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[mail-mi]

Vote: mail-mi

You don't want to do that.

This post feels off to me. Like, very off.

why? I am town, faust doesn't and shouldn't want to vote for me. It was also meant to be read in a moderately sarcastic tone.

So suddenly you now think I am town?

No, though my scumread on you has lessened. But I know I am town, and if you are town, you shouldn't be voting for me

But if I am scum and you are town, then wouldn't it be good for me to vote for you? Yet you say I shouldn't want to vote for you as if it is a given that I am town. This indicates that you actually know my alignment.

Darn, I should have realized I need to be overabundantly clear with my moderately sarcastic posts. Allow me to clarify:

If you are town, you don't want to do that.

[Swowl]

Shraeye - why do you think LL was killed?

[silverspawn]

But silver did say that he was trying to avoid being as emotional this game.  So we agreed taht something seemed different, but weren't very sure if it was a conscious evolution of playstyle, or indicative of alignment.

I don't think that has anything to do with activity. The two main reasons for lower activity were a) an exam last Thursday and b) just less stuff that I felt inclined to comment on

It's a bit sobering that my biggest scumread is your biggest townread and your biggest scumread is one of my townreads. I felt quite optimistic about getting this ari lynch to happen until now. Not sure who else to focus on now. The only player in your scum list I feel inclined to lynch is mail-mi. He's mildly scummy and also just not very present. Certainly no reason to believe he's town.

[silverspawn]

Vote: mail-mi

You don't want to do that.

This post feels off to me. Like, very off.

have to echo mail-mi here: why? What's off about that?

[shraeye]

Shraeye - why do you think LL was killed?

Because he was the only claimed PR.  No need to guess that faust was right about me.  Nothing too much to read into that

[raerae]

So maybe I'm reading this wrong but aren't you calling EFHW scummy for the same things that's getting Joseph a nullpass?

Huh? Most definitely not.  Are those the two people you meant?  Huh?

I guess it's the "posting but not active" part that rang similar for me.

[shraeye]

There's a noticable difference in activity
EFHW: ~95 posts
Joseph: ~60 posts

Hence EFHW being "active but not posting".  Also, null is not nullpass.

[shraeye]

Right.  Words the and order in oops wrong

[EFHW]

There's a noticable difference in activity
EFHW: ~95 posts
Joseph: ~60 posts

Hence EFHW being "active but not posting".  Also, null is not nullpass.

Somehow I'm not getting credit for my rereads on MiX, raerae, Lalight, and DatSwan. Those were quite time consuming.

[Debatepro]

I don't think that has anything to do with activity. The two main reasons for lower activity were a) an exam last Thursday and b) just less stuff that I felt inclined to comment on. It's a bit sobering that my biggest scumread is your biggest townread and your biggest scumread is one of my townreads. I felt quite optimistic about getting this ari lynch to happen until now.

@ss - Just did a quick skim and I don't see any explicate reads from you about anyone but MiX and Ari in quite some time. You are well regarded player who's analysis could be helpful to town, and you have more than one town read above, can you give us some insight into your reads on everyone? 

[EFHW]

I'm waiting to hear Shraeye's Day 2 comments before responding further to his post.

[EFHW]

I have a ton of work this weekend, but I will try to reread silver by Sunday evening.

[shraeye]

I'm waiting to hear Shraeye's Day 2 comments before responding further to his post.

Don't wait

[EFHW]

I'm waiting to hear Shraeye's Day 2 comments before responding further to his post.

Don't wait

Ok, I disagree with it, and feel it doesn't apply to me any more than other people who were off the main wagons. I don't feel like I was passive or inactive at EOD, but you have only my word that my motives were and are pure. I was a little slow to get into the game, and haven't successfully found scumreads, but that's not for lack of trying. I seem to spend most of my time trying to prevent mislynches instead. Your description feels like a gut memory from impressions rather than a reread, but I'm pretty sure ashersky thinks that's my scumtell, so I probably shouldn't say that. But it's what I think.

