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[gkrieg13]

Oh duh. I forgot how the draft works. And what it all means. There is one thing to get out of this, but not much, and I don’t want to say it.

[Swowl]

At this point I'm willing to lynch DatSwan to get him out of the game.

Probably a poor decision. I am assuming that you do not like my Galz tunnel for some reason, which whatever, it is your right to choose your opinion. However, to say this is to say that you believe I am Town and you also think that I am hindering the progress of Town.

What would you do in my position. Past the initial action part, obviously if your play would of been to counter claim right away then none of it matters. Assuming you wait it out as I did, after the way things panned out, would you not think that you found skum there?

I do not like this statement from you. I am following my clearest skum read to ensure that any and all information from it is divulged. For you to claim you would do anything less in my position is, hopefully, a lie.

[Swowl]

Not to like whatever - but again - He doesn't need to know of a town version of the role. If he has the role he can claim it is a town version. We have no way of knowing. Setup specifically states that it can change stuff like that.

I thought it only changed win cons to make the scum teams work out, but otherwise alignments would agree.

I do not want to get "hate slapped" by Faust... so I am going to just vaguely say this.... Based on the knowledge of the words I have personally read in blue text with my own eyes, one's alignment can def be altered. Going to point out this is not a skum slip or something and yadda yadda. I am Town.

Whether or not this was done just to make the game work, as you mention, I do not know.

[faust]

The thing has been done.  Now we wait for the stuffs.

Vote Count 2.4

Haddock (3): iguanaiguana, EFHW, Witherweaver
iguanaiguana (1): schadd
DatSwan (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Galzria (1): DatSwan
Witherweaver (1): chairs
schadd (2): Galzria, silverspawn
EFHW (1): gkrieg13

Not Voting (5): ashersky, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., JaketheBaseballGod22, Dylan32

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 2 ends November 25 at 6:30 am forum time.

[Swowl]

So IDK what is really to be made of this but from the RMM bid perspective...

1) I was pick 1 and bid RMM44. I am the only flipped 44 at this point, so there must be several other bids (skum lying), Roles in game, or Fake Claims offered from RM44. Same concept to used toward RMM bids 28, 18, 16, and 14 if I understand the rules correctly.
2) Draft Orders 13 and 14 both bid on RMM13, and got 13 and 14 as their position.
3) Draft Order 17 bid on RMM10. PPS also flipped as a Role from RMM10, so that is 2 points for 10, and still RMM10 as a pick got the last position in the Draft.

So... assuming everything is on the level that would mean what... That the base line of knowledge is RMM10 at 2 points got position 17, therefore every game must have at least 2 points associated with it that is in the game? Or I suppose if we ever get a determinant number of points associated with the people in Draft Positions 12 or 15 we can use that to try and isolate a baseline for something further down the draft line.


Butttttttt then we return to the part I had an issue with before which is we will never know exactly which Fake Claims were offered in the game nor will we know if Skum is lying about their claims. In the end this idea feels like an attempt to create false info that Skum can manipulate down the road. I feel like their ability to use it far outweighs our own.

Also, as it is clear no one wants to lynch Galz with me, I am going to switch to Schadd for the time being as it is the only other case I am reading I find faith in.

Vote: Schadd

[Haddock]

schadd has some reads finally!  I still wish he posted more, especially after the EoD yesterday.  I'll come back to that later though.

I just did a quick reread of WW and I don't see Haddock's points. I think this is Haddock trying to pivot.

I remember ashersky making a point against silver that sounded important. I'll look into that next.

I got similar feelings to this.  Haddock's going after iguana didn't work, so it looks like he is looking for a new target.  But, the problem is that I think this is also what he might do as town when he realizes that his tunneled is town.

I think Jake is wrong about galz, at least his reasoning is wrong.

stopping at #700 this time, but I'm surprised that no one has brought up schadd, and that no one is voting for EFHW.  She is being very scummy.  vote: EFHW.

Thankyou for explaining what EFHW meant by "pivoting", since she never did. 
I could probably vote EFHW, but right now I still prefer DatSwan, I think. 

Oh, just realized that I had almost caught up.  Doing the rest now.

Vote: Schadd

Does anybody know of a game where town:
- Could vote without it counting
- Couldn't hammer
- Only had their vote count when made from their QT
- Any other town explanation for Schadd being able to vote publicly but not have it count

?

Ok, someone finally brings this up.  I think that at this point, schadd just has to full-claim.  The only roles I know of with this are scum roles (I haven't looked closely), but I know this was something that outed Haddock as scum in rewind 1.  I think though, that faust would be unlikely to put the same role in as from Rewind 1 (although Haddock was really outed because you had only the roles from the same game to fakeclaim, you weren't able to go to other games safely, so that is really what outed Haddock).  And if faust didn't put that role in, it seems strange that he would give scum 2 traitors (Settlers of Catan and Frost person from flash). 

