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[Teproc]

I didn't call you dumb, I said believing this was dumb. There is an important difference, in that I certainly don't intend to insult you (and I apologize if I did). Everyone does dumb things.

[ashersky]

I'm pretty sure we've massclaimed at the beginning Day 1 before, in some RMM game.  Maybe one with Yuma?

Also that one Dominion Card game, which was arguably setup breaking.

The one where I was scum and I proposed the scum-defeating plan?  Yeah.

Yeah. That one. I was scum with you. It was a great plan

And yet no MVP nod for me.  It was rigged.

[faust]

I guess I should just resing to dying early...

I am #1.

[LaLight]

I didn't call you dumb, I said believing this was dumb. There is an important difference, in that I certainly don't intend to insult you (and I apologize if I did). Everyone does dumb things.

nonono I am not offended, that's okay! I was indeed dumb

[Teproc]

I guess I should just resing to dying early...

I am #1.

Twice in a row, impressive. I was going to look up Philosopher's, but you modded that.

[SpaceAnemone]

I guess I should just resing to dying early...

I am #1.

Yeah, this. I'm #2.

[faust]

I guess I should just resing to dying early...

I am #1.

Twice in a row, impressive. I was going to look up Philosopher's, but you modded that.

Well. Imagine something being posted here if it wasn't for those darn restrictions.

[Teproc]

I didn't call you dumb, I said believing this was dumb. There is an important difference, in that I certainly don't intend to insult you (and I apologize if I did). Everyone does dumb things.

nonono I am not offended, that's okay! I was indeed dumb

Good. Also, townie reaction.

unvote

Let's try a vote: Galz. He was around but I don't remember what he said: scummy for him.

[2.71828.....]

Faust makes good points.  I mean, the idea behind a mass claim is trading all our power roles for the possible outing of scum based on lies.  That requires absolute truth from town and perception of the imperfection of even provided fakeclaims.

We've never tested it, probably never will.

I disagree. We aren't trying to catch scum in a lie.... yet. We are forcing scum who won... say, station 5... to claim watcher rather than investigative immune. This forces scum to create a lie that we can catch them in on D3 or D4.

I fully anticipate not learning anything from a mass claim on D1. But I also think that it will win is the game on D3/D4

[faust]

Faust makes good points.  I mean, the idea behind a mass claim is trading all our power roles for the possible outing of scum based on lies.  That requires absolute truth from town and perception of the imperfection of even provided fakeclaims.

We've never tested it, probably never will.

I disagree. We aren't trying to catch scum in a lie.... yet. We are forcing scum who won... say, station 5... to claim watcher rather than investigative immune. This forces scum to create a lie that we can catch them in on D3 or D4.

I think it's utopian to assume we will ever catch them. That kind of thing can only be found out via PRs, and since scum will know all PRs, they can just kill off the ones that pose a threat to their lies.

[2.71828.....]

Faust makes good points.  I mean, the idea behind a mass claim is trading all our power roles for the possible outing of scum based on lies.  That requires absolute truth from town and perception of the imperfection of even provided fakeclaims.

We've never tested it, probably never will.

I disagree. We aren't trying to catch scum in a lie.... yet. We are forcing scum who won... say, station 5... to claim watcher rather than investigative immune. This forces scum to create a lie that we can catch them in on D3 or D4.

I fully anticipate not learning anything from a mass claim on D1. But I also think that it will win is the game on D3/D4

Wait, reading again I guess it I did agree. I was thinking you were stating we would find scum D1. But that isn't actually a correct conclusion

[ashersky]

I find that this order claiming may have something to offer after all.

And that may be bad.

Fully hypothetical situation:

Scum!space is #2, bid on PR8.  Lost.  Knows faust, as #1 is that PR (or one from the same station).

You can extrapolate that down the line for all players who chose a PR and lost.

This seems bad.

[ashersky]

Right, a massclaim D1 doesn't catch scum D1.  It theoretically catches scum down the line when newly verified information joins the mix.

[2.71828.....]

Faust makes good points.  I mean, the idea behind a mass claim is trading all our power roles for the possible outing of scum based on lies.  That requires absolute truth from town and perception of the imperfection of even provided fakeclaims.

We've never tested it, probably never will.

