So y the way I am looking for a co mod and may or may not be implementing a twist which I keep planning on doing then deciding not to last minute
When do you think this will start? I might be in on this one.
When do you think this will start? I might be in on this one.
I've never played Mafia before, but I want to get started. Is this game for more experienced players?
And, if I have some questions, should I just PM the Moderator?
Sweet. Then I guess
/in
I'll definitely be reading over everything as much as I can.
This should be awesome!
I've been reading over XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia. But I agree that it would probably be good to read over a similar game. I'll be checking out your link for sure.
And thanks for the greeting! I get the feeling this game is going to be pretty sick.
I've been reading over XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia. But I agree that it would probably be good to read over a similar game. I'll be checking out your link for sure.
And thanks for the greeting! I get the feeling this game is going to be pretty sick.
Oh, that's a great game. You'll get the gist of things.
When do you think this will start? I might be in on this one.
He's back! My infuriating werewolf partner! :)
I've never played Mafia before, but I want to get started. Is this game for more experienced players?
And, if I have some questions, should I just PM the Moderator?
I've been reading over the link you sent me to the first Mafia MXXXII: Dynasty Warriors Mafia.
And I think I'm getting more of a feeling for the game, and the players involved: many of which are also playing in this game.
This should be very interesting. . .
Looking forward to it.
ok quick question.PPE: Pre-Post Edit.
In reading over the first Dynasty Warriors Mafia, I see you guys using "PPE" a lot.
I looked it up on the internet, but couldn't find anything that made sense.
So what exactly does this mean?
Thanks! These are very helpful.
The last one is taken from Princess Bride I'm assuming?
Love that movie.
Alright, no idea what the flavour is, will try to take a look at the previous one. /in
Alright, no idea what the flavour is, will try to take a look at the previous one. /in
It's ok - last time we couldn't claim it!
I've been reading over the link you sent me to the first Mafia MXXXII: Dynasty Warriors Mafia.
And I think I'm getting more of a feeling for the game, and the players involved: many of which are also playing in this game.
This should be very interesting. . .
Looking forward to it.
All you need to know is vote: Robz.
I've been reading over the link you sent me to the first Mafia MXXXII: Dynasty Warriors Mafia.
And I think I'm getting more of a feeling for the game, and the players involved: many of which are also playing in this game.
This should be very interesting. . .
Looking forward to it.
All you need to know is vote: Robz.
Don't forget to vote: sudgy
I've been reading over the link you sent me to the first Mafia MXXXII: Dynasty Warriors Mafia.
And I think I'm getting more of a feeling for the game, and the players involved: many of which are also playing in this game.
This should be very interesting. . .
Looking forward to it.
All you need to know is vote: Robz.
Don't forget to vote: sudgy
OMGUS Vote: chairs[b/]
I've been reading over the link you sent me to the first Mafia MXXXII: Dynasty Warriors Mafia.
And I think I'm getting more of a feeling for the game, and the players involved: many of which are also playing in this game.
This should be very interesting. . .
Looking forward to it.
All you need to know is vote: Robz.
Don't forget to vote: sudgy
OMGUS Vote: chairs[b/]
Are you afraid I'm voting you for all the wrong reasons?
Rvs hasn't started yet, guys...vote: lekkit
I've been reading over the link you sent me to the first Mafia MXXXII: Dynasty Warriors Mafia.
And I think I'm getting more of a feeling for the game, and the players involved: many of which are also playing in this game.
This should be very interesting. . .
Looking forward to it.
All you need to know is vote: Robz.
Don't forget to vote: sudgy
OMGUS Vote: chairs[b/]
Are you afraid I'm voting you for all the wrong reasons?
...Why are you voting me?
I've been reading over the link you sent me to the first Mafia MXXXII: Dynasty Warriors Mafia.
And I think I'm getting more of a feeling for the game, and the players involved: many of which are also playing in this game.
This should be very interesting. . .
Looking forward to it.
All you need to know is vote: Robz.
Don't forget to vote: sudgy
OMGUS Vote: chairs[b/]
Are you afraid I'm voting you for all the wrong reasons?
...Why are you voting me?
Because you're the SK.
See further set-up and deadline information in Post 2.
See further set-up and deadline information in Post 2.
I assume it will be similar to what is posted on the mafiascum wiki for JK9++ (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=JK9%2B%2B)?
Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back /in.
/in
Hey, whats up Everybody?
Im newto the forum, and am here mainly for mafia, although this is my first game :)
yellow spotted lizards and onion juice anyone?
yellow spotted lizards and onion juice anyone?
Claiming both role, and flavor will be allowed this game. Flavor does follow logically the events of Dynasty Warriors.
The later the better for me, generically speaking, but don't delay the game because of me!But it's been too long!
but don't delay the game because of me!
Claiming both role, and flavor will be allowed this game. Flavor does follow logically the events of Dynasty Warriors.
If this is true, will scum have fake claims?
I also have finals next week.
Start it immediately! Tonight!Listen to the man!
(http://s23.postimg.org/dgr9mh3ef/image.jpg?noCache=1380943638)
Working on it, if everyone is okay with a quick day 1(7 IRL days) I can have PM's out within an hour and start midday tomorrow.
Working on it, if everyone is okay with a quick day 1(7 IRL days) I can have PM's out within an hour and start midday tomorrow.
Huzzah! But I would suggest letting mafia have more than 1/2 day for talking... Some might not even be aware they were mafia in that time period and miss the night0 talk.
I also have finals next week.
Same here. But I am also really eager to start this game. So maybe it'll start just a little bit slower than normal?
Even with finals, I'm still going to have a fair amount of time.
So how exactly does flavor claiming work? Does that just mean that when we claim we can also claim flavor (names, etc)?
I understand exactly nothing in this post. This should be fun.
That sounds.. very hard for scum that doesn't know the show (game?).
That sounds.. very hard for scum that doesn't know the show (game?).
That sounds.. very hard for scum that doesn't know the show (game?).
Yeah, that's my concern. If they don't have provided fake claims, they'll have to claim someone obscure (suspicious) or obviously town (risk that the flavor was assigned to someone town). The game could be broken by a flavor claim D1.
Don't we have the same problem as in C9++ that mass claiming D1 doesn't work?
Don't we have the same problem as in C9++ that mass claiming D1 doesn't work?
Maybe, but I'm more talking about the fact that flavor relates to alignment and it seems like mafia may not have been given fake claims?
I think the fake claim is in thread, no?
Also, massclaim and win? I don't see how mafia can claim any role but VT, and they might have trouble claiming a town alignment too. Point it out if there is something I'm not seeing.say what? I need to reread the setup if you think this works.
That sounds.. very hard for scum that doesn't know the show (game?).
Jeez people, everything will be explained.
Pm's are going out, and hopefully you learned from last time don't freak out when you get a colored Pm, The Battle of the Red Cliffs is the showdown between the massive Wei army(Bad Guys!), against the combined forces of the Wu naval fleet(Good Guys!) and some Shu officers(also good guys!)
Also, massclaim and win? I don't see how mafia can claim any role but VT, and they might have trouble claiming a town alignment too. Point it out if there is something I'm not seeing.say what? I need to reread the setup if you think this works.
That sounds.. very hard for scum that doesn't know the show (game?).
Jeez people, everything will be explained.
Pm's are going out, and hopefully you learned from last time don't freak out when you get a colored Pm, The Battle of the Red Cliffs is the showdown between the massive Wei army(Bad Guys!), against the combined forces of the Wu naval fleet(Good Guys!) and some Shu officers(also good guys!)
I thought this was the fake claim info, plus a no face post later.
All before PMs.
Seriously, we're already talking about massclaiming ?
I'm probably against it, I'll think about it some more. Flavour claim seems pointless, this is a normal game after all, but whatever, I guess it can get discussion started.
Did flavour matter in the last iteration of this game ?
Claiming both role, and flavor will be allowed this game. Flavor does follow logically the events of Dynasty Warriors.
If this is true, will scum have fake claims?
Scum will have what I give them, you will not know what that is, though I can say that information will be given to everyone.
This is starting up at a really bad time for me, unfortunately. Don't expect much from me this week.
I just skimmed the posts so far. I think we could kingdom claim at least. Flavor claim possibly but I need to think about this. Wait, that's just straight up outing PRs, right?
Additionally I know a ton about the flavor for this game. I can do like a big explanation of what happened in the Battle of the Red Cliffs if that's helpful. But not like until tonight at the earliest.
This is starting up at a really bad time for me, unfortunately. Don't expect much from me this week.
I just skimmed the posts so far. I think we could kingdom claim at least. Flavor claim possibly but I need to think about this. Wait, that's just straight up outing PRs, right?
I don't think so? Would it be? You know the flavor way more than everyone else. If it is, it should out scum too right?
Oh! But they don't know who to say they are instead . Yes, mass claim immediately
Oh! But they don't know who to say they are instead . Yes, mass claim immediately
I think you guys have low confidence in mcmcs's ability to mod a game if you think a mass flavour claim will out scum. It seems more likely to help scum find PRs to me now that I think of it.
Oh! But they don't know who to say they are instead . Yes, mass claim immediately
Oh! But they don't know who to say they are instead . Yes, mass claim immediately
Are we already so sold this is a good idea? Based on my read of the setup, anybody who actually has a name to claim is a PR.
Wait, what ? We haven't reached an agreement yet !
Let's try this.
I'm Zhang Fei. Does that help anyone figure anything out about how flavor claiming will help us catch scum?
Based on my read of the setup, anybody who actually has a name to claim is a PR.
Let's try this.
I'm Zhang Fei. Does that help anyone figure anything out about how flavor claiming will help us catch scum?
Based on my read of the setup, anybody who actually has a name to claim is a PR.
The "No Face" is just to remind people that's the flavor for VT (same as last game) I assume.
I have not. I'm sure it's hilarious.
So how exactly does flavor claiming work? Does that just mean that when we claim we can also claim flavor (names, etc)?
Yes it means if you want you can claim to be Meng Huo of the Nanaman Clan. That would be silly because he has no business being anywhere near Chi Bi but you know you could say that. Flavor will relate directly to alignment so heads up, don't claim Cao Cao
Didn't you say the same thing ?
Just wait for the PM's and Night one info then if ya got stuff to cry about message me!
The point is, ash was a PR and claimed immediately. If he's a PR here, he knows revealing his flavor risks revealing that, so he's comfortable with it.
The point is, ash was a PR and claimed immediately. If he's a PR here, he knows revealing his flavor risks revealing that, so he's comfortable with it.
In DW1, I knew the set-up like the back of my hand, and with the IC, I knew claiming my role there was going to help (and it did).
I'm not claiming PR/Not PR right now. Just willing to out my flavor name to see if it helps us decide if everyone should do it.
I don't know Dynasty Warriors, so mass-claiming flavor names will not really help me. However, it could be really useful to certain PR town members (Robz?) as they make decisions for night actions. I like flavor name claiming.
I am Zhuge Liang
The point is, ash was a PR and claimed immediately. If he's a PR here, he knows revealing his flavor risks revealing that, so he's comfortable with it.
In DW1, I knew the set-up like the back of my hand, and with the IC, I knew claiming my role there was going to help (and it did).
I don't know Dynasty Warriors, so mass-claiming flavor names will not really help me. However, it could be really useful to certain PR town members (Robz?) as they make decisions for night actions. I like flavor name claiming.
I don't know Dynasty Warriors, so mass-claiming flavor names will not really help me. However, it could be really useful to certain PR town members (Robz?) as they make decisions for night actions. I like flavor name claiming.
Or, you know, certain scum.
No, he wouldn't. But it might inform their decision a little more.I don't know Dynasty Warriors, so mass-claiming flavor names will not really help me. However, it could be really useful to certain PR town members (Robz?) as they make decisions for night actions. I like flavor name claiming.
Or, you know, certain scum.
How? We're not playing a variant, it's not like the Bus Driver would need to know the flavor names of each player.
I think the point is, if Robz is scum he could know someone is a PR and tell us he's town ?
I'm really worried about that. Does no one else know Dynasty Warriors at all ? Having one source only is very dangerous, and a big part of the reason we should not flavour/name claim at all I think.
All the warriors gathered should be receiving battle instructions soon. These instruction's will inform you of your Kingdom(Alignment), Name(Flavor), and Role. The game developers have been quite busy working on Dynasty Warriors UltimaXtremeEsNumeroUnolegends 5... so some characters will be using a generic stock model. These are known as No Face Officers(Vanilla Townie)JK9++ is a setup with a variable amount of town PRs. Just because someone has a name that may be "powerful" in the story does not mean it will be a PR. I think what I bolded here seems to imply that "face" and "no-face" officers will not be able to be distinguished due to flavor name.
All the warriors gathered should be receiving battle instructions soon. These instruction's will inform you of your Kingdom(Alignment), Name(Flavor), and Role. The game developers have been quite busy working on Dynasty Warriors UltimaXtremeEsNumeroUnolegends 5... so some characters will be using a generic stock model. These are known as No Face Officers(Vanilla Townie)JK9++ is a setup with a variable amount of town PRs. Just because someone has a name that may be "powerful" in the story does not mean it will be a PR. I think what I bolded here seems to imply that "face" and "no-face" officers will not be able to be distinguished due to flavor name.
All the warriors gathered should be receiving battle instructions soon. These instruction's will inform you of your Kingdom(Alignment), Name(Flavor), and Role. The game developers have been quite busy working on Dynasty Warriors UltimaXtremeEsNumeroUnolegends 5... so some characters will be using a generic stock model. These are known as No Face Officers(Vanilla Townie)JK9++ is a setup with a variable amount of town PRs. Just because someone has a name that may be "powerful" in the story does not mean it will be a PR. I think what I bolded here seems to imply that "face" and "no-face" officers will not be able to be distinguished due to flavor name.
Unless it's something you can't / don't want to share yet.
I think the point is, if Robz is scum he could know someone is a PR and tell us he's town ?
I'm really worried about that. Does no one else know Dynasty Warriors at all ? Having one source only is very dangerous, and a big part of the reason we should not flavour/name claim at all I think.
That's why I asked if there's a wiki with a list of who the Face Officers and No-Face Officers are. Because I went to ash's name's page and it doesn't say he's face or no-face, so I'm quite confused.
Also, I do think I want to vote: chairs.
I think the danger in outing PRs is that scum then knows who the PRs are. And then they can kill them at night.
That is the danger in flavor claiming.
The flip side is if it outs scum, or puts scum in a small lynch pool we can kill off a day at a time, it may not matter who our PRs are.
I think the point is, if Robz is scum he could know someone is a PR and tell us he's town ?
I'm really worried about that. Does no one else know Dynasty Warriors at all ? Having one source only is very dangerous, and a big part of the reason we should not flavour/name claim at all I think.
That's why I asked if there's a wiki with a list of who the Face Officers and No-Face Officers are. Because I went to ash's name's page and it doesn't say he's face or no-face, so I'm quite confused.
Also, I do think I want to vote: chairs.
Please see my most recent statement. "no face officers" are literally just "generic officer A" - people without a special face - or at least that's my impression of the data provided to us. I believe that claiming names outs our PRs, albeit with the potential that we can WIFOM with scum regarding whether they claim No Face or a named officer.
PPE:I think the danger in outing PRs is that scum then knows who the PRs are. And then they can kill them at night.
That is the danger in flavor claiming.
The flip side is if it outs scum, or puts scum in a small lynch pool we can kill off a day at a time, it may not matter who our PRs are.
My concern is that I don't think the lynch pool will be sufficiently small, and we have to WIFOM whether scum will claim VT (by claiming No Face) or PR (by providing a name).
Again, my interpretation is that "No Face" and "no name" are not the same thing.I agree.
I think the point is, if Robz is scum he could know someone is a PR and tell us he's town ?
I'm really worried about that. Does no one else know Dynasty Warriors at all ? Having one source only is very dangerous, and a big part of the reason we should not flavour/name claim at all I think.
That's why I asked if there's a wiki with a list of who the Face Officers and No-Face Officers are. Because I went to ash's name's page and it doesn't say he's face or no-face, so I'm quite confused.
Also, I do think I want to vote: chairs.
Please see my most recent statement. "no face officers" are literally just "generic officer A" - people without a special face - or at least that's my impression of the data provided to us. I believe that claiming names outs our PRs, albeit with the potential that we can WIFOM with scum regarding whether they claim No Face or a named officer.
PPE:I think the danger in outing PRs is that scum then knows who the PRs are. And then they can kill them at night.
That is the danger in flavor claiming.
The flip side is if it outs scum, or puts scum in a small lynch pool we can kill off a day at a time, it may not matter who our PRs are.
My concern is that I don't think the lynch pool will be sufficiently small, and we have to WIFOM whether scum will claim VT (by claiming No Face) or PR (by providing a name).
Again, my interpretation is that "No Face" and "no name" are not the same thing.
What makes me scummy ?
Ok. That's not my only reason to be against it though. The other one is that I have trouble seeing a scenario where flavour claiming is good for town without being broken. There probably is, but I just don't see it myself.
This game will be run as a straight up JK9++
Days Will last roughly 10 days each and Night will last roughly 2 days.
Claiming both role, and flavor will be allowed this game. Flavor does follow logically the events of Dynasty Warriors.
I also have finals next week.
Same here. But I am also really eager to start this game. So maybe it'll start just a little bit slower than normal?
Even with finals, I'm still going to have a fair amount of time.
So how exactly does flavor claiming work? Does that just mean that when we claim we can also claim flavor (names, etc)?
Yes it means if you want you can claim to be Meng Huo of the Nanaman Clan. That would be silly because he has no business being anywhere near Chi Bi but you know you could say that. Flavor will relate directly to alignment so heads up, don't claim Cao Cao
Basically, it reads to me like flavor will help with alignments, but not too much because flavor will not logically follow the events of Dynasty Warriors.
ohBasically, it reads to me like flavor will help with alignments, but not too much because flavor will not logically follow the events of Dynasty Warriors.
How do you come to that conclusion? It's literally the exact opposite of what you quoted.
I will say, I have to imagine all players in the game have a flavor NAME they can claim. I mean, we were all provided with names in the last one, and I think mcmc loves the flavor too much to NOT assign names.
I will say, I have to imagine all players in the game have a flavor NAME they can claim. I mean, we were all provided with names in the last one, and I think mcmc loves the flavor too much to NOT assign names.
What's your read on chairs?
I will say, I have to imagine all players in the game have a flavor NAME they can claim. I mean, we were all provided with names in the last one, and I think mcmc loves the flavor too much to NOT assign names.
What's your read on chairs?
unvote for sure. Chairs is 99% town I am thinking.vote: Voltaire too many town reads so early in the game.
I will say, I have to imagine all players in the game have a flavor NAME they can claim. I mean, we were all provided with names in the last one, and I think mcmc loves the flavor too much to NOT assign names.
What's your read on chairs?
In all seriousness, top scum read, along with Teproc. Hesitance/fear of the claiming TALK, even before the claiming, is a scum tell.
I mean, hardcore NO WAY BAD IDEA would have been fine. But the "hmm, hrmmm, plrbst" stuff looks bad, like fear.
well dang. All this and I haven't even posted yet... and I doubt I'm alone in that. How many people haven't posted yet and we already have potential strong reads on people based on flavor claims?
I really doubt that flavor claiming could give us a positive benefit. I mean, the whole point of flavor is that it's unrelated to the real game, right? I'll gladly flavor claim if it does indeed give us a benefit, but if this is the case I think it pretty much goes against the idea of the game and isn't really what I signed up for.
unvote for sure. Chairs is 99% town I am thinking.vote: Voltaire too many town reads so early in the game.
that's what I meant. And those reads are even necessarily bad to have at this point, I might agree with them (not entirely caught up yet)well dang. All this and I haven't even posted yet... and I doubt I'm alone in that. How many people haven't posted yet and we already have potential strong reads on people based on flavor claims?
I really doubt that flavor claiming could give us a positive benefit. I mean, the whole point of flavor is that it's unrelated to the real game, right? I'll gladly flavor claim if it does indeed give us a benefit, but if this is the case I think it pretty much goes against the idea of the game and isn't really what I signed up for.
I have no reads based on flavor claims! I don't think anyone does! I have strong reads based on how people have reacted/talked about flavor claims. FoS: liopoil.
In my opinion chairs has committed a town!slip. Or a scum!slip. So probably a town!slip. The trick is it's one of those "it hurts town to explain why" situations.
Yes, just wanting to get down a semi serious vote for now.unvote for sure. Chairs is 99% town I am thinking.vote: Voltaire too many town reads so early in the game.
Have you read all my posts?
In my opinion chairs has committed a town!slip. Or a scum!slip. So probably a town!slip. The trick is it's one of those "it hurts town to explain why" situations.
Time for a rage vote Voltaire. Scumslip talk? You hate scumslips. Is yuma here? Holy crap. Ha!
In my opinion chairs has committed a town!slip. Or a scum!slip. So probably a town!slip. The trick is it's one of those "it hurts town to explain why" situations.
Time for a rage vote Voltaire. Scumslip talk? You hate scumslips. Is yuma here? Holy crap. Ha!
Yeah, so it's clearly not a scum!slip. The last sentence is the part that matters. How insane/risky are we comfortable with me being? It's probably not worth it.
In my opinion chairs has committed a town!slip. Or a scum!slip. So probably a town!slip. The trick is it's one of those "it hurts town to explain why" situations.
Time for a rage vote Voltaire. Scumslip talk? You hate scumslips. Is yuma here? Holy crap. Ha!
Yeah, so it's clearly not a scum!slip. The last sentence is the part that matters. How insane/risky are we comfortable with me being? It's probably not worth it.
This early in the game? Definitely worth keeping things under wraps. Later in the game, more info is better for the town.
well dang. All this and I haven't even posted yet... and I doubt I'm alone in that.
If the claim does nothing, why does it matter who was for or against it ?So it's possible that flavor could reveal whether you're a PR or not? As I said, I know absolutely nothing about the flavor. But I could just look up names on the dynasty warriors wiki or something. If scum has been provided with fake flavor names, then claiming doesn't really get town anything, does it? And it seems that options 1 and 3 would skew the game somewhat.
The way I see it :
- scum doesn't have any fake claim. We massclaim names and we win. This has a 0% chance to happen because the game would just be stupid if it were the case
- scum does have fake claims. PRs and VTs are undistinguishable. This gives us nothing. I fail to see how it would be relevant to see who is for or against it if the claiming accomplishes nothing.
- scum does have fake claims. PRs and VTs are recognizable. Yay, we just outed PRs !
I think the second option is by far the most likely, and I don't see the point of it. Since there is a risk that the third option is a thing, I'm against it, and I assume scum would be in favor (which is not to say I assume everyone in favor would be scum).
So it's possible that flavor could reveal whether you're a PR or not? As I said, I know absolutely nothing about the flavor. But I could just look up names on the dynasty warriors wiki or something. If scum has been provided with fake flavor names, then claiming doesn't really get town anything, does it? And it seems that options 1 and 3 would skew the game somewhat.
Sorry, just really confused about the whole flavor thing.
So it's possible that flavor could reveal whether you're a PR or not? As I said, I know absolutely nothing about the flavor. But I could just look up names on the dynasty warriors wiki or something. If scum has been provided with fake flavor names, then claiming doesn't really get town anything, does it? And it seems that options 1 and 3 would skew the game somewhat.
Sorry, just really confused about the whole flavor thing.
This is exactly what I meant. I'm still waiting for the pro-claim people to explain to me why this line of reasoning is wrong.
This early in the game? Definitely worth keeping things under wraps. Later in the game, more info is better for the town.
Since when is this how ashersky plays? vote: ashersky.
This early in the game? Definitely worth keeping things under wraps. Later in the game, more info is better for the town.
Since when is this how ashersky plays? vote: ashersky.
RVS, I assume.
Since when is it possible to define how I play?
vote: ichimaru
If the claim does nothing, why does it matter who was for or against it ?
The way I see it :
- scum doesn't have any fake claim. We massclaim names and we win. This has a 0% chance to happen because the game would just be stupid if it were the case
- scum does have fake claims. PRs and VTs are undistinguishable. This gives us nothing. I fail to see how it would be relevant to see who is for or against it if the claiming accomplishes nothing.
- scum does have fake claims. PRs and VTs are recognizable. Yay, we just outed PRs !
I think the second option is by far the most likely, and I don't see the point of it. Since there is a risk that the third option is a thing, I'm against it, and I assume scum would be in favor (which is not to say I assume everyone in favor would be scum).
Option 1- Unlikely, but not out of the question. Scum would want to make it seem totally ridiculous. Town would be likely to believe them so totally discrediting this option is easy for scum.So it's possible that flavor could reveal whether you're a PR or not? As I said, I know absolutely nothing about the flavor. But I could just look up names on the dynasty warriors wiki or something. If scum has been provided with fake flavor names, then claiming doesn't really get town anything, does it? And it seems that options 1 and 3 would skew the game somewhat.
Sorry, just really confused about the whole flavor thing.
This is exactly what I meant. I'm still waiting for the pro-claim people to explain to me why this line of reasoning is wrong.
I believe he made it unclear to make it a strategic possibility for scum to trick town into massclaiming flavour.He might have left it ambiguous because he did not give scum fakeclaims, making it a strategic possibility for town to attempt a claim, but forcing scum to fight it.
Voting the person you yourself mentioned might be a possible town PR? Awesome.
See, I just don't think these are the same things. Having this as a strategical possibility for scum is fine because town doesn't outright lose the game if scum convinces them to out their PRs. Having it as a strategical possibility for town is not fine because scum would just lose on the spot.What I describe as option 3 does look similar to 2 because I do not believe that PRs will be outed. PRs can only be outed with a role claim. Which we are not doing. We are claiming flavor names. Which helps with alignment. Not with PRs. And there is serious WIFOM with pretty much any info that goes out. Flavor, role, anything. Not until we have heard data to analyze on that person (read: they are dead) can we truly learn anything about their early stances. So when I flip town (in the off chance that I die on D3 or N3 for example) there will be something for you to look at.Which helps town. And when you flip scum (say on D1 or N1) we will learn something from your refusal to claim.
So, the way you see option 3 is that the info would still be very vague ? I'm not sure I completely understand what you're saying, because what you're describing looks a lot like option 2 to me, functionnally.
And if it's option 2, who was for or against the claim is irrelevant. Wait, actually it wouldn't, scum would be in favor (slight chance of outing PRs) and town would be against (slight chance of outing PRs, no chance of outing scum).
So yeah, let's do it and lynch Voltaire, ashersky and 2.7. Game over.*
*This is not serious. I think there's some huge WIFOM which makes it pretty impossible to get anything out of people pro or anti-claiming position in option 2, because not all scum would be pushing for it, and some town would be pushing against it because people are wrong sometimes.
See, I just don't think these are the same things. Having this as a strategical possibility for scum is fine because town doesn't outright lose the game if scum convinces them to out their PRs. Having it as a strategical possibility for town is not fine because scum would just lose on the spot.What I describe as option 3 does look similar to 2 because I do not believe that PRs will be outed. PRs can only be outed with a role claim. Which we are not doing. We are claiming flavor names. Which helps with alignment. Not with PRs. And there is serious WIFOM with pretty much any info that goes out. Flavor, role, anything. Not until we have heard data to analyze on that person (read: they are dead) can we truly learn anything about their early stances. So when I flip town (in the off chance that I die on D3 or N3 for example) there will be something for you to look at.Which helps town. And when you flip scum (say on D1 or N1) we will learn something from your refusal to claim.
So, the way you see option 3 is that the info would still be very vague ? I'm not sure I completely understand what you're saying, because what you're describing looks a lot like option 2 to me, functionnally.
And if it's option 2, who was for or against the claim is irrelevant. Wait, actually it wouldn't, scum would be in favor (slight chance of outing PRs) and town would be against (slight chance of outing PRs, no chance of outing scum).
So yeah, let's do it and lynch Voltaire, ashersky and 2.7. Game over.*
*This is not serious. I think there's some huge WIFOM which makes it pretty impossible to get anything out of people pro or anti-claiming position in option 2, because not all scum would be pushing for it, and some town would be pushing against it because people are wrong sometimes.
I really doubt that flavor claiming could give us a positive benefit. I mean, the whole point of flavor is that it's unrelated to the real game, right? I'll gladly flavor claim if it does indeed give us a benefit, but if this is the case I think it pretty much goes against the idea of the game and isn't really what I signed up for.
vote: Ashersky
teproc is making sense, so he is slightly scummier than e I guess.um.... he makes sense, so he's scummier? Please explain.
teproc is making sense, so he is slightly scummier than e I guess.um.... he makes sense, so he's scummier? Please explain.
why does him voting for you make you want to vote for him?
I needed to get off my rvs chairs vote.
well, for one, if I decide to actually vote chairs then I would want to unvote then revote just to show I actually meant my vote. And I don't want to get anyone confused by vote counts that would have me voting chairs seeing as how I have had some civilized discussion with him.I needed to get off my rvs chairs vote.
Why?
I'm still quite confused, and mcmc's clarification has not improved this.
Mcmc, are you saying that all no-face officers are VTs? Thus, face officers are VTs? Zhang Fei (ashersky) and Zhuge Liang (2.7) are both face officers. So they are both PRs? So confused.
A face officer is someone with a unique avatar in the Dynasty Warriors series. A no-face officer is someone who does not have a unique avatar.
I think the best way for all of you to quickly know whether someone is a "face-officer" or not officially is to check the DW7 wiki page, which lists all unique avatar officers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty_Warriors_7
I'm still quite confused, and mcmc's clarification has not improved this.
Mcmc, are you saying that all no-face officers are VTs? Thus, face officers are VTs? Zhang Fei (ashersky) and Zhuge Liang (2.7) are both face officers. So they are both PRs? So confused.A face officer is someone with a unique avatar in the Dynasty Warriors series. A no-face officer is someone who does not have a unique avatar.
I think the best way for all of you to quickly know whether someone is a "face-officer" or not officially is to check the DW7 wiki page, which lists all unique avatar officers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty_Warriors_7
"No Face Officer" means "Vanilla Townie" as I have now said 3 times. "No face officer" does not mean "Not a Playable Character in the game series"
I will not be claiming anything under any circumstance except to counterclaim or maybe at L-1.
Well, okay, but can you point where my logic is wrong?
It creates a possibility of ousting PRs. More than the possibility of ousting scum, to me. Therefore, I will not support claiming.
We're playing the game we're playing, yuma. This is very unlike you.
We're playing the game we're playing, yuma. This is very unlike you.
How so? Name one game where I have ever said claiming was something we should do day1.
We're playing the game we're playing, yuma. This is very unlike you.
How so? Name one game where I have ever said claiming was something we should do day1.
We're playing the game we're playing, yuma. This is very unlike you.
How so? Name one game where I have ever said claiming was something we should do day1.
No, I know you are generally against claiming, but I thought that was for strategic reasons--it's often bad--rather than moral reasons.
We're playing the game we're playing, yuma. This is very unlike you.
How so? Name one game where I have ever said claiming was something we should do day1.
Claiming Mafia XII: Claim to Win! is one off the top of my head.
We're playing the game we're playing, yuma. This is very unlike you.
How so? Name one game where I have ever said claiming was something we should do day1.
No, I know you are generally against claiming, but I thought that was for strategic reasons--it's often bad--rather than moral reasons.
The flavor was left ambiguous to force mafia and town to make interesting decisions involving claiming and finding scum/pr's I am sick of explaining every little piece. I have given all information people need multiple times...
This is an invented game that acts almost entirely like a normal game, if you don't like it /out and I will find you a replacement
Also, vote: ashersky.
That guy is always scum. I mean, in the last game I played with him, he was scum twice!
But seriously: Ashersky flavor-claimed before we knew whether VTs had flavor names. This probably means one of two things:
1) ash himself is a VT, so he already knew. In that case, he's an okay mislynch.
2) ash is scum and had a fake claim provided. In that case, lynch him!
Also, vote: ashersky.
That guy is always scum. I mean, in the last game I played with him, he was scum twice!
But seriously: Ashersky flavor-claimed before we knew whether VTs had flavor names. This probably means one of two things:
1) ash himself is a VT, so he already knew. In that case, he's an okay mislynch.
2) ash is scum and had a fake claim provided. In that case, lynch him!
vote: faust
I am absolutely certain he is scum.
Also, looking at #1 there, looking for an "okay" mislynch already? No interest in scum hunting, I see.
faust, what do you think of e, since he prematurely flavour claimed as well ?
The position e was arguing was so controversially nonsensical, I doubt scum would have wanted to go down that road. Teproc however had an opportunity to be right and increase his activity in an easy way.teproc is making sense, so he is slightly scummier than e I guess.um.... he makes sense, so he's scummier? Please explain.
Hey, I was right about mail-mi ! And then I proceeded to be wrong about everything. So yeah. But let's not talk about that game, shall we ?Hey I liked that game!
Sure. I voted for Ash cause he voted for me.
I haven't had any previous experience with mafia, although I have read (all the way through) a couple of mafia games on here.
Time zone: Pacific.
I'm assuming Eevee made a mistake in his post, otherwise it would be pretty funny to see him argue that making sense is scummy. He probably meant I was NOT making sense ?
Also, vote: ashersky.
That guy is always scum. I mean, in the last game I played with him, he was scum twice!
But seriously: Ashersky flavor-claimed before we knew whether VTs had flavor names. This probably means one of two things:
1) ash himself is a VT, so he already knew. In that case, he's an okay mislynch.
2) ash is scum and had a fake claim provided. In that case, lynch him!
vote: faust
I am absolutely certain he is scum.
Also, looking at #1 there, looking for an "okay" mislynch already? No interest in scum hunting, I see.
Onm another note, I think all this talk about mass flavor-claiming severely hurt us, up to the point where I would almost policy-vote Voltaire for starting it.
In all seriousness, top scum read, along with Teproc. Hesitance/fear of the claiming TALK, even before the claiming, is a scum tell.
In all seriousness, top scum read, along with Teproc. Hesitance/fear of the claiming TALK, even before the claiming, is a scum tell.
Also, everyone should vote ash because chairs is one of his top scum reads.
Well, there's more to this setup than just flavor stuff. For example: We are likely to have a Hider. Is that going to help us? Should they claim? (It's a good claim I think, because unlike with other roles, there can't be more than one, so fakeclaiming is dangerous) I vaguely remember someone somewhere talking about some "Hider plan" that worked great in some game I didn't participate in. Are we able to pull off something like this here? Can someone who was in this game explain how that plan worked?
Well, there's more to this setup than just flavor stuff. For example: We are likely to have a Hider. Is that going to help us? Should they claim? (It's a good claim I think, because unlike with other roles, there can't be more than one, so fakeclaiming is dangerous) I vaguely remember someone somewhere talking about some "Hider plan" that worked great in some game I didn't participate in. Are we able to pull off something like this here? Can someone who was in this game explain how that plan worked?
It won't work here. It worked in Clue because of a list provided by the mod in the OP that accidentally created a flawless Hider plan. It was broken and will never happen again.
Well, there's more to this setup than just flavor stuff. For example: We are likely to have a Hider. Is that going to help us? Should they claim? (It's a good claim I think, because unlike with other roles, there can't be more than one, so fakeclaiming is dangerous) I vaguely remember someone somewhere talking about some "Hider plan" that worked great in some game I didn't participate in. Are we able to pull off something like this here? Can someone who was in this game explain how that plan worked?
It won't work here. It worked in Clue because of a list provided by the mod in the OP that accidentally created a flawless Hider plan. It was broken and will never happen again.
They don't have to hide do they ? And I don't think we get more info if they died after having claimed anyway, unless you want them to announce who they'll be hiding behind, but that seems like an awful idea.
Which only works if they don't claim. I think that was your point, correct ?
I agree in that case.
They don't have to hide do they ? And I don't think we get more info if they died after having claimed anyway, unless you want them to announce who they'll be hiding behind, but that seems like an awful idea.
It makes it super-easy for mafia to frame them, or someone else. Especially since we might have a busdriver! The trick to playing hider is to plant the seeds of who you'll hide behind, so it's obvious once you flip.
I agree with Voltaire.
How our hider, if we have one, should proceed.I agree with Voltaire.
about...?
So should we start on a PoE (for the day) list?
So should we start on a PoE (for the day) list?
How chairs gets any town reads from people at all this game astounds me. Was easily the scumminess player up until Faust posted.
How chairs gets any town reads from people at all this game astounds me. Was easily the scumminess player up until Faust posted.
What's the scum case on chairs? Just the hedging on claiming?
How chairs gets any town reads from people at all this game astounds me. Was easily the scumminess player up until Faust posted.
What's the scum case on chairs? Just the hedging on claiming?
The way he hedged on claiming. Best described as "oh shit they might claim" face.
Oh exactly is "oh shit they might claim" a scumtell ? I'm town, and that's exactly what I thought... because I thought claiming was a bad idea.
So should we start on a PoE (for the day) list?
Sure!
Here's what I propose as of right now (modify for your own personal list as you see fit):Voltaire
Robz888
mail-miChairs
AsherskyYumaIchimaru Gin
Lekkit
Liopoil
Teproc2.7
Eevee
Faust
I think that's it so far. It's very early.
Oh exactly is "oh shit they might claim" a scumtell ? I'm town, and that's exactly what I thought... because I thought claiming was a bad idea.
I noted your reaction as well. You gave reasoning and stuff, if I recall. Less "oh shit" and more "hmmm...this is bad Scoobs!" style.
Giving Ichimaru a day 1 pass because he's new?
Oh, and day 1 passes are stupid. PoE this early is also stupid. I just had that conversation in another game so I don't really want to get into it again, but I just thought I'd say it and move on. PoE comes after scumhunting, not before.agree totally. D1, we ask "Who's the scummiest?" and lynch them. Later days, we can start eliminating people for being townie, and thus making it easier to look at the few people who remain. Right now this isn't feasible because a) we have pretty much no info, and b) there's 13 suspects, no way can we get that down to a low enough number.
Maaaaybe day 1 pass for a newbie is ok from a "welcome to the community, let's not kill you immediately" perspective, but not from a in-game perspective.
Also, did PoE change meaning while I was gone?
Who were the two people who subbed in? liopoil and someone else....I sent mcmc a PM saying that I could play if I died in toy story before D1 started very shortly after he posted that he was looking for a replacement for xerses. then when I died in toy story I sent him another PM saying I could play and he sent me my role PM right away
When did you two tell mcmc that you were going to play in the game?
Lekkit is not new, he has played a few old games and ash referred to a more recent game where they were both werewolves I think.
Oh, and day 1 passes are stupid. PoE this early is also stupid. I just had that conversation in another game so I don't really want to get into it again, but I just thought I'd say it and move on. PoE comes after scumhunting, not before.
Maaaaybe day 1 pass for a newbie is ok from a "welcome to the community, let's not kill you immediately" perspective, but not from a in-game perspective.
The problem is, I don't really know how to move to scumhunting myself, I just don't have the material yet. I guess my only scum reads right now are very light and due to theory talk, so that's not great.
agree totally. D1, we ask "Who's the scummiest?" and lynch them.
Also, did PoE change meaning while I was gone?
It's always been Probability of Evisceration as far as I know.
Also, did PoE change meaning while I was gone?
It's always been Probability of Evisceration as far as I know.
Can't tell if you're being serious or not. I've always read it as process of elimination. Something that's not really happening now.
Because he has a scumread on chairs? I'm not sure you're seeing the same thing as me, but that doesn't make chairs definately town.
Mod question:
If the Hider is targeted by a Strongman kill while hiding behind someone, do they die?
Voltaire is totes right here. unvote, but you're not on my don't wanna lynch list yet. Also, agree with newbie D1 pass.agree totally. D1, we ask "Who's the scummiest?" and lynch them.
But see I think that is a terrible way to play D1, and it's why in the past f.ds usually lynches town D1 (we've gotten much better at this lately).
This his how I think you play D1: *I wanted to quote Galzria's explanation from that speccy thread, but I can't find it. Any help? You know the one I mean.*
agree totally. D1, we ask "Who's the scummiest?" and lynch them.
But see I think that is a terrible way to play D1, and it's why in the past f.ds usually lynches town D1 (we've gotten much better at this lately).
This his how I think you play D1: *I wanted to quote Galzria's explanation from that speccy thread, but I can't find it. Any help? You know the one I mean.*
Because he has a scumread on chairs? I'm not sure you're seeing the same thing as me, but that doesn't make chairs definately town.
Let's pretend we're seeing the same thing (don't say it out loud). Do you think chairs, as scum, would post what he did?
Because he has a scumread on chairs? I'm not sure you're seeing the same thing as me, but that doesn't make chairs definately town.
Let's pretend we're seeing the same thing (don't say it out loud). Do you think chairs, as scum, would post what he did?
I'm sure scum can't figure out what you guys are talking about. At all.
Because he has a scumread on chairs? I'm not sure you're seeing the same thing as me, but that doesn't make chairs definately town.
Let's pretend we're seeing the same thing (don't say it out loud). Do you think chairs, as scum, would post what he did?
I'm sure scum can't figure out what you guys are talking about. At all.
Because he has a scumread on chairs? I'm not sure you're seeing the same thing as me, but that doesn't make chairs definately town.
Let's pretend we're seeing the same thing (don't say it out loud). Do you think chairs, as scum, would post what he did?
I'm sure scum can't figure out what you guys are talking about. At all.
...would you believe that I'm not sure what they're talking about? :-[
Well, I can't. But I haven't really tried to. That's what I like to tell myself to keep the illusion that I'm smart.
chairs, how many games have you played prior to this one?
Because he has a scumread on chairs? I'm not sure you're seeing the same thing as me, but that doesn't make chairs definately town.
Let's pretend we're seeing the same thing (don't say it out loud). Do you think chairs, as scum, would post what he did?
I'm sure scum can't figure out what you guys are talking about. At all.
...would you believe that I'm not sure what they're talking about? :-[
You townslipped somewhere, according to them.
chairs, how many games have you played prior to this one?
Well, I can't. But I haven't really tried to. That's what I like to tell myself to keep the illusion that I'm smart.
Do you mean to say that you haven't looked hard at the game, or that you have but not found anything?
Because he has a scumread on chairs? I'm not sure you're seeing the same thing as me, but that doesn't make chairs definately town.
Let's pretend we're seeing the same thing (don't say it out loud). Do you think chairs, as scum, would post what he did?
I'm sure scum can't figure out what you guys are talking about. At all.
...would you believe that I'm not sure what they're talking about? :-[
Because he has a scumread on chairs? I'm not sure you're seeing the same thing as me, but that doesn't make chairs definately town.
Let's pretend we're seeing the same thing (don't say it out loud). Do you think chairs, as scum, would post what he did?
I'm sure scum can't figure out what you guys are talking about. At all.
...would you believe that I'm not sure what they're talking about? :-[
vote: Voltaire rage vote. I hate hate hate "secret cases" even if they're "secret town slips." Remember the last time someone did this ? Yeah, they were scum.
oh not again. I wasn't still in the game while that happened in M31, but it was still terrible as a spectator.Because he has a scumread on chairs? I'm not sure you're seeing the same thing as me, but that doesn't make chairs definately town.
Let's pretend we're seeing the same thing (don't say it out loud). Do you think chairs, as scum, would post what he did?
also, in light of M31, it makes sense for mail-mi to be against secret cases, as he was the one who the case was wrongly against.I was not around for M31, but if I am thinking the same as Voltaire is, then this is not necessarily a D1 lynch "secret case" but more of a "we need to remember this for after a couple flips case" that might pop up later. I do think I get what Voltaire is referring to, but I also agree with the rest of you that pursuing a"secret case" is bad for town.
While, the idea is that if we lynch the scummiest player, we aren't lynching anyone who would have been eliminated via POE... comes to the same result I guess.
While, the idea is that if we lynch the scummiest player, we aren't lynching anyone who would have been eliminated via POE... comes to the same result I guess.
My argument in favor of D1 POE-style statements is that it's giving us TONS of interaction data - scum have to decide whether their POE list should include their fellow scum or not, etc, etc. Particularly in D1, where the arguments are weakest, I think POE can give us more data than our typical "RVS into light scumhunting into probably-a-mislynch" pattern.
Who were the two people who subbed in? liopoil and someone else....I sent mcmc a PM saying that I could play if I died in toy story before D1 started very shortly after he posted that he was looking for a replacement for xerses. then when I died in toy story I sent him another PM saying I could play and he sent me my role PM right away
When did you two tell mcmc that you were going to play in the game?
I don't really want to lynch Robz right now because 1) He knows the flavor well, and 2) he is v/la (or semi-v/la) and has not been able to contribute too much. Ichimaru gets a newbie D1 pass from me. I need to go back and do a reread to better narrow down my list. Especially for people I have not played with before (chairs and Lekkit).
I mean, we still have until December 19 to get a lynch. No need to rush into anything.
I didn't reiterate it at the end, but I am saying I do not want to lynch Robz right now. Maybe I will after another week of content before the day is up.I don't really want to lynch Robz right now because 1) He knows the flavor well, and 2) he is v/la (or semi-v/la) and has not been able to contribute too much. Ichimaru gets a newbie D1 pass from me. I need to go back and do a reread to better narrow down my list. Especially for people I have not played with before (chairs and Lekkit).
I mean, we still have until December 19 to get a lynch. No need to rush into anything.
How is any of your points a reason to lynch Robz?
I didn't reiterate it at the end, but I am saying I do not want to lynch Robz right now. Maybe I will after another week of content before the day is up.I don't really want to lynch Robz right now because 1) He knows the flavor well, and 2) he is v/la (or semi-v/la) and has not been able to contribute too much. Ichimaru gets a newbie D1 pass from me. I need to go back and do a reread to better narrow down my list. Especially for people I have not played with before (chairs and Lekkit).
I mean, we still have until December 19 to get a lynch. No need to rush into anything.
How is any of your points a reason to lynch Robz?
Level-headed explanations to follow.
So, the case on mail-mi is, being upset at your secret case, even though the secret case (on chairs's towniness) is pro-town and he should like it?Level-headed explanations to follow.
Actually no, that's pretty much it above.
Ok, this is starting to be a major part of this game, so let's reread chairs, trying to figure out what the hell everyone is talking about.
So, the case on mail-mi is, being upset at your secret case, even though the secret case (on chairs's towniness) is pro-town and he should like it?Level-headed explanations to follow.
Actually no, that's pretty much it above.
That's the conclusion I was coming to as well... I just don't agree with the idea that scum wouldn't do that. To me, all it means is that chairs is not VT. And I'm not even sure of that, he could have been misleading (as a VT, your goals are 1) lynching scum 2) getting NKed).
That's the conclusion I was coming to as well... I just don't agree with the idea that scum wouldn't do that. To me, all it means is that chairs is not VT. And I'm not even sure of that, he could have been misleading (as a VT, your goals are 1) lynching scum 2) getting NKed).
Why do you think scum wouldn't do that?
No, I think he's play-acting at being upset by my case. He's never rage-voted before. He's voting me for playing the game, even if he disagrees. He's also not posting "I sheep X, vote Y" which is how town mail-mi usually plays D1.1. No I am upset cuz I hate hate hate these secret things. 2. So what? 3. Im voting you for secret stuff and now you've said it so unvote. 4. This is regular ash. Not gonna sheep that case.
Oh! But they don't know who to say they are instead . Yes, mass claim immediately
Are we already so sold this is a good idea? Based on my read of the setup, anybody who actually has a name to claim is a PR.
All the warriors gathered should be receiving battle instructions soon. These instruction's will inform you of your Kingdom(Alignment), Name(Flavor), and Role. The game developers have been quite busy working on Dynasty Warriors UltimaXtremeEsNumeroUnolegends 5... so some characters will be using a generic stock model. These are known as No Face Officers(Vanilla Townie)JK9++ is a setup with a variable amount of town PRs. Just because someone has a name that may be "powerful" in the story does not mean it will be a PR. I think what I bolded here seems to imply that "face" and "no-face" officers will not be able to be distinguished due to flavor name.
When I read what you bolded, I get the exact opposite impression as you do. I specifically read that as "Vanilla Townies will be "No Face Officers" in their PM, rather than a named officer".
I think all this means is that chairs is not a VT, or is a VT deliberately trying to pass for a PR (which I do think is possible, although unlikely). I don't know what makes you so sure that scum "wouldn't be the first to express confusion". Scum presumably discussed the setup on night 0, and they could very well have had the ame confusion as we did, and asked mcmc for clarification. It's very possible that scum!chairs then intentionally reproduced that confusion as a breadcrumb for a future fakeclaim.
Basically I agree that PR is the most likely option, but scum is still a strong enough possibility to give me pause.
I think all this means is that chairs is not a VT, or is a VT deliberately trying to pass for a PR (which I do think is possible, although unlikely). I don't know what makes you so sure that scum "wouldn't be the first to express confusion". Scum presumably discussed the setup on night 0, and they could very well have had the ame confusion as we did, and asked mcmc for clarification. It's very possible that scum!chairs then intentionally reproduced that confusion as a breadcrumb for a future fakeclaim.
Basically I agree that PR is the most likely option, but scum is still a strong enough possibility to give me pause.
I see what you're saying. Hmm.
ash, is this why you think chairs is scum? Or just his hesitation?
I think all this means is that chairs is not a VT, or is a VT deliberately trying to pass for a PR (which I do think is possible, although unlikely). I don't know what makes you so sure that scum "wouldn't be the first to express confusion". Scum presumably discussed the setup on night 0, and they could very well have had the ame confusion as we did, and asked mcmc for clarification. It's very possible that scum!chairs then intentionally reproduced that confusion as a breadcrumb for a future fakeclaim.
Basically I agree that PR is the most likely option, but scum is still a strong enough possibility to give me pause.
I see what you're saying. Hmm.
ash, is this why you think chairs is scum? Or just his hesitation?
I think scum is MORE likely to make the assumption chairs made than not, and that occurred to me at the time of posting. No one on the scum team would have a frame of reference for what town PMs say. This is akin to a situation where town has a different name that isn't announced in thread and the scum players not knowing and getting caught out.
I think scum is MORE likely to make the assumption chairs made than not, and that occurred to me at the time of posting. No one on the scum team would have a frame of reference for what town PMs say. This is akin to a situation where town has a different name that isn't announced in thread and the scum players not knowing and getting caught out.
But if chairs is town, he's a PR, so this is a dangerous lynch. Plus, there is a 50% chance that we have two opposing scum (mafia/SK). In this case, someone who is supposed to be a town PR or scum is not going to last long. I say just keep chairs alive today and see if scum solves the problem for us.
I think scum is MORE likely to make the assumption chairs made than not, and that occurred to me at the time of posting. No one on the scum team would have a frame of reference for what town PMs say. This is akin to a situation where town has a different name that isn't announced in thread and the scum players not knowing and getting caught out.
But we had that, in your game, in M31. It was town (who hadn't read their PM closely) who said something in-thread.
I think scum is MORE likely to make the assumption chairs made than not, and that occurred to me at the time of posting. No one on the scum team would have a frame of reference for what town PMs say. This is akin to a situation where town has a different name that isn't announced in thread and the scum players not knowing and getting caught out.
But we had that, in your game, in M31. It was town (who hadn't read their PM closely) who said something in-thread.
Scum was caught out with a similar VT problem in MAII. There are examples for both.
