2 power roles. I thought that the case was weak enough that someone might see through it.
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Also note that my claim (if false) is directly counterable by either a cop or a doctor. A cop would know that I couldn't possibly be one, and a doctor would know that there can't be 3 power roles.
The jailkeeper knows I'm telling the truth about his existence and night targets - and he should stay silent. Rolefishing is bad right?
The boy is going down for a nap - so I'm going to go back and read all the stuff that I skimmed from phone - especially the end of day.
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I'm inclined to believe Frisk here. A Jailkeeper could easily out him if he was lying, and there's no way he could know that there isn't one in this game. There's a 50-50 chance that there is one, so it'd be a huge risk to lie about this. Someone please correct me if my logic is mistaken here.
That would then mean that me, Frisk, and Jorbles are all town, and thus two of ashersky, Eevee, and Voltaire are scum. Those seem like good odds to me, so I'm not sure I agree with a no lynch. Of course, from Frisk's perspective, I'm not confirmed town, so to him the odds are 50-50 of hitting scum.
Now, Eevee and Voltaire were both ready to lynch ashersky yesterday (and in fact thought we had until the recount), so it makes little sense for either of them to be his scumpartner.
My deduction leads then to:
a. Voltaire and Eevee are both scum.
b. One of Volt and Eevee are scum, and were willing to bus scumpartner ashersky.
b. Frisk is making a massively crazy scum play here, in which case the above analysis is invalid.
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b. Frisk is making a massively crazy scum play here, in which case the above analysis is invalid.
Which he's done before, FYI (just read whichever game that was yesterday, the one with multiple scumteams and he was the last one).
Anyway, I'm backing through the thread right now.
One possible way Frisk knows it's safe to claim Cop is if the rolecop (either him or his partner) has confirmed the other power roles, or lack thereof. I don't think that's possible, though, we've only had two nights and we know everyone who died was vanilla.
Perhaps I shouldn't be as strong on Frisk as I am, but let's remember the massive WIFOM mafia play it takes to have let him live last night. That is required if he is town.
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Edit to the above: as Frisk pointed out, any town PR could out him as a liar right now. A cop could counterclaim, the jailkeeper could debunk his N1 Geolib claim, and a doctor knows there can't be 3 PR's.
I'd therefore be willing to vote to lynch Eevee or Voltaire based on my analysis above. Of course I realize anyone else doesn't have the exact same train of thought since they don't know I'm town.
If anyone still doubts I'm town, though, reread my claim at the end of D1. It's not proof obviously, but maybe you'll agree that it helps my case.
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As I re-read the thread and keep up on new posts at the same time, I'd just like to remind everyone that I'm Morgrim('s role). Really, that's the strongest defense I can think of.
But suspicion is understandable. I know I badly misplayed the end of Day 2.
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Now, Eevee and Voltaire were both ready to lynch ashersky yesterday (and in fact thought we had until the recount)
Just FYI this is not true for me. In fact, the entire reason I have this lovely little scarlet letter under my avatar is because I posted to note that it wasn't a lynch.
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Hey guy, first off I want to say that I'm really sorry for not being around for deadline on Tuesday. I don't know if I would have changed anything as I was not willing to lynch ashersky at the time, but maybe we could have lynched someone else. I got the timezone difference mixed up and showed up after the thread had already been locked. Clearly, my reads are terrible though, first Robz and now Geolib. The GeoLib nightkill makes me look scummy for pushing his lynch, but ashersky was on that too, and now I don't trust my read on him making newb mistakes the way I did before.
Frisk claimed cop and then wasn't killed last night. He says there is a jailkeeper in the game who will believe him and maybe the presence of one made mafia get into a WIFOM battle with the keeper and hoped to off the keeper before killing the cop. I don't want to help mafia, but if I'm thinking it then they probably are too. If Frisk is cop than we have a JK/Cop set up, if he's lying than we must have a JK and Frisk knows because he or his scumbuddy got no result earlier or he guessed and got incredibly lucky. However, then he wouldn't be claiming that I'm town to build trust because wouldn't it be smarter scum play to go aggressive at this point and claim to have found scum on a townie?
As for no lynch, I have no idea what the smart play for that is. I think I'll go read mafiascum for some outside insight into this.
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However, then he wouldn't be claiming that I'm town to build trust because wouldn't it be smarter scum play to go aggressive at this point and claim to have found scum on a townie?
Y'know, you might be right. If he does, then we mislynch and scum wins.
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Also for mafiascum's page on no lynch here is the link (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=No_Lynch).
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Super busy I will read everything and make a post in a few hours. Good to see everyone (?) talking already.
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So I went over this and I think I have to believe Frisk. It's too crazy for him to say I'm town if he's scum. I guess there's a slight motivation in that he might be able to get an easy mislynch tomorrow now that I trust him, but it just seems really out there. If we have as many PRs for this amount of people as we think we do a no lynch might actually be useful, there's a really high chance of a mislynch right now, scum just have to refuse to vote if a wagon forms on one of them and wait for a wagon to form on someone else. Putting anyone to L-2 can give them a chance to quickhammer. Even if the Jailkeeper misses the killer and we lose Frisk we're not really in a worse case than we are now.
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Okay, found a little bit of time already.
First of all Frisk, full reasoning for targeting Geo and Jorbles?
Then, let me propose a hypothesis. I didn't come to think of this yesterday, because you left us with ridiculously little time, which I still think is very scummy because you posted several times and the real cop would a) have a huge incentive to stay alive and b) not want to put town into the spot you put us (scum on the other hand obviously wants to delay fakeclaiming as long as possible).
I don't think you are lying about knowing there is a jailkeeper, because it's very convoluted and also easily verified to be false. That's why my first instinct was you have to be telling the truth. However, because of the rolecop there is another way you could have that information:
You are a mafia rolecop. Night 1, you try to investigate Geo but don't get a result. This is how you know there must be jailkeeper in the game. You claim cop thinking it's 33% we have no other power roles and you get infinite town cred and cruise to victory and 66% there is another power role who is now forced to counterclaim (+ you might even get the jailkeeper too if he gets excited and rushes to "verify your claim", props for the jailkeeper for not doing this btw!). So even in the worst case you out a power role, which is a super boom since your death looked inevitable without a good claim anyways.
Is there any reason why this couldn't be happening? I know it's a little far-fetched, but so is you claiming cop and surviving the night as a townie..
What would have you done yesterday if you were scum?
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Yeah. That bears more thinking about.
Still re-reading day 1 and Frisk is just so scummy. (Though all of his Day 3/end of Day 2 is coloring my opinion I am sure). So scummy. So scummy.
And he lived through the night. I still can't see past this.
Also, if he's scum he clears Jorbles, the lurker, knowing this likely won't be that helpful to the town.
I know I keep saying "more later," but I'm at work right now, this is tricky.
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Frisk, have you been "pulling a robz"* in this game?
*intentionally playing scummy as a power role to avoid getting nightkilled.
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Frisk, have you been "pulling a robz"* in this game?
*intentionally playing scummy as a power role to avoid getting nightkilled.
He's clearly been acti-lurking. He's posted at key moments all through days one and two - right after Morgrim's VT claim, right after Morgrim put Eevee at L-2, etc.
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Btw, if Frisk was scum would he ever claim he investigated his scumbuddy? Is Jorbles obvtown now regardless of Frisk's role?
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Btw, if Frisk was scum would he ever claim he investigated his scumbuddy? Is Jorbles obvtown now regardless of Frisk's role?
I've been treating it that way as I re-read, but we can't ignore the possibility that Frisk is going all-out crazy scum mad (and clearing his buddy).
As I re-read I'm considering pairings of Frisk/Ash, Frisk/Eevee (nothing personal Eevee, I really just want to consider all odds), and, if Frisk is telling the truth, some combination of Cuzz, Ashersky, and Eevee (which is unlikely to me). If it's 2 of the final 3, I'd lean to voting ashersky for playing scummy as scum and getting away with the n00b excuse.
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Sigh. Add Frisk/Cuzz to that list as "possible."
If Frisk is scum, he either cleared his partner (Jorbles), Eevee is also scum, or both scum were on the wagon for Robz. That last one I view as most likely (ash's obvscum play, Frisk settling in nicely as the 3rd vote on Robz).
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Frisk: I see absolutely nothing on Day 1 that would imply you would investigate Geo if you really were the cop. I second the call for your reasonings on your investigations.
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Eevee is 100% right - regarding me being rolecop as plausible. Me as rolecop and us having only 1 PR is just as likely as us having a Jailkeeper and a cop. Of course - this assumes that I'd be willing to claim something I could be counter claimed on.
Longer explanation of my investigations:
Attempting to cop Geo - wasn't a very strong read.
Post #99 sounded like something I would do as scum.
Reading about the set-up on Mafiascum. Mod clarification question. Can the Rolecop NK and investigate on the same night?
Hedging:
I am totally onboard the policy lynch for super anti-town behavior, but I think we should at least wait for O to get here. I would be a little annoyed if D1 lynch was decided before I'd even realized the game had started...
But yeah, roleclaiming, self-voting, threatening to self-hammer, posting only complaints about how one is VT...
I say unless we get a strong scum read on someone else, then we lynch Morgrim. He's just as likely to be scum as anyone else in the D1 crapshoot, and is playing anti-town regardless.
I'm holding off casting my vote until O gets here though.
Paroting me:
So I basically agree with everything Frisk just said. That's all for now
Possible overeager town?
Well shit. Looks like Ashersky took matters into his own hands. Robz, last words quick
Nothing outrageous - nothing compared to his day 2 pushing of the asher case, but as I pointed out yesterday (game yesterday) - we didn't really have alot to go on - given that RobZ really only suspected Mogrim.
Night 2 - Honestly I didn't put a super amount of thought.
1 - I'm on vacation and my wife gives me a sign and a look every time she catches me refreshing the phone - and rereading the thread and putting together alot of thought takes a decent amount of time (she's napping now!)
2 - I kindof expected to die. My only hope was going to be that because you guys don't trust me - that scum would leave me alive because I can never be cleared. As someone pointed out, even if I caught scum - the rest of town might not believe me because the right thing to do today is nolynch. I can only assume that they thought the jailkeeper was more dangerous - because he can still actually prevent a loss even if we mislynch today.
3 - I thought about confirming on Geo, but Jorble's epic lurk just seemed so scummy. I mean - I probably would have hammered me if I was in a town's shoes - and I thought that hanging back might be the scum play to set me up for a lynch today.
What would I have done as scum? Probably something similar to what's happening here.
I'd go in with the gameplan of trying to lynch experienced players. (RobZ - check!) As random scum, I would have killed O or myself. I probably would have preferred me, because of O's heavy push on RobZ, but O would have been my pick hands down if I was scum. Then, Day 2 I would have subtly tried to push for the remaining experienced players, which in this case would be eevee.
I think that as roleblocker scum per your theory - I would have claimed jailkeeper yesterday. I feel that protective roles are more powerful later in the game (you can't argue with the results like you can with someone who claims a scum investigation result) So I would have preferred to either survive or actually out the jailkeeper.
Last night (given the no lynch result), my #1 pick probably would have been Volt, since I learned my lesson in M4 and 6 about leaving confirmed townies around (SFS / Tables in M4). It would probably depend on my jailkeeper read. If I thought that Asher was jailkeeper, I'd probably go for it. If I thought that a more experienced player was the jailkeeper, then I probably would have mixed it up and gone for someone else, but I'm not sure who. Probably you eevee, but thats just a gut feel.
@volt - what about me seems so scummy? Unwillingness to vote for Asher? Scumread on Geo? Phone posting while on vacation? It's true that I didn't say much on Day 1, but I'm not really sure what else you really wanted me to do. Give me some quotes to respond to!
Was your desire to lynch today because you weren't aware that nolynching @ 6 is the (generally) correct play?
@eevee - lets turn it around. As cop - how would you have played? Would you have claimed @ L-1 immediately even though the potential hammerers hadn't weighed in yet? No lynch and potential cop investigations is still better than lynching the cop.
Mafia is totally smiling that you guys are continuing to still press me. Leaving me alive was a good move after all.
Where is Asher?
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Frisk: I see absolutely nothing on Day 1 that would imply you would investigate Geo if you really were the cop. I second the call for your reasonings on your investigations.
I didn't breadcrumb anything. If you go read murder mystery mafia - I didn't breadcrumb my (successful) tracks on ftl and Galzria either. I don't think I did in Role Madness either - where I was a tracker/cop (my choice! best role ever eHalc!)
Most of my night time actions decisions are made after night fall, not based on how I was feeling during the day.
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Time for some POE, guys & gals.
Remaining possible pairs (this is from my position, so adjust accordingly if you think necessary):
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
(don't think I'm missing anyone)
1. Now, I've crossed out some pairs because they've had big spats and/or voted each other early on Day 2. This is an assumption that mafia wouldn't publicaly go for each other's throats. Weigh the following based on that assumption.
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
1A. Assume Frisk is telling the truth.
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
1B. Assume Frisk is lying, and scum.
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
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That post was not complete. I meant to hit "preview" instead. I was hoping to scumhunt Frisk some more, but it's too late. Upshot:
Frisk, if you are town, you should be ok with lynching Cuzz. If you are not, you are scum, and we should be ok lynching you.
I do not know the strategy behind "No Lynch" other than it is almost always bad town play. I do not know the exceptions to this. If someone would like to explain Frisk's claim that it's good with 6 (2 scum), feel free. I read the wiki and it didn't seem to help.
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That post was not complete. I meant to hit "preview" instead. I was hoping to scumhunt Frisk some more, but it's too late. Upshot:
Frisk, if you are town, you should be ok with lynching Cuzz. If you are not, you are scum, and we should be ok lynching you.
I do not know the strategy behind "No Lynch" other than it is almost always bad town play. I do not know the exceptions to this. If someone would like to explain Frisk's claim that it's good with 6 (2 scum), feel free. I read the wiki and it didn't seem to help.
Ok - here's the deal with 6 (no powers version)
4 townies
2 scum
In order to win - all 4 townies need to co-operate on scum. If you mislynch - you lose - because scum kill one of the other townies and its 2 v 2 - game over.
A random lynch has a 1/3 chance to hit scum. Each individual townie has a 40% chance of a scum read being correct.
With 5:
3 townies
2 scum
A random lynch has a 2/5 (chance to hit scum). Each individual townie has a 50% chance of a scum read being correct.
1/3 < 2/5 ; 40% < 50%
In either case - a mislynch loses the game.
The jailkeeper makes it a little stranger, because it is now actually possible to mislynch and still not lose - so makes it less clear cut. I'm not 100% sure here
Having a cop definitely favors the extra night.
