Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: yuma on December 24, 2015, 09:09:53 am
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Mafia 74: X-Shots 2: Apocalypse Now!
Mods: yuma
This is a normal, open, 13- player mafia game. The setup is invented and has been titled, X-Shots. It is based on a closed version run a year ago (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10674.0). This open setup is slightly modified from that closed version. See setup details in the next post.
This game will not start until after the start of the new year regardless of how quickly it fills up.
Players:
1. WW
2. EgorK
3. gkrieg
4. roadrunner
5. silverspawn
6. awaclus
7. ashersky
8. hydrad
9. ADK
10. faust
11. Teproc
12. EFHW
13. Xerxes
tagged:
f.ds Mafia Ruleset
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for this game. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play here.
Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.
General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable, check with the mod if you need clarifications.
2. Personal communication outside of the forum postings is NOT ALLOWED unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
3. If you have a role with a Night action, your choices are due to all mods by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start during the first few Nights; later Nights may have shorter deadlines). If we do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used. Generally, one team member may submit the Night Actions for all team members. See rule 7 under miscellaneous below if you anticipate being VLA while having a PR.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage), unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mods know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase, unless your Action is compulsory.
6. As a general rule you should aim for more than one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving. Please treat this game as a commitment. If you can't commit to this game because of outside activities/responsibilities, other forum games or other contributing factors please /out before the start of the game.
Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics, except for twilight. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent, but will be invited to the Spectator Quicktopic.
8. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
9. This game will have 7 day deadlines and 2 days nights.
10. Lynch rules vary by the number of players alive. With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. Ties are broken by coin flip. With nine or less players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.
11. Rule Update: Players must have avatars that are unique to themselves. If multiple players have the same avatar and neither are willing to change they will both be mod killed.
Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, brown text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mods privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game. In the event of an incorrect vote count the mod has the right to revert the game state back to the state before the erroneous vote count. This means that any votes cast in the meantime will become void. Any time that was lost during this even will be added back onto for deadlines. Please note that if a mistake is not caught before a flip, the erroneous vote count will become binding.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 24 hours of no activity (VLA posts in the official VLA thread negate automatic prods). A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill, or beyond.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. If you have a Power Role and go on VLA for longer than 2 days (the time period of a Night) please submit a temporary Night Action before leaving on VLA. This will be a placeholder action in the event that you will be absent during the night. Failure to submit an action before leaving will result in a "no action" that night.
8. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread. A request to /out must only be done via a PM to the moderator. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique. (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed.
9. All players will be given a personal QT to post thoughts, ideas in throughout the game. Scum can use these to pretend to be town. Night actions may be submitted to the mod, as may mod questions. Content from QTs may be posted within the thread verbatim, but not linked. Any interaction with the mod (asking questions, receiving answers, friendly banter, or any other content that deals with the mod or references the mod should not be posted. If you aren't sure, ask).
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Welcome to X-SHOTS. An open 13-player setup created by yuma. In X-SHOTS both town and non-town will be given an X amount of PRs with an X amount of shots. Shots will be cumulative for the entire faction to use. Town will not be informed at any time of how many shots they start with as a whole, how many shots remain or if a specific shot was successful unless it yields a PM-able result. Mafia will not be informed of how many shots they bring into the game for the whole of mafia to use.
The following are possible roles and the number of shots that each role brings into the game.
1- Cop (1 shot) (Investigative)
2- Vig (2 shot) (Killing)
3- JK (2 shots) (Blocking)
4- Roleblocker (3 shots) (Blocking)
5- Watcher (3 shots) (Investigative)
6- Bodyguard (3 shots) (Protective)
7- Doc (3 shots) (Protective)
8- Tracker (4 shots) (Investigative)
9- Rolecop (4 shots) (Investigative)
10- Shot Changer (2 shots) (Shot)
The following rules will determine how roles are used and assigned.
1. Four randomized rolls (1-10) will be performed. The number that corresponds with the number will result in that role being used. There can be replicates of any role of any number.
2. If the first three roles are all 1, 2, or 3s (Cop, Vig, JK) then the town will only receive 3 PRs with an additional 2 shots added.
Example1: Role: 2, 1, 3 = Vig (2), Cop (1), JK (2) + 2 shots for a total of 7 shots.
3. If town, in the first three rolls, receives a duplicate of 1, 2 or 3 (Cop, Vig, JK) then the town will only receive 3 PRs with an additional 2 shots added.
Example2: 2, 2, 5 = Vig (2), Vig (2), Watcher (3) + 2 shots for a total of 9 shots.
4. If the fourth role causes there to be a duplicate of a 1, 2 or 3 then it will be added as a role, but bring in zero additional shots.
Example3: 2, 7, 8, 2 = Vig (2), Doc (3), Tracker (4), Vig (0) = 9 shots
5. If town receives no 1, 2 or 3s (Cop, Vig, JK) in its first four rolls then the town will receive an extra fifth roll. However, this additional roll will bring in zero additional shots for town. If a 1, 2, or 3 is rolled for the fifth shot, 2 shots will be removed from the town total.
Example4: Role: 6, 4, 4, 10 extra roll is 9 = BG (3), RB (3), RB (3), Shot Changer (2) + extra roll: 9 = Rolecop (0) for a total of 11 shots.
Example5: Role: 4, 6, 5, 10 extra roll is 2 = RB (3), BG (3), Watcher (3), Shot Changer (2) + extra roll: 2 = Vig (-2) for a total of 9 shots.
Mafia will be three members large. The mafia team starts with 5 shots and a Shot Remover. The mafia team will receive shots beyond the initial 5 shots dependent upon the number of shots that town receives as follows:
If Town has X then Mafia gets Y:
5 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Rolecop + Goon. Total: 5 shots
6 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Roleblocker + Goon. Total: 5 shots
7 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Rolecop + Goon. Total: 6 shots
8 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Roleblocker + Goon. Total 6 shots
9 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Rolecop + Goon. Total 7 shots
10 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Roleblocker + Goon Total 7 shots
11 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 8 shots
12 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Roleblocker + Bus Driver. Total 8 shots
13 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Rolecop + Roleblocker . Total 9 shots
14 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Roleblocker + Bus Driver. Total 9 shots
15 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 10 shots
16 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Roleblocker + Bus Driver. Total 10 shots
Mafia NKs do not count as using up shots.
The Mafia team also has access to a universal JOAT (Strongman, Ninja, Cop Immune and Bulletproof) that can be used by any player during the game under the following rules.
JOAT Rules
1. Each JOAT modifier can be used once per cycle during the course of the game. If all four abilities are used up the cycle starts over.
2. A cycle also starts over if a mafia player who has performed or used a JOAT modifier dies at any point in the game.
Example: Player X used Strongman on Night1. On Night2 the Strongman power cannot be used again by any player and Player Y uses Bulletproof. On Day3, Player X is lynched. Now, a new cycle has begun for the Strongman. On Night3, another player may now use Strongman, but not Bulletproof as that was used and kept in cycle on Night2.
3. JOAT abilities will only overcome one corresponding town role per night. In the event that multiple roles of the same time are used by town the one that overcomes the JOAT modifiers will be randomized.
4. JOAT modifiers require one shot to use unless a JOAT modifier is used to modify a role that already required a shot, it will not count extra.
5. Only one JOAT ability can be used by an individual player each night.
Example: a Ninja NK will count as one shot used.
Example: a Strongman Roleblock will count as one shot used.
Shot Changer Rules:
- Shot Changers can be Town or Mafia.
Town Shot Changers:
- Town Shot Changers may attempt to target a Power Role each night to give Town Shot Pool an additional shot.
- Targeting of Vanilla Townies will result as no effect.
- PRs will not be informed of receiving shots from a Shot Changer.
- A Town Shot Changing does not use up a shot, but it does require the Town Shot Pool to not be at zero at the time of the Shot Change.
- If a Mafia PR is targeted the Mafia Shot Pool will receive an additional shot.
- Town Shot Givers count as a Town PR that shots can be added to if targeted.
Mafia Shot Changers:
- Mafia Shot Changers may attempt to target a Power Role each night to remove a shot from the Town Shot Pool.
- Targeting of Vanilla Townies will result as no effect.
- PRs will not be informed of having shots removed from a Shot Changer.
- A Mafia Shot Changing does use up a shot from the Mafia Shot Pool.
- If Mafia targets another Mafia Player the Mafia Shot Pool will lose a shot.
- Town Shot Givers count as a Town PR that shots can be removed from if targeted.
Night Action Resolution:
Bus Drive
Blocking Roles
Shot Changer
Protective Roles
Killing Roles
Investigative Roles
- Roles of the same type will occur simultaneously.
Notes:
- Each PR brings X shots into the player pool. All PRs may access the pool.
- Town will not know the number of shots available to the whole at any time.
- PRs will not be informed of how many shots they bring into the game.
- Mafia will not be informed of the number of shots available to them at any time.
- If a lynch of a town PR occurs, 1 shot will be removed from the Town Shot Pool.
- If a Night Kill of a PR occurs, 0 shots will be removed from the Town Shot Pool.
- If a Mafia PR dies via either method, 0 shots will be removed from the Mafia Shot Pool.
- Goons and Vanilla Townie return “Vanilla” to Rolecops
- Rolecops will be unable to distinguish between Town Shot Changers and Mafia Shot Changers.
- Investigative roles that are blocked return “No Result.”
- Investigative roles that are attempted but unable to be used due to a lack of shots will return "No Result"
- Trackers/Watchers will receive results of "No Result" when targeting a Ninja modified action or when targeted player had no applicable action to see. This is an intended deviation from typical Mafiascum rules.
- Watchers will not see themselves as a targeting action.
- Cops return results of “Guilty” or “Not Guilty.”
- Players that are Jailkept may be investigated while in jail.
- JOAT modifiers must be specified as belonging to a player for the night.
- Strongman overcomes one blocking/protective role.
- Ninja is unobservable from all tracking roles.
- Bulletproof stops a kill from one shot.
- Kill flavor is not indicative of who performed the kill.
- Bulletproof and Cop Immune abilities are passive and may not be blocked.
- Players without roles will be called "Vanilla Townies" or "Mafia Goons."
- An individual mafia can’t perform an action and night kill the same night unless only 1 mafia player is alive.
- If the game progresses to a point where at night more actions are being performed than shots available the night action resolution will prioritize which actions are used and which are not.
- If a shot is blocked for any reason it is still effectively considered to be “used up.”
- Roles may self target and will use up a shot, but unless the self targeting was caused by bus driving the role will not have an effect.
- Players of both alignments will not be informed if their night action was successful or not except in the case of investigations getting results back.
- PRs will not flip the number of shots they brought into the game upon death
TL;DR Summary:
- Town can have between 3 to 5 roles with 5-16 shots of any combination out of the 10 listed above.
- Shots may be used by any PR in the faction to which shots are assigned.
- Mafia has a Shot Changer, a Universal JOAT and 5 shots to start. An additional 5 shots may be added with additional PRs dependent upon the number of shots Town receives.
PM specifics:
- Town will receive PMs with their role in green text.
- Mafia will receive PMs with their role in red text.
- Town's win condition is: you win when all threats to town have been eliminated
- Mafia's win condition is: you win when there are no town players alive and there is at least one mafia player still alive, or when nothing can be done to prevent that.
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\in
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I would be /in if Marvel (or my participation in it) will finish and Board game into N2 (or I am killed there)
A couple of question - there is a SK PM, but no mention of it otherwise in the setup. Also not all roles have PMs
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SK hunting is scummy!
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There is no SK in this setup. That PM is a leftover from the previous version. It, along with a couple of other changes will be made shortly.
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/in
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/in but I might chicken out.
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/in times of need, play mafia!
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/in
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/tag
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Disappointed my auto in wasn't registered.
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/in
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/tag
I really like this set-up. But there are some things that confuse me. It doesn't matter which shots correspond with which role for scum, right, since they won't be told anything anyway? So this part could be cleaned up like this:
5 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Goon. Total: 5 shots
6 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total: 5 shots
7 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Goon. Total: 6 shots
8 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 6 shots
9 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Roleblocker + Goon. Total 7 shots
10 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 7 shots
11 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 8 shots
12 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Roleblocker + Bus Driver. Total 8 shots
13 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker . Total 9 shots
14 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Roleblocker + Bus Driver. Total 9 shots
15 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 10 shots
16 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Roleblocker + Bus Driver. Total 10 shots
I think this is easier to read and understand than assigning different numbers of shots to each role (which doesn't end up mattering).
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/in
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Woo!
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/in
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Disappointed my auto in wasn't registered.
someday I will remember...
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/tag
I really like this set-up. But there are some things that confuse me. It doesn't matter which shots correspond with which role for scum, right, since they won't be told anything anyway? So this part could be cleaned up like this:
5 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Goon. Total: 5 shots
6 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total: 5 shots
7 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Goon. Total: 6 shots
8 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 6 shots
9 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Roleblocker + Goon. Total 7 shots
10 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 7 shots
11 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 8 shots
12 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Roleblocker + Bus Driver. Total 8 shots
13 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker . Total 9 shots
14 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Roleblocker + Bus Driver. Total 9 shots
15 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 10 shots
16 shots mafia gets: Shot Remover + Roleblocker + Bus Driver. Total 10 shots
I think this is easier to read and understand than assigning different numbers of shots to each role (which doesn't end up mattering).
If the setup rules stay the same I will modify it to this format. i am still tinkering with a ruling that I used in the previous iteration that if a PR is lynched or NK they take the amount of shots that they brought with them to their death. But that involved some complicated rules that I don't necessarily want to use again.
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I believe the setup is now cleaned up and ready to go. 3 slots left. If full this game will start January 1, 2016.
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I believe the setup is now cleaned up and ready to go. 3 slots left. If full this game will start January 1, 2016.
I assume town shot changer can't self target, right?
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I believe the setup is now cleaned up and ready to go. 3 slots left. If full this game will start January 1, 2016.
I assume town shot changer can't self target, right?
That is correct. Nor may any other role self target.
- No role may target itself.
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- No role may target itself.
(http://i.imgur.com/as5HjpJ.gif)
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- No role may successfully target itself.
(http://i.imgur.com/as5HjpJ.gif)
Fixed that for me.
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- No role may successfully target itself.
Fixed that for me.
Does that mean that if someone is bus driven onto himself, the action will fail?
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/in
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Just kind of wanted to confirm that I still want to play this setup. Totally didn't forget that I had already signed up or anything like that.
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- No role may successfully target itself.
Fixed that for me.
Does that mean that if someone is bus driven onto himself, the action will fail?
See this is why you guys are nice to have around, catching stuff like this. Let's see how to correctly word this to get the following rulings across:
- A player may target themselves, this will use up a shot.
- The action taken by that player will not have any effect on themselves
- If bus driven to take an action upon themselves the action will have an effect.
Let's try:
- Roles may self target and will use up a shot, but unless the self targeting was caused by bus driving the role will not have an effect.
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/in
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- No role may successfully target itself.
Fixed that for me.
Does that mean that if someone is bus driven onto himself, the action will fail?
See this is why you guys are nice to have around, catching stuff like this. Let's see how to correctly word this to get the following rulings across:
- A player may target themselves, this will use up a shot.
- The action taken by that player will not have any effect on themselves
- If bus driven to take an action upon themselves the action will have an effect.
Let's try:
- Roles may self target and will use up a shot, but unless the self targeting was caused by bus driving the role will not have an effect.
Why are you even allowing them to self-target at all in the first place ? Wouldn't it be cleaner to just say town roles can't self-target ? Then Bus Driver trumps that obviously and you're good to go.
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I think it is possible to just say "no role may choose themselves as a target".
The only thing this does not allow is strategic self-targetting hoping that a Bus Driver redirects the shot to someone else... but I think that's a very narrow strategic space anyway.
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Why are you even allowing them to self-target at all in the first place ? Wouldn't it be cleaner to just say town roles can't self-target ? Then Bus Driver trumps that obviously and you're good to go.
Well I want there to be a mechanism where someone could choose to use up a shot but be guaranteed to have it do nothing and have no effect. It is kind of like the Ace card that Goko implemented for Wishing Well. This I feel is necessary because the game is working under a limited number of shots from which to pull.
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Why are you even allowing them to self-target at all in the first place ? Wouldn't it be cleaner to just say town roles can't self-target ? Then Bus Driver trumps that obviously and you're good to go.
Well I want there to be a mechanism where someone could choose to use up a shot but be guaranteed to have it do nothing and have no effect. It is kind of like the Ace card that Goko implemented for Wishing Well. This I feel is necessary because the game is working under a limited number of shots from which to pull.
You could just add a Use Shot mechanism that does exactly that and nothing else. You can choose to do it in lieu of an action.
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That's even more convoluted. Yuma's current wording seems better if he wants that option, I doubt it'll be used though.
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Why are you even allowing them to self-target at all in the first place ? Wouldn't it be cleaner to just say town roles can't self-target ? Then Bus Driver trumps that obviously and you're good to go.
Well I want there to be a mechanism where someone could choose to use up a shot but be guaranteed to have it do nothing and have no effect. It is kind of like the Ace card that Goko implemented for Wishing Well. This I feel is necessary because the game is working under a limited number of shots from which to pull.
You could just add a Use Shot mechanism that does exactly that and nothing else. You can choose to do it in lieu of an action.
I suppose if you want a tracker/watcher to see you take an action, you need to target someone, even if the action is going to fail. I could see some edge case uses.
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/in
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/in
BAM!
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/in
BAM!
It's frustrating to think "oh great, ash hammered" when you see the new reply only to realize he is already signed up for the game.
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/in
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Yay!
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We are full!
PMs to come out shortly. Thread locked for all players and spectators except to /tag. Day1 will likely start sometime around Monday morning depending on when I get PMs sent.
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PMs have been sent out. Day1 will start after all players have confirmed at Monday 8 am, forum time, at the earliest.
Thread Locked except for tags
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/tag
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/tag
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still awaiting some confirmations. Again game won't start until all players have confirmed receipt.
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/tag
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Day1 Starts Now!
Vote Count 1.0
Not Voting (13): ashersky, Egork, Xerxes, faust, WW, hydrad, ss, RR, ADK, Teproc, awaclus, EFHW, gkrieg
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day1 will end Monday, January 18 at 8:00 am forum time.
Thread Unlocked!
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Vote: RR
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Vote: silverspawn
He's got to be scum here.
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vote: RR
He's got to be scum here.
sorry to disappoint you!
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sorry to disappoint you!
So you admit it?
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sorry to disappoint you!
So you admit it?
I admit that you're wrong. I would happily admit that all day.
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Hi everyone!
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Hi, I'm here. silver sounds towny here, not so sure about ashersky....
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I have already been alerted to an error in the setup:
Welcome to X-SHOTS. An open 13-player setup created by yuma. In X-SHOTS both town and non-town will be given an X amount of PRs with an X amount of shots. Shots will be cumulative for the entire faction to use. Town will not be informed at any time of how many shots they start with as a whole, how many shots remain or if a specific shot was successful unless it yields a PM-able result. Town PRs will be informed of how many shots they bring into the game for the whole of town to use. Mafia will not be informed of how many shots they bring into the game for the whole of mafia to use.
The line struck through was not intended to be included in the setup. Town roles were not informed of how many shots they brought into the game. Nor will they be informed at any time. The OP will be edited to reflect this.
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Hi, I'm here. silver sounds towny here, not so sure about ashersky....
ashersky hasn't posted yet?
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Hi, I'm here. silver sounds towny here, not so sure about ashersky....
ashersky hasn't posted yet?
Exactly! An iron-clad case.
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I agree that I'm towny. Therefore EFHW is right. Which means ash is scum.
hey, this game is easy!
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sorry to disappoint you!
So you admit it?
I admit that you're wrong. I would happily admit that all day.
Are you happy or sorry?
Your narrative is inconsistent, therefore you must be scum.
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Okay, I have something to say.
I am a Vig
You should all be very afraid. Discuss.
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sorry to disappoint you!
So you admit it?
I admit that you're wrong. I would happily admit that all day.
Are you happy or sorry?
Your narrative is inconsistent, therefore you must be scum.
I'm initially mildly sorry for disappointing you. Then, as as you attempted to turn this into a directionless discussion of twisted words, my sympathy quickly vanished.
Okay, I have something to say.
I am a Vig
You should all be very afraid. Discuss.
probably a SK fakeclaim
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I'm initially mildly sorry for disappointing you. Then, as as you attempted to turn this into a directionless discussion of twisted words, my sympathy quickly vanished.
And now your story just keeps changing.
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sorry to disappoint you!
So you admit it?
I admit that you're wrong. I would happily admit that all day.
Are you happy or sorry?
Your narrative is inconsistent, therefore you must be scum.
I'm initially mildly sorry for disappointing you. Then, as as you attempted to turn this into a directionless discussion of twisted words, my sympathy quickly vanished.
Okay, I have something to say.
I am a Vig
You should all be very afraid. Discuss.
probably a SK fakeclaim
There's no SK in this setup. Townslip means that Silverspawn is an IC.
I don't like that you claimed that right away, but I'm inclined to believe the claim.
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silverspawn is an IC.
yay!
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Silver probably wasn't serious.
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Hi, I'm here. silver sounds towny here, not so sure about ashersky....
Two possibilities :
a) EFHW is being funny, but it's ambiguous, and ambiguity is scummy
b) EFHW is being serious, which means she's already fully into this game, probably because she's been discussing it with her scumbuddies
vote: EFHW
We're out of RVS now. You're welcome.
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Hi, I'm here. silver sounds towny here, not so sure about ashersky....
Two possibilities :
a) EFHW is being funny, but it's ambiguous, and ambiguity is scummy
b) EFHW is being serious, which means she's already fully into this game, probably because she's been discussing it with her scumbuddies
vote: EFHW
We're out of RVS now. You're welcome.
Hi slowpoke.
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Okay, I have something to say.
I am a Vig
You should all be very afraid. Discuss.
Wait, I had missed that. We were already out of RVS then, credit where credit is due.
I need to read the setup, brb.
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Vote Count 1.1
RR (2): EgorK, ss
ss (1): Awaclus
EFHW (1): Teproc
Not Voting (9): ashersky, Xerxes, faust, WW, hydrad, RR, ADK, EFHW, gkrieg
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day1 will end Monday, January 18 at 8:00 am forum time.
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vote: WW
He's mafia fakeclaiming because it hasn't happened before and it's worth it for him. He'll know we will eventually settle on not shooting to save shots and then directed shooting when needed and he can happily flow along.
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vote: WW
He's mafia fakeclaiming because it hasn't happened before and it's worth it for him. He'll know we will eventually settle on not shooting to save shots and then directed shooting when needed and he can happily flow along.
Sounds like you may have thought of doing this yourself.
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WW, could you explain why you decided to claim ?
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WW, could you explain why you decided to claim ?
I just wanted Yuma to be proud of me.
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Hi, I'm here. silver sounds towny here, not so sure about ashersky....
Two possibilities :
a) EFHW is being funny, but it's ambiguous, and ambiguity is scummy
b) EFHW is being serious, which means she's already fully into this game, probably because she's been discussing it with her scumbuddies
vote: EFHW
We're out of RVS now. You're welcome.
Quoi? I'm funny! Really. I mean it, seriously.
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WW, could you explain why you decided to claim ?
I just wanted Yuma to be proud of me.
Would you mind actually answering ? This might be a pointless exercise, but still.
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vote: EFHW because of that one time.
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Meanwhile...
The interesting thing about this setup is that nights get better for town as it goes along. I think no-lynching is worth discussing.
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WW, could you explain why you decided to claim ?
I just wanted Yuma to be proud of me.
Would you mind actually answering ? This might be a pointless exercise, but still.
Well, seriously, I'm taking a page from Yuma here. It gets us out of RVS, which is always good. I'm not sure if I will be shooting or not, it will probably depend a lot on how strongly I feel at any given time. But even if I don't, then I'm kind of like a named townie. And scum will have to think about whether to kill me or let me live.
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WW, could you explain why you decided to claim ?
I just wanted Yuma to be proud of me.
Would you mind actually answering ? This might be a pointless exercise, but still.
Well, seriously, I'm taking a page from Yuma here. It gets us out of RVS, which is always good. I'm not sure if I will be shooting or not, it will probably depend a lot on how strongly I feel at any given time. But even if I don't, then I'm kind of like a named townie. And scum will have to think about whether to kill me or let me live.
Right. Well, I agree with one part of that, the one where you're a named townie.
Because vigs are terrible in this setup. You should definitely not shoot N1, or probably any other night given that the usual best case scenario for a vig is in the case of a counterclaim, and that doesn't work because scum can go bulletproof.
I lean kinda townie on this claim. Scum can definitely do it, and it would be on scum!WW's mind precisely because of yuma's claim in Marvel Heroes. It does have a very real cost for scum!WW though, in that he can't make up stories for justifying being seen doing other stuff in the future, and he will not be able to justify being seen killing someone because he should not shoot.
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On the subject of not shooting, and since I'm on a theory talk roll I think we should do a list of roles that should or should not use their shots on night 1.
Should :
- Cop
- Watcher
- Tracker
Shouldn't :
- Vig
- Bodyguard
- Roleblocker
- Rolecop
WIFOM, do whatever you want :
- Doctor
- Jailkeeper
Not sure about some of these (JK, Rolecop and Roleblocker specifically), but there's probably value in forbidding some roles to use their shots, not only because we don't want to waste shots on a Bodyguard, but also because it prevents scum from fakeclaiming those roles that night.
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Silver probably wasn't serious.
Neither was I.
vote: WW
He's mafia fakeclaiming because it hasn't happened before and it's worth it for him. He'll know we will eventually settle on not shooting to save shots and then directed shooting when needed and he can happily flow along.
I mean if there's ever two NKs we know he's telling the truth. I'm content to let him live and not direct his shots for now.
Hi, I'm here. silver sounds towny here, not so sure about ashersky....
Two possibilities :
a) EFHW is being funny, but it's ambiguous, and ambiguity is scummy
b) EFHW is being serious, which means she's already fully into this game, probably because she's been discussing it with her scumbuddies
vote: EFHW
We're out of RVS now. You're welcome.
Quoi? I'm funny! Really. I mean it, seriously.
vote: EFHW
Meanwhile...
The interesting thing about this setup is that nights get better for town as it goes along. I think no-lynching is worth discussing.
Don't you mean "worse"? Once we run out of shots we're playing vanilla mafia, that's bad isn't it?
but also because it prevents scum from fakeclaiming those roles that night.
I don't understand this. Scum has a pretty limited ability to fakeclaim anyway, it's not something I'm actually worried about here.
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We have more shots than scum does in most setups.
Why does scum has a limited ability to fakeclaim ?
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Robz survived to the end on a fakeclaim last time...
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Yeah, this setup is actually pretty great for fakeclaiming. Well maybe not great, but there's a lot of variability and a lot of excuses for bad/no results etc.
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Last time this was a closed setup. This time we know there are only 3-4 roles, and certain combinations are impossible, and a massclaim catches lying scum pretty easily. Scum doesn't need shots as badly as town does, there most important ability (the NK) doesn't use them. Their shots are only important to help them deal with town powers, and once our shots are gone they don't care about those. We're going to run out of shots pretty quickly, so we want to give the people using them the best use of them that we can, which involves giving them as much information as we can.
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Sorry, 4-5 roles.
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3-5, but again, only certain combinations correspond with certain numbers.
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Last time this was a closed setup. This time we know there are only 3-4 roles, and certain combinations are impossible, and a massclaim catches lying scum pretty easily. Scum doesn't need shots as badly as town does, there most important ability (the NK) doesn't use them. Their shots are only important to help them deal with town powers, and once our shots are gone they don't care about those. We're going to run out of shots pretty quickly, so we want to give the people using them the best use of them that we can, which involves giving them as much information as we can.
You really think a massclaim catches scum here ? It really doesn't. Or at least I don't see how. It can create a "well, one of these 4-5 guys has to be lying" situation, but that's not exactly catching scum, those are normal lynching odds.
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As for the shots thing... think about how scared you are of PRs when you're scum. Scum will use stuff like NInja and Strongman and Roleblocker early on. They don't want to get caught at night, because there's very little you can do to fight that once it's done.
I think scum should run out of shots before we do, if we're careful and don't use our shots willy-nilly.
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I mean, you can look at who's more likely to be lying, and who's already dead and flipped. Fakeclaiming scum isn't caught right away but eventually their chances aren't good. In the other game there was no way Robz could have gotten away with his cop claim if the setup had been open because eventually it would have become apparent that there was no way for that to be true.
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Here I was thinking I would be the one ending RVS.
I propose a semi mass claim.
That is, I want everone to claim PR/non-PR.
ADK already caught something of why it's good. We know how many PRs there are (3-5, most likely 4). If we get 5-6 PR claims, we can hunt scum among the VTs. Scum can choose to either keep our PRs alive or reduce our lynch pool by killing PRs. The PRs can make the most of their shots.
It's also good because in this setup, PRs dying during the day is worse than them dying at night (lynching a PR makes us lose a shot). It's also good because we have a limited number of shots, so keeping PRs alive a long time is worse than it would usually be.
I calculated some probabilities for the number of PRs:
P(3 PRs) = 4.6%
P(4 PRs) = 71.39%
P(5 PRs) = 24.01%
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Should have kepts those numbers for yourself faust ! There are definitely scumteams that wouldn't bother to calculate them and would just wing it.
I like it. Not sure how long we should commit to only lynching VTs (at least two days I guess), but I like it.
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What do you think about oragnizing which PRs are allowed to shoot or not faust (and everyone else for that matter) ?
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Also I believe WW's claim. Vig is a super bad fakeclaim here because if there is a real vig, they can simply shoot WW.
And looking at the setup, I think it is impossible for the mafia to know that there is no vig.
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Also I believe WW's claim. Vig is a super bad fakeclaim here because if there is a real vig, they can simply shoot WW.
And looking at the setup, I think it is impossible for the mafia to know that there is no vig.
There can be multiple vigs AND scum has Bulletproof as part of their JOAT, so I have to disagree there.
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I don't like organizing shots. I might be on board with faust's PR claiming idea, although at this point I think scum is just going to claim VT.
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I don't like organizing shots.
Why ?
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What do you think about oragnizing which PRs are allowed to shoot or not faust (and everyone else for that matter) ?
I'm not a fan. If you're town, use your best jugdment. Making a plan for everyone takes away responsibility for your own actions, which means that fake-claimers have it easier. Your list is a decent starting point, though I think Rolecops should absolutely investigate.
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Also I believe WW's claim. Vig is a super bad fakeclaim here because if there is a real vig, they can simply shoot WW.
And looking at the setup, I think it is impossible for the mafia to know that there is no vig.
There can be multiple vigs AND scum has Bulletproof as part of their JOAT, so I have to disagree there.
Double vig is so unlikely that if I were a vig, I would shoot WW. And if WW is bulletproof, well the other vig can claim this at the start of D2 and then we lynch WW.
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What do you think about oragnizing which PRs are allowed to shoot or not faust (and everyone else for that matter) ?
I'm not a fan. If you're town, use your best jugdment. Making a plan for everyone takes away responsibility for your own actions, which means that fake-claimers have it easier. Your list is a decent starting point, though I think Rolecops should absolutely investigate.
On the contrary, it makes fakeclaiming harder, because they can't bullshit stuff like Roleblocker or Vig.
I might be underestimating Rolecop I guess, it does get a lot better if we do your plan too.
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Should have kepts those numbers for yourself faust ! There are definitely scumteams that wouldn't bother to calculate them and would just wing it.
I like it. Not sure how long we should commit to only lynching VTs (at least two days I guess), but I like it.
The numbers for the scumteam are different anyway.
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Roleblocker also gets better with your plan. I like a combination of both more as I think about it.
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Like, you say "use your judgment", but really by your reasoning a vig should just straight up go to claiming and we lynch one of the vigs. Anything that's good enough to justify a vig shot is good enough to justify a lynch.
In this case I don't know if the low probability of two vigs would be enough for me, but you see my point right ?
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Like, you say "use your judgment", but really by your reasoning a vig should just straight up go to claiming and we lynch one of the vigs. Anything that's good enough to justify a vig shot is good enough to justify a lynch.
In this case I don't know if the low probability of two vigs would be enough for me, but you see my point right ?
Well, the vig could also shoot WW the following night and then does not have to claim. I guess he could claim, but night killing a town PR > lynching a town PR in the unlikely case that there are two vigs. Also if there are two vigs, my plan at least doesn't out the other one.
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I don't like organizing the vig shots because then we let scum know what's going to happen at night and can react accordingly.
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I don't like organizing the vig shots because then we let scum know what's going to happen at night and can react accordingly.
We don't really... I guess it guarantees that they don't use Bulletproof, but that's it.
I'm really curious how youg guys think a Vig shot is worth as much as an investigative shot. Every time a Vig shoots, that's a Cop who doesn't get to investigate in the future. THat's pretty terrible, we should arrange things so taht every one of our shots is actually useful (that's why I would want doctors to strongly consider not protecting).
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re: probability, remember these are 10-sided dice, not 6.
There is a problem with the plan, though. If we have 3 or 4 roles, scum claiming towards the end could risk fake-claiming a PR. Also, too many PRs makes them all suspect - if there are too many, then who of the claimers is lying? Could be any of them. Say we have 6 claims, then 1, 2 or 3 could be lies and we wouldn't know how many.
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Okay, I'm here. And I got two votes for saying hi.
Organizing shots sounds like bad news, I don't really want to take part in it, but I will if we can agree on something for once. And unless WW with dayvig me for this, I'm gonna read the setup.
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Also say we assume only 1 scum would risk a fakeclaim. In that case, with 4 claims we have 2 scum in 9 people, not that different from 3/13. With 5 it's 2 scum in 8, just slightly better than 3/13. With 6 it's 2 in 7, getting better but 6 is a lot, there could just as easily be 2 scum in the 6, and then we should lynch PRs not VTs.
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and then we should lynch PRs not VTs.
Seems prerty awful.
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and then we should lynch PRs not VTs.
Seems prerty awful.
Pretty sure that's her point.
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and then we should lynch PRs not VTs.
Seems pretty awful.
Pretty sure that's her point.
Pretty sure it is, too. Thanks!
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Hi, I'm here. silver sounds towny here, not so sure about ashersky....
Two possibilities :
a) EFHW is being funny, but it's ambiguous, and ambiguity is scummy
b) EFHW is being serious, which means she's already fully into this game, probably because she's been discussing it with her scumbuddies
vote: EFHW
We're out of RVS now. You're welcome.
Quoi? I'm funny! Really. I mean it, seriously.
vote: EFHW
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.
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I think this will be an easy win for town, there are like eight pros in the setup. It's likely that a few of them are mafia, but still, this is a power game.
PPE
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I'm really curious how youg guys think a Vig shot is worth as much as an investigative shot. Every time a Vig shoots, that's a Cop who doesn't get to investigate in the future. THat's pretty terrible, we should arrange things so taht every one of our shots is actually useful (that's why I would want doctors to strongly consider not protecting).
Well, I think a Cop only gets to use shots until he has a guilty result, then he claims and probably dies. And what do you do if there are no investigative roles? Then we just sit around idly while our PRs die one by one.
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re: probability, remember these are 10-sided dice, not 6.
There is a problem with the plan, though. If we have 3 or 4 roles, scum claiming towards the end could risk fake-claiming a PR. Also, too many PRs makes them all suspect - if there are too many, then who of the claimers is lying? Could be any of them. Say we have 6 claims, then 1, 2 or 3 could be lies and we wouldn't know how many.
In some scenarios it might be beneficial to continue on with a full claim.
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hmmmm
one reason against partial mass claiming is that WW already claimed vig. If we partial claim, we want the weak PRs to be hidden so that scum can't easily kill the strong ones.
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I'm tentatively against doing it.
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re: probability, remember these are 10-sided dice, not 6.
There is a problem with the plan, though. If we have 3 or 4 roles, scum claiming towards the end could risk fake-claiming a PR. Also, too many PRs makes them all suspect - if there are too many, then who of the claimers is lying? Could be any of them. Say we have 6 claims, then 1, 2 or 3 could be lies and we wouldn't know how many.
In some scenarios it might be beneficial to continue on with a full claim.
Well, that could be interesting given that certain combinations of roles are not possible. We might be able to get down to 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 if there are mutually contradictory claims. But there are a lot of problems with full mass claims Day 1, as I know you are aware. This also makes your plan essentially a proposal for full mass claim because PR/no PR is not likely to be very informative.
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I would be for the semi-mass claim. Partially because I've never been in a game where we did it, and because I think it is a good idea.
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I'm really curious how youg guys think a Vig shot is worth as much as an investigative shot. Every time a Vig shoots, that's a Cop who doesn't get to investigate in the future. THat's pretty terrible, we should arrange things so taht every one of our shots is actually useful (that's why I would want doctors to strongly consider not protecting).
Well, I think a Cop only gets to use shots until he has a guilty result, then he claims and probably dies. And what do you do if there are no investigative roles? Then we just sit around idly while our PRs die one by one.
That's actually a great outcome. Scum doesn't know if there are any investigative PRs, so they use their shots while we don't. Sure we do nothing night 1, but we're at a massive advantage for the next nights.
Re-evaluating every day is part of what I'm saying, so yeah at a certain point if we're not getting investigative results at all we can reconsider.
Also if we do the semi-mass claim, I do think Roleblocker and JK should use their shots too. just not Vigs and Bodyguards, and Doctors can use them or not but shouldn't default to using them.
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Well, to be clear, I don't think vigs should shoot in general, but if there is another vig out there, he might consider shooting WW.
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re: probability, remember these are 10-sided dice, not 6.
There is a problem with the plan, though. If we have 3 or 4 roles, scum claiming towards the end could risk fake-claiming a PR. Also, too many PRs makes them all suspect - if there are too many, then who of the claimers is lying? Could be any of them. Say we have 6 claims, then 1, 2 or 3 could be lies and we wouldn't know how many.
In some scenarios it might be beneficial to continue on with a full claim.
Well, that could be interesting given that certain combinations of roles are not possible. We might be able to get down to 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 if there are mutually contradictory claims. But there are a lot of problems with full mass claims Day 1, as I know you are aware. This also makes your plan essentially a proposal for full mass claim because PR/no PR is not likely to be very informative.
Well, it really depends. If we get 5 or 7 PR claims, I really wouldn't do the mass claim, and even with 6 I'm not sure.
We should also note that WW being a vig makes 5 PRs much more unlikely.
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hmmmm
one reason against partial mass claiming is that WW already claimed vig. If we partial claim, we want the weak PRs to be hidden so that scum can't easily kill the strong ones.
I am not sure what you're saying here.
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hmmmm
one reason against partial mass claiming is that WW already claimed vig. If we partial claim, we want the weak PRs to be hidden so that scum can't easily kill the strong ones.
I am not sure what you're saying here.
well, the drawback of partial massclaiming is that scum can more easily kill PRs, right? Vig is a pretty weak PR, so if we do the partial massclaim now, there will be fewer unknown PRs, and the strong ones will be among them. If scum starts killing those, rip Cop, rip uh whatever other strong PRs there are.
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hmmmm
one reason against partial mass claiming is that WW already claimed vig. If we partial claim, we want the weak PRs to be hidden so that scum can't easily kill the strong ones.
I am not sure what you're saying here.
well, the drawback of partial massclaiming is that scum can more easily kill PRs, right? Vig is a pretty weak PR, so if we do the partial massclaim now, there will be fewer unknown PRs, and the strong ones will be among them. If scum starts killing those, rip Cop, rip uh whatever other strong PRs there are.
I disagree with the notion that Vig is a weak PR, and so does yuma if we go by the setup.
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I think vig is pretty weak. Even normally, it's not clear if you want to use it at all, and here, there is the extra opportunity cost.
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I'm not sure what I tried to mean by opportunity cost, but there's an extra cost.
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Do we want town to lie ever?
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Vote Count 1.2
RR (2): EgorK, ss
ss (1): Awaclus
EFHW (3): Teproc, gkrieg, ADK
WW (1): ashersky
Not Voting (6): Xerxes, faust, WW, hydrad, RR, EFHW
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
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Do we want town to lie ever?
Close to never. Maybe not never-never.
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Let's get Shraeye in here to answer that one
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Meanwhile...
The interesting thing about this setup is that nights get better for town as it goes along. I think no-lynching is worth discussing.
Why is this?
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Do we want town to lie ever?
hardly ever!
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I don't like organizing the vig shots because then we let scum know what's going to happen at night and can react accordingly.
We don't really... I guess it guarantees that they don't use Bulletproof, but that's it.
I'm really curious how youg guys think a Vig shot is worth as much as an investigative shot. Every time a Vig shoots, that's a Cop who doesn't get to investigate in the future. THat's pretty terrible, we should arrange things so taht every one of our shots is actually useful (that's why I would want doctors to strongly consider not protecting).
There's also the chance that we don't end up using all the shots, in which case a vig doesn't stop the cop from copping.
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I'm not saying WW should shoot for sure, I'm saying we should leave that decision up to WW.
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Hi, I'm here. silver sounds towny here, not so sure about ashersky....
Two possibilities :
a) EFHW is being funny, but it's ambiguous, and ambiguity is scummy
b) EFHW is being serious, which means she's already fully into this game, probably because she's been discussing it with her scumbuddies
vote: EFHW
We're out of RVS now. You're welcome.
Quoi? I'm funny! Really. I mean it, seriously.
vote: EFHW
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.
I'm trying to say I thought your response was scummy.
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Teproc says: 'If you have a PR, use it!'
