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[Robz888]

Well, blah. I just have no idea whether that's sincere or not. Yuma is a smart guy. Could he have planned this all game? Sure. Did he? I really have no idea.

I know there's scum amongst one of the three of you, but there are good reasons not to suspect two of you, and the third is cleared by a cop.

[yuma]

Let me just throw this out there... is there a good reason NOT to No Lynch?

Because, if we do, well, scum probably kills liopoil. But what if scum doesn't? What if scum shoots me, or jimm, or yuma, thereby eliminating a suspect?

The reason I suggest this is because no matter which way you slice it, scum has done things that make no sense to us. So maybe they will end up not shooting liopoil out of some convoluted logic we don't understand. Won't this make things easier for us, then, in choosing scum?

I can see liopoil not liking this plan, but whatever, we can promise to weigh his opinion tomorrow. We can promise even to lynch the person he instructs us to lynch.

Can someone propose a reason why this would be bad for us?

I guess I am not super opposed to nolynching today. I think ehunt (our resident theory master) would generally argue in favor of it (I think). But lio being an IC does throw a wrench into everything... which is why I haven't really suggested it.

But I guess my question is what is to be gained? You mention that we might be able to gleam something from the action that scum would do during the night? I suppose it might make it easier, but it might also make it harder as well. I think the coin flips both ways.

I can't remember what blitz game it was where that happened... I think one with SFS right? If I remember he killed off someone that wasn't IC instead of Dsell. And I think that was also the game scum won due to a rules violation, so maybe the results aren't clear from that. Robz do you remember that game? Do you think it has implications for us here?

[Robz888]

Yuma: I remember that game, but I don't think it involved a No Lynch at LYLO. Just a rules violation resulting in scum win.

The situation we are currently in happened during Mafia VIII. We had, uh, O/me/Galzria/Insomniac/theorel/Yuma still alive. O and me were scum. You, yuma, were confirmed town because you were a vigilante that shot the IC Eevee during the night (thanks!). We knew there were 2 scum left, so we knew that we could No Lynch, likely lose yuma, and continue on the next day if need be. I came out against No Lynching at first, because I was scum and thought maybe I could suck up to you, yuma, since you were likely the one who was going to die.

Ultimately, Galz didn't hammer me in time, so we No Lynched by default. O and me shot yuma. The next day, I got lynched. Ultimately, scum O won it for us, but I don't remember which townies were at fault.

So, No Lynching didn't hurt the town, since they ended up just following through on the same lynch, me.

[liopoil]

I think it really depends. Regardless, we should decide who we are going to lynch today. talking about no lynch now is pointless. I will likely support it.

I don't think Yuma could fake that. I mean, if I tried something like that I'd probably forget and spell it correctly a few times. It seems unlikely he wouldn't know that if he himself was maquis. besides, it was unlikely that he was maquis anyway, because of the glooble thing.

[liopoil]

The situation we are currently in happened during Mafia VIII. We had, uh, O/me/Galzria/Insomniac/theorel/Yuma still alive. O and me were scum.

That's not the same situation, there's two scum in that case! however, that is the situation we were in yesterday if you are the last MU.

[yuma]

Yuma: I remember that game, but I don't think it involved a No Lynch at LYLO. Just a rules violation resulting in scum win.

Right I was mostly referring to the fact that during that night scum had a chance to kill of the IC in Dsell but didn't. It was a weird WIFOM choice that threw everyone off guard. What I was wondering is if that choice by SFS to not kill Dsell helped town in scum hunting or if it made it harder. I guess the problem is we can't know because the game ended not by town making the wrong choice, but rather by town violating a rule.

[Robz888]

Well, to state the obvious, it looks like you guys have clearly settled on me. Which is unfortunate, because we're going to lose if you lynch me. I don't really blame you all, because this is a very tough call and there is good info for and against all of us, and it may even be true that form your perspective, my lynch has the most going for it. However, it is the wrong lynch.

Now, I have made up my mind on who I think the scum is. I spent all night thinking about it. I'm far from positive, but oh well. But anyway, I'd really rather not say, if we are going to No Lynch, because I don't want to impact the scum's kill. Does that make sense?

So, I will Vote: No Lynch, anyway. I am happy to continue discussing things of course, but you all seem to be settling on me, and have I mostly stated over and over again why it's not me, and my suspicions on others. I'm not trying to rush things, obviously.

[liopoil]

robz, Yuma is the only one who is decided, and that's because he doesn't have to consider the possibility of himself being scum. I have gone back and forth between you and Yuma many times. We should be discussing the cases on robz and Yuma (and Jimmmmm if that's who robz decided is scum). Whether or not we should no lynch depends on what people's reads are. you all should be re-reading, making cases, and commenting on cases. not much has been said of my analysis of Jimmmmmm and incomplete analysis of Robz.

back to work on my robz analysis.

[Robz888]

Maybe it's just my perception, but I feel like you reject or disagree with everything I say.

