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[liopoil]

Okay, I'm gonna try to respond to most of this now.

[liopoil]

Questions for lio:
What happened to your Town read on Glooble?
What was your "solid evidence" that Munch was Town?
Why did you wait until last night to try to kill Dsell?

It went away. I thought he started acting shadier and didn't start posting more like he said he would. He started saying things that I didn't agree with.

My solid evidence that munch was town was that he was in my neighborhood, and we were confirmed not MU to each other. This is much more solid evidence then anything else at the time.

I didn't kill Dsell! munch did. He said this in our neighborhood QT last night, "Dsell has gotten away with way less contribution this game. At least my reads are known for the most part if I die tonight".

[liopoil]

But do you really think scum lio would say that he agrees with pretty much everything that his scumbuddy has said?

I certainly hope I wouldn't! that would be a pretty bad idea, and would be sure to get me lynched after my partner is lynched! hence the current scenario...

[liopoil]

If Liopoil is town, we've all just gotten really unlucky that he's had an unwavering townread on 2 members of a scumteam for the whole game.

First of all, having such an unwavering townread on both of your partners is a really bad idea, and I had a good reason for at least one of them! Munch was my neighbor. If I assume he is town then we can talk freely. If I think he might be scum then our neighborhood isn't worth much. I didn't really help him that much by mistakenly believing that he was town. I only had the townread on glooble D1.

[liopoil]

What's interesting is that if I was Maquis then after raerae died I would just have had two scum QTs, except one without glooble. 

[yuma]

Thinking about this last night I decided that I was thinking a lio lynch was a good thing for the wrong reasons. Look, if lio is scum partners with glooble and themunch--those two are sum veteran scum players! I imagine they would have said something along the lines of "show suspicion on us, bus us early, just act like we aren't your scum buddies" but what we are seeing from Robz and ash is the complete opposite...

Further more we are only looking at posts from lio perspective. This is dangerous. I think we need to look at it from Themunch's and glooble's perspective as well. In just skimming I found this from the munch from the print screen:

Title: Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: TheMunch on January 23, 2013, 01:31:09 pm
"I am 100% against a liopoil lynch."

This quote alone makes me very hesitant to want to vote lio. In fact this quote alone almost seals it for me that I won't be voting for lio. I just don't see Themunch being that blatant about protecting his own scumread. I have seen themunch as scum--I modded over him--and viewed him in Hydra... this isn't themunch's style.

I think we need to look at Robz and Dsell today.

[liopoil]

True, but the serial killer usually gets his own substantial buffing, like investigative immune or one shot immune.

Still very imbalanced...

Lio, this might just be a misunderstanding because this is your first game with us, but the "regular" games strive for balance. This is a regular game.

well, at least one of the following must be true:

"The game has a chance to be imbalanced, and Joth would allow that."
""What Joth said about role being completely independent of alignment was not strictly true."

I see why you guys can not believe that the first one could be true. I also think the first one is not something that is likely to be true. However, I also have trouble believing that the second one could be true, because Joth made it very clear that role was independent of alignment and re-iterated that many times. So I am unsure...

[liopoil]

Title: Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: TheMunch on January 23, 2013, 01:31:09 pm
"I am 100% against a liopoil lynch."

Also note that this WOULD make tons of sense if I am town and a neighbor with munch. HE knew 100% that I had to be town, because he knew that the other team was the MU, and that I wasn't MU, nor his teammate. He also knew that if I was lynched he wouldn't have any townie brain to insert lies into at night.

[ashersky]

Thinking about this last night I decided that I was thinking a lio lynch was a good thing for the wrong reasons. Look, if lio is scum partners with glooble and themunch--those two are sum veteran scum players! I imagine they would have said something along the lines of "show suspicion on us, bus us early, just act like we aren't your scum buddies" but what we are seeing from Robz and ash is the complete opposite...

