-A list of all roles and their corresponding cards will be posted on D1, along with each player's discarded cards.
-A list of all roles and their corresponding cards will be posted on D1, along with each player's discarded cards.
Does this mean that there will be a list of 13 cards but it doesn't say who discarded what, or that it will be announced who discarded which card?
Oh, and /in
There will be a list of 13 cards and it won't say who discarded what.
Greater idea with balance??? Pfft.
/in
I might have misunderstood it. Though it doesn't say either in the wiki...There will be a list of 13 cards and it won't say who discarded what.
Oh, it won't? It was my understanding that Greater Idea(s) did show this, hence the wiki comment about how it "skips" RVS? Or did I misunderstand that?
In greater idea you know who discarded what, it helps to start discussion. In strange idea you don't.I might have misunderstood it. Though it doesn't say either in the wiki...There will be a list of 13 cards and it won't say who discarded what.
Oh, it won't? It was my understanding that Greater Idea(s) did show this, hence the wiki comment about how it "skips" RVS? Or did I misunderstand that?
Nvm then, we will know who discarded what.In greater idea you know who discarded what, it helps to start discussion. In strange idea you don't.I might have misunderstood it. Though it doesn't say either in the wiki...There will be a list of 13 cards and it won't say who discarded what.
Oh, it won't? It was my understanding that Greater Idea(s) did show this, hence the wiki comment about how it "skips" RVS? Or did I misunderstand that?
I don't think you put me on the list. :)you never /inned. is this an /in?
/in
i swear you just edited that in... ::)/in
Wow. This is filling up really fast. Sorry to ask again, but when are you thinking you'll start this?
There's an ellipsis after the 13th slot in the playercount, I assume that means the number of players is fluid and anyone who wants to join can.
Are you including Knights and Prizes?There's an ellipsis after the 13th slot in the playercount, I assume that means the number of players is fluid and anyone who wants to join can.
Well with 205 dominion cards including promos, thats...
Are you including Knights and Prizes?There's an ellipsis after the 13th slot in the playercount, I assume that means the number of players is fluid and anyone who wants to join can.
Well with 205 dominion cards including promos, thats...
The Greater Idea deck only has 139 cards in it, so no need.Are you including Knights and Prizes?There's an ellipsis after the 13th slot in the playercount, I assume that means the number of players is fluid and anyone who wants to join can.
Well with 205 dominion cards including promos, thats...
Knights as a stack counting as one, not prizes I though. Do you think they'll be included here?
The Greater Idea deck only has 139 cards in it, so no need.Are you including Knights and Prizes?There's an ellipsis after the 13th slot in the playercount, I assume that means the number of players is fluid and anyone who wants to join can.
Well with 205 dominion cards including promos, thats...
Knights as a stack counting as one, not prizes I though. Do you think they'll be included here?
The Greater Idea deck only has 139 cards in it, so no need.Are you including Knights and Prizes?There's an ellipsis after the 13th slot in the playercount, I assume that means the number of players is fluid and anyone who wants to join can.
Well with 205 dominion cards including promos, thats...
Knights as a stack counting as one, not prizes I though. Do you think they'll be included here?
Ok. So what exactly is "The Greater Idea Deck"? (excuse my ignorance) :DThese are all the possible roles in the game (it's also linked in the rules info): http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Greater_Idea_Mafia
So this filled really fast. However, it will not start until Wheel of Time is officially over.
In the meantime, go sign up for Monsters U mafia (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10846.0), as that only needs one more player to start.
So I'm looking through the deck on mafiascum, and it seems like there's a lot of stuff in there that usually isn't considered "normal", but this game counts as standard? Just curious.I agree this isn't very normal, but there are plenty of other setups that aren't really normal that have made it into normalcy on this site. Bus Driver, redirectors, weird mechanics, etc.
I really really like the deadline rulesThanks ;D
So I'm looking through the deck on mafiascum, and it seems like there's a lot of stuff in there that usually isn't considered "normal", but this game counts as standard? Just curious.
I mean if it's just posting vote counts and locking the thread then yeah, count me in.
I'm not playing, so I can do a balance check.Thanks. If i need it i'll PM you.
I mean if it's just posting vote counts and locking the thread then yeah, count me in.
You're in.
So how exactly does cult work in this setup? Do they get a factional kill or do they have to rely on lynches to become the majority?Lynches.
ummmm... /tag.
This filled up crazy fast. I don't think I was going to sign up for it, but now that I see that it filled up so fast it makes me kinda wish I could have...
/willingtosubin
I think personally I'd prefer no balance check and the game to not count for stats, that's kinda the point of the game, right? If we're going for a balanced game, there's setups that are much better than this one at ensuring balance.
I have never ever played forum mafia, but I want to give it a shot.
/in
I have never ever played forum mafia, but I want to give it a shot.
/in
Welcome! Make sure you read and sign the Civility Pledge before the game starts.
mail-mi I guess you can take me off the player list if I'm comodding.
This really needs to start.well WOT isn't over yet.
This really needs to start.well WOT isn't over yet.
If this game starts any time soon, I will also have to /out. I don't want to, though!
If this game starts any time soon, I will also have to /out. I don't want to, though!
If this game starts any time soon, I will also have to /out. I don't want to, though!
If this game starts any time soon, I will also have to /out. I don't want to, though!
If this game starts any time soon, I will also have to /out. I don't want to, though!
Similar thing here. (and yes, I am sheeping Robz)
PPE: Axxle ;D
Scoutmay beis more powerful than Rebuild for allyou know.
We're going to have to reroll the setup, sadly. I'll do it when I get home from school.Setup has been rerolled, and PMs sent. Please reply by 8 PM FT on Tuesday, May 13.
too late to /in?
Oh, we know what all the cards are?
Um...card claim and win?
PPE 2: It's card of hard to analyze what people discarded because no one knew what they were.Most? of the attack cards are scum roles and I would assume people could guess that. Those who discarded attack cards are probably? less likely to be scum and those who discarded nonattack cards are more likely? to be scum.
I'm actually kind of dissapointed I discarded the moat. Retired werewolf hunter sounds really cool.I know what most of them do, just ask.
On a side note, do we know what any of these other roles actually do? Or do we just guess?
So I had no idea we'd be picking random cards instead of actually choosing a role. Meh. That was why I wanted to play this setup [/rant]QFT
So nobody has Taxman, because Andrew wasn't vigged upon reveal. I'll look at what people discared later. Looks like my Hoard turned out to be a...mafia hider? :oI just realized: Andrew is a co-mod.
Welp, that's half the playerlist:PPE 2: It's card of hard to analyze what people discarded because no one knew what they were.Most? of the attack cards are scum roles and I would assume people could guess that. Those who discarded attack cards are probably? less likely to be scum and those who discarded nonattack cards are more likely? to be scum.
It's minor but maybe something to go on for now.
So I had no idea we'd be picking random cards instead of actually choosing a role. Meh. That was why I wanted to play this setup [/rant]Actually I'm glad we're not since people would've immediately lynched me, or should have in any case.
So I had no idea we'd be picking random cards instead of actually choosing a role. Meh. That was why I wanted to play this setup [/rant]Actually I'm glad we're not since people would've immediately lynched me, or should have in any case.
If we knew what our cards were I probably would have chosen scum, and most people know I'd do that.Why? For discarding mafia seer? How so?So I had no idea we'd be picking random cards instead of actually choosing a role. Meh. That was why I wanted to play this setup [/rant]Actually I'm glad we're not since people would've immediately lynched me, or should have in any case.
PPE 2: It's card of hard to analyze what people discarded because no one knew what they were.Most? of the attack cards are scum roles and I would assume people could guess that. Those who discarded attack cards are probably? less likely to be scum and those who discarded nonattack cards are more likely? to be scum.
It's minor but maybe something to go on for now.
If we knew what our cards were I probably would have chosen scum, and most people know I'd do that.Why? For discarding mafia seer? How so?So I had no idea we'd be picking random cards instead of actually choosing a role. Meh. That was why I wanted to play this setup [/rant]Actually I'm glad we're not since people would've immediately lynched me, or should have in any case.
There was a BM game where all scum had the option to choose VT instead of scum. Robz, Voltaire, and Chairs all elected to be scum, so that could speak to an inclination to choose scum over town.Really? Why didn't anyone bust that out in Philosopher's Mafia?!
I was also under the impression that we were going to know which roles we were choosing between, and not just flavor names. But I guess I can see how that might be problematic (vote X because X likes playing scum). But I also thought the point of Greater Idea Mafia was to eliminate RVS, but with this I'm not sure what we can get out of people's discards...
I was also under the impression that we were going to know which roles we were choosing between, and not just flavor names. But I guess I can see how that might be problematic (vote X because X likes playing scum). But I also thought the point of Greater Idea Mafia was to eliminate RVS, but with this I'm not sure what we can get out of people's discards...That's exactly how it plays FTF, it's hilarious.
Slight scum read on the person who discarded Fortress: that looks like a sure take.Because there's no lawyer card.
Also, why on earth is taxman a compulsive child killer?
PPE 2: It's card of hard to analyze what people discarded because no one knew what they were.Most? of the attack cards are scum roles and I would assume people could guess that. Those who discarded attack cards are probably? less likely to be scum and those who discarded nonattack cards are more likely? to be scum.
It's minor but maybe something to go on for now.
I was also under the impression that we were going to know which roles we were choosing between, and not just flavor names. But I guess I can see how that might be problematic (vote X because X likes playing scum). But I also thought the point of Greater Idea Mafia was to eliminate RVS, but with this I'm not sure what we can get out of people's discards...
Why do certain spots (like 15,17 etc) not have cards assigned to them ?
Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...And somehow doctor is bad?!
Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...And somehow doctor is bad?!
vote: teproc
Also, Nik. Why vote Voltaire And then just leave?Do you mean not give a reason? My reason is that earlier in the thread, I thought Volitare claimed he was Mafia, based on this:
I AM IN MAFIA AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINNow I realize he was talking about the game Mafia, not the Mafia faction. So, Unvote.
Vote: WW for discarding the best card in the game.
Am I the only one who wasn't assuming that there was a strong correlation between attack cards and scum roles? I haven't gone through and counted but it seems like there were a number of attack cards that were connected to town roles and vice-versa.
Am I the only one who wasn't assuming that there was a strong correlation between attack cards and scum roles? I haven't gone through and counted but it seems like there were a number of attack cards that were connected to town roles and vice-versa.
I assumed there was no relation to card name and role, that it was just randomized.
Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...
Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...
God forbid town have a doctor! you really dodged the bullet on that one. vote: Teproc
Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...
God forbid town have a doctor! you really dodged the bullet on that one. vote: Teproc
Doctor is really not that great, especially because I tend to die early as town and Doctor is mostly good in later days to protect claimed PRs.
Wowza, 5 votes on Robz! that seems a little extreme.He's only barely halfway to a lynch.
I also noticed Robz. I think it would take a great card for him to keep over the investigative-themed card scrying pool is.
Am I the only one who wasn't assuming that there was a strong correlation between attack cards and scum roles? I haven't gone through and counted but it seems like there were a number of attack cards that were connected to town roles and vice-versa.
I assumed there was no relation to card name and role, that it was just randomized.
Vote: robz because early wagons always stagnates, then dies and remain dead for a long time.
Robz is a great player to keep around until the endgame
Vote: robz because early wagons always stagnates, then dies and remain dead for a long time.This seems weird, but also genuine. Townie points.
Robz is a great player to keep around until the endgame
Am I the only one who wasn't assuming that there was a strong correlation between attack cards and scum roles? I haven't gone through and counted but it seems like there were a number of attack cards that were connected to town roles and vice-versa.
I assumed there was no relation to card name and role, that it was just randomized.
Why would we be given a decision then? Scum. vote: robz
I also noticed Robz. I think it would take a great card for him to keep over the investigative-themed card scrying pool is.
I think Robz has stated before that he likes other people to have investigative roles and use them on him, rather than being the one with the investigative role himself. (Though, it's not like he's taking it away from anyone in this case.)Am I the only one who wasn't assuming that there was a strong correlation between attack cards and scum roles? I haven't gone through and counted but it seems like there were a number of attack cards that were connected to town roles and vice-versa.
I assumed there was no relation to card name and role, that it was just randomized.
This is what I had thought too.
I also noticed Robz. I think it would take a great card for him to keep over the investigative-themed card scrying pool is.
I think Robz has stated before that he likes other people to have investigative roles and use them on him, rather than being the one with the investigative role himself. (Though, it's not like he's taking it away from anyone in this case.)Am I the only one who wasn't assuming that there was a strong correlation between attack cards and scum roles? I haven't gone through and counted but it seems like there were a number of attack cards that were connected to town roles and vice-versa.
I assumed there was no relation to card name and role, that it was just randomized.
This is what I had thought too.
It's a wagon! With 139 players, we only need 70 to lynch. Vote guys!This has a grain of truth in it. There are sooo many people here, it'll be hard to get a lynch to actually happen.
And then all of a sudden, after a flare of activity, the forums go completely silent. What happened? Also, I noticed that this is perhaps the first time I'm not lurking on Day1. Probably the lack of schoolwork
I can't believe Robz is ignoring this fat wagon on him. He's even posting in his other game.He clearly needs more votes on him.
Code: [Select]Oh great, another game for me to not follow closely enough...[size=1pt]Partners, please extend RVS as long as possible.[/size]
Vote: robz because early wagons always stagnates, then dies and remain dead for a long time.Wait so are you voting him but you hope he doesn't get lynched?
Robz is a great player to keep around until the endgame
Vote:Robz888
His only post looks a little scummy, but the fact he has not responded to the constant voting on him makes me thinks he is definitely Mafia.
Robz, explanation?
Vote:Robz888
His only post looks a little scummy, but the fact he has not responded to the constant voting on him makes me thinks he is definitely Mafia.
Robz, explanation?
wait what. I think Mafia would have responded right away. Hell, mafia would be more invested in the game to begin with. We should call this what it is if we're doing it: LAL
Well concerning actually reads and stuff, I'm getting a townish vibe from Axxle for his flurry of posts right at the start of the game, I think he tends to be more reserved as scum.
Thats what I said, yes, but secretly, I too would love lynching someone this early.Vote: robz because early wagons always stagnates, then dies and remain dead for a long time.Wait so are you voting him but you hope he doesn't get lynched?
Robz is a great player to keep around until the endgame
I think he knew he'd get a lot of votes for saying that which is what he wanted.
L-2 btw. I kinda would love lynching someone this early honestly.
I feel like Robz starts a lot of games with "meh, D1, wake me up for D2".
I also feel like this is anti-town.
Ergo, lynch all Robzes.
I feel like Robz starts a lot of games with "meh, D1, wake me up for D2".
I also feel like this is anti-town.
Ergo, lynch all Robzes.
I also feel like this is in no way indicative of Robz's alignment, or that if it is, it tends to indicate his towniness.
vote : TA
There's a reason we never lynch this early, it's because it's awful for town. This is trying to appeal for an early lynch in the "wouldn't it be cool ?" way, but it's an awful, awful idea, and TA should know this.
Ok. Back for a little bit. I'm a little lost already. If cards don't really speak to alignment at all--and people don't really know what they were discarding (I didn't), I don't really understand arguments based off of discarding.
Robz wagon is interesting. I have no idea what it is based on. It seems like there's still RVS going on.
Ok. Back for a little bit. I'm a little lost already. If cards don't really speak to alignment at all--and people don't really know what they were discarding (I didn't), I don't really understand arguments based off of discarding.
Robz wagon is interesting. I have no idea what it is based on. It seems like there's still RVS going on.
We're way out of RVS. And again, "interesting" doesn't really mean anything.
PPE : 2
Can you explain to me how it's NOT scummy? It wasn't phrased like "Hey, sorry guys, I won't have time for this", it was phrased as "Hey guys, I'm disinterested, and I want you to know that I'm disinterested!" First one isn't scummy to me, second one is very scummy to me. Why don't you think it was scummy?
I guess I have a different mindset in this game because it's Greater Idea...I am approaching it more RMM/Bastard like the normal. It got changed to be "normalized" with the rerolls and such but it's a huge game with a lot of PRs that may not be completely balanced, so no I am not treating this like a normal game.
I wouldn't be ok lynching Robz early if I didn't think he was scum. But that post was just ridiculous scummy.
Can you explain to me how it's NOT scummy? It wasn't phrased like "Hey, sorry guys, I won't have time for this", it was phrased as "Hey guys, I'm disinterested, and I want you to know that I'm disinterested!" First one isn't scummy to me, second one is very scummy to me. Why don't you think it was scummy?
I think letting him get away with a blatantly scummy post because it's Robz and he always plays like that is stupid, in my eyes it's a scummy post, and scummy posts make the poster more likely to be scum
Ok. Back for a little bit. I'm a little lost already. If cards don't really speak to alignment at all--and people don't really know what they were discarding (I didn't), I don't really understand arguments based off of discarding.
Robz wagon is interesting. I have no idea what it is based on. It seems like there's still RVS going on.
We're way out of RVS. And again, "interesting" doesn't really mean anything.
PPE : 2
Dahh! For the record, a lot of other people use the word interesting too. Maybe I'll cut it out of my vocabularly completely, so as to avoid this. But take a look, there are already 5 uses of this word on this thread. Seriously...
Admittedly, I haven't been following things super closely, but I don't see any "real" cases right now. Furthermore, how can you make assumptions about someone's alignment based upon a decision they made in relative ignorance?
How is that supposed to somehow bypass RVS?
Because we as a community have a track record of letting people get away with scummy behavior because "they wouldn't do that as scum"
Because we as a community have a track record of letting people get away with scummy behavior because "they wouldn't do that as scum"
What matters is not identifying scummy behavior, it's identifying who is scum. If town is doing something scummy, should we feel good about lynching them for it ? Of course not, the goal of this game is to lynch scum, not lynch scummy people.
Because we as a community have a track record of letting people get away with scummy behavior because "they wouldn't do that as scum"
What matters is not identifying scummy behavior, it's identifying who is scum. If town is doing something scummy, should we feel good about lynching them for it ? Of course not, the goal of this game is to lynch scum, not lynch scummy people.
... certainly the former is a step to the latter.
Because we as a community have a track record of letting people get away with scummy behavior because "they wouldn't do that as scum"
What matters is not identifying scummy behavior, it's identifying who is scum. If town is doing something scummy, should we feel good about lynching them for it ? Of course not, the goal of this game is to lynch scum, not lynch scummy people.
... certainly the former is a step to the latter.
What I mean is there is no such thing as objectively "scummy behavior". Everything has to be put in context, and Robz saying "I don't really care about this game" might be scummy if someone else says it, but it's not scummy when Robz does it™.
Because we as a community have a track record of letting people get away with scummy behavior because "they wouldn't do that as scum"
What matters is not identifying scummy behavior, it's identifying who is scum. If town is doing something scummy, should we feel good about lynching them for it ? Of course not, the goal of this game is to lynch scum, not lynch scummy people.
... certainly the former is a step to the latter.
What I mean is there is no such thing as objectively "scummy behavior". Everything has to be put in context, and Robz saying "I don't really care about this game" might be scummy if someone else says it, but it's not scummy when Robz does it™.
...So you're saying Robz is IC now? ??? ::) :P 8)
PPE: interesting!
But seriously, I think it's probably a null tell for Robz. Still, D1 is more fun when we're all talking, isn't itTM Teproc?
PPE: interesting!
Also I'm feeling giddy/goofy today, watch out. ;D ;D ;D ;D
PPE: interesting!
...I knew it.
PPE: interesting!
...I knew it.
By the way I Ctrl+Fed "interesting" in the last few pages and the only other instance was XP (or xeiron, one of those) using it about Axxle's choice of cards, except he elaborated, so I was not being unfair here.
I don't think you're the kind of player who does that stuff as town (as opposed to, say, Axxle).(http://www.gomotes.com/emoticon/skype/skype15.gif)
Welp, that's half the playerlist:PPE 2: It's card of hard to analyze what people discarded because no one knew what they were.Most? of the attack cards are scum roles and I would assume people could guess that. Those who discarded attack cards are probably? less likely to be scum and those who discarded nonattack cards are more likely? to be scum.
It's minor but maybe something to go on for now.
Teproc
iGin
Sp
BA?
ADK
EK
chairs
x
PPE 2: It's card of hard to analyze what people discarded because no one knew what they were.Most? of the attack cards are scum roles and I would assume people could guess that. Those who discarded attack cards are probably? less likely to be scum and those who discarded nonattack cards are more likely? to be scum.
It's minor but maybe something to go on for now.
I dunno, I discarded Trader cause it sounded lame, but I definitely didn't think it was a mafia role but it ended up being one. I don't know what we can read into it honestly, I guess what stuck out most was Xerxes discarding Young Witch (which was definitely scum). Maybe Xerxes likes town more, maybe he had two scum roles, I don't know how we're supposed to deduce which is true besides guessing?
I'd choose town > scum, I think a lot of people would too given the choice (I am pretty sure Shraeye would, I think Voltaire would?) I think people who haven't had a scum role before are more likely to pick scum, though, which is a point against newer players (as unfair as that is)
There was a BM game where all scum had the option to choose VT instead of scum. Robz, Voltaire, and Chairs all elected to be scum, so that could speak to an inclination to choose scum over town.
I'd choose town > scum, I think a lot of people would too given the choice (I am pretty sure Shraeye would, I think Voltaire would?) I think people who haven't had a scum role before are more likely to pick scum, though, which is a point against newer players (as unfair as that is)
Correct. I've gotten better at enjoying it, but I'm bad at scum and the first time I was scum I was realllllllllllly close to quitting mafia forever, it made me so miserable.
Slight scum read on the person who discarded Fortress: that looks like a sure take.
Also, why on earth is taxman a compulsive child killer?
Also, Nik. Why vote Voltaire And then just leave?Do you mean not give a reason? My reason is that earlier in the thread, I thought Volitare claimed he was Mafia, based on this:QuoteI AM IN MAFIA AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINNow I realize he was talking about the game Mafia, not the Mafia faction. So, Unvote.
I'd choose town > scum, I think a lot of people would too given the choice (I am pretty sure Shraeye would, I think Voltaire would?) I think people who haven't had a scum role before are more likely to pick scum, though, which is a point against newer players (as unfair as that is)
Correct. I've gotten better at enjoying it, but I'm bad at scum and the first time I was scum I was realllllllllllly close to quitting mafia forever, it made me so miserable.
I've only ever been scum once. I don't think I'm that great at either, but I at least enjoy playing town more I think. I think it took me a little while to get that first time game as scum out of my system--as people still found me scummy in HoC and I think only my doc claim kept me from getting lynched.
Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...
God forbid town have a doctor! you really dodged the bullet on that one. vote: Teproc
I feel like Robz starts a lot of games with "meh, D1, wake me up for D2".
I also feel like this is anti-town.
Ergo, lynch all Robzes.
The thing that is making Robz seem more and more scummier to me is that he hasn't posted anything. If he's lurking, he would at least see all the votes on him and would probably offer an explanation...but he hasn't. Is he just not paying attention?
Oh. In that case, Unvote.The thing that is making Robz seem more and more scummier to me is that he hasn't posted anything. If he's lurking, he would at least see all the votes on him and would probably offer an explanation...but he hasn't. Is he just not paying attention?
I think Robz is busy with RL stuff (I think he posted in the VLA thread), so not responding to the wagon right away is expected regardless of his alignment.
Unvote
Mine was not a real vote, and I don't think all of the votes on him are either. Robz has been basically away and barely posting in all his games for a couple of weeks.
But this isn't blitz, a 24-hour day one is probably a bad idea.
Unvote
Mine was not a real vote, and I don't think all of the votes on him are either. Robz has been basically away and barely posting in all his games for a couple of weeks.
That's a cop-out, consider my vote on you serious.
Town read on Voltaire so far.
Looking back, TA's complaints about the setup looks a little like he got a scum role when he didn't want on. Or maybe he's just something lame like VT or Universal Miller.
