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[Tables]

I've thought about it, and concluded that Frisk's refusal to vote O is almost certainly a towntell. O was looking like, especially after my analysis (mainly because of my special almost-clear status) like he'd be a likely lynch, and Frisk had the chance to hammer his partner for brownie points. As mafia, I can't see why he wouldn't do that, knowing he'd come under fire the following day. DSell I really don't buy... he hasn't said much, and I still lack a huge read, but what he's said comes across as collected, thoughtful and concise. Hmm... actually, those sound more like mafia traits, being very careful with what you say. Ugh. I WAS going to then go on to arguing Joth is the most likely scum in my book, but now I'm back on DSell again. It'd explain the lack of read, and at this point no read is a scum read.

Where would scum put teammates on their happy lynch charts? Not at the top, in case it encourages an easy bus you don't even get credit for. Maybe at the bottom, so it looks like you're happy enough, and can point and say 'no, I wanted him dead' later. Maybe not on the list, if you think you'll get away with it. DSell had him on his list, near the bottom, and didn't vote for O. However, it's worth noting DSell was the last person to post his list (due to vacation or otherwise, still the case). This meant he had time to give the other lists a look and post his own based on other people's, which if he were mafia would seem a reasonable thing to do. On top of that, there's this:

Finished.

I'm going to start putting a lot of content together to summarize my impressions/ideas about who is scum as well as reasoning for my vote, but for now and since we have so little time, Vote: Galzria. In short, reading through these pages I at one point had completely bought into everything he was saying before realizing that he was still possible mafia. When I looked at what he said with that possibility in mind AND in light of some of the things he's said recently (ok I thought Robz was crazy at first too but I understood what he was meaning waaaay sooner than Galz did, and Galz was pretty rough on him about it), I actually feel VERY worried that he's mafia and exactly where he wants to be: front and center with a mix of people trusting and distrusting him.

I know it looks crazy that I'm getting on the bandwagon with the person I've campaigned hardest against, but jo is probably only my 3rd or 4th most-likely-to-be-mafia at this point.

I could support lynching O but I have some strong misgivings about it. He's been crazy and quite oddly defensive D2, but I don't believe he's ever been in serious hot water before in any game. I fear that lynching him, whether he flips mafia or town, will give us a lot of information about how O plays but not so much information we can use to make good lynches on future days. Obviously lynching mafia, if he is mafia, is worth it. But he's not at the top of my suspicions list and I still believe we have time to make a better choice.

Also, was O meaning that he was leaving immediately? Is he gone? Because that would be sucky to lynch someone while they're gone/a convenient excuse depending on how you look at it. But Axxle, if he's really gone I wouldn't be expecting a claim from him.

Like I said, more content to come.

Which just reeks of defending a teammate, especially when he later states he'd be willing to lynch O (but had preferable candidates).

I'm still not sure of this, because I can see some of the logic as town, but it feels kinda like scum defending scum and being just a tiny bit unsure of where to go. So for now: Vote: DSell.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 3-8

Captain_Frisk (2): Axxle, popsofctown
Dsell (3): Robz888, jotheonah, Tables

Not voting {4}: Dsell, Captain_Frisk, Glooble, SwitchedFromStarcraft

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Lynch Deadline:  Tuesday, July 11, 4:59 p.m. EDT

[Tables]

Did I just get my post sandwiched by vote counts?

Cool

[Dsell]

Let me address some of these points later this afternoon. Gone for a while.

[Captain_Frisk]

@Pops -

Since I don't trust that your vote really reflects who you think is mafia (see pushing for O lynch while voting for Grujah) - would you care to chime in on the Captain Frisk vs. DSell debate?

[popsofctown]

@Pops -

Since I don't trust that your vote really reflects who you think is mafia (see pushing for O lynch while voting for Grujah) - would you care to chime in on the Captain Frisk vs. DSell debate?

I haven't made up my mind.  Robz seems to disagree with me about you.  Dsell has been forgettable all game and I do wonder about the reason behind that.  He's certainly not an exciting lynch.

My instincts still point to C_F, but it's not at all slamdunk.  There's pros to lynching Dsell.  He's the only player alive O really seemed to avoid (Dsell has cited interactions, but I forgot those interactions, and that may be because O and Dsell made them forgettable interactions, e.g. safe play).  If Dsell flips town, O would seem to be the person who doesn't avoid interacting with scumpartners (a minority), and we could look into the porpoises behind his interactions, swimming in hyperactive ecstasy.