[arishipshape]

Really sorry I disappeared for so long. I had last minute ACT prep and the ACT today going on. I meant to tell you guys earlier. I have no idea what occurred in my absence and will read and respond to everything tonight.

[Swowl]

I have a meet this weekend so i will be doing posting in the evenings. Reading along though.

[silverspawn]

I don't think that has anything to do with activity. The two main reasons for lower activity were a) an exam last Thursday and b) just less stuff that I felt inclined to comment on. It's a bit sobering that my biggest scumread is your biggest townread and your biggest scumread is one of my townreads. I felt quite optimistic about getting this ari lynch to happen until now.

@ss - Just did a quick skim and I don't see any explicate reads from you about anyone but MiX and Ari in quite some time. You are well regarded player who's analysis could be helpful to town, and you have more than one town read above, can you give us some insight into your reads on everyone? 

I'll get to this tomorrow.

[arishipshape]

I read everything, and I think we got some good info, I don't think any conclusive evidence has changed in the past IRL day. Im still here if anyone wants to question me, and I will be more proactive starting monday

[Joseph2302]

It's 5am here and I'm just going to bed. Will try and contribute tomorrow evening

[faust]

So, there is not too much time left to the deadline, and this is going nowhere, and shraeye does not seem in any big hurry to share his current reads, so let me tell everyone why you should vote for mail-mi.

current reads:

Debatepro - new, null
faust - slight scum rn
mail-mi - the IC that's not dead
silverspawn - is silverspawn, null
Uncleeurope - newbie, willing to give a D1 pass, null otherwise.
DatSwan - slightly scummy
MiX - towny
LaLight - slightly scummy
Joseph2302 - slightly scummy
arishipshape - towny
shraeye - null
EFHW - null-to-scum
raerae - slight scum

First reads list is without townreads. Except for newbies. Which is the set of players scum least wants to mislynch. Anyway this has too many scumreads.

at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon

Any particular reason?

Dunno, I like what everyone else has been saying. It's not strong nor solid by any means. Willing to change for something better.

The vote on raerae turns out to be only sheeping, which as EFHW I think pointed out is in character for scum!mail-mi.

I'll sheep EFHW on that.

vote: lalight

Followed by more sheeping.

i think I know mail-mi better than sheeping EFHW into voting me

vote: mail-mi

also, old!highschool!mail-mi was very sheepish as town, which got me mislynched several times. New!college!mail-mi tries to be less sheepy and provide more content, but new!college!extremelybusy!mail-mi is using his old ways.

This looks like mail-mi has already thought of a narrative to explain his sheeping, which does not make it look better.

Okay, big one here:

Vote Count 1.11
"What each individual wills is obstructed by everyone else, and what emerges is something that no one willed." — Friedrich Engels

MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae
raerae (3): Joseph2302, DatSwan, faust
mail-mi (3): LaLight, silverspawn, MiX
LaLight (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): Uncleeurope

Not Voting (1): mail-mi

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm. That's in about 6 hours.

This is only hours before the deadline. mail-mi seems definitely lynchable. But, two of the people on him are now confirmed town. Scum seems to be avoiding that wagon.

MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae
raerae (3): Joseph2302, DatSwan, faust
mail-mi (3): LaLight, silverspawn, MiX
LaLight (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): Uncleeurope

These are the current wagons, with the exception of EFHW being on me. I don't like MiX or raerae particularly right now, and the only other option is DatSwan who has 1 vote on him and I don't even remember him very much in this game.

hm.

It is a classic scum response to a close-to-deadline wagon on them to be hesitant to hop on the opposing wagons.

This is then followed by a major reread of MiX that concludes in this:

i'm on MiX's post #251 and I've got to go to class, but my townread on him has significantly diminished due to this more focused reread of him. for now I will vote: MiX and finish my reread later if I can

So his one townread of D1 suddenly flipped conveniently to free him to vote just before the deadline? I don't buy it. mail-mi just tries to mask a self-preservation vote as something else.