I'd be fine with a Robz lynch later, he hasn't done himself any favors here. But this isn't blitz, a 24-hour day one is probably a bad idea.
WW is likelier scum if Robz is town.
Your vote didn't seem particularly joke-y to me, and you retracting it and claiming that it was when Robz was within lynch range is suspicious.
Just because someone has humorous tone to their vote doesn't mean they don't intend to follow through. Do you think Robz is town? Why?
I believe Axxle is our best bet for hitting scum today.Yeah but no.
-He likes to play scum.
-He claimed to to pick the scummy card in the first draft.
-He had at least one scummy card to choose from in the second draft.
Vote: Axxle
I believe Axxle is our best bet for hitting scum today.
-He likes to play scum.
-He claimed to to pick the scummy card in the first draft.
-He had at least one scummy card to choose from in the second draft.
Vote: Axxle
PPE 2: It's card of hard to analyze what people discarded because no one knew what they were.Most? of the attack cards are scum roles and I would assume people could guess that. Those who discarded attack cards are probably? less likely to be scum and those who discarded nonattack cards are more likely? to be scum.
It's minor but maybe something to go on for now.
Well I kinda want to wagon Axxle, but I have a town read on him thus far.Why would you even consider wagoning him if you have a town read on him?
Well I kinda want to wagon Axxle, but I have a town read on him thus far.Why would you even consider wagoning him if you have a town read on him?
Just for fun?
Well I kinda want to wagon Axxle, but I have a town read on him thus far.Why would you even consider wagoning him if you have a town read on him?
Just for fun?
Well I kinda want to wagon Axxle, but I have a town read on him thus far.Why would you even consider wagoning him if you have a town read on him?
Just for fun?
I'd consider voting him to join the wagon, except I have a town read on him, so I'm not going to. Isn't that what I just said?
Well I kinda want to wagon Axxle, but I have a town read on him thus far.Why would you even consider wagoning him if you have a town read on him?
Just for fun?
I'd consider voting him to join the wagon, except I have a town read on him, so I'm not going to. Isn't that what I just said?
Isn't that not what he asked?
Well I kinda want to wagon Axxle, but I have a town read on him thus far.Why would you even consider wagoning him if you have a town read on him?
Just for fun?
I'd consider voting him to join the wagon, except I have a town read on him, so I'm not going to. Isn't that what I just said?
Isn't that not what he asked?
I see we're deliberately trying to sow confusion by using double negation...
TA's position makes sense here : wagons are good, they create interactions, make votes meaningful etc.
Well I kinda want to wagon Axxle, but I have a town read on him thus far.Why would you even consider wagoning him if you have a town read on him?
Just for fun?
I'd consider voting him to join the wagon, except I have a town read on him, so I'm not going to. Isn't that what I just said?
Isn't that not what he asked?
I see we're deliberately trying to sow confusion by using double negation...
TA's position makes sense here : wagons are good, they create interactions, make votes meaningful etc.
But more to the point, why is TA pointing out to us that he would want to vote for the sake of being on a wagon in the first place? He could have simply stated that he doesn't agree with the votes and has a town read on Axxle.
But more to the point, why is TA pointing out to us that he would want to vote for the sake of being on a wagon in the first place? He could have simply stated that he doesn't agree with the votes and has a town read on Axxle.
But more to the point, why is TA pointing out to us that he would want to vote for the sake of being on a wagon in the first place? He could have simply stated that he doesn't agree with the votes and has a town read on Axxle.
But more to the point, why is TA pointing out to us that he would want to vote for the sake of being on a wagon in the first place? He could have simply stated that he doesn't agree with the votes and has a town read on Axxle.
Exactly. It's this. "I feel one way, but I'm not going to actually follow through on it". Hedging/covering yourself that reads scummy to me.
PPE: 2
But more to the point, why is TA pointing out to us that he would want to vote for the sake of being on a wagon in the first place? He could have simply stated that he doesn't agree with the votes and has a town read on Axxle.
Because I like wagons? I understand your point on wagons but I disagree with it.
Re: Teproc, people ask questions I answer. It's ridiculous to ask someone a question asking for further justification, and then call that person scummy because "they needed to justify what they were doing"
But more to the point, why is TA pointing out to us that he would want to vote for the sake of being on a wagon in the first place? He could have simply stated that he doesn't agree with the votes and has a town read on Axxle.
Because I like wagons? I understand your point on wagons but I disagree with it.
Re: Teproc, people ask questions I answer. It's ridiculous to ask someone a question asking for further justification, and then call that person scummy because "they needed to justify what they were doing"
Well I kinda want to wagon Axxle, but I have a town read on him thus far.
Right, I like wagons, and I'd like to have one on Axxle, BUT, I think he's town, so I don't want to vote him. Oh look, this is the exact same thing I said
Right, I like wagons, and I'd like to have one on Axxle, BUT, I think he's town, so I don't want to vote him. Oh look, this is the exact same thing I said
What ? I get the feeling that you're not reading the same thread. I'm saying that you're scummy (among other things) for feeling the need to express this, not disagreeing with the sentiment itself.
I think everyone who's jumping all over TA for that post is being silly...he's scum because he stated his thought process without being asked? That's something town should do. If everyone just stayed silent all game unless prompted by another player, things would be super slow and we would never get anywhere.I'm not saying he's scum. Just that I don't see much of a town rational behind what he posted.
I'm talking more to Ichi and WW, who both immediately quoted the post and said it was scummy that I wanted a wagon on Axxle even though I think he's town (which isn't what I was saying). I'm fine with your vote although you are obviously wrong :)
I think everyone who's jumping all over TA for that post is being silly...he's scum because he stated his thought process without being asked? That's something town should do. If everyone just stayed silent all game unless prompted by another player, things would be super slow and we would never get anywhere.I'm not saying he's scum. Just that I don't see much of a town rational behind what he posted.
I think everyone who's jumping all over TA for that post is being silly...he's scum because he stated his thought process without being asked? That's something town should do. If everyone just stayed silent all game unless prompted by another player, things would be super slow and we would never get anywhere.I'm not saying he's scum. Just that I don't see much of a town rational behind what he posted.
I don't think anyone is advocating being silent, or playing a game with only impassive logical statements.
But why did TA post what he did? By the way, I know absolutely nothing about his meta. How long has he been playing?
I think everyone who's jumping all over TA for that post is being silly...he's scum because he stated his thought process without being asked? That's something town should do. If everyone just stayed silent all game unless prompted by another player, things would be super slow and we would never get anywhere.
I mean, I guess I'm saying in general, town should be as transparent as possible, just post whatever you're thinking all the time (relevant to the game of course, you don't need to tell us what you're eating for dinner tonight (but you can if you want)). If town does this, then we can either pick out scum by the fact that they're not as open as town, or by identifying slips or things that look scummy.
I mean, I guess I'm saying in general, town should be as transparent as possible, just post whatever you're thinking all the time (relevant to the game of course, you don't need to tell us what you're eating for dinner tonight (but you can if you want)). If town does this, then we can either pick out scum by the fact that they're not as open as town, or by identifying slips or things that look scummy.
I strongly disagree.
I mean, I guess I'm saying in general, town should be as transparent as possible, just post whatever you're thinking all the time (relevant to the game of course, you don't need to tell us what you're eating for dinner tonight (but you can if you want)). If town does this, then we can either pick out scum by the fact that they're not as open as town, or by identifying slips or things that look scummy.
I strongly disagree.
Do you want to explain? I mean, that is the impression I've gotten from better players over the several games that I've played. I admit that I don't actually play like that as town, I actually do think a lot about what I'm saying, double check to make sure I haven't said anything that could misconstrued as scummy, and avoid giving reads on players without being prompted, but I've been trying to break myself of those things because it seems like people think that kind of play is bad for town (and I understand the reasoning for thinking that).
You might have other reasons for voting TA, that's fine (I think WW's explanation makes more sense), I'm just saying that I don't think an argument like "TA is scummy because he gave us some information about his thought process that he could have withheld" is reasonable.
I don't get the confusion, I have a town read on him so I'm not voting him, if I didn't have a town read on him I'd consider joining the wagon, what's unclear/confusing about that? You can ask me for clarification but when the original statement is clear you aren't gonna get anything by asking for repeated clarifications.
I mean, I guess I'm saying in general, town should be as transparent as possible, just post whatever you're thinking all the time (relevant to the game of course, you don't need to tell us what you're eating for dinner tonight (but you can if you want)). If town does this, then we can either pick out scum by the fact that they're not as open as town, or by identifying slips or things that look scummy.
I strongly disagree.
Sometimes it's good to wagon on your townreads to verify things. Scientific method: Try to disprove your hypotheses rather than affirm them.I think everyone who's jumping all over TA for that post is being silly...he's scum because he stated his thought process without being asked? That's something town should do. If everyone just stayed silent all game unless prompted by another player, things would be super slow and we would never get anywhere.I'm not saying he's scum. Just that I don't see much of a town rational behind what he posted.
Hey, I like wagons, so if I didn't have a town read on Axxle I'd probably vote him here. But, I DO have a town read on Axxle, so I'm not voting here.
Why could that not come from town? Why does this need to be a scum thought pattern?
Wait, so what's the case on Axxle? That he admitted that he was hoping for scum from his pick and that he talked about the connection between attack cards and scum roles?
I believe Axxle is our best bet for hitting scum today.
-He likes to play scum.
-He claimed to to pick the scummy card in the first draft.
-He had at least one scummy card to choose from in the second draft.
Vote: Axxle
I think this is the most compelling thing so far. Axxle was also the first to bring up "discarding Attack cards make you less likely to be scum":PPE 2: It's card of hard to analyze what people discarded because no one knew what they were.Most? of the attack cards are scum roles and I would assume people could guess that. Those who discarded attack cards are probably? less likely to be scum and those who discarded nonattack cards are more likely? to be scum.
It's minor but maybe something to go on for now.
And he pointed out without prompting that he discarded an attack card the first time.
Vote: Axxle
The more I think about it the more I think this is the very specific situation where a D1 lynch based on meta is good.
I'd be all for joining the Axxle wagon, but I think he's town here, so I'm not going to vote him.You *should* join my wagon! As in the wagon that I just started on Nik.
Vote: NikNo, I do actaully think you're scum, for the reasons Xeiron described.
I get a scummy "If I do what the rest of the town does they'll think I'm town!" vibe from him.
I got that feeling with your Robz vote too.Vote: NikNo, I do actaully think you're scum, for the reasons Xeiron described.
I get a scummy "If I do what the rest of the town does they'll think I'm town!" vibe from him.
@mod: can you add this to the OP?
(P.S. here's the link to the list of roles and the cards they correspond with: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13g_JHb8dAMRpSN9-ndteSvH2NE8w_4GmJV-Wr_jJLqQ/edit?usp=sharing)
Vote: Nik
I get a scummy "If I do what the rest of the town does they'll think I'm town!" vibe from him.
I'd guess there are... 1.8 scum on my wagon.Vote: Nik
I get a scummy "If I do what the rest of the town does they'll think I'm town!" vibe from him.
Do you think that all/most of the other people voting for you are town?
I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do. I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style. But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.
vote: Nik
I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do. I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style. But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.
vote: Nik
Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik
Hmm. Looks like OMGUS to me.I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do. I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style. But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.
vote: Nik
Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik
This says absolutely nothing about his play this game. Very little content or analysis.
vote:ichi
Seriously. This post just reads vindictive to me. Look, sorry if I offended you. I was just expressing my opinion about what you posted.I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do. I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style. But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.
vote: Nik
Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik
This says absolutely nothing about his play this game. Very little content or analysis.
vote:ichi
Don't worry ichi you didn't offend me at all. Very sorry if it came off that way!
I just think your post doesnt reference niks behavior this game at all, which I found scummy.
I think TA's reaction to the wagon is townie. I let my vote linger a bit but nothing is happening there anyway, so let's unvote
Nik seems to be playing the same game as in HoC... which he shouldn't, it got him mislynched there, but you know.
People on the Axxle wagon : is there anything based on play to this case ? Because I'm not a big fan of lynching purely based on meta, even though the setup does encourage it.
After reading so far what stands out most is Axxle - he claims selecting attack in first draw, says that people discarding attacks are more likely to be town, and he did discarded attack.
So for now Vote:Axxle
This is exactly what I previously said, and adds nothing to the discussion. Also, "town", not "we". It's pretty much a completely safe thing to say, that isn't very useful.Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...
God forbid town have a doctor! you really dodged the bullet on that one. vote: Teproc
Also, this.Wowza, 5 votes on Robz! that seems a little extreme.He's only barely halfway to a lynch.
vote: joth I was scum and got scum points for caring too much about L's. It's not something obvious, so it's a better tell.
Making this sort of presumptions about what scum would or would not choose to do is bad reasoning that helps scum. This post is the sort of thing that scum would post about either town or scum, so that in the first place, the idea that it's LAL means that it's harder to analyze the wagon, and if it's scum, makes people think it's more likely that the wagon will fizzle off once people develop stronger reads, which makes robz less likely to be lynched.Vote:Robz888wait what. I think Mafia would have responded right away. Hell, mafia would be more invested in the game to begin with. We should call this what it is if we're doing it: LAL
His only post looks a little scummy, but the fact he has not responded to the constant voting on him makes me thinks he is definitely Mafia.
Robz, explanation?
Sell me on it, Axxle. what's the case?Lastly, this sort of question feels gut scummy to me. Pretending objectivity, but then getting the flexibility means that scum doesn't need to precommit.
I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do. I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style. But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.
vote: Nik
Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik
Yeah you're right, it doesn't come off as very serious does it.I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do. I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style. But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.
vote: Nik
Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik
Ichimaru, Do you think saying "I do not really suspect Nik, but votes to put pressure on him" is the best way to put pressure on Nik?
What has nik done this game that's scummy?I believe it was jumping on the Axxle wagon.
What has nik done this game that's scummy?Axxle made a good point in Nik just sheeping town.
I AM IN MAFIA AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINNow I realize he was talking about the game Mafia, not the Mafia faction. So, Unvote.
This is the proper quotation.Also, Nik. Why vote Voltaire And then just leave?Do you mean not give a reason? My reason is that earlier in the thread, I thought Volitare claimed he was Mafia, based on this:QuoteI AM IN MAFIA AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINNow I realize he was talking about the game Mafia, not the Mafia faction. So, Unvote.
What has nik done this game that's scummy?Axxle made a good point in Nik just sheeping town.
It's a failure of language. Town as in people in this game, not the faction.What has nik done this game that's scummy?Axxle made a good point in Nik just sheeping town.
Again, what's with the assumption that people Nik is sheeping are all town?
The wagon on Nik is insane. I still like an Axxle wagon, but if that doesn't happen I feel like there has to be scum amongst the Nik voters and I would look there.Is there even a wagon on Nik?
Don't you agree that it's bad when town looks like scum?
Well...considering the mistake I made in HoC, and I do trust your reads. I'd say for now I'll give Nik the benefit of the doubt.Don't you agree that it's bad when town looks like scum?
Yes, but this is Nik's second game, right? There is a different between new town and scum. They can look similar, but telling the difference is my one specialty.
Don't you agree that it's bad when town looks like scum?
Don't you agree that it's bad when town looks like scum?
It's not that I disagree, it's just that it's completely beside the point. The point is to find scum, not to teach people how to play the game. Voting for Nik because you find his town play to be anti-town is basically a policy vote, which are bad because you need to be playing for you wincon THIS game, not for future games.
That being said, I don't find the mini-wagon on Nik scummy. How many games has he been in ? HoC and that's it right ? Unless he is in the BM game but that's ongoing so no one can comment on it anyway. WHich means not that many people have played with him.
I'm completely null on Nik. I don't think there's anything to indicate that he's any more likely to be town/scum than whatever the unmodified probability is.
Teproc does have a point. We want to play to win this game and not to make players better.
@Ichi: The alignments were chosen with the roles.. mail-mi posted all the possible ones. We only know that there is a check on balance. (We rerolled once because it wasn't balanced.)
Don't you agree that it's bad when town looks like scum?
It's not that I disagree, it's just that it's completely beside the point. The point is to find scum, not to teach people how to play the game. Voting for Nik because you find his town play to be anti-town is basically a policy vote, which are bad because you need to be playing for you wincon THIS game, not for future games.
That being said, I don't find the mini-wagon on Nik scummy. How many games has he been in ? HoC and that's it right ? Unless he is in the BM game but that's ongoing so no one can comment on it anyway. WHich means not that many people have played with him.I'm completely null on Nik. I don't think there's anything to indicate that he's any more likely to be town/scum than whatever the unmodified probability is.
Teproc does have a point. We want to play to win this game and not to make players better.
Yeah. It probably wasn't the most productive thing. But hey, I'm not that experienced myself.
At any rate, it doesn't seem like much interaction surrounding this issue tells us much.
Hmm. Having never played a game with this many players, it's a different sort of experience. I seem to remember some sort of conversation like this in a game I was following. And I think people found the person asking it scummy, I'm gonna ask it anyway though.
With, what 16 people in the game, does the scumteam scale up in size? Like are we likely looking at a 4 person team, or is that not something we can determine?
I like Axxle, and TA as well, in that order.I mean that people, even me, use "town" to talk about both players in the game and players that are aligned with the town faction.
What Xerxes said about Joth was interesting (TM ), but I haven't had a chance to go back and read and really think about it.
Also a bit unsure about the "failure of language" comment. Is that saying that English isn't a first language, or that you just misspoke? (This is directed to Axxle.)
I like Axxle, and TA as well, in that order.I mean that people, even me, use "town" to talk about both players in the game and players that are aligned with the town faction.
What Xerxes said about Joth was interesting (TM ), but I haven't had a chance to go back and read and really think about it.
Also a bit unsure about the "failure of language" comment. Is that saying that English isn't a first language, or that you just misspoke? (This is directed to Axxle.)
2 more!::)
Yeah, the 9 other people haven't changed their votes. But where else do we look? Maybe this is OMGUS, but I thought it was weird and kind of scummy that he would vote for me not because he thought I was scum, but because he thought I don't play right.2 more!::)
I really don't think you're going to lynch me today so you can look elsewhere.
Yeah, the 9 other people haven't changed their votes. But where else do we look? Maybe this is OMGUS, but I thought it was weird and kind of scummy that he would vote for me not because he thought I was scum, but because he thought I don't play right.2 more!::)
I really don't think you're going to lynch me today so you can look elsewhere.
Also, /prod Beyond Awesome.
2 more!::)
I really don't think you're going to lynch me today so you can look elsewhere.
I wasn't trying to say that you weren't playing the game "right". People play this game in a lot of different ways.Yeah, the 9 other people haven't changed their votes. But where else do we look? Maybe this is OMGUS, but I thought it was weird and kind of scummy that he would vote for me not because he thought I was scum, but because he thought I don't play right.2 more!::)
I really don't think you're going to lynch me today so you can look elsewhere.
Also, /prod Beyond Awesome.
Since we're prodding newbies : request a prod on Beyond Awesome.
Welcome to mafia, Beyond Awesome. This is your first game, right? FYI your vote puts Axxle at L-1, meaning he's one vote away from being lynched, which is a precarious position to be in because one vote on him will end the day. Because of that it's usually good form to announce when your vote puts someone at L-1.
I can't believe we are lynching Axxle? He's like the one person I actually have a town read on.I have to agree with TA here. Why does beyond awesome want to lynch Axxle?
I can't believe we are lynching Axxle? He's like the one person I actually have a town read on.I have to agree with TA here. Why does beyond awesome want to lynch Axxle?
I can't believe we are lynching Axxle? He's like the one person I actually have a town read on.I have to agree with TA here. Why does beyond awesome want to lynch Axxle?
Well, lots of people are voting for him, and the case isn't bad. I get a town read on Beyond Awesome from it. I don't think first game scum is going to jump on a late wagon without pretending to have an explanation.
I can't believe we are lynching Axxle? He's like the one person I actually have a town read on.I have to agree with TA here. Why does beyond awesome want to lynch Axxle?
Well, lots of people are voting for him, and the case isn't bad. I get a town read on Beyond Awesome from it. I don't think first game scum is going to jump on a late wagon without pretending to have an explanation.
I can't believe we are lynching Axxle? He's like the one person I actually have a town read on.I have to agree with TA here. Why does beyond awesome want to lynch Axxle?
Well, lots of people are voting for him, and the case isn't bad. I get a town read on Beyond Awesome from it. I don't think first game scum is going to jump on a late wagon without pretending to have an explanation.
I can't believe we are lynching Axxle? He's like the one person I actually have a town read on.I have to agree with TA here. Why does beyond awesome want to lynch Axxle?
Well, lots of people are voting for him, and the case isn't bad. I get a town read on Beyond Awesome from it. I don't think first game scum is going to jump on a late wagon without pretending to have an explanation.
Complete agreement with this.
Welcome to mafia, Beyond Awesome. This is your first game, right? FYI your vote puts Axxle at L-1, meaning he's one vote away from being lynched, which is a precarious position to be in because one vote on him will end the day. Because of that it's usually good form to announce when your vote puts someone at L-1.
Yes, this is my first game. How do I do announce that? Do I put in bold that Axxle is at L-1?
Xeiron, we have some guarantee of balance from mail-mi. So it might not be super balanced but its also not super unbalanced -- so probably like 4-7 scum is a good guess. High number is possible with lots of teams.
Hey guys, haven't caught up but.
I am at a wedding this weekend so I haven't been on much, and unfortuately I'm on a train with no wifi all day tomorrow. So you might not see much of me. When is deadline? Is my vote desperately needed somewhere? What's this case on Axxle all about?
Jonah
Hey guys, haven't caught up but.
I am at a wedding this weekend so I haven't been on much, and unfortuately I'm on a train with no wifi all day tomorrow. So you might not see much of me. When is deadline? Is my vote desperately needed somewhere? What's this case on Axxle all about?
Jonah
Deadline is wednesday. Still over three days left.
The case on Axxle is that he is someone likely to pick scum over town if given the choice. That is quite significant, since in this game, we actually did pick our own allignent.
I find it very strange that you picked either Nobles or Governor over Mountebank though. Didn't want to be scum after all ?
I find it very strange that you picked either Nobles or Governor over Mountebank though. Didn't want to be scum after all ?I picked governor since I forgot that we're doing great idea and not a upick on the second go around. Governor sounded like some fun joat/inventor variant :-[
I can cause someone not to be lynched for a day, I chose myself.I find it very strange that you picked either Nobles or Governor over Mountebank though. Didn't want to be scum after all ?
Wait! What does govern mean?
I can cause someone not to be lynched for a day, I chose myself.I find it very strange that you picked either Nobles or Governor over Mountebank though. Didn't want to be scum after all ?
Wait! What does govern mean?
I can cause someone not to be lynched for a day, I chose myself.I find it very strange that you picked either Nobles or Governor over Mountebank though. Didn't want to be scum after all ?
Wait! What does govern mean?
Well mail-mi changed the vote count accordingly. So I think so.
Is this for real real?
I can cause someone not to be lynched for a day, I chose myself.I find it very strange that you picked either Nobles or Governor over Mountebank though. Didn't want to be scum after all ?
Wait! What does govern mean?
Is this for real real?
So Axxle has a 50% chance of being scum now?Yeah. I was going to ask. Is governor a town ability? Or can it also be for scum?
So Axxle has a 50% chance of being scum now?Yeah. I was going to ask. Is governor a town ability? Or can it also be for scum?
Wait. Nevermind. I took a look at the role list. Now I understand TA's comment.
Hmm. There are so many people playing this game, it's a little hard to keep track. I think Beyond Awesome's vote on Axxle was really scummy.
Teproc brought up my behavior in my first game--and it makes sense to me. I ended up surviving probably way longer than I should have as scum, because people thought that I wouldn't act as scummy as I did.
I'm gonna vote: Beyond Awesome
Also, he never answered or made any elaboration about why he voted for Axxle.
