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[ashersky]

I actually disagree with Robz that Munchraeye would take out raerae, if either one of them is scum.  Having her seem scummy, especially after the Cuzz flip, would actually help them, since a few of us at least felt that at least one of the three was scum.  That would have bought him/them a day as we lynched raerae out of the three of them.

This is the scumslip in question.  Nowhere did Robz say that he thought that Munch/Shraeye killed raerae.  I claim that Ashersky jumped to the conclusion that Robz actually did say "one of munch/shraeye killed raerae" because Ashersky is on the not-galz-scumteam and to a member of the not-galz-scumteam the scum they are looking for (galz team) are the ones that killed Raerae.

I'm not claiming that Ashersky killed Raerae.  I'm saying that scum Ashersky is looking for are precisely the scum that killed raerae.  So to Ashersky scum (galz team) is equivalent to "killed raerae".

Man, I hope to EVERYONE IN THE GAME "killed raerae" is equivalent to scum.  Unless you are arguing that town killed raerae?

Yeah, I'm looking for the scum that killed raerae.  The scum that was with Galz, since Galz's team didn't kill Galz.

So in this post, I'm on Galz's team?  Or on raerae's team?  Except raerae isn't scum!!!

[ashersky]

Ah, I looked at this again, and now see that you think Munch is saying "ashersky killed raerae".  He didn't.  I'm still not sure what Munch is saying, but he definitely propositioned that you were on the non-GAlz team and that the non-galz team killed raerae.

But didn't the Galz team kill raerae?  One team killed galz, the other raerae.  Why would the non-galz team kill raerae and the Galz team kill Galz.  That doesn't make any sense.

[ashersky]

No, I am absolutely certain that the scumteam that Galzria was on DID NOT nightkill Galzria.  I'll bet anything on that.

[ashersky]

So Munch's argument is...what? 

What team am I on?  The one with Robz where we decided to kill Galz?  Or the one with Galz where we decided to kill Galz?

[TheMunch]

What I am say is this:

When Robz said "One of Munch and Shraeye are scum,"  Ashersky's response was: "how could that possibly be? Scum killed Raerae."  If Ashersky is on not-Galz-team then the scum that Ashersky is looking for is the same scum that killed Raerae, so they are equivalent.

PPE: Ashersky, to everyone in the game scum killed raerae.  But if you are on a team different from galz, the ONLY scum you are looking for are the scum that killed raerae.

[theorel]

Munch is saying that Ashersky made the illogical jump from scum to killed raerae.  He's arguing that you did this because you're not interested in the scum that didn't kill raerae, because you already know who it is (yourself and team-mate).  This was not an illogical jump, therefore the scumslip is wrong.

[shraeye]

Ah, I looked at this again, and now see that you think Munch is saying "ashersky killed raerae".  He didn't.  I'm still not sure what Munch is saying, but he definitely propositioned that you were on the non-GAlz team and that the non-galz team killed raerae.

But didn't the Galz team kill raerae?  One team killed galz, the other raerae.  Why would the non-galz team kill raerae and the Galz team kill Galz.  That doesn't make any sense.

Aha, now I see I've misunderstood everything.  Retract my statements, let me sort this out again.

[theorel]

I will explain why it is not illogical in a moment...(I intended to include that at the end of previous post)

[ashersky]

Hey guys, I reread the quote that Munch provided, and I think found the scumslip.  Bolded for emphasis.

I actually disagree with Robz that Munchraeye would take out raerae, if either one of them is scum.  Having her seem scummy, especially after the Cuzz flip, would actually help them, since a few of us at least felt that at least one of the three was scum.  Also, I have 0% of flipping town, and my partner Galzria and I developed this amazing new scum gambit where we NK one of us to throw everyone off.  That would have bought him/them a day as we lynched raerae out of the three of them.

[shraeye]

Ashersky, could you please clarify this to me?

You have said that at least one of Munch/raerae/shraeye is scum; clearly it is not raerae.

Do you think that both me/Munch are scum?

Or do you think it is ONLY one of us?

If it is only one of us, is it me or Munch that is scum?

