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[faust]

Vote Count 2.2

gkrieg13 (2): DatSwan, Hydrad
Awaclus (1): Eevee

Not Voting (9): EFHW, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, Robz888, Galzria, IDontPlayThisGame

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 11, 2018, 03:30:00 am.

[SpaceAnemone]

Personally, I think there's something interesting and discussion-worth there, both in the even itself and how people are reacting to it. Still nobody has come out and claimed to have been in a neighbourhood with Jimmmmm. I don't see many townie reasons to stay quiet in the main thread now that at least one scum has access to the neighbourhood, so I think that means a subset of scum probably have a neighbourhood. The only neighbourhood I've been in was a very useful space in which to daychat with Robz about how to lie to the rest of town and win M116, so two scums having that kind of power is not good. Howcome people aren't talking more about it?

Why do you think there were more than 2 people in the neighborhood?

I don't know how many people there were, and didn't mean to imply a particular range or number. It had crossed my mind that a neighbourhood with more than one remaining townie might still be worth keeping hidden, but if it's got a scum in it too, I don't see how useful it can be.

[mcmcsalot]

Jimm was a total null factor yesterday. I think the wagon was actually fairly townie.

Lets go with sole pr related stuff then. For starters, I was targeted last night and I'll leave it there for now.

gkrieg also prodded mcmc about this. I'm not following this logic either.

If the wagon is townie, do you think that scum were trying to stay off wagon? So you think we'll find a higher percentage of scum in the pool of: Iguana, Awaclus, IDPTG, Robz than we will in the pool of EFHW, gkrieg13, Galzria, Hydrad, Eevee, DatSwan, SpaceAnemone?

 I guess no, I don't think that. I guess it probably has something to do with the fact that I was the other wagon. So I don't think scum had a preference of pushing the lynch to lalight instead of me. Add the fact that the end of the wagon was due to being close to deadline and needing a lynch it's hard for me to find a scum motivation for joining the lalight wagon. Upon reflection it's not a great point.

[SpaceAnemone]

Personally, I think there's something interesting and discussion-worth there, both in the even itself and how people are reacting to it. Still nobody has come out and claimed to have been in a neighbourhood with Jimmmmm. I don't see many townie reasons to stay quiet in the main thread now that at least one scum has access to the neighbourhood, so I think that means a subset of scum probably have a neighbourhood. The only neighbourhood I've been in was a very useful space in which to daychat with Robz about how to lie to the rest of town and win M116, so two scums having that kind of power is not good. Howcome people aren't talking more about it?

Why do you think there were more than 2 people in the neighborhood?

I don't know how many people there were, and didn't mean to imply a particular range or number. It had crossed my mind that a neighbourhood with more than one remaining townie might still be worth keeping hidden, but if it's got a scum in it too, I don't see how useful it can be.

Note that if the other neighbour really is town, scum already knows who they are by having access to the neighbourhood. That means they're already a huge scum target if they are town...

[Hydrad]

It does seem like Jimmmmm's town!neighbor(s) could claim here. They won't be IC though, since they could be scum fake claiming.

Maybe theres a chance we could even get info on why they picked jimmmm. I don't really know how though. But ya I guess I'll leave it to Jimmms neighbour (or neighbours) to decide if they should appear.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I don't hate the Awaclus lynch idea: I disagreed with his logic on D1 and found his "no second guessing the mod" and "we can't possibly know any single thing about the setup" arguments to be severely lacking in nuance. However I feel like we're regressing a lot to D1 behaviour... don't we have more out there to play with now?

Is this like super subtly asking for some form of claim? Don’t you think a little early to be outting roles?

I don't know whether I think the Awaclus stuff is based on someone pushing it again because of role info, or because arguing with Awaclus is something that just kind of sucks people in. My word of warning was in case of the former, and the "more to play with" is at least stuff like the neighbourhoods discussion.

Personally, I think there's something interesting and discussion-worth there, both in the even itself and how people are reacting to it. Still nobody has come out and claimed to have been in a neighbourhood with Jimmmmm. I don't see many townie reasons to stay quiet in the main thread now that at least one scum has access to the neighbourhood, so I think that means a subset of scum probably have a neighbourhood. The only neighbourhood I've been in was a very useful space in which to daychat with Robz about how to lie to the rest of town and win M116, so two scums having that kind of power is not good. Howcome people aren't talking more about it?

