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[ashersky]

I prefer mass claim to draft order claim.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

What is the point of ordering a draft number claim? It isn't like scum will be able to fake claim their number if we do it now on Day 1. There are 17 numbers. They have to have one and lying about what it is wouldbeobvious. There aren't "safe" fake draft order numbers.

Seems like a delay tactic, but even to that, what is the point?

[faust]

What is the point of ordering a draft number claim? It isn't like scum will be able to fake claim their number if we do it now on Day 1. There are 17 numbers. They have to have one and lying about what it is wouldbeobvious. There aren't "safe" fake draft order numbers.

Seems like a delay tactic, but even to that, what is the point?

Yes, the point is they have to tell the truth now. The same will not be the case later.

It's not as good as it would have been without the new ruling, that's for sure.

[faust]

I prefer mass claim to draft order claim.

What does a mass claim give us that a draft claim does not?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

What is the point of ordering a draft number claim? It isn't like scum will be able to fake claim their number if we do it now on Day 1. There are 17 numbers. They have to have one and lying about what it is wouldbeobvious. There aren't "safe" fake draft order numbers.

Seems like a delay tactic, but even to that, what is the point?

Yes, the point is they have to tell the truth now. The same will not be the case later.

It's not as good as it would have been without the new ruling, that's for sure.

Right. I know.but why create an order in how everyone should take turns to claim? Just claim when you get online.

[faust]

Well, yes, that works fine, assuming everyone agrees that we do it. If some of us claim and then the rest doesn't, it's not really helpful.

[2.71828.....]

I'm ok with draft order claim if the majority is.

NOT ON PENNY'S BOAT.

Be ok with it, and do it. Or don't be ok with it, and don't do it. Pretending that the majority of players always knows whay is best is silly

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Well, yes, that works fine, assuming everyone agrees that we do it. If some of us claim and then the rest doesn't, it's not really helpful.

If some of us do it, then there will be clear obvious gaps that the, hopefully minority, will either be forced to back fill for us, or risk getting lynched. That information isn't worth getting lynched for if you are town so we would only be lynching mafia

Perfect world and all, but I like it.

[LaLight]

I am №14

[2.71828.....]

Well, yes, that works fine, assuming everyone agrees that we do it. If some of us claim and then the rest doesn't, it's not really helpful.

If some of us do it, then there will be clear obvious gaps that the, hopefully minority, will either be forced to back fill for us, or risk getting lynched. That information isn't worth getting lynched for if you are town so we would only be lynching mafia

Perfect world and all, but I like it.

No, no, no. I will not participate in lynching anyone simply because they refuse to claim. Threats of "claim or be lynched" are terrible. Each player should do what they are convinced is the right thing to do

[LaLight]

I also think that massclaim may as well be profitable

[ashersky]

I prefer mass claim to draft order claim.

What does a mass claim give us that a draft claim does not?

Lots of info, forces scum to tell truth or lie, etc.  We could at the very least figure what may or may not be in play.

You'd need VTs to claim what slot they requested, too.  I mean, it's a lot of info, it's one of those things we always discuss but never do, etc.

The thing I would wonder is would a mass claim where all townies tell the truth and all scum do whatever helps themselves the most result in too much of a boon for scum.  I'm not sure it does.

[2.71828.....]

I prefer mass claim to draft order claim.

What does a mass claim give us that a draft claim does not?

Lots of info, forces scum to tell truth or lie, etc.  We could at the very least figure what may or may not be in play.

You'd need VTs to claim what slot they requested, too.  I mean, it's a lot of info, it's one of those things we always discuss but never do, etc.

The thing I would wonder is would a mass claim where all townies tell the truth and all scum do whatever helps themselves the most result in too much of a boon for scum.  I'm not sure it does.

I am down for this.

[Eevee]

I'm ok with draft order claim if the majority is.

NOT ON PENNY'S BOAT.