So Axxle has a 50% chance of being scum now?Yeah. I was going to ask. Is governor a town ability? Or can it also be for scum?
Wait. Nevermind. I took a look at the role list. Now I understand TA's comment.
Hmm. There are so many people playing this game, it's a little hard to keep track. I think Beyond Awesome's vote on Axxle was really scummy.
Teproc brought up my behavior in my first game--and it makes sense to me. I ended up surviving probably way longer than I should have as scum, because people thought that I wouldn't act as scummy as I did.
I'm gonna vote: Beyond Awesome
Also, he never answered or made any elaboration about why he voted for Axxle.
The reason I voted for Axxle was because a lot of people felt he was scum or at least stated as such, so I jumped on the bandwagon prematurely without fully realizing the ramifications of my actions. I see now that my vote could have made me look like scum because it looks like I might have been trying to eliminate a potential towns person. I'm starting to understand the game better where if you are scum you want to convince both scum and towns people to eliminate towns people. I did not fully grasp that concept at first.
Well at least Axxle gave us some time to figure this out. I'm also leaning town on him because picking Governor over Mountebank makes a bit more sense than picking Nobles.
Ichimaru Gin is giving me a bit of a vibe. Like he's trying to buddy up to people. Vote: Ichimaru
Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.
I can see the logic behind this argument. Truth is, I haven't really found anyone really scummy so far. There have been a few people I've had mild scumreads on, pushed them, and they've responded well enough. In a setup this large, I think it could be easier for scum to hide just in the sheer number of players (and low participation players) to avoid attention.Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.
There's an argument that being too easily convinced of other player's towniness is a scum trait. Scum has to fake reads on people, and when a scum player puts out "scumreads" that are then responded to, it's hard to gauge whether the response would convince you as town, because you already know the person's alignment.
Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.Your votes not on me anymore since I can't be lynched.
Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.
It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.
My vote stands on Axxle
Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.Your votes not on me anymore since I can't be lynched.
Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.
It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.
My vote stands on Axxle
Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.
There's an argument that being too easily convinced of other player's towniness is a scum trait. Scum has to fake reads on people, and when a scum player puts out "scumreads" that are then responded to, it's hard to gauge whether the response would convince you as town, because you already know the person's alignment.
Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.
Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.
It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.
My vote stands on Axxle
Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.
Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.
It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.
My vote stands on Axxle
I feel it was scummy of Xeiron to want to vote on Axxle again. There is a 50/50 chance that Axxle is Nobles, but I think it is more likely that he is Governor.
Also, nobody responded to my joth case and he's hasn't posted anything recently.
Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.
Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.
It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.
My vote stands on Axxle
I feel it was scummy of Xeiron to want to vote on Axxle again. There is a 50/50 chance that Axxle is Nobles, but I think it is more likely that he is Governor.
Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.
Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.
It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.
My vote stands on Axxle
I feel it was scummy of Xeiron to want to vote on Axxle again. There is a 50/50 chance that Axxle is Nobles, but I think it is more likely that he is Governor.
The last two parts of your sentence contradict each other. Why does the fact(?) that he's more likely to be town mean that xeiron's vote is scummy?
I think the vote is towny, because as scum you'd know that he isn't lying and would have little reason (besides taking up time) for "checking" if he's really a governor.
Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.
Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.
It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.
My vote stands on Axxle
I feel it was scummy of Xeiron to want to vote on Axxle again. There is a 50/50 chance that Axxle is Nobles, but I think it is more likely that he is Governor.
Why do you think this Governors is more likely than Nobles? Do you have some special insight into how Axxle thinks?
This is exactly what I previously said, and adds nothing to the discussion. Also, "town", not "we". It's pretty much a completely safe thing to say, that isn't very useful.Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...
God forbid town have a doctor! you really dodged the bullet on that one. vote: TeprocAlso, this.Wowza, 5 votes on Robz! that seems a little extreme.He's only barely halfway to a lynch.
vote: joth I was scum and got scum points for caring too much about L's. It's not something obvious, so it's a better tell.Making this sort of presumptions about what scum would or would not choose to do is bad reasoning that helps scum. This post is the sort of thing that scum would post about either town or scum, so that in the first place, the idea that it's LAL means that it's harder to analyze the wagon, and if it's scum, makes people think it's more likely that the wagon will fizzle off once people develop stronger reads, which makes robz less likely to be lynched.Vote:Robz888wait what. I think Mafia would have responded right away. Hell, mafia would be more invested in the game to begin with. We should call this what it is if we're doing it: LAL
His only post looks a little scummy, but the fact he has not responded to the constant voting on him makes me thinks he is definitely Mafia.
Robz, explanation?Sell me on it, Axxle. what's the case?Lastly, this sort of question feels gut scummy to me. Pretending objectivity, but then getting the flexibility means that scum doesn't need to precommit.
Axxle claimed governor, thats awesome. And it makes me want to lynch him even more.
Say we do lynch him. Two things may happend.
- He dies because he lied about being governor. Good for us, because he probably wouldn't lie as town.
- He do not die. Meaning he really is governor.
It really is a fortunate situation, being able to lynch someone if and only if they are lying. The downside is that we will no-lynch if Axxle saves himself, but I think that checking this claim is just as good use of the lynch as lynching someone else at semi-random.
My vote stands on Axxle
I feel it was scummy of Xeiron to want to vote on Axxle again. There is a 50/50 chance that Axxle is Nobles, but I think it is more likely that he is Governor.
The last two parts of your sentence contradict each other. Why does the fact(?) that he's more likely to be town mean that xeiron's vote is scummy?
I think the vote is towny, because as scum you'd know that he isn't lying and would have little reason (besides taking up time) for "checking" if he's really a governor.
I felt it was more of a scum move because of how I interpreted the Governor ability to work. I thought the ability worked that once per round you can save someone from being lynched so I took that to mean that if people gang up on you again then your ability won't work for that round. But, it seems that how the ability actually works is that no votes can be cast for that person for that round. In other words, based on how I thought the ability to work, it would be better in Day 2 to vote on Axxle to see if he is really Governor or not.
Vote: Ichimaru Gin
Not only did he vote for me only because he thought I wasn't playing right, but he also claims he thinks people are scum, questions them, then backs off. Very scummy.
This is exactly what I previously said, and adds nothing to the discussion. Also, "town", not "we". It's pretty much a completely safe thing to say, that isn't very useful.Yeah, discarding Fortress was not good. One-Shot Bulletproof is perfect forme, for some reason I thought it would be a protective role (ie Doctor variant) rather than something that actually protected me...
God forbid town have a doctor! you really dodged the bullet on that one. vote: TeprocAlso, this.Wowza, 5 votes on Robz! that seems a little extreme.He's only barely halfway to a lynch.
vote: joth I was scum and got scum points for caring too much about L's. It's not something obvious, so it's a better tell.Making this sort of presumptions about what scum would or would not choose to do is bad reasoning that helps scum. This post is the sort of thing that scum would post about either town or scum, so that in the first place, the idea that it's LAL means that it's harder to analyze the wagon, and if it's scum, makes people think it's more likely that the wagon will fizzle off once people develop stronger reads, which makes robz less likely to be lynched.Vote:Robz888wait what. I think Mafia would have responded right away. Hell, mafia would be more invested in the game to begin with. We should call this what it is if we're doing it: LAL
His only post looks a little scummy, but the fact he has not responded to the constant voting on him makes me thinks he is definitely Mafia.
Robz, explanation?Sell me on it, Axxle. what's the case?Lastly, this sort of question feels gut scummy to me. Pretending objectivity, but then getting the flexibility means that scum doesn't need to precommit.
I know this isn't very big, but I really think some of these posts (and they're most of his) are pretty scummy.
Hey guys, haven't caught up but.
I am at a wedding this weekend so I haven't been on much, and unfortuately I'm on a train with no wifi all day tomorrow. So you might not see much of me. When is deadline? Is my vote desperately needed somewhere? What's this case on Axxle all about?
Jonah
What is becoming a pattern?Vote: Ichimaru Gin
Not only did he vote for me only because he thought I wasn't playing right, but he also claims he thinks people are scum, questions them, then backs off. Very scummy.
This is starting to become a pattern, just saying.
One thing we haven't seen much of yet is analysis of the axxle wagon from axxle himself. Now that you're not in danger of being lynched, do you have any reads based on what went down?
What is becoming a pattern?Vote: Ichimaru Gin
Not only did he vote for me only because he thought I wasn't playing right, but he also claims he thinks people are scum, questions them, then backs off. Very scummy.
This is starting to become a pattern, just saying.
One thing we haven't seen much of yet is analysis of the axxle wagon from axxle himself. Now that you're not in danger of being lynched, do you have any reads based on what went down?
Also: Chairs is allegedly in this game. Don't think we've seen him for days.Yeah. I almost forgot he was playing.
Also: Chairs is allegedly in this game. Don't think we've seen him for days.Yeah. I almost forgot he was playing.
I'm still a little unsure about Nik. I agree with what ADK said. And it's also pretty obvious he (Nik) didn't read my reply to his last post. So I wonder how closely he's following.
So I thought Robz would be back, but he just came to post some non-content. What's your status, Robz? No thoughts on you almost getting lynched here?
Yeah. That's the thing. I haven't seen Nik as scum before, so I'm not sure how to interpret his behavior.Also: Chairs is allegedly in this game. Don't think we've seen him for days.Yeah. I almost forgot he was playing.
I'm still a little unsure about Nik. I agree with what ADK said. And it's also pretty obvious he (Nik) didn't read my reply to his last post. So I wonder how closely he's following.
Well, that's pretty similar to what he was doing in HoC.
So I thought Robz would be back, but he just came to post some non-content. What's your status, Robz? No thoughts on you almost getting lynched here?
I almost got lynched? When did I almost get lynched? Two people are voting for me.
I haven't kept up to date with the thread, and there are a million people in this game. At least I'm dead in one of my other games, though, so I can try to catch up soon.
Vote: ChairsHe had five posts the first day after we started, but nothing more.
I think all he posted was an /in. Lurker.
So I thought Robz would be back, but he just came to post some non-content. What's your status, Robz? No thoughts on you almost getting lynched here?
I almost got lynched? When did I almost get lynched? Two people are voting for me.
I haven't kept up to date with the thread, and there are a million people in this game. At least I'm dead in one of my other games, though, so I can try to catch up soon.
This is now starting to sound like forced disinterest to me. I know you've been away, but you didn't glance in at all and see any of the 2-3 pages of votes/discussions regarding you?
I think this is my arbitrary lynch pool based on vote counts.
A Drowned Kernel - 19xeiron - 16Nik - 14
scott_pilgrim - 10
jotheonah - 9Beyond Awesome - 7
Robz888 - 6
And look, s_p is in there! Let's lynch him. Or anyone else within that group I think. No, not BA. No, not Nik. Preferably not xeiron (meta, good at setup/role/theory analysis).
Chairs has problmes with internet according to his posts in DominionLeagueOh. In that case, Vote: Scott for lurking.
I found Nik behavior rather scummy, so Vote: Nik
I think this is my arbitrary lynch pool based on vote counts.
A Drowned Kernel - 19xeiron - 16Nik - 14
scott_pilgrim - 10
jotheonah - 9Beyond Awesome - 7
Robz888 - 6
And look, s_p is in there! Let's lynch him. Or anyone else within that group I think. No, not BA. No, not Nik. Preferably not xeiron (meta, good at setup/role/theory analysis).
Why did you exclude chairs and egorK from this list?
is there any possibility of mafia daychat in this setup?That's an odd question. I'm pretty sure there isn't. Where did you get the idea from?
Hmm. Looks like OMGUS to me.I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do. I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style. But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.
vote: Nik
Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik
This says absolutely nothing about his play this game. Very little content or analysis.
vote:ichi
Anyway, I think I explained my vote on Nik fairly well. I believe he deserves some pressure. He's acting about the same in this game as he ever has (mildly scummy), and I think his wagon can give us some useful information. Why do you have a problem with this?
Seriously. This post just reads vindictive to me. Look, sorry if I offended you. I was just expressing my opinion about what you posted.
Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.
I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.
Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.
I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.
Mmmmmmm I want to vote for all the "big" wagons!
I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do. I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style. But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.
vote: Nik
Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik
Ichimaru, Do you think saying "I do not really suspect Nik, but votes to put pressure on him" is the best way to put pressure on Nik?
Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.
I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.
If you think the latter is the more likely case, why bother bringing up the other idea?
Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.
I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.
If you think the latter is the more likely case, why bother bringing up the other idea?
I'm a big believer in putting things out there that other people might do something else with. Also, I asked a question, someone asked me why I asked it, I answered, etc.
Mmmmmmm I want to vote for all the "big" wagons!
So I noticed Voltaire pointed this out two posts before TA did his "I want to vote for awesomewagon but the awesomewagon is on town". This makes TA's statement less of a "why did he bring up his love of wagons out of the blue?", and therefore reduces suspicion.
Why did you want to vote for all the big wagons, Voltaire?
I can see the logic behind this argument. Truth is, I haven't really found anyone really scummy so far. There have been a few people I've had mild scumreads on, pushed them, and they've responded well enough. In a setup this large, I think it could be easier for scum to hide just in the sheer number of players (and low participation players) to avoid attention.Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.
There's an argument that being too easily convinced of other player's towniness is a scum trait. Scum has to fake reads on people, and when a scum player puts out "scumreads" that are then responded to, it's hard to gauge whether the response would convince you as town, because you already know the person's alignment.
It makes things different as well, in that if there are multiple scumteams running around, they can't say for sure that someone is town, because they wouldn't know if they weren't part of their particular scum faction.
Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions? You are right that I have backed off after minimal response, but I am town in this case. Trying to have interactions with the most people and pushing each one I find a little suspicious is my response to a setup this size.
PPE: 2
Mmmmmmm I want to vote for all the "big" wagons!
So I noticed Voltaire pointed this out two posts before TA did his "I want to vote for awesomewagon but the awesomewagon is on town". This makes TA's statement less of a "why did he bring up his love of wagons out of the blue?", and therefore reduces suspicion.
Why did you want to vote for all the big wagons, Voltaire?
Because I liked all the cases at the time.
Doing some rereading.I had been riding TA relatively hard, and some of his responses made me feel like he was ticked. If you go back, he responded to this and clarified that I was misinterpreting his behavior--although he didn't seem to think my interpretation was that irrational or anything, it was just misguided.Hmm. Looks like OMGUS to me.I agree with Axxle that it really looks like Nik is just hopping on the most popular wagons he sees, which is easy for scum to do. I don't think I've played with Nik before, but I kinda followed along HoC and remember him doing things I wouldn't expect from town there, so maybe it's just his play style. But even then, at best it's town playing in a way that doesn't benefit town, and at worst it's really scummy.
vote: Nik
Mmm. I was in HoC and found Nik pretty scummy in that, and I ended up mislynching him against Voltaire's reads--something that kind of screwed town over. However, I haven't really seen Nik ever get much suspicion in the games I've played in with him (2, I think). I think he deserves a little pressure, if at least, to start acting a little more townie if he's town.
vote: Nik
This says absolutely nothing about his play this game. Very little content or analysis.
vote:ichi
Anyway, I think I explained my vote on Nik fairly well. I believe he deserves some pressure. He's acting about the same in this game as he ever has (mildly scummy), and I think his wagon can give us some useful information. Why do you have a problem with this?
How is this OMGUS? You talked about Nik, and not about TA at all, and TA interpreted something from your statement. I don't get this.
And the same to the following:Quote from: IchimaruSeriously. This post just reads vindictive to me. Look, sorry if I offended you. I was just expressing my opinion about what you posted.
Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.
I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.
If you think the latter is the more likely case, why bother bringing up the other idea?
I'm a big believer in putting things out there that other people might do something else with. Also, I asked a question, someone asked me why I asked it, I answered, etc.
My referring to "bringing up the other idea" was to your original posting of your question, which I didn't see as in response to anything, not for the explanation to Xerxes' question.
Vote: IchimaruHmm. I missed this post. I don't feel that either of your points make much sense. Earlier, someone (Xeiron I think) mentioned the likelihood of multiple scumteams when I was asking questions about the setup. Also, why would the scumteams be aware of each other? I think it's most likely that they wouldn't, so your accusation of this "sounding like someone on one of the scumteams" means that you must think (know?) that they are aware of each other.
What I said before, and this post sets off a couple of bells for me:I can see the logic behind this argument. Truth is, I haven't really found anyone really scummy so far. There have been a few people I've had mild scumreads on, pushed them, and they've responded well enough. In a setup this large, I think it could be easier for scum to hide just in the sheer number of players (and low participation players) to avoid attention.Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.
There's an argument that being too easily convinced of other player's towniness is a scum trait. Scum has to fake reads on people, and when a scum player puts out "scumreads" that are then responded to, it's hard to gauge whether the response would convince you as town, because you already know the person's alignment.
It makes things different as well, in that if there are multiple scumteams running around, they can't say for sure that someone is town, because they wouldn't know if they weren't part of their particular scum faction.
Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions? You are right that I have backed off after minimal response, but I am town in this case. Trying to have interactions with the most people and pushing each one I find a little suspicious is my response to a setup this size.
PPE: 2
Bolding is mine. The way this is said makes it seem like it comes from someone on one of said scum teams.
Also, "Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions?" is kind of like "But I'm acting like town!".
Mmmmmmm I want to vote for all the "big" wagons!
So I noticed Voltaire pointed this out two posts before TA did his "I want to vote for awesomewagon but the awesomewagon is on town". This makes TA's statement less of a "why did he bring up his love of wagons out of the blue?", and therefore reduces suspicion.
Why did you want to vote for all the big wagons, Voltaire?
Because I liked all the cases at the time.
One of those was Axxle, but he received a pardon. Do you still like any of the other cases?
Thinking about the scenario in which scum!Robz lets himself get to L-2 and does and says nothing so that he can claim to be completely oblivious. It works better if he's coordinating with someone else to defend him.
I'm thinking this is town!Robz here who's legitimately disengaged with the game, though.
If you think the latter is the more likely case, why bother bringing up the other idea?
I'm a big believer in putting things out there that other people might do something else with. Also, I asked a question, someone asked me why I asked it, I answered, etc.
My referring to "bringing up the other idea" was to your original posting of your question, which I didn't see as in response to anything, not for the explanation to Xerxes' question.
WHat's your point? Not everything has to be responding to something else.
Vote: IchimaruHmm. I missed this post. I don't feel that either of your points make much sense. Earlier, someone (Xeiron I think) mentioned the likelihood of multiple scumteams when I was asking questions about the setup. Also, why would the scumteams be aware of each other? I think it's most likely that they wouldn't, so your accusation of this "sounding like someone on one of the scumteams" means that you must think (know?) that they are aware of each other.
What I said before, and this post sets off a couple of bells for me:I can see the logic behind this argument. Truth is, I haven't really found anyone really scummy so far. There have been a few people I've had mild scumreads on, pushed them, and they've responded well enough. In a setup this large, I think it could be easier for scum to hide just in the sheer number of players (and low participation players) to avoid attention.Bah. I'm just being honest. I ride people, and then when they give me signs that they are town, I back off some.
There's an argument that being too easily convinced of other player's towniness is a scum trait. Scum has to fake reads on people, and when a scum player puts out "scumreads" that are then responded to, it's hard to gauge whether the response would convince you as town, because you already know the person's alignment.
It makes things different as well, in that if there are multiple scumteams running around, they can't say for sure that someone is town, because they wouldn't know if they weren't part of their particular scum faction.
Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions? You are right that I have backed off after minimal response, but I am town in this case. Trying to have interactions with the most people and pushing each one I find a little suspicious is my response to a setup this size.
PPE: 2
Bolding is mine. The way this is said makes it seem like it comes from someone on one of said scum teams.
Also, "Isn't it town's job to push people and gauge reactions?" is kind of like "But I'm acting like town!".
Secondly, this was a response to ADK where he was assuming that scum would know who was town; however, if there are multiple scumteams (which is likely from what I've gathered), this isn't true.
PPE: ww
You're making a good case on IG but I'm hesitant because D1 scum reads based on contradictions are just usually so bad...yours I think I like though? I would switch if IG got more popular.
You're making a good case on IG but I'm hesitant because D1 scum reads based on contradictions are just usually so bad...yours I think I like though? I would switch if IG got more popular.
Let me help you with that.
Vote: IG
Here's something circumstantial. He's got RL stuff going on (finals) but he's still at the top of the post count tower, and he's fairly new to the game. A new person posting a lot is a null tell, but I find myself more motivated to post in general in a game where I'm scum.
There's also "but I am town in this case." Which just sounds very forced and unnatural.
ADK made some point about scum knowing who was town.
I made that point that since it seemed likely that there were multiple scumteams (from what Xeiron had said and what I gather from the setup), that this would not be the case. Why would scumteams be aware of each other and know who scum in other factions were? My guess is they wouldn't, therefore they don't really know who is town since they don't know if there are other scumteams out there. So making gambits on someone being town is more risky for them, as they could flip as scum from a different faction.
You took this statement as something that "sounds like it would come from a member of one of said scumteams", which makes no sense to me for reasons I have already outlined in my last post.
So basically you are finding me scummy for paying attention to the setup and trying to make what I believe to be rational inferences. This gives me more of a town-read on ADK I think, since I'd expect scum would discuss other factions and thus be more aware. Unless that was just a really good fake town-slip.
PPE: jotheonoah
Don't you see that the same could be said of you? So are we arguing over whether or not we think that theoretical multiple faction scumteams are aware of each other? Because from what I've gathered you think that the scumteams are aware of each other--which to me would be something only scum could know. Wheras my argument is just an inference. (I'm underling this because I think it's a very important point).ADK made some point about scum knowing who was town.
I made that point that since it seemed likely that there were multiple scumteams (from what Xeiron had said and what I gather from the setup), that this would not be the case. Why would scumteams be aware of each other and know who scum in other factions were? My guess is they wouldn't, therefore they don't really know who is town since they don't know if there are other scumteams out there. So making gambits on someone being town is more risky for them, as they could flip as scum from a different faction.
You took this statement as something that "sounds like it would come from a member of one of said scumteams", which makes no sense to me for reasons I have already outlined in my last post.
So basically you are finding me scummy for paying attention to the setup and trying to make what I believe to be rational inferences. This gives me more of a town-read on ADK I think, since I'd expect scum would discuss other factions and thus be more aware. Unless that was just a really good fake town-slip.
PPE: jotheonoah
Okay yes, that I understand. I'm not disagreeing with the point made. This is a read thing. The way you said it makes me think that you're coming from an "inside" perspective and not an "outside" one.
Because from what I've gathered you think that the scumteams are aware of each other
Well you seem to be arguing with my theory--or at least finding it scummy.Quote from: IchimaruBecause from what I've gathered you think that the scumteams are aware of each other
Huh? How does anything I said indicate that?
Well you seem to be arguing with my theory--or at least finding it scummy.Quote from: IchimaruBecause from what I've gathered you think that the scumteams are aware of each other
Huh? How does anything I said indicate that?
Both of which don't make much sense to me. You seem to be completely ruling out the (true) option which is that I am town who is just analyzing the setup.
KWell you seem to be arguing with my theory--or at least finding it scummy.Quote from: IchimaruBecause from what I've gathered you think that the scumteams are aware of each other
Huh? How does anything I said indicate that?
Both of which don't make much sense to me. You seem to be completely ruling out the (true) option which is that I am town who is just analyzing the setup.
So I guess I'm bad at explaining myself. I'm not arguing with your theory, and I'm not ruling out any option. I realize the statement could have come from town. It also could have come from scum. I got an impression of the latter. This wasn't the one thing that made me vote, just something I noticed among others. And it's a "feeling" thing instead of a "fact" thing.
Ichimaru seems town to me. What's the case on sp? Lurking? I can think of much bigger culprits. Nik basically disappeared after I started attacking him.Maybe not, but he's still doing more of the same
Ichimaru seems town to me. What's the case on sp? Lurking? I can think of much bigger culprits. Nik basically disappeared after I started attacking him.