I'm not voting chairs now anyway. Is anyone? Why are we discussing him so much?
I think scum is MORE likely to make the assumption chairs made than not, and that occurred to me at the time of posting. No one on the scum team would have a frame of reference for what town PMs say. This is akin to a situation where town has a different name that isn't announced in thread and the scum players not knowing and getting caught out.
But we had that, in your game, in M31. It was town (who hadn't read their PM closely) who said something in-thread.
Scum was caught out with a similar VT problem in MAII. There are examples for both.
I'm not voting chairs now anyway. Is anyone? Why are we discussing him so much?
Because you said he was tied for your top scum read, and I found that extremely scummy.
Faust is still the scummiest.
Disagree that faust is scummy, but I see how town could disagree about him.
Disagree that faust is scummy, but I see how town could disagree about him.
Wait, what?
So basically instead of saying "we disagree" you say "town disagree"? Just putting it out there that you are in fact town. Just one more time. When nobody has said anything else.
unvote for sure. Chairs is 99% town I am thinking.Now that we know the case, I'm finding Voltaire slightly scummy for this. I know 99% of the time someone says they are 99% sure, they are exaggerating.. but this seems very excessive, and Voltaire is usually a reasonable person.
unvote for sure. Chairs is 99% town I am thinking.Now that we know the case, I'm finding Voltaire slightly scummy for this. I know 99% of the time someone says they are 99% sure, they are exaggerating.. but this seems very excessive, and Voltaire is usually a reasonable person.
unvote for sure. Chairs is 99% town I am thinking.Now that we know the case, I'm finding Voltaire slightly scummy for this. I know 99% of the time someone says they are 99% sure, they are exaggerating.. but this seems very excessive, and Voltaire is usually a reasonable person.
I simply do not think scum posts what chairs posts. Teproc however has pointed out that there is a reason he might post it as scum, which I did not think of at the time. It would require a very clever plan, though. One that I still don't think scum tries.
Oh scum totally tries gutsy plans. All the time.
Oh scum totally tries gutsy plans. All the time.
*squints* Really? D1? Really? Cite examples.
Oh scum totally tries gutsy plans. All the time.
*squints* Really? D1? Really? Cite examples.
The one that you brought up: Ash&co. in RMM9 (Jimmmm's game) being all on or all off.
Oh scum totally tries gutsy plans. All the time.
*squints* Really? D1? Really? Cite examples.
The one that you brought up: Ash&co. in RMM9 (Jimmmm's game) being all on or all off.
That's completely different from a plan to misunderstand the setup D1. That's what we're talking about. Early D1 individual plans.
Okay, I can't think of any specific examples. But i am not going to discredit scum being gutsy on D1. It is very possible.
Again, I don't think it's the most likely option, and I probably don't want to lynch chairs today because he has a higer chance than most people to be a PR, but it's there.this exactly
Also I am surprised to hear so little for yuma who said like nothing since we had that exchange about why I think flavor name claim would be--and is still--favorable in the long term.
Also I am surprised to hear so little for yuma who said like nothing since we had that exchange about why I think flavor name claim would be--and is still--favorable in the long term.
Lurker Yuma is town Yuma, right?
Also I am surprised to hear so little for yuma who said like nothing since we had that exchange about why I think flavor name claim would be--and is still--favorable in the long term.
Lurker Yuma is town Yuma, right?
Is that true? I actually would not have said that.
Well, seeing that everybody likes to talk about chairs' reaction to the claiming plan, what do you make of ashersky's reaction to it?
Well, seeing that everybody likes to talk about chairs' reaction to the claiming plan, what do you make of ashersky's reaction to it?
Well, seeing that everybody likes to talk about chairs' reaction to the claiming plan, what do you make of ashersky's reaction to it?
Are we sure we want to do this?
As I said earlier, I think all this talk might help scum more than us.
don't lynch: chairs (cuz of PR claim maybe possibly) mail-mi (also duh), ichamaruand by that i mean I need to reread.
don't care: everyone else
prefer to: voltaire, and i cant remember much else.
Why do you have a towny feel on mail-mi?
I am completely behind. I have very little access for the next few days, possibly more. I'll post when I can, if I can. But not right now. Sorry guys.Hope you feel better soon!
I am completely behind. I have very little access for the next few days, possibly more. I'll post when I can, if I can. But not right now. Sorry guys.
Deadline is December 19th right ? He might be back by then, we'll see. Of course we're not going to lynch him while he's absent, but there's really no point in having everyone say they won't lynch yuma if he turn out to be present in the last 3 days or something.
I always give yuma a Day 1 pass anyway.
Deadline is December 19th right ? He might be back by then, we'll see. Of course we're not going to lynch him while he's absent, but there's really no point in having everyone say they won't lynch yuma if he turn out to be present in the last 3 days or something.
I don't expect him to be reading along, but I know yuma well enough to know he'll feel guilty about not keeping up, and therefore will either try to get to a computer to read and contribute (when he should be focused on IRL matters) or feel badly about it at home, which doesn't help anything.
I want us, as a game community, to let yuma know that the next time he logs on, he can't just not worry about logging on again until everyone is well.
This.I am completely behind. I have very little access for the next few days, possibly more. I'll post when I can, if I can. But not right now. Sorry guys.
vote: we all agree to give yuma a D1 pass.
This.Deadline is December 19th right ? He might be back by then, we'll see. Of course we're not going to lynch him while he's absent, but there's really no point in having everyone say they won't lynch yuma if he turn out to be present in the last 3 days or something.
I don't expect him to be reading along, but I know yuma well enough to know he'll feel guilty about not keeping up, and therefore will either try to get to a computer to read and contribute (when he should be focused on IRL matters) or feel badly about it at home, which doesn't help anything.
I want us, as a game community, to let yuma know that the next time he logs on, he can just not worry about logging on again until everyone is well.
I'm policy voting anyone who votes for, complains about, or makes a case on Yuma on D1.This.
I'm caught up, but I don't have like thoughts about anything.I feel a lot like this right now. I have been super quiet, and I apologize. I will look to post a lot more in the coming days, but have been busy with work doing a bunch of short trips that take me away from my computer. I mean there was the whole claim thing (which I was right about, even if you do not think I should have claimed when I did) then we all kinds of for to a point of "let's not talk about this anymore" then the chairs thing, but not much else. I am pretty busy tonight and tomorrow but I will put some real effort into getting some reads Sunday. But I just feel as if there isn't a whole lot to go off of.
ash, why no plan?
Already did this, but again to summarize:
Don't lynch: Voltaire, chairs, Teproc, yuma, Ichimaru, faust
Could lynch: everyone else
Preferred lynch: ashersky
Already did this, but again to summarize:
Don't lynch: Voltaire, chairs, Teproc, yuma, Ichimaru, faust
Could lynch: everyone else
Preferred lynch: ashersky
Faust is still 100% scum. If you lynch me, this is the one thing I want you to take away. Vigs shoot shoot Faust N1. Roleblockers block him. If he lives to D2, lynch him.
In both games I modded the setup was new, created by me, ash was town in both games, and in both games he had a plan.
This his how I think you play D1: *I wanted to quote Galzria's explanation from that speccy thread, but I can't find it. Any help? You know the one I mean.*
I still maintain that f.ds does d1 wrong.
You can't "make a case" worth beans against scum unless they honestly 'slip'.
A) "Contradictions" aren't scummy. Town changes their mind and their opinion MUCH more than scum.
B) Scum can feed distrust and suspicion. They can fan the flames, or play the buddy game. Scum rarely ever stays noncommittal. If there's an issue, they have a stance on it. Which side is up to them.
C) Multiplayer interactions. Focus on them. "IF 'X' THEN 'Y'" are far more valuable than "I'm sure 'X' is true and bias everything towards that".
Every town player there right now is trying too hard to finger scum. To catch them. That won't work d1. Flip it around. Don't look for that one good case for somebody being scum, look for reasons to eliminate people. Give them reasons to be town - or at least a reason not to lynch. Archetype, for example, should be off the table. PoE down based on not who's "most likely" to be scum, but instead by eliminating those "less likely" to be scum.
Finding scum needs real information. You can't have that d1. D1 is a different animal and needs to be treated with different guiding principles. Town(s) will continue to fail because they think they can catch scum when they can't. D1 lynches are FAR, FAR below average for hitting scum for a reason.
The trick is making reasonable arguments for certain people (Arch, here) to be removed from lynch candidacy. Arguments that most agree on. I wouldn't lynch TA, Arch, Yuma or (I think) Sudgy in this game. Post count alone gets them a d1 pass from me. Can scum post a lot? Yes, but it's harder. And while one might be scum, there's a very, very low likelihood that two are. So look elsewhere.
But TA is being pushed for "being scummy". People want a d1 case, and that's what you get. It's the wrong way to find scum d1.
vote: mail-mi. Feel pretty good about this. Robz will back me up I think. mail-mi is voting me for playing the game, and not acting like himself at all.
Level-headed explanations to follow.
Ok, this is starting to be a major part of this game, so let's reread chairs, trying to figure out what the hell everyone is talking about.
Fine, I'll just tell you.
I think chairs is either a PR or scum.
He clearly has a name to claim, and he thinks only PRs have names to claim.
I thought it through, and I don't see why scum would be the first to express confusion on this point. It's similar to the nkirbit "oh huh is that what town is called" in M31 for those of you who were in that game.
So, I think chairs outed himself as a PR.
Lurker-yuma isn't scum yuma, lurker-yuma doesn't exist.
I always give yuma a Day 1 pass anyway.
Unfortunately there's no Mafia Roleblocker either so it's not even a scumslip, it's just ash not paying attention to the setup.
Actually, that kind of sounds weird too. Ash, I understand you haven't played the setup before, but why have you not tried to "solve" it like you usually do ?
voltaire has done a couple of things that I find to be anti-town now (sorry if you disagree voltaire, but I think if you look back you will see this to be true). I don't necessarily think that means scummy, but I would encourage him to rethink how he is playing if he is town, is that a fair request to ask voltaire?
voltaire has done a couple of things that I find to be anti-town now (sorry if you disagree voltaire, but I think if you look back you will see this to be true). I don't necessarily think that means scummy, but I would encourage him to rethink how he is playing if he is town, is that a fair request to ask voltaire?
voltaire has done a couple of things that I find to be anti-town now (sorry if you disagree voltaire, but I think if you look back you will see this to be true). I don't necessarily think that means scummy, but I would encourage him to rethink how he is playing if he is town, is that a fair request to ask voltaire?
Oh, I would agree with you that it was not handled well, in retrospect, but I ask you, what's the scum narrative here? It's actually quite nice now, in my eyes, because tons of people are calling me scummy for playing the game. That's actually a best-case scenario I think (expect for the whole chairs thing which, well, oops). I think I got a bit too excited about it because it really, really seemed to implicate ash.
I still have ash and mail-mi as my top scum reads so far.
voltaire has done a couple of things that I find to be anti-town now (sorry if you disagree voltaire, but I think if you look back you will see this to be true). I don't necessarily think that means scummy, but I would encourage him to rethink how he is playing if he is town, is that a fair request to ask voltaire?
Oh, I would agree with you that it was not handled well, in retrospect, but I ask you, what's the scum narrative here? It's actually quite nice now, in my eyes, because tons of people are calling me scummy for playing the game. That's actually a best-case scenario I think (expect for the whole chairs thing which, well, oops). I think I got a bit too excited about it because it really, really seemed to implicate ash.
I still have ash and mail-mi as my top scum reads so far.
The way I understood yuma's post, he did not say you were scummy.
I hope you realize that I'd like an answer to my question : what made you not as interested in solving the setup here, as opposed to basically every other game ?
There you go. I just wasted 5 minutes of my life so you can be satisifed of another dumb meta-enforced requirement. Plans, self-voting, etc. all happen whether I'm town or scum, people.pretty sure that this is a meta you've intentionally tried to grow... if you want us to say things like "oh it's ash, self-voting is normal" then you have to live up to it.
There you go. I just wasted 5 minutes of my life so you can be satisifed of another dumb meta-enforced requirement. Plans, self-voting, etc. all happen whether I'm town or scum, people.pretty sure that this is a meta you've intentionally tried to grow... if you want us to say things like "oh it's ash, self-voting is normal" then you have to live up to it.
Not that you necessarily should play up your meta. Honestly, I think it would be better if you DIDN'T do things like self-vote and so we don't expect you to do it and it's all better because self-voting is anti-town.
Plan less ash? vote: ash good nuf for a d1 vote.
Okay, I looked at the set-up.Thank you. unvote.
It's C9++ but harder to solve (i.e., can't be solved). We have no IC, so no way to start whittling away letter combos. Gunsmith is literally the only claim that requires two of a letter, and even then we only get at least 2/7 of the rolls.
There's no way to solve JK9++ easily, and definitely not on D1. You could mass claim, but it doesn't even help. The scum team doesn't vary enough to matter. At 4Ts, you add the JOAT possibilities.
There you go. I just wasted 5 minutes of my life so you can be satisifed of another dumb meta-enforced requirement. Plans, self-voting, etc. all happen whether I'm town or scum, people.
Ashersky- Zhang Fei is not my choice of lynch targets. He is absolutely correct in saying that it seems totally impossible to solve JK9++ (at least this early). I don't find the lack of a plan scummy either. I am leaning town on ash.
Faust- first post is a joke about getting lynched D1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg324158#msg324158). Second post he jumps on ash (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg324161#msg324161)for claiming and says ash is a good mislynch. Mentions policy lynching Voltaire (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg324169#msg324169) for bringing up mass flavor-claiming. He then throws out some "helpful" stuff about the setup. He has said a bit here or there since then, but it hasn't helped me shake the feeling that Faust is scum.
I will join Zhang Fei and vote: Faust
Are we already so sold this is a good idea? Based on my read of the setup, anybody who actually has a name to claim is a PR.
Really? Maybe that's the source of my confusion.
Based on my read of the setup, anybody who actually has a name to claim is a PR.
vote: chairs
"No Face" doesn't mean "no name".
Where can I find a list of who is a "face officer" and who is a "no-face" officer for these characters? I'm at a loss.
I am Zhuge Liang
Hold up. No-one else do this right now. Are you aware we are currently unclear if this just outs all our PRs?
That's why I asked if there's a wiki with a list of who the Face Officers and No-Face Officers are. Because I went to ash's name's page and it doesn't say he's face or no-face, so I'm quite confused.
Also, I do think I want to vote: chairs.
Also, massclaim and win? I don't see how mafia can claim any role but VT, and they might have trouble claiming a town alignment too. Point it out if there is something I'm not seeing.
Right, which is why I trust you here after you said your name - you're either a PR willing to be outed D1, a VT taking a reasonable risk, or scum seeing if they can get away with their claim/mislead town.
I'm back to vote: Lekkit. To the scumhunting, gentlemen. Robz may or may not be able to help us with this flavor stuff later.
So far I think chairs is town, small town reads on e and Robz, null on everyone else.
If you're town, pretty-please go back and re-read that section. I agree that he came across that way. But he also did another thing. So he's town.
I think it is and should be (slowly) happening now (in the background of each player's head). I'll put forward a more serious explanation later.
Fine, I'll just tell you.
I think chairs is either a PR or scum.
He clearly has a name to claim, and he thinks only PRs have names to claim.
I thought it through, and I don't see why scum would be the first to express confusion on this point. It's similar to the nkirbit "oh huh is that what town is called" in M31 for those of you who were in that game.
So, I think chairs outed himself as a PR.
Oh, I would agree with you that it was not handled well, in retrospect, but I ask you, what's the scum narrative here? It's actually quite nice now, in my eyes, because tons of people are calling me scummy for playing the game. That's actually a best-case scenario I think (expect for the whole chairs thing which, well, oops). I think I got a bit too excited about it because it really, really seemed to implicate ash.
I still have ash and mail-mi as my top scum reads so far.
I am town. I think faust is not scummy. If ashersky is town, I can see how he could find faust scummy. We have the same alignment (maybe), but we disagree.
Scum are confident.
Town change their mind as new evidence presents itself.
I do not think Voltaire is scum.
he switches his stand back and forth over a period of just under 2 hours. The very short time frame says to me that he is just saying his thoughts out loud. A lot. I would think scum are more reserved.Scum are confident.
Town change their mind as new evidence presents itself.
I do not think Voltaire is scum.
Voltaire switches standpoints without any new evidence. He just turns, then turns again. And says he's maintained the same stance.
Faust please give a concise outline of your ashersky case. You didn't like him claiming before we "knew" the face/no face stuff about the setup and that he doesn't have a plan?
Also, vote: ashersky.
That guy is always scum. I mean, in the last game I played with him, he was scum twice!
But seriously: Ashersky flavor-claimed before we knew whether VTs had flavor names. This probably means one of two things:
1) ash himself is a VT, so he already knew. In that case, he's an okay mislynch.
2) ash is scum and had a fake claim provided. In that case, lynch him!
Faust please give a concise outline of your ashersky case. You didn't like him claiming before we "knew" the face/no face stuff about the setup and that he doesn't have a plan?I just reread all your posts, and you did have a couple more reasons than what I started right here.
His level of confidence is blah in my mind. He is just putting out strong statements to stimulate discussion.
By but what member of town talks about a good mislynch? Please give a town narrative for why that is not scummy
giving up on finding scum already.His level of confidence is blah in my mind. He is just putting out strong statements to stimulate discussion.
By but what member of town talks about a good mislynch? Please give a town narrative for why that is not scummy
Well yes, his level of confidence is not so unusual for ashersky, I guess. But he did not even bother to make a case against me. He just stated "faust is scum!" without any reason at all, and didn't give reasons even after I asked him to.
This is D1. Are we going to find scum? Maybe, but likely not. A VT lynch is not the worst thing that could happen. What IS bad is outing our PRs. Games in which multiple PRs are forced to claim D1 usually end badly for town. So I aim for a player who, if town, is NOT a PR. And I do think that ash is likely scum. It's only, I know it's D1 and my reads may be completely off, so I need to consider the case where my suspect is town. It is for that reason that you don't lynch claimed PRs D1 even if you think they're scum.
Vote Count 1.4(mobile)
ashersky (1): Faust
Eevee (1): Yuma
Faust (2): ashersky, 2.71828
mail-mi (2): Voltaire, mail-mi
Voltaire (3): mail-mi, Ichimaru Gin, Lekkit
Not Voting (4): Robz888, Liopoil, Eevee, Teproc
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December, 19 at 2:00 p.m. Forum time.
And I am utterly unconvinced by your case against ashersky. It is random, based purely on gut feelings, and could very well end in a mislynch that you are ok with
And ashersky's lack of a plan is almost a town read for me
giving up on finding scum already.His level of confidence is blah in my mind. He is just putting out strong statements to stimulate discussion.
By but what member of town talks about a good mislynch? Please give a town narrative for why that is not scummy
Well yes, his level of confidence is not so unusual for ashersky, I guess. But he did not even bother to make a case against me. He just stated "faust is scum!" without any reason at all, and didn't give reasons even after I asked him to.
This is D1. Are we going to find scum? Maybe, but likely not. A VT lynch is not the worst thing that could happen. What IS bad is outing our PRs. Games in which multiple PRs are forced to claim D1 usually end badly for town. So I aim for a player who, if town, is NOT a PR. And I do think that ash is likely scum. It's only, I know it's D1 and my reads may be completely off, so I need to consider the case where my suspect is town. It is for that reason that you don't lynch claimed PRs D1 even if you think they're scum.
*shakes head in dismay*
Robz, ashersky's certainty over Faust might be off, but what do you think about Faust in general? Do you lean town or scum?
I think he is scum right now.Robz, ashersky's certainty over Faust might be off, but what do you think about Faust in general? Do you lean town or scum?
Totally neutral. I like that he's contributing. Actually, the only time I saw scum Faust he was closer to a lurker, but I don't know he's just gotten more active as he's played more games. But anyway I have no reason to think he is scum here. Do you?
I think he is scum right now.Robz, ashersky's certainty over Faust might be off, but what do you think about Faust in general? Do you lean town or scum?
Totally neutral. I like that he's contributing. Actually, the only time I saw scum Faust he was closer to a lurker, but I don't know he's just gotten more active as he's played more games. But anyway I have no reason to think he is scum here. Do you?
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326112#msg326112I think he is scum right now.Robz, ashersky's certainty over Faust might be off, but what do you think about Faust in general? Do you lean town or scum?
Totally neutral. I like that he's contributing. Actually, the only time I saw scum Faust he was closer to a lurker, but I don't know he's just gotten more active as he's played more games. But anyway I have no reason to think he is scum here. Do you?
Why? Did I miss your case?
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326112#msg326112I think he is scum right now.Robz, ashersky's certainty over Faust might be off, but what do you think about Faust in general? Do you lean town or scum?
Totally neutral. I like that he's contributing. Actually, the only time I saw scum Faust he was closer to a lurker, but I don't know he's just gotten more active as he's played more games. But anyway I have no reason to think he is scum here. Do you?
Why? Did I miss your case?
The last paragraph.
If there's one thing that I think both Voltaire and ashersky (the pair of whom I think contains at most 1 scum) can agree on, it's that we should vote: mail-mi.If you think that pair has a good chance of having one scum, then why are you voting with them?
Vote: liopoilGood point.
Now that we can talk about Toy Story mafia, my scum partner liopoil did a good job in later days, but I think he really struggled to make early contributions as scum. He is struggling with that here, too. In fact his most recent contribution was only to point out that he doesn't have any contributions.
I am guessing this is most scummy on top to least scummy on bottom.Vote: liopoilGood point.
Now that we can talk about Toy Story mafia, my scum partner liopoil did a good job in later days, but I think he really struggled to make early contributions as scum. He is struggling with that here, too. In fact his most recent contribution was only to point out that he doesn't have any contributions.
My scumminess reads:
Voltaire
liopoil
faust
chairs
ash
yes.I am guessing this is most scummy on top to least scummy on bottom.Vote: liopoilGood point.
Now that we can talk about Toy Story mafia, my scum partner liopoil did a good job in later days, but I think he really struggled to make early contributions as scum. He is struggling with that here, too. In fact his most recent contribution was only to point out that he doesn't have any contributions.
My scumminess reads:
Voltaire
liopoil
faust
chairs
ash
Mail-no, could you please summarize your case against Voltaire? Has he done things you find scummy, or just things you see as anti-town?ugh auto correct. Sorry for messing up your name mail-mi
Mail-no, could you please summarize your case against Voltaire? Has he done things you find scummy, or just things you see as anti-town?He's done some anti-town things (like drawing attention to chair's PR claim by making it secret and making a big deal out of it) and I also have a bad feeling. Not quite the eat-my-hat-if-he's-not-scum feeling, but still a scummy one.
On-Liam? :o Please no. :DMail-no, could you please summarize your case against Voltaire? Has he done things you find scummy, or just things you see as anti-town?ugh auto correct. Sorry for messing up your name mail-mi
so your top scum read is based on a gut feeling and how he handled the chairs situation. I just don't find that a very good case, as I have started elsewhere. And I guess liopoil and the rest are all gut feelings as well, because I assume you would put someone who you had a case against st at #1 scum.Mail-no, could you please summarize your case against Voltaire? Has he done things you find scummy, or just things you see as anti-town?He's done some anti-town things (like drawing attention to chair's PR claim by making it secret and making a big deal out of it) and I also have a bad feeling. Not quite the eat-my-hat-if-he's-not-scum feeling, but still a scummy one.
Where does Voltaire claim he maintained the same stance? I didn't see it in your summary post, where you painted Voltaire as scummy as possible.Scum are confident.
Town change their mind as new evidence presents itself.
I do not think Voltaire is scum.
Voltaire switches standpoints without any new evidence. He just turns, then turns again. And says he's maintained the same stance.
The liopoil one is the thing that Robz pointed out, the similarity between him in Toy Story and him here. Your case against faust is good, I would vote for him if voltaire and liopoil aren't getting lynched. That's why he's my 3rd scum read.so your top scum read is based on a gut feeling and how he handled the chairs situation. I just don't find that a very good case, as I have started elsewhere. And I guess liopoil and the rest are all gut feelings as well, because I assume you would put someone who you had a case against st at #1 scum.Mail-no, could you please summarize your case against Voltaire? Has he done things you find scummy, or just things you see as anti-town?He's done some anti-town things (like drawing attention to chair's PR claim by making it secret and making a big deal out of it) and I also have a bad feeling. Not quite the eat-my-hat-if-he's-not-scum feeling, but still a scummy one.
What do you think about my case against Faust and ashersky's insistence that Faust is scum?
how are we going to get this game moving? looking at that post count, I'm at the bottom. I've been around plenty, but really haven't had much to say about what little has happened.I tend to believe liopoil here, and thus do not like the robz case that mail-mi has adopted. First lio says he totally disliked flavor claiming and says that flavor claiming is not what he signed up for. Then there is the whole chairs thing that he didn't really like either. So he had nothing additional to say about them. So lio is an admitted lurker, but I am not in the business of lynching lurkers, but scum.
Lio, what do you think about Voltaire and Faust?and ashersky
how are we going to get this game moving? looking at that post count, I'm at the bottom. I've been around plenty, but really haven't had much to say about what little has happened.I tend to believe liopoil here, and thus do not like the robz case that mail-mi has adopted. First lio says he totally disliked flavor claiming and says that flavor claiming is not what he signed up for. Then there is the whole chairs thing that he didn't really like either. So he had nothing additional to say about them. So lio is an admitted lurker, but I am not in the business of lynching lurkers, but scum.
Lio, what do you think about Voltaire and Faust?
Vote: liopoilnot quite, I said something about ashersky's meta after that I think. but I can't exactly argue that I've been contributing today, yes. However, I think I've been struggling to make early contributions in any game as of late. Just really don't have much of anything that I find worth of note.
Now that we can talk about Toy Story mafia, my scum partner liopoil did a good job in later days, but I think he really struggled to make early contributions as scum. He is struggling with that here, too. In fact his most recent contribution was only to point out that he doesn't have any contributions.
Actually, I've talked myself into a vote: 2.7 here. Summaries are scumhuntaries !I have actually heard that they are scummaries.
Ichimaru, you are currently voting Voltaire. You didn't really mention any reasons, and when you tag on to reasons other people have made it is called sheeping and it is not a good place to be. However, looking at another person's case against someone and understanding why that someone is scummy is fine for a new player. What your job as a new player to do is evaluate the pros/cons of each case and decide which one you like the best and go there. Then instead of trying to create your own case (which can be tough) you can expand on an existing case by starting what points you think are good or bad.
My question to you: what case do you think is the best case right now? Faust, Voltaire, Ashersky, and liopoil all have some sort of case or vote against them. What reasons do you have for saying that person is the scummiest?
Faust- first post is a joke about getting lynched D1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg324158#msg324158). Second post he jumps on ash (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg324161#msg324161)for claiming and says ash is a good mislynch. Mentions policy lynching Voltaire (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg324169#msg324169) for bringing up mass flavor-claiming. He then throws out some "helpful" stuff about the setup. He has said a bit here or there since then, but it hasn't helped me shake the feeling that Faust is scum.This I mostly agree with. But I still don't see it as strong as the case against Voltaire. I only have one vote, and that's going to who I personally think is scummiest.
I will join Zhang Fei and vote: Faust
I guess also slight town for being suspected for bad reasons.
scum would also be content letting this game lurk into night without any real scum hunting.I guess also slight town for being suspected for bad reasons.
Huh ? How is that indicative of anything ? If scum wants to build cases against each other, they definitely will be weak cases to avoid actually creating a wagon.
Ichimaru : Playing up the newb card. A lot. The OMGUS seems forced newbishness. Surprised Robz hasn't commented on that. Scummy.
it means that if the only reasons they are being suspected are bad reasons, then there are likely no good reasons to suspect themI guess also slight town for being suspected for bad reasons.
Huh ? How is that indicative of anything ? If scum wants to build cases against each other, they definitely will be weak cases to avoid actually creating a wagon.
Ichimaru : Playing up the newb card. A lot. The OMGUS seems forced newbishness. Surprised Robz hasn't commented on that. Scummy.
Voltaire posting a ton is not scummy. That's just Voltaire.did someone say it was?
Voltaire posting a ton is not scummy. That's just Voltaire.did someone say it was?
If there's one thing that I think both Voltaire and ashersky (the pair of whom I think contains at most 1 scum) can agree on, it's that we should vote: mail-mi.If you think that pair has a good chance of having one scum, then why are you voting with them?
Where does Voltaire claim he maintained the same stance? I didn't see it in your summary post, where you painted Voltaire as scummy as possible.Scum are confident.
Town change their mind as new evidence presents itself.
I do not think Voltaire is scum.
Voltaire switches standpoints without any new evidence. He just turns, then turns again. And says he's maintained the same stance.
Since when is this how ashersky plays? vote: ashersky.
Also, everyone should vote ash because chairs is one of his top scum reads.
agree totally. D1, we ask "Who's the scummiest?" and lynch them.
But see I think that is a terrible way to play D1, and it's why in the past f.ds usually lynches town D1 (we've gotten much better at this lately).
This his how I think you play D1: *I wanted to quote Galzria's explanation from that speccy thread, but I can't find it. Any help? You know the one I mean.*
Everyone should join me in lynching ash.
And I feel better about a mail-mi vote than an ash vote.
I am town. I think faust is not scummy. If ashersky is town, I can see how he could find faust scummy. We have the same alignment (maybe), but we disagree.
No, pointing out that my disagreement with ash may or may not be town v town. Since I don't know ash's alignment.
I still have ash and mail-mi as my top scum reads so far.
Why do you think only one of them is town?
If you'd rather I stop putting those qualifying statements out there, I'll be happy to. I just don't want to come off like some jerk by saying a bunch of stuff when I may not know at all what I'm talking about.
So you don't really think one of them is scum, you hope?
Well, while I fear there may be some OMGUS in this, e does appear different from his usual town self. He's usually reluctant to vote early on. I am also used to him making better cases han the one against me, but here of course my perception may be skewed because I know I'm town. What's interesting is that he is defending ash that strongly, which would be a dangerous move for scum to make D1. So one of them could be town. But, at this point, I also think that only one of them is town.Ignoring the OMGUS, which I don't really mind, I will address your concerns about my play:
Seems to me like he has been on Ash and mail-mi all game. Not much variation there.Where does Voltaire claim he maintained the same stance? I didn't see it in your summary post, where you painted Voltaire as scummy as possible.Scum are confident.
Town change their mind as new evidence presents itself.
I do not think Voltaire is scum.
Voltaire switches standpoints without any new evidence. He just turns, then turns again. And says he's maintained the same stance.Since when is this how ashersky plays? vote: ashersky.Also, everyone should vote ash because chairs is one of his top scum reads.agree totally. D1, we ask "Who's the scummiest?" and lynch them.
But see I think that is a terrible way to play D1, and it's why in the past f.ds usually lynches town D1 (we've gotten much better at this lately).
This his how I think you play D1: *I wanted to quote Galzria's explanation from that speccy thread, but I can't find it. Any help? You know the one I mean.*Everyone should join me in lynching ash.And I feel better about a mail-mi vote than an ash vote.I am town. I think faust is not scummy. If ashersky is town, I can see how he could find faust scummy. We have the same alignment (maybe), but we disagree.No, pointing out that my disagreement with ash may or may not be town v town. Since I don't know ash's alignment.I still have ash and mail-mi as my top scum reads so far.
Players:
1. Voltaire
2. Robz888
3. mail-mi
4. Chairs
5. Ashersky
6. Yuma
7. Ichimaru Gin
8. Lekkit
9. Liopoil
10. Teproc
11. 2.7
12. Eevee
13. Faust
Here goes some very rough POE:I marked off the people you talked about. While I appreciate being above any suspicion, it is only fair if you at least mention me to mark me off your POE list
Players:1. Voltaire
2. Robz888
3. mail-mi
4. Chairs
5. Ashersky
6. Yuma
7. Ichimaru Gin8. Lekkit9. Liopoil10. Teproc
11. 2.712. Eevee13. Faust
Players 1-7 eliminated due to activity / general controversy surrounding them (and IG for being new, I agree it's no fun to start of your mafia career by getting lynched).
I wouldn't oppose my lynch if I didn't know my alignment, I know my performance this far has been lacking. Day 1s, I just don't see much happening.
Anyways, faust/Teproc have also been involved in a way I can remember, and Lekkit gets a pass for attempting a case on Voltaire, leaving me to a Vote: liopoil Robz's observations about his play being similar to Toy Story are a nice addition to my own PoE.
voltaire has done a couple of things that I find to be anti-town now (sorry if you disagree voltaire, but I think if you look back you will see this to be true). I don't necessarily think that means scummy, but I would encourage him to rethink how he is playing if he is town, is that a fair request to ask voltaire?
Oh, I would agree with you that it was not handled well, in retrospect, but I ask you, what's the scum narrative here? It's actually quite nice now, in my eyes, because tons of people are calling me scummy for playing the game. That's actually a best-case scenario I think (expect for the whole chairs thing which, well, oops). I think I got a bit too excited about it because it really, really seemed to implicate ash.
I still have ash and mail-mi as my top scum reads so far.
The way I understood yuma's post, he did not say you were scummy.
I personally think it's implied. And you can't deny several other people have stated they want to lynch me. (yuma also claims I'm unusually high later)
I think yuma built a scum narrative for Voltaire but then explained it away himself.
I would vote yuma here, but he is vla + also often killed by scum if he is town, so I just don't think he can be a good day 1 lynch, whatever he says.
2.1 So joking is scummy now? This is intersting coming from a guy who [REDACTED because ongoing game]. I did not look for a D1 pass. In fact, lynch me today if you feel you need to. I do admit I was a little annoyed because I was lynched D1 two times in a row, and would prefer if it didn't happen again.I hope joking isn't scummy. It is just that the content of your joke comes across as a "you better not lynch me" sort of joke. I enjoy a good joke as much as the other guy, as you can see from my play in toy story and [REDACTED], but have learned that it can get you in trouble. You have to be accountable for everything you say, which is tough when you are making jokes and really don't want to have disclaimers at the end of every post (ruining the joke). So while I am fine giving you a pass for the joke, it is still important to remember that you are accountable for the stuff you joke about.
2.2 So, consider the following, hypothetical situation: There's player A, who has a 50% chance to flip scum and a 50% chance to flip town PR. Then, there's player B with a 40% chance to flip scum and a 60% chance to flip VT. Which do you lynch? I would lynch B in this case - because it's better for town should he flip town. Sort of a minimax principle. This reasoning applies when I call someone a "good mislynch".So Ash is player B since he claimed a flavor name? And what, chairs is player A? How about player C who has 60% shot of being scum, 40% shot of being VT? I like those odds better. (you are player C. And don't come and accuse me about making up arbitrary percentages, you did the same thing. I mean, I am being generous. By Ashersky standards it would by 100% shot of being scum, 0% shot of being VT)
2.3 Hold on a second, I did not even policy vote Voltaire (and policy voting != policy lynching), and have stated since that Voltaire is out of my lynch pool for today. And my reasoning is not that the flavor discussion was irrelevant, it was that the discussion was actively hurting town.True, you did not policy vote Voltaire. And true, flavor discussion hurt town. But you were setting yourself up for another "He would make a good mislynch" target with that statement. Which I find to be a little scummy
I'm referring to you saying "this is anti-town and Voltaire is doing it, however it's not pro-scum either, so not suspecting Voltaire for it". Your explanation for it was to instruct Voltaire to stop being anti-town, which is fine.I think yuma built a scum narrative for Voltaire but then explained it away himself.
I would vote yuma here, but he is vla + also often killed by scum if he is town, so I just don't think he can be a good day 1 lynch, whatever he says.
Again what?
If you want to vote for me, vote for me. But where is the scum narrative on Voltaire? What are you talking about?
I'm referring to you saying "this is anti-town and Voltaire is doing it, however it's not pro-scum either, so not suspecting Voltaire for it". Your explanation for it was to instruct Voltaire to stop being anti-town, which is fine.I think yuma built a scum narrative for Voltaire but then explained it away himself.
I would vote yuma here, but he is vla + also often killed by scum if he is town, so I just don't think he can be a good day 1 lynch, whatever he says.
Again what?
If you want to vote for me, vote for me. But where is the scum narrative on Voltaire? What are you talking about?
I guess I felt like you were trying to throw mud around without getting your own hands dirty (day 1 cases built around an antitown mistake someone made have often been popular in the past).I'm referring to you saying "this is anti-town and Voltaire is doing it, however it's not pro-scum either, so not suspecting Voltaire for it". Your explanation for it was to instruct Voltaire to stop being anti-town, which is fine.I think yuma built a scum narrative for Voltaire but then explained it away himself.
I would vote yuma here, but he is vla + also often killed by scum if he is town, so I just don't think he can be a good day 1 lynch, whatever he says.
Again what?
If you want to vote for me, vote for me. But where is the scum narrative on Voltaire? What are you talking about?
So why would you vote me for that?
11. 2.7 - 21
13. Faust - 21
Yuma is correct to point out my low post count. I have not been as active as I should. I have a Christmas party that I have to go to right now, but I just finished a reread and will post my thoughts as soon as I get a chance either late tonight or sometime tomorrow.
So Ash is player B since he claimed a flavor name? And what, chairs is player A? How about player C who has 60% shot of being scum, 40% shot of being VT? I like those odds better. (you are player C. And don't come and accuse me about making up arbitrary percentages, you did the same thing. I mean, I am being generous. By Ashersky standards it would by 100% shot of being scum, 0% shot of being VT)
This was before Yuma's post count and calling me out on it. I guess I sort of followed my joke about picking someone to tunnel, but varied from the joke in that it was not a random "draw out of the hat" tunnel. It was because in my reread he was the one who came up scummiest. And we had to start somewhereI'm caught up, but I don't have like thoughts about anything.I feel a lot like this right now. I have been super quiet, and I apologize. I will look to post a lot more in the coming days, but have been busy with work doing a bunch of short trips that take me away from my computer. I mean there was the whole claim thing (which I was right about, even if you do not think I should have claimed when I did) then we all kinds of for to a point of "let's not talk about this anymore" then the chairs thing, but not much else. I am pretty busy tonight and tomorrow but I will put some real effort into getting some reads Sunday. But I just feel as if there isn't a whole lot to go off of.
I guess I should do a random drawing them just tunnel the person I draw if nothing else happens.
(For the sake of clarity, that was a joke)
Ok, so the case against Liopoil that Robz brought up: Liopoil struggles to contribute as scum D1. Liopoil is not contributing today. Liopoil is scum.
I think we can do better than that. However, I do agree with the concern that we do not have a single wagon today. I mean, not even an RVS wagon.
I do not know that. In this game, it is impossible to know PRs D1 unless they claim at L-1. (hopefully we don't get a town PR to L-1) So it is entirely possible that you are a PR, but I kind of just threw it out because that is almost impossible to tell on anyone. So say everyone defaults to 20% chance of PR (except we might give chairs a higher %) then just take my odds and adjust accordinglySo Ash is player B since he claimed a flavor name? And what, chairs is player A? How about player C who has 60% shot of being scum, 40% shot of being VT? I like those odds better. (you are player C. And don't come and accuse me about making up arbitrary percentages, you did the same thing. I mean, I am being generous. By Ashersky standards it would by 100% shot of being scum, 0% shot of being VT)
I just gave an abstract example, A and B weren't meant to correspond to actual players in this game. Also, how come you think I have a 0% chance of being a PR?
This was before Yuma's post count and calling me out on it. I guess I sort of followed my joke about picking someone to tunnel, but varied from the joke in that it was not a random "draw out of the hat" tunnel. It was because in my reread he was the one who came up scummiest. And we had to start somewhereI'm caught up, but I don't have like thoughts about anything.I feel a lot like this right now. I have been super quiet, and I apologize. I will look to post a lot more in the coming days, but have been busy with work doing a bunch of short trips that take me away from my computer. I mean there was the whole claim thing (which I was right about, even if you do not think I should have claimed when I did) then we all kinds of for to a point of "let's not talk about this anymore" then the chairs thing, but not much else. I am pretty busy tonight and tomorrow but I will put some real effort into getting some reads Sunday. But I just feel as if there isn't a whole lot to go off of.
I guess I should do a random drawing them just tunnel the person I draw if nothing else happens.
(For the sake of clarity, that was a joke)
I do think lurking and then not lurking after being called out is something of a scumtell... as opposed to lurking, getting called out and continuing to semi-lurk.... mafia cares about being perceived as lurking, town... unfortunately often doesn't care at all...But it does show my increased activity wasn't a pure reaction to yuma calling me out
Actually, it is more of a "I don't like lynching lurkers after my ordeal with Archetype in Toy Story went sour" kind of things.Ok, so the case against Liopoil that Robz brought up: Liopoil struggles to contribute as scum D1. Liopoil is not contributing today. Liopoil is scum.
I think we can do better than that. However, I do agree with the concern that we do not have a single wagon today. I mean, not even an RVS wagon.
Well, to be fair, the case against liopoil isn't worse than the case you made against me. But it seems the only cases you deem worthy are those supported by you.
Every town player there right now is trying too hard to finger scum. To catch them. That won't work d1. Flip it around. Don't look for that one good case for somebody being scum, look for reasons to eliminate people. Give them reasons to be town - or at least a reason not to lynch. Archetype, for example, should be off the table. PoE down based on not who's "most likely" to be scum, but instead by eliminating those "less likely" to be scum.
Finding scum needs real information. You can't have that d1. D1 is a different animal and needs to be treated with different guiding principles. Town(s) will continue to fail because they think they can catch scum when they can't. D1 lynches are FAR, FAR below average for hitting scum for a reason.
The trick is making reasonable arguments for certain people (Arch, here) to be removed from lynch candidacy. Arguments that most agree on.
The question here is : does liopoil lurk as town ? I'm trusting Robz in his assesment of scum! liopoil, but it's only relevant if liopoil is more active as town. I'd do the research, but... you know.
Actually, it is more of a "I don't like lynching lurkers after my ordeal with Archetype in Toy Story went sour" kind of things.Ok, so the case against Liopoil that Robz brought up: Liopoil struggles to contribute as scum D1. Liopoil is not contributing today. Liopoil is scum.
I think we can do better than that. However, I do agree with the concern that we do not have a single wagon today. I mean, not even an RVS wagon.
Well, to be fair, the case against liopoil isn't worse than the case you made against me. But it seems the only cases you deem worthy are those supported by you.
If there's one thing that I think both Voltaire and ashersky (the pair of whom I think contains at most 1 scum) can agree on, it's that we should vote: mail-mi.
If there's one thing that I think both Voltaire and ashersky (the pair of whom I think contains at most 1 scum) can agree on, it's that we should vote: mail-mi.
I would love to! But I'm catching up after being away all weekend, has there been a recent votecount?
mail-mi (2) : Voltaire, chairs
It wasn't implied. Why do you think it was implied (are you overly paranoid about people thinking you are scum?)
If I think you are scummy I will say I think you are scummy. If I think you are being anti-town I will say you are being anti-town. In this case I think you were being anti-town and asked you to address the situation and rectify it if you are town as best you can... which you appear to have done, but it shouldn't be interpreted as me saying that you are scummy because of it... But you thinking that I was implying something is scummy.
I find Faust scummy because:
1) He made a joke to create a D1 pass for himself
2) He was looking for "good" mislynches in Ashersky and Voltaire. He expressed concerns about both of them, not because he had come up with great scum narratives for them, but because they are mislynches that wouldn't hurt town as much
I can't believe Voltaire has more votes than liopoil. Voltaire is like doing a lot of stuff at least. At a minimum, we kind of need that.
Looking at the vote count, I'd be willing to switch my vote to liopoil or mail-mi if needed. Still prefer ash though.
This was before Yuma's post count and calling me out on it. I guess I sort of followed my joke about picking someone to tunnel, but varied from the joke in that it was not a random "draw out of the hat" tunnel. It was because in my reread he was the one who came up scummiest. And we had to start somewhereI'm caught up, but I don't have like thoughts about anything.I feel a lot like this right now. I have been super quiet, and I apologize. I will look to post a lot more in the coming days, but have been busy with work doing a bunch of short trips that take me away from my computer. I mean there was the whole claim thing (which I was right about, even if you do not think I should have claimed when I did) then we all kinds of for to a point of "let's not talk about this anymore" then the chairs thing, but not much else. I am pretty busy tonight and tomorrow but I will put some real effort into getting some reads Sunday. But I just feel as if there isn't a whole lot to go off of.
I guess I should do a random drawing them just tunnel the person I draw if nothing else happens.
(For the sake of clarity, that was a joke)
When I first saw the quote he is presenting I thought it was a sarcastic rewrite--and valid rewrite--of Robz's post saying basically that "there wasn't anything to comment on except for a whole bunch of stuff... I mean he even calls it a joke in that postFor the sake of clarity, I was only joking about that very last part about drawing a name out of a hat and tunneling that person. I was not joking about the other stuff. Basically, there was nothing for me to say except "I told you so" because mcmc confirmed everything that I thought about the setup. (like everyone gets a name) And about the "secret case" that Voltaire presented, which I understood immediately, but people kept pressing so he eventually said what he meant to everyone. So I could post "I told you so" which doesn't come across great, or nothing. Which is what I did for a while until I did my reread as promised
Just for the future, never tell jokes. Because you are like rightly I think being scrutinized for something that very well may be nothing.yeah, which is why I wanted to clarify my statement about tunneling someone as a joke. Which I ended up not being as precise as I wanted and caused confusion.
Actually town doesn't care, or shouldn't care, about the post count.
That's not very helpful if you can't identify the situations where the post count is a good way to find scum.Actually town doesn't care, or shouldn't care, about the post count.
I don't about that. The post count, at certain points in past games, has been a good way to find scum. I don't know if it is now, or in this game particularly.
Guys, let's lynch Faust, then find other scum D2 based on his wagon, interactions, and whatever happens N1.somehow I don't think that will happen.....no one seems to be picking up our little wagon. Pretty anti-town of them if you ask me. Yuma was complaining about no wagons, we could have had one right here but instead they try to build one on liopoil?
Guys, let's lynch Faust, then find other scum D2 based on his wagon, interactions, and whatever happens N1.But, while are at it, you clearly still believe Faust is scum. Could you outline your reasons again for clarity? I don't believe you ever really laid out point by point why you think he is scum
Guys, let's lynch Faust, then find other scum D2 based on his wagon, interactions, and whatever happens N1.somehow I don't think that will happen.....no one seems to be picking up our little wagon. Pretty anti-town of them if you ask me. Yuma was complaining about no wagons, we could have had one right here but instead they try to build one on liopoil?
Guys, let's lynch Faust, then find other scum D2 based on his wagon, interactions, and whatever happens N1.But, while are at it, you clearly still believe Faust is scum. Could you outline your reasons again for clarity? I don't believe you ever really laid out point by point why you think he is scum
Guys, let's lynch Faust, then find other scum D2 based on his wagon, interactions, and whatever happens N1.
I called him out on it, so now he's been forced to continue the "trying to mislynch is pro-town!" narrative, which is bonkers. He literally said he prefers to lynch a 60% town chance instead of a 50% town chance. Who wants to lynch town? Scum.
I called him out on it, so now he's been forced to continue the "trying to mislynch is pro-town!" narrative, which is bonkers. He literally said he prefers to lynch a 60% town chance instead of a 50% town chance. Who wants to lynch town? Scum.
You're the one being bonkers here. faust gave an entirely reasonable explanation for this.
I do think ash is wrong about the severity of a mislynch not mattering at all, of course it does. I could see myself wanting to lynch someone who in my eyes is less likely to be scum, must have happened more than once in fact.
I think faust's point is that if player A is the town cop 40% of the time and a mafia goon 60% of the time and player B is a VT 50% of the time and a mafia goon 50% of the time, B is the better lynch even though A is more likely to be scum.that's what I get from faust. If that's the basis of the case, I disagree.
Assuming that's what he is saying, I and I think most others as well, agree with him.
and by that I mean I disagree with the case.I think faust's point is that if player A is the town cop 40% of the time and a mafia goon 60% of the time and player B is a VT 50% of the time and a mafia goon 50% of the time, B is the better lynch even though A is more likely to be scum.that's what I get from faust. If that's the basis of the case, I disagree.
Assuming that's what he is saying, I and I think most others as well, agree with him.
Actually town doesn't care, or shouldn't care, about the post count. You should be active, but the post count is not that great at measuring activity. Like, Voltaire has not been twice as active as anyone else in the game for example (he's been active obviously, but not that much more than other people).
I don't get how yuma could have thought that whole post was a joke to be honest, it was pretty clear to me that it only referred to the hat thing.
I agree that his sudden surge of activity after the post count is scummy. What do you think of his insistence on his faust case when it's not as strong a case as he makes it appear ?
Vote Count 1.6
2.7 (2): Teproc, yuma
ashersky (1): Faust
Faust (2): ashersky, 2.71828
mail-mi (2): Voltaire, chairs
Voltaire (3): mail-mi, Ichimaru Gin, Lekkit
liopoil (1): Robz888
Not Voting (2):Liopoil, Eevee
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December, 19 at 2:00 p.m. Forum time.
Anyways, faust/Teproc have also been involved in a way I can remember, and Lekkit gets a pass for attempting a case on Voltaire, leaving me to a Vote: liopoil Robz's observations about his play being similar to Toy Story are a nice addition to my own PoE.
ash before I am going to take your tunnel on faust seriously I am going to need you to prove to me why he is a better lynch than all of the other options you are ignoring. I don't doubt that you think he is scum (or are pretending to really think he is scum) but it appears that you aren't giving due process to everything about everyone else. As long as you ignore everyone else and just shout "LYNCH FAUST" I am probably not going to be joining it because it looks like you aren't looking anywhere else and therefore have clouded judgement.... again I am not saying that your case is necessarily bad or wrong, but if you only look in one place how can you be so sure?
Absolutely won't vote for on D1: ashersky, Lekkit, Voltaire, yuma
Just so we're clear ash, you believe faust is scum because he said he was ok with a VT mislynch ?
That's stupid. Like, irredeemably so. So stupid I'm starting to think it's some kind of weird play (not necessarily a scum play mind you). What he said was that he preferred lynching you, a scummy (in his eyes at least) player who would be a VT if town, than chairs, a scummy player who would be a PR if town, even if chairs was slightly more likely to be scum. That's not scummy, that's being risk-averse.
But seriously: Ashersky flavor-claimed before we knew whether VTs had flavor names. This probably means one of two things:
1) ash himself is a VT, so he already knew. In that case, he's an okay mislynch.
2) ash is scum and had a fake claim provided. In that case, lynch him!
I find Faust scummy because:
1) He made a joke to create a D1 pass for himself
2) He was looking for "good" mislynches in Ashersky and Voltaire. He expressed concerns about both of them, not because he had come up with great scum narratives for them, but because they are mislynches that wouldn't hurt town as much
There was some ambiguity as to whether non-PRs had names, and I believe ashersky's flavor-claiming despite that ambiguity means he is not a PR (=either VT or scum). So I voted for ashersky, which e apparently finds scummy (note that he also flavor-claimed early). I find e's reaction since a little over the top and don't understand why he thinks ash is town. I am trying to convince him I'm town, but that seems to be futile endeavour.