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I think vig is pretty weak. Even normally, it's not clear if you want to use it at all, and here, there is the extra opportunity cost.
Using a vig or using a lynch - these are pretty similar. Surely lynches are good?
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Teproc says: 'If you have a PR, use it!'
I do ?
@faust : They are similar in that they have the same downsides except vigs have none of the upside (aside from hitting scum I mean, which i think vigs are less likely to than lynches).
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Vigs are a typical case of Best Case Scenario Mentality, in that it feels great when it works. I get it, chairs will never be able to not use a vig shot because he wants to bask in that Dynasty Warriors glory. But when it doesn't work, it's just awful. Whereas a lot of good can come out of a mislynch, and correct lynches are much, mich better than correct vig shots.
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Teproc says: 'If you have a PR, use it!'
I do ?
@faust : They are similar in that they have the same downsides except vigs have none of the upside (aside from hitting scum I mean, which i think vigs are less likely to than lynches).
Back in Marval heros when we were talking about Yuma's power.
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So yes, lynches are good, but they're about 10 times superior to vig shots in terms of EV. Vig shots are, generally, negative EV.
PPE : So are you being sarcastic or misremembering ? Because I wasn't the one making the argument (I think WW was ?).
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Do we want town to lie ever?
Town should generally not lie. There are of course exceptions, plenty of them, but when one chooses to lie as town, one must be aware that it will make it very hard to be trusted, which could make the lie pointless. The typical example would be a PR claiming VT to avoid being killed, but what's the point if you're getting mislynched when you claim because you lied ?
But you know all this, so what's going on ?
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So yes, lynches are good, but they're about 10 times superior to vig shots in terms of EV. Vig shots are, generally, negative EV.
PPE : So are you being sarcastic or misremembering ? Because I wasn't the one making the argument (I think WW was ?).
That might've been WW. If it was, it seems more likely that he'll shoot.
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I'm going to shoot if I think it's a good idea. In this setup, there is the opportunity cost of using up a shot, so it's somewhat less likely than without it.
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I was also slightly exaggerating my desire for Yuma to shoot in that game.
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I'm going to shoot if I think it's a good idea. In this setup, there is the opportunity cost of using up a shot, so it's somewhat less likely than without it.
I like this, and I think this should be the end of discussion on the matter.
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I'm going to shoot if I think it's a good idea. In this setup, there is the opportunity cost of using up a shot, so it's somewhat less likely than without it.
I like this, and I think this should be the end of discussion on the matter.
Agreed. So are we claiming now?
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I'm going back and forth on whether it's a good idea or not.
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I'm sort of indifferent as I expect most PRS to lie, so there will be like 11 VTs, WW, and one more PR.
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I'm sort of indifferent as I expect most PRS to lie, so there will be like 11 VTs, WW, and one more PR.
Em, no.
If we're doing this, people shouldn't lie about being PRs, it defeats the whole purpose of the thing.
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I'm sort of indifferent as I expect most PRS to lie, so there will be like 11 VTs, WW, and one more PR.
Em, no.
If we're doing this, people shouldn't lie about being PRs, it defeats the whole purpose of the thing.
Alright, I mostly trust these people. Let's do it!
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Ehhh. I missed tvs already. This game sucks.
As for what's happening. WW is town in my eyes right now and I'm fine with claiming pr/no pr
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Tvs = rvs... Silly autocorrect
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Vote: Hydrad
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Vote: Hydrad
Oh?
Ibteresting
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Vote: Hydrad
Oh?
Ibteresting
And I have really good reasoning.
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Vote: Hydrad
Oh?
Ibteresting
And I have really good reasoning.
Wanna share it?
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Vote: Hydrad
Oh?
Ibteresting
And I have really good reasoning.
Wanna share it?
Sure!
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Hi, I'm here. silver sounds towny here, not so sure about ashersky....
Two possibilities :
a) EFHW is being funny, but it's ambiguous, and ambiguity is scummy
b) EFHW is being serious, which means she's already fully into this game, probably because she's been discussing it with her scumbuddies
vote: EFHW
We're out of RVS now. You're welcome.
Quoi? I'm funny! Really. I mean it, seriously.
vote: EFHW
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.
I'm trying to say I thought your response was scummy.
I thought it was probably that, or maybe you didn't like the joke. How is it scummy?
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I also completely disagree with Teproc's premise here that being engaged in the game is scummy, and in any case my comment about ashersky was total RVS, because, as XP noted, he hadn't even posted yet.
I also think people imagine scum QT's as being much more influential than they are. So far I think Teproc is town, but I think his reasoning is really weak here.
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I am not in favor of the claiming. I think we won't learn very much, and we always end up revealing more information to mafia than we intend to once we start talking about roles.
I think town should never lie. It inevitably backfires.
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I only want to claim if like half the town is onboard. But with all these pros, shouldn't we just be able to find scum? I mean, I'll help as much as I can, but I'll probably just get in the way. Oh, and explaining my vote on Hydrad:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Umbrage%27s_Guide_on_How_to_Win_Scum_Games
I think links are allowed, but Hydrad seems like he's starting to do this, especially one and two. Since he is doing both one and two, I think he's just going down the list and hoping he can win this way.
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One of the points on that list is WIFOM. Does RR posting this link and then following it make him scum? Or does it make him town?
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One of the points on that list is WIFOM. Does RR posting this link and then following it make him scum? Or does it make him town?
Laugh about my evidence all you want, but I'm calling it right now.
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Huh, I guess that's UmbrageofSnow?
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Huh, I guess that's UmbrageofSnow?
That's what I thought, too.
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Vote: Hydrad
Oh?
Ibteresting
And I have really good reasoning.
Wanna share it?
Sure!
Is this a joke, or is this a joke? (please explain?)
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I don't really understand the setup, but I think it's probably been balanced enough a full claim should wait till we can narrow things down a bit.
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I don't like organizing the vig shots because then we let scum know what's going to happen at night and can react accordingly.
I definitely agree with this: non-randomized public choices are not good.
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Vote: Hydrad
Oh?
Ibteresting
And I have really good reasoning.
Wanna share it?
Sure!
Is this a joke, or is this a joke? (please explain?)
Check post #163
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Vote: Hydrad
Oh?
Ibteresting
And I have really good reasoning.
Wanna share it?
Sure!
Is this a joke, or is this a joke? (please explain?)
Check post #163
Hmm, it's been a long time since I've seen an actual case. vote: hydrad
I'll examine the reasoning in a bit, but I like that this is less-WIFOMy.
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I only want to claim if like half the town is onboard. But with all these pros, shouldn't we just be able to find scum? I mean, I'll help as much as I can, but I'll probably just get in the way. Oh, and explaining my vote on Hydrad:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Umbrage%27s_Guide_on_How_to_Win_Scum_Games
I think links are allowed, but Hydrad seems like he's starting to do this, especially one and two. Since he is doing both one and two, I think he's just going down the list and hoping he can win this way.
Huh interesting. Thats a fair reason.
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Wow, both Hydrad and Xerxes back me. This is super strange.
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I only want to claim if like half the town is onboard. But with all these pros, shouldn't we just be able to find scum? I mean, I'll help as much as I can, but I'll probably just get in the way. Oh, and explaining my vote on Hydrad:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Umbrage%27s_Guide_on_How_to_Win_Scum_Games
I think links are allowed, but Hydrad seems like he's starting to do this, especially one and two. Since he is doing both one and two, I think he's just going down the list and hoping he can win this way.
Huh interesting. Thats a fair reason.
Vote: Hydrad
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This is the first wagon I ever made, even though it's hardly a wagon. Anyone have thoughts on it?
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This is the first wagon I ever made, even though it's hardly a wagon. Anyone have thoughts on it?
I think its a good thing to do. But don't feel discouraged when I flip town. Keep trying to build cases and stuff even if your wrong sometimes.
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although reading that makes a bit of sense why people think I'm so scummy sometimes. I'm just so good at the game that I play good scum as town!
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Anyways RR is town I think. I don't think I've said that yet this game? But ya he feels pretty towny.
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This is the first wagon I ever made, even though it's hardly a wagon. Anyone have thoughts on it?
I think its a good thing to do. But don't feel discouraged when I flip town. Keep trying to build cases and stuff even if your wrong sometimes.
So you just accept your death that probably won't even happen? Seems...bad? I don't want you to close up, and I don't want you to say, 'oh, RR doesn't know any better.' I'm going to scumhunt today, and I would hope that scum would try to defend themselves. I'm going to be the new Morgrim (not).
PPE 2
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Anyways RR is town I think. I don't think I've said that yet this game? But ya he feels pretty towny.
White Knighting me won't work! But I'll back off for a minute and let people chip in before I clog the entire 8th page.
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This is the first wagon I ever made, even though it's hardly a wagon. Anyone have thoughts on it?
I think its a good thing to do. But don't feel discouraged when I flip town. Keep trying to build cases and stuff even if your wrong sometimes.
So you just accept your death that probably won't even happen? Seems...bad? I don't want you to close up, and I don't want you to say, 'oh, RR doesn't know any better.' I'm going to scumhunt today, and I would hope that scum would try to defend themselves. I'm going to be the new Morgrim (not).
PPE 2
No I'm not worried about being killed yet. But I'm just letting you know to not feel discouraged that when I do flip and I end up being town that doesn't really mean your case was bad and that you shouldn't have done it.
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This is the first wagon I ever made, even though it's hardly a wagon. Anyone have thoughts on it?
I think its a good thing to do. But don't feel discouraged when I flip town. Keep trying to build cases and stuff even if your wrong sometimes.
So you just accept your death that probably won't even happen? Seems...bad? I don't want you to close up, and I don't want you to say, 'oh, RR doesn't know any better.' I'm going to scumhunt today, and I would hope that scum would try to defend themselves. I'm going to be the new Morgrim (not).
PPE 2
No I'm not worried about being killed yet. But I'm just letting you know to not feel discouraged that when I do flip and I end up being town that doesn't really mean your case was bad and that you shouldn't have done it.
If you flip town, my case was obviously bad and I shouldn't have done it.
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I'm trying to say I thought your response was scummy.
[/quote] I thought it was probably that, or maybe you didn't like the joke. How is it scummy?
[/quote]
Teproc made a legitimate point about your post, and your response played it off as a joke. I find that scummy.
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I would vote for Hydrad too, and I super think RR is town.
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Oh man a day one wagon on me! I haven't had this for a while.
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Teproc says: 'If you have a PR, use it!'
I do ?
@faust : They are similar in that they have the same downsides except vigs have none of the upside (aside from hitting scum I mean, which i think vigs are less likely to than lynches).
I strongly disagree that vigs has less chance to hit then lynches. Just because confirmed townie reads should be better than average player read because they do not include scum planted reads
PPE: 2 pages
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I mean, problem with not getting wagon can still outweight this, but this is definately benefit
On the other hand I think I am ok with PR/nonPR claim
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Anyone want to say why the wagon is awful? Teproc? SS? Faust? Askersky?
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Anyone want to say why the wagon is awful? Teproc? SS? Faust? Askersky?
I'm not one of them, but this seems like typical Hydrad behavior to me. I think scum!Hydrad is more reserved and cautious.
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Anyone want to say why the wagon is awful? Teproc? SS? Faust? Askersky?
I'm not one of them, but this seems like typical Hydrad behavior to me. I think scum!Hydrad is more reserved and cautious.
Okay. You might be right, Hydrad is hard to read.
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I'm wondering about gkrieg. He usually weighs in more, and also more thoughtfully. His comment about Umbrage's list seemed "safe" b/c it had the article "speaking" with him. You can feel unsupported as scum because you can't talk with your partners, and every post is a risk. I don't remember what else he has said. I'll go back and look before voting.
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He has said one other thing:
I would be for the semi-mass claim. Partially because I've never been in a game where we did it, and because I think it is a good idea.
Don't really know what to make of this one either way.
Oh, and an RVS vote for me.
vote: EFHW because of that one time.
Here is the post I was referring to earlier:
One of the points on that list is WIFOM. Does RR posting this link and then following it make him scum? Or does it make him town?
I'm going with vote: gkrieg.
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I'm wondering about gkrieg. He usually weighs in more, and also more thoughtfully. His comment about Umbrage's list seemed "safe" b/c it had the article "speaking" with him. You can feel unsupported as scum because you can't talk with your partners, and every post is a risk. I don't remember what else he has said. I'll go back and look before voting.
I've been lurking a lot this game. I just haven't gotten into it yet. I feel like we have done some theory discussion and we are still in RVS, so I haven't been too interested. I've also been busy IRL and on the forum doing survivor and playing league matches. I'll get more into this tonight.
PPE
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He has said one other thing:
I would be for the semi-mass claim. Partially because I've never been in a game where we did it, and because I think it is a good idea.
Don't really know what to make of this one either way.
Oh, and an RVS vote for me.
vote: EFHW because of that one time.
Here is the post I was referring to earlier:
One of the points on that list is WIFOM. Does RR posting this link and then following it make him scum? Or does it make him town?
I'm going with vote: gkrieg.
Interestingly enough, RR has actually been following a lot of the points in that link.
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Vote Count 1.3
RR (2): EgorK, ss
ss (1): Awaclus
EFHW (3): Teproc, gkrieg, ADK
WW (1): ashersky
hydrad (3): RR, Xerxes, WW
gkrieg (1): EFHW
Not Voting (2): faust, hydrad
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
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He has said one other thing:
I would be for the semi-mass claim. Partially because I've never been in a game where we did it, and because I think it is a good idea.
Don't really know what to make of this one either way.
Oh, and an RVS vote for me.
vote: EFHW because of that one time.
Here is the post I was referring to earlier:
One of the points on that list is WIFOM. Does RR posting this link and then following it make him scum? Or does it make him town?
I'm going with vote: gkrieg.
Interestingly enough, RR has actually been following a lot of the points in that link.
I hope you're joking. Do you think I would provide the link to the thing I was doing as scum? I mean, come on! Can I have a tiny bit of credit?
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It's not unreasonable to think that someone suggested you do this in your scum QT.
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It's not unreasonable to think that someone suggested you do this in your scum QT.
I suppose it isn't. But this uncertainty gkreig is producing is bad news.
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This is why I didn't want to make a case. You change one thing in your developing meta and bam, you're a suspect.
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I hope you're joking. Do you think I would provide the link to the thing I was doing as scum?
Well, I think you totally would.
Vote: RR
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Why are we taking this Umbrage thing seriously ? Evne if eveyrthin he said was true he was talking about the mafiascum meta at a specific time, which is very different from the f.ds meta.
Slight town points to RR for bringing it up, because town!RR is more liekl to be scouring mafiascum for finding tricks to catch scum. There aren't any though, you just have to get people's meta and adjust accordingly. WHich means that this particular case applied to Hydrad is pretty horrible.
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I hope you're joking. Do you think I would provide the link to the thing I was doing as scum?
Well, I think you totally would.
Vote: RR
vote: Awaclus
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Why are we taking this Umbrage thing seriously ? Evne if eveyrthin he said was true he was talking about the mafiascum meta at a specific time, which is very different from the f.ds meta.
Slight town points to RR for bringing it up, because town!RR is more liekl to be scouring mafiascum for finding tricks to catch scum. There aren't any though, you just have to get people's meta and adjust accordingly. WHich means that this particular case applied to Hydrad is pretty horrible.
And yet Hydrad being extremely understanding of it and encouraging RR not to be upset "when he flips town" is very scummy.
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Why are we taking this Umbrage thing seriously ? Evne if eveyrthin he said was true he was talking about the mafiascum meta at a specific time, which is very different from the f.ds meta.
Slight town points to RR for bringing it up, because town!RR is more liekl to be scouring mafiascum for finding tricks to catch scum. There aren't any though, you just have to get people's meta and adjust accordingly. WHich means that this particular case applied to Hydrad is pretty horrible.
I was scouring Mafia scum so that I could make more jokes about being a Lyncher or Gladiator and such, but thanks for the points!
And that article is from 2012, I should've thought about that. I still like my case, but it won't take off after this.
PPE
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Why are we taking this Umbrage thing seriously ? Evne if eveyrthin he said was true he was talking about the mafiascum meta at a specific time, which is very different from the f.ds meta.
Slight town points to RR for bringing it up, because town!RR is more liekl to be scouring mafiascum for finding tricks to catch scum. There aren't any though, you just have to get people's meta and adjust accordingly. WHich means that this particular case applied to Hydrad is pretty horrible.
And yet Hydrad being extremely understanding of it and encouraging RR not to be upset "when he flips town" is very scummy.
You're right actually. He also complimented me on my case on him in marvel Heroes, maybe it's a thing he does as scum.
vote: Hydrad
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I'm wondering about gkrieg. He usually weighs in more, and also more thoughtfully. His comment about Umbrage's list seemed "safe" b/c it had the article "speaking" with him. You can feel unsupported as scum because you can't talk with your partners, and every post is a risk. I don't remember what else he has said. I'll go back and look before voting.
I've been lurking a lot this game. I just haven't gotten into it yet. I feel like we have done some theory discussion and we are still in RVS, so I haven't been too interested. I've also been busy IRL and on the forum doing survivor and playing league matches. I'll get more into this tonight.
PPE
I don't know. I just always take "I can't get into it" and "too much theory" as pretty weak explanations. Almost everyone has voted. Some of those are RVS votes, but there's already been a claim and discussion of cases, in addition to theory. I'll look forward to reading more as you get more engaged so I can get a better sense of where you are coming from.
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This is why I didn't want to make a case. You change one thing in your developing meta and bam, you're a suspect.
It's not about you! This is how games go. We have 13 players, and you are one of them. Just make your contributions and don't fret about what we think of you. We like you, you say good things. Sometimes you will be wrong, and sometimes you will be right and no one will listen to you. Sometimes people will act all annoyed, and it's part of their scum act. You've been accepted as a serious player, so go easy on the self-deprecating comments. It makes it very hard to consider your points.
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This is why I didn't want to make a case. You change one thing in your developing meta and bam, you're a suspect.
It's not about you! This is how games go. We have 13 players, and you are one of them. Just make your contributions and don't fret about what we think of you. We like you, you say good things. Sometimes you will be wrong, and sometimes you will be right and no one will listen to you. Sometimes people will act all annoyed, and it's part of their scum act. You've been accepted as a serious player, so go easy on the self-deprecating comments. It makes it very hard to consider your points.
You know what? I pretty much agree with you here, except for the 'you've been accepted as a serious player' line.
Thanks.
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Why are we taking this Umbrage thing seriously ? Evne if eveyrthin he said was true he was talking about the mafiascum meta at a specific time, which is very different from the f.ds meta.
Slight town points to RR for bringing it up, because town!RR is more liekl to be scouring mafiascum for finding tricks to catch scum. There aren't any though, you just have to get people's meta and adjust accordingly. WHich means that this particular case applied to Hydrad is pretty horrible.
I thought it applied pretty well to f.ds mafia.
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Why are we taking this Umbrage thing seriously ? Evne if eveyrthin he said was true he was talking about the mafiascum meta at a specific time, which is very different from the f.ds meta.
Slight town points to RR for bringing it up, because town!RR is more liekl to be scouring mafiascum for finding tricks to catch scum. There aren't any though, you just have to get people's meta and adjust accordingly. WHich means that this particular case applied to Hydrad is pretty horrible.
I thought it applied pretty well to f.ds mafia.
I agree with this. I don't feel like the meta here is different enough that some of those points don't apply
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I hope you're joking. Do you think I would provide the link to the thing I was doing as scum?
Well, I think you totally would.
Vote: RR
vote: Awaclus
I agree Awaclus is wrong here, why does that merit a vote?
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It's not unreasonable to think that someone suggested you do this in your scum QT.
You know, this really happens much less than people suggest it does. I mean, it's possible, but who do you think would do that?
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I hope you're joking. Do you think I would provide the link to the thing I was doing as scum?
Well, I think you totally would.
Vote: RR
vote: Awaclus
I agree Awaclus is wrong here, why does that merit a vote?
Awaclus explaining his vote is a scumtell.
Vote: Awaclus
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Back to the semi-mass claim.
In favor:
faust, Teproc, gkrieg13, Roadrunner, Hydrad
On the fence:
ADK, Xerxes
Opposed:
silverspawn, EFHW
No opinion voiced:
WW, Egor, ashersky, Awaclus
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I would like the guys in the last category to weigh in.
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This is why I didn't want to make a case. You change one thing in your developing meta and bam, you're a suspect.
It's not about you! This is how games go. We have 13 players, and you are one of them. Just make your contributions and don't fret about what we think of you. We like you, you say good things. Sometimes you will be wrong, and sometimes you will be right and no one will listen to you. Sometimes people will act all annoyed, and it's part of their scum act. You've been accepted as a serious player, so go easy on the self-deprecating comments. It makes it very hard to consider your points.
You know what? I pretty much agree with you here, except for the 'you've been accepted as a serious player' line.
Thanks.
The fact that you made that post gives you points in my eyes. And makes me think you are town here. I'm not convinced that Hydrad is scum but could definitely vote for him. I think I said all this before but man it's been like a whole 24 hours since I looked at this game or something.
I am in favor of the semi-mass claim, I have decided.
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I think I am opposed.
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ah, RR is obv!town again. that is good.
Hydrad I don't know.
uh vote: WW
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For real real?
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ah, RR is obv!town again. that is good.
Hydrad I don't know.
uh vote: WW
Interesting. Why?
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honestly, no idea.
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honestly, no idea.
How do you feel about his claim?
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oh he was the one who claimed. right.
well, I don't think claiming was good. but I do probably give it town points.
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oh he was the one who claimed. right.
well, I don't think claiming was good. but I do probably give it town points.
Seems like you are being pretty careless with your vote on WW if you don't even remember his claim.
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So where is ashersky? It's not like him to be so quiet.
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Where is Hydrad? I actually want to hear from him, he is very hard to read when he never posts.
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Where is Hydrad? I actually want to hear from him, he is very hard to read when he never posts.
Oh hi! Apologies. I felt like I had a burst of posting so I was feeling like ahha I don't need to post for a bit because I was active! But I guess those posts wern't really much content and I still have to post more. lets see what I can do.
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honestly, no idea.
you get scum points for this. I feel like town!ss doesn't really do that. But I could be totally wrong about that.
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So where is ashersky? It's not like him to be so quiet.
He gets scum points too! your all scum!
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Handing out scum reads like candy seems scummy to me, but I should probably just drop the Hydrad thing. I think 'tunneling' is where you constantly go after one person, right? It seems counterproductive, so I will drop it and move on. Unless Hydrad seems scummy to you, too.
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Handing out scum reads like candy seems scummy to me, but I should probably just drop the Hydrad thing. I think 'tunneling' is where you constantly go after one person, right? It seems counterproductive, so I will drop it and move on. Unless Hydrad seems scummy to you, too.
But see this is why building cases can still be good. Because even if your wrong here we got info from how many others are trying to lynch me also. And from that it should help us find scum a bit easier also! wooo
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Vote Count 1.4
RR (2): EgorK, Awaclus
EFHW (2): gkrieg, ADK
WW (2): ashersky, ss
hydrad (4): RR, Xerxes, WW, Teproc
gkrieg (1): EFHW
Awaclus (1): faust
Not Voting (1): hydrad
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day1 will end Monday, January 18 at 8:00 am forum time.
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Oh I'm not voting?
Vote: ss
oh hey both my scum reads are on WW.
that makes WW even more towny.
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What even is Hydrad?
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What even is Hydrad?
Even I don't know.
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Hydrad seems a lot more chatty than he normally does. I'll have to go back and look if he does that as town or as scum.
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Hydrad seems a lot more chatty than he normally does. I'll have to go back and look if he does that as town or as scum.
Obviously as town. Nah its more day 1 stuff. Usually i'm chatty during RVS style things. Although this game we are out of RVS already so who knows.
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Yeah I like vote: Hydrad
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Yeah I like vote: Hydrad
>:(
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I would vote Hydrad. But I do not want to end the game. And seeing how ash is in the background, I would not be a bit surprised if he hammered once Hydrad is at L-1.
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I would vote Hydrad. But I do not want to end the game. And seeing how ash is in the background, I would not be a bit surprised if he hammered once Hydrad is at L-1.
oh? interesting. I feel your usually the one that would defend me for day 1 wagons...
are you scum also?
oh man a faust/ss/asher team. that would be scary
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I would vote Hydrad. But I do not want to end the gameday. And seeing how ash is in the background, I would not be a bit surprised if he hammered once Hydrad is at L-1.
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Eh, I don't think I'd hammer. Maybe I would. Dunno.
I think I'm anti-PR claim at this point if we don't have a specific lying policy in place to WIFOM scum with.
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This is a pretty odd attitude from Hydrad.
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Eh, I don't think I'd hammer. Maybe I would. Dunno.
I think I'm anti-PR claim at this point if we don't have a specific lying policy in place to WIFOM scum with.
Then we would be WIFOMing ourselves, too.
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This is a pretty odd attitude from Hydrad.
But against his wincon if he is scum.
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Eh, I don't think I'd hammer. Maybe I would. Dunno.
I think I'm anti-PR claim at this point if we don't have a specific lying policy in place to WIFOM scum with.
Then we would be WIFOMing ourselves, too.
True.
I guess I'm just anti the plan, then. I'm trying to see some benefit worth the risk. Here's what I see:
--scum gets a pool of players to NK. We're saving them the PR hunting part. Past games have now shown that mafia loves to PR hunt with NKs, unless there is an obviously strong townread to remove.
--protective roles get a pool of targets. Somewhat protects about point 1, but strongman beats this.
--we might have too many claims?
That's it. Too many claims and we try to figure out the liar and maybe lynch a PR. Not enough claims and we probably have all honest PRs but they die at night, even though they are "ICs" and help us POE.
I'm not see a lot of benefit here.
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Basically I'm saying that PR/Not PR claiming is far more skippable than you think, given how short life is.
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The downside of not having the plan is that we are going to be scrambling when, inevitably, people claim PRs at L-1.
Lynching PRs is pretty horrible, which means town is incentivized to not lynch scummy people who claim PRs, which means scum is incentivized to claim PRs in desperate situation. Which then means WIFOM etc. but it remains that having people commit before being under pressure would be nice.
It does mean our PRs are going to die, quickly, but there's a very real degree of risk to that for scum.
Like,if we only got three PRs this game, the plan probably loses the game on the spot. Scum lets WW alive because who cares about vigs, kills and roleblocks the other two and we're done.
Maybe I'm against the plan after all.
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It's good if we rolled 5 PRs, horrible if we rolled 3. If we rolled 4 we get a first good night but it's all downhill from there, so you better catch scum on night 1... nah it's too risky, count me as against.
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Like,if we only got three PRs this game, the plan probably loses the game on the spot. Scum lets WW alive because who cares about vigs, kills and roleblocks the other two and we're done.
Maybe I'm against the plan after all.
It is insanity to assume that we could not win the game without PRs...
If three PRs, we are left with a 10-player pool. We can get like 5 kills in that pool in before we lose. One should assume that it's possible to kill 1 scum in 5 kills.
I won't deny that this is the worst-case scenario. However, scum does not know which scenario we're in, so I very much doubt they would all claim VT.
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Vote: Hydrad L-1
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Well yeah i don't literally mean "game over", but if you're doing a plan to protect PR shots in which all our PRs die, then it's a bad plan.
In order for this plan to be good, it needs to be better than "don't lynch people who claim PR at L-1", and right now it doesn't look like it is.
Not that the above is that great either, but it's where I suspect we'll end up in the first few days anyway.
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Vote Count 1.5
RR (2): EgorK, Awaclus
EFHW (1): gkrieg
WW (2): ashersky, ss
hydrad (6): RR, Xerxes, WW, Teproc, ADK, faust (L-1)
gkrieg (1): EFHW
ss (1): Hydrad
Not Voting (0):
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day1 will end Monday, January 18 at 8:00 am forum time.
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vote: hydrad
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Also, that wagon looks awesome. WW, Tep, ADK, faust, and me? Cray-cray.
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Also, WW, don't shoot tonight. It'll burn a shot even if you are are blocked by scum, which is very bad for town.
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Most wagons would have looked that way on day 1 in this game, this is a pretty nice line-up.
Doesn't mean we're right... tentatively feel good about this though. Don't like the hammer much though.
PPE : Agreed.
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Well, it's was probably a scummy hammer, regardless of my alignment.
Also, RB in half the setups based on # of shots? Seems sort of crap for the scum team.
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I actually think only one scum would be bussing here, at most. It's early, no one would really expect a lynch to happen, no urgency to be on the wagon.
PPS with the fake vote due to fear of hammer is probably scummiest looking here.
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Well, it's was probably a scummy hammer, regardless of Hydrad's alignment.
FTFY.
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I like awaclus as the other partner.
Hydrad - Awaclus - PPS - SS scumteam.
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if hydrad flips town I'm policy voting ash next day until he's lynched. the line has to be drawn somewhere.
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Well, it's was probably a scummy hammer, regardless of Hydrad or the hammerer's alignment.
FTFY.
FTFFY.
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I actually think only one scum would be bussing here, at most. It's early, no one would really expect a lynch to happen, no urgency to be on the wagon.
PPS with the fake vote due to fear of hammer is probably scummiest looking here.
One half of this post looks like it's in the right game, the other... not so much.
PPE : ash, PPS is not in this game.
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if hydrad flips town I'm policy voting ash next day until he's lynched. the line has to be drawn somewhere.
The line for what? The getting rid of amazing players line? The getting rid of players who can always spot scum!ss in a game line?
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I actually think only one scum would be bussing here, at most. It's early, no one would really expect a lynch to happen, no urgency to be on the wagon.
PPS with the fake vote due to fear of hammer is probably scummiest looking here.
One half of this post looks like it's in the right game, the other... not so much.
PPE : ash, PPS is not in this game.
Oh. That helps with my scumteam prediction, then.
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I would vote Hydrad. But I do not want to end the game. And seeing how ash is in the background, I would not be a bit surprised if he hammered once Hydrad is at L-1.
Oh, it was faust who said that. And he really did vote.
So town points there.
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if hydrad flips town I'm policy voting ash next day until he's lynched. the line has to be drawn somewhere.
The line for what? The getting rid of amazing players line? The getting rid of players who can always spot scum!ss in a game line?
By that standard, WW can always spot scum!Awaclus too.
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I would vote Hydrad. But I do not want to end the game. And seeing how ash is in the background, I would not be a bit surprised if he hammered once Hydrad is at L-1.
Oh, it was faust who said that. And he really did vote.
So town points there.
Assuming hydrad is scum, that is. Scum!faust would volley that hammer my way every day of the week and twice on Sundays, given how short life is.
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if hydrad flips town I'm policy voting ash next day until he's lynched. the line has to be drawn somewhere.
The line for what? The getting rid of amazing players line? The getting rid of players who can always spot scum!ss in a game line?
By that standard, WW can always spot scum!Awaclus too.
The bolded portion was sarcasm.
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if hydrad flips town I'm policy voting ash next day until he's lynched. the line has to be drawn somewhere.
The lack of capitalization is odd here from ss.
Are you on phone? Or scum?
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if hydrad flips town I'm policy voting ash next day until he's lynched. the line has to be drawn somewhere.
The line for what? The getting rid of amazing players line? The getting rid of players who can always spot scum!ss in a game line?
By that standard, WW can always spot scum!Awaclus too.
Does WW read Awaclus really well, actually?
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Also, I somehow missed all of posts 250-254 except the vote.
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Like,if we only got three PRs this game, the plan probably loses the game on the spot. Scum lets WW alive because who cares about vigs, kills and roleblocks the other two and we're done.
Maybe I'm against the plan after all.
It is insanity to assume that we could not win the game without PRs...
If three PRs, we are left with a 10-player pool. We can get like 5 kills in that pool in before we lose. One should assume that it's possible to kill 1 scum in 5 kills.
I won't deny that this is the worst-case scenario. However, scum does not know which scenario we're in, so I very much doubt they would all claim VT.
This is...crazy? I'm not convinced the worst-case scenario isn't so bad.
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WW always thinks Awaclus is scum, just like you always think silver is scum.
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WW always thinks Awaclus is scum, just like you always think silver is scum.
I don't always think ss is...okay, maybe I do.
But I don't always KNOW ss is scum, like I did that one game.
In all seriousness, there is a town!ss that we've seen, and maybe ss is actively trying not to look like that to help his scum meta in the long term. When he first started, he was so easy to catch as town -- like RR easy.
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Final Day1 Vote Count
RR (2): EgorK, Awaclus
EFHW (1): gkrieg
WW (1): ss
hydrad (7): RR, Xerxes, WW, Teproc, ADK, faust, ashersky
gkrieg (1): EFHW
ss (1): Hydrad
Not Voting (0):
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Hydrad has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie
Night1 Begins Now. Night1 will last 48 hours, Night Actions due in 36 hours. Night actions due via either PM or via Private QT by 7:00 pm forum time 1/14/16. Night1 will end 7:00 am forum 1/15/16.
Thread Locked!
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Night action deadline has passed. Night will continue for 12 more hours.
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Day2 Starts Now!
Faust died during the night. He was a Vanilla Townie.
Vote Count 2.0
Not Voting (11): RR, ADK, gkrieg, Xerxes, Awaclus, ss, EgorK, EFHW, ashersky, WW, Teproc
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day2 will last for 7 days and end January 22, 2016 at 8:00 am forum time.
Thread Unlocked!
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Not surprised at all.
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vote: XP
I have a PR -- and I caught him.
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I'm dead today, I guess. I can sheep someone who I think is town, get policy lynched or lurk. But I am not accusing anyone today. I will talk more at 12:00 Forum Time. But yeah, I suck. I know.
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vote: XP
I have a PR -- and I caught him.
Interesting. Going to give us any more?
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Vote: XP
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vote: XP
I have a PR -- and I caught him.
I think we need more than that.
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I'm dead today, I guess. I can sheep someone who I think is town, get policy lynched or lurk. But I am not accusing anyone today. I will talk more at 12:00 Forum Time. But yeah, I suck. I know.
What are you even talking about ?
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vote: XP
I have a PR -- and I caught him.
I think we need more than that.
I investigated him.
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vote: XP
I have a PR -- and I caught him.
I think we need more than that.
I investigated him.
Do you mean Cop or is this a cheeky answer ?
In any case, vote: ash
I have no particular information except that fakeclaiming a guilty result here is exactly what I expect scum!ash to do.
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vote: XP
I have a PR -- and I caught him.
I think we need more than that.
I investigated him.
Do you mean Cop or is this a cheeky answer ?
In any case, vote: ash
I have no particular information except that fakeclaiming a guilty result here is exactly what I expect scum!ash to do.
Not a cheeky answer. Why would I fakeclaim a guilty result here?
Any why on XP?
I investigated XP, he's scum, the end.
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And ash's hammer here is a classic scum!ash move too. He does like hammering as town, yeah, but town!ash isn't antitown enough to do this in a setup that heavily punishes lynching PRs.
He's doing SuperMario!ash. In that game he got away with the most scummy things because he was too scummy to be scum, ended up a flawless scum victory I think.
PPE : Why not ? Maybe he's your partner, even. It's a weird investigation target by the way, why did you "investigate" him ?
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You would fakeclaim a guilty result here because
a) you know you're a likely lynch after that hammer.
b) many people here werein Marvel Heroes, in which scum fakeclaimed a guilty result on day 2, and you clearly said you thought it was a bad idea, so you're expecting us to believe you'd never do it
c) you have this theory that your scumteams do well when you get lynched early.
d) another one I'll talka about later, once XP has responded to this
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So you are claiming Cop specifically ?
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You would fakeclaim a guilty result here because
a) you know you're a likely lynch after that hammer.
b) many people here werein Marvel Heroes, in which scum fakeclaimed a guilty result on day 2, and you clearly said you thought it was a bad idea, so you're expecting us to believe you'd never do it
c) you have this theory that your scumteams do well when you get lynched early.
d) another one I'll talka about later, once XP has responded to this
Dude, if you think I was worried I'd get lynched for the D1 hammer, you have been replaced by a clone and are not the real Teproc.
Sometimes it is this easy. If you want to see if you can get the town to follow your lead and lynch a claimed cop, go ahead. If that's what f.ds mafia decides is the way to go, fine, although that seems ridiculously stupid.
We have a game with investigators, sometimes we just catch people. That's how this game works.
This is a simple yes/no vote. All players can decide to:
A) Lynch the guy with a guilty result on him, assuming the cop isn't lying. If he is, you lynch the cop the next day. (Note: this is the normal way of playing the game.)
B) Lynch the cop because why the hell not?
A = vote for XP.
B = vote for ashersky.
Literally, people should only post votes and nothing else until the day is over.
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Vote Count 2.1
XP (2): ashersky, EgorK
ashersky (1): Teproc
Not Voting (8): RR, ADK, gkrieg, Xerxes, Awaclus, ss, EFHW, WW
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day2 will last for 7 days and end January 22, 2016 at 8:00 am forum time.
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I'd like to know how certain ash thinks his result is, given the setup. Answering with a stupid meme will cause me to vote for you.
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You"re acting as if lynching the Cop first is always dumb, but it really isn't if you the think the Cop is very likely to be fakeclaiming.
People should not "post votes and nothing else", that's antitown, the whole point of these things is to have people take stances so that we can look back at them later and judge them based on flips. You know this, don't act as if you didn't.
Your hammer was scummy and you know it. And you know I'm not someone who goes for the typical "ash is being ash" lynches. My first thing was going to be a vote for you wihtout this, and I'm guessing you, being the savvy player you are, saw the pressure coming and decide to preempt it with a claim.
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I'd like to know how certain ash thinks his result is, given the setup. Answering with a stupid meme will cause me to vote for you.
I've never posted a meme in my life.
I'm very certain.
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The hammer was not scummy. Tell me how it was scummy.
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The hammer was not scummy. Tell me how it was scummy.
We are in a setup in which lynching PRs bears a heavy cost for scum. We discussed this at some lenght during day 1. Hammering someone without leaving him a chance to claim is tremendously anti-town.
Besides, you WIFOMed earlier about wanting to hammer or not. That sounded like town!ash alright, but town!ash doesn't hammer there. THat's a caricature of what your town self is like, you're simply not that anti-town a player. The most anti-town you get when you are town is when you self-vote, but you don't do overt quickhammers after WIFOMing on them.
And now I'll leave you guys to it, because me discussing this with ash doesn't lead us anywhere.
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a heavy cost for town*
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a heavy cost for town*
scumslip!
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Seriously though, the only reason the ever rational Teproc goes after me like this is because a partner just got caught and he needs to keep him alive.
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vote: XP
I plan on getting more into this game later today.
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Hmm. vote: Ashersky
Ash is always confusing - I'm not sure why he's doing this, but I think it works out well for us overall. I read the setup, and the chance of a bus driver targeting me is pretty low, so tomorrow can be an auto-lynch even if I'm lynched today.
I'm not sure whether to claim, but I'm leaning toward yes. Thoughts about that?
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Vote Count 2.2
XP (3): ashersky, EgorK, gkrieg
ashersky (2): Teproc, XP
Not Voting (6): RR, ADK, Awaclus, ss, EFHW, WW
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day2 will last for 7 days and end January 22, 2016 at 8:00 am forum time.
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Okay, I know I said I wouldn't talk because I just need to crawl in a corner and die, but this is honestly stupid.
Ash seems really scummy (not that I know, cause my reads are Grade-A trash) especially with the pick A or B crap. You're not confirmed town. You'd like to think you are, but you're not. You've been a very scummy 'cop,' and Teproc makes good points. But I'm not voting until we hear from Xerxes.
PPE
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PPE was nine but only one showed up.
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PPE was one and I forgot to read the newest page before I posted :(
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Okay, I know I said I wouldn't talk because I just need to crawl in a corner and die, but this is honestly stupid.
Ash seems really scummy (not that I know, cause my reads are Grade-A trash) especially with the pick A or B crap. You're not confirmed town. You'd like to think you are, but you're not. You've been a very scummy 'cop,' and Teproc makes good points. But I'm not voting until we hear from Xerxes.
PPE
You have now heard from me. What more do you want to hear? I can talk about whatever, but I'm busy and I don't want to waste time on something nobody will read.
PPE 2
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The hammer was not scummy. Tell me how it was scummy.
It was the shift from this, where you are very non-committal and seemingly uninspired about a Hydrad lynch:
Eh, I don't think I'd hammer. Maybe I would. Dunno.
I think I'm anti-PR claim at this point if we don't have a specific lying policy in place to WIFOM scum with.
to this, where you take Hydrad's guilt as a given and start speculating about other people with the given that Hydrad would flip scum:
I actually think only one scum would be bussing here, at most. It's early, no one would really expect a lynch to happen, no urgency to be on the wagon.
PPS with the fake vote due to fear of hammer is probably scummiest looking here.
I like awaclus as the other partner.
Hydrad - Awaclus - PPS - SS scumteam.
I would vote Hydrad. But I do not want to end the game. And seeing how ash is in the background, I would not be a bit surprised if he hammered once Hydrad is at L-1.
Oh, it was faust who said that. And he really did vote.
So town points there.
My impression is that you are being "mistakenly certain" in order to seem towny.
PPE: a bunch of posts I didn't read yet
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Okay, I know I said I wouldn't talk because I just need to crawl in a corner and die, but this is honestly stupid.
Ash seems really scummy (not that I know, cause my reads are Grade-A trash) especially with the pick A or B crap. You're not confirmed town. You'd like to think you are, but you're not. You've been a very scummy 'cop,' and Teproc makes good points. But I'm not voting until we hear from Xerxes.