But, I still don't know a role that is town that would have the powers that he is claiming to have, and none of the items do that at all.

I love how everyone is talking about schadd now and being all "why did noone mention this before?", when I brought it up here:

Also, lest we forget:

Confirmed, Rolestopping Priest was an Orc role in LOTR2 that I made — couldn’t hammer ever unless only Orc left alive.

Does Faust flip that into a town role?  Anyway, good info for the future.

I want to emphasize this so that folks don’t forget this tomorrow.  Or if killing roles want to sort this out for us tonight.

Ash was keen to have discussion about schadd's fakehammer. 
It's a good point.  Orcish Priest is the only role that springs to my mind because it's what I was in Rewind 1.  (Does faust use the same roles as from Rewind 1? Dunno. Probably not?)

and was roundly ignored.
I'm not sure we really need schadd to claim, do we?  I mean - we can be pretty sure he's a Priest, in which case we know what his claim is going to be, don't we?

What's that got to do with anything?
Jake is claiming that the role that Galz has claimed would be a good one for scum to have, particularly when combined with certain items. But so what?

Barring weird mod nonsense, it's impossible for galz to simultaneously be scum and have the role he has claimed.

It's a RMM. Weird nonsense is the definition.

Yeah he even has a whole section in set up explaining that changes in roles will be a different text color or whatever. I think it is t only not unlikely, i think it is to be expected

Meh.  I mean, YES, maybe faust has changed some roles, yes, MAYBE one of them has changed alignment.  But
a) what are the chances that we happen to snag on exactly THAT role to worry about among the 16 players (OK, 1/16, I know.  My point it, that's pretty small.)
b) It doesn't alter my point, which is that DatSwan is (or was) making an argument that Galzria is scum based on the ASSUMPTION that Galz is being honest about his role.  Does noone else see the craziness there?

Ok, getting to this now in the only way I know how.

I'm not the biggest fan of Haddock's Start of day.  Seems weird to be mad at an SK lynch, because I think those are generally the hardest ones to find.

Either you're misrepresenting me or I said something I don't remember saying.  I wasn't mad about the SK lynch, at all.  I said something to the effect of "that was a good lynch", didn't I?
I may have been a little bit peeved to have missed so much of the end of D1 - it all zipped by so quickly while I was gone for less than a day.
 

[Haddock]

Per my point b) above, there have been a couple of occasions where DatSwan has made arguments for scum!Galz based on the assumption that Galz is being honest.  To me, this borders scumslip territory.

[Witherweaver]

Not to like whatever - but again - He doesn't need to know of a town version of the role. If he has the role he can claim it is a town version. We have no way of knowing. Setup specifically states that it can change stuff like that.

I thought it only changed win cons to make the scum teams work out, but otherwise alignments would agree.

I do not want to get "hate slapped" by Faust... so I am going to just vaguely say this.... Based on the knowledge of the words I have personally read in blue text with my own eyes, one's alignment can def be altered. Going to point out this is not a skum slip or something and yadda yadda. I am Town.

Whether or not this was done just to make the game work, as you mention, I do not know.

Are you saying your role was scum and is now town? The setup text indicates this doesn't happen. If your role was a non-killing third party (like, another 'town', usually with blue text instead of green), then the setup stipulates that possible change. But going from, say, Mafia (red) to Town (green) would not. I'm basing this off of:

Win conditions will remain the same. There will be at least one non-town faction consisting of non-town players. If necessary, the original win condition will be slightly amended so that players from the same faction share the same win condition.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

At this point I'm willing to lynch DatSwan to get him out of the game.

Hate this from WW

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Huh, I thought the end of yesterday was a normal fake hammer. So maybe Schadd actually can't hammer?

In that case, his play yesterday seems pretty townie.

Agree with this

[chairs]

So IDK what is really to be made of this but from the RMM bid perspective...

1) I was pick 1 and bid RMM44. I am the only flipped 44 at this point, so there must be several other bids (skum lying), Roles in game, or Fake Claims offered from RM44. Same concept to used toward RMM bids 28, 18, 16, and 14 if I understand the rules correctly.
2) Draft Orders 13 and 14 both bid on RMM13, and got 13 and 14 as their position.
3) Draft Order 17 bid on RMM10. PPS also flipped as a Role from RMM10, so that is 2 points for 10, and still RMM10 as a pick got the last position in the Draft.

So... assuming everything is on the level that would mean what... That the base line of knowledge is RMM10 at 2 points got position 17, therefore every game must have at least 2 points associated with it that is in the game? Or I suppose if we ever get a determinant number of points associated with the people in Draft Positions 12 or 15 we can use that to try and isolate a baseline for something further down the draft line.