As for Cuzz - I absolutely will not be bullied into anything. Even though you're my strongest townread, how do I know that you're not scum trying to force me into a townie lynch? I'll review after some errands.
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@ Frisk - I see your reply. Want to post this first, then will respond.
This is the fixed/complete version of my earlier post.
Remaining possible pairs (this is from my position, so adjust accordingly if you think necessary):
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
(don't think I'm missing anyone)
1. Now, I've crossed out some pairs because they've had big spats and/or voted each other early on Day 2. This is an assumption that mafia wouldn't publicly go for each other's throats. Weigh the following based on that assumption.
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
1A. Assume Frisk is telling the truth.
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
1B. Assume Frisk is lying, and scum.
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
I want to hear from the rest of you. Especially Cuzz.
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As for Cuzz - I absolutely will not be bullied into anything. Even though you're my strongest townread, how do I know that you're not scum trying to force me into a townie lynch? I'll review after some errands.
Oh, you shouldn't be bullied into anything. But if you're town (which I'm back to not believing), you'll have to trust someone, at some point.
Everyone else, chime in, don't vote, take your time. I'll have a summary of the case against Frisk up later (as in, likely not today).
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1. Now, I've crossed out some pairs because they've had big spats and/or voted each other early on Day 2. This is an assumption that mafia wouldn't publicaly go for each other's throats. Weigh the following based on that assumption.
This assumption that mafia wouldn't go for each other strongly. I'm not sure it's a safe assumption to be making. What if they bussed each other so they'd be considered unlikely to be on the same team in case one of them gets caught?
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1. Now, I've crossed out some pairs because they've had big spats and/or voted each other early on Day 2. This is an assumption that mafia wouldn't publicaly go for each other's throats. Weigh the following based on that assumption.
This assumption that mafia wouldn't go for each other strongly. I'm not sure it's a safe assumption to be making. What if they bussed each other so they'd be considered unlikely to be on the same team in case one of them gets caught?
As you'll note, this only eliminates two pairs - Cuzz/Frisk and Ash/Eevee. Think about the interaction between the two - I think this is a safe assumption. Unless you're a PR with additional info, you've got to make an assumption at some point. Unless you're mafia, of course.
*all "you's" above are general "you's"
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You are missing 2 pairs. Ash eevee and ash jorbles I think?
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Sorry all, had to work today and was out all day. Sorry to see I was wrong on Geo.
My most important question is, if someone could out Frisk as lying, should they immediately? It seems the way that happens is (and correct me if I am misunderstanding):
--there is a jail keeper and he can confirm NOT keeping Geo on N1
--there is a doctor, so there cannot be both a cop and a jk
--someone else is the cop
Are those the only ways?
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You are missing 2 pairs. Ash eevee and ash jorbles I think?
I have ash/eevee. I did not have ash/jorbles. I was also missing jorbles/eevee.
The correct list:
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
Ash/Jorbles
Jorbles/Eevee
EVERYONE, I AM GOING TO STOP POSTING UNTIL I CAN SORT THIS OUT/CLEAR MY HEAD/WRITE A BETTER, MORE CONCISE POST.
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Sorry all, had to work today and was out all day. Sorry to see I was wrong on Geo.
My most important question is, if someone could out Frisk as lying, should they immediately? It seems the way that happens is (and correct me if I am misunderstanding):
--there is a jail keeper and he can confirm NOT keeping Geo on N1
--there is a doctor, so there cannot be both a cop and a jk
--someone else is the cop
Are those the only ways?
If the jail keeper kept me - then I would receive the same result as if they had kept geo.
As for coming out - it isn't possible for Anyone to refute me - so I will know that anyone who does so is scum. In a hypothetical I am scum world - I have no idea what the correct play is. I think that we've only had one counter claim in completed games - mafia 2.
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Sorry all, had to work today and was out all day. Sorry to see I was wrong on Geo.
My most important question is, if someone could out Frisk as lying, should they immediately? It seems the way that happens is (and correct me if I am misunderstanding):
--there is a jail keeper and he can confirm NOT keeping Geo on N1
--there is a doctor, so there cannot be both a cop and a jk
--someone else is the cop
Are those the only ways?
If the jail keeper kept me - then I would receive the same result as if they had kept geo.
As for coming out - it isn't possible for Anyone to refute me - so I will know that anyone who does so is scum. In a hypothetical I am scum world - I have no idea what the correct play is. I think that we've only had one counter claim in completed games - mafia 2.
I'm just trying to find as many ways to clear you as much as catch you. Basically, if you are the Cop, there must be either a doc or jk still around, right? Since you claim a non-result on your N1 investigation, you posit there MUST be a jk and not a doctor, right?
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Sorry all, had to work today and was out all day. Sorry to see I was wrong on Geo.
My most important question is, if someone could out Frisk as lying, should they immediately? It seems the way that happens is (and correct me if I am misunderstanding):
--there is a jail keeper and he can confirm NOT keeping Geo on N1
--there is a doctor, so there cannot be both a cop and a jk
--someone else is the cop
Are those the only ways?
If the jail keeper kept me - then I would receive the same result as if they had kept geo.
As for coming out - it isn't possible for Anyone to refute me - so I will know that anyone who does so is scum. In a hypothetical I am scum world - I have no idea what the correct play is. I think that we've only had one counter claim in completed games - mafia 2.
I'm just trying to find as many ways to clear you as much as catch you. Basically, if you are the Cop, there must be either a doc or jk still around, right? Since you claim a non-result on your N1 investigation, you posit there MUST be a jk and not a doctor, right?
Correct. There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.
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Correct. There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.
Not sure I agree there. JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1. Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1. Not terrible odds, right?
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Correct. There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.
Not sure I agree there. JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1. Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1. Not terrible odds, right?
Yeah, I'm actually thinking along these lines. And based on who the JK is, I think I can figure out his scum partner.*
*in this scenario
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Correct. There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.
Not sure I agree there. JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1. Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1. Not terrible odds, right?
Yeah, I'm actually thinking along these lines. And based on who the JK is, I think I can figure out his scum partner.*
*in this scenario
The real cop could come forward and put us in the same position, right? This is assuming a Frisk lie.
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Correct. There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.
Not sure I agree there. JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1. Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1. Not terrible odds, right?
Yeah, I'm actually thinking along these lines. And based on who the JK is, I think I can figure out his scum partner.*
*in this scenario
But that'd just be being greedy, anyway. We can only lynch one scum per night, anyway. ;)
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Correct. There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.
Not sure I agree there. JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1. Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1. Not terrible odds, right?
Yeah, I'm actually thinking along these lines. And based on who the JK is, I think I can figure out his scum partner.*
*in this scenario
The real cop could come forward and put us in the same position, right? This is assuming a Frisk lie.
Yup. Which, given the chaos of the end of D2, would explain why they waited until D3. That cop would also have real results to give.
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I think anyone who can prove Frisk is lying should come forward. But the jailkeeper we have lurking somewhere should stay low, because confirming that part of his story does us no good because if he is lying, he is a rolecop.
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Correct. There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.
Not sure I agree there. JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1. Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1. Not terrible odds, right?
In order for jk to "out me" - I'd have to be lieing - which you just seem to assume with no case except this one you are "working on". If morgrim had no meta - I would lunch you so hard!
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I can confirm Frisk is lying, at the risk of being NKed. Still, you'll have one PR left so I think town is best served knowing.
I am the Doctor. I protected Geo on N1 and Frisk (unfortunately) on N2. I didn't think through the possible lie scenarios or the three power role problem, and also contemplated that he was protecting Geo by saying no result. I did want to believe Frisk, after all.
Vote: Frisk
The other PR could be cop or JK, so you get more info tonight even as Mafia lynch me.
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NOBODY VOTE!
I believe you ashersky, but still. We need to talk things through first.
Frisk, why would ashersky be lying here? Seems very out of the blue to me.
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NOBODY VOTE!
I believe you ashersky, but still. We need to talk things through first.
Frisk, why would ashersky be lying here? Seems very out of the blue to me.
Also, whomever does and doesn't vote will be indicative in this.
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NOBODY VOTE!
I believe you ashersky, but still. We need to talk things through first.
Frisk, why would ashersky be lying here? Seems very out of the blue to me.
He must be scum - and he's doing it because lynching me wins the game. Why wait until after night to claim?
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NOBODY VOTE!
I believe you ashersky, but still. We need to talk things through first.
Frisk, why would ashersky be lying here? Seems very out of the blue to me.
He must be scum - and he's doing it because lynching me wins the game. Why wait until after night to claim?
Honestly, I think my protecting you of all folks last night shows just how newb I really am. I didn't occur to me that your Geo "no result" could be anything more than either you protecting Geo or maybe my doctoring keeping you from finding out? You could have mafia rolecopped him and gotten no result from my doctoring, but I think it only works on kills, so who knows? Still, your story makes no sense post Night. I clearly couldn't post after the thread closed so soon after your claim and the deadline came (the punishment quote under my avatar notwithstanding).
You confirmed to me you were lying when you were so sure there was a JK in this game. There probably is, and you know who it is, from rolecopping, not from copping.
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To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.
Unless there's a doctor, right? Anyway, his claim seems legit enough, as you mentioned it seems too involved for a fake claim. My vote's still on Cuzz at this point, and won't change unless we get the Geo wagon going again. 6 minutes to go...
And Cuzz has claimed VT. I'd say lets get back to <b>Vote: Geolib.</b>
See above.
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Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?
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To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.
Unless there's a doctor, right? Anyway, his claim seems legit enough, as you mentioned it seems too involved for a fake claim. My vote's still on Cuzz at this point, and won't change unless we get the Geo wagon going again. 6 minutes to go...
And Cuzz has claimed VT. I'd say lets get back to <b>Vote: Geolib.</b>
See above.
To be fair that could also be read as a soft claim? IDK things were super hectic last night. It's conceivable ashersky just didn't have time to weigh the pros and cons of claiming.
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Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?
I know you know this, but every post of yours that seems to help Frisk will suck when he flips Mafia.
To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.
Unless there's a doctor, right? Anyway, his claim seems legit enough, as you mentioned it seems too involved for a fake claim. My vote's still on Cuzz at this point, and won't change unless we get the Geo wagon going again. 6 minutes to go...
And Cuzz has claimed VT. I'd say lets get back to <b>Vote: Geolib.</b>
See above.
To be fair that could also be read as a soft claim? IDK things were super hectic last night. It's conceivable ashersky just didn't have time to weigh the pros and cons of claiming.
That was indeed a hint. I didn't know if claiming was a good thing and erred on not then, since, well, I didn't know what to do. I thought protecting myself, and then protecting the Cop was the best bet. Now you all, especially Frisk, has convinced me that Frisk isn't the cop, so I'm out.
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If he was tellig the truth - then he would know I was lying - and my claim can't be legit.
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Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?
I know you know this, but every post of yours that seems to help Frisk will suck when he flips Mafia.
What does this even mean? What Eevee said makes sense, what ashersky said I do not understand.
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If he was tellig the truth - then he would know I was lying - and my claim can't be legit.
I honestly thought there could be a Cop and Doctor. You and me. You said today there could not. That there had to be a JK. So I know you are lying about yourself, anyway. Man, there still could be a cop out there. (Don't out yourself now, though. Or maybe so? We lynch Frisk, NK me or cop, the lynch mafia and win.)
Put it this way, you said you checked out Geo on D1, got no result. Then you were willing to help me lynch him when we had a wagon going yesterday. Now he's dead. I don't know, it's all fishy now, and the end of D2 was just too crazy.
Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?
I know you know this, but every post of yours that seems to help Frisk will suck when he flips Mafia.
What does this even mean? What Eevee said makes sense, what ashersky said I do not understand.
It means that when/if we lynch Frisk, and he flips Mafia, all of Eevee's efforts to protect Frisk will be awfully suspicious.
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If he was tellig the truth - then he would know I was lying - and my claim can't be legit.
I honestly thought there could be a Cop and Doctor. You and me. You said today there could not. That there had to be a JK. So I know you are lying about yourself, anyway. Man, there still could be a cop out there. (Don't out yourself now, though. Or maybe so? We lynch Frisk, NK me or cop, the lynch mafia and win.)
I was willi to give you a noob pass on day 2- but you can't expect these people to relieve that you didn't understand the game setup. It clearly states that there are at most 2 power roles. In my claim I confirmed he existence of both a jail keeper and a cop.
You yourself said my claim seems legit - probably because you didn't want to be seen wagonning a cop flip
Now that you can win - you are bringing in he fake claim hat you semi breadcrumbed - using a noob confusion argument
Don't fall for it folks.
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I was willi to give you a noob pass on day 2- but you can't expect these people to relieve that you didn't understand the game setup. It clearly states that there are at most 2 power roles. In my claim I confirmed he existence of both a jail keeper and a cop.
You yourself said my claim seems legit - probably because you didn't want to be seen wagonning a cop flip
Now that you can win - you are bringing in he fake claim hat you semi breadcrumbed - using a noob confusion argument
Don't fall for it folks.
There can be 2 power roles, Cop and Doctor. Honestly, my thought process was: I had a night action on Geo, you claimed a night action didn't work on Geo, wasn't thinking in the heat of the moment. Then the day ended.
At this point, I suppose it's up to the rest to decide who's lying. A mislynch sets up a pretty dire situation for town. Look at our posts on D3. Who's not saying much of anything? You'll need more than "ash is scummy" to win this one, I think.
I am the Town Doctor. Lynch Mafia today and we basically force them to NK me, leaving the rest of you to pick off the partner. WIFOM lets me protect someone and they risk not killing anyone if they go for anyone but me.
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Frisk, do you assume ashersky thought of the (supposed) fake claim on the fly or that the scum team planned him doing it last night?
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Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?
Okay so if Frisk is mafia then he could have known that there was a jailkeeper if he is the mafia rolecop and got no result on a GeoLib investigation, but if that had happened than why would he NK GeoLib? If he knew there was a JK out there he would have killed anyone but GeoLib in hopes of hitting the JK. It's possible he thought GeoLib was the jailkeeper, but isn't there a higher chance he would have thought that anyone else was the jailkeeper? The chances of GeoLib as JK picking Frisk on night one are 1/7 (Robz was dead and he wouldn't JK himself) or 14%. The chances of anyone else picking GeoLib or Frisk would be 2/7 or 29%. If he's scum and he chose to NK GeoLib than he chose the person with the lowest chance of being the Jailkeeper. I think we've seen from his posts that Frisk is inclined to think of the numbers when he's making decisions it seems unlikely that he would choose to NK GeoLib if he knew a Jailkeeper was in the game.
