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Author Topic: How much would this cost?  (Read 10348 times)

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werothegreat

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2012, 12:44:30 pm »
+1

"It" refers to the other Diviner in play.
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eHalcyon

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2012, 12:48:53 pm »
0

"It" refers to the other Diviner in play.

That's what I thought.  But the way it is worded is just a little ambiguous and sounds like it could refer to the found card.  Trashing the Diviner you just played (i.e. "this") is functionally equivalent to trashing the other Diviner and it removes that ambiguity. :)
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2012, 12:50:51 pm »
0

You can also come up with some other trashing conditions:
"if the chosen card costs more than this, trash this" - This way you can use it a bunch of times, but only one time for a really good card
"when you discard this from play, if you bought a victory card this turn, trash this" - This way you can use it a bunch at the start to build up, but then can't use it in your engine in the greening phase.
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werothegreat

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2012, 12:51:25 pm »
+1

So it does.  With that change, I think this card should cost $4.  You can open with it, but why would you want to?  You can spam them, but that means they turn into one-shots.
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werothegreat

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2012, 12:53:30 pm »
+1

You can also come up with some other trashing conditions:
"if the chosen card costs more than this, trash this" - This way you can use it a bunch of times, but only one time for a really good card

Then it would have to cost $5.  And that would suck with Border Village as the only Village.  Maybe $6, then, but that would only exclude eight cards at that point.

"when you discard this from play, if you bought a victory card this turn, trash this" - This way you can use it a bunch at the start to build up, but then can't use it in your engine in the greening phase.

Could do that, but we've already seen that on Horn of Plenty.
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Schneau

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2012, 01:00:16 pm »
0

"It" refers to the other Diviner in play.

That's what I thought.  But the way it is worded is just a little ambiguous and sounds like it could refer to the found card.  Trashing the Diviner you just played (i.e. "this") is functionally equivalent to trashing the other Diviner and it removes that ambiguity. :)

F.DS Requisite Edge-Case: If you Procession a Diviner, the two cases are different: in one, you trash both Diviners, and in the other, you trash only one.
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eHalcyon

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2012, 01:17:22 pm »
0

"It" refers to the other Diviner in play.

That's what I thought.  But the way it is worded is just a little ambiguous and sounds like it could refer to the found card.  Trashing the Diviner you just played (i.e. "this") is functionally equivalent to trashing the other Diviner and it removes that ambiguity. :)

F.DS Requisite Edge-Case: If you Procession a Diviner, the two cases are different: in one, you trash both Diviners, and in the other, you trash only one.

Nice catch.  I considered TR but not Procession. :)

Still -- I think they are close enough to "functionally equivalent" that it's worth removing the slight ambiguity. :P
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rinkworks

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2012, 04:23:15 pm »
+1

Action - $?

Diviner

+1 Action

Name a card.  Reveal cards from you deck until you reveal a copy of it.  Put it in your hand.  Discard the other revealed cards.  If you have another Diviner in play, trash it.

The first Diviner is still as overpowered as it was before that revision and thus basically a must-buy at any non-stratospheric price.
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werothegreat

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2012, 04:35:11 pm »
+1

Action - $?

Diviner

+1 Action

Name a card.  Reveal cards from you deck until you reveal a copy of it.  Put it in your hand.  Discard the other revealed cards.  If you have another Diviner in play, trash it.

The first Diviner is still as overpowered as it was before that revision and thus basically a must-buy at any non-stratospheric price.

What if there weren't a +Action?
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2012, 04:39:13 pm »
0

"Name a card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal the named card. Set that card aside and discard the rest. You may play that card this turn. If you do, trash it. Otherwise, discard it during this turn's Clean-up."
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 04:40:45 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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eHalcyon

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2012, 05:24:17 pm »
0

"Name a card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal the named card. Set that card aside and discard the rest. You may play that card this turn. If you do, trash it. Otherwise, discard it during this turn's Clean-up."

Trashing the found card makes this super weak.  If you don't play the card and just discard it, then this was nothing but a partial Chancellor.
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Dsell

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2012, 10:07:09 pm »
0

"Name a card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal the named card. Set that card aside and discard the rest. You may play that card this turn. If you do, trash it. Otherwise, discard it during this turn's Clean-up."

