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[MiX]

vote: Dylan

sounds about right

i think yuma's the last

Raptor/yuma makes the most sense so far. Why Dylan?

[LaLight]

vote: Dylan

sounds about right

i think yuma's the last

Raptor/yuma makes the most sense so far. Why Dylan?

there is no point for raptor claiming doctor unless he is a doctor. why force 1v1?

yuma just for his play

[scolapasta]

Does anyone disagree that today should be either dylan or raptor and if we're wrong tomorrow is the other one?

I prefer raptor today, but am ok with either so if Dylan gets to L-1, I'll switch.

[MiX]

vote: Dylan

sounds about right

i think yuma's the last

Raptor/yuma makes the most sense so far. Why Dylan?

there is no point for raptor claiming doctor unless he is a doctor. why force 1v1?

yuma just for his play

There's no point for Dylan to claim cop unless he is a cop. Why force 1v1?

Also, raptor has around 3 misplays already: not hammering, not doctoring anyone knowing he was going to counterclaim Dylan today, and not voting Dylan when claiming. Whereas Dylan made a case and voted Joseph, contributing a lot to Joseph's lynch.

Does anyone disagree that today should be either dylan or raptor and if we're wrong tomorrow is the other one?

I prefer raptor today, but am ok with either so if Dylan gets to L-1, I'll switch.

I hope not.

[yuma]

vote: MIX

[MiX]

vote: MIX

Did you forget about what we were doing today? I can be caught scum and you still lynch in the direct conflict first.

[Swowl]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

They killed shraeye! They're obviously not afraid of a doctor. Killing shraeye, knowing there couldn't be any cop, was either to kill a 1-shot cop or just because why not. No scum on their right mind kills Dylan, they would kill you or some random, never the PR claim, since you can win the 1v1.

I don't understand why this is even a question, raptor is also objectively scummier than Dylan, and there's no reason for dylan to do this while raptor has nothing to lose by claiming.

I strongly disagree. and it is a question not to create a comparison between the players.

Shraeye claimed cop. Skum shot shraeye.
Dylan claimed cop... And skum chose NOT to shoot Dylan or ME. Only reason for that is because they are worried there could be a doctor. How would they think that is true? If Dylan is skum.

I guess my point was with the question, that I find it strange they did not catch onto the Shraeye claim being a draw kill because they were worried it could be true.
They chose their kill target last night, because they were worried about something.

I haven't eaten today yet I can probably explain that better later, but I think it is actually an extremely solid point.

[Swowl]

vote: Dylan

sounds about right

i think yuma's the last

Raptor/yuma makes the most sense so far. Why Dylan?

there is no point for raptor claiming doctor unless he is a doctor. why force 1v1?

Correct. This. Yes.

[yuma]

vote: MIX

Did you forget about what we were doing today? I can be caught scum and you still lynch in the direct conflict first.

Nope. Didn't forget. We can still accomplish what we want with or without my vote right now.

Funny thing about votes is that they can move around.

[scolapasta]

RE: raptor claiming doctor, wouldn't the point be for us to lynch dylan first, getting an extra VT kill?

Similarly, not killing Dylan so that aspect could be raised as suspect and again steering us away from raptor for one more day?

I mean Dylan isn't a threat to them anymore. So they could kill him and then we'd lynch raptor.

Or they could leave him alive and cause us to doubt and possibly mislynch.

[MiX]

I will just say, WIFOM, and there's no reason to vote Dylan over Raptor. Let's assume neither one had claimed. Do you think Dylan would be a consideration for today? Maybe, but not as much as he is right now. Raptor's claim makes us have to 50/50, which is MUCH better than the odds he had of living this day. And, again, for hopefully the last time, Raptor has played a pro-Joseph pro-scum game, whereas Dylan has played an anti-Joseph game. I'm never willing to move to Dylan, not before Raptor. I obviously can't see your points with objectivity, Swan, so I'm not going to bother with arguing with them. It's just, everything you say I can point to Dylan and it makes even less sense if he's scum.