My next post immediately after that one took back the 'lurking' claim. Maybe I wasn't clear but what I meant was "Maybe he's not lurking, but he's doing more of the same scummy sheeping" or blending as you put it.Ichimaru seems town to me. What's the case on sp? Lurking? I can think of much bigger culprits. Nik basically disappeared after I started attacking him.
Not lurking, blending in.
I'd be lynching you if I could.
My next post immediately after that one took back the 'lurking' claim. Maybe I wasn't clear but what I meant was "Maybe he's not lurking, but he's doing more of the same scummy sheeping" or blending as you put it.Ichimaru seems town to me. What's the case on sp? Lurking? I can think of much bigger culprits. Nik basically disappeared after I started attacking him.
Not lurking, blending in.
I'd be lynching you if I could.
I honestly have no idea who anyone is. This whole meta meta environment is intriguing. I keep reading over the posts, but I have no idea what to make of anything.
Why scott_pilgrim more than any other lurker ? I did a quick reread of his posts (really don't have time for an actual reread right now) and he seems somewhat townie to me.Yeah. I don't really see him as that scummy. Plus he said that his internet would be spotty til Saturday.
Why scott_pilgrim more than any other lurker ? I did a quick reread of his posts (really don't have time for an actual reread right now) and he seems somewhat townie to me.
Why scott_pilgrim more than any other lurker ? I did a quick reread of his posts (really don't have time for an actual reread right now) and he seems somewhat townie to me.
Check out my post involving post counts.
Secondly, your case is that you forgot he existed ? I mean yes, scum likes to blend in, but I don't think that's enough.
Post counts are a fine and useful tool. They're an amazing starting point, incentive scum to trip themselves up, and are a wonderful proxy for alignment that I would wager is near-unbeaten for D1 success.
So. Who are you voting for, and why?
There are probably 5 or 6 people I would lynch. I am advocating for my top choice, but by no means my only choice.
Maybe, but I'd rather lynch him tomorrow because I don't want to scare brand new players away <.< >.> (>'-')> <('-'<) ^(' - ')^ <('-'<) (>'-')>Post counts are a fine and useful tool. They're an amazing starting point, incentive scum to trip themselves up, and are a wonderful proxy for alignment that I would wager is near-unbeaten for D1 success.
So. Who are you voting for, and why?
There are probably 5 or 6 people I would lynch. I am advocating for my top choice, but by no means my only choice.
I'm just surprised this is your top choice, given how light a suspicion it is.
I'm voting for Beyond Awesome, I thought his sheepy vote on Axxle was textbook newbie scum. I still have to do a reread which is hard because I'm in my finals week right now...
I get that my vote isn't very useful where it is, and the deadline is tomorrow right ? So I'll change it, but I doubt S_P is our best option here.
PPE : Even on day 1, this is a nothing case. There have been five or six stronger cases in this game already. You don't like lynching active people, that's fine, but still.
D1 cases are usually BAD! They're great on later days for interactions but horrible for choosing a lynch on D1. I wildly disagree that there are "5 or 6" stronger cases.
D1 cases are usually BAD! They're great on later days for interactions but horrible for choosing a lynch on D1. I wildly disagree that there are "5 or 6" stronger cases.
Hmm... so we should make cases on Day 1 but not actually follow through with them?
D1 cases are usually BAD! They're great on later days for interactions but horrible for choosing a lynch on D1. I wildly disagree that there are "5 or 6" stronger cases.
Hmm... so we should make cases on Day 1 but not actually follow through with them?
The traditional way of making cases (ie searching for contradictions, analyzing votes) on D1 is terrible. It has a proven track record of being terrible on D1. I advocate a different way of making cases on D1. I do not advocate what you said, and I have no idea why you would think that.
D1 cases are usually BAD! They're great on later days for interactions but horrible for choosing a lynch on D1. I wildly disagree that there are "5 or 6" stronger cases.
Hmm... so we should make cases on Day 1 but not actually follow through with them?
The traditional way of making cases (ie searching for contradictions, analyzing votes) on D1 is terrible. It has a proven track record of being terrible on D1. I advocate a different way of making cases on D1. I do not advocate what you said, and I have no idea why you would think that.
Well you said they're terrible for finding scum on day 1, yet they're very useful later on.
Volt, why do you want to still vote me when your original reason was demonstrably false?
That I didn't keep an obviously scummy card.Volt, why do you want to still vote me when your original reason was demonstrably false?
That you discarded Mountebank?
That I didn't keep an obviously scummy card.Volt, why do you want to still vote me when your original reason was demonstrably false?
That you discarded Mountebank?
BA, IG, we need you guys to vote somewhere.Oh whoa! I lost track of the deadline. My vote will be here shortly
I'm willing to move back to Nik if you think that's a good vote. I'm only on sp because of the deadline.but isn't scott the same thing?
chairs is VLA so I don't like him as a vote.
Except scott is the only person remotely close to being lynched. Do you think there's a chance of someone different happening today?Not Chairs! Remember, he said he had Internet problems. I think Scott_Pilgrim and BA would be better canidatates.
I will vote for scott if we are super near the deadline and need a lynch, but he's not really my first choice.
If we're lynching a lurker, I think I'd prefer chairs.
Deadline is tomorrow night, not tonight, right?Yeah. A bit more than 24 hours from now.
Kinda, but he's also had more time to react to his wagon.I'm willing to move back to Nik if you think that's a good vote. I'm only on sp because of the deadline.but isn't scott the same thing?
chairs is VLA so I don't like him as a vote.
I am also willing to move to Nik.
PPE: 1
Ok Nik. I'm not going to ask you to claim your card just yet but can you reveal your alignment?Except scott is the only person remotely close to being lynched. Do you think there's a chance of someone different happening today?Not Chairs! Remember, he said he had Internet problems. I think Scott_Pilgrim and BA would be better canidatates.
I will vote for scott if we are super near the deadline and need a lynch, but he's not really my first choice.
If we're lynching a lurker, I think I'd prefer chairs.
I think it was scott who was having problems with his internet (maybe chairs too). I just checked the VLA thread, and yeah sp posted about having internet problems.Except scott is the only person remotely close to being lynched. Do you think there's a chance of someone different happening today?Not Chairs! Remember, he said he had Internet problems. I think Scott_Pilgrim and BA would be better canidatates.
I will vote for scott if we are super near the deadline and need a lynch, but he's not really my first choice.
If we're lynching a lurker, I think I'd prefer chairs.
I don't like any of the current wagons. I'd actually prefer no lynch at this point.
How is no lynch a good idea? If we are facing multiple scum factions then town could lose the majority very quickly, even a lurker lynch gives us some information and interaction.
Town.Ok Nik. I'm not going to ask you to claim your card just yet but can you reveal your alignment?Except scott is the only person remotely close to being lynched. Do you think there's a chance of someone different happening today?Not Chairs! Remember, he said he had Internet problems. I think Scott_Pilgrim and BA would be better canidatates.
I will vote for scott if we are super near the deadline and need a lynch, but he's not really my first choice.
If we're lynching a lurker, I think I'd prefer chairs.
Why?How is no lynch a good idea? If we are facing multiple scum factions then town could lose the majority very quickly, even a lurker lynch gives us some information and interaction.
No lynch is not a good idea in and of itself, but I like no lynch better than any of the current lynch candidates.
Shoot!Town.Ok Nik. I'm not going to ask you to claim your card just yet but can you reveal your alignment?Except scott is the only person remotely close to being lynched. Do you think there's a chance of someone different happening today?Not Chairs! Remember, he said he had Internet problems. I think Scott_Pilgrim and BA would be better canidatates.
I will vote for scott if we are super near the deadline and need a lynch, but he's not really my first choice.
If we're lynching a lurker, I think I'd prefer chairs.
Why?How is no lynch a good idea? If we are facing multiple scum factions then town could lose the majority very quickly, even a lurker lynch gives us some information and interaction.No lynch is not a good idea in and of itself, but I like no lynch better than any of the current lynch candidates.
I am getting a scummy vibe from Teproc that's making me want to lynch ScottOk. Is this because Teproc doesn't want to lynch Scott, you want to lynch him?
Vote: Scott
I am getting a scummy vibe from Teproc that's making me want to lynch Scott
Vote: Scott
I am getting a scummy vibe from Teproc that's making me want to lynch Scott
Vote: Scott
I get the reasoning, but this is basically like picking scum teams on day 1. If you think I'm scum, you should start by lynching me.
Okay, I am going to vote for Nik. I don't think the evidence is compelling enough for Scott or RobZ. I made a list of people I felt might be scum and Nik is on that list and already has two votes against him, so that is why I am voting for him rather than someone with 0 votes.So even if you thought someone was scummy, if they had 0 votes on them, you wouldn't vote?
Vote: Nik
Okay, I am going to vote for Nik. I don't think the evidence is compelling enough for Scott or RobZ. I made a list of people I felt might be scum and Nik is on that list and already has two votes against him, so that is why I am voting for him rather than someone with 0 votes.So even if you thought someone was scummy, if they had 0 votes on them, you wouldn't vote?
Vote: Nik
Who are the other people on your list?
I am getting a scummy vibe from Teproc that's making me want to lynch Scott
Vote: Scott
He doesn't feel like the town Ichi I've seen before?Could you explain this in a little more detail?
He doesn't feel like the town Ichi I've seen before?Could you explain this in a little more detail?
Sorry. I have a quick and probably stupid question. I have seen OMGUS come up a few times. What does that mean? Also, what does WIFOM mean? And, are there any other abbreviations I should know about?Oh no. Feel free to ask any/all questions. I was completely lost my first game and asked a bunch of questions.
I have no preference between Scott and Nik. Am I allowed to use the dice button in forum mafia? (I vaguely remember there being a discussion a while back on whether that was ok for some reason)
WIFOM means "Wine in front of me". It means that an argument is circular, and really doesn't have a solid foundation. Like in the film the Princess Bride (I'm not sure if you've seen it, if you have you'll understand).
But isn't what you're describing somewhat like circular reasoning? e.g. The whole argument is based on an assumption which kind of supports itself?WIFOM means "Wine in front of me". It means that an argument is circular, and really doesn't have a solid foundation. Like in the film the Princess Bride (I'm not sure if you've seen it, if you have you'll understand).
I was under the impression that WIFOM was specifically about double-guessing your reactions because maybe scum anticipated them. Like "player x is doing something that's in their meta for town, but they know that that's their meta and so maybe are doing that on purpose to trick me, but maybe the player making that argument is actually scum trying to trick me into lynch a townie," etc., etc. The whole "I know that you know that I know" thing.
Well, is Scott's vote based on him lurking, or him doing scummy stuff? He's VLA and has posted there.I'm glad someone besides me finally noticed this.
But isn't what you're describing somewhat like circular reasoning? e.g. The whole argument is based on an assumption which kind of supports itself?WIFOM means "Wine in front of me". It means that an argument is circular, and really doesn't have a solid foundation. Like in the film the Princess Bride (I'm not sure if you've seen it, if you have you'll understand).
I was under the impression that WIFOM was specifically about double-guessing your reactions because maybe scum anticipated them. Like "player x is doing something that's in their meta for town, but they know that that's their meta and so maybe are doing that on purpose to trick me, but maybe the player making that argument is actually scum trying to trick me into lynch a townie," etc., etc. The whole "I know that you know that I know" thing.
The wiki describes it as circular reasoning, but you're right that it is more limited to specific interactions.
Do not like a Nik lynch at all.
Nik will presumably vote SP for self-preservation, which means we need one more for a SP lynch.
Well, is Scott's vote based on him lurking, or him doing scummy stuff? He's VLA and has posted there.I'm glad someone besides me finally noticed this.
Yeah, I seriously do not get at all the votes on sp.
Vote: Volitare
Also, Nik. Why vote Voltaire And then just leave?Do you mean not give a reason? My reason is that earlier in the thread, I thought Volitare claimed he was Mafia, based on this:QuoteI AM IN MAFIA AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINNow I realize he was talking about the game Mafia, not the Mafia faction. So, Unvote.
Vote:Robz888
His only post looks a little scummy, but the fact he has not responded to the constant voting on him makes me thinks he is definitely Mafia.
Robz, explanation?
Oh. In that case, Unvote.The thing that is making Robz seem more and more scummier to me is that he hasn't posted anything. If he's lurking, he would at least see all the votes on him and would probably offer an explanation...but he hasn't. Is he just not paying attention?
I think Robz is busy with RL stuff (I think he posted in the VLA thread), so not responding to the wagon right away is expected regardless of his alignment.
VUnvote. Vote: Axxle
Vote: Ichimaru Gin
Not only did he vote for me only because he thought I wasn't playing right, but he also claims he thinks people are scum, questions them, then backs off. Very scummy.
Vote: Chairs
I think all he posted was an /in. Lurker.
Chairs has problmes with internet according to his posts in DominionLeagueOh. In that case, Vote: Scott for lurking.
I found Nik behavior rather scummy, so Vote: Nik
Also, vote: Chairs.
Voltaire, flesh that out if you would.
Exactly, xeiron just layed out why Nik is probably town.
This one:Exactly, xeiron just layed out why Nik is probably town.
I tend to think that someone who votes in most of their posts on day 1 is scum. Scum trying to push a lynch. Why does that make him town? Because it's too obvious?
@ww
It's been a little while since I took logic. But after (3) wouldn't you have B-->A
?
Otherwise it's just one assumption that leads to a single conclusion.
PPE: 2
This one:Exactly, xeiron just layed out why Nik is probably town.
I tend to think that someone who votes in most of their posts on day 1 is scum. Scum trying to push a lynch. Why does that make him town? Because it's too obvious?
Yes, but more importantly, as xeiron says, because that's what he did in NM4 as town.
So yes, he could be scum, but he's new enough that if he's matching his town meta like this he's got to be more likely town. I simply cannot see it any other way.
This one:Exactly, xeiron just layed out why Nik is probably town.
I tend to think that someone who votes in most of their posts on day 1 is scum. Scum trying to push a lynch. Why does that make him town? Because it's too obvious?
Yes, but more importantly, as xeiron says, because that's what he did in NM4 as town.
So yes, he could be scum, but he's new enough that if he's matching his town meta like this he's got to be more likely town. I simply cannot see it any other way.
But this could just be the way he is. Just because his scummy town play turned out to be town before doesn't mean scummy town => town always.
This one:Exactly, xeiron just layed out why Nik is probably town.
I tend to think that someone who votes in most of their posts on day 1 is scum. Scum trying to push a lynch. Why does that make him town? Because it's too obvious?
Yes, but more importantly, as xeiron says, because that's what he did in NM4 as town.
So yes, he could be scum, but he's new enough that if he's matching his town meta like this he's got to be more likely town. I simply cannot see it any other way.
But this could just be the way he is. Just because his scummy town play turned out to be town before doesn't mean scummy town => town always.
Exactly. That's my fear. I feel like Nik would play comparably as scum too.This one:Exactly, xeiron just layed out why Nik is probably town.
I tend to think that someone who votes in most of their posts on day 1 is scum. Scum trying to push a lynch. Why does that make him town? Because it's too obvious?
Yes, but more importantly, as xeiron says, because that's what he did in NM4 as town.
So yes, he could be scum, but he's new enough that if he's matching his town meta like this he's got to be more likely town. I simply cannot see it any other way.
But this could just be the way he is. Just because his scummy town play turned out to be town before doesn't mean scummy town => town always.
And in HoC, we wasn't jumping quite so much, was he? I thought he was pretty set on you for most of the game. He went for some other votes, but he was going back to you fairly consistently.
(You being Voltaire here.)
Well, is Scott's vote based on him lurking, or him doing scummy stuff? He's VLA and has posted there.
It seems Nik isn't happening? Well, I'm content with Vote: sp then
Hey everyone, I haven't posted in a few days because I haven't had internet access. I will be really busy for the next few days and probably won't be able to post much, and I don't have time to catch up now...
Deadline is Wednesday, that's a really bad time for me. Hopefully I can catch up before then...
It seems Nik isn't happening? Well, I'm content with Vote: sp then
This is L-1.
Okay I'm on now and going to try to catch up, I'm ~12 pages behind I think...
What time is the deadline?
Shoot, uh, vote: Nik, but I'm still catching up. Obviously voting for survival, but I also do think he comes off as pretty scummy from what I've read so far.
Is the case on me just that I haven't posted much? I swear I'll have more time to post after this week! I hate being in this situation and now kind of regret having singed up for this game...I feel like town is losing a free PR and it's my fault for being in a game when I didn't have time to participate...
Shoot, uh, vote: Nik, but I'm still catching up. Obviously voting for survival, but I also do think he comes off as pretty scummy from what I've read so far.
Is the case on me just that I haven't posted much? I swear I'll have more time to post after this week! I hate being in this situation and now kind of regret having singed up for this game...I feel like town is losing a free PR and it's my fault for being in a game when I didn't have time to participate...
I chose Watchtower, the town Watcher.
I don't really want to vote Nik. I hate lynching newbies on Day 1.
I would strongly caution against going after a totally new person at this point in the day! We already outed a good PR. We don't want to accidentally out another one, or accidentally lynch one who doesn't have time to claim or doesn't check in.
I think vote: Nik is a lot better.
Did the mafia get fakeclaims in this game? Pretty rough on them if they didn't, since we have a complete list of cards which correspond to role and alignment.
NO NIK LYNCH
OK, lynch Robz, lynch Joth? If we're lynchign x's, yes to xp but no to xeiron. Are there others?
Teproc, scum will always fakeclaim in this setup, true card claiming outs them as scum
I would strongly caution against going after a totally new person at this point in the day! We already outed a good PR. We don't want to accidentally out another one, or accidentally lynch one who doesn't have time to claim or doesn't check in.
I think vote: Nik is a lot better.
Did the mafia get fakeclaims in this game? Pretty rough on them if they didn't, since we have a complete list of cards which correspond to role and alignment.
Verifiable and arguably the strongest role in mafia. I say he should live.Shoot, uh, vote: Nik, but I'm still catching up. Obviously voting for survival, but I also do think he comes off as pretty scummy from what I've read so far.
Is the case on me just that I haven't posted much? I swear I'll have more time to post after this week! I hate being in this situation and now kind of regret having singed up for this game...I feel like town is losing a free PR and it's my fault for being in a game when I didn't have time to participate...
I chose Watchtower, the town Watcher.
What do we do about this ? Watcher is pretty good, and any fakeclaim is somewhat risky here... also I don't think that's the role scum would most want to out (it's good, but it's no Cop).
I would strongly caution against going after a totally new person at this point in the day! We already outed a good PR. We don't want to accidentally out another one, or accidentally lynch one who doesn't have time to claim or doesn't check in.
I think vote: Nik is a lot better.
Did the mafia get fakeclaims in this game? Pretty rough on them if they didn't, since we have a complete list of cards which correspond to role and alignment.
In this situation, if we get another person to claim, then we lynch one of the claims, no matter what. That's my policy for d1 to not out anything.
I have no reason to think scum got fake claims, how coudl they? It's why I originally thought massclaim would make us win at the start of the day. I wasn't expecting we'd get a full list of cards/roles.
vote: Robz
I would strongly caution against going after a totally new person at this point in the day! We already outed a good PR. We don't want to accidentally out another one, or accidentally lynch one who doesn't have time to claim or doesn't check in.
I think vote: Nik is a lot better.
Did the mafia get fakeclaims in this game? Pretty rough on them if they didn't, since we have a complete list of cards which correspond to role and alignment.
I would strongly caution against going after a totally new person at this point in the day! We already outed a good PR. We don't want to accidentally out another one, or accidentally lynch one who doesn't have time to claim or doesn't check in.
I think vote: Nik is a lot better.
Did the mafia get fakeclaims in this game? Pretty rough on them if they didn't, since we have a complete list of cards which correspond to role and alignment.
In this situation, if we get another person to claim, then we lynch one of the claims, no matter what. That's my policy for d1 to not out anything.
I have no reason to think scum got fake claims, how coudl they? It's why I originally thought massclaim would make us win at the start of the day. I wasn't expecting we'd get a full list of cards/roles.
vote: Robz
What do you mean, how could they? After all the cards had been drafted, mail-mi could have picked some town roles that were neither distributed nor discarded and given them to the scum players as fake claims. If not, scum's in a pretty rough situation in a mass claim scenario, shooting blindly for roles that happened to not be given out.
I would strongly caution against going after a totally new person at this point in the day! We already outed a good PR. We don't want to accidentally out another one, or accidentally lynch one who doesn't have time to claim or doesn't check in.
I think vote: Nik is a lot better.
Did the mafia get fakeclaims in this game? Pretty rough on them if they didn't, since we have a complete list of cards which correspond to role and alignment.
What makes you think Nik is less likely than anyone else to be a PR ?
Wait a minute. There are 139 roles in this game.
Which is more likely? We happened to randomly pick "the strongest role in mafia" as our lurker lynch? or we picked an anti-town player and he claimed the role that would keep him alive?
Even without a mod-supplied fakeclaim, with 122 roles to choose from* and only 15 possible counterclaims, he had an 87.7 percent chance of going uncounterclaimed. Even in the other case, he outs a powerful role for his team.
Why are we all buying this? vote: scott
*139-16 discards-his own actual role
vote count? cause I have no idea at this point.
I think Scott is still bad lynch. Is it worth it to lose a PR like that?
Likely. So if he survives the night, he'll look more suspicious tomorrow. But then we could lynch him as a PR today, which would be undoubtedly worse in my mind.vote count? cause I have no idea at this point.
I think Scott is still bad lynch. Is it worth it to lose a PR like that?
But if he's the actual Watcher, isn't he dead either way?
vote count? cause I have no idea at this point.
I think Scott is still bad lynch. Is it worth it to lose a PR like that?
But if he's the actual Watcher, isn't he dead either way?
vote count? cause I have no idea at this point.
I think Scott is still bad lynch. Is it worth it to lose a PR like that?
But if he's the actual Watcher, isn't he dead either way?
Sorry guys, but what does the Watcher do? Also, what does PR mean and PPE?Watcher targets a person at night and finds out who else targeted that person.
Sorry guys, but what does the Watcher do? Also, what does PR mean and PPE?Watcher targets a person at night and finds out who else targeted that person.
PR means Power Role, basically any role that has actions.
PPE is Prepreview Edit. Sometimes people post between when you start the post and when you finish it.
Sorry guys, but what does the Watcher do? Also, what does PR mean and PPE?Watcher targets a person at night and finds out who else targeted that person.
PR means Power Role, basically any role that has actions.
PPE is Prepreview Edit. Sometimes people post between when you start the post and when you finish it.
Thanks. Also, what does NK mean.
Anyway, I was never sold on SP being scum. I am also not sold on RobZ being scum either. I feel more confident with Nik at this point.
Robz showed up and posted/said non-weighty things, so that makes me feel pretty good about this as a backup still.
I guess leaving SP alive does make sense.
Sorry guys, but what does the Watcher do? Also, what does PR mean and PPE?Watcher targets a person at night and finds out who else targeted that person.
PR means Power Role, basically any role that has actions.
PPE is Prepreview Edit. Sometimes people post between when you start the post and when you finish it.
Thanks. Also, what does NK mean.
Anyway, I was never sold on SP being scum. I am also not sold on RobZ being scum either. I feel more confident with Nik at this point.
Sorry guys, but what does the Watcher do? Also, what does PR mean and PPE?Watcher targets a person at night and finds out who else targeted that person.
PR means Power Role, basically any role that has actions.
PPE is Prepreview Edit. Sometimes people post between when you start the post and when you finish it.
Thanks. Also, what does NK mean.
Anyway, I was never sold on SP being scum. I am also not sold on RobZ being scum either. I feel more confident with Nik at this point.
Same here.
So Robz was disinterested and hasn't posted much. He has a new job right? Why do we keep trying to lynch claimed PR's and people with real life excuses?