I think whether the Neighbors claim depends on the size. However, there's at least one scum in the Neighborhood now, so the list of Neighbors (assuming it's accurate) is a lynch pool almost guaranteed* to contain scum. If we assume Jim was Nk'd because of being a Neighbor, there are probably 2+ scum in the Neighborhood now.

*I say almost because we know next to nothing about this set-up and there are ways someone joined the Neighborhood without NK'ing Jim and there are ways scum NK'd Jim without joining the Neighborhood. However, we don't know if any of those are in this game.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think whether the Neighbors claim depends on the size. However, there's at least one scum in the Neighborhood now, so the list of Neighbors (assuming it's accurate) is a lynch pool almost guaranteed* to contain scum. If we assume Jim was Nk'd because of being a Neighbor, there are probably 2+ scum in the Neighborhood now.

*I say almost because we know next to nothing about this set-up and there are ways someone joined the Neighborhood without NK'ing Jim and there are ways scum NK'd Jim without joining the Neighborhood. However, we don't know if any of those are in this game.

From the responses I was able to get from faust in my QT, we know that the scum who killed a neighbour gets to be in the neighbourhood, so let's assume they couldn't have NK'd Jimmmmm and not now be in the neighbourhood. I say "in": they may have reading access and choose not to post, which is the most likely thing if the other user(s) are town.

It's probably true that there may be ways for someone to join the neighbourhood without NKing a member. It's bad for town, and again, if a townie is in a neighbourhood with a scum, they probably ought to say something in-thread so that we know to protect them (if/when possible) from NKs, since those are people scum are going to want to take out. That is, unless there are townies with PGO-type roles :-)

I think it's fair to assume Jimmmmm was killed for being a neighbour with a scum, but it's not a definite given. They could have randomised the kill for all we know. By D3, though, we can be pretty sure they're planning on having a neighbourhood with two scums in, if that's not the situation already.

[SpaceAnemone]

It does seem like Jimmmmm's town!neighbor(s) could claim here. They won't be IC though, since they could be scum fake claiming.

Maybe theres a chance we could even get info on why they picked jimmmm.

This part makes it sound like you're in agreement with the stuff EFHW and I were saying about how there's almost certain town benefit if the neighbour claims, and therefore no reason for a townie neighbour not to claim.

But ya I guess I'll leave it to Jimmms neighbour (or neighbours) to decide if they should appear.

... and this part sounds like the least enthusiastic agreement it's possible to make without actively looking like a hedge, being sure to leave lots of wiggle-room for scum to say they just didn't feel like claiming etc.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think we can assume that one of the following is true: a) the Neighborhood is entirely scum or b) the remaining town!Neighbor(s) do(es) not know exactly who is in the Neighborhood (and therefore who joined last night).

[gkrieg13]

Jimm was a total null factor yesterday. I think the wagon was actually fairly townie.

Lets go with sole pr related stuff then. For starters, I was targeted last night and I'll leave it there for now.

gkrieg also prodded mcmc about this. I'm not following this logic either.

If the wagon is townie, do you think that scum were trying to stay off wagon? So you think we'll find a higher percentage of scum in the pool of: Iguana, Awaclus, IDPTG, Robz than we will in the pool of EFHW, gkrieg13, Galzria, Hydrad, Eevee, DatSwan, SpaceAnemone?

 I guess no, I don't think that. I guess it probably has something to do with the fact that I was the other wagon. So I don't think scum had a preference of pushing the lynch to lalight instead of me. Add the fact that the end of the wagon was due to being close to deadline and needing a lynch it's hard for me to find a scum motivation for joining the lalight wagon. Upon reflection it's not a great point.

Sorry, I'm tired and not really reading things right, what exactly does this say?  He doesn't think that scum were on the wagon, or he does think scum were on the wagon?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I don't think Neighbors should claim. If a town!Neighbor had something useful to say, they would have said it.

