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[Eevee]

I think raerae is what she claims she is. No pr reason for this.

[LaLight]

Catching up

Ok this is weird. I thought you already flipped werewolf and then I realised it was a dream when I saw your post

Was it a prophetic dream?

We'll seer

[Eevee]

Scum wanting to shoot other scum rather than town make the drawbacks of massclaim less severe for us. It's an idea for today or tomorrow.

[mail-mi]

Catching up

Ok this is weird. I thought you already flipped werewolf and then I realised it was a dream when I saw your post

Was it a prophetic dream?

We'll seer

let's see. vote: efhw

[EFHW]

Sorry, but what exactly is the risk of raerae's created-Lover coming forward?

The lovers were all grouped together. If there were more than two, hers is still at risk.

[EFHW]

Catching up

Ok this is weird. I thought you already flipped werewolf and then I realised it was a dream when I saw your post

Hm, I'm not sure what to make of this.

[mail-mi]

Sorry, but what exactly is the risk of raerae's created-Lover coming forward?

The lovers were all grouped together. If there were more than two, hers is still at risk.

No her and her lover are a separate group.

[EFHW]

shraeye discarded Compulsive Childkiller - I personally think that this role has the potential for a HUGE amount of positive utility. Also, that utility is dependent upon someone NOT throwing away IC (which, while it did happen, could not realistically be expected to happen). Shraeye is smart, so I doubt they did not also consider this same utility. This is a sore thumb for me. I do not know if I could of taken most cop roles over this is given the choice.

What is the positive utility? It seems strictly negative utility to me.

[raerae]

Sorry, but what exactly is the risk of raerae's created-Lover coming forward?

The lovers were all grouped together. If there were more than two, hers is still at risk.

No her and her lover are a separate group.

But we'll always have Paris...

[Swowl]

shraeye discarded Compulsive Childkiller - I personally think that this role has the potential for a HUGE amount of positive utility. Also, that utility is dependent upon someone NOT throwing away IC (which, while it did happen, could not realistically be expected to happen). Shraeye is smart, so I doubt they did not also consider this same utility. This is a sore thumb for me. I do not know if I could of taken most cop roles over this is given the choice.

What is the positive utility? It seems strictly negative utility to me.

OK so I also thought this at first. But there is just a ton of information that makes it worthwhile IMO.

So after you do the thing and say shoot and they die... you live. So now you are IC. The only difference at that point from the PoV of other players is
1) It is you instead of them
2) they are dead - that part sucks town down and all
3) Town down and all is weighed against the information you get from the people that were pushing the IC. That could be extremely valuable.

There is also the far fetched strategy of just not saying anything after the IC claims until the IC inevitably dies. Then you make your first post "shoot:IC" and continue as yet another IC. The bread crumbing would be pretty freeking obvious.

All in all, like I said.. it has the potential for a large upside positive utility, not that it is GTD. That is why it is not at the top of my list.

[Swowl]

Rae - Why did you claim? As in, what benefit did you see it serving claiming after MiX had died?

[shraeye]

What makes you think that person knows they were targeted?

This might seem a bit picky, but shouldn't you know that?

The first thing I did when I picked my role, before it was even confirmed if the game's setup would work out, was ask Kernel how my kill works in specific situations. And it was stupid stuff like who would die if I target a PGO, what exactly happens if I get reloaded by the Reloader, and does my kill go through if I die.

"Will my chosen Lover know they have become a Lover?" would have been one of those question if I had picked the Nymphomaniac.

Again, just because you wanted to know every intricacy of your role, doesn't mean everybody else wants that level of detail

[shraeye]

Second, answering a question with a question is suspect at best.

My mistake, I thought you were asking with a different emphasis.
Answer: Always the optimist, I'm considering the the best case scenario. It's the best case scenario for you because someone can step forward and vouch for your roleclaim. For me and everyone else here, we can cross off two player from being scum, or else tie them together in our future suspicions.
The "worst" (it's not really bad at all) case scenario is that you're right, the Lover you created doesn't know, and you've claimed a role that can't be verified without going into the next night and we should move back to Space or Swan or whoever.

You think she's lying about what role she had?  That is somewhere between 98% and 190% unlikely.

I'm not sure what makes you think a scum would come forward saying they were vanilized with no prompting, then pick a random role and hope nobody else had it.  What scum would do that instead of say, not claiming anything?

[shraeye]

Sorry, but what exactly is the risk of raerae's created-Lover coming forward?

The lovers were all grouped together. If there were more than two, hers is still at risk.

No her and her lover are a separate group.

But we'll always have Paris...

Nice one

[shraeye]

shraeye discarded Compulsive Childkiller - I personally think that this role has the potential for a HUGE amount of positive utility. Also, that utility is dependent upon someone NOT throwing away IC (which, while it did happen, could not realistically be expected to happen). Shraeye is smart, so I doubt they did not also consider this same utility. This is a sore thumb for me. I do not know if I could of taken most cop roles over this is given the choice.

What is the positive utility? It seems strictly negative utility to me.