So that leaves the 2.7 case. I could probably find merit in it, if 2.7 wasn't the only sane person (i.e., voting with me) in the game up to this point. If he finds a "reason" to switch his vote, and that "reason" sucks, 2.7 rises to #2 or #3 on the scumometer, I think.
Looking at faust vs 2.7/ashersky
So this (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg324161#msg324161) appears to be the post that started it all. It is his first post of the game and I'll quote it for full reference:But seriously: Ashersky flavor-claimed before we knew whether VTs had flavor names. This probably means one of two things:
1) ash himself is a VT, so he already knew. In that case, he's an okay mislynch.
2) ash is scum and had a fake claim provided. In that case, lynch him!
Followed immediately by a vote from ashersky: (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg324163#msg324163)
This is all that ashersky says about it for a long, long time until pressed.... he just keeps kinda repeating over and over that faust is certainly scum... and I just don't see it ash, I don't. It is like you are seeing something that I am not. I am not saying I agree with his logic, but given what faust knew if he is town I don't think it is a horrible thing to surmise... And is easily something I could see town doing and coming to that conclusion.
Once this argument picks up steam again....
The newest piece of info we get is ash saying faust is scrambing (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326250#msg326250) but this comes with zero evidence.
And then we start getting into it a bit more... (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326650#msg326650) why did it take so long to flesh out this argument ash? And I still don't really see anything super, super significant here. Like I kinda get what ash is saying... town wants to lynch scum, scum wants to lynch town. But I don't think scum is ever that blatant about it or that easily caught.
Really I think the case on faust is being overly exaggerated by ashersky, regardless of faust's alignment. To what purpose I am not sure. If ash is town... over confidence? a ploy? if ash is scum.... well crazy ash is town ash so meta manipulation? or if ash is scum with faust epic bussing on the most minute point ever? Wouldn't put it past him, but right now I think this is likely town!ash overselling a case on town!faust would be my gut read of the situation....
So that leaves the 2.7 case. I could probably find merit in it, if 2.7 wasn't the only sane person (i.e., voting with me) in the game up to this point. If he finds a "reason" to switch his vote, and that "reason" sucks, 2.7 rises to #2 or #3 on the scumometer, I think.
also this is kinda... blackmaily?..... and I don't really like it regardless of ash's alignment. In my eyes it basically says "2.7 better keep his vote on faust or else I will turn around and vote for him! So he better not move it!"
It puts 2.7 in a really bad position in regard to ash I think.
As for "I don't think scum is ever that blantant...or that easily caught" goes, you are wrong. See any game I'm scum for examples.
What reason do you have, as town, to so heavily defend faust? That's the question I have for you, and for anyone else pitching defensive walls up around him. I don't see it.
Hopefully, once you lynch me, and you see the dead body of Zhang Fei, the man feared by everyone because of his might, you'll come around to believing me.
Hopefully, once you lynch me, and you see the dead body of Zhang Fei, the man feared by everyone because of his might, you'll come around to believing me.
Am I voting for you? Have I said I found you super scummy?
And why in the world would your dead body help us understand faust any better? I don't get your logic at all ash.
Hopefully, once you lynch me, and you see the dead body of Zhang Fei, the man feared by everyone because of his might, you'll come around to believing me.
Am I voting for you? Have I said I found you super scummy?
And why in the world would your dead body help us understand faust any better? I don't get your logic at all ash.
When you have mod confirmation I'm town, it lets you know that what I'm saying is honest and, to me, absolutely in town's best interest.
Hopefully, once you lynch me, and you see the dead body of Zhang Fei, the man feared by everyone because of his might, you'll come around to believing me.
Am I voting for you? Have I said I found you super scummy?
And why in the world would your dead body help us understand faust any better? I don't get your logic at all ash.
When you have mod confirmation I'm town, it lets you know that what I'm saying is honest and, to me, absolutely in town's best interest.
Sure. but that doesn't mean you are right. Far from it. This is day1. Somewhere recently you said your reads get so much better as the days go on. Everyone has bad reads day1, you aren't an exception my friend, nor am I. So if you die, nothing changes--well not nothing, but certainly nothing significant changes--in my read toward faust. It just doesn't. Allowing it to change so willy-nilly would be extremely irresponsible.
As an example... in Toy Story at the end of day1 you were pretty convinced (maybe not as convinced as you are here, but pretty sure, sure enough to make definitive statements yes?) I was scum and then you died night1. It was mod confirmed you were town. Had town listened to you and your read and just based off that read they would have lynched me, mislynched me. Because I was town and your read was bad. This isn't a criticism, it is a fact. Your read on me was bad. Mine were really bad last game too... So again, your read on faust, even if/when you die will do very little to change my read on faust.... because there would be no proof that your read this game is/was accurate.
And the whole reason I am saying this is to say that I don't think the end result of today needs to be your lynch or faust's lynch. There are other paths to take that I think are better.
Fair and reasoned statements, all of which support my "not lynching yuma' stance. Doesn't change my read on faust, though.
If we're not lynching faust, and we aren't lynching me (which at least faust wants, since he prefers to lynch town than scum), who are we lynching?
I've given my thoughts on each of the cases presented so far. I'm not convinced on any, just as you aren't convinced on mine. So what do we do?
I don't have a reason to defend faust per se... but you are throwing a fit asking every single person to vote for him and basically hijacking the game and refusing to let us do anything else until he is lynchedI just want to point something out here. Yuma, I know you were v/la for a majority of D1 so you might not have felt this as much. But this game was dead. Like no real activity until I picked up on Faust and started bugging people for their opinions. Now, I know I am no IC that has the authority to really do that, but we had to start somewhere. I am in no way hijacking the game. I just really want people to post. Something. Anything. Might as well be about what I saw as my top scum read. You can disagree with me. You can argue with me. You can call me scum for pushing you for information. You can even put out cases against alternative scum. Just do something. And you have. I am happy with your contributions. And teproc has. And a couple other people. But what about the say, 8 null reads that you have because they aren't posting? I have null reads on the following people due to lack of content: eevee, mail-mi, lekkit (actually scummy on him because of his Voltaire case but he fits with the non-posters), [/b]Ichimaru, chairs, robz, liopoil[/b]. Some of them have weighed in a bit on the Faust case basically to say they don't like it, but have done nothing else. At all. I can't do this right now because I am on a kindle, but go back to your post count and figure out who has the lowest post count between that time and now and vote them. I am not trying to hijack anything, but there is nothing to hijack. NOTHING AT ALL. No content. Everyone is lurking. Sure flavor talk may have put a bad taste in your mouth. Get over it. And post.
Rant done. Sorry I messed up the bold there a bit.ugh auto correct
I don't have a reason to defend faust per se... but you are throwing a fit asking every single person to vote for him and basically hijacking the game and refusing to let us do anything else until he is lynchedI just want to point something out here. Yuma, I know you were v/la for a majority of D1 so you might not have felt this as much. But this game was dead. Like no real activity until I picked up on Faust and started bugging people for their opinions. Now, I know I am no IC that has the authority to really do that, but we had to start somewhere. I am in no way hijacking the game. I just really want people to post.
well he commented extra because I pushed him to. So he hijacked it through meI don't have a reason to defend faust per se... but you are throwing a fit asking every single person to vote for him and basically hijacking the game and refusing to let us do anything else until he is lynchedI just want to point something out here. Yuma, I know you were v/la for a majority of D1 so you might not have felt this as much. But this game was dead. Like no real activity until I picked up on Faust and started bugging people for their opinions. Now, I know I am no IC that has the authority to really do that, but we had to start somewhere. I am in no way hijacking the game. I just really want people to post.
I never said you hijacked the thread. I said ashersky did.
he didn't really start posting until after right here. What, 7 hours ago. A real hijackGuys, let's lynch Faust, then find other scum D2 based on his wagon, interactions, and whatever happens N1.somehow I don't think that will happen.....no one seems to be picking up our little wagon. Pretty anti-town of them if you ask me. Yuma was complaining about no wagons, we could have had one right here but instead they try to build one on liopoil?
well he commented extra because I pushed him to. So he hijacked it through meI don't have a reason to defend faust per se... but you are throwing a fit asking every single person to vote for him and basically hijacking the game and refusing to let us do anything else until he is lynchedI just want to point something out here. Yuma, I know you were v/la for a majority of D1 so you might not have felt this as much. But this game was dead. Like no real activity until I picked up on Faust and started bugging people for their opinions. Now, I know I am no IC that has the authority to really do that, but we had to start somewhere. I am in no way hijacking the game. I just really want people to post.
I never said you hijacked the thread. I said ashersky did.
What reason do you have, as town, to so heavily defend faust? That's the question I have for you, and for anyone else pitching defensive walls up around him. I don't see it.
I don't have a reason to defend faust per se... but you are throwing a fit asking every single person to vote for him and basically hijacking the game and refusing to let us do anything else until he is lynched, so I do feel the need to go back, look at the situation and try and figure out if what you are saying has merit and I think it doesn't. I don't think that is defending and I don't know why you feel the need to accuse anyone that thinks differently than you do to be "defending" someone you obviously think is scum
Let me try again... why are you talking about this hijacking thing...? why is it significant for you to talk about it?the hijacking language is what got me. Even while you were sick, while you had no home internet, and all that you posted more than most people in this game. I really really REALLY don't like lurkers/people who quit playing. It detracts from the game and enjoyment of everyone. And I also felt you were unjustly accusing ashersky for something he is not doing. He is actually posting. The thing is, the more you talk about why Faust is not scum without any sort of case against anyone else (I guess you have me) what does ash have to talk about? Say you come out with a case against insomniac. (Used as a place holder and because everyone else is sleeping through this game) insomniac has said this, that, and the other and you find him super scummy. You state why you think that person is scummier, you garner some support, and get people talking. Awesome. That hasn't happened. Because there is no other case with anyone being scummier.
It doesn't really involve you, as it was directed toward ashersky. And it wasn't really an accusation at ashersky as it was me explaining why I was talking about faust--as he perceived I was defending him. So why is it important to you?
this does include pre-game posts
1. Voltaire - 83
2. Robz888 - 33
3. mail-mi - 24
4. Chairs - 29
5. Ashersky - 46
6. Yuma - 23
7. Ichimaru Gin - 17
8. Lekkit - 18
9. Liopoil - 11
10. Teproc - 47
11. 2.7 - 21
12. Eevee - 18
13. Faust - 21
Sub-10 posters over the last two days:
Voltaire
Robz
Mail-mi
Chairs
Ichimaru
Lekkit
Liopoil
Eevee
I will lynch from these players unless something crazy happens.
So unvote
Let me try again... why are you talking about this hijacking thing...? why is it significant for you to talk about it?the hijacking language is what got me. Even while you were sick, while you had no home internet, and all that you posted more than most people in this game. I really really REALLY don't like lurkers/people who quit playing. It detracts from the game and enjoyment of everyone. And I also felt you were unjustly accusing ashersky for something he is not doing. He is actually posting. The thing is, the more you talk about why Faust is not scum without any sort of case against anyone else (I guess you have me) what does ash have to talk about? Say you come out with a case against insomniac. (Used as a place holder and because everyone else is sleeping through this game) insomniac has said this, that, and the other and you find him super scummy. You state why you think that person is scummier, you garner some support, and get people talking. Awesome. That hasn't happened. Because there is no other case with anyone being scummier.
It doesn't really involve you, as it was directed toward ashersky. And it wasn't really an accusation at ashersky as it was me explaining why I was talking about faust--as he perceived I was defending him. So why is it important to you?
but basically I thought the hijacking language was unfair sure to the low activity from anyone else. You can't hijack something no one else owns
What reason do you have, as town, to so heavily defend faust? That's the question I have for you, and for anyone else pitching defensive walls up around him. I don't see it.
Right now I will vote: lekkit.
He is a very, right? I just haven't played with him. His case on Voltaire was totally baseless. I asked him about the holes I saw, he responded with some quotes, but no original language.
So
1) putting out a pretty poor case against someone but making it look super fancy with all the quotes.
2) not defending it when questioned.
3) lurking
So that leaves the 2.7 case. I could probably find merit in it, if 2.7 wasn't the only sane person (i.e., voting with me) in the game up to this point. If he finds a "reason" to switch his vote, and that "reason" sucks, 2.7 rises to #2 or #3 on the scumometer, I think.
also this is kinda... blackmaily?..... and I don't really like it regardless of ash's alignment. In my eyes it basically says "2.7 better keep his vote on faust or else I will turn around and vote for him! So he better not move it!"
It puts 2.7 in a really bad position in regard to ash I think.
Sure it is. But basically, he's all I've got as far as support goes.
while I agree that Voltaire had done some anti towny things, he has not flip flopped as lekkit implied. What made it seem worse was the way lekkit quoted some stuff, then went back out of order chronologically to show "inconsistencies" that Voltaire displayed. Then when I questioned him about it, he just replied writing the same things again, but not going down on record himself. Hiding behind quotes. Scummy.
[Stuff]
With all that said, I think Voltaire has done some things that are not really pro-town. But that does not always make you scummy. However expressing reads with so much determination as he has, backing away in the next post, and then going back to the super strong scum reads doesn't sound good in my ears. So far I think Voltaire is the scummiest around, and I will give him my vote.
Vote: Voltaire
yeah, when I read that I was not happy with the position ash put me in, but at some point my vote was probably going to come off Faust. I have been brewing about lekkit for a while now. Right now seemed like a good enough time to really voice my concernsRight now I will vote: lekkit.
He is a very, right? I just haven't played with him. His case on Voltaire was totally baseless. I asked him about the holes I saw, he responded with some quotes, but no original language.
So
1) putting out a pretty poor case against someone but making it look super fancy with all the quotes.
2) not defending it when questioned.
3) lurking
ash you can vote for 2.7 now...So that leaves the 2.7 case. I could probably find merit in it, if 2.7 wasn't the only sane person (i.e., voting with me) in the game up to this point. If he finds a "reason" to switch his vote, and that "reason" sucks, 2.7 rises to #2 or #3 on the scumometer, I think.
also this is kinda... blackmaily?..... and I don't really like it regardless of ash's alignment. In my eyes it basically says "2.7 better keep his vote on faust or else I will turn around and vote for him! So he better not move it!"
It puts 2.7 in a really bad position in regard to ash I think.
Sure it is. But basically, he's all I've got as far as support goes.
I still don't see why anyone is voting Voltaire. I can understand most of the other votes. I mean, who doesn't want to sheep robz? I am just surprised everyone else hasn't joined in the sheeping.and the other votes all have something to them. Although I forget the mall-mi thing
while I agree that Voltaire had done some anti towny things, he has not flip flopped as lekkit implied. What made it seem worse was the way lekkit quoted some stuff, then went back out of order chronologically to show "inconsistencies" that Voltaire displayed. Then when I questioned him about it, he just replied writing the same things again, but not going down on record himself. Hiding behind quotes. Scummy.
[Stuff]
With all that said, I think Voltaire has done some things that are not really pro-town. But that does not always make you scummy. However expressing reads with so much determination as he has, backing away in the next post, and then going back to the super strong scum reads doesn't sound good in my ears. So far I think Voltaire is the scummiest around, and I will give him my vote.
Vote: Voltaire
Right now I will vote: lekkit.
He is a very, right? I just haven't played with him. His case on Voltaire was totally baseless. I asked him about the holes I saw, he responded with some quotes, but no original language.
So
1) putting out a pretty poor case against someone but making it look super fancy with all the quotes.
2) not defending it when questioned.
3) lurking
Wow, zuma is defending me - it's a whole new feeling.
Anyway, ashersky lynch is not going to happen, right? So let me vote: liopoil. Not because I think the case is particularly strong (I don't see a really convincing case right now), but because he is lurking and because I have a town read on Robz, who started this wagon.
You are correct that the quote you pulled from faust is the one that started it all.
Here are things I see happening in that post:
--he is rolefishing. Talking about VTs and claims and "here's what ash probably is" is all rolefishing. That's scummy.
--in is point #1, he says "...he's an okay mislynch." That wording is specifically what tipped me off. That, expanded, is "He is an okay mislynch." But why, I ask, is decided on the okay mislynch of the day a town thing to do, especially so early in the game?
--he ignores the "ash is a PR and knew it was safe to claim" possibility, which is clearly a possibility, but he ignores it.
--he gives zero reasons for why lynching ashersky could be bad for town. He even states that "[if] ash himself is a VT...he's an okay mislynch."
As far as why I fleshed out the argument, I only did because people kept hounding me. That's the only reason. As for "I don't think scum is ever that blantant...or that easily caught" goes, you are wrong. See any game I'm scum for examples.
What reason do you have, as town, to so heavily defend faust? That's the question I have for you, and for anyone else pitching defensive walls up around him. I don't see it.
Vote: liopoilnot quite, I said something about ashersky's meta after that I think. but I can't exactly argue that I've been contributing today, yes. However, I think I've been struggling to make early contributions in any game as of late. Just really don't have much of anything that I find worth of note.
Now that we can talk about Toy Story mafia, my scum partner liopoil did a good job in later days, but I think he really struggled to make early contributions as scum. He is struggling with that here, too. In fact his most recent contribution was only to point out that he doesn't have any contributions.
Uh, I think the case against you, liopoil, is just a bit more sophisticated than that. It's not just that "you're lurking." Lots of people are lurking for various reasons. I've actually had very little time for this game, so.I realize this, hence:
The case against you is that, well you're low post count and not much content. AND I think this is something scum liopoil does on Day 1. I remember in Toy Story Mafia wishing you could have a little bit more meatier content on Day 1, worrying that you could and should be the obvious lynch on "lynch the lurker whose posts are most strained to be contributions" basis.
Later, I think you did really get into the game and do a great job. And I think as town, even when you are a lurker, it's not quite like this.
I'm lurking, something I did as scum last game. And that I have done as town previously. I don't think it speaks to my alignment much.The case is that I'm lurking, which is something that I did as scum last game.
I'm not very persuaded by ash's case on faust. What I'm trying to figure out is what ash's case says about ash. Is this something he does as town? I think it's more a town!ash thing to have like a super-confident, likely wrong read on Day 1. So maybe he's just trying to signal to us that he is indeed town. That's all I get from it. But I always see ash as town.
I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.
I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.
I reread mail-mi. I thought he started off scummier than he finished, still not quite a townread but I prefer liopoil.
well dang, sorry guys. It's exam week, but I still should have contributed more than I have been. catching up. Serious thank you for putting me at L-2, so I have a motive to contribute... because lynching town is bad. It really should not work that way, but it did.
e: I get being frustrated at lurkers. Once upon a time, I actually was near the top of the post count a few games in a row, and I was frustrated at lurkers too. But now that I've been there, I realize it's just something we have to deal with. Is it bad for town? yes. Should it happen? no. Will it inevitably happen every game? yes. We're playing a game on the internet, and while everyone made a commitment in signing up, they aren't really committed in the sense that nothing terrible happens to them if they lurk.
That said, it still is rude of me and others to put this game to the side and not contribute. I'm going to try to get back into this game now, something that I've done successfully a few times as both alignments.
I refuse to lynch someone for IRL.
I don't really have an excuse. my comment about exam week was immediately followed by essentially saying that it doesn't make my lurking excusable.not asking to be lynched though!
I refuse to lynch someone for IRL.
Shame on all of you voting liopoil.
It's not the amount of posts lio has made that made me vote for him.
Serious ash? Why are you trying to derail really the only good wagon we've had D1?now this is ridiculous. If you don't want to lynch someone, and there's a wagon on them, of course you should try to derail it. And at some point in every D1 there will be a wagon that is the only good wagon we've had. Should we always lynch the first player to get a wagon on them?
Who do you suggest we lynch? Faust? I don't think that's about to happen right now.
I refuse to lynch someone for IRL.
Shame on all of you voting liopoil.
I'd really only say shame for those voting after his "I've been busy" post.
ash, it really doesn't look like a faust lynch is going through. Nor chairs. Who do you want lynched? At one point you'd called Teproc almost as scummy as them. What happened to that?
Here goes some very rough POE:I'll note that not all of the players 1-6 have been heavy contributers, and that he doesn't mention e, and doesn't explain why the things he says about faust, teproc, and lekkit are deserving of a D1 pass.
Players:
1. Voltaire
2. Robz888
3. mail-mi
4. Chairs
5. Ashersky
6. Yuma
7. Ichimaru Gin
8. Lekkit
9. Liopoil
10. Teproc
11. 2.7
12. Eevee
13. Faust
Players 1-7 eliminated due to activity / general controversy surrounding them (and IG for being new, I agree it's no fun to start of your mafia career by getting lynched).
I wouldn't oppose my lynch if I didn't know my alignment, I know my performance this far has been lacking. Day 1s, I just don't see much happening.
Anyways, faust/Teproc have also been involved in a way I can remember, and Lekkit gets a pass for attempting a case on Voltaire, leaving me to a Vote: liopoil Robz's observations about his play being similar to Toy Story are a nice addition to my own PoE.
this, and a couple similar posts by voltaire give me a further townread on him, because he's being pretty bold in saying things about the setup in a situation where we don't definitively know how it works. Saying we all have a flavor name as scum is potentially dangerous if we didn't all have a flavor name.That sounds.. very hard for scum that doesn't know the show (game?).
Jeez people, everything will be explained.
Pm's are going out, and hopefully you learned from last time don't freak out when you get a colored Pm, The Battle of the Red Cliffs is the showdown between the massive Wei army(Bad Guys!), against the combined forces of the Wu naval fleet(Good Guys!) and some Shu officers(also good guys!)
I thought this was the fake claim info, plus a no face post later.
All before PMs.
But we also have a flavor name. Can we claim flavor name? Unless scum were provided with fake flavor names, they're caught. The "No Face" is just to remind people that's the flavor for VT (same as last game) I assume.
ash, here's eevee's vote on me:Here goes some very rough POE:I'll note that not all of the players 1-6 have been heavy contributers, and that he doesn't mention e, and doesn't explain why the things he says about faust, teproc, and lekkit are deserving of a D1 pass.
Players:
1. Voltaire
2. Robz888
3. mail-mi
4. Chairs
5. Ashersky
6. Yuma
7. Ichimaru Gin
8. Lekkit
9. Liopoil
10. Teproc
11. 2.7
12. Eevee
13. Faust
Players 1-7 eliminated due to activity / general controversy surrounding them (and IG for being new, I agree it's no fun to start of your mafia career by getting lynched).
I wouldn't oppose my lynch if I didn't know my alignment, I know my performance this far has been lacking. Day 1s, I just don't see much happening.
Anyways, faust/Teproc have also been involved in a way I can remember, and Lekkit gets a pass for attempting a case on Voltaire, leaving me to a Vote: liopoil Robz's observations about his play being similar to Toy Story are a nice addition to my own PoE.
This is why POE isn't so good D1. later, it's awesome. not now.
I agree. Of course everyone should do as they see best. I don't want to tell anyone what to do, just expressing *my* opinion. I think Ash is reading too much into IRL, as you yourself saidSerious ash? Why are you trying to derail really the only good wagon we've had D1?now this is ridiculous. If you don't want to lynch someone, and there's a wagon on them, of course you should try to derail it. And at some point in every D1 there will be a wagon that is the only good wagon we've had. Should we always lynch the first player to get a wagon on them?
Who do you suggest we lynch? Faust? I don't think that's about to happen right now.
right, I don't really have an excuse. my comment about exam week was immediately followed by essentially saying that it doesn't make my lurking excusable. and again, of course I shouldn't need to be at L-2, and I'm sure I would have caught up sooner or later regardless of people voting for me. being at L-2 made it sooner, not later.
now I'm going to go way way back and comment on posts as I read back to now.
I'd appreciate an explanation. If this is because you think that we're making the mistake of lynching someone for lurking when it is only caused by IRL problems that they can't control. Fine.
Otherwise, I don't really get it. I'm pretty sure that's the reason though.
I'd appreciate an explanation. If this is because you think that we're making the mistake of lynching someone for lurking when it is only caused by IRL problems that they can't control. Fine.
Otherwise, I don't really get it. I'm pretty sure that's the reason though.
You are correct.
If someone presents a new case, or re-presents an old one I missed that is unrelated to the fact that liopoil has been posting less than the norm, I would listen and understand/accept people voting for those reasons, whether I agree or not.
I firmly believe the sanctity of IRL VLA needs to be defended (by not lynching for it, but also by not lying/manipulating the excuse) to keep these games as fun and open to all as possible.
Small town read on Teproc I think. Maybe. But a big one on Robz.why? just because robz told us about flavor? just because teproc was anti flavor claim?
I'm not swamped, or really even close to that. I don't know why ashersky is giving me a pass. I agree with not questioning IRL reasons. I also think that if someone is going to have limited access they should post this in the V/LA thread either before or after the V/LA. And that in the V/LA thread there is no lying or stretching the truth allowed. I haven't posted there because I don't think that exams are an excuse for me in this case. sometimes exams are a reason for V/LA, for sure, and I would totally excuse lurking for someone else if they needed to study for exams a ton. In this case though, it isn't a huge deal.I'd appreciate an explanation. If this is because you think that we're making the mistake of lynching someone for lurking when it is only caused by IRL problems that they can't control. Fine.
Otherwise, I don't really get it. I'm pretty sure that's the reason though.
You are correct.
If someone presents a new case, or re-presents an old one I missed that is unrelated to the fact that liopoil has been posting less than the norm, I would listen and understand/accept people voting for those reasons, whether I agree or not.
I firmly believe the sanctity of IRL VLA needs to be defended (by not lynching for it, but also by not lying/manipulating the excuse) to keep these games as fun and open to all as possible.
Fair enough. And Liopoil, I know you've said some different things about this. I can understand the importance of Finals.
I guess I just question exactly how much time they take. But that's only me. It's quite possible that you're taking a huge number of units and need to be studying almost constantly in preparation. Or, I could even understand that the game is also a distraction, something going on in the back of your mind. At any rate, I don't want to be the one that kills someone just cause they were busy with school.
Ash and I , I think agree that we shouldn't lynch people for IRL and Finals are very important. However, we disagree as to the exact severity of time required. And that's fine. Please tell us if you really are completely swamped!
I firmly believe the sanctity of IRL VLA needs to be defended (by not lynching for it, but also by not lying/manipulating the excuse) to keep these games as fun and open to all as possible.
I refuse to lynch someone for IRL.I don't really have an excuse. my comment about exam week was immediately followed by essentially saying that it doesn't make my lurking excusable.not asking to be lynched though!
really though, I do have time. If I didn't, I would have posted something in the V/LA thread.
Small town read on Teproc I think. Maybe. But a big one on Robz.why? just because robz told us about flavor? just because teproc was anti flavor claim?
I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.Before I've read anything else
I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.
I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.Before I've read anything else
I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.
I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)
I would like everyone to read this: YES.
I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)
I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.Before I've read anything else
I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.
I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)
I would like everyone to read this: YES.
I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)
I think I only bring up biases when I'm scum.
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.since when do we always let mail-mi live??
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.since when do we always let mail-mi live??
And, only one Final to go. . .ok. This rubbed me the wrong way. It almost felt like a "let's get the least bad lynch in." That type of behavior is not pro town. That is one of the reasons that I was voting Faust. The deadline is in less than 48 hours, but there is still time to build a case on someone else and we do not need to comment ourselves with an ok VT lynch. Although, I can see how a new player will feel the pressure here to make sure we get a lynch.
I'm voting Liopoil because.
1. He has a very low post count.
2. The posts that he has made are relatively low on content
3. When attacked, he responded withwell dang, sorry guys. It's exam week, but I still should have contributed more than I have been. catching up. Serious thank you for putting me at L-2, so I have a motive to contribute... because lynching town is bad. It really should not work that way, but it did.
e: I get being frustrated at lurkers. Once upon a time, I actually was near the top of the post count a few games in a row, and I was frustrated at lurkers too. But now that I've been there, I realize it's just something we have to deal with. Is it bad for town? yes. Should it happen? no. Will it inevitably happen every game? yes. We're playing a game on the internet, and while everyone made a commitment in signing up, they aren't really committed in the sense that nothing terrible happens to them if they lurk.
That said, it still is rude of me and others to put this game to the side and not contribute. I'm going to try to get back into this game now, something that I've done successfully a few times as both alignments.
I do understand the pressures of exams. I just got out of one ten minutes ago. However, I feel that this is still a poor reason for lurking. I mean, I know how much time I waste doing other things all the time--even during Final's week. You can almost always find a couple minutes to check in and post something that really adds to the game. Generally, I found this response pretty scummy in that it's excuses didn't really add up.
And when it comes down to it, like I said, we need a lynch. Even a lurker lynch is usually better than no lynch. So let's see this finished before the deadline.
You know what, I bet neither liopoil nor mail-mi flip scum, they're just too easy.
Let's try semi-random last minute lynch again. Vote: Lekkit, an un-scrutinized lurker.
I like the concept too, but yeah, wrong guy. who's the right guy? not sure yet.You know what, I bet neither liopoil nor mail-mi flip scum, they're just too easy.
Let's try semi-random last minute lynch again. Vote: Lekkit, an un-scrutinized lurker.
I'm fine with the concept, not fine with the candidate. He's not a lurker. Go re-read him. His posts have content. Specifically read his case against me. It's wrong, but can you imagine scum making it? I think it's far more likely to come from town.
The case on mail-mi: being normal mail-mi, and also appearing to be trying. That's how you find scum!mail-mi. For D1, I'm reasonably happy with this.here's what I found when I looked for voltaire's case on mail-mi. What did he say that struck you as trying too hard to be normal mail-mi?
/somuchin.he can't be scum!
Please don't make me scum again!
You know what, I bet neither liopoil nor mail-mi flip scum, they're just too easy.
Let's try semi-random last minute lynch again. Vote: Lekkit, an un-scrutinized lurker.
I'm fine with the concept, not fine with the candidate. He's not a lurker. Go re-read him. His posts have content. Specifically read his case against me. It's wrong, but can you imagine scum making it? I think it's far more likely to come from town.
If we want random lurker eevee is our guy
You're probably right on that. And don't think I was considering just how much development could happen in 48 hours. If there is a strong case against someone else, I will certainly change my vote to reflect that. In hindsight, I probably made things sound a little more open and shut then they actually are.And, only one Final to go. . .ok. This rubbed me the wrong way. It almost felt like a "let's get the least bad lynch in." That type of behavior is not pro town. That is one of the reasons that I was voting Faust. The deadline is in less than 48 hours, but there is still time to build a case on someone else and we do not need to comment ourselves with an ok VT lynch. Although, I can see how a new player will feel the pressure here to make sure we get a lynch.
I'm voting Liopoil because.
1. He has a very low post count.
2. The posts that he has made are relatively low on content
3. When attacked, he responded withwell dang, sorry guys. It's exam week, but I still should have contributed more than I have been. catching up. Serious thank you for putting me at L-2, so I have a motive to contribute... because lynching town is bad. It really should not work that way, but it did.
e: I get being frustrated at lurkers. Once upon a time, I actually was near the top of the post count a few games in a row, and I was frustrated at lurkers too. But now that I've been there, I realize it's just something we have to deal with. Is it bad for town? yes. Should it happen? no. Will it inevitably happen every game? yes. We're playing a game on the internet, and while everyone made a commitment in signing up, they aren't really committed in the sense that nothing terrible happens to them if they lurk.
That said, it still is rude of me and others to put this game to the side and not contribute. I'm going to try to get back into this game now, something that I've done successfully a few times as both alignments.
I do understand the pressures of exams. I just got out of one ten minutes ago. However, I feel that this is still a poor reason for lurking. I mean, I know how much time I waste doing other things all the time--even during Final's week. You can almost always find a couple minutes to check in and post something that really adds to the game. Generally, I found this response pretty scummy in that it's excuses didn't really add up.
And when it comes down to it, like I said, we need a lynch. Even a lurker lynch is usually better than no lynch. So let's see this finished before the deadline.
As for the case against you, maybe it's right and maybe it's wrong. It's probably wrong. It did take a good amount of work, yoeah, that tends toward townie probably. But I don't know, it's very safe. He's sort of parked himself on it, you know?
lekkit is not a newbie. He took a break, and is backAs for the case against you, maybe it's right and maybe it's wrong. It's probably wrong. It did take a good amount of work, yoeah, that tends toward townie probably. But I don't know, it's very safe. He's sort of parked himself on it, you know?
He also has the "wait, what?" where he clearly thinks I've scum-slipped. Though scum-slips are never a reason to vote for someone, I see newbie town as on the lookout for that sort of easy thing.
(also Lekkit if you prefer "she" apologies, just let us know!)
Are there some specific issues people would like to see me address?
lekkit is not a newbie. He took a break, and is back
I haven't been VLA, if that's what you are asking? Just.. day 1, I just don't see things I find worth commenting that much. I've chimed in every time I've had something reasonable to offer.Are there some specific issues people would like to see me address?
Where have you been/what have you been doing, I guess.
Why shouldn't we lynch you today?
that seems very laissez faireI haven't been VLA, if that's what you are asking? Just.. day 1, I just don't see things I find worth commenting that much. I've chimed in every time I've had something reasonable to offer.Are there some specific issues people would like to see me address?
Where have you been/what have you been doing, I guess.
Why shouldn't we lynch you today?
I won't claim that my play has been particularly towny, self meta arguments are dumb. If you want a semi-random lynch of someone who is matching both their town- and scummetas and is not standing out enough, I guess I'm a fine choice. That's the method that landed me on liopoil, pretty much. I'm not scum though.
Ash is clearly faking his certainty to send us some sort of a message. The problem with artificially creating reads to send a message is that.. well, he is not being genuine, and if he is scum, he has all the motivation in the world to manipulate us into thinking otherwise.
I agree he is exaggerating his certainty to send us a message, but sadly I don't think we can really read much into the message. To me it's a very loud and distracting null-tell (that could help determining the alignments of other players once we get some flips and wagons, people often react to ash very strongly until they realize what he is doing).
I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.Before I've read anything else
I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.
I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)
I would like everyone to read this: YES.
I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)
I think I only bring up biases when I'm scum.
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.since when do we always let mail-mi live??
If we want random lurker eevee is our guy
I'm not swamped, or really even close to that. I don't know why ashersky is giving me a pass. I agree with not questioning IRL reasons. I also think that if someone is going to have limited access they should post this in the V/LA thread either before or after the V/LA. And that in the V/LA thread there is no lying or stretching the truth allowed. I haven't posted there because I don't think that exams are an excuse for me in this case. sometimes exams are a reason for V/LA, for sure, and I would totally excuse lurking for someone else if they needed to study for exams a ton. In this case though, it isn't a huge deal.I'd appreciate an explanation. If this is because you think that we're making the mistake of lynching someone for lurking when it is only caused by IRL problems that they can't control. Fine.
Otherwise, I don't really get it. I'm pretty sure that's the reason though.
You are correct.
If someone presents a new case, or re-presents an old one I missed that is unrelated to the fact that liopoil has been posting less than the norm, I would listen and understand/accept people voting for those reasons, whether I agree or not.
I firmly believe the sanctity of IRL VLA needs to be defended (by not lynching for it, but also by not lying/manipulating the excuse) to keep these games as fun and open to all as possible.
Fair enough. And Liopoil, I know you've said some different things about this. I can understand the importance of Finals.
I guess I just question exactly how much time they take. But that's only me. It's quite possible that you're taking a huge number of units and need to be studying almost constantly in preparation. Or, I could even understand that the game is also a distraction, something going on in the back of your mind. At any rate, I don't want to be the one that kills someone just cause they were busy with school.
Ash and I , I think agree that we shouldn't lynch people for IRL and Finals are very important. However, we disagree as to the exact severity of time required. And that's fine. Please tell us if you really are completely swamped!
liopoil is looking scummy here in response. He is being too level headed, too calm (or rather appears to be forcing himself to be calm). Reminds me of how he reacted in Back to Basics, he was really trying to be rational and logical. As town I think he would be enraged and much more abrasive and difficult.
and I do think that liopoil is someone I would vote for... but it isn't based off what others are voting him for, it is based off how he has responded to being put at L-2.
I said this in Toy Story speccy QT:Quoteliopoil is looking scummy here in response. He is being too level headed, too calm (or rather appears to be forcing himself to be calm). Reminds me of how he reacted in Back to Basics, he was really trying to be rational and logical. As town I think he would be enraged and much more abrasive and difficult.
Here again he is very level headed and calm. The times he has been town and had suspicion on him I felt he was much more dynamic and enraged.
Every town player there right now is trying too hard to finger scum. To catch them. That won't work d1. Flip it around. Don't look for that one good case for somebody being scum, look for reasons to eliminate people. Give them reasons to be town - or at least a reason not to lynch. PoE down based on not who's "most likely" to be scum, but instead by eliminating those "less likely" to be scum.
The trick is making reasonable arguments for certain people to be removed from lynch candidacy. Arguments that most agree on. Post count alone gets them a d1 pass from me. Can scum post a lot? Yes, but it's harder. And while one might be scum, there's a very, very low likelihood that two are. So look elsewhere.
I think that I'm only less levelheaded when I'm town and the case against me is terrible. In this game, the case against me isn't ridiculous, just wrong. In those other games, I was frustrated because the suspicion on me was totally unwarrented I thought, and so responded pretty heavily. I mean, how are you expecting me to react as town? should I be saying that it's absurd to vote for me for lurking?
So, if everyone starts out at 25% chance, we can assign a number higher or lower than than for our reads, eHalcyon-style.I like this idea. The actual percentage is about 27%, but that hardly matters. I think we should do this, I think it's a better form of popsquiz.
How do people feel about doing that?
Vote Count 1.10
2.7... (2): Teproc, yuma
mail-mi (1): Voltaire
Voltaire (2): mail-mi, Lekkit
Ichimaru Gin (1): ashersky
Eevee (2): Robz888, liopoil
liopoil (4): Eevee,chairs, faust, Ichimaru Gin
Not Voting (1):2.7....
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December, 19 at 2:00 p.m. Forum time.
That liopoil wagon is terrible. Eevee and chairs are hardcore lurking. Chairs and faust are hardcore scum reads. Ichimaru Gin is new and wouldn't know the meta-argument using to lynch lio in the first place.
And 2.7 isn't even voting, and we're less than 2 days to deadline. Terrible D1, as Robz said.
So, if everyone starts out at 25% chance, we can assign a number higher or lower than than for our reads, eHalcyon-style.I like this idea. The actual percentage is about 27%, but that hardly matters. I think we should do this, I think it's a better form of popsquiz.
How do people feel about doing that?
I don't get off. I assume because I had a clear point where you could say "he wasn't posting then, he is posting now" is the reason I don't get the pass. So you need to make a decision. Town narrative- 2.7 saw the very unproductive day and did not want it to go to waste so totally reengaged with the game in an attempt to get the game rolling. Scum narrative- 2.7 knew he would be judged by his previous game as well as by his current ongoing game where he has established himself as someone not entirely useless. So he fabricates a case against someone in an attempt to appear useful and active.
...
I also think it is reasonable to remove 2.7 because 1) he has shown that he is willing to put himself out there for reads even if people think he is scummy for it and 2) you know he will keep posting D2 with more reads and if he is scum (which is by no means certain) extra reads from scum on D2 are useful because it gives us more content to reference (not that I am scum, I am just trying to be as impartial as possible).
That liopoil wagon is terrible. Eevee and chairs are hardcore lurking. Chairs and faust are hardcore scum reads. Ichimaru Gin is new and wouldn't know the meta-argument using to lynch lio in the first place.
And 2.7 isn't even voting, and we're less than 2 days to deadline. Terrible D1, as Robz said.
Well it isn't like you are helping. All you have done is shout "lynch faust" over and over again and then call every wagon and case that has come up "horrible."
Vote for 2.7 now?
good point. In my mind I was not sheeping the case, it just so happened that ash saw the same thing I did. I posted my case 4 1/2 days after ashersky placed his vote. I was doing my reread, and as you yourself had mentioned, things were pretty dead. Faust's post was the scummiest I saw, and I jumped on it.I don't get off. I assume because I had a clear point where you could say "he wasn't posting then, he is posting now" is the reason I don't get the pass. So you need to make a decision. Town narrative- 2.7 saw the very unproductive day and did not want it to go to waste so totally reengaged with the game in an attempt to get the game rolling. Scum narrative- 2.7 knew he would be judged by his previous game as well as by his current ongoing game where he has established himself as someone not entirely useless. So he fabricates a case against someone in an attempt to appear useful and active.
...
I also think it is reasonable to remove 2.7 because 1) he has shown that he is willing to put himself out there for reads even if people think he is scummy for it and 2) you know he will keep posting D2 with more reads and if he is scum (which is by no means certain) extra reads from scum on D2 are useful because it gives us more content to reference (not that I am scum, I am just trying to be as impartial as possible).
I am trying to look at both narratives and I do appreciate that you are posting more if you are town. It certainly helps. Like I said above, I haven't really had a chance to start looking at who is the scummiest out of the players left for me to look at. That will have to be a task for tomorrow after work cause bedtime is about here.
I would also add to the potential scum narrative that it isn't just fabricating a case (your words not mine) but also that you sheeped a case that was more or less already around from ash but not fully fleshed out... This is a great place for mafia to jump onto if they are scum and looking for something to talk about... taking someone's opinion and running with it.
So, if everyone starts out at 25% chance, we can assign a number higher or lower than than for our reads, eHalcyon-style.I like this idea. The actual percentage is about 27%, but that hardly matters. I think we should do this, I think it's a better form of popsquiz.
How do people feel about doing that?
I like the idea of getting people to put their reads out, but I don't like the idea of forcing them to do it a certain style. I for one won't be putting percentages onto my reads... why? Because they would be completely arbitrary... I don't think like that and wouldn't have meaning but instead would have meaning attached to them by others that wasn't intended....
Let people scum-hunt the way they want to. Call out those who aren't at all, but let others do it how they want to...
I didn't quite get it. Is it prevent chance we think they are scum?So, if everyone starts out at 25% chance, we can assign a number higher or lower than than for our reads, eHalcyon-style.I like this idea. The actual percentage is about 27%, but that hardly matters. I think we should do this, I think it's a better form of popsquiz.
How do people feel about doing that?
I like the idea of getting people to put their reads out, but I don't like the idea of forcing them to do it a certain style. I for one won't be putting percentages onto my reads... why? Because they would be completely arbitrary... I don't think like that and wouldn't have meaning but instead would have meaning attached to them by others that wasn't intended....
Let people scum-hunt the way they want to. Call out those who aren't at all, but let others do it how they want to...
Hey, it was just an idea to get people talking, putting down reads for the record, etc. Clearly it didn't work, as the day just stagnated anyway. At least I tried.
Bolded that for you.I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.Before I've read anything else
I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.
I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)
I would like everyone to read this: YES.
I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)
I think I only bring up biases when I'm scum.
and I think bringing up the metastat of mail-mi not being alive at the end of the game is scummy... I don't think these games offer a large enough sampling size nor a reliable enough set of variables to draw any conclusions from in this area... unless you are trying to manipulate people into thinking a certain set of conclusions...
I didn't quite get it. Is it prevent chance we think they are scum?So, if everyone starts out at 25% chance, we can assign a number higher or lower than than for our reads, eHalcyon-style.I like this idea. The actual percentage is about 27%, but that hardly matters. I think we should do this, I think it's a better form of popsquiz.
How do people feel about doing that?
I like the idea of getting people to put their reads out, but I don't like the idea of forcing them to do it a certain style. I for one won't be putting percentages onto my reads... why? Because they would be completely arbitrary... I don't think like that and wouldn't have meaning but instead would have meaning attached to them by others that wasn't intended....
Let people scum-hunt the way they want to. Call out those who aren't at all, but let others do it how they want to...
Hey, it was just an idea to get people talking, putting down reads for the record, etc. Clearly it didn't work, as the day just stagnated anyway. At least I tried.
Do I say
e-0%
Faust-62.8%
Ashersky-21.7%
Etc....
And continue down the line? (Those numbers were made up)
So, if everyone starts out at 25% chance, we can assign a number higher or lower than than for our reads, eHalcyon-style.I like this idea. The actual percentage is about 27%, but that hardly matters. I think we should do this, I think it's a better form of popsquiz.
How do people feel about doing that?
I like the idea of getting people to put their reads out, but I don't like the idea of forcing them to do it a certain style. I for one won't be putting percentages onto my reads... why? Because they would be completely arbitrary... I don't think like that and wouldn't have meaning but instead would have meaning attached to them by others that wasn't intended....
Let people scum-hunt the way they want to. Call out those who aren't at all, but let others do it how they want to...
Hey, it was just an idea to get people talking, putting down reads for the record, etc. Clearly it didn't work, as the day just stagnated anyway. At least I tried.
Bolded that for you.I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.Before I've read anything else
I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.
I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)
I would like everyone to read this: YES.
I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)
I think I only bring up biases when I'm scum.
and I think bringing up the metastat of mail-mi not being alive at the end of the game is scummy... I don't think these games offer a large enough sampling size nor a reliable enough set of variables to draw any conclusions from in this area... unless you are trying to manipulate people into thinking a certain set of conclusions...
Bolded that for you.I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.Before I've read anything else
I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.
I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)
I would like everyone to read this: YES.
I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)
I think I only bring up biases when I'm scum.
and I think bringing up the metastat of mail-mi not being alive at the end of the game is scummy... I don't think these games offer a large enough sampling size nor a reliable enough set of variables to draw any conclusions from in this area... unless you are trying to manipulate people into thinking a certain set of conclusions...
and your point is?
We're looking for one of the following, right?
2-man mafia team
2-man mafia team + 1 SK
3-man mafia team
3-man mafia team + 1 SK
So we're searching for 2, 3, or 4 scum out of 13 total players.
The chance of any one player being scum, without a post being made, is 2/12, 3/12, or 4/12, from my perspective as town. That means 17%, 25%, or 33%, basically.
25% is the middle, there, and a fair assessment, since the chances are 2, 3, 3, and 4.
So, if everyone starts out at 25% chance, we can assign a number higher or lower than than for our reads, eHalcyon-style.
How do people feel about doing that?
vote: chairs better than Eevee IMO (and no this isn't just OMGUS, he has about the same number of posts as eevee but has less content and his vote was for no reason other than a poorly-worded sheep of volt and ash.)
I just looked, and it was for liopoil not me.
I want to point out that, since #609, chairs has literally posted once, and it was to vote for mail-mi without a reason.
That's a lynch I'd get behind for sure.
If there's one thing that I think both Voltaire and ashersky (the pair of whom I think contains at most 1 scum) can agree on, it's that we should vote: mail-mi.
This is the post, and it was before 609, and yes it was you and volt:this in response to ash's 744If there's one thing that I think both Voltaire and ashersky (the pair of whom I think contains at most 1 scum) can agree on, it's that we should vote: mail-mi.
This is the post, and it was before 609, and yes it was you and volt:this in response to ash's 744If there's one thing that I think both Voltaire and ashersky (the pair of whom I think contains at most 1 scum) can agree on, it's that we should vote: mail-mi.
vote: chairs better than Eevee IMO (and no this isn't just OMGUS, he has about the same number of posts as eevee but has less content and his vote was for no reason other than a poorly-worded sheep of volt and ash.)
Lekkit: 15%
2.7: 21%
yuma: 22%
Robz: 28%
faust: 100%
I'll give you some percentages if you want:
Voltaire - 37%
Robz888 - 17%
mail-mi - 40%
Chairs - 36%
Ashersky - 42%
Yuma - 24%
Ichimaru Gin - 27%
Lekkit - 20%
Liopoil - 32%
Teproc - 22%
2.7 - 29%
Eevee - 31%
Faust - 0%
8 scum reads. Nice. Really narrowed it down there.
Back to vote: faust if I wasn't already.
I really don't see a better lynch than liopoil.
Robz, chairs and ichimaru are as likely to flip scum, but robz is nightkilled a lot, most of you think chars is either pr or mafia (I disagree, but I guess that's more likely) and ichimaru is new.
null on teproc, don't really see any reason to advocate his lynch over lio, same for lekkit whose case on Voltaire I agree makes him more towny. e has been posting more and is putting himself out there in a way I think is towny. faust-ash situation I think might very well resolve on it's
own, and I'm town so that's not really good. Reads are muddy still, but they'll get better fast if we keep the game moving.
I try to have my voting history / my reads speak for my towniness - I think that's the hardest thing for scum to manipulate. Obviously that's not very helpul day 1 before the first flip,
so just trying to survive that.
Faust (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327236#msg327236) mail-mi ashersky | Teproc (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327226#msg327226) 2.7 mail-mi | Lekkit (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327222#msg327222) Voltaire Chairs | Ashersky (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327172#msg327172) Faust Robz Yuma | 2.7 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327161#msg327161) liopoil eevee mail-mi faust* | yuma (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327133#msg327133) liopoil eevee 2.7 mail-mi | mail-mi (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327081#msg327081) Voltaire liopoil |
From the reads that I have seen recently (specific post I used hyperlinked):Looking back Eevee didn't necessarily give a formatted reads post that was easy to spot (I was just skimming) but basically said liopoil, Robz, Chairs, Ichimaru (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327229#msg327229). I will give him credit for that.
Faust (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327236#msg327236)
mail-mi
asherskyTeproc (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327226#msg327226)
2.7
mail-miLekkit (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327222#msg327222)
Voltaire
ChairsAshersky (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327172#msg327172)
Faust
Robz
Yuma2.7 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327161#msg327161)
liopoil
eevee
mail-mi
faust*yuma (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327133#msg327133)
liopoil
eevee
2.7
mail-mimail-mi (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327081#msg327081)
Voltaire
liopoil
mail-mi - 4
liopoil - 3
2.7, Voltaire, Faust, and Eevee - 2
not "voting"- liopoil, eevee, Ichimaru, Robz, Chairs, Voltaire
*does not appear as a candidate in the post I linked, but I still want him on this list as a viable candidate for my vote D1 because I am willing to go back to my Faust vote, though I prefer not to at this point. LALL
What! not being able to post at work! Terrible. (my post count will probably go down over the holidays because I am leaving work, and cant sit here at my computer all day)
Sorry, yuma. I got in trouble at work so I can't work-post as much anymore, and my live-in ladyfriend is still... awkward, when it comes to having me-doing-my-stuff time. I'm used to a schedule that I haven't been able to really find again because she wants to, you know, actually have me pay attention to her. Silly, I know!
Faust (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327236#msg327236) mail-mi ashersky | Teproc (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327226#msg327226) 2.7 mail-mi | Lekkit (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327222#msg327222) Voltaire Chairs | Ashersky (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327172#msg327172) Faust Robz Yuma | 2.7 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327161#msg327161) liopoil eevee mail-mi faust | yuma (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327133#msg327133) liopoil eevee 2.7 mail-mi | mail-mi (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327081#msg327081) Voltaire liopoil | Eevee (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327229#msg327229) liopoil robz chairs Ichimaru | liopoil (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327267#msg327267) eevee 2.7 teproc |
the main point of the percentages is to quantify it, to precisely express how confident you feel about your reads. "I really think player x is scum" means different things from different people. "player x I think has a 45% chance of flipping scum" means the same thing from everyone.
Is what 2.7 is doing pro-town ? Figuring out who is lynchable is very valuable to scum. I guess it can be pro-town when we're close to deadline but confirmation bias makes me find it scummy, so I'd like to know what others think.