Further more we are only looking at posts from lio perspective. This is dangerous. I think we need to look at it from Themunch's and glooble's perspective as well. In just skimming I found this from the munch from the print screen:

Title: Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: TheMunch on January 23, 2013, 01:31:09 pm
"I am 100% against a liopoil lynch."

This quote alone makes me very hesitant to want to vote lio. In fact this quote alone almost seals it for me that I won't be voting for lio. I just don't see Themunch being that blatant about protecting his own scumread. I have seen themunch as scum--I modded over him--and viewed him in Hydra... this isn't themunch's style.

I think we need to look at Robz and Dsell today.

I could vote Dsell.  I never bought that station post thing from D1.

Jimmmmm remains an enigma.

Robz has read townie all game.

[ashersky]

Yuma's point seems to be that the case on lio is too good, right?  Like, it shouldn't be so easy.  It's the "no way scum does that, it is too obvious" thing.

Who did Glooble bus?  He pushed cases on me, but I can't be his partner.  Anyone else?  Nothing sticks out.  TheMunch tunneled me, too.  Again, can't be his partner. 

[yuma]

Yuma's point seems to be that the case on lio is too good, right?  Like, it shouldn't be so easy.  It's the "no way scum does that, it is too obvious" thing.

Who did Glooble bus?  He pushed cases on me, but I can't be his partner.  Anyone else?  Nothing sticks out.  TheMunch tunneled me, too.  Again, can't be his partner.

It isn't so much that it is too obvious, but rather than it goes against the meta that i have observed and experienced with themunch.... lio doesn't have a meta right now... but the bill you are trying to get him to fill is also easily explained by newbie town. But really my point has more to do with themunch than with lio.

[ashersky]

Yuma's point seems to be that the case on lio is too good, right?  Like, it shouldn't be so easy.  It's the "no way scum does that, it is too obvious" thing.

Who did Glooble bus?  He pushed cases on me, but I can't be his partner.  Anyone else?  Nothing sticks out.  TheMunch tunneled me, too.  Again, can't be his partner.

It isn't so much that it is too obvious, but rather than it goes against the meta that i have observed and experienced with themunch.... lio doesn't have a meta right now... but the bill you are trying to get him to fill is also easily explained by newbie town. But really my point has more to do with themunch than with lio.

Fair enough.

Munch died with his last vote on Robz.  He was absent for a lot of the game with real life.  Do you think he'd leave his vote on his partner?

[jotheonah]

Civilians have finally started to take the hint and are leaving the station in droves. Pretty soon only a skeleton crew and a few brave civilians remain.

At least most of the Pah-Wraith cultists left on the transports.

Vote Count 4.1

liopoil (3): Robz888, ashersky, Dsell {L-2}
Robz888 (1): liopoil

Not Voting (4): theorel, yuma, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is February 21st at midnight.

 

[mcmcsalot]

I was under the impression I was voting for liopoil, I have had a continuous scum read, the post made recently confirm this to such an extent I don't see how people can disagree. vote: liopoil

One thing I want to mention about yuma's post, while I agree with using peoples scum meta t find them, I don't think bussing/not bussing is reliable. When to buss your partner and when to defend your partner is not a cut and dry thing. It depends so much on how many players are there, how many votes are there on your partner, how legitimate is it to have a strong townread(some games noone is confident of anyone, this game robz and theorel were incredibly strong townreads from everyone D1) so I don't think the argument of scum would have been bussing is very good. In a game like this it is much easier to derail a lynch and use a town read to protect your partner than start bussing.

[yuma]

I was under the impression I was voting for liopoil, I have had a continuous scum read, the post made recently confirm this to such an extent I don't see how people can disagree. vote: liopoil

One thing I want to mention about yuma's post, while I agree with using peoples scum meta t find them, I don't think bussing/not bussing is reliable. When to buss your partner and when to defend your partner is not a cut and dry thing. It depends so much on how many players are there, how many votes are there on your partner, how legitimate is it to have a strong townread(some games noone is confident of anyone, this game robz and theorel were incredibly strong townreads from everyone D1) so I don't think the argument of scum would have been bussing is very good. In a game like this it is much easier to derail a lynch and use a town read to protect your partner than start bussing.

it isn't so much about when to bus. It was the opposite. That themunch had a complete 100% townread on his supposed partner.

