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[ashersky]

Well yeah. Obviously we're all expecting that our remaining two Cops got non-X results, otherwise they probably would have claimed by now, and no one's expecting a Cop to claim "Hey look I got a non-X result on so-and-so", unless they're about to be lynched. Ideally our Cops will be alive towards the end of the game so they can compare notes.

Unless the second "team" is SK. 

[Jimmmmm]

Well yeah, obviously if that's the case then we're left with a named VT. But that wouldn't fall under "ideally", at least from the point of view of Cops.

[Jimmmmm]

Had a read of raerae to see if any of her reads could help. They didn't. The only significant read she had was a scum read on me. Null reads on Eevee (and didn't like any of the cases on him) and Munch. I think her clashes with ash were mostly emotion based rather than based on a scum-read. I don't think she ever gave a particular read on him. Would there be any point in her neighbour/s claiming? Probably not, unless she gave a strong read in the neighbourhood QT that she hasn't given in-thread. Of course, that could be manipulated by scum.

[ashersky]

Thought on Jimmmmm: I know a few folks have expressed a scum read on the man, but I think that's coming from him trying to contribute to the game positively.

Like his recent post fishing for the neighbor.  I don't think he was fishing, just thinking things through and offering up ideas.

Town read on Jimmmmm at this point.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, gave Cuzz a read too.

His main Town reads were Dsell, theorel, Robz and myself. I tend to agree with that for the most part.

His main scum reads were Eevee, ash, shraeye, Munch and mcmc. Again, fairly in line with my feelings. He was pushing pretty hard for Eevee at one point, and while I didn't think it made Eevee as scummy as he did, I agreed with much of what he said.
He was also going pretty hard at ash towards the end of the day. I'm not really sure how I feel about ash at this stage, still have to give him a re-read at some point, and look closer at Cuzz' case on him.
I think you know how I feel about shraeye; probably my biggest scum read at the moment.
Not sure about Munch, haven't paid that close attention to him, but will try to develop an opinion of him.
As I've said, mcmc has felt a bit off to me this game, though I'm still not sure if that makes him scum.

Anyway, I think we definitely need to include these 5 in the people who we look closely at today.

[ashersky]

A day 2 post count would be helpful.  I could support a D2 lurker lynch.

[theorel]

Well yeah, obviously if that's the case then we're left with a named VT. But that wouldn't fall under "ideally", at least from the point of view of Cops.

Um...no, we're left with a named unknown alignment.

[Jimmmmm]

Yes, you're right of course.

[theorel]

Alright, let's see if I can figure out what I think on everyone...still hard to keep them all straight.
1. shraeye: still scummy for the way he was pushing Cuzz/Jimmmmm yesterday.  His play today has been less scummy to me, maybe he's backing off because of the heat he took yesterday?  scumScore: 40
2. Eevee: Okay, so yesterday I wasn't willing to accept Galzria's read on him.  Today, I know Galzria has flipped scum, and come to the conclusion that his read here was as genuine as if Galzria had flipped town (since the interactions don't make sense as scum-scum interactions).  I still think Galzria might be mistaken here, but generally I have found Eevee less scummy throughout end-of-day yesterday and today so far.  Add in that I find it unlikely that Eevee is Galzria's partner, and I'm left with a slight town-read.  scumScore: 27
3. Jimmmmm: I didn't find him scummy yesterday.  Given raerae's flip and Galzria's flip, I'm finding him slightly scummier, and in the end he gets a slight scum-read.  scumScore: 33
4. ashersky: I really don't know here.  I dislike his reaction to the "scumslip" thing, which he apparently still doesn't understand.  (since his "oh, I get it" post was still incorrect...NO ONE THINKS YOU ARE GALZRIA'S PARTNER, you can reread my brief "clear" post with that in mind if you actually do want to understand it).  I'm leaning scum here based on his activity, but I understand that that's a pretty common occurrence for him.  I think he may be a player with a completely different mindset/approach to the game generally, which makes him read scummy to me.  Trying to temper my scumread...scumScore: 33
5. Munch: I find it highly unlikely that he's Galzria's partner (I do agree with ash/Robz on the raerae thing).  I had a slight scumread on him yesterday, but now I'm leaning slight town based on that.  scumScore: 28

And I've got to go.  You'll have to wait for the rest.

[liopoil]

interesting nobody has mentioned (until jimmmm's post) raerae and galz's ROLES. Galz's role never mattered because he's dead, but raerae must have neighbor partners. But I think I agree with Jimmmmm that unless claiming would give town lots of helpful info then the neighbors shouldn't claim just yet.

[liopoil]

Also think that Jimmmmm's latest post was station-y.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay just looked up what neighbors are. From what I read shouldn't the remaining neighbors come out seeing as it is likely one is scum. If there are two or more, whichever one is town can come out and say who all the neighbors are. We then check these people out with previouse reasons for being scum.

[mcmcsalot]

Also with raerae dead and being town, the remaining neighbors are less likely to trust eachother making the neighborhood an unreliable unit. So these people bieng known to mafia isn't a terrible thing.