[Robz888]

As I've said, I think because of balance issues and ashersky dying, we have to be looking for a maquis. But neither yuma or Jimm are very good fits to be partnered to Glooble and Munch, and liopoil is an IC.

[Robz888]

Well, Jimm fits the profile better than yuma.

[liopoil]

Continued again...

I mean the big thing holding me back on you (and Eevee) is your high post counts.

He said similar things about his top suspects being top contributers. I thought this was towny for pointing this out to everyone, which it is. but then I realized that he could also be emphasizing the importance on contribution because he is also at the top of the post counts.

To me, Mcmc isn't giving off any of the slightly obvious scumtells that he gave off in Blitz9 (at the time, I thought they were too obvious to be scummy--I know, I know, obvious play is obvious, I suck). So I actually see him as playing one sort of game his first time around, as scum, and now to me at least his play looks much different.

I mean, I caught him saying all sorts of things like "I don't want to seem like I'm doing X" in Blitz9, which I said (I did say it in that thread) were scumtells. Of course he could simply be improving as scum, or his partners telling him not to say those things (and I guess I sort of told him not to say those things in Blitz9), but in a vacuum at least his play is believably different.

Additionally, he's answering questions, giving reads, posting, etc. No, I think those things would be hard for him to do--perhaps triggering the sort of cluelessness Jimm is talking about--if he were scum, Galzria's points about M-III notwithstanding.

Defends mcmc. From my perspective I was scum with him in newbie mafia and I think his play here was somewhat similar to his play in newbie mafia, so I don't agree with the meta argument. also robz has said he wouldn't be using meta arguments as much this game.

@Galz, while it seems to me that we've been reading this really differently, too, if your top 4 are Mcmc, Jimm, shraeye, and Cuzz... we aren't so different after all. I'm unpersuaded on Mcmc, in the middle on shraeye, suspicious of Jimm, and if this defensive thing turns out be accurate, also suspicious of Cuzz.

The big thing we disagree on is Eevee. (Because I'm trying to read him, whereas you are trying to buddy him for auto-towncred in his eyes. Don't even try to deny it.)

He's responding to a big post by galz. interestingly galz lists mcmc in his would-lynch thing. Anyway, they seem to disagree a fair bit, especially on eevee. Robz being a partner with galz+mcmc doesn't seem so fitting anymore.

Oh, good catch, I glossed right over that. Vote: Mcmcsalot

If mcmc is his partner him "glossing" over it makes sense. Sounds like he wants to get on the wagon early. Could also be interpreted as towny. Worth note at least.

Glooble is scummy and not super helpful but his defense was really genuine so I actually do think he's town, strangely enough. So, big townread there for now. Jimm is in the townzone for doing so much hard work, and at this stage of the game, I have to take that as indication of a town player. Galzria is on the scummier side for being like a complete non-factor this day. Mcmcsalot looks worse as the day goes on, but he wouldn't be my top choice. I think I have to trust my initial read on him for now.

Still only slight scumreads on the two MU, which is the safest position for him if he's scum. wrong about glooble. Seems like he flipped sides on Jimmmmm.

And yet...Cuzz is still unlynchable.

No he's not.

Vote: Cuzz

this is essentially the hammer, because ash stated intent to hammer as soon as he was at L-1, for whatever reason. Robz doesn't really explain this, but it was probably just to get a lynch through. Galz is also on-wagon, mcmc is not. munch munch and glooble are too. robz was also on the shraeye quickwagon.

Cuzz (8): Galzria, TheMunch, shraeye, Glooble, liopoil, raerae, Robz888, ashersky
Jimmmmm (1): mcmcsalot
shraeye (4): Jimmmmm, Eevee, yuma, Cuzz


Not Voting (2): Dsell, theorel

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch
Cuzz has been lynched. He was Dr. Julian Bashir, Station-Aligned Changeling Cop.

End of D1.

[liopoil]

raerae has been nightkilled. She was Station-aligned Neighbor Quark.
Galzria has been nightkilled. He was Mirror-Universe-Aligned Rolecop Odo.

So we've always assumed that MU killed raerae and Maquis killed Galzria. I don't think it's safe to do that anymore. Eevee could have shot galzria, which makes sense because he had a scum read on him. We probably should have given eevee a chance to claim D2 . If eevee shot galz then Maquis could have shot theorel or raerae. they could also have been jailkept or roleblocked by MU. Scum!yuma could also potentially have a role that kills. Regardless, it seems MU killed raerae. I'm a bit confused by this.

[Jimmmmm]

Well, Jimm fits the profile better than yuma.

If you think I'm scum, you have to come up with a way that ash survived Night 4. I think even objectively that's a ridiculously unlikely scenario.

[Robz888]

Well, Jimm fits the profile better than yuma.

If you think I'm scum, you have to come up with a way that ash survived Night 4. I think even objectively that's a ridiculously unlikely scenario.

No matter who I think it is, I have to reconcile it with a bunch of ridiculous implausibilities.