PPE
You have now heard from me. What more do you want to hear? I can talk about whatever, but I'm busy and I don't want to waste time on something nobody will read.
PPE 2
I'd sort of like to hear a claim, but maybe not until someone else votes for you. You mentioned redirection, I wonder what Ashersky thinks about that...
PPE
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Has ashersky answered Teproc's question about why he chose to investigate XP? I know he has evaded the one about what role he had that allowed him to investigate.
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vote: ashersky
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Has ashersky answered Teproc's question about why he chose to investigate XP? I know he has evaded the one about what role he had that allowed him to investigate.
Quiet, impossible to read (to me).
vote: ashersky
I'm done with you all. Maybe you'll listen when you see me flip green.
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Also, I'd bet any amount of money XP claims a PR, and one that could scum OR town, just to cover all bases while not proving anything whatsoever.
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Sigh...
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Hmm. vote: Ashersky
Ash is always confusing - I'm not sure why he's doing this, but I think it works out well for us overall. I read the setup, and the chance of a bus driver targeting me is pretty low, so tomorrow can be an auto-lynch even if I'm lynched today.
I'm not sure whether to claim, but I'm leaning toward yes. Thoughts about that?
Also, this post moves my confidence from whatever it was to over 100%. Just so you know. Nothing against you man, and you didn't do or say anything scummy in this post. Except for scumslipping (but not really, but sort of, to me because of my result).
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Sigh...
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Okay, I know I said I wouldn't talk because I just need to crawl in a corner and die, but this is honestly stupid.
Is this for real? I mean, you seem like a more confident person than this. You fended off yuma for days. I've seen how you play Dominion. Who even implied that you shouldn't talk?
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Hmm. vote: Ashersky
Ash is always confusing - I'm not sure why he's doing this, but I think it works out well for us overall. I read the setup, and the chance of a bus driver targeting me is pretty low, so tomorrow can be an auto-lynch even if I'm lynched today.
I'm not sure whether to claim, but I'm leaning toward yes. Thoughts about that?
Also, this post moves my confidence from whatever it was to over 100%. Just so you know. Nothing against you man, and you didn't do or say anything scummy in this post. Except for scumslipping (but not really, but sort of, to me because of my result).
spell it out.
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The hammer was not scummy. Tell me how it was scummy.
It was the shift from this, where you are very non-committal and seemingly uninspired about a Hydrad lynch:
Eh, I don't think I'd hammer. Maybe I would. Dunno.
I think I'm anti-PR claim at this point if we don't have a specific lying policy in place to WIFOM scum with.
to this, where you take Hydrad's guilt as a given and start speculating about other people with the given that Hydrad would flip scum:
I actually think only one scum would be bussing here, at most. It's early, no one would really expect a lynch to happen, no urgency to be on the wagon.
PPS with the fake vote due to fear of hammer is probably scummiest looking here.
I like awaclus as the other partner.
Hydrad - Awaclus - PPS - SS scumteam.
I would vote Hydrad. But I do not want to end the game. And seeing how ash is in the background, I would not be a bit surprised if he hammered once Hydrad is at L-1.
Oh, it was faust who said that. And he really did vote.
So town points there.
My impression is that you are being "mistakenly certain" in order to seem towny.
PPE: a bunch of posts I didn't read yet
I'll reply to this, btw, as it was a good post and has nothing to do with the current argument.
The first post (where I was wishy-washy about hammering) was a big pile of "of course I'll hammer" stool. The IMPORTANT part of that post is being ignored -- that I was anti-PR claim.
The rest (about being sure Hydrad was scum) was hyperbole.
The confusion about PPS was real. That was just a game mix-up.
If I was trying to "seem towny" it seems I failed, right? Do I suck that badly? Or maybe it's a mistaken hypothesis. It's one or the other, you decide which one is more likely.
I'm not sure I "refuted" anything you said -- if you want to see it as scummy, that's cool. I think the lynch worked out just fine -- just a VT, we got rid of faust on the wagon due to him being town which is an auto-NK, and we have a pretty good base of info for wagon analysis.
I don't regret it, and I'm sure Hydrad has no hard feelings about it.
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Hmm. vote: Ashersky
Ash is always confusing - I'm not sure why he's doing this, but I think it works out well for us overall. I read the setup, and the chance of a bus driver targeting me is pretty low, so tomorrow can be an auto-lynch even if I'm lynched today.
I'm not sure whether to claim, but I'm leaning toward yes. Thoughts about that?
I T
Also, this post moves my confidence from whatever it was to over 100%. Just so you know. Nothing against you man, and you didn't do or say anything scummy in this post. Except for scumslipping (but not really, but sort of, to me because of my result).
spell it out.
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Hmm. vote: Ashersky
Ash is always confusing - I'm not sure why he's doing this, but I think it works out well for us overall. I read the setup, and the chance of a bus driver targeting me is pretty low, so tomorrow can be an auto-lynch even if I'm lynched today.
I'm not sure whether to claim, but I'm leaning toward yes. Thoughts about that?
Also, this post moves my confidence from whatever it was to over 100%. Just so you know. Nothing against you man, and you didn't do or say anything scummy in this post. Except for scumslipping (but not really, but sort of, to me because of my result).
spell it out.
Eye Tee.
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But really, spell what out?
That post makes it seem like he knows there's a bus driver. He's softclaiming PR already.
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Hmm. vote: Ashersky
Ash is always confusing - I'm not sure why he's doing this, but I think it works out well for us overall. I read the setup, and the chance of a bus driver targeting me is pretty low, so tomorrow can be an auto-lynch even if I'm lynched today.
I'm not sure whether to claim, but I'm leaning toward yes. Thoughts about that?
Don't claim unless you get to L-1.
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But really, spell what out?
That post makes it seem like he knows there's a bus driver. He's softclaiming PR already.
Your post makes it sound like you know more than guilty/not guilty.
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But really, spell what out?
That post makes it seem like he knows there's a bus driver. He's softclaiming PR already.
He's saying you could have gotten an incorrect result if a bus driver had caused someone else to be investigated instead of him. Far-fetched, yes, but not a scumslip or soft-claim.
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vote: xp
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We should not be discussing what we think anyone may or may not be softclaiming anyway. ash and XP need to both stop beating around the bush. Well I don't care about ash so much actually, but I think XP needs to claim at this point.
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We have a claimed vig, right? If I'm lying, vig me.
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We have a claimed vig, right? If I'm lying, vig me.
Scum has about 5 billion ways to combat that. Again, something that was discussed on day 1.
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We have a claimed vig, right? If I'm lying, vig me.
Scum has about 5 billion ways to combat that. Again, something that was discussed on day 1.
I do think :
a) We will lynch one of you
b) if the one we lynch flips town, vigs should consider shooting. NOt necessarily shoot however, because there's WIFOM involving the bulletproof part of JOAT.
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1 town killed:1 scum killed is good for us, so while 0 town:1 scum is better, ash's claim does help town a lot more than it helps scum!ash. EXCEPT that if scum!ash thought it very likely he would be lynched, his claim does possibly get a townie killed, too.
Scum!ash would expect to be investigated after that hammer, so he would be worried about exposure. Have we heard from everyone today?
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vote: xp
Can you share your reasoning? You seemed skeptical earlier.
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I'm not worried about anything.
Plus, would I have used cop-immune as scum?
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I'm not worried about anything.
Plus, would I have used cop-immune as scum?
wouldn't*
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vote: xp
Can you share your reasoning? You seemed skeptical earlier.
Xp posted.
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The rest (about being sure Hydrad was scum) was hyperbole.
The confusion about PPS was real. That was just a game mix-up.
If I was trying to "seem towny" it seems I failed, right? Do I suck that badly? Or maybe it's a mistaken hypothesis. It's one or the other, you decide which one is more likely.
I'm not sure I "refuted" anything you said -- if you want to see it as scummy, that's cool. I think the lynch worked out just fine -- just a VT, we got rid of faust on the wagon due to him being town which is an auto-NK, and we have a pretty good base of info for wagon analysis.
I don't regret it, and I'm sure Hydrad has no hard feelings about it.
What was the purpose of the hyperbole, and what is your analysis of the wagon?
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Final Day1 Vote Count
RR (2): EgorK, Awaclus
EFHW (1): gkrieg
WW (1): ss
hydrad (7): RR, Xerxes, WW, Teproc, ADK, faust, ashersky
gkrieg (1): EFHW
ss (1): Hydrad
Not Voting (0):
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Hydrad has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie
Night1 Begins Now. Night1 will last 48 hours, Night Actions due in 36 hours. Night actions due via either PM or via Private QT by 7:00 pm forum time 1/14/16. Night1 will end 7:00 am forum 1/15/16.
Thread Locked!
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From my perspective...wagon is RR, XP, WW, Teproc, ADK for possible scum.
offwagon is EgorK, Awaclus, gkrieg, SS, EFHW
That's 50/50. I know XP is scum, I think the other two are off. It went too fast for an easy mislynch for scum.
Others will have other thoughts. It's a good split to have, though.
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vote: xp
Can you share your reasoning? You seemed skeptical earlier.
Xp posted.
Explain?
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You know what, I believe you. I do think you would have used cop-immune and I can see a reason for being vague about your role. If I'm wrong, then you are tomorrow's lynch. Checking the vote count.
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vote: xp. That's L-1. I'll be offline for several hours now. BTW, ashersky, how about unvoting?
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Um unvote please. ash isn't onxp right ?
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It's L-2 actually, we're fine. No one should vote for XP at this point though.
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Vote Count 2.3
XP (4): EgorK, gkrieg, ADK, EFHW (L-2)
ashersky (4): Teproc, XP, ss, ashersky (L-2)
Not Voting (3): RR, Awaclus, WW
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day2 will last for 7 days and end January 22, 2016 at 8:00 am forum time.
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unvote anyway. I'm confusing myself.
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Right, no one should vote at all really. I think we need full claims from both players. I don't care about the order much personally.
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I'm a rolecop, and I didn't target anyone last night. (this is why I wasn't worried about us running out of shots)
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I'm a rolecop, and I didn't target anyone last night. (this is why I wasn't worried about us running out of shots)
I'm a rolecop, you are a roleblocker. I win.
vote: XP
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That's L-1, I've full claimed now that's it's worth it.
Someone feel free to hammer.
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Huh. Interesting. Not exactly what I expected.
So... if ash is telling the trught, then why does XP claim this ? Aside from "to make you ask this question", I don't see it.
Because, there are four things ash could be there :
- Cop
- Watcher
- Tracker
- Rolecop
From scum!XP's PoV :
If ash is a Cop, XP wants to claim PR to make his lynch have a cost but that's about it.
If ash is a Watcher or a Tracker, XP wants to claim a PR that targeted faust (Rolecop, Doctor, Jailkeeper).
If ash is a Rolecop, XP wants to claim Roleblocker.
So it seems like he'd probably want to claim PR who targeted faust. Roleblocker actually would have worked and protected him from all angles : faust was somewhat scummy for the placement of his HYdrad vote... I mean it would have been relatively suspicious I guess. So he could have gone for "Rolecop whot targeted faust", that doesn't cover ash being a Rolecop which is fine because it was the less likely possibility anyway (ash seemed more confident than that).
So basically XP screwed up if he's scum.
Now, ash. Worth noting he claimed very, very fast after XP here. Less than a minute.
He can still claim Cop. Dicey because it makes it purely about reads, but it's something.
Tracker and Watcher are out obviously.
Rolecop works, though... yeah it's kind of the same as Cop.
I guess Cop is the best claim for scum!ash, but it's reasonable to go for the slightly less powerful role to look more convincing, less like he's daring you to mislynch a Cop ?
Yeah, it's still pretty easily an ash lynch here.
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Vote Count 2.4
XP (4): EgorK, gkrieg, ADK, ashersky (L-2)
ashersky (3): Teproc, XP, ss
Not Voting (4): RR, Awaclus, WW, EFHW
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day2 will last for 7 days and end January 22, 2016 at 8:00 am forum time.
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Obviously there's also the "they're both scum" option, but that doesn't really matter today.
And then there's the "they're both town and Bus Driver happened", but what scum team Bus Drives XP here ?
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Wait... why didn't you investigate WW... either of you, really ?
That either makes an IC or catches scum... and I don't think scum can prevent it any other way than roleblocking you, seems like a no-brainer no ?
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I'm good with this. One of them is lying, one or both is scum, we Lynch xp.
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I'm good with this. One of them is lying, one or both is scum, we Lynch xp.
Why XP though ? ash is so much scummier before the claim AND his claim is worse...
Like, not rolecopping WW is pretty hard to justify, but even moreso if you're going to use a shot on another player instead (XP). At least if you're not using a shot.... that's not great either, but ok. This reallyfeels like ash is a scum Rolecop who targeted XP.
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Vote: ash
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I'm not going to make a rushed decision.
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Okay, I know I said I wouldn't talk because I just need to crawl in a corner and die, but this is honestly stupid.
Is this for real? I mean, you seem like a more confident person than this. You fended off yuma for days. I've seen how you play Dominion. Who even implied that you shouldn't talk?
Okay, Harry Potter was different. I was scum and had nothing to lose. Dominion is different, too. I'm not going to explain why those are so different, that would be tough. But I will explain something else.
Okay, be me. Roadrunner. Still a noob at Mafia, still getting adjusted to everything. I have never, gone after a person before. Then I see Hydrad. Hydrad is mildly scummy. I see that, and what do I do? I blow up in his face and cause a lynch. I play right into scums' hands. So everything I thought I could read in Hydrad, that all goes away. It doesn't matter anymore, Hydrad is dead and it's my fault. No one said I 'shouldn't talk,' but I am not going to do the same thing again. I'm usually a good policy lynch, after day one, I fell out of my chair when no one voted for me. Granted, we have the Ashersky/Xerxes thing going on, but it really makes me feel bad for Hydraf. And myself, too.
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Teproc is 10000000000% scum.
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Ok, so
1) No one single person is responsible for a lynch. In fact if you look at the wagon, it's chockfull of veterans, some of which has to be town right ? So you're not alone there. This was the most confident I felt in a day 1 lynch in quite a long time actually, the flip did surprise me.
2) People get it wrong, all the time. All. The. Time. If you ever feel bad about getting it wrong, visit the stats page, take a look at the stats for most supposedly great town players. Except faust don't look at his stats, they're disgusting. But most others, go ahead. You'll see that very few people have been on more correct lynches than mislynches. Getting it wrong is part of the game.
3) Once you got it wrong, the only thing you can do is start again. Look at WW in Marvel Heroes : he had terrible reads most of the game, but he was right for the two final lynches and could have easily been MVP if not for an amazing other player whose name I forget right now.
4) Getting mislynched is part of the game. It's not pleasant, but no one's going to hold it agains anyone else, for the most part.
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Teproc is 10000000000% scum.
Is that more or less likely that liopoil's parents being aliens ?
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Huh. Interesting. Not exactly what I expected.
So... if ash is telling the trught, then why does XP claim this ? Aside from "to make you ask this question", I don't see it.
Because, there are four things ash could be there :
- Cop
- Watcher
- Tracker
- Rolecop
From scum!XP's PoV :
If ash is a Cop, XP wants to claim PR to make his lynch have a cost but that's about it.
If ash is a Watcher or a Tracker, XP wants to claim a PR that targeted faust (Rolecop, Doctor, Jailkeeper).
If ash is a Rolecop, XP wants to claim Roleblocker.
So it seems like he'd probably want to claim PR who targeted faust. Roleblocker actually would have worked and protected him from all angles : faust was somewhat scummy for the placement of his HYdrad vote... I mean it would have been relatively suspicious I guess. So he could have gone for "Rolecop whot targeted faust", that doesn't cover ash being a Rolecop which is fine because it was the less likely possibility anyway (ash seemed more confident than that).
So basically XP screwed up if he's scum.
Now, ash. Worth noting he claimed very, very fast after XP here. Less than a minute.
He can still claim Cop. Dicey because it makes it purely about reads, but it's something.
Tracker and Watcher are out obviously.
Rolecop works, though... yeah it's kind of the same as Cop.
I guess Cop is the best claim for scum!ash, but it's reasonable to go for the slightly less powerful role to look more convincing, less like he's daring you to mislynch a Cop ?
Yeah, it's still pretty easily an ash lynch here.
This is such a shitty, shitty post.
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Teproc is 10000000000% scum.
Is that more or less likely that liopoil's parents being aliens ?
More. Or less equal.
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I'm genuinely curious why that would be the case ?
PPE : The shitty post part, not the old reference no one else will get part.
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Okay, Teproc, I guess life goes on. Now I'm going to Vote: Ashersky. He's been a very, very scummy 'PR.'
PPE
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Think about the scum narrative Teproc is trying to paint for me. It's ridiculous. Why do I do this.
As for targets -- I know I brought 4 shots (most likely) so it's worth targeting. WW is literally the worst possible target for a town role cop -- so crazy confirmable it's a giant waste. Scum might, if a role cop exists.
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L-1 on ash by the way.
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I'm genuinely curious why that would be the case ?
PPE : The shitty post part, not the old reference no one else will get part.
Your XP thoughts were pretty good, and made good sense for why XP is scum. You basically showed why my claim is towny, then called it scummy. You committed to defending XP early and had to stay on me even though your own analysis showed XP is the better Lynch.
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I will hammer in the time it takes me to post this then post again just to spite you all.
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vote: ashersky
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XP - Teproc - Awalclus is my call here.
I'm incredibly disgusted with what the f.ds norm has become.
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I'm genuinely curious why that would be the case ?
PPE : The shitty post part, not the old reference no one else will get part.
Your XP thoughts were pretty good, and made good sense for why XP is scum. You basically showed why my claim is towny, then called it scummy. You committed to defending XP early and had to stay on me even though your own analysis showed XP is the better Lynch.
Um, well, I disagree... we'll see what other people think I suppose.
PPE : Well, I guess there we go. ash self-hammering... pretty null ? He's probably done it more as town, but self-hammering is only profitable as scum so... we'll see I suppose.
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Note to town PRs in the future--never claim, even if you catch scum. You'll just get lynched because that's what we fucking do now.
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Unvote
PPE
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Phew.
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Knowing you all, you'll let Teproc or someone convince you there was bus driving at work or something to ensure a scum flawless win. Fuck this is stupid as shit.
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Phew.
That doesn't work. ash is lynched.
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Yes, you lynched a town PR who caught scum because either you all hate my play style (which clearly works) or scum saved their partner.
Congratulations.
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Phew.
That doesn't work. ash is lynched.
Oh. I missed the vote on page 15.
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Shit. What else can I possibly do to be useful to town. Useful day one wagon, only hammered s vt, [b]caught scum[/b]. Nothing is enough for you all.
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I really need to quit playing and focus full time on game design and modding. There's clearly no place for me in the game as it is as a player.
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Fuck so frustrated I hate this
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Shit. What else can I possibly do to be useful to town. Useful day one wagon, only hammered s vt, [b]caught scum[/b]. Nothing is enough for you all.
We're just playing the game! There was probably scum on your wagon, I'm sure they're overjoyed that you're lynched (if you're town). I think like 3-4 scum are on your wagon. But man, try not to worry about it. We'lll get Xerxes tomorrow.
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I really need to quit playing and focus full time on game design and modding. There's clearly no place for me in the game as it is as a player.
Don't let people push your buttons so much.
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If you don't want to get lynched, maybe you should stop voting for yourself.
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3-4 scum out of the 3-man scum team? Dude. Impossible. Do not even think that way.
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I really need to quit playing and focus full time on game design and modding. There's clearly no place for me in the game as it is as a player.
Don't let people push your buttons so much.
What does this even mean? Don't get upset when I catch scum but people refuse to believe me just because my username is ashersky. That's not a button, that's bullshit.
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I think 90-93% of scum was on wagon.
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3-4 scum out of the 3-man scum team? Dude. Impossible. Do not even think that way.
4 scum in 13 players seems possible. Like 3 Mafia and 1 SK, or two Werewolves and 2 mafia, or three mafia and one Cultist.
PPE: Haven't looked at it, but it's probably ashersky shouting at Awaclus.
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I think 90-93% of scum was on wagon.
Vote: Awaclus
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I really need to quit playing and focus full time on game design and modding. There's clearly no place for me in the game as it is as a player.
Don't let people push your buttons so much.
What does this even mean? Don't get upset when I catch scum but people refuse to believe me just because my username is ashersky. That's not a button, that's bullshit.
I agree with you, and I believe you.
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If you don't want to get lynched, maybe you should stop voting for yourself.
One vote a Lynch does not make. I'm not lynched because of my vote. I'm lynched because of who I am. I would assume a XP's partners are happy I rolled the PR that caught them.
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If Ashersky is really fed up with us, he should make a bastard game describing exactly how he feels. Like an Ultra-Hated Bulletproof Cop, or a Mafia Goon with four votes.
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I really need to quit playing and focus full time on game design and modding. There's clearly no place for me in the game as it is as a player.
Don't let people push your buttons so much.
What does this even mean? Don't get upset when I catch scum but people refuse to believe me just because my username is ashersky. That's not a button, that's bullshit.
I agree with you, and I believe you.
Well, I'm lynched. If you still don't believe me (Teproc) you just have a ridiculous personal vendetta.
For the record: I'm a role cop, I targeted XP, got role blocker as my result. He's lying scum. Doesn't make him a bad guy, but he's caught.
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If Ashersky is really fed up with us, he should make a bastard game describing exactly how he feels. Like an Ultra-Hated Bulletproof Cop, or a Mafia Goon with four votes.
Go read my f.ds meta bastard game. I already did it. Plus, I hate bastard games.
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Did you get 'roleblocker' and your result or 'mafia roleblocker?' Or 'Cultist Roleblocker?'
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3-4 scum out of the 3-man scum team? Dude. Impossible. Do not even think that way.
4 scum in 13 players seems possible. Like 3 Mafia and 1 SK, or two Werewolves and 2 mafia, or three mafia and one Cultist.
PPE: Haven't looked at it, but it's probably ashersky shouting at Awaclus.
What the fuck man? READ THE SETUP BEFORE JOINING GAMES.
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If you don't want to get lynched, maybe you should stop voting for yourself.
One vote a Lynch does not make. I'm not lynched because of my vote. I'm lynched because of who I am. I would assume a XP's partners are happy I rolled the PR that caught them.
Well, you were quite undeniably lynched precisely because of your vote.
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I mean, if you hammer yourself every time you can, it shouldn't come as a surprise that you get lynched more often than other players who don't self-hammer at every opportunity, and thus, have a non-zero chance to actually survive being at L-1 without getting lynched.
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3-4 scum out of the 3-man scum team? Dude. Impossible. Do not even think that way.
4 scum in 13 players seems possible. Like 3 Mafia and 1 SK, or two Werewolves and 2 mafia, or three mafia and one Cultist.
PPE: Haven't looked at it, but it's probably ashersky shouting at Awaclus.
What the fuck man? READ THE SETUP BEFORE JOINING GAMES.
I stand corrected.
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I mean, if you hammer yourself every time you can, it shouldn't come as a surprise that you get lynched more often than other players who don't self-hammer at every opportunity, and thus, have a non-zero chance to actually survive being at L-1 without getting lynched.
I'm very certain if you read games, you will see that I have not hammered myself as often as people like to say.
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Who's on my wagon? Who's on XP? These should be important discussion points on D4 after you Lynch XP on D3.
Vig, don't waste your shot tonight's new XP. Kill Teproc just because you are nice.
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What am I even saying? Town has lost this game now. Faust is dead.
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I mean, if you hammer yourself every time you can, it shouldn't come as a surprise that you get lynched more often than other players who don't self-hammer at every opportunity, and thus, have a non-zero chance to actually survive being at L-1 without getting lynched.
I'm very certain if you read games, you will see that I have not hammered myself as often as people like to say.
You have done so in this game and the other recent one where you got to L-1. Judging by those two games, you have hammered yourself at least 90-93% more often than people think.
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Listen to ADK, if he's town. He's strong.
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I mean, if you hammer yourself every time you can, it shouldn't come as a surprise that you get lynched more often than other players who don't self-hammer at every opportunity, and thus, have a non-zero chance to actually survive being at L-1 without getting lynched.
I'm very certain if you read games, you will see that I have not hammered myself as often as people like to say.
You have done so in this game and the other recent one where you got to L-1. Judging by those two games, you have hammered yourself at least 90-93% more often than people think.
You are trolling. Does scum troll here? Probably.
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'This is a game and the main objective is to have fun.'
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Final Day2 Vote Count
XP (3): EgorK, gkrieg, ADK
ashersky (6): Teproc, XP, ss, Awaclus, RR, ashersky
Not Voting (2): WW, EFHW
With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.
ashersky has been lynched. He was a Town Rolecop.
Night2 will last for 48 hours. Night actions are due in 36 hours.
Thread Locked
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Day3 Starts Now!
ADK died during the Night. He was a Town Cop.
Vote Count 3.0
Not Voting: (9) Teproc, EFHW, RR, EgorK, Awaclus, Xerxes, ss, gkrieg, WW
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day3 will last 7 days and will end January 24, 2015 at noon forum time.
Thread Unlocked!
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Hi everyone.
Vote: Xerxes seems okay, but I want to hear from him one last time before he gets lynched.
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So what the hell guys?
I haven't read all of yesterday yet.
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Hi everyone.
Vote: Xerxes seems okay, but I want to hear from him one last time before he gets lynched.
Yeah, me too. Xerxes, who are your partners?
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Vote: XP
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Forgot this. Vote: XP
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Vote Count 3.1
Xerxes (3): RR, EgorK, Awaclus (L-2)
Not Voting: (6) Teproc, EFHW, Xerxes, ss, gkrieg, WW
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day3 will last 7 days and will end January 24, 2015 at noon forum time.
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vote: XP
Also need to look at ADK now.
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Yeah, we are lynching XP. Let's let everyone time to post though... I don't know that there's much to discuss yet, obviously we'll have to talk about how ash v XP went down, but I suppose it's good not to let scum now what we're thinking.
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I do have to say that quickhammering town into self-hammering into complaining is pretty ridiculous
nontheless, XP is confirmed scum. @gkrieg you probably want to unvote, otherwise he can self-hammer and we have a 5 minute day.
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So what the hell guys?
I haven't read all of yesterday yet.
I take it this means you didn't shoot ? You don't have to answer that I suppose, though it could prove relevant at some point.
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I do have to say that quickhammering town into self-hammering into complaining is pretty ridiculous
nontheless, XP is confirmed scum. @gkrieg you probably want to unvote, otherwise he can self-hammer and we have a 5 minute day.
Unvote good idea. But why was that gkreig's job? I'm helpful!
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unvote
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I do have to say that quickhammering town into self-hammering into complaining is pretty ridiculous
nontheless, XP is confirmed scum. @gkrieg you probably want to unvote, otherwise he can self-hammer and we have a 5 minute day.
Well, Bus Driver may or may not exist, so not confirmed confirmed. Close enough that we are lynching him obviously, but technically not confirmed.
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ADK presumably had a town result on night 1 ? Or a no result I suppose, we should try and see if he breadcrumbed that.
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That was a horrible lynch. I had just got back intending to go back to supporting ash, and the thread was locked. Maybe he could have waited a bit before killing himself? Both lynches so far have gotten themselves lynched by their attitudes.
You may gather from this that I am annoyed. And town needs to be more careful about lynching based on attitude.
I'm fine with lynch xp.
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unvote
Oh hey, it's that thing where our messages were sent right after each other so I didn't get the PPE warning.
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I didn't lynch ash based on attitude (or playstyle). I thought he was scum, genuinely. Obviously I'm much worse at reading him than I thought, but declaring his lynch to be orrible just because it turned out to be wrong is a pretty easy stance to take for someone who was on wagon... yeah you might have wanted to change your mind, but no one forced you to vote, now did they ?
ash was scummier than XP, and XP made a strange choice in his fakeclaim... not sure what we're supposed to do there.
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For scumhunting we need to take a look at who was on both wagons.
Final Day2 Vote Count
XP (3): EgorK, gkrieg, ADK
ashersky (6): Teproc, XP, ss, Awaclus, RR, ashersky
Not Voting (2): WW, EFHW
Final Day1 Vote Count
RR (2): EgorK, Awaclus
EFHW (1): gkrieg
WW (1): ss
hydrad (7): RR, Xerxes, WW, Teproc, ADK, faust, ashersky
gkrieg (1): EFHW
ss (1): Hydrad
XP is in pink b/c we don't know for sure yet that he is scum.
Teproc and RR are next on my list for lynching.
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Yeah I like vote: Hydrad
ADK's last post on day 1, putting Hydrad at L-2. Presumably didn't expect the lynch to happen so soon so he didn't have time to breadcrumb. ash would seem a likely target, but :
vote: XP
I have a PR -- and I caught him.
Interesting. Going to give us any more?
I'm good with this. One of them is lying, one or both is scum, we Lynch xp.
Huh. Maybe he did have a town result on ash ? hy not claim it though ? Yeah it sucks to claim that early as cop ubt there was very clearly a risk in us lynching ash there...
In any case it's not obvious to me who ADK copped if not ash, and what result he got. It's even possible he was roleblocked, he was pretty strongly against claiming, maybe that alerted scum and they roleblocked him ?
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ALright, I don't think we should actually be discussing our reads right now. All it does is help scum figure out where we stand, since the outcome of the lynch is not in questio here.
Mostly I think we should let some time for everynoe to post, in case they want to breadcrumb/claim... though I guess we're not too likely to have other PRs. At least I want WW to have time to participate, but I don't think we should do any actual scumhunting today.
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I do have to say that quickhammering town into self-hammering into complaining is pretty ridiculous
nontheless, XP is confirmed scum. @gkrieg you probably want to unvote, otherwise he can self-hammer and we have a 5 minute day.
Well, Bus Driver may or may not exist, so not confirmed confirmed. Close enough that we are lynching him obviously, but technically not confirmed.
Mafia has Bus Driver + Roleblocker if we have exactly 12, 14 or 16 shots. If we believe WW's claim, there's no way that can happen (cop+vig+rolecop is 7 shots, nothing gives 5 shots).
Although I guess that means that it's still not confirmed confirmed. But at least we can lynch WW if XP flips town.
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I do have to say that quickhammering town into self-hammering into complaining is pretty ridiculous
nontheless, XP is confirmed scum. @gkrieg you probably want to unvote, otherwise he can self-hammer and we have a 5 minute day.
Well, Bus Driver may or may not exist, so not confirmed confirmed. Close enough that we are lynching him obviously, but technically not confirmed.
Mafia has Bus Driver + Roleblocker if we have exactly 12, 14 or 16 shots. If we believe WW's claim, there's no way that can happen (cop+vig+rolecop is 7 shots, nothing gives 5 shots).
Although I guess that means that it's still not confirmed confirmed. But at least we can lynch WW if XP flips town.
I see, I hadn't done the math. Doesn't matter too much anyway.
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I didn't lynch ash based on attitude (or playstyle). I thought he was scum, genuinely. Obviously I'm much worse at reading him than I thought, but declaring his lynch to be orrible just because it turned out to be wrong is a pretty easy stance to take for someone who was on wagon... yeah you might have wanted to change your mind, but no one forced you to vote, now did they ?
ash was scummier than XP, and XP made a strange choice in his fakeclaim... not sure what we're supposed to do there.
I wasn't on wagon. And I logically came to the conclusion that ash was telling the truth after questioning him pretty closely, as I posted. Then I thought of some counterarguments, and you asked me to unvote XP, so I did until I could think it through. When I got back, everything was over, which was completely ash's fault.
I also posted that Hydrad's posts were against a scum wincon, but that went unheeded as well. I clearly need to make myself heard more but there is no hypocrisy in my actions that I can see.
PPE: 3, didn't read yet
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Why does EFHW want to lynch poor RR? Because of my reads?
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Poor RR.
I'm voting Teproc Day 4.
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@EFHW : I thought I read that you were on wagon, I see.
I guess you don't want to do the whole "hide our reads" thing, huh ?
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@EFHW : I thought I read that you were on wagon, I see.
I guess you don't want to do the whole "hide our reads" thing, huh ?
That suggestion struck me as scummy, coming directly after I expressed a scumread on you, so I did not consider it.
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Great.
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The speculation about ADK as well.
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Vote Count 3.2
Xerxes (2): EgorK, gkrieg
Not Voting: (7) Teproc, EFHW, Xerxes, ss, WW, RR, Awaclus
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day3 will last 7 days and will end January 24, 2015 at noon forum time.
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Vote: XP
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Just tried rereading ADK to get any breadcrumbing. He has 5 posts D2, so it was a quick reread. Nothing in there about breadcrumbing targets.
Right now I would say Teproc is one of the others. I will reread XP to see if I can find the other.
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XP:
It's not unreasonable to think that someone suggested you do this in your scum QT.
You know, this really happens much less than people suggest it does. I mean, it's possible, but who do you think would do that?
This is the only interesting post. Nothing else with much content. He votes for Hydrad and ash. That is it.
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Gkrieg/XP scum team.
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Gkrieg/XP scum team.
Why?
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Gkrieg/XP scum team.
Why?
Just rolled that way I guess.
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RR - Had the whole posting Umbrage's guide and seeming to use that.
EgorK - I don't remember much here. 5 posts. One RVS, 2 votes XP, and 2 about mass claiming.
Awaclus - Says the vig shouldn't shoot, votes RR D1, votes ash D2, votes and unvotes xp D3. Gives the setup analysis post indicating no bus driver.
Teproc - Seems to be the other scum based on his reaction to XP. He says thinking of a no-lynch might be good. Says WW shouldn't shoot, tries to organize who should use shots. Has tons of theory posts, with only a small real post. Says he tentatively feels good about the Hydrad lynch. Does heavy defending of XP D2. Says ash is full of baloney. The more I read, the more scummy he gets. Then he doesn't want us to let scum know what we are thinking D3. I think we should definitely discuss things. Then he wants people to breadcrumb/claim. This is going downhill super fast.
EFHW - She has a lot of theory posts about the semi-mass claim. Then makes the case on me and votes for me. There wasn't much to analyze to judge my alignment at that point. I'm still not sure why she focused on me, when there were more lurkers in the game.
Xerxes - scum
ss - Doesn't really seem to be paying attention, which is weird because there was plenty of setup talk to be involved in. He was tentatively agains the semimass claim. Then votes WW after he knew about the claim, Then votes ash D2 as a policy vote. Then he talks about having a short day.
gkrieg - IC
WW - vig - makes sense, his claim hasn't been countered, and no other PRs have come up.
Looking at all all these people, I would say XP is conf!scum, Teproc is one of his partners and I would say I don't think it is EFHW, EgorK, or WW for the last one which leaves ss, RR, and Awaclus for the last scum.
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vote: XP
WW doesn't seem to have more to say, and we really shouldn't be talking more today.
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vote: XP
WW doesn't seem to have more to say, and we really shouldn't be talking more today.
I feel like you're town, but this is a scummy post.
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vote: XP
WW doesn't seem to have more to say, and we really shouldn't be talking more today.
I feel like you're town, but this is a scummy post.
Scummy doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Please explain to me what the upside is of discussing our reads when they will only help scum decide who to kill ? Like, seriously ? We know who we're lynching. I wanted to wait to see if someone wanted to claim something or if WW wanted to discuss his action or lack thereof. Neither are hapenning which is fine, so let's move on. We'll have all the time in the world on day 4, right now there's simply no purpose to it.
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/tag
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I'm a rolecop, and I didn't target anyone last night. (this is why I wasn't worried about us running out of shots)
Man I didn't even see this before.
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Hammering,
Vote: XP
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I'm a rolecop, and I didn't target anyone last night. (this is why I wasn't worried about us running out of shots)
Man I didn't even see this before.
But do we care?
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vote: XP
WW doesn't seem to have more to say, and we really shouldn't be talking more today.
I feel like you're town, but this is a scummy post.
Scummy doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Please explain to me what the upside is of discussing our reads when they will only help scum decide who to kill ? Like, seriously ? We know who we're lynching. I wanted to wait to see if someone wanted to claim something or if WW wanted to discuss his action or lack thereof. Neither are hapenning which is fine, so let's move on. We'll have all the time in the world on day 4, right now there's simply no purpose to it.
Maybe someone will have a scum slip?
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I'm a rolecop, and I didn't target anyone last night. (this is why I wasn't worried about us running out of shots)
Man I didn't even see this before.
But do we care?
I didn't know scum XP was a certain thing.
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I'm a rolecop, and I didn't target anyone last night. (this is why I wasn't worried about us running out of shots)
Man I didn't even see this before.
But do we care?
I didn't know scum XP was a certain thing.
But now it is since the rolecop flipped, right?
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Yes, but clearly WW had missed XP's claim.
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Or, well, that's his story at any rate.
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Or, well, that's his story at any rate.
It's also the truth.
Well, I would have voted XP regardless. I was going to, but thought I should read what I hadn't at Day 2 to cover bases. I just saw then that XP claimed Rolecop.
Well, actually, I guess PRs aren't unique, so I suppose the Bus Driving scenario is still possible.
I would have voted XP yesterday. After reading the first page, I was about to post in support of Ash, then I saw I could not reply, and I saw the day was already over. And I saw you guys lynched Ash.
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I do buy that actually, just because it's so insane for a PR not to reread the day before deciding whether or not he wants to use it that I doubt scum!you would come up with that.
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Man, whenever I see the word PR I perk up because I thought someone said 'RR,' but alas, that is not the case.
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Final Day3 Vote Count
Xerxes (5): EgorK, gkrieg, EFHW, Teproc, WW
Not Voting: (4) Xerxes, ss, RR, Awaclus
With 9 alive it took 5 to lynch.
Xerxes has been lynched. He was a Mafia Roleblocker.
Night Actions are due 36 hours from this post. Night3 will end 48 hours from now.
Thread Locked!
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Day4 Starts Now!
gkrieg died during the night. He was a Vanilla Townie.
Vote Count 4.0
Not Voting: (7) WW, ss, RR, EFHW, Awaclus, Teproc, EgorK
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Day4 will last 7 days and will end January 26 at 1:00 pm forum time.
Thread Unlocked!
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What do people think of a massclaim?
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What do people think of a massclaim?
Firmly against. I'll have to think about it, but thats my instinct anyway.
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Right. I don't really support a mass claim here, but I'd go with it I suppose.
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What do people think of a massclaim?
Firmly against. I'll have to think about it, but thats my instinct anyway.
THought about it. Can confirm I'm against.
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I'll reread XP, but first : WW, do you want to discuss your night actions or lack thereof ?
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Not yet.
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I'll reread XP, but first : WW, do you want to discuss your night actions or lack thereof ?
I don't think WW would've killed gkreig. Gkreig was being helpful, so he got offed by scum. Right?
PPE
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I wasn't thinking that either, but... actually I think we can talk about it :
1) I'm slightly surprised WW didn't shoot last night. If he had, he would definitely want to talk about his night actions, since he'd have good reasons to think whoever he shot was scum (since bulletproof is one of the main ways to explain no death here, though there are obviously others)
2) I'm even more surprised WW didn't die last night. Scum lost heir roleblocker, so dealing with him is a lot tougher. Him not dying could mean they trusted he wasn't about to shoot them but, well, WW's reads aren't well-known, so I'd be scared if I was scum.
I guess whether or not WW shot the night before that is pretty irrelevant, he was very likely roleblocked anyway and that doesn't tell us much.
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So, I guess I'll ask again, more specifically : why didn't yuo shoot last night WW ? Or, if you did, who did you target ? Because that makes them much more likely to be scum here.
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Have we considered that WW could be lying?
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Have we considered that WW could be lying?
That is wht I'm getting at, yes. Well, I don't know if I'm getting at that, but it's why I'm asking this.
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Have we considered that WW could be lying?
That is what I'm getting at, yes. Well, I don't know if I'm getting at that, but it's why I'm asking this.
I'm not sure if I want to vote for you or WW at this point. But I think it's one of you.
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Vote: Hydrad
Oh?
Ibteresting
And I have really good reasoning.
Wanna share it?
Sure!
Is this a joke, or is this a joke? (please explain?)
Vote: Hydrad
Oh?
Ibteresting
And I have really good reasoning.
Wanna share it?
Sure!
Is this a joke, or is this a joke? (please explain?)
Check post #163
Hmm, it's been a long time since I've seen an actual case. vote: hydrad
I'll examine the reasoning in a bit, but I like that this is less-WIFOMy.
I hope you're joking. Do you think I would provide the link to the thing I was doing as scum?
Well, I think you totally would.
Vote: RR
vote: Awaclus
I agree Awaclus is wrong here, why does that merit a vote?
Sum total of XP's relevant posts this game. Short days do have a downside. I consider anything in day 2 irrelevant because he knew he'd flip sooner or later at that point.
I guess this makes Awaclus slightly scummier.
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Have we considered that WW could be lying?
That is what I'm getting at, yes. Well, I don't know if I'm getting at that, but it's why I'm asking this.
I'm not sure if I want to vote for you or WW at this point. But I think it's one of you.
Why is that ?
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Have we considered that WW could be lying?
That is what I'm getting at, yes. Well, I don't know if I'm getting at that, but it's why I'm asking this.
I'm not sure if I want to vote for you or WW at this point. But I think it's one of you.
Why is that ?
WW because he's probably a liar and you because people think you're scummy and they seem to know what they're talking about.
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THey don't, but I'm sure we'll get to that.
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THey don't, but I'm sure we'll get to that.
We're talking about like everyone who's left. Are they all wrong?