NK is Night Kill referring to mafia's factional kill.Sorry guys, but what does the Watcher do? Also, what does PR mean and PPE?Watcher targets a person at night and finds out who else targeted that person.
PR means Power Role, basically any role that has actions.
PPE is Prepreview Edit. Sometimes people post between when you start the post and when you finish it.
Thanks. Also, what does NK mean.
Anyway, I was never sold on SP being scum. I am also not sold on RobZ being scum either. I feel more confident with Nik at this point.
Sorry guys, but what does the Watcher do? Also, what does PR mean and PPE?Watcher targets a person at night and finds out who else targeted that person.
PR means Power Role, basically any role that has actions.
PPE is Prepreview Edit. Sometimes people post between when you start the post and when you finish it.
Thanks. Also, what does NK mean.
Anyway, I was never sold on SP being scum. I am also not sold on RobZ being scum either. I feel more confident with Nik at this point.
Same here.
So Robz was disinterested and hasn't posted much. He has a new job right? Why do we keep trying to lynch claimed PR's and people with real life excuses?
Lynching scott today would be really antitown.
vote: Robz888
too little, too late manLynching scott today would be really antitown.
For the record, I completely disagree. We have no reason to believe his claim and every reason not to. But whatever.
For the record, I completely disagree. We have no reason to believe his claim and every reason not to. But whatever.Doesn't matter. His claim is both easy to verify and powerful.
I mean, if you have a strong reason to believe that scum would choose Watcher in particular as their claim, then your probability argument makes sense. But he still could have chosen any number of fake town roles.
Sorry guys, but what does the Watcher do? Also, what does PR mean and PPE?Watcher targets a person at night and finds out who else targeted that person.
PR means Power Role, basically any role that has actions.
PPE is Prepreview Edit. Sometimes people post between when you start the post and when you finish it.
Thanks. Also, what does NK mean.
Anyway, I was never sold on SP being scum. I am also not sold on RobZ being scum either. I feel more confident with Nik at this point.
mafiascum is down right now otherwise I would have sent him there.Sorry guys, but what does the Watcher do? Also, what does PR mean and PPE?Watcher targets a person at night and finds out who else targeted that person.
PR means Power Role, basically any role that has actions.
PPE is Prepreview Edit. Sometimes people post between when you start the post and when you finish it.
Thanks. Also, what does NK mean.
Anyway, I was never sold on SP being scum. I am also not sold on RobZ being scum either. I feel more confident with Nik at this point.
Mafia Lingo/Dictionary => http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5315.0
Everything else you can find there => http://wiki.mafiascum.net/
I mean, if you have a strong reason to believe that scum would choose Watcher in particular as their claim, then your probability argument makes sense. But he still could have chosen any number of fake town roles.
Worth noting, there's a Werewolf Watcher
Clearly I'm not, as I moved my vote. The conversation is somewhat academic at this point. I just don't like the idea of scum getting away scot free for making an easy enough fake claim. And I feel that moving to another lynch at the last possible second has screwed towns up before. (of course, in the interest of fairness, I think it's also hit scum before)
I mean, if you have a strong reason to believe that scum would choose Watcher in particular as their claim, then your probability argument makes sense. But he still could have chosen any number of fake town roles.
Worth noting, there's a Werewolf Watcher
Town Watchers are a lot more likely to die.I mean, if you have a strong reason to believe that scum would choose Watcher in particular as their claim, then your probability argument makes sense. But he still could have chosen any number of fake town roles.
Worth noting, there's a Werewolf Watcher
This puts a hamper in the idea of confirming his role, since even if we get a confirmation it's only 50/50.
Town Watchers are a lot more likely to die.I mean, if you have a strong reason to believe that scum would choose Watcher in particular as their claim, then your probability argument makes sense. But he still could have chosen any number of fake town roles.
Worth noting, there's a Werewolf Watcher
This puts a hamper in the idea of confirming his role, since even if we get a confirmation it's only 50/50.
What is Robz at now? L-2?
Who do I have to vote for to not be lynched?I will do Nik over you, but not S_P I think.
Heh. Just noticed I was already voting for him. That's 5 vote I think.Who do I have to vote for to not be lynched?I will do Nik over you, but not S_P I think.
PPE:
vote: Nik
Back to Nik then
Nik
Couple more people, join the Nik wagon please?
I was just thinking about how Robz's apathy was making me feel very good about this lynch... so much for that.
Couple more people, join the Nik wagon please?
No.
Couple more people, join the Nik wagon please?
No.
So you want to lynch Robz?
I was just thinking about how Robz's apathy was making me feel very good about this lynch... so much for that.
WIFOM, man. WIFOM.
Mm. Probably should have checked, but there have been a crazy amount of votes and back-and-forths. And no official vote count in a little while.Couple more people, join the Nik wagon please?
No.
So you want to lynch Robz?
Yes! I'm voting for him and everything.
I really can't decide between the two. I know I messed up on Nik before, but it seems like he's not a PR. Wheras Robz alluded that he was. I could see scum!Robz doing that though.
Well he said "It's a big mistake to lynch me guys." Which I interpreted as him having some sort of PR. I mean, it could be otherwise but the way he said it makes it sound that way.I really can't decide between the two. I know I messed up on Nik before, but it seems like he's not a PR. Wheras Robz alluded that he was. I could see scum!Robz doing that though.
He did ?
I really can't decide between the two. I know I messed up on Nik before, but it seems like he's not a PR. Wheras Robz alluded that he was. I could see scum!Robz doing that though.
He did ?
Scotty, want to give us some reads in case you bite it?
YEs, in fact! I guess since I'm dead anyway there's no reason not to report my night action results.Thanks
Here's a cached version of the mafiascum entry; it's not really clear: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XbE3hCrwzkoJ:wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTree_Stump+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
I'm a cop. (the other spy). I got a town result. Shall I say who it is, or is it better not to put a target on their head? I can just sit here and chime in if we're about to lynch the person in question.
That was a terrible, terrible night. I might be the only town person left here. Note that everyone killed was on robz's lynch. That seems rather strange to me: surely something like that wouldn't happen by pure coincedence.
Also, I think that there's probably 1 mafia, 1 werwolf, 1 Alien, and 1 something else, or else this couldn't be ruled balanced at all.
That was a terrible, terrible night. I might be the only town person left here. Note that everyone killed was on robz's lynch. That seems rather strange to me: surely something like that wouldn't happen by pure coincedence.That doesn't strike me as a very townie thing to say. Yes, we lost a lot of town members--but I'm still alive (and you may be town as well), and I feel that a balanced game would have to have a fair amount of town--especially with so many nightkills possible. I agree with your theory about 1 person from each faction though.
Also, I think that there's probably 1 mafia, 1 werwolf, 1 Alien, and 1 something else, or else this couldn't be ruled balanced at all.
Yeah, I guess you're right. It just feels pretty bad to find so many people killed/treestumped.That was a terrible, terrible night. I might be the only town person left here. Note that everyone killed was on robz's lynch. That seems rather strange to me: surely something like that wouldn't happen by pure coincedence.That doesn't strike me as a very townie thing to say. Yes, we lost a lot of town members--but I'm still alive (and you may be town as well), and I feel that a balanced game would have to have a fair amount of town--especially with so many nightkills possible. I agree with your theory about 1 person from each faction though.
Also, I think that there's probably 1 mafia, 1 werwolf, 1 Alien, and 1 something else, or else this couldn't be ruled balanced at all.
Your observation about everyone killed being on the Robz lynch is quite intriguing as well. With that number of kills, the coincidence does become a little harder to ignore too. I'm not sure what it might mean though.
Yes; it's just that ICs can't help very much except for giving honest reads. More importantly, can he use his cop power still and report the results? That would be really useful, I think.
I don't know if it may be more dangerous to be "not scum" at this point. What does everyone else think?Yes; it's just that ICs can't help very much except for giving honest reads. More importantly, can he use his cop power still and report the results? That would be really useful, I think.
Im pretty sure I can't cop anymore. So I have exactly one result. It's a "not mafia" result. Do people want to hear it?
Yes; it's just that ICs can't help very much except for giving honest reads. More importantly, can he use his cop power still and report the results? That would be really useful, I think.
Im pretty sure I can't cop anymore. So I have exactly one result. It's a "not mafia" result. Do people want to hear it?
Yes; it's just that ICs can't help very much except for giving honest reads. More importantly, can he use his cop power still and report the results? That would be really useful, I think.
Im pretty sure I can't cop anymore. So I have exactly one result. It's a "not mafia" result. Do people want to hear it?
I can't think of a reason not to. So yes.
Yes; it's just that ICs can't help very much except for giving honest reads. More importantly, can he use his cop power still and report the results? That would be really useful, I think.
Im pretty sure I can't cop anymore. So I have exactly one result. It's a "not mafia" result. Do people want to hear it?
I can't think of a reason not to. So yes.
I think we should be careful; given that the Greater Idea deck has opportunities to investigate other scum factions, and it looks like we -have- other scum factions, "not mafia" may not be the same as "not scum". I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just that we need to be wary of treating anyone who's "not mafia" as an IC.
Wait. So a "not mafia" result would include members from other factions like werewolves, aliens, etc?Yes; it's just that ICs can't help very much except for giving honest reads. More importantly, can he use his cop power still and report the results? That would be really useful, I think.
Im pretty sure I can't cop anymore. So I have exactly one result. It's a "not mafia" result. Do people want to hear it?
I can't think of a reason not to. So yes.
I think we should be careful; given that the Greater Idea deck has opportunities to investigate other scum factions, and it looks like we -have- other scum factions, "not mafia" may not be the same as "not scum". I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just that we need to be wary of treating anyone who's "not mafia" as an IC.
Wait. So a "not mafia" result would include members from other factions like werewolves, aliens, etc?Yes; it's just that ICs can't help very much except for giving honest reads. More importantly, can he use his cop power still and report the results? That would be really useful, I think.
Im pretty sure I can't cop anymore. So I have exactly one result. It's a "not mafia" result. Do people want to hear it?
I can't think of a reason not to. So yes.
I think we should be careful; given that the Greater Idea deck has opportunities to investigate other scum factions, and it looks like we -have- other scum factions, "not mafia" may not be the same as "not scum". I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just that we need to be wary of treating anyone who's "not mafia" as an IC.
It was pretty awesome to log in for deadline and see that derphammer, I've got to say.
That's effectively four nightkills, and treestumping means we have an alien faction. They might have used their one kill last night though. Do you have anything useful for us, Joth?
This all makes the chance that Scott Pilgrim and Axxle are the Town versions of their roles less likely. Much less likely I think. (Assuming SP was telling the truth about having a Watcher role.)
This all makes the chance that Scott Pilgrim and Axxle are the Town versions of their roles less likely. Much less likely I think. (Assuming SP was telling the truth about having a Watcher role.)
How so?
I watched Voltaire, and got no result.
That is the most manipulative statistics I've seen in a long time. All it means is that *anyone* is more likely to be scum now.
Ok, I also investigated Voltaire. This seems pretty close to clearing him.Except S_P could be (and perhaps likely) is lying. With that many nightkills happening, I find it difficult that at least one person or scum faction wouldn't have picked S_P as a nightkill. Especially with a role that powerful, which has the potential to out other town PR's and members of any/all scum factions.
Doesn't Watcher get the result of who target the person? S_P should have gotten Joth as his result if Joth investigated Voltaire.
And if he had been blocked he would have gotten "no result" not "nobody".Excellent points ADK.
Vote: Scott
Doesn't Watcher get the result of who target the person? S_P should have gotten Joth as his result if Joth investigated Voltaire.Yes.
unvote
I don't know that a "nobody" result on Voltaire (or a "joth" result) clears Voltaire, though. It just lets us know that no one bothered targeting him, which might make it more likely that he's scum (scum aren't going to be targeting their partners). Also, since we have confirmed aliens, we should remember that one of the possible alien abilities reverses all cop results, so that's a thing.
I was wondering if Axxle has the ability to stop a lynch from happening, why wasn't he targeted. Or, is the ability just one shot?
unvote
I don't know that a "nobody" result on Voltaire (or a "joth" result) clears Voltaire, though. It just lets us know that no one bothered targeting him, which might make it more likely that he's scum (scum aren't going to be targeting their partners). Also, since we have confirmed aliens, we should remember that one of the possible alien abilities reverses all cop results, so that's a thing.
unvote
I agree. Hmm. That's a good thing to know. So it's possible that joth's cop results were reversed? How does that work?
Hey everyone. I've been sort of following.
Quick theory thing: Should VTs claim their card name? If they do, they are basically a names Townie. My vote is yes.
Vote: Ichimaru GinHey everyone. I've been sort of following.
Quick theory thing: Should VTs claim their card name? If they do, they are basically a names Townie. My vote is yes.
Hey hey, welcome. Um. I'm cool with this. I don't feel like there can be that many town PR's left (or members of town, for that matter), so it doesn't seem like it can hurt much.
Hmm. I find that you are jumping to conclusions. This is only basis for your vote on me at this point in the game?Vote: Ichimaru GinHey everyone. I've been sort of following.
Quick theory thing: Should VTs claim their card name? If they do, they are basically a names Townie. My vote is yes.
Hey hey, welcome. Um. I'm cool with this. I don't feel like there can be that many town PR's left (or members of town, for that matter), so it doesn't seem like it can hurt much.
That "or members of Town, for that matter" read so, so scummy.
Seriously, how is that diction construed as scummy? What other way am I supposed to refer to town!players?
"My fellow members of town"?
It's not good to insert self-references as you being town all the time, because that just looks scummy.
I might be the only town person left here.
Yes, we lost a lot of town members--but I'm still alive
Heh. Find me scummy for it all you want. But I was following Xerxes lead there. My point still stands that Archetype's critique of my word choice and finding it scummy doesn't really make sense.Seriously, how is that diction construed as scummy? What other way am I supposed to refer to town!players?
"My fellow members of town"?
It's not good to insert self-references as you being town all the time, because that just looks scummy.
That's interestingTM that you would say that.I might be the only town person left here.Yes, we lost a lot of town members--but I'm still alive
One thing I feel is that we have to be careful who we lynch this day. If we don't hit scum, chances are we stand no shot at winning this. With 4 NKs a night, that seems brutal.That's a very good observation. If we're lucky (and the odds are much better now), scum will hit scum more--and I guess that's what they want too. I've never been in a multiple-faction game before, but it makes sense.
Scott, why'd you target Voltaire?
And I somehow missed Voltaire on my reads list. I'd put him under possible scum.One thing I feel is that we have to be careful who we lynch this day. If we don't hit scum, chances are we stand no shot at winning this. With 4 NKs a night, that seems brutal.That's a very good observation. If we're lucky (and the odds are much better now), scum will hit scum more--and I guess that's what they want too. I've never been in a multiple-faction game before, but it makes sense.
Town reads on: XP, Beyond Awesome, ADK
Null: Axxle, S_P, Archetype
Possible Scum: ww, EgorK (where is he?), Nik
One thing I feel is that we have to be careful who we lynch this day. If we don't hit scum, chances are we stand no shot at winning this. With 4 NKs a night, that seems brutal.I was just about to entertain the idea of a no kill, but I think it'd be easier for the entire town (ie players in the game) to find scum rather than trust the individual factions to find each other accurately and try to kill them.
Deflecting suspicion - classic scumtell.Heh. Find me scummy for it all you want. But I was following Xerxes lead there. My point still stands that Archetype's critique of my word choice and finding it scummy doesn't really make sense.Seriously, how is that diction construed as scummy? What other way am I supposed to refer to town!players?
"My fellow members of town"?
It's not good to insert self-references as you being town all the time, because that just looks scummy.
That's interestingTM that you would say that.I might be the only town person left here.Yes, we lost a lot of town members--but I'm still alive
I've only been in 2 serious games as town, and died N1 in one of them. So I am still observing people I believe to be town.
Personally, I find you to be playing much differently than the town ww that I am used to.
mail-mi just PM'd me saying he had made a mistake; jotheonah targeted Voltaire last night.This, combined with the thread lock, makes it certain that Scotty is a Watcher. Since there are two Watchers, there is a literal 50/50 chance that he is scum. Rereading him now.
You can't refute what I've said with one sentence. You are describing and categorizing what I am saying rather than responding to it and actually engaging in discussion. This does not further anything.Deflecting suspicion - classic scumtell.Heh. Find me scummy for it all you want. But I was following Xerxes lead there. My point still stands that Archetype's critique of my word choice and finding it scummy doesn't really make sense.Seriously, how is that diction construed as scummy? What other way am I supposed to refer to town!players?
"My fellow members of town"?
It's not good to insert self-references as you being town all the time, because that just looks scummy.
That's interestingTM that you would say that.I might be the only town person left here.Yes, we lost a lot of town members--but I'm still alive
I've only been in 2 serious games as town, and died N1 in one of them. So I am still observing people I believe to be town.
Personally, I find you to be playing much differently than the town ww that I am used to.
Vote: Archetype for WIFOMing.
Niks right. Can't you see it in Archetypes argument?Vote: Archetype for WIFOMing.
Huh?????
Niks right. Can't you see it in Archetypes argument?Vote: Archetype for WIFOMing.
Huh?????
Phone post.
To a degree yes. However, as you yourself already pointed out, I have been shown to do two different things.Niks right. Can't you see it in Archetypes argument?Vote: Archetype for WIFOMing.
Huh?????
Phone post.
But doesn't just almost everything have some WIFOM in it?
@Ichi. Okay, but why does this make Arch suspicious?Because it just seems like poor reasoning to me. It's also arguing counter to what is seen as normal reads.
Vote: IchimaruOh well. Just go ahead and ignore that I'm always reactive and defensive no matter what my alignment (and I have displayed exactly this same behavior multiple times as town).
What I'm getting from him here, and looking back to his posting on day one, is that his posts feel like they're coming from scum who thinks that town is suspicious of him for the wrong reasons and is trying to deflect any suspicion. It's easy for scum to feel like there's more pressure on them than there actually is, and I find Ichi's reactions here (and his reactions day one) to be indicative of nervous scum.
@Ichi. Okay, but why does this make Arch suspicious?Because it just seems like poor reasoning to me. It's also arguing counter to what is seen as normal reads.
I mean, it's like Archetype ignores all of my D1 behavior and acts like that one post was the only one I made and takes issue with something that isn't even scummy.
That sort of thing'd be fine earlier on, but it seems really weird at this point. (And by weird I mean scummy).
Yes. That's right. Does that excuse anything though?@Ichi. Okay, but why does this make Arch suspicious?Because it just seems like poor reasoning to me. It's also arguing counter to what is seen as normal reads.
I mean, it's like Archetype ignores all of my D1 behavior and acts like that one post was the only one I made and takes issue with something that isn't even scummy.
That sort of thing'd be fine earlier on, but it seems really weird at this point. (And by weird I mean scummy).
Arch just joined though, right?
I feel like scott's choice of Voltaire and his explanation for it are odd. Several people said they found Volt towny day one but that was before the Robz lynch. I know that I at least find Voltaire scummier after what happened. And "I didn't have much time" might mean he had other stuff to worry about, like his faction's NK.
Hey everyone, back and caught up. I won't have time to dig into the game until tonight though. I think we're actually in a good position to lynch scum today even if we're in a bad position overall!
Yes. That's right. Does that excuse anything though?@Ichi. Okay, but why does this make Arch suspicious?Because it just seems like poor reasoning to me. It's also arguing counter to what is seen as normal reads.
I mean, it's like Archetype ignores all of my D1 behavior and acts like that one post was the only one I made and takes issue with something that isn't even scummy.
That sort of thing'd be fine earlier on, but it seems really weird at this point. (And by weird I mean scummy).
Arch just joined though, right?
I mean, I've never subbed before; I appreciate him doing it and can see that it could be hard to follow everything going on.
But especially if you are town, it's important to make educated votes. Not voting someone for a bad reason and distracting from scum.
Hey everyone, back and caught up. I won't have time to dig into the game until tonight though. I think we're actually in a good position to lynch scum today even if we're in a bad position overall!
Man, if we rolled a die to lynch someone we'd be in a good position to lynch scum today.
vote: Nik
Didn't SP claim cop?
vote: Nik
Worst choice.
Didn't SP claim cop?
Watcher, actually.vote: Nik
Worst choice.
I'm starting to get really suspicious of this. I don't see what you find so towny about Nik, and you're going way, way out of your way to defend him.
Bad news is I'm still catching up.Whoa. Didn't Archetype replace you?
Good news is I should finally have my apartment back and be able to read instead of snatch snippets in between cases at work when I get home.
I'm looking at how heavily you've been defending Nik. Either you're partners or you're scum hoping to get town cred for defending someone that you think is likely to flip town.
Well, I am going back and rereading everything. I am still not done, but who really stands out to me is Xerxes. His voting and reasoning seems erratic, to me at least.
Hey everyone, back and caught up. I won't have time to dig into the game until tonight though. I think we're actually in a good position to lynch scum today even if we're in a bad position overall!
Archetype did. He just posted mistakenly.Bad news is I'm still catching up.Whoa. Didn't Archetype replace you?
Good news is I should finally have my apartment back and be able to read instead of snatch snippets in between cases at work when I get home.
Can you update the OP to reflect this?Archetype did. He just posted mistakenly.Bad news is I'm still catching up.Whoa. Didn't Archetype replace you?
Good news is I should finally have my apartment back and be able to read instead of snatch snippets in between cases at work when I get home.
DoneCan you update the OP to reflect this?Archetype did. He just posted mistakenly.Bad news is I'm still catching up.Whoa. Didn't Archetype replace you?
Good news is I should finally have my apartment back and be able to read instead of snatch snippets in between cases at work when I get home.
I'm officially off VLA now, I'll read through tonight.
Sorry, Chairs!K. I'm cool with that. I'm used to votes on me for that reason--so probably need to change something in my meta though, cause I don't think overreactive town!Ichimaru is working.
Ichimaru, my original vote on you was more of me not having much to go off on, seeing something semi-scummy, and then voting to see how they'd react. You got unnecessarily up in arms about it, which I think is a scum trait. So I'm comfortable leaving my vote on you.
Sorry, Chairs!K. I'm cool with that. I'm used to votes on me for that reason--so probably need to change something in my meta though, cause I don't think overreactive town!Ichimaru is working.
Ichimaru, my original vote on you was more of me not having much to go off on, seeing something semi-scummy, and then voting to see how they'd react. You got unnecessarily up in arms about it, which I think is a scum trait. So I'm comfortable leaving my vote on you.
Yeah. Is that scummy to admit the truth? I mean I'd hope that everyone would see that this is how I normally am as town. (Just look at HoC--and in an ongoing game I was in).Sorry, Chairs!K. I'm cool with that. I'm used to votes on me for that reason--so probably need to change something in my meta though, cause I don't think overreactive town!Ichimaru is working.
Ichimaru, my original vote on you was more of me not having much to go off on, seeing something semi-scummy, and then voting to see how they'd react. You got unnecessarily up in arms about it, which I think is a scum trait. So I'm comfortable leaving my vote on you.
You'd agree you've been overreactive?
vote: AxxleI even forgot that we have 5 members of town dead including the D1 lynch. So that's even better odds (I can see Voltaire's optimism about lynching scum today).
For sheeping and likely being a mafia governor.
I don't like a lurker lynch here. And I think a Voltaire lynch is not great, since he's been investigated twice. On pure statistics he's half as likely as anyone else to be scum.
If I could vote anymore, I think I'd be voting IG.
I concur. I get a bit of a scumbud vibe for people finding Voltaire townie for information that's not that conclusive.I don't like a lurker lynch here. And I think a Voltaire lynch is not great, since he's been investigated twice. On pure statistics he's half as likely as anyone else to be scum.
If I could vote anymore, I think I'd be voting IG.
The thing about Voltaire is that I'm not sure that a Watcher investigation proves anything. The fact that no one but you tried to kill or target him last night makes it slightly more likely that he's scum, not less, and we do have a "not mafia" result on him but there are 2 possible other scum teams and the SK's (though if Volt is scum he's probably on a team with Nik).
