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[silverspawn]

Ok that took a bit longer than expected. Sorry @debate, other reads have to wait, gotta do stuff.

[Uncleeurope]

Here's something I want to respond to.  There ARE townreads, plus with his level of engagement, isn't the more towny thing to lean towards suspicion??  At least that's my instinct; read through, find suspicious stuff.

This reasoning seems to be completely at odds with your reasons to scumread Eddie.

It's mail-mi pulling together a reads-list.  Uncle's case was me noticing sporadic posts all with the same theme
"I'm worried about X"

followed 100 posts later with "I'm worried about Y".  No apparent followup, just scattershots of suspicion.

I don't like writing summary posts, I pop in and state what I think is weird or worth noticing and then I move on to the next thing. This is how I play.

And regarding no followup, I have no idea what you. mean, here. I have been continuing my suspicion on all people I have mentioned previously, and when that changes I try to mention it when I find that information relevant to the current proceedings. If you need to read my previous games to get this I would strongly recommend it. I say what I feel and that's just it. (Even if it looks scummy to people).

PPE: 3

[silverspawn]

Oh right, I saved these three posts during the reread which struck me as towny. I think they were all in pretty quick succession.

I am not against voting for LL, he is in a similar place to some of my other picks, it is a lot harder to build cases against “Uber-null” and a lot of the time the “Uber-nulls” are the ones to be wary of.

Is there more to the LL case other than being generally unhelpful? I mean it’s okay if there isn’t, I jut am wondering what separates LL from, say, Joseph or EFHW?

Would you say that LL has been less helpful than the rest of the non-talkers? (Of course I had you in that group until your recent surge in activity, so maybe you deserve to still be in that group).

(not feeling pressure to have strong reasons)

I would say that raerae seems way too aggressive and desperate to be scum, maybe? It really comes down to a gut feeling for me based on rereading her, so I don’t know how to verbalize it as well, but I think she just feels like a town looking for scum to me, just in her own way that people disagree with. Probably.

And shraeye just seems good to me... everyone time I reread the guy I just see town.

Yeah, the reasoning is weak, sorry for that. I will try rereading them both again before death-time to try and formulate something more substantial.

And I also might be wrong, but I don’t think so.


Oh, and I should be ready for deadline time.

(before we knew shraey was a mson, I believe. Not that towny, but it was noticeable. Also that he scumread mail-mi and ariship. Maybe he just has really good reads?)

I. Refuse. To. Vote. For. Raerae. Today.


Honestly the way people are voting I am only really inclined to vote for LL out of the current wagons. (Though if we got a Swan thing going I could to that.)

In an absolute emergency I would prefer a MiX death to nothing.

PPE a bunch

(Mostly an anti-partner tell)

[EFHW]

@silver, who do you suspect other than ari? Sorry if you already said and I missed it.

[Uncleeurope]

Ok so the only reason I could make for Eddie being scum is that he's flying under the radar a bit much. Which is... a pretty good reason, actually, generally speaking. but in his case it strikes me more as more of a personality thing.

@Eddie how many games did you play before? I think I recall that you were there in my game before this one (where you got your nickname), so you're not super new, right? If you still have it in memory, which aligments  did you play as?

I have only been in two games on here so far, actually. Both as town.

[raerae]

@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.

Won't vote Eddie.

Why?

I can explain if I absolutely have to, but would prefer not to just yet.

If I said I was certain, CERTAIN, shraeye was scum and then said my preferred lynch was faust, would you find me scummy for that?

Bump for EFHW. Can you answer this one for me, please?  Obviously names are hypothetical.

[EFHW]

@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.

Won't vote Eddie.

Why?

I can explain if I absolutely have to, but would prefer not to just yet.

If I said I was certain, CERTAIN, shraeye was scum and then said my preferred lynch was faust, would you find me scummy for that?

Bump for EFHW. Can you answer this one for me, please?  Obviously names are hypothetical.