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To confirm: my Doctor protection of Geo should not have resulted in a "no result" on Frisk's Cop investigation, right? Just want to be sure that we aren't both truly PRs arguing at each other...
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To confirm: my Doctor protection of Geo should not have resulted in a "no result" on Frisk's Cop investigation, right? Just want to be sure that we aren't both truly PRs arguing at each other...
No. Only jailkeeping gives no results in this setup.
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Frisk, do you assume ashersky thought of the (supposed) fake claim on the fly or that the scum team planned him doing it last night?
I have no idea. I would assume premeditated - but his scum buddy must be face palming right now. Maybe he thought to strike while the iron was hot before the wagons cooled off - like the geolib and Asher wagons did yesterday?
Personally - I would have slow played it in his position, because I think a town win is almost guaranteed in this situation now.
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Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?
Okay so if Frisk is mafia then he could have known that there was a jailkeeper if he is the mafia rolecop and got no result on a GeoLib investigation, but if that had happened than why would he NK GeoLib? If he knew there was a JK out there he would have killed anyone but GeoLib in hopes of hitting the JK. It's possible he thought GeoLib was the jailkeeper, but isn't there a higher chance he would have thought that anyone else was the jailkeeper? The chances of GeoLib as JK picking Frisk on night one are 1/7 (Robz was dead and he wouldn't JK himself) or 14%. The chances of anyone else picking GeoLib or Frisk would be 2/7 or 29%. If he's scum and he chose to NK GeoLib than he chose the person with the lowest chance of being the Jailkeeper. I think we've seen from his posts that Frisk is inclined to think of the numbers when he's making decisions it seems unlikely that he would choose to NK GeoLib if he knew a Jailkeeper was in the game.
This is my main problem with ashersky's side. OOTH, Frisk has been hella scummy and there is one more thing I'm getting at with my last question to Frisk. This is really hard.
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I have no idea. I would assume premeditated - but his scum buddy must be face palming right now. Maybe he thought to strike while the iron was hot before the wagons cooled off - like the geolib and Asher wagons did yesterday?
Personally - I would have slow played it in his position, because I think a town win is almost guaranteed in this situation now.
This would be pretty terrible mafia play, right? Like, lose the game for mafia right?
So Occam's Razor here. What's the most likely thing? That I'm mafia going crazy, or town telling the truth?
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Frisk, do you assume ashersky thought of the (supposed) fake claim on the fly or that the scum team planned him doing it last night?
I have no idea. I would assume premeditated - but his scum buddy must be face palming right now. Maybe he thought to strike while the iron was hot before the wagons cooled off - like the geolib and Asher wagons did yesterday?
Personally - I would have slow played it in his position, because I think a town win is almost guaranteed in this situation now.
Almost guaranteed even if we pick the wrong guy today?
My main problem with the "ashersky is fake claiming" theory is that.. it MUST have been planned. No new player ever just pulls something like that our of his ass like this. And obviously scum has to have discussed fakeclaiming last night. So, they discussed and decided ashersky is going to claim doctor. How the hell would ashersky's scum partner allow him to be so confused about the setup? Surely they would have talked it over..
So yeah, Frisk's team making a stupid mistake by killing Geo (or maybe they had some unknown reasons) just seems more likely than ashersky's partner failing to notice ash doesn't know the game setup. And also once again Frisk, why didn't ashersky's team kill you last night if you really are the cop?
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I don't know. I expected to die. This play that he's doing wouldn't work on anyone else? Noob mistake?
Maybe it backs up the "Asher is a noob" theory that I championed to save his ass yesterday? If you guys lynch me, I'm going to be really pissed, since we could have had him yesterday.
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So Occam's Razor here. What's the most likely thing? That I'm mafia going crazy, or town telling the truth?
This argument is so compelling that I can find no flaws in it. [Vote: Frisk]
Though I'm still confused as to why he fingered me as town. I guess to build cred with me.
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Idea: both ashersky and Frisk get really really drunk and go at it ehunt-style, no one intervenes until we figure out which of them is lying. Possible problem: Mrs Frisk might not appreciate the plan.
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Ok - let's do this Asher
You are claiming doctor. Night 1 you targeted geo? Your number 1 target on day2? Why?
Who did you target last night and why?
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Ok - let's do this Asher
You are claiming doctor. Night 1 you targeted geo? Your number 1 target on day2? Why?
Who did you target last night and why?
Someone quoted the Geo post that made me choose him as likely town--the one where he was upset that I had hammered. It seemed so honest and in the moment. On day 2 I thought his behavior went scummy. Plus, he clearly wasn't the NK target, although that didn't tell me much of anything. You saw the back and forth with us on D2--we suspected each other more as the day went.
N2 I targeted you, Frisk, to protect. I blithely believed your claim. I sent my action in very quickly. A mistake, as I should have thought more on it. I just thought, protect the cop!
So ironically, now I am voting you after protecting you, the same as Geo on D2 after N1. Only this time I am right.
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Idea: both ashersky and Frisk get really really drunk and go at it ehunt-style, no one intervenes until we figure out which of them is lying. Possible problem: Mrs Frisk might not appreciate the plan.
Mrs. ashersky would also object.
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Here is a message from my son on the subject:
333333333333333333333333333333333333333w`
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Here is a message from my son on the subject:
333333333333333333333333333333333333333w`
So you'd say your trade is a family business?
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Here is a message from my son on the subject:
333333333333333333333333333333333333333w`
So you'd say your trade is a family business?
He's 15 months - I'm giving him a little slack...
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Here is a message from my son on the subject:
333333333333333333333333333333333333333w`
So you'd say your trade is a family business?
He's 15 months - I'm giving him a little slack...
Fos: Baby Frisk
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Ok - let's do this Asher
You are claiming doctor. Night 1 you targeted geo? Your number 1 target on day2? Why?
Who did you target last night and why?
Someone quoted the Geo post that made me choose him as likely town--the one where he was upset that I had hammered. It seemed so honest and in the moment. On day 2 I thought his behavior went scummy. Plus, he clearly wasn't the NK target, although that didn't tell me much of anything. You saw the back and forth with us on D2--we suspected each other more as the day went.
N2 I targeted you, Frisk, to protect. I blithely believed your claim. I sent my action in very quickly. A mistake, as I should have thought more on it. I just thought, protect the cop!
So ironically, now I am voting you after protecting you, the same as Geo on D2 after N1. Only this time I am right.
Listen - I have already lost to the ridiculous Glooble / DSell claims in M4 - which were clearly false afterwards, but there's NO WAY i'm going to let town lose to mafia who is claiming that he is this much of a noob.
Do you folks see this? Asher is claiming to have doctored obvious scum. This is Morgrim level insanity.
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Cuzz - what is your read on this situation? Crazy rant and the baby talk stands out?
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I'll lay it all out again, as I see it.
Looking at D3, is my claim and argument making any sense as anything other than true town? What kind of Mafia does this? Coming clean helped the town most, so that's what I did. I won't claim to have played masterfully or well, as clearly I haven't. But I've called Frisk on his lie and he's had no real argument against it other than to keep pointing fingers at me. What kind of super-meta bold move would it be to not only fakeclaim doctor now, so soon into D3, but to explain everything the way I have? And any of you townies, imagine if I was mafia and your mafia partner? How would you be feeling now? I would have to be suiciding Mafia to be revealing this way.
Also some retro-perspective:
Why I didn't to claim on D2 -- I'd be dead, for one. Mafia would have NKed the real PR.
Why kill Geo -- his death makes the D2 stalled-wagon on me the easiest to restart today.
I made a mistake by not seeing the Frisk lie for what it was on D2. Lesson learned.
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Cuzz - what is your read on this situation? Crazy rant and the baby talk stands out?
Haha. I'm a bit drunk so following the last 2 pages and trying to put myself inside the heads of 5 other people is proving tricky.
I need ashersky to comment on the following. We've been over it somewhat, but to summarize bluntly:
Frisk's claim of cop contained mention of a jailkeeper. You then claim to have protected him as doctor. If you are really the doctor, you should have known immediately that he was lying, since the setup of the game can contain no more than 2 town PR's. You've been doctor all game, so town PR's should have been on your mind since the beginning. Explain yourself. You really just want us to take "it all happened so fast" as an excuse?
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Cuzz - what is your read on this situation? Crazy rant and the baby talk stands out?
Haha. I'm a bit drunk so following the last 2 pages and trying to put myself inside the heads of 5 other people is proving tricky.
I need ashersky to comment on the following. We've been over it somewhat, but to summarize bluntly:
Frisk's claim of cop contained mention of a jailkeeper. You then claim to have protected him as doctor. If you are really the doctor, you should have known immediately that he was lying, since the setup of the game can contain no more than 2 town PR's. You've been doctor all game, so town PR's should have been on your mind since the beginning. Explain yourself. You really just want us to take "it all happened so fast" as an excuse?
Nope. I want you to take Ash is basically an idiot as an excuse. At first I thought Frisk and I were the PRs for the town, and the JK was a throwaway comment, or actually existed. I hadn't even realized the two PR rule thing until way late (like today, when the convo around it happened--that is part of why I asked about the doc in my soft claim on D2, since I was confused about how it all worked), and that is on me for not knowing the set up well. I went into N2 happy and convinced we were in good shape.
Now, take that as you will, but you think anyone would actually try to use this ignorance defense as a lie? I am the Doctor. If that means Frisk is not the cop, as he himself says must be, he is mafia and we should lynch him. Unless there is a way we are both telling the truth.
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Frisk, Jorbles has to be town if you are and he is voting for you atm. I'm believing ashersky as well. So, with ashersky there is (at least) 3 people who think you are scum now.
Case against you: You being scum is the most likely explanation for all this.
I get the feeling you think this is false, explain why and convince me!
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Frisk, Jorbles has to be town if you are and he is voting for you atm. I'm believing ashersky as well. So, with ashersky there is (at least) 3 people who think you are scum now.
Case against you: You being scum is the most likely explanation for all this.
I get the feeling you think this is false, explain why and convince me!
I can't refute such a compelling case eevee. Volt also thinks I'm scum, and Cuzz thought enough to try to lynch me yesterday. That's 5 out of 6.
(http://i.imgur.com/z3P4r.jpg)
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Lets pick this up tomorrow folks, Mrs. Frisk wants to go watch Dexter Season 6.
Fullclaim, I'm not a cop, I'm a serial killer.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Keiseibus-twinbus-20071013.jpg/220px-Keiseibus-twinbus-20071013.jpg)
So, if ashersky is one mafia, who is the other?
And I'm not sure if I've seen a full explanation for investigating Jorbles over someone more vocal (like myself or Volt or Geo), did you ever give one?
You don't have to answer today, we have a lot of time. Dexter used to be a really great show (seasons 1, 2 and 4), 6 is just utter garbage though. Like really bad. It manages to disappoint even after the failure of season 5 which is quite incredible in itself.
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Fullclaim, I'm not a cop, I'm a serial killer.
Guessing this is a joke, but...
If he is, and he tried to kill Geo on N1 (as he claimed to have investigated) my doctor power would have saved him.
If he is, when mafia went to kill him on N2, my doctor power would have saved him.
Seems SK would be a stretch though...Would it be listed as a possible role in the original post?
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There are no roles in this game beyond those listed in the original post.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Keiseibus-twinbus-20071013.jpg/220px-Keiseibus-twinbus-20071013.jpg)
So, if ashersky is one mafia, who is the other?
If I am mafia, who is the other? It's the same question. Sounds like Volt thinks it is Cuzz. Clearly, it has to be Asher + oneof(Cuzz, you, Volt) I suppose I'd put them in that order, but both you and Volt's stubborn belief that I am scum with no case is interesting. I can understand skepticism - Jorble's vote seems reasoned - and based on a legit case (he believes Asher instead of me) - but you two seemed confident that I was scum prior.
As for investigating Jorbles, I explained my reasoning previously. It may not have been as thoroughly researched as previous efforts, but I'm on vacation, and its a whole lot better than whatever BS asher just invented out of his ....
You do however seem to have one correct read: Dexter Season 6 episodes 1 and 2 were underwhelming
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Frisk, I'm by no means sure you are lying. I just, much like Volt and Jorbles I assume, think it is the most likely explanation. So, if you are town, you should not troll but rather offer rational arguments. Pairs analysis is something Volt started, and I plan on doing for sure. We have plenty of time to make the right call. You and ashersky should spend it thinking of ways to prove your legitimacy, me Jorbles and cuzz should try to decipher which of you is lying. You have to understand it's a hard spot!
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If Frisk is telling the truth, the jailkeeper is still out there.
If Frisk is lying, I believe Ash is the doctor. In fact, I have a chicken-scratch analysis last night that indentified Ash as either a power role or the remaining mafia. At this point, I believe mafia would be willing to bus one another. But not yesterday...
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If Frisk is telling the truth, the jailkeeper is still out there.
I really believe we have a jailkeeper either way. Frisk wouldn't make that lie if he didn't know that, way too easy to get caught.
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It would be great if someone would unvote. L-2 in MyLo (probably) is not good.
One more time! Pairs analysis...
Information for the town to chew on. My own analysis at the end. This is all from my point of view. If you're still doubting me as town at this point, most of this won't hold water for you.
Remaining Possible Pairs:
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
Ash/Jorbles
Jorbles/Eevee
1. If Frisk is telling the truth, these are the possible scum pairs. It means the jailkeeper is out there and has not claimed.
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
Ash/Jorbles
Jorbles/Eevee
2. If Frisk is lying, these are the possible scum pairs. While I used to think it possible that Ash was his most likely scum partner, I no longer think it true as the town would have at least one, probably two, people who could counter-claim and prove one or both are lying.
Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
Ash/Jorbles
Jorbles/Eevee
Let's also take a look at the votes:
Day One
Robz888 (5): O, Cuzz, Captain_Frisk, Morgrim7, ashersky
Morgrim7 (2): Robz888, GeoLib
ashersky (1): Eevee
Not voting (1): Jorbles
Day Two
Captain_Frisk (1): Geolib
Cuzz (1): Captain_Frisk
Geolib (1): ashersky
ashersky (3): Cuzz, Eevee, Voltaire
Not voting (1): Jorbles
My take
For reasons stated in 2. above, one of either Frisk or Ash is town. I used to think that Frisk's late claim on D2 was scummy (I thought he posted multiple times without claiming after I stated I was willing to hammer), but in re-reading he posted one "Are you sure?," one "Moving location, claim to follow" and then his Cop claim. So I no longer use this as evidence against him and I don't think others should either.