Okay, to D2 now. First thing to note is his insistence to see a Mason claim:

so who is LL's partner?

it would be nice to have an IC

I think that everyone basically already knows it's shraeye, but scum has an incentive to look like they did not consider this at night.

Also I don't have a scum read on you anymore. You seem like your town self.

Starts townreading raerae when it becomes apparent that the IC does so.

...and right after I posted that my mom called me in for dinner.

MiX (7): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (1): Arishipshape

So here's the wagons with all the people I know are town. I don't think it's raerae, so I'm looking for at least 1 scum in {Debatepro, EFHW, faust}. I had a slight scumread on faust during my inital catch up, and I think I'm willing to go back to that. I have a paper to write tonight so I can't go do a detailed reread, but I am going to go read through day 2 again. I would be comfortable lynching/voting for all 3 of them, at this point.

This post is off. He looks at the vote count and concludes that it makes me scummy, but the only reason I was on MiX here was to get a lynch through. mail-mi even demanded that I vote for MiX just before the Day ended...

Alright so here is a current reads list following my read:

Scum:
faust
Debatepro
ariship

Slight scum:
Datswan
EFHW

Null:
Joseph
Eddie

Slight town:
raerae
silverspawn

Conf!town:
shraeye
mail-mi

As pointed out, this reads list is scummy. First of course any reads list is scummy, but listing all current wagons as scum and then voting for a player who does not have a wagon on them is just very convenient.

Ah, I figured out how to explain myself! Your posts are very reactionary, and it doesn't seem like you have done a lot of really proactive things this game. That's different than the town!faust I remember.

Let's test that theory! Just looking at D2.

you do have a good point sir. I suppose I'm letting a little bit of bias into my reads as well. I'm gonna vote: debatepro for now then.

And when I challenge this, he back away and votes... the other scumread with no wagon.

Vote: mail-mi

You don't want to do that.

And this is off. It is not how town reacts to one of their scumreads voting for them. mail-mi is perfectly well aware of the fact that I am town here.

[Swowl]

Scum-side
EFHW: Our biggest scumread; we are both in total agreement. I think EFHW is one of the biggest "posting but not active" players; what I do see seems very "leaf on the wind."  A bit of that is overall activity, but also a bit more about the final RL days of Day1.
From my perspective, the most votes were happening at the end of Day1 on MiX, LaLight, shraeye, raerae, and mail-mi.  Mail-mi's never really felt like "for scumminess" but more for "he's a bit lurker-ish".  So out of the 4 most serious wagons, 3 are definitely town, and I'm still confident raerae is town.  What I was looking for was this...imagine EVERYBODY there is town.  Who's doing the least work to move anything forward.  Why put yourself down as the main proponent of a mislynch (for example, I was main proponent of MiX's lynch, and it got me some Day2 votes even though Mason was likely)??  Why not just keep all options open, not rock any boats, and be happy that a mislynch is basically guaranteed.  Plus perhaps some claims.

Silver: silver's silence has be a bit concerned; from our recollections there is usually more arguments, more activity.  But silver did say that he was trying to avoid being as emotional this game.  So we agreed taht something seemed different, but weren't very sure if it was a conscious evolution of playstyle, or indicative of alignment.  One specific thing: silver's analysis of wagon in #444 didn't sound genuine to me at all.  LaLight thought there might be scum in silver/faust based on their interactions.  We're really sure it's not scum/scum.  If LaLight is right, then it is silver.
Also, I don't think that silver was looking good in end-of-Day1 antics.