Sorry, missed that. Yes I would.  But I didn't say anything like that about mail-mi.

[Joseph2302]

Catching up now

I don't like shraeye telling us not to vote mail-mi, I hope you're right because otherwise saying it was a terrible idea

I won't vote mail-mi today

[Uncleeurope]

Catching up now

I don't like shraeye telling us not to vote mail-mi, I hope you're right because otherwise saying it was a terrible idea

I won't vote mail-mi today

Sheep.

I dislike being told who to vote for. Especially by someone who is standing in the same information that I am. (Less if you count me knowing he is town).

[Joseph2302]

Catching up now

I don't like shraeye telling us not to vote mail-mi, I hope you're right because otherwise saying it was a terrible idea

I won't vote mail-mi today

Sheep.

I dislike being told who to vote for. Especially by someone who is standing in the same information that I am. (Less if you count me knowing he is town).

Actually if you're town you know that and he doesn't

And I'm willing to trust that as they're sure, they've got reason for it.

[Uncleeurope]

Catching up now

I don't like shraeye telling us not to vote mail-mi, I hope you're right because otherwise saying it was a terrible idea

I won't vote mail-mi today

Sheep.

I dislike being told who to vote for. Especially by someone who is standing in the same information that I am. (Less if you count me knowing he is town).

Actually if you're town you know that and he doesn't

And I'm willing to trust that as they're sure, they've got reason for it.

1. That’s the entire point of me saying I know more than him.

2. That may as well be the dictionary definition for sheeping.

[mail-mi]

#pledgenomail-mi

imma go look at that case and see what I can say.

[shraeye]

One reason sheeting is so suspicious, is that its pretty disingenuous to copy somebody if you aren't 100% sure they're town. 

The good news is that, out of all the opinions you're hearing right now, you know mine are 100% honest.

[shraeye]

Yeah, *sheeping

[Uncleeurope]

That makes it easy to sheep incorrect reads by town players.

[mail-mi]

So, there is not too much time left to the deadline, and this is going nowhere, and shraeye does not seem in any big hurry to share his current reads, so let me tell everyone why you should vote for mail-mi.

current reads:

Debatepro - new, null
faust - slight scum rn
mail-mi - the IC that's not dead
silverspawn - is silverspawn, null
Uncleeurope - newbie, willing to give a D1 pass, null otherwise.
DatSwan - slightly scummy
MiX - towny
LaLight - slightly scummy
Joseph2302 - slightly scummy
arishipshape - towny
shraeye - null
EFHW - null-to-scum
raerae - slight scum

First reads list is without townreads. Except for newbies. Which is the set of players scum least wants to mislynch. Anyway this has too many scumreads.

I don't think there is a problem with too many scumreads. On one hand, yes there are only X scum, but on the other, I (nor any other town member) don't know who those scum are. So I have a few people (which is probably more than X) that I think might be scum.

at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon

Any particular reason?

Dunno, I like what everyone else has been saying. It's not strong nor solid by any means. Willing to change for something better.

The vote on raerae turns out to be only sheeping, which as EFHW I think pointed out is in character for scum!mail-mi.

It is also in character for town!mail-mi.

I'll sheep EFHW on that.

vote: lalight

Followed by more sheeping.

See the above

i think I know mail-mi better than sheeping EFHW into voting me

vote: mail-mi

also, old!highschool!mail-mi was very sheepish as town, which got me mislynched several times. New!college!mail-mi tries to be less sheepy and provide more content, but new!college!extremelybusy!mail-mi is using his old ways.

This looks like mail-mi has already thought of a narrative to explain his sheeping, which does not make it look better.

It's not a narrative,

Okay, big one here:

Vote Count 1.11
"What each individual wills is obstructed by everyone else, and what emerges is something that no one willed." — Friedrich Engels

MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae
raerae (3): Joseph2302, DatSwan, faust
mail-mi (3): LaLight, silverspawn, MiX
LaLight (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): Uncleeurope

Not Voting (1): mail-mi

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm. That's in about 6 hours.