[TheMunch]

Munch is saying that Ashersky made the illogical jump from scum to killed raerae.  He's arguing that you did this because you're not interested in the scum that didn't kill raerae, because you already know who it is (yourself and team-mate).  This was not an illogical jump, therefore the scumslip is wrong.

This is an illogical jump.  Scum doesnt mean that you killed raerae (galz team) as scum could also be on the opposing team from galz (who killed Galz, not raerae).

[shraeye]

Hey guys, I reread the quote that Munch provided, and I think found the scumslip.  Bolded for emphasis.

I actually disagree with Robz that Munchraeye would take out raerae, if either one of them is scum.  Having her seem scummy, especially after the Cuzz flip, would actually help them, since a few of us at least felt that at least one of the three was scum.  Also, I have 0% of flipping town, and my partner Galzria and I developed this amazing new scum gambit where we NK one of us to throw everyone off.  That would have bought him/them a day as we lynched raerae out of the three of them.

haha, except I'm actually trying to figure out what's going on here.  I think ashersky is saying that Munch is being silly.  But I think the Munch honestly thinks he has something; I'm just trying to figure out what both parties mean.

I think theorel is about to clarify things; at least I hope so.

[ashersky]

Ashersky, could you please clarify this to me?

You have said that at least one of Munch/raerae/shraeye is scum; clearly it is not raerae.

Do you think that both me/Munch are scum?

Or do you think it is ONLY one of us?

If it is only one of us, is it me or Munch that is scum?

I think (thought?) that up to two of the three could be scum.  That included raerae.  Now she's gone, and town.

So I think that probably one of the two remaining is scum.  Is it possible you both are?  Sure, but I think it's unlikely.

Clearly Munch looks really scummy to me now.  Although man, crazy theory tunneling Munch is usually town!munch.

[theorel]

Nevermind, I mixed up scumteams...the jump was illogical (The argument I thought I was going to make was based on the idea that given Robz' propositions that Galzria's partner was off-wagon, then munch/shraeye would be required to be not Galzria's partner.  And this would imply that munch/shraeye had killed raerae.  But it implies the opposite (i.e. munch/shraeye had to kill Galzria)).


So, to fully clarify:
Robz said "I thought one of munch/shraeye/raerae are scum, it's not raerae clearly."
Ashersky said "I disagree with this, I don't think munch/shraeye would shoot raerae."
Munch said "this is an illogical jump".

It is an illogical jump.  It could be a scumslip, it could just be a mistake/misreading.

[ashersky]

Robz, I wonder if you feel the same about shraeye.

I do NOT feel the same about shraeye.

He was largely absent from the end-of-day shenanigans (all things being equal, this is a scumtell). Now, I know he was busy, that's fine. But I really did expect him to express at least some skepticism that Cuzz was the right direction after the cop claim. He did not; his case that he thought was so full-proof remained so, to him.

Additionally, I've said this before, but I can't believe there isn't scum somewhere in the Munschraerae trifecta. We know it's not raerae. Munch is another person I'm watching especially closely. It would surprise me if all three of those people, so in sync, were town.

So if we're looking on wagon, I'm looking at shraeye and Munch. Off-wagon might be a BETTER place to look, but I'm not sure who is quite as scummy as shraeye and Munch there.

Let's take Robz post, to which I responded, in context.  He's talking about shraeye at first.  Then he makes the point that he believes there is scum amongst the munshraeray trifecta.  Then, if we're looking on wagon, it's the remaining two of that trifecta.

We had previously already discussed what team killed who, so I think we were already agreed the Galz team killed raerae.

I fully admitted that I misread Robz intentions with this post.  But remember, I disagreed with what I thought he was saying, which was that one of you two were scum that would kill raerae, whereas I thought if you were scum, you wouldn't.

If you want to take that to mean I am admitting that I know neither of you killed raerae because I am Galz's teammate and I killed raerae, that's your choice, I guess.  But I don't see that leap making sense.

My clarification is:

Hey guys, I reread the quote that Munch provided, and I think found the scumslip.  Bolded for emphasis.

I actually disagree with Robz that Munchraeye would take out raerae, if either one of them is scum.  Having her seem scummy, especially after the Cuzz flip, would actually help them, since a few of us at least felt that at least one of the three was scum.  Also, I have 0% of flipping town, and my partner Galzria and I developed this amazing new scum gambit where we NK one of us to throw everyone off.  That would have bought him/them a day as we lynched raerae out of the three of them.