That said, all of his reads have been wrong. He voted for Robz on Day 1, thought Geo was scummier than Ash on Day 2, and then voted for Geo. Now, plenty of town players are wrong, too.
But here's the biggest case against him: If he's town, the scum let him live. They let the town live, knowing he would get at least one more investigation in. That's crazy WIFOM. It's HUGE WIFOM. We can't overlook this.
If Frisk is scum, it is possible that Ash is the doctor and our only power role. If Frisk were rolecop, could he have investigated Ash, found out he was doctor, and done the whole cop/jailkeeper thing counting on ash's newbie confusion? Something to think about.
Either way, no matter what side you take, we have at least one more scum who has done a great job of blending in.
PE Edit: @Eevee: then do you think the Jailkeeper should claim? Would that help decide between the two scenarios? What if we only have a doctor (Ash) and Frisks's scum partner claims to be Jailkeeper and backs up his story?
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Vote Count 3-2
Captain_Frisk (2): ashersky, Jorbles
Not voting (4): Cuzz, Eevee, Voltaire, Captain_Frisk
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
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If Frisk is telling the truth, the jailkeeper is still out there.
I really believe we have a jailkeeper either way. Frisk wouldn't make that lie if he didn't know that, way too easy to get caught.
If the jailkeeper came out, we could settle this right now. At least they would be able to corroborate the Geolib protection on N1. And a scum fakeclaim to protect Frisk would then mean both scum are out there lying their asses off, doubling the opportunity to find holes in the stories. Not saying a potentially nonexistent JK should claim now, but I think we should consider having them do so before we make a decision. An honest JK would be enough to lynch ashersky, and we'd then go up 3-1 tomorrow if we lose the JK tonight. Frisk would even have another chance to target scum.
The above is the scenario is the one in which Frisk is telling the truth. I'm beginning to have doubts, mostly based on my earlier personal assessment that Frisk telling the truth means both Volt and Eevee are likely scum. In fact that evaluation no longer works, as Frisk telling the truth means that ashersky is scum. From my perspective, his only scumpartner can be Eevee or Voltaire, both of whom voted for ashersky at the deadline yesterday. There would have been no reason to do so as scum; everything was hectic and it would have been so easy to claim that one had intended to vote for ashersky but didn't get there in time. Note that even if you also think I'm a possible ashersky scumpartner, the previous sentence applies to me as well.
In fact to sum up, if Frisk is telling the truth, ashersky is scum and all of his possible scumpartners tried to build a wagon on him from nothing at the deadline.
Ok now that I've written that out, I'm more than beginning to have doubts...
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But here's the biggest case against him: If he's town, the scum let him live. They let the town live, knowing he would get at least one more investigation in. That's crazy WIFOM. It's HUGE WIFOM. We can't overlook this.
If Frisk is scum, it is possible that Ash is the doctor and our only power role. If Frisk were rolecop, could he have investigated Ash, found out he was doctor, and done the whole cop/jailkeeper thing counting on ash's newbie confusion? Something to think about.
Either way, no matter what side you take, we have at least one more scum who has done a great job of blending in.
PE Edit: @Eevee: then do you think the Jailkeeper should claim? Would that help decide between the two scenarios? What if we only have a doctor (Ash) and Frisks's scum partner claims to be Jailkeeper and backs up his story?
Isn't Jailkeeper's anonymity going to be our biggest asset in the search for a scum partner?
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If I am mafia, who is the other? It's the same question. Sounds like Volt thinks it is Cuzz. Clearly, it has to be Asher + oneof(Cuzz, you, Volt) I suppose I'd put them in that order, but both you and Volt's stubborn belief that I am scum with no case is interesting.
Frisk, it's statements like this that make you so scummy in my eyes. You claimed cop, and lived. That's a huge case against you. Do you understand why, in a universe where we are both town, I'd be highly suspicious of you?
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But here's the biggest case against him: If he's town, the scum let him live. They let the town live, knowing he would get at least one more investigation in. That's crazy WIFOM. It's HUGE WIFOM. We can't overlook this.
If Frisk is scum, it is possible that Ash is the doctor and our only power role. If Frisk were rolecop, could he have investigated Ash, found out he was doctor, and done the whole cop/jailkeeper thing counting on ash's newbie confusion? Something to think about.
Either way, no matter what side you take, we have at least one more scum who has done a great job of blending in.
PE Edit: @Eevee: then do you think the Jailkeeper should claim? Would that help decide between the two scenarios? What if we only have a doctor (Ash) and Frisks's scum partner claims to be Jailkeeper and backs up his story?
Isn't Jailkeeper's anonymity going to be our biggest asset in the search for a scum partner?
How? I don't see it.
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I wanna see some deep analysis from Jorbles's perspective. Not to throw around accusations (a mafia game is no place for that) but a Frisk Jorbles scumteam is seeming more and more likely to me. Jorbles's vote on Frisk would be have been quite reckless for a townie who still thought Frisk had a chance of being town.
Jorbles:
Do you believe that one of ashersky and Frisk has to be scum?
If so, which one? And who is the possible scumpartner?
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@Voltaire:
Because if a JK comes out then the remaining mafia will know exactly who to kill tonight. If they stay hidden we might get a no kill night.
@Cuzz:
Jorbles:
Do you believe that one of ashersky and Frisk has to be scum?
If so, which one? And who is the possible scumpartner?
I am fairly certain that one of Frisk and ashersky is scum, and based on ashersky's arguments I'm pretty sure it's Frisk. At the moment I would say that his possible scum partner is most likely to be Eevee. It's clearly not ashersky as they've counterclaimed I still hold by the meta analysis of Voltgrim and you bussed him too hard d2 for it to be you.
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@Voltaire:
Because if a JK comes out then the remaining mafia will know exactly who to kill tonight. If they stay hidden we might get a no kill night.
But a no-kill isn't that great if we can lynch mafia, and JK revealing would help that. Even at this point, a one-for-one trade would be great...right?
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@Voltaire:
Because if a JK comes out then the remaining mafia will know exactly who to kill tonight. If they stay hidden we might get a no kill night.
But a no-kill isn't that great if we can lynch mafia, and JK revealing would help that. Even at this point, a one-for-one trade would be great...right?
Won't it be a 2-for-1 though? Whoever you believe we've already got a PR outed for this lynch.
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@Voltaire:
Because if a JK comes out then the remaining mafia will know exactly who to kill tonight. If they stay hidden we might get a no kill night.
But a no-kill isn't that great if we can lynch mafia, and JK revealing would help that. Even at this point, a one-for-one trade would be great...right?
Won't it be a 2-for-1 though? Whoever you believe we've already got a PR outed for this lynch.
Are you still thinking Frisk is the likely outed mafia? I want to make sure I'm walking through this right.
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If the jailkeeper did target Frisk or Geolib n1 than they should keep quiet because this fact doesn't prove Frisk or ash's claim to be true, Frisk could have known that as a rolecop or a cop. If they targeted someone else I guess they should come out as it would prove Frisk wrong.
Sidenote: could a jailkeeper disprove ashersky's claim or do doctor's not get results?
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@Voltaire:
Because if a JK comes out then the remaining mafia will know exactly who to kill tonight. If they stay hidden we might get a no kill night.
@Cuzz:
Jorbles:
Do you believe that one of ashersky and Frisk has to be scum?
If so, which one? And who is the possible scumpartner?
I am fairly certain that one of Frisk and ashersky is scum, and based on ashersky's arguments I'm pretty sure it's Frisk. At the moment I would say that his possible scum partner is most likely to be Eevee. It's clearly not ashersky as they've counterclaimed I still hold by the meta analysis of Voltgrim and you bussed him too hard d2 for it to be you.
I'm not buying this. Everyone else has had no trouble analyzing all the possibilities and defending their arguments at this point in the game. There's too much evidence floating around now. You say you're "fairly certain" one of them is scum? One of them is scum because one of them is lying and town has no reason to lie.
The above strikes me as "oh damn, I need to say something but it's hard for me to imagine what I'd say if I were town." You make a couple of wishy-washy statements without expanding or explaining, or citing previous arguments of others. As I say to my calculus students: "Show your work!"
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Sidenote: could a jailkeeper disprove ashersky's claim or do doctor's not get results?
Doctors do not get results.
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@Voltaire:
Because if a JK comes out then the remaining mafia will know exactly who to kill tonight. If they stay hidden we might get a no kill night.
@Cuzz:
Jorbles:
Do you believe that one of ashersky and Frisk has to be scum?
If so, which one? And who is the possible scumpartner?
I am fairly certain that one of Frisk and ashersky is scum, and based on ashersky's arguments I'm pretty sure it's Frisk. At the moment I would say that his possible scum partner is most likely to be Eevee. It's clearly not ashersky as they've counterclaimed I still hold by the meta analysis of Voltgrim and you bussed him too hard d2 for it to be you.
I'm not buying this. Everyone else has had no trouble analyzing all the possibilities and defending their arguments at this point in the game. There's too much evidence floating around now. You say you're "fairly certain" one of them is scum? One of them is scum because one of them is lying and town has no reason to lie.
The above strikes me as "oh damn, I need to say something but it's hard for me to imagine what I'd say if I were town." You make a couple of wishy-washy statements without expanding or explaining, or citing previous arguments of others. As I say to my calculus students: "Show your work!"
Okay you caught me using wishy washy language. Congratulations. [/sarcasm] That is a super thin accusation that isn't helping anything.
One of them is scum and I believe it to be Frisk. I thought that was already fairly apparent BY MY VOTE. Happy?
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That was not apparent by your vote, as I explained. We've been in D3 for barely an rl day and you put Frisk at L-2, which at this point sets us up to lose if you're wrong since mafia can do a 1-2 quickhammer. This is very risky, unless you happen to know for certain exactly who is mafia.
Now, I don't think there's much risk of that happening now, but at the time it was very unwise if you are indeed town.
A couple more questions:
You ended D2 without voting. Who would you have voted for and why?
If Eevee is indeed Frisk's scumpartner, why do you think he so ready to lynch him at the end of D2 before Frisk claimed?
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But here's the biggest case against him: If he's town, the scum let him live. They let the town live, knowing he would get at least one more investigation in. That's crazy WIFOM. It's HUGE WIFOM. We can't overlook this.
If Frisk is scum, it is possible that Ash is the doctor and our only power role. If Frisk were rolecop, could he have investigated Ash, found out he was doctor, and done the whole cop/jailkeeper thing counting on ash's newbie confusion? Something to think about.
Either way, no matter what side you take, we have at least one more scum who has done a great job of blending in.
PE Edit: @Eevee: then do you think the Jailkeeper should claim? Would that help decide between the two scenarios? What if we only have a doctor (Ash) and Frisks's scum partner claims to be Jailkeeper and backs up his story?
Isn't Jailkeeper's anonymity going to be our biggest asset in the search for a scum partner?
I think it is. What good could come out of a claim? Obviously claim if you are getting lynched otherwise, but since the existence of jailkeeper doesn't clear Frisk, I think he should stay hidden.
Okay crazy idea, but Cuzz fits both mafia teams! So, if we lynched him today, Frisk would either die at night or get another investigation in, and we'd basically be a lock?
Cuzz can't both die and be the jailkeeper (cause obviously he claims and we form a new theory if we run into that problem), so even if cuzz is town, we still have a shot (jailkeeper + maybe a doctor alive). But really, for Cuzz to be town Voltaire (or me) would need to be scum, and that's a risk I think I'd be willing to take.
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Ashersky is already voting for Frisk, so Jorbles's vote is not really dangerous. Next one would be.
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Okay crazy idea, but Cuzz fits both mafia teams! So, if we lynched him today, Frisk would either die at night or get another investigation in, and we'd basically be a lock?
Wait, how are you getting this? I don't see that at all.
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Okay crazy idea, but Cuzz fits both mafia teams! So, if we lynched him today, Frisk would either die at night or get another investigation in, and we'd basically be a lock?
Wait, how are you getting this? I don't see that at all.
Note: excluding all bussing evidence for now.
I'm town. Jorbles is town if Frisk is town. Ashersky and Frisk can't both be town or both be mafia.
Ashersky's possible partners: Cuzz or Voltaire. Cuzz has played scummy, Voltaire has the Morgrim-meta that makes him look towny.
Frisk's possible partners: Jorbles (unlikely but possible), Cuzz, Voltaire.
Town read on Volt and Frisk clearing his scumbuddy would be so weird it almost deserves a win -> Cuzz is very likely scum either way. I feel moronic for derailing his lynch yesterday..
Next up: rereading in light of this new information. I encourage others to do the same.
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I'm town. Jorbles is town if Frisk is town. Ashersky and Frisk can't both be town or both be mafia.
Ashersky's possible partners: Cuzz or Voltaire. Cuzz has played scummy, Voltaire has the Morgrim-meta that makes him look towny.
Frisk's possible partners: Jorbles (unlikely but possible), Cuzz, Voltaire.
Town read on Volt and Frisk clearing his scumbuddy would be so weird it almost deserves a win -> Cuzz is very likely scum either way. I feel moronic for derailing his lynch yesterday..
I don't clear Jorbles like that at all. I'm currently agreeing with Cuzz's case against Jorbles.
Who are the power roles in each of your scenarios?
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I'm town. Jorbles is town if Frisk is town. Ashersky and Frisk can't both be town or both be mafia.
Ashersky's possible partners: Cuzz or Voltaire. Cuzz has played scummy, Voltaire has the Morgrim-meta that makes him look towny.
Frisk's possible partners: Jorbles (unlikely but possible), Cuzz, Voltaire.
Town read on Volt and Frisk clearing his scumbuddy would be so weird it almost deserves a win -> Cuzz is very likely scum either way. I feel moronic for derailing his lynch yesterday..
I don't clear Jorbles like that at all. I'm currently agreeing with Cuzz's case against Jorbles.
Who are the power roles in each of your scenarios?
Any of us could be the missing jailkeeper (I really believe there is one). Either ashersky is a doctor or Frisk is a cop.
So you disagree with Jorbles-Frisk pair being improbable? Because that's obviously the only scum pair Jorbles can be part of. And actually sure, that pair is possible enough to not be excluded.
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Okay crazy idea, but Cuzz fits both mafia teams! So, if we lynched him today, Frisk would either die at night or get another investigation in, and we'd basically be a lock?
Wait, how are you getting this? I don't see that at all.
Note: excluding all bussing evidence for now.
I'm town. Jorbles is town if Frisk is town. Ashersky and Frisk can't both be town or both be mafia.
Ashersky's possible partners: Cuzz or Voltaire. Cuzz has played scummy, Voltaire has the Morgrim-meta that makes him look towny.