Is what 2.7 is doing pro-town ? Figuring out who is lynchable is very valuable to scum. I guess it can be pro-town when we're close to deadline but confirmation bias makes me find it scummy, so I'd like to know what others think.
It cuts both ways.
Is what 2.7 is doing pro-town ? Figuring out who is lynchable is very valuable to scum. I guess it can be pro-town when we're close to deadline but confirmation bias makes me find it scummy, so I'd like to know what others think.
It cuts both ways.
What do you mean ?
It's better to lynch than not to lynch. And we can't seem to agree on a lynch.
Everyone except for chairs seems to get a decent amount of support. I think mail-mi needs to move his vote and everyone else is being reasonable with where they stand.
Everyone except for chairs seems to get a decent amount of support. I think mail-mi needs to move his vote and everyone else is being reasonable with where they stand.
I mean, ash should move his too, but I don't expect that to happen.
It's better to lynch than not to lynch. And we can't seem to agree on a lynch.
vote: liopoil >= chairs > Eevee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail-mi
vote: liopoil >= chairs > Eevee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail-miwhy me over eevee?
ugh, not even sure I like an eevee lynch now... because knowing that I'm town, he could just be in the same boat as me. I'm having trouble seeing how we could lynch scum today. random lynch minus chairs? Not a good idea, but honestly, it's not much worse than what we're doing now.
Ok. I am going to do something crazy.
vote: chairs
Yes, I get that he could be a PR. I get that. I saw it as soon as Voltaire mentioned the secret case before he had to explain it to the whole world
But
he could also be scum. (or the SK)
JK9++ could have up to 7(!) town PRs. that is a lot. Chairs could also be our only PR. Or he could be one of many. We could have a SK. We might not. Which is why JK9++ is impossible to "solve" D1. Which will make it super fun later on, but right now is kind of annoying since we don't know anything.
However, I am looking at viable lynches and who we will actually learn something about going into D2. We will learn stuff about chairs. I also think we have the votes to pull it off.
I believe mail-mi, Ashersky, Lekkit, Eevee, myself will all vote chairs. The interesting thing is that this basically is almost all of everyone's scum reads (except liopoil). So this is also intriguing if he does flip scum. Now, if he flips town PR we will all feel bad and have nice little accusations thrown at us.
But the point is, we can learn more from a chairs lynch than any other lynch right now.
2.7, I'm actually pretty sure I don't want to lynch chairs today. I mean I'd lynch him over you, me, yuma or no lynch, but I'd still prefer another lynch.
Also, Voltaire is totally right that I should switch my vote. Vote: faust
I will join up to lynch faust2.7, I'm actually pretty sure I don't want to lynch chairs today. I mean I'd lynch him over you, me, yuma or no lynch, but I'd still prefer another lynch.
Also, Voltaire is totally right that I should switch my vote. Vote: faust
That appears to be another non-viable candidate. Who besides you and ash wants to lynch faust?
I wouldn't worry too much about no lynch. Worst case scenario we have to rush a lynch in the last hour (that would be bad, we still should try to reach a lynch earlier if we can), but we will lynch someone I think.
I wouldn't worry too much about no lynch. Worst case scenario we have to rush a lynch in the last hour (that would be bad, we still should try to reach a lynch earlier if we can), but we will lynch someone I think.
This.
3, there's no way a chairs lynch is happening anyway.
Lastly, it seems that an eevee lynch isn't happening. the other clear options are faust and me, and I don't like either of those options. E now is at 3 votes and I think has a chance of happening, and is suspicious.
3, there's no way a chairs lynch is happening anyway.
Lastly, it seems that an eevee lynch isn't happening. the other clear options are faust and me, and I don't like either of those options. E now is at 3 votes and I think has a chance of happening, and is suspicious.
I am very, very tempted to vote for e, but the one thing holding me back is your 3. Why would e, as scum, do something as suspicious/crazy as vote for chairs (even if that's good for scum) when it's clear chairs isn't going through?
Also, mail-mi is an option. He may only have two votes but other people have called him scummy as well.
Well, we don't know what scum!e is like (presumably, insert [REDACTED] caveat), and I don't think town!e has done stuff like this, has he ?
But what do you think about my case that we can actually learn something from this flip?
I mean, if liopoil or mail-mi or eevee flip scum, great. If not, we do not learn anything. At all.
Vote: 2.71828.....
Reasons:
I agree with yuma here:
and in his further explanations later.
Also his recent chairs vote, which well, doesn't make much sense from a town standpoint. 1, a chairs lynch is bad 2, chairs isn't suspicious, and 3, there's no way a chairs lynch is happening anyway.
Lastly, it seems that an eevee lynch isn't happening. the other clear options are faust and me, and I don't like either of those options. E now is at 3 votes and I think has a chance of happening, and is suspicious.
I wouldn't worry too much about no lynch. Worst case scenario we have to rush a lynch in the last hour (that would be bad, we still should try to reach a lynch earlier if we can), but we will lynch someone I think.
This.
You all forget the "time to claim at L-1" conundrum.
When 2.7 moves his vote, we will have lio at 4 voted and Faust at 3. Those will be the leading wagons with a day to go.
This is leading nowhere.
I am Lu Meng, the Vengeful. If you lynch me today, I will shoot ashersky.
This is leading nowhere.
I am Lu Meng, the Vengeful. If you lynch me today, I will shoot ashersky.
This is leading nowhere.
I am Lu Meng, the Vengeful. If you lynch me today, I will shoot ashersky.
Worst fakeclaim ever, I'm pretty sure.
This is JK9++. There are no "vengeful" roles. That's pretty RMM/BM. Mafiascum isn't loading currently, for some reason, so I can't confirm 100%, but I mean, vengeful? I'll check when it loads.
This should confirm faust as scum for everyone else.
Phone post:
Isn't claiming vengeful normally something that gets you lynched?
So why would Faust claim it?
It's almost like he wants to get lynched.
The whole "this is going nowhere" thing kinda cinches if for me
Phone post:
Isn't claiming vengeful normally something that gets you lynched?
So why would Faust claim it?
It's almost like he wants to get lynched.
The whole "this is going nowhere" thing kinda cinches if for me
Well, yes, I don't really mind if you lynch me today. I think that way, my role may be of some use: I can kill scum (or at least try to).
This is leading nowhere.
I am Lu Meng, the Vengeful. If you lynch me today, I will shoot ashersky.
Oh! Hmm. I disagree that it was leading nowhere. Why the claim?
MafiaScum wiki won't load for me, so I have no idea what this means about the setup if this is true.
Phone post:
Isn't claiming vengeful normally something that gets you lynched?
So why would Faust claim it?
It's almost like he wants to get lynched.
The whole "this is going nowhere" thing kinda cinches if for me
Well, yes, I don't really mind if you lynch me today. I think that way, my role may be of some use: I can kill scum (or at least try to).
The risk with this is that ash is town and we've given scum a free extra kill D1.
Phone post:
Isn't claiming vengeful normally something that gets you lynched?
So why would Faust claim it?
It's almost like he wants to get lynched.
The whole "this is going nowhere" thing kinda cinches if for me
Well, yes, I don't really mind if you lynch me today. I think that way, my role may be of some use: I can kill scum (or at least try to).
The risk with this is that ash is town and we've given scum a free extra kill D1.
Correct. This is why I wanted to get it out before you guys decide to randomly lynch me before I can say another word (has happened before). Town should know what they're dealing with.
Well, I for one lean towards believing faust. Scum can't kill him without him getting to use his Vengeful (I think?) so I see no problem letting him live. I thought he was more likely town anyway.
Yes, the setup has vengeful, and that was a terrible claim. We were nowhere near lynching you Faust
I'm more likely to think faust is scum post-claim. Vengeful is absolutely the thing scum would claim here. They actually want to proactively claim that if they can, probably. And faust wasn't in any danger, was he? I have to check. If he really, really isn't in any danger, I may actually want to lynch him after all. Yeah.
Vengeful is so RMM. But whatevs. My fault for not reading every line of the JK9++ code, then. It still won't load
I'm more likely to think faust is scum post-claim. Vengeful is absolutely the thing scum would claim here. They actually want to proactively claim that if they can, probably. And faust wasn't in any danger, was he? I have to check. If he really, really isn't in any danger, I may actually want to lynch him after all. Yeah.
I'm thinking like Robz about this sorta. Again, what's the scum narrative? I mean, I didn't think faust was scum ahead of time, so I don't want him lynched. But I'd be cool with ash dying. So in an incredibly weird way I'd be ok lynching faust because a possible 1 town/1 scum trade (with a chance of being 1 scum/0 town [though also 2 town]) is not so bad.
Why does scum claim this early exactly?
Yes, the setup has vengeful, and that was a terrible claim. We were nowhere near lynching you Faust
Vengeful is so RMM. But whatevs. My fault for not reading every line of the JK9++ code, then. It still won't load.
Vengeful is so RMM. But whatevs. My fault for not reading every line of the JK9++ code, then. It still won't load
There is a possibility of up to 7 town PRs and with 2 mafia PRs. Which is like 9 people with PRs. Which is close to RMM
Yes, the setup has vengeful, and that was a terrible claim. We were nowhere near lynching you Faust
Vengeful is so RMM. But whatevs. My fault for not reading every line of the JK9++ code, then. It still won't load.
Actually, this reads to me like bitterness from a scum person who chose to tunnel someone at random, knowing full well he would never be held accountable for it... except oops, he will be if his target is vengeful.
Ash, I agree it's a claim scum makes, but your reaction is REALLY weird to me, I do not know you to sob about RMM aspects.
Lying town is not really a possibility.
Ash, I agree it's a claim scum makes, but your reaction is REALLY weird to me, I do not know you to sob about RMM aspects.
I realize mail-mi is an option, but I don't think he's as scummy as e. re: #3, I don't really think it's that weird. He could honestly think that town could be convinced to lynch chairs. He might be trying to fish for chairs' role.3, there's no way a chairs lynch is happening anyway.
Lastly, it seems that an eevee lynch isn't happening. the other clear options are faust and me, and I don't like either of those options. E now is at 3 votes and I think has a chance of happening, and is suspicious.
I am very, very tempted to vote for e, but the one thing holding me back is your 3. Why would e, as scum, do something as suspicious/crazy as vote for chairs (even if that's good for scum) when it's clear chairs isn't going through?
Also, mail-mi is an option. He may only have two votes but other people have called him scummy as well.
before any of us say anything further regarding the claim, I let's have faust fully explain why he claimed, and why he says he will vengekill ashersky no matter what.
talking more will just give scum!faust ideas.
Maybe he's waiting for mafiascum wiki to reload again so he can perfect his fake claim.
Maybe he's waiting for mafiascum wiki to reload again so he can perfect his fake claim.
Maybe he's waiting for mafiascum wiki to reload again so he can perfect his fake claim.
He already said something about the letter it would imply. What else could he say?
Maybe he's waiting for mafiascum wiki to reload again so he can perfect his fake claim.
He already said something about the letter it would imply. What else could he say?
Maybe he's waiting for mafiascum wiki to reload again so he can perfect his fake claim.
He already said something about the letter it would imply. What else could he say?
I have a possible idea about that, but if I explain it before faust comes back that would defeat the purpose.
they are actually "K" combos according to the wiki, which is why he said K. I believe if we rolled 1 K it is 50/50 for vengeful/ vig. Multiple K rolls force a vengefulMaybe he's waiting for mafiascum wiki to reload again so he can perfect his fake claim.
He already said something about the letter it would imply. What else could he say?
How many V combos include Vengeful as an option?
as it happens, I had the JK9++ wiki page open before it went down! should I put the relevant info in here?that would be great
as it happens, I had the JK9++ wiki page open before it went down! should I put the relevant info in here?
as it happens, I had the JK9++ wiki page open before it went down! should I put the relevant info in here?
NO
Actually... I don't know if what I'm thinking about is legal... maybe that information is supposed to just be public at all times?yeah, probably. good question.
okay :P
not sure exactly what your theory is, but sure.
what e said about rolling K is incorrect
Actually... I don't know if what I'm thinking about is legal... maybe that information is supposed to just be public at all times?
The joke tags are to avoid ambiguity.was this post to avoid ambiguity too?
Actually... I don't know if what I'm thinking about is legal... maybe that information is supposed to just be public at all times?
JK9++ is semi-open. That means all information about HOW the set-up was derived is publically known information (i.e., what all the possible rolls are).
The fact that the website isn't opening right now doesn't change that. However, it does trap scum into making mistakes, which helps us. If 2.7 was his scum partner trying to help with the fake claim, he might have just copy/pasted the info into the game.
Right right right, but I feel a little dirty getting him this way, as it's looking clearer and clearer like that's exactly what's happening here.
robz, do you know how the setup works? just wondering if you do, not asking you to tell us (I know, I can look at the page right now!)
Right right right, but I feel a little dirty getting him this way, as it's looking clearer and clearer like that's exactly what's happening here.
But why can't he explain why he claimed? That wouldn't involve him saying anything about the setup.
This is either disgusted town or caught scum behavior from Faust. I lean caught scum and am ready to vote: Faustor, he is at least different than us. So we will likely get at least 1 scum for 1 town
His flavor is all bad to. Town!e is shu. Town!ash is shu. Scum!Faust is wu.
This is either disgusted town or caught scum behavior from Faust. I lean caught scum and am ready to vote: Faustor, he is at least different than us. So we will likely get at least 1 scum for 1 town
His flavor is all bad to. Town!e is shu. Town!ash is shu. Scum!Faust is wu.
Pm's are going out, and hopefully you learned from last time don't freak out when you get a colored Pm, The Battle of the Red Cliffs is the showdown between the massive Wei army(Bad Guys!), against the combined forces of the Wu naval fleet(Good Guys!) and some Shu officers(also good guys!)
oh. Well then. I forgot to go back and look at that. All three of us might be townThis is either disgusted town or caught scum behavior from Faust. I lean caught scum and am ready to vote: Faustor, he is at least different than us. So we will likely get at least 1 scum for 1 town
His flavor is all bad to. Town!e is shu. Town!ash is shu. Scum!Faust is wu.Pm's are going out, and hopefully you learned from last time don't freak out when you get a colored Pm, The Battle of the Red Cliffs is the showdown between the massive Wei army(Bad Guys!), against the combined forces of the Wu naval fleet(Good Guys!) and some Shu officers(also good guys!)
This is either disgusted town or caught scum behavior from Faust. I lean caught scum and am ready to vote: FaustI've been ready to vote for faust ever since he claimed, but I'm still waiting for a full explanation.
I'm also willing to vote for faust because if I'm wrong and he flips town, I'm a-ok with him shooting ash.see I think that will be the death of two town members.
I will be voting for faust unless we get a great explanation from him. I'm now thinking the most plausible explanation for what just happened is that it was a fake claim gone wrong when he realized mafiascum wiki was down.see, he was in no rush to claim though. Our fake claim. Whichever. I think mafiascum being down actually helps his claim. Because if I were to fake claim I would get the info and all my ducks in a row before the claim
I will be voting for faust unless we get a great explanation from him. I'm now thinking the most plausible explanation for what just happened is that it was a fake claim gone wrong when he realized mafiascum wiki was down.see, he was in no rush to claim though. Our fake claim. Whichever. I think mafiascum being down actually helps his claim. Because if I were to fake claim I would get the info and all my ducks in a row before the claim
ugh I am talking myself into thinking he really is town. anti-town behavior, but still to town.I will be voting for faust unless we get a great explanation from him. I'm now thinking the most plausible explanation for what just happened is that it was a fake claim gone wrong when he realized mafiascum wiki was down.see, he was in no rush to claim though. Our fake claim. Whichever. I think mafiascum being down actually helps his claim. Because if I were to fake claim I would get the info and all my ducks in a row before the claim
Hmmm. This is not great for me, because I don't think faust is scum and I really don't think ash is scum.
I looked at the setup recently, and if I remember correctly, Vengeful has 50% chance to happen if one K is rolled, and there will always be at least one Vengeful if more than one K is rolled.
Vengeful is probably the go to scum fakeclaim but... I mean, it's a pretty likely role to exist, and I do think his timing makes sense here. I wouldn't have claimed at that point myself, but it makes sense to help narrow the lynch down.
Basically, I think his claim doesn't change anything to his likelihood of being town/scum. But I don't want to lynch him because I believe ash to be town, and I'm not confident either way as to faust's alignment.
UGHno one ever listens to robz. Except for that whole liopoil wagon
You realize that this would in no way be indicative of his alignment right ? If he is Vengeful, how does he have more info about the setup than if he isn't ?
By the way, I had too much spare time, so I did some math. Maybe this can be of use.
Probabilities for PRs:
P(there is a Tracker)=63,6%
P(there is a 1-shot Tracker)=22,2%
P(there is a Doctor)=P(there is a Jailkeeper)=31,5%
P(there is a Hider)=49,1%
P(there is a 1-shot Commuter)=13,9%
P(there is a Vengeful)=P(there is a Vigilante)=31,5%
P(there is a Role Cop)=24,6%
P(there is a Gunsmith)=4,1%
P(there is a Mafia Bus Driver)=40,9%
P(there is a Mafia JOAT)=73,0%
P(there is a SK)=50,0%
I wanted to make sure my line of inquiry against faust, which relies on a web page being down, is legal, though I assume it is.
and your point is?
it was only semi-serious.
11. 2.7 - 10
but I wouldn't vote for anyone that's below 25, which is yuma, me and 2.7.
Sorry, yuma. I got in trouble at work so I can't work-post as much anymore, and my live-in ladyfriend is still... awkward, when it comes to having me-doing-my-stuff time. I'm used to a schedule that I haven't been able to really find again because she wants to, you know, actually have me pay attention to her. Silly, I know!
Is what 2.7 is doing pro-town ? Figuring out who is lynchable is very valuable to scum. I guess it can be pro-town when we're close to deadline but confirmation bias makes me find it scummy, so I'd like to know what others think.
I wanted to make sure my line of inquiry against faust, which relies on a web page being down, is legal, though I assume it is.
/kickball?
/kickball?
I know about ehunt's kickball moment thing, but what does this mean?
From this point I want to try to find scummier players out of: liopoil, eevee, 2.7 and mail-mi and maybe faust, lekkit.
The Day 1 deadline is now 2:20 pm December 19th (instead of 2) This is so one of us can be present to lock the thread.
Yes, my latest posts are defensive, because I am defending myself. What did you expect?? Defending myself isn't scummy, if that's what you're saying. I've heavily defended myself every game I've had a wagon on me in, which is like, all of them.
IIRC, mcmc didn't start posting more in KCGM when he got accused... he lurked the whole way.
and you say "so in the end, liopoil looks a little more scummy to me". Which of shraeye's/robz's/dsell's bad points are you agreeing with?
Dsell, that's not all I've contributed. I had that thing with EFHW's case on mcmc, I defended nkirbit a bit... look, I don't have a TON of content, but it's more than a lot of other people. And I don't know about saying it in a lot of words, I'm just saying what I have to say. And I was gone when a lot of stuff happened!
and you may think my case is weak, but it isn't total crap - IIRC voltaire and TA agreed with it. So I'm not just making stuff up.
As for trying to blend in D1, look at what I did with the secondary wincon thing! I think town is much more likely to jump in saying "I've got a secondary wincon" when it isn't known that everyone does.
faust is right, I really should put a vote down. Well, when it comes down to it, I'm willing to vote for anyone to save myself, simply because I know I'm town and I don't know anyone else's alignment. I'll be around at the deadline, and will also hopefully look at some other people and find someone I actually want to lynch, and am not just trying to save myself.
liopoil - first to dive into secondary win-con. i disagree with 'getting it out of the way'. just ignore it, and focus on the game, which will be tough enough with our large numbers. wordy explanation that basically adds nothing new to the Galz-discussion, behind which he hides his vote; that be scummy. says that we shouldn't think too much of the lurking arguments, but IS interested in lynching mcmcs for lurking. I don't like this stance at all. Hiding behind Voltgloss's list; trying to attack EFHW's day1 case for 'stretching'.Look, if I can get the secondary win, why not do it? I really doubt it had much of any effect on the real game. I'd rather do it then than in the middle of D6 while massclaiming or something.
NOTHING NEW to the galz discussion?? Nonsense. At the time everyone was just talking about how he wasn't leading town. My post had only things that hadn't been mentioned yet.
I am potentially willing to lynch mcmc for lurking, yes, but am far from sold that it's the best lynch. Don't see what's wrong with this.
Hiding behind VG's list? I assume this is the same thing as robz. look, that was a POST COUNT. I was not voiceing ANY of my personal beliefs in that post!
yeah, I didn't like EFHW's case. because it was bad. so?
I think earlier yuma thought the time I started doing PoE was the first non-too early time. Quite whatever on that though, could be interpreted as yuma trying to paint me as scummy, though.
So I think I stand by my belief that town lio reacts more aggressively toward pressure while scum lio keeps his cool as lio was town in this game...
So I think I stand by my belief that town lio reacts more aggressively toward pressure while scum lio keeps his cool as lio was town in this game...
Doesn't this lead to a stronger scumread on lio for you? If so, still less than Eevee?
ugh I am talking myself into thinking he really is town. anti-town behavior, but still town.Unvote for now. I do not want to lynch Faust while he is away. And he was L-2. And the more I think about it the more I think if we lynch Faust we will lose ashersky and that they are both actually town. I still don't like the claim, and if it was a frustration claim I don't see something happening that he should have gotten frustrated over. If it was a claim to stimulate discussion then why didn't he stay around though?
I find Faust's claim completely scummy. That, and the fact that he just disappeared after making it. His excuse does not hold up in my mind either.
We need a lynch today, and I think Faust is it.
vote: Faust
I actually think our new guy is plenty scummy here.So was I in my first game. Newbie D1 pass, look at him tomorrow
i know all that, yet i felt posting what i did was worth it.I actually think our new guy is plenty scummy here.So was I in my first game. Newbie D1 pass, look at him tomorrow
Ok. I am going to do something crazy.This post gives me all the wrong feelings. Not the vote, cause I think the vote is fine. The entire post. Like, "Yeah he could be a PR but guess what--we have could have 7!" just rubs me all the wrong ways. vote: e to have it somewhere before faust comes.
vote: chairs
Yes, I get that he could be a PR. I get that. I saw it as soon as Voltaire mentioned the secret case before he had to explain it to the whole world
But
he could also be scum. (or the SK)
JK9++ could have up to 7(!) town PRs. that is a lot. Chairs could also be our only PR. Or he could be one of many. We could have a SK. We might not. Which is why JK9++ is impossible to "solve" D1. Which will make it super fun later on, but right now is kind of annoying since we don't know anything.
However, I am looking at viable lynches and who we will actually learn something about going into D2. We will learn stuff about chairs. I also think we have the votes to pull it off.
I believe mail-mi, Ashersky, Lekkit, Eevee, myself will all vote chairs. The interesting thing is that this basically is almost all of everyone's scum reads (except liopoil). So this is also intriguing if he does flip scum. Now, if he flips town PR we will all feel bad and have nice little accusations thrown at us.
But the point is, we can learn more from a chairs lynch than any other lynch right now.
I find Faust's claim completely scummy. That, and the fact that he just disappeared after making it. His excuse does not hold up in my mind either.
We need a lynch today, and I think Faust is it.
vote: Faust
This was L-1. You have to announce that, man.
I find Faust's claim completely scummy. That, and the fact that he just disappeared after making it. His excuse does not hold up in my mind either.
We need a lynch today, and I think Faust is it.
vote: Faust
This was L-1. You have to announce that, man.
Oh. Sorry I didn't realize that. L-1 means one more vote, and then a hammer?
ugh I am talking myself into thinking he really is town. anti-town behavior, but still town.Unvote for now. I do not want to lynch Faust while he is away. And he was L-2. And the more I think about it the more I think if we lynch Faust we will lose ashersky and that they are both actually town. I still don't like the claim, and if it was a frustration claim I don't see something happening that he should have gotten frustrated over. If it was a claim to stimulate discussion then why didn't he stay around though?
But above all, he needs a chance to say something, and I do not want to be a part of a lynch that kills him before he has that chance.
At this point I will vote Faust or eevee. I will probably not vote tonight, but I will be here before the deadline and I will have a vote down.
Shoot 2.7, faust!Agreed.
Day 1 ends on December, 19 at2:302:20 p.m. Forum time.
Oh wait I revoted for liopoil, here's to hoping e becomes viable: vote: eShoot 2.7, faust!Agreed.
Okay I need to know why faust claimed. Why, faust? You weren't going to be lynched. Why claim?
If faust is telling the truth and this set-up actually uses Vengeful, that's the absolute go-to fakeclaim for scum if they're being lynched. It keeps you from being lynched most of the time. Vengeful fits scum way better than town anyway.
I have no fear of being killed by faust if he's lynched. He's lying.
I mean, that was a terrible D1 claim. There is a reason vigs don't shoot N1- you probably hit town. Same for vengeful. You will probably hit town.
Here are the possibilities:
Faust is scum. One scum dead going into N1.
Faust is truthful town, vengekills ash. Two town dead going into N1.
Faust is lying town. One town dead going into N1.
Faust could also easily be the SK, if there is one.
Maybe he's waiting for mafiascum wiki to reload again so he can perfect his fake claim.
He already said something about the letter it would imply. What else could he say?
How many V combos include Vengeful as an option?
Yeah, if faust does NOT post before mafiascum comes back up, that's even MORE damning evidence against him.
I find Faust's claim completely scummy. That, and the fact that he just disappeared after making it. His excuse does not hold up in my mind either.
We need a lynch today, and I think Faust is it.
vote: Faust
Shoot 2.7, faust!Agreed.
Okay I need to know why faust claimed. Why, faust? You weren't going to be lynched. Why claim?
I'm realistic. At the point this game was, it was unlikely that we would hit scum D1. It was, instead, possible for us to accidentally lynch a town PR without giving them a chance to claim because we're running out of time. I offered a lynch that, while it doesn't hit scum directly, is probably the best mislynch town can get (because it activates my power).
An overnight wagon on me. Exciting. Could someone last out the whole case against me? It seems to be part posting habits, part chairs vote, part something else. I will be at work soon to start working through some thoughts.
Woah, major inconsistency here.ugh I am talking myself into thinking he really is town. anti-town behavior, but still town.Unvote for now. I do not want to lynch Faust while he is away. And he was L-2. And the more I think about it the more I think if we lynch Faust we will lose ashersky and that they are both actually town. I still don't like the claim, and if it was a frustration claim I don't see something happening that he should have gotten frustrated over. If it was a claim to stimulate discussion then why didn't he stay around though?
But above all, he needs a chance to say something, and I do not want to be a part of a lynch that kills him before he has that chance.At this point I will vote Faust or eevee. I will probably not vote tonight, but I will be here before the deadline and I will have a vote down.
2.7 is totally trying to have it both ways... supporting the faust lynch enough to have it go through, but being posed to be on record as having thought faust was town for after he flips town (if faust does flip town, which he will if 2.7 is scum).
So as scummy as I find everything having to do with faust, this looks much worse, yes? I would totally toally lynch 2.7 for this. These were back to back posts, not like evolving reads. (2.7 initially evolved to thinking faust was town right after the claim disappearance, which I think is just objectively the opposite reaction a townie should have had. It's opposite my reaction.)
Vote: 2.7 I will be around at deadline and an hour or two before deadline, and will move to Eevee, liopoil, faust, or mail-mi, or faust if necessary. I actually like the faust lynch even more now since if it's wrong, he could shoot 2.7. I don't want him to shoot ashersky, if ash is wrong about faust he's wrong, whatever, town ash has bad early reads and is brashly overconfident all the time. Shoot 2.7, faust!
I say do not lynch Faust right now. There is a good chance he gets NKed because his reads can only get better as time progresses. Worst case: lynch Faust (town) kills ashersky (town) and scum kill [insert name here] (town) and SK kills [insert name here] (town).
This is either disgusted town or caught scum behavior from Faust. I lean caught scum and am ready to vote: Faust
His flavor is all bad to. Town!e is shu. Town!ash is shu. Scum!Faust is wu.
oh. Well then. I forgot to go back and look at that. All three of us might be townThis is either disgusted town or caught scum behavior from Faust. I lean caught scum and am ready to vote: Faustor, he is at least different than us. So we will likely get at least 1 scum for 1 town
His flavor is all bad to. Town!e is shu. Town!ash is shu. Scum!Faust is wu.Pm's are going out, and hopefully you learned from last time don't freak out when you get a colored Pm, The Battle of the Red Cliffs is the showdown between the massive Wei army(Bad Guys!), against the combined forces of the Wu naval fleet(Good Guys!) and some Shu officers(also good guys!)
I'm also willing to vote for faust because if I'm wrong and he flips town, I'm a-ok with him shooting ash.see I think that will be the death of two town members.
I will be voting for faust unless we get a great explanation from him. I'm now thinking the most plausible explanation for what just happened is that it was a fake claim gone wrong when he realized mafiascum wiki was down.see, he was in no rush to claim though. Our fake claim. Whichever. I think mafiascum being down actually helps his claim. Because if I were to fake claim I would get the info and all my ducks in a row before the claim
ugh I am talking myself into thinking he really is town. anti-town behavior, but still to town.I will be voting for faust unless we get a great explanation from him. I'm now thinking the most plausible explanation for what just happened is that it was a fake claim gone wrong when he realized mafiascum wiki was down.see, he was in no rush to claim though. Our fake claim. Whichever. I think mafiascum being down actually helps his claim. Because if I were to fake claim I would get the info and all my ducks in a row before the claim
My question: do we lynch anti-town behavior? Or do we lynch scum? They are not always the same thing. He is not SK. No way.
ugh I am talking myself into thinking he really is town. anti-town behavior, but still town.Unvote for now. I do not want to lynch Faust while he is away. And he was L-2. And the more I think about it the more I think if we lynch Faust we will lose ashersky and that they are both actually town. I still don't like the claim, and if it was a frustration claim I don't see something happening that he should have gotten frustrated over. If it was a claim to stimulate discussion then why didn't he stay around though?
But above all, he needs a chance to say something, and I do not want to be a part of a lynch that kills him before he has that chance.
Vote Count 1.13This vote count was wrong. I was not voting Faust. I had unvoted two posts previous
怪客
2.7... (1): Teproc
mail-mi (2): Voltaire, faust
Eevee (2): Robz888, yuma
liopoil (3): Eevee, chairs, mail-mi
faust (5): ashersky, Lekkit, 2.7, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin
Not Voting (0):
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December, 19 at 2:30 p.m. Forum time.
they are actually "K" combos according to the wiki, which is why he said K. I believe if we rolled 1 K it is 50/50 for vengeful/ vig. Multiple K rolls force a vengefulMaybe he's waiting for mafiascum wiki to reload again so he can perfect his fake claim.
He already said something about the letter it would imply. What else could he say?
How many V combos include Vengeful as an option?
I don't know what either one of e and teproc are talking about, I'm looking at the setup right in front of me and I'm it does not say what they think it says.
Killing Roles
K = Vengeful OR Vigilante (50/50 chance of either)
KK = Vengeful, Vigilante
KKK = Vengeful, Vigilante, Vigilante
KKKK = Vengeful, Vengeful, Vigilante, Vigilante
Ok. This post really seems to me like Faust is disgusted town and really wants to use his vengeful power to kill Ash (who he strongly believes to be scum).If faust is telling the truth and this set-up actually uses Vengeful, that's the absolute go-to fakeclaim for scum if they're being lynched. It keeps you from being lynched most of the time. Vengeful fits scum way better than town anyway.
I have no fear of being killed by faust if he's lynched. He's lying.
What, Vengeful keeps you from being lynched? I think it encourages lynching you, because doing that gives another town-controlled kill.
he doesn't know what vengeful does. the PM on mafiascum says:If faust is telling the truth and this set-up actually uses Vengeful, that's the absolute go-to fakeclaim for scum if they're being lynched. It keeps you from being lynched most of the time. Vengeful fits scum way better than town anyway.
I have no fear of being killed by faust if he's lynched. He's lying.
What, Vengeful keeps you from being lynched? I think it encourages lynching you, because doing that gives another town-controlled kill.
I really want to lynch faust because a) he could be NKed and we lose his vengekill, b) we score if either ash or him is scum, better odds than if we lynch someone else, and c) he isn't town.
I really think he's scum. I'll use that same quote that e just quoted:he doesn't know what vengeful does. the PM on mafiascum says:If faust is telling the truth and this set-up actually uses Vengeful, that's the absolute go-to fakeclaim for scum if they're being lynched. It keeps you from being lynched most of the time. Vengeful fits scum way better than town anyway.
I have no fear of being killed by faust if he's lynched. He's lying.
What, Vengeful keeps you from being lynched? I think it encourages lynching you, because doing that gives another town-controlled kill.
Town Vengeful
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Vengeful.
Abilities:
If you are lynched, you may vengekill any player in the game during twilight. You do not have to kill.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.
pretty clear that he dies when he gets lynched.
He is also scum because he was absent exactly between when he claimed and when mafiascum came back up.
It's weird that most of my day 1 feels like I've been defending faust when I don't even have a town read on him, but people keep comling up with the most ludicrous reasons for wanting to lynch him.Hence my town read on Teproc. Town wants a good, reasoned lynch. Scum will just kill whoever works.
It is probably the time to call this off.oh my
I am not Vengeful. I claimed to be to get reactions.
This is why I fixed my kill on ashersky. I wanted to see how he reacted. And I don't find his reaction particularly towny. What is more, the whole discussion about whether or not to kill me will be much more insightful once we know ashersky's alignment. If he's town, look for scum on my wagon. If he's scum, look for the other scum among people defending me (yes, it's not always that easy, but I think a good baseline).
Vote: ashersky
What in ash's reactions makes you say he's not townie ? What were you expecting to get from him that would justify fakeclaiming as town ?
It is probably the time to call this off.
I am not Vengeful. I claimed to be to get reactions.
This is why I fixed my kill on ashersky. I wanted to see how he reacted. And I don't find his reaction particularly towny. What is more, the whole discussion about whether or not to kill me will be much more insightful once we know ashersky's alignment. If he's town, look for scum on my wagon. If he's scum, look for the other scum among people defending me (yes, it's not always that easy, but I think a good baseline).
Vote: ashersky
that really feels like confirmation bias to me. You are looking for reasons to find Ash scummy, so you found them.What in ash's reactions makes you say he's not townie ? What were you expecting to get from him that would justify fakeclaiming as town ?
Well, I was hoping that he would get afraid to be lynched and back off. That would have been a sure scumtell. But I guess ashersky's too clever for that. Still, I had the feeling that his case against me after my claim was so over the top, as if he didn't really try to convince people.
Also, people need to realise that this game isn't as easy as "fakeclaiming as town=bad". In most cases, yes, it is, but there are situations where it's not, and I think this was one of them.
Well, in fact, vote: e. mail-mi isn't super-scummy, and has announced that he will be gone till the deadline, so it would be bad to lynch him.
that really feels like confirmation bias to me. You are looking for reasons to find Ash scummy, so you found them.What in ash's reactions makes you say he's not townie ? What were you expecting to get from him that would justify fakeclaiming as town ?
Well, I was hoping that he would get afraid to be lynched and back off. That would have been a sure scumtell. But I guess ashersky's too clever for that. Still, I had the feeling that his case against me after my claim was so over the top, as if he didn't really try to convince people.
Also, people need to realise that this game isn't as easy as "fakeclaiming as town=bad". In most cases, yes, it is, but there are situations where it's not, and I think this was one of them.
PPE: As Teproc said, his case against you was already so strongly stated that there is really nothing you could expect to hear from him except to go all out and call you scum
Also, people need to realise that this game isn't as easy as "fakeclaiming as town=bad". In most cases, yes, it is, but there are situations where it's not, and I think this was one of them.
It is probably the time to call this off.
I am not Vengeful. I claimed to be to get reactions.
This is why I fixed my kill on ashersky. I wanted to see how he reacted. And I don't find his reaction particularly towny. What is more, the whole discussion about whether or not to kill me will be much more insightful once we know ashersky's alignment. If he's town, look for scum on my wagon. If he's scum, look for the other scum among people defending me (yes, it's not always that easy, but I think a good baseline).
Vote: ashersky
Ok. Just woke up, been reading over everything that I missed.
Question. I have a pretty strong town-read on Ash myself. So in my mind at least, voting for someone threatening to kill town is actually a town-read. Also, I find it hard to believe that anyone could not find Faust's behavior scummy, meaning this entire gambit was how useful? Which of your statements do we choose to believe. Maybe this is just a ploy because you were betting on the fact that your claim wouldn't actually get you lynched. So you are now trying to pass it off as a plan to help town. I don't buy it.
faust, are you really Lu Meng?
So you're saying the flavor name you claimed was real, but you aren't in fact vengeful?
Actually, I don't think I'll be voting for ash today either.
Ok...I think faust is town.
Reasons:
1. Scum doesn't write "he's an ok mislynch" in-thread
2. faust has been sorting out optimal PR play (which is what he does regardless of role as town) [though I don't know if he did this in M31 as scum, I'll have to check]
3. I can see a pro-town reason to fake-claim vengeful from faust. Not that I think it was done particularly well, but it's definitely there.
4. faust willingly replied as to when he got his PM
5. He appears to go back and check the setup to see if there's a roleblocker (after saying there isn't, he points out mafia JOAT has a 1-shot)
6. A really, really strong gut feel
I will not be lynching faust today.
I'll vote for mail-mi, ash, e, Eevee, or lio (in that order I think).
L-1
I will hammer faust at the deadline if we get there. A few more hours won't hurt anyone
unvote for sure. Chairs is 99% town I am thinking.vote: Voltaire too many town reads so early in the game.
vote: Voltaire rage vote. I hate hate hate "secret cases" even if they're "secret town slips." Remember the last time someone did this ? Yeah, they were scum.
Oh scum totally tries gutsy plans. All the time.
*squints* Really? D1? Really? Cite examples.
The one that you brought up: Ash&co. in RMM9 (Jimmmm's game) being all on or all off.
That's completely different from a plan to misunderstand the setup D1. That's what we're talking about. Early D1 individual plans.
Okay, I can't think of any specific examples. But i am not going to discredit scum being gutsy on D1. It is very possible.
and I think bringing up the metastat of mail-mi not being alive at the end of the game is scummy... I don't think these games offer a large enough sampling size nor a reliable enough set of variables to draw any conclusions from in this area... unless you are trying to manipulate people into thinking a certain set of conclusions...
Bolded that for you.I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.Before I've read anything else
I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.
I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)
I would like everyone to read this: YES.
I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)
I think I only bring up biases when I'm scum.
and I think bringing up the metastat of mail-mi not being alive at the end of the game is scummy... I don't think these games offer a large enough sampling size nor a reliable enough set of variables to draw any conclusions from in this area... unless you are trying to manipulate people into thinking a certain set of conclusions...
Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?
Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?
Yes. Well, I am not the worst mislynch. The stage we were at, we could have easily lynched a town PR accidentally, I didn't want that to happen. Which is why I'd still like an ash lynch.
Give me some more time, I'm working on an updated reads list.
Voltaire, faust didn't check back about the Roleblocker. Ash talked about Roleblocking, faust said there was no Town Roleblocker in the setup. I said it was a shame there was no Mafia Roleblocker either, because that could have been a scumslip by ash otherwise, and faust responded that there kind of was a Mafia Roleblocker : the JOAT who has a 1-shot Roleblocking.
Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?
Yes. Well, I am not the worst mislynch. The stage we were at, we could have easily lynched a town PR accidentally, I didn't want that to happen. Which is why I'd still like an ash lynch.
Give me some more time, I'm working on an updated reads list.
Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?
Yes. Well, I am not the worst mislynch. The stage we were at, we could have easily lynched a town PR accidentally, I didn't want that to happen. Which is why I'd still like an ash lynch.
Give me some more time, I'm working on an updated reads list.
say what? not the worst mislynch? I know if you voted me I would certifiably be the worst mislynch, because I am town, and any town mislynch is certifiably the worst mislynch.Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?
Yes. Well, I am not the worst mislynch. The stage we were at, we could have easily lynched a town PR accidentally, I didn't want that to happen. Which is why I'd still like an ash lynch.
Give me some more time, I'm working on an updated reads list.
Wouldn't you rather we lynch ash tomorrow for you?
Are you claiming VT right now ?
Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?
Yes. Well, I am not the worst mislynch. The stage we were at, we could have easily lynched a town PR accidentally, I didn't want that to happen. Which is why I'd still like an ash lynch.
Give me some more time, I'm working on an updated reads list.
I'll give you some percentages if you want:FTFY
Voltaire - 37%
Robz888 - 17%
mail-mi - 40%
Chairs - 36%
Ashersky - 42%
Yuma - 24%
Ichimaru Gin - 27%
Lekkit - 20%
Liopoil - 32%
Teproc - 22%
2.7 - 29%
Eevee - 31%
Faust - 90%
I guess I am in a little hurry now, I will post some updated reads for D2 in case you lynch me.
faust, please answer either this:Wouldn't you rather we lynch ash tomorrow for you?
or this:Are you claiming VT right now ?
immediately.
Faust, for one thing, I put a lot of thought into deciding whether your claim was true. Lotta ink was spilled over that. Now you say I did that for nothing, just so you could draw what looks to me like the wrong conclusion about ash? You see how I don;t actually beleibe you would waste my time like that, and are instead scrambling scum?
Faust, for one thing, I put a lot of thought into deciding whether your claim was true. Lotta ink was spilled over that. Now you say I did that for nothing, just so you could draw what looks to me like the wrong conclusion about ash? You see how I don;t actually beleibe you would waste my time like that, and are instead scrambling scum?
Blurrrrrrrrrgh. Town read on faust lessened, but still a town read.Faust, for one thing, I put a lot of thought into deciding whether your claim was true. Lotta ink was spilled over that. Now you say I did that for nothing, just so you could draw what looks to me like the wrong conclusion about ash? You see how I don;t actually beleibe you would waste my time like that, and are instead scrambling scum?
If he's town, you know how people reacted will be really, really good evidence once he flips. Same for if he's scum, really.
I guess I am in a little hurry now, I will post some updated reads for D2 in case you lynch me.
If we lynch you, it will be solely because you lied to us without cause, disappeared, said you lied without any sort of justifiable explanation (other than your scum who wrongly thought you'd get mileage out of that), came back, didn't real satisfy anything, posted reads that don't really matter, and left again.
I guess I am in a little hurry now, I will post some updated reads for D2 in case you lynch me.
If we lynch you, it will be solely because you lied to us without cause, disappeared, said you lied without any sort of justifiable explanation (other than your scum who wrongly thought you'd get mileage out of that), came back, didn't real satisfy anything, posted reads that don't really matter, and left again.
When I claimed, we were scrambling towards the end of the Day, unable to get a real wagon. Something had to happen. Okay, I might not have executed it best, but I think this gives a lot to analyze, which is good.
I'm not even going to entertain a debate over whether what faust did was good or not. It wasn't. But I guess the only question is whether this is something scum did, or town did.
Voltaire, as faust's advocate, maybe you can explain to me why this is more likely something town did?
The thing that's troubling to me is that faust wasn't even particularly close to being lynched when he claimed. Would he fakeclaim as scum with only moderate pressure ? I mean, it seems like a huge risk to take as scum with, what, 2 votes on him at the time ?
I mean, Eevee's reactions to everything going on here will be really useful in future days.
wait.....
I am still on vote: eevee, right?
because I'll surely be on before the deadline
Okay, so the wiki being offline really sucks and honesty I'd prefer if someone just posted all the info. The current situation just feels very unfair to scum.hedge much?
However, while faust's inactivity could be real life-infused, it clearly is scummy here. I approve of the lynch, all the while knowing my jumping on the wagon will look suspicious to some.
Holding off voting until faust gets a chance to react, because I'll surely be on before the deadline, so why not.
/kickball
If not faust, I want to lynch 2.7 for this scummy faust stance.
Ok. Quick question on forum time. So the deadline is 2:20 p.m. Forum time. how does that translate into Pacific. Is it +3 hours relative to my time zone?
Well, Ichimaru is right actually. This jumping around, last-minute-random-voting is exactly what I didn't want. Grr, I am a little mad that I remembered the deadline wrong. At this point, the only reasonable thing to do is probably vote: faust
Do votes against yourself count?
Well, Ichimaru is right actually. This jumping around, last-minute-random-voting is exactly what I didn't want. Grr, I am a little mad that I remembered the deadline wrong. At this point, the only reasonable thing to do is probably vote: faust
STOPPIT.l NOOOOOOO
EEVEE WILL BE HERE BEFORE DEADLINE
Do you think there's actually support for an Eevee lynch?
Well fine. Vote: Eevee. Worth a try.
I'm fine with an Eevee lynch. His play here is very similar to GoT and Toy Story. I'd prefer to lynch mail-mi, but Eevee is good too.
vote: Eevee
Oh, I mean to be voting for 2.7 Vote: 2.7
e trying to start an Eevee wagon when it looked like faust was an easy lynch is making me doubt he's scum.
Robz, which part of my Faust stance post claim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327693#msg327693) did you find most scummy?
The Case on mail-mi, or Why We Really Should Lynch Him D1 This Timeunvote for sure. Chairs is 99% town I am thinking.vote: Voltaire too many town reads so early in the game.
Since when is this scummy/a reason to vote someone?vote: Voltaire rage vote. I hate hate hate "secret cases" even if they're "secret town slips." Remember the last time someone did this ? Yeah, they were scum.
Since when does mail-mi rage vote?Oh scum totally tries gutsy plans. All the time.
*squints* Really? D1? Really? Cite examples.
The one that you brought up: Ash&co. in RMM9 (Jimmmm's game) being all on or all off.
That's completely different from a plan to misunderstand the setup D1. That's what we're talking about. Early D1 individual plans.
Okay, I can't think of any specific examples. But i am not going to discredit scum being gutsy on D1. It is very possible.
Statement with no evidence.
He then does his sheeping, of not lynching chairs, of giving yuma a D1 pass, of plan-less ash, of the case on faust, of the case on lio.
He then has the post where he states I have a bias against him (admittedly true) and claims that town will lose if we lynch him, statistically. I'll let yuma take it from here:and I think bringing up the metastat of mail-mi not being alive at the end of the game is scummy... I don't think these games offer a large enough sampling size nor a reliable enough set of variables to draw any conclusions from in this area... unless you are trying to manipulate people into thinking a certain set of conclusions...
After being called out, mail-mi claims he was only semi-serious! This is the second time he has done this, after claiming his first vote on me (way back at the top of this post) was semi-serious.Bolded that for you.I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.Before I've read anything else
I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.
I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)
I would like everyone to read this: YES.
I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)
I think I only bring up biases when I'm scum.
and I think bringing up the metastat of mail-mi not being alive at the end of the game is scummy... I don't think these games offer a large enough sampling size nor a reliable enough set of variables to draw any conclusions from in this area... unless you are trying to manipulate people into thinking a certain set of conclusions...
Then he votes chairs anyway, despite his previous sheeping of the "chairs is probably a PR". :o
So, I think mail-mi is committing the scum tell of "oh crap, that thing I did was scummy - I was just kidding!" in addition to the fact that he has a general anti-town meta. This lets him live for a very long time, because players (like me in the past) keep saying "lynch mafia not scum" and he gets to skate by. mail-mi has also resorted to irrelevant-to-the-game defenses (like the stats).
The following players have voted mail-mi, stated a willingness to vote mail-mi, or have had him in their most recent lynch pool:
Voltaire, chairs, faust, Robz, (yuma?), e, (lio?)
That's seven, and I probably missed some people/some people would vote him to cause a lynch.
PPE: A lot posted while I was writing this.
His vote on chairs is scummy as well as his "Voltaire always tries to lynch me" defense, which is verifiably false as well as being generally scummy.
So he says that he is fine as a semi-random lynch, and that he voted liopoil for being a fine semi-random lynch as well. Then there is this:I haven't been VLA, if that's what you are asking? Just.. day 1, I just don't see things I find worth commenting that much. I've chimed in every time I've had something reasonable to offer.Are there some specific issues people would like to see me address?
Where have you been/what have you been doing, I guess.
Why shouldn't we lynch you today?
I won't claim that my play has been particularly towny, self meta arguments are dumb. If you want a semi-random lynch of someone who is matching both their town- and scummetas and is not standing out enough, I guess I'm a fine choice. That's the method that landed me on liopoil, pretty much. I'm not scum though.
I try to have my voting history / my reads speak for my towniness - I think that's the hardest thing for scum to manipulate. Obviously that's not very helpul day 1 before the first flip,Basically, Eevee is saying here that I hope to survive D1, because I can be really useful with my reads in later days, while I am not that good right now.
so just trying to survive that.
Well, when I reread mailmi, he seemed scummier at first, but more recently he has made some posts with lighhearted jokes that read to me as someone who isn't nervous or forcing their contributions. yuma had the longer vla, hasn't maybe quite been the leader I'd expect him to, but then again it's kind of hard when you miss a good chunk of the day. yuma too is often nightkilled, he isn't a very good day 1 lynch regardless.Eevee is definitely not nervous or forcing contributions. He gives mail-mi a town read for that. Maybe hoping that people will give him a town read for the same thing? That is just speculation though.
Okay, so the wiki being offline really sucks and honesty I'd prefer if someone just posted all the info. The current situation just feels very unfair to scum.hedging
However, while faust's inactivity could be real life-infused, it clearly is scummy here. I approve of the lynch, all the while knowing my jumping on the wagon will look suspicious to some.
Holding off voting until faust gets a chance to react, because I'll surely be on before the deadline, so why not.
/kickball
Robz what do you make ofe trying to start an Eevee wagon when it looked like faust was an easy lynch is making me doubt he's scum.
Robz what do you make ofe trying to start an Eevee wagon when it looked like faust was an easy lynch is making me doubt he's scum.
There's a difference between opposing the mainstream lynch and trying to launch a third lynch when there are two wagons, one of which is on you.
So, right now 5 people are willing to vote Eevee. The rest is either Eevee or absent. Lekkit? Ichimaru? chairs? liopoil? Where are you?
vote: faust"preservation voting" is a thing? I wonder if you would have come out with the hammer had we already been L-1
for self-preservation first. I'll think about which of the viable lynches I like best now.
So, right now 5 people are willing to vote Eevee. The rest is either Eevee or absent. Lekkit? Ichimaru? chairs? liopoil? Where are you?
If we don't lynch on deadline, no one is lynched.Crap. That seems really bad. No-lynch normally hurts town right?
I'd rather lynch faust than no lynch so I'll do that at some point if it's needed, but there's still a little time left.