And I do have to put some stock in theorel saying Dsell is scum.  I have a pretty null read on Dsell, so a confirmed teammate's opinion would take precedence over mine.  Galzria thought C_F was scum, but Galzria also thought I was scum, so I don't think he was on top of this agme.

Dsell lynch is a good lynch but it's not my lynch.  I guess that's why I didn't talk about it much before prompted.  I do see myself voting on it today.

[Captain_Frisk]

And one more question -

You helped push O-mania with "O lynch is go lynch" and "It rhymes" as a reason... but you weren't actually voting for O.  I've mentioned it a few times - and nobody seems to care.  Could you comment as to why you didn't vote for O?

[Glooble]

This feels wrong to me, but I can't put my finger on it. I'll wait on DSell's defense before making a decision.

[popsofctown]

And one more question -

You helped push O-mania with "O lynch is go lynch" and "It rhymes" as a reason... but you weren't actually voting for O.  I've mentioned it a few times - and nobody seems to care.  Could you comment as to why you didn't vote for O?

I've been criticized for commenting too much about why I didn't vote for O >_>

I lost my cake and puked it too.

I forgot to vote him.  I thought I was voting him. 

[jotheonah]

And one more question -

You helped push O-mania with "O lynch is go lynch" and "It rhymes" as a reason... but you weren't actually voting for O.  I've mentioned it a few times - and nobody seems to care.  Could you comment as to why you didn't vote for O?

I've been criticized for commenting too much about why I didn't vote for O >_>

I lost my cake and puked it too.

I forgot to vote him.  I thought I was voting him.

Seriously pops, if any one of us made that excuse, would you buy it? You're a smart player. Voltgloss posts vote counts with some regularity. Your vote continued not to exist for some time. "I forgot" seems extremely suspect to me.

[Captain_Frisk]

Volt: Will there be an extension on account of forum outage?

[Voltgloss]

Volt: Will there be an extension on account of forum outage?

Yes, the lynch deadline will be extended by 24 hours.  Will incorporate in next vote count. 

[popsofctown]

And one more question -

You helped push O-mania with "O lynch is go lynch" and "It rhymes" as a reason... but you weren't actually voting for O.  I've mentioned it a few times - and nobody seems to care.  Could you comment as to why you didn't vote for O?

I've been criticized for commenting too much about why I didn't vote for O >_>

I lost my cake and puked it too.

I forgot to vote him.  I thought I was voting him.

Seriously pops, if any one of us made that excuse, would you buy it? You're a smart player. Voltgloss posts vote counts with some regularity. Your vote continued not to exist for some time. "I forgot" seems extremely suspect to me.

Yes, I would buy it if it was plausible.

[jotheonah]

And one more question -

You helped push O-mania with "O lynch is go lynch" and "It rhymes" as a reason... but you weren't actually voting for O.  I've mentioned it a few times - and nobody seems to care.  Could you comment as to why you didn't vote for O?

I've been criticized for commenting too much about why I didn't vote for O >_>

I lost my cake and puked it too.

I forgot to vote him.  I thought I was voting him.

Seriously pops, if any one of us made that excuse, would you buy it? You're a smart player. Voltgloss posts vote counts with some regularity. Your vote continued not to exist for some time. "I forgot" seems extremely suspect to me.

Yes, I would buy it if it was plausible.

What a tautology. Do you consider it plausible?
It's pointless to ask you this, but I take it to everyone else. How believable do you find pops's excuse? I am not sold on it.

[Captain_Frisk]

O's inability to remember that Tables is investigated town is scummy, Hawaii or not.  For a scum it blends in with all the other person known to be town, for townies paying any attention at all it should be a flashing green light in your memory that this is the one player in the game whose alignment we know with a high degree of certainty.

Vote: O

It's a pretty ugly omgus too.

I forgot to vote him.  I thought I was voting him. 

[popsofctown]

O's inability to remember that Tables is investigated town is scummy, Hawaii or not.  For a scum it blends in with all the other person known to be town, for townies paying any attention at all it should be a flashing green light in your memory that this is the one player in the game whose alignment we know with a high degree of certainty.