[Swowl]

Wait - are we acting under the assumption that when you are added to or leave a side thread that it is not announced? I have also asked Faust to clarify - but just clarifying that is the mindset everyone speaking is acting under.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Wait - are we acting under the assumption that when you are added to or leave a side thread that it is not announced? I have also asked Faust to clarify - but just clarifying that is the mindset everyone speaking is acting under.

I am.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Wait - are we acting under the assumption that when you are added to or leave a side thread that it is not announced? I have also asked Faust to clarify - but just clarifying that is the mindset everyone speaking is acting under.

I am.

Well, either that or the Neighborhood is entirely scum. Otherwise, why wouldn't a town!Neighbor come forward and say, "hey, this person was the only person to join the Neighborhood last night, we should lynch them"? I doubt 3+ people joined, so if two joined, they're either both scum or one scum, one town. So if we lynch both of them, we're guaranteed to hit scum.

[iguanaiguana]

So from people discussing this, I came up with a theory for what Jim's neighborhood was like that also explains why they killed him.

Theory:

Jim had a neighborhood with two players, the two kidneys. Except what he didn't know was that his neighbor was a mafia cancer kidney, not a healthy kidney like him. Maybe he claimed, maybe he didn't. But most likely it had daychat.l Either way, scum killed him for two reasons:

1) Shooting/rolestealing from him gives them a scum only neighborhood where half the team can talk during they day. Maybe the other teammates even have access to read the text if they were allowed to share the link in the mafia factional QT. So basically, they get buffed with daychat.

2) Shooting/rolestealing him is safer than doing it to another random town power. Probably at least some players would be bad to for mafia to shoot, but they know that Jim's main role is neighbor and that's a decent outcome for them.

This would explain why no one is claiming to be Jim's neighbor. Because his neighbor was scum and now there's a scum only neighborhood, probably with daychat.

[iguanaiguana]

It does seem like Jimmmmm's town!neighbor(s) could claim here. They won't be IC though, since they could be scum fake claiming.

Maybe theres a chance we could even get info on why they picked jimmmm.

This part makes it sound like you're in agreement with the stuff EFHW and I were saying about how there's almost certain town benefit if the neighbour claims, and therefore no reason for a townie neighbour not to claim.

But ya I guess I'll leave it to Jimmms neighbour (or neighbours) to decide if they should appear.

... and this part sounds like the least enthusiastic agreement it's possible to make without actively looking like a hedge, being sure to leave lots of wiggle-room for scum to say they just didn't feel like claiming etc.

Hydrad hedges a lot. He doesn't look like scum here though because his activity level is high (for him) and the townie speculative thoughtfulness is there that he has trouble recreating as scum. We were scum together a few times back in 2015 so I feel like I got decently able to read him.

Also I just noticed that you basically laid out the theory I just posted already in a previous post.

[iguanaiguana]

Jimm was a total null factor yesterday. I think the wagon was actually fairly townie.

Lets go with sole pr related stuff then. For starters, I was targeted last night and I'll leave it there for now.

gkrieg also prodded mcmc about this. I'm not following this logic either.

If the wagon is townie, do you think that scum were trying to stay off wagon? So you think we'll find a higher percentage of scum in the pool of: Iguana, Awaclus, IDPTG, Robz than we will in the pool of EFHW, gkrieg13, Galzria, Hydrad, Eevee, DatSwan, SpaceAnemone?

 I guess no, I don't think that. I guess it probably has something to do with the fact that I was the other wagon. So I don't think scum had a preference of pushing the lynch to lalight instead of me. Add the fact that the end of the wagon was due to being close to deadline and needing a lynch it's hard for me to find a scum motivation for joining the lalight wagon. Upon reflection it's not a great point.

Sorry, I'm tired and not really reading things right, what exactly does this say?  He doesn't think that scum were on the wagon, or he does think scum were on the wagon?

He thinks it's a big wash and scum could be anywhere because "all the wagons were on town."

[Swowl]

So from people discussing this, I came up with a theory for what Jim's neighborhood was like that also explains why they killed him.