I concur. I get a bit of a scumbud vibe for people finding Voltaire townie for information that's not that conclusive.I don't like a lurker lynch here. And I think a Voltaire lynch is not great, since he's been investigated twice. On pure statistics he's half as likely as anyone else to be scum.
If I could vote anymore, I think I'd be voting IG.
The thing about Voltaire is that I'm not sure that a Watcher investigation proves anything. The fact that no one but you tried to kill or target him last night makes it slightly more likely that he's scum, not less, and we do have a "not mafia" result on him but there are 2 possible other scum teams and the SK's (though if Volt is scum he's probably on a team with Nik).
Joth. And...I think S_P said something similar. So yeah, those two.I concur. I get a bit of a scumbud vibe for people finding Voltaire townie for information that's not that conclusive.I don't like a lurker lynch here. And I think a Voltaire lynch is not great, since he's been investigated twice. On pure statistics he's half as likely as anyone else to be scum.
If I could vote anymore, I think I'd be voting IG.
The thing about Voltaire is that I'm not sure that a Watcher investigation proves anything. The fact that no one but you tried to kill or target him last night makes it slightly more likely that he's scum, not less, and we do have a "not mafia" result on him but there are 2 possible other scum teams and the SK's (though if Volt is scum he's probably on a team with Nik).
Which people are those?
Yeah, uh. I don't think Joth is scum.Oh. Yeah. Duh on me :-[
I don't like a lurker lynch here. And I think a Voltaire lynch is not great, since he's been investigated twice. On pure statistics he's half as likely as anyone else to be scum.
If I could vote anymore, I think I'd be voting IG.
Joth, what are you thinking the factions look like that Voltaire is half as likely to be scum? He could be Mafia godfather or Mafia with that Alien ability existing anywhere, or any of the additional factions causing the night kills. Also survivor, lyncher, ... Is there an "antilyncher"?http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Greater_Idea_Mafia
Anyway, lots of other possibilities. I agree less likely, but I'm not sure it's that much.
Still haven't re-read. :( I can happily get behind a vote: axxle. I have a gut and I'm going to listen to it.This reads more like the Voltaire I've known before.
As far as Ichi, I don't know. I don't know what WW tunneling me means either.I feel like you may be better at reading than me than others, but I am not sure.
S_P hasn't been around much, but is he VLA?
So, with that reasoning, I am going change my vote.
I think you have some good points. Voltaire is almost certainly town.
I mean, yes, right now I am voting for EgorK because he is lurking. I mean that seems a bit suspicious to me, but maybe he has other things in life going on. I don't know. I guess I wished he was a little more active to get a better reading on him.
On Day 1, I felt IG was certainly town. However, he has a lot of analysis and talking going on which is a smart thing to do, especially if you are scum. I was thinking of voting him day 3 if he wasn't killed since someone who talks as much as him is likely to figure things out quicker. In other words, if he were not scum, he should be a prime target even if he has no PR simply because he seems like the type to put the pieces together. Also, him talking so much could be a way of him trying to look like town. But, the fact that he didn't die day 1 is perhaps telling. I mean, he was talking a lot in day 1. I would imagine scum would want to eliminate people that talk a lot. So, with that reasoning, I am going change my vote.
Vote: Ichimaru Gin
Let's break down the whole thing. He seems like he was trying to decide which lynch to push and then the IC came in and made it easy.I think that's actually a great case - I just tuned out people's posts for the most part, but your analysis is spot-on.I think you have some good points. Voltaire is almost certainly town.
No one up until now has said "Voltaire is almost certainly town" (I said, he's less likely to be scum) and, as everyone else pointed out, the investigative results clear him less than most people think. It's a crazy ovrsimplification.QuoteI mean, yes, right now I am voting for EgorK because he is lurking. I mean that seems a bit suspicious to me, but maybe he has other things in life going on. I don't know. I guess I wished he was a little more active to get a better reading on him.
"Well, this wagon didn't take off, time to try something new."QuoteOn Day 1, I felt IG was certainly town. However, he has a lot of analysis and talking going on which is a smart thing to do, especially if you are scum. I was thinking of voting him day 3 if he wasn't killed since someone who talks as much as him is likely to figure things out quicker. In other words, if he were not scum, he should be a prime target even if he has no PR simply because he seems like the type to put the pieces together. Also, him talking so much could be a way of him trying to look like town. But, the fact that he didn't die day 1 is perhaps telling. I mean, he was talking a lot in day 1. I would imagine scum would want to eliminate people that talk a lot. So, with that reasoning, I am going change my vote.
Vote: Ichimaru Gin
This is just a terrible case. He's scum because he's playing the game (never mind that Beyond Awesome just finished reasoning that EgorK was scum because he was NOT playing the game). And he's scum because he didn't die on a night when scum killed THREE MAJOR PRs! There's nothing here at all. It's a badly disguised bandwagon vote.
You guys should lynch Beyond Awesome. Or look back at his other posts and see if they are this scummy.
Still haven't re-read. :( I can happily get behind a vote: axxle. I have a gut and I'm going to listen to it.This reads more like the Voltaire I've known before.
I was a little concerned before with you being so gun-ho for Axxle yesterday, and not much today.
But this makes more sense.As far as Ichi, I don't know. I don't know what WW tunneling me means either.
I feel like you may be better at reading than me than others, but I am not sure.
Let's see, I think we've been in 2 games--one me as super inexperienced scum, and then HoC where I was basically an IC.
Aside from ADK, the rest of the people on my wagon are all mildly scummy to me.
And I now recall it was BA who earlier found Voltaire townie because of the watch and investigation on him (to answer ww's earlier question).
At any rate, I am happy with an Axxle lynch today. Nik is a little townier than before, but most of his posts are still votes. S_P hasn't been around much, but is he VLA? Oh, and Xerxes is very busy with another ongoing game--I've got mostly null reads on him. EgorK said he was rereading I believe; he's lurked so far though.
I don't like a lurker lynch here. And I think a Voltaire lynch is not great, since he's been investigated twice. On pure statistics he's half as likely as anyone else to be scum.
If I could vote anymore, I think I'd be voting IG.
I don't like a lurker lynch here. And I think a Voltaire lynch is not great, since he's been investigated twice. On pure statistics he's half as likely as anyone else to be scum.
If I could vote anymore, I think I'd be voting IG.
The thing about Voltaire is that I'm not sure that a Watcher investigation proves anything. The fact that no one but you tried to kill or target him last night makes it slightly more likely that he's scum, not less, and we do have a "not mafia" result on him but there are 2 possible other scum teams and the SK's (though if Volt is scum he's probably on a team with Nik).
I concur. I get a bit of a scumbud vibe for people finding Voltaire townie for information that's not that conclusive.I don't like a lurker lynch here. And I think a Voltaire lynch is not great, since he's been investigated twice. On pure statistics he's half as likely as anyone else to be scum.
If I could vote anymore, I think I'd be voting IG.
The thing about Voltaire is that I'm not sure that a Watcher investigation proves anything. The fact that no one but you tried to kill or target him last night makes it slightly more likely that he's scum, not less, and we do have a "not mafia" result on him but there are 2 possible other scum teams and the SK's (though if Volt is scum he's probably on a team with Nik).
I don't like a lurker lynch here. And I think a Voltaire lynch is not great, since he's been investigated twice. On pure statistics he's half as likely as anyone else to be scum.
If I could vote anymore, I think I'd be voting IG.
I think you have some good points. Voltaire is almost certainly town. I mean, yes, right now I am voting for EgorK because he is lurking. I mean that seems a bit suspicious to me, but maybe he has other things in life going on. I don't know. I guess I wished he was a little more active to get a better reading on him.
On Day 1, I felt IG was certainly town. However, he has a lot of analysis and talking going on which is a smart thing to do, especially if you are scum. I was thinking of voting him day 3 if he wasn't killed since someone who talks as much as him is likely to figure things out quicker. In other words, if he were not scum, he should be a prime target even if he has no PR simply because he seems like the type to put the pieces together. Also, him talking so much could be a way of him trying to look like town. But, the fact that he didn't die day 1 is perhaps telling. I mean, he was talking a lot in day 1. I would imagine scum would want to eliminate people that talk a lot. So, with that reasoning, I am going change my vote.
Vote: Ichimaru Gin
Still haven't re-read. :( I can happily get behind a vote: axxle. I have a gut and I'm going to listen to it.This reads more like the Voltaire I've known before.
I was a little concerned before with you being so gun-ho for Axxle yesterday, and not much today.
But this makes more sense.As far as Ichi, I don't know. I don't know what WW tunneling me means either.I feel like you may be better at reading than me than others, but I am not sure.
Let's see, I think we've been in 2 games--one me as super inexperienced scum, and then HoC where I was basically an IC.
Aside from ADK, the rest of the people on my wagon are all mildly scummy to me.
And I now recall it was BA who earlier found Voltaire townie because of the watch and investigation on him (to answer ww's earlier question).
At any rate, I am happy with an Axxle lynch today. Nik is a little townier than before, but most of his posts are still votes. S_P hasn't been around much, but is he VLA? Oh, and Xerxes is very busy with another ongoing game--I've got mostly null reads on him. EgorK said he was rereading I believe; he's lurked so far though.
Also, he'd been putting mild suspicion on me for being "erratic" which I don't think is either scummy or anti-town, and as town I've found that people suspecting me tend to be more likely scum than not.
Well, I am going back and rereading everything. I am still not done, but who really stands out to me is Xerxes. His voting and reasoning seems erratic, to me at least.
Vote: Ichimaru. This is L-1Ok. First of all, do you really think it's a good idea to put me at L-1 with no claim, like 5 days left, and likely very few members of town still alive?
6:27: BA says Voltaire is almost certainly townInteresting™
7:14: Ichi recalls that at 5:45 he was thinking of something that happened in the future
Why would anyone hammer here? That would certainly be a scummy thing to do.Dude. It wouldn't really matter if there's a scum (combined scumteams) majority, would it?
I don't see any merit in waiting for L-1. I think you should claim if you're going to.
Is this BA's first time? If so I'd prefer to not lynch them today at least.
Why would anyone hammer here? That would certainly be a scummy thing to do.Dude. It wouldn't really matter if there's a scum (combined scumteams) majority, would it?
I don't see any merit in waiting for L-1. I think you should claim if you're going to.
And man. We're only halfway through D2 and the case on me sucks. Why are you and XP pressuring me to claim?
I'd really like to hear from other people. Preferably people that I have townreads on.
I mean that size of scumteam x + scumteam y, etc could be bigger than the size of town after you lynch me.Why would anyone hammer here? That would certainly be a scummy thing to do.Dude. It wouldn't really matter if there's a scum (combined scumteams) majority, would it?
I don't see any merit in waiting for L-1. I think you should claim if you're going to.
And man. We're only halfway through D2 and the case on me sucks. Why are you and XP pressuring me to claim?
I'd really like to hear from other people. Preferably people that I have townreads on.
I don't follow the first point at all. What do you mean combined scumteams majority?
The case on you does not suck. Particularly the point about you scrambling to find anyone else scummy that you indicated that the only person around that is confirmed town is scummy. And then a statement which could not have been true. Also particularly is your constant appeals to your meta. "Overly defensive Ichi is town Ichi", "I'm acting like I always do as town," etc. (Yes those are paraphrased.) Also particularly that you're jumping on the people that anyone could easily get traction for a wagon---Axxle, SP, who both narrowly avoided lynches yesterday so people should be eager to jump on them today. And then BA after a good case is made against him.
You should claim now (if you're going to at all) because if you're not going to be lynched today, we should find someone else. It's much worse to have that happen in the last day/hours before deadline. What's the advantage to waiting?
So if # scumteam x + # scumteam y > #town, why does that matter? Why are only two scumteams used?Uh. I can't believe how hard you are working to misinterpret what I say and find it scummy. I said scumteam x and scumteam y , etc!!
You said BA and Axxle were your two preferences for today. Earlier you tried to peg SP by doing something scummy which he didn't do. Those points aren't illegitimate.
This has nothing to do with the alignment of BA, Axxle, SP, except that they're likely different from yours. They could still be scum. The point I'm making is that it looks, to me, like you're trying to jump to the next-most-likely person to get lynched today.
I see a lot of Lovers on the list. What was the card?
How do Lovers work? Is the partner selected randomly, or does it come from another Lover role?I do not have a partner. Thus I can only assume that it, like everything else, was randomly card based and no one had another lover role.
In this setup, everyone who picked a "Lover" role is a lover with each other. If one dies, they all die (I think that's how it works).Well my role PM said that I didn't have a partner. And I don't have a qt or anything.
There are vanilla lovers but also the possibility for lovers within the various scum factions.
That said, the possibility of killing multiple town players with one lynch is probably a risk we don't want to take, so unvote.
PPE: Do you know you have no partner, or are lovers just not informed?
There is only one Mafia Lover and one Alien Lover. Are they part of the same group as Town Lover from Chapel? I know it says the "Loverizer" type roles creates different groups.Well if they do exist, I at least can't communicate with them. It's a good question though.
Oh, sorry. But I still don't get the sum greater than town thing.
Oh. I see. I meant it as meaning that your comment about someone not hammering me because it seemed scummy was less likely.Oh, sorry. But I still don't get the sum greater than town thing.
I legitimately missed the "etc" when I read your post Ichi, but regardless this is the thing I'm not understanding. So my question is rephrased as "So if (sum of all scumteam cardonalities) > # town, what does that mean"?
Oh. I see. I meant it as meaning that your comment about someone not hammering me because it seemed scummy was less likely.Oh, sorry. But I still don't get the sum greater than town thing.
I legitimately missed the "etc" when I read your post Ichi, but regardless this is the thing I'm not understanding. So my question is rephrased as "So if (sum of all scumteam cardonalities) > # town, what does that mean"?
e.g. with a scum majority they wouldn't care.
PPE: 1
So I'm inclined to believe Ichi's claim, given how risky it would be to have the "no other lovers" bit counterclaimed.
I wouldn't avoid lynching BA just because he's new. Scummy is scummy.
PPE: from what I remember only the "loverizer" group is separate. All other lovers would be in one group, and if ichi's PM specifically says he has no partner, I'm inclined to believe that there aren't any other lovers.
If there are, of course, please come claim and we can lynch Ichi. But I don't think he'd take that risk as scum.
Just that if there's a scum majority then it's not like they'd be concerned about looking scummy. I don't think (hope) that this is the case at this point. But if we were to lose another member of town, I'm not sure. Also, yeah, I'm not sure who would even know how many total scum there were, but maybe if one faction were bigger than the others, they'd have a better idea.Oh. I see. I meant it as meaning that your comment about someone not hammering me because it seemed scummy was less likely.Oh, sorry. But I still don't get the sum greater than town thing.
I legitimately missed the "etc" when I read your post Ichi, but regardless this is the thing I'm not understanding. So my question is rephrased as "So if (sum of all scumteam cardonalities) > # town, what does that mean"?
e.g. with a scum majority they wouldn't care.
PPE: 1
Right, but what are you suggesting, that different scum factions are working together to get a combined majority over the town?
I wasn't going to hammer IG, even if he didn't claim. I just thought that in such a precarious position, we'd want to have the information in case IG had a result, so that scum wouldn't hammer and deny us the information.
If BA is scummy but new, we can lynch him tomorrow - I don't think we're in that urgent a situation that we need to hit scum for sure today. He might die in the night to other scum teams that see his scumminess, so we'd be wasting our lynch.
Trust me guys, more than anything, I want us to lynch scum. I was basing my Ichi vote based off what joth said because I trust him more than any player since he is dead. Joth said he wasn't sure about going after a rather inactive player, so that is why I removed my vote on him. And, joth said he felt ichi was scum, so I agreed with joth and listed my reasoning for such. I don't see why agreeing with a dead town member makes me look like scum. I guess maybe my reasoning may have looked a bit scummy, but I was just trying to think things through before making my vote against ich.
Is this BA's first time? If so I'd prefer to not lynch them today at least.
Why is that at all relevant?
OK, I think that IG is much more likely town, I now have a reasonably large scum read on WW as this whole thing goes down (driving me, twisting IG's words, the whole looking-at-the-timestamps thing (there's no way town does that, no way at all, town makes those kinds of misrememberings, not scum, it's part of a fake case), and I maintain a large scum read on BA. xp, light town I think?
A-ok with a BA or WW lynch today.
OK, I think that IG is much more likely town, I now have a reasonably large scum read on WW as this whole thing goes down (driving me, twisting IG's words, the whole looking-at-the-timestamps thing (there's no way town does that, no way at all, town makes those kinds of misrememberings, not scum, it's part of a fake case), and I maintain a large scum read on BA. xp, light town I think?
A-ok with a BA or WW lynch today.
I did no twisting of words at all.
Sure, it could have been a misremembering, but it looked to me like "quick! I need to deflect suspicion!"
You are right that you didn't twist words so much as point out a "misremembering" that never actually comes from scum (in my experience) and always from town. And this sort of argument (the kind you made) more often comes from scum. Then there is the you pushing me thing, which doesn't make you scum but seems so strange to me.
I think I'd rather lynch BA before you, though, and so my vote remains on him.
I get a very strong scum vibe off of WW. He is my preferred lynch over Axxle who is also suspicious to me, as well. However, I think WW is more likely scum or even possibly they are both scum.
I get a very strong scum vibe off of WW. He is my preferred lynch over Axxle who is also suspicious to me, as well. However, I think WW is more likely scum or even possibly they are both scum.
What is suspicious about Axxle to you?
I get a very strong scum vibe off of WW. He is my preferred lynch over Axxle who is also suspicious to me, as well. However, I think WW is more likely scum or even possibly they are both scum.
What is suspicious about Axxle to you?
The fact that he seems to be posting very little D2. And, while I initially thought it was likely he picked Governor, I also think he may have thought that discarding Mountebank may have been more likely to have given him a scummy role if he had Nobles in his hand. Regardless, it is a 50/50 shot that Axxle is scum.
I get a very strong scum vibe off of WW. He is my preferred lynch over Axxle who is also suspicious to me, as well. However, I think WW is more likely scum or even possibly they are both scum.
What is suspicious about Axxle to you?
The fact that he seems to be posting very little D2. And, while I initially thought it was likely he picked Governor, I also think he may have thought that discarding Mountebank may have been more likely to have given him a scummy role if he had Nobles in his hand. Regardless, it is a 50/50 shot that Axxle is scum.
How could that (bolded part) be true?
What's the probability that a generic player that is still alive is scum?
Vote: AxxleAs an observation. I think it's worth noting that ADK has gotten almost zero suspicion and has avoided attention almost entirely. I don't get a particularly scummy feeling from him, but I felt the same in HoC when he was scum. I didn't actually know the rules about lovers, but now I understand them I think.
I feel like he's flying under the radar. He sort of disappeared after Governing his own lynch, which isn't how I feel a town Governor would play it. Town Governor would get more involved after that. Scum Governor would lie low and hope that the momentum required to get his lynch going again would be enough to stop it from actually happening.
RE: people who are actually posting- I would be okay lynching BA. I also didn't consider the possibility, I think pointed out by WW, that Ichi is a scum lover and is telling the truth that he doesn't have partners. That's the perfect claiming situation for scum, since they know they won't be counterclaimed, and provides the perfect fallback, which would allow him to put himself out there as much as he has this game. So I think I would be okay going back to an Ichi lynch too.
I arrived at the conclusion because that was my line of reasoning. Initially, before the roles were reshuffled, I discarded King's Court thinking the other card would be more powerful, which actually ended up not being the case at all. And, as it is, we know there are two Governors, so that gives Axxle a 50% chance at being scum.
I arrived at the conclusion because that was my line of reasoning. Initially, before the roles were reshuffled, I discarded King's Court thinking the other card would be more powerful, which actually ended up not being the case at all. And, as it is, we know there are two Governors, so that gives Axxle a 50% chance at being scum.
Oh, you mean you thought your role was some combination of what you discarded and what you kept, instead of a 1-1 correspondence with the card you kept?
I could see that, but I don't see why you would think Axxle would think that, since Axxle came out with a pretty clear knowledge of how this setup worked. He even justified his reason for keeping Governor, so he was clearly thinking what the kept card means in terms of the role.
And to the other point, I was asking you: We have 11 players alive. Pick one randomly. What's the chance he's scum?
Obviously we don't know, but it's probably bigger than 50%. This should indicate that (1) Someone that is 50/50 is *more likely* to be town than the average player, and (2) Axxle (and Scott P who is in the same boat) should be more likely to be scum than 50%.
However, I do think that this conversation is you trying to deflect my instincts about you being scum and try to change my opinion of you.
Vote: WW
As an observation. I think it's worth noting that ADK has gotten almost zero suspicion and has avoided attention almost entirely.
However, I do think that this conversation is you trying to deflect my instincts about you being scum and try to change my opinion of you.
Vote: WW
I could lynch Ichimaru, scott_pilgrim, or Axxle. Ichimaru for reasons stated previously and scott/Axxle because they have a 50/50 chance at flipping scum. I still need to reread those two to figure out which it is.
I just wanted everyone to know that I had a chance to look over on the mafia wiki. It was down for the past few days, and so now I read up on a few roles and realized that I misunderstood a few things. First, I was inferring some of the roles based on chat on here. So, I looked up joths and SPs roles and realized what took place and that joth investigated Volt getting the result Not Mafia which is not saying much since it is likely he can be some other form of scum. For some reason, I thought people were arguing whether or not volt could give a false reading. Sorry guys. Anyway, with that said, I would say that it stands to reason that joths results don't say much about volt, so he can very well likely be scum.There was a bit of that talk. Someone mentioned the "Alien Psychotrooper (While alive, all cops with 'guilty/not guilty' format results are Insane)". I think it's safe to assume he doesn't exist unless he flips though.
Anyway, now that the wiki is up, I have a much, much better idea of roles and all that type of stuff. So, I am now a much better informed player.
And to the other point, I was asking you: We have 11 players alive. Pick one randomly. What's the chance he's scum?
Obviously we don't know, but it's probably bigger than 50%. This should indicate that (1) Someone that is 50/50 is *more likely* to be town than the average player, and (2) Axxle (and Scott P who is in the same boat) should be more likely to be scum than 50%.
It is still 50%, unless you meant that the other ones we know are all White or something.
And to the other point, I was asking you: We have 11 players alive. Pick one randomly. What's the chance he's scum?
Obviously we don't know, but it's probably bigger than 50%. This should indicate that (1) Someone that is 50/50 is *more likely* to be town than the average player, and (2) Axxle (and Scott P who is in the same boat) should be more likely to be scum than 50%.
Mathematically speaking it is not true. Please note I do not talk about Axxle in particular here, just about math
So let's imagine experiment: we first put marked white ball in the box with probability 50% otherwise we would put marked black ball, and then add some unmarked balls so that there is total 8 white and 8 black balls. Then we close box, take away 5 balls at random and they all happen to be unmarked balls. What is the probability that random marked ball is white now? Well, it is not 50%. It is actually the same as for random ball, not necessarily marked. That is difference between apriori and aposteriori probabilities
We do not deal with completely random events here so this should be taken with the grain of salt. It just my pet peeve when people talking about probabilities without actually contemplating what math would say
the case against Axxle is that he has acted more like a mafia governor than a scum governor -- using his power to save himself and not much else.
the case against Axxle is that he has acted more like a mafia governor than a scum governor -- using his power to save himself and not much else.
the case against Axxle is that he has acted more like a mafia governor than a scum governor -- using his power to save himself and not much else.
He was put in a tough spot though. I can't really say I blame him.
the case against Axxle is that he has acted more like a mafia governor than a scum governor -- using his power to save himself and not much else.
I assume you mean town, but I agree.
C'mon, everyone who was willing to put IG at L-1 - let's do that to BA! Or Axxle! Or WW! (in that order I think)
Guys, this is not a probability game, it's a social one.