Butttttttt then we return to the part I had an issue with before which is we will never know exactly which Fake Claims were offered in the game nor will we know if Skum is lying about their claims. In the end this idea feels like an attempt to create false info that Skum can manipulate down the road. I feel like their ability to use it far outweighs our own.

Also, as it is clear no one wants to lynch Galz with me, I am going to switch to Schadd for the time being as it is the only other case I am reading I find faith in.

Vote: Schadd

Ugh you mean I guessed based on a misunderstanding of the draft? I thought it was like golf and we wanted to go for low score.

[Witherweaver]

You do want low for the draft.

[Galzria]

So IDK what is really to be made of this but from the RMM bid perspective...

1) I was pick 1 and bid RMM44. I am the only flipped 44 at this point, so there must be several other bids (skum lying), Roles in game, or Fake Claims offered from RM44. Same concept to used toward RMM bids 28, 18, 16, and 14 if I understand the rules correctly.
2) Draft Orders 13 and 14 both bid on RMM13, and got 13 and 14 as their position.
3) Draft Order 17 bid on RMM10. PPS also flipped as a Role from RMM10, so that is 2 points for 10, and still RMM10 as a pick got the last position in the Draft.

So... assuming everything is on the level that would mean what... That the base line of knowledge is RMM10 at 2 points got position 17, therefore every game must have at least 2 points associated with it that is in the game? Or I suppose if we ever get a determinant number of points associated with the people in Draft Positions 12 or 15 we can use that to try and isolate a baseline for something further down the draft line.


Butttttttt then we return to the part I had an issue with before which is we will never know exactly which Fake Claims were offered in the game nor will we know if Skum is lying about their claims. In the end this idea feels like an attempt to create false info that Skum can manipulate down the road. I feel like their ability to use it far outweighs our own.

Also, as it is clear no one wants to lynch Galz with me, I am going to switch to Schadd for the time being as it is the only other case I am reading I find faith in.

Vote: Schadd

Ugh you mean I guessed based on a misunderstanding of the draft? I thought it was like golf and we wanted to go for low score.

You are correct and Swan was 100% backwards in that post. The more total points a game had associated with it, the further back you ended in the draft. Swan ending up Draft 1 means that his game selection had the lowest score - meaning (likely) nobody else bid for it, and that it's the least likely game to have PR's drawn from it that exist in this game.

[iguanaiguana]

Request prod on schadd

[silverspawn]

Request votes on shadd

[iguanaiguana]

I would like to see what he has to say, but if he doesn't post, I'll vote in 24 hours.

[Swowl]

So IDK what is really to be made of this but from the RMM bid perspective...

1) I was pick 1 and bid RMM44. I am the only flipped 44 at this point, so there must be several other bids (skum lying), Roles in game, or Fake Claims offered from RM44. Same concept to used toward RMM bids 28, 18, 16, and 14 if I understand the rules correctly.
2) Draft Orders 13 and 14 both bid on RMM13, and got 13 and 14 as their position.
3) Draft Order 17 bid on RMM10. PPS also flipped as a Role from RMM10, so that is 2 points for 10, and still RMM10 as a pick got the last position in the Draft.

So... assuming everything is on the level that would mean what... That the base line of knowledge is RMM10 at 2 points got position 17, therefore every game must have at least 2 points associated with it that is in the game? Or I suppose if we ever get a determinant number of points associated with the people in Draft Positions 12 or 15 we can use that to try and isolate a baseline for something further down the draft line.


Butttttttt then we return to the part I had an issue with before which is we will never know exactly which Fake Claims were offered in the game nor will we know if Skum is lying about their claims. In the end this idea feels like an attempt to create false info that Skum can manipulate down the road. I feel like their ability to use it far outweighs our own.

Also, as it is clear no one wants to lynch Galz with me, I am going to switch to Schadd for the time being as it is the only other case I am reading I find faith in.

Vote: Schadd

Ugh you mean I guessed based on a misunderstanding of the draft? I thought it was like golf and we wanted to go for low score.

You are correct and Swan was 100% backwards in that post. The more total points a game had associated with it, the further back you ended in the draft. Swan ending up Draft 1 means that his game selection had the lowest score - meaning (likely) nobody else bid for it, and that it's the least likely game to have PR's drawn from it that exist in this game.

Huh... I actually knew that. OK fine, same points apply just reverse them... I am not writing it all back up

[Swowl]

Not to like whatever - but again - He doesn't need to know of a town version of the role. If he has the role he can claim it is a town version. We have no way of knowing. Setup specifically states that it can change stuff like that.

I thought it only changed win cons to make the scum teams work out, but otherwise alignments would agree.

I do not want to get "hate slapped" by Faust... so I am going to just vaguely say this.... Based on the knowledge of the words I have personally read in blue text with my own eyes, one's alignment can def be altered. Going to point out this is not a skum slip or something and yadda yadda. I am Town.

Whether or not this was done just to make the game work, as you mention, I do not know.