Theory:

Jim had a neighborhood with two players, the two kidneys. Except what he didn't know was that his neighbor was a mafia cancer kidney, not a healthy kidney like him. Maybe he claimed, maybe he didn't. But most likely it had daychat.l Either way, scum killed him for two reasons:

1) Shooting/rolestealing from him gives them a scum only neighborhood where half the team can talk during they day. Maybe the other teammates even have access to read the text if they were allowed to share the link in the mafia factional QT. So basically, they get buffed with daychat.

2) Shooting/rolestealing him is safer than doing it to another random town power. Probably at least some players would be bad to for mafia to shoot, but they know that Jim's main role is neighbor and that's a decent outcome for them.

This would explain why no one is claiming to be Jim's neighbor. Because his neighbor was scum and now there's a scum only neighborhood, probably with daychat.

The day chat part is interesting - that kind of makes Skum’s upside to targeting Jim a lot more significant.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I was typing up this thing on what we should do if it turns out the Neighborhood is told who enters but it relies on a bunch of assumptions so I'm not sure if it's relevant. If people want me to post it, I'll finish it and post, but it basically boiled down to: if there are any town!Neighbors, no more than two people joined last night, and the Neighbors are told who entered, they should claim today since I think it leads to, at worst, one mislynch and one successful lynch. This would have to be done today because tomorrow is MyLo without a scum lynch today so we don't have the luxury of a 1-for-1.

PPE: 4. I was working through it as I typed it and it took a bit.

[Hydrad]

It does seem like Jimmmmm's town!neighbor(s) could claim here. They won't be IC though, since they could be scum fake claiming.

Maybe theres a chance we could even get info on why they picked jimmmm.

This part makes it sound like you're in agreement with the stuff EFHW and I were saying about how there's almost certain town benefit if the neighbour claims, and therefore no reason for a townie neighbour not to claim.

But ya I guess I'll leave it to Jimmms neighbour (or neighbours) to decide if they should appear.

... and this part sounds like the least enthusiastic agreement it's possible to make without actively looking like a hedge, being sure to leave lots of wiggle-room for scum to say they just didn't feel like claiming etc.

Ya I guess if I have to take a stance I'm in the I think neighbor should claim spot. I guess the second part was me realizing there could be a some reason the towny didn't need to claim. But I didn't fully consider that its more beneficial for scum most likely then town to not claim there.

[Hydrad]

Hydrad hedges a lot. He doesn't look like scum here though because his activity level is high (for him) and the townie speculative thoughtfulness is there that he has trouble recreating as scum. We were scum together a few times back in 2015 so I feel like I got decently able to read him.

Also I just noticed that you basically laid out the theory I just posted already in a previous post.

I seem to be a easyish read while I keep rolling town so that makes these games easier. Although I'm worried about my next scum game then as I doubt I'll be able to keep this up. Ah well thats future me's problem.

[Eevee]

[tt[/tt]

I don't think Neighbors should claim. If a town!Neighbor had something useful to say, they would have said it.

towny

DAMA

[Eevee]

It does seem like Jimmmmm's town!neighbor(s) could claim here. They won't be IC though, since they could be scum fake claiming.

Maybe theres a chance we could even get info on why they picked jimmmm.

This part makes it sound like you're in agreement with the stuff EFHW and I were saying about how there's almost certain town benefit if the neighbour claims, and therefore no reason for a townie neighbour not to claim.

But ya I guess I'll leave it to Jimmms neighbour (or neighbours) to decide if they should appear.

... and this part sounds like the least enthusiastic agreement it's possible to make without actively looking like a hedge, being sure to leave lots of wiggle-room for scum to say they just didn't feel like claiming etc.

Hydrad hedges a lot. He doesn't look like scum here though because his activity level is high (for him) and the townie speculative thoughtfulness is there that he has trouble recreating as scum. We were scum together a few times back in 2015 so I feel like I got decently able to read him.

Also I just noticed that you basically laid out the theory I just posted already in a previous post.

Kinda disagree with this. I don’t have very recent experience, I think there are things that are more pointing towards scumminess.

[Hydrad]

Kinda disagree with this. I don’t have very recent experience, I think there are things that are more pointing towards scumminess.

I'm the hedge master

[Robz888]

Posting so I don't get prodded. Swear I'm catching up shortly.