It's either A) a named townie, which is 1-4% better than VT or B) replaces an IC with a different IC*

*Note, not actual IC, because mafia dayvig exists.


That all seems pretty negative utility to me.  But also, I almost picked it because that is a hilarious role.  So, there's that.

[shraeye]

Also, DatSwan has been posting back to back more, presumably trying to even out his ratio of post-parities since I called him out for being lopsided.

Don't think it's gone unnoticed

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning!

I’m semi-VLA this weekend. The family is in Waco for some tourist fun! It’s Waco, so we will see how that goes. But there is a great bourbon distillery so that always makes family fun just a bit more fun. But I will be mostly unavailable during the day.

Vote: pubby because I forgot he was playing until I went back and reread today, and Brighty says he smells.

[raerae]

Rae - Why did you claim? As in, what benefit did you see it serving claiming after MiX had died?

I didn't see any downside either so why not get some chatter about it?

[Brightgalrs]

Again, just because you wanted to know every intricacy of your role, doesn't mean everybody else wants that level of detail

"Just because you would X, doesn't mean everybody else would X". Are you going to repeat this line of thought in defense of everyone I find suspicious?

You think she's lying about what role she had?  That is somewhere between 98% and 190% unlikely.

It's called suspicion. The only way I could've gotten to your 98% or 190% confidence would've been if there was someone here who could vouched for her roleclaim. Kernel deflated that possibility though.

I'm not sure what makes you think a scum would come forward saying they were vanilized with no prompting

There's no real risk at this point. We all know there was a Vanilla-izer. Claiming you were vanilla-ized and giving away nothing else isn't too damaging no matter what your alignment or role is.

then pick a random role and hope nobody else had it.  What scum would do that instead of say, not claiming anything?

Going to invoke WIFOM on this one. But the thing is she picked one of the pretty terrible roles. It's an active role vs a passive role, and it's a pretty funny one, points for that, but objectively it's pretty bad for the town. Based on the discard list, who could've had Nymphomaniac as one of their choices? Based on my ordering of all the roles by utility, it would've been (coincidentally) me or you. Insert your "Just because you would X, doesn't mean everybody else would X" argument here.

Moving on, I've thought of one pretty important thing concerning raerae's role, in support of it. I'm going to assume no one here knew that the Numphomaniac's chosen Lover wouldn't know they were a Lover. With that in mind, imagine that raerae was scum. There was ample time for one of her faction members to come forward and claim they were her Lover. With no coordination during the day, I could imagine one of them coming forward, and then finding themselves in a trap when Kernel gave this response:

Would the Town Nymphomaniac’s target know they’ve fallen in love?

No

That didn't happen, so maybe points in raerae's favor. There's still a bunch of ways it wouldn't have happened at all, like if none of them checked the thread or they did in fact did know all this stuff or they were waiting for Kernel's response to do anything at all. But it might be something.

I can get aboard with this. vote: brightgalrs

Skipped this RL yesterday. This was opportunistic.

Brighty says he smells.

Like lavender of course.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space, what the heck!

No, sorry still at 8 for Faust.

Vote: faust

I mean, you made exactly the same mistake I did.. you just did it while under a lot less time pressure to be asleep :-P

Mix you scared me to death, thought you mistakenly hammered. Should be at 7 now with Joseph's unvote.

-- that and Joseph's unvote were the things that made me drop a vote, because voting in that situation seemed better than going to bed again without doing something. I definitely did not intend for it to be a hammer.

[SpaceAnemone]

Anyway, now M125 is over, I can at least focus all my free mafia-playing time onto this game. I really shouldn't have signed up for a second game when there was already one on the go, but I really wasn't anticipating that this one was going to be a serious thing!

On that note, Vote: Raerae for being super-townie scum :-)

[Brightgalrs]

I mean, you made exactly the same mistake I did.. you just did it while under a lot less time pressure to be asleep :-P

True. And you did indeed post at 8:20pm, about when you would go to bed going by your profile's statistics. I feel a bit creepy saying that.

-- that and Joseph's unvote were the things that made me drop a vote, because voting in that situation seemed better than going to bed again without doing something. I definitely did not intend for it to be a hammer.

Really my suspicion came from the quote you posted in your hammer post:

What I find funny is that none of you questioned the fact that a player who discarded an IC role is somehow still alive and apparently hasn't done anything useful last night.

It made it seem like you read the thread quite well, up to where I gave the right vote tally and beyond. Now I see that it actually comes from a few posts before. It's plausible you read faust's post, then up to my initial miscounted tally, and then decided to post at that point.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 3.2

SpaceAnemone (1): DatSwan
LaLight (1): Joseph2302
Brightgalrs (2): raerae, LaLight
EFHW (1): mail-mi
pubby (1): WestCoastDidds
raerae (1): SpaceAnemone

Not Voting (7): pubby, Brightgalrs, Uncleeurope, Galzria, shraeye, EFHW, Eevee

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day Three begins now and ends at 6:00 UTC 11/29/2019.

[EFHW]

vote: pubby

[Brightgalrs]

Yeah, I dunno.
Vote: LaLight for opportunistic voting.