Frisk's possible partners: Jorbles (unlikely but possible), Cuzz, Voltaire.
Town read on Volt and Frisk clearing his scumbuddy would be so weird it almost deserves a win -> Cuzz is very likely scum either way. I feel moronic for derailing his lynch yesterday..
Next up: rereading in light of this new information. I encourage others to do the same.
I'm not really following this. We know Frisk or ashersky is scum, and you're assuming I'm the scumbuddy of either of them? Can you do me a favor and read over my play on D2 again? I pushed hard for a Frisk lynch. This was not a mild vote slipped in surreptitiously to avoid suspicion. I started the wagon on frisk when no one else suspected him, and I called for someone to hammer when he was at L-1. I wanted to lynch him. If you can explain why Frisk's scumbuddy would act as I did on D2 I'm all ears.
Note, I also was ready to lynch ashersky at the deadline on D2, as were you and Voltaire for the most part. I used this as evidence to mostly clear you and Voltaire if ashersky was scum, but then since those were all his possible partners (since he being scum => Frisk & Jorbles are town), this led me to believe Frisk and Jorbles is a likely team. You're not willing to follow this argument, or even comment on it as far as I can tell.
Okay crazy idea, but Cuzz fits both mafia teams! So, if we lynched him today, Frisk would either die at night or get another investigation in, and we'd basically be a lock?
I don't follow this either. Frisk dying tonight would mean Frisk is town. I am town, so if you lynch me today, and Frisk dies tonight we lose.
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Any of us could be the missing jailkeeper (I really believe there is one).
If you really believe there's a jailkeeper, why are you pushing for my lynch instead of ashersky??
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Cuzz, I did say that was before any additional evidence. If what you say is accurate, we can pretty much clear you from Frisk's possible partners. Need to re-read day 2 before I can comment further!
There being a jailkeeper doesn't prove Frisk's case one bit. If he is lying, he is the mafia rolecop.
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Any of us could be the missing jailkeeper (I really believe there is one).
If you really believe there's a jailkeeper, why are you pushing for my lynch instead of ashersky??
And I'm by no means pushing for your lynch!! Frisk accused me of pushing for his lynch today too already, and neither statement is true at all. I'm not pushing for any lynch. I'm investigating.
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So you disagree with Jorbles-Frisk pair being improbable? Because that's obviously the only scum pair Jorbles can be part of. And actually sure, that pair is possible enough to not be excluded.
It's the pair I feel most good about right now, though I am not certain. There's no need to be certain of the pair as long as the person we lynch has a plausible pair. Honestly eevee, with your Cuzz theory, you being scum increases in odds, whereas I'm currently treating you as obvtown.
Frisk appears he's ready to vote Asher, and views Cuzz as his likely partner, with the two of us following behind. So he might be willing to vote for Cuzz.
Eevee, I urge you to re-think your theory, or come up with more evidence. At the moment, it looks like scummy desperation, so if I'm misreading it I want to know for sure.
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Phone lurking - will post more during baby nap.
Cuzz did start the wagon on me day 2 - when I called him out for lurking
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So you disagree with Jorbles-Frisk pair being improbable? Because that's obviously the only scum pair Jorbles can be part of. And actually sure, that pair is possible enough to not be excluded.
It's the pair I feel most good about right now, though I am not certain. There's no need to be certain of the pair as long as the person we lynch has a plausible pair. Honestly eevee, with your Cuzz theory, you being scum increases in odds, whereas I'm currently treating you as obvtown.
Frisk appears he's ready to vote Asher, and views Cuzz as his likely partner, with the two of us following behind. So he might be willing to vote for Cuzz.
Eevee, I urge you to re-think your theory, or come up with more evidence. At the moment, it looks like scummy desperation, so if I'm misreading it I want to know for sure.
As I said, I'm just contemplating all the options before re-reading so I know what to look for. Wanted to run that theory by everyone right when I thought of it, seems it isn't viable so I'll drop it. Expect "final" opinions after I've reread day 2.
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As I said, I'm just contemplating all the options before re-reading so I know what to look for. Wanted to run that theory by everyone right when I thought of it, seems it isn't viable so I'll drop it. Expect "final" opinions after I've reread day 2.
Understood. Always need to consider all options.
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Btw, eliminating possible scum pairs is really really good at this point. Much easier to find scum that way I predict.
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Ok guys - rapid fire posts coming because I don't know how much time I have. I'm going to try to analyze all possible scum pairs from the perspective of a purely neutral observer.
2 quick notes:
1. Asher - I know you're playing n00b, but pretending like my serial killer "claim" was even remotely possible is completely implausible as town doctor. As a town PR - you're obligated to actually pay attention to the game rules.
2. Jailkeeper - if you're not Jorbles - we can win this thing. Obviously - don't claim because I understand you can't trust me. Hear me out though:
- Step 1: Lynch Asher (confirmed scum from my perspective)
- Step 2: Protect one of the following (Volt, eevee, cuzz). Obviously one of these is you, so you're picking one of the other two. Announce which one you're targeting (preferably after the hammer so that scum can't mess with the plan). I'll cop the other.
- Step 3:
a. If no-kill happens - then we have the killer. Either you've jailed him or I've copped him.
b. If a kill happens - then it was the person you didn't target. Jorbles is confirmed town
- Step 4: Lynch him
- Step 5: Profit!!!!
If I'm lying, then you've outted yourself - but you don't have to stick to the plan any more because you'll know whether or not I'm telling the truth after the thread lock.
It does require some faith in me - which will be restored after asher's flip, but I understand if you don't want to do this plan. Just think about it is all I'm asking.
If Jorbles is the jailkeeper, well then it doesn't work because there's too many unconfirmed people.
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All right - pairs analysis.
Clearly we either have mod error, or one of {Asher, Frisk} is lying.
Possible scum pairs with 6: (alphebetical)
1. Asher + Captain_Frisk
2. Asher + Cuzz
3. Asher + eeVee
4. Asher + Jorbles
5. Asher + Volt
6. Captain_Frisk + Cuzz
7. Captain_Frisk + eevee
8. Captain_Frisk + Jorbles
9. Captain_Frisk + Volt
10. Cuzz + eevee
11. Cuzz + Jorbles
12. Cuzz + Volt
13. eevee + Jorbles
14. eevee + Volt
15. Jorbles + Volt
I'm going to rule out mod error, and thus strike 10 through 15. Agreed?
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1. Asher + Captain_Frisk
This one is growing on me from a neutral perspective. We fight today. The other is confirmed town forever.
Baby isn't napping - will resume later.
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Yes, I think we should accept that either you or ashersky, is scum.
The both theory coming from you boggles my mind, but seems too risky as it means suicide for one of you, and going down 3-1 or 4-1 tomorrow.
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10. Cuzz + eevee
11. Cuzz + Jorbles
12. Cuzz + Volt
13. eevee + Jorbles
14. eevee + Volt
15. Jorbles + Volt
I'm going to rule out mod error, and thus strike 10 through 15. Agreed?
What mod error would that be?
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Something like having 3 PR's by accident.
Also, I'll need to read your list a bit more carefully later, but for now I think you can also cross out 4. If asher is scum, Jorbles is confirmed town by Frisk.
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I like where we're going with the methodical scumpairhunting. I'll be gone for a few hours, but in the meantime I'd like responses to a few comments I made earlier. I know it hasn't been long so I understand if you haven't gotten a chance to answer, but I don't want them to get buried under other discussion.
Jorbles, please respond to this:
That was not apparent by your vote, as I explained. We've been in D3 for barely an rl day and you put Frisk at L-2, which at this point sets us up to lose if you're wrong since mafia can do a 1-2 quickhammer. This is very risky, unless you happen to know for certain exactly who is mafia.
Now, I don't think there's much risk of that happening now, but at the time it was very unwise if you are indeed town.
A couple more questions:
You ended D2 without voting. Who would you have voted for and why?
If Eevee is indeed Frisk's scumpartner, why do you think he so ready to lynch him at the end of D2 before Frisk claimed?
And Eevee, please respond to both parts of this:
Note, I also was ready to lynch ashersky at the deadline on D2, as were you and Voltaire for the most part. I used this as evidence to mostly clear you and Voltaire if ashersky was scum, but then since those were all his possible partners (since he being scum => Frisk & Jorbles are town), this led me to believe Frisk and Jorbles is a likely team. You're not willing to follow this argument, or even comment on it as far as I can tell.
Okay crazy idea, but Cuzz fits both mafia teams! So, if we lynched him today, Frisk would either die at night or get another investigation in, and we'd basically be a lock?
I don't follow this either. Frisk dying tonight would mean Frisk is town. I am town, so if you lynch me today, and Frisk dies tonight we lose.
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The intro post describing the setup is accurate. The setup is one of the following:
- 5 VT, Cop, Doctor, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 5 VT, Cop, Jailkeeper, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 5 VT, Doctor, Jailkeeper, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 6 VT, Cop, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 6 VT, Doctor, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 6 VT, Jailkeeper, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
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The intro post describing the setup is accurate. The setup is one of the following:
- 5 VT, Cop, Doctor, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 5 VT, Cop, Jailkeeper, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 5 VT, Doctor, Jailkeeper, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 6 VT, Cop, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 6 VT, Doctor, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 6 VT, Jailkeeper, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
Was it chosen as a d6 selection or by taking one of 3 Prs, and then one of three remaining legal options?
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The intro post describing the setup is accurate. The setup is one of the following:
- 5 VT, Cop, Doctor, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 5 VT, Cop, Jailkeeper, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 5 VT, Doctor, Jailkeeper, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 6 VT, Cop, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 6 VT, Doctor, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
- 6 VT, Jailkeeper, Mafia Goon, Mafia Rolecop
Was it chosen as a d6 selection or by taking one of 3 Prs, and then one of three remaining legal options?
Each of the 6 possible scenarios were equally likely.
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I like where we're going with the methodical scumpairhunting. I'll be gone for a few hours, but in the meantime I'd like responses to a few comments I made earlier. I know it hasn't been long so I understand if you haven't gotten a chance to answer, but I don't want them to get buried under other discussion.
Jorbles, please respond to this:
That was not apparent by your vote, as I explained. We've been in D3 for barely an rl day and you put Frisk at L-2, which at this point sets us up to lose if you're wrong since mafia can do a 1-2 quickhammer. This is very risky, unless you happen to know for certain exactly who is mafia.
Now, I don't think there's much risk of that happening now, but at the time it was very unwise if you are indeed town.
A couple more questions:
You ended D2 without voting. Who would you have voted for and why?
If Eevee is indeed Frisk's scumpartner, why do you think he so ready to lynch him at the end of D2 before Frisk claimed?
At the time I probably would have most liked to vote for GeoLib again. I hadn't ruled you out as a scum pairing for him and my unvote was to give myself more time to think about it. It's hard to put myself in those shoes as so much had happened since I'd last read the thread. I could have voted for Frisk also his claim seemed didn't ring totally true to me. It doesn't really matter what I say though, since it never ended up happening you can say I can say anything I want.
Eevee would have appeared to have been ready to lynch Frisk because they could have orchestrated a possible cop claim after the results of night 1 in case one of them drew suspicion (because they knew a jailkeeper would be in the game). The other buses and then pushes for a claim, when the claim comes believe the claim. What happened was Cuzz suspected Frisk and votes for him, Eevee gets on board, Eevee pushes for Frisk to claim, Frisk claims cop and then Eevee unvotes almost immediately. Then they tried for a quicklynch on ashersky. That almost worked!
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Okay, re-read day 2. I'll just copypaste the notes I took without forming it like a normal post, because I'm so very eager to re-read day 3 too now. Ask for clarifications if something is unclear!
Ashersky either planning on fakeclaiming a power role or softclaiming one #416
ashersky definitely softclaiming a power role #486
cuzz not jumping on neither of the existing wagons but voting for morgrim instead looks slightly town #489
cuzz starts the frisk wagon #551
jorbles immediately votes for someone else, trying to get any wagon but frisk wagon going maybe?
ashersky AGAIN softclaiming #562 "losing me would be detrimental to town"
frisk puts town geolib to L-1 #564
GEO ASKING SHOULD HE CLAIM IN 566. mafia probably killed him in the hopes of hitting a power role!! GREAT JOB geo, awesome protecting of power roles by a vt. really excellently played.
geo says his strongest scum read is frisk and that he wants to vote for jorbles !!! #594
#600 and #602, i catch jorbles voting for someone he doesnt want to vote for in the end. this makes jorb look pretty bad now i think
#608 frisk states he has no read on jorbles
#614 frisk also votes for cuzz, so really not seeing that scum pair
#616 frisk being stupider than he is, scummy? also happened earlier when i was explaining why geo must be town (the part where jorbles got confused. makes the two look really bad imo)
Frisk never mentioning the part where his claim could just as well be explained by him being a rolecop is very scummy I think. Looks like he was counting on no one noticing.
#657 ashersky ONCE AGAIN softclaiming doctor
#665 ashersky again softclaims doctor
First of all, re-reading is super informational. I did not remember a lot of that, and the constant softclaiming by ashersky was clearly lost on me yesterday.
tl;dr
Frisk-Jorbles looks very plausible. Ashersky looks like the real doctor. I'm willing to lynch Frisk today now, the evidence is just piling.
Possible pairs I see:
Frisk-Jorbles
Frisk-Voltaire
Ashersky-Cuzz
Ashersky-Voltaire
Am I missing any, anyone disagree with those assuming I'm town? Meta-townread on Volt leaves us with ashersky-Cuzz or Frisk-Jorbles, and I'm really more and more convinced it's the latter.
Off to re-read day 3! Hope this post is clear enough even without proofreading and formatting.
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tl;dr
Frisk-Jorbles looks very plausible. Ashersky looks like the real doctor. I'm willing to lynch Frisk today now, the evidence is just piling.
Possible pairs I see:
Frisk-Jorbles
Frisk-Voltaire
Ashersky-Cuzz
Ashersky-Voltaire
Am I missing any, anyone disagree with those assuming I'm town? Meta-townread on Volt leaves us with ashersky-Cuzz or Frisk-Jorbles, and I'm really more and more convinced it's the latter.
Great post Eevee. I'm in agreement with you here. From what he's posted, I think Cuzz is too.
At some point in this game you have to make a choice, since you can (almost) never be 100% sure. I'm ready to make that choice today and vote for Frisk for real this time.
Awaiting your Day 3 recap, Eevee, as well as hearing from ashersky now that all of this is out there.