Eevee (5): 2.7..., faust, Teproc, mail-mi, Voltaireoops. Robz is right
faust (6): ashersky, Lekkit, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin, yuma, Eevee
7 to lynch
Eevee (4): 2.7..., faust, Teproc, mail-miDebating with self..... Still debating.... Should I hammer? I can't decide. Well, we have a little more time.
faust (6): ashersky, Lekkit, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin, yuma, Eevee
7 to lynch
what, you didn't want to hear from liopoil? Not that he would have shown up. I don't know if he said anything one way or the otherEevee (4): 2.7..., faust, Teproc, mail-miDebating with self..... Still debating.... Should I hammer? I can't decide. Well, we have a little more time.
faust (6): ashersky, Lekkit, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin, yuma, Eevee
7 to lynch
PPE: okay I think I will. vote: faust
Knowing him, the likelihood that he showed up in the next half hour is small. And he's probably scum so yeah.what, you didn't want to hear from liopoil? Not that he would have shown up. I don't know if he said anything one way or the otherEevee (4): 2.7..., faust, Teproc, mail-miDebating with self..... Still debating.... Should I hammer? I can't decide. Well, we have a little more time.
faust (6): ashersky, Lekkit, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin, yuma, Eevee
7 to lynch
PPE: okay I think I will. vote: faust
what, you didn't want to hear from liopoil? Not that he would have shown up. I don't know if he said anything one way or the otherEevee (4): 2.7..., faust, Teproc, mail-miDebating with self..... Still debating.... Should I hammer? I can't decide. Well, we have a little more time.
faust (6): ashersky, Lekkit, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin, yuma, Eevee
7 to lynch
PPE: okay I think I will. vote: faust
And here I was, thinking I could get my first self-hammer in :(I don't think that would be a stat that you generally want to have on record
And here I was, thinking I could get my first self-hammer in :(Hehe I already have one.
And here I was, thinking I could get my first self-hammer in :(I don't think that would be a stat that you generally want to have on record
Not too happy with the way this day went... hopefully faust's flip will be useful but I think he's going to flip VT.
one thing is certain: Faust has a terrible D1 record for getting lynched
Dang, I got lucky and was able to check in... looks like I'm too late. looks like faust got lynched, which is good. but he's claiminng VT?? madness!! I'm not caught up, so I don't know if I believe him or not. we'll find out soon I guess.
mail-mi hammered faust.
Dang, I got lucky and was able to check in... looks like I'm too late. looks like faust got lynched, which is good. but he's claiminng VT?? madness!! I'm not caught up, so I don't know if I believe him or not. we'll find out soon I guess.
Does he really have any motivation to lie now?
(not sarcastic question).
So do we get a mod message telling us what he really was?
Or does that only happen for people that get night killed?
Well if faust flips VT I'm fine with this lynch.
My town narrative was predicated on him being the Hider trying to tell us he was going to hide behind ash. So eh.
Well if faust flips VT I'm fine with this lynch.that seems flimsy
My town narrative was predicated on him being the Hider trying to tell us he was going to hide behind ash. So eh.
Well if faust flips VT I'm fine with this lynch.
My town narrative was predicated on him being the Hider trying to tell us he was going to hide behind ash. So eh.
Oh! What? That's random.
vote: e
vote: e
Why?
@yuma, it's this. I know I also voted for chairs, but the reasoning is all wrong to me.Ok. I am going to do something crazy.This post gives me all the wrong feelings. Not the vote, cause I think the vote is fine. The entire post. Like, "Yeah he could be a PR but guess what--we have could have 7!" just rubs me all the wrong ways. vote: e to have it somewhere before faust comes.
vote: chairs
Yes, I get that he could be a PR. I get that. I saw it as soon as Voltaire mentioned the secret case before he had to explain it to the whole world
But
he could also be scum. (or the SK)
JK9++ could have up to 7(!) town PRs. that is a lot. Chairs could also be our only PR. Or he could be one of many. We could have a SK. We might not. Which is why JK9++ is impossible to "solve" D1. Which will make it super fun later on, but right now is kind of annoying since we don't know anything.
However, I am looking at viable lynches and who we will actually learn something about going into D2. We will learn stuff about chairs. I also think we have the votes to pull it off.
I believe mail-mi, Ashersky, Lekkit, Eevee, myself will all vote chairs. The interesting thing is that this basically is almost all of everyone's scum reads (except liopoil). So this is also intriguing if he does flip scum. Now, if he flips town PR we will all feel bad and have nice little accusations thrown at us.
But the point is, we can learn more from a chairs lynch than any other lynch right now.
Oh wait, deadline is 2:20, which is 12:20, which means I won't be on until then. Well, vote: liopoil because he's more viable.
GAH!mostly agree with this. claiming a PR as VT specifically bad, but as PR there are more situations where it could be acceptable. But yeah, please be certain that what you are doing is pro-town, not just that "hey, doing this is more fun! and it might not be totally terrible!" And that's when it comes to role claiming... I think my little lie yesterday about the setup was fine, yes?
Apparently this needs to be said... again... I keep thinking we are beyond this point, but we never seem to get past it.
1. Don't lie as town. Ever. (well maybe not ever, but pretty darn close) you might think your lie helps town, but... it doesn't. In all my games I can think of one lie that helped town (Galz in Buffy claiming to be a 1-shot cop instead of a full cop, vey innocuous, not blatant, just simple little elegant deception). But the rule is don't lie. Think a really long time before you do. But really, just don't.
2. Don't claim unless you are at L-1 with intent to hammer, unless you have a guilty result. Just don't. And don't even claim then unless you think it necessary. Few exceptions to the rule, but in all likelyhood if you are thinking of doing it you shouldn't.
Faust, I like you, I like that you have joined the community, but you blew it here. And why did you wait until after I had left for the day to admit to lying... not that I would have reacted any differently that everyone else... but still... that was so frustrating being able to read the posts as they came in, but not able to post... GAH... bad my whole work day bad.
Seriously guys. I am not saying I am an IC. But the above needs to be take seriously, seriously... Seriously.
I think my little lie yesterday about the setup was fine, yes?
About what happened: I can definitely see why scum lynched Eevee. I mean, I basically breadcrumbed Eevee into looking like a PR with all of my "oh he will be useful later but not on D1" talk. I totally was not looking for Eevee to be a town PR, I was looking for him to be scum, so I did not even consider the possibility that he really might have been much more useful in future days (as a PR). Clearly scum, since they knew he wasn't scum, picked up on that and thought he would be a good kill. So I am probably responsible (somewhat) for his death. Although, had he been more active and actually given reads and stuff then he might still be alive. Another reason he makes a good kill for them is because he had no strong reads D1. At all. I mean, he said liopoil was his lynch of choice, but also said he ended up on that vote through PoE and "random mislynch options" and Robz' toy story reasoning.Vote: E
GAH!
Apparently this needs to be said... again... I keep thinking we are beyond this point, but we never seem to get past it.
1. Don't lie as town. Ever. (well maybe not ever, but pretty darn close) you might think your lie helps town, but... it doesn't. In all my games I can think of one lie that helped town (Galz in Buffy claiming to be a 1-shot cop instead of a full cop, vey innocuous, not blatant, just simple little elegant deception). But the rule is don't lie. Think a really long time before you do. But really, just don't.
2. Don't claim unless you are at L-1 with intent to hammer, unless you have a guilty result. Just don't. And don't even claim then unless you think it necessary. Few exceptions to the rule, but in all likelyhood if you are thinking of doing it you shouldn't.
Faust, I like you, I like that you have joined the community, but you blew it here. And why did you wait until after I had left for the day to admit to lying... not that I would have reacted any differently that everyone else... but still... that was so frustrating being able to read the posts as they came in, but not able to post... GAH... bad my whole work day bad.
Seriously guys. I am not saying I am an IC. But the above needs to be take seriously, seriously... Seriously.
About what happened: I can definitely see why scum lynched Eevee. I mean, I basically breadcrumbed Eevee into looking like a PR with all of my "oh he will be useful later but not on D1" talk. I totally was not looking for Eevee to be a town PR, I was looking for him to be scum, so I did not even consider the possibility that he really might have been much more useful in future days (as a PR). Clearly scum, since they knew he wasn't scum, picked up on that and thought he would be a good kill. So I am probably responsible (somewhat) for his death. Although, had he been more active and actually given reads and stuff then he might still be alive. Another reason he makes a good kill for them is because he had no strong reads D1. At all. I mean, he said liopoil was his lynch of choice, but also said he ended up on that vote through PoE and "random mislynch options" and Robz' toy story reasoning.Vote: E
I think that he as scum thought eevee was a PR, and his talk about him being useful later was scum thinking that he was a PR, and so in the case that eevee ends up claiming at L-1 he looks townie. Scum almost certainly killed eevee because they thought eevee was a PR. Plus, E has too many reasons explaining why scum killed eevee, clearly has been thinking about who scum should kill a lot.
I'm considering the e wagon. But I also want to go over and review again what occurred with Faust--in light of him flipping VT. Why did he feel so strongly that Ash was scum? His behavior didn't really make sense to me--yet his goal seemed to be taking down Ash. And he obv felt pretty strongly about it.
Also, concerning Faust's meta, is he relatively new to this community? Was his behavior pretty much in line with what he normally does, or was this an unexpected gambit? There may not be a lot we can learn from his wagon, but it got some of the strongest reactions D1--and at least served the purpose of stirring things up a little bit.
I'd like to hear from Ash about everything that's happened since his absence.
oh yeah, ashersky, why did you claim to be 100% sure?
oh yeah, ashersky, why did you claim to be 100% sure?
oh yeah, ashersky, why did you claim to be 100% sure?
I had a strong read that I trusted. I've rarely been more sure of something in a mafia game. And, well, he was lying. That basically proves me right.
His alignment didn't match his behavior or his actions. I still stand by my read that he was 100% scummy. Just turned out he was playing against his wincon.
100% scummy doesn't mean 100% certain. you do realize that if you were actually 100% certain about something a million times, then you would be correct a million times? not 999,999 times! because faust flipped town, you either weren't really 100% certain, or you are scum.oh yeah, ashersky, why did you claim to be 100% sure?
I had a strong read that I trusted. I've rarely been more sure of something in a mafia game. And, well, he was lying. That basically proves me right.
His alignment didn't match his behavior or his actions. I still stand by my read that he was 100% scummy. Just turned out he was playing against his wincon.
Vote: ashersky until he gives some explanation that accounts for his 100% scum read on faust, without resorting to the excuse of faust's fake claim. That's not valid for you; you were confident BEFORE the fake claim.
Vote: ashersky until he gives some explanation that accounts for his 100% scum read on faust, without resorting to the excuse of faust's fake claim. That's not valid for you; you were confident BEFORE the fake claim.
vote: Robz
OMGUS, plus, he's alive. Town!Robz does NOT live to D2.
100% scummy doesn't mean 100% certain. you do realize that if you were actually 100% certain about something a million times, then you would be correct a million times? not 999,999 times! because faust flipped town, you either weren't really 100% certain, or you are scum.oh yeah, ashersky, why did you claim to be 100% sure?
I had a strong read that I trusted. I've rarely been more sure of something in a mafia game. And, well, he was lying. That basically proves me right.
His alignment didn't match his behavior or his actions. I still stand by my read that he was 100% scummy. Just turned out he was playing against his wincon.
Vote: ashersky until he gives some explanation that accounts for his 100% scum read on faust, without resorting to the excuse of faust's fake claim. That's not valid for you; you were confident BEFORE the fake claim.
vote: Robz
OMGUS, plus, he's alive. Town!Robz does NOT live to D2.
Except dozens of times. Why don't you just answer the question?
Nope, I've never been 100% certain about anything really...100% scummy doesn't mean 100% certain. you do realize that if you were actually 100% certain about something a million times, then you would be correct a million times? not 999,999 times! because faust flipped town, you either weren't really 100% certain, or you are scum.oh yeah, ashersky, why did you claim to be 100% sure?
I had a strong read that I trusted. I've rarely been more sure of something in a mafia game. And, well, he was lying. That basically proves me right.
His alignment didn't match his behavior or his actions. I still stand by my read that he was 100% scummy. Just turned out he was playing against his wincon.
Have you never been 100% certain of something, and then you turned out to be wrong? That doesn't change the fact that you thought you were 100% certain.
There's a difference between certainty and accuracy. Go read RSP to see plenty of people 100% certain something is true, even when it isn't provable with a flip (although I guess when you die, you find out).
Nope, I've never been 100% certain about anything really...
Vote: ashersky until he gives some explanation that accounts for his 100% scum read on faust, without resorting to the excuse of faust's fake claim. That's not valid for you; you were confident BEFORE the fake claim.
vote: Robz
OMGUS, plus, he's alive. Town!Robz does NOT live to D2.
Except dozens of times. Why don't you just answer the question?
What question? I was 100% certain Faust was scum. Turns out I was wrong. That does not change the fact that I was 100% certain. I wasn't 100% accurate, obviously.
I had a huge scum read on the guy the entire day. He clearly descended into madness, which just added to it. He WAS scummy, before and after the lie. The lie just solidified it for everyone else. I already knew.
Again, turned out I was wrong. Not the first time.
Vote: ashersky until he gives some explanation that accounts for his 100% scum read on faust, without resorting to the excuse of faust's fake claim. That's not valid for you; you were confident BEFORE the fake claim.
You're avoiding the question! WHY were you 100% certain about faust?
sure, there's always a barely non-zero chance aliens are infiltrating my brain or something ridiculous like that.Nope, I've never been 100% certain about anything really...
Um, okay then? I don't know what to say to that. You've never been sure 100% sure that your parents are really your parents, or that any number multiplied by zero is zero (I'm assuming there's a math edgecase to this...), or that you and that high school girlfriend were going to be together forever?
pretty sure the point is why you thought the case was good enough to be so certain. We all saw the same things you did, none of us reacted anywhere close to the way you did.You're avoiding the question! WHY were you 100% certain about faust?
He was scummy. I picked up on it. I laid out my case multiple times on D1.
Except what you pointed out is not somethingtowndoes, which I pointed out.
vote: ashersky
No one listens, and I'm annoyed. I'd rather you lynch me than not.
How was he scummy?You're avoiding the question! WHY were you 100% certain about faust?
He was scummy. I picked up on it. I laid out my case multiple times on D1.
yeah, usually when ashersky does the crazy town!ash thing I get the sense that it's crazy town!ash doing it. Not this time. And robz I think also reads ashersky well, especially when ash is town. I'm ready to vote for ashersky, but it's early in the day, I don't even want to put him at L-2. I don't think everyone has even posted yet, we might have a guilty result on someone or the like.
How was he scummy?You're avoiding the question! WHY were you 100% certain about faust?
He was scummy. I picked up on it. I laid out my case multiple times on D1.
Thank you.How was he scummy?You're avoiding the question! WHY were you 100% certain about faust?
He was scummy. I picked up on it. I laid out my case multiple times on D1.
Really, I need to go back to my D1 posts and quote them?
He was looking for the easy mislynch, he reacted badly to pressure, he tried to shift conversations in the middle of topics, and then he lied about his role to try and "trap" someone, but really just could have resulted in outing a real town PR.
If the goal of D2 is to mislynch again, mislynch me. I was adamantly convinced that faust was scum. It was based on all of his posts, all of his words, all of his ideas. Then it was based on his fake claim, which I and many others correctly pointed out as fake. If you can't accept any of that, then lynch me out of the game.
Thank you.
Now let's lynch e
vote: 2.7also, suspicious because no longer self-voting, even though he said:
I'd rather you lynch me than not.
vote: ashersky
Nope, I've never been 100% certain about anything really...
Um, okay then? I don't know what to say to that. You've never been sure 100% sure that your parents are really your parents, or that any number multiplied by zero is zero (I'm assuming there's a math edgecase to this...), or that you and that high school girlfriend were going to be together forever?
yuma, that's L-1
Unvote
yeah, usually when ashersky does the crazy town!ash thing I get the sense that it's crazy town!ash doing it. Not this time. And robz I think also reads ashersky well, especially when ash is town. I'm ready to vote for ashersky, but it's early in the day, I don't even want to put him at L-2. I don't think everyone has even posted yet, we might have a guilty result on someone or the like.
I think you should follow your cold heart and vote. You think your parents might be aliens. That's harsh.
fair enough. I mean, for all that it really matters I'm 100% certain my parents aren't aliens. If I were to put an actual percentage to it, it would have a lot of 9s on it. rounding up doesn't change much.Nope, I've never been 100% certain about anything really...
Um, okay then? I don't know what to say to that. You've never been sure 100% sure that your parents are really your parents, or that any number multiplied by zero is zero (I'm assuming there's a math edgecase to this...), or that you and that high school girlfriend were going to be together forever?
I think both of you are approaching the word "certain" from different perspectives. liopoil's is obviously from a more math centric viewpoint, ash from a more... what is the word...? humanist? (not quite the word, but you get the point) that you guys have different backgrounds and ways of looking at things based off your own experiences so don't expect the other to interpret the same word the same way....
I for one know that when ash says "100% certain" he isn't actually "100% certain" from a mathematical point of view. If he was, he would have told us via a result, which wasn't possible at that point in the game so obviously he was more "100 certain that he was convinced"
because I for one am not ready for the day to end.yuma, that's L-1
Unvote
and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.
Plus, E has too many reasons explaining why scum killed eevee, clearly has been thinking about who scum should kill a lot.
For now, I'm going to vote: e. He seemed overaware of Eevee's death. And indirectly "taking responsibility" for it just feels scummy to me as well.Let me ask a question: why is it a bad thing to try to figure out why scum would kill who they did during the night? I think it is very beneficial to town to consider these things. I am glad that you are doing the same. Oh wait. You aren't. You would much prefer to get a quick lynch in before anyone can say anything about it. Before anyone can say anything about it. Chairs is still alive in this game, right?
because I for one am not ready for the day to end.yuma, that's L-1
Unvote
and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.
yuma, that's L-1
Unvote
and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.
why should I want him to unvote? his self-voting is good for us if he's scum, which I think he is.because I for one am not ready for the day to end.yuma, that's L-1
Unvote
and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.
Sure... neither am I. Lekkit and teproc have yet to post I think... but ashersky should be the one to unvote, not you. You unvoting removes the pressure for him to unvote and start using his vote in a constructive manner.
Ashersky - I do not see how voting yourself is pro-town. Please enlighten me.
And you're intentionally being anti-town because....?
Glad you cleared that up. I was pretty sure it was anti-town. My question: why the vote then? Are you town fed up with being suspected or are you scum resigning yourself to a certain fate? I know limiting you to two different possibilities is bold because you are known to do just about anything.
Ashersky - I do not see how voting yourself is pro-town. Please enlighten me.
It's not pro-town. It's anti-town. Yuma (and anyone else opposing my self-vote) is correct there.
All right. I am not ready to lynch anyone yet. Let alone myself.Plus, E has too many reasons explaining why scum killed eevee, clearly has been thinking about who scum should kill a lot.For now, I'm going to vote: e. He seemed overaware of Eevee's death. And indirectly "taking responsibility" for it just feels scummy to me as well.Let me ask a question: why is it a bad thing to try to figure out why scum would kill who they did during the night? I think it is very beneficial to town to consider these things. I am glad that you are doing the same. Oh wait. You aren't. You would much prefer to get a quick lynch in before anyone can say anything about it. Before anyone can say anything about it. Chairs is still alive in this game, right?
PPE: 2
Glad you cleared that up. I was pretty sure it was anti-town. My question: why the vote then? Are you town fed up with being suspected or are you scum resigning yourself to a certain fate? I know limiting you to two different possibilities is bold because you are known to do just about anything.
Ashersky - I do not see how voting yourself is pro-town. Please enlighten me.
It's not pro-town. It's anti-town. Yuma (and anyone else opposing my self-vote) is correct there.
I, for one, thought you were town all of D1. I, for one, do not want to lynch anti-town behavior, I want to lynch scum. I am not entirely convinced you are scum. However, I will policy vote for you tomorrow after Lekkit and teproc have had a chance to post if you are still voting yourself.
PPE:2
yeah, usually when ashersky does the crazy town!ash thing I get the sense that it's crazy town!ash doing it. Not this time. And robz I think also reads ashersky well, especially when ash is town. I'm ready to vote for ashersky, but it's early in the day, I don't even want to put him at L-2. I don't think everyone has even posted yet, we might have a guilty result on someone or the like.ash, I know you saw this post, you even responded to it. Don't claim I only decided to do it because you moved your self-vote, that's just not true. This post is while you are self-voting, and e is still at L-3 or something like that.
yeah, usually when ashersky does the crazy town!ash thing I get the sense that it's crazy town!ash doing it. Not this time. And robz I think also reads ashersky well, especially when ash is town. I'm ready to vote for ashersky, but it's early in the day, I don't even want to put him at L-2. I don't think everyone has even posted yet, we might have a guilty result on someone or the like.ash, I know you saw this post, you even responded to it. Don't claim I only decided to do it because you moved your self-vote, that's just not true. This post is while you are self-voting, and e is still at L-3 or something like that.
lio and 2.7 = asherlynch.you see, I don't want to hammer you, because that would be scummy because I am a target right now. No, wait. thats not how it works. If I DONT hammer you it is scummy because then I am scum trying to get town points for not hammering you when I am a lynch candidate. But since I know that now, I DO want to hammer you. Or I don't want to hammer you. Ichimaru could you could you straighten this out for me?
lio and 2.7 = asherlynch.you see, I don't want to hammer you, because that would be scummy because I am a target right now. No, wait. thats not how it works. If I DONT hammer you it is scummy because then I am scum trying to get town points for not hammering you when I am a lynch candidate. But since I know that now, I DO want to hammer you. Or I don't want to hammer you. Ichimaru could you could you straighten this out for me?
All joking aside, the reason I did not hammer Faust when I had the opportunity was because (at the time) I believed him to be town. The reason I am not voting Ash right now is because I lean town on him. However, as I mentioned, I will policy vote him tomorrow after everyone has at least posted some thoughts unless something changes. I recognize how voting for yourself might be used as a tactic, but I do not see how it is helpful to us in this game. If Ash is indeed town, I trust that he will do the right thing and remove his vote.
Don't policy vote him, just vote for who you think is scum.
Don't policy vote him, just vote for who you think is scum.
Agree with this statement.
I think yuma's the only policy voter on my wagon, right?
Robz, I think I answered your questions during your absence.
On the phone now. Will post later. I'm actively opposed to a 2.7 lynch. I'm not sure about ash. Chairs being alive is probably not weird. Ichimaru Gin looks like the most opportunistic voter ever. More thoughts as I'll be at a computer in an hour or so.Well nice to finally hear from you Lekkit. . .
Wait I'm confused now... You didn't put ash at L-1.
Wait I'm confused now... You didn't put ash at L-1.
He didn't, which he's pointing out to say he's not as opportunistic as you say he is.
Well, we need to hear from people who haven't spoken yet. I would be particularly interested to here from chairs, given certain assumptions.
only reason I didn't vote you was because that would put you at L-2 on a fast growing wagon. see the above, I'll even requote the relevant bit for you:yeah, usually when ashersky does the crazy town!ash thing I get the sense that it's crazy town!ash doing it. Not this time. And robz I think also reads ashersky well, especially when ash is town. I'm ready to vote for ashersky, but it's early in the day, I don't even want to put him at L-2. I don't think everyone has even posted yet, we might have a guilty result on someone or the like.ash, I know you saw this post, you even responded to it. Don't claim I only decided to do it because you moved your self-vote, that's just not true. This post is while you are self-voting, and e is still at L-3 or something like that.
You said that, but didn't vote. You voted because of my vote on 2.7, after having voted myself. That's my point, which you are proving. You didn't vote me for my self-vote, you used my switch to 2.7 as a reason to vote me right after you said you didn't want to.
I'm ready to vote for ashersky, but it's early in the day, I don't even want to put him at L-2. I don't think everyone has even posted yet, we might have a guilty result on someone or the like.
I agree with ash's argument on scum!liowhaaaat? I've been just ignoring ash's things he says about me that are scummy because they're silly, but now I see he actually convinced someone?
Ichimaru Gin. very scummy in all. Opportunistic voting, only following other people's cases and not contributing much. Could possibly be due to him being new.I find it very ironic that you say I am not contributing much.
oh yeah.... could scum really have suspected eevee to be a PR more than they suspect chairs to be PR? that makes chairs look pretty bad, actually...
My take on Ichimaru- We need to decide if his opportunistic voting is newb!scum or newb!town. Since he is a new player, he may just be excited about trying to lynch someone and could very well be town. However, he could also be scum and not realize how scummy it makes him look. I just wonder if his scum partner would have warned him about that overnight in their qt as he exhibited the same behaviors on D1. So I lean a little town on him. However, he does need more reads than sheep!votes
oh yeah.... could scum really have suspected eevee to be a PR more than they suspect chairs to be PR? that makes chairs look pretty bad, actually...This makes sense. I don't know why chairs isn't posting. I recall something about a live-in-lady-friend. Of the games I've read, he seems to have a lurker meta though.
Also, to everyone saying 2.7's post about Eevee is scummy - this is one of those "we call it scummy but scum never does it" things. I did it in GoT and yuma thought I was scummy for it (we were both town). I've seen many people accused of it but never seen them flip scum.
I'm here and caught up. I think the ash wagon is just weird. Robz, if you think ash votes for faust for weak reasons (I agree with that), what's changed ? faust's flip doesn't really change much to me, ash's reasons were already weak then.
The case against Ichimaru is so good it must actually be terrible. Partners would have warned him not to make every single newbie scum mistake in the book.
I could see him as a partnerless SK, but we don't have a good reason to think there's an SK right now.
Yes. It's why I got mislynched D1 in ash's newbie game. I see myself in Gin, and as such will not participate in lynching him.My take on Ichimaru- We need to decide if his opportunistic voting is newb!scum or newb!town. Since he is a new player, he may just be excited about trying to lynch someone and could very well be town. However, he could also be scum and not realize how scummy it makes him look. I just wonder if his scum partner would have warned him about that overnight in their qt as he exhibited the same behaviors on D1. So I lean a little town on him. However, he does need more reads than sheep!votes
It's usually new!town in my experience. It's where I've had the most success (trying to) stop "easy" mislynches.
Of course, mail-mi votes that way even though he's not new. Did mail-mi vote that way when he was new town?
why should I want him to unvote? his self-voting is good for us if he's scum, which I think he is.because I for one am not ready for the day to end.yuma, that's L-1
Unvote
and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.
Sure... neither am I. Lekkit and teproc have yet to post I think... but ashersky should be the one to unvote, not you. You unvoting removes the pressure for him to unvote and start using his vote in a constructive manner.
The problem now, though, is if I unvote, it's scummy because "hey ash doesn't want to die he's scum!" is sure to be tossed out by someone. So it's a catch-22. Sure, it's partly my own doing, from 30-some games of creating my own meta. Still exists, though, and there's little to be done.
Policy voting is not much better than self-voting. We are trying to win this game, future games shouldn't matter.
Also, why do people find 2.7 scummy? I don't really get it. That he didn't hammer faust? That he voted for chairs? The most compelling case against him is that he wasn't posting much until yuma called him out. But I think even that's a pretty weak case.
he won't unvote if he's town, he said himself that he'd rather get lynched than not get lynched.why should I want him to unvote? his self-voting is good for us if he's scum, which I think he is.because I for one am not ready for the day to end.yuma, that's L-1
Unvote
and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.
Sure... neither am I. Lekkit and teproc have yet to post I think... but ashersky should be the one to unvote, not you. You unvoting removes the pressure for him to unvote and start using his vote in a constructive manner.
If you think he is scum this much this is exactly why you you should be voting for him, L-1 be damned. Again, let him worry about being at L-1. If he is town he will unvote, if he is scum he will probably unvote as well and if he doesn't then he gets lynched and we are happy.
Ichimaru Gin. very scummy in all. Opportunistic voting, only following other people's cases and not contributing much. Could possibly be due to him being new.
chairs. The fact that he didn't die tonight means basically nothing. But the fact that he hasn't really done anything at all makes him pretty suspicious in my opinion.
ashersky. Does crazy stuff. I tend to lean scummy on him by default. No exception here, but aside from that, I can't really make sense of ash's play at all. Playing against your wincon (selfvoting) is never good, though.
Voltaire. I was pretty suspicious of him earlier, especially since he disappeared at the end of the day and then reappeared closer to the deadline. I've cooled down somewhat here. Especially since a lot of other players seems to think he's towny. And that many players having an expressed town read on someone might mean that I'm wrong.
The case against Ichimaru is so good it must actually be terrible. Partners would have warned him not to make every single newbie scum mistake in the book.
The case against Ichimaru is so good it must actually be terrible. Partners would have warned him not to make every single newbie scum mistake in the book.
he won't unvote if he's town, he said himself that he'd rather get lynched than not get lynched.why should I want him to unvote? his self-voting is good for us if he's scum, which I think he is.because I for one am not ready for the day to end.yuma, that's L-1
Unvote
and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.
Sure... neither am I. Lekkit and teproc have yet to post I think... but ashersky should be the one to unvote, not you. You unvoting removes the pressure for him to unvote and start using his vote in a constructive manner.
If you think he is scum this much this is exactly why you you should be voting for him, L-1 be damned. Again, let him worry about being at L-1. If he is town he will unvote, if he is scum he will probably unvote as well and if he doesn't then he gets lynched and we are happy.
So, do people agree with me that chairs should claim ? The main reason we usually don't want people to claim out of the blue is that they might be NKed, but scum probably knows that chairs is a PR already, so why not make him claim and see what his N1 action was ? It gives us more info about the setup (although it does give info to scum too, possibly), and if he's lying scum his result might get him in trouble. I'm pretty sure his survival means he'd get run up to L-1 anyway (I'd certainly vote for him), so I think we might as well do it now.
Honestly, I'll be completely focused on family time for the Christmas holidays, so basically LA until Monday.
Also, why do people find 2.7 scummy? I don't really get it. That he didn't hammer faust? That he voted for chairs? The most compelling case against him is that he wasn't posting much until yuma called him out. But I think even that's a pretty weak case.
Lekkit you never explained why you had 2.7 at like a 10% day1. And I still want it answered. I can see maybe you having a null read, but you had an extremely strong read. I want that explained. Both your read then and your current read now.
well, he did just move his vote, so I dunno... hmmmm. Not sure what to think anymore.he won't unvote if he's town, he said himself that he'd rather get lynched than not get lynched.why should I want him to unvote? his self-voting is good for us if he's scum, which I think he is.because I for one am not ready for the day to end.yuma, that's L-1
Unvote
and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.
Sure... neither am I. Lekkit and teproc have yet to post I think... but ashersky should be the one to unvote, not you. You unvoting removes the pressure for him to unvote and start using his vote in a constructive manner.
If you think he is scum this much this is exactly why you you should be voting for him, L-1 be damned. Again, let him worry about being at L-1. If he is town he will unvote, if he is scum he will probably unvote as well and if he doesn't then he gets lynched and we are happy.
Do you think he really means that or do you think that was something he said when he was frustrated and annoyed?
Ok then. I think the best odds of finding scum right now is chairs. Of course scum might have been framing him by going PR-hunting, but it's not like Eevee was a surefire PR or anything, he had expressed disliking day 1s before and could easily have been a VT. He also seemed scummy to a lot of people, so by killing him, mafia also lost a potential mislynch if he was VT. This leads me to think that the probability of chairs being scum is much higher than the probability of a scumteam trying to frame him.
vote: chairs
well I guess I'll note that I will be pretty absent as well although if everyone is absent I guess no one will notice... probably won't post much at all tomorrow, nothing Wednesday and very little again on Thursday...
Are the mods considering adding two days to the deadline? If not can I request that they consider it?
well I guess I'll note that I will be pretty absent as well although if everyone is absent I guess no one will notice... probably won't post much at all tomorrow, nothing Wednesday and very little again on Thursday...
Are the mods considering adding two days to the deadline? If not can I request that they consider it?
Yeah. Same here.
I will get Faust done sometime late tonight/tomorrow unless someone beats me to it.So I really thought I would get this done yesterday or even today, but I am pushing it off again. I will go back and examine that lynch and see what similarities/differences it has with the Eevee wagon and what I think we can infer from that. However, that is not a task for right now, as I need to sleep. We still have a week before the new deadline
I think you neglected Phase 0: ash is 100% convinced Faust is scum.
That was before anyone else, even you, had anything on him.
I think you neglected Phase 0: ash is 100% convinced Faust is scum.
That was before anyone else, even you, had anything on him.
And why would you do that, as town? You know better. You acted as though you were a N0 cop with a scum result.
I think you neglected Phase 0: ash is 100% convinced Faust is scum.
That was before anyone else, even you, had anything on him.
And why would you do that, as town? You know better. You acted as though you were a N0 cop with a scum result.
I was very sure. Faust was, in fact, 100% scummy, even going to the point of fake claiming. Why would he play like scum on purpose? Maybe he didn't like rolling VT.
I think you neglected Phase 0: ash is 100% convinced Faust is scum.
That was before anyone else, even you, had anything on him.
And why would you do that, as town? You know better. You acted as though you were a N0 cop with a scum result.
I was very sure. Faust was, in fact, 100% scummy, even going to the point of fake claiming. Why would he play like scum on purpose? Maybe he didn't like rolling VT.
But wasn't your sureness before all of that happened?
I think you neglected Phase 0: ash is 100% convinced Faust is scum.
That was before anyone else, even you, had anything on him.
And why would you do that, as town? You know better. You acted as though you were a N0 cop with a scum result.
I was very sure. Faust was, in fact, 100% scummy, even going to the point of fake claiming. Why would he play like scum on purpose? Maybe he didn't like rolling VT.
But wasn't your sureness before all of that happened?
No, we were all assigned roles before the game started.
vote: voltaire for tunneling me without cause.
vote: voltaire for tunneling me without cause.
Without cause? There is no town narrative for you, and you've attempted to distort the facts about every vote on you and the timing/reasoning for your faust read/actions. That's plenty cause.
vote: voltaire for tunneling me without cause.
Without cause? There is no town narrative for you, and you've attempted to distort the facts about every vote on you and the timing/reasoning for your faust read/actions. That's plenty cause.
Town Volt is usually right, though. You are wrong here, so more likely scum (or mistaken town, I guess, but that rarely happens to you.)
vote: voltaire for tunneling me without cause.
Without cause? There is no town narrative for you, and you've attempted to distort the facts about every vote on you and the timing/reasoning for your faust read/actions. That's plenty cause.
Town Volt is usually right, though. You are wrong here, so more likely scum (or mistaken town, I guess, but that rarely happens to you.)
So, are you agreeing with me about your actions?
The "town!Volt is awesome" case is still not a case. Only ever been advanced by scum.
Lynch me and find out, dude.
My actions can be painted as scummy, absolutely. In some universes, they in fact would be scummy. Doesn't make me scum, just as it turned out Faust was town, unless BM.
Lynch me and find out, dude.
My actions can be painted as scummy, absolutely. In some universes, they in fact would be scummy. Doesn't make me scum, just as it turned out Faust was town, unless BM.
I'm voting for you, dude.
So you admit there's no town narrative for what you've done?
I haven't posted since the 23rd ? Dear God. I've actually been caught up, it's just that I have mostly been reading on my phone and I hate phone posting. Also, I'm not super interested in the ash conversation. He's being annoying with his insistence that he was right even though he was obviously wrong, but I didn't think his insane certainty was scummy then, and I still don't think it's scummy now.
I made a post in the V/LA thread, yuma, look harder.
I made a post in the V/LA thread, yuma, look harder. I'm V/LA until tuesday, but I am able to check in once a day for a short while. last couple days I've read the two posts that were made or something like that, seen that there's nothing important happening, and gone to take my turns in non-mafia games so that they can continue. robz, I find it interesting that you are asking what the case on me is when you advocated my lynch yesterday!
The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same. I'd guess he copy and pasted it.Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?
The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same. I'd guess he copy and pasted it.Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?
The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same. I'd guess he copy and pasted it.Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?
I have no idea if I said that or not and don't see why it is relevant here....
I copied the last statement above and put it at the top so that people wouldn't have to read through the slog before getting to the bottom and realizing I would be writing up a more concise post later... cause that would be annoying.
Are you asking if being considerate to others is scummy? Cause the answer I hope would be no.
That's unfair, Yuma. You know I am one of the staunchest defenders of separation of game and IRL.
I believe the statement, that you had pressing family needs. I'd rather you had just saved your text someone and handled it, as baby is more important.
But, you posted, in the game thread (as opposed to VLA, for example), so I am obliged to study it. And the copy/paste stuck out as a possible scum tell for you. So I noted it.
See: ashs post.The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same. I'd guess he copy and pasted it.Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?
I have no idea if I said that or not and don't see why it is relevant here....
I copied the last statement above and put it at the top so that people wouldn't have to read through the slog before getting to the bottom and realizing I would be writing up a more concise post later... cause that would be annoying.
Are you asking if being considerate to others is scummy? Cause the answer I hope would be no.
See: ashs post.The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same. I'd guess he copy and pasted it.Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?
I have no idea if I said that or not and don't see why it is relevant here....
I copied the last statement above and put it at the top so that people wouldn't have to read through the slog before getting to the bottom and realizing I would be writing up a more concise post later... cause that would be annoying.
Are you asking if being considerate to others is scummy? Cause the answer I hope would be no.
No, it isnt. Ash pointed something out, which triggered a memory of what you said once. Why are you taking this so far?See: ashs post.The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same. I'd guess he copy and pasted it.Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?
I have no idea if I said that or not and don't see why it is relevant here....
I copied the last statement above and put it at the top so that people wouldn't have to read through the slog before getting to the bottom and realizing I would be writing up a more concise post later... cause that would be annoying.
Are you asking if being considerate to others is scummy? Cause the answer I hope would be no.
No. Answer my question. Is being considerate to others scummy? I asked you. I didn't ask ash.
No, it isnt. Ash pointed something out, which triggered a memory of what you said once. Why are you taking this so far?
Everyone buys the partner excuse for Ichimaru (the idea that his partner would have warned him not to be so scumny) ? I could see a partner encouraging him to continue to act this way, fully expecting us to raise this very argument.This sounds like WIFOM to me. I mean, either way, there's a scum/town argument for me if that's the way you want to spin it. Also, the whole "since this other lynch isn't going through (although I think you're giving up too soon) , I'm just gonna vote x without much reason" doesn't sound right to me. I'd like to hear more than 1 sentence explaining your vote.
In fact, no one seems to care about the chairs situation, so vote: Ichimaru
@yuma, it's this. I know I also voted for chairs, but the reasoning is all wrong to me.Ok. I am going to do something crazy.This post gives me all the wrong feelings. Not the vote, cause I think the vote is fine. The entire post. Like, "Yeah he could be a PR but guess what--we have could have 7!" just rubs me all the wrong ways. vote: e to have it somewhere before faust comes.
vote: chairs
Yes, I get that he could be a PR. I get that. I saw it as soon as Voltaire mentioned the secret case before he had to explain it to the whole world
But
he could also be scum. (or the SK)
JK9++ could have up to 7(!) town PRs. that is a lot. Chairs could also be our only PR. Or he could be one of many. We could have a SK. We might not. Which is why JK9++ is impossible to "solve" D1. Which will make it super fun later on, but right now is kind of annoying since we don't know anything.
However, I am looking at viable lynches and who we will actually learn something about going into D2. We will learn stuff about chairs. I also think we have the votes to pull it off.
I believe mail-mi, Ashersky, Lekkit, Eevee, myself will all vote chairs. The interesting thing is that this basically is almost all of everyone's scum reads (except liopoil). So this is also intriguing if he does flip scum. Now, if he flips town PR we will all feel bad and have nice little accusations thrown at us.
But the point is, we can learn more from a chairs lynch than any other lynch right now.
Oh wait, deadline is 2:20, which is 12:20, which means I won't be on until then. Well, vote: liopoil because he's more viable.
I've also been reading, but I don't really have anything to say.That is very helpful thing to do as a
So, do people agree with me that chairs should claim ? The main reason we usually don't want people to claim out of the blue is that they might be NKed, but scum probably knows that chairs is a PR already, so why not make him claim and see what his N1 action was ? It gives us more info about the setup (although it does give info to scum too, possibly), and if he's lying scum his result might get him in trouble. I'm pretty sure his survival means he'd get run up to L-1 anyway (I'd certainly vote for him), so I think we might as well do it now.this.
Seeing scumteams already Robz ? That would be a lot of partners for ash. I still don't underqtand how this behavior would be particularly scummy.I agree with Robz (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg330161#msg330161) that this statement seems scummy to me. "let's give up on chairs to move to a more popular lynch target" says "all I want to do is lynch people because I am scum."
Everyone buys the partner excuse for Ichimaru (the idea that his parrner would have warned him not to be so scumny) ? I could see a partner encouraging him to continue to act this way, fully expecting us to raise this very argument.
In fact, no one seems to care about the chairs situation, so vote: Ichimaru
So, do people agree with me that chairs should claim ? The main reason we usually don't want people to claim out of the blue is that they might be NKed, but scum probably knows that chairs is a PR already, so why not make him claim and see what his N1 action was ? It gives us more info about the setup (although it does give info to scum too, possibly), and if he's lying scum his result might get him in trouble. I'm pretty sure his survival means he'd get run up to L-1 anyway (I'd certainly vote for him), so I think we might as well do it now.this.
chairs does have something to talk about
I wasn't necessarily saying I think he should claim. I was more commenting on the fact that he says he has nothing to say. He can at least respond as to whether he thinks he should/should not do this.So, do people agree with me that chairs should claim ? The main reason we usually don't want people to claim out of the blue is that they might be NKed, but scum probably knows that chairs is a PR already, so why not make him claim and see what his N1 action was ? It gives us more info about the setup (although it does give info to scum too, possibly), and if he's lying scum his result might get him in trouble. I'm pretty sure his survival means he'd get run up to L-1 anyway (I'd certainly vote for him), so I think we might as well do it now.this.
chairs does have something to talk about
chairs only has one vote. I don't think he should claim unless we start thinking we should in fact lynch him and people start to vote him, but right now I don't know if anyone is going to vote unless they know why they should vote... so like I asked, could you (since you are the lone vote on chairs) reassemble why we should consider lynching him, or at least link to places where this has been talked about previously so people can refresh on this?
Please see my most recent statement. "no face officers" are literally just "generic officer A" - people without a special face - or at least that's my impression of the data provided to us. I believe that claiming names outs our PRs, albeit with the potential that we can WIFOM with scum regarding whether they claim No Face or a named officer.
-----------------------
My concern is that I don't think the lynch pool will be sufficiently small, and we have to WIFOM whether scum will claim VT (by claiming No Face) or PR (by providing a name).
Ok then. I think the best odds of finding scum right now is chairs. Of course scum might have been framing him by going PR-hunting, but it's not like Eevee was a surefire PR or anything, he had expressed disliking day 1s before and could easily have been a VT. He also seemed scummy to a lot of people, so by killing him, mafia also lost a potential mislynch if he was VT. This leads me to think that the probability of chairs being scum is much higher than the probability of a scumteam trying to frame him.
vote: chairs
As someone who is 100% sure I'm town, I can only assume that scum believe one of the following:
1) I will use my PR poorly/my PR is weak and they needn't bother killing me.
2) I will be mislynched today because of their kill choice last night, ensuring both a kill and another mislynch.
3) I'm not actually a PR, just a VT trying to gambit my way into looking PR-ish.
Obviously I know whether or not I'm really a PR, and I know I'm town. If I'm a PR, and I had anything beneficial related to my PR to provide to town, clearly I would do so.
I am going to vote: Teproc. And no, this is not OMGUS. He hasn't really received any suspicion, yet I don't see what he has done to deserve this. Has he received a single vote the entire game? He brought some early accusations against Ash, but for the most part, I just think he's done a really good job of doing some towny-appearing things, while remaining mostly uninvolved.
I am going to vote: Teproc. And no, this is not OMGUS. He hasn't really received any suspicion, yet I don't see what he has done to deserve this. Has he received a single vote the entire game? He brought some early accusations against Ash, but for the most part, I just think he's done a really good job of doing some towny-appearing things, while remaining mostly uninvolved.
I think vote: Ichimaru. You say this isn't OMGUS, but don't give a reason for why it isn't except that he hasn't received any suspicion and done some towny things. This looks like OMGUS attempted at being disguised as something else, but really, I think it is just OMGUS something newbie scum can and has done in the past.
Ok more concise post:is number 1 supposed to be a reason to suspect me? I mean, it's not like faust claimed to protect me... faust was town! or is it 'There was support for the lio mislynch before, why can't we mislynch him now?' Being almost-lynched isn't suspicious, especially because of faust's claim.
1. liopoil was the largest wagon at the time that faust claimed and the thread turned into chaos
2. after that point he received very few votes compared to others who were in that category of possibly being lynched (specifically sure 2.7, eevee and mail-mi)
3. the main points against liopoil from day1 are lurking and responding passively to suspicion (I maintain that liopoil responds more aggressively as scum) and that it is compelling that his lynch was not brought up as a possibility against him after faust claimed
4. points I would add are his case against 2.7 today (I tend to find arguments that so and so talked about why the NK died to be from scum, but this isn't always true. I did it as town in GoT against Voltaire when we were both town for example), general lurky behavior today (and I don't just mean during his VLA, rather that he has posted but really only participated in a dialogue with ashersky and hasn't done much else)
yuma, that's L-1This is the "above quote" I was referring to.
Unvote
I am going to vote: Teproc. And no, this is not OMGUS. He hasn't really received any suspicion, yet I don't see what he has done to deserve this. Has he received a single vote the entire game? He brought some early accusations against Ash, but for the most part, I just think he's done a really good job of doing some towny-appearing things, while remaining mostly uninvolved.
I think vote: Ichimaru. You say this isn't OMGUS, but don't give a reason for why it isn't except that he hasn't received any suspicion and done some towny things. This looks like OMGUS attempted at being disguised as something else, but really, I think it is just OMGUS something newbie scum can and has done in the past.
You must have missed my point that I don't believe that Teproc has contributed much (that he hasn't really been that involved). He has posted, yet he is playing things safe to a point that I find scummy. Also, I repeat, has Teproc done anything to deserve this? No one should be above suspicion, so why hasn't anyone else been suspicious of him? I believe this to be a legitimate reason for voting someone, but perhaps this logic doesn't work. It at least makes sense to me.
Also, another non-sarcastic question, how is OMGUS scummy? Is it just because it's read as a poor reason to vote for someone, saving scum from actually having to make a case, or possibly have accountability for their vote?
Ashersky: Still my preference, I've said repeatedly that I think having a ridiculous read on faust was his scum strategy that backfired after faust committed game suicide on Day 1. The fact that practically no one else likes this case as much as I do makes me especially confident in it. But, you know, this is the sort of thing town ash COULD have done, unfortunately.
Liopoil: I know what the case is now. Basically, it's that he's pretty much a lurker until called out, and then he actually does work sort of hard to not be a lurkers (harder than, say, Eevee in this game for example). I guess that's fairly scummy. Like ash, it could just be the case that this is how lio just is.
Ok more concise post:is number 1 supposed to be a reason to suspect me? I mean, it's not like faust claimed to protect me... faust was town! or is it 'There was support for the lio mislynch before, why can't we mislynch him now?' Being almost-lynched isn't suspicious, especially because of faust's claim.
1. liopoil was the largest wagon at the time that faust claimed and the thread turned into chaos
2. after that point he received very few votes compared to others who were in that category of possibly being lynched (specifically sure 2.7, eevee and mail-mi)
3. the main points against liopoil from day1 are lurking and responding passively to suspicion (I maintain that liopoil responds more aggressively as scum) and that it is compelling that his lynch was not brought up as a possibility against him after faust claimed
4. points I would add are his case against 2.7 today (I tend to find arguments that so and so talked about why the NK died to be from scum, but this isn't always true. I did it as town in GoT against Voltaire when we were both town for example), general lurky behavior today (and I don't just mean during his VLA, rather that he has posted but really only participated in a dialogue with ashersky and hasn't done much else)
#2: ...because my scumbuddies did all that voting? I would think my hypothetical scumbuddies would vote for faust, not e or mail-mi or eevee after faust's claim. And I don't remember those wagons growing much, I remember primarily everyone moving to faust, some from my wagon, some from others.
#3: a couple things here..... first off, would you prefer I always react aggresively to cases on me as town? because I don't think doing that is effective, except that maybe it would convince yuma because it would be fufilling my meta. But it isn't a meta I really want to continue... because people don't respond positively to aggression. I think I am more likely to avoid being mislynched via a more a reserved response. In previous games as town the cases on me have been really frustrating and have the frustration leaks out. And in previous games as scum I've had more of a motive to avoid the lynch, and also wasn't frustrated because the case was correct. This game, the points against me haven't been just blatantly false like I think they have been before, and so I am not particularly frustrated. If I were to react as I have in prior town games this game, then it would be fake, and being town, I am not going to fake emotions.
#4: well I haven't found that at all, and you said yourself that it isn't always accurate. Seems like this is a point you just added on because why not. Prior to my V/LA I do not think that I was particularly lurky on D2.
Vote count please
The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same. I'd guess he copy and pasted it.
Ashersky: Still my preference, I've said repeatedly that I think having a ridiculous read on faust was his scum strategy that backfired after faust committed game suicide on Day 1. The fact that practically no one else likes this case as much as I do makes me especially confident in it. But, you know, this is the sort of thing town ash COULD have done, unfortunately.
Liopoil: I know what the case is now. Basically, it's that he's pretty much a lurker until called out, and then he actually does work sort of hard to not be a lurkers (harder than, say, Eevee in this game for example). I guess that's fairly scummy. Like ash, it could just be the case that this is how lio just is.
I find both of these suspicious. Both are disclaimed at the end saying that it might be town!ash or town!lio. ash first:
I agree with the case on ashersky, and I don't think I'm voting for him. I should be. Vote: Ashersky. anyway, the bit that makes me suspicious of robz is that he says it could be town!ash. town!robz is always fairly sure that this is town ash when he does the town ash thing. I can pull quotes from multiple games if necessary. Should ash flip town, I think it really makes robz suspicious.
I really find it weird that robz isn't totally sold on the reason for suspecting me like he was before. Reads to me like it was an attempt to get me mislynched yesterday, but today there's more viable mislynches like ashersky. I remember he sort of did that in the B2B game that got reset, so when robz was scum and I was still town.
So I'm thinking that most likely one of robz and ashersky is scum, but ashersky is still more likely.
Mail-mi: Someone wants to lynch mail-mi, I think? Voltaire, yes? Maybe yuma? Do you still? Why?
I am going to vote: Teproc. And no, this is not OMGUS. He hasn't really received any suspicion, yet I don't see what he has done to deserve this. Has he received a single vote the entire game? He brought some early accusations against Ash, but for the most part, I just think he's done a really good job of doing some towny-appearing things, while remaining mostly uninvolved.
I think vote: Ichimaru. You say this isn't OMGUS, but don't give a reason for why it isn't except that he hasn't received any suspicion and done some towny things. This looks like OMGUS attempted at being disguised as something else, but really, I think it is just OMGUS something newbie scum can and has done in the past.
You must have missed my point that I don't believe that Teproc has contributed much (that he hasn't really been that involved). He has posted, yet he is playing things safe to a point that I find scummy. Also, I repeat, has Teproc done anything to deserve this? No one should be above suspicion, so why hasn't anyone else been suspicious of him? I believe this to be a legitimate reason for voting someone, but perhaps this logic doesn't work. It at least makes sense to me.
I'm still not sold on a chairs or Ashersky lynch as of now, (in particular I believe that chairs has been legitimately busy).
I am currently suspicious of those involved in the Ash lynch--which IMO ramped up way to quickly. I have a town read on Liopoil for the above quote.
Also, another non-sarcastic question, how is OMGUS scummy? Is it just because it's read as a poor reason to vote for someone, saving scum from actually having to make a case, or possibly have accountability for their vote?
