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[faust]

I didn't push Ichi to gain town cred. I pushed him to lynch mafia which I thought would also help clear my name.

What's the difference between "clearing your name" and "gaining towncred", exactly?

[ashersky]

I didn't push Ichi to gain town cred. I pushed him to lynch mafia which I thought would also help clear my name.

What's the difference between "clearing your name" and "gaining towncred", exactly?

On a pure theory level, I think "[attempting to] gain towncred" is something one does regardless of current thoughts on his alignment while "[attempting to] clear your name" is a specific action taken after being suspected.

In Eevee's case, none.

[Eevee]

I didn't push Ichi to gain town cred. I pushed him to lynch mafia which I thought would also help clear my name.

What's the difference between "clearing your name" and "gaining towncred", exactly?

I'm just saying contributing to a successfull mafia lynch like that is something that makes you less likely to be mafia. You know, this is why I don't think ash or WW are mafia.

[Eevee]

Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?

Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.

I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.

Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.

So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.

This was my first reason for voting for Eevee.  I still find this post really scummy.  I can see this post int he context of Eevee thinking Ichi might be his unknown partner. 

Also, sidenote.  We decided that after Ichi claimed, Mafia team can only know Ichi is lying, not that he isn't SK.  How does Mafia react to this?  Do they conclude SK doesn't make sense so conclude Ichi is their partner, or do they maintain doubt?  Faust concluded Mafia knows Ichi is Traitor and would not bus him. In particular, Faust was arguing Eevee being not Mafia (which he is now arguing the other way).  What was it that changed your mind about that, Faust?

the bolded is another example of faust's opportunistic behavior. as far as i can tell he never replied to this.

[ashersky]

Recent thought...all of eevee's untowniness is out of character with scum!eevee.

[faust]

Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?

Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.

I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.

Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.

So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.

This was my first reason for voting for Eevee.  I still find this post really scummy.  I can see this post int he context of Eevee thinking Ichi might be his unknown partner. 

Also, sidenote.  We decided that after Ichi claimed, Mafia team can only know Ichi is lying, not that he isn't SK.  How does Mafia react to this?  Do they conclude SK doesn't make sense so conclude Ichi is their partner, or do they maintain doubt?  Faust concluded Mafia knows Ichi is Traitor and would not bus him. In particular, Faust was arguing Eevee being not Mafia (which he is now arguing the other way).  What was it that changed your mind about that, Faust?

the bolded is another example of faust's opportunistic behavior. as far as i can tell he never replied to this.

Well, PoE. Since everyone here (except Jimmmmm and me) voted Ichi, scum must have bussed, right?

[ashersky]

Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?

Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.

I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.

Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.

So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.

This was my first reason for voting for Eevee.  I still find this post really scummy.  I can see this post int he context of Eevee thinking Ichi might be his unknown partner. 

Also, sidenote.  We decided that after Ichi claimed, Mafia team can only know Ichi is lying, not that he isn't SK.  How does Mafia react to this?  Do they conclude SK doesn't make sense so conclude Ichi is their partner, or do they maintain doubt?  Faust concluded Mafia knows Ichi is Traitor and would not bus him. In particular, Faust was arguing Eevee being not Mafia (which he is now arguing the other way).  What was it that changed your mind about that, Faust?

the bolded is another example of faust's opportunistic behavior. as far as i can tell he never replied to this.

Well, PoE. Since everyone here (except Jimmmmm and me) voted Ichi, scum must have bussed, right?

Not if you are mafia.

[Eevee]

Yeah, no. But I get that you are forced to change a read, sure.

[2.71828.....]

Vote Count 4.2

Eevee (1): faust

Not Voting (4): Eevee, ashersky, witherweaver, Jimmmmm

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. The deadline for Day 4 will be Tuesday, November 4, at 5:00 PM forum time.

[Eevee]

Vote: faust

[faust]

Not if you are mafia.

Wow, for some reason I didn't consider that possibility. 

[Witherweaver]

Eevee just wondering. You were originally on the IG wagon. I don't know if you've stated your ideas on the wagon. did you get a towny vibe from it or scummy?

Honestly, I don't remember voting for IG. The whole "lynched or not lynched" episode happened when I was offline. I'm pretty sure my vote at the time was just a pressure vote, vote to make him feel the heat and give us information.

I'm a big proponent of lynch mafia not scum. Just because IG appears scummy, we don't have to lynch him if the scum narrative doesn't add up. I'm not sure it does here. One big issue I have is why wouldn't he fakeclaim if he was scum? The other is that everyone is so gung-ho against him.

