Okay, here are answers to the several posts that raised questions about me since last I posted.
From
Dsell:You are good at choosing a target--I believe you chose me in post #304, long before I did any of the things you found suspicious, except for not posting enough--and then building a case against him. The thing is, you've been so direct with it, I'm a little baffled. I would expect the mafia not to show so much decisiveness in leading the charge against somebody. However, I would also not expect a town member to lead a decisive charge against a veteran who is one of the town's most helpful players (indeed, you have some evidence of my helpfulness at this point--look at Mafia I, where as the Jailkeeper, I was largely responsible for the deduction that got the town to lynch Axxle, the final mafia).
You are right and you are wrong. In post #304, I chose you intentionally, but I did not assume you were mafia at that point and did NOT have in mind to frame you as mafia. As town, that is pure stupidity without real evidence. But I only made that post because of Jotheonah's prompting. I thought his way of sparking discussion was a good idea so I figured I would play along, so I aired my very mild suspicion of you. The main reason I did it though, was to try to shake you up like you so often do in other games...it's a strategy I like. I wanted to poke and prod to see what kind of reaction you would give, because hey, it usually ends up being helpful information. And for me, it was! You reacted in what I perceive to be a fairly mafia way: not responding at first, making an insubstantial post as well as a more substantial one in which you laid out your perceptions (which included some veiled suspicion cast on myself and eevee) while not really giving us all that much to go on.
I don't think that's a mafia-ish way to respond. I think a mafia-ish way to respond would be to launch into an essay on why I was not actually suspicious. Because I have nothing to hide, I didn't care to respond to every little needling of me. That might be hypocritical--I'm needling people, and looking for their responses--but I don't care. My idea this round was to say less than usual, because I'm one of the louder players and a two-game veteran, and I didn't want to dominate the conversation, specifically because there were so many new voices. I was looking to stir the pot and not really say much about myself. Of course you have had other designs for me, so now I must defend myself in extended fashion.
So, no, when I first cast suspicion on you, it was very mild suspicion because you didn't seem to play quite the same way as in the other games. All of your subsequent responses, however, have made you look more and more like mafia.
I try to switch up my play in every game, but I think it's fair to say that my play so far in this game is much more similar to
Mafia I, where I was the Jailkeeper than in
Mafia II, where I was the Mafia Rolecop. My analysis of my own play is that I tend to filter my comments much less when I am a townie. Let me explain: in Mafia II, I would write a whole post and then delete it before posting it. I did this probably a dozen times. I was being so careful about what I said. Every word was danger. I didn't do that at all in Mafia I, and I haven't done that in Mafia III. Not being more careful about what I say has brought a lot of suspicion on me, I see that now, but if I were the mafia I would have been more careful. Since I am not the mafia, I have not been careful.
The thing that keeps getting me is that you're right. You WERE so helpful in Mafia I, even beyond being randomly assigned jailkeeper. You aggressively went after who you perceived to be mafia (even if you were wrong the first couple times) and were a shining champion for the town. You were very helpful. But in this game, you haven't seemed very pro-town at all. You aren't exactly anti-town, more like just there. Unhelpful. Contributing, but not much. Maybe it's only that it's day 1 and you haven't had much to go on but like we are all realizing we HAVE to vote soon. And still you are unsure. The only thing that is certain is that you're gonna be a nice guy and not vote Morgrim.
Well, I was helpful in Mafia I in the following ways: I thought the bandwagon against theory was very wrong (and I was correct), and I figured out who the other mafia was going into the last round, blocking his kill. But I was wrong about TINAS in rounds 1 and 2. I have not yet formed strong suspicions, so I was sitting back, and needling. I actively went after Morgrim in game 2, remember, because I was the mafia.
There are more players in this game, and two of them stand out as crazy: O and Morgrim. Going after the crazy people has not yet yielded a mafia kill in the first round. Therefore, I do not think Morgrim is the mafia. O's "kill myself" thing has greater potential to be some sort of higher strategy, in my view, than Morgrim's craziness. Which is why I am still suspicious of O. But, like, just a little bit.
I think this vote is unlikely to kill a mafia member no matter what. But I think the town does worse than random by killing me, Jotheonah, Galzria, or Voltgloss, in absence of extreme suspicion.
"I think this vote is unlikely to kill a mafia member no matter what." But we would be so foolish not to try! Saying, "the town has no real chance of hitting mafia anyway so protect me!!" is the kind of just really unhelpful thing that seems so uncharacteristic of Town Robz. I would be very sad if an experienced town or certainly a town role were lynched, but you haven't done much this game to persuade me that we really really need you around.
I still think we are unlikely to kill a mafia member this round. The other 2 games failed to do so: in this game, it will be harder. I didn't say we shouldn't try. And I do think I am worth protecting. I will be valuable to the town next round. If you don't think you need me, it hurts my feelings I suppose. Perhaps the town would be better off without you, though, since you are barking up the wrong tree!