Teproc: He actually reads pretty scummy to me. Reasons at the end of this post.Explain to me how this is a good case to bring against someone? He has been active, hasn't drawn any suspicion, therefore Teproc is scum.
I am going to vote: Teproc. And no, this is not OMGUS. He hasn't really received any suspicion, yet I don't see what he has done to deserve this. Has he received a single vote the entire game? He brought some early accusations against Ash, but for the most part, I just think he's done a really good job of doing some towny-appearing things, while remaining mostly uninvolved.
I am going to vote: Teproc. And no, this is not OMGUS. He hasn't really received any suspicion, yet I don't see what he has done to deserve this. Has he received a single vote the entire game? He brought some early accusations against Ash, but for the most part, I just think he's done a really good job of doing some towny-appearing things, while remaining mostly uninvolved.
I think vote: Ichimaru. You say this isn't OMGUS, but don't give a reason for why it isn't except that he hasn't received any suspicion and done some towny things. This looks like OMGUS attempted at being disguised as something else, but really, I think it is just OMGUS something newbie scum can and has done in the past.
You must have missed my point that I don't believe that Teproc has contributed much (that he hasn't really been that involved). He has posted, yet he is playing things safe to a point that I find scummy. Also, I repeat, has Teproc done anything to deserve this? No one should be above suspicion, so why hasn't anyone else been suspicious of him? I believe this to be a legitimate reason for voting someone, but perhaps this logic doesn't work. It at least makes sense to me.
Ok... but you need to prove this if it is actually true. Right now you are just saying it without backing it up. You say he is doing things that look to be towny. Why aren't they just towny things? What makes them change from "towny" to "the appearance of towny?"
Sure, no one is above suspicion and maybe Teproc deserves some scrutiny but you are just saying things w/o going back to check as far as I can tell. Doing so--and then voting!--without going back to check and make sure your remembering is correct in conjunction with the OMGUS mention does make it look like it is more of a cover for a OMGUS vote and hence why I think it is scummy of you.
Also, another non-sarcastic question, how is OMGUS scummy? Is it just because it's read as a poor reason to vote for someone, saving scum from actually having to make a case, or possibly have accountability for their vote?
OMGUS is--or can be--scummy because it is twofold. One it discredits the case that is on you (the case on me is bad because he is scum!) and second moves the focus away from you toward him (don't look at me, look at him!)
It isn't always scummy, but it certainly can be used. I think everyone that has played as scum has used it before, especially as sometimes it obtains the reputation of being so scummy, scum would never do it, but scum does.
OMGUS is not scummy. We call it that, but in my opinion town OMGUSs more than scum.
How do you specifically search for posts a single player has made? Because when I search Teproc in this this thread, it only brings up the posts where other players mentioned his name--not posts he made himself.I view all the pages, then ctrl+f and search "goko username: teproc" or some variation of that. Other people might do it differently but that is what I do.
Teproc: He actually reads pretty scummy to me. Reasons at the end of this post.Explain to me how this is a good case to bring against someone? He has been active, hasn't drawn any suspicion, therefore Teproc is scum.
I am going to vote: Teproc. And no, this is not OMGUS. He hasn't really received any suspicion, yet I don't see what he has done to deserve this. Has he received a single vote the entire game? He brought some early accusations against Ash, but for the most part, I just think he's done a really good job of doing some towny-appearing things, while remaining mostly uninvolved.
He has posted, yet he is playing things safe to a point that I find scummy. Also, I repeat, has Teproc done anything to deserve this? No one should be above suspicion, so why hasn't anyone else been suspicious of him? I believe this to be a legitimate reason for voting someone, but perhaps this logic doesn't work. It at least makes sense to me.
Ashersky: Still my preference, I've said repeatedly that I think having a ridiculous read on faust was his scum strategy that backfired after faust committed game suicide on Day 1. The fact that practically no one else likes this case as much as I do makes me especially confident in it. But, you know, this is the sort of thing town ash COULD have done, unfortunately.
Liopoil: I know what the case is now. Basically, it's that he's pretty much a lurker until called out, and then he actually does work sort of hard to not be a lurkers (harder than, say, Eevee in this game for example). I guess that's fairly scummy. Like ash, it could just be the case that this is how lio just is.
I find both of these suspicious. Both are disclaimed at the end saying that it might be town!ash or town!lio. ash first:
I agree with the case on ashersky, and I don't think I'm voting for him. I should be. Vote: Ashersky. anyway, the bit that makes me suspicious of robz is that he says it could be town!ash. town!robz is always fairly sure that this is town ash when he does the town ash thing. I can pull quotes from multiple games if necessary. Should ash flip town, I think it really makes robz suspicious.
I really find it weird that robz isn't totally sold on the reason for suspecting me like he was before. Reads to me like it was an attempt to get me mislynched yesterday, but today there's more viable mislynches like ashersky. I remember he sort of did that in the B2B game that got reset, so when robz was scum and I was still town.
So I'm thinking that most likely one of robz and ashersky is scum, but ashersky is still more likely.
In fact, Robz? Here is some stuff on him- Opens up the liopoil case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326230#msg326230) that "scum!lio struggles early but plays better late." Gets a bunch of sheep. He originally gives slight credence (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326245#msg326245) to my Faust case, but then is turned off the case by Ashersky (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326952#msg326952). He throws out his vote for sale here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327093#msg327093) saying he is concerned about a bad D1. Jumps to Lekkit (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327098#msg327098) for a lurker lynch temporarily before realizing Lekkit wasn't really lurking just posting less frequently but still with content, then moves to Eevee as his lurker lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327107#msg327107) after I point out that Eevee is more of a lurker. Throws his vote out for sale again (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327368#msg327368). Has the whole episode of "wait no one post info about the setup because it might help scum!faust with a fakeclaim." (starting here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327447#msg327447)) He then jumps onto the little wagon against me for a bit here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327616#msg327616) before Faust reveals that he was lying about his fakeclaim. Robz then ends the day with his vote on me, after unvoting Faust to avoid ending the day before some people could comment. I recognize his "D1s are famously lacksadaisical" (to quote Ash from BM14 since he put it so nicely in the role PM) but putting his vote up for sale? twice? His D2 has not been great but no one has really stood out too much as being amazing, and I think he can probably (safely) trust that his meta will carry him through and avoid a lynch.
Hmmm. This is not great for me, because I don't think faust is scum and I really don't think ash is scum.
I looked at the setup recently, and if I remember correctly, Vengeful has 50% chance to happen if one K is rolled, and there will always be at least one Vengeful if more than one K is rolled.
Vengeful is probably the go to scum fakeclaim but... I mean, it's a pretty likely role to exist, and I do think his timing makes sense here. I wouldn't have claimed at that point myself, but it makes sense to help narrow the lynch down.
Basically, I think his claim doesn't change anything to his likelihood of being town/scum. But I don't want to lynch him because I believe ash to be town, and I'm not confident either way as to faust's alignment.
What makes me scummy ?
You're against claiming, but I felt your reasoning was kind of forced given we have THE POWER OF THE INTERNET.
That's some interesting logic. I mean, what is town supposed to do in this situation, just say nothing ? I guess it would be more accurate to say that you find e townier than me in that argument, more than me being scummier ? Since what you're saying is that scum wouldn't hold a "nonsensical" position, not really that town wouldn't try to "make sense".This post is confusing (only to me?)
Basically I see what you're saying, but it seems to me that your logic should be giving you a town read on e rather than a scum read on me.
And I still disagree with it. People make mistakes/are wrong all the time, scum or town. And e was actually right about names not giving away PRs.
My problem is not your case per se. It's day 1, everyone's case is going to be weak. My problem is that you're trying to paint it as more than it is in order to look like a good active townie scumhunter.More WIFOM
Asking everyone to give their opinion about faust is leading town, which is scummy. Of course you could be town and just trying to get the game active. Sure. I just don't think you are.
To Ichimaru : yes this is all WIFOM, but everything is basically. Scumslips are the only ones, and those have proven to be a very ineffective way to catch scum (they're generally made by town). I think "WIFOM" is a concept that scum loves to use because it makes everyone unsure and indecisive.Everything is WIFOM? Really? I mean that's not really a statement I can verify or refute, given my inexperience, but this strikes me as odd.
I'm back! Replying as I catch up.The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same. I'd guess he copy and pasted it.
This is scum!ash. Throwing crap at literally every player, trying to find something that sticks.
I'm back! Replying as I catch up.The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same. I'd guess he copy and pasted it.
This is scum!ash. Throwing crap at literally every player, trying to find something that sticks.
Way to respond to the very detail case against you. Meanwhile, you just keep saying "this is scum!ash" over and over like that makes it true. You have zilch as far as a case against me.
Case on Voltaire:
ash and voltaire, are you both dead-set on voting for each other or are you considering other options?
2.7, you have Robz's "nobody say anything about the setup !" moment listed in the scummy things he's done. I actually think it's a pretty townie thing to do, so I'm interested in your reasoning here.
2.7, you have Robz's "nobody say anything about the setup !" moment listed in the scummy things he's done. I actually think it's a pretty townie thing to do, so I'm interested in your reasoning here.
Basically scum!robz knows that Faust is town. So scum!robz has no reason to disbelieve the claim at all. However, it is within the realm of possibility that Faust would either misremember is PM or put out some sort of false information in his response which "catches" town!faust. All the while Robz gets town points with a slim chance that Faust will misstep and give an easy lynch. As it is, the whole claim was a misstep by Faust, but that is a different matter. So I wouldn't say it is a "towny" thing to do, but it does not mean it is scummy either. My scum read on Robz is not one big moment where I went "Aha! Robz is scum" but more of a gradual uneasiness as I reread all his posts.
2.7, you have Robz's "nobody say anything about the setup !" moment listed in the scummy things he's done. I actually think it's a pretty townie thing to do, so I'm interested in your reasoning here.
Basically scum!robz knows that Faust is town. So scum!robz has no reason to disbelieve the claim at all.
ash and voltaire, are you both dead-set on voting for each other or are you considering other options?
2.7, you have Robz's "nobody say anything about the setup !" moment listed in the scummy things he's done. I actually think it's a pretty townie thing to do, so I'm interested in your reasoning here.
Basically scum!robz knows that Faust is town. So scum!robz has no reason to disbelieve the claim at all.
I said this about scum!Voltaire.
2.7, you have Robz's "nobody say anything about the setup !" moment listed in the scummy things he's done. I actually think it's a pretty townie thing to do, so I'm interested in your reasoning here.
Basically scum!robz knows that Faust is town. So scum!robz has no reason to disbelieve the claim at all.
I said this about scum!Voltaire.
Makes no sense for him either . Or rather, it's just a tautology and you could say his about anyone else as well.
2.7, you have Robz's "nobody say anything about the setup !" moment listed in the scummy things he's done. I actually think it's a pretty townie thing to do, so I'm interested in your reasoning here.
Basically scum!robz knows that Faust is town. So scum!robz has no reason to disbelieve the claim at all.
I said this about scum!Voltaire.
Makes no sense for him either . Or rather, it's just a tautology and you could say his about anyone else as well.
That's unfair, I think.
It is categorically true that scum knows (or thinks it knows) who is scum and who isn't, and so is more likely to believe a town claim than not.
Whether they show that in thread or not is debatable. They may disbelieve a town claim to try to lynch them, for example. But it is fair to state that "I think Voltaire is scum, so his reaction to Faust's claim matches up with that."
But it's B before A with you and 2.7 here. "I think Robz/Volt is scum, and their reaction to the faust claim fits this no matter what that reaction was."
But it's B before A with you and 2.7 here. "I think Robz/Volt is scum, and their reaction to the faust claim fits this no matter what that reaction was."
That's true. So?
I've always gotten a read/feel on someone, then checked their posts to see if it's right or wrong.
Otherwise, I think lynching Voltaire is the best move for today. I would consider Robz, Ichi, or Lekkit if needed.
for reference: day1 post count (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg328617#msg328617)which is a point against him if it comes to it.
(quotation is how many from day1, approximately)
1. Voltaire - 183 (160) = 23
2. Robz888 - 140 (115) = 25
3. mail-mi - 60 (51) = 9
4. Chairs - 40 (35) = 5
5. Ashersky - 148 (109) = 39
6. Yuma - 113 (78) = 35
7. Ichimaru Gin 67 (47) = 20
8. Lekkit - 41 (32) = 9
9. Liopoil - 85 (59) = 26
10. Teproc - 118 (107) = 11
11. 2.7 - 169 (149) = 20
Notable is mail-mi, chairs and lekkit all of whom I would kinda expect to be on the lower ends of things, the surprise I think is Teproc who after being quite high Day1 has dropped off dramatically.
which is a point against him if it comes to it.
Interesting post by Ichimaru. I do hedge a lot, that's who I am, I'm never sure of anything. I know it's ont good for the game, and I do try to appear more certain than I am (for example, I am certain that pretty much every argument that has been done in the history of mafia can be reduced to WIFOM, because you're never sure scum isn't thinking three steps ahead of you), but I'm apparently failing at that.
That post was very convincing even though it was wrong. Could he have done that as scum ? Maybe. But I don't think so. Unvote
2.7, you have Robz's "nobody say anything about the setup !" moment listed in the scummy things he's done. I actually think it's a pretty townie thing to do, so I'm interested in your reasoning here.
which is a point against him if it comes to it.
hey look a mail-mi! I would agree with you here...
I was also hoping to hear from chairs tonight. He had hoped that he would have some free time to post.
PS reminder: I am about to start up my on week at work, so no morning, afternoon or late night posting from me.
And I think I am going to unvote. And actually vote for the person who the player I was just voting for is voting for vote: teproc.
Ichimaru's case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg330561#msg330561) has some points that are ok and some that aren't, but what struck me was how Teproc responded:Interesting post by Ichimaru. I do hedge a lot, that's who I am, I'm never sure of anything. I know it's ont good for the game, and I do try to appear more certain than I am (for example, I am certain that pretty much every argument that has been done in the history of mafia can be reduced to WIFOM, because you're never sure scum isn't thinking three steps ahead of you), but I'm apparently failing at that.
That post was very convincing even though it was wrong. Could he have done that as scum ? Maybe. But I don't think so. Unvote
2.7, you have Robz's "nobody say anything about the setup !" moment listed in the scummy things he's done. I actually think it's a pretty townie thing to do, so I'm interested in your reasoning here.
It isn't the same as mail-mi's classic "this is a good case on me" when he was scum in whatever game that was, but it is a cousin of sorts as Teproc basically says that Ichimaru has some valid points. Add to it a subtle hint of buddying by unvoting and ultimately getting a read of town from it...
hey look a mail-mi!
See yuma, I'm not a lurker D2, I have the third most posts, V/LA and all (which ends today, but realistically won't really end until the start of tomorrow.) also, you said that the person you just unvoted (me) is voting for who you just voted (teproc) which isn't true.
See yuma, I'm not a lurker D2, I have the third most posts, V/LA and all (which ends today, but realistically won't really end until the start of tomorrow.) also, you said that the person you just unvoted (me) is voting for who you just voted (teproc) which isn't true.
I think he means Ichimaru, who he was indeed voting for prior to this.
As for Teproc... that's not really a lynch I would be at all excited for.
That leaves... Teproc (didn't like him defending ash, don't remember much else), Lekkit (can't remember a thing about him), and Voltaire (is playing me very well if he's scum, which is probably possible and I should try to think about, but I can't help see him as town for now).
Otherwise, I think lynching Voltaire is the best move for today. I would consider Robz, Ichi, or Lekkit if needed.
And see, I hate all of these lynches and think some of them are the "easy" mislynches, so I feel even better about this.
I've been pretty busy with work, not sleeping and doing other stuff (mostly Hearthstone) during what little spare time I've had. I have read everything, though, but not really processed it. I'm doing a gaming marathon today/tomorrow and won't be spending much time here, but I hope I can get going on monday.
For once, I actually have a town read on Robz. So no.
Eh, he's null for me. If it is obvious that it will be him, then sure I'll vote.Is that in order of most wanting to lynch first?
My preference:
e
teproc
Robz
volt
ichi
ash
yesEh, he's null for me. If it is obvious that it will be him, then sure I'll vote.Is that in order of most wanting to lynch first?
My preference:
e
teproc
Robz
volt
ichi
ash
Ok. So what, 2 days til the deadline?
I'm happy with my vote on Teproc for right now, although I found his response interesting.
I am willing to vote Ash if we haven't really come to a conclusion and we're really close to the deadline.
The other ones: Voltaire, Robz, chairs? not liking as much.
I am also willing to vote Lekkit, cause if we're going to lynch a lurker, I think it should be him.
Ichimaru Gin. very scummy in all. Opportunistic voting, only following other people's cases and not contributing much. Could possibly be due to him being new.
chairs. The fact that he didn't die tonight means basically nothing. But the fact that he hasn't really done anything at all makes him pretty suspicious in my opinion.
ashersky. Does crazy stuff. I tend to lean scummy on him by default. No exception here, but aside from that, I can't really make sense of ash's play at all. Playing against your wincon (selfvoting) is never good, though.
Voltaire. I was pretty suspicious of him earlier, especially since he disappeared at the end of the day and then reappeared closer to the deadline. I've cooled down somewhat here. Especially since a lot of other players seems to think he's towny. And that many players having an expressed town read on someone might mean that I'm wrong.
This whole post just rings false to me... It is like the island of easy mislynches (assuming of course that these three are mislynches, which I guess is something of a stretch) except for Voltaire where Lekkit is moving a a scumread to a townread based solely off fitting in with the general perception seems scummy to me.
See yuma, I'm not a lurker D2, I have the third most posts, V/LA and all (which ends today, but realistically won't really end until the start of tomorrow.) also, you said that the person you just unvoted (me) is voting for who you just voted (teproc) which isn't true.
I think you have been lurky day2--VLA aside--not in terms of post count but rather that you really only had a back and forth with ash that really didn't require you to post anything other than bickering back and forth. You aren't the only player that has lurker or lacked content day2, but this isn't the sole reason I was voting you.
in that case, what is the point of your post counts?See yuma, I'm not a lurker D2, I have the third most posts, V/LA and all (which ends today, but realistically won't really end until the start of tomorrow.) also, you said that the person you just unvoted (me) is voting for who you just voted (teproc) which isn't true.
As robz said I unvoted Ichimaru not you. This and the fact that you are misrepresenting what I am saying about your lurking shows that you aren't reading very closely...
Let me again (I think this is the third or fourth time I have said this... in fact I'll pull up a quote)I think you have been lurky day2--VLA aside--not in terms of post count but rather that you really only had a back and forth with ash that really didn't require you to post anything other than bickering back and forth. You aren't the only player that has lurker or lacked content day2, but this isn't the sole reason I was voting you.
Quantity isn't important. Content is. I challenge you to show me where you have posted content aside from your argument with ashersky day2 (if you can call that content) and your defense of yourself
in that case, what is the point of your post counts?
Ok. So what, 2 days til the deadline?
I'm happy with my vote on Teproc for right now, although I found his response interesting.
I am willing to vote Ash if we haven't really come to a conclusion and we're really close to the deadline.
The other ones: Voltaire, Robz, chairs? not liking as much.
I am also willing to vote Lekkit, cause if we're going to lynch a lurker, I think it should be him.
How do you mean interesting? Like interesting as in a townie way or interesting in a scummy way? Interesting is a very ambiguous word in this game.
In fact vote: lekkit He has had 2 posts this week and both were him saying he wasn't going to be around much. Man, this is unacceptable!
Add in that I found this post scummy back in the day (I had forgotten he had posted it until I went back to see the last time Lekkit had a post with content):[/quote]Ichimaru Gin. very scummy in all. Opportunistic voting, only following other people's cases and not contributing much. Could possibly be due to him being new.
chairs. The fact that he didn't die tonight means basically nothing. But the fact that he hasn't really done anything at all makes him pretty suspicious in my opinion.
ashersky. Does crazy stuff. I tend to lean scummy on him by default. No exception here, but aside from that, I can't really make sense of ash's play at all. Playing against your wincon (selfvoting) is never good, though.
Voltaire. I was pretty suspicious of him earlier, especially since he disappeared at the end of the day and then reappeared closer to the deadline. I've cooled down somewhat here. Especially since a lot of other players seems to think he's towny. And that many players having an expressed town read on someone might mean that I'm wrong.
This whole post just rings false to me... It is like the island of easy mislynches (assuming of course that these three are mislynches, which I guess is something of a stretch) except for Voltaire where Lekkit is moving a a scumread to a townread based solely off fitting in with the general perception seems scummy to me.
This was his last real post of the game. It was posted on December 23rd. I said it was scummy and he hans't responded to it or anything else for the rest of the day. Keep in mind that Lekkit is very capable of lurking as scum. He was lynched for it in Buffy and lurked to an extent in Major Arcana 2 as well.
I'll go back to Teproc or maybe Robz--it looks like there isn't any support for a lio lynch for some reason???--and am certainly willing to consider other options. I think chairs and ash are probably the two I wouldn't lynch at this juncture.
Vote Count ash2.5
ashersky (3): Robz, Voltaire, Liopoil
Robz888 (1): 2.7...
Ichimaru Gin (1): Lekkit
Voltaire (1): ashersky
Teproc (3): Ichimaru Gin, chairs, mail-mi
Lekkit (1): yuma
Not Voting (1): teproc
Deadline: Thursday, January 2nd at 6 pm. To account for holidays
This is not the first time in this game where people tell me that I haven't responded to stuff they've said. Seriously, what do you want me to say? "Nope, I don't think this is scummy. I think you're wrong."? Allright, I'll give it a try:
They might be mislynches, but I still think they are the scummiest around. And the fact that they might be mislynches is not going to stop me from finding them scummy or make me want to not vote for them. It's not how the game works. "You are scummy, but I can't be 100% sure that you're not town, so I'll not lynch you.". Also, I don't agree with you that it is scummy to find the scummiest players scummy. Also, why should we not listen to the other players abou their opinions on the other players? I'm not that confident that I'm the only one that can read people here and that I'm the best at it. I don't think changing one's opinion about a player due to other players' thoughs is very scummy.
I was also lynched for lurking in one of Grujahs Pirate games (I think it was number 2), where I was town. I don't really think that "Lekkit lurks as scum" is a good argument. On the other hand, I don't think that "Lekkit always lurk" is a good defence either. But it is kind of true. I'm not as active as most members here.I'll go back to Teproc or maybe Robz--it looks like there isn't any support for a lio lynch for some reason???--and am certainly willing to consider other options. I think chairs and ash are probably the two I wouldn't lynch at this juncture.
Why not chairs? You're currently voting me for not being here. Why not chairs?
yuma, any plans to move your vote? Or is a Lekkit lynch still viable.
He's in my second set of possible scum, so I could vote for him if it's going to work out.
I'm still at Volt > Robz >>> Lekkit = Ichimaru
So in short I think Teproc is scummy becauseseems to me like all of these boil down to him not having solid reads D1, and him changing his mind. Slight oversimplification, but not by much. I have no problem with teproc not being terribly confident that people are scum, and changing your mind is a good thing... we don't want to discourage that.
1. He flipped back and forth about Ash D1, a lot. And generally had a lot of light reads on people which he shifted around, often contradicting each other. I know that there's not a lot of information D1, but such unaccountable behavior reads scum to me. And as I have already mentioned, he avoided suspicion for this.
2. I read boldness and certainty (even over-certainty) as town. Teproc's general lack of conviction on most of his votes reads scum to me. Although Ash is getting flak for his early "100%" read on Faust, I think extreme statements elicit extreme responses--thereby making it harder for scum to hide in ambiguity--something I believe Teproc to be doing.
3. Everything is WIFOM? Well it's pretty obvious that a lot of his cases do follow this. e.g. this behavior could be interpreted as town or scum trying to get town cred, but for really no reason at all, I believe the latter.
Still, I think this statement is just an excuse/cover-up for poor scumhunting on Teproc's part. WIFOM is basically an argument out of thin air--given the semblance of conviction through bias.
vote: teproc.what do you expect him to do, say he wasn't changing his mind?
Ichimaru's case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg330561#msg330561) has some points that are ok and some that aren't, but what struck me was how Teproc responded:Interesting post by Ichimaru. I do hedge a lot, that's who I am, I'm never sure of anything. I know it's ont good for the game, and I do try to appear more certain than I am (for example, I am certain that pretty much every argument that has been done in the history of mafia can be reduced to WIFOM, because you're never sure scum isn't thinking three steps ahead of you), but I'm apparently failing at that.
That post was very convincing even though it was wrong. Could he have done that as scum ? Maybe. But I don't think so. Unvote
It isn't the same as mail-mi's classic "this is a good case on me" when he was scum in whatever game that was, but it is a cousin of sorts as Teproc basically says that Ichimaru has some valid points. Add to it a subtle hint of buddying by unvoting and ultimately getting a read of town from it...
I don't really like either the ichimaru or lekkit lynches. lekkit feels like the archetype mislynch in toy story - heavy lurking but doesn't indicate alignment. In regard to ichimaru, we've had many new players over the games who have emphasized their newbieness and also have done some of the classic scummy things people are talking about. again, I'm not seeing how it indicates alignment.
vote: teproc.what do you expect him to do, say he wasn't changing his mind?
Ichimaru's case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg330561#msg330561) has some points that are ok and some that aren't, but what struck me was how Teproc responded:Interesting post by Ichimaru. I do hedge a lot, that's who I am, I'm never sure of anything. I know it's ont good for the game, and I do try to appear more certain than I am (for example, I am certain that pretty much every argument that has been done in the history of mafia can be reduced to WIFOM, because you're never sure scum isn't thinking three steps ahead of you), but I'm apparently failing at that.
That post was very convincing even though it was wrong. Could he have done that as scum ? Maybe. But I don't think so. Unvote
It isn't the same as mail-mi's classic "this is a good case on me" when he was scum in whatever game that was, but it is a cousin of sorts as Teproc basically says that Ichimaru has some valid points. Add to it a subtle hint of buddying by unvoting and ultimately getting a read of town from it...
but apart from that, this is interesting. The 'that post was very convincing' and him not suspecting ichimaru as much as he did before is suspicious.
I don't see what this has to do with my post... yes I sort of dismissed both of those lynches, but I'm not going to vote for people I don't suspect...I don't really like either the ichimaru or lekkit lynches. lekkit feels like the archetype mislynch in toy story - heavy lurking but doesn't indicate alignment. In regard to ichimaru, we've had many new players over the games who have emphasized their newbieness and also have done some of the classic scummy things people are talking about. again, I'm not seeing how it indicates alignment.
This is true to a point. But I feel like in both situations the frustrating for me has been the unwillingness of people to even explore the lynch as a possibility... like today (and yesterday) to an extent as well has seen an extreme absence of wagon building... today's biggest wagon was what? three people?
I am not suggesting that we need to get a bunch of players to L-1, but rather that part of building to a lynch is gauging reactions to that sort of pressure (and I am not talking about just voting for pressure, but voting because of something scummy and then seeing where the wagon leads), but that hasn't happened today, people have been so hesitant to vote, but rather have been very quick to dismiss potential wagons from the get-go. Why? Obviously this can't all be mafia because nearly everyone is doing it to an extent. Instead people have voted and then sat on that vote all by their lonesomes all day long...
Is this something that mafia would be more prone to do? Again I am sure there are town examples of this because multiple players are doing it, but is this an area where mafia is more likely to be? I kinda feel like I am grasping at straws and that this is just a day1 all over again...
I don't see what this has to do with my post... yes I sort of dismissed both of those lynches, but I'm not going to vote for people I don't suspect...I don't really like either the ichimaru or lekkit lynches. lekkit feels like the archetype mislynch in toy story - heavy lurking but doesn't indicate alignment. In regard to ichimaru, we've had many new players over the games who have emphasized their newbieness and also have done some of the classic scummy things people are talking about. again, I'm not seeing how it indicates alignment.
This is true to a point. But I feel like in both situations the frustrating for me has been the unwillingness of people to even explore the lynch as a possibility... like today (and yesterday) to an extent as well has seen an extreme absence of wagon building... today's biggest wagon was what? three people?
I am not suggesting that we need to get a bunch of players to L-1, but rather that part of building to a lynch is gauging reactions to that sort of pressure (and I am not talking about just voting for pressure, but voting because of something scummy and then seeing where the wagon leads), but that hasn't happened today, people have been so hesitant to vote, but rather have been very quick to dismiss potential wagons from the get-go. Why? Obviously this can't all be mafia because nearly everyone is doing it to an extent. Instead people have voted and then sat on that vote all by their lonesomes all day long...
Is this something that mafia would be more prone to do? Again I am sure there are town examples of this because multiple players are doing it, but is this an area where mafia is more likely to be? I kinda feel like I am grasping at straws and that this is just a day1 all over again...
So I think that's all I could find about teproc, and so it's not much. However, yuma's point about that one post is enough for him to be a better lynch than most other people, so he goes sort of in between 'want to lynch' and 'not opposed to lynching'.
Pretty much I want to lynch from the pool of ash, robz, chairs, and teproc. The farther to the left, the more I prefer to lynch them.
Now, yuma has a decent point about getting more wagons going, so I'll Vote: Robz888 to see if there's more support for it that ashersky.
I see that you've said a couple times that you like my lynch. Have you ever said why? I know why ash wants to lynch me; he wants to lynch everyone who calls him out.
I see that you've said a couple times that you like my lynch. Have you ever said why? I know why ash wants to lynch me; he wants to lynch everyone who calls him out.
What, exactly, have you called me out for? I've done nothing to be called out for. Basically all I've done this game is have a wrong read on Faust. If that makes me scum, then everyone to ever play forum mafia ever is scum, because no one has ever been right 100% of the time.
This is classic lazyscumrobz pushing the easy mislynch. You do it all the time, especially when you've got a stagnant game where it's easily brushed off the next day as a necessity lynch.
I totally got you, and you know it, and your partners know it too, which is why this isn't going anywhere.
My reads haven't changed that much since the 23rd. I'm more willing to lynch ashersky now than before, but that's about it. I get the feeling that he doesn't really want to find scum, but he seems kind of willing to stay in the game.
One thing I'm concerned about is the Teproc thing. I haven't really understood the case on him. I'll look into that today.
Sorry guys I had planned on having a bit more time, but woke up late and need to run to catch the bus. I see from the whole ~ 7 posts since last night nothing has really changed, teproc is still the best lynch most likely to go through so I am leaving my vote there.
Well, there's this, which was my initial reason for suspecting you:Now, yuma has a decent point about getting more wagons going, so I'll Vote: Robz888 to see if there's more support for it that ashersky.
I see that you've said a couple times that you like my lynch. Have you ever said why? I know why ash wants to lynch me; he wants to lynch everyone who calls him out.
and then e added this, some of which I agree with:Ashersky: Still my preference, I've said repeatedly that I think having a ridiculous read on faust was his scum strategy that backfired after faust committed game suicide on Day 1. The fact that practically no one else likes this case as much as I do makes me especially confident in it. But, you know, this is the sort of thing town ash COULD have done, unfortunately.
Liopoil: I know what the case is now. Basically, it's that he's pretty much a lurker until called out, and then he actually does work sort of hard to not be a lurkers (harder than, say, Eevee in this game for example). I guess that's fairly scummy. Like ash, it could just be the case that this is how lio just is.
I find both of these suspicious. Both are disclaimed at the end saying that it might be town!ash or town!lio. ash first:
I agree with the case on ashersky, and I don't think I'm voting for him. I should be. Vote: Ashersky. anyway, the bit that makes me suspicious of robz is that he says it could be town!ash. town!robz is always fairly sure that this is town ash when he does the town ash thing. I can pull quotes from multiple games if necessary. Should ash flip town, I think it really makes robz suspicious.
I really find it weird that robz isn't totally sold on the reason for suspecting me like he was before. Reads to me like it was an attempt to get me mislynched yesterday, but today there's more viable mislynches like ashersky. I remember he sort of did that in the B2B game that got reset, so when robz was scum and I was still town.
So I'm thinking that most likely one of robz and ashersky is scum, but ashersky is still more likely.
In fact, Robz? Here is some stuff on him- Opens up the liopoil case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326230#msg326230) that "scum!lio struggles early but plays better late." Gets a bunch of sheep. He originally gives slight credence (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326245#msg326245) to my Faust case, but then is turned off the case by Ashersky (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326952#msg326952). He throws out his vote for sale here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327093#msg327093) saying he is concerned about a bad D1. Jumps to Lekkit (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327098#msg327098) for a lurker lynch temporarily before realizing Lekkit wasn't really lurking just posting less frequently but still with content, then moves to Eevee as his lurker lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327107#msg327107) after I point out that Eevee is more of a lurker. Throws his vote out for sale again (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327368#msg327368). Has the whole episode of "wait no one post info about the setup because it might help scum!faust with a fakeclaim." (starting here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327447#msg327447)) He then jumps onto the little wagon against me for a bit here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327616#msg327616) before Faust reveals that he was lying about his fakeclaim. Robz then ends the day with his vote on me, after unvoting Faust to avoid ending the day before some people could comment. I recognize his "D1s are famously lacksadaisical" (to quote Ash from BM14 since he put it so nicely in the role PM) but putting his vote up for sale? twice? His D2 has not been great but no one has really stood out too much as being amazing, and I think he can probably (safely) trust that his meta will carry him through and avoid a lynch.
So this has been long and winding and a bunch of people posted while I was typing this, but I think it lands me at vote: Robz. I am not comfortable with the way he went through D1, and he has not done anything today to shake that feeling.
I don't really like either the ichimaru or lekkit lynches. lekkit feels like the archetype mislynch in toy story - heavy lurking but doesn't indicate alignment. In regard to ichimaru, we've had many new players over the games who have emphasized their newbieness and also have done some of the classic scummy things people are talking about. again, I'm not seeing how it indicates alignment.
Would much rather lynch ash or robz. teproc, eh, maybe, I need to look at whatever the case on him is closer.
e, which lynch do you prefer, ashersky or teproc? Not that you necessarily need to choose one now (I think there is still time for a third wagon to emerge), but at the end that's what it could come down to, if ash and teproc vote for each other in an attempt to save themselves.
too soon to say anything now, but just by that vote count, it looks plausible that we've caught two scum.
vote: Robz
That's 3 on Robz and 4 on Teproc. 2 on ashersky.
Have to head in to work for a bit, but will be back at least by 1-2pm. I will leave my vote where it is for now because I definitely don't want to put someone like Ash at L-1 yet.for once I have no problem putting people at L-1, because we are near the deadline and we need to deal with potential claims.
I think I'd rather move to Robz over ash, but I still feel most comfortable with Teproc of the 3 wagons currently out.
I have my reasons to believe ash is probably town.
Well, there's this, which was my initial reason for suspecting you:Now, yuma has a decent point about getting more wagons going, so I'll Vote: Robz888 to see if there's more support for it that ashersky.
I see that you've said a couple times that you like my lynch. Have you ever said why? I know why ash wants to lynch me; he wants to lynch everyone who calls him out.and then e added this, some of which I agree with:Ashersky: Still my preference, I've said repeatedly that I think having a ridiculous read on faust was his scum strategy that backfired after faust committed game suicide on Day 1. The fact that practically no one else likes this case as much as I do makes me especially confident in it. But, you know, this is the sort of thing town ash COULD have done, unfortunately.
Liopoil: I know what the case is now. Basically, it's that he's pretty much a lurker until called out, and then he actually does work sort of hard to not be a lurkers (harder than, say, Eevee in this game for example). I guess that's fairly scummy. Like ash, it could just be the case that this is how lio just is.
I find both of these suspicious. Both are disclaimed at the end saying that it might be town!ash or town!lio. ash first:
I agree with the case on ashersky, and I don't think I'm voting for him. I should be. Vote: Ashersky. anyway, the bit that makes me suspicious of robz is that he says it could be town!ash. town!robz is always fairly sure that this is town ash when he does the town ash thing. I can pull quotes from multiple games if necessary. Should ash flip town, I think it really makes robz suspicious.
I really find it weird that robz isn't totally sold on the reason for suspecting me like he was before. Reads to me like it was an attempt to get me mislynched yesterday, but today there's more viable mislynches like ashersky. I remember he sort of did that in the B2B game that got reset, so when robz was scum and I was still town.
So I'm thinking that most likely one of robz and ashersky is scum, but ashersky is still more likely.
In fact, Robz? Here is some stuff on him- Opens up the liopoil case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326230#msg326230) that "scum!lio struggles early but plays better late." Gets a bunch of sheep. He originally gives slight credence (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326245#msg326245) to my Faust case, but then is turned off the case by Ashersky (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326952#msg326952). He throws out his vote for sale here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327093#msg327093) saying he is concerned about a bad D1. Jumps to Lekkit (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327098#msg327098) for a lurker lynch temporarily before realizing Lekkit wasn't really lurking just posting less frequently but still with content, then moves to Eevee as his lurker lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327107#msg327107) after I point out that Eevee is more of a lurker. Throws his vote out for sale again (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327368#msg327368). Has the whole episode of "wait no one post info about the setup because it might help scum!faust with a fakeclaim." (starting here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327447#msg327447)) He then jumps onto the little wagon against me for a bit here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327616#msg327616) before Faust reveals that he was lying about his fakeclaim. Robz then ends the day with his vote on me, after unvoting Faust to avoid ending the day before some people could comment. I recognize his "D1s are famously lacksadaisical" (to quote Ash from BM14 since he put it so nicely in the role PM) but putting his vote up for sale? twice? His D2 has not been great but no one has really stood out too much as being amazing, and I think he can probably (safely) trust that his meta will carry him through and avoid a lynch.
So this has been long and winding and a bunch of people posted while I was typing this, but I think it lands me at vote: Robz. I am not comfortable with the way he went through D1, and he has not done anything today to shake that feeling.
I see lekkit voted for ash, and with my vote, that would be 4 people... are there two more who would vote for ash? at this point I really prefer that over robz.
oh, and CHAIRS! how did that get forgotten. We should lynch chairs if we can't get ashersky. maybe over robz even.
teproc is behind all three of those above. I'll vote there to get a lynch, but I think we can get a better one.
I think I'd rather move to Robz over ash, but I still feel most comfortable with Teproc of the 3 wagons currently out.
I have my reasons to believe ash is probably town.
What are they?
Ash is the easy lynch, but I am not a fan as of right now (will vote for a lynch though).
I am a Tracker. Ashersky did not target anybody last night.
What's done is done, I guess. This isn't like being a cop, where it clears him, but to me this feels like town!ash anyway.
Okay, I do think the Mcmc lynch is a mistake. I am a 1-shot Tracker. Last night, I tracked mcmcsalot. He took no action. I think this makes him significantly less likely to be scum, given what we know already.
FWIW, I have some (disastrous) experience as a Tracker (in M-XII, where I epic fail at it), but I still think my psychology for picking who to track was pretty much on in that game, so I stuck with it. I don't want to track the obvious people, because the obvious people aren't going to kill anyone (because they expect the tracker to be watching them). This is mafia 101, even in games without a tracker for some reason the less suspicious partner does the kill (Galz always did the kill in M-II; I was more suspicious, even though it didn't matter). So I was not going to track the people who came under heavy suspicion yesterday, which includes shraeye, Jimm, and Eevee basically. I was never going to track Galzria because he's just too obvious a person anyway, and there's always that likelihood he gets nightkilled just for being Galzria--which I bet is what happened here; I doubt a scum faction really thought they were shooting scum in Galz. So I wanted to pick someone who I thought could be scum, but who didn't know that I thought they could be scum. Like, Glooble and Dsell I really didn't think were scum, so I wasn't picking them. Also, just from what I know about my brother, he's like a really gung-ho guy (he posted his phone number in blitz whatever for goodness sake, so people could tell him when the lynch was happening), and it seemed reasonable if he was on a scumfaction he'd be likely to be the one taking the shot, just because he wanted to, in addition to everything else.
Well, he didn't do anything. I've thought about this a lot; this means he's probably not scum, right? If he were scum, and he were on Galzria's team, well, Galz is the rolecop, and it's pretty likely Galz can't take the shot AND rolecop someone, so unless it's a three person team, Mcmc takes the shot there. If Mcmc were SK, he has to take the shot. Of course there's a perfectly plausible scenario where Mcmc is on some other team, and for whatever reason was not the person who took the shot.
But anyway, I think we'd have to be PRETTY SURE to lynch him, since mathematically it seems to me like his odds of scum are much, much lower, right? I wouldn't bring this up if I thought it was a slamdunk case, but it's not a slamdunk case and from where I am standing it is the least likely lynch to hit scum.
I am a Tracker. Ashersky did not target anybody last night.
What's done is done, I guess. This isn't like being a cop, where it clears him, but to me this feels like town!ash anyway.
The nice thing that lynching Ash would do is if he were scum we have basically caught scum!chairs a la Robz being scum in the game he quoted
The nice thing that lynching Ash would do is if he were scum we have basically caught scum!chairs a la Robz being scum in the game he quoted
No...that's not true at all. Chairs could be town, ash could be scum who didn't do the kill, and X could be ash's partner who did do the kill.
The nice thing that lynching Ash would do is if he were scum we have basically caught scum!chairs a la Robz being scum in the game he quoted
No...that's not true at all. Chairs could be town, ash could be scum who didn't do the kill, and X could be ash's partner who did do the kill.
Well it would at least make us seriously consider chairs as our next lynch
The nice thing that lynching Ash would do is if he were scum we have basically caught scum!chairs a la Robz being scum in the game he quoted
No...that's not true at all. Chairs could be town, ash could be scum who didn't do the kill, and X could be ash's partner who did do the kill.
Well it would at least make us seriously consider chairs as our next lynch
Ok, well, yeah, we probably would. If we're right today. You should vote for ash.
I have to run out for a bit, but I will be back on in advance of deadline. Still think ash lynch is the best move.
my theory now is that the reason they didn't kill chairs was that they bus drove him.
if they have a player who is likely to be a PR then I think yes. otherwise the bus driver might get lynched and they never get a chance to use it. Now is their chance to create confusion.my theory now is that the reason they didn't kill chairs was that they bus drove him.
would they use a 1-shot bus drive N1 though?
Who is around to hammer Ash? I really don't see us lynching anyone else today?That was supposed to be a period not a question mark and the end of the second sentence
Who is around to hammer Ash? I really don't see us lynching anyone else today?I'm willing to hammer. But we still have what, an hour and a half left?
Who is around to hammer Ash? I really don't see us lynching anyone else today?teproc will be back, and he'll do it to save himself.
I'm here now, rereading. I won't hammer ash because I don't think he's scum, although I'll do it if we're like 5 minutes to deadline and there's nobody there ?deadline is at 6pm, so under 90 minutes.
How far is the deadline now ?
I want to hear from ashYes, same here. I am really close to hammering him, but I'd like to hear what he has to say first.
Ash better flip scum
Is Derphammering when you self hammer?
Chairs, why did you target ash? ash, don't neccessarily counter if you did target someone, there could be a bus driver.
I can think of 0 town narratives that make sense.unfortunately, this means nothing :(
Like, why the heck should we trust his reads, him of the faust=100% scum diatribes?also faust's dying words were for us to lynch ashersky... so if ash is town, then that's a reason not to trust the reads of dead townies.
I can think of 0 town narratives that make sense.unfortunately, this means nothing :(Like, why the heck should we trust his reads, him of the faust=100% scum diatribes?also faust's dying words were for us to lynch ashersky... so if ash is town, then that's a reason not to trust the reads of dead townies.
I can think of 0 town narratives that make sense.unfortunately, this means nothing :(Like, why the heck should we trust his reads, him of the faust=100% scum diatribes?also faust's dying words were for us to lynch ashersky... so if ash is town, then that's a reason not to trust the reads of dead townies.
Check out lio trying to taint my words for tomorrow.
Check out lio trying to taint my words for tomorrow.
reminds me of ash in mean girls on D3 when his lynch was inevitable. I'm feeling hopefulI can think of 0 town narratives that make sense.unfortunately, this means nothing :(Like, why the heck should we trust his reads, him of the faust=100% scum diatribes?also faust's dying words were for us to lynch ashersky... so if ash is town, then that's a reason not to trust the reads of dead townies.
Check out lio trying to taint my words for tomorrow.
Check out lio trying to taint my words for tomorrow.
You just never stop, do you? If you're town, I will listen to nothing you have said because you have scummed up, like, everyone you've ever talked about.
Chairs, why did you target ash? ash, don't neccessarily counter if you did target someone, there could be a bus driver.
He seemed to be vaguely hinting PR, I figured if he targeted somebody and didn't have that person die at night we had a really good chance he was town.
Ash, no one tunneled you as hard as you yourself tunneled A) faust, and B) those who criticize you.
Better be scum.
2) protects teproc, who I believe is town
How funny would it be if I was vengeful? There's a good reason to "scum it up."
nahhh, don't give him anything.2) protects teproc, who I believe is town
If you flip VT, I guess I'll give you that. Doesn't outweigh everything else.
Ash, no one tunneled you as hard as you yourself tunneled A) faust, and B) those who criticize you.
Better be scum.
Incorrect. I did tunnel Faust. Epic tunnel.
However, no one criticized me all game, so I didn't tunnel anyone for doing so.
2) protects teproc, who I believe is townTrust me, I've noticed Robz being reasonable and helpful. I'm wondering now. But I want your flip first.
I wouldn't call it an epic tunnel. All you did was say Faust is 100% scum. I am the one who actually built anything resembling a case. You just stuck on that case even after I left it.
Meanwhile I'm the only one off-wagon both times, whatever you might think that means.
It was ridiculous town play, but I still think the ash lynch was scummy. Looking at the final vote counts both days :
Day 1 :
faust (7): ashersky, Lekkit, liopoil, Ichimaru, yuma, Eevee, mail-mi
Eevee (3): 2.7, faust, Teproc
2.7 (1): Robz
liopoil (1): chairs
mail-mi (1): Voltaire
Day 2 :
ashersky (6): Robz, Voltaire, Lekkit, liopoil, 2.7, ashersky
Teproc (4): Ichimaru, chairs, mail-mi, yuma
Not Voting (1): Teproc
So Lekkit and liopoil are the only ones to be on-wagon for both mislynches, although 2.7 was also on mislynch wagons on both days. I also happen to know that Ichimaru, mail-mi and yuma would fit that bill as well, but of course you guys don't.
Meanwhile I'm the only one off-wagon both times, whatever you might think that means.
This means that I will be looking at Lekkit and liopoil first today. Mislynching twice doesn't make them scum of course, but it deserves scrutiny.
Post count - old post count (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg328617#msg328617) for reference:
1. Voltaire - 203
2. Robz888 - 154
3. mail-mi - 67
6. Yuma - 128
7. Ichimaru Gin -
8. Lekkit - 46
9. Liopoil - 111
10. Teproc - 128
11. 2.7 - 184
Post count - old post count (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg328617#msg328617) for reference:
7. Ichimaru Gin -
Post count - old post count (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg328617#msg328617) for reference:
1. Voltaire - 203
2. Robz888 - 154
3. mail-mi - 67
6. Yuma - 128
7. Ichimaru Gin - 69
8. Lekkit - 46
9. Liopoil - 111
10. Teproc - 128
11. 2.7 - 184
Post count - old post count (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg328617#msg328617) for reference:
7. Ichimaru Gin -
?
Post count - old post count (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg328617#msg328617) for reference:
7. Ichimaru Gin -
?
sorry. I search via "goko username: xxxx" and since you don't have one I skipped you and forgot to go back to it. 2.7 fixed it for me.
so everyone is scummy except for you, robz and voltaire? You kinda paint with a wide brush here saying that lekkit, liopoil, 2.7, ichimaru, mail-mi and yuma are all suspicious just based off the vote counts...
But I am with lio on this point. You have to look at the context of where people are on the wagons and how they contributed to it....
My energy for this game is going to increase when my other ongoing game finishes, I promise. Top scum reads right now are...oh god, everyone. :(
My energy for this game is going to increase when my other ongoing game finishes, I promise. Top scum reads right now are...oh god, everyone. :(
and you have a 3/8 (37.5%) chance of being correct!
That's assuming he isn't scum. Do you know something we don't, e ?
*THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SARCASM*
Robz, do the flavor names we've gotten from flips so far confirm that flavor isn't indicative of PRness ?
Post count - old post count (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg328617#msg328617) for reference:
1. Voltaire - 203
2. Robz888 - 154
3. mail-mi - 67
6. Yuma - 128
7. Ichimaru Gin - 69
8. Lekkit - 46
9. Liopoil - 111
10. Teproc - 128
11. 2.7 - 184
FTFY
Also, chairs voted for me, yes. So ? If you want to go down that road, ash apparently thought I was town !
Here's a hint : being town doesn't make you right. In fact, it's a lot easier for scum to be right. The only people who know my alignment are scum and myself.
my reads have become a fair bit weaker now that ash flipped town... feels like I haven't got anything right lately. What I've got is:
lean scum: robz, teproc
null-maybe-scummy?: yuma, 2.7
null-maybe-townie?: lekkit, ichimaru gin, mail-mi
Town: liopoil, voltaire
so frustrating. D1 mislynch because of town fakeclaim, D2 mislynch because ridiculous town play + self-hammer.
oh, and two town PRs dead in two nights.
what we know about the setup: I-R-?-?-?-?-?. so nothing useful.
I'd like to know everyone's stance on 2.7 and Voltaire.
I'd like to know everyone's stance on 2.7 and Voltaire.2.7 got surpassed by teproc in scuminess but is still number 2.
I'd like to know everyone's stance on 2.7 and Voltaire.
Day2 in rereading I noticed an odd flip-flop on teproc that I would like 2.7 to address at some point specifically posts: 1304 and 1339.I don't really see a flip-flop in those two posts.
He also started out the day as town on ashersky, but slowly moved toward him being scum... he had one big post 1255 that doesn't give an opinion, but just a little bit later he is willing to vote for ashersky. his reasoning is thus: "Ashersky- His play has been, uh, interesting. I really don't know what to make of it. I could see it coming from scum!ash or town!ash. willing to vote" So I could see a narrative of 2.7 seeing the ash wagon growing and thinking "i could vote for this wagon to move it along and get a mislynch." But later says that ash is an easy lynch and isn't a fan of it, but will (and does) vote for it.
I am good with starting whenever, I just may not be able to be as active right out of the gate. Next week is a relatively busy work week for me.and then....
FIRSTclearly he must be scum, town wouldn't be this excited to get into the game. ;)
I don't know Dynasty Warriors, so mass-claiming flavor names will not really help me. However, it could be really useful to certain PR town members (Robz?) as they make decisions for night actions. I like flavor name claiming.
I am Zhuge Liang
Ashersky was Zhuge Liang, a Vanilla Townie
Let's try this.oh, I forgot about this. yeah, that's weirder that I even thought.
I'm Zhang Fei. Does that help anyone figure anything out about how flavor claiming will help us catch scum?
I don't know Dynasty Warriors, so mass-claiming flavor names will not really help me. However, it could be really useful to certain PR town members (Robz?) as they make decisions for night actions. I like flavor name claiming.
I am Zhuge LiangAshersky was Zhuge Liang, a Vanilla Townie
Let's try this.