Town is now "unmarked white balls"? That's just wrong...
So let's imagine experiment: ...
Thanks for the convenient way of thinking of it. But this doesn't contradict what I said, right? I said that the chance that an arbitrary one of is is town is (likely) less than 1/2. So if someone is (currently) 50/50, that actually suggests that you should be more inclined to think them town, not scum, if you're basing on probabilities (which you shouldn't). Axxle and SP shouldn't be thought of as 50/50 given the new information, because they have a greater than 50/50 chance to be scum (according to the thought experiment, the same as any of us).
My intuition did tell me that if, previously, the 50/50 people were more likely to be scum than an arbitrary one of us, then after the new information that we had, they would still be more likely than an arbitrary one of us. Though my intuition on probability is always wrong. But that's still not important to the point I was making.
The point I was making was that BA's reason for suspecting Axxle was very weak, which is relevant because (a) Someone just previously voted for Axxle, and (b) BA was previously called out for sheeping while providing shaky justification.
Guys, this is not a probability game, it's a social one.
Exactly. But if people use probabilities they better use them correctlyTown is now "unmarked white balls"? That's just wrong...So let's imagine experiment: ...Thanks for the convenient way of thinking of it. But this doesn't contradict what I said, right? I said that the chance that an arbitrary one of is is town is (likely) less than 1/2. So if someone is (currently) 50/50, that actually suggests that you should be more inclined to think them town, not scum, if you're basing on probabilities (which you shouldn't). Axxle and SP shouldn't be thought of as 50/50 given the new information, because they have a greater than 50/50 chance to be scum (according to the thought experiment, the same as any of us).
My intuition did tell me that if, previously, the 50/50 people were more likely to be scum than an arbitrary one of us, then after the new information that we had, they would still be more likely than an arbitrary one of us. Though my intuition on probability is always wrong. But that's still not important to the point I was making.
The point I was making was that BA's reason for suspecting Axxle was very weak, which is relevant because (a) Someone just previously voted for Axxle, and (b) BA was previously called out for sheeping while providing shaky justification.
But some event that was 50% on D1 is not 50% now. That's what I was saying
Back to continuing my reread
Alright guys, I am town and have the ability to kill myself and become like joth if I claim my role. My card is Embargo.
Alright guys, I am town and have the ability to kill myself and become like joth if I claim my role. My card is Embargo.
I'm inclined to believe this. It's verifiable and there is only one.. doesn't seem like a likely fake claim.
Unvote
Alright guys, I am town and have the ability to kill myself and become like joth if I claim my role. My card is Embargo.
I'm inclined to believe this. It's verifiable and there is only one.. doesn't seem like a likely fake claim.
Unvote
Really? Seems like a plausible fake claim to me. The only way to verify it is for him to use the power, which we obviously aren't going to ask him to do. There's only one of most roles anyway, and scum is more likely to pick something that there's only one of, since picking something with multiple copies will be seen as scummy.
Alright guys, I am town and have the ability to kill myself and become like joth if I claim my role. My card is Embargo.
I'm inclined to believe this. It's verifiable and there is only one.. doesn't seem like a likely fake claim.
Unvote
Really? Seems like a plausible fake claim to me. The only way to verify it is for him to use the power, which we obviously aren't going to ask him to do. There's only one of most roles anyway, and scum is more likely to pick something that there's only one of, since picking something with multiple copies will be seen as scummy.
I mean, he did say earlier this day that he had just spent time looking up roles. I don't think it's safe to assume that he's uninformed.
And BA, if that is your power, you shouldn't use it right now. Another town player losing their vote is the last thing we need.
So, BA, you said first round you discarded King's Court because you thought it would enhance the role form the card that you kept.
Why did you discard Altar this round?
And while I'm asking, to Ichi, why did you discard Moat?
So, BA, you said first round you discarded King's Court because you thought it would enhance the role form the card that you kept.
Why did you discard Altar this round?
And while I'm asking, to Ichi, why did you discard Moat?
I thought that the roles were sort of a reverse psychology thing. So, I figured that by discarding King's Court, I would end up with a more powerful card. The reason I discarded Altar is for the same reason, out of the two cards, I felt it was more powerful so by discarding it, I felt I would get a more powerful role. Honestly, though, I had no idea what I was doing with the card choices. This was my first game, so I did not know what to expect.
Also, I do have a question, since KC is a one-shot Kingmaker, what does that mean exactly?
And while I'm asking, to Ichi, why did you discard Moat?Well, even though mail-mi said that the relative power of a role wouldn't be related to its power as a card. Since I didn't have much of an idea of what they would do, I picked chapel because I like that card better--and it's a more powerful card in dominion at least.
And while I'm asking, to Ichi, why did you discard Moat?Well, even though mail-mi said that the relative power of a role wouldn't be related to its power as a card. Since I didn't have much of an idea of what they would do, I picked chapel because I like that card better--and it's a more powerful card in dominion at least.
Keeping moat would have made me a retired werewolf hunter it looks like?
Is that werewolf faction, or like someone who hunts werewolves?
in fact, we know we have at least one alien.
I don't know what to make of either of them. More and more I like the Axxle lynch over the Voltaire lynch.
Here is one thing. Axxle is half-cleared. We had two cops. We might have a seer. If we have a seer, then we can get him more cleared. I mean, he could be an alien or a SK.
Are cops in this game just useless? geez.
But that Alienscrewsupcops role only effects cops who get "Guilty/Not Guilty". That doesn't sound like it would affect someone who returns "Mafia/Not Mafia" or something like that, right? So what cops theoretically would get "Guilty/Not Guilty"?
But that Alienscrewsupcops role only effects cops who get "Guilty/Not Guilty". That doesn't sound like it would affect someone who returns "Mafia/Not Mafia" or something like that, right? So what cops theoretically would get "Guilty/Not Guilty"?
I read "Guilty/Not Guilty" as "X/Not X, where X \in {Mafia, Alien, Werewolf, SK}" or something like that.
But that Alienscrewsupcops role only effects cops who get "Guilty/Not Guilty". That doesn't sound like it would affect someone who returns "Mafia/Not Mafia" or something like that, right? So what cops theoretically would get "Guilty/Not Guilty"?
I read "Guilty/Not Guilty" as "X/Not X, where X \in {Mafia, Alien, Werewolf, SK}" or something like that.
That makes sense as long as there isn't actually a cop who gets "Guilty/Not Guilty" (which would sound like checking for killing ability, ie catching town Vigs as well or something)
I also think we need to stop getting people to L-1 and backing off when they claim. Scum is perfectly capable of lying for claims, and the more PRs we out the more power scum has.
I'm inclined to go off of my actual read on him rather than analyzing his card choice, since there isn't really a way to know what assumptions anyone made while making their card choices. He's been very lurky since his governor business, and it seems a lot like he's hanging back and hoping that the wagon on him simply won't start up again due to inertia.
I also think we need to stop getting people to L-1 and backing off when they claim. Scum is perfectly capable of lying for claims, and the more PRs we out the more power scum has.
I'm not sold on the Axxle argument. I still think if there were Mountebank and Nobles he would have kept Nobles. However, I can see him keeping Governor.
So, why do you guys think Axxle is likely mafia governor?
I'm not sold on the Axxle argument. I still think if there were Mountebank and Nobles he would have kept Nobles. However, I can see him keeping Governor.
So, why do you guys think Axxle is likely mafia governor?
So Nobles corresponds with Mafia Governor and Governor corresponds with Town Governor. What are you saying here?
I don't know what to make of either of them. More and more I like the Axxle lynch over the Voltaire lynch.
Here is one thing. Axxle is half-cleared. We had two cops. We might have a seer. If we have a seer, then we can get him more cleared. I mean, he could be an alien or a SK.
Are cops in this game just useless? geez.
Axxle can't be SK or Alien. Axxle can only be Town or Mafia. There are only two Governor abilities. And Seer only checks Werewolf?
If we had a Seer for SP, we could figure him out, since he's either Town or Werewolf. Unless that Alien investigationmessuperizor is in the game.
this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.
I also think we need to stop getting people to L-1 and backing off when they claim. Scum is perfectly capable of lying for claims, and the more PRs we out the more power scum has.
This is why I'm extra-happy to lynch axxle.
this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.
I can say it as either alignment, but it's only true in one.this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.
Yeah, but that's easy enough to say as either alignment...
I can say it as either alignment, but it's only true in one.this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.
Yeah, but that's easy enough to say as either alignment...
I can say it as either alignment, but it's only true in one.this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.
Yeah, but that's easy enough to say as either alignment...
Oh, I wasn't talking about not caring about it. I meant my play in general.I can say it as either alignment, but it's only true in one.this game just isn't high priority for me. and you've all seen my scumgame, this isn't it.Hmm. Sounds a little bit like what Robz said.
Yeah, but that's easy enough to say as either alignment...
I guess to me, not caring about a game shouldn't be indicative of alignment. If it were, then you could easily just pretend not to care about a game in which you are scum, and use that to get away with not posting, which could be what you're doing here which I guess is just WIFOM. But really, I don't think you're really that much more likely to care about a game as scum than as town that it should have a significant impact on whether people decide to lynch you.
One thing to note is that in D1 everyone was discussing how Axxle likes to play scum. Maybe Axxle is not invested in this game because, well, he isn't scum. I don't know. Anyway, I'm still not convinced with an Axxle lynch. I also didn't feel good with an Robz lynch for what it's worth.And like a billion townies died. That means there are a lot of scumteams. That means that scumtells are really really hard to find since everyones scumhunting and everyones trying to not die and everyones blah blah blah.
One thing to note is that in D1 everyone was discussing how Axxle likes to play scum. Maybe Axxle is not invested in this game because, well, he isn't scum. I don't know. Anyway, I'm still not convinced with an Axxle lynch. I also didn't feel good with an Robz lynch for what it's worth.And like a billion townies died. That means there are a lot of scumteams. That means that scumtells are really really hard to find since everyones scumhunting and everyones trying to not die and everyones blah blah blah.
what is the point of this question?One thing to note is that in D1 everyone was discussing how Axxle likes to play scum. Maybe Axxle is not invested in this game because, well, he isn't scum. I don't know. Anyway, I'm still not convinced with an Axxle lynch. I also didn't feel good with an Robz lynch for what it's worth.And like a billion townies died. That means there are a lot of scumteams. That means that scumtells are really really hard to find since everyones scumhunting and everyones trying to not die and everyones blah blah blah.
How would you know if there are scum teams are not? I figure in this setup it is very possible that there are only one-ofs of different factions.
what is the point of this question?One thing to note is that in D1 everyone was discussing how Axxle likes to play scum. Maybe Axxle is not invested in this game because, well, he isn't scum. I don't know. Anyway, I'm still not convinced with an Axxle lynch. I also didn't feel good with an Robz lynch for what it's worth.And like a billion townies died. That means there are a lot of scumteams. That means that scumtells are really really hard to find since everyones scumhunting and everyones trying to not die and everyones blah blah blah.
How would you know if there are scum teams are not? I figure in this setup it is very possible that there are only one-ofs of different factions.
I think BA's claim makes him townier, because 1. it is verifiable (although to verify it we basically have to put him into a situation where we say stump yourself or we lynch you, which we wouldn't want to do unless he was our preferred lynch option anyway), 2. I think scum would prefer a non-unique fakeclaim, and 3. a newbie claim somehow seems more believable to me, I think because it just seems like he would have claimed something safer (maybe I'm just reiterating 1 and 2 now...)
What do you think is more likely. I would bother typing out "multiple scum persons who may or may not be on the same team because I don't know because I'm town of course and no town can every shorten their thoughts into a concise sentence or make any mental shortcuts of any kind" or...what is the point of this question?One thing to note is that in D1 everyone was discussing how Axxle likes to play scum. Maybe Axxle is not invested in this game because, well, he isn't scum. I don't know. Anyway, I'm still not convinced with an Axxle lynch. I also didn't feel good with an Robz lynch for what it's worth.And like a billion townies died. That means there are a lot of scumteams. That means that scumtells are really really hard to find since everyones scumhunting and everyones trying to not die and everyones blah blah blah.
How would you know if there are scum teams are not? I figure in this setup it is very possible that there are only one-ofs of different factions.
Well, you are saying there are scum teams. I mean, it could just be conjecture on your part, or you could know something that we don't know because you are on a team yourself.
You mean BA (just in case anyone else is confused)I think BA's claim makes him townier, because 1. it is verifiable (although to verify it we basically have to put him into a situation where we say stump yourself or we lynch you, which we wouldn't want to do unless he was our preferred lynch option anyway), 2. I think scum would prefer a non-unique fakeclaim, and 3. a newbie claim somehow seems more believable to me, I think because it just seems like he would have claimed something safer (maybe I'm just reiterating 1 and 2 now...)
1. If Nik's claim is verifiable without removing him from the game, it's not verifiable.
2. There's 139 roles. Scum's likely to take a chance since a non-unique on is going to look scummy.
3. It seems like a safe claim to me, precisely because it's unverifiable.
I think Ichi is very, very likely town for reasons that SP has already stated.
I know Archetype hasn't had a chance to read over everything yet. I think he could very well be scum, but I think we should give him a chance to chime in more.
Though why would I need another lover to inform me that there weren't any others? Because all lovers would share the same pool or qt or whatever.I think Ichi is very, very likely town for reasons that SP has already stated.
I don't think IG is necessarily town, I just think he is definitely a lover (and that there are no other lovers in the game, if there were they would have counterclaimed by now). I think there is the possibility that IG is a mafia lover or alien lover, so I don't think his claim is indicative of alignment. I think I actually lean scum on him right now.
Another possibility I just thought of: IG could be scum partners with a lover who knows (and has informed him) that there are no other lovers. Not sure exactly why that would have been the fakeclaim for him and not his scum partner (who actually is the lover), even less sure why we would care if that were the case. Just putting that thought out there.
Okay, I guess a random vote isn't a good idea. I agree about ADK, so vote: ADK
Okay, I guess a random vote isn't a good idea. I agree about ADK, so vote: ADK
Is the case on me just that I haven't had anyone suspicious of me yet? That's seems like a pretty weak argument when there are such heavy lurkers and scummy behavior from people like Ichi.
Lynch ADK anyway? Lynch through whatever claim he makes? Lynch axxle instead?I would be ok lynching Axxle, Nik (Yes I know), ww, and probably EgorK.
Remind me who you want to lynch other than ADK, IG.
If we hadn't already had so many claims, ADK would be near the top of my lynch choices today. The almost total lack of suspicion and pressure that he has enjoyed--in addition to his passing under everyone's radar is pretty scummy. The way he defended himself by attempting to pass off suspicion on lurkers and generically-scummy-people is quite suspect.
Rereading some, he pushed ww pretty hard early on for his "joke" vote on Robz. Hmm, and then he does a 180 on Axxle with only about 2 sentences of explanation.
Generally what I see him doing in this game is asking a lot of questions but not really committing or making cases against other people. I think asking questions is a generally safe behavior that makes it seem like you're participating--while also making it hard for people to find you scummy. It's assumed that scum knows more about the setup anyway, so asking questions can also be a way to avert suspicion or at least avoid the "do you know something that we don't?" comments.
axxle, what would you think about lynching s_p?I'd rather get lynched. Even if sp is mafia he can find the other factions
And I've lost all of my scum!WW read, because posts like that are thoughtful and helpful and pro-town. So that's fine. There are too many plausible lynches today anyway.
Lynch a claim, lynch Axxle.
Lynch an unclaimed, lynch ADK.
There, I've decided. Let's do it.
Note that I'm still voting Axxle.
I also don't know why people are treating these weak-ass claims like they're "get-out-of-lynch-free" cards. BA's is totally unverifiable, Ichi's, Axxle, and S_P's are all available for scum, and if part of the point of claiming is to avoid lynching a powerful town role, besides S_P then we've essentially got three named VTs. Scum is going to lie when asked to claim, and all the claims we've had look to me like the things scum would come up with.
Quick post. My neighborhood electricty is down. Library closes in two minutes. I should be active again tonight or tomorrow when electricty comes back.Unvote
So he won't have access for a few hours or so. This is enough to warrant an unvote?Quick post. My neighborhood electricty is down. Library closes in two minutes. I should be active again tonight or tomorrow when electricty comes back.Unvote
I'm also a little unsure why Nik is completely off the table because Volt says so. Nik has been nothing to indicate his towniness except do things that don't make sense, and that point is only convincing to Volt. I'm still far from convinced of Volt's towniness here, but I've lost my gusto for it. And besides, Volt is an active and good player, so it's not worth taking the risk right now
You are correct that the possibility of a scum lover is dangerous. Your argument is WIFOM though and more out of self-interest than reads I think. There is obviously no way for you to know my alignment 100%. Really you are voting me because you think my claim is "convenient" or whatever. Or basically, (if you are town, which I doubt) you are fearful that I am a scum-lover.I'm also a little unsure why Nik is completely off the table because Volt says so. Nik has been nothing to indicate his towniness except do things that don't make sense, and that point is only convincing to Volt. I'm still far from convinced of Volt's towniness here, but I've lost my gusto for it. And besides, Volt is an active and good player, so it's not worth taking the risk right now
This, except that I don't think that's it's not worth the risk. I would be behind a Nik lynch.
I'm also not sure why people are no longer considering Ichi. The more I think about it, the more a Lover claim seems completely suspicious. If he is a scum lover (or even has a scum lover on his team), then he would know ahead of time that the claim was completely safe. We also know that one of the scum teams where lover is possible (aliens) is in the game.
Vote: Ichimaru
As for the case against me, I'm not sure what I can say against an argument based around how people are reacting to me rather than anything I've actually posted.
Yes.So he won't have access for a few hours or so. This is enough to warrant an unvote?Quick post. My neighborhood electricty is down. Library closes in two minutes. I should be active again tonight or tomorrow when electricty comes back.Unvote
Phone postingYes.So he won't have access for a few hours or so. This is enough to warrant an unvote?Quick post. My neighborhood electricty is down. Library closes in two minutes. I should be active again tonight or tomorrow when electricty comes back.Unvote
My point is, I found you scummy before you claimed, and I don't think anyone else who did should let your claim dissuade them.So basically you'd already decided that I was scum, or you were going to tunnel me regardless of my claim or seemingly anything else that I do.
vote: ADKVote: ADK
seems more likely than axxle at this point
I'll revote once he's had a chance to defend himself.Phone postingYes.So he won't have access for a few hours or so. This is enough to warrant an unvote?Quick post. My neighborhood electricty is down. Library closes in two minutes. I should be active again tonight or tomorrow when electricty comes back.Unvote
Could you please elaborate on this? It's not like we're lynching BA right now while he's gone and doesn't have a chance to defend himself. So what about that post made you unvote?
I found you scummy, and I don't think that your particular claim mitigates that read.My point is, I found you scummy before you claimed, and I don't think anyone else who did should let your claim dissuade them.So basically you'd already decided that I was scum, or you were going to tunnel me regardless of my claim or seemingly anything else that I do.
vote: ADK
seems more likely than axxle at this point
I'll revote once he's had a chance to defend himself.Phone postingYes.So he won't have access for a few hours or so. This is enough to warrant an unvote?Quick post. My neighborhood electricty is down. Library closes in two minutes. I should be active again tonight or tomorrow when electricty comes back.Unvote
Could you please elaborate on this? It's not like we're lynching BA right now while he's gone and doesn't have a chance to defend himself. So what about that post made you unvote?
I think we should ask BA to stump himself tomorrow or the day after if he hasn't died by then. At worst, we'll get an IC who can't vote. I bet people other than me also are fine lynching Axxle through his claim, too, so no, the claims are not get-out-of-jail free cards.Okay, I guess a random vote isn't a good idea. I agree about ADK, so vote: ADK
Is the case on me just that I haven't had anyone suspicious of me yet? That's seems like a pretty weak argument when there are such heavy lurkers and scummy behavior from people like Ichi.
I also don't know why people are treating these weak-ass claims like they're "get-out-of-lynch-free" cards. BA's is totally unverifiable, Ichi's, Axxle, and S_P's are all available for scum, and if part of the point of claiming is to avoid lynching a powerful town role, besides S_P then we've essentially got three named VTs. Scum is going to lie when asked to claim, and all the claims we've had look to me like the things scum would come up with.
How so? What exactly have I done that's scummier than what axxle's been doing today, which is pretty much nothing?
I think we should ask BA to stump himself tomorrow or the day after if he hasn't died by then. At worst, we'll get an IC who can't vote. I bet people other than me also are fine lynching Axxle through his claim, too, so no, the claims are not get-out-of-jail free cards.Okay, I guess a random vote isn't a good idea. I agree about ADK, so vote: ADK
Is the case on me just that I haven't had anyone suspicious of me yet? That's seems like a pretty weak argument when there are such heavy lurkers and scummy behavior from people like Ichi.
I also don't know why people are treating these weak-ass claims like they're "get-out-of-lynch-free" cards. BA's is totally unverifiable, Ichi's, Axxle, and S_P's are all available for scum, and if part of the point of claiming is to avoid lynching a powerful town role, besides S_P then we've essentially got three named VTs. Scum is going to lie when asked to claim, and all the claims we've had look to me like the things scum would come up with.
That's L-2, I believe.
This is demonstrably untrue. Far before you voted for me, I voiced my suspicion of you both for your behavior and the lack of suspicion on you. And I don't recall saying much about my reads on you in general, given how you have avoided attention pretty much this whole game.That's L-2, I believe.
I think it's L-1, actually.
If I'm really going down, I might as well try to analyze my own wagon. There's a good chance scum will outnumber town tomorrow, but as long as whatever separate scum teams there are focus on eliminating each other we still have a chance. I see Ichi and BA's votes on me as largely self-defensive, Ichi in particular is very OMGUS-y; I was one of his strongest town reads until I started expressing suspicion of him. XP also came out of the woodwork to vote for me, I would be very suspicious of him going forward. I can kind of understand Voltaire voting for me out of convenience, especially so close to the deadline, but I also see him being weirdly protective of players that I don't find towny at all (Ichi, Nik). Maybe we just disagree but I obviously can't be sure.
Lurkers be lurking here, and although my post count isn't the highest I've been here the whole time. I really think that people need to reconsider how they're treating the claims that have been made. I think that we would be justified in lynching practically any of the claimees, and if anyone is willing to listen to me, I'm ready to use my vote for that.
Aside from ADK, the rest of the people on my wagon are all mildly scummy to me.
Town reads on: XP, Beyond Awesome, ADK
Town read on ADK; from his behavior D1 and now, I feel pretty sure that he's town.
This gives me more of a town-read on ADK I think
No, you're right that I did find you townie earlier. You can see from the dates on the posts though that that was well before you decided to vote for me. I am not as sure about your wagon as I was before though...Aside from ADK, the rest of the people on my wagon are all mildly scummy to me.Town reads on: XP, Beyond Awesome, ADKTown read on ADK; from his behavior D1 and now, I feel pretty sure that he's town.This gives me more of a town-read on ADK I think
As for the lack of suspicion on me, it's not like I haven't been present and posting and interacting with people. Lack of attention and lack of negative attention aren't the same thing. Sorry for not being scummier I guess?
Had scum reads on Nik, but Volt is rather convincing
Vote: Ichimaru
Aside from ADK, the rest of the people on my wagon are all mildly scummy to me.
Ha. That must have been a different time that you voted for me. Not the most recent one after I had already found you scummy.Vote: IchimaruAside from ADK, the rest of the people on my wagon are all mildly scummy to me.
Note the dates.
Vote: AxxleAs an observation. I think it's worth noting that ADK has gotten almost zero suspicion and has avoided attention almost entirely. I don't get a particularly scummy feeling from him, but I felt the same in HoC when he was scum. I didn't actually know the rules about lovers, but now I understand them I think.
I feel like he's flying under the radar. He sort of disappeared after Governing his own lynch, which isn't how I feel a town Governor would play it. Town Governor would get more involved after that. Scum Governor would lie low and hope that the momentum required to get his lynch going again would be enough to stop it from actually happening.