I do not support this lynch. vote: dsell

[liopoil]

That is L-1. please do not lynch me without giving me a last chance to say something. being town, everything I have said can be trusted once I have flipped town, so I would like to say some things that hopefully will help town win even after my misslynch.

[liopoil]

okay, so everyone has a townread on robz. I feel like Dsell's first post still caries some weight, and he is confirmed not-maquis. However, apart from that he does seem scummy, especially how he jumped on my wagon today. Also, he does not have a power to help town anymore. (I guess I don't either). Regardless, I know I am town, I do not know if Dsell is town. Therefore he is the better lynch for town from my perspective. Vote: Dsell

Also note that if you don't lynch me today then ashersky can investigate me and confirm my innocence.

[yuma]

Also we really should be waiting for theorel--our confirmed townie, remember him???--to input his thoughts and course of action for the night, although I think we have that pretty much hashed out.

In fact I insist that someone unvote and take lio off L-1 until theorel gets here. Yes, I know me, an unconfirmed townie using the word insist is strong... but really... we need to wait for theorel.

[yuma]

not that there is anyone online to unvote that is voting for lio... Ug. Well as long as Jimmmm doesn't hammer lio I guess we are fine. Jimmmm no hammering until theorel is around and comments on the situation at the least. If theorel wants to hammer lio I guess that is that and there isn't anything that is going to save lio at that point.

[liopoil]

I'm actually rather confident that all of the scum are on my wagon...

[liopoil]

oh wow, he actually gave me an answer! he said that he thought sharing QT links was never allowed in mafia games. He said that he didn't tell munch that he couldn't, but would have told munch he could not do that if he had asked. lastly he said that if munch HAD given his team the link that he would have tried to remove it.

did anyone actually see this? just wondering... yes I realize you can't neccesarily trust this. Do people still think that I'm lying about being a neighbor? I'm trying to understand the case on me. It seems to be mostly just having two townreads on two scum, who were both on the same team.

[jotheonah]

That was quite a flurry of voting. Have another vote count.

Vote Count 4.2

liopoil (4): Robz888, ashersky, Dsell, mcmcsalot {L-1}
Dsell (2): yuma, liopoil


Not Voting (4): theorel, Jimmmmm

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is February 21st at midnight.

[liopoil]

we have until February 21st. That's a long time guys. let's use it. I don't think we really need to worry about what happened D1 happening again.

I don't know about you guys, but in my PM when it said I was Rom it also gave me a link to a star trek site with lots of information on characters. At some point I think I'm going to search what everyone said their flavor name was and see if it matches their role. I know mine does. Rom is a Ferengi, as are Nog and Quark (munch and raerae respectively). In DS9 Nog is my son and Quark is my brother. our QT is called the Ferengi QT.

[Dsell]

But do you really think scum lio would say that he agrees with pretty much everything that his scumbuddy has said?

Newbie scum lio?  Yes.

Well maybe. I'm just concerned that a Newbie scum player would be more likely to try overly hard to disassociate themselves with their partners. But maybe it is really just a case of obvious scum play is obvious.

Newbie scum Lio might agree with everything that his partners are saying...until they are being suspected, at which point he might drop the townread inexplicably...oh look that's what happened.

I do think the case on liopoil is fairly good. On the other hand, I'm also a little worried that we're being played by Robz or ash or both. Interested in more thoughts from theorel.

We are almost certainly being played by Robz or Ash (or Mcmc or yuma) but they would be on the other scum team. They want people from the other scumteam to die. I want people from both scumteams to die, so our interests converge on Liopoil. If Liopoil is the last Maquis, that's one fewer night kill to deal with and that's GOOD.

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmm no hammering until theorel is around and comments on the situation at the least.

Don't worry about that, I'm very interested to see theorel's thoughts on the situation.