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I'm playing devil's advocate BTW, I don't think you're super scummy. You were confused and frustrated with the Ashersky thing, just like me.
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THey don't, but I'm sure we'll get to that.
We're talking about like everyone who's left. Are they all wrong?
As far as I know EFHW is the only one who definitely thinks I'm scum (or at least thought so yesterday). gkriegk though so too I think, but that's aboutit.
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And again, we'll get to that soon enough. I'm sure EFHW will vote for me when she gets there.
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THey don't, but I'm sure we'll get to that.
We're talking about like everyone who's left. Are they all wrong?
As far as I know EFHW is the only one who definitely thinks I'm scum (or at least thought so yesterday). gkriegk though so too I think, but that's aboutit.
And now gkreig's dead. I blame WW, but it is suspicious.
PPE
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So, I guess I'll ask again, more specifically : why didn't yuo shoot last night WW ? Or, if you did, who did you target ? Because that makes them much more likely to be scum here.
Thought about it some more, and I no longer want you to answer that.
I will ask this instead : do you have a specific reason to want a massclaim, or are you just rhowing it out there ?
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So, I guess I'll ask again, more specifically : why didn't yuo shoot last night WW ? Or, if you did, who did you target ? Because that makes them much more likely to be scum here.
Thought about it some more, and I no longer want you to answer that.
I will ask this instead : do you have a specific reason to want a massclaim, or are you just rhowing it out there ?
I have a specific reason.
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Though I should say I'm not 100% certain it will be fruitful.
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Though I should say I'm not 100% certain it will be fruitful.
I see. I'm... well I'm not sure I'm in favor, but I'm no longer opposed, I'll say that.
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Well, if WW is telling the truth, there should be one more PR (can't have just 3 because the three we know, including WW, don't have any duplicates and contain a Roleblock, and can't have 5 because we have two 1-3s). I think if we can leave it up to that guy if he wants to claim or not, because I don't see the benefit of everyone else just claiming VT (and if scum wants to counterclaim him, I don't think the order matters all that much).
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Roleblock
Rolecop, rather.
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So you're saying scum would just claim VT?
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Interactions of other people with XP :
None to speak of before ash claims. So let's phrase this differently : day 2 analysis.
Vote: XP
This is immediately after ash's claim. I find this scummy. As scum, you kind of assume PRs will be believed because, well, they're right. So you can either shut up and wait to see where things go, or immediately vote. Trying to talk things out is pretty dangerous because, well, faking a town perspective is hard enough as it is, it gets even harder when it gets to believing PRs.
Obviously there's the "argue against it" option as well... anything I might say about that would amount to WIFOM, so I'll leave it there.
Okay, I know I said I wouldn't talk because I just need to crawl in a corner and die, but this is honestly stupid.
Ash seems really scummy (not that I know, cause my reads are Grade-A trash) especially with the pick A or B crap. You're not confirmed town. You'd like to think you are, but you're not. You've been a very scummy 'cop,' and Teproc makes good points. But I'm not voting until we hear from Xerxes.
PPE
Scummy as well. At this point ash is udner suspicion from me only, but that's still something scum can grasp onto, especially since RR is just putting this on me here (which, fair enough, but still I'd expect on-wagon scum to have done that to hope for another mislynch later). It's a little hedgier than I'd expect from scum though, and hesitation is townie. Not sure where RR lands here.
The hammer was not scummy. Tell me how it was scummy.
It was the shift from this, where you are very non-committal and seemingly uninspired about a Hydrad lynch:
Eh, I don't think I'd hammer. Maybe I would. Dunno.
I think I'm anti-PR claim at this point if we don't have a specific lying policy in place to WIFOM scum with.
to this, where you take Hydrad's guilt as a given and start speculating about other people with the given that Hydrad would flip scum:
I actually think only one scum would be bussing here, at most. It's early, no one would really expect a lynch to happen, no urgency to be on the wagon.
PPS with the fake vote due to fear of hammer is probably scummiest looking here.
I like awaclus as the other partner.
Hydrad - Awaclus - PPS - SS scumteam.
I would vote Hydrad. But I do not want to end the game. And seeing how ash is in the background, I would not be a bit surprised if he hammered once Hydrad is at L-1.
Oh, it was faust who said that. And he really did vote.
So town points there.
My impression is that you are being "mistakenly certain" in order to seem towny.
PPE: a bunch of posts I didn't read yet
Pretty townie. Doesn't actually adress the claim itself, focuses on my arguments against ash in general, which I think is a pretty townie approach. EFHW isn't trying to take a stance for the future, she's just trying to assess how likely ash is to be scum. Well, not so much in this post, but that's the feeling I get from it.
Okay, I know I said I wouldn't talk because I just need to crawl in a corner and die, but this is honestly stupid.
Ash seems really scummy (not that I know, cause my reads are Grade-A trash) especially with the pick A or B crap. You're not confirmed town. You'd like to think you are, but you're not. You've been a very scummy 'cop,' and Teproc makes good points. But I'm not voting until we hear from Xerxes.
PPE
You have now heard from me. What more do you want to hear? I can talk about whatever, but I'm busy and I don't want to waste time on something nobody will read.
PPE 2
I'd sort of like to hear a claim, but maybe not until someone else votes for you. You mentioned redirection, I wonder what Ashersky thinks about that...
PPE
Getting worse for RR here. Seems like he's saying *psst, remeber how we didn't lynch contradicting claims because of redirection recently ? Mabe that's our narrative to get out of this !*
Has ashersky answered Teproc's question about why he chose to investigate XP? I know he has evaded the one about what role he had that allowed him to investigate.
See above re: EFHW.
vote: ashersky
A decisive vote, as it leads ash to self-vote immediately after that. Pretty bold, but I think scum!silver is capable of it. Still, leaning town here.
Sigh...
In response to ash's self-vote. As I have the benefit of knowing I'm town, EFHW having the same reaction as me is a further indication of her towniness.
I'll ignore EFHW hereafter because she comes out the towniest out of all of this, clearly.
Vote: ash
Well, Awaclus is Awaclus, so of course he'd do this as town. Basically I think town!Awaclus has a 50% chance of posting this in taht situation (the other option being the same post with XP instead of ash), whereas scum!Awaclus has a 100% chance of postig this. Scummy then.
Okay, Teproc, I guess life goes on. Now I'm going to Vote: Ashersky. He's been a very, very scummy 'PR.'
PPE
L-1 on ash. A little bold for scum!RR I think.
And then ash self-hammers.
So :
- EFHW is obvtown
- RR is null-ish
- Awaclus and EgorK are scummy
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So you're saying scum would just claim VT?
So you're saying that they would fake claim a PR?
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Fairly certain we don't want to say what we expect scum to do in case of a massclaim here.
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So you're saying scum would just claim VT?
So you're saying that they would fake claim a PR?
What would you do?
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So you're saying scum would just claim VT?
So you're saying that they would fake claim a PR?
What would you do?
Answering this question would be anti-town.
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Alright then. At any rate, if we do a mass claim I think it should be a real massclaim, no omissions.
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Alright then. At any rate, if we do a mass claim I think it should be a real massclaim, no omissions.
I don't think we should do a mass claim.
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And again, we'll get to that soon enough. I'm sure EFHW will vote for me when she gets there.
Not caught up, but changed my mind about Teproc. Unfortunately. gkrieg was my top scumread. Definitely need to hear more from WW
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Changed my mind during the night, btw, not bc he says I'm towny!
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Alright then. At any rate, if we do a mass claim I think it should be a real massclaim, no omissions.
I think it would be a good idea.
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Though, if WW is town we would probably do better to ask a question. Scum could fakeclaim once, but that's still 1:1, not bad for us.
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A question would reveal less than a claim, but do the same thing, assuming I'm guessing correctly why you want to have a claim.
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A question would reveal less than a claim, but do the same thing, assuming I'm guessing correctly why you want to have a claim.
The fact that we've both guessed it (which, we could be thinking different things but I don't think so) does mean the cost to asking a question (as you put it) is much lesser, and avoids the worst case scenarios of a massclaim.
Also we have a mislynch to give before mylo, so having scum fakeclaim isn't the worst, as you said.
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We definitely need to hear a lot more from silver. He usually has reads and opinions to share.
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I can't read EgorK or Awaclus at all. RR keeps playing the newbie card. How many games have you been in, RR?
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I can't read EgorK or Awaclus at all. RR keeps playing the newbie card. How many games have you been in, RR?
Switch, Shakespare Blitz, Harry Potter, Marval, Simply Simple.
How am I playing the newbie card?
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By saying other players are vets, unlike you. And that you have bad reads, shouldn't talk, shouldn't start wagons.
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Awaclus turned the tide against ashersky. XP was at L-2 when Awaclus voted ash. Then RR did, and that set off the self-hammer.
@ Awaclus, why didn't you believe ashersky?
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By saying other players are vets, unlike you. And that you have bad reads, shouldn't talk, shouldn't start wagons.
If you're trying to imply that I'm a 'vet,' that's laughable. The only reason I'm not automatically policy lynched is because people like me.
And I do have bad reads, and I do post way too much.
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Awaclus turned the tide against ashersky. XP was at L-2 when Awaclus voted ash. Then RR did, and that set off the self-hammer.
@ Awaclus, why didn't you believe ashersky?
His posts that day felt like manipulation techniques to hide the truth rather than emphasize it, he had a reason to do it as scum, XP didn't stand out as scummy to me, and Teproc made good points against ash that I agreed with. To be completely honest, I was also intrigued by the idea of lynching the claimed PR first because I've never done that before and I wanted to try it out (but I still did believe that it had a pretty good chance of being the correct play, I wouldn't have done it otherwise).
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If you're trying to imply that I'm a 'vet,' that's laughable.
You would qualify as a vet for a newbie game.
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Awaclus turned the tide against ashersky. XP was at L-2 when Awaclus voted ash. Then RR did, and that set off the self-hammer.
@ Awaclus, why didn't you believe ashersky?
His posts that day felt like manipulation techniques to hide the truth rather than emphasize it, he had a reason to do it as scum, XP didn't stand out as scummy to me, and Teproc made good points against ash that I agreed with. To be completely honest, I was also intrigued by the idea of lynching the claimed PR first because I've never done that before and I wanted to try it out (but I still did believe that it had a pretty good chance of being the correct play, I wouldn't have done it otherwise).
Vote: Awaclus
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I think I like vote: EgorK better.
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My only regret is that I have but one vote to give for my country.
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Vote Count 4.1
Awaclus: (1) WW
EgorK: (1) Teproc
Not Voting: (5) ss, RR, EFHW, Awaclus, EgorK
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Day4 will last 7 days and will end January 26 at 1:00 pm forum time.
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My only regret is that I have but one vote to give for my country.
I thought it was boneitis?
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My only regret is that I have but one vote to give for my country.
but seriously, what do you think about asking a question instead of a claim?
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My only regret is that I have but one vote to give for my country.
but seriously, what do you think about asking a question instead of a claim?
I'm not certain we're on the same page here.
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My only regret is that I have but one vote to give for my country.
but seriously, what do you think about asking a question instead of a claim?
I'm not certain we're on the same page here.
So what now?
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I'll post my reads just so people know where I stand.
Town:
EFHW
RR
Null:
Teproc
ss
Awaclus
Scummy:
WW
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Ha, really?
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Where is Egor?
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Where is Egor?
I was just checking to see if he was still alive. I guess he's null, but maybe a little towny. Italics are fun!
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My only regret is that I have but one vote to give for my country.
but seriously, what do you think about asking a question instead of a claim?
I'm not certain we're on the same page here.
So what now?
Vote: EgorK
I suppose.
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We also need to hear from silver here.
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We also need to hear from silver here.
Before what?
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Before we lynch, I suppose. We've had some pretty fast days this game, which is fine but I think today we should take our time.
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You would be right to slow up on this and go some other direction
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Like which other direction?
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I am leaning on Awaclus, but need to have reread to make a case. Silver also not top town read for me
Teproc and EFHW are though. On the other hand EFHW warrant review as well - she's a universal town read, which sometimes backfires
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So are you ignoring RR because he ignored you?
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So are you ignoring RR because he ignored you?
Sorryyyyy
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So are you ignoring RR because he ignored you?
I am ignoring RR because I cannot read him correctly. I also ignore you, for example, for different reasons
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So are you ignoring RR because he ignored you?
I am ignoring RR because I cannot read him correctly. I also ignore you, for example, for different reasons
Current games?
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So are you ignoring RR because he ignored you?
I am ignoring RR because I cannot read him correctly. I also ignore you, for example, for different reasons
Current games?
Why, I was referring Marvel
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So are you ignoring RR because he ignored you?
I am ignoring RR because I cannot read him correctly. I also ignore you, for example, for different reasons
Current games?
Why, I was referring Marvel
Alrighty.
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no need to prod me, I am following the game.
I don't have a lot of time/energy atm. what exactly do you want me to do?
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I guess you want me to vote
vote: Awaclus
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a) who do you think is scum ?
b) do you think we should massclaim ?
PPE : Yeah but no. I want more than that. Read's be nice. We're a bit content-starved this game because we've had short days.
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but I don't have any reads :/
okay that's not quite true. RR was super town if I remember correclty.
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but I don't have any reads :/
okay that's not quite true. RR was super town if I remember correclty.
.....
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hey other players get by without elaborating on their reads all the time. Can't I do it once?
okay, deadline is 24. I should find time to get involved by then.
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but I don't have any reads :/
okay that's not quite true. RR was super town if I remember correclty.
If you have time to do rereads, don't pull an Egor!
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La di da.
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
Do you think one of XP's partners would have bussed him both days?
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
Do you think one of XP's partners would have bussed him both days?
Probably not the day Ash was lynched, but probably on the day XP was lynched. But who knows? I want to hear more from EFHW and Teproc.
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
Do you think one of XP's partners would have bussed him both days?
Probably not the day Ash was lynched, but probably on the day XP was lynched. But who knows? I want to hear more from EFHW and Teproc.
Why do you say that?
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
Do you think one of XP's partners would have bussed him both days?
I need to think about that. I predisposed to think no, because I did just that and am town.
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
Do you think one of XP's partners would have bussed him both days?
I need to think about that. I predisposed to think no, because I did just that and am town.
It's not bussing if you're town...
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
Do you think one of XP's partners would have bussed him both days?
Probably not the day Ash was lynched, but probably on the day XP was lynched. But who knows? I want to hear more from EFHW and Teproc.
Why do you say that?
Well, Ashersky's lynch would've been hard to do if XP's partners were against him. But I doubt a partner was voting for XP. It just makes sense to me, maybe I'm wrong. But on the day XP was lynched, scum just wanted to probably cut their losses and look as towny as possible.
What do you think?
PPE 2
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
Do you think one of XP's partners would have bussed him both days?
Probably not the day Ash was lynched, but probably on the day XP was lynched. But who knows? I want to hear more from EFHW and Teproc.
Why do you say that?
Well, Ashersky's lynch would've been hard to do if XP's partners were against him. But I doubt a partner was voting for XP. It just makes sense to me, maybe I'm wrong. But on the day XP was lynched, scum just wanted to probably cut their losses and look as towny as possible.
What do you think?
PPE 2
That's a posteriori. When Ash comes out with a result against XP, XP's partners wouldn't know if lynching Ash was a possibility.
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
Do you think one of XP's partners would have bussed him both days?
I need to think about that. I predisposed to think no, because I did just that and am town.
It's not bussing if you're town...
And I would probably check my words for such references would I be scum.
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The votes on the day XP was lynched mean next to nothing.
I think it's very possible for scum!EgorK in partiular to have voted XP, because he did so very early on, and might not have expected ash to be a possible lynch (since as scum you tend to assume people claiming the truth will be obvious to everyone).
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Anyone who voted XP after that gets massive town cred though. I think that's EFHW and dead people though.
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The votes on the day XP was lynched mean next to nothing.
I think it's very possible for scum!EgorK in partiular to have voted XP, because he did so very early on, and might not have expected ash to be a possible lynch (since as scum you tend to assume people claiming the truth will be obvious to everyone).
I already know your thinking; I wanted to know RR's~
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Sorry.
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Anyone who voted XP after that gets massive town cred though. I think that's EFHW and dead people though.
I don't necessarily agree with this. You absolutely know you're going to look bad if Ash is the lynch, and at best you know you're trading 1 for 1, XP being tomorrow's lynch, while getting serious scrutiny further days. It might be worth it to get the town cred.
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The votes on the day XP was lynched mean next to nothing.
I think it's very possible for scum!EgorK in partiular to have voted XP, because he did so very early on, and might not have expected ash to be a possible lynch (since as scum you tend to assume people claiming the truth will be obvious to everyone).
But I think this is my normal reaction for situation like this. Unless claimer is under heavy pressure already (faust in Marvel) or there are already many votes (WW in Marvel) I usually vote right away after such claims
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I'm not too thrilled with that line of defense.
What were your reads on Ash and XP prior to Ash's claim?
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
So I was on one mislynch, off another. I'd say it's pretty good.
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Vote Count 4.2
EgorK: (2) Teproc, WW (L-2)
Awaclus: (2) ss, EgorK (L-2)
Not Voting: (3) RR, EFHW, Awaclus
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Day4 will last 7 days and will end January 26 at 1:00 pm forum time.
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okay, I don't like this. vote: Egork
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okay, I don't like this. vote: Egork
Why not?
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That's L-1. No hammer before claim.
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Well, ok. I am remaining PR (if WW tells truth). I can claim which if you want, but I am not sure it is needed unless there is counterclaim
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Interesting.
unvote
WW, did you shoot last night ?
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And this time I really need you to answer.
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Well, ok. I am remaining PR (if WW tells truth). I can claim which if you want, but I am not sure it is needed unless there is counterclaim
Four PRs?
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The votes on the day XP was lynched mean next to nothing.
I think it's very possible for scum!EgorK in partiular to have voted XP, because he did so very early on, and might not have expected ash to be a possible lynch (since as scum you tend to assume people claiming the truth will be obvious to everyone).
I already know your thinking; I wanted to know RR's~
One sec.
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Well, ok. I am remaining PR (if WW tells truth). I can claim which if you want, but I am not sure it is needed unless there is counterclaim
Don't claim.
Unvote
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Hold on I need to think.
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Well, ok. I am remaining PR (if WW tells truth). I can claim which if you want, but I am not sure it is needed unless there is counterclaim
Four PRs?
Well, this is the only possible number, as we already had cop (so it can't be 5) and rolecop (so it can't be 3)
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Well, ok. I am remaining PR (if WW tells truth). I can claim which if you want, but I am not sure it is needed unless there is counterclaim
Four PRs?
Well, this is the only possible number, as we already had cop (so it can't be 5) and rolecop (so it can't be 3)
This is accurate.
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Well, ok. I am remaining PR (if WW tells truth). I can claim which if you want, but I am not sure it is needed unless there is counterclaim
Four PRs?
Well, this is the only possible number, as we already had cop (so it can't be 5) and rolecop (so it can't be 3)
Okay. I'll believe you (and Teproc).
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Actually based on open information 3 is possible if both WW and me are lying and Cop is hiding somewhere
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Egor, can you say if you're (1)--(3)?
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Actually based on open information 3 is possible if both WW and me are lying and Cop is hiding somewhere
Right.
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oh uhhhh would anyone believe it if I told you that I thought Egork was on 0 votes?
not the say that I wouldn't have voted anyway.
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but I think I'd have announced L-1
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Actually based on open information 3 is possible if both WW and me are lying and Cop is hiding somewhere
Right.
Well, it depends on what you're claiming I think.
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oh uhhhh would anyone believe it if I told you that I thought Egork was on 0 votes?
not the say that I wouldn't have voted anyway.
There was a vote count right before your post.
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WW, did you shoot last night ?
ICYMI
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@Witherweaver
So, here's why I think there was scum on the Ashersky wagon.
It was basically XP vs Ashersky, but XP had a chance to slip away. I would assume scum saw this, as everyone was uncertain about Ashersky's claim. Scum could've voted for Ashersky and gotten people to subconsciously sheep. And if scum would've been on the wagon, that's 1-2 less votes that XP needs. It's hard to explain, I thought everyone would assume scum was on Ashersky's wagon. It just makes sense.
PPE 8??
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Actually based on open information 3 is possible if both WW and me are lying and Cop is hiding somewhere
Right.
Well, it depends on what you're claiming I think.
Well, I already outed I am not Cop. There's that
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Okay, I think it's time.
I'm not a Vig, I'm a VT.
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@Witherweaver
So, here's why I think there was scum on the Ashersky wagon.
It was basically XP vs Ashersky, but XP had a chance to slip away. I would assume scum saw this, as everyone was uncertain about Ashersky's claim. Scum could've voted for Ashersky and gotten people to subconsciously sheep. And if scum would've been on the wagon, that's 1-2 less votes that XP needs. It's hard to explain, I thought everyone would assume scum was on Ashersky's wagon. It just makes sense.
PPE 8??
The incentive for scum to be off-wagon is that they know XP will flip soon (either this day or the next one), so they can go for the towncred by voting XP in a situation where both are viable.
It's doing a pro-town thing for long-term gain. Scum does that all the time... I think this partiuclar situation didn't lend itself to it all that much though.
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Okay, I think it's time.
I'm not a Vig, I'm a VT.
You've gotta be kidding me.
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I'm using so much willpower in not voting you reflexively, so please explain.
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I'm not using as much willpower as Teproc, it turns out.
Okay, I think it's time.
I'm not a Vig, I'm a VT.
Vote: WW
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Reasons were thus:
1) I wanted to see what would happen (biggest)
2) Get some reactions
3) Make scum waste shots/possibly eat a night kill
I decided this when I received my QT. I assume I can't paste form there, but my first message there said I was going to do something crazy.
PPEs
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The ideal situation would be to get shot myself, thus preventing you from all having to wonder whether or not you'd lynch me. Not dying could indicate that my reads were not great. (I did think Gkrieg was scum after all.)
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Okay, I think it's time.
I'm not a Vig, I'm a VT.
Vote: WW
Dayvig: WW
Daycop: WW
Revote: WW
PPE 3
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I'm not using as much willpower as Teproc, it turns out.
Okay, I think it's time.
I'm not a Vig, I'm a VT.
Vote: WW
Always doing what is expected of you doesn't make you any townier.
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Reasons were thus:
1) I wanted to see what would happen (biggest)
2) Get some reactions
3) Make scum waste shots/possibly eat a night kill
I decided this when I received my QT. I assume I can't paste form there, but my first message there said I was going to do something crazy.
PPEs
What. Do you get to do that? Don't you get 10,000 scum points?
PPE
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Even if you could post your QT it wouldn't do much (I do think you should be able to), because if you're scum you've obviously been planning this since the start.
I don't know what to think. You not dying last night is so very strange to me too : your reads were unclear right ?
PPE : Was your gkrieg read public ?
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Even if you could post your QT it wouldn't do much (I do think you should be able to), because if you're scum you've obviously been planning this since the start.
I don't know what to think. You not dying last night is so very strange to me too : your reads were unclear right ?
PPE : Was your gkrieg read public ?
Yeah, I made the post about XP/Gkrieg scum team. That was intentional.
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Even if you could post your QT it wouldn't do much (I do think you should be able to), because if you're scum you've obviously been planning this since the start.
I don't know what to think. You not dying last night is so very strange to me too : your reads were unclear right ?
PPE : Was your gkrieg read public ?
Yeah, I made the post about XP/Gkrieg scum team. That was intentional.
So you intentionally made it so scum wouldn't be scared of you if you were wrong ? As opposed to not giving your reads and being100% certain scum would be scared of you and thus would shoot you ?
How ? What ? WHy ?
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This was my idea of proposing the massclaim. Scum would have to claim under the assumption that there is a PR that isn't actually there. This could get them into problems with fake claiming. I would claim after everyone else. Though, they may have just ended up all claiming VT anyway.
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Even if you could post your QT it wouldn't do much (I do think you should be able to), because if you're scum you've obviously been planning this since the start.
I don't know what to think. You not dying last night is so very strange to me too : your reads were unclear right ?
PPE : Was your gkrieg read public ?
Yeah, I made the post about XP/Gkrieg scum team. That was intentional.
So you intentionally made it so scum wouldn't be scared of you if you were wrong ? As opposed to not giving your reads and being100% certain scum would be scared of you and thus would shoot you ?
How ? What ? WHy ?
Well, I had really thought Gkrieg was scum.
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Even if you could post your QT it wouldn't do much (I do think you should be able to), because if you're scum you've obviously been planning this since the start.
I don't know what to think. You not dying last night is so very strange to me too : your reads were unclear right ?
PPE : Was your gkrieg read public ?
Yeah, I made the post about XP/Gkrieg scum team. That was intentional.
So you intentionally made it so scum wouldn't be scared of you if you were wrong ? As opposed to not giving your reads and being100% certain scum would be scared of you and thus would shoot you ?
How ? What ? WHy ?
Well, I had really thought Gkrieg was scum.
zehjfkezbjfkezbjkfzehiofhzeionzefze"
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Going away now. I need to do something else so I can think clearly about this.
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What even is this? I quit. I'll be back later. But this is too much.
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What even is this? I quit. I'll be back later. But this is too much.
Vote: Roadrunner
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What even is this? I quit. I'll be back later. But this is too much.
Vote: Roadrunner
I think this vote is so that I'll say something, but I won't give you that satisfaction.
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What even is this? I quit. I'll be back later. But this is too much.
Vote: Roadrunner
I think this vote is so that I'll say something, but I won't give you that satisfaction.
I say this because you're not displaying a genuine reaction. I believe Teproc is frustrated; I don't believe you are.
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What even is this? I quit. I'll be back later. But this is too much.
Vote: Roadrunner
I think this vote is so that I'll say something, but I won't give you that satisfaction.
I say this because you're not displaying a genuine reaction. I believe Teproc is frustrated; I don't believe you are.
I'm not frustrated. I am confused because this means Egor probably is a PR, and I'm also possibly annoyed that no one is active and when we get activity it's 'oh yeah, guys, I lied, but I'm totally town.' This is awful.
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Did you not think Egor was a PR before? Why didn't you vote him? I was your top scum read before; why would you be doubting Egor's claim?
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oh I like this. I did it as a VT in my favorite game of which I keep forgetting the name.
meh, I don't know if I believe it, though. I can't think clearly right now.
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@Witherweaver
So, here's why I think there was scum on the Ashersky wagon.
It was basically XP vs Ashersky, but XP had a chance to slip away. I would assume scum saw this, as everyone was uncertain about Ashersky's claim. Scum could've voted for Ashersky and gotten people to subconsciously sheep. And if scum would've been on the wagon, that's 1-2 less votes that XP needs. It's hard to explain, I thought everyone would assume scum was on Ashersky's wagon. It just makes sense.
PPE 8??
So again, you're missing the point. Egor voted for XP immediately after Ashersky's claim, before Teproc had argued against it.
So the point is this. You're XP's partner. A town PR claims a guilty result against him. You know he's telling the truth, so you have to start thinking: How would I behave as town? Would I believe Ash, or would I be skeptical? Should I bus? Should I do it right away? How do I make it not look like a bus? Should I wait and see what happens? Etc.
This happened to me in MU when I was Teproc's partner. I had to think very hard on how to vote him.. I absolutely knew I was going to vote for Teproc, but I didn't want to look too eager, or fake, or give anything away.
At any rate, your answer makes it seem like you haven't really been in this situation, so
Unvote
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oh I like this. I did it as a VT in my favorite game of which I keep forgetting the name.
meh, I don't know if I believe it, though. I can't think clearly right now.
Did we lynch you for it?
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So, I believe WW because if he is scum he made situation so much worse. Suppose he is not retracting his clai, we are evntually counterclaimed, and there are 1 scum among 3 claimed PRs and 1 among 4 claimed VTs. Now worse case scenario for town other PR just claim. We'd have 2 scum among 5 claimed VTs and 2 IC. Much better for town
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So, I believe WW because if he is scum he made situation so much worse. Suppose he is not retracting his clai, we are evntually counterclaimed, and there are 1 scum among 3 claimed PRs and 1 among 4 claimed VTs. Now worse case scenario for town other PR just claim. We'd have 2 scum among 5 claimed VTs and 2 IC. Much better for town
So you're suggesting the other PR should claim?
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Taking issues in no particular order:
I don't think the fakeclaim was a good idea. If we had had a real vig and they followed faust's advice, then there would have been two town deaths the first night - WW and faust. Maybe it got scum to use up a roleblock on him.
Egork's XP vote doesn't say anything to me about alignment. Either narrative is equally likely. I also assume scum would be on XP's wagon for towncred. At what point, I don't know. Unfortunately, Teproc's certainty gave scum a lot of cover for voting ash, and I have no problem imagining scum being on the ashersky wagon.
Awaclus's ashersky vote was scummy. RR then sheeped or followed his partner's lead, provoking ashersky to self-hammer. ash does nutty things sometimes, but he had pretty good answers to our questions, and a little bit of reflection made it clear that he wanted to keep ambiguity about whether he was a cop or a rolecop. Town would have been following that discussion and should have had some self-questioning when I said I believed ash and why after questioning him so closely. The timing was bad that I had to go before I could sort it all out, but it was there for others to sort out as well. RR maybe wouldn't, but I would expect town!Awaclus to want to do that.
Awaclus's WW vote without explanation is also scummy, because this really seems like a town maneuver.
I'll wait for an official vote count (please), but I'm planning to vote Awaclus at this point.
I don't think EgorK should claim yet. We have to think through a bit why we've had so few results given that we have 2 unclaimed PR's.
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What even is this? I quit. I'll be back later. But this is too much.
Vote: Roadrunner
I think this vote is so that I'll say something, but I won't give you that satisfaction.
I say this because you're not displaying a genuine reaction. I believe Teproc is frustrated; I don't believe you are.
scum is probably just as frustrated as town, since they've also been having to consider that you might be telling the truth.
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oh I like this. I did it as a VT in my favorite game of which I keep forgetting the name.
meh, I don't know if I believe it, though. I can't think clearly right now.
Did we lynch you for it?
no although, I actually did the opposite, not the same. I claimed VT as a PR. like I said, thinking is hard.
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Vote Count 4.3
EgorK: (1) ss
Awaclus: (1) EgorK
WW: (2) Awaclus, RR (L-2)
Not Voting: (3) EFHW, Teproc, WW
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Day4 will last 7 days and will end January 26 at 1:00 pm forum time.
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This was my idea of proposing the massclaim. Scum would have to claim under the assumption that there is a PR that isn't actually there. This could get them into problems with fake claiming. I would claim after everyone else. Though, they may have just ended up all claiming VT anyway.
Thinking there was a PR that wasn't there shouldn't have tripped them up. They would have made sure not to create too many PR's just in case you were lying.
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This was my idea of proposing the massclaim. Scum would have to claim under the assumption that there is a PR that isn't actually there. This could get them into problems with fake claiming. I would claim after everyone else. Though, they may have just ended up all claiming VT anyway.
Thinking there was a PR that wasn't there shouldn't have tripped them up. They would have made sure not to create too many PR's just in case you were lying.
The opposite, claiming VT when actually a PR could result in catching scum in a lie.
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vote: Awaclus
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This was my idea of proposing the massclaim. Scum would have to claim under the assumption that there is a PR that isn't actually there. This could get them into problems with fake claiming. I would claim after everyone else. Though, they may have just ended up all claiming VT anyway.
Thinking there was a PR that wasn't there shouldn't have tripped them up. They would have made sure not to create too many PR's just in case you were lying.
Why would they think I was lying?
Also, what were you thinking when you were talking of asking a question?
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Awaclus's WW vote without explanation is also scummy, because this really seems like a town maneuver.
Are you kidding me? No way this seems like a town maneuver. This is orders of magnitude more ridiculous than me changing my claim in Buffy/Angel and I got lynched over that twice in that game (correctly so).
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I don't know about EFHW, but I was thinking that you shot last night and we could have asked if there was a protective PR out there, if not whoever you shot was definitely scum since roleblocker is no more.
I was insistent about this because I believed town!WW would shoot 99% of the time last night and would have argued for your lynch if you claimed otherwise.
WW, please post your QT here. You can do it, with these restrictions (from the rules in the thread) :
9. All players will be given a personal QT to post thoughts, ideas in throughout the game. Scum can use these to pretend to be town. Night actions may be submitted to the mod, as may mod questions. Content from QTs may be posted within the thread verbatim, but not linked. Any interaction with the mod (asking questions, receiving answers, friendly banter, or any other content that deals with the mod or references the mod should not be posted. If you aren't sure, ask).
PPE : Were you scum ? if not, that wasn't a correct lynch.
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PPE : Were you scum ? if not, that wasn't a correct lynch.
Yes.
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I asked Yuma, and he showed me that as well. Here is my QT, reverse order, only skipping Yuma's messages and when I asked him if I could post it:
Hooray.
I'm considering doing something crazy this game
So I guess to get down for posterity's sake on why I claimed this. The biggest reason was that I just wanted to see what would happen. Also, gauging reactions. If I ever get lynched scum is going to expect me to actually flip vig. I'm also hoping to eat up some scum shots, either a kill or block/something at some point. I'm not 100% sure if that will happen.. it's going to depend on if they think I'm actually a threat. I'm hoping that I'm seen as a bit of someone that will make my own decisions despite town consensus, so if I end up with good reads I might be targeted for kill/block/whatever. Scum could even use a protective shot on themselves at some point.
I'm not going to shoot tonight!
I didn't get quite as much reaction as I wanted to from my claim. Maybe I can get something else on reread. ADK was particularly quick to jump on pro-town me.
I think Ash knows I'm fake claiming.. he probably thinks so because he's a Vig. Which is actually flawed, because I think a duplicate PR has as much chance of coming up as two different PRs. Though I could be wrong there.
Hydrad escalation was kind of weird. I did think his response to RR was pretty scummy.
What the heck? Ash gets lynched before I even see the thread is unlocked? This is insane.
For what it's worth, I believed Ash's claim when I read it. I was going to vote XP, and then saw I couldn't even post. That's pretty ridiculous. Well, I haven't actually read any of the day, but I do sympathize with Ash here.. he has to constantly fight his meta, as both alignments.
Wonder if my thing about Gkrieg being XP's partner will get me scum attention. I would love to take a night kill. It may be too obvious for scum to do if Gkrieg actually is scum?
I should probably check what PRs they actually can have. But if I get them to waste a shot that's a plus.
Teproc I actually think is town; he doesn't play scum like this usually.
Scummiest on XP wagon are Gkrieg and EFHW, maybe EgorK. If only one of them is scum, RR is a good candidate for the last partner.
Wonder if people are going to hate me after this game~. It's going to be bad if we get to me vs. someone at LyLo. Will probably come clean at that point, but other town is going to have a hard time not lynching a liar. That's what lost me my very first game, actually~
Which is why eating a night kill would be ideal. I assume scum would not Rolecop me (if they have it), as they shouldn't think I'd lie.
I'm considering coming clean tomorrow if I'm alive. It could look scummy because scum!me would have to come up with an excuse to not shoot as well, and people might think this is how scum would play it.
I could also just lie deeper and claim my 'target' (Gkrieg?) just didn't die. We lynched the Roleblocker, so that's too bad. So scum would have had to use a Bulletproof shot. If they didn't happen to use the shot, scum would have to know I'm lying as town at that point, which would be interesting. If I go this direction (probably a very bad idea) I have to be really confident in Gkrieg, which I'm not yet. All in all seems too risky. And I'll look a lot like caught scum if anything doesn't add up.
Oh snap.. if I'm alive tomorrow, maybe I should argue for a masslcaim. And I direct it. Is it possible that scum can get caught in a fake claim by assuming town has more PRs than we actually do? I might have to investigate the setup more. Could be interesting.
I'm leaning RR as a partner. RR/Gkrieg? I'm bad at reading RR.
I really don't think Teproc. That Ash fight sounds like Teproc thought Ash was scum since the Day 1 hammer and fit all his thinking around that idea throughout Day 2. I think scum Teproc knows it looks bad, and Town Teproc is sure enough in his own reads to get some blinders on. I don't think scum!Teproc is bold enough to WIFOM that position.
ADK looks townie on the XP wagon. He's skeptical, XP scummily posts, ADK votes. It's not a sure thing, but it's reasonable.
Egork maybe townie, hard to say. He posts so little. But 100% a partner buses XP on Day 2 and Day 3, and both Egor and Gkrieg fit that. Gkrieg's looks scummier.
SS voting Ash is bad.. that's possible there. EFHW is possible too; I don't read her very well.
RR vote for Ash on r#369 is really bad. I can't see myself not lynching RR sometime this game.
Oh, Awaclus is still alive. Damn. He could easily be scum there with that Ash vote.
Okay, guess I was wrong about Gkrieg.
Well, bumps up Egor as the possible busser, and makes me want to reconsider Teproc.
Awaclus could be scum here.. he is awful conscious of how many potential PRs town has.
Fun fact, ADK had already been killed when I said he looked townie for his XP vote. Too bad that wasn't in the thread, could have claimed townslip~
RR may have showed town there with "Probably not the day Ash was lynched, but probably on the day XP was lynched. But who knows? I want to hear more from EFHW and Teproc." It sounds as if he's not thinking from a position of XP's partner when confronted with a guilty result against XP. We'll see what his explanation is. I guess it would be good if I could cross off RR.
I don't like SS here.
Hmm.. could maybe be breadcrumbing a PR result; or trying to fabricate one.
Though Egor's "you'd do better to look elsewhere" or whatever message sounded like a soft PR claim.
I think if there are two PR claims and only two, then they are confirmed and I'll come clean as VT.
I think we have four PRs regardless of what the claimants are, since we had a Rolecop flip.
(then I ask Yuma if I can post and he quotes that rule)
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Oh, shoot, I'm not sure if that first message counts as 'friendly banter'.
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WW doesn't like me :'(
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WW doesn't like me :'(
That was in response to your enigmatic vote on EgorK.
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okay, I don't like this. vote: Egork
This one.
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Awaclus's WW vote without explanation is also scummy, because this really seems like a town maneuver.
Are you kidding me? No way this seems like a town maneuver. This is orders of magnitude more ridiculous than me changing my claim in Buffy/Angel and I got lynched over that twice in that game (correctly so).
.. You were scum, and your claim was awful and continuously made up on the spot.
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I don't know about EFHW, but I was thinking that you shot last night and we could have asked if there was a protective PR out there, if not whoever you shot was definitely scum since roleblocker is no more.
I was insistent about this because I believed town!WW would shoot 99% of the time last night and would have argued for your lynch if you claimed otherwise.
WW, please post your QT here. You can do it, with these restrictions (from the rules in the thread) :
9. All players will be given a personal QT to post thoughts, ideas in throughout the game. Scum can use these to pretend to be town. Night actions may be submitted to the mod, as may mod questions. Content from QTs may be posted within the thread verbatim, but not linked. Any interaction with the mod (asking questions, receiving answers, friendly banter, or any other content that deals with the mod or references the mod should not be posted. If you aren't sure, ask).
PPE : Were you scum ? if not, that wasn't a correct lynch.
I probably would have shot Gkrieg last night were I actually a Vig. I may have settled on RR, but a lot of the time I tend to go back to my first instinct.
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WW thinks he will lynch me this game? :(
PPE
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Notice RR again is following Awaclus's lead.
This was my idea of proposing the massclaim. Scum would have to claim under the assumption that there is a PR that isn't actually there. This could get them into problems with fake claiming. I would claim after everyone else. Though, they may have just ended up all claiming VT anyway.
Thinking there was a PR that wasn't there shouldn't have tripped them up. They would have made sure not to create too many PR's just in case you were lying.
Why would they think I was lying?
Also, what were you thinking when you were talking of asking a question?
They would think you might be lying because your claiming so early was never satisfactorily explained. I know I have been skeptical throughout for that reason.
If you had been telling the truth, then presumably you had tried to shoot and failed. So you could have said "did anyone take an action that could have interfered with my shooting X", and that way you could limit how extensive a claim would be needed. Scum could try to make something up, but that would be super risky.
PPE: 11
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Awaclus's WW vote without explanation is also scummy, because this really seems like a town maneuver.
Are you kidding me? No way this seems like a town maneuver. This is orders of magnitude more ridiculous than me changing my claim in Buffy/Angel and I got lynched over that twice in that game (correctly so).
.. You were scum, and your claim was awful and continuously made up on the spot.
I was scum, but my claim had tons of evidence for it and it was almost true. Here, you're scum too, and all the evidence is against your claim, not for it.
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Notice RR again is following Awaclus's lead.
The only noteworthy thing about this is that nobody else is voting for the confirmed scum.
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This is really bad from you if you're town.
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Because the 'confirmed scum' thing is an obvious act, and you do it as either alignment against town all the time.
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Speaking of putting blinders on... that QT tells me two things :
a) you're probably town
b) you didn't think this through. THe only way this is pro-town is if you die. The fact that you're alive and it has come to this is a failure. Just wanted to point that out for future reference.
Regarding a, we have to look at what the scum narrative is here, and it's pretty clear to me that it's :
- WW claims early because early claims get a bunch of towncred, figures he can bank on Roleblocker (which he knows exist) to explain why he never gets a kill through.
- Roleblocker dies, crap, what do I do ? What if there are no protective PRs ? Ok, I can do this crazy thing and claim VT.
This timing is important because in order for WW to be scum, he also has to have a QT he's updating as his town!self throughout the game. So I would expect him to write it as an actual vig, because that's what he claimed, and I don't think scum!WW planned this "I'm a VT fakeclaiming Vig" from day 1. So of course he'd have updated it and changed a few things to make it look as if he was fakeclaiming from the start, but it just doesn't read like that to me.