This is only hours before the deadline. mail-mi seems definitely lynchable. But, two of the people on him are now confirmed town. Scum seems to be avoiding that wagon.

that is a point I cannot deny, there were some town on my wagon. They were wrong, but they were town.

MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae
raerae (3): Joseph2302, DatSwan, faust
mail-mi (3): LaLight, silverspawn, MiX
LaLight (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): Uncleeurope

These are the current wagons, with the exception of EFHW being on me. I don't like MiX or raerae particularly right now, and the only other option is DatSwan who has 1 vote on him and I don't even remember him very much in this game.

hm.

It is a classic scum response to a close-to-deadline wagon on them to be hesitant to hop on the opposing wagons.

At this point in the game I didn't have much info on my side. It's really hard for me to get into a game I'm not in from the beginning. That's always been the case for me. So that's a factor that's in play as well, along with my business. And then there was a wagon on me, and I didn't particularly like at the time the wagons on other players. So I was in bind on who to vote for.

This is then followed by a major reread of MiX that concludes in this:

i'm on MiX's post #251 and I've got to go to class, but my townread on him has significantly diminished due to this more focused reread of him. for now I will vote: MiX and finish my reread later if I can

So his one townread of D1 suddenly flipped conveniently to free him to vote just before the deadline? I don't buy it. mail-mi just tries to mask a self-preservation vote as something else.

It was in part self preservation, yes. However in my reread I did see him a scummier. That was not a lie.

Okay, to D2 now. First thing to note is his insistence to see a Mason claim:

so who is LL's partner?

it would be nice to have an IC

I think that everyone basically already knows it's shraeye, but scum has an incentive to look like they did not consider this at night.

I hadn't considered it at all. I missed the breadcrums, and even though most knew it was shraeye I would have liked to know for certain. However then someone pointed out that the mason would know best when to claim so I stopped.

Also I don't have a scum read on you anymore. You seem like your town self.

Starts townreading raerae when it becomes apparent that the IC does so.

sure did

...and right after I posted that my mom called me in for dinner.

MiX (7): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (1): Arishipshape

So here's the wagons with all the people I know are town. I don't think it's raerae, so I'm looking for at least 1 scum in {Debatepro, EFHW, faust}. I had a slight scumread on faust during my inital catch up, and I think I'm willing to go back to that. I have a paper to write tonight so I can't go do a detailed reread, but I am going to go read through day 2 again. I would be comfortable lynching/voting for all 3 of them, at this point.

This post is off. He looks at the vote count and concludes that it makes me scummy, but the only reason I was on MiX here was to get a lynch through. mail-mi even demanded that I vote for MiX just before the Day ended...

I didn't demand that you specifically vote for MiX, just that people should to get a lynch through.

Alright so here is a current reads list following my read:

Scum:
faust
Debatepro
ariship

Slight scum:
Datswan
EFHW

Null:
Joseph
Eddie

Slight town:
raerae
silverspawn

Conf!town:
shraeye
mail-mi

As pointed out, this reads list is scummy. First of course any reads list is scummy, but listing all current wagons as scum and then voting for a player who does not have a wagon on them is just very convenient.

any reads list is scummy?! that's new. Again, I wasn't following votes at all, only debate. And the debate seemed to be pointing toward those I had in my scumread list.

Ah, I figured out how to explain myself! Your posts are very reactionary, and it doesn't seem like you have done a lot of really proactive things this game. That's different than the town!faust I remember.

Let's test that theory! Just looking at D2.

you do have a good point sir. I suppose I'm letting a little bit of bias into my reads as well. I'm gonna vote: debatepro for now then.

And when I challenge this, he back away and votes... the other scumread with no wagon.

yep I did that

Vote: mail-mi

You don't want to do that.

And this is off. It is not how town reacts to one of their scumreads voting for them. mail-mi is perfectly well aware of the fact that I am town here.

no i am not. see explanation already given.