Tell me if you want me to try to argue against each and every individual point you have versus Dylan, it's going to take a while and I'm not sure it's worth it.

vote: MIX

Did you forget about what we were doing today? I can be caught scum and you still lynch in the direct conflict first.

Nope. Didn't forget. We can still accomplish what we want with or without my vote right now.

Funny thing about votes is that they can move around.

If you're voting without wanting me lynched then your vote will lose power. Just say "you're scum" or "FoS: MiX", no reason to hinder your wagon while making a point.

PPE: My thoughts exactly.

[scolapasta]

In summary, it seemed extremely likely that after lynching Joseph, we'd go after Raptor. So anything scum can do to delay that a day seems a worthy gambit.

Not NKing Dylan and Raptor claiming 1-shot doctor both fit that gambit.

[scolapasta]

Oh, and I've changed my mind about switching to Dylan if he gets to L-1. At least, not automatically.

I'm not saying it might not be Dylan. But Raptor, then Dylan makes so much more sense than Dylan then Raptor.

[yuma]

I use votes differently than most people. Doesn't mean it loses its power.

[MiX]

I use votes differently than most people. Doesn't mean it loses its power.

Your vote is better off deciding which of Dylan/Raptor is lynched than on me to make a point. Unless this was a covert way of unvoting, in which case I have no idea why you would hide that read, it doesn't matter for scum.

[yuma]

I use votes differently than most people. Doesn't mean it loses its power.

Your vote is better off deciding which of Dylan/Raptor is lynched than on me to make a point. Unless this was a covert way of unvoting, in which case I have no idea why you would hide that read, it doesn't matter for scum.

My vote can still decide that. Once I feel like I want it to decide that. I am not just making a point.

[yuma]

Also I would vastly prefer to hear from ashersky before we end the day.

[Dylan32]

@Datswan, shraeye claimed cop D1, and was killed because scum believed him to be a 1-shot cop knowing that there was a very strong chance of either a 1-shot cop or doc.  I claimed 1-shot cop and peg Joseph as scum, scum knows I already used my shot and CAN'T be a full cop because they are goon, goon, GF, so there's no reason for them TO kill me.

[Dylan32]

As for why raptor claims, he was the obvious next lynch, and either:
A) he didn't understand the setup to realize any claim would be a counterclaim on me and made a mistake (hence not voting for me when he claimed)
or
B) he knew it was a counterclaim and figured he'd have a better chance of surviving another day by forcing a 1v1 than by just trying to fake a case on someone else or relying on his partner to push somewhere else (which would make it easier to find the 3rd scum if he was the lynch)

[Dylan32]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

They killed shraeye! They're obviously not afraid of a doctor. Killing shraeye, knowing there couldn't be any cop, was either to kill a 1-shot cop or just because why not. No scum on their right mind kills Dylan, they would kill you or some random, never the PR claim, since you can win the 1v1.

I don't understand why this is even a question, raptor is also objectively scummier than Dylan, and there's no reason for dylan to do this while raptor has nothing to lose by claiming.

I strongly disagree. and it is a question not to create a comparison between the players.

Shraeye claimed cop. Skum shot shraeye.
Dylan claimed cop... And skum chose NOT to shoot Dylan or ME. Only reason for that is because they are worried there could be a doctor. How would they think that is true? If Dylan is skum.

I guess my point was with the question, that I find it strange they did not catch onto the Shraeye claim being a draw kill because they were worried it could be true.
They chose their kill target last night, because they were worried about something.

I haven't eaten today yet I can probably explain that better later, but I think it is actually an extremely solid point.

Or, and this is just as plausible as their "worried about a doc" theory, they were simply more worried about a town!faust than town!DatSwan.