DatSwan: We had some disagreement here;  I marked DatSwan as more null, LaLight was more convinced of scum.  I started Day1 thinking town, then went null, DatSwan late in the day seemed more scum.  LaLight was really suspicious of silent DatSwan, which he said was really uncharacteristic.  LaLight says TownSwan has mad skills, and noted that we have observed no mad skills yet.

mail-mi: again, a bit of a disagreement.  Some of the reason I found mail-mi scummy on Day1 was related to MiX; now that is obviously null and void.  I think LaLight was finding mail-mi scummy independent of this; and would have preferred to lynch mail-mi over MiX.  But I am less enthused by the "mail-mi is scum" argument.  I think that he hasn't engaged yet in this game. 
Now that's a bit different than past reads where I silence made me lean scum.  I think EFHW/silver have engaged in the game, but really are failing at being proactive and helpful.  mail-mi hasn't reached the engage-stage yet.
I don't want to lynch mail-mi today; but want to keep him in my radar.

Just plain Null

Joseph: yeah.  both of us were like "uhhhh, no opinion".  I can't wrap myself around joseph's playstyle, and LaLight (who is much better at that) didn't give me any comparisons/examples

Town-side

UncleEurope: Some disagreement here.  I thought Uncle felt a bit scummy; one specific thing that stuck with me was when Uncle got frustrated at the Dylan/mail-mi replacement; if Uncle ever turns up scum, I'd fixate on mail-mi QUICK.  LaLight disagreed, and convinced me otherwise.   This being my retyping of our reads, I can put him on the scummiest side of town (yay bias), but I ended up agreeing with LaLight mostly. 

raerae: Disagreement here.  LaLight found her scummy, but agreed with my assessment (towny), given that I know her and her style better.  Saracasm + challenging hedgers + frustration at sheeping/reasonless votes & opinions.  People have cited that as scummy, but that is just how she is; how she approaches mafia-like games.  She's giving reads, and making cases, and I'm listening.  Raerae is a good scumhunter.

DebatePro: I was null; LaLight said DebatePro was town.  Not many details here, but that's how it is.

faust: LaLight was leaning town and I'm whatever-is-past-leaning town.  Faust's blindspot is ari; it seems like faust consistently finds Ari scummy for reasons that I just don't buy.  I think he'll be even better for town if he can untunnel on that.  LaLight was a little worried because of how scary faust can be as scum, I think that's that we were different on.

Ari'sHipShape: Here's one we both instantly agreed on.  Ari is town. his intense focus on each argument strikes me as genuine.  Although he's being stubborn, this reads as town to me.  LaLight agreed and found Ari towny.  Another note is the back/forth between ari and raerae make me think that at least one party is being honest.  That is, if either end up scum, I'd treat the second one as an IC.  However, I don't think either are scum.

I have been busy, but I do not understand why everyone has not been doing this prior to you releasing your Day 2 reads list:

EFHW - Obviously I agree. You had the added insight of throwing the "you think Rae is town" in there... and I did my assessment assuming that Rae could be skum. So really, the fact that you guys could come to EFHW looking skummy as Rae being towny and me from the other way... kind of makes me confident on that read. I do not agree though that EFHW should of been granted skum points for inactivity. Every game I play with them (regardless of alignment) they tend to do the summary bit thing on day 1. I think it is fairly NAI for them.

Silver - Silver is still nullish for me mainly because I do not put a great deal of weight into activity difference from game to game -  Though I disagree with the "not faust/ss" bit... Not to say "in general", but based off of day 1 interactions - I do not understand why it would be ruled out. It is within the realm I would expect them to act as partners.

Swan - While I am happy to hear that LL thinks I have "mad skills as town"... I have to disagree with the skum read.

Mail-Mi - Agreed pretty much all around with this.

Joseph - I disagree. I find them skummy through Day1. The only reason they even lean "null" to me at all is because of interactions that happened today. *Another post coming on this*

Uncle - I am simply suspicious of them based on the fact that so many people find them towny and I do not understand why.

RaeRae - Agree in the sense that I am torn. They currently sit as my "lynch for info" player. And as I have not pushed it at all today, I hope I will be believed when I say I really never wanted their lynch today.

DebatePro - This is my "Joseph". Their play style def altered from summary and answering from Day 1 to questions and accusations on Day 2 - which could be indicative of nothing, skum coaching, or just being a new player. Kind of just wanted to throw that part in their so it was said - I do not advocate a DebatePro lynch today.