Vote: O

It's a pretty ugly omgus too.

I forgot to vote him.  I thought I was voting him. 

I'm confused.  That quote is a supportive reason that I might mistake my current status of voting for O, because I did vote him at some point.  But C_F hates me so somehow he means it in a negative way.

[jotheonah]

So pops remembered voting O but forgot he had changed it in the meantime? That's a little more believable I guess.

[popsofctown]

liek my nu aveetar?

[Captain_Frisk]

So pops remembered voting O but forgot he had changed it in the meantime? That's a little more believable I guess.

It's not completely unbelievable- but neither is O's "I forgot about SFS's roleclaim".

I am thinking about joining the DSell wagon.  I don't like either your or Pops either, but of the 3 of you - of which I fully expect at least 1 to be mafia - DSell is I guess the "smoothest".  He doesn't have our vote history - so he's the least likely to get in trouble for failing to lynch O.  I don't like that the case basically is "he didn't vote for O - and the other guys are too crazy", but I find my gut kindof agreeing with it.

[popsofctown]

O's claim of forgetfullness was not unbeleivable, because it was true.  It wasn't a lie.  He did forget about the roleclaim. 

It was just something scum is more likely to forget. 

I'm not sure scum are more likely to forget where they have their vote.  Maybe they are.  Idk.

[jotheonah]

Oh, I think scum are much less likely to forget where they have their vote.  But if you are scum, in my mind, you didn't really forget.

I am also on the Dsell wagon. But if it turns out to be a fail wagon (or even if Dsell is scum and we're still looking for one more) I'm not sure if I like the pops wagon or the Frisk wagon better right now.

Maybe it won't matter.

[Axxle]

Don't most people check the votecount to make sure the mod is tracking votes correctly? I know I at least check to make sure my vote is in the right place.

DSell's defense of O reminds me some of his defense of Morgrim7 in a MIII.  Because of that I'm reluctant to call it a scumbuddy defense, he seems to like playing devil's advocate; an admittedly dangerous trait to have as town.

[Dsell]

Ok I see I'm under fire some. I want to address some of these points. A big part of why I didn't vote for O was because it seemed a lot like the Morgrim wagon from Mafia III. There were some big differences (here we were under a deadline, weren't at MYLO), but it seemed very similar essentially: we were largely voting based on playstyle and acting crazy. Morgrim seemed suspicious to me but I was very wary of the wagon. Similarly, O was very scummy but after seeing Morgrim flip town I again was wary. Under the time constraints I would definitely have hammer him, he WAS scummy and better than a no-lynch. That's why I got up at 6:40 am, to ensure that there would be a lynch. Besides this, I don't see much of a case against me. Let me try to sum it up succinctly and refute points as I go along.

Me and O had no interaction----->Not true. I was on vacation day 2 but he defended me multiple times day 1 and I expressed concern about his bandwagon at the end of day 2. Not the kind of interaction that's good for me but interaction nonetheless.

I am too logical----->As I've already pointed out, my gut in Mafia III steered me way wrong. Trying to improve from that performance and I am putting logic before my gut, I don't see what's wrong with that.

I am too "smooth"----->uhh, thanks? I won an essay contest once.

Nobody has a read on me----->What am I supposed to do about this? I was gone day 2 so there was a gap there but I've been pro-town this whole game. Maybe if you want a read on me you should go back and read what I've said. Don't see how this makes me suspicious.

PoE----->This one is legit! Process of elimination is good scumhunting, I think. I used it in Mafia III to figure out who the mafia was. Ironically, it's a very logical argument, Robz. But again, it's wrong. Go back and look through your own arguments, examine your steps, and look for weak spots. SFS has already pointed out a big one. I also have to remind people that this is the fourth mafia game on this forum, and that the mafia have a wealth of scumhunting and "expected" scum behavior to draw on. I think we can't expect them to do what we expect. I suspect they'll be both more subtle and more obvious than we'd expect.

So basically I don't see much of a case here. I still suspect C_F and jo most.

Also, I had an interesting thought earlier. What if Tables is Mafia Chancellor? (Godfather)

[Dsell]

And I was ninja'd by Axxle on my very first point.

[jotheonah]

idk why I always expect people's defense posts to blow me away. They're usually super underwhelming like that one.