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2. Asher + Cuzz
Cuzz voted asher during panic time last night - otherwise there has been very little interaction. This would be my #1 read. His post #551 (where I called him out for not being in thread) reads scummy to me. Also - I'm not sure I caught this - but he claimed VT in post #654. The shift to Jorbles vs. Geolib is interesting - since geolib was a legit wagon opportunity. This is a semi plausible scum pair.
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3. Asher + eeVee
Eevee was pushing an Asher wagon aggressively day 2 - and tried to lynch him again at end of day. Asher's n00bedness was so in your face that eeVee's wagon pushing was unlikely to be successful, at least IMHO, but it's still pretty aggressive. If you guys go back to to the M6 QT - Ozle and I planned to have a big fight early day 2 - to semi clear eachother.
Eevee has attracted no suspicion from anyone thus far - except for brief suspicion by Geolib on day 2 (post #432 - quickly backed by Morgrim). I assume we can't really ask Volt why he voted in that situation.
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I saw a lot of excellent analysis and recap in today's posts. I think I am finally caught up.
On Frisk's possible partner, to me it seems like it has to be one of Jorbles, Eevee, or Voltaire. I agree with previous analysis from Eevee and Voltaire that Cuzz reads town, and felt that on multiple occasions on D3 posts of his. So, in order of likelihood:
Frisk + Jorbles
Frisk + Eevee
Frisk + Voltaire
Now, a lot of good info provided so far showing Jorbles as scummy, at least. I feel like he hung back a bit on D1, maybe that's misremembering though, and then of course D3, Jorbles was a quick 2nd vote on Frisk, which is a safe vote if he knows Frisk is mafia and the quick hammer doesn't exist, and throws towncred his way.
On Eevee, well, he's piling up the evidence on others for us, and taking away suspicion on himself. He was somewhat defensive of Frisk early, but that can be read as town caution not barreling headlong into a lynch so fast on D3. I think Eevee's D2 actions in retrospect look very pro-town. I myself suspected Eevee on D2, if you recall, but was called scummy for what many saw as OMGUS-style reactions. Eevee is my toughest to read.
Voltaire, we just have meta-Morgrim and a day and a half of posts to go on. I don't know, I just can't unbelieve the annoyed Morgrim claim/quit.
So that's where I stand. After a Frisk lynch, I'll be the NK target. Good odds to catch the partner on D4 and win for town.
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I like Eevee's analysis here.
I don't know if there's much to say about the me/ashersky possibility except that I really was trying to lynch him after Frisk claimed yesterday (and thought we did after misreading the prior few pages). I actually voted Jorbles first as my scummier read, and then switched to ashersky when I thought his lynch might have a chance to go through. Can't think of any reason I'd do that if I were scum with ashersky.
That leaves Frisk/Jorbles, which has been my best guess for most of the day. I'm quite willing to lynch him if Eevee, Voltaire and ashersky are on board.
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So we're set, then? The power roles can have some time to think about what they're going to do and we vote? I'm comfortable voting whenever.
At the very least, we'll see what Eevee has to say after re-reading Day 3.
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Couple of questions too (haven't started reading yet btw).
Frisk, what will your flip teach us? Assuming you still claim town, you should say something like "well you will learn this and should do this.."
Jorbles, your thoughts on the Frisk lynch?
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Volt - let me finish. May not be until Monday. We have time.
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Volt - let me finish. May not be until Monday. We have time.
Eh. We don't need it. But if the town would rather wait, we can wait. Let the record show I'm willing to vote now.
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Volt - let me finish. May not be until Monday. We have time.
Eh. We don't need it. But if the town would rather wait, we can wait. Let the record show I'm willing to vote now.
The fact that everyone is on board doesn't bother you at all?
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Volt - let me finish. May not be until Monday. We have time.
Eh. We don't need it. But if the town would rather wait, we can wait. Let the record show I'm willing to vote now.
No harm in waiting. As long as we don't wait for too long like yesterday. :) No one deserves to be lynched without saying everything they want to say.
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Volt - let me finish. May not be until Monday. We have time.
Eh. We don't need it. But if the town would rather wait, we can wait. Let the record show I'm willing to vote now.
The fact that everyone is on board doesn't bother you at all?
Have you been reading? Two mafia left. We are thinking they are you and Jorbles.
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Volt - let me finish. May not be until Monday. We have time.
Eh. We don't need it. But if the town would rather wait, we can wait. Let the record show I'm willing to vote now.
The fact that everyone is on board doesn't bother you at all?
Nope. Your teammate is bussing you, and it's probably Jorbles.
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Volt - let me finish. May not be until Monday. We have time.
Eh. We don't need it. But if the town would rather wait, we can wait. Let the record show I'm willing to vote now.
No harm in waiting. As long as we don't wait for too long like yesterday. :) No one deserves to be lynched without saying everything they want to say.
True. Guess I've got some "O" in me.
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Asher - this is so amazing I'm going to submit it for greatest moments in isotropic history. This epicness crosses game and metho of play boundaries.
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Frisk, what's your breakdown of most likely scum pairs? I know you said me and ashersky, but any others? And do you have a response for my explanation of why I think others should find that unlikely?
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I'm still working it Cuzz. Phone posting now due to baby sitting.
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Couple of questions too (haven't started reading yet btw).
Frisk, what will your flip teach us? Assuming you still claim town, you should say something like "well you will learn this and should do this.."
Jorbles, your thoughts on the Frisk lynch?
I think the Frisk lynch is a good idea, but I think lynching me tomorrow is a bad idea. I think what happened is that Cuzz came up with an incorrect, but plausible theory and Volt and Eevee are jumping onto it. One of them because it'll help them win (Eevee) and one of them because they have a bad read on me (Voltaire).
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Couple of questions too (haven't started reading yet btw).
Frisk, what will your flip teach us? Assuming you still claim town, you should say something like "well you will learn this and should do this.."
Jorbles, your thoughts on the Frisk lynch?
I think the Frisk lynch is a good idea, but I think lynching me tomorrow is a bad idea. I think what happened is that Cuzz came up with an incorrect, but plausible theory and Volt and Eevee are jumping onto it. One of them because it'll help them win (Eevee) and one of them because they have a bad read on me (Voltaire).
So if you think Frisk is the town cop...you're willing to lynch him? Why?
You think it's Eevee/ashersky, then?
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So you think it's me and Frisk then, Jorbles?
@Frisk
If you are town, it must be super frustrating to have your entire team gang up on you like this. Try to keep a clear head, I really think the evidence for a correct lynch is available here..
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You think it's Eevee/ashersky, then?
So you think it's me and Frisk then, Jorbles?
I think Jorbles is saying Frisk + Eevee is the most likely, trying to move the follow-up action away from him. If he's agreed that Frisk is scum, he's either town or willing to go all the way in lynching his partner to try and survive.
That said, I think how we play D4 will depend on who the remaining mafia NKs after we lynch Frisk today.
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I would not read too much into Jorbles supporting a frisk lynch. He knows if he looks like he's defending frisk the game is over.
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I would not read too much into Jorbles supporting a frisk lynch. He knows if he looks like he's defending frisk the game is over.
Obviously. And he clearly hasn't been pushing to make it happen.
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4. Asher + Jorbles
5. Asher + Volt
Someone has pointed out that #4 is impossible, as me telling the truth (I am) means Jorbles is town (he is)
So that leaves #5. Volt put a vote on Asher during day 2 crazytimes, and Asher voted for Morgrim (3rd vote) on day 1 during the RobZ shenanigans, and again as 3rd vote prior to the replacement. I could see myself pulling a "morgrim replacement" as a legit scumteam play, but Asher and Morgrim coming up with this seems unlikely. My least likely scumpair for Asher.
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Well, I'm checking out for about 24 hours. Tipsy times have started on Friday. Good luck scumhunting, all.
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6. Captain_Frisk + Cuzz
7. Captain_Frisk + eevee
8. Captain_Frisk + Jorbles
9. Captain_Frisk + Volt
Attempted thoughts on objectivity on me and my (alleged pairs).
#6 - Minor spat on day 2 accidentally snowballs into a CF lynch and Cuzz is forced to stick with it. Cuzz pretends to believe CF claims at the start of day 3, but is swept away with the rest of townies and forced to vote. Nearing lynch - CF attempts to divert to Cuzz - who is one of quieter folks - hoping for some town credit if he's successful, and putting a shield up on Cuzz if he isn't. Plausible.
#7 - Attempted to set up the town for a town v. town lynch decision
Everyone: Would you be willing to vote for ashersky or GeoLib, and why? Do you agree with me that it has to be one of the two?
Unfortunately, it fizzled, and they got wise to CF. Captain Frisk's desperation claim was an effort to out 2 power roles, it looked like we might get away with it, and then were foiled by Asher's unwillingness to actually realize that his role actually meant that CF was lying. Plausible - but eevee has been much more aggressively anti frisk than Cuzz.
#8 - Jorbles
Have not voted for eachother until Day 3 Asher claim. Frisk attempted to FoS him (#640) day 2 for mega lurking and prod eevee to look at him (#608). Frisk claims he investigated and cleared Jorbles. If scum rolecop (eevee's thought) - then Frisk needs to be confident that Jorbles wasn't jailkept. This means that Frisk either rolecopped Jorbles, or Jorbles did the kill. This is WIFOM - Frisk's "investigation" on Jorbles could be scum trying to get a townie supporter, or trying to provide cover for his scum partner.
#9 - Volt
Frisk has not voted for Morgrim or Volt - and has defended him multiple times - despite being under attack from him after the replacement. Morgrim did not vote for Frisk. Volt has - and has been aggressively pushing the lynch since his replacement.
Obviously - at this point if I'm scum - my partner has to be willing to buss me - and hope that they do so convincingly that they obtain obv. town status. Cuzz and Jorbles are the in the worst positions here. Asher and Volt are in the best.
From a neutral observer - after watching CF's disastrous stint as scum in M6, I'd probably lean toward Jorbles, maybe Cuzz.
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Well, I'm checking out for about 24 hours. Tipsy times have started on Friday. Good luck scumhunting, all.
btw - I am going to a brewfest tomorrow. Will try not to play any kickball.
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All right guys - so here's the biggest problem with the Frisk is scum philosophy. Why wouldn't I have claimed guilty on someone? Either on town and go for the win, or as a longer term play - investigate my own teammate and say that he's scum?
Here's what I think happened:
My claim scared Asher and his scummate. Nobody wants to be seen lynching the cop - especially when there was no case (I'M STILL WAITING FOR THIS PEOPLE). Asher semi soft claims - not hard enough to be explicitly outted as liar...
He and his mate know that he looks the scummiest now - and that if they aren't able to drive a lynch against me - he's the backup. My claim was starting to get some traction - so they dropped into the backup plan: the counter claim. Counter claiming cop is harder because you need to know who was and was not jailkept, but claiming doctor still conflicts me - and there's no way to validate his behavior. We've been calling him a n00b for a while, so he is just rolling with it.
The town is already up in a frenzy about me, this just pushes it over the edge. He's going to be in trouble tomorrow, but he has a ~60% (jailkeeper only stops a kill with a hit on either the killer or the target - so 2/5) of winning right now if he takes me out + whatever % chance of winning even he is outed as scum. If we played politely - no lynched and gave another night for jailkeeping and investigation - I think the overall chance of winning is reduced. This play is aggressive, and I like it. Of course - I'm also a believer in going for it on 4th and short in almost every situation.
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Inner break and hen I'll respond to specific questions.
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Rule question to mods: Would a jailkept player give out an investigation result?
Frisk seems to assume no, but it could just as well be yes I think?
@Frisk
Saying ashersky semi-softclaimed is ridiculous. He was dropping hints all day 2.
If ashersky is fakeclaiming, it must have been planned in advance with his team mate. How on earth could the team mate have missed ash not knowing the setup?
Upon claiming, you said town jailkeeper could prove you are what you claim you are. That was a blatant lie. Why did you lie?
All the evidence points to you. You surviving the night, there being a plausible pair for you, ashersky's confusion with the setup and the way you forgot to mention the rolecop-possibility to name the biggest things.
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Rule question to mods: Would a jailkept player give out an investigation result?
- If a Cop or Rolecop investigates Player X; and
- A Jailkeeper jailkeeps Player X that same night; then
- The Cop or Rolecop does receive an investigation result on Player X.
Being jailkept has two, and only two, ramifications: (1) the jailkept player's night action, if any, has no effect; and (2) the jailkept player is protected from death. If you are jailkept, and an investigative role also targets you that night, the investigator WILL get a result.
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Rule question to mods: Would a jailkept player give out an investigation result?
Frisk seems to assume no, but it could just as well be yes I think?
@Frisk
Saying ashersky semi-softclaimed is ridiculous. He was dropping hints all day 2.
If ashersky is fakeclaiming, it must have been planned in advance with his team mate. How on earth could the team mate have missed ash not knowing the setup?
Upon claiming, you said town jailkeeper could prove you are what you claim you are. That was a blatant lie. Why did you lie?
All the evidence points to you. You surviving the night, there being a plausible pair for you, ashersky's confusion with the setup and the way you forgot to mention the rolecop-possibility to name the biggest things.
Didn't consider rolecop possibility until you pointed it out.
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You really think I'd be so careless as to intentionally lie on something verifiably false? Please. Does your significant other know about this hard on you have for me?
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You really think I'd be so careless as to intentionally lie on something verifiably false? Please. Does your significant other know about this hard on you have for me?
If you had no choice? Or hoped the town full of noobs wouldn't realize it?
You are a rational guy. Do you honestly think the case against ashersky is stronger than the case against you? It seems you think we are all fools for thinking you are mafia.
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Mrs frisk is pissed
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The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
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Mrs frisk is pissed
Deadline is next thursday. You don't need to post today if it upsets your family!
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Rule question to mods: Would a jailkept player give out an investigation result?
- If a Cop or Rolecop investigates Player X; and
- A Jailkeeper jailkeeps Player X that same night; then
- The Cop or Rolecop does receive an investigation result on Player X.
Being jailkept has two, and only two, ramifications: (1) the jailkept player's night action, if any, has no effect; and (2) the jailkept player is protected from death. If you are jailkept, and an investigative role also targets you that night, the investigator WILL get a result.
Follow up, just to be sure: if you replace the Jailkeeper portion above with Doctor, the text does not change, correct? A doctored person still gives a result to Cop or Rolecop?
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- If a Cop or Rolecop investigates Player X; and
- A Jailkeeper jailkeeps Player X that same night; then
- The Cop or Rolecop does receive an investigation result on Player X.
Follow up, just to be sure: if you replace the Jailkeeper portion above with Doctor, the text does not change, correct? A doctored person still gives a result to Cop or Rolecop?
Correct.