Trashing the found card makes this super weak.  If you don't play the card and just discard it, then this was nothing but a partial Chancellor.

I actually think it could be ok, with a wording change. Just make it a golem that searches for the named card, plays it, and trashes it. I actually think that would be pretty interesting.
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eHalcyon

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2012, 10:16:42 pm »
0

"Name a card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal the named card. Set that card aside and discard the rest. You may play that card this turn. If you do, trash it. Otherwise, discard it during this turn's Clean-up."

Trashing the found card makes this super weak.  If you don't play the card and just discard it, then this was nothing but a partial Chancellor.

I actually think it could be ok, with a wording change. Just make it a golem that searches for the named card, plays it, and trashes it. I actually think that would be pretty interesting.

Really?  Procession at least gives you something after you trash the action.  Finding a card to play it sooner but never again seems like a bad tradeoff to me.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2012, 10:34:18 pm »
0

"Name a card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal the named card. Set that card aside and discard the rest. You may play that card this turn. If you do, trash it. Otherwise, discard it during this turn's Clean-up."

Trashing the found card makes this super weak.  If you don't play the card and just discard it, then this was nothing but a partial Chancellor.

It either sets up good combos when you really need to or works as light trashing. That doesn't seem that weak to me at the right cost.

I actually think it could be ok, with a wording change. Just make it a golem that searches for the named card, plays it, and trashes it. I actually think that would be pretty interesting.

Just playing the card makes it awkward with Treasure and Victory cards, thus the set aside mechanic.

eHalcyon

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2012, 10:35:21 pm »
0

Whoooops.  Use it as a trasher, right.  That does make it OK.  But it fills an entirely different niche than the previous concept. :P
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werothegreat

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2012, 12:44:06 am »
+2

Whoooops.  Use it as a trasher, right.  That does make it OK.  But it fills an entirely different niche than the previous concept. :P

Yeah.  You guys, in trying to make the card playable, have totally veered away from the original intent.  Please get out of the ditch and get my car back on the highway.  I can see the interstate from here.
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DStu

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2012, 02:02:15 am »
0

"Name a card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal the named card. Set that card aside and discard the rest. You may play that card this turn. If you do, trash it. Otherwise, discard it during this turn's Clean-up."
To get this to a bit less text: Why would you want to name a card and not play and trash it? Of course, you could say name "Province" and lower the chance that it will come up in the next hand, but as we have all discussed this has only a minor effect, so I don't think it is worth a "You may", "If you do" and "Otherwise, ..." on the card.
And with this wording, you can't trash Estates with it, because you can't play them. If you are forced to play it, and without the "if you do", you could.

I think target trashing of Estates, and trashing of Coppers for terminal +$1 is not the worst card, +the cycling it has, is not the worst card. I wouldn't costs this at $4, because you don't want to spam this anyway. So the question is $5 or $3?.

In it's current form, ignoring combos with DarkAge, I don't see much use.  Terminal trashing of Copper (at least this is not from hand)  with a $1 bonus seems about the range of Moneylender, but I think it's weaker. It will work longer then ML, as it finds all the Coppers, but it gives $1 less when played, which is a big deal I think. When you trash Coppers, you need to build another source of money, otherwise these Estates you can't trash will kill you.  Moneylender has a good chance of bring you to Gold, or at least a power $5, while with $1 less this doesn't look so great, and will often result in Silver.
Trashing of something else will very rarely occure. You can't trash Curses, you don't get a real benefit from trashin other than playing the card one last time (but if that would be important, why do you want to trash it?).
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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2012, 02:06:19 am »
0

"It" refers to the other Diviner in play.

That's what I thought.  But the way it is worded is just a little ambiguous and sounds like it could refer to the found card.  Trashing the Diviner you just played (i.e. "this") is functionally equivalent to trashing the other Diviner and it removes that ambiguity. :)

F.DS Requisite Edge-Case: If you Procession a Diviner, the two cases are different: in one, you trash both Diviners, and in the other, you trash only one.

They're also different if one of them happens to be a Band of Misfits in disguise.
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Morgrim7

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Re: How much would this cost?
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2012, 07:16:42 am »
0

Oh lord this is swingy. Depending on which cards are in the kingdom, this card could be phenomenal or mediocre. This is crazy.   
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