I'm Zhang Fei. Does that help anyone figure anything out about how flavor claiming will help us catch scum?
seems like mod error is most likely now. so maybe ashersky was scum!? yeah, wishful thinking...
if it is indeed mod error, I think this gives me a fairly large townread on e.
Is the reasoning that mcmc is more likely to make that mistake if they're both VTs ? I guess that makes sense, but I don't really like speculating on a mod mistake.
Also, I don't think lio picking up on this is particularly townie.
Do you think he wouldn't have done it as scum ? Why ?
@Voltaire : Why would mcmc's mistake make e into an IC ? I don't get this at all.
e is scum, his fakeclaim is Zhuge Liang. He saw ash fakeclaim, saw that he was mostly getting town points from it, so he followed suit. He failed to notice mcmc's mistake (like all of us). What more do you need ?still needs mcmc to have flipped a name that isn't in the game at all. He's much more likely to flip a name that another townie has than one that doesn't exist in this game. He could have missed mcmc's mistake, but I think it's more likely for that to happen as town. Also note that all his scumbuddies must have missed it too.
I'd like to know everyone's stance on 2.7 and Voltaire.
Thats nice.
As long as we are in the business of making requests of people, I'd like everyone to wait to share their opinions until Lekkit puts out his stance first.
So, people who haven't weighed in on Voltaire/2.7 :
- Robz
- Ichimaru
"the best mislynch" ? Isn't that something that faust said, rather than 2.7 ? And yeah, he's relatively new, this is his third game I believe, the second one still ongoing. Same for me in that regard.
2.7 : Flavour claims too early, which I don't like at all. Same question as for ashersky as far as his flavour goes. What really gets me is the faust vote. I have a votes summary whrere I write down reasons, and here I wrote "Unclear why". That's already bad, but there were plenty of those in this game (looking at you, Voltaire). The problem is he then acts as if he had built an incredibly strong case on faust, so much so that he wants everyone to respond to it. There's nothing to respond too ! All you have is "I can't shake the feeling faust is scum." That's fine, but it's not actually a case. Which is exactly his objection to faust's case on ash. So yeah.
Actually, I've talked myself into a vote: 2.7 here. Summaries are scumhuntaries !
This was before Yuma's post count and calling me out on it. I guess I sort of followed my joke about picking someone to tunnel, but varied from the joke in that it was not a random "draw out of the hat" tunnel. It was because in my reread he was the one who came up scummiest. And we had to start somewhereI'm caught up, but I don't have like thoughts about anything.I feel a lot like this right now. I have been super quiet, and I apologize. I will look to post a lot more in the coming days, but have been busy with work doing a bunch of short trips that take me away from my computer. I mean there was the whole claim thing (which I was right about, even if you do not think I should have claimed when I did) then we all kinds of for to a point of "let's not talk about this anymore" then the chairs thing, but not much else. I am pretty busy tonight and tomorrow but I will put some real effort into getting some reads Sunday. But I just feel as if there isn't a whole lot to go off of.
I guess I should do a random drawing them just tunnel the person I draw if nothing else happens.
(For the sake of clarity, that was a joke)
Does this feel like an attempt to justify behavior by manipulating his own quote to make it look like something that it wasn't originally?
When I first saw the quote he is presenting I thought it was a sarcastic rewrite--and valid rewrite--of Robz's post saying basically that "there wasn't anything to comment on except for a whole bunch of stuff... I mean he even calls it a joke in that post
But now 2.7 is saying that it was a post that he wrote showing that he wasn't posting very much and that it woke him up, not my post count saying that he wasn't posting much...
This looks like a stretch to me. a scummy stretch vote: 2.7
I'm Xiaqiao. Town Hider. I've hid behind 2.7 and Voltaire. In that order. They are both town.
I'm Xiaqiao. Town Hider. I've hid behind 2.7 and Voltaire. In that order. They are both town.Okay. Between this and mod error, I think e is town now.
I'm Xiaqiao. Town Hider. I've hid behind 2.7 and Voltaire. In that order. They are both town.
Yeah, this is awesome. Long-awaited re-read tomorrow I hope?Directed to me I'm guessing?
hey voltaire, I think now is the time when POE is useful!
yes, I know you think that, but this time I agree with you!hey voltaire, I think now is the time when POE is useful!
POE is always useful. :P
This [faust] wagon has three phases:
Phase 1: pre-claim. Ashersky, 2.7, and Lekkit are the only three who vote Faust at this time.
Why couldn't Lekkit pick his two partners in a fakeclaim ?
Order of operations for night resolution is as follows:
Commuting
Hiding
Bus Driving
Jailkeeping / Roleblocking
Protecting
Killing
Investigating
By the way, could a Bus Driver mess with Lekkit's hiding without him knowing ?
Order of operations for night resolution is as follows:
Commuting
Hiding
Bus Driving
Jailkeeping / Roleblocking
Protecting
Killing
Investigating
Problem is, mafia knows better than us. Assuming we don't have a Serial Killer, if they don't have a Bus Driver, they know they can fakeclaim whatever the hell they want. So massclaiming might be dangerous.
And come on Voltaire, you know I'm not scum. I thought you could read me like a book or something to that effect ? What's the case against me again, that I'm hedgy and I unvoted after Ichimaru made a good case against me ?
Why are you voting liopoil as a placeholder if I'm your top scum read ?
Day 1 Final Vote Count
2.7... (1): Robz
Eevee (3): 2.7..., faust, Teproc
liopoil (1): chairs
faust (7): ashersky, Lekkit, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin, yuma, Eevee, mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Voltaire
Day 2 Final Vote Count
ashersky (6): Robz, Voltaire, Lekkit, Liopoil, 2.71828, ashersky
Teproc (4): Ichimaru Gin, chairs, mail-mi, yuma
Not Voting (1): teproc
I don't know if you should have done this Volt.
I think ICs (and that's how I'm treating Volt, 2.7 and Lekkit going forward, for today at least) shouldn't be as open about their intentions because it makes it easier for scum to figure out who's lynchable and who's not.
How are my stances hard to follow ? I've been clear in my belief of Lekkit's claim, haven't I ?
I think that's probably what we should do, but if you and Lekkit were scum partners that's exactly what you'd say, you know.
one other point really quick. could i ask lekkit to provide reasoning for why he hid behind volt and 2.7 the first thing when he comes on, just so it is on record?
So Teproc is currently my top scum candidate, but that means we had town (ash) vs. scum (Teproc) wagons yesterday. I'm re-reading how those votes went down to see if that's plausible.
That sounds.. very hard for scum that doesn't know the show (game?).
Jeez people, everything will be explained.
Pm's are going out, and hopefully you learned from last time don't freak out when you get a colored Pm, The Battle of the Red Cliffs is the showdown between the massive Wei army(Bad Guys!), against the combined forces of the Wu naval fleet(Good Guys!) and some Shu officers(also good guys!)
Even assuming Lekkit is Wu, isn't that a lot of Shu ? Maybe I'm misreading mcmc's post, but I assumed there would be significantly more Shu than Wu.
Ok, I might have made some mistakes. I assumed everyone who died so far was Shu because they flipped green, but it looks like Lu Meng (faust) was Wu so I'll have to check those by name.
I guess we don't get much out of this then.
The above split looks perfectly plausible to me.
The above split looks perfectly plausible to me.
It shouldn't though, should it ? We know for a fact 3 people are lying. If the split looks plausible, that means scum is 2 Wu, 1 Shu.
Does that make sense ?
But I think it would look just as plausible, if you flipped a Wu and a Shu.
But I think it would look just as plausible, if you flipped a Wu and a Shu.
So 2-3 scum among the Wu?
Does that make sense?
Vote Count 1.9
很有意思
2.7... (2): Teproc, yuma
faust (1): ashersky
mail-mi (1): Voltaire
Voltaire (2): mail-mi, Lekkit
liopoil (5): Robz888, Eevee,chairs, faust, Ichimaru Gin {L-2}
Not Voting (2):liopoil, 2.7....
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December, 19 at 2:00 p.m. Forum time.
I mean, on the off chance this is the case, we should just straight-up flavor claim, as I advocated on Day 1. Like I said then, I doubt it will help, but I can't imagine a scenario where it hurts.I thought they likely indirectly indicated role?
I mean, on the off chance this is the case, we should just straight-up flavor claim, as I advocated on Day 1. Like I said then, I doubt it will help, but I can't imagine a scenario where it hurts.I thought they likely indirectly indicated role?
does lekkit's role indicate hider?
I'm Xiaqiao. Town Hider. I've hid behind 2.7 and Voltaire. In that order. They are both town.
vote: mail-miis there a connection between the vote on mail-mi and the text? what's the reason for the vote?
It's worth noting that lio and Teproc have had big wagons run up on them. Of our 6 lynch candidates, that's 2. Makes it decent odds that we ran up a wagon on scum at one point. Still want feedback on what everyone things about Teproc having been the alternative to ash and what that says about his alignment.
vote: mail-miis there a connection between the vote on mail-mi and the text? what's the reason for the vote?
It's worth noting that lio and Teproc have had big wagons run up on them. Of our 6 lynch candidates, that's 2. Makes it decent odds that we ran up a wagon on scum at one point. Still want feedback on what everyone things about Teproc having been the alternative to ash and what that says about his alignment.
I don't think Teproc being the alternative to ash speaks to his alignment. When things like that do speak to someone's alignment, it's usually because their scumbuddies pushed the other wagon through. In this case, I know I heavily supported the ash wagon, and so did voltaire, who is probably town too. So I don't think it means much.
Day 2 Final Vote Count
ashersky (6): Robz, Voltaire, Lekkit, Liopoil, 2.71828, ashersky
Teproc (4): Ichimaru Gin, chairs, mail-mi, yuma
Not Voting (1): teproc
2) protects teproc, who I believe is townTrust me, I've noticed Robz being reasonable and helpful. I'm wondering now. But I want your flip first.
I can say the same about you, though.
As far as the ash wagon goes, of course it had town on it! There are only three scum in this game. So what do you think about it? Can we learn anything about Teproc's alignment?buddying? what, you mean the thing about POE? :P
Basically, I am noticing lio buddying me. That is not necessarily a scum tell. But I want to get this lynch right because it put us back in the game and scum has got to be just gut-punched by this turn of events.Day 2 Final Vote Count
ashersky (6): Robz, Voltaire, Lekkit, Liopoil, 2.71828, ashersky
Teproc (4): Ichimaru Gin, chairs, mail-mi, yuma
Not Voting (1): teproc
So no, I still don't think it speaks to his alignment, because the only way that it might implicate him is if scum!robz pushed the ash wagon to save Teproc. And really, robz was on the ash wagon before the Teproc wagon, right?
buddying? what, you mean the thing about POE? :P
Day 1 Final Vote Count
2.7... (1): Robz
Eevee (3): 2.7..., faust, Teproc
liopoil (1): chairs
faust (7): ashersky, Lekkit, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin, yuma, Eevee, mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Voltaire
I'm Xiaqiao. Town Hider. I've hid behind 2.7 and Voltaire. In that order. They are both town.
Robz has been doing this to me, too. Red flags have been going off ever since2) protects teproc, who I believe is townTrust me, I've noticed Robz being reasonable and helpful. I'm wondering now. But I want your flip first.
I can say the same about you, though.
What have I been doing to you?
Oh I didn't think about that at all. wow. yeah, if teproc is scum, that means that at least one of his buddies voted for him yesterday. Which is pretty plausible I guess, but if it's just one buddy then robz must be scum. Otherwise he has two buddies voting for him. So nevermind, that is pretty big. Town points for Teproc for sure [/buddy]So no, I still don't think it speaks to his alignment, because the only way that it might implicate him is if scum!robz pushed the ash wagon to save Teproc. And really, robz was on the ash wagon before the Teproc wagon, right?
Yup.
So doesn't that mean Teproc is probably town from your point of view? Because scum didn't need to drive another wagon, they could let those two sit and whichever it was was fine with them. And those two wagons did percolate for an awfully long time.
It makes me think that we were really bad at this game D1. I think it's possible that we could have only voted for town. Plus, there's a very fair chance that mail-mi is scum.Day 1 Final Vote Count
2.7... (1): Robz
Eevee (3): 2.7..., faust, Teproc
liopoil (1): chairs
faust (7): ashersky, Lekkit, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin, yuma, Eevee, mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Voltaire
Also lio, if you're town, this means that mail-mi is the only possible scum who could have received a vote in the final tally. What do you think about that?
What have I been doing to you?
Buddying while setting yourself up to have a scum read on me if I ever have a scum read on you.
Oh and voltaire, you didn't answer what the reason for the mail-mi vote is.
So scum to town of my lynchpool:
Robz
mail-mi
yuma: null
Ichimaru Gin
Teproc: He must have been bussed twice if scum and robz town. That's huge.
Vote: Robz I think. If he isn't scum then the ash wagon was pure town, which seems less likely. Also, robz always correctly identifies town!ash (slight exaggeration). But the main reason is the stuff from prior days which hasn't gone away. And gut/POE
Have you figured out I'm obvtown yet ?
@Robz : Just joking, I saw liopoil and Voltaire saying that I was unlikely to be scum because of the way the wagons broke down so I figured I'd comment on it.
@Robz : Just joking, I saw liopoil and Voltaire saying that I was unlikely to be scum because of the way the wagons broke down so I figured I'd comment on it.
Yep, I'm asking them to clarify.
So scum to town of my lynchpool:
Robz
mail-mi
yuma: null
Ichimaru Gin
Teproc: He must have been bussed twice if scum and robz town. That's huge.
I request that everyone who is not myself/Lekkit/e post a reads list in this style.
Look at the final vote count of yesterday. Assuming we believe lekkit, all of the ash wagon is conf!town except us two. Everyone else except Teproc is voting for Teproc. That means, from my perspective at least, that at least one of his buddies was bussing him yesterday if he is scum, two buddies if you are town as well.@Robz : Just joking, I saw liopoil and Voltaire saying that I was unlikely to be scum because of the way the wagons broke down so I figured I'd comment on it.
Yep, I'm asking them to clarify.
So scum to town of my lynchpool:
Robz
mail-mi
yuma: null
Ichimaru Gin
Teproc: He must have been bussed twice if scum and robz town. That's huge.
I request that everyone who is not myself/Lekkit/e post a reads list in this style.
Ok.
Teproc
mail-mi: It seems like he's almost dropped off the map post-wise. I think there's a good chance he's scum.
Robz: Don't really understand the case on him
Liopoil: null
Yuma: null
Just a head's up. My grandparents are coming over tonight--but I should be able to check in again before I go to bed.
So scum to town of my lynchpool:
Robz
mail-mi
yuma: null
Ichimaru Gin
Teproc: He must have been bussed twice if scum and robz town. That's huge.
I request that everyone who is not myself/Lekkit/e post a reads list in this style.
Ok.
Teproc
mail-mi: It seems like he's almost dropped off the map post-wise. I think there's a good chance he's scum.
Robz: Don't really understand the case on him
Liopoil: null
Yuma: null
Just a head's up. My grandparents are coming over tonight--but I should be able to check in again before I go to bed.
Come on, those don't count as reads. That's three null, one scum read because he's not posting and one you're not even commenting on.
I find yuma more towny than liopoilthat's not null
I find yuma more towny than liopoilthat's not null
I only ever correctly identify ash because I assume he's town and he's usually town. I think in practice I'm no better and calling him than I am at anyone else, and probably worse.Well, when I read this I had a 'that's ridiculous!' moment and went to go pull quotes from a zillion different games, but only found a couple. So, never mind then.
For some reason I didn't get these were in order of scumminess. That makes more sense.
I don't think "near complete lack of suspicion" really counts anymore though, I was the main alternative to the ash lynch on day 2. If you want to see lack of suspicion, look at yuma, I don't think he's gotten a vote all game (not that I think it's actually scummy to go unsuspected).
okay reads:
teproc
ichi
robz
yuma
liopoil.
Am I still voting teproc? I should be. vote: teproc3
oh and sorry, i haen't been paying as much attention to this game as I should, a lot of stuff has been happening lately.
Extremely busy today, sorry. Um, I haven't done of those? I don't know. I guess mail-mi is the scummiest, but there really isn't anyone in this pool that makes me say "definitely town, do not lynch." I most resistant to lynching Ichimaru, I suppose. Sort of just gut feeling that he is a newbie townie.
Extremely busy today, sorry. Um, I haven't done of those? I don't know. I guess mail-mi is the scummiest, but there really isn't anyone in this pool that makes me say "definitely town, do not lynch." I most resistant to lynching Ichimaru, I suppose. Sort of just gut feeling that he is a newbie townie.
What do you think about lio? Do you think no scum were involved in ash's lynch?
What about teproc too?
okay reads:
teproc
ichi
robz
yuma
liopoil.
Am I still voting teproc? I should be. vote: teproc3
oh and sorry, i haen't been paying as much attention to this game as I should, a lot of stuff has been happening lately.
Please elaborate and give reasons for the rankings, mail-mi.
Only Robz hasn't done one of these so far.
You think lio was under pressure yesterday?
Now, the reaosn I'm hesitant to say this is I'm actually having trouble remembering what's happened in this game (exactly 36 games in is my breaking point I guess), and it could be that lio got less pressure than I remember yesterday.
okay reads:
teproc
ichi
robz
yuma
liopoil.
Am I still voting teproc? I should be. vote: teproc3
oh and sorry, i haen't been paying as much attention to this game as I should, a lot of stuff has been happening lately.
Please elaborate and give reasons for the rankings, mail-mi.
Only Robz hasn't done one of these so far.
Teproc: bad voting and day 2 stuff
Ichi: I didnt think so before but he fits bill for Newbie scum pretty well.
Robz:null
Yuma: hasn't done anything to make me suspicious, but it's yuma so...
Liopoil: same as yuma without the but it's yuma part
In my memory, lio got no pressure at all from anyone but yuma (and I think mail-mi sheeping him) yesterday. In my memory, it never developed into a serious wagon.
In my memory, lio got no pressure at all from anyone but yuma (and I think mail-mi sheeping him) yesterday. In my memory, it never developed into a serious wagon.
Okay well I really have to re read but you wanted answers NOW
Can we stop with that argument ? What do you want people to do, wait a little before they respond to quasi-IC's questions ? That's kinda dumb.Okay well I really have to re read but you wanted answers NOW
No, not really, but you did show up to give answers NOW the moment you were called out.
Hostile ? I thought I was being light-hearted, but I guess it doesn't come through that way. Sorry then.
Phone post:
Isn't claiming vengeful normally something that gets you lynched?
So why would Faust claim it?
It's almost like he wants to get lynched.
The whole "this is going nowhere" thing kinda cinches if for me
I find Faust's claim completely scummy. That, and the fact that he just disappeared after making it. His excuse does not hold up in my mind either.
We need a lynch today, and I think Faust is it.
vote: Faust
My gut says lynch Teproc. But my gut is also very hungry.
I'm more likely to think faust is scum post-claim. Vengeful is absolutely the thing scum would claim here. They actually want to proactively claim that if they can, probably. And faust wasn't in any danger, was he? I have to check. If he really, really isn't in any danger, I may actually want to lynch him after all. Yeah.
Yeah, there were only two people voting for him. So he had no reason to claim, but did, in order to put out the kind of claim that scum really really wants to make.
Fausr, do you disagree that that's what you did? We really gotta understand you here, man.
before any of us say anything further regarding the claim, I let's have faust fully explain why he claimed, and why he says he will vengekill ashersky no matter what.
talking more will just give scum!faust ideas.
I realize mail-mi is an option, but I don't think he's as scummy as e. re: #3, I don't really think it's that weird. He could honestly think that town could be convinced to lynch chairs. He might be trying to fish for chairs' role.3, there's no way a chairs lynch is happening anyway.
Lastly, it seems that an eevee lynch isn't happening. the other clear options are faust and me, and I don't like either of those options. E now is at 3 votes and I think has a chance of happening, and is suspicious.
I am very, very tempted to vote for e, but the one thing holding me back is your 3. Why would e, as scum, do something as suspicious/crazy as vote for chairs (even if that's good for scum) when it's clear chairs isn't going through?
Also, mail-mi is an option. He may only have two votes but other people have called him scummy as well.
faust was active again at 17:22 forum time...
I'll go ahead and Vote: faust now. Worst case scenario his explanation is good and I unvote, so yeah, why not vote now.
So, here's an interesting exercise. Now that we know that ash was town, how do we think scum reacted to the faust fakeclaim ? They wouldn't have had any reason to disbelieve it, in which case faust was pretty much the best mislynch ever for them. So that's from #806 to #970
I'll look at Ichimaru first, because he's the first of my lynch pool to post in that time frame :Phone post:
Isn't claiming vengeful normally something that gets you lynched?
So why would Faust claim it?
It's almost like he wants to get lynched.
The whole "this is going nowhere" thing kinda cinches if for me
One thing that strikes me as odd in this post (his first one after the claim) is that first question. As a newbie (that's not meant to be mean by the way, just in case), why would Ichimaru think that claiming Vengeful is something that gets you lynched ? The two I can think of are :
- Ichimaru is Vengeful, so he did some research on how to play the role, and got the idea that it was bad to claim as Vengeful (which might be true, I haven't given it that much thought tbh)
- Ichimaru is scum, and has discussed possible fakeclaims with his partners in the QT.
That's not where I was going with this, but I thought it was worth noting.
Back on track :I find Faust's claim completely scummy. That, and the fact that he just disappeared after making it. His excuse does not hold up in my mind either.
We need a lynch today, and I think Faust is it.
vote: Faust
So, consistent with the "jumping with glee" approach to the faust fakeclaim.
Looking at Robz next.
I am going to withhold judgement on faust until/if we hear from him. I will not be online during the deadline. I will be at work and unable to post, so hopefully we will hear from him soon.
i will get online before leaving for work--something I generally don't, but I'll get up early just for you guys...
I think I am still comfortable with my vote on 2.7, but want to go through my list of people not excluded from my town list.
I wish I had more time, less work and a less upset stomach. Too much happening for me to actually do something productive here today. On the bright side I have the day off tomorrow since I had to work today. I really hope I won't be feeling as beat as I did yesterday.
I'd like to put this up for discussion. If we lynch scum today, should I go for the suicide hiding? I think it might be worth it since we are then left with only 1 mafia. And it would confirm my claim. The problem is that I don't really have very strong scum reads this game and hiding behind town and getting double killed would be really bad.
I'd like to put this up for discussion. If we lynch scum today, should I go for the suicide hiding? I think it might be worth it since we are then left with only 1 mafia. And it would confirm my claim. The problem is that I don't really have very strong scum reads this game and hiding behind town and getting double killed would be really bad.Yes actually, I think you should do this but only if we lynch scum today. even if you hide behind town, it gets rid of a suspect for us, while scum would otherwise kill one of voltaire/e.
I'd like to put this up for discussion. If we lynch scum today, should I go for the suicide hiding? I think it might be worth it since we are then left with only 1 mafia. And it would confirm my claim. The problem is that I don't really have very strong scum reads this game and hiding behind town and getting double killed would be really bad.
I'd like to put this up for discussion. If we lynch scum today, should I go for the suicide hiding? I think it might be worth it since we are then left with only 1 mafia. And it would confirm my claim. The problem is that I don't really have very strong scum reads this game and hiding behind town and getting double killed would be really bad.Yes actually, I think you should do this but only if we lynch scum today. even if you hide behind town, it gets rid of a suspect for us, while scum would otherwise kill one of voltaire/e.
So once we've decided who we're lynching, pick your top scumread besides who we lynch, and say that you are going to be hiding behind them should our lynch flip scum.
note you really don't need the town's consent to do this, it's totally up to you. we can't stop you even if we think it's a bad idea.
if we lynch town I think you probably shouldn't hide, because if there are two deaths tonight we lose.
I wish I had more time, less work and a less upset stomach. Too much happening for me to actually do something productive here today. On the bright side I have the day off tomorrow since I had to work today. I really hope I won't be feeling as beat as I did yesterday.
I'd like to put this up for discussion. If we lynch scum today, should I go for the suicide hiding? I think it might be worth it since we are then left with only 1 mafia. And it would confirm my claim. The problem is that I don't really have very strong scum reads this game and hiding behind town and getting double killed would be really bad.
Well, if you hide scum won't target you 'cause it's a missed kill. Scum will probably take out myself or e, since they need to kill an IC. So...maybe yeah, go for the suicide death? That would be two NKs, but probably gets us another scum lynch. But this is a hypothetical where we've lynched scum...so yeah, my input is try to die.
Ultimately it's your call.
I mean, even if Lekkit doesn't hide, I think scum is more likely to target Voltaire or e, keeping the possibility that Lekkit is fakeclaiming. If they kill Lekkit, Voltaire and e become actual ICs.right, so he should hide if we lynch scum.
Hmmm. This is not great for me, because I don't think faust is scum and I really don't think ash is scum.
I looked at the setup recently, and if I remember correctly, Vengeful has 50% chance to happen if one K is rolled, and there will always be at least one Vengeful if more than one K is rolled.
Vengeful is probably the go to scum fakeclaim but... I mean, it's a pretty likely role to exist, and I do think his timing makes sense here. I wouldn't have claimed at that point myself, but it makes sense to help narrow the lynch down.
Basically, I think his claim doesn't change anything to his likelihood of being town/scum. But I don't want to lynch him because I believe ash to be town, and I'm not confident either way as to faust's alignment.
- If Lekkit doesn't hide, scum kills Voltaire/2.7. That's 5/2, and non-IC town is looking at a 50% chance of lynching correctly (2 out of 4). If we mislynch then, that puts us in lylo.
I'd like to put this up for discussion. If we lynch scum today, should I go for the suicide hiding? I think it might be worth it since we are then left with only 1 mafia. And it would confirm my claim. The problem is that I don't really have very strong scum reads this game and hiding behind town and getting double killed would be really bad.Yes actually, I think you should do this but only if we lynch scum today. even if you hide behind town, it gets rid of a suspect for us, while scum would otherwise kill one of voltaire/e.
So once we've decided who we're lynching, pick your top scumread besides who we lynch, and say that you are going to be hiding behind them should our lynch flip scum.
note you really don't need the town's consent to do this, it's totally up to you. we can't stop you even if we think it's a bad idea.
if we lynch town I think you probably shouldn't hide, because if there are two deaths tonight we lose.
If his scumread is wrong, we lose, right ? Seems like a solid plan.
So...we've stalled. I'd say this means scum is fine with who we're lynching, but we're not lynching anyone.
also can someone summarize the whole liopoil thing in regard to 2.7's flavor for me. I missed that in real time and kinda glossed over it, but it appears that some seem to think it has real implications. I would greatly appreciate a summary.
Voltaire: my biggest townread. Like robz said, he's been exactly like normal town voltaire, and it doesn't seem fake. I first got the townread from his reactions at the very start of the game regarding the flavor thing. He was pretty bold in what he was saying, and as scum I think it put him at risk of being caught should the setup been different from what it is. Lastly, I agreed with him in regard to ashersky and the fact that ashersky, who tried super hard to get voltaire lynched, couldn't find any good reasons (I thought) to lynch him makes me not really worried that he's scum.
2.7: I'm gonna actually reread for this one, because despite him having nearly 200 posts I remember very little about him:
first, off-topic a bit, here's something I just stumbled upon - pregame he says this:I am good with starting whenever, I just may not be able to be as active right out of the gate. Next week is a relatively busy work week for me.and then....FIRSTclearly he must be scum, town wouldn't be this excited to get into the game. ;)
back to something game related.... WOAH:I don't know Dynasty Warriors, so mass-claiming flavor names will not really help me. However, it could be really useful to certain PR town members (Robz?) as they make decisions for night actions. I like flavor name claiming.
I am Zhuge LiangAshersky was Zhuge Liang, a Vanilla Townie
...what does this mean? is he obvscum? could two people have the same name? did I just out him as VT? is he IC?
I think I'll stop my reread there for now...
because he confirmed that he is zhuge liang right away. as scum he might not post until mcmc either confirms or changes the flip, and if it turns out ash was really zhuge liang he might claim to have misread his PM, he was really --insert similarly spelled name here--
hmmm, so maybe not. if he was scum and this was his fakeclaim, I think he'd be more likely to question mcmc about this during the night, 'umm, I thought nobody else would have my fakeclaim'... and also if mcmc made the mistake it pretty much confirms that there is a zhuge liang in the game, and it has to be e otherwise someone would counterclaim.
assuming ash is really zhang fei:
let's assume that e is scum for a minute. the name zhuge liang is certainly town, right? he's in one of the two town factions that are fighting the scum together, right robz? zhuge liang is surely his mod-provided fakeclaim then, right? So there is no real zhuge liang in the game. e has his real scum flavor name. if e is scum, then mcmc flipped a flavor name that isn't in the game at all. And, if e is scum, that means he saw ash flip his mod-provided fakeclaim. Surely he would have contacted mcmc regarding this and it would have been fixed during the night, right? as town it's easy to forget your flavorname, I don't know mine off the top of my head right now. Scum who have already used the name to fakeclaim on the other hand... less so I think.
That's why I think that e most likely is really zhuge liang, and so he's likely town.
also can someone summarize the whole liopoil thing in regard to 2.7's flavor for me. I missed that in real time and kinda glossed over it, but it appears that some seem to think it has real implications. I would greatly appreciate a summary.
lio noticed that ash flipped with e's claimed flavor name. He requested that e answer/double-check/explain this. But before e could, we all worked out the possible options and concluded that mod error was the likeliest, and that this was most likely to mean e is town (lio agreed/said this himself).
So if he were scum, why did he point this out to create a pseudo-IC? (which is what would have happened to e since this was prior to Lekkit's claim).
2. up until you said you had something to claim you played it perfect, but after that.... I think you gave away too much there and perhaps allowed mafia to formulate a response about 2.7 and voltaire that would correspond to them anticipating your results. Here is my thought process.... what role would be worth claiming about with information about 2 players that we could possibly have? Not any of the protective (Doc, JK), Tracker either is a positive result or an ambiguous result like chairs had on ashersky, the killing roles have no results to give out, and our rolecop is dead and gunsmith maybe you had results... but the hider claim was so much more likely that I think you totally gave your hand away when you said you had results to claim.... because if I as town saw it, I am sure that mafia also saw it. So I think in looking back at this we should see if we can spot anyone who tried to create reads on voltaire/2.7 that anticipated a hider claim from lekkit... Thoughts?
So I am not saying liopoil is scummy, nor am I so sure he should be today's lynch, but I do see a narrative where someone as scum could anticipate 2.7 being given quasi-IC status and then during the reread pointing this out because it was going to happen anyways... see what i mean?
So I am not saying liopoil is scummy, nor am I so sure he should be today's lynch, but I do see a narrative where someone as scum could anticipate 2.7 being given quasi-IC status and then during the reread pointing this out because it was going to happen anyways... see what i mean?
Mmmmmmmmmmm...but that requires sitting on the mistake, only whipping it out when Lekkit claims. And it's not like lio started out with a conclusion (e is town! look at how right I am!) It doesn't make lio conf!town, but it takes him out of my lynch pool today, I think. Because I need to find reasons to eliminate people, and this is the best reason for taking someone out today I think.
I agree with you there, that he probably isn't the lynch for today--barring something egregious--but what do you think of the concept liopoil aside? That mafia was likely aware of what was coming from lekkit?
I agree with you there, that he probably isn't the lynch for today--barring something egregious--but what do you think of the concept liopoil aside? That mafia was likely aware of what was coming from lekkit?
Yeah, probably. I do agree with that. What conclusions do you draw from it? Who looks good, who looks bad?
Plus, E has too many reasons explaining why scum killed eevee, clearly has been thinking about who scum should kill a lot.
Current reads:So I was pretty wrong there. But I don't think all the way wrong
Would lynch: Robz, Ichimaru, Ashersky
Would lynch on the 2nd before deadline: Chairs, liopoil
Would take some persuading, but might vote for them: mail-mi, Teproc, Lekkit
Not interested in lynching today: Yuma, Voltaire
I was really disappointed with the mod error, as it does create a pretty strong case (along with the Lekkit result) that I am town.
checking in, will be back with more tomorrow. I see there's been a fair bit of discussion about me, is there anything specific you would like me to address now?
Look at the final vote count of yesterday. Assuming we believe lekkit, all of the ash wagon is conf!town except us two. Everyone else except Teproc is voting for Teproc. That means, from my perspective at least, that at least one of his buddies was bussing him yesterday if he is scum, two buddies if you are town as well.@Robz : Just joking, I saw liopoil and Voltaire saying that I was unlikely to be scum because of the way the wagons broke down so I figured I'd comment on it.
Yep, I'm asking them to clarify.
lio has helped give out town reads (narrow lynch pool). You have helped keep the lynch pool open (widened lynch pool).
lio has helped give out town reads (narrow lynch pool). You have helped keep the lynch pool open (widened lynch pool).
How so ? I've given town reads on lio and Robz.
Maybe you're referring to my resistance to making 2.7 an IC out of the whole Zhuge Liang flip thing, although you guys eventually convinced me on that point (which didn't end up mattering since Lekkit claimed), but otherwise that is an unfair assessment of my play.
I would like everyone to state if they're cool with lynching Robz.very cool
Plus, E has too many reasons explaining why scum killed eevee, clearly has been thinking about who scum should kill a lot.
This is a horrible line of thinking.
I'm re-reading lio, and he's pretty scummy. Crap.
I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.Before I've read anything else
I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"
I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.
I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)
I would like everyone to read this: YES.
I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)
Can you give reasons for your scum reads?
My scumminess reads:
Voltaire
liopoil
faust
chairs
ash
You know what, I bet neither liopoil nor mail-mi flip scum, they're just too easy.
Let's try semi-random last minute lynch again. Vote: Lekkit, an un-scrutinized lurker.
I'll happily lynch Eevee, mail-mi, or liopoil. I would also lynch Lekkit.
I don't think we should lynch chairs today. I see where you are coming from, 2.7, but this sort of thing seems to backfire on town mostly.
Vote: 2.7 I will be around at deadline and an hour or two before deadline, and will move to Eevee, liopoil, faust, or mail-mi, or faust if necessary. I actually like the faust lynch even more now since if it's wrong, he could shoot 2.7. I don't want him to shoot ashersky, if ash is wrong about faust he's wrong, whatever, town ash has bad early reads and is brashly overconfident all the time. Shoot 2.7, faust!
I'm only going to vote for faust, 2.7, or Eevee.
Mail-mi: Someone wants to lynch mail-mi, I think? Voltaire, yes? Maybe yuma? Do you still? Why?
Goko is actually powered by Forum Games posts. Recent server issues are entirely due to those gerbils not being active enough in their mafia games, damn it.
Town: Lekkit, 2.7, Voltaire - Totally believe the claim
mild town: Yuma
mild scum: Robz, Teproc
Stronger scum: Ichimaru, liopoil, mail-mi
liopoil up next.
can we just lynch robz now?
Uh, I'm behind. Sorry, I know that's not helping, and I'm not helping. Is there something I should do, or answer, other than re-read and give reads?
responses to points/cases against you would be most beneficialcan i have a full case to respond to? because i don't see one.
focusing on those last two (re-read and reads) followed up by responses to points/cases against you would be most beneficial in that order....can i have a full case to respond to? because i don't see one.
responses to points/cases against you would be most beneficialcan i have a full case to respond to? because i don't see one.
vote: mail-mi
responses to points/cases against you would be most beneficialcan i have a full case to respond to? because i don't see one.
And this is a great move for scum. "case? what case? I haven't done anything wrong...."
I agree that most likely both are scum, but the way I see it Robz is more likely. You just never know for sure with mail-mi I think. At least, I never get too confident with him. I've horribly misread him both ways before.responses to points/cases against you would be most beneficialcan i have a full case to respond to? because i don't see one.
And this is a great move for scum. "case? what case? I haven't done anything wrong...."
This is a good point.
I'll vote: mail-mi right now, but I may move it depending on his reaction or robz's reaction once both/either of them catch up. but I really think it doesn't matter which one we lynch first as I kinda expect they are both scum.
lio, what do you think of the fact that (I assume you believe yourself to be town) mail-mi only voted and targeted town members D1 and D2?yes i had terrible reads this game. I, as scum, would know that this would be looked back on as scummy, and would have voted for a partner OR not killed all the town I've voted for.
All right, what are we doing here.
We have 9 people. 3 scum. Lekkit, myself, and Voltaire are quasi-IC based on believing Lekkit. I think one of the scum is mail-mi. Liopoil thinks one of the scum is Robz. Those are the top two lynch choices right now it seems like.
Could everyone put down a summary of your thoughts on each of those two people? We need something to at least start discussion back up. Stalling out is 1) in scum's favor and 2) not very fun.
All right, what are we doing here.
We have 9 people. 3 scum. Lekkit, myself, and Voltaire are quasi-IC based on believing Lekkit. I think one of the scum is mail-mi. Liopoil thinks one of the scum is Robz. Those are the top two lynch choices right now it seems like.
Could everyone put down a summary of your thoughts on each of those two people? We need something to at least start discussion back up. Stalling out is 1) in scum's favor and 2) not very fun.
I think most of us have thoughts down already and we are waiting for robz and mail-mi to respond and re-read and give reads.... until that happens we are going to be at a standstill....
lio, what do you think of the fact that (I assume you believe yourself to be town) mail-mi only voted and targeted town members D1 and D2?yes i had terrible reads this game. I, as scum, would know that this would be looked back on as scummy, and would have voted for a partner OR not killed all the town I've voted for.
I will happily lynch Robz or mail-mi. I honestly don't know which I prefer. Let me think about it.
yuma/Voltaire, why do you think of Robz's reaction to the faust claim ? Obviously you disagree with my analysis, but I'm curious why.
I'll be getting to this tomorrow for real. Between lack of sleep and the forums being down, I haven't really felt up to this.
yuma/Voltaire, why do you think of Robz's reaction to the faust claim ? Obviously you disagree with my analysis, but I'm curious why.
Honestly strange ie townie. That requires me to think that there was no scum on ash, though (because I'm currently operating as though lio is town), which is...possible I guess. Actually who pointed out mail-mi's horribly scummy attitude about ash? Said was town, then thought scummy, never voted, was off-wagon? mail-mi first I say.
vote: mail-mi. That's L-1 everyone.
Why would scum know they'd have to bus last night ? The lynch pool was much larger at the start of the day than it is now.
Of course NOW they know they pretty much have to bus. But I doubt they planned it at all.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
2.7... (1): Robz
Eevee (3): 2.7..., faust, Teproc
liopoil (1): chairs
faust (7): ashersky, Lekkit, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin, yuma, Eevee, mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Voltaire
Day 2 Final Vote Count
ashersky (6): Robz, Voltaire, Lekkit, Liopoil, 2.71828, ashersky
Teproc (4): Ichimaru Gin, chairs, mail-mi, yuma
Not Voting (1): teproc
Why would scum know they'd have to bus last night ? The lynch pool was much larger at the start of the day than it is now.
Of course NOW they know they pretty much have to bus. But I doubt they planned it at all.
Yes, this. Scum came into today thinking they were golden.
Why would scum know they'd have to bus last night ? The lynch pool was much larger at the start of the day than it is now.
Of course NOW they know they pretty much have to bus. But I doubt they planned it at all.
Yes, this. Scum came into today thinking they were golden.
Which means there would be very little risk in lio risking creating an IC. Since this was before Lekkit.
I don't follow ?
Meaning : I don't understand what you're saying here. Why does liopoil looks scummy when considering scum didn't know about the reduced lynch pool going into day 3 ?
I'm Xiaqiao. Town Hider. I've hid behind 2.7 and Voltaire. In that order. They are both town.Okay. Between this and mod error, I think e is town now.
The 23rd? Wow, I should post now. Im in the same boat as teproc with my caught up-ness.
Wel anyway.... Lynch order:
E>>>>>>>liopoil>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ash.
this is just normal ash.
Okay, I have re-read.
Vote: Mail-mi, because he is the most scummy suspect, and because I am the alternative lynch.
Uh, that was the hammer right ?
Uh, that was the hammer right ?
And scummy as **** if mail-mi flips town, so hopefully it was Robz hammering his partner in an attempt at cred.
Uh, that was the hammer right ?
And scummy as **** if mail-mi flips town, so hopefully it was Robz hammering his partner in an attempt at cred.
Don't I know it, but I can't really taker the chance that you change your mind and switch everyone to me. You've flip flopped already on that.
I mean, it would be awesome if he did that, but the risk would have been way too high so it's unlikely.
I did not gamble the whole outcome of the game. I did not hide.
Also, how is it important that I'm alive?
And this is why I didn't want to lynch mail-mi. I thought he was scum, but like I said, you can never be sure with mail-mi. Also, robz is scum.
Uh, that was the hammer right ?
And scummy as **** if mail-mi flips town, so hopefully it was Robz hammering his partner in an attempt at cred.
Don't I know it, but I can't really taker the chance that you change your mind and switch everyone to me. You've flip flopped already on that.
If you're town, you did the right thing, yes.
Guys, robz is super obvscum. we can't not lynch him today. I'm tempted to vote now, but I'll hold off.
I'm going to be making that vote eventually, and I'd rather it be now so that somebody doesn't go and vote for one of those three people.
can we just lynch robz now?
I am also very wary of Robz. His reads are really good as town as far as I can tell (especially based on my experience in Chocolate Factory). I just don't know what to think about Robz right now after his hammer.
isn't it still possible that we have PRs?? heck, we could have a SK! We could have two more PRs!
so no, flavorclaim still isn't worth it.
isn't it still possible that we have PRs?? heck, we could have a SK! We could have two more PRs!
so no, flavorclaim still isn't worth it.
This is ridiculous. There is no way (well, not mathematically impossible, but I mean, it just isnt that case) we have two more PRs, and the simple fact that liopoil thinks this makes me think he is much scummier
isn't it still possible that we have PRs?? heck, we could have a SK! We could have two more PRs!
so no, flavorclaim still isn't worth it.
This is ridiculous. There is no way (well, not mathematically impossible, but I mean, it just isnt that case) we have two more PRs, and the simple fact that liopoil thinks this makes me think he is much scummier
This was my argument against flavour claiming day 1. Based on flips so far, it is clear that PRs are not distinguishable from VTs.Is it? show me.
Robz, do the flavor names we've gotten from flips so far confirm that flavor isn't indicative of PRness ?
I think, basically yes, flavor doesn't tell us much. I mean these characters are all generals in a war, they can all be vageuly rationalized in one way or another, like, "Oh, he kept his army safe--Doctor! Oh, he led an ambush unit, Hider!" Pang Tong feigned defection to Cao Cao's forces and advised him to chain his ships together, ostensibly to prevent seasickness but actually because this made it easier or the fire attack to destroy Cao Cao's navy. in our game he's the Tracker so... yeah I not much of a connection, it seems to me.
It's also certainly true that important flavor role does not equal PR. Or else Ash/Zhuge Liang would have been one.
I'm Xiaqiao. Town Hider. I've hid behind 2.7 and Voltaire. In that order. They are both town.
My mistake. Xiao Qiao is the wife of Zhou Yu, who is Commander-in-Chief of the Wu forces. Her twin sister is Da Qiao. They are known througout the land for their beauty.
Xiao Qiao knew Cao Cao, evil ruler of Wei, when they were both children. Legend states that he was still in love with her, and wished to take her and her sister back to his city after the battle, and put lock them inside a tower.
In the novel, Zhuge Liang, the Shu strategist, tricked Zhou Yu into supporting the war against Cao Cao by telling him that Cao Cao desired his wife, Xiao Qiao. From that moment on, Zhou Yu sweared that either he would die, or Cao Cao would die.
I'm not sure I see Hider in there anyway, but Xiao Qiao is more a Hider than a Role Cop or something, I guess.
That smiley was unintentional. Don't lynch me Robz !don't worry, he can't, he and his scumbuddies only have 3 votes, it takes 4 to lynch. However, you can lynch robz!
That smiley was unintentional. Don't lynch me Robz !don't worry, he can't, he and his scumbuddies only have 3 votes, it takes 4 to lynch. However, you can lynch robz!
can we just lynch robz now?
everyone has posted, so I'm assuming no more PR claims today... I see no reason to prolong the day except to get reads from lekkit and e. Maybe other people too, though I doubt anyone besides e or lekkit will be dying tonight.
You are... those above and then a few more that aren't saying "vote Robz" but are certainly implying that you really want people to.... And part of what I want to figure out before we lynch is whether or not you are overly excited town or Robz's partner going for towncred trying to be the ultimate busser
You are... those above and then a few more that aren't saying "vote Robz" but are certainly implying that you really want people to.... And part of what I want to figure out before we lynch is whether or not you are overly excited town or Robz's partner going for towncred trying to be the ultimate busser
That's your concern ? I don't really care if he's a busser, we can figure that out later. The real concern is that he's enthusiastic scum pushing for a winning mislynch.
I guess it's not as big a concern when you're scum and you know Robz is as well. And you're more preoccupied with painting suspicious townies (note : not actually certain liopoil is town, but that's my guess right now) as bussers.
I didn't misread your post. My point still stands that you are putting emphasis on liopoil's alignment and that your concerns are not that of a town member at lylo.
I didn't misread your post. My point still stands that you are putting emphasis on liopoil's alignment and that your concerns are not that of a town member at lylo.
What?
liopoil is pushing for Robz's lynch. This can mean one of three things :
- both are scum and liopoil wants credit for bussing his partner energetically
- liopoil is scum and really wants to win right now
- liopoil is town and thinks he found scum
In your post above, you are putting emphasis on 1 and 3. If you were town, 2 would be your biggest concern.
I didn't misread your post. My point still stands that you are putting emphasis on liopoil's alignment and that your concerns are not that of a town member at lylo.
What?
I shouldn't be concerned about discerning liopoil's or ichimaru's alignment? Is that what you are saying? I didn't do a reread of them yesterday and not doing one would be a failure of due diligence to make sure that I don't want to lynch one of them today instead of Robz...
I think that my results will indicate that Robz will be my preferred lynch, but I am not going to definitvely say that until I have done what i need to do! And nothing you say to paint me in a scummy light is going to detract me from doing it!
liopoil is pushing for Robz's lynch. This can mean one of three things :
- both are scum and liopoil wants credit for bussing his partner energetically
- liopoil is scum and really wants to win right now
- liopoil is town and thinks he found scum
In your post above, you are putting emphasis on 1 and 3. If you were town, 2 would be your biggest concern.
I never said that or even implied it. You are putting words into my mouth.
You are... those above and then a few more that aren't saying "vote Robz" but are certainly implying that you really want people to.... And part of what I want to figure out before we lynch is whether or not you are overly excited town or Robz's partner going for towncred trying to be the ultimate busser
Although even semi-IC's can obviously be wrong, I generally trust their reads over the people in the lynch pool--as we know the majority of them to be scum. I think e's been doing a pretty good job of staying active, but Lekkit is still lurking.
Teproc and Robz are my top scumreads right now. Awhile ago, Teproc mentioned the lack of suspicion on Yuma, I find Yuma scummy for this.
Yuma is interesting, just because I feel like he's passed almost completely under everyone's radar. Is someone working on forming a case against him?
Meaning : you act as if Robz's alignement was a foregone conclusion, which it's not. I do think he is scum, but you act as if you KNOW he is scum.
Although even semi-IC's can obviously be wrong, I generally trust their reads over the people in the lynch pool--as we know the majority of them to be scum. I think e's been doing a pretty good job of staying active, but Lekkit is still lurking.
Teproc and Robz are my top scumreads right now. Awhile ago, Teproc mentioned the lack of suspicion on Yuma, I find Yuma scummy for this.
Yuma is interesting, just because I feel like he's passed almost completely under everyone's radar. Is someone working on forming a case against him?
We haven't discussed Ichi too much, but I find this post just a little off. A little buddying with Lekkit and myself. Then a weird reason for finding Yuma scummy, then saying there is no case against him and he has flown under the radar. It just doesn't really seem right to me. I think Ichimaru is scum.
PPE:4
If he is scum I could see him as partners with: robz and possibly mail-mi. Not ichimaru I am thinking.... didn't see much interaction with liopoil....
PPE : 2.7, have you thought about a massclaim ? Like the flavour claim, it has a pretty high chance of being useless, but I think it's worth doing in the off chance it isn't.
You think Robz is scum, yes. So do I. But, again, you act as if that was a certainty, which it is not, not if you are town at least.
PPE : I'm sorry you feel that way, but I don't think I'm being unreasonable here. I just think your reasoning is not that of a town member in lylo.
From your reread of Teproc:If he is scum I could see him as partners with: robz and possibly mail-mi. Not ichimaru I am thinking.... didn't see much interaction with liopoil....
Why do you not see Teproc as Ichimaru's partner? Or is this part of the post out-dated (it is like a week old) and you no longer draw that conclusion?
Could everyone put who they think the 3 scum are? I have some thoughts on this as well but if everyone doesn't mind I would prefer to wait until everyone else has put out this list.
yuma - the first thing you quoted is not urging Teproc to vote for robz now. It is saying he should lynch robz. which means voting for him, eventually.
The second one, I suppose is a bit like that. So sure, people shouldn't listen to that and vote before they are ready, though I doubt anyone would anyway.
No, I'm not certain robz is scum, I'm confident enough that there's no way I'm going to be changing my mind. I'm going to be voting for robz eventually, and so if robz is town scum wins no matter what anyway. If in GoT you were going to be voting voltaire eventually, it didn't matter that you voted earlier. If somehow robz is town and scum wins, the blame should be on me getting it terribly wrong, not on me voting prematurely.
e: hasn't given a definitive answer, but seems like ichimaru and robz are probably his top scumreads.
Can we get a prod on Lekkit?
Also, scum has not quickhammered, so this pretty much confirms for me that robz is scum. while all three haven't been online at the same time, I would expect a slow-mo quickhammer of sorts
I did say that I doubt it would be an actual quickhammer, but a slower hammer instead. And it confirms FOR ME that robz is scum I said, because I know I'm town. And I do not expect any towncred when robz flips scum and will not be giving towncred to others who suspect robz. Robz was almost certainly going down today anyway. No, when robz flips scum I will be looking at his interactions with players on the first 3 days.Also, scum has not quickhammered, so this pretty much confirms for me that robz is scum. while all three haven't been online at the same time, I would expect a slow-mo quickhammer of sorts
I disagree that it means anything. A 3-person quickhammer seems pretty hard to pull off without daychat. ALso, it could mena that you are scum. And I don't like that you are trying to make this you v Robz. Scum bussing would do exactly that I think, to get more towncred from Robz flipping scum.
Liopoil is doing scum endgame tactics.Robz is doing scum AtE
yuma - the first thing you quoted is not urging Teproc to vote for robz now. It is saying he should lynch robz. which means voting for him, eventually.
The second one, I suppose is a bit like that. So sure, people shouldn't listen to that and vote before they are ready, though I doubt anyone would anyway.
I agree with you, but when you say something over and over again it adds a sense of urgency to it you must admit yes? And as I am in a position with my personal life where I am not capable of being urgent I want to put the brakes down a bit.
Liopoil is doing scum endgame tactics.Robz is doing scum AtE
Possibly, this is just liopoil telling one of his partners to go for the quickhammer, and his partner, yuma, saying no way man, we got this in the bag anyway.If I am really scum than I have just 2 buddies and can't quickhammer robz. I think robz just gave himself away some more here^^yuma - the first thing you quoted is not urging Teproc to vote for robz now. It is saying he should lynch robz. which means voting for him, eventually.