[Dylan32]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

They killed shraeye! They're obviously not afraid of a doctor. Killing shraeye, knowing there couldn't be any cop, was either to kill a 1-shot cop or just because why not. No scum on their right mind kills Dylan, they would kill you or some random, never the PR claim, since you can win the 1v1.

I don't understand why this is even a question, raptor is also objectively scummier than Dylan, and there's no reason for dylan to do this while raptor has nothing to lose by claiming.

I strongly disagree. and it is a question not to create a comparison between the players.

Shraeye claimed cop. Skum shot shraeye.
Dylan claimed cop... And skum chose NOT to shoot Dylan or ME. Only reason for that is because they are worried there could be a doctor. How would they think that is true? If Dylan is skum.

I guess my point was with the question, that I find it strange they did not catch onto the Shraeye claim being a draw kill because they were worried it could be true.
They chose their kill target last night, because they were worried about something.

I haven't eaten today yet I can probably explain that better later, but I think it is actually an extremely solid point.

Or, and this is just as plausible as their "worried about a doc" theory, they were simply more worried about a town!faust than town!DatSwan.

And why wouldn't they be afraid of you? Because based on your "I don't believe Dylan's claim" yesterday, they knew they could count on you to push away from scum!raptor's lynch and onto a mislynch. And that's assuming you aren't actually just scum that played a great D1.

[Swowl]

@Datswan, shraeye claimed cop D1, and was killed because scum believed him to be a 1-shot cop knowing that there was a very strong chance of either a 1-shot cop or doc.  I claimed 1-shot cop and peg Joseph as scum, scum knows I already used my shot and CAN'T be a full cop because they are goon, goon, GF, so there's no reason for them TO kill me.

the bolded part is why I am suspicious of you

[Swowl]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

They killed shraeye! They're obviously not afraid of a doctor. Killing shraeye, knowing there couldn't be any cop, was either to kill a 1-shot cop or just because why not. No scum on their right mind kills Dylan, they would kill you or some random, never the PR claim, since you can win the 1v1.

I don't understand why this is even a question, raptor is also objectively scummier than Dylan, and there's no reason for dylan to do this while raptor has nothing to lose by claiming.

I strongly disagree. and it is a question not to create a comparison between the players.

Shraeye claimed cop. Skum shot shraeye.
Dylan claimed cop... And skum chose NOT to shoot Dylan or ME. Only reason for that is because they are worried there could be a doctor. How would they think that is true? If Dylan is skum.

I guess my point was with the question, that I find it strange they did not catch onto the Shraeye claim being a draw kill because they were worried it could be true.
They chose their kill target last night, because they were worried about something.

I haven't eaten today yet I can probably explain that better later, but I think it is actually an extremely solid point.

Or, and this is just as plausible as their "worried about a doc" theory, they were simply more worried about a town!faust than town!DatSwan.

And why wouldn't they be afraid of you? Because based on your "I don't believe Dylan's claim" yesterday, they knew they could count on you to push away from scum!raptor's lynch and onto a mislynch. And that's assuming you aren't actually just scum that played a great D1.

The only thing I said for the entirty of Day 2, after you had claimed, was this:

Hammered yes?

I did not bring forth my "Dylan could be lying" theory until today... Day 3. So they certainly did not go to night planning to have me help push away from Raptor. If anything, the last things I said about Raptor would suggest I would be gunning for Raptor today.

[Swowl]

Dylan - What was your read on Joseph before you got your result back?

[Swowl]

also people go ahead and weigh in on this theory please...

Raptor claim to NOT of used his shot.
There is a UB in the game.
That essentially makes Raptor the "safe lynch" in the world where we lynch one today and find skum tomorrow if we are wrong.

This is to say, it invites the obvious concept of lynching raptor... UB gets 1 shot doc ... They use it on whoever they like or not whatever... but skum has no idea who has it.
I believe that skum in this spot would claimed to of used the shot on (just saying) myself last night and they do not have a shot left, giving us less incentive to lynch them today.