[liopoil]

Jimmmmm! thoughts on robz/Yuma!?

robz, I think you should tell us who you think is scum and why. You cited not wanting to give scum info when we no lynch, but I think it's more giving them WIFOM. If they NK player X they look bad, but they could say someone is trying to frame them. Or they could lynch player Y to make someone else look bad. Honestly, if we no lynch I'm fairly sure I'm the one that dies regardless.

[Robz888]

Jimmmmm! thoughts on robz/Yuma!?

robz, I think you should tell us who you think is scum and why. You cited not wanting to give scum info when we no lynch, but I think it's more giving them WIFOM. If they NK player X they look bad, but they could say someone is trying to frame them. Or they could lynch player Y to make someone else look bad. Honestly, if we no lynch I'm fairly sure I'm the one that dies regardless.

That would surprise me, because I think you have got to be scum.

It just doesn't make any sense for yuma to be scum, given his record on Munch and Glooble. There's also the fact about the consistent misspelling, which could be a gambit, but is probably more likely not. I guess he could be MU, but I really don't think the last scum is MU, I'm explicitly ruling out the 2 maquis + 3 MU scenario, since I find it the most absurd thing of all.

Jimm's past fits him being scum with Munch and Glooble better, but then his claim was established early, and fits his flavor name, and doesn't make sense as scum.

You, liopoil, fit the scum persona perfectly alongside Munch and Glooble. I was 99% confident you were there partner, until ash cleared you. You must be a godfather. is it a tad ridiculous? Absolutely. Does your scum team seem significantly overpowered? Yes. But of all the things I have to try to reconcile in order to come up with an explanation, it's the least absurd. It's still absurd, but what can I say?

I don't really expect to convince yuma and jimm that we should lynch the IC, though. I've just barely, scarcely convinced myself.

[liopoil]

oh. wow. I happy to no lynch then. But first we decide who to lynch. No putting anyone at L-1 because apparently I might be scum. or you could just put someone at L-1 to prove I'm not scum.

Note that whoever you say is the maquis you still have to explain ashersky not dying N4. If we say someone is MU we have to explain ashersky dying N5.

reading through the earlier days in this game I realize I played fairly badly I think I did better days 4-6.

[liopoil]

hey wait a minute, if I'm godfather, who blocked Yuma?

[Robz888]

Well, you would have to be a godfather and like a 1-shot Jailkeeper. That's sort of the messy part of the explanation.

The cleaner part of the explanation is it explains ashersky not dying Night 4. You know you'll investigate innocent to him, so it's actually better if you leave him alive to clear you.

[liopoil]

everyone in this game has exactly one role.

I'm still going to kill SOMEONE night 4 right?

don't forget neighbor. I have to be a neighbor right? I mean, I copy and pasted lots of stuff from the QT, and do you really believe munch could give me the link? I can copy and paste lots of stuff I said too if you like. And I don't understand why I would fakeclaim that. I could just claim 1-shot jailkeeper or whatever!

[liopoil]

Robz, I understand your confusion. I too am having trouble believing any of you could be scum. there's just sooooo many contradictions. This latest stuff makes me read you townier. also the stuff I saw in my re-read is a bit acquitting.

[Robz888]

everyone in this game has exactly one role.

I'm still going to kill SOMEONE night 4 right?

don't forget neighbor. I have to be a neighbor right? I mean, I copy and pasted lots of stuff from the QT, and do you really believe munch could give me the link? I can copy and paste lots of stuff I said too if you like. And I don't understand why I would fakeclaim that. I could just claim 1-shot jailkeeper or whatever!

Well, everyone in this game doesn't have exactly one role necessarily. Jimm has claimed Beloved Princess and 1-shot Doc, right? I don't know about your neighbor thing, maybe Munch was allowed to put the stuff from that qt into your scum qt.

[Robz888]

Robz, I understand your confusion. I too am having trouble believing any of you could be scum. there's just sooooo many contradictions. This latest stuff makes me read you townier. also the stuff I saw in my re-read is a bit acquitting.

Well, thanks. This is the problem, no matter who we choose, there are things that don't make sense. This feels like one of those games where there are no mafia left, and the mod is just trolling us. But of course Jo wouldn't do that, so... somebody has to be mafia, and have made decisions that may not even make sense.

Like, in the game I moderated, M-XI, Ftl was a the last scum, and he really threw the town off by no killing one night. he thought he had to do it to give himself an alibi, but I'm not actually sure he really did have to not kill, and it confused the hell out of people. So it could just be a situation like that, where scum actually made a possibly sub-optimal move, and it's just leading to huge amounts of confusion. Or, we don't have all the pieces to the puzzle, it actually made sense, I don't know.

[liopoil]

that's because joth gave him another role for balance. surely joth wouldn't give me another role!

yes, but the whole thing? I'm totally willing to post the whole thing minus the things joth said. I'm not allowed to post that. and you didn't address that only one person died N4, or that neighbor is a silly fakeclaim.