Honestly, maybe he is scummier than your average person, but not my ideal lynch choise for today if we are only factoring in the chance to hit scum. There is of course the fact that anyone who has been near lynched is going to be an informational lynch, were he to flip scum we could more or less absolve the first attackers for example.

So, I don't know. I find the wagon, especially joth, a bit over-eager.

This was my first reason for voting for Eevee.  I still find this post really scummy.  I can see this post int he context of Eevee thinking Ichi might be his unknown partner. 

Also, sidenote.  We decided that after Ichi claimed, Mafia team can only know Ichi is lying, not that he isn't SK.  How does Mafia react to this?  Do they conclude SK doesn't make sense so conclude Ichi is their partner, or do they maintain doubt?  Faust concluded Mafia knows Ichi is Traitor and would not bus him. In particular, Faust was arguing Eevee being not Mafia (which he is now arguing the other way).  What was it that changed your mind about that, Faust?

the bolded is another example of faust's opportunistic behavior. as far as i can tell he never replied to this.

Well, PoE. Since everyone here (except Jimmmmm and me) voted Ichi, scum must have bussed, right?

Then why is it Eevee and not Ash?

[Witherweaver]

And what about the other point.  Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?

[faust]

Then why is it Eevee and not Ash?

1. ash made the Hydrad lynch happen, AND ash made the Ichi lynch happen. I doubt there would be that much bussing.
2. No kill N2 with Eevee being blocked is way more damning than only one kill N1 with ash being blocked.

[faust]

And what about the other point.  Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?

No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.

[Witherweaver]

And what about the other point.  Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?

No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.

That's not all of the question.  They also have to consider whether Ichi would reach the same conclusion as SK.

[faust]

And what about the other point.  Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?

No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.

That's not all of the question.  They also have to consider whether Ichi would reach the same conclusion as SK.

How is this question relevant though?

[Witherweaver]

Because the question is whether they would know Ichi is the Traitor or SK.  Saying claiming is not the correct SK play doesn't answer the question unless you know Ichi will make the correct play.

[faust]

Because the question is whether they would know Ichi is the Traitor or SK.  Saying claiming is not the correct SK play doesn't answer the question unless you know Ichi will make the correct play.

Again, to clarify my question, how is it helpful for us to know whether scum thought Ichi was the SK or their partner?

[Witherweaver]

Because the question is whether they would know Ichi is the Traitor or SK.  Saying claiming is not the correct SK play doesn't answer the question unless you know Ichi will make the correct play.

Again, to clarify my question, how is it helpful for us to know whether scum thought Ichi was the SK or their partner?

Okay not for you.

[ashersky]

And what about the other point.  Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?

No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.

Jimmmmm was arguing that there was "no way" mafia make that claim.  We see how that turned out.

[faust]

And what about the other point.  Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?

No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.

Jimmmmm was arguing that there was "no way" mafia make that claim.  We see how that turned out.

Well, fair point. I still don't see how this question is anything but purely academic right now. Who looks worse if we assume mafia assumed that Ichi was SK instead of Traitor?

[Witherweaver]

And what about the other point.  Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?

No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.

Jimmmmm was arguing that there was "no way" mafia make that claim.  We see how that turned out.

Well, fair point. I still don't see how this question is anything but purely academic right now. Who looks worse if we assume mafia assumed that Ichi was SK instead of Traitor?

Well, you look better, right?  Because then Ash/Eevee didn't bus.  Or at least were only bussing with X% confidence.

[faust]

And what about the other point.  Any chance Mafia was banking on Ichi being SK?

No way that claim makes sense for a SK. The chances for survival till the end with a claimed PR are probably <1%. So I think mafia knew. ash and Eevee are both clever enough to figure this out.

Jimmmmm was arguing that there was "no way" mafia make that claim.  We see how that turned out.

Well, fair point. I still don't see how this question is anything but purely academic right now. Who looks worse if we assume mafia assumed that Ichi was SK instead of Traitor?

Well, you look better, right?  Because then Ash/Eevee didn't bus.  Or at least were only bussing with X% confidence.

Hm, that's right, I guess. You'd have to wonder if mafia would want to lynch the SK in this case... I think rather not? Which, uh, would mean that I don't actually look better. So that was a bad argument, forget everthing you just read.

[Eevee]

Guys, should we start to think about putting down votes? People aren't rereading, there is no new information coming in, I don't see anything to gain by letting the game stagnate.