RE: people who are actually posting- I would be okay lynching BA. I also didn't consider the possibility, I think pointed out by WW, that Ichi is a scum lover and is telling the truth that he doesn't have partners. That's the perfect claiming situation for scum, since they know they won't be counterclaimed, and provides the perfect fallback, which would allow him to put himself out there as much as he has this game. So I think I would be okay going back to an Ichi lynch too.
That's what makes it an interesting role if you actually have partners, because your fellow lover(s) could be of different alignments right?
Note the dates on these.I'm also a little unsure why Nik is completely off the table because Volt says so. Nik has been nothing to indicate his towniness except do things that don't make sense, and that point is only convincing to Volt. I'm still far from convinced of Volt's towniness here, but I've lost my gusto for it. And besides, Volt is an active and good player, so it's not worth taking the risk right now
This, except that I don't think that's it's not worth the risk. I would be behind a Nik lynch.
I'm also not sure why people are no longer considering Ichi. The more I think about it, the more a Lover claim seems completely suspicious. If he is a scum lover (or even has a scum lover on his team), then he would know ahead of time that the claim was completely safe. We also know that one of the scum teams where lover is possible (aliens) is in the game.
Vote: Ichimaru
As for the case against me, I'm not sure what I can say against an argument based around how people are reacting to me rather than anything I've actually posted.
Speaking of which, could we get a vote count?
cause I don't have a very good idea of where things stand right now.
Speaking of which, could we get a vote count?
cause I don't have a very good idea of where things stand right now.
Yeah, reading through just now*, I'm worried I may have hammered.
*not that worried, probably would have wanted to lynch through his claim, but it also seems like he might not have anyway and his most recent post wasn't convincing. He said I defended/deflected from IG and that's not true, I wanted to lynch IG and then he claimed.
Speaking of which, could we get a vote count?
cause I don't have a very good idea of where things stand right now.
Vote count for ADK says 4 but lists 5 people voting.thank you
Ask, and ye shall receive:;D
Hm. This reads really towny. It's also fairly variable, and we can vote on him stumping himself later.I think we should ask BA to stump himself tomorrow or the day after if he hasn't died by then. At worst, we'll get an IC who can't vote. I bet people other than me also are fine lynching Axxle through his claim, too, so no, the claims are not get-out-of-jail free cards.Okay, I guess a random vote isn't a good idea. I agree about ADK, so vote: ADK
Is the case on me just that I haven't had anyone suspicious of me yet? That's seems like a pretty weak argument when there are such heavy lurkers and scummy behavior from people like Ichi.
I also don't know why people are treating these weak-ass claims like they're "get-out-of-lynch-free" cards. BA's is totally unverifiable, Ichi's, Axxle, and S_P's are all available for scum, and if part of the point of claiming is to avoid lynching a powerful town role, besides S_P then we've essentially got three named VTs. Scum is going to lie when asked to claim, and all the claims we've had look to me like the things scum would come up with.
I have nothing against this. I'm ready to stump myself whenever the majority of players feel I should.
You've been 100% silent about my claim. Any reasons for voting me now?Hm. This reads really towny. It's also fairly variable, and we can vote on him stumping himself later.I think we should ask BA to stump himself tomorrow or the day after if he hasn't died by then. At worst, we'll get an IC who can't vote. I bet people other than me also are fine lynching Axxle through his claim, too, so no, the claims are not get-out-of-jail free cards.Okay, I guess a random vote isn't a good idea. I agree about ADK, so vote: ADK
Is the case on me just that I haven't had anyone suspicious of me yet? That's seems like a pretty weak argument when there are such heavy lurkers and scummy behavior from people like Ichi.
I also don't know why people are treating these weak-ass claims like they're "get-out-of-lynch-free" cards. BA's is totally unverifiable, Ichi's, Axxle, and S_P's are all available for scum, and if part of the point of claiming is to avoid lynching a powerful town role, besides S_P then we've essentially got three named VTs. Scum is going to lie when asked to claim, and all the claims we've had look to me like the things scum would come up with.
I have nothing against this. I'm ready to stump myself whenever the majority of players feel I should.
Vote: Ichimaru Gin
You claimed? Rereading....You've been 100% silent about my claim. Any reasons for voting me now?Hm. This reads really towny. It's also fairly variable, and we can vote on him stumping himself later.I think we should ask BA to stump himself tomorrow or the day after if he hasn't died by then. At worst, we'll get an IC who can't vote. I bet people other than me also are fine lynching Axxle through his claim, too, so no, the claims are not get-out-of-jail free cards.Okay, I guess a random vote isn't a good idea. I agree about ADK, so vote: ADK
Is the case on me just that I haven't had anyone suspicious of me yet? That's seems like a pretty weak argument when there are such heavy lurkers and scummy behavior from people like Ichi.
I also don't know why people are treating these weak-ass claims like they're "get-out-of-lynch-free" cards. BA's is totally unverifiable, Ichi's, Axxle, and S_P's are all available for scum, and if part of the point of claiming is to avoid lynching a powerful town role, besides S_P then we've essentially got three named VTs. Scum is going to lie when asked to claim, and all the claims we've had look to me like the things scum would come up with.
I have nothing against this. I'm ready to stump myself whenever the majority of players feel I should.
Vote: Ichimaru Gin
Just that you now find BA townier than before?
Speaking of which, could we get a vote count?
cause I don't have a very good idea of where things stand right now.
Yeah, reading through just now*, I'm worried I may have hammered.
*not that worried, probably would have wanted to lynch through his claim, but it also seems like he might not have anyway and his most recent post wasn't convincing. He said I defended/deflected from IG and that's not true, I wanted to lynch IG and then he claimed.
You would've hammered, but you already voted for ADK
Meanwhile, I have intent to hammer ADK. Claim?
You claimed? Rereading....You've been 100% silent about my claim. Any reasons for voting me now?Hm. This reads really towny. It's also fairly variable, and we can vote on him stumping himself later.I think we should ask BA to stump himself tomorrow or the day after if he hasn't died by then. At worst, we'll get an IC who can't vote. I bet people other than me also are fine lynching Axxle through his claim, too, so no, the claims are not get-out-of-jail free cards.Okay, I guess a random vote isn't a good idea. I agree about ADK, so vote: ADK
Is the case on me just that I haven't had anyone suspicious of me yet? That's seems like a pretty weak argument when there are such heavy lurkers and scummy behavior from people like Ichi.
I also don't know why people are treating these weak-ass claims like they're "get-out-of-lynch-free" cards. BA's is totally unverifiable, Ichi's, Axxle, and S_P's are all available for scum, and if part of the point of claiming is to avoid lynching a powerful town role, besides S_P then we've essentially got three named VTs. Scum is going to lie when asked to claim, and all the claims we've had look to me like the things scum would come up with.
I have nothing against this. I'm ready to stump myself whenever the majority of players feel I should.
Vote: Ichimaru Gin
Just that you now find BA townier than before?
Oh! Chapel! :-[ I have no idea why I missed that, sorry! I find it towny. Pretty safe fakeclaim, but sort of risky. I'm willing to take you off the table for now.
Vote: scott_pilgrim
Actually, right, EgorK has stated intent. Well, I think he should hammer whenever.
prod: this game
3 things:
SP, results please!
Do we want to massclaim? There's only 3 people left that haven't claimed yet.
SP's probably just werewolf here, right?
3 things:
SP, results please!
Do we want to massclaim? There's only 3 people left that haven't claimed yet.
SP's probably just werewolf here, right?
3 things:
SP, results please!
Do we want to massclaim? There's only 3 people left that haven't claimed yet.
SP's probably just werewolf here, right?
I watched Witherweaver but haven't gotten a PM from FTTW or mail-mi...I just PM'd them now asking if there was a mistake (I should at least get "no result" if the killer was a ninja or something right?).
3 things:
SP, results please!
Do we want to massclaim? There's only 3 people left that haven't claimed yet.
SP's probably just werewolf here, right?
I watched Witherweaver but haven't gotten a PM from FTTW or mail-mi...I just PM'd them now asking if there was a mistake (I should at least get "no result" if the killer was a ninja or something right?).
From the looks of things, it seems like they all killed each other, I think.
Anyway, the person I am most curious about is Archetype. His actions prior to lynching ADK seemed a bit weird to me. I mean, maybe, he was just glazing over all the comments. I mean, he did come into the game late, but I did find his voting odd.Do you think I'm ADK's partner?
PPE
Anyway, the person I am most curious about is Archetype. His actions prior to lynching ADK seemed a bit weird to me. I mean, maybe, he was just glazing over all the comments. I mean, he did come into the game late, but I did find his voting odd.I agree.
PPE
Okay just got a PM, EgorK and XerxesPraelor targeted Witherweaver last night.
Anyway, the person I am most curious about is Archetype. His actions prior to lynching ADK seemed a bit weird to me. I mean, maybe, he was just glazing over all the comments. I mean, he did come into the game late, but I did find his voting odd.Do you think I'm ADK's partner?
PPE
I'm fine with mass claiming. Also, if Scott did watch WW, it's very likely he's a WW (man, that's confusing to write).
PPE: 2
Okay just got a PM, EgorK and XerxesPraelor targeted Witherweaver last night.
Seems plausible. I did have EgorK on my scum radar for sometime. And, brought up his lurkiness on a few occasions.
I found EgorK pretty scummy. However, I am mistrustful of S_P's results. I feel like either Axxle or S_P is scum, probably not both. Axxle has participated quite a bit more, and Voltaire was definitely going to lynch him, so I think we can be sure he's not an Alien at least. However, it's possible (maybe likely) that Voltaire was the only Alien anyway. I think it'd be worth going back and looking at the wagons that were really close to going through and see where these new flips stood.Okay just got a PM, EgorK and XerxesPraelor targeted Witherweaver last night.
Seems plausible. I did have EgorK on my scum radar for sometime. And, brought up his lurkiness on a few occasions.
And ditto for Xerxes. I found him a bit scummy at times. So, are these two a team?
vote: ArchetypeWhat? No. Scum is absolutely within SP, EgorK, XP because of SP's results.
I feel confident that he is scum.
What I mean to say is that Archetype *might* be scum, but there's definitely scum between those three and that's where we should lynch.vote: ArchetypeWhat? No. Scum is absolutely within SP, EgorK, XP because of SP's results.
I feel confident that he is scum.
But how do we know S_P isn't lying?vote: ArchetypeWhat? No. Scum is absolutely within SP, EgorK, XP because of SP's results.
I feel confident that he is scum.
werewolf watcherwww.?
Bolded for clarification.But how do we know S_P isn't lying?vote: ArchetypeWhat? No. Scum is absolutely within SP, EgorK, XP because of SP's results.
I feel confident that he is scum.
Coincidence?
I did miss that originally. However, if S_P is scum and lying, than Archetype is much more likely scum. So it seems like you're assuming S_P to be town in order to defend Archetype here.Bolded for clarification.But how do we know S_P isn't lying?vote: ArchetypeWhat? No. Scum is absolutely within SP, EgorK, XP because of SP's results.
I feel confident that he is scum.
And how is SP being scum have an effect on what you think Archetype's alignment is?If S_P is lying, than it likely means that he is a werewolf. Furthermore, him being scum means that someone else isn't scum. Him lying about EgorK and XP means that they are more likely town (though of course they could always be mafia or aliens). To me, this would indicate more strongly that Archetype is scum.
Actually I really really doubt SP is lying here. There's very little point. I think that SP is telling the truth, may or may not be WW (I'm leaning toward yes), and has caught a different scum in Egor and XP.And how is SP being scum have an effect on what you think Archetype's alignment is?If S_P is lying, than it likely means that he is a werewolf. Furthermore, him being scum means that someone else isn't scum. Him lying about EgorK and XP means that they are more likely town (though of course they could always be mafia or aliens). To me, this would indicate more strongly that Archetype is scum.
So, I do have a question. So, if you are partners, does that mean you both kill as a pair? So, one NK per set of partners, correct?Hell of a game to pick as your first.
Anyway, I agree with Axxle. XP should claim and then EgorK. Although, if XP ends up being scum it is very likely that EgorK is also scum. It could also mean that Archetype is scum, in that case. Anyway, Archetype, XP, EgorK, and SP seem to be our likely suspects at this point. For all we know, all of them could be scum.
SP is most likely tracker as I targeted WW during night. On the other hand I suspect he is werewolf trackerIt's watcher (similar but different).
Anyway, Vote: XP until his explanation
Although, now that I think about. I think it is unlikely all 4 are scum. It does take 4 lynch and 4 scum are dead. That would mean the game started with 8 scum which seems excessive to me. So, I think at least one of these players is innocent.
Anyway, I am going out for the evening and won't be back for a few hours. XP has come off scummy to me in the past, and I think based of SP's results, we should make one of the two claim, so I'm going to vote for XP. If XP is not scum then we know SP was lying, and we can lynch him instead.
Vote: XP
*Edge case: it's possible that they both targeted him with a friendly PR and a third person did a ninja-kill or something, but that's obviously a lot less likely.That's impossible in this situation since the only ninja is a werewolf.
Although, now that I think about. I think it is unlikely all 4 are scum. It does take 4 lynch and 4 scum are dead. That would mean the game started with 8 scum which seems excessive to me. So, I think at least one of these players is innocent.
Anyway, I am going out for the evening and won't be back for a few hours. XP has come off scummy to me in the past, and I think based of SP's results, we should make one of the two claim, so I'm going to vote for XP. If XP is not scum then we know SP was lying, and we can lynch him instead.
Vote: XP
Just to clarify, only one of the members of a team performs the night kill. It seems like you are under the impression that all members of the team do the kill, so if EgorK and XP were partners who killed WW, I would see that they both targeted him, but that's NOT the case; I would only see that one of them targeted him (whichever one chose to do the night kill). So one of them definitely* killed him, and the other one may have attempted to kill him from a different scum faction, or just targeted him with some other PR. The fact that they both targeted him doesn't make them more likely to be scum partners.
*Edge case: it's possible that they both targeted him with a friendly PR and a third person did a ninja-kill or something, but that's obviously a lot less likely.
I was just making a joke. Serial Killers do not have partners.Anyway, the person I am most curious about is Archetype. His actions prior to lynching ADK seemed a bit weird to me. I mean, maybe, he was just glazing over all the comments. I mean, he did come into the game late, but I did find his voting odd.Do you think I'm ADK's partner?
PPE
I'm fine with mass claiming. Also, if Scott did watch WW, it's very likely he's a WW (man, that's confusing to write).
PPE: 2
Do Serial Killers have partners? I think that was what ADK was.
Can we have nik say an order too? HahaAs long as he puts his partner first!
Yeah, it's too bad. Want me to vanilla cop someone who hasn't claimed to show I am one actually?
Anyway, let's lynch egorK, and when he flips scum, you'll know that I'm telling the truth.
I'm sure s_p is a watcher based on this, but watching your partner is what scum would do.
SP is most likely tracker as I targeted WW during night. On the other hand I suspect he is werewolf tracker
Anyway, Vote: XP until his explanation
Being a gravedigger is very different from actually targeting someone. This is obviously clumsy scum.
Will someone who isn't scum please comment?
Gravedigger does not target all people NKd. It is seen targeting the NK by trackers and watchers.
FWIW, BA really looks like egorK's partner to me from this.I really doubt anyone still alive are partners with each other.
Gravedigger shows up as targeting, it doesn't target.
SP is most likely tracker as I targeted WW during night. On the other hand I suspect he is werewolf tracker
Anyway, Vote: XP until his explanation
I meant before SP claimed to have targeted WW.SP is most likely tracker as I targeted WW during night. On the other hand I suspect he is werewolf tracker
Anyway, Vote: XP until his explanation
Here is EgorK's original quote. It does sound like he may have been lying. But, he could have also meant that he showed up as targeting and thought SP was a tracker because trackers and watchers see him as targeting kills. Although, I am a bit surprised EgorK missed the whole ordeal over SP being Watcher though.
I honestly don't know what to think.
SP is most likely tracker as I targeted WW during night. On the other hand I suspect he is werewolf tracker
Anyway, Vote: XP until his explanation
Here is EgorK's original quote. It does sound like he may have been lying. But, he could have also meant that he showed up as targeting and thought SP was a tracker because trackers and watchers see him as targeting kills. Although, I am a bit surprised EgorK missed the whole ordeal over SP being Watcher though.
I honestly don't know what to think.
BTW, 3 people died last night, so the situation where we both tried to NK is impossible.
Vote: EgorK
He didn't hint at it at all, and never even commented on SP's role. I think he's lying here. This is the same as claiming Miller after a Cop has a guilty on you.
I'm guessing the remaining scum is egorK, s_p, and BA. Egotistical is the most urgent one, because his death will clear me. vote: egorK
Actually that was probably the hammer...WHAT?!I'm guessing the remaining scum is egorK, s_p, and BA. Egotistical is the most urgent one, because his death will clear me. vote: egorK
Andrew missed XP's vote in the last votecount.
Andrew missed XP's vote in the last votecount.
Just checked this and you're right, that was the hammer.
Man, people should just never listen to me when I announce L-x...I think something like this almost happened in Adventure Time too.
tbf he didn't put the vote on a new line like people should
Luckily, that's not going to happen.
So, if EgorK comes up as town, what are the odds of us being able to still win this? I mean, we will know XP is scum, and we might still have one scum left, right? Maybe even more?We can figure that out after seeing the number of night kills, I think we still have a good chance of winning. I doubt there are more than 2 more scum.
Wait. So is EgorK for sure hammered?So, if EgorK comes up as town, what are the odds of us being able to still win this? I mean, we will know XP is scum, and we might still have one scum left, right? Maybe even more?We can figure that out after seeing the number of night kills, I think we still have a good chance of winning. I doubt there are more than 2 more scum.
I watched Axxle last night (for obvious reasons), Xerxes targeted him, let's please lynch Xerxes.I think we really have a chance at winning today. Axxle's flip makes me trust you more I think.
vote: XerxesPraelor
I watched Axxle last night (for obvious reasons), Xerxes targeted him, let's please lynch Xerxes.I think we really have a chance at winning today. Axxle's flip makes me trust you more I think.
vote: XerxesPraelor
Thankfully, my semi-derphammer on EgorK turned out for the best. I'm ready to vote for XP, but I think I'd like to hear from the others first.
What was your vanilla Cop result, XP?
I watched Axxle last night (for obvious reasons), Xerxes targeted him, let's please lynch Xerxes.
vote: XerxesPraelor
Anyway, I'm going to trust SP's results. If he is lying, we will know the next day, and we lynch him for what is hopefully the win, assuming he does not have partner.
So, Vote: XP
Anyway, I'm going to trust SP's results. If he is lying, we will know the next day, and we lynch him for what is hopefully the win, assuming he does not have partner.
So, Vote: XP
Ah. I'm not sure. It's between Archetype and XP in my mind. We had only one nightkill. Although that doesn't necessarily mean there's only one scum left I think. At any rate, if XP flips town, I think we can be fairly certain that Archetype is scum. So long as we're trusting S_P's results, then I think we can be sure that XP is scum though. Archetype asked him a good question, and I'd like to see his answer.
Yes. That would be the case, and my townread on you is strengthened.Anyway, I'm going to trust SP's results. If he is lying, we will know the next day, and we lynch him for what is hopefully the win, assuming he does not have partner.
So, Vote: XP
Ah. I'm not sure. It's between Archetype and XP in my mind. We had only one nightkill. Although that doesn't necessarily mean there's only one scum left I think. At any rate, if XP flips town, I think we can be fairly certain that Archetype is scum. So long as we're trusting S_P's results, then I think we can be sure that XP is scum though. Archetype asked him a good question, and I'd like to see his answer.
Hmm...Wouldn't it be the case though that if XP flips town that SP is scum since he gave us false information????
Boo, why did I die instead of sp is what town should have asked
Boo, why did I die instead of sp is what town should have asked
Woohoo!Boo, why did I die instead of sp is what town should have asked
Yeah; I mean you were an IC, and there was maybe a case that I was a likely lynch candidate, but you were an obvious NK choice so scum would have expected me to watch you, and then they're caught. So yeah, I think I was mostly saved by Beyond Awesome voting too soon. I think town was mostly working on the assumption that there was probably only one scum left, in which case there was no danger of a quickhammer if I was the other scum.
We were also thinking there was a good chance XP targeted Archetype last night (since he was the only one left who hadn't claimed), and then after XP claimed his result on Archetype, Archetype would claim the opposite, which would make XP look super bad. At that point XP would pretty much know me and Archetype were scum partners but we would have just needed one of BA/IG to vote XP for the win. But we managed to get that vote before XP even showed up anyway, so it all worked out.
I'm still too easily convinced by other people's arguments I think. I should have stuck to my guns (and guts) and gone after Archetype. Oh well, something to incorporate in the future. Next game, I'm going to be a lot more stubborn.No one said archetype wasn't scum, just that we had really obvious scum from sp's results
I think what really helped SP is that we relied on him too much. He made some good calculations and knew how to watch and after being correct about EgorK which unfortunately XP also targeted WW, it just made it seem likely SP was town and XP scum. It didn't help that I kept going back and forth thinking XP was scum. Although, I think part of this was because XP was convinced that I was scum. So, I guess we kind of got into this town against town thing believing each other to be scum.That's sort of the bad thing about multi scum faction games, just because someone pushes for a scum lynch, it doesn't necessarily make them Town. But it lets scum have some use for generally Town PRs, which is cool.
Oh, well, I have learned a lot of lessons this game.
Awesome job Scotty! You played that Watcher really well.
This game has taught me that WW is always scum.
I was 142% convinced Ichi was scum though. I guess I was really of there :(It's funny to see all of the qt stuff. Interesting because during the game, I thought you were only trying to paint me as opposed to having legitimate reads on me. I didn't have much to back up my reads other than hunches and stuff, but ironically, most of them were right--I just wish I stuck with them.
I was 142% convinced Ichi was scum though. I guess I was really of there :(It's funny to see all of the qt stuff. Interesting because during the game, I thought you were only trying to paint me as opposed to having legitimate reads on me. I didn't have much to back up my reads other than hunches and stuff, but ironically, most of them were right--I just wish I stuck with them.
I didn't give this game all of the attention it deserved though, especially towards the end. And I definitely played a little different on earlier days due to the large player pool.
Anyway, on a last note, I wanted to say I enjoyed my first Mafia game. Thanks to Mail-mi and Andrewis for modding. I really enjoyed this setup and think it made for an interesting dynamic. Obviously, this was my first game, so I would not know any better.
Just let me know when the next mafia sign-up is.
So what's the word on this counting as "normal"? I felt especially bad for Voltaire here, a 1-person scum kill without a full night kill is rough.
So what's the word on this counting as "normal"? I felt especially bad for Voltaire here, a 1-person scum kill without a full night kill is rough.
We've had this argument before, the last time Greater Idea mafia variants were run. This game counts, because Mafia IX and XVIII counted.
I'm not sure we should run this setup again as a "Normal" setup, however.
So what's the word on this counting as "normal"? I felt especially bad for Voltaire here, a 1-person scum kill without a full night kill is rough.
We've had this argument before, the last time Greater Idea mafia variants were run. This game counts, because Mafia IX and XVIII counted.
I'm not sure we should run this setup again as a "Normal" setup, however.
I would argue that this one is even more normal than cayvie's games as her games utilized "hidden" super strong power roles. This is a weird game, but it is fully open (if not perfectly balanced). I would be ok with running this again as a "normal" game, but only with the clarification before hand that it doesn't guarantee balance in a normal way and just not run it too often. Mostly because where else does this fit in our system. It isn't RMM. It isn't bastard. It is weird, but it is more or less normal.
I am interested in wondering what the first rolled setup looked like... must have been imbalanced?
I'm trying to do the stats for this game, looks to me like no MVP was announced? Could someone please confirm MVP for this game?