So WW is bad town. I mean I'm bad town to for getting it wrong on day 2 but still, this is worse, so thanks for that.
Now... Awaclus now has his excuse to do nothing as long as WW's alive, so we could lynch him because he's never going to be doing anything in this game ever again, and he's about 50/50 to flip scum (well, not 50/50 but you know what I mean).
Really though, the PoE is pretty good now : EFHW and WW are town, RR and EgorK probably too, that leaves us with
- Awaclus
- silverspawn
That's it ?
Ok, probably wrong about one of these town reads then.
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The blinders reference is that you were way too confident in your gkrieg read. Your goal is to get killed, and putting that read out there only works if gkrieg is scum, but is disastrous otherwise because now scum actively wants you alive. ANd I repeat : the only way this fakeclaiming nonsense is worth it is if you get NKed.
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I'll actually
vote: silverspawn
I just don't like lynching Awaclus. I'd ask WW to vig him, but you know.
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Because the 'confirmed scum' thing is an obvious act, and you do it as either alignment against town all the time.
It's not an act. It's genuinely way beyond my ability to comprehend why you would do this as town and the fact that other people have done other stuff in the past that was also utterly ridiculous and then turned out to be actually town in those games doesn't change that. There's no way you would do this as town, it's very difficult to imagine scum not killing a claimed town PR for 4 days, and the fact that you're aware of how I react when players are obviously scum is even further proof that there's no way you would do this as town.
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The blinders reference is that you were way too confident in your gkrieg read. Your goal is to get killed, and putting that read out there only works if gkrieg is scum, but is disastrous otherwise because now scum actively wants you alive. ANd I repeat : the only way this fakeclaiming nonsense is worth it is if you get NKed.
Well, yes, but that didn't happen. And it seemed pretty unlikely. The longer I'm alive without shooting, the more scum can push an argument to lynch me. I was hoping that my reads could mix things up some. However, this game progressed a little oddly. Day 1 lynch kind of snowballed to a quick day, then Ash v XP happened. So we're on Day 4 with about a days worth of content. I couldn't have predicted the game state would end up like this back at the beginning.
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Because the 'confirmed scum' thing is an obvious act, and you do it as either alignment against town all the time.
It's not an act. It's genuinely way beyond my ability to comprehend why you would do this as town and the fact that other people have done other stuff in the past that was also utterly ridiculous and then turned out to be actually town in those games doesn't change that. There's no way you would do this as town, it's very difficult to imagine scum not killing a claimed town PR for 4 days, and the fact that you're aware of how I react when players are obviously scum is even further proof that there's no way you would do this as town.
The fact that he know you'll tunnel him makes this appealing to him as scum how ?
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Because the 'confirmed scum' thing is an obvious act, and you do it as either alignment against town all the time.
It's not an act. It's genuinely way beyond my ability to comprehend why you would do this as town and the fact that other people have done other stuff in the past that was also utterly ridiculous and then turned out to be actually town in those games doesn't change that. There's no way you would do this as town, it's very difficult to imagine scum not killing a claimed town PR for 4 days, and the fact that you're aware of how I react when players are obviously scum is even further proof that there's no way you would do this as town.
Again you keep using BS words like "proof" and "fact" and "obviously". You can't possibly expect us to take you seriously when you do that.
-
I'll actually
vote: silverspawn
I just don't like lynching Awaclus. I'd ask WW to vig him, but you know.
Why don't you like lynching Awaclus?
@Awaclus, I would like to hear what scum narrative you think fits what WW has done.
ppe: 2
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Because the 'confirmed scum' thing is an obvious act, and you do it as either alignment against town all the time.
It's not an act. It's genuinely way beyond my ability to comprehend why you would do this as town and the fact that other people have done other stuff in the past that was also utterly ridiculous and then turned out to be actually town in those games doesn't change that. There's no way you would do this as town, it's very difficult to imagine scum not killing a claimed town PR for 4 days, and the fact that you're aware of how I react when players are obviously scum is even further proof that there's no way you would do this as town.
The fact that he know you'll tunnel him makes this appealing to him as scum how ?
Well, now I'm getting mislynched over it so that's pretty good for him.
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@Awaclus, I would like to hear what scum narrative you think fits what WW has done.
That is super irrelevant. He can't be town and there are only two alignments in this game, therefore he must be scum.
-
Also Awaclus : face it, just because you make grand declarations about what town wouldn't do doesn't make them true. THe fact that you've been wrong about this in the past IS relevant. This is not an exact science.
@EFHW : Because we do it all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's a crapshoot. I feel more confident about silver because he should ahve made himself obtown somewhere along the way here, and he hasn't.
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Because the 'confirmed scum' thing is an obvious act, and you do it as either alignment against town all the time.
It's not an act. It's genuinely way beyond my ability to comprehend why you would do this as town and the fact that other people have done other stuff in the past that was also utterly ridiculous and then turned out to be actually town in those games doesn't change that. There's no way you would do this as town, it's very difficult to imagine scum not killing a claimed town PR for 4 days, and the fact that you're aware of how I react when players are obviously scum is even further proof that there's no way you would do this as town.
The fact that he know you'll tunnel him makes this appealing to him as scum how ?
Well, now I'm getting mislynched over it so that's pretty good for him.
You were the leading lynch with Egor before all this happened.
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@Awaclus, I would like to hear what scum narrative you think fits what WW has done.
That is super irrelevant. He can't be town and there are only two alignments in this game, therefore he must be scum.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.
Both are unlikely, that much is obvious. The question is which one is the unlikeliest. You don't get to go "well the town:narrative is unlikely, so we're done here", because if you do the same thing by starting with the scum!narrative, then WW is obvtown ! It's nonsensical.
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Teproc, why do you think RR is town? Do you agree with what I said before?
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I mean you may not agree that it's unlikely for scum!WW to do this, in which case you're wrong but fine. But pretending like the scum!narrative is irrelevant because the town!narrative is unlikely is you not trying. It's not you being down-to-earth or Occam's Razor or whatever it is you think you're doing better than everyone else, it's just being lazy.
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Also Awaclus : face it, just because you make grand declarations about what town wouldn't do doesn't make them true. THe fact that you've been wrong about this in the past IS relevant. This is not an exact science.
@EFHW : Because we do it all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's a crapshoot. I feel more confident about silver because he should ahve made himself obtown somewhere along the way here, and he hasn't.
it just sounds like silver has some irl stress going on. And I don't go along with "WW can't be town". Of course he can. He didn't think it through. So it's anti-town. But I don't see how scum benefit. And if Awaclus gets lynched, that's not b/c of anything WW did.
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I don't have a town read on RR.
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Teproc, why do you think RR is town? Do you agree with what I said before?
I think scum!RR would have been paralyzed by the XP/ash situation and wouldn't have dared to vote, basically. His reaction to the Hydrad mislynch read also very genuine to me. Thinking you're going to get lynched for getting it wrong is a typical town reaction.
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Thinking it through would have just given me a bunch of reasons not to do it~
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Teproc, why do you think RR is town? Do you agree with what I said before?
I think scum!RR would have been paralyzed by the XP/ash situation and wouldn't have dared to vote, basically. His reaction to the Hydrad mislynch read also very genuine to me. Thinking you're going to get lynched for getting it wrong is a typical town reaction.
I thought RR did wait quite a while to vote, until Ash seemed like it could actually happen.
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Also Awaclus : face it, just because you make grand declarations about what town wouldn't do doesn't make them true. THe fact that you've been wrong about this in the past IS relevant. This is not an exact science.
Oh yeah, I guess I should just vote randomly then instead of actually trying to find scum.
You were the leading lynch with Egor before all this happened.
Egor was the leading lynch, not me.
I mean you may not agree that it's unlikely for scum!WW to do this, in which case you're wrong but fine. But pretending like the scum!narrative is irrelevant because the town!narrative is unlikely is you not trying. It's not you being down-to-earth or Occam's Razor or whatever it is you think you're doing better than everyone else, it's just being lazy.
A scum narrative is inherently likely when a town narrative is not.
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Thinking it through would have just given me a bunch of reasons not to do it~
Funny how that works out.
PPE : You're right, but basically the ash vote is the only thing he's done that could make me think he's scum, and I'm not that convinced about it either. Everything else has been townie.
PPE2 : No but you should reconsider what you think to be obvious when it turns out to be wrong. And that second thing is only true if you're very confident about your initial analysis, so much so that you don't take the time to double-check by looking at the other narrative.
Basically you act as if verything was pretty simple and clear-cut, when you have been proven wrong so, so many times.
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Also Awaclus : face it, just because you make grand declarations about what town wouldn't do doesn't make them true. THe fact that you've been wrong about this in the past IS relevant. This is not an exact science.
Oh yeah, I guess I should just vote randomly then instead of actually trying to find scum.
You were the leading lynch with Egor before all this happened.
Egor was the leading lynch, not me.
I mean you may not agree that it's unlikely for scum!WW to do this, in which case you're wrong but fine. But pretending like the scum!narrative is irrelevant because the town!narrative is unlikely is you not trying. It's not you being down-to-earth or Occam's Razor or whatever it is you think you're doing better than everyone else, it's just being lazy.
A scum narrative is inherently likely when a town narrative is not.
You're not trying to find scum.
You and Egor were both at L-2.
The last statement makes me wonder if you ever actually believe the things you say.
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Unvote
Awaclus is scummy now. Not to the point where I'd start a wagon on him, but anti-town play is...you know, anti town. Why do we think SS is scum here? Cause he's quiet?
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Vote Count 4.4
EgorK: (1) ss
Awaclus: (2) EgorK, EFHW (L-2)
WW: (1) Awaclus
ss: (1) Teproc
Not Voting: (2) WW, RR
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Day4 will last 7 days and will end January 26 at 1:00 pm forum time.
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Oh, wait, I don't need to start a wagon. Now let's think about putting him at L-1. It seems lackluster though.
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I don't have a town read on RR.
I do.
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Unvote
Awaclus is scummy now. Not to the point where I'd start a wagon on him, but anti-town play is...you know, anti town. Why do we think SS is scum here? Cause he's quiet?
SS was on the Ash wagon, too.
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And with no content:
vote: ashersky
And after XP posted.
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Final Day2 Vote Count
XP (3): EgorK, gkrieg, ADK
ashersky (6): Teproc, XP, ss, Awaclus, RR, ashersky
Not Voting (2): WW, EFHW
With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.
ashersky has been lynched. He was a Town Rolecop.
Night2 will last for 48 hours. Night actions are due in 36 hours.
Thread Locked
Here was the Ash lynch. Only possible scum off wagon were Egor and EFHW (you guys can consider me).
That's interesting, actually.. would all scum jump on Ash with XP?
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And with no content:
vote: ashersky
And after XP posted.
Oh, snap. So now I have like null reads everywhere:
Towny-Null
Teproc
Egor
Null-Null:
EFHW
SS
Scummy-Null
Awaclus
WW
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Entirely possible.
If anyone is scum among those three, it's you by the way. I think.
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The above was in responde to WW.
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What makes you think EFHW is town?
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Entirely possible.
If anyone is scum among those three, it's you by the way. I think.
Who is this addressed to? And which 'three?'
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The above was in responde to WW.
Facepalm!
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What makes you think EFHW is town?
She's nullish. What makes you think she isn't town?
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Can someone point me to a game where EFHW was scum and acted similiar to her behavior now? If that makes any sense.
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PPE2 : No but you should reconsider what you think to be obvious when it turns out to be wrong. And that second thing is only true if you're very confident about your initial analysis, so much so that you don't take the time to double-check by looking at the other narrative.
Basically you act as if verything was pretty simple and clear-cut, when you have been proven wrong so, so many times.
I haven't been proven wrong that many times. A lot of the times when I was "wrong", I was actually scum so those don't count. I have also been right a fair number of times.
You're not trying to find scum.
Well, I've already found scum so I don't have to try too hard until we have to find the last one.
You and Egor were both at L-2.
I wasn't under any real pressure at that point, however, while Egor could have gotten hammered if, say, I had chosen to make that happen.
Unvote
Awaclus is scummy now. Not to the point where I'd start a wagon on him, but anti-town play is...you know, anti town. Why do we think SS is scum here? Cause he's quiet?
I'm not scummy and refusing to not vote for anyone except for the scum is not anti-town (I also did that yesterday and it turned out pretty well for town).
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So, I believe WW because if he is scum he made situation so much worse. Suppose he is not retracting his clai, we are evntually counterclaimed, and there are 1 scum among 3 claimed PRs and 1 among 4 claimed VTs. Now worse case scenario for town other PR just claim. We'd have 2 scum among 5 claimed VTs and 2 IC. Much better for town
So you're suggesting the other PR should claim?
No, I am not, that's worst case scenario if remaining PR.
I'd like more feedback on my original post from everyone please
PPE: 2 pages
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PPE2 : No but you should reconsider what you think to be obvious when it turns out to be wrong. And that second thing is only true if you're very confident about your initial analysis, so much so that you don't take the time to double-check by looking at the other narrative.
Basically you act as if verything was pretty simple and clear-cut, when you have been proven wrong so, so many times.
I haven't been proven wrong that many times. A lot of the times when I was "wrong", I was actually scum so those don't count. I have also been right a fair number of times.
You're not trying to find scum.
Well, I've already found scum so I don't have to try too hard until we have to find the last one.
You and Egor were both at L-2.
I wasn't under any real pressure at that point, however, while Egor could have gotten hammered if, say, I had chosen to make that happen.
Unvote
Awaclus is scummy now. Not to the point where I'd start a wagon on him, but anti-town play is...you know, anti town. Why do we think SS is scum here? Cause he's quiet?
I'm not scummy and refusing to not vote for anyone except for the scum is not anti-town (I also did that yesterday and it turned out pretty well for town).
Good job voting for confirmed scum. Let me dig out my town of the fucking year sticker for you.
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What makes you think EFHW is town?
She's nullish. What makes you think she isn't town?
I don't believe I said that she wasn't.
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Is this going to be a repeat of the Ash thing? Cause that's where this looks like it's headed.
Or let's consider this for two seconds: this is a mock fight between two scum
PPE
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uhhh meep
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uhhh meep
Obviously a scum slip.
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Is this going to be a repeat of the Ash thing? Cause that's where this looks like it's headed.
Or let's consider this for two seconds: this is a mock fight between two scum
PPE
Do you think that's likely? Which one would you rather lynch?
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well, I agree with this
and that WW is town. RR is town too and I think I found EFHW towny for a particular post that she did at some point. so that only leaves a couple of players.
who am I voting for right now? unvote
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So, I believe WW because if he is scum he made situation so much worse. Suppose he is not retracting his clai, we are evntually counterclaimed, and there are 1 scum among 3 claimed PRs and 1 among 4 claimed VTs. Now worse case scenario for town other PR just claim. We'd have 2 scum among 5 claimed VTs and 2 IC. Much better for town
So you're suggesting the other PR should claim?
No, I am not, that's worst case scenario if remaining PR.
I'd like more feedback on my original post from everyone please
PPE: 2 pages
Don't we have to have a remaining PR?
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well, I agree with this
and that WW is town. RR is town too and I think I found EFHW towny for a particular post that she did at some point. so that only leaves a couple of players.
who am I voting for right now? unvote
Can you explain why you voted Ash?
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I think awaclus is good... he's remaining after PoE and he's not me.
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So, I believe WW because if he is scum he made situation so much worse. Suppose he is not retracting his clai, we are evntually counterclaimed, and there are 1 scum among 3 claimed PRs and 1 among 4 claimed VTs. Now worse case scenario for town other PR just claim. We'd have 2 scum among 5 claimed VTs and 2 IC. Much better for town
So you're suggesting the other PR should claim?
No, I am not, that's worst case scenario if remaining PR.
I'd like more feedback on my original post from everyone please
PPE: 2 pages
Don't we have to have a remaining PR?
Oops. That was going to be "if remaining PR is under treat of lynching"
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Can you explain why you voted Ash?
yes. we can't let someone get away with quickhammering people whenever he likes to. it was a policy vote on a null read
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Can you explain why you voted Ash?
yes. we can't let someone get away with quickhammering people whenever he likes to. it was a policy vote on a null read
You do policy votes ?
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What makes you think EFHW is town?
Take a look at my post earlier today (game day) where I looked at reactions to ash vs XP. EFHW came off extremely townie in that. I thought she was scummy before doing that actually.
Also her completely flipping her read on me. A wise man once said only town does that. He's not so wise anymore, but he was (mostly) right there.
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Can you explain why you voted Ash?
yes. we can't let someone get away with quickhammering people whenever he likes to. it was a policy vote on a null read
Why not? He's effectively hammered scum that way before.
What makes you think EFHW is town?
Take a look at my post earlier today (game day) where I looked at reactions to ash vs XP. EFHW came off extremely townie in that. I thought she was scummy before doing that actually.
Also her completely flipping her read on me. A wise man once said only town does that. He's not so wise anymore, but he was (mostly) right there.
Right. That was my first reaction as well. Though, EFHW would be the kind of player to plan that behavior in the scum QT.
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Can you explain why you voted Ash?
yes. we can't let someone get away with quickhammering people whenever he likes to. it was a policy vote on a null read
Why not? He's effectively hammered scum that way before.
that's not a justification. Of course he hit scum at some point. He also said I was scum when I was last scum. does that justify tunneling me every game?
I think I made my intentions pretty clear day 1.
What makes you think EFHW is town?
Take a look at my post earlier today (game day) where I looked at reactions to ash vs XP. EFHW came off extremely townie in that. I thought she was scummy before doing that actually.
Also her completely flipping her read on me. A wise man once said only town does that. He's not so wise anymore, but he was (mostly) right there.
Right. That was my first reaction as well. Though, EFHW would be the kind of player to plan that behavior in the scum QT.
[/quote]
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well that second half was not supposed to be quoted there.
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Well, right, but I don't think it's that bad of a thing. But would you have lynched Ash there if Hydrad was scum?
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Teproc, why do you think RR is town? Do you agree with what I said before?
I think scum!RR would have been paralyzed by the XP/ash situation and wouldn't have dared to vote, basically. His reaction to the Hydrad mislynch read also very genuine to me. Thinking you're going to get lynched for getting it wrong is a typical town reaction.
I haven't seen him play town before. I'll look up a game.
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Teproc, why do you think RR is town? Do you agree with what I said before?
I think scum!RR would have been paralyzed by the XP/ash situation and wouldn't have dared to vote, basically. His reaction to the Hydrad mislynch read also very genuine to me. Thinking you're going to get lynched for getting it wrong is a typical town reaction.
I haven't seen him play town before. I'll look up a game.
This would've been nice to know ::)
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Checked out Marvel Heros, and RR is nothing like here. He votes independently, states opinions, tells people what to do! There is the occasional claim of being the worst player, but he is helpfully in the thick of things. I'm good with an RR lynch.
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What makes you think EFHW is town?
She's nullish. What makes you think she isn't town?
on what basis am I nullish? I've definitely been towny, so that must be balanced by some scumminess somewhere. What did you find scummy?
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Vote Count 4.5
Awaclus: (2) EgorK, EFHW (L-2)
WW: (1) Awaclus
ss: (1) Teproc
Not Voting: (3) WW, RR, ss
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Day4 will last 7 days and will end January 26 at 1:00 pm forum time.
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And with no content:
vote: ashersky
And after XP posted.
Oh, snap. So now I have like null reads everywhere:
Towny-Null
Teproc
Egor
Null-Null:
EFHW
SS
Scummy-Null
Awaclus
WW
How is it that you find Awaclus and WW simultaneously scummy, when each is trying to lynch the other?
-
And with no content:
vote: ashersky
And after XP posted.
Oh, snap. So now I have like null reads everywhere:
Towny-Null
Teproc
Egor
Null-Null:
EFHW
SS
Scummy-Null
Awaclus
WW
How is it that you find Awaclus and WW simultaneously scummy, when each is trying to lynch the other?
One is probably scum, or both. And disregarding their battle, they've both been sorta scummy.
-
What's your scum narrative for WW?
-
What's your scum narrative for WW?
Lying is scummy in my book.
Did you reread me? Find anything fun?
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When I say reread I mean reread another game I played as town.
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When I say reread I mean reread another game I played as town.7
Yeah dis you see my post about Marvel Heros?
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When I say reread I mean reread another game I played as town.7
Yeah dis you see my post about Marvel Heros?
No, I missed a few of your posts. Sorry.
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What's your scum narrative for WW?
Lying is scummy in my book.
Did you reread me? Find anything fun?
But what would have been scum!WW's motivation? Lying as town is ill advised, but it happens with alarming frequency.
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What makes you think EFHW is town?
She's nullish. What makes you think she isn't town?
on what basis am I nullish? I've definitely been towny, so that must be balanced by some scumminess somewhere. What did you find scummy?
Sorry EFHW, but you just do not seem overly towny. Nothing you've said has really stuck out as towny or scummy, so I dub thee null.
-
What's your scum narrative for WW?
Lying is scummy in my book.
Did you reread me? Find anything fun?
But what would have been scum!WW's motivation? Lying as town is ill advised, but it happens with alarming frequency.
If you 'lie as town' you're not a part of the town anymore in my opinion. That's not the way we do things if we want to win.
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Checked out Marvel Heros, and RR is nothing like here. He votes independently, states opinions, tells people what to do! There is the occasional claim of being the worst player, but he is helpfully in the thick of things. I'm good with an RR lynch.
Okay, now I get to spring my trap: read Switch Mafia. I'm different there than here or Marval. Read Simply Simple. I'm different there than Switch, here or Marval. Read Shakesphere semi-blitz. I act differently there than anywhere else. It's pretty cool in my opinion.
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What's your scum narrative for WW?
Lying is scummy in my book.
Did you reread me? Find anything fun?
But what would have been scum!WW's motivation? Lying as town is ill advised, but it happens with alarming frequency.
If you 'lie as town' you're not a part of the town anymore in my opinion. That's not the way we do things if we want to win.
That is not an answer. What I'm getting at is I think these are manufactured reads. I'll check out the other games, though.
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What's your scum narrative for WW?
Lying is scummy in my book.
Did you reread me? Find anything fun?
But what would have been scum!WW's motivation? Lying as town is ill advised, but it happens with alarming frequency.
If you 'lie as town' you're not a part of the town anymore in my opinion. That's not the way we do things if we want to win.
That is not an answer. What I'm getting at is I think these are manufactured reads. I'll check out the other games, though.
I'm saying people who lie as town are scummy. There are certain things scum does, lying is one of them.
I believe in policy lynches. Liars are people who should get policy lynched.
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What I'm getting at is I think these are manufactured reads.
That awkward moment when your reads are so bad they simply must be faked.
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Town has another problem. Why is did scum kill gkrieg, and why is Teproc still alive?
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Town has another problem. Why is did scum kill gkrieg, and why is Teproc still alive?
Do we still think Teproc is scum?
Maybe gkreig's reads were accurate? Or maybe they weren't accurate and scum is using reverse psychology. But they probably had a reason to kill him.
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Town has another problem. Why is did scum kill gkrieg, and why is Teproc still alive?
I have been wondering this and have not figured it out.
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Town has another problem. Why is did scum kill gkrieg, and why is Teproc still alive?
Wait...another problem?
I'm a problem??
PPE
-
WW, if you are actually a vig being fancy, I think you should come clean.
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Town has another problem. Why is did scum kill gkrieg, and why is Teproc still alive?
I have been wondering this and have not figured it out.
The killing if Gkrieg more than Teproc in particular being left alive. Town!Teproc does not always die early.
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WW, if you are actually a vig being fancy, I think you should come clean.
That would be awesome. Next time I'll line up the double bluff. More plot twists than an M Night Shyamalan marathon .
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Did he seem to breadcrumb a PR?
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I guess they could have believed I was about to lead a charge against Teproc, but gkrieg was supporting a Teproc lynch.
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I'll post my reads just so people know where I stand.
How did I go from being your only townread to being null null? You said I haven't been towny, in your opinion. vote: RR
Town:
EFHW
RR
Null:
Teproc
ss
Awaclus
Scummy:
WW
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Well scum is hunting PRs I guess, and probably expected me to be a lynch candidate today. Gkrieg is a bit of a strange choice though.
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So, I believe WW because if he is scum he made situation so much worse. Suppose he is not retracting his clai, we are evntually counterclaimed, and there are 1 scum among 3 claimed PRs and 1 among 4 claimed VTs. Now worse case scenario for town other PR just claim. We'd have 2 scum among 5 claimed VTs and 2 IC. Much better for town
I still want feedback on this
-
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.
-
Do people agree with this? Has it changed there read on WW?
-
I'll post my reads just so people know where I stand.
How did I go from being your only townread to being null null? You said I haven't been towny, in your opinion. vote: RR
Town:
EFHW
RR
Null:
Teproc
ss
Awaclus
Scummy:
WW
You stopped scumhunting and started RR targetting. If Haddock or Iguanaiguana were here, they'd tell you RR hunting is scummy.
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You start the game just as likely to roll scum as anyone else.
Just because you have an indecipherable meta doesn't make you town. You are probably town here, but still, come on.
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Vote Count 4.6
Awaclus: (1) EgorK
WW: (1) Awaclus
ss: (1) Teproc
RR: (1) EFHW
Not Voting: (3) WW, RR, ss
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Day4 will last 7 days and will end January 26 at 1:00 pm forum time.
-
You start the game just as likely to roll scum as anyone else.
Just because you have an indecipherable meta doesn't make you town. You are probably town here, but still, come on.
Yes, I have a chance to roll scum. But I don't feel like I did scummy stuff this game. And EFHW won't let it go, then it'll come down to MyLo, then we lose (assuming both me and EFHW are in the last three players).
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Not voting list is fantastic
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You start the game just as likely to roll scum as anyone else.
Just because you have an indecipherable meta doesn't make you town. You are probably town here, but still, come on.
Yes, I have a chance to roll scum. But I don't feel like I did scummy stuff this game. And EFHW won't let it go, then it'll come down to MyLo, then we lose (assuming both me and EFHW are in the last three players).
You worry too much about the possibility of your lynch at some point in the future if some stars align (not to mention EFHW would not just assume her read was correct all along in such a situation).
Worry about where we are now.
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I'm pretty much on {Silver, Awaclus, RR}, and I'm thinking RR less and less.
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I'm pretty much on {Silver, Awaclus, RR}, and I'm thinking RR less and less.
Why SS?
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Roadrunner change your avatar.
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I'm pretty much on {Silver, Awaclus, RR}, and I'm thinking RR less and less.
Why SS?
PoE. EFHW seems townie; I believe Egor; Teproc seems unlikely.
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I'm pretty much on {Silver, Awaclus, RR}, and I'm thinking RR less and less.
Why SS?
PoE. EFHW seems townie; I believe Egor; Teproc seems unlikely.
go for Awaclus then!
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Noticable things in Awaclus reread
- Not a lot of posts (38 since the game started, to be precise)
- Content-y style, for his standards
Awaclus turned the tide against ashersky. XP was at L-2 when Awaclus voted ash. Then RR did, and that set off the self-hammer.
@ Awaclus, why didn't you believe ashersky?
His posts that day felt like manipulation techniques to hide the truth rather than emphasize it, he had a reason to do it as scum, XP didn't stand out as scummy to me, and Teproc made good points against ash that I agreed with. To be completely honest, I was also intrigued by the idea of lynching the claimed PR first because I've never done that before and I wanted to try it out (but I still did believe that it had a pretty good chance of being the correct play, I wouldn't have done it otherwise).
- First real thing he does is hardcore commit to the WW tunneling, which is not good because WW is prob town. Also he's paranoid
Because the 'confirmed scum' thing is an obvious act, and you do it as either alignment against town all the time.
It's not an act. It's genuinely way beyond my ability to comprehend why you would do this as town and the fact that other people have done other stuff in the past that was also utterly ridiculous and then turned out to be actually town in those games doesn't change that. There's no way you would do this as town, it's very difficult to imagine scum not killing a claimed town PR for 4 days, and the fact that you're aware of how I react when players are obviously scum is even further proof that there's no way you would do this as town.
The fact that he know you'll tunnel him makes this appealing to him as scum how ?
Well, now I'm getting mislynched over it so that's pretty good for him.
And that's already it.
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well, I wouldn't bet a lot on Awaclus being scum here, but he makes for a better lynch than pretty much everyone else I think?
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I keep switching to page 1 to see which players are still alive... it'd be helpful to cross them out in the OP
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anyway let's do a silver style PoE
EgorK
Awaclus
Teproc
EFHW
WW
RR
silver
that's a lot of green.
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anyway let's do a silver style PoE
EgorK
Awaclus
Teproc
EFHW
WW
RR
silver
that's a lot of green.
What do you think of Egor's claim? Keep in mind that he would still think I was a Vig when he claimed.
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Noticable things on Egork reread
- 24 Posts
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
- scumslipped by saying he was bussing
- has a lot of content and makes sense. is this a scum!Egork or a town!Egork trait?
- claim
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I don't think the 'bus' thing was a scumslip; I specifically used the word, not him, and it easily means just 'voting' there. I don't think it indicates anything.
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What do you think of Egor's claim? Keep in mind that he would still think I was a Vig when he claimed.
Claims are confusing me this game, because I've been following so loosely. Let me try to get back into things.
PR/no PR list (not here => conf!nonPR)
WW - CLAIMED VT
EgorK - CLAIMED PR
roadrunner
silverspawn
awaclus
ashersky - Rolecop
ADK - Cop
Teproc
EFHW
Assuming we have 4 PRs (I don't understand why that's guaranteed from reading the setup, but it seems very likely), he claimed to be the fourth.
Don't really see anything that makes that unbelievable.
I don't think the 'bus' thing was a scumslip; I specifically used the word, not him, and it easily means just 'voting' there. I don't think it indicates anything.
yeah prob not
I think I'd make Egork mild town after this
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Go read the setup post more carefully. I believe Egor has claimed to not be a Cop, so there has to be 4 PRs if he's telling the truth.
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WW - CLAIMED VT
No, he claimed vig and then he was forced to admit he was lying.
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WW - CLAIMED VT
No, he claimed vig and then he was forced to admit he was lying.
Voluntarily forced.
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Thing is if this was anyone other than Awaclus they would get town points for this. Scum knows I'm town and generally has to gauge whether or not the mislynch looks reasonable. Awaclus would do this as either alignment.
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Thing is if this was anyone other than Awaclus they would get town points for this. Scum knows I'm town and generally has to gauge whether or not the mislynch looks reasonable. Awaclus would do this as either alignment.
I don't care about town points, I care about getting you lynched because town knows you're scum and you're not a mislynch.
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Thing is if this was anyone other than Awaclus they would get town points for this. Scum knows I'm town and generally has to gauge whether or not the mislynch looks reasonable. Awaclus would do this as either alignment.
I don't care about town points, I care about getting you lynched because town knows you're scum and you're not a mislynch.
Seriously fucking stop it. If you're trying to annoy me into voting for you, it will work. That can't be beneficial to you as either alignment.
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Thing is if this was anyone other than Awaclus they would get town points for this. Scum knows I'm town and generally has to gauge whether or not the mislynch looks reasonable. Awaclus would do this as either alignment.
I don't care about town points, I care about getting you lynched because town knows you're scum and you're not a mislynch.
Seriously fucking stop it. If you're trying to annoy me into voting for you, it will work. That can't be beneficial to you as either alignment.
I'll stop it when you're dead.
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No point.
Vote: Awaclus
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No point.
Vote: Awaclus
Nice OMGUS.
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My POE is the same, silver, RR, Awaclus. I think we get the most info from lynching Awaclus, I'm least in favor of lynching silver.
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Ignore list works well.
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My POE is the same, silver, RR, Awaclus. I think we get the most info from lynching Awaclus, I'm least in favor of lynching silver.
I think it has to be Silver or Awaclus. I don't really get any town impression from Silver; I think I actually might prefer him. The latest reread effort feels like "I have to start looking townie this game". I guess it could be done as town, too, but it does not feel particularly critical.
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Unvote
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How is WW not the only one in everyone's PoE list? Holy shit, if this is how it works, then I'm going to claim cop D1 in every game where I'm scum and as soon as I'm counterclaimed, I'll go "jokes on you I was a VT all along" because apparently that gives you permanent lynchproof.
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You start the game just as likely to roll scum as anyone else.
Just because you have an indecipherable meta doesn't make you town. You are probably town here, but still, come on.
Yes, I have a chance to roll scum. But I don't feel like I did scummy stuff this game. And EFHW won't let it go, then it'll come down to MyLo, then we lose (assuming both me and EFHW are in the last three players).
I am putting a lot of pressure on you b/c I see things that indicate scumminess to me, but that also gives you the chance to show me your investment in town and the depth of thinking that went into your decisions. Giving OMGUS as your reason for downgrading me from town to null is not towny. It's more like flailing. "RR hunting" will happen in every game at some point by someone.
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How is WW not the only one in everyone's PoE list? Holy shit, if this is how it works, then I'm going to claim cop D1 in every game where I'm scum and as soon as I'm counterclaimed, I'll go "jokes on you I was a VT all along" because apparently that gives you permanent lynchproof.
He is not on the POE list b/c no one has given a credible narrative of why scum!him would have lied about being a vig.
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Do people agree with this? Has it changed there read on WW?
I'm not sure I follow it, but I think you are saying that scum would not have a good reason to lie about being a vig. I agree with that.
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How is WW not the only one in everyone's PoE list? Holy shit, if this is how it works, then I'm going to claim cop D1 in every game where I'm scum and as soon as I'm counterclaimed, I'll go "jokes on you I was a VT all along" because apparently that gives you permanent lynchproof.
He is not on the POE list b/c no one has given a credible narrative of why scum!him would have lied about being a vig.
Because now nobody wants to lynch him.
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How is WW not the only one in everyone's PoE list? Holy shit, if this is how it works, then I'm going to claim cop D1 in every game where I'm scum and as soon as I'm counterclaimed, I'll go "jokes on you I was a VT all along" because apparently that gives you permanent lynchproof.
He is not on the POE list b/c no one has given a credible narrative of why scum!him would have lied about being a vig.
Because now nobody wants to lynch him.
That's circular.
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How is WW not the only one in everyone's PoE list? Holy shit, if this is how it works, then I'm going to claim cop D1 in every game where I'm scum and as soon as I'm counterclaimed, I'll go "jokes on you I was a VT all along" because apparently that gives you permanent lynchproof.
He is not on the POE list b/c no one has given a credible narrative of why scum!him would have lied about being a vig.
Because now nobody wants to lynch him.
That's circular.
No it's not. Him not getting lynched is apparently a direct result of him having a nonexistent town narrative, therefore it's extremely beneficial for scum!him to have a nonexistent town narrative.
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I'm sort of indifferent as I expect most PRS to lie, so there will be like 11 VTs, WW, and one more PR.
This is a bit of an odd statement. Could it indicate discussion of fake claims in scum QT?
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silverspawn - What do you think about Awaclus as possible scum?
RR - same question
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I'm sort of indifferent as I expect most PRS to lie, so there will be like 11 VTs, WW, and one more PR.
This is a bit of an odd statement. Could it indicate discussion of fake claims in scum QT?
I don't think so.
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You guys underestimate RR, I think.
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I only want to claim if like half the town is onboard. But with all these pros, shouldn't we just be able to find scum? I mean, I'll help as much as I can, but I'll probably just get in the way. Oh, and explaining my vote on Hydrad:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Umbrage%27s_Guide_on_How_to_Win_Scum_Games
I think links are allowed, but Hydrad seems like he's starting to do this, especially one and two. Since he is doing both one and two, I think he's just going down the list and hoping he can win this way.
So I had the idea initially that maybe RR was coached to do something like this (most likely coaching partner for such a thing would be EFHW or SS). However, he waited quite a while until this came up, and specifically on Hydrad. I think if he was planning to construct this 'read' through this link, he would have sprung it a bit sooner; most other people had claimed to believe me, and there was friendly joking going on. This feels more genuine.
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This is the first wagon I ever made, even though it's hardly a wagon. Anyone have thoughts on it?
I think its a good thing to do. But don't feel discouraged when I flip town. Keep trying to build cases and stuff even if your wrong sometimes.
So you just accept your death that probably won't even happen? Seems...bad? I don't want you to close up, and I don't want you to say, 'oh, RR doesn't know any better.' I'm going to scumhunt today, and I would hope that scum would try to defend themselves. I'm going to be the new Morgrim (not).
PPE 2
He has, apparently, been doing a lot of reading in his spare time.
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I only want to claim if like half the town is onboard. But with all these pros, shouldn't we just be able to find scum? I mean, I'll help as much as I can, but I'll probably just get in the way. Oh, and explaining my vote on Hydrad:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Umbrage%27s_Guide_on_How_to_Win_Scum_Games
I think links are allowed, but Hydrad seems like he's starting to do this, especially one and two. Since he is doing both one and two, I think he's just going down the list and hoping he can win this way.
So I had the idea initially that maybe RR was coached to do something like this (most likely coaching partner for such a thing would be EFHW or SS). However, he waited quite a while until this came up, and specifically on Hydrad. I think if he was planning to construct this 'read' through this link, he would have sprung it a bit sooner; most other people had claimed to believe me, and there was friendly joking going on. This feels more genuine.
There is no need for RR to be coached to come up with something like that. Like I say, you underestimate him. But, I don't find either example particularly scummy.
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Also that guide is terrible, I don't think anyone would give that to anyone as a coaching tool.
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You guys underestimate RR, I think.
Possible. I'm very curious about you reading him in MArvel Heroes and finding him very different because he seems exactly the same to me.
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I only want to claim if like half the town is onboard. But with all these pros, shouldn't we just be able to find scum? I mean, I'll help as much as I can, but I'll probably just get in the way. Oh, and explaining my vote on Hydrad:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Umbrage%27s_Guide_on_How_to_Win_Scum_Games
I think links are allowed, but Hydrad seems like he's starting to do this, especially one and two. Since he is doing both one and two, I think he's just going down the list and hoping he can win this way.
So I had the idea initially that maybe RR was coached to do something like this (most likely coaching partner for such a thing would be EFHW or SS). However, he waited quite a while until this came up, and specifically on Hydrad. I think if he was planning to construct this 'read' through this link, he would have sprung it a bit sooner; most other people had claimed to believe me, and there was friendly joking going on. This feels more genuine.
There is no need for RR to be coached to come up with something like that. Like I say, you underestimate him. But, I don't find either example particularly scummy.
Well, yes, he could have just been scanning Mafiascum. My thought was more that there was a discussion in scum QT and someone said "hey, you're still pretty new, I think this would be believable from you". I suppose I checked out Mafiascum heavily in my early games, though mostly for role definitions. I never came across that article.
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Also that guide is terrible, I don't think anyone would give that to anyone as a coaching tool.
In this scenario, it only has to make him look townie.
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You guys underestimate RR, I think.
Possible. I'm very curious about you reading him in MArvel Heroes and finding him very different because he seems exactly the same to me.
In Marvel Heroes he jumps in with both feet, with only the occasional self-deprecation. He takes chances and has opinions. And scumhunts, too. Has he done much by way of scumhunting here?
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Rereading Day 1 is moving RR to more town and EFHW/Teproc to less town.
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Also, silverspawn's reread of Awaclus feels pretty scummy to me... at the same time, scum does not want town!Awaclus dead, he's their best asset if he's town, so I'm not sure it fully makes sense for scum!silver to go after him. I guess he doesn't have a lot of other options, his meta makes it kinda hard to goa fter RR.
Checking mafiascum is an infinitely worse idea than reading agmes on fds, because those games are actually in our collective consciousness (the recent ones at least). If someone coached him by telling him to read that stuff, well they're not a good coach.
PPE : I don't remember him scumhunting that much in Marvel, no more than in this game : he did make a case on hydrad, and then well, no one scumhunted on days 2 and 3 because that's not how things were going.
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I hope you're joking. Do you think I would provide the link to the thing I was doing as scum?
Well, I think you totally would.
Vote: RR
vote: Awaclus
I agree Awaclus is wrong here, why does that merit a vote?
I think Xerxes is likely to say this about a partner.
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Also, silverspawn's reread of Awaclus feels pretty scummy to me... at the same time, scum does not want town!Awaclus dead, he's their best asset if he's town, so I'm not sure it fully makes sense for scum!silver to go after him. I guess he doesn't have a lot of other options, his meta makes it kinda hard to goa fter RR.
Checking mafiascum is an infinitely worse idea than reading agmes on fds, because those games are actually in our collective consciousness (the recent ones at least). If someone coached him by telling him to read that stuff, well they're not a good coach.
PPE : I don't remember him scumhunting that much in Marvel, no more than in this game : he did make a case on hydrad, and then well, no one scumhunted on days 2 and 3 because that's not how things were going.
I think you're missing the point. Not coaching to make him a better mafia player in general, but coaching to do something that makes him appear townie in this game in particular. And that was, generally, everyone's reaction.
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Actually let's
vote: Awaclus
As close to a policy vote as I'll ever get. Except I really am doing it for our chances to win this game : I think Awaclus, if he is town, will never be killed because scum know he'll never vote for anyone else than WW. Which, if WW is town, means that they win as soon as they get both of them to lylo.
And if he's town, well great.
PPE : Ah, I see. I guess.
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Might be L-1 ?
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Definitely L-1.
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ah, RR is obv!town again. that is good.
Hydrad I don't know.
uh vote: WW
Interesting. Why?
honestly, no idea.
oh he was the one who claimed. right.
well, I don't think claiming was good. but I do probably give it town points.
