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[Haddock]

Vote: egork

Reasons?

Sorry things are super busy. I totally believe teproc. No way he backs off me the way he does without hard evidence

Well, if he's scum I think you are as well, so this doesnt really help. Dont want to lynch him today though I dont think.

[Hydrad]

Vote: egork

Reasons?

I like wagons. plus I think at least 1 scum claimed VT and egork is the scummiest to me.

[faust]

Yeah ok.

vote: iguana

It's not that this is completely incoherent, but his claim is altogether fishy. One-Shot Bulletproof seems too vanilla for this game, it's the only claimed roled that doesn't fit the "typicalPR with some modifier" pattern so far, it sounds like the kind of thing that you would come up with based on a fake flavor claim too.

I don't buy that town!iguana misunderstands what Haddock was talking about earlier.

1-shot BP is a typical PR with some modifier... are you saying it's not exotic enough? That's a weird thing to say for a Macho Cop. Also WW's PR does not have a modifier attached at all.

[Teproc]

Bulletproof isn't what I'd call a typical PR, in fact I don't think I've ever seen a full bulletproof in any normal game. But I suppose it does fit that structure. I forgot WW did not, that's true.

I'm saying "One-Shot Bulletproof" isn't very specific, flavor-wise. Like, you're a NInja Tracker even though Ninja is unlikely to be useful, because Black Widow = ninja. I'm a Macho Cop even though that's mostly irrelevant (it's not like jailkeeping a cop is that great anyway), because that fits my flavor.

One-Shot Bulletproof sunds like the kind of thing scum could easily come up with looking at flavor names.

[faust]

Why does noone listen to me? I don't say a lot today, you could at least pay attention to that.

Question: Assume scum has redirecting powers. Why is there no indication of them being used last night?

So this is relevant. We need to figure out what happened. Assume all claims are correct (I think those in favor of lynching VTs at least believe most of the claims are correct). Then we know that scum has a Redirecting power and a Vanillaising power. That makes Hydrad very unlikely scum, yes? He has to be a Goon (which there is arguably at most one of) and he must not have performed the kill on N1. I don't see why people in favor of lynching VTs would end up on Hydrad.

Now Teproc's claim. It gives me the chills. Perfect timing for scum. Cop won't be lynched the Day he claims, and he does not deliver a guilty result so that he can drive home a mislynch today. Tomorrow (at LyLo) he will come out with a guilty result on someone. This is exactly how scum likes their fakeclaims.

And Teproc, who was huge about redirection stuff and not trusting our results on D2, is suddenly all ready to believe in whatever result he himself got. That doesn't really add up, especially as we have no idea where redirection stuff might have happened tonight.

Also flavor fits so perfectly with the other roles claims, and I have a hard time fitting Teproc's flavor with his role.

So there's a pretty solid case for Teproc. The only thing giving me pause is WW's push for that same lynch. I still think the explanation for WW and me both being town is meh. His overall play seems townie, but then I know that he is capable of faking that. There's the mod error - I think we can be sure that some mod error has been made, though arguably it could be possible that there was another mod error that happened to scum!WW and he decided to take advantage of that. Still it gives some town points. And a WW/Teproc scum team seems highly unlikely.

[faust]

Well, in fact, Vote: Teproc

[faust]

Bulletproof isn't what I'd call a typical PR, in fact I don't think I've ever seen a full bulletproof in any normal game. But I suppose it does fit that structure. I forgot WW did not, that's true.

I'm saying "One-Shot Bulletproof" isn't very specific, flavor-wise. Like, you're a NInja Tracker even though Ninja is unlikely to be useful, because Black Widow = ninja. I'm a Macho Cop even though that's mostly irrelevant (it's not like jailkeeping a cop is that great anyway), because that fits my flavor.

One-Shot Bulletproof sunds like the kind of thing scum could easily come up with looking at flavor names.

I don't buy that because iguana has recently been in a game (RMM28) where scum was almost lynched over claiming one-shot BP.

[Teproc]

Well I was trying to deliver a guilty result... I would not have claimed otherwise and would have opposed a massclaim.

I trust my results because I have no reason not to believe them. On D2 I read both claims as townie... as a matter of fact I grew less townie on you by the end of the day, but figured it as worth letting a potential tracker live and had stronger scum reads elsewhere anyway.