I disagree. We aren't trying to catch scum in a lie.... yet. We are forcing scum who won... say, station 5... to claim watcher rather than investigative immune. This forces scum to create a lie that we can catch them in on D3 or D4.

I think it's utopian to assume we will ever catch them. That kind of thing can only be found out via PRs, and since scum will know all PRs, they can just kill off the ones that pose a threat to their lies.

M100 had several townies with low numbers not have PRs. As the SK I intentionally went for a slot that I thought would help prevent townies from getting PRs. And it worked.

Now, you have a PR for sure

[faust]

IYou can extrapolate that down the line for all players who chose a PR and lost.

This seems bad.

It doesn't really work for anyone but Space. And it's not particularly likely that scum!Space and I would have gone for the same PR anyway.

[faust]

Faust makes good points.  I mean, the idea behind a mass claim is trading all our power roles for the possible outing of scum based on lies.  That requires absolute truth from town and perception of the imperfection of even provided fakeclaims.

We've never tested it, probably never will.

I disagree. We aren't trying to catch scum in a lie.... yet. We are forcing scum who won... say, station 5... to claim watcher rather than investigative immune. This forces scum to create a lie that we can catch them in on D3 or D4.

I think it's utopian to assume we will ever catch them. That kind of thing can only be found out via PRs, and since scum will know all PRs, they can just kill off the ones that pose a threat to their lies.

M100 had several townies with low numbers not have PRs. As the SK I intentionally went for a slot that I thought would help prevent townies from getting PRs. And it worked.

Now, you have a PR for sure

Oh, okay. I thought you were arguing massclaim rather than draft order claim.

[2.71828.....]

I find that this order claiming may have something to offer after all.

And that may be bad.

Fully hypothetical situation:

Scum!space is #2, bid on PR8.  Lost.  Knows faust, as #1 is that PR (or one from the same station).

You can extrapolate that down the line for all players who chose a PR and lost.

This seems bad.

So after the order claiming we mass claim to prevent this?

I don't think it is that bad of a situation though

[ashersky]

IYou can extrapolate that down the line for all players who chose a PR and lost.

This seems bad.

It doesn't really work for anyone but Space. And it's not particularly likely that scum!Space and I would have gone for the same PR anyway.

Why not?  Depends on strategy, which the scum team was able to formulate.

I mean, if you are both scum, it is all moot.

It basically works best for the lowest # VT, then less well after, dying out at around #10 maybe for usefulness?

[faust]

I find that this order claiming may have something to offer after all.

And that may be bad.

Fully hypothetical situation:

Scum!space is #2, bid on PR8.  Lost.  Knows faust, as #1 is that PR (or one from the same station).

You can extrapolate that down the line for all players who chose a PR and lost.

This seems bad.

So after the order claiming we mass claim to prevent this?

I don't think it is that bad of a situation though

It's not bad. I mean worst case, scum wanted to kill me before we claimed, now they still want to kill me.

[ashersky]

Also, screw it, I guess.  I was anti-claiming numbers for this very reason.

I was #1.  vote: faust

[faust]

IYou can extrapolate that down the line for all players who chose a PR and lost.

This seems bad.

It doesn't really work for anyone but Space. And it's not particularly likely that scum!Space and I would have gone for the same PR anyway.

Why not?  Depends on strategy, which the scum team was able to formulate.

I mean, if you are both scum, it is all moot.

It basically works best for the lowest # VT, then less well after, dying out at around #10 maybe for usefulness?

If position #3 lost, then they already don't know who of the two players ahead of them got their PR. It gets increasingly harder to tell from there.

[Eevee]

Competing number claims? Either faust or ash is scum and deemed it worth it to go down like this?

Oh me oh my!

[faust]

Also, screw it, I guess.  I was anti-claiming numbers for this very reason.

I was #1.  vote: faust

Uh what?

[ashersky]

Also, screw it, I guess.  I was anti-claiming numbers for this very reason.

I was #1.  vote: faust

unvote

Not as funny as I wanted.  I wish I had thought of it immediately after your claim.

[Eevee]

I'm inclined to believe faust, because I think ash would be more likely to do this as scum.

OTOH this might be one of those cases where ash retracts his claim later.