But you seem to have extreme suspicions of me for... playing the way I told you the mafia would play? But then if you think I am mafia, why wouldn't you think I would lie to you about how the mafia would play?
You really can't lie about the way that mafia play because you've said similar things in the other games. Lying about that would be more incriminating than...well, hanging around in the background, like you were trying to do.
If I turn out to be wrong and lead your lynch and you turn out to be a townie, that would be very unfortunate. And I would expect a lot of suspicion to be cast on me, rightly so. But I trust that my posts thus far and future posts will be clear, well-reasoned, and show my support for the town.
Well, I really, really don't like you trying to weasel out of your responsibility for this, because you are wrong. To be honest,
you are playing like me in Mafia II, and I am your round one Morgrim.
Next,
Volt:
And I am also hoping you can answer a couple of questions below, regarding this comment you made in #338 when responding to Dsell's suspicions voiced in #304 (after his request you do so in #325):
And... you are near the top on my list of suspicions, as you seem to have guessed. Your posts nicely fit the model I outlined, with a mix of serious and then taking-it-back plus humor and emoticons. Frequent but not too frequent.
- Why did you think Dsell "seem[ed] to have guessed" that you suspected him?
I phrased it that way to be sort of a purposefully nasty retort to him, to see what he would do. It doesn't make much sense in any context. He suspected me before I suspected him. And I didn't even particularly suspect him until his most recent statements. I wanted to see how he would react.
- Which posts of Dsell's fit the model you outlined in #324?
Here is one:
What's this?! We were having a perfectly lovely conversation about avatars and begging for twigs, and now people are suddenly calling for a hanging?? What a mad world we live in!
Seriously though, I'm glad to see more substantive posts! I do hope we can hear a little more from the quieter ones, and it doesn't seem to me like throwing a couple votes out early is putting us in too much danger of an early hammer. It seems like a terribly obvious mafia move to throw 2 or 3 bandwagon votes on a person in the first round to bring the hammer down. Nobody wants to actually lynch right now, we just want strong reactions. And strong reactions are good because a mafia player might be more likely to slip if they have to really defend themselves.
The mafia face an early game dilemma. What to say? They have to say SOMETHING. It can't be total nonsense or overly serious, so they say something like this. Note: This is how I would expect a new player who is the mafia to post. It's not how I would expect Voltgloss, if he were mafia, to post.
- You say Dsell was "near the top" of your suspicions list. That suggests he was not AT the top. Who was? Are they still there? If not, what has changed?
The amount of suspicion separating the person I most suspect (Dsell, now), from the person I least suspect (Morgrim) is not big. I would not vote this weekend if we didn't have the deadline approaching. And by the way, I didn't notice the deadline until yesterday. Before, Dsell was just one of a couple new players who I could see being mafia, with Eevee, Captain Frisk, michaeljb, etc. His campaign against me did not start to make me suspect him until this most recent post of his, where he's already trying to wash his hands of mislynching me.
Robz, I trust you won't take this inquiry personally. I do agree that, if you are Town, you're a great asset to the Town. The flip side of that is, if you are Mafia (or SK), you could be the Town's worst nightmare. So I'm hoping your responses allay my concerns, because I really don't like the alternative.
I
am taking it personally within the context of the game of Mafia, where I think I am both very useful and not very suspicious. I'm not, like,
real-life taking it personally, of course not. And I certainly used and abused your trust in Mafia II, so on one hand I sort of understand
your suspicion, but not really other people's at this point.
Next,
Jotheonah:
Ok, I've been looking back at Robz's posts. I am going to agree with a lot of what has been said.
I'll add that twice now (first in his "Stalwarts" section and later in his defense) he's tried to lump me, Galz, Volt, and him together as a core group of Day 1 unlynchables. I think he's hoping we'll come to his defense, and to somehow tie himself to whatever pro-town sentiment the rest of us has. As "O" has repeatedly pointed out, our status as helpful townies is very much in question given the disastrous outcome of our game. So the "don't lynch these helpful townies" angle rings hollow. Excluding a large group of people from your suspect pool off the bat for largely irrelevant reasons is anti-Town. With Volt, I await your responses.
"Tried to lump... together as a core group of Day 1 unlynchables" is exactly what I was doing. If one of you were giving me a strong mafia read, I would obviously not do that. But since I don't have particular reasons to suspect you more than others, I would rather keep all of you around. I know how you play, and will be better able to evaluate you next round then I will eHalycon or Eevee or yuma. And that's a good thing for me and for the town. And in fact I MUST "exclude a large group of people from your suspect pool," because there are so many people. Excluding large groups of people on the slimmest of reasons is unfortunately a necessary feature of round 1. I mean, come on, nobody has particularly good reasons for anything round 1. In the other two games, three people--theory, TINAS, and Morgrim--faced round 1 lynch wagons, and none were mafia. Doesn't that tell you something?