[Swowl]

I don't quite get the reluctance to vote for mail-mi. I certainly get that university can be a lot of work, but no-one is arguing that we should lynch mail-mi for lack of activity. The case didn't even mention that.

It's just not happening today.  Go crazy tomorrow when I'm dead. Whatever you want.  But I officially redirect this discussion

*redirection intensifies*

*redirection sound comes to a screeching halt*

why why WHY? Lynching a scum TODAY is pretty important. I think ari and mail-mi have significantly better chances of being scum than DatSwan, and far more than EFHW. I'm not just going to go along with you and take mail-mi off the table when the reason doesn't seem to make any sense and isn't even about his alignment.

DS specifically said he would lynch me for information.  That seems pretty damn scummy to me considering we've got three town dead and presumably will have another after tonight.  The time for lynching for info has passed, don't you think?

I said you were the defn of my “lynch for info” lynch. I never have pushed a vote on you today nor did i try to start your wagon. I simply pointed out reads.

[mail-mi]

Give me until after church and I can explain exactly what is going on.

Please don't.

uh ok. But I should not be lynched.

If you're responding to a specific case then go ahead but just please don't post an enormous diatribe about how town you are. It doesn't convince anybody and only succeeds in cluttering the thread. Peeps be trying to reread and all.

I disagree. If mail-mi can explain why he is town then I want to hear it.

I'll sum up a couple reasons here:

- A lot of my disconnectedness can be explained because I am busy.
- It's hard for me to get into a game that I'm not in from the start.
- I like being scum more than I like being town. If I was scum this game I would be more involved. As it is, I am town, and so i am less inclined to be involved.

[Swowl]

I am very surprised by the amount of forced skum points i am being assigned by certain players. I obviously have faith in my reads but the interpretation said cases is what is skummy. People are twisting my words and i am starting to think it is not accidental -
I am at my meet for another few hours so i will expand on that this evening.

Also side note - someone read a town game of mine (any of them) - i never make good cases (self burn)

[mail-mi]

I currently disagree with some of shraeye's reads. I think debatepro is an excellent lynch for today. I would move datswan up into the lynch pool, but he's a lower priority.

[Uncleeurope]

I am very surprised by the amount of forced skum points i am being assigned by certain players. I obviously have faith in my reads but the interpretation said cases is what is skummy. People are twisting my words and i am starting to think it is not accidental -
I am at my meet for another few hours so i will expand on that this evening.

Also side note - someone read a town game of mine (any of them) - i never make good cases (self burn)

You made good cases in your game(s?) with me.

[mail-mi]

What are the reasons that Eddie is scummy? That he's throwing around suspicion? That doesn't seem super scummy to me.

Is there more of a case?

[raerae]

@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.

Won't vote Eddie.

Why?

I can explain if I absolutely have to, but would prefer not to just yet.

If I said I was certain, CERTAIN, shraeye was scum and then said my preferred lynch was faust, would you find me scummy for that?

Bump for EFHW. Can you answer this one for me, please?  Obviously names are hypothetical.

Sorry, missed that. Yes I would.  But I didn't say anything like that about mail-mi.

You didn't buy Uncle did. Can we put him back on the table now?

[shraeye]

I currently disagree with some of shraeye's reads. I think debatepro is an excellent lynch for today. I would move datswan up into the lynch pool, but he's a lower priority.

DatSwan is in the lynch pool.

[Uncleeurope]

@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.

Won't vote Eddie.

Why?

I can explain if I absolutely have to, but would prefer not to just yet.

If I said I was certain, CERTAIN, shraeye was scum and then said my preferred lynch was faust, would you find me scummy for that?

Bump for EFHW. Can you answer this one for me, please?  Obviously names are hypothetical.

Sorry, missed that. Yes I would.  But I didn't say anything like that about mail-mi.

You didn't buy Uncle did. Can we put him back on the table now?

Wait a second, what?

When?