Faust - I would like to know more about what LL had to say about this read. Reading what you stated - you essentially think that faust is being blind to Ari's towniness while LL was worried about faust being skum. What is it that faust has done that makes you think it is town!faust being "blind" vs skum!faust pushing a mis-lynch?

Ari - I do not understand your read. I think it is to an extent of we should not even spend time on it. Literally all of the reasons you stated for reading Ari as town is why I would read any player as potential skum in early days.

[Swowl]

Peoples should take glance at Joseph:

So far, just skummy. Someone is busy, then someone is busy - that's cool. Coming from someone that contributed about *@$% on Day1, combined with the fact that I really do not like attempting to lynch inactive players on early days, just based on inactivity... not contributing (especially after announcing they were busy) - that is one thing. But that isn't what happened.
To this point they make an obvious attempt to contribute "fluff" and isolated reads. IMO if you are busy as town you spend time catching up and creating reads... not randomly throwing out opinions that people have already commented on. That is lazy... Which Joseph is not.

- #552 is Joseph saying they do not like LL when the wagons are MiX, Rae, and LL. They are on LL. No opinion on MiX given yet. Great open window for skum.
- #553 is Joseph subtly laying the "faust should die Night1 if he is town" egg.

- Then there are some other one liners that either do not matter or are them dismissing questions pointed at them.

- #702 is nonsense. Shraeye outright states I do not want to lynch Rae today.. on day 1. The fact that we know Shraeye is Town now holds no merit to this. Skum DOES NOT outright state this for their partner(s) on Day 1. Bus or push a lynch for town cred - yeah sure, depending on the player... but they do not defend on D1. Especially when 2 of the other wagons flip as town... just makes no sense. Obviously, this is also town cred for Rae if Joseph is skum.

- Closing in on EOD, they limit their pool to [Swan, Rae, Mail-Mi]
- #709 all of a sudden MiX is an ok lynch choice.
- #722 now they will lynch anyone but Faust, LL, Ari, or them self

- Last post is stating that they will stay on Rae and they will not be around until DL.

I am a little in the wind about this read, so I would like some input.

[Uncleeurope]

Post 701 was about me, not shraeye, not that that changes the read about Joseph.

Which is why that post felt weird to me as well...

I concur with everything you have said, he seems disconnected from town in some way (if that makes any sense). And the only reason I haven’t been able to build to any kind of a vote against him is because he hasn’t posted enough things (and nothing all that strongly apart from his raerae case IIRC) for me to feel confidence that he is scum.

But he just at seems to pop in and throw shade around then be gone for awhile. I dunno.

[Joseph2302]

- #552 is Joseph saying they do not like LL when the wagons are MiX, Rae, and LL. They are on LL. No opinion on MiX given yet. Great open window for skum.

Not true, I'd made my position on MiX very clear. It seemed obvious to me that he wasn't scummy, but just an overenthusiastic newbie

- #702 is nonsense. Shraeye outright states I do not want to lynch Rae today.. on day 1. The fact that we know Shraeye is Town now holds no merit to this. Skum DOES NOT outright state this for their partner(s) on Day 1. Bus or push a lynch for town cred - yeah sure, depending on the player... but they do not defend on D1. Especially when 2 of the other wagons flip as town... just makes no sense. Obviously, this is also town cred for Rae if Joseph is skum.

I've seen scum do it D1 before. Obviously that wasn't the case here though

- Closing in on EOD, they limit their pool to [Swan, Rae, Mail-Mi]
- #709 all of a sudden MiX is an ok lynch choice.
- #722 now they will lynch anyone but Faust, LL, Ari, or them self

Lynch is better than no lynch, everyone here will tell you that
So because one of my preferred options wasn't happening, I had to widen the pool.
I would have voted for MiX only to get a lynch over a no lynch

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Datswan
That "read" of me was a load of fake bullshit trying to pull a case from nothing
Very scummy