Well this is a bit townier from SS. You tend to pay attention to these things more as scum. Not sure it means much in this case, though.
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Or not. WW unvoted, nevermind.
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As close to a policy vote as I'll ever get. Except I really am doing it for our chances to win this game : I think Awaclus, if he is town, will never be killed because scum know he'll never vote for anyone else than WW. Which, if WW is town, means that they win as soon as they get both of them to lylo.
That won't happen because WW isn't town.
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It also won't happen because WW won't make it to LyLo.
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Also, that wagon looks awesome. WW, Tep, ADK, faust, and me? Cray-cray.
Huh, look at this. Teproc is only possible scum on that wagon. And, I talked him into jumping on.
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Also, that wagon looks awesome. WW, Tep, ADK, faust, and me? Cray-cray.
Huh, look at this. Teproc is only possible scum on that wagon. And, I talked him into jumping on.
You and RR are also possible scum on that wagon.
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RR is off my lynch table for today.
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RR is my partner.
Doesn't surprise me, honestly.
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I have a hard time seeing scum!Teproc argue so much with Ash's result. I think he'd play it as a careful/doubtful busser. That's the big thing keeping me away from Teproc.
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You would fakeclaim a guilty result here because
a) you know you're a likely lynch after that hammer.
b) many people here werein Marvel Heroes, in which scum fakeclaimed a guilty result on day 2, and you clearly said you thought it was a bad idea, so you're expecting us to believe you'd never do it
c) you have this theory that your scumteams do well when you get lynched early.
d) another one I'll talka about later, once XP has responded to this
Did you ever bring up what (d) was?
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RR is my partner.
Doesn't surprise me, honestly.
There should be a rule against tampering with quotes in this way.
vote: Awaclus. L-1
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Also, silverspawn's reread of Awaclus feels pretty scummy to me... at the same time, scum does not want town!Awaclus dead, he's their best asset if he's town, so I'm not sure it fully makes sense for scum!silver to go after him. I guess he doesn't have a lot of other options, his meta makes it kinda hard to goa fter RR.
Checking mafiascum is an infinitely worse idea than reading agmes on fds, because those games are actually in our collective consciousness (the recent ones at least). If someone coached him by telling him to read that stuff, well they're not a good coach.
PPE : I don't remember him scumhunting that much in Marvel, no more than in this game : he did make a case on hydrad, and then well, no one scumhunted on days 2 and 3 because that's not how things were going.
I was on phone, so I didn't read the whole thing. But here is an example - he started a wagon on Iguanaiguana without any concern. It didn't go to lynch, but there was none of the trepidation we saw here when he started the Hydrad wagon.
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Also, that wagon looks awesome. WW, Tep, ADK, faust, and me? Cray-cray.
Huh, look at this. Teproc is only possible scum on that wagon. And, I talked him into jumping on.
Ah, this wasn't the actual wagon order:
Final Day1 Vote Count
RR (2): EgorK, Awaclus
EFHW (1): gkrieg
WW (1): ss
hydrad (7): RR, Xerxes, WW, Teproc, ADK, faust, ashersky
gkrieg (1): EFHW
ss (1): Hydrad
Not Voting (0):
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Hydrad has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie
Night1 Begins Now. Night1 will last 48 hours, Night Actions due in 36 hours. Night actions due via either PM or via Private QT by 7:00 pm forum time 1/14/16. Night1 will end 7:00 am forum 1/15/16.
Thread Locked!
From my perspective...wagon is RR, XP, WW, Teproc, ADK for possible scum.
offwagon is EgorK, Awaclus, gkrieg, SS, EFHW
That's 50/50. I know XP is scum, I think the other two are off. It went too fast for an easy mislynch for scum.
Others will have other thoughts. It's a good split to have, though.
Okay, XP was on the Hydrad wagon.
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XP - Teproc - Awalclus is my call here.
I'm incredibly disgusted with what the f.ds norm has become.
Ash's final reads.
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Awaclus want to claim?
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XP - Teproc - Awalclus is my call here.
I'm incredibly disgusted with what the f.ds norm has become.
Ash's final reads.
Weird that ash blames town for lynching him, when he also thinks half the wagon was scum.
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Awaclus want to claim?
Yes.
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I'm the town Roleblocker, as I accidentally Freudian slipped here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14493.msg561198#msg561198
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Final Day2 Vote Count
XP (3): EgorK, gkrieg, ADK
ashersky (6): Teproc, XP, ss, Awaclus, RR, ashersky
Not Voting (2): WW, EFHW
With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch.
ashersky has been lynched. He was a Town Rolecop.
Night2 will last for 48 hours. Night actions are due in 36 hours.
Thread Locked
The final Ash vote. EFHW voted XP but then unvoted. Gkrieg town, Egor likely town. I still think one of XP's partners has to go for XP. Makes EFHW more suspicious.
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I'm the town Roleblocker, as I accidentally Freudian slipped here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14493.msg561198#msg561198
Tell us your night actions
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I'm the town Roleblocker, as I accidentally Freudian slipped here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14493.msg561198#msg561198
Tell us your night actions
I targeted XP after ash's flip. I didn't use my ability on other nights.
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Anyone going to counterclaim?
(Double gambit would have been awesome right now.)
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RR is my partner.
Doesn't surprise me, honestly.
There should be a rule against tampering with quotes in this way.
Why? I know that's not what he said, but it is what he meant.
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I'm the town Roleblocker, as I accidentally Freudian slipped here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14493.msg561198#msg561198
Tell us your night actions
I targeted XP after ash's flip. I didn't use my ability on other nights.
Why not anyone after the XP lynch?
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And, why did you target XP? What did you expect him to do that night?
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Also, no one hammer until everyone checks in, or better yet someone unvote.
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I'm the town Roleblocker, as I accidentally Freudian slipped here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14493.msg561198#msg561198
Tell us your night actions
I targeted XP after ash's flip. I didn't use my ability on other nights.
Why not anyone after the XP lynch?
I felt like it would not have been worth using the shots because I didn't feel like I had a good chance of doing much with my role and in the worst case scenario I might have blocked a town PR.
And, why did you target XP? What did you expect him to do that night?
I expected him to roleblock you.
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I'm the town Roleblocker, as I accidentally Freudian slipped here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14493.msg561198#msg561198
Tell us your night actions
I targeted XP after ash's flip. I didn't use my ability on other nights.
Why not anyone after the XP lynch?
I felt like it would not have been worth using the shots because I didn't feel like I had a good chance of doing much with my role and in the worst case scenario I might have blocked a town PR.
Who did you think was scum after XP lynch?
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Also, no one hammer until everyone checks in, or better yet someone unvote.
Boo. I was hoping someone would hammer and I wouldn't have to do this.
I'm a PR. One of {Egork, Awaclus} is lying. I think you know who my money is on.
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I'm the town Roleblocker, as I accidentally Freudian slipped here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14493.msg561198#msg561198
Tell us your night actions
I targeted XP after ash's flip. I didn't use my ability on other nights.
Why not anyone after the XP lynch?
I felt like it would not have been worth using the shots because I didn't feel like I had a good chance of doing much with my role and in the worst case scenario I might have blocked a town PR.
Who did you think was scum after XP lynch?
I remember having a town read on Teproc simply because everyone was setting up his lynch for today, but I'm not sure if I had any real scum reads.
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Also, roleblocking XP makes no sense right ? Since XP is the least likely player in the whole game to be performring the ill (not only because he's outed scum, but mostly because he's a roleblocker himself).
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Also, no one hammer until everyone checks in, or better yet someone unvote.
Boo. I was hoping someone would hammer and I wouldn't have to do this.
I'm a PR. One of {Egork, Awaclus} is lying. I think you know who my money is on.
Well, it should be on EgorK.
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I mean, problem with not getting wagon can still outweight this, but this is definately benefit
On the other hand I think I am ok with PR/nonPR claim
Worth noting: a PR is going to be a little more likely to be against the plan, I think.
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Also, no one hammer until everyone checks in, or better yet someone unvote.
Boo. I was hoping someone would hammer and I wouldn't have to do this.
I'm a PR. One of {Egork, Awaclus} is lying. I think you know who my money is on.
Well, it should be on EgorK.
How do you know Teproc can't be lying?
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Also, roleblocking XP makes no sense right ? Since XP is the least likely player in the whole game to be performring the ill (not only because he's outed scum, but mostly because he's a roleblocker himself).
I wanted to roleblock his roleblocking so WW's kill could get through. Turns out WW didn't have a kill though, but I didn't know that.
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Also, no one hammer until everyone checks in, or better yet someone unvote.
Boo. I was hoping someone would hammer and I wouldn't have to do this.
I'm a PR. One of {Egork, Awaclus} is lying. I think you know who my money is on.
Well, it should be on EgorK.
How do you know Teproc can't be lying?
I don't, but Teproc's probably not going to put his money on himself being the one lying.
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Interesting. Teproc, had you used your power N2?
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Should Teproc/Egor full claim at this point?
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Also, no one hammer until everyone checks in, or better yet someone unvote.
Boo. I was hoping someone would hammer and I wouldn't have to do this.
I'm a PR. One of {Egork, Awaclus} is lying. I think you know who my money is on.
Well, it should be on EgorK.
How do you know Teproc can't be lying?
I don't, but Teproc's probably not going to put his money on himself being the one lying.
Not my point.
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Also, no one hammer until everyone checks in, or better yet someone unvote.
Boo. I was hoping someone would hammer and I wouldn't have to do this.
I'm a PR. One of {Egork, Awaclus} is lying. I think you know who my money is on.
Well, it should be on EgorK.
How do you know Teproc can't be lying?
I don't, but Teproc's probably not going to put his money on himself being the one lying.
I realize I was being unclear there, what I meant was that I think my narrative makes me rather obviously town, not that EgorK's claim is particularly suspicious (I'm not sure what to think of the situation now that there's confirmed scum outside of WW).
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Interesting. Teproc, had you used your power N2?
I'm not sure I want to answer that. Pretty sure it's only worth it if we're fullclaiming, and in thise case, well, I'd rather you went first obviously.
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Awaclus, why had you full claimed before counterclaim came in?
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Interesting. Teproc, had you used your power N2?
I'm not sure I want to answer that. Pretty sure it's only worth it if we're fullclaiming, and in thise case, well, I'd rather you went first obviously.
I would not claim before you and have compelling reason to do so which town would be able to deem appropriate
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Awaclus, why had you full claimed before counterclaim came in?
Because I'm town and I wanted to get as much information out as possible with as little time to think as possible in order to prove that.
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EFHW?
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Interesting. Teproc, had you used your power N2?
I'm not sure I want to answer that. Pretty sure it's only worth it if we're fullclaiming, and in thise case, well, I'd rather you went first obviously.
I would not claim before you and have compelling reason to do so which town would be able to deem appropriate
Huh ? You'd have compelling reason to do so as scum too, so we'll have to let the rest of town decide this if it comes to that.
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EFHW?
Do you expect her to claim PR too ?
@EgorK : Good point about the full claim, no way town!Awaclus fullclaims there, claiming PR is enough to clear him.
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EFHW?
Do you expect her to claim PR too ?
@EgorK : Good point about the full claim, no way town!Awaclus fullclaims there, claiming PR is enough to clear him.
No, I want to hear what she thinks. She's gone silent.
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@EgorK : Good point about the full claim, no way town!Awaclus fullclaims there, claiming PR is enough to clear him.
Are you kidding me? Either you're scum or this is the most obvious case of confirm bias I've ever seen.
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Interesting. Teproc, had you used your power N2?
I'm not sure I want to answer that. Pretty sure it's only worth it if we're fullclaiming, and in thise case, well, I'd rather you went first obviously.
I would not claim before you and have compelling reason to do so which town would be able to deem appropriate
Huh ? You'd have compelling reason to do so as scum too, so we'll have to let the rest of town decide this if it comes to that.
What the problem? Town'll just lynch me if reason supplied by me is not appropriate
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@EgorK : Good point about the full claim, no way town!Awaclus fullclaims there, claiming PR is enough to clear him.
Are you kidding me? Either you're scum or this is the most obvious case of confirm bias I've ever seen.
I'm dead serious. If you were town, here's how it would look for you ;
There are three confirmed PRs + one claimed one. If EgorK is telling the truth, claiming PR is enough to clear you.
If not, well it means one of {EgorK, other claimant} is scum, and that's pretty nice since we're not a mylo, from your perspective.
So why claim more than PR ? If you were a town PR, you would definitely not want scum to now what PR you are.
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Interesting. Teproc, had you used your power N2?
I'm not sure I want to answer that. Pretty sure it's only worth it if we're fullclaiming, and in thise case, well, I'd rather you went first obviously.
I would not claim before you and have compelling reason to do so which town would be able to deem appropriate
Huh ? You'd have compelling reason to do so as scum too, so we'll have to let the rest of town decide this if it comes to that.
What the problem? Town'll just lynch me if reason supplied by me is not appropriate
Fine. I did use my power on night 2.
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Also, no one hammer until everyone checks in, or better yet someone unvote.
Boo. I was hoping someone would hammer and I wouldn't have to do this.
I'm a PR. One of {Egork, Awaclus} is lying. I think you know who my money is on.
If you are PR, and you believed Egork and WW, which you seemed to do, you should have stopped believing one of them as soon as EgorK claimed.
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Also, no one hammer until everyone checks in, or better yet someone unvote.
Boo. I was hoping someone would hammer and I wouldn't have to do this.
I'm a PR. One of {Egork, Awaclus} is lying. I think you know who my money is on.
If you are PR, and you believed Egork and WW, which you seemed to do, you should have stopped believing one of them as soon as EgorK claimed.
Had Awaclus softclaimed before ? If not I don't follow.
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I missed everything.
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I'm ready to lynch Awaclus.
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I find no significance in Awaclus full-claiming right off. It might not be the best strategy-wise, but since when do we all play optimum strategy?
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Also, no one hammer until everyone checks in, or better yet someone unvote.
Boo. I was hoping someone would hammer and I wouldn't have to do this.
I'm a PR. One of {Egork, Awaclus} is lying. I think you know who my money is on.
If you are PR, and you believed Egork and WW, which you seemed to do, you should have stopped believing one of them as soon as EgorK claimed.
Had Awaclus softclaimed before ? If not I don't follow.
Wait, no, I see what you mean. I was thinking about claiming, I wanted to check something before. I wanted to check if WW had shot before to see if I believed him and could get him lynched without having to claim.
I would have claimed after WW answered that, and he did by claiming VT.
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Teproc, was there any anomalies?
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So, EFHW is buttering me up, that's cool.
Awaclus is a roleblocker, I think he's a lying VT just so he can go out with a bang. Seems Awaclusy.
Only EFHW still wants to lynch me soon, but if I make it to MyLo, I'm probably dead regardless who is left.
People talk about me going on MafiaScum.
Other stuff happened.
I'm probably not going to hammer. We have tons of time.
PPE 4
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I find no significance in Awaclus full-claiming right off. It might not be the best strategy-wise, but since when do we all play optimum strategy?
I don't know how you think when you have a PR, but I'm always scared of revealing too much. Here I'm looking at two other PRs, one of them exhibiting that typical town!PR behavior (EgorK), the other one not. So it is significant to me, not just because it's not optimal, but because scum likes to claim cleanly because they don't have to think about replicating town's train of though for a long period of time.
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Egor, Teproc, is there anything that needs to be reported before the day ends?
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RR, you do not make sense. So you say Awaclus as VT would risk killing PR here with false claim right after he just said that town VT would never claim PR?
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Egor, Teproc, is there anything that needs to be reported before the day ends?
What? We have time!
Why is hammering here a good idea?
PPE
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Teproc, was there any anomalies?
Yes.
PPE : Currently thinking about it.
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Egor, Teproc, is there anything that needs to be reported before the day ends?
What? We have time!
Why is hammering here a good idea?
PPE
Why is it not?
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RR, you do not make sense. So you say Awaclus as VT would risk killing PR here with false claim right after he just said that town VT would never claim PR?
He's doing to spite us all. Awaclus probably thinks/knows he's dead, so why not go out with a bang to show everyone how stupid they are?
PPE 2
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Egor, Teproc, is there anything that needs to be reported before the day ends?
What? We have time!
Why is hammering here a good idea?
PPE
Why is it not?
We can keep talking until the 27th, or we can just let scum make a kill easier.
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Egor, Teproc, is there anything that needs to be reported before the day ends?
Thought about it, and no. THe only way it could be useful is if it could disprove EgorK's claim, and that won't be relevant if we lynch Awaclus anyway, because either he flips scum and EgorK is basically conf!town, or he flips town and he's conf!scum, at least to me, and to everyone if I die.
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Well, then I guess we can confirm each other's claims, so guys, just lynch Awa
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One of Awaclus or RR needs to chnge its avatar.
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Vote: Awaclus
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RR, you do not make sense. So you say Awaclus as VT would risk killing PR here with false claim right after he just said that town VT would never claim PR?
He's doing to spite us all. Awaclus probably thinks/knows he's dead, so why not go out with a bang to show everyone how stupid they are?
PPE 2
You understand that dead townies still win with town?
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One of Awaclus or RR needs to chnge its avatar.
More like both
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RR, you do not make sense. So you say Awaclus as VT would risk killing PR here with false claim right after he just said that town VT would never claim PR?
He's doing to spite us all. Awaclus probably thinks/knows he's dead, so why not go out with a bang to show everyone how stupid they are?
PPE 2
You understand that dead townies still win with town?
Yes I do. So?
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EFHW for Awaclus' partner.
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One of Awaclus or RR needs to chnge its avatar.
More like both
Blame peer pressure.
PPE
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Well, then I guess we can confirm each other's claims, so guys, just lynch Awa
We can ?
I guess Awaclus is lynched, so it doesn't matter, but I'm not sure.
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Well, then I guess we can confirm each other's claims, so guys, just lynch Awa
We can ?
I guess Awaclus is lynched, so it doesn't matter, but I'm not sure.
Not like super-duper confirm, but still
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Flippy flop.
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And yes, not like it matter anymore, unless tomorrow someone will show up with yet another claim
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Rule Update: Players must have avatars that are unique to themselves. If multiple players have the same avatar and neither are willing to change they will both be mod killed.
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Hm, I guess Silver didn't post since Awaclus claim.
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Fine, Yuma.
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Ok, I think I got it EgorK. Good, I was starting to go crazy thinking your claim didn't make sense for any role (because my first thought would have made you claim on D3), but I found it, so we should be good here.
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I'm dead serious. If you were town, here's how it would look for you ;
There are three confirmed PRs + one claimed one. If EgorK is telling the truth, claiming PR is enough to clear you.
If not, well it means one of {EgorK, other claimant} is scum, and that's pretty nice since we're not a mylo, from your perspective.
So why claim more than PR ? If you were a town PR, you would definitely not want scum to now what PR you are.
I'm town and here's how it looked for me:
Nobody is listening to me, everyone wants to lynch me, if I claim, a scum can easily counterclaim me and then I get lynched. Which is apparently what happened anyway.
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Is this better? Poor Roadrunner just lost his individuality. The only thing that kept him sane.
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OH actually there's even two possibilites, duh. Though that second one would need some weird choices on your part.
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Final Day4 Vote Count
Awaclus: (4) EgorK, Teproc, EFHW, WW
WW: (1) Awaclus
Not Voting: (2) RR, ss
With 7 alive it took 4 to lynch.
Awaclus has been lynched. He was a Mafia Shot Changer.
Night4 will last between 36 and 48 hours. Night actions are due in 36 hours.
Thread Locked!
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Day5 Starts Now!
Teproc died during the night. He was a Town Watcher.
Vote Count 5.0
Not Voting: (5) EFHW, RR, EgorK, ss, WW
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Day5 will last 7 days and will end January 30 at 11:59 forum time.
Thread Unlocked!
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Hm. Anything of note, Egor?
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Go on for now, I'll be away for 24 hours. I do have some results, but I want to WIFOM for a little while
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uh :(
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I'm still good with an RR lynch.
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it is weird that RR didn't get NKd
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vote: RR
PPE : huh?
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He was the towniest player... I think you were the only one who wanted to vote for him
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and town!RR is historically very hard to mislynch.
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No way. Teproc was a very towny PR.
Tell me what makes RR seem so towny to you guys, because to me everything points to scummy.
Anyway, he wouldn't be the nk because he is the last scum.
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Seriously, tell me one towny thing he has done, besides the self-flagellation about the Hydrad mislynch, and that was over the top imo.
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did Teproc breadcrumb is PR?
I don't think RR did towny things in the classic sense. but town!RR is never towny, so doing towny things isn't a towntell
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I can dig out some examples, but first I want to hear Egork's claim
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did Teproc breadcrumb is PR?
I don't think RR did towny things in the classic sense. but town!RR is never towny, so doing towny things isn't a towntell
Teproc claimed a PR!
You still haven't pointed to anything towny. According to him, he is different in every game.
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EgorK won't be back for 24 hours.
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It's him or you. You could be white knighting.
Who do you think is scummy?
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I don't think it's either of us
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It's him or you. You could be white knighting.
Who do you think is scummy?
probably you if you take that argument seriously.
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I know that, but who do you suspect and why?
PPE Let me guess, I've been too towny. Because for me towniness is a scum tell and for RR scumminess is a towntell.
Also, WW and Teproc had the same POE as I do.
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If you were scum, the smarter strategy would be to agree with me.
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I know that, but who do you suspect and why?
PPE Let me guess, I've been too towny. Because for me towniness is a scum tell and for RR scumminess is a towntell.
Also, WW and Teproc had the same POE as I do.
no, it's just really dumb to suggest white-knighting.
Let's say I am the last scum.
White knighting would mean protecting RR in the hopes that, if he gets lynched anyway, I get towncred and win at LyLo. nevermind that I wouldn't even get towncred for it, but let's say I would.
I won't vote for RR. RR won't vote for RR. So I need everyone else to vote for the one player that I'm defending.
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If you were scum, the smarter strategy would be to agree with me.
I wouldn't know.
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but it prob is RR or you just based on PoE. Unless Egork is lying after all
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<3 SS. But man, EFHW, it's okay to find me scummy, but at least have a backup plan. Is there anyone else that you're okay with lynching?
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but it prob is RR or you just based on PoE. Unless Egork is lying after all
Please articulate the scenarios where EgorK is lying.
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Vote Count 5.1
RR (1): EFHW
Not Voting: (4) RR, EgorK, ss, WW
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Day5 will last 7 days and will end January 30 at 11:59 forum time.
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Wait a minute. Even though she probably isn't, let's assume EFHW is scum. She'd need to save her NK for Egor, but who does she need to get lynched? Roadrunner! Most people think I'm pretty towny and if she made it to LyLo with Roadrunner then Roadrunner would go after her because she had been going after Roadrunner or something like that. None of us really know Roadrunner's thought process. But EFHW is gettibg scummier to me, I don't know about you guys. Of course, if I'm wrong and EFHW gets lynched, everyone kills me tomorrow and town loses. So I'm not going to take a strong standpoint on this, I jut want to make this observation.
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Wait a minute. Even though she probably isn't, let's assume EFHW is scum. She'd need to save her NK for Egor, but who does she need to get lynched? Roadrunner! Most people think I'm pretty towny and if she made it to LyLo with Roadrunner then Roadrunner would go after her because she had been going after Roadrunner or something like that. None of us really know Roadrunner's thought process. But EFHW is gettibg scummier to me, I don't know about you guys. Of course, if I'm wrong and EFHW gets lynched, everyone kills me tomorrow and town loses. So I'm not going to take a strong standpoint on this, I jut want to make this observation.
How are you different from Silverspawn there?
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Wait a minute. Even though she probably isn't, let's assume EFHW is scum. She'd need to save her NK for Egor, but who does she need to get lynched? Roadrunner! Most people think I'm pretty towny and if she made it to LyLo with Roadrunner then Roadrunner would go after her because she had been going after Roadrunner or something like that. None of us really know Roadrunner's thought process. But EFHW is gettibg scummier to me, I don't know about you guys. Of course, if I'm wrong and EFHW gets lynched, everyone kills me tomorrow and town loses. So I'm not going to take a strong standpoint on this, I jut want to make this observation.
How are you different from Silverspawn there?
Who has expressed strong town reads on SS? I mean, I'd try not to vote for him because he's nice to me, but what he's doing to me screams WIFOM.
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but it prob is RR or you just based on PoE. Unless Egork is lying after all
Please articulate the scenarios where EgorK is lying.
he's a tracker and saw me targeting Teproc. Then he's lying.
well, not really.
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but it prob is RR or you just based on PoE. Unless Egork is lying after all
Please articulate the scenarios where EgorK is lying.
he's a tracker and saw me targeting Teproc. Then he's lying.
well, not really.
Are you softclaiming 5th PR?
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but it prob is RR or you just based on PoE. Unless Egork is lying after all
Please articulate the scenarios where EgorK is lying.
he's a tracker and saw me targeting Teproc. Then he's lying.
well, not really.
Not exactly what I was getting at....
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I mean, I guess it could be
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Are you softclaiming 5th PR?
I'm softclaiming to be an idiot
Egork should claaaaim
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Are you softclaiming 5th PR?
I'm softclaiming to be an idiot
Egork should claaaaim
I think you should claim now, actually.
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Are you softclaiming 5th PR?
I'm softclaiming to be an idiot
Egork should claaaaim
I think you should claim now, actually.
I agree with WW.
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hey, I could just not have said anything and let egork claim first. if he says the right thing, I can confirm you that he's scum, which, with 5 players left, means we have a guaranteed win. let him claim first.
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Vote: ss
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vote: eg... well no because I'm pretty sure you're town.
sure so, as you prob inferred i'm a PR and targeted Teproc. but that's all I'll say until you claim.
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and if you do not have the tracker result on me, I don't even know why we're arguing
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this was probably not smartly done, in retrospect. I was panicking at the thought of a possible tracker result, and thought if I do weird pre claims maybe the chance of making you believe me increases if said result is in fact there, since as scum it's so much better to just wait, given that the result isn't even likely to exist, but now it seems like I could be in trouble even if it does not exist.
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and uhhh the action was also not smartly used. pretty much everything I've done this game isn't very smart.
well regardless of that we could still win so please just CLAIM so I finally know what's going on .
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From the OP:
"5. If town receives no 1, 2 or 3s (Cop, Vig, JK) in its first four rolls then the town will receive an extra fifth roll."
Now that we know WW is NOT a vig, it is possible again to have 5 PR's. That would mean that we got a cop after all the other 4 roles were in 4-10.
But man, it's usually scum that get freaked out by the possibility of a tracker.
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But man, it's usually scum that get freaked out by the possibility of a tracker.
it's so much worse to use your PR in the worst way possible potentially causing a mislynch on top of wasting your role than it is to be accurately tracked when you're killing someone. in the latter case I'd just be dead, nothing to be ashamed of, and zero chance for survival anyway given that town has 2 lynches left.
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but it prob is RR or you just based on PoE. Unless Egork is lying after all
Please articulate the scenarios where EgorK is lying.
he's a tracker and saw me targeting Teproc. Then he's lying.
well, not really.
vote: eg... well no because I'm pretty sure you're town.
sure so, as you prob inferred i'm a PR and targeted Teproc. but that's all I'll say until you claim.
These two quotes seem to directly contradict each other.
PPE: Do you need to wait for EgorK to claim? Maybe we want him to be able to catch you in a lie, and if you think he is town then you don't expect to catch him in one.
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I would prefer for silver to claim before EgorK.
-
but with what you just said you removed the remaining odds of Egork claiming one of {1,2,3} which would out him as scum so claiming order doesn't really matter anymore (ofc I ruined the primary chance by claiming PR for no reason...)
so there are 2 cases, egork is lying or egork is not lying
a) means the fifth PR came to pass in the way you described. that's 70%^4 = 24%, which is not very high
b) means the entire claim is made up. is there any reason to believe that this isn't the case?
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Wait a minute. Even though she probably isn't, let's assume EFHW is scum. She'd need to save her NK for Egor, but who does she need to get lynched? Roadrunner! Most people think I'm pretty towny and if she made it to LyLo with Roadrunner then Roadrunner would go after her because she had been going after Roadrunner or something like that. None of us really know Roadrunner's thought process. But EFHW is gettibg scummier to me, I don't know about you guys. Of course, if I'm wrong and EFHW gets lynched, everyone kills me tomorrow and town loses. So I'm not going to take a strong standpoint on this, I jut want to make this observation.
You don't get lynched for being wrong. And my suspecting you doesn't make me scummy. I have reasons for my suspicions, and you just give me more OMGUS which encourages me further.
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These two quotes seem to directly contradict each other.
no they pretty much say the same thing
PPE: Do you need to wait for EgorK to claim? Maybe we want him to be able to catch you in a lie, and if you think he is town then you don't expect to catch him in one.
that won't happen, but... sure why not.
I'm a Roleblocker
I didn't use my power N1.
I didn't use my power N2
I didn't use my power N3.
I targeted Teproc N4.
I didn't remember/read/something that he claimed a PR, and he's scary as scum so... meep.
-
like I said I didn't play very good...
-
b) means the entire claim is made up. is there any reason to believe that this isn't the case?
His claim or yours? Pretty symmetrical situation here.
You did have a chance of catching him in a lie if he picked Cop, Vig or JK as his fakeclaim, but not now. And your claim is more suspicious than his, given the way it is coming out. So I think you should claim first.
PPE: I see you have claimed.
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like I said I didn't play very good...
I would have been suspicious if you said you used your role nights 1-3 given how fuzzy you are about this game. Teproc had to be the towniest person here, but I also had moments of suspecting him. Did he seem the scummiest of everyone? It's the nk you would want to block.
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These two quotes seem to directly contradict each other.
no they pretty much say the same thing
I don't see how ...
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Spoiler tags are not allowed. So the last scum is a cop or a bus driver or something bad for us, right?
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Um, don't we have two lynches left?
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Spoiler tags are not allowed. So the last scum is a cop or a bus driver or something bad for us, right?
I don't actually think it matters.
-
Egor go ahead and full claim.
-
Spoiler tags are not allowed. So the last scum is a cop or a bus driver or something bad for us, right?
I don't actually think it matters.
It's was off putting. Does he expect that scum won't click on the spoiler tag?
PPE
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Teproc had to be the towniest person here
There was this game I modded, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13434.0) where Teproc was the towniest player ever and also scum, and everyone in the speccy expected him to be town or win as scum, and since then I'm paranoid of towny!teproc
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Spoiler tags are not allowed. So the last scum is a cop or a bus driver or something bad for us, right?
If EgorK is tracker or rolecop, then yes, scum have bus driver. If he is something bringing in 3 shots then scum have rolecop.
I don't think either of those can really do us much harm at this point.
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Spoiler tags are not allowed. So the last scum is a cop or a bus driver or something bad for us, right?
If EgorK is tracker or rolecop, then yes, scum have bus driver. If he is something bringing in 3 shots then scum have rolecop.
I don't think either of those can really do us much harm at this point.
I think a bus driver could screw with us a little.
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It doesn't even matter what the PR is. One of Egor/SS is 100% scum, and we have two lynches left.
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It doesn't even matter what the PR is. One of Egor/SS is 100% scum, and we have two lynches left.
What do you suggest? Like, lynch SS today and Egor tomorrow? But didn't EFHW say something about how there could be five PRs?
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It doesn't even matter what the PR is. One of Egor/SS is 100% scum, and we have two lynches left.
What do you suggest? Like, lynch SS today and Egor tomorrow? But didn't EFHW say something about how there could be five PRs?
Go read the setup and tell me what you think.
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Ah okay maybe it is possible.
If town receives no 1, 2 or 3s (Cop, Vig, JK) in its first four rolls then the town will receive an extra fifth roll. However, this additional roll will bring in zero additional shots for town. If a 1, 2, or 3 is rolled for the fifth shot, 2 shots will be removed from the town total.
Example4: Role: 6, 4, 4, 10 extra roll is 9 = BG (3), RB (3), RB (3), Shot Changer (2) + extra roll: 9 = Rolecop (0) for a total of 11 shots.
Example5: Role: 4, 6, 5, 10 extra roll is 2 = RB (3), BG (3), Watcher (3), Shot Changer (2) + extra roll: 2 = Vig (-2) for a total of 9 shots.
So the fifth roll could have been Cop.
At any rate, Egor should full claim.
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Ah okay maybe it is possible.
If town receives no 1, 2 or 3s (Cop, Vig, JK) in its first four rolls then the town will receive an extra fifth roll. However, this additional roll will bring in zero additional shots for town. If a 1, 2, or 3 is rolled for the fifth shot, 2 shots will be removed from the town total.
Example4: Role: 6, 4, 4, 10 extra roll is 9 = BG (3), RB (3), RB (3), Shot Changer (2) + extra roll: 9 = Rolecop (0) for a total of 11 shots.
Example5: Role: 4, 6, 5, 10 extra roll is 2 = RB (3), BG (3), Watcher (3), Shot Changer (2) + extra roll: 2 = Vig (-2) for a total of 9 shots.
So the fifth roll could have been Cop.
At any rate, Egor should full claim.
So there could be a fifth role?
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Ah okay maybe it is possible.
that's what I just mathed out above. 25% is meh.
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Voting for Egor or SS today seems sort of reasonable.
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Ah okay maybe it is possible.
If town receives no 1, 2 or 3s (Cop, Vig, JK) in its first four rolls then the town will receive an extra fifth roll. However, this additional roll will bring in zero additional shots for town. If a 1, 2, or 3 is rolled for the fifth shot, 2 shots will be removed from the town total.
Example4: Role: 6, 4, 4, 10 extra roll is 9 = BG (3), RB (3), RB (3), Shot Changer (2) + extra roll: 9 = Rolecop (0) for a total of 11 shots.
Example5: Role: 4, 6, 5, 10 extra roll is 2 = RB (3), BG (3), Watcher (3), Shot Changer (2) + extra roll: 2 = Vig (-2) for a total of 9 shots.
So the fifth roll could have been Cop.
At any rate, Egor should full claim.
Since it is possible, that means it is not a 100% choice between EgorK and silver today. RR is still very much a good lynch. Really.
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EFHW, RR, are you both claiming VT?
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EFHW, RR, are you both claiming VT?
Yes, I am a VT.
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<3 SS. But man, EFHW, it's okay to find me scummy, but at least have a backup plan. Is there anyone else that you're okay with lynching?
My other choices are: WW, EgorK, silver. WW would be playing a very long game if he were scum. Not his style. I don't know EgorK at all. He has seemed mild-mannered and towny in this game. silver is so confused, I think he would be paying more attention if he were scum. He likes to create "towntells", I suppose, but he's being so consistently muddled it seems genuine to me. That leaves you.
If someone can say more about EgorK's usual style that would help, I guess.
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EFHW, RR, are you both claiming VT?
Yes.
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<3 SS. But man, EFHW, it's okay to find me scummy, but at least have a backup plan. Is there anyone else that you're okay with lynching?
My other choices are: WW, EgorK, silver. WW would be playing a very long game if he were scum. Not his style. I don't know EgorK at all. He has seemed mild-mannered and towny in this game. silver is so confused, I think he would be paying more attention if he were scum. He likes to create "towntells", I suppose, but he's being so consistently muddled it seems genuine to me. That leaves you.
If someone can say more about EgorK's usual style that would help, I guess.
So I'm just the best of bad options? I feel so special.
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Egor's usual style is lurky, not very open or helpful/pro-town. His play here seems like town him.
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Rereading EgorK I notice that he voted Awaclus early on Day 4 and in doing so mentioned that Awaclus had unvoted from XP at one point. This seems like something a partner would not point out. It was also strategically completely unnecessary for scum to start a wagon on Awaclus at that time. He at no point wavered from his position on Awaclus, despite lots of claiming and other things going on. He had an opportunity to join Teproc on a silver wagon, for example.
Day 1 he is not on the Hydrad wagon. Day 2 he is first on the XP wagon and stays there, Day 3 he is second. (RR was first, but unvoted. Hard to know what that means b/c there was a request for an unvote b/c of L-1.)
I really don't think EgorK was partners with XP and Awaclus.
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Another thing - if RR was town, wouldn't the remaining mafia be finding a way to agree with me about him?
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Another thing - if RR was town, wouldn't the remaining mafia be finding a way to agree with me about him?
White-knighting is one of RR's weaknesses. I think everyone but Egor knows that.
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Another thing - if RR was town, wouldn't the remaining mafia be finding a way to agree with me about him?
Please don't let that discourage anyone from agreeing with me!
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Another thing - if RR was town, wouldn't the remaining mafia be finding a way to agree with me about him?
White-knighting is one of RR's weaknesses. I think everyone but Egor knows that.
?? The mafia would be white-knighting you, not the other way around. And as silver pointed out, it doesn't make a lot of sense for mafia to white knight at this point in the game.
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Another thing - if RR was town, wouldn't the remaining mafia be finding a way to agree with me about him?
White-knighting is one of RR's weaknesses. I think everyone but Egor knows that.
?? The mafia would be white-knighting you, not the other way around. And as silver pointed out, it doesn't make a lot of sense for mafia to white knight at this point in the game.
Mafia is like 'yeah guys, RR is town.' Mafia then kills x. Mafia and RR are at LyLo, RR agrees with Mafia, Mafia wins. It seems pretty sound.
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Awaclus's and RR's voting records:
Day 1
vote count 1.2 Awaclus is voting silver as an RVS vote.
1.3 RR is voting Hydrad, followed by XP, Awaclus stays with his RVS
1.4 Awaclus is voting RR, accusing him of linking to the article on playing scum and being scum at the same time. Egork also still has RVS vote on RR. RR is never in any danger.
Day 2
Awaclus and RR both stay off wagon until the very end of the day. Then Awaclus votes ash, followed 1/2 hour later by RR voting ash. Then ash self-voted.
Day 3
RR is first on XP wagon, Awaclus is third. Both unvote when silver asks gkrieg to. Neither ever goes back.
Day 4
Awaclus votes WW for lying, RR follows suit. No one else votes WW.
666 RR unvotes WW b/c "Awaclus is scummy now", but does not vote for him and is therefore off wagon when Awaclus is lynched.
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Vote Count 5.2
RR (1): EFHW
ss (1): Egork
Not Voting: (3) RR, ss, WW
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Day5 will last 7 days and will end January 30 at 11:59 forum time.
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I was pretty sure there was a mention that 5th PR can't be 1, 2 or 3, but seems yuma reconsidered while working on setup. So ss claim is possible.
I am roleblocker. I blocked Teproc N2, gkrieg N3 and EFHW N4. My N2 action lead to that cryptic dialogue with Teproc at the end of last day.
So let's play out scenarios. We had 12 shots no matter if ss telling the truth. So scum has bus driver left. It is irrelevant for role blocking purposes. I used 2 shots before N4, ash used 1 shot, cop used 2 I guess, Teproc used at most 4. Shot changer likely targeted WW if anyone, so there should not be shots lost there. We also lost 1 shot by lynching ash. So we likely had 2 shots before this night, and now have no shots if ss is town and Teproc used shots. EFHW could have been last scum if she used strongman from joat.
Ok, unvote for now, I need to calculate few things and think about this
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ahah shiet so I claimed for absolutely nothing <.<
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if we believe Egork, then EFHW is an IC, so it's either WW or RR, and I'm pretty sure it's not WW, so... RR?
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oh that is assuming we still have shots left.
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if we believe Egork, then EFHW is an IC, so it's either WW or RR, and I'm pretty sure it's not WW, so... RR?
We have to consider Bus Driver shenanigans.
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if we believe Egork, then EFHW is an IC, so it's either WW or RR, and I'm pretty sure it's not WW, so... RR?
We have to consider Bus Driver shenanigans.
Which can't affect roleblocker. And can't self target. So no, we should not
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if we believe Egork, then EFHW is an IC, so it's either WW or RR, and I'm pretty sure it's not WW, so... RR?
We have to consider Bus Driver shenanigans.
Which can't affect roleblocker. And can't self target. So no, we should not
If you and Teproc got bus driven (for example) wouldn't Teproc watch whoever you were trying to roleblock and you'd roleblock whoever Teproc was trying to watch?
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if we believe Egork, then EFHW is an IC, so it's either WW or RR, and I'm pretty sure it's not WW, so... RR?
We have to consider Bus Driver shenanigans.
Which can't affect roleblocker. And can't self target. So no, we should not
If you and Teproc got bus driven (for example) wouldn't Teproc watch whoever you were trying to roleblock and you'd roleblock whoever Teproc was trying to watch?
Please read what bus driver is. With good probability it is in your PM. Thank you
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if we believe Egork, then EFHW is an IC, so it's either WW or RR, and I'm pretty sure it's not WW, so... RR?
We have to consider Bus Driver shenanigans.
Which can't affect roleblocker. And can't self target. So no, we should not
If you and Teproc got bus driven (for example) wouldn't Teproc watch whoever you were trying to roleblock and you'd roleblock whoever Teproc was trying to watch?
Please read what bus driver is. With good probability it is in your PM. Thank you
Bus Driver targets A and B and switches them.
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Okay, Bus Driver is confusing. But let's say I'm the Bus Driver and I bus drive EFHW and SS. Egor tries to roleblock EFHW, but Egor reall blocks SS. So how are roleblockers not impacted?
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Okay, Bus Driver is confusing. But let's say I'm the Bus Driver and I bus drive EFHW and SS. Egor tries to roleblock EFHW, but Egor reall blocks SS. So how are roleblockers not impacted?
