Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: werothegreat on November 12, 2015, 10:22:11 pm
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As you may or may not know, over the past few months I've scanned (or rescanned) almost every single Dominion card to get a nice, high-quality image for the wiki, which in turn comes over to the forums (such as on QVist's rankings). And while I've been striving for high resolution and high quality, physically scanning the cards will simply never be perfect. The cards will always be slightly misaligned from the vertical, and the physical copies even vary in how they color their borders, which is particularly noticeable on Actions, especially with the Promos. On top of that, no matter how I fiddle with the color levels, some card art will always be too dark or too washed out, so that something visible to the eye will not come out in the scan.
On the other hand, taking the digital card representations from Dominion Online has none of these problems. They are guaranteed to be perfectly aligned, to have card art exactly as the artist intended, and to have borders that are all completely consistent with one another. However, it does have its own drawbacks, which is why I'm posting this poll, to get the community's opinion. The digital cards do not have a copyright date or an artist attribution - this is the main thing. In addition, they will not have as high a resolution as any physical scan. Also, they definitely look like they've come off of a computer, rather than being a physical card. That's not to say they look bad, just different. Finally, there is a lot of resentment toward MF right now, and switching over completely to digital cards without warning (Surprise!) might piss some people off, as they might read it as encroachment on their I dunno, something.
Anyway, thought I'd ask. Please let me know.
As a comparison, here is Soothsayer as a physical scan, and as a digital version:
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/0/01/Soothsayer.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/1TOyjEV.jpg)
P.S. It's far easier for me to just rip these pictures off of Dominion Online than it is for me to scan, clean up, de-moire, and adjust the color levels of physical cards.
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I prefer the digital art as the primary art, but it's probably OK to leave the hi-res scans as extras. Wikis allow for that, I think?
You could adjust the digital art to be richer in colour (even a quick auto-levels would be decent, probably), and manually add in the artist and copyright text at the bottom without too much difficulty. I prefer the higher consistency between cards.
You are a wiki champion, wero.
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I'd prefer the digital versions.
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Fun with color balancing:
(http://i.imgur.com/sXdVyG1.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/Z7dl1sQ.jpg)
On a more serious note, there does not seem to be a way to make the colors of the digital version any richer.
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On a more serious note, there does not seem to be a way to make the colors of the digital version any richer.
Just increase the Saturation slightly. In Photoshop, Ctrl+U brings up Hue/Saturation and then +20 or +30 is pretty good for Soothsayer.
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On a more serious note, there does not seem to be a way to make the colors of the digital version any richer.
Just increase the Saturation slightly. In Photoshop, Ctrl+U brings up Hue/Saturation and then +20 or +30 is pretty good for Soothsayer.
At +50 Saturation:
(http://i.imgur.com/CG3oA05.jpg)
By the way, should I make this my profile picture?
(http://i.imgur.com/T1E4few.png)
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The digital one is blurry.
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I voted physical scan. I feel like "Dominion", to me, is primarily a physical game, and so the reference for that game should represent the "main" game as closely as possible.
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That high saturation physical scan looks really good.
However, I'm not picky. The digital is just fine. I'd say go for the one that doesn't take up your time.
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There are two options that can be taken if we want both versions on the page:
1) Throw it in the Trivia section - makes the section a little busier, but there's room on the left side
2) Throw it in the Infobox - would require rewriting the infobox code a little, makes the infobox longer.
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Speaking as a (semi-)former digital artist myself, I'd prefer the original version to be used in this situation - i.e. the digital one - but I would at the very least want attribution information to mbe maintained. Can you put the attribution information in the text of the page somewhere?
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Speaking as a (semi-)former digital artist myself, I'd prefer the original version to be used in this situation - i.e. the digital one - but I would at the very least want attribution information to mbe maintained. Can you put the attribution information in the text of the page somewhere?
The illustrator is attributed in the Infobox already. The copyright is not there, but I don't really see that as an issue.
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I reset the poll with more options, since it seemed pretty evenly split between digital and physical.
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It's hard to say which one I prefer just looking at one card example that happens to be one of the darker coloured ones. Can you show a couple more examples of cards with different colour mixes? Say, Mountebank, Border Village, Inn, or Wharf?
I'm leaning a bit towards the digital version. If I'm not mistaken, the artist information for each card is on the wiki pages for each card.
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I find the physical version highly useful for seeing how the text on each card is laid out (for reference when making fan cards, etc.). The digital versions all have different-sized text.
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It's hard to say which one I prefer just looking at one card example that happens to be one of the darker coloured ones. Can you show a couple more examples of cards with different colour mixes? Say, Mountebank, Border Village, Inn, or Wharf?
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/89/Mountebank.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/aCDWDTs.jpg)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/d/dd/Border_Village.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/lUzrif0.jpg)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/1/1f/Inn.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/uJ8Xm38.jpg)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/c/cc/Wharf.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/N9ksC1i.jpg)
I find the physical version highly useful for seeing how the text on each card is laid out (for reference when making fan cards, etc.). The digital versions all have different-sized text.
As you can see, MF's card versions are fairly close to the physical in terms of layout. And at any rate, that's why I put up options to have both on the page. :)
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And at any rate, that's why I put up options to have both on the page. :)
But if the point is to make it easier/faster for you, isn't having both the worst option?
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And at any rate, that's why I put up options to have both on the page. :)
But if the point is to make it easier/faster for you, isn't having both the worst option?