[shraeye]

I think you know how I feel about shraeye; probably my biggest scum read at the moment.

That's a shame, you should change your opinion if you want to be a successful scumhunter.

[shraeye]

interesting nobody has mentioned (until jimmmm's post) raerae and galz's ROLES. Galz's role never mattered because he's dead, but raerae must have neighbor partners. But I think I agree with Jimmmmm that unless claiming would give town lots of helpful info then the neighbors shouldn't claim just yet.

liopoil,

Can you give me your new assessment of Eevee given that Galz flipped scum?  Can you also comment on if there has to be at least one scum in Munch/shraeye?

[Dsell]

I am struggling with multimafia, since it means that some of the people that I am getting really townie vibes from could totally be scumhunting mafia. But anyway, I have town reads on the following people: Theorel, Robz, Mcmc (because of Robz), and Jimmmmm. I agree with Theorel that Jimmmm looks slightly scummier based on the deaths, but I still really think he is town.

Ashersky is looking really weird with this whole situation, but it does seem like something TownAsher might do. So I guess I am actually leaning town there too. And since I have a scumread on Munch, I am going to say that his case on Ashersky was scum scumhunting. It's possible that I'm wrong, but he has given me no reason to think he's townie.

Shraeye seems to be posting a lot without contributing a lot, and that is ScumShraeye, right?

I have very null reads on yuma and liopoil, although liopoil is contributing and doing a great job, gold star for you. I hope he is townie but I do not know. If not for Robz and his strong town read, I would probably also have a null to slight town read on mcmc.

Glooble actually reads town to me, but I know he is pro at scum, so I don't want to give him a pass yet. I may also be able to read him well at some point since I've played scum with him in the past.

I almost put Eevee in the town category. But I think I did have a sliiight scum read on him during part of day 1, and that makes me nervous because I have correctly pinpointed him as scum on day 1, only to turn away from that read later. He is a strong scum player because he always looks so darn townie. Still, I have a very slight and very hesitant town read on him.

[shraeye]

Shraeye seems to be posting a lot without contributing a lot, and that is ScumShraeye, right?

I have very null reads on yuma and liopoil, although liopoil is contributing and doing a great job, gold star for you. I hope he is townie but I do not know.

I'm very interested in this distinction.  Can you say more about how liopoil's contributions are a great job and shraeye's are lacking substance?

[TheMunch]

Okay just looked up what neighbors are. From what I read shouldn't the remaining neighbors come out seeing as it is likely one is scum. If there are two or more, whichever one is town can come out and say who all the neighbors are. We then check these people out with previouse reasons for being scum.

Where does it say this?

[Dsell]

Shraeye seems to be posting a lot without contributing a lot, and that is ScumShraeye, right?

I have very null reads on yuma and liopoil, although liopoil is contributing and doing a great job, gold star for you. I hope he is townie but I do not know.

I'm very interested in this distinction.  Can you say more about how liopoil's contributions are a great job and shraeye's are lacking substance?

I just mean that for a new player, he is being really involved and having his own opinions and generally just playing well, especially for a first time player. I don't think you're playing badly or anything, I just haven't found your contributions particularly compelling or memorable, whereas usually when you're town, you're like at the front of everything and it's impossible to forget your opinions. I guess the real distinction is that I just wanted to give liopoil a pat on the back, which hopefully doesn't sound condescending or too buddyish.

[yuma]

So people who joined the shraeye wagon late yesterday, including me, that was ash, Jimmm, Eevee, Robz, Cuzz (who is dead) as well as theorel, who voted for him earlier... Where all do you stand in regard to shraeye. I think some of you have already answered this...

theorel said: "1. shraeye: still scummy for the way he was pushing Cuzz/Jimmmmm yesterday.  His play today has been less scummy to me, maybe he's backing off because of the heat he took yesterday?  scumScore: 40"

Robz said: "He was largely absent from the end-of-day shenanigans (all things being equal, this is a scumtell). Now, I know he was busy, that's fine. But I really did expect him to express at least some skepticism that Cuzz was the right direction after the cop claim. He did not; his case that he thought was so full-proof remained so, to him.

Additionally, I've said this before, but I can't believe there isn't scum somewhere in the Munschraerae trifecta. We know it's not raerae. Munch is another person I'm watching especially closely. It would surprise me if all three of those people, so in sync, were town.

So if we're looking on wagon, I'm looking at shraeye and Munch. Off-wagon might be a BETTER place to look, but I'm not sure who is quite as scummy as shraeye and Munch there."

Eevee voted shraeye...

Jimmmm said: he would do a reread on shraeye, but instead reread raerae... "I agree that it isn't necessarily a scumslip, but I still think it's a valid argument. I'll have to have another read of shraeye in light of what we now know and then look at whether I want to continue pursuing that." Jimmmm let us know your thoughts once you do a reread.

ashersky, how do you feel about shraeye, you may have already said this but I couldn't find anything specific, although you have had interactions with shraeye today, as I skimmed through today's posts?...

yuma said: "So if I had only this (Galz's reads) to go off, I would be most interested in voting Jimmm or Glooble or possibly shraeye."