The second one, I suppose is a bit like that. So sure, people shouldn't listen to that and vote before they are ready, though I doubt anyone would anyway.
I agree with you, but when you say something over and over again it adds a sense of urgency to it you must admit yes? And as I am in a position with my personal life where I am not capable of being urgent I want to put the brakes down a bit.
Appeal to Emotion... right?Liopoil is doing scum endgame tactics.Robz is doing scum AtE
What is AtE?
Appeal to Emotion... right?What is AtE?Liopoil is doing scum endgame tactics.Robz is doing scum AtE
Yeah. I'm wondering if there's even a small chance of lynching anyone but Robz today.nevermind, Ichimaru is scummier than teproc, for sure. Robz is still his #1 scumread it seems, if teproc and I are 2 and 3, yet he is clearly trying to lynch teproc or I.
Liopoil has become a lot more scummy to me. So he's actually moved up to #2 with Teproc at #3 as my top scumreads.
At any rate, it will be good to hear from everyone about the Robz lynch, so when he (most hopefully) flips scum. We'll have more to analyze. And if he flips town, well it won't really matter then.
I am willing to vote for Teproc and Liopoil--but I don't see any interest there right now.
The most important thing is--we need to really, really, make sure that Robz is scum! We can't afford another mislynch. Liopoil seems very confident about this, but how can he be that sure? I think he's bussing, or scum is overjoyed that it looks almost certain that we're going to lynch town!Robz today.
Uh, I think the case against you, liopoil, is just a bit more sophisticated than that. It's not just that "you're lurking." Lots of people are lurking for various reasons. I've actually had very little time for this game, so.
The case against you is that, well you're low post count and not much content. AND I think this is something scum liopoil does on Day 1. I remember in Toy Story Mafia wishing you could have a little bit more meatier content on Day 1, worrying that you could and should be the obvious lynch on "lynch the lurker whose posts are most strained to be contributions" basis.
Later, I think you did really get into the game and do a great job. And I think as town, even when you are a lurker, it's not quite like this.
So, e, you're not willing to vote for Robz, and IIRC not for yuma either ?
Ugh. Not sure how we do this then.
Robz, you do realize the only way you can be quickhammered is if we are both town? it takes 4 to lynch. there are 3 scum. They need a townie to vote for a townie to be able to quickhammer.
Robz, you do realize the only way you can be quickhammered is if we are both town? it takes 4 to lynch. there are 3 scum. They need a townie to vote for a townie to be able to quickhammer.Yeah. I'm wondering if there's even a small chance of lynching anyone but Robz today.nevermind, Ichimaru is scummier than teproc, for sure. Robz is still his #1 scumread it seems, if teproc and I are 2 and 3, yet he is clearly trying to lynch teproc or I.
Liopoil has become a lot more scummy to me. So he's actually moved up to #2 with Teproc at #3 as my top scumreads.
At any rate, it will be good to hear from everyone about the Robz lynch, so when he (most hopefully) flips scum. We'll have more to analyze. And if he flips town, well it won't really matter then.
I am willing to vote for Teproc and Liopoil--but I don't see any interest there right now.
The most important thing is--we need to really, really, make sure that Robz is scum! We can't afford another mislynch. Liopoil seems very confident about this, but how can he be that sure? I think he's bussing, or scum is overjoyed that it looks almost certain that we're going to lynch town!Robz today.
I'm calling it now then, scumteam is Ichimaru Gin, yuma, and robz.
So, e, you're not willing to vote for Robz, and IIRC not for yuma either ?
Ugh. Not sure how we do this then.
I might vote Robz, but I think Liopoil is scummier between Robz/Lio, and while it is not necessarily town/scum here, I think that if Lio flips scum Robz is much less likely to be scum
You say you are willing to vote for me or teproc, and don't even mention robz as a scumread. You are urging people to be cautious about robz, because you just need 1 townie to vote for a townie and you win.Robz, you do realize the only way you can be quickhammered is if we are both town? it takes 4 to lynch. there are 3 scum. They need a townie to vote for a townie to be able to quickhammer.Yeah. I'm wondering if there's even a small chance of lynching anyone but Robz today.nevermind, Ichimaru is scummier than teproc, for sure. Robz is still his #1 scumread it seems, if teproc and I are 2 and 3, yet he is clearly trying to lynch teproc or I.
Liopoil has become a lot more scummy to me. So he's actually moved up to #2 with Teproc at #3 as my top scumreads.
At any rate, it will be good to hear from everyone about the Robz lynch, so when he (most hopefully) flips scum. We'll have more to analyze. And if he flips town, well it won't really matter then.
I am willing to vote for Teproc and Liopoil--but I don't see any interest there right now.
The most important thing is--we need to really, really, make sure that Robz is scum! We can't afford another mislynch. Liopoil seems very confident about this, but how can he be that sure? I think he's bussing, or scum is overjoyed that it looks almost certain that we're going to lynch town!Robz today.
I'm calling it now then, scumteam is Ichimaru Gin, yuma, and robz.
How am I clearly trying to lynch Teproc or you? Robz was my top scumread , but not by much. I haven't voted for anyone yet, but that's cause I don't want a quickhammer--and I think Lekkit and e need to have time to post.
This reeks of misdirection instead of actually addressing the points I made against you.
1. that you seem overly sure that Robz is scum
2. that it seemed that you were pushing for a quick lynch earlier today.
You are now my top scumread.
Well, I do agree that yuma is scum, but we run into the same problem that e doesn't really like his lynch either.
Well, I do agree that yuma is scum, but we run into the same problem that e doesn't really like his lynch either.
Yeah, well I don't always have the best reads (more the opposite). And if I eventually am convinced that Robz is town, then I really think that Yuma might in fact be scum
You say you are willing to vote for me or teproc, and don't even mention robz as a scumread. You are urging people to be cautious about robz, because you just need 1 townie to vote for a townie and you win.Robz, you do realize the only way you can be quickhammered is if we are both town? it takes 4 to lynch. there are 3 scum. They need a townie to vote for a townie to be able to quickhammer.Yeah. I'm wondering if there's even a small chance of lynching anyone but Robz today.nevermind, Ichimaru is scummier than teproc, for sure. Robz is still his #1 scumread it seems, if teproc and I are 2 and 3, yet he is clearly trying to lynch teproc or I.
Liopoil has become a lot more scummy to me. So he's actually moved up to #2 with Teproc at #3 as my top scumreads.
At any rate, it will be good to hear from everyone about the Robz lynch, so when he (most hopefully) flips scum. We'll have more to analyze. And if he flips town, well it won't really matter then.
I am willing to vote for Teproc and Liopoil--but I don't see any interest there right now.
The most important thing is--we need to really, really, make sure that Robz is scum! We can't afford another mislynch. Liopoil seems very confident about this, but how can he be that sure? I think he's bussing, or scum is overjoyed that it looks almost certain that we're going to lynch town!Robz today.
I'm calling it now then, scumteam is Ichimaru Gin, yuma, and robz.
How am I clearly trying to lynch Teproc or you? Robz was my top scumread , but not by much. I haven't voted for anyone yet, but that's cause I don't want a quickhammer--and I think Lekkit and e need to have time to post.
This reeks of misdirection instead of actually addressing the points I made against you.
1. that you seem overly sure that Robz is scum
2. that it seemed that you were pushing for a quick lynch earlier today.
You are now my top scumread.
as for those two things:
1: he is obvscum, so I yes, I am pretty sure he is scum.
2: I thought this would be clear to everyone and we would all agree to lynch robz pretty quickly and have not need to spend time laboring over this. As scum why would I ever do that out loud, why in the world would ICs listen to me who objectively has a 3/5 chance of being scum. No, I doubted convincing was neccessary, hence why I didn't make a case. Maybe I will now though.
Liopoil you are wrong!this really shouldn't be convincing at all to me. It is though.
Deadline: Monday, January 19th at 8 pm
Liopoil is doing scum endgame tactics.
And I'm starting to think you might be the other townie...in the space of just over half an hour.
oh shoot.Deadline: Monday, January 19th at 8 pm
That date is wrong. January 19 was Sunday, and yesterday. When is the deadline?
From this:Liopoil is doing scum endgame tactics.
To this:And I'm starting to think you might be the other townie...in the space of just over half an hour.
PPE: You're fine with robz being the lynch today even though I'm your top scumread now? if getting it right is so important (it is) then shouldn't you be only okay with me being the lynch?
Since I know I'm town, I have a 3/5 chance of hitting scum.
Since I know I'm town, I have a 3/5 chance of hitting scum.
It would actually be a 3/4 shot if you were indeed town, which I do not believe.
Since I know I'm town, I have a 3/5 chance of hitting scum.
It would actually be a 3/4 shot if you were indeed town, which I do not believe.
No. You're right. Which makes liopoil's comment even more scummy in my mind.
Since I know I'm town, I have a 3/5 chance of hitting scum.
It would actually be a 3/4 shot if you were indeed town, which I do not believe.
No. You're right. Which makes liopoil's comment even more scummy in my mind.
Why is liopoil scummier for his comment because of this? Simply PoE?
You're fine with robz being the lynch today even though I'm your top scumread now? if getting it right is so important (it is) then shouldn't you be only okay with me being the lynch?
so lemme get this straight: we should be really careful who we lynch, but in the end it really doesn't matter to you who we lynch as long as it isn't you or yuma? so why are you telling people to be cautious and to consider voting me or teproc instead?
PPE: You're fine with robz being the lynch today even though I'm your top scumread now? if getting it right is so important (it is) then shouldn't you be only okay with me being the lynch?
Yeah. Cause at this point, I'm pretty sure Robz is scum too.
Since I know I'm town, I have a 3/5 chance of hitting scum.
As long as we lynch one of my top 3 scumreads today. I feel that the odds are pretty good.
Why would only have one person I would consider lynching, when I know there are 3 scum--and I have a pretty good feeling who they are?
PPE: 2
so lemme get this straight: we should be really careful who we lynch, but in the end it really doesn't matter to you who we lynch as long as it isn't you or yuma? so why are you telling people to be cautious and to consider voting me or teproc instead?
PPE: You're fine with robz being the lynch today even though I'm your top scumread now? if getting it right is so important (it is) then shouldn't you be only okay with me being the lynch?
Yeah. Cause at this point, I'm pretty sure Robz is scum too.
Since I know I'm town, I have a 3/5 chance of hitting scum.
As long as we lynch one of my top 3 scumreads today. I feel that the odds are pretty good.
Why would only have one person I would consider lynching, when I know there are 3 scum--and I have a pretty good feeling who they are?
PPE: 2
but no, we shouldn't just lynch one of your three scumreads. You should want to lynch your strongest scumread. For sure. Even if they are close in how confident you are. Like you yourself said, we have to get this right, so we should pick the player which gives us the best chance of getting it right.
You can't say that we need to be really careful and make sure that we're sure that the player we lynch is scum and then go on to say that since all of the other players have a 75% chance of being scum we can just pick one and have good chances. No, we should pick the player who has an even better than 75% chance of being scum. (based on reads)
And yeah, 3/4, and you thinking it's 3/5 is another reason to suspect you. I said 3/5 because that was from the views of the ICs.
I think everyone should make a short post with their top scum-read. And we'll see where we stand.
I'll start.
Liopoil
Lying town is not really a possibility.hehe... (note, this isn't part of the reread, just had to post this)
liopoil- I like his response to the case brought against him by yuma. Looking back I don't really feel like lynching him all too much, but if we need a lynch I might be persuaded to vote him on the 2nd. I also think he has an interesting point about Robz.- when chairs claims tracker he immediately throws a quote from DS9 as a reason to not necessarily trust chairs. He doesn't want to full out disbelieve him, because that won't work, just wants to discredit him a bit I think here, so he can push the ash lynch through.
In fact, Robz? Here is some stuff on him- Opens up the liopoil case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326230#msg326230) that "scum!lio struggles early but plays better late." Gets a bunch of sheep. He originally gives slight credence (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326245#msg326245) to my Faust case, but then is turned off the case by Ashersky (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326952#msg326952). He throws out his vote for sale here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327093#msg327093) saying he is concerned about a bad D1. Jumps to Lekkit (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327098#msg327098) for a lurker lynch temporarily before realizing Lekkit wasn't really lurking just posting less frequently but still with content, then moves to Eevee as his lurker lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327107#msg327107) after I point out that Eevee is more of a lurker. Throws his vote out for sale again (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327368#msg327368). Has the whole episode of "wait no one post info about the setup because it might help scum!faust with a fakeclaim." (starting here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327447#msg327447)) He then jumps onto the little wagon against me for a bit here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327616#msg327616) before Faust reveals that he was lying about his fakeclaim. Robz then ends the day with his vote on me, after unvoting Faust to avoid ending the day before some people could comment. I recognize his "D1s are famously lacksadaisical" (to quote Ash from BM14 since he put it so nicely in the role PM) but putting his vote up for sale? twice? His D2 has not been great but no one has really stood out too much as being amazing, and I think he can probably (safely) trust that his meta will carry him through and avoid a lynch.
So this has been long and winding and a bunch of people posted while I was typing this, but I think it lands me at vote: Robz. I am not comfortable with the way he went through D1, and he has not done anything today to shake that feeling.
Lekkit's claim puts us back in the game... I think. We should not write him off as scum, though. I think he could have anticipated getting heat today--he was sort of the least scrutinized player--and planned to do this claim, probably along with ONE of his partners. (With zero of his partners would be pretty bad for the team, with TWO of the partners very nice if it pays off but probably risky.) With one, you know you're very likely to get the oher guy, a townie, on your side. I could see scum!Lekkit doing this if his partner is one of Voltaire/2.7 and then like, the least likely person to be lynched from the other pool, maybe yuma.he's now doubted all three of our PR claims
Well, okay, this would mean Voltaire or 2.7 would be scum. I do think 2.7 seems less likely to be scum because of the mod error, though, and Voltaire has been my strongest town read.
I mean, if Lekkit is scum, this move just won the game. But we might be in the position where we can't really afford to play like that's what happened, if we think it's the less likely thing. It's probably the less likely thing.
Okay, who does this leave? Yuma, mail-mi, Teproc, Ichimaru, liopoil... What a nicely smaller pool.
Uh, I'm behind. Sorry, I know that's not helping, and I'm not helping. Is there something I should do, or answer, other than re-read and give reads?his last post before the hammer. 12th at 3:46 pm. At the time there is one vote on mail-mi.
I am clearly overthinking this now. vote: mail-mi and I'm done for today, unless I need to change my vote to someone else we like.puts mail-mi at L-1. 13th at 1:09 pm.
Okay, I have re-read.25 minutes later he appears from nowhere, claims to have reread (not sure I trust this at all) and hammers. Super scummy. He was the only other option, and doing this puts his scumteam in great shape, just needing town to fail to lynch 3 scum in a row. I think he is pouncing on this opportunity as scum. As town, I think he'd at least state intent to hammer. Sure he wants to avoid the mislynch, but this just seems so much less plausible than him just being scum.
Vote: Mail-mi, because he is the most scummy suspect, and because I am the alternative lynch.
Voltaire, was killed in the night, he was Sun Quan, a vanilla townie.
Vote: Ichimaru GinO.o
Well, that's prety damning Robz. Also, the last few posts by Ichimaru and liopoil have me increasingly convinced that liopoil is the townie in that pairing.
Yeah, we should lynch Robz today, definitely.
Obviously you see that the pro-town thing for me to do, in my position, is to vote for anyone who has votes other than myself.
Yeah, quickhammer doesn't make sense. Even if Ichimaru is town, I don't think yuma is on anyway.
Probably a weird attempt at towncred, especially because it works with his defense for the mail-mi quickhammer. But I'll stop second-guessing myself, I'm sure enough now. Lekkit not having posted in forever is the only thing preventing me to vote Robz now.
If you're scum, Ichimaru is town I think.so, let's lynch Yuma first then?
Ahh, okay. So, Lekkit and E:
You have three options for lynch, robz, yuma, and ichimaru gin. Pick one, we'll sheep you.
Basically my only fear here...Basically my only fear here is that lekkit is scum. Oh wait, that's impossible. good. I guess Teproc could be scum. Yeah, that's my only fear.
What I saw was :
- yuma reread Robz yesterday and determined that he was scummy and was his biggest scum read of the game
- liopoil was pushing for Robz's lynch (it certainly read like you were asking me to vote now by the way)
- yuma saw that, and wondered if it meant that liopoil was excited town or just scum bussing. When I saw that, I wondered if it meant that liopoil was scum trying to win the game by lynching Robz. I'm town, so yuma having a very different reaction seemed scummy to me.
Maybe this is all wrong because town!yuma isn't paranoid as me in those situations (come to think of it, he certainly wasn't in GoT), but I don't think it's as ridiculous as yuma makes it sound.
What I saw was :
- yuma reread Robz yesterday and determined that he was scummy and was his biggest scum read of the game
- liopoil was pushing for Robz's lynch (it certainly read like you were asking me to vote now by the way)
- yuma saw that, and wondered if it meant that liopoil was excited town or just scum bussing. When I saw that, I wondered if it meant that liopoil was scum trying to win the game by lynching Robz. I'm town, so yuma having a very different reaction seemed scummy to me.
Maybe this is all wrong because town!yuma isn't paranoid as me in those situations (come to think of it, he certainly wasn't in GoT), but I don't think it's as ridiculous as yuma makes it sound.
But the part you are leaving out is what I added in italics above...
I was going to add more about this (and a lot to talk about below apparently), but time to watch Buffy with the wife so it will have to wait... Sorry.
Either way, any way, Yuma IS scum. He has to be. He is weirdly and totally uniquely STILL ducking serious involvement in this game. THIS IS NOT TOWN YUMA. This is scum yuma, who has been very very lucky. And has benefited from extreme personalities stealing all the focus, and me sitll being around to distract in the endgame.So, e, you're not willing to vote for Robz, and IIRC not for yuma either ?
Ugh. Not sure how we do this then.
I might vote Robz, but I think Liopoil is scummier between Robz/Lio, and while it is not necessarily town/scum here, I think that if Lio flips scum Robz is much less likely to be scum
Whoever the other town is, there is NO way it is yuma. You must all see that.
Deadline: Monday, January 19th at 8 pm
That date is wrong. January 19 was Sunday, and yesterday. When is the deadline?
Days Will last roughly 10 days each and Night will last roughly 2 days.
yuma wants to buddy me too? cool!
To robz and yuma: if you think I'm town, and you are also town, that means Teproc is scum. Why should I believe that Teproc is scum?
Either way, any way, Yuma IS scum. He has to be. He is weirdly and totally uniquely STILL ducking serious involvement in this game. THIS IS NOT TOWN YUMA. This is scum yuma, who has been very very lucky. And has benefited from extreme personalities stealing all the focus, and me sitll being around to distract in the endgame.So, e, you're not willing to vote for Robz, and IIRC not for yuma either ?
Ugh. Not sure how we do this then.
I might vote Robz, but I think Liopoil is scummier between Robz/Lio, and while it is not necessarily town/scum here, I think that if Lio flips scum Robz is much less likely to be scum
Whoever the other town is, there is NO way it is yuma. You must all see that.
You must all see that Robz is just spouting stuff out to show that I am scum without backing up any of it.
As far as I can tell Robz hasn't reread me. He hasn't said how I am acting weird. He has said that I am "ducking" serious involvement in this game which just plain pisses me off! I have had far more involvement in this game today than you have!
So mostly this is just Robz trying to get me lynched today instead of him for the win. I mean he hasn't done anything to actually show why I am mafia.... just said it over and over again. Compare to Chocolate Factory where he put a large amount of effort to show that Teproc and Voltaire were scum (along with saying it over and over again).
Serious question though, I want you both to try to convince me. Otherwise, I'm sticking with Teproc being the townie and you two and ichimaru are the scum. I don't ask ichimaru because he thinks I'm scum, and so might believe Teproc to be the townie.
Now... if liopoil is town, this means that the scum team is Ichimaru/Robz/Teproc. So two of those possibilities are bussing, but as long as Teproc can stay on liopoil's good side and not get himself lynched he is pretty golden. (although I saw that Teproc has mildly accused liopoil of doing the buddying instead... so that should at least be looked at closer).
Anther thing, I am convinced that it is GOOD to come under suspicion early if you are scum. For a scum person, the longer things go without you getting suspicion, the harder it will be to shake it when you DO get suspicion.- his reaction to ichimaru's vote was something of: "good point, I am lurking, I'll post more" and even kinda defended ichimaru from ashersky's policy vote.
I'm not sure what to think of Robz's hammer. It's scummy, but my previous arguments for his towniness still look valid to me. I have a bad gut feeling about yuma, but after mail-mi flipped town, I'm not sure what to think anymore.
Oh, and it case it wasn't obvious, we're in lylo. Quickhammering is difficult for scumand probably too risky but still, be careful with your votes.
liopoil is pushing for Robz's lynch. This can mean one of three things :this post doesn't directly defend Robz, but I think it is intended to make it look like my scum read on robz was not valid or to make me question it in someway...
- both are scum and liopoil wants credit for bussing his partner energetically
- liopoil is scum and really wants to win right now
- liopoil is town and thinks he found scum
In your post above, you are putting emphasis on 1 and 3. If you were town, 2 would be your biggest concern.
So, this tells us everyone wants to lynch Robz ? That's a little worrying, but with his super scummy hammer on mail-mi, it would make sense for the scum team to just bus him today. Although why even hammer mail-mi then ? I guess one for one trade is pretty good for scum at this point, especially if they know there are no PRs left (Lekkit is basically a VT now).
The thing is : are we really never going to lynch Robz in the next three days because of that ? I don't think so, so we might as well lynch him today and see if we lose right away.
I could vote Robz now but I guess I'll wait for Lekkit to show up and 2.7 to finish his reread.
Not being suspected can be scummy, but not for yuma. A lot of people give him day 1 passes, and he helped get the game going again on day 2.
Everyone being willing to lynch Robz is scaring me a little, but even if we lynch, say, yuma today, I'll want to lynch Robz next, so I guess we might as well just do it now (not literally) and see how it goes.
Before I go sleep : I'm really sorry to have upset you yuma, it wasn't my intention at all.
PPE : 2.7, have you thought about a massclaim ? Like the flavour claim, it has a pretty high chance of being useless, but I think it's worth doing in the off chance it isn't.
I believe most of that stems from their play on D2 and D3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg337132#msg337132) I guess? I need to go back and look at that interaction again, but right now I am comfortable thinking scum are Robz/Teproc/Ichimaru
Well if you look at it, basically what happens is that:
1. Teproc starts out with a mild scum read on Ichimaru day1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326354#msg326354) (doesn't vote) but puts some pressure on him (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg326469#msg326469) at a time when no one else does... this is rather null as it very well could be one scum mildly bussing the other (especially if Robz--who I think would be their partner in this scenario, as do you...--gave a pregame lecture about the importance of making sure they got some amount of pressure early, but that is purely conjecture I suppose... liopoil did Robz mention this idea in ToyStory as I am only remembering it from ModernCommunity) (just noticed this as I was rereading that toward the end of day teproc puts ichimaru in his won't lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg327226#msg327226) category despite the earlier scum read...
I'll be on a bit later today. I'm still alive, but have a lot on my plate right now.
Vote Count 4.0
ichimaru Gin (1): Robz888
Not Voting (6): teproc, Lekkit, 2.71828, yuma, ichimaru gin, liopoil
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline: Sunday, January 26th at 8 pm
Lekkit has beed prodded
Buddying didn't occur to me until I read your second post. Great to see lekkit post, even though we never prodded him I think. Can we please still have a vote count and deadline and stuff?
the one where you said "before anyone accuses me of buddying..."
Why do you think yuma is town again?
the one where you said "before anyone accuses me of buddying..."
yeah. Sounds like scum trying to get out in front of accusations.Why do you think yuma is town again?
I will work on getting an organized answer to that sometime tonight. I still need to cook/eat dinner first though, just checking in to see what happened after getting back home.
Lekkit posted! The thing I am most interested in is who he thinks scum is specifically between Ichi/Teproc and Robz/yuma or if either of those could be a pairing of scum. I am kind of persuaded by Yuma's case for Ichi/Teproc (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg337382#msg337382) not being scum together. I also don't necessarily see both robz and yuma being partners. (this is bad news for liopoil, who is kind of the odd man out here because then PoE says he is scum)
gah.this is a frustrated "gah!" but I get it and all lekkit.
I mean, that seems like the most reasonable solution to me. I know it kind of forces some things that might not have happened, but it does seem fair.
I can vote Ichi now but I thought you wanted to get more reads in before 2.7, correct ?
Actually it's probably making too many assumptions on the mafia's intentions.
Well, if we still have a night it won't be a perfect game anyway because that means we lynched scum.
Well, if we still have a night it won't be a perfect game anyway because that means we lynched scum.
It won't be a perfect game because we are about to go 3/3 on lynches
two on ichimaru, because robz is bussing that means that we actually don't need lekkit's vote to lynch ichimaru gin.
somehow I doubt mafia will NK lekkit. e is clearly a better NK choice, and while it lets the game continue it gives mafia a disadvantage they did nothing to deserve.
I don't either, but I do think Ichimaru and liopoil can't both be scum. Well they can, but I think it's the most unlikely pairing from my PoV.
Also liopoil's play has been quite townie all game.
Liopoil.Are you Xeiron?
Nono, that was a list of who the scum ARE.
Xeiron, if you're wondering how I know who the scum are, here's how:
There are three scum left. Players alive are:
Yuma: scumread
Robz: scumread
Ichimaru Gin: scumread
Teproc: townread
Liopoil: I know I'm town
2.7: must be town if xeiron is town, also, townread
xeiron: highly unlikely to be scum due to claim
So, yeah, POE. Plus reads, and it fits. Personally, I think we should lynch yuma or ichimaru first because if Teproc is scum than I think robz is the townie.
Conclusions:
I find Robz to fit as partners to everyone: teproc*, liopoil, ichimaru. I also have found his play to be scummy.
I find liopoil to be the towniest from play, but I can see him as partners with teproc, ichimaru and liopoil
Ichimaru I see as partners for liopoil and Robz, but not Teproc.
Teproc I see as partners for liopoil and Robz, but not Ichimaru.
So in the end I don't know if I really learned anything new. I think i just solidified that I think Robz is scum and that it would be extremely neglectful to not lynch him today. I don't know about the others unfortunately and fear that tomorrow and the next day may just end up being a crap shoot to hit the right two (although I think I am more confident about teproc than I am about liopoil or ichimaru based off some other stuff I want to mention in a later post as this one is getting long)
*most of my thoughts about teproc and robz are actually more based off earlier yesterday and today where teproc defended robz until basically a few hours ago... and day2 where robz defended teproc and instead pushed through the ashersky lynch.
I have been following the game pretty close since the start of D4, so I know where we are.
I have done a brief reread of the other days as well.
My impression from before subbing in was Robz, yuma and Ichimaru Gin as scum.
I am least sure about Ichimaru Gin, so I would prefer lynching one of the other two.
Then let's lynch yuma.
Are we ready to lynch someone now?
Or is there more talk to be done before voting?
Are we ready to lynch someone now?
Or is there more talk to be done before voting?
Are we ready to lynch someone now?
Or is there more talk to be done before voting?
a lot happened. namely, Teproc and I figured out who all the scum are.Then let's lynch yuma.
your argument is so convincing... why do you want to vote for me now?
what happened to the "we can't do anything but lynch robz" from earlier?
Vote: Yuma
e might not vote for yuma, but robz will bus. Or if robz doesn't bus, it becomes even more clear that he is scum, and we will lynch robz instead and yuma the next day.
PPE: robz is already bussing, so I'll hold off my vote for now. Unvotea lot happened. namely, Teproc and I figured out who all the scum are.Then let's lynch yuma.
your argument is so convincing... why do you want to vote for me now?
what happened to the "we can't do anything but lynch robz" from earlier?
Vote: Yuma
e might not vote for yuma, but robz will bus. Or if robz doesn't bus, it becomes even more clear that he is scum, and we will lynch robz instead and yuma the next day.
PPE: robz is already bussing, so I'll hold off my vote for now. Unvote
Got to let e try to dissuade us one last time... then I'll vote. With my vote scum only needs two people online at the same time to pull it off, should yuma be town.Vote: Yuma
e might not vote for yuma, but robz will bus. Or if robz doesn't bus, it becomes even more clear that he is scum, and we will lynch robz instead and yuma the next day.
PPE: robz is already bussing, so I'll hold off my vote for now. Unvote
Sure whatever, but don't unvote please.
I guess I'd rather lynch Robz than yuma. --snip--This is why I think if Teproc is scum, Robz is town, and it is also why I prefer a yuma lynch over a robz lynch. yes, scum would have had a chance to quickhammer if robz was town for a while, but they can never know when I was online to be able to unvote because I am hidden.
So Robz>yuma>Ichimaru for me.
random lynch between robz and yuma using the forum system?actually, I really like this idea. If teproc and one of the ICs agree to do this, we should.
Which is ? Something to do with the time stamp ?no, the forum has a die roll function. So, just for an example, this roll means nothing:
I would actually be fine with random too. I think my 50% chance of living by random vote is greater than my chance of convincing anyone to listen to me.except you wouldn't self-vote if you got selected via coinflip.
I guess I'd rather lynch Robz than yuma. I really don't see a scenario where he is town based on the way this day has gone. I can see it maybe for yuma although I find it highly unlikely as well, especially since I don't see him as a very plausible liopoil partner.This is why I think if Teproc is scum, Robz is town, and it is also why I prefer a yuma lynch over a robz lynch. yes, scum would have had a chance to quickhammer if robz was town for a while, but they can never know when I was online to be able to unvote because I am hidden.
So Robz>yuma>Ichimaru for me.
I guess Teproc can use the same reasoning to think that if I am scum, yuma is town, but really, for a long time I was pushing the robz lynch.
but otherwise Teproc is right, Robz is the scummiest of the three... I suppose this just means that Teproc is town. If the ICs want robz lynched I'll go with it.
xeiron, what do you think about randomly selecting one of robz and yuma?I do not like it.
xeiron, what do you think about randomly selecting one of robz and yuma?I do not like it.
I will vote based on reads, not on dice rolls.
random lynch between robz and yuma using the forum system?actually, I really like this idea. If teproc and one of the ICs agree to do this, we should.
PPE:Which is ? Something to do with the time stamp ?no, the forum has a die roll function. So, just for an example, this roll means nothing:
(http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/Themes/core/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d2 : 2, total 2
PPE2: go ahead, I'll read your case if you make one.
This is an obvious conspiracy theory that I hope no one takes seriously. Can we lynch yuma now?
Lekkit and yuma are I think the most under-suspected players still alive. I don't feel much suspicion for yuma, but Lekkit probably deserves more of a critical eye than he had received so far.
[other stuff]
Townie seeming: Yuma, Voltaire, Ichimaru, liopoil
Yuma has gotten absolutely zero pressure, which is actually very scummy. He's had a much smaller presence than usual too, ostensibly due to VLA.
I don't see how yuma could possibly not be scum, at this point.
vote: yuma because yuma.
I know I'm town, which of course you can't reasonably assume.
I do think he has been a little scummy today. We have a whole discussion about his reaction to liopoil urging people to vote for Robz (it starts around here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9840.msg336510#msg336510)) but I'm assuming you've seen that already and it didn't convince you.
Deadline: Monday, January 27th at 12 noon
I know I'm town, which of course you can't reasonably assume.
yeah. That is one thing. I am just much more convinced of Robz than yuma. You guys can lynch yuma after I am killed tonight (not so sure about that anymore, but still a good chance that I am) but I am not convinced of the PoE on yuma yet. Maybe after one scum is caught, yuma might appear more scummy, but right now I just don't PoE down to him. I end on a Robz/Ichi/liopoil right now probably.
Deadline: Monday, January 27th at 12 noon
Also, I will not be around for this deadline. My final vote will be placed on Sunday.
I know I'm town, which of course you can't reasonably assume.
I know I'm town, which of course you can't reasonably assume.
yeah. That is one thing. I am just much more convinced of Robz than yuma. You guys can lynch yuma after I am killed tonight (not so sure about that anymore, but still a good chance that I am) but I am not convinced of the PoE on yuma yet. Maybe after one scum is caught, yuma might appear more scummy, but right now I just don't PoE down to him. I end on a Robz/Ichi/liopoil right now probably.
Do you agree with me in regard to liopoil and his suggestion to random vote between Robz and me? I imagine you don't agree with him on it...
I know I'm town, which of course you can't reasonably assume.
This to me, is one of the defining things that makes Teproc less scummy than Liopoil right now.
In the sense that Teproc acknowledges that there's no way for other people to know he's town.
While Liopoil seems very sure of himself and just expects people to think he's town.
Are you just bus your partner here? Follow Robz' example?
Are you just bus your partner here? Follow Robz' example?
?
I don't understand this.
Are you just bus your partner here? Follow Robz' example?
?
I don't understand this.
because you were comparing Teproc and liopoil, saying Teproc was townier and liopoil was scummier in this situation
Are you just bus your partner here? Follow Robz' example?
?
I don't understand this.
because you were comparing Teproc and liopoil, saying Teproc was townier and liopoil was scummier in this situation
Oh. So you were saying I was bussing liopoil then?
If I'm night killed, I guess xeiron and 2.7 are scum but that has a likelihood that is approximately equal to liopoil's parents being aliens.nah, I think it just means that scum think they can get me mislynched but not you. Also, this aliens thing just isn't going away, is it...
So, who will it be today, Yuma or Ichimaru Gin?
time to reread robz. I suggest my fellow townies do the same. So, everyone who doesn't want to claim scum, that is.
I don't think we can get much from robz's interactions D4, it was clear the whole time that we were going to lynch him or one of his buddies, so he can bus freely.
Robz doesn't have many interactions with the three players I am interested in: yuma, teproc, and ichimaru
Yuma: gives him a D1 pass, but that's normal. Says his first post of D2 is a truthbomb. D3 doesn't feel much suspicion for him. D4 poof, first post says that he can't possibly see how yuma can not be scum, and continues to push this.
....
So this just further convinces me that it's Yuma and ichimaru gin.
Robz doesn't have many interactions with the three players I am interested in: yuma, teproc, and ichimaru
That doesn't actually advance us much though, since if we lynch Ichimaru it's just us three staring at each other tomorrow. If xeiron agrees with this, I think our lynch today should be between yuma and liopoil, since we won't have an IC helping figure things out tomorrow. I don't know if xeiron will agree since it might not make sense from his PoV, but that'd be my preference, although I'll certainly vote Ichimaru if that's the way he wants to go.
I mean, based on how they played day 4, it seems clear to me that the remaining town (from my PoV) is liopoil or yuma. Which means Ichimaru is scum by default. I was having doubts before but I think his play day 4 has been very scummy, which also helps.why is this clear from your POV?
Looking at final vote counts :Robz very much supported the faust lynch.
Day 1, Robz is off-wagon (on 2.7), yuma, liopoil and Ichimaru are on wagon. I am off (on Eevee)
I think we should lynch Ichimaru next.I'm not sure if I agree or not. On one hand, I feel more confident about yuma being scum, on the other hand, Teproc sort of has a point in that it doesn't matter because we'll be in the same position tomorrow and we have an IC now.
We have a IC now, but we have one more day of actions and interactions to base the decition on tomorrow.I think we should lynch Ichimaru next.I'm not sure if I agree or not. On one hand, I feel more confident about yuma being scum, on the other hand, Teproc sort of has a point in that it doesn't matter because we'll be in the same position tomorrow and we have an IC now.
I think we should lynch Ichimaru next.
I think we should lynch Ichimaru next.
I've said this before. I think it is irresponsible to lynch someone without even having an actual posted case on them.
I say this because I know that I am town--and even though we lynched scum yesterday. If you kill me, town will lose.
I don't know if my position on the Robz wagon is at all related to your read on me--but I slept in that morning, and liopoil had already hammered him by the time I woke up.
xeiron, what do you think of Ichimaru's vote on liopoil day 1, putting him at L-2 ? As I said a few posts above, this is making me doubtful of a liopoil/Ichimaru scumteam (and thus doubtful that liopoil is scum at all).
@Ichi : I'm not putting much stock in your position off-wagon yesterday, no. It's just, you have been opportunistic with your votes on the first few days, and then you approached lylo in a way that didn't seem townie to me. Mostly waiting to see what people were saying and being non-committal, which is exactly what scum does in this case : they want to know which townie is the most likely to be lynched, and which scum they will have to bus. Even outside of that, yuma and liopoil have both done things to make me think they're town, you haven't.
Interesting post by Ichimaru. I do hedge a lot, that's who I am, I'm never sure of anything. I know it's ont good for the game, and I do try to appear more certain than I am (for example, I am certain that pretty much every argument that has been done in the history of mafia can be reduced to WIFOM, because you're never sure scum isn't thinking three steps ahead of you), but I'm apparently failing at that.
That post was very convincing even though it was wrong. Could he have done that as scum ? Maybe. But I don't think so. Unvote
xeiron, what do you think of Ichimaru's vote on liopoil day 1, putting him at L-2 ? As I said a few posts above, this is making me doubtful of a liopoil/Ichimaru scumteam (and thus doubtful that liopoil is scum at all).
@Ichi : I'm not putting much stock in your position off-wagon yesterday, no. It's just, you have been opportunistic with your votes on the first few days, and then you approached lylo in a way that didn't seem townie to me. Mostly waiting to see what people were saying and being non-committal, which is exactly what scum does in this case : they want to know which townie is the most likely to be lynched, and which scum they will have to bus. Even outside of that, yuma and liopoil have both done things to make me think they're town, you haven't.
Well he got the game going back on track (in terms of activity) day 2, and he has been better at seeming townie in the end of day 3.I don't know what you mean by the D3 thing, and whatever he did to get the game back going D2 is really not something that scum wouldn't do.
Is anyone interested in anything that I have to say?
Would lynch: Voltaire, Liopoil, Yuma
Won't lynch: mail-mi, Teproc, and probably Ashersky--they all read pretty town to me
Everyone else, I'm more unsure about.
I'm still learning a lot about how to read what people do as town or scum --so just going off of general impressions here.
I'm fine with your vote on me. I got a D1 pass, and as such, haven't received my share of suspicion. I'm still learning how to read people's behavior as town or scum. I'll have a reads list up soon.
And here's what I feel about the current lynch options.
Ashersky: To be honest, I'm uncertain on this one. I think his overconfidence--even before Faust did anything really incriminating, does seem scummy. Yet, the case is still unconvincing to me. The sheer speed of the original wagon still makes me suspicious.
Teproc: He actually reads pretty scummy to me. Reasons at the end of this post.
Lekkit: Has really been lurking about as much as others, yet hasn't received the same suspicion for it. Interesting.
Liopoil/Chairs: Lurker lynches. Not the best, but still viable options pending how uneventful the rest of this day is. I agree that chairs should claim
2.7: I've honestly forgotten the details of this case.
Voltaire: Ash's post helped refresh my memory and better understand everything that has transpired. Totally ok with this one.
I am going to vote: Teproc. And no, this is not OMGUS. He hasn't really received any suspicion, yet I don't see what he has done to deserve this. Has he received a single vote the entire game? He brought some early accusations against Ash, but for the most part, I just think he's done a really good job of doing some towny-appearing things, while remaining mostly uninvolved.
I'm still not sold on a chairs or Ashersky lynch as of now, (in particular I believe that chairs has been legitimately busy).
I am currently suspicious of those involved in the Ash lynch--which IMO ramped up way to quickly. I have a town read on Liopoil for the above quote.
I am willing to vote Ash if we haven't really come to a conclusion and we're really close to the deadline.
Who is around to hammer Ash? I really don't see us lynching anyone else today?I'm willing to hammer. But we still have what, an hour and a half left?
Players I think are scum, or leaning scum: Teproc, Lekkit, Voltaire,
Player's I'm unsure about/mild town-read: Robz, Mail-Mi, Yuma, Liopoil, 2.7
ash, are you completely serious about being 100% on faust? Is it not an exaggeration at all?
because if he is serious, that means that if ashersky is town, faust is scum. And if faust is town, it means ashersky is scum. If someone is actually 100% sure somebody else is scum, that means we should lynch one of those two players. It's like a cop claim w/guilty result or some equivalent.
So I am assuming that ashersky is not serious.
For me (note: 27% is null):
liopoil: 0%
voltaire: 16%
ashersky: 18.5%
chairs: 21%
faust: 24%
yuma: 25.5%
robz888: 26%
lekkit, ichimaru, mail-mi: 28%
Teproc: 30%
e: 31%
eevee: 34%
ugh, not even sure I like an eevee lynch now... because knowing that I'm town, he could just be in the same boat as me. I'm having trouble seeing how we could lynch scum today. random lynch minus chairs? Not a good idea, but honestly, it's not much worse than what we're doing now.
And robz I think also reads ashersky well, especially when ash is town.
Ok more concise post:is number 1 supposed to be a reason to suspect me? I mean, it's not like faust claimed to protect me... faust was town! or is it 'There was support for the lio mislynch before, why can't we mislynch him now?' Being almost-lynched isn't suspicious, especially because of faust's claim.
1. liopoil was the largest wagon at the time that faust claimed and the thread turned into chaos
2. after that point he received very few votes compared to others who were in that category of possibly being lynched (specifically sure 2.7, eevee and mail-mi)
3. the main points against liopoil from day1 are lurking and responding passively to suspicion (I maintain that liopoil responds more aggressively as scum) and that it is compelling that his lynch was not brought up as a possibility against him after faust claimed
4. points I would add are his case against 2.7 today (I tend to find arguments that so and so talked about why the NK died to be from scum, but this isn't always true. I did it as town in GoT against Voltaire when we were both town for example), general lurky behavior today (and I don't just mean during his VLA, rather that he has posted but really only participated in a dialogue with ashersky and hasn't done much else)
#2: ...because my scumbuddies did all that voting? I would think my hypothetical scumbuddies would vote for faust, not e or mail-mi or eevee after faust's claim. And I don't remember those wagons growing much, I remember primarily everyone moving to faust, some from my wagon, some from others.
#3: a couple things here..... first off, would you prefer I always react aggresively to cases on me as town? because I don't think doing that is effective, except that maybe it would convince yuma because it would be fufilling my meta. But it isn't a meta I really want to continue... because people don't respond positively to aggression. I think I am more likely to avoid being mislynched via a more a reserved response. In previous games as town the cases on me have been really frustrating and have the frustration leaks out. And in previous games as scum I've had more of a motive to avoid the lynch, and also wasn't frustrated because the case was correct. This game, the points against me haven't been just blatantly false like I think they have been before, and so I am not particularly frustrated. If I were to react as I have in prior town games this game, then it would be fake, and being town, I am not going to fake emotions.
#4: well I haven't found that at all, and you said yourself that it isn't always accurate. Seems like this is a point you just added on because why not. Prior to my V/LA I do not think that I was particularly lurky on D2.
I agree with the case on ashersky, and I don't think I'm voting for him. I should be. Vote: Ashersky. anyway, the bit that makes me suspicious of robz is that he says it could be town!ash. town!robz is always fairly sure that this is town ash when he does the town ash thing. I can pull quotes from multiple games if necessary. Should ash flip town, I think it really makes robz suspicious.
my reads have become a fair bit weaker now that ash flipped town... feels like I haven't got anything right lately. What I've got is:
lean scum: robz, teproc
null-maybe-scummy?: yuma, 2.7
null-maybe-townie?: lekkit, ichimaru gin, mail-mi
Town: liopoil, voltaire
fabulous, I believe it. let's not lynch any of those three.
vote: AsherskyI believe Ichimaru is more inclided do this as scum. As town, the important thing is to lynch scum, but as scum, lynching anyone is fine.
Well if either/both 2.7 or Voltaire are town--I can see how the claim would look very legitimate from their point of view.Here he analyzes the remaining lynch pool after Lekkit claims hider.
I think I believe Lekkit, as I felt somewhat townie on both of them anyway. Particularly now that the flavor thing has been resolved.
However, I can also see scum playing the angle of making a claim that appears to make things a lot easier for town--especially with how up in the air everything has been. This also has the benefit of scum outing themselves from the lynch pool.
It could be a Lekkit + 2.7/Voltaire scumteam, but I'm not really thinking so right now.
So assuming Lekkit's claim is true, my lynch pool is now.
Robz
mail-mi
Yuma
Liopoil
Teproc
I felt Lekkit was pretty scummy before his claim though, so not completely sold. If it is true though, it effectively cuts the lynch pool down to 6 total, 5 for each player. That's like a 33% decrease in the size of the lynch pool. So if there are 3 scum, our odds are now about 50% of hitting them. So this effectively increases our odds of lynching scum by 17%.
...
So in order of scummiest first I guess I'd go.
Teproc/Robz
Liopoil
Yuma
Yuma at the bottom I guess, because I haven't seen a real case against him yet.
I think everyone should make a short post with their top scum-read. And we'll see where we stand.
I'll start.
Liopoil
Robz, you do realize the only way you can be quickhammered is if we are both town? it takes 4 to lynch. there are 3 scum. They need a townie to vote for a townie to be able to quickhammer.Yeah. I'm wondering if there's even a small chance of lynching anyone but Robz today.nevermind, Ichimaru is scummier than teproc, for sure. Robz is still his #1 scumread it seems, if teproc and I are 2 and 3, yet he is clearly trying to lynch teproc or I.
Liopoil has become a lot more scummy to me. So he's actually moved up to #2 with Teproc at #3 as my top scumreads.
At any rate, it will be good to hear from everyone about the Robz lynch, so when he (most hopefully) flips scum. We'll have more to analyze. And if he flips town, well it won't really matter then.
I am willing to vote for Teproc and Liopoil--but I don't see any interest there right now.
The most important thing is--we need to really, really, make sure that Robz is scum! We can't afford another mislynch. Liopoil seems very confident about this, but how can he be that sure? I think he's bussing, or scum is overjoyed that it looks almost certain that we're going to lynch town!Robz today.
I'm calling it now then, scumteam is Ichimaru Gin, yuma, and robz.
So, I think Vote: Yuma. Ichimaru Gin and Teproc posted within 2 minutes of each other, I wasn't quickhammered. Now, this doesn't totally confirm him as scum, but add that on top of I already was sure enough that he was scum...
The only reservation I might have is that perhaps it is better to lynch yuma tomorrow, but I don't think so actually.
So now people can do their rereads and stuff that they want to do, then people should vote for Yuma. I'll vote for ichimaru gin if both Xeiron and Teproc prefer that lynch.
xeiron, what do you think of Ichimaru's vote on liopoil day 1, putting him at L-2 ? As I said a few posts above, this is making me doubtful of a liopoil/Ichimaru scumteam (and thus doubtful that liopoil is scum at all).
I mean I'm fairly certain liopoil and I will lynch yuma tomorrow, for better or worse. I'll probably reread yuma beforehand because he's the only one I haven't, but Ichimaru is the one I'm less sure about of the two, so if he does flip scum, I'll be extremely unlikely to change my mind.
And liopoil has sheeped me on the whole "you should only want to lynch your top scumread".lol, I can pull a million quotes from D4 of you not caring who we lynch and me telling you that you should only want to lynch your top scumread.
Why doesn't he find Teproc scummy for doing this?
I misused the word there.
PPE:And liopoil has sheeped me on the whole "you should only want to lynch your top scumread".lol, I can pull a million quotes from D4 of you not caring who we lynch and me telling you that you should only want to lynch your top scumread.
Why doesn't he find Teproc scummy for doing this?
Oh well. Nice job on losing the game.If so, good job Teproc! but I doubt it.
some of you guys are almost kinda like celebrities in a way. (at least here on the site).hey, your scumbuddy robz is a real celebrity! well, sort of. A lot closer to a celebrity than the rest of us.
Hey, it was nice playing with you as well Ichimaru. I do hope you sign up for another game at some point ! Might I suggest Super Mario Mafia (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9999.0) ? It should be the next one to start once this is over, and it's almost full !
Also, it looks pretty cool.
Does sheeping actually refer to a case without evidence? I thought it meant something different.to sheep is to follow blindly. In the context of mafia, it means to just say "I agree with ___!" without adding anything new.
So, liopoil, did you win ? As in, scum win ?Nope, I didn't, like I said, it wasn't a quickhammer. If I were scum and ichi town I would have just posted "Vote: Ichimaru" and nothing else to secure the win.
So, liopoil, did you win ? As in, scum win ?
Ichimaru, are you truly town ? Can't you guys just be nice and tell me if you're scum ? I should go sleep but I want to see this flip...
Request a prod on Yuma
I'm calling it now then, scumteam is Ichimaru Gin, yuma, and robz.
I think the scumteam is Robz and yuma + a third, probably Ichimaru.
So this puts the scum in mail-mi/Robz/yuma/Ichi. That seems reasonable.
Awesome job liopoil! Also, special shout out to Ichimaru for excellent scum play for his first game!Also, Teproc! Even with lekkit's hiding, we still needed to pick the two townies out of 5 people. There were 10 different combinations that could be. Teproc and I had to trust each other, and we did.
yuma, if shraeye had replaced manda in Chocolate Factory town would have won, but it wouldn't have been unfair at all, assuming manda had outed or been prodded 3 times. Replacing with someone not in the speccy seems like the best option to me, as there is no particular reason for their reads to be good. It gets dicey if your only options are from the speccy, but in both cases those would have been good solutions I think.
I feel like you guys feel iffy about the xeiron replacement because you feel like you lost despite playing well. Which is true, but that's not the fault of the replacement, it's because of Lekkit's Hider play and not much else. It sucks, but there's not much to be done about it. I don't think the 2.7/ashersky mod error mattered at all, I'm still surprised Voltaire was giving liopoil town cred for that. It would have been caught at some point by someone, I don't see any reason for scum!liopoil not to do it.
Oh, and I have no idea why you think liopoil's day 3 was scummy. I found it incredibly townie...
Awesome job liopoil! Also, special shout out to Ichimaru for excellent scum play for his first game!Thanks :). Near the end though especially, I slipped more--part of that was due to school and I couldn't keep things up as well.
oh yay i won.
I do not think Ichimaru slipped that much. It was not easy to see that he was scum, and I caught him more by PoE that by slips.Awesome job liopoil! Also, special shout out to Ichimaru for excellent scum play for his first game!Thanks :). Near the end though especially, I slipped more--part of that was due to school and I couldn't keep things up as well.
But overall, I really enjoyed this game. It was a ton of fun being scum in my first game, but I think I'm eager to see how I'll play as town too.
I agree with MVP to Liopoil. He did a great job at the start of day 4 to convince me you was town.
Creds to Teproc as well. He also did a good job in conveying his towniness.I do not think Ichimaru slipped that much. It was not easy to see that he was scum, and I caught him more by PoE that by slips.Awesome job liopoil! Also, special shout out to Ichimaru for excellent scum play for his first game!Thanks :). Near the end though especially, I slipped more--part of that was due to school and I couldn't keep things up as well.
But overall, I really enjoyed this game. It was a ton of fun being scum in my first game, but I think I'm eager to see how I'll play as town too.
But never voting for your scummates I think was a mistake, and strong evidence against Yuma after Ichimaru was caucht.