I defend (sort of) Munch and shraeye here as NOT Galz's partner.  Am I doing that because I am Galz's partner?  Hmmm...that makes a lot of sense as scum!  That's exactly how I'd play it!  Woo-hoo!  We caught me!

[shraeye]

Nevermind, I mixed up scumteams...the jump was illogical (The argument I thought I was going to make was based on the idea that given Robz' propositions that Galzria's partner was off-wagon, then munch/shraeye would be required to be not Galzria's partner.  And this would imply that munch/shraeye had killed raerae.  But it implies the opposite (i.e. munch/shraeye had to kill Galzria)).


So, to fully clarify:
Robz said "I thought one of munch/shraeye/raerae are scum, it's not raerae clearly."
Ashersky said "I disagree with this, I don't think munch/shraeye would shoot raerae."
Munch said "this is an illogical jump".

It is an illogical jump.  It could be a scumslip, it could just be a mistake/misreading.

ahhhhh, that does make sense.  Thanks theorel.

[ashersky]

Fixed the quoting error at the end:

Robz, I wonder if you feel the same about shraeye.

I do NOT feel the same about shraeye.

He was largely absent from the end-of-day shenanigans (all things being equal, this is a scumtell). Now, I know he was busy, that's fine. But I really did expect him to express at least some skepticism that Cuzz was the right direction after the cop claim. He did not; his case that he thought was so full-proof remained so, to him.

Additionally, I've said this before, but I can't believe there isn't scum somewhere in the Munschraerae trifecta. We know it's not raerae. Munch is another person I'm watching especially closely. It would surprise me if all three of those people, so in sync, were town.

So if we're looking on wagon, I'm looking at shraeye and Munch. Off-wagon might be a BETTER place to look, but I'm not sure who is quite as scummy as shraeye and Munch there.

Let's take Robz post, to which I responded, in context.  He's talking about shraeye at first.  Then he makes the point that he believes there is scum amongst the munshraeray trifecta.  Then, if we're looking on wagon, it's the remaining two of that trifecta.

We had previously already discussed what team killed who, so I think we were already agreed the Galz team killed raerae.

I fully admitted that I misread Robz intentions with this post.  But remember, I disagreed with what I thought he was saying, which was that one of you two were scum that would kill raerae, whereas I thought if you were scum, you wouldn't.

If you want to take that to mean I am admitting that I know neither of you killed raerae because I am Galz's teammate and I killed raerae, that's your choice, I guess.  But I don't see that leap making sense.

My clarification is:

I actually disagree with Robz that Munchraeye would take out raerae, if either one of them is scum.  Having her seem scummy, especially after the Cuzz flip, would actually help them, since a few of us at least felt that at least one of the three was scum.  Also, I have 0% of flipping town, and my partner Galzria and I developed this amazing new scum gambit where we NK one of us to throw everyone off.  That would have bought him/them a day as we lynched raerae out of the three of them.

I defend (sort of) Munch and shraeye here as NOT Galz's partner.  Am I doing that because I am Galz's partner?  Hmmm...that makes a lot of sense as scum!  That's exactly how I'd play it!  Woo-hoo!  We caught me!

[ashersky]

Nevermind, I mixed up scumteams...the jump was illogical (The argument I thought I was going to make was based on the idea that given Robz' propositions that Galzria's partner was off-wagon, then munch/shraeye would be required to be not Galzria's partner.  And this would imply that munch/shraeye had killed raerae.  But it implies the opposite (i.e. munch/shraeye had to kill Galzria)).


So, to fully clarify:
Robz said "I thought one of munch/shraeye/raerae are scum, it's not raerae clearly."
Ashersky said "I disagree with this, I don't think munch/shraeye would shoot raerae."
Munch said "this is an illogical jump".

It is an illogical jump.  It could be a scumslip, it could just be a mistake/misreading.

I thought this was going to be your argument, actually.  But Robz never made the "Galz's partner was off-wagon" argument.  So it doesn't work to say.  Appreciate the thought, though.