And I will say this that even yesterday shraeye wasn't my favorite lynch choice, that would have been Glooble, or perhaps mcmc? But we were at a ridiculous point where Cuzz was the only one with any votes and everyone was like, "Guess we have to lynch Cuzz no one else have any votes," and I had a strong enough town read that a slight scum read lynch was better than a Cuzz lynch. So for today, shraeye probably still isn't my favorite lynch candidate for today. But appears to be the favorite of some others that were on him previously, but only eevee has put a vote down.

[theorel]

I was considering voting him, but decided I would rather sort out my thoughts on everyone first.  (I'll probably finish that this evening).

One note though:

I think you know how I feel about shraeye; probably my biggest scum read at the moment.

That's a shame, you should change your opinion if you want to be a successful scumhunter.

This kind of post reads so scummy to me.  (more-so I think because of O flipping scum in VIII).  It reads to me "I'm going to belittle your opinions in order to make you change them".  It reads manipulative to me, without any real merit.  It's a lot like any emotional appeal, except that it's the sort of manipulation that really rubs me the wrong way.  I'll admit that some of that is personal dislike of this sort of manipulation, but I do think it's fair to attribute a bit of scumminess to these kind of statements.

[yuma]

just found this quote from Glooble:

I have fairly strong townreads on Galz and shraeye at the moment (and obviously myself.) Of course, if you (this is refering to Cuzz) flip town, I will be suspicious of them. But first we need to see a flip."

after Cuzz was lynched, but before thread lock and flip...

This is interesting. (because I am more interested in finding Galz's partner, I am paying more attention to the galz part of this, but the fact that Glooble included shraeye in this is interesting)

1. Assuming here that Glooble is scum and on the scum team with Galz.
2. Neither Glooble nor Galz would know what the alignment of Cuzz was--he very well could have been opposing scum.
3. Glooble expresses a town read on Galz if Cuzz flips scum, but a potential scum read on Galz if Cuzz flips scum.
4. This is a win/win for Glooble!partner with Galz. Because if Cuzz is scum, he can now safely have a town read on his partner that won't be especially scrutinized. But if Cuzz is town, he can start a bussread on his partner, again w/o much scrutiny...

So I guess the question is this: would scum!Glooble express a strong town read on his partner? Now I guess he is actually expressing more of a scum read than a town read. Because from scum!Glooble's perspective, Cuzz was more likely to flip town--as scum!Glooble would know that Cuzz wasn't on a scum team with him, so even though he didn't know Cuzz's alignment, he suspected that Cuzz was perhaps more likely to flip town, so his read while potentially strong town was actually more setup to be a scum read...

I think Galzparner!Glooble could write something like this.

[shraeye]

I just haven't found your contributions particularly compelling or memorable, whereas usually when you're town, you're like at the front of everything and it's impossible to forget your opinions.

Isn't the compelling/memorable part of my contributions (regarding the Cuzz wagon, which I definitely was an instigator of) most of the reason that people are suspecting me today??

It seems that you're giving people here just an extra reason to find me scummy, and that reason rings false, because it seems in direct contradiction to the reasons that other people are having scumreads on me.  It's just that when somebody says
"Shraeye seems to be posting a lot without contributing a lot, and that is ScumShraeye, right?" I think the reaction from people who already see me as scummy is "*nodnod* he ISSS scummy, I'm glad somebody else sees that".

When it should be "hey wait, I'm busy suspecting him because of his scummy contributions and now Dsell is saying that he isn't contributing a lot? "

It just looks like an easy way to fan the flames of a lynch that at this point does seem fairly likely.

In short; FoS: Dsell.

[Eevee]

I was considering voting him, but decided I would rather sort out my thoughts on everyone first.  (I'll probably finish that this evening).

One note though:

I think you know how I feel about shraeye; probably my biggest scum read at the moment.

That's a shame, you should change your opinion if you want to be a successful scumhunter.

This kind of post reads so scummy to me.  (more-so I think because of O flipping scum in VIII).  It reads to me "I'm going to belittle your opinions in order to make you change them".  It reads manipulative to me, without any real merit.  It's a lot like any emotional appeal, except that it's the sort of manipulation that really rubs me the wrong way.  I'll admit that some of that is personal dislike of this sort of manipulation, but I do think it's fair to attribute a bit of scumminess to these kind of statements.

I've found everyone having a townread on theorel very questionable,
but this post convinced me: he just sounds so towny. Townread on theorel.

[Robz888]

Hi guys, I'm sick and my brain is really scrambled right now, but needed to comment on the fact that raerae is a Neighbor, which I glossed over in the Day 2 opening post. Whoever she's neighbors with, they don't know each others' Alignments, so you actually have to be a little bit wary of sharing your info there. We have to consider the possibility--not a likelihood but a definite possibility--that she expressed some opinion in their qt that freaked out a scum, who killed her.