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Oh-ou, girlfriend called to inform she'll be bringing an afterparty to our place and my computer is in our living room so won't be finishing the re-read today. Don't particularly want to be the guy who reviews a mafia thread on a saturday night when people drink around him, so I'll just head to sleep. Before that I'll make sure to tell her about the hard on I got for a certain captain though! Got to keep the relationship honest.
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Oh-ou, girlfriend called to inform she'll be bringing an afterparty to our place and my computer is in our living room so won't be finishing the re-read today. Don't particularly want to be the guy who reviews a mafia thread on a saturday night when people drink around him, so I'll just head to sleep. Before that I'll make sure to tell her about the hard on I got for a certain captain though! Got to keep the relationship honest.
:) Sorry to both you and Volt for getting angry. I'm still having fun - I've learned quite a bit. Misreading people as noob cleared PPS in my mind when he voted no lynch, and I think Asher's play here is brilliant. Surely - now I can understand people believing Asher vs. Me, but it's frustrating to know that at least one of you and Volt are town, and yet you guys have been after me well before there was anything resembling a case. (Still waiting for this btw)
Also - sorry for not knowing what JK does. According to mafiascum, I thought the jailkeeper acted as the alien variant. I guess that means I was kept the first night, and that Jorbles may have been jailkept last night. (Does that mean people now think that I both rolecopped AND killed last night?!?)
As for the specifics of believing Asher vs. me, if he had claimed immediately - then sure - then I'd say sure - lynch me hands down. But after he had a night to review - i think preparing a full on n00b defense is at least somewhat plausible. Clearly his soft claims weren't that obvious, since we almost lynched him anyway. I don't think that the claim was planned prior to day 2, i think that the generic "oh crap don't lynch me!!!!" was hoping to avoid needing to name a specific claim so he could get back and confer with his scum buddy. Maybe it would hold someone back who thought he might be the jailkeeper?
Mafia knows the correct play for town here is to no lynch, and with a cop in play this is bad for them. This play by ash prevents the no lynch, and has a decent chance of winning. Ash already had a credible "noob" baseline - and was already viewed as scummy - so losing him wouldn't be the end of the world (he would have been your #1 suspect today if I had flipped town yesterday?) - and his scrambling near the deadline can be interpreted as a softclaim.
As for not posting - I really feel the pressure to do so because Volt has said he's willing to lynch without further discussion. Since lynching me is probably only marginally better than lynching the jailkeeper - I'm obviously very much opposed to it.
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What you are suggesting would require quite complex planning and would generally be very very high level mafia play. Who of us would be capable of making a plan that devious? I know it would certainly be completely beyond me at least. Ashersky-Cuzz is the most suggested mafia team if you are the cop. Now PPS has taught us not to underestimate new players but.. That would be quite something from two first timers? And also, how could a team plan something like that but fail to notice ashersky doesn't know the setup?
By the way, I'm wondering if Frisk could be faking getting upset as a mafia ploy. I think he knows I tend to think strong emotion is a town tell.. But nah, I don't think he'd do that. Sorry for getting you riled up, I do try to see both sides and give you a fair chance of proving your innocence.
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He and his mate know that he looks the scummiest now - and that if they aren't able to drive a lynch against me - he's the backup. My claim was starting to get some traction - so they dropped into the backup plan: the counter claim. Counter claiming cop is harder because you need to know who was and was not jailkept, but claiming doctor still conflicts me - and there's no way to validate his behavior. We've been calling him a n00b for a while, so he is just rolling with it.
If ashersky is fakeclaiming, it must have been planned in advance with his team mate. How on earth could the team mate have missed ash not knowing the setup?
Just a note to respond to Frisk. If my doctor claim was false, and therefore pre-planned, why did I admit to protecting you of all people on N2? Wouldn't a mafia team have chosen anyone else that didn't die if they planned on going for you on D3? A lying doctor could choose any townish survivor and have claimed to have targeted them.
I am not lying about any of this, and it is too outrageous to be mafia meta play. We don't know yet who your partner is, but we will figure it out on D4.
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Admitting to doctoring me is extra confirmation of your faked poor play
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All right guys - so here's the biggest problem with the Frisk is scum philosophy. Why wouldn't I have claimed guilty on someone? Either on town and go for the win, or as a longer term play - investigate my own teammate and say that he's scum?
Am I missing something? How is this not obvious? You saying Jorbles is innocent makes perfect sense if he's scum as well.
There's no point fakeclaiming cop unless you expect people to believe you. That's the general purpose of a lie, to convince people of a falsehood. If we do believe you, once you've then tricked the town into confirming you as town, your scumbuddy rides along for free, and we're guaranteed not to lynch scum.
Nothing Frisk has said has changed my mind in the slightest. He's resorting to bullying and intimidation at this point (to use some of the nicer words that apply). Complaining about the case or lack thereof on him yesterday is distracting and completely moot. There is a case now and it's pretty damn good.
At least he's trying to string together long analysis posts; he won't go down without a fight. Jorbles is barely keeping his head above water while the cases on him and Frisk build, and he's not saying much of anything.
Eevee, your recent post confuses me as well, and I'm having real trouble following your logic. If it's true that your girlfriend was bringing a party back to your place, how does this lead to the conclusion that going to sleep is the correct play here? Surely you would have considered joining the party as a viable option. This type of play strikes me as highly suspicious. Talk about not sharing my win condition.
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16 hours without a new post? Sounds like time to vote. We need two more on Frisk. What say you Cuzz, Eevee, and Voltaire? I know some of you were willing.
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wont get a post in today (parteyyy). i would want to review day 3 still. cant obv stop you from voting but i wont before ive finished my reread.
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Couple of questions too (haven't started reading yet btw).
Frisk, what will your flip teach us? Assuming you still claim town, you should say something like "well you will learn this and should do this.."
Jorbles, your thoughts on the Frisk lynch?
I think the Frisk lynch is a good idea, but I think lynching me tomorrow is a bad idea. I think what happened is that Cuzz came up with an incorrect, but plausible theory and Volt and Eevee are jumping onto it. One of them because it'll help them win (Eevee) and one of them because they have a bad read on me (Voltaire).
So if you think Frisk is the town cop...you're willing to lynch him? Why?
You think it's Eevee/ashersky, then?
I don't think this at all! I think it's Frisk/Eevee!
All right guys - so here's the biggest problem with the Frisk is scum philosophy. Why wouldn't I have claimed guilty on someone? Either on town and go for the win, or as a longer term play - investigate my own teammate and say that he's scum?
Am I missing something? How is this not obvious? You saying Jorbles is innocent makes perfect sense if he's scum as well.
There's no point fakeclaiming cop unless you expect people to believe you. That's the general purpose of a lie, to convince people of a falsehood. If we do believe you, once you've then tricked the town into confirming you as town, your scumbuddy rides along for free, and we're guaranteed not to lynch scum.
Nothing Frisk has said has changed my mind in the slightest. He's resorting to bullying and intimidation at this point (to use some of the nicer words that apply). Complaining about the case or lack thereof on him yesterday is distracting and completely moot. There is a case now and it's pretty damn good.
At least he's trying to string together long analysis posts; he won't go down without a fight. Jorbles is barely keeping his head above water while the cases on him and Frisk build, and he's not saying much of anything.
Eevee, your recent post confuses me as well, and I'm having real trouble following your logic. If it's true that your girlfriend was bringing a party back to your place, how does this lead to the conclusion that going to sleep is the correct play here? Surely you would have considered joining the party as a viable option. This type of play strikes me as highly suspicious. Talk about not sharing my win condition.
Cuzz, I'm sorry for not posting. It was a Friday night, I had other stuff going on. I would also like to say that even though I think Eevee is scum I think we should allow him to conduct his personal life outside of the game as he sees fit.
I'm sorry that I don't seem to have been able to have convinced you guys of Eevee's guilt, though I've brought my case against him no one really commented on it. Or at least not that I can remember, and if we lose I'm sorry that no one believed me. I will check in tomorrow probably, I too have social obligations.
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I'm sorry that I don't seem to have been able to have convinced you guys of Eevee's guilt, though I've brought my case against him no one really commented on it. Or at least not that I can remember, and if we lose I'm sorry that no one believed me. I will check in tomorrow probably, I too have social obligations.
I am not yet convinced on Frisk's partner--I see both Jorbles and Eevee as possible. How the votes eventually fall will be indicative, too. And we'll have N3 action and all of D4 to figure it out. Keep posting your theories for us, they are useful.
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Jorbles's scumminess is one of the
bigger reasons why I think Frisk has to be lying. Seems almost impossible for him to be town.
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Jorbles's scumminess is one of the
bigger reasons why I think Frisk has to be lying. Seems almost impossible for him to be town.
Convincing people that I am scum is Eevee's best defense.
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Jorbles's scumminess is one of the
bigger reasons why I think Frisk has to be lying. Seems almost impossible for him to be town.
Convincing people that I am scum is Eevee's best defense.
Do you see any scum pair possible without me being part of it?
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Jorbles's scumminess is one of the
bigger reasons why I think Frisk has to be lying. Seems almost impossible for him to be town.
Convincing people that I am scum is Eevee's best defense.
Biggest case against me is driving the ashersky wagon pretty hard throughout the game and now abandoning it? I don't really regret any of it, but I too see how it can be used to paint me in bad light by scum. Jorbles, if you are town (which I currently don't belive) I really think Voltaire almost has to be the last mafia (again assuming Frisk is mafia, which I think is the case). Night actions will tell us so much, and we'll also probably have either a confirmed townie (single jailkeeper claim) or a pick one from two situation tomorrow (if we get competing claims).
No one seems to have anything to say anymore, so I guess I should finish my re-read asap. Sorry for the wait everyone.
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No one seems to have anything to say anymore, so I guess I should finish my re-read asap. Sorry for the wait everyone.
Eevee, anything more to add? I'd say we're ready to move at this point.
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No one seems to have anything to say anymore, so I guess I should finish my re-read asap. Sorry for the wait everyone.
Eevee, anything more to add? I'd say we're ready to move at this point.
Just finished with day 3, nothing noteworthy here really.
This:
Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?
problem got solved though, Geo was killed because they thought he had a power role.
So, I'm ready to Vote: Frisk and take our chances. I feel rather confident about this one, but waiting for the flip will still be such a nailbiter..
I don't mind anyone hammering either, I think we are ready.
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As I think I'll get NK'ed tonight, I wanted to give some final thoughts in case.
I have to believe the scumpartner will be on the lynching wagon to try to salvage any town cred, and possibly could hammer to work that angle.
I think it's either Jorbles or Eevee. Jorbles is the sensible choice, but I worry Eevee is just smart playing us to trust him. Might be worth keeping an eye out on D4 for any signs.
Still possible there's a second PR on town. If so, let's hope he gets some info for D4, either as Cop sniffing a mafia out or a JK keeping someone and the kill still happening. That would at least rule out one person. For example, jailkeep Eevee, I still get NKed, clears Eevee; jailkeep Jorbles, I live, etc. No reason not to reveal roles on D4. Note, I already know who I'm protecting tonight. Clearly I won't reveal, but maybe WIFOM will make mafia try for the other PR...
Otherwise, if I get no other posts in, it was fun and a great first game for me! Sorry for noob play, but I did my best to make up for it today.
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Good point ashersky, better post these lists just in case:
If Frisk flips scum and I die, people I suspect:
Jorbles>Voltaire>Cuzz>ashersky.
If Frisk flips town and I die, people I suspect:
ashersky>Cuzz>Voltaire>Jorbles.
Interesting how they are completely reversed!
And ashersky no worries, as long as Frisk flips scum, this turned out very well for us in the end, good doctoring. Looking forward to playing more games with you. :)
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Vote Count 3-3
Captain_Frisk (3): ashersky, Jorbles, Eevee
Not voting (3): Cuzz, Voltaire, Captain_Frisk
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Deadline is Thursday, September 13 at noon forum time.
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All right, here goes nothing. Vote: Captain_Frisk
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Vote Count 3-4
Captain_Frisk (4): ashersky, Jorbles, Eevee, Cuzz
Not voting (2): Voltaire, Captain_Frisk
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch
{Flavor courtesy of yuma!}
Captain_Frisk's eyes moved quickly back and forth behind his red tinted sun-glasses. Everyone was staring at him. Ashersky said, "Captain_Frisk's claim that he was a Dominion Championship security guard was awfully convenient and I don't believe it. I wonder if he is the cheating murderer!" Jorbles shoved Captain_Frisk, who stumbled to the floor his sun-glasses falling off his face as he did so. "Everyone stop moving," shouted Jorbles. "Look at his glasses!" Captain_Frisk's sun-glasses lay on top of the few remaining Dominion cards that weren't ruined from the water spill earlier. Eevee bent down and pointed saying, "Look at how his glasses see some of these Dominion cards, some of them are glowing on the back side!" Cuzz joined him in the investigation and rifled through the cards. "Yes and look the only cards that are glowing are Gold and Platinum treasures! He must have been planning on using the glasses to help know what cards would be next in his deck and what cards his opponents had in their hands!"
And with that evidence, the town surrounded Captain_Frisk calling him all sorts of unmentionable names. Together they used a curtain from the window and a surprisingly strong curtain rod to lynch and hang the Captain. Once he was dead, Ashersky noticed a letter had fallen out of his pocket. It was post-marked from Milan and read "To my scummy Turkish friend, I believe we have a mutual problem that needs eliminating. With your help I'll bring the X to DXV." It was a pretty corny letter. Only a mafia could have written it, and so only a mafia could have received it.
Day 3 Ends. Captain_Frisk, Mafia Rolecop, has been lynched.
Night 3 has begun. Night actions are due in 48 hours, i.e., by Wednesday, September 12, 2:00 a.m. EDT. If all night actions are received prior to the deadline, Day 4 may start early. Please send PMs to both me and yuma - thanks.
THREAD LOCKED.
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Flavor has been added, courtesy of yuma!
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Oh, and Day 3 if over. The transgressors of yesterday's lock can no remove their text of shame if they so wish. If you wish to keep it because you are proud of your bad behavior, well then you are just sick...
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Morning broke. Birds chirped. Children sang. The aroma of baked goods wafted into the room. Fresh coffee was poured, orange juice for some. Muffins, biscuits, bagels, cereal, oatmeal! Even those Belgium waffles that you have to make yourselves but you always burn your hands on--except no one burned there hands this time! It was the perfect continental breakfast. Where did it come from? There is no way of knowing. But you all enjoyed it so much that you forgot to look for another dead body. Strange. There wasn't one.
No one died last night.
Day 4 Starts
Vote Count 4-1
Not Voting (5): Eevee, Jorbles, Cuzz, ashersky, Voltaire
With five alive it takes three to lynch.