They are both town and you are scum in that case, that's how
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Okay, Bus Driver is confusing. But let's say I'm the Bus Driver and I bus drive EFHW and SS. Egor tries to roleblock EFHW, but Egor reall blocks SS. So how are roleblockers not impacted?
They are both town and you are scum in that case, that's how
But in that situation, aren't roleblockers impacted by the bus driver?
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if we believe Egork, then EFHW is an IC, so it's either WW or RR, and I'm pretty sure it's not WW, so... RR?
We have to consider Bus Driver shenanigans.
Which can't affect roleblocker. And can't self target. So no, we should not
If you and Teproc got bus driven (for example) wouldn't Teproc watch whoever you were trying to roleblock and you'd roleblock whoever Teproc was trying to watch?
Please read what bus driver is. With good probability it is in your PM. Thank you
Bus Driver targets A and B and switches them.
Oh, if that was true I'd be somewhere in France now if I recall correctly, it would not be -24 C outside
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Okay, Bus Driver is confusing. But let's say I'm the Bus Driver and I bus drive EFHW and SS. Egor tries to roleblock EFHW, but Egor reall blocks SS. So how are roleblockers not impacted?
They are both town and you are scum in that case, that's how
But in that situation, aren't roleblockers impacted by the bus driver?
Try to come up with scenario where I am blocking scum, it does not use strongman and kill still go through
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Okay, Bus Driver is confusing. But let's say I'm the Bus Driver and I bus drive EFHW and SS. Egor tries to roleblock EFHW, but Egor reall blocks SS. So how are roleblockers not impacted?
They are both town and you are scum in that case, that's how
But in that situation, aren't roleblockers impacted by the bus driver?
Try to come up with scenario where I am blocking scum, it does not use strongman and kill still go through
Hmmmm....point possibly taken. Let me think on that though.
Oh wait! SS blocks you!
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Oh, if that was true I'd be somewhere in France now if I recall correctly, it would not be -24 C outside
haha
Try to come up with scenario where I am blocking scum, it does not use strongman and kill still go through
I thought the point was that your RB may not have stopped EFHW's kill?
that's not possible, because bus driver can't self target, I think.
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I think I may be inclined to believe Egork's claim despite the 25% chance, just because WHY should scum!Egork pull EFHW out of the lynch pool? From my PoV, she was like one of the most possible options.
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Bus Driver can't successfully self target. Do you think there was a strongman kill?
And sorry SS, but your claim seems scummy. Town SS probably would've been more focused as a PR.
PPE
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Okay, Bus Driver is confusing. But let's say I'm the Bus Driver and I bus drive EFHW and SS. Egor tries to roleblock EFHW, but Egor reall blocks SS. So how are roleblockers not impacted?
They are both town and you are scum in that case, that's how
But in that situation, aren't roleblockers impacted by the bus driver?
Try to come up with scenario where I am blocking scum, it does not use strongman and kill still go through
Hmmmm....point possibly taken. Let me think on that though.
Oh wait! SS blocks you!
Blocking roles go off simultaneously, which probably means roleblocker can't be roleblocked
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I think I may be inclined to believe Egork's claim despite the 25% chance, just because WHY should scum!Egork pull EFHW out of the lynch pool? From my PoV, she was like one of the most possible options.
So that scum!Egor could get me lynched without looking scummy.
PPE
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Okay, Bus Driver is confusing. But let's say I'm the Bus Driver and I bus drive EFHW and SS. Egor tries to roleblock EFHW, but Egor reall blocks SS. So how are roleblockers not impacted?
They are both town and you are scum in that case, that's how
But in that situation, aren't roleblockers impacted by the bus driver?
Try to come up with scenario where I am blocking scum, it does not use strongman and kill still go through
Hmmmm....point possibly taken. Let me think on that though.
Oh wait! SS blocks you!
Blocking roles go off simultaneously, which probably means roleblocker can't be roleblocked
Rule clarification please.
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Bus Driver can't successfully self target. Do you think there was a strongman kill?
And sorry SS, but your claim seems scummy. Town SS probably would've been more focused as a PR.
PPE
town rr usually doesn't have exams coming up. neither does scum RR
I had like 3 times as much free time a month ago. that is like really 3 times, not figuratively.
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*ss
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I think I may be inclined to believe Egork's claim despite the 25% chance, just because WHY should scum!Egork pull EFHW out of the lynch pool? From my PoV, she was like one of the most possible options.
EFHW not absolutely cleared because of joat, but yes, not see voting her today
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i had no idea that scum even has all of this stuff <.<
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Bus Driver can't successfully self target. Do you think there was a strongman kill?
And sorry SS, but your claim seems scummy. Town SS probably would've been more focused as a PR.
PPE
town rr usually doesn't have exams coming up. neither does scum RR
I had like 3 times as much free time a month ago. that is like really 3 times, not figuratively.
I guess that flies, but I wouldn't know.
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If EFHW is 'cleared,' I like a WW lynch I guess. But man, scum has been playing pretty well. No one really seems super scummy.
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I believe Egor. I doubt RR is scum. I don't buy SS's story. If not SS, then EFHW.
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SS, if you're barely following enough to figure out how likely Teproc's claim is (or if he even claimed), why did you think it was worth spending a shot over?
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Did you guys read my analysis of RR's voting? I actually thought it was pretty persuasive. Please look at it if you didn't already. It's the post right before the last vote count.
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Days 2, 3 and 4 RR votes in lockstep with Awaclus.
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Did you guys read my analysis of RR's voting? I actually thought it was pretty persuasive. Please look at it if you didn't already. It's the post right before the last vote count.
Why don't you post your voting history?
PPE
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Did you guys read my analysis of RR's voting? I actually thought it was pretty persuasive. Please look at it if you didn't already. It's the post right before the last vote count.
Why don't you post your voting history?
PPE
Look it up yourself if you are interested. Then you'll look like you're scumhunting.
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Did you guys read my analysis of RR's voting? I actually thought it was pretty persuasive. Please look at it if you didn't already. It's the post right before the last vote count.
Why don't you post your voting history?
PPE
Look it up yourself if you are interested. Then you'll look like you're scumhunting.
I don't think you're scum, but I want to point out anyone can have a scummy voting history if it's put in the right light.
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Did you guys read my analysis of RR's voting? I actually thought it was pretty persuasive. Please look at it if you didn't already. It's the post right before the last vote count.
Why don't you post your voting history?
PPE
Look it up yourself if you are interested. Then you'll look like you're scumhunting.
I don't think you're scum, but I want to point out anyone can have a scummy voting history if it's put in the right light.
not really. Perhaps you would like to respond to the substance of what I ssid?
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*said
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Whatever JOAT power was used last night cannot be used tonight, if we have a night.
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Did you guys read my analysis of RR's voting? I actually thought it was pretty persuasive. Please look at it if you didn't already. It's the post right before the last vote count.
Why don't you post your voting history?
PPE
Look it up yourself if you are interested. Then you'll look like you're scumhunting.
I don't think you're scum, but I want to point out anyone can have a scummy voting history if it's put in the right light.
not really. Perhaps you would like to respond to the substance of what I ssid?
If I respond I'll probably make it worse. If people see me as scummy because of that, then I'll write up a panic response.
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Rule clarification please.
The clarification sought here is too vague. Please ask a more precise question to be answered.
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Vote Count 5.3
RR (1): EFHW
Not Voting: (4) RR, ss, WW, EgorK
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Day5 will last 7 days and will end January 30 at 11:59 forum time.
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Rule clarification please.
The clarification sought here is too vague. Please ask a more precise question to be answered.
Can a town aligned roleblocker roleblock another town aligned roleblocker?
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Night Action Resolution:
Bus Drive
Blocking Roles
Shot Changer
Protective Roles
Killing Roles
Investigative Roles
- Roles of the same type will occur simultaneously.
Suppose Roleblocker A blocks Roleblocker B, who blocks Roleblocker C, who blocks Roleblocker D, who blocks Doctor E. If Roleblocks are resolved in such a way that conflicts are minimized, A blocks B, preventing B from blocking C, thus C blocks D, preventing D from blocking the Doctor - in short, the Doctor's protection would have an effect. If all Roleblocks are simultaneous, the only player who is NOT technically Roleblocked is A; the Doctor would be blocked.
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Thanks Yuma! So I guess I was right. Does it matter?
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Days 2, 3 and 4 RR votes in lockstep with Awaclus.
Do you actually think partners are going to do that?
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Whatever JOAT power was used last night cannot be used tonight, if we have a night.
So you're saying you can't Strongman again?!
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Days 2, 3 and 4 RR votes in lockstep with Awaclus.
Do you actually think partners are going to do that?
I think scum!RR would.
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Days 2, 3 and 4 RR votes in lockstep with Awaclus.
Do you actually think partners are going to do that?
I think scum!RR would.
Weren't we talking about how people were underestimating me?
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Days 2, 3 and 4 RR votes in lockstep with Awaclus.
Do you actually think partners are going to do that?
I think scum!RR would.
I'm really not very convinced. Why do you not think it's Silverspawn?
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Days 2, 3 and 4 RR votes in lockstep with Awaclus.
Do you actually think partners are going to do that?
I think scum!RR would.
I'm really not very convinced. Why do you not think it's Silverspawn?
Because there is only one scum left and it's Roadrunner so SS can't be scum. -EFHW
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Whatever JOAT power was used last night cannot be used tonight, if we have a night.
So you're saying you can't Strongman again?!
Um, I'm VT. But if whoever is the scum used it last night, they can't use it tonight b/c they are still alive. I think anyone targeting Teproc would want to use it b/c he was the logical nk and likely to get protection (it wasn't known then that our remaining roles were roleblocks).
If both roleblockers target the same person who is the scum, then they can stop the nk.
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Days 2, 3 and 4 RR votes in lockstep with Awaclus.
Do you actually think partners are going to do that?
I think scum!RR would.
Weren't we talking about how people were underestimating me?
They were underestimating your ability to put on a meta and use it. It's very hard to know how to vote as scum. Even harder than posting. This is your second scum game, I'd say you might very well follow Awaclus. I mean, what's the explanation otherwise? Coincidence?
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Days 2, 3 and 4 RR votes in lockstep with Awaclus.
Do you actually think partners are going to do that?
I think scum!RR would.
I'm really not very convinced. Why do you not think it's Silverspawn?
So you think he is faking his befuddlement? He would be faking towntells over and over again. I guess he could try that. Do you think he could pull that off? How about his voting record? Does that look scummy?
silver would be my second choice. If we mislynch, then EgorK probably dies overnight, and it's you, me and RR. Would you vote him then?
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Whatever JOAT power was used last night cannot be used tonight, if we have a night.
So you're saying you can't Strongman again?!
Um, I'm VT. But if whoever is the scum used it last night, they can't use it tonight b/c they are still alive. I think anyone targeting Teproc would want to use it b/c he was the logical nk and likely to get protection (it wasn't known then that our remaining roles were roleblocks).
If both roleblockers target the same person who is the scum, then they can stop the nk.
1) Do you believe Egor?
2) Do you believe Silver?
3) Why are you posting as if you know they're both telling the truth?
PPE: somewhat addressed
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Days 2, 3 and 4 RR votes in lockstep with Awaclus.
Do you actually think partners are going to do that?
I think scum!RR would.
I'm really not very convinced. Why do you not think it's Silverspawn?
So you think he is faking his befuddlement? He would be faking towntells over and over again. I guess he could try that. Do you think he could pull that off? How about his voting record? Does that look scummy?
silver would be my second choice. If we mislynch, then EgorK probably dies overnight, and it's you, me and RR. Would you vote him then?
Yes, actually, I do think he's faking it. Well, not faking as much as exaggerating/overplaying it. Go reread him and tell me what you think.
The biggest indicator of who to lynch (both today, and tomorrow if we're wrong) should be the treatment of Awaclus, I think. Silver's "I don't like this, let's lynch Egor over Awaclus" was particularly bad, I think. It felt like an intentional "let's not give reasons because I wouldn't do it as town" kind of thing.
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Okay, EFHW puts up a reasonable argument, so I feel inclined to say this: if I die today, kill EFHW tomorrow. It's my dying wish.
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Okay, EFHW puts up a reasonable argument, so I feel inclined to say this: if I die today, kill EFHW tomorrow. It's my dying wish.
You think you will get lynched?
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Okay, EFHW puts up a reasonable argument, so I feel inclined to say this: if I die today, kill EFHW tomorrow. It's my dying wish.
You think you will get lynched?
I think you'll get won over by EFHW then Egor will hammer to be agreeable or something. I just want to take precautions.
But since Egor isn't confident about his ability to read me, it feels like he's staying out of this one. Or he's sleeping.
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I remember that, and I think the "this" refers to the conversation a few posts back, not the immediately preceding ones.
In any case, we have 2 lynches. Three if we manage to roleblock the nk. We wouldn't be able to be sure why the nk didn't happen, because scum could also decide not to shoot, but it gives us time.
If I can't persuade you guys of an RR lynch, then let's do silver. If you're right, that's great. If you're wrong, maybe you'll take another look at RR.
PPE: 3. AtE
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Or, we do RR and if I'm wrong you'll very likely lynch me. This certainly isn't a winning strategy for scum!me, though, so you might decide I'm misguided town and we'll lynch you or silver.
scum!me would be voting silver.
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Or, we do RR and if I'm wrong you'll very likely lynch me. This certainly isn't a winning strategy for scum!me, though, so you might decide I'm misguided town and we'll lynch you or silver.
scum!me would be voting silver.
So let's play the EFHW-is-not-scum game. What would you think scum would do today, claims-wise?
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I looked back, and I agree his switch from Awaclus to Egork is scummy.
PPE: I don't think scum would bother with an elaborate, poorly executed fakeclaim that only has a 25% chance of being true.
non-RR scum would be jumping on the RR wagon.
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I looked back, and I agree his switch from Awaclus to Egork is scummy.
PPE: I don't think scum would bother with an elaborate, poorly executed fakeclaim that only has a 25% chance of being true.
non-RR scum would be jumping on the RR wagon.
Voting for RR is scummy.
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Okay. I realize that by not making a case on someone else I'm sorta dooming myself, but after my Hydrad mislynch I don't want to be responsible for another one. And everyone has been pretty towny.
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I looked back, and I agree his switch from Awaclus to Egork is scummy.
PPE: I don't think scum would bother with an elaborate, poorly executed fakeclaim that only has a 25% chance of being true.
non-RR scum would be jumping on the RR wagon.
What if you considered yourself basically sure to get lynched anyway? And, you wouldn't have known what PR Egor had, so you may have had to claim something in case of Tracking/Watching.
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I looked back, and I agree his switch from Awaclus to Egork is scummy.
PPE: I don't think scum would bother with an elaborate, poorly executed fakeclaim that only has a 25% chance of being true.
non-RR scum would be jumping on the RR wagon.
especially if they are hoping I'll be mislynched next as consequence for my error.
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I looked back, and I agree his switch from Awaclus to Egork is scummy.
PPE: I don't think scum would bother with an elaborate, poorly executed fakeclaim that only has a 25% chance of being true.
non-RR scum would be jumping on the RR wagon.
What if you considered yourself basically sure to get lynched anyway? And, you wouldn't have known what PR Egor had, so you may have had to claim something in case of Tracking/Watching.
Oh, right that is why silver says he claimed. Probably shot changer. Teproc claimed a PR and was believable, so he would be a good target for shot changer.
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But I wouldn't claim until someone said they saw me.
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First, scum theoretically can repeat strongman overnight. They could have just finished cycle
Second, where from that 25% comes from? By my calculation chance of ss being rb strictly from math is 1/21 (a little bit under 5%). What stops me from instavoting is that I do not understand why he'd do that
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First, scum theoretically can repeat strongman overnight. They could have just finished cycle
Second, where from that 25% comes from? By my calculation chance of ss being rb strictly from math is 1/21 (a little bit under 5%). What stops me from instavoting is that I do not understand why he'd do that
ahm it doesn't make sense to calculate the exact chance of me being a RB. that's like if we all get a random number between 1 and 100 in addition to our role and I tell you that mine is 47 and you say that that's only 1% so I must be lying
You could have claimed any role (and so could I) so what matters is how likely any fifth role is to exist. The only chance for that is if this happened:
5. If town receives no 1, 2 or 3s (Cop, Vig, JK) in its first four rolls then the town will receive an extra fifth roll. However, this additional roll will bring in zero additional shots for town.
And this happens exactly if all the first 4 numbers were one of {4,5,6,7,8,9,10}. It's 70% for a random roll to be one of those numbers, so the chance to have 4 in a row is 70%^4 ≈ 24%
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Yes, actually, I do think he's faking it. Well, not faking as much as exaggerating/overplaying it. Go reread him and tell me what you think.
I could see scum!me overplaying it, but I can not see him claiming a PR for no reason. He wouldn't get lynched without claiming anything, so if you think that I'm scum, why did I claim?
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and again 25% isn't a lot, so I'm not sure if it's crazy for any of us to not auto lynch Egork. I've to reread his claim
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so assuming Egork is correct, we play this setup, right?
11 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 8 shots
since we have 11 shots with S(cop) + S(Roleblocker) + S(Rolecop) + S(Watcher) = 1 + 3 + 4 + 3 = 11
Plus the universal JOAT of {Strongman, Ninja, Cop Immune, Bulletproof}
So scum does not have a Bus Driver. But they do have a roleblocker.
What this means is that it's easier for scum!Egork to fakeclaim RB, since he could just really be one, so he can't get caught in fakeclaims.
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Uhm and we actually just play that setup guaranteed. The second RB doesn't add shots to town, so we have 11 shots either way.
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So then Egork makes this mistake:
Well, ok. I am remaining PR (if WW tells truth). I can claim which if you want, but I am not sure it is needed unless there is counterclaim
Four PRs?
Well, this is the only possible number, as we already had cop (so it can't be 5) and rolecop (so it can't be 3)
Unfortunately I think this is neither a town nor a scum slip. 5 and 4 roles is identical from scum's PoV, so being scum wouldn't tell him that 5 are possible.
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Wasn't Teproc tracker?
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Oh, watcher. Then we has 11 shots no matter what. I need rule clarification then - suppose there are 2 roleblockers and 1 shot left. Whose action go through if anyones?
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Correct way to calculate it
Apriori probability town receive Cop, Rolecop, Watcher and RB - 24/10000 (4 rolls in any order)
Apriori probability town receive Cop, Rolecop, Watcher and 2xRB - 12/100000 (12 ways to get all but cop on first 4 rolls)
Hence 20:1
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We should also discount apriori probability of 4 PRs by apriori chance you are scum and 5PRs by chance you are town. Based on my reads that would be 1/3 and 2/3 (if I am generous), so actual aposteriori chances are more like 1:10
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SS voting history:
D1:
RR (RVS)
WW
D2:
ash
D3:
D4:
Awaclus
EgorK (L-1, no announcement)
Unvotes
That's it
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I can see where both of you are coming from, but are you trying to potentially get each other lynched? Should everyone else start picking sides?
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so assuming Egork is correct, we play this setup, right?
11 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 8 shots
since we have 11 shots with S(cop) + S(Roleblocker) + S(Rolecop) + S(Watcher) = 1 + 3 + 4 + 3 = 11
Plus the universal JOAT of {Strongman, Ninja, Cop Immune, Bulletproof}
So scum does not have a Bus Driver. But they do have a roleblocker.
What this means is that it's easier for scum!Egork to fakeclaim RB, since he could just really be one, so he can't get caught in fakeclaims.
Xerxes was the scum roleblocker. If you're right, scum still has a rolecop left.
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Correct way to calculate it
Apriori probability town receive Cop, Rolecop, Watcher and RB - 24/10000 (4 rolls in any order)
Apriori probability town receive Cop, Rolecop, Watcher and 2xRB - 12/100000 (12 ways to get all but cop on first 4 rolls)
Hence 20:1
you're right!
that makes things easy. vote: Egork
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There is absolutely no way that a read will make me vote against 19:1 odds so my vote is set until Egork is lynched.
Not to mention that I had town reads on RR and WW anyway.
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Okay, I'm not sure if I like what's happening, but 19:1 odds are pretty good. And WW's plan looks better: lynch one today, the other tomorrow.
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SS are you cool with getting lynched if Egor flips roleblocker?
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SS are you cool with getting lynched if Egor flips roleblocker?
well, in a world where Egork has already flipped RB I won't be very cool with lynching me, because it would lose the game.
but right now I think I'm fine enough with lynching both of us in either order.
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I am okay with lynching both of you in either order as well. I can bet the game on a 1:20 chance. Are we going to get a better one?
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Correct way to calculate it
Apriori probability town receive Cop, Rolecop, Watcher and RB - 24/10000 (4 rolls in any order)
Apriori probability town receive Cop, Rolecop, Watcher and 2xRB - 12/100000 (12 ways to get all but cop on first 4 rolls)
Hence 20:1
you're right!
that makes things easy. vote: Egork
He is wrong, you were right in the first place. The only relevant numbers are the odds of getting the 1st 4 rolls without a 1, 2 or 3.
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So then Egork makes this mistake:
Well, ok. I am remaining PR (if WW tells truth). I can claim which if you want, but I am not sure it is needed unless there is counterclaim
Four PRs?
Well, this is the only possible number, as we already had cop (so it can't be 5) and rolecop (so it can't be 3)
Unfortunately I think this is neither a town nor a scum slip. 5 and 4 roles is identical from scum's PoV, so being scum wouldn't tell him that 5 are possible.
This is not a mistake. He still thought WW was a vig at this point.
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SS are you cool with getting lynched if Egor flips roleblocker?
well, in a world where Egork has already flipped RB I won't be very cool with lynching me, because it would lose the game.
but right now I think I'm fine enough with lynching both of us in either order.
This is nuts! Worst possible plan.
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Vote Count 5.4
RR (1): EFHW
EgorK (1): ss
Not Voting: (3) RR, WW, EgorK
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Day5 will last 7 days and will end January 30 at 11:59 forum time.
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Uhm and we actually just play that setup guaranteed. The second RB doesn't add shots to town, so we have 11 shots either way.
cop would be the last role picked.
We had 12 shots.
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Oh, watcher. Then we has 11 shots no matter what. I need rule clarification then - suppose there are 2 roleblockers and 1 shot left. Whose action go through if anyones?
- If the game progresses to a point where at night more actions are being performed than shots available the night action resolution will prioritize which actions are used and which are not.
Following that roles that occur simultaneously will be randomized as to which ones are successful and which ones fail
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Uhm and we actually just play that setup guaranteed. The second RB doesn't add shots to town, so we have 11 shots either way.
cop would be the last role picked.
We had 12 shots?
We did have 11, just not for the reasons you said. 13 shots for the first 4 roles, -2 bc the 5th was a 1.
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This is not a mistake. He still thought WW was a vig at this point.
Ah, that's right. So he thought 5 was impossible. But that's not dependent on his alignment
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First, scum theoretically can repeat strongman overnight. They could have just finished cycle
Second, where from that 25% comes from? By my calculation chance of ss being rb strictly from math is 1/21 (a little bit under 5%). What stops me from instavoting is that I do not understand why he'd do that
JOAT powers used by XP or Awaclus would have reset when they died. The only way the cycle would be finished is if this last scum was the only one who used a JOAT, and he used one every night.
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Yes, actually, I do think he's faking it. Well, not faking as much as exaggerating/overplaying it. Go reread him and tell me what you think.
I could see scum!me overplaying it, but I can not see him claiming a PR for no reason. He wouldn't get lynched without claiming anything, so if you think that I'm scum, why did I claim?
Panic
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so assuming Egork is correct, we play this setup, right?
11 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 8 shots
since we have 11 shots with S(cop) + S(Roleblocker) + S(Rolecop) + S(Watcher) = 1 + 3 + 4 + 3 = 11
Plus the universal JOAT of {Strongman, Ninja, Cop Immune, Bulletproof}
So scum does not have a Bus Driver. But they do have a roleblocker.
What this means is that it's easier for scum!Egork to fakeclaim RB, since he could just really be one, so he can't get caught in fakeclaims.
Roleblocker was XP who is dead. They have rolecop.
Seriously, is this for real? You do an excellent explanation of why it's 24%, and then proceed to make one mistake after another. What's going on?
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He is wrong, you were right in the first place. The only relevant numbers are the odds of getting the 1st 4 rolls without a 1, 2 or 3.
So, I think this is one of the cases where the maths is super important, so it's worth the time/effort to discuss it until we all agree..
I think my initial calculation was wrong, because the existence of a vig changes the odds of not having any {1,2,3} in the first 4 rolls. Sure, the vig could have been the fifth roll, but that's just the problem, it now needs to be the fifth roll. That decreases the probability.
I don't think Egork's math is correct either, I just said 'you are right' to simplify things and the discussion, because the result I calculated was very similar:
I think what we really need to calculate is this:
P(A given B) where
A := We have a setup of: {C, RC, W, RB, RB}
B := We have exactly 1 Cop, exactly 1 Watcher, exactly 1 Rolecop, either 1 or 2 Roleblockers, and no other PRs
In other words, A is the setup if both claims are true, and B is every setup that's still possible. We want to know how likely A is given that B is true.
P(A | B) = P(A ∩ B) / P(B) = P(A) / P(B) ≈ 23%
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Roleblocker was XP who is dead. They have rolecop.
ah, cool.
... of course scum!me would have known this, so I'm an IC now!
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Please note my interaction with Teproc at the end of D4. I roleblocked him N2 and he confirms that someone tampered with his results that night. Of course it may be me capitalizing on XP actions, but I am not sure scum has any reason to RB Teproc that night (unless they rolecopped him N1 of course)
Also yes, I should vote silver even with 1:10 chances Vote: ss
PPE: 2
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P(A | B) = P(A ∩ B) / P(B) = P(A) / P(B) ≈ 23%
err I mean ≈ 4,7% or something like that. Something a bit lower than 1/20. but the rest should work like that
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(also I'm not 100% sure that my new calculation is right; if you convince me that it's wrong, I could vote someone other than Egork)
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He is wrong, you were right in the first place. The only relevant numbers are the odds of getting the 1st 4 rolls without a 1, 2 or 3.
So, I think this is one of the cases where the maths is super important, so it's worth the time/effort to discuss it until we all agree..
I think my initial calculation was wrong, because the existence of a vig changes the odds of not having any {1,2,3} in the first 4 rolls. Sure, the vig could have been the fifth roll, but that's just the problem, it now needs to be the fifth roll. That decreases the probability.
I don't think Egork's math is correct either, I just said 'you are right' to simplify things and the discussion, because the result I calculated was very similar:
I think what we really need to calculate is this:
P(A given B) where
A := We have a setup of: {C, RC, W, RB, RB}
B := We have exactly 1 Cop, exactly 1 Watcher, exactly 1 Rolecop, either 1 or 2 Roleblockers, and no other PRs
In other words, A is the setup if both claims are true, and B is every setup that's still possible. We want to know how likely A is given that B is true.
P(A | B) = P(A ∩ B) / P(B) = P(A) / P(B) ≈ 23%
Problem is P(B) is 24/10000 + 12/100000 (probability of having 1 RB and 2 RBs respectively), while P(A) = 12/100000. So P(A) / P(B) = 1 / 21
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[...] 1 / 21
yes, that. okay, your calculation was right then, you just simplified it.
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so we don't have to agree with lynching both of us if you (EFHW) think that's a bad idea. We can also just lynch Egork and then lynch RR in the unlikely case that Egork is town. That's actually even better.
But I'd rather lynch me -> Egork than RR -> ?
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(also I'm not 100% sure that my new calculation is right; if you convince me that it's wrong, I could vote someone other than Egork)
You are indeed both wrong. We don't want the chances of town getting these specific roles. We want the chances of there being 5 PRs.
And we don't have a vig!!!!!
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so we don't have to agree with lynching both of us if you (EFHW) think that's a bad idea. We can also just lynch Egork and then lynch RR in the unlikely case that Egork is town. That's actually even better.
But I'd rather lynch me -> Egork than RR -> ?
I'm not lynching EgorK. I have zero support for thinking he is scum. You are looking better, though, so I might go along with WW.
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Meaning WW's plan.
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Except it seems more likely that you are sleep deprived rather than faking.
I still think that I have given enough cover to a non RR scum to support an RR lynch, but that isn't happening.
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(also I'm not 100% sure that my new calculation is right; if you convince me that it's wrong, I could vote someone other than Egork)
You are indeed both wrong. We don't want the chances of town getting these specific roles. We want the chances of there being 5 PRs.
And we don't have a vig!!!!!
No, we are not. There is exactly 2 setups possible, and the question is what are probabilities they were generated with
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You are indeed both wrong. We don't want the chances of town getting these specific roles. We want the chances of there being 5 PRs.
The chances of there being 5 PRs with no additional information is ~24%. But we do have additional information.
And we don't have a vig!!!!!
?
I have zero support for thinking he is scum.
It's most likely him or me, and it's not me, therefore it's most likely him.
I wouldn't
- Claim a PR
- Not knowing scum roles until the start of this day
- Not remember that XP was a RB
if I was scum
You can also see that Egork is scum by the fact that he had the math correct right away, but still never proposed lynching both of us, which he logically should do were he town. But he's scum, so he loses if we lynch both of us, so he didn't propose it.
But sure, if I can't convince you then do me first. Egork is only voting me, I'm only voting Egork, none of the other 3 will vote themselves, so you can't get a majority for an RR or WW lynch.
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I had not voted for you right away because math do not incorporate many other things. Namely, if you had average read on me before this (i. e. 25% scum, 75% town) you'd have to discount that 1:20 ratio by 3, making it 3:20 (I had slightly less town read on you because I have strong town reads on WW and EFHW, hence I only discounted ratio from my viewpoint to 1:10).
But the more I think about it the more reasons for you to be scum I can find. That rb of Teproc on N4 just do not make sense at all. How you were afraid of tracker as well do not fit the bill. But mostly how you had not claimed D4.
Still, even with all that I am only ok with committing to "lynch both" if it is impossible to anyone else being scum. But it is possible. Would we have guaranteed shots left (in case you are scum) it may be better to lynch RR and me targeting you, but that once again depends on if strongman shot is "alive"
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But the more I think about it the more reasons for you to be scum I can find. That rb of Teproc on N4 just do not make sense at all. How you were afraid of tracker as well do not fit the bill. But mostly how you had not claimed D4.
Good Job listing a lot of town tells!
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I had not voted for you right away because math do not incorporate many other things. Namely, if you had average read on me before this (i. e. 25% scum, 75% town) you'd have to discount that 1:20 ratio by 3, making it 3:20 (I had slightly less town read on you because I have strong town reads on WW and EFHW, hence I only discounted ratio from my viewpoint to 1:10).
Doesn't make a lot of sense. Everyone is by default more likely town than scum. If you have average reads, 1 : 20 works just fine relative to the others.
And even if that was not the case, 1:10 or whatever should still be an instant vote.
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I had not voted for you right away because math do not incorporate many other things. Namely, if you had average read on me before this (i. e. 25% scum, 75% town) you'd have to discount that 1:20 ratio by 3, making it 3:20 (I had slightly less town read on you because I have strong town reads on WW and EFHW, hence I only discounted ratio from my viewpoint to 1:10).
Doesn't make a lot of sense. Everyone is by default more likely town than scum.
Yes, and we should account that in apriori probabilities if difference between 2 setups is exactly someone being scum or town
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Vote: Silverspawn
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1:10 should be instant vote in a vacuum or where I accounted everything in this probability. Unfortunately I had hard time accounting everything here into single number. So that's why I decided to think about that
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That should be hammer.
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There's better things in Mafia than probability~
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That should be hammer.
But it is not - though it is L-1
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There's better things in Mafia than probability~
There are. We still should use all the data available - just not blindly
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That should be hammer.
But it is not - though it is L-1
Dammit; I thought RR had gone on SS initially.
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Vote Count 5.6
RR (1): EFHW
EgorK (1): ss
ss (2): EgorK, WW (L-1)
Not Voting: (1) RR
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Day5 will last 7 days and will end January 30 at 11:59 forum time.
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Oh, it was EFHW on RR.
Unvote
I want to hammer!
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By the way, has anyone counted shots used given Egor and Silver's claims?
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vote: silver
you can hammer if you want
I used 1 shot. Egork didn't use shots, cause he's scum.
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We know, uh..
Night 1: Ash Rolecop XP
Night 2: Egor Roleblock Teproc
Night 3: Egor Roleblock GKrieg
Night 4: Egor Roleblock EFHW, Silver Roleblock Teproc
Teproc used shots I'm sure.. probably 2--3, possibly every night. And I'm sure ADK used a shot Night 1. (You wouldn't save Cop right?) So.. 9 shots used up, at most 10 if Teproc Watched every night, which he may have. So we have to have a shot left.
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vote: silver
you can hammer if you want
I used 1 shot. Egork didn't use shots, cause he's scum.
I'm sorry I don't believe you.
Vote: Silverspawn
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(also I'm not 100% sure that my new calculation is right; if you convince me that it's wrong, I could vote someone other than Egork)
You are indeed both wrong. We don't want the chances of town getting these specific roles. We want the chances of there being 5 PRs.
And we don't have a vig!!!!!
No, we are not. There is exactly 2 setups possible, and the question is what are probabilities they were generated with
What do you mean 2 setups possible? The 2 relevant setups are 1) the 1st 4 rolls contain a 1, 2 or 3 or 2) they don't. Chances are 24% that they don't, as silver correctly calculated earlier. You keep calculating the chances of you getting RB, ADK getting cop, etc., but that is not the question we need to ask. Really. Think about it. Consider for a moment I might be right.
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if you don't lynch Egork tomorrow, it's your fault if we lose, not mine.
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Damn! How do I get you guys to listen to me? Do you really think silver has faked ALL these mistakes and misrememberings etc. If so, great, we win. But I don't think so and I won't vote EgorK when silver flips town.
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Damn! How do I get you guys to listen to me? Do you really think silver has faked ALL these mistakes and misrememberings etc. If so, great, we win. But I don't think so and I won't vote EgorK when silver flips town.
I think Silver has to be today's lynch regardless. It has nothing to do with the flawed probability arguments.
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vote: silver
you can hammer if you want
I used 1 shot. Egork didn't use shots, cause he's scum.
great, do an ashersky. Town always loses based on bogus math.
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By the way, has anyone counted shots used given Egor and Silver's claims?
We had 11 no matter what
ash (rolecop) used 1 and we lost 1 because of lynch
ADK (cop) likely used 2
me (rb) used 3
Teproc (Watcher) used anything from 1 to 4
ss (rb) claims to having been used 1
PPE: 7
If ss is scum we have 0-3 shots remaining. If he is town we have 0-2 and EFHW had chance not being blocked last night
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Final Day5 Vote Count
RR (1): EFHW
ss (3): EgorK, ss, WW
Not Voting: (1) RR
With 5 alive it took 3 to lynch.
silverspawn has been lynched. He was a Town Roleblocker.
Night5 will last no more than 36 hours. Night actions are due within 36 hours. If all players post in their QTs that they are willing to have the night end early the night may be shortened accordingly.
Thread Locked!
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Day6 Starts Now!
EFHW died during the night. She was a Vanilla Townie.
Vote Count 6.0
Not Voting (3): EgorK, WW, RR
With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch.
Day6 will last for 7 days and will end February 2, 2016 at 1:00 pm forum time.
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Well, that's annoying. Though I guess EFHW would have been the person I'd have the hardest time deciding on.
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Egor, RR.
Can you both post whatever is in your personal QTs? You can basically post anything that is not a discussion with Yuma:
9. All players will be given a personal QT to post thoughts, ideas in throughout the game. Scum can use these to pretend to be town. Night actions may be submitted to the mod, as may mod questions. Content from QTs may be posted within the thread verbatim, but not linked. Any interaction with the mod (asking questions, receiving answers, friendly banter, or any other content that deals with the mod or references the mod should not be posted. If you aren't sure, ask).
I can post what I have put in there since I last disclosed it, if you wish.
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Also, Egor, who did you target last night?
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In retrospect I should have asked Silver to post his QT, but alas. I probably would have confirmation biased my way into lynching him regardless.
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Intargetted RR. Unless Teproc skipped at least 2 nights this is irrelevant
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Also I have nothing in my qt aside from confirmation, night actions and one question to yuma (about whether mafia can skip nk, they can)
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Intargetted RR. Unless Teproc skipped at least 2 nights this is irrelevant
I targeted. Stupid iPad keyboard
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Okay.
RR?
-
Okay.
RR?
Yeah?
-
Okay.
RR?
Yeah?
Your personal QT.
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So I'm pretty sure WW is town. By process of elimination, that makes Egor. And there's either a 1/10 chance or a 1/21 chance of Egor being town.
Bur no rushed decisions, anyone!
PPE
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I'm town.
Egor, do you think there is a chance I'm scum?
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Okay.
RR?
Yeah?
Your personal QT.
I can't crossquote on an iPod, or it's notoriously complicated, but all I have is me confirming, me screwing around and then me asking Yuma if he could access the forum (while it was down last night).
PPE
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Okay.
RR?
Yeah?
Your personal QT.
I can't crossquote on an iPod, or it's notoriously complicated, but all I have is me confirming, me screwing around and then me asking Yuma if he could access the forum (while it was down last night).
PPE
I would like to see the literal quotes that aren't directed to Yuma. Even if it's "screwing around".
When you get to a regular computer.
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There aren't any comods, right?
Oh my god! I screwed that up. Thanks for letting me play for a bit though (after mislynching Hydrad).
Sorry! Please don't modkill me! (I edited a post)
Not sure if this is good enough for you, but I have the ultimate spotty computer usage.
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.... I said not directed to Yuma....
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.... I said not directed to Yuma....
I don't talk to myself and I didn't have scumbuddies.
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I don't know what you're trying to do, but I can't say I like it. So let's look at the facts against Egor:
1. He 'roleblocked' me but the kill went through. Does scum have like 4 strongmen?
2. SS's self hammer and his dying wish that we'd kill Egor.
3. The math: it's unlikely to have the PRs we do.
4. The fact that me, you and SS all wanted to lynch both Egor and SS then just win.
5. I haven't really been scummy this game, and apparently you're confirmed town.
This post probably looks scummy, but it doesn't matter how scummy we acted once the games over. All that matters is which faction wins. I want us to win.
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I'm town.
Egor, do you think there is a chance I'm scum?
Chance? Yes, until the moment you flip/mod confirmed. Do I think you are last scum? Currently I am pretty sure RR is, but this exact your post make me reluctant vote right away
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Also it is 1 am here, so this is likely my last post tonight. Hopefully tomorrow forum will work
-
For the record, I'm holding off posting all my thoughts here, because I think it's you two that should be trying to convince me, but I have been collecting them.
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For the record, I'm holding off posting all my thoughts here, because I think it's you two that should be trying to convince me, but I have been collecting them.
I don't know why we need convincing. I'm confirmed town, you seem towny enough, and a 90-93% chance of nabbing (is that a word? I think it is) scum is as good as it gets. Has Egor seemed overly towny to you? Have I seemed overly scummy to you?
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What do you mean by "confirmed"?
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What do you mean by "confirmed"?
Con•firmed
(Of a person) firmly established in a particular habit, belief or way of life and unlikely to change.
I call myself confirmed town because I know that I'm town and that's enough for me to call myself confirmed town.
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So you're just not going to play any more?
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So you're just not going to play any more?
I only need to make one more post: it'll be my vote on Egor. We can overthink this as much as you want, but this needs to happen.
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So you're just not going to play any more?
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You're going to need to do more work to convince me you're town.
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You're going to need to do more work to convince me you're town.
Want a reads list? :p
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I don't know what you're trying to do, but I can't say I like it. So let's look at the facts against Egor:
1. He 'roleblocked' me but the kill went through. Does scum have like 4 strongmen?
2. SS's self hammer and his dying wish that we'd kill Egor.
3. The math: it's unlikely to have the PRs we do.
4. The fact that me, you and SS all wanted to lynch both Egor and SS then just win.
5. I haven't really been scummy this game, and apparently you're confirmed town.
This post probably looks scummy, but it doesn't matter how scummy we acted once the games over. All that matters is which faction wins. I want us to win.
Did you see this? I think this is fairly strong.
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I don't know what you're trying to do, but I can't say I like it. So let's look at the facts against Egor:
1. He 'roleblocked' me but the kill went through. Does scum have like 4 strongmen?
2. SS's self hammer and his dying wish that we'd kill Egor.
3. The math: it's unlikely to have the PRs we do.
4. The fact that me, you and SS all wanted to lynch both Egor and SS then just win.
5. I haven't really been scummy this game, and apparently you're confirmed town.
This post probably looks scummy, but it doesn't matter how scummy we acted once the games over. All that matters is which faction wins. I want us to win.
Did you see this? I think this is fairly strong.
Are you serious? 1 is meaningless.. we likely didn't have shots and scum!Egor could have just claimed to block EFHW. 2 and 3 are bad. 4 is a point towards scum you, not town, and 5 is bad for you too.
And your continued statement about how scummy your posts are does give me any good feelings.
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Oh, well. Then I guess I can't make a good case, you guys lynch me and Egor wins. Or you win, not entirely sure which. Probably Egor.
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This game requires more effort than I'll be able to put today. Stay tuned though
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I suppose I will post my thoughts instead of waiting much more. I'll try to get to it later today or tonight.
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Actually we can do this now:
I mean, problem with not getting wagon can still outweight this, but this is definately benefit
On the other hand I think I am ok with PR/nonPR claim
Egor, why were you okay with PR/nonPR claim on Day 1?