The main point, for me, is consistency - both of color and of quality. I'm halfway through scanning in the Base Set cards, so it being easier/faster isn't really a problem (I'm not going to bother rescanning Cornucopia, they're fine enough). But ripping cards from DO is a hell of a lot easier than scanning in new ones, so it wouldn't really take all that long to get them all.
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The digital images pop out less, but maybe that's a good thing when it comes to seeing them mixed with text. I think the lower resolution can be worth the consistency, plus the text on the digital ones is bigger and therefore easier to read.
I voted digital in the infobox with physical in the trivia. It would be a shame to have the pretty scans we have so far go to waste.
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I thought wikis had the option of uploading multiple versions of a single image. It would usually be used for differently sized images but could be used to have physical and digital as versions of the same image. Make one the default that's displayed and the other one a version that's only accessible by clicking through the image.
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I find the physical version highly useful for seeing how the text on each card is laid out (for reference when making fan cards, etc.). The digital versions all have different-sized text.
Although I didn't notice this until now, now that I do notice it, I really dislike the digital version. It's not just slightly different-sized text, it causes line to break in different places, etc. To this means that what you are seeing simply doesn't look the same as the physical card.
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I thought wikis had the option of uploading multiple versions of a single image. It would usually be used for differently sized images but could be used to have physical and digital as versions of the same image. Make one the default that's displayed and the other one a version that's only accessible by clicking through the image.
Yeah, and almost every card now has several different versions because of all the uploads I've done. Doing it that way would not be useful.
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I find the physical version highly useful for seeing how the text on each card is laid out (for reference when making fan cards, etc.). The digital versions all have different-sized text.
Although I didn't notice this until now, now that I do notice it, I really dislike the digital version. It's not just slightly different-sized text, it causes line to break in different places, etc. To this means that what you are seeing simply doesn't look the same as the physical card.
I like the way it breaks in the digital version more, actually.
@wero, why wouldn't it be useful? You could probably remove the unuseful versions, like any low-res scans.
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@wero, why wouldn't it be useful? You could probably remove the unuseful versions, like any low-res scans.
That's either not possible, or I don't have the permission to do that sort of thing.
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@wero, why wouldn't it be useful? You could probably remove the unuseful versions, like any low-res scans.
That's either not possible, or I don't have the permission to do that sort of thing.
It must be possible. Who would have permission? theory?
Even so, it would still be useful unless there are a dozen extra versions there already.
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@wero, why wouldn't it be useful? You could probably remove the unuseful versions, like any low-res scans.
That's either not possible, or I don't have the permission to do that sort of thing.
It must be possible. Who would have permission? theory?
No idea. Maybe QVist.
Even so, it would still be useful unless there are a dozen extra versions there already.
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Coin_of_the_Realm.jpg
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You are a wiki monster, wero. Why so many uploads? :P
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You are a wiki monster, wero. Why so many uploads? :P
IT WASN'T EXACTLY PERFECT
And it still isn't. :'(
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Well you could have decided that before uploading!
Anyway, I vote to have both but I don't really have a preference of what goes where. Put one in the info box (both would be cluttered, probably) and the other in its own section that isn't Trivia, because this isn't Trivia.
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@wero, why wouldn't it be useful? You could probably remove the unuseful versions, like any low-res scans.
That's either not possible, or I don't have the permission to do that sort of thing.
It must be possible. Who would have permission? theory?
No idea. Maybe QVist.
Even so, it would still be useful unless there are a dozen extra versions there already.
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Coin_of_the_Realm.jpg
I can delete old file versions, can't you as well? In the file history, there is left of the versions the revert link and the delete link.
I see that you used the revert link a couple of times, so you should have the option to delete a version as well, I assume.
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@wero, why wouldn't it be useful? You could probably remove the unuseful versions, like any low-res scans.
That's either not possible, or I don't have the permission to do that sort of thing.
It must be possible. Who would have permission? theory?
No idea. Maybe QVist.
Even so, it would still be useful unless there are a dozen extra versions there already.
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:Coin_of_the_Realm.jpg
I can delete old file versions, can't you as well? In the file history, there is left of the versions the revert link and the delete link.
I see that you used the revert link a couple of times, so you should have the option to delete a version as well, I assume.
I only have the revert link. I do not have admin privileges.
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By the way, if there isn't a clear majority winner in the poll by midnight tonight (EST), I'm going to reset it, removing the option with the fewest votes. If only there were a way to put up a poll with instant runoff...
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By the way, if there isn't a clear majority winner in the poll by midnight tonight (EST), I'm going to reset it, removing the option with the fewest votes. If only there were a way to put up a poll with instant runoff...
You could also infer a bit based on the votes. For example, there are 7 votes for physical, 2 for digital only, 9 for both (just disagreeing on where they should go). It seems like both would be the best of both worlds.
From this, I think the best option would be to keep the physical scan at the top in the info box, but make the digital version available somewhere else. Maybe in the Trivia section, or a special section, or even just a gallery on a separate page.
But that's only if you're feeling up to the task of making all those composites.
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Okay, poll has been reset, the "both in infobox" has been removed. At the moment, I'm leaning toward eHalcyon's suggestion of scan in the box, and digital in trivia, but let's see how the poll goes now.
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And with the basic cards re-scanned, I am completely done scanning in things (at least, until Donald X. releases another expansion). I might fiddle with Cornucopia's color levels at some point, but I'm not re-scanning them.
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Okay, it's pretty clear that people want the physical scan in the infobox.
Here's an idea: have a new subsection, "Alternate cards" or something, that has both the digital version as well as any other language versions that are available on the interwebs, or that our non-Anglophone folk feel up to uploading. I know a few of the Dutch versions are already on there.