I do think Galz's partner was off-wagon, btw.

[TheMunch]

Nevermind, I mixed up scumteams...the jump was illogical (The argument I thought I was going to make was based on the idea that given Robz' propositions that Galzria's partner was off-wagon, then munch/shraeye would be required to be not Galzria's partner.  And this would imply that munch/shraeye had killed raerae.  But it implies the opposite (i.e. munch/shraeye had to kill Galzria)).


So, to fully clarify:
Robz said "I thought one of munch/shraeye/raerae are scum, it's not raerae clearly."
Ashersky said "I disagree with this, I don't think munch/shraeye would shoot raerae."
Munch said "this is an illogical jump".

It is an illogical jump.  It could be a scumslip, it could just be a mistake/misreading.

Thank you!  You get me.  I argue its a scumslip; I dont know if it is just a mistake.  But this is exactly what I am trying to say.

[shraeye]

How does the rest of the world feel about there needing to be at least 1 scum in Munch/Shraeye right now?

I know ashersky's and Robz's ideas.

[ashersky]

How many does it take to lynch?  Do we have enough online right now to lynch that clear scum ashersky?

Munch, shraeye, theo, ash...not enough.  Who else is around?

[ashersky]

How does the rest of the world feel about there needing to be at least 1 scum in Munch/Shraeye right now?

Save this for D3.  Let's lynch confirmed scum ashersky!

[shraeye]

Nevermind, I mixed up scumteams...the jump was illogical (The argument I thought I was going to make was based on the idea that given Robz' propositions that Galzria's partner was off-wagon, then munch/shraeye would be required to be not Galzria's partner.  And this would imply that munch/shraeye had killed raerae.  But it implies the opposite (i.e. munch/shraeye had to kill Galzria)).

This sounds like you're telling us that Galz had one partner.  When did we learn that piece of info?  I have no idea how big the scumteams are.

[ashersky]

Nevermind, I mixed up scumteams...the jump was illogical (The argument I thought I was going to make was based on the idea that given Robz' propositions that Galzria's partner was off-wagon, then munch/shraeye would be required to be not Galzria's partner.  And this would imply that munch/shraeye had killed raerae.  But it implies the opposite (i.e. munch/shraeye had to kill Galzria)).

This sounds like you're telling us that Galz had one partner.  When did we learn that piece of info?  I have no idea how big the scumteams are.

I'd guess a two 2-man teams or a 3-man team and an SK.  Although that may be a little small for a town this size...

[theorel]

Nevermind, I mixed up scumteams...the jump was illogical (The argument I thought I was going to make was based on the idea that given Robz' propositions that Galzria's partner was off-wagon, then munch/shraeye would be required to be not Galzria's partner.  And this would imply that munch/shraeye had killed raerae.  But it implies the opposite (i.e. munch/shraeye had to kill Galzria)).


So, to fully clarify:
Robz said "I thought one of munch/shraeye/raerae are scum, it's not raerae clearly."
Ashersky said "I disagree with this, I don't think munch/shraeye would shoot raerae."
Munch said "this is an illogical jump".

It is an illogical jump.  It could be a scumslip, it could just be a mistake/misreading.

I thought this was going to be your argument, actually.  But Robz never made the "Galz's partner was off-wagon" argument.  So it doesn't work to say.  Appreciate the thought, though.

I do think Galz's partner was off-wagon, btw.

Okay, trying again...full clarification of what happened.
Robz says: "one of munch-shraeye-raerae is scum, not raerae."
He then says: "Galz' partner probably not on wagon" (He did in fact say this ashersky, you quoted it when you said the supposed scumslip)
Ashersky says: "I don't think munch-shraeye would kill raerae".
Munch says: "Why do you think that scum = killed raerae?  Is it because you killed Galzria? I see no other reason to make that assumption."
ashersky says: "Why are you accusing me of being partners with Galzria?"

@shraeye
1. you'll notice I also pluralized proposition to propositions...but Robz only offered one proposition.
2. If I had said partners you would be accusing me of suggesting that Galzria unequivocally has multiple partners? So, the only acceptable wording to talk about people on Galzria's team is with specified uncertain pluralization.

I'm seriously not going to be that careful...sorry.