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Because I think it would help catch scum - either we would have too much PRs or too much VTs and that would help of course. Now I see that were a bad idea, but that came with experience in this particular setup
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I don't want to get prodded, but I don't know what to say. I won't vote for a bit. Maybe over the weekend.
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Because I think it would help catch scum - either we would have too much PRs or too much VTs and that would help of course. Now I see that were a bad idea, but that came with experience in this particular setup
I think all of the PRs were opposed to claiming: Ash, Teproc, ADK, Silver. I was even opposed because I was fake claiming a PR. So you would be the only PR for the claim.
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Going to post what I had put in my QT while rereading, starting from when I ended the last one:
(starting from before the Awaclus lynch)
Pretty sure Awaclus is caught here. Definitely sounds like caught scum. The biggest thing was his realization that he knew Teproc was telling the truth, and his correction to his initial response to me. Plus, what the other said. Plus Teproc sounded like a PR after Egor claimed. Possible Egor was lying, but he feels town.
Silver could easily be last scum. He tried to sway away from Awaclus earlier. EFHW is a huge contender, too. I'm actually leaning Silver, but maybe hint towards EFHW.
RR is a crap shoot like always. I wish I had everyone's power of obv reading him. At any rate, Day 1 and 2 seemed very town from him. This recent stuff is weird, though scum is more likely to say less here (which EFHW and Silver are).
Well, Ash can't be right about the XP/Teproc/Awaclus thing now!
(after flip)
Woot woot.
Vig: Silverspawn
I should probably stay alive tomorrow (assuming scum will shoot a PR). If I can hammer the last scum tomorrow I will have hammered all scum this game. Heavily leaning Silver, have to consider EFHW, RR is very slim chance.
I wonder if Silver is going for the 'I can't be scum because I'm not paying enough attention to the game' thing.
EFHW going after RR is odd. I don't think RR is scum here; I'm not sure if EFHW would actually think so. But, she hasn't played with him before.
I don't believe Silver at all. This is not town Silver.
I'll probably quickhammer if he gets to L-1.
(Silver flips)
Well, sorry Silver. I actually thought the self vote was a desperate gambit, trying to make us think scum!you would never do that.
So if Egor is left alive it will be weird... EFHW would do it, I think. RR I have no clue about. If it's me, EFHW, RR, I'll have to seriously think tomorrow. If it's me, Egor, and anyone, that will be tough.
I guess EFHW and RR are about equal for me now.
The one thing against Egor is that he didn't sound like he had a PR day 1. He was also for the plan, where most (all?) PRs were against it. I was even against is as a fake PR.
EFHW seems more genuine in her play towards the end there, though it could just be that it's easy to get involved in the (pointless) probability discussion.
Really, I wish people would stop going through that stuff. Even if we conclude that some case is super unlikely, scum has a trivial "why would I possibly lie when me telling the truth can happen in a 1/xxxx scenario?"
I think it was kind of bad to Silver to even get involved there (wouldn't town!Silver have already considered this?!), and obviously bad from Egor. Plus the Teproc block was just a very "hey, this is what I'd do as town---look I have a great excuse!" thing. I'm really surprised Silver was town.
I'm leaning towards RR now, but I'll have to reread. May wait until the day starts in case I happen to die tonight.
Also her frustration seemed genuine, but again it could just be the argument. Another reason why it's bad; it distracts from actual scumhunting.
I have to put Egor back on the table I guess.. he was mostly off because his play since around the time of his claiming has seemed indicative of thinking as an actual PR. It's possible this was just an artifact of his intent to claim a PR and then stay consistent after the claim. But still, I think scum would full claim (like Awaclus did), and not act to protect their PR. That can, of course, be faked, but it's more likely a real PR will realize this than a fake claimer.
(discussion with Yuma regarding starting day early, which I'm omitting)
There's a good chance I'm going to end up voting RR. Not, like, certain, but probable. Egor's claim does not read fake.
RR may have slipped back in r968:
Quote from: silverspawn on January 24, 2016, 05:08:05 pm
if we believe Egork, then EFHW is an IC, so it's either WW or RR, and I'm pretty sure it's not WW, so... RR?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have to consider Bus Driver shenanigans.
I think at that time I wasn't really thinking about what scum's last PR was, and did we even know it was Bus Driver?
Well:
11 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Rolecop + Roleblocker. Total 8 shots
12 shots mafia gets: Shot Changer + Roleblocker + Bus Driver. Total 8 shots
This is interesting. So we have had.. Cop, Rolecop, Roleblocker, Watcher, and claimed Roleblocker. The only way that claim can be true is this scenario:
5. If town receives no 1, 2 or 3s (Cop, Vig, JK) in its first four rolls then the town will receive an extra fifth roll. However, this additional roll will bring in zero additional shots for town. If a 1, 2, or 3 is rolled for the fifth shot, 2 shots will be removed from the town total.
Example4: Role: 6, 4, 4, 10 extra roll is 9 = BG (3), RB (3), RB (3), Shot Changer (2) + extra roll: 9 = Rolecop (0) for a total of 11 shots.
Example5: Role: 4, 6, 5, 10 extra roll is 2 = RB (3), BG (3), Watcher (3), Shot Changer (2) + extra roll: 2 = Vig (-2) for a total of 9 shots.
Where the last role had to be 1 (Cop). So it had to be:
4, 5, 9, 4 (claimed), 1, bringing in: 3,3,4,3, -2 shots, for 11 shots.
So.. scum has to have Rolecop?
So, scum!RR is spreading misinformation for confusion, or town!RR is just pondering.
What are we in if Egor is lying?
Then we rolled 4,5,9,1. We are in none of cases 2,3,4, or 5. So we have: 3,3,4,1 shots for 11. Okay, so 11 shots regardless, so last scum has to be Rolecop?
I don't know, though, Egor seemed to consider the Bus Driver case just as much as RR.
Rereading RR there are so many "slips" in setup knowledge that it's suspicious.
But of course, confirmation bias. If I thought he was more likely town now I'd probably see it as townie.
RR tossing me together with Awaclus as "scummy" looks like classical partner play.. say you're willing to lynch your partner, also put the person you really want to get lynched in there, hope it ends on the other guy.
Another possible case of "partner lumping" from RR:
"Is this going to be a repeat of the Ash thing? Cause that's where this looks like it's headed.
Or let's consider this for two seconds: this is a mock fight between two scum
PPE"
I basically expected Egor to not post in his personal QT, as town or scum. Not really surprised there, though unfortunate. Not sure what to expect from RR.
If he 'copies' Egor's answer it will be suspicious.
Again with RR on r707 "one is probably scum, or both". I did this so much on Ash v. Andrew in my first scum game (WoT).
"If EFHW is 'cleared,' I like a WW lynch I guess. But man, scum has been playing pretty well. No one really seems super scummy."
"scum has been playing pretty well" is such a scummy thing to say :(
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I'm obviously leaning RR. I was planning to hold out reads to see what you guys would do, but I don't think much is coming from that.
Really, the only thing pointing towards Egor is that he didn't sound like he had a PR Day 1. Otherwise, he's seemed like town him. RR is clasically scummy, but it's generally hard for me to tell with him.
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This is pretty awful. I'll have to add 'scummy' to my list of metas. I don't really know what to say. Screaming 'I'm town' over and over again is boring and pointless. Making a case against Egor is pointless. If you're willing to take the 1 in whatever chance that Egor is actually a PR, be my guest. But he is a PR. He's a rolecop. And he's about to win.
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I guess I could blab on and on about how you suffer from conformation bias, but that seems pointless. I'll mine as well Vote: Egor. I have to sleep soon, I probably won't live through that. Egor will vote for me, you'll overthink it x10 then the game will be over.
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Confirming not scum, for what it's worth.
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Too bad I'm never scum in this situation.
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Really, the chance that we had 5 PR's is just 24.1%. It's really not that unlikely.
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It's also a bad argument, and it was a bad argument yesterday, and it's not why Silver got lynched.
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It's also a bad argument, and it was a bad argument yesterday, and it's not why Silver got lynched.
There is nothing I can do to be not-dead. The strength of my arguements are irrelevant. Here's what's relevant: I'm about to get lynched and we're about to lose. That's all that matters to me. I can't change that, I'll mine as well try, but meh. I can't change your mind. The game's over, WW. I think you and me both know it. At least, I know it.
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That's not convincing at all, and if you are town, you're not helping us.
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That's not convincing at all, and if you are town, you're not helping us.
I know it's not convincing. I'm pretty sure I said 'I can't change your mind.' And I can't help us, WW. I'd suggest rereading. Or trusting me, for once. But I can't help us. I don't know how.
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Like, read, give insight?
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Like, read, give insight?
Sure, why not? I can look for a scum slip that isn't there. And by insight...I think I have to read to give insight. Saying 'Egor is scum' is technically insightful, but it's also useless.
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Okay, I'm about to go asleep. Unless someone gives me a solid reason as to why I should remove my vote, it'll stay for the next seven hours. But if you have anything to say, it should be in the next 10 minutes. I'm tired.
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Well, at least no need to pursue wild theories and stuff like this
Vote: RR
So I just need to prove I am town/RR is scum, no need to think. Great
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Vote Count 6.1
EgorK (1): RR (L-1)
RR (1): EgorK (L-1)
Not Voting (1): WW
With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch.
Day6 will last for 7 days and will end February 2, 2016 at 1:00 pm forum time.
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So... how's that proof coming?
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Well, I had not had time yet, so I'll start with obvious
My voting record vs RR voting record - I think that was already posted and I'll find it and quote
My conversation with Teproc in the end of D4 - I had breadcrumbed my N2 action and he confirmed that his results as of N2 were not usual. I'll quote this as well
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Interesting. Teproc, had you used your power N2?
I'm not sure I want to answer that. Pretty sure it's only worth it if we're fullclaiming, and in thise case, well, I'd rather you went first obviously.
I would not claim before you and have compelling reason to do so which town would be able to deem appropriate
Huh ? You'd have compelling reason to do so as scum too, so we'll have to let the rest of town decide this if it comes to that.
What the problem? Town'll just lynch me if reason supplied by me is not appropriate
Fine. I did use my power on night 2.
Teproc, was there any anomalies?
Yes.
PPE : Currently thinking about it.
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My votes:
D1:
RR (RVS)
D2:
XP
D3:
XP
D4:
Awaclus
D5:
ss
unvote
ss
D6:
RR
Funny, until D5 I only voted scum (even through my RR vote was RVS - it was 1st post D1)
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RR and Awaclus votes:
D1:
#48 Awa: ss (RVS)
#155 RR: Hydrad
#201 Awa: RR
D2:
#360 Awa: ash
#369 RR: ash
D3:
#414 RR: XP (first post of the day)
#418 Awa: XP
#424 RR: unvote
#425 Awa: unvote
D4:
#595 Awa: WW
#598 RR: WW
#666 RR: unvotes, says Awaclus is scummy, but not voting him
D5:
D6:
#1142 RR: EgorK
Not sure what to take from Awa votes here, just remembered EFHW found it interesting
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So the thing with Teproc is the biggest thing in your favor, and how you claimed, because it does look like a real PR claim.
However, you could have planned it once you decided you were claiming PR, which could have happened back on Day 2/3. And, as you say, you could have known Teproc was really blocked Night 2 by XP.
Could you go over your reasoning for choosing targets each night?
Interesting, if Egor is telling the truth then town!PR!Teproc got Roleblocked by town twice.
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EFHW found it interesting because it was tandem with Awaclus. I'm not certain scum does this, though I've thought a couple times that I would want to try it as scum.
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My votes:
D1:
RR (RVS)
D2:
XP
D3:
XP
D4:
Awaclus
D5:
ss
unvote
ss
D6:
RR
Funny, until D5 I only voted scum (even through my RR vote was RVS - it was 1st post D1)
Thing is that voting record is fairly null. XP was caught caught. In your shoes, I would have quickly voted XP day 2. Day 3 XP votes mean nothing. So, the Awaclus one is the only one of note. But it was mainly you v. Awaclus Day 4, so not certain there.
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Well, Teproc N2 because I ghought XP were unlikely to perform NK, and I think veteran players meta as a whole is to do crazy things as scum lately, like voting for PRs that claimed to have caught scum. Gkrieg just came out scummy out of all this ash vs XP debacle, though I could not remember why for the hell of this. N4 I actually first submitted RR as target, but then decided it would be much better to confirm EFHW, more or less. That was big mistake, I should have keep it on RR or switch to ss, but I am layely has irrational fear of too towny players (hello, faust). N5 I did not think there is much chance I had shots, but why not?
Also I remember I gave out town read to Teproc D4, which was solely based on the fact there were kill N2. A minor point, but worth mentioning
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Okay, the less I talk the more likely I am to be dead. So let's start talking.
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My voting list is sort of garbage. Awaclus followed me more than I followed him. I could totally see him sheeping me because he knows how bad my reads are.
I'd also like to point out that there's a 24.7% chance of Egor being a roleblocker (I think that's what we finally came up with). That's really low! It doesn't look as low as we thought, but man, it's so unlikely! It's very reasonable to assume that Egor killed EFHW for the sheer truckload of WIFOM. I don't think I'd be bold enough as scum to kill her.
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I know change is scary, and changing your opinion may seem like a bad idea, so I guess I'd suggest consulting your gut @WW.
Good night.
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My voting list is sort of garbage. Awaclus followed me more than I followed him. I could totally see him sheeping me because he knows how bad my reads are.
I'd also like to point out that there's a 24.7% chance of Egor being a roleblocker (I think that's what we finally came up with). That's really low! It doesn't look as low as we thought, but man, it's so unlikely! It's very reasonable to assume that Egor killed EFHW for the sheer truckload of WIFOM. I don't think I'd be bold enough as scum to kill her.
Why? How would scum!you respond to an EFHW that obviously wanted to lynch you?
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It is 1:20, not 24%. That's very unfortunate as WW need really huge town apriori read on me to overcome this probability. Seems like town just got unlucky with RNG this game
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It is 1:20, not 24%. That's very unfortunate as WW need really huge town apriori read on me to overcome this probability. Seems like town just got unlucky with RNG this game
No, the only thing relevant here is 5 PRs or not. We just had to not roll {1,2,3} in the first four rolls.
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I really do not want to continue this discussion as incorrect chance calculation that you and EFHW insist on is beneficial to town in this case
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You mean, given that we had a Cop? I suppose that's fair, but it still has little impact to how I'll decide
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My voting list is sort of garbage. Awaclus followed me more than I followed him. I could totally see him sheeping me because he knows how bad my reads are.
I'd also like to point out that there's a 24.7% chance of Egor being a roleblocker (I think that's what we finally came up with). That's really low! It doesn't look as low as we thought, but man, it's so unlikely! It's very reasonable to assume that Egor killed EFHW for the sheer truckload of WIFOM. I don't think I'd be bold enough as scum to kill her.
Why? How would scum!you respond to an EFHW that obviously wanted to lynch you?
I have no idea.
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Then why did you say it would be bold?
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Then why did you say it would be bold?
Because killing EFHW is 'more likely' to come from scum me than scum Egor, right? So Egor would've killed EFHW to make me look more scummy.
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WW, I think you're leaning towards me even more after Egor talked some more. So I'd like to ask you this: do you want to take a leap of faith and vote for me or do you want to trust numbers and vote for Egor?
This is probably a bad question to ask, seeing as I am vaguely familiar with your playstyle, but I still want to ask it. Numbers or coin flip?
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Then why did you say it would be bold?
Because killing EFHW is 'more likely' to come from scum me than scum Egor, right? So Egor would've killed EFHW to make me look more scummy.
If that's the case, why did you say you had no idea how 'scum you' would handle it?
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WW, I think you're leaning towards me even more after Egor talked some more. So I'd like to ask you this: do you want to take a leap of faith and vote for me or do you want to trust numbers and vote for Egor?
This is probably a bad question to ask, seeing as I am vaguely familiar with your playstyle, but I still want to ask it. Numbers or coin flip?
I don't see a point in answering this.
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Then why did you say it would be bold?
Because killing EFHW is 'more likely' to come from scum me than scum Egor, right? So Egor would've killed EFHW to make me look more scummy.
If that's the case, why did you say you had no idea how 'scum you' would handle it?
Because I probably wouldn't do that as scum, so I'd have to cross that bridge when I came to it.
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Now you just sound like you're contradicting yourself.
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Now you just sound like you're contradicting yourself.
I do that sometimes.
But how?
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Vote Count 6.2
EgorK (1): RR (L-1)
RR (1): EgorK (L-1)
Not Voting (1): WW
With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch.
Day6 will last for 7 days and will end February 2, 2016 at 1:00 pm forum time.
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Been very busy past few days. Moved into a new place and don't have internet here until Monday. I'll try to get to a reread tomorrow or Monday.
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I've been busy too.
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February second is pretty soon. Time might turn into a factor. But don't feel pressured, WW.
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Vote Count 6.3
EgorK (1): RR (L-1)
RR (1): EgorK (L-1)
Not Voting (1): WW
With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch.
Day6 will last for 7 days and will end February 2, 2016 at 1:00 pm forum time.
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I started to reread yesterday. I'll finish up and make a decision (late) tonight. Probably won't have time to make detailed thought posts as I read. Not that those matter really at this point.
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I'll stay up late to see if WW will really make his choice today. But I'm super excited/nervous.
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Hmm. vote: Ashersky
Ash is always confusing - I'm not sure why he's doing this, but I think it works out well for us overall. I read the setup, and the chance of a bus driver targeting me is pretty low, so tomorrow can be an auto-lynch even if I'm lynched today.
I'm not sure whether to claim, but I'm leaning toward yes. Thoughts about that?
Of note: Xerxes plants the idea of Bus Driver early. Mitigates the effect of people talking about it later, though that was about equal between RR and Egor.
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Okay, I know I said I wouldn't talk because I just need to crawl in a corner and die, but this is honestly stupid.
Ash seems really scummy (not that I know, cause my reads are Grade-A trash) especially with the pick A or B crap. You're not confirmed town. You'd like to think you are, but you're not. You've been a very scummy 'cop,' and Teproc makes good points. But I'm not voting until we hear from Xerxes.
PPE
Response to Ash's claim. Could be scummy or could be RR. Egor responds with a vote and nothing else. Both could go either way.
-
Back and forth between RR and XP after that could easily be partners.
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I think I'm going to get lynched here, but I did enjoy this game quite a bit. I just hope WW keeps an open mind in the last few minutes before he casts the final vote.
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Okay, Teproc, I guess life goes on. Now I'm going to Vote: Ashersky. He's been a very, very scummy 'PR.'
PPE
This is scummy. Before it came two over explained posts about why he should vote Ash.
-
Unvote
PPE
This is a somewhat townie reaction to Ash hammering himself, though.
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RR - Had the whole posting Umbrage's guide and seeming to use that.
EgorK - I don't remember much here. 5 posts. One RVS, 2 votes XP, and 2 about mass claiming.
Awaclus - Says the vig shouldn't shoot, votes RR D1, votes ash D2, votes and unvotes xp D3. Gives the setup analysis post indicating no bus driver.
Teproc - Seems to be the other scum based on his reaction to XP. He says thinking of a no-lynch might be good. Says WW shouldn't shoot, tries to organize who should use shots. Has tons of theory posts, with only a small real post. Says he tentatively feels good about the Hydrad lynch. Does heavy defending of XP D2. Says ash is full of baloney. The more I read, the more scummy he gets. Then he doesn't want us to let scum know what we are thinking D3. I think we should definitely discuss things. Then he wants people to breadcrumb/claim. This is going downhill super fast.
EFHW - She has a lot of theory posts about the semi-mass claim. Then makes the case on me and votes for me. There wasn't much to analyze to judge my alignment at that point. I'm still not sure why she focused on me, when there were more lurkers in the game.
Xerxes - scum
ss - Doesn't really seem to be paying attention, which is weird because there was plenty of setup talk to be involved in. He was tentatively agains the semimass claim. Then votes WW after he knew about the claim, Then votes ash D2 as a policy vote. Then he talks about having a short day.
gkrieg - IC
WW - vig - makes sense, his claim hasn't been countered, and no other PRs have come up.
Looking at all all these people, I would say XP is conf!scum, Teproc is one of his partners and I would say I don't think it is EFHW, EgorK, or WW for the last one which leaves ss, RR, and Awaclus for the last scum.
Gkrieg's post before he gets NK'd. Well, if it is Awaclus/RR, this would be a good reason for him to die as he had the remaining two scum in a set of three.
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I am leaning on Awaclus, but need to have reread to make a case. Silver also not top town read for me
Teproc and EFHW are though. On the other hand EFHW warrant review as well - she's a universal town read, which sometimes backfires
Okay, partner just got lynched, Egor has two votes on him already.. does he try to bus here? This is before Egor v. Awaclus was a certainty. Seems like a bad scum play. So town points for that.
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Well, Awaclus reread wasn't that hard. Nothing really stand out from usual Awa play, at least from more modern Awaclus that we've seen last couple of games. He is good at being unreadable though, so all we have is his voting record, and that is no good - he voted ash D2 and unvoted from XP D3 (though I do not asign much weight to later). Vote: Awaclus for now
And to follow.
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Well, ok. I am remaining PR (if WW tells truth). I can claim which if you want, but I am not sure it is needed unless there is counterclaim
This is sounds like a town claim.
-
Unvote
Awaclus is scummy now. Not to the point where I'd start a wagon on him, but anti-town play is...you know, anti town. Why do we think SS is scum here? Cause he's quiet?
Now Egor has died down and Awaclus is at L-2. Odd statement here about starting a wagon, since there is a wagon. Continues to call Awaclus scummy while supporting alternate lynches (like me). Doesn't actually vote for Awaclus. This is more indicative of partner than Egor's Day 4.
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What's your scum narrative for WW?
Lying is scummy in my book.
Did you reread me? Find anything fun?
But what would have been scum!WW's motivation? Lying as town is ill advised, but it happens with alarming frequency.
If you 'lie as town' you're not a part of the town anymore in my opinion. That's not the way we do things if we want to win.
That is not an answer. What I'm getting at is I think these are manufactured reads. I'll check out the other games, though.
I'm saying people who lie as town are scummy. There are certain things scum does, lying is one of them.
I believe in policy lynches. Liars are people who should get policy lynched.
Possible slip? Seems to be saying I'm town here.
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So, I believe WW because if he is scum he made situation so much worse. Suppose he is not retracting his clai, we are evntually counterclaimed, and there are 1 scum among 3 claimed PRs and 1 among 4 claimed VTs. Now worse case scenario for town other PR just claim. We'd have 2 scum among 5 claimed VTs and 2 IC. Much better for town
I still want feedback on this
This feels more genuine from Egor, like he's actually considering whether or not I'm scum. On the other hand, scum!Egor knows I'm telling the truth now, so this could just be trying to justify that.
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Interesting. Teproc, had you used your power N2?
This is clever and fast thinking if Egor is scum. Only 7 minutes after Teproc posted. I guess Egor could have had his fake claim actions all lined up, borrowing XP's real actions in case of Tracking/Watching/whatever. But, really, this makes me believe Egor.
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Rule clarification please.
The clarification sought here is too vague. Please ask a more precise question to be answered.
Can a town aligned roleblocker roleblock another town aligned roleblocker?
Man, why town-aligned?
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And finally to today. Well, RR comes out of the gates defensive, trying to convince me he's town. But town!RR should really be considering whether it's me or Egor that is scum. He says this:
So I'm pretty sure WW is town. By process of elimination, that makes Egor. And there's either a 1/10 chance or a 1/21 chance of Egor being town.
Bur no rushed decisions, anyone!
PPE
but doesn't actually do any work, like rereading. I mean, the game rests on this decision, you have to do some work here.
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Egor, though, doesn't really have much content. Not like he did a reread either. This one post:
I'm town.
Egor, do you think there is a chance I'm scum?
Chance? Yes, until the moment you flip/mod confirmed. Do I think you are last scum? Currently I am pretty sure RR is, but this exact your post make me reluctant vote right away
points towards town to me. I think scum is more likely to buddy here than to keep up the charade that I could be scum.
scum!Egor could just be stalling; RR ends up voting and confirming me as town before Egor says much substantial.
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I had typed up some night kill analysis on what who is alive indicates, and what each person would have done as scum. But, really, it'ms mostly WIFOM. Instead I'm just going to
Vote: Roadrunner
I cannot justify any other decision.
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So sorry if I got it wrong.
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Town wins in 3p LyLo once again. Good job WW
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Oh good.
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Final Day 6 Vote Count
EgorK (1): RR
RR (2): EgorK, WW
With 3 alive it took 2 to lynch.
Roadrunner has been lynched. He was a Mafia Rolecop.
Town Wins!
links:
speccy (http://quicktopic.com/52/H/YVeEgEnLnDaA)
mod QT (http://quicktopic.com/52/H/ExSeg6uSMRLd)
Mafia QT (http://quicktopic.com/52/H/sbRUUz2Eqfw)
Private QTs may be shared by the individuals they were given to.
MVP: EFHW for being completely and totally right about RR as well as being generally correct throughout the rest of the game.
Night Actions:
Night1:
ashersky rolecops xerxes: Result (Roleblocker)
Teproc watches silverspawn: No Result
ADK cops faust: Result (Not Guilty)
Xerxes night kills faust
RR investigates EFHW: Result (Vanilla)
Awaclus shot changes WW: No effect
Night2:
ADK cops: Teproc: Result (Not Guilty)
Teproc Watches ADK: No Result
EgorK roleblocks Teproc
RR rolecops Teproc: Result (Watcher)
Xerxes roleblocks ss
Xerxes uses Bulletproof
Awaclus night kills ADK
Night3:
Teproc Watches WW: No Result
Egork roleblocks gkrieg
RR rolecops ss: Result (Roleblocker)
Awaclus night kills gkrieg
Night4:
EgorK roleblocks EFHW
ss roleblocks Teproc
Teproc Watches EgorK: No Result
RR kills Teproc
RR rolecops EgorK: Result (Roleblocker)
Night5:
EgorK blocks RR (Out of Shots)
RR strongman kills EFHW
Thread Unlocked for Everyone
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Hooray.
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Yay go us! Why did you guys kill me?
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Here's mine: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/JRPXCZJXSSz
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Man, I knew that was coming, but I'm still disappointed.
Good game.
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I don't feel so guilty about the SS lynch yesterday. I mean, the argument is that he wouldn't play that badly as scum, but why would he has town? His claim really came off as more desperate to me; it looked like he was grasping at straws.
I agree that the probability arguments were pretty bad, but I wanted to lynch him without that.
But grats to EFHW for correctly analyzing RR; that's something I cannot seem to do.
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Yay go us! Why did you guys kill me?
I don't know what RR's reasoning behind it was, but I was fine with it mostly because I didn't anticipate Teproc being as difficult to mislynch as he turned out to be, so I wanted to keep him alive, and out of the remaining options, you had a good chance of being a PR because of PoE and you also had slightly inconvenient reads.
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I didn't think the self-vote did him any favors, either.
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I didn't think the self-vote did him any favors, either.
Hear, hear.
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My QT : http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/s8mrMikThEG
Congrats WW, that was another tough lylo, I kept going back and forth.
I'd feel sad that you got two lylos right in a row and no MVPs, but then I remembered you fakeclaimed Vig as VT, and I feel fine about it. Still think that was a terrible idea (looks like scum completely ignored it and I made many bad decisions based on it, which is on me but still).
EFHW being able to read RR is something to keep in mind, because I still have no idea what made him different here than Marvel Heroes.
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Yay go us! Why did you guys kill me?
I don't know what RR's reasoning behind it was, but I was fine with it mostly because I didn't anticipate Teproc being as difficult to mislynch as he turned out to be, so I wanted to keep him alive, and out of the remaining options, you had a good chance of being a PR because of PoE and you also had slightly inconvenient reads.
But you knew I was a Watcher, that's what surprises me here. I was pretty mislynchable as VT, much less so as Watcher I think.
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Here's mine: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/JRPXCZJXSSz
I don't really agree with what Yuma said in there regarding your play. I didn't even start to read Day 2 until you were already hammered, but I got a pretty strong sense you were telling the truth. And though self-voting/self-hammering is not great, it did give us a the votes to analyze for later days.
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RR gets a losers consolation MVP. He would have been the MVP had WW chosen the other way. He was able to maintain his meta pretty well throughout this game. I think the end game could have used some work, but coming from a guy who has lost like 6 games at mylo as scum I can't really offer any advice.
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My QT : http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/s8mrMikThEG
Congrats WW, that was another tough lylo, I kept going back and forth.
I'd feel sad that you got two lylos right in a row and no MVPs, but then I remembered you fakeclaimed Vig as VT, and I feel fine about it. Still think that was a terrible idea (looks like scum completely ignored it and I made many bad decisions based on it, which is on me but still).
EFHW being able to read RR is something to keep in mind, because I still have no idea what made him different here than Marvel Heroes.
Haha. I guess I did take one shot from scum, so there's that. Though I also took a shot from you :/
I've basically posted mine, but here it is:
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/mpFbKwbSerE9m
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I did hammer all scum in this game, so there's that.
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Here's mine: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/JRPXCZJXSSz
I don't really agree with what Yuma said in there regarding your play. I didn't even start to read Day 2 until you were already hammered, but I got a pretty strong sense you were telling the truth. And though self-voting/self-hammering is not great, it did give us a the votes to analyze for later days.
I never did offer up that analysis. Got busy. But my main critique of this was that he wasn't that he was telling the truth, it was that he was stretching it.
I saw no reason to state that he was sure Xerxes was scum when his result of a "roleblocker" was ambiguous, especially as I knew as a mod that there were two other town roleblockers.
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I know my endgame was horrible, I'm pretty sure I talked about that in my Mafia QT. I guess I should've night killed WW and taken my chances...?
PPE
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RR gets a losers consolation MVP. He would have been the MVP had WW chosen the other way. He was able to maintain his meta pretty well throughout this game. I think the end game could have used some work, but coming from a guy who has lost like 6 games at mylo as scum I can't really offer any advice.
Yeah, but I thought he actually played it well. But not claiming how strong of a result he actually had, he forced Xerxes into making a mistake. Then he was certain.
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RR gets a losers consolation MVP. He would have been the MVP had WW chosen the other way. He was able to maintain his meta pretty well throughout this game. I think the end game could have used some work, but coming from a guy who has lost like 6 games at mylo as scum I can't really offer any advice.
Yeah, but I thought he actually played it well. But not claiming how strong of a result he actually had, he forced Xerxes into making a mistake. Then he was certain.
Yeah, that was a weird claim by Xerxes. I will admit that part of my criticism is tinted by what I wanted to happen as a mod. I wanted him to claim Xerxes was a roleblocker and be uncertain about his alignment only to have ss and EgorK claim and have three roleblockers claimed and alive at the same time. I thought that would be fun. But that is only a minor reason for my criticism.
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Where's the majority of f.ds who thinks roleblocker beats strongman ? Because I'm definitely not part of it. Strongman'd be pretty weak otherwise compared to ninja, as ninja has the natural advantage of protecting from a much worse scenario (getting caught vs no kill).
PPE : Killing EFHW was definitely right, RR.
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RR gets a losers consolation MVP. He would have been the MVP had WW chosen the other way. He was able to maintain his meta pretty well throughout this game. I think the end game could have used some work, but coming from a guy who has lost like 6 games at mylo as scum I can't really offer any advice.
I tried pretty hard to be objective in my reread of RR. Honestly a few times over the last week I was just going to say 'screw it' and vote RR, but I stopped myself. The big thing I wanted to check is that Egor's PR claim and actions around it and interactions with Teproc weren't (likely to be) faked.
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Yay go us! Why did you guys kill me?
I don't know what RR's reasoning behind it was, but I was fine with it mostly because I didn't anticipate Teproc being as difficult to mislynch as he turned out to be, so I wanted to keep him alive, and out of the remaining options, you had a good chance of being a PR because of PoE and you also had slightly inconvenient reads.
But you knew I was a Watcher, that's what surprises me here. I was pretty mislynchable as VT, much less so as Watcher I think.
I thought we kind of had to hope that we could lynch you regardless since so many townies were obvtown.
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I know my endgame was horrible, I'm pretty sure I talked about that in my Mafia QT. I guess I should've night killed WW and taken my chances...?
PPE
The only thing going for you there is the "RR would have killed EFHW if he was scum" WIFOM, which may have worked for you. But it's tough. I think you made the right call there.
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My QT is hilarious for all the completely wrong setup speculation alone.
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I think that, going into 2v1, it's generally a good idea to kill the townie who's the least likely to vote for anyone but you unless that townie is very mislynchable themselves. Town tends to not care about that stuff as much as they probably should.
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Re : fake voting (discussed at the end of WW's QT) : I don't think it's against the spirit of the rules at all. It's yuma's game, so that's fine if he doesn't want people to do it in his games, but I feel it's a legitimate tactic for both alignments to use.
PPE : I generally agree. Town overestimates how likely scum is to kill for WIFOM.
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Also sorry about making the last day take really long, but I really was quite busy. Was out of town Thursday and Friday, and moved into a new apartment on Saturday.
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Re : fake voting (discussed at the end of WW's QT) : I don't think it's against the spirit of the rules at all. It's yuma's game, so that's fine if he doesn't want people to do it in his games, but I feel it's a legitimate tactic for both alignments to use.
The reason I tend to implement rules against it is that it makes mod mistakes too easy. Let's say WW did that without telling me. It is very conceivable that I wouldn't have realized it was a fake vote and ended the game then and there. That makes me wary as a mod. Obviously I try to be as careful as I can in getting the vote counts right, but this is just one area where a mod mistake is increased and I don't like that as a mod.
Scripts that are written like ss has prevents that, but I don't have the technical ability to do that.
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Lots of math talk in the speccy. 24% is not wrong at all; that was the a priori chance we had 5 PRs, which is what we were calculating. Taking into account that we had a Cop flip, however, does reduce that. (Which I didn't do.)
The issue with Egor's calculation is it makes no difference between lying!him and truthing!him scenarios whether Watcher, Rolecop, and Roleblocker were those three roles or any roles in {4, 5, ..., 10}.
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Haha, best speccy quote:
I'm glad claiming roleblocker has been more common than claiming VT this game
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Thanks yuma. Kudos to EgorK for playing so towny, too.
So was the math right? Did the scenario with 5% chance of happening happen, or was there a flaw in the assumptions?
I read RR as scum when his self-attacks started feeling exaggerated. I really thought the voting pattern would convince everyone, I was surprised when he wasn't lynched right away.
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My QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/7C3SY4hYkYFSJ
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Someone else can answer the math question:
But the setup rolled was thus: First four rolls: 4, 5, 4, 9 = Roleblocker(3), Watcher(3), Roleblocker(3), Rolecop(4)
Causing a fifth roll: (1) = Cop (-2).
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Thanks yuma. Kudos to EgorK for playing so towny, too.
So was the math right? Did the scenario with 5% chance of happening happen, or was there a flaw in the assumptions?
I read RR as scum when his self-attacks started feeling exaggerated. I really thought the voting pattern would convince everyone, I was surprised when he wasn't lynched right away.
It depends what you mean by the scenario. The scenario of getting exactly our setup {Watcher, Rolecop, Roleblocker, Roleblocker, Cop} is very small, but that's not the correct analysis to figure out if Egor/SS were lying or not.
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Where's the majority of f.ds who thinks roleblocker beats strongman ? Because I'm definitely not part of it. Strongman'd be pretty weak otherwise compared to ninja, as ninja has the natural advantage of protecting from a much worse scenario (getting caught vs no kill).
Dunno, I just remember being in the minority when defending the position of Strongman defeating a Roleblocker.
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Mind blown regarding EFHW/lio.
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My QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/7C3SY4hYkYFSJ
Hah, didn't realise I was talking about you when I referenced the good old liopoil line about his parents being aliens ! Funny.
Also this QT really puts into focus how rong I've been about everything in this game (well, I think not dscussing reads on day 3 was correct actually).
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I won't deny that math is a part of this setup and is a part of the majority of most mafia setups that involve rolling for roles.
Using that math I think is good and if so inclined and capable helpful to winning.
But what I saw in this game, especially during day5, was an over-reliance on math. What I saw was players doing the math reaching a conclusion and then neglecting to substantiate it with reads, voting analysis, player interaction or anything else to reach a joint conclusion. Perhaps the conclusion would have still been the same, that it was best to lynch ss. But that lynch was rushed (as were all of the lynches this game except for Day6) and forced through. But I think there were strong compelling arguments to cause those who put forward (accurately the math argument) pause.
This is difficult because reads and interaction analysis can't really be quantified.
This is why I say math sucks. Not so much the math, but the reliance that people place on it that prohibits them from actually playing the game.
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So tomorrow my 'self confidence crumbles' and I see if I can get myself policy lynched. Teproc and EFHW will comfort me, and I will sheep EFHW to make sure she trusts me. And I'm a cop.
RR in the scum QT. Well, I won't underestimate him again !
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I understand why scum didn't kill WW the night I expected them too now. Not only did they know I was a Watcher, they also knew WW was probably lying at that point.
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So tomorrow my 'self confidence crumbles' and I see if I can get myself policy lynched. Teproc and EFHW will comfort me, and I will sheep EFHW to make sure she trusts me. And I'm a cop.
RR in the scum QT. Well, I won't underestimate him again !
I had such amazing plans. But man, my endgame was so bad!
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My QT : http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/s8mrMikThEG
Congrats WW, that was another tough lylo, I kept going back and forth.
I'd feel sad that you got two lylos right in a row and no MVPs, but then I remembered you fakeclaimed Vig as VT, and I feel fine about it. Still think that was a terrible idea (looks like scum completely ignored it and I made many bad decisions based on it, which is on me but still).
EFHW being able to read RR is something to keep in mind, because I still have no idea what made him different here than Marvel Heroes.
Haha. I guess I did take one shot from scum, so there's that. Though I also took a shot from you :/
I've basically posted mine, but here it is:
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/mpFbKwbSerE9m
Oh I was wrong here, Teproc Watched me, not Tracked me. Well, it did get scum to use a shot for Shot Changer, and use BP, though I guess that's part of JOAT and didn't cost much.
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Yeah but I watched you under the mistaken belief you were a vig and scum was kinda forced to kill you, which they weren't because they knew you wer elikely lying. So you did cost me a shot there.
Mostly I'm trying to pass the responsibility of my numerous mistakes about the setup on to you. Hope you don't mind.
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Mostly I'm trying to pass the responsibility of my numerous mistakes about the setup on to you. Hope you don't mind.
Well, if he minds, it's certainly his fault!
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Mind blown regarding EFHW/lio.
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Yeah but I watched you under the mistaken belief you were a vig and scum was kinda forced to kill you, which they weren't because they knew you wer elikely lying. So you did cost me a shot there.
Mostly I'm trying to pass the responsibility of my numerous mistakes about the setup on to you. Hope you don't mind.
Right, well.. they weren't supposed to know I was lying!
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Mind blown regarding EFHW/lio.
Wait, what? I thought EFHW was, like, in her early 20's.
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Mind blown regarding EFHW/lio.
Wait, what? I thought EFHW was, like, in her early 20's.
I'm sure she's okay with you continuing to think that.
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Mind blown regarding EFHW/lio.
I actually had to read her speccy to find it out. That is just too cool
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Mind blown regarding EFHW/lio.
Wait, what? I thought EFHW was, like, in her early 20's.
I'm sure she's okay with you continuing to think that.
Yep!
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So tomorrow my 'self confidence crumbles' and I see if I can get myself policy lynched. Teproc and EFHW will comfort me, and I will sheep EFHW to make sure she trusts me. And I'm a cop.
RR in the scum QT. Well, I won't underestimate him again !
It definitely helped that I had met him in person and seen him play Dominion at UCon
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So tomorrow my 'self confidence crumbles' and I see if I can get myself policy lynched. Teproc and EFHW will comfort me, and I will sheep EFHW to make sure she trusts me. And I'm a cop.
RR in the scum QT. Well, I won't underestimate him again !
It definitely helped that I had met him in person and seen him play Dominion at UCon
How did that help?
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I don't feel so guilty about the SS lynch yesterday. I mean, the argument is that he wouldn't play that badly as scum, but why would he has town? His claim really came off as more desperate to me; it looked like he was grasping at straws.
I agree that the probability arguments were pretty bad, but I wanted to lynch him without that.
But grats to EFHW for correctly analyzing RR; that's something I cannot seem to do.
because I do strange things as town for doing strange things as town because I wouldn't do them as scum
but yeah, I think I have at least 90% of the blame for my mislynch
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I don't feel so guilty about the SS lynch yesterday. I mean, the argument is that he wouldn't play that badly as scum, but why would he has town? His claim really came off as more desperate to me; it looked like he was grasping at straws.
I agree that the probability arguments were pretty bad, but I wanted to lynch him without that.
But grats to EFHW for correctly analyzing RR; that's something I cannot seem to do.
because I do strange things as town for doing strange things as town because I wouldn't do them as scum
but yeah, I think I have at least 90% of the blame for my mislynch
Yeah, I kind of thought scum!you decided to try to play that up.
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Yeah, I kind of thought scum!you decided to try to play that up.
... and scum!me might very well have tried that.
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I'm obviously really glad about this win, it means I didn't make my faction lose!
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So tomorrow my 'self confidence crumbles' and I see if I can get myself policy lynched. Teproc and EFHW will comfort me, and I will sheep EFHW to make sure she trusts me. And I'm a cop.
RR in the scum QT. Well, I won't underestimate him again !
It definitely helped that I had met him in person and seen him play Dominion at UCon
How did that help?
Because you were crafty, strategic and confident.