Be ok with it, and do it. Or don't be ok with it, and don't do it. Pretending that the majority of players always knows whay is best is silly

Is it useful if not everyone participates? Wouldn't we just get the negatives without the positives in that case?

I don't really have an opinion, it's not something I would analyze now and I don't know how helpful it would be later. But I'm also not on the other side of categorically opposing it for similar reasons.

So, in if everyone is doing it. Hopefully the hivemind reaches the right conclusion for town.

[Witherweaver]

I think I'm okay with claiming. 

[faust]

Lots of info, forces scum to tell truth or lie, etc.

Anythin forces scum to tell the truth or lie. I can ask "Are you scum?" and scum is forced to tell the truth or lie. That's not helpful.

We could at the very least figure what may or may not be in play.

So could scum. And they can do a whole lot more with the information.

it's one of those things we always discuss but never do, etc.

The reason we never do it is that it's usually bad.

The thing I would wonder is would a mass claim where all townies tell the truth and all scum do whatever helps themselves the most result in too much of a boon for scum.  I'm not sure it does.

Well scum can pretty certainly deal with all our investigative roles before they pose any real threat. They can avoid a Bomb and a 1-shot Kill Proof. I'm not sure how valuable the information we get is; scum should have safe fakeclaims mostly (depeding on Barracks), and once our PRs are outed, we have no way of figuring out who's lying.

[Witherweaver]

Lots of info, forces scum to tell truth or lie, etc.

Anythin forces scum to tell the truth or lie. I can ask "Are you scum?" and scum is forced to tell the truth or lie. That's not helpful.

This sounds a bit purposefully argumentative.  Claiming is a bigger issue, as they're much more accountable to their potential lie.

[ashersky]

Faust makes good points.  I mean, the idea behind a mass claim is trading all our power roles for the possible outing of scum based on lies.  That requires absolute truth from town and perception of the imperfection of even provided fakeclaims.

We've never tested it, probably never will.

[Witherweaver]

I'm pretty sure we've massclaimed at the beginning Day 1 before, in some RMM game.  Maybe one with Yuma?

Also that one Dominion Card game, which was arguably setup breaking.

[ashersky]

I'm pretty sure we've massclaimed at the beginning Day 1 before, in some RMM game.  Maybe one with Yuma?

Also that one Dominion Card game, which was arguably setup breaking.

The one where I was scum and I proposed the scum-defeating plan?  Yeah.

[Witherweaver]

I'm pretty sure we've massclaimed at the beginning Day 1 before, in some RMM game.  Maybe one with Yuma?

Also that one Dominion Card game, which was arguably setup breaking.

The one where I was scum and I proposed the scum-defeating plan?  Yeah.

Yes.  I think we also did it some other time as well.

[Teproc]

Looks like we have a consensus for draft claiming minus ash. I know everyone hasn't actually expressed approval, but enough people have, so let's get it out of the way now.

I was #9.

Don't like actual massclaiming though. And we're not going to do it, so let's stop talking abuot it ? i realize that's a self-fulfilling prophecy, but you know.

LaLight, did you truthfully believe that PRs were ICs in this setup ?

[LaLight]

Looks like we have a consensus for draft claiming minus ash. I know everyone hasn't actually expressed approval, but enough people have, so let's get it out of the way now.

I was #9.

Don't like actual massclaiming though. And we're not going to do it, so let's stop talking abuot it ? i realize that's a self-fulfilling prophecy, but you know.

LaLight, did you truthfully believe that PRs were ICs in this setup ?

ugh well, you alrreadyy called me dumb and yeah, I was dumb enough to think so. I mean when the game was opened I was already going to go to sleep with a high temperature, so it was like half of my brain working but I wanted to be the first to post

[Eevee]

I was #16

[2.71828.....]

I'm pretty sure we've massclaimed at the beginning Day 1 before, in some RMM game.  Maybe one with Yuma?

Also that one Dominion Card game, which was arguably setup breaking.

The one where I was scum and I proposed the scum-defeating plan?  Yeah.

Yeah. That one. I was scum with you. It was a great plan