Are you saying your role was scum and is now town? The setup text indicates this doesn't happen. If your role was a non-killing third party (like, another 'town', usually with blue text instead of green), then the setup stipulates that possible change. But going from, say, Mafia (red) to Town (green) would not. I'm basing this off of:

Win conditions will remain the same. There will be at least one non-town faction consisting of non-town players. If necessary, the original win condition will be slightly amended so that players from the same faction share the same win condition.

Nope. Was just saying my Allignment was changed from the original game.

[Swowl]

schadd has some reads finally!  I still wish he posted more, especially after the EoD yesterday.  I'll come back to that later though.

I just did a quick reread of WW and I don't see Haddock's points. I think this is Haddock trying to pivot.


Yeah he even has a whole section in set up explaining that changes in roles will be a different text color or whatever. I think it is t only not unlikely, i think it is to be expected

Meh.  I mean, YES, maybe faust has changed some roles, yes, MAYBE one of them has changed alignment.  But
a) what are the chances that we happen to snag on exactly THAT role to worry about among the 16 players (OK, 1/16, I know.  My point it, that's pretty small.)
b) It doesn't alter my point, which is that DatSwan is (or was) making an argument that Galzria is scum based on the ASSUMPTION that Galz is being honest about his role.  Does noone else see the craziness there?

a) Chances are low, just pointing out what I know.

b) Also, I feel like I have made it very clear that I believe Galz is using this role as a Fake Claim and that he is NOT in fact being honest. Me speaking to Galz truthfulness as his role was...
1) A hypothetical regarding his draft selection as I thought he would go water in this situation (whole bit was to prove my point I don't believe his claim)
2) To try and attempt to clarify the switching of alignments (for the same reasons).


It's all there sir, you can go back and find it. I don't really care if you do since you are either so far off thinking me Skum or you are Skum knowing me Town. But on the off chance it is the first, you should go back and check.

[Swowl]

aklcn'oairngf
quote fail its in there.

[faust]

Request prod on schadd

Sent.

[Witherweaver]

Not to like whatever - but again - He doesn't need to know of a town version of the role. If he has the role he can claim it is a town version. We have no way of knowing. Setup specifically states that it can change stuff like that.

I thought it only changed win cons to make the scum teams work out, but otherwise alignments would agree.

I do not want to get "hate slapped" by Faust... so I am going to just vaguely say this.... Based on the knowledge of the words I have personally read in blue text with my own eyes, one's alignment can def be altered. Going to point out this is not a skum slip or something and yadda yadda. I am Town.

Whether or not this was done just to make the game work, as you mention, I do not know.

Are you saying your role was scum and is now town? The setup text indicates this doesn't happen. If your role was a non-killing third party (like, another 'town', usually with blue text instead of green), then the setup stipulates that possible change. But going from, say, Mafia (red) to Town (green) would not. I'm basing this off of:

Win conditions will remain the same. There will be at least one non-town faction consisting of non-town players. If necessary, the original win condition will be slightly amended so that players from the same faction share the same win condition.

Nope. Was just saying my Allignment was changed from the original game.

This is statistically scummy inasmuch as Schadd's is, because there have been more games with multiple scum factions than there have been with multiple town factions.

Assuming my read of the setup is correct.

[Swowl]

Not to like whatever - but again - He doesn't need to know of a town version of the role. If he has the role he can claim it is a town version. We have no way of knowing. Setup specifically states that it can change stuff like that.

I thought it only changed win cons to make the scum teams work out, but otherwise alignments would agree.

I do not want to get "hate slapped" by Faust... so I am going to just vaguely say this.... Based on the knowledge of the words I have personally read in blue text with my own eyes, one's alignment can def be altered. Going to point out this is not a skum slip or something and yadda yadda. I am Town.

Whether or not this was done just to make the game work, as you mention, I do not know.

Are you saying your role was scum and is now town? The setup text indicates this doesn't happen. If your role was a non-killing third party (like, another 'town', usually with blue text instead of green), then the setup stipulates that possible change. But going from, say, Mafia (red) to Town (green) would not. I'm basing this off of:

Win conditions will remain the same. There will be at least one non-town faction consisting of non-town players. If necessary, the original win condition will be slightly amended so that players from the same faction share the same win condition.

Nope. Was just saying my Allignment was changed from the original game.

This is statistically scummy inasmuch as Schadd's is, because there have been more games with multiple scum factions than there have been with multiple town factions.

Assuming my read of the setup is correct.

Right. And if I was skum I would totally of brought it all up in the first place <--- (lots of sarcasm)

[SpaceAnemone]

Darn.. my post just got eaten by a browser crash, and now I really need sleep :-(

Am likely to be in the same place as Haddock tomorrow night, so probably no forum time then..

[2.71828.....]

Hm. Interesting. Very interesting