Can't do much about my flavor as I don't know it. ash actually mentioned that it fit very well, too.

[Teproc]

Bulletproof isn't what I'd call a typical PR, in fact I don't think I've ever seen a full bulletproof in any normal game. But I suppose it does fit that structure. I forgot WW did not, that's true.

I'm saying "One-Shot Bulletproof" isn't very specific, flavor-wise. Like, you're a NInja Tracker even though Ninja is unlikely to be useful, because Black Widow = ninja. I'm a Macho Cop even though that's mostly irrelevant (it's not like jailkeeping a cop is that great anyway), because that fits my flavor.

One-Shot Bulletproof sunds like the kind of thing scum could easily come up with looking at flavor names.

I don't buy that because iguana has recently been in a game (RMM28) where scum was almost lynched over claiming one-shot BP.

Meh, don't think that changes much.

[faust]

ash actually mentioned that it fit very well, too.

You're talking about the flavor with the mod? 

[Teproc]

If redirection happened on N2, it might also have been one-shot. I'm ready believing redirection happened on N1 because the claims were both very townie and it's one unlikely explanation among many.

By no means am I trusting all the claims today. I'm just saying at least one scum must be among the claimed VTs, so we might as well give PRs a night to do something since we're not a lylo, and then evaluate given what happens.

I mentioned my QT, right ? He said something to that effect when I was lamenting being a Macho Cop. I would dig it up, but you know, can't quote it obviously.

[Teproc]

I was lamenting because I have the worst meta for that (active townie that gets NKed every time) and had to play against type to avoid being universally townread.

Which is a convenient explanation for "I've been scummy", so make of it what you will, but that is indeed what happened. I was trying to get suspected by the veterans and have the newbies trust me, which mostly happened, though I got a bit scared towards the end of day 2. At least gave me two results.

[faust]

By no means am I trusting all the claims today. I'm just saying at least one scum must be among the claimed VTs, so we might as well give PRs a night to do something since we're not a lylo, and then evaluate given what happens.

You keep saying that and yet never actually evaluate night actions...

[Teproc]

By no means am I trusting all the claims today. I'm just saying at least one scum must be among the claimed VTs, so we might as well give PRs a night to do something since we're not a lylo, and then evaluate given what happens.

You keep saying that and yet never actually evaluate night actions...

I did think I had caught scum thanks to that, but alright. I think WW got even townier, and so did you to a lesser extent.

[Witherweaver]

Note: if Teproc is scum, he probably actually targeted e with something, OR he knows e made an action.  Otherwise, he doesn't counterclaim me.

So the narrative here is he had to have thought I was third party and he could get town points by lynching me.

Not sure if it makes it more or less likely, really.

[2.71828.....]

This is good. I need to take the time to actually read this. But makes me much more suspicious of teproc.

Because scum knows I am town. What better way to get me on their side then "cop" me and get my town result?

[2.71828.....]

But why risk that? Scum are doing well. Doesn't seem like the time to risk that

[Witherweaver]

This is good. I need to take the time to actually read this. But makes me much more suspicious of teproc.

Because scum knows I am town. What better way to get me on their side then "cop" me and get my town result?

So as scummy. Much wow.

[EgorK]

This game still gives little sense to me. Trying to make more

[Haddock]

People voting for Teproc: do you agree that if he is scum the e is also?
If so, why not vote for e instead?  Then there is no risk of cop killing.

Lynching a VT still seems better to me though.

[Haddock]

*then

Also I obviously mean lynch a claimed VT, not actually lynch a VT.

[Witherweaver]

People voting for Teproc: do you agree that if he is scum the e is also?
If so, why not vote for e instead?  Then there is no risk of cop killing.

Lynching a VT still seems better to me though.

I don't agree that this follows.

[Haddock]

Fair enough.

[iguanaiguana]

People voting for Teproc: do you agree that if he is scum the e is also?
If so, why not vote for e instead?  Then there is no risk of cop killing.

Lynching a VT still seems better to me though.

If e is scum, e is probably town.

Three people reported a result consistent with e being VT. That makes him very likely to be a VT and a really bad lynch.

[iguanaiguana]

*If Teproc is scum, e is probably town.