Deadline for day 4 is Tuesday, September 18 at noon forum time.
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Yayyy! We win!
I am the jailkeeper. I jailed Jorbles
Vote: Jorbles
There is five of us alive, so even if you don't believe me, you can lynch me now, then Jorbles kills ashersky and cuzz and Voltaire can lynch Jorbles tomorrow.
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Only way Jorbles could be town would be if Voltaire was the last mafia and deducted Jorb would be jailkept and decided to kill him or no kill to have this scenario occur. But does not seem likely at all. I think cuzz nailed it yesterday!
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Blergh I guess I should have waited if anyone fake-claims before announcing that. Claiming early just seemed to be the surest way to be believed.. But now I realize I don't need to be believed, I just need to know who the last mafia is for us to win 100%. Well I'd say it's Jorbles 95% of the time so it likely won't matter.
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Yay! You guys moved without me on Frisk but I was very happy to see it, obviously.
PE Eevee: I thought so, you clever little normal-type.
Give me a moment to work out in my head that it's ok to vote and I will.
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Vote: Jorbles
I've been pretty sure of this for a while. Not in MyLo anymore anyway.
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Everyone cool with me being the hammer?
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Boo, you guys got me. My only chance was if I could kill the JK last night. gg
[Vote: Jorbles]
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STOLE THE HAMMER!
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YESSSS! Also shortest day ever?
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Haha that was awesome.
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STOLE THE HAMMER!
Awwww! Good game, though.
I feel incredibly clever for tunneling Frisk. I probably won't be so good in the rest of my games.
Great play Eevee, I was especially impressed by you.
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YESSSS! Also shortest day ever?
Probably?
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I wanted to kill Eevee a couple times, but Frisk kept talking me out of it. Also your super quick unvote on Frisk WAS a tell.
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Robz888 we have avenged you!!!!!!!
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Robz888 we have avenged you!!!!!!!
Oh, and Geo, great play as well, Eevee already gave you props for it but I want to bring it up again. Wonderful town play.
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STOLE THE HAMMER!
Awwww! Good game, though.
I feel incredibly clever for tunneling Frisk. I probably won't be so good in the rest of my games.
Great play Eevee, I was especially impressed by you.
Almost getting ashersky the doctor lynched was less than glorious though. His flip would have caught Frisk though, so I guess we would have one with one less townie alive either way.
I can't thank Geo enough for sucking in the kill that one night btw. He played an excellent game too!
I like to think I would have unvoted on any claim just to think everything through, but maybe it was a tall still. Can't really blame Frisk for wanting me alive in the end game with my history, glad it worked out for town this time.
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Jorbles stumbled out of bed. His eyes still foggy from the night before. As he rubbed his eyes, he realized that everyone was looking at him menacingly. He knew he was in for it. His Italian mother would be so disappointed. Now it would be up to his younger brother Forbles to continue the family Mafia legacy. Eevee and Cuzz grabbed the Belgium waffle maker and raised it above Jorbles head. "Here guys, let me make this a bit easier for you," Jorbles said as he knelt on the ground. "Don't want you to strain your arms carrying the heavy appliance." And with that they hit Jorbles on the head and he died down dead (another death rhyme! Gah!)
Jorbles is dead he was a Mafia Goon
Town Wins!
As he slumped to the ground, ashersky said "hey guys I have the new Dominion To-Go set. (It is a ful set at about half the size!) We should use it to determine who is now the National Champion. Voltaire was the first player, but over bought attack cards and got bogged down. Cuzz was second player and bought Sea Hag and Witch to send out curses, but never got around to buying a trasher. Eevee was third player and used an elegant engine using Tactician and Moat!? ashersky was fourth and, well just bought treasures all game...
And so after much ado, 6 deaths, Eevee, also known as Javier, the French Jailkeeper was declared as the Dominion National Champion!
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I wanted to kill Eevee a couple times, but Frisk kept talking me out of it. Also your super quick unvote on Frisk WAS a tell.
Honestly though we didn't really have you pegged as a PR. Here's what our actions were:
Night 1
Frisk investigates GeoLib.
Jorbles kills O.
Night 2
Frisk investigates Jorbles (to make sure I wasn't Jailkept)
Frisk kills GeoLib.
Night 3
Jorbles kills Voltaire (I had a crazy theory that Morgrim's early play might be to hide that he was a PR, I thought it was a longshot, but if the JK was Cuzz or Eevee they would JK me for sure so it wouldn't matter.)
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lol three typos, -though, tell not tall, WON the game with one less townie alive.
The meta Morgrim left us with kind of screwed mafia over. That and never hitting the power roles. Jailkeeper is ridiculously strong when there is only one mafia left.
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Eevee played a really good game... not perfect. He jailkept the opposite mafia member performing the kill the first two nights, which voltgloss and I thought was pretty funny....
oh and link to the quicktopic is http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/76GjhF9f2nRg
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Bravo everyone. This was a fascinating game.
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Huge thanks for yuma and Volt for running this, was a really fun game. I'm glad I got in.
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The mafia's QT is here: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/R7xYCmxmLe3
And the mods' QT is here: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/R5jFMNAuFpGi
A word of advice Robz: next time you are in a game with a lot of new players, don't open the game by suggesting that lynching a newbie is better than lynching a veteran. :)
Between this and M-VII, that's twice now that newbies have schooled veterans - once as Town, once as Mafia. Have we been doing it wrong all along??
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Wow, Galz nailed that you were JK Eevee way back in D1. On the other hand he thought I was doctor. lol
[crossposted in the QT]
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Sorry Jorbles.
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And then he thought you were scum so actually his reads were pretty terrible.
Sorry Jorbles.
Ha, no worries. Ashersky's play was ummm so terrible we couldn't have predicted it happening. It's too bad we didn't lynch him d2 though. I would have had a decent chance if all everyone was doing was arguing for your lynch on d3.
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Wow, Galz nailed that you were JK Eevee way back in D1. On the other hand he thought I was doctor. lol
[crossposted in the QT]
Nah, anything I ever called correctly was in jest. My reads were teeeeeerible. I was hoping for better success not being in the game. Ah well. Maybe next time.
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I did learn alot. I really wish that Ash was my scum mate. He would have been cleared FOREVER.
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Yeah - my cop claim was total BS. My goal was to out the PRs for Jorbles. When no-one claimed and everyone seemed to buy it i was super psyched.
I was phone posting from the grocery store when Asher started asking questions about what if he could disprove it... and I knew i was in deep trouble.
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This was a ton of fun guys. I'm really glad I got in on these games, and mega thanks to yuma and Volt for organizing.
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I would have believed Captain Frisk over Ashe, so good thing I was dead.
Eevee gets the Gold Star! Good job not messing up the ending this time, buddy!
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Hahahahahaha that QT was super entertaining. Oh boy, glad they killed the veterans now. :D
Galz, the reason I wrote longer posts and tried to take a bigger role was that this game was super interesting and fun and felt I had a pretty good grasp on what was happening. It was also short enough to be re-read, seems I can't do any analysis without re-reading full days. And I wasn't in 7 games at once because I finally started dying in some so I had more time to focus in this. I also have more experience and confidence and stuff now, bot enough to post walls of text as scum I would imagine, so don't think your theory was very good even in a vacuum.
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I would have believed Captain Frisk over Ashe, so good thing I was dead.
Eevee gets the Gold Star! Good job not messing up the ending this time, buddy!
Thanks! Appreciated!
Interesting how all the veterans in the QT would have believed Frisk over ashersky, but in the game the entire town got it right. Frisk's story was full of holes he couldn't explain, ashersky would have needed to do something scum never does to be lying.
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Hahahahahaha that QT was super entertaining. Oh boy, glad they killed the veterans now. :D
Galz, the reason I wrote longer posts and tried to take a bigger role was that this game was super interesting and fun and felt I had a pretty good grasp on what was happening. It was also short enough to be re-read, seems I can't do any analysis without re-reading full days. And I wasn't in 7 games at once because I finally started dying in some so I had more time to focus in this. I also have more experience and confidence and stuff now, bot enough to post walls of text as scum I would imagine, so don't think your theory was very good even in a vacuum.
Posting walls of text as scum is really not that hard. Personally I find it easily 10x harder to do so as town when there's no conviction to bias my thoughts with. As scum I can make crap up and never be wrong, so spinning out essays is cake.
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I would have believed Captain Frisk over Ashe, so good thing I was dead.
Eevee gets the Gold Star! Good job not messing up the ending this time, buddy!
Thanks! Appreciated!
Interesting how all the veterans in the QT would have believed Frisk over ashersky, but in the game the entire town got it right. Frisk's story was full of holes he couldn't explain, ashersky would have needed to do something scum never does to be lying.
Of course I can't explain them... the fact that I got a no lynch out of it was a miracle.
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I would have believed Captain Frisk over Ashe, so good thing I was dead.
Eevee gets the Gold Star! Good job not messing up the ending this time, buddy!
Thanks! Appreciated!
Interesting how all the veterans in the QT would have believed Frisk over ashersky, but in the game the entire town got it right. Frisk's story was full of holes he couldn't explain, ashersky would have needed to do something scum never does to be lying.
Of course I can't explain them... the fact that I got a no lynch out of it was a miracle.
It was my terrible misfortune that I had to wait so close to the deadline to post.
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Eevee if you were the JK why were you so sure jorbles was scum and not that scum had tried to kill jorbles
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Eevee if you were the JK why were you so sure jorbles was scum and not that scum had tried to kill jorbles
Because Jorbles was pinned as scum yesterday, so no sensible mafia would ever kill him. I don't know if you read yestergameday, but we basically ruled out any other scum pair.
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Eevee if you were the JK why were you so sure jorbles was scum and not that scum had tried to kill jorbles
Did you notice how everyone believed without even waiting for a counterclaim? That's why.
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Eevee if you were the JK why were you so sure jorbles was scum and not that scum had tried to kill jorbles
Did you notice how everyone believed without even waiting for a counterclaim? That's why.
I considered counterclaiming, but in the end it wouldn't have mattered. If it had worked I would have gotten Eevee killed and then everyone would have lynched me tomorrow.
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Reading the spectator QT is fascinating. I had no idea that people not in the game would follow so closely. I'm all self-conscious now.
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Reading the spectator QT is fascinating. I had no idea that people not in the game would follow so closely. I'm all self-conscious now.
All part of the experience. And you acquitted yourself really well! Both yuma and I were duly impressed at how insicisively you cut through to the truth on Day 3.
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Reading the spectator QT is fascinating. I had no idea that people not in the game would follow so closely. I'm all self-conscious now.
All part of the experience. And you acquitted yourself really well! Both yuma and I were duly impressed at how insicisively you cut through to the truth on Day 3.
Aw shucks.
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Man, I missed all the fun.
Congrats to all and sorry for bad play, although it worked out in the end. I am afraid to read the spectator QT now...
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Man, I missed all the fun.
Congrats to all and sorry for bad play, although it worked out in the end. I am afraid to read the spectator QT now...
Don't be!
Honestly, stirring the pot can still be pretty good town play. It gets everyone on the record about stuff. Even though it was Frisk who first brought up the idea you might just be a new/hyper town player, he put the thought in my head and you started looking very town to me. Then I latched onto Frisk and thought you were his partner...but then you and Frisk got into that great fight/counterclaiming (sort of), and it all worked out in the end.
...except for that part where we almost quicklynched the doctor.
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Man, I missed all the fun.
Congrats to all and sorry for bad play, although it worked out in the end. I am afraid to read the spectator QT now...
Don't be!
Honestly, stirring the pot can still be pretty good town play. It gets everyone on the record about stuff. Even though it was Frisk who first brought up the idea you might just be a new/hyper town player, he put the thought in my head and you started looking very town to me. Then I latched onto Frisk and thought you were his partner...but then you and Frisk got into that great fight/counterclaiming (sort of), and it all worked out in the end.
...except for that part where we almost quicklynched the doctor.
To be honest, I did consciously try not to seem too town, so hopefully mafia would see me as not a PR and/or a viable day lynch so they wouldn't NK me. Clearly I did terribly at protecting folks, though.
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Man, I missed all the fun.
Congrats to all and sorry for bad play, although it worked out in the end. I am afraid to read the spectator QT now...
Don't be!
Honestly, stirring the pot can still be pretty good town play. It gets everyone on the record about stuff. Even though it was Frisk who first brought up the idea you might just be a new/hyper town player, he put the thought in my head and you started looking very town to me. Then I latched onto Frisk and thought you were his partner...but then you and Frisk got into that great fight/counterclaiming (sort of), and it all worked out in the end.
...except for that part where we almost quicklynched the doctor.
It absolutely kills me that I probably could quietly agreed with everyone who thought Asher was scummy - instead of defending him and using his "obvtown"edness to paint Geolib as scummy.
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Yay town! Good job everyone, and I think it was probably for the best that I was NKed when I was. I had just started getting pretty busy: I think the no-lynch on D2 was largely my fault, though of course if I had been around a little more we might've quick-lynched the doctor...
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Yay town! Good job everyone, and I think it was probably for the best that I was NKed when I was. I had just started getting pretty busy: I think the no-lynch on D2 was largely my fault, though of course if I had been around a little more we might've quick-lynched the doctor...
We definitely would have if I had been in front of a computer!
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I love this advice from Frisk in the mafia QT:
'm no expert player either. Don't play up ima noob too much, it doesn't really fly because the game just isn't that complicated. I would say that day 1 bussing would generally be a bad idea, but if it needs to be done, go ahead. Careful with voting for me without much reason, you never know what will set town off.
If only he knew, playing up super newb works!
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I love this advice from Frisk in the mafia QT:
'm no expert player either. Don't play up ima noob too much, it doesn't really fly because the game just isn't that complicated. I would say that day 1 bussing would generally be a bad idea, but if it needs to be done, go ahead. Careful with voting for me without much reason, you never know what will set town off.
If only he knew, playing up super newb works!
But it almost got you killed!
Honestly, I think everyone is right. It's almost like this game is like Dominion - every strategy (card) is good in the right game (board).
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I love this advice from Frisk in the mafia QT:
'm no expert player either. Don't play up ima noob too much, it doesn't really fly because the game just isn't that complicated. I would say that day 1 bussing would generally be a bad idea, but if it needs to be done, go ahead. Careful with voting for me without much reason, you never know what will set town off.
If only he knew, playing up super newb works!
But it almost got you killed!
Honestly, I think everyone is right. It's almost like this game is like Dominion - every strategy (card) is good in the right game (board).
Inb4 Robz Scout's.