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Author Topic: Which Cards are the least fun?  (Read 20261 times)

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WanderingWinder

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Which Cards are the least fun?
« on: June 03, 2012, 07:52:30 pm »
+1

Well, you probably know why this is getting written. But in case you don't, it's a response to this thread, which, by the way, I highly recommend.

This isn't a thread to throw hate at the worst cards in dominion. Yes, we all hate the chancellor and thief and transmute and counting house and scout already. But no, this is a card to discuss which cards we like the least. So even though Jack of All Trades is really strong, lots of people are going to dislike it, because they think it makes the games formulaic. Indeed, lots of the most annoying cards are strong - and their strength against you is part of what makes them annoying! At the same time, cards don't HAVE to be strong to be hated - we're looking at you, saboteur.

Anyway, I'm probably going to post a more comprehensive list later on, but for now, I'm going to get the ball rolling with a couple cards I don't expect to be SO popular on this list.

Masquerade: This is absolutely one of my least favourite cards. It would be much less unpleasant if it weren't actually really good. But it is - the combination of card draw and trashing. And if it were just that, it would be fine. BUT... the passing. Well, it's sorta often like an attack, and an unblockable one. So not only does it lead to the most infamous pin in the game, in all its forms, but it also is just annoying as a follow up after a 'normal' discard attack. But I think the biggest thing is... it's really hard to ignore the card. It's really hard to say 'yeah, I don't need masq this game'. Because normally you do. But it also doesn't look like it really goes super-great with lots of stuff either, at least in my head. Which gets my mental pattern into this rut where it just wants to inertially default to BM-masq every game it's on the board. Which is good, but not THAT good. And annoyingly boring.

Minion: What a weird card. I hate when I play it for money, because it's just a silver then, you know? And then I hate how formulaic your basic BM-minion deck is. And it feels that way too often, discarding means you're just spinning your wheels. But if you try to add stuff to it, you get to "well, shoot; do I pitch this hand, like I would in the canonical minion deck, or do I forego that, because this card won't come back if I cycle that much?" So, it's certainly possible to slam some villages in and basically just use minion as the attack+card draw portion of your engine, with some other terminals (or I guess, non-terminal cards and maybe not villages)... but somehow I tend to overlook this possibility until it's too late, OR to get the terminals before the villages in my turns... le sigh. And that discard attack, it's surprisingly strong.

chwhite

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2012, 08:01:06 pm »
0

Yes, we all hate the chancellor... and transmute ... already.

Not all of us. :P

My #1 most hated card, by leaps and bounds, is Ill-Gotten Gains.  IGG-rush is as bad as Dominion gets. 

Second place is probably Fool's Gold, which is kinda the treasure equivalent of Minion, in that it's only actually good if you spam it, but the threat of spamming it means you have to dip into it anyway even if there's a better plan, and then ugh.  I can see why you dislike Minion, but I think it's much less objectionable since there's a wider range of Actions you can mix in with your Minion deck, and rushing it from Turn 1 is not so crucial since it costs $5 anyway.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 08:05:07 pm by chwhite »
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popsofctown

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2012, 08:06:14 pm »
0

I hate Treasure map, and Familiar for similar reasons.  They cause random success or failure.  There's legitimate ways to make Treasure map work, like heavy trashing and sifting.  What happens is people often start building one of those reasonable Treasure map strategies, but before they can even get it going the Maps dumb luck collide turn 5.
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O

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2012, 08:07:13 pm »
0

Masquerade
Familiar
Ill Gotten Gains

Swindler
Swindler
Swindler
Swindler
Swindler
Swindler
Swindler
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Rhombus

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2012, 08:10:15 pm »
0

Possession, Familiar, and all potion cards - oh, you opened 5/2?  Your potion missed the reshuffle, and then so did your familiar?  There's inherently luck in a card game, but these bring out the worst.

Bridge - I just don't get this one ... probably need more practice.

Goons - can be a lot of fun, but this 6-cost power card just doesn't always feel right.

King's Court - KC-KC-Mountebank-Wharf-Wharf, game over.

Saboteur - just got out of a game where my opponent hit 3 of my provinces (in a row), and I hit a silver, a gold, and who knows what other meaningless cards.  My deck was far superior, but sometimes there's nothing you can do.

Smugglers - almost entirely luck based, considering it can be worth a Grand Market or a Silver.

Treasure Map - cool when you strategize with it, lame when your opponent's only 2 treasure maps land together in his 20 card deck without draw after possibly already having one set on turns 5/6.

Young Witch - just don't like the Bane concept.

Tournament - out of all of these, this might be the worst.

Black Market - I take that back, I had two separate games today where my opponents drew tournament from the Black Market deck.  It sounded awesome when I was new, but it's swingy and also not the greatest to set up IRL.

Edit - forgot swindler.  Just terrible.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 08:13:15 pm by Rhombus »
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jsh357

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2012, 08:12:03 pm »
+3

Followers.  I hate the exclusivity.  It's no so bad with the other prizes, since they don't have the power to transform the nature of the game quite like Followers can with some exceptions.  It's often the only Curser in play, often the only hand-size attack, yadda yadda.  In fact, I don't even hate Tournament; if it weren't for Followers, I'd be fine with the card.  Gaining an Estate can be a drawback at times, but in my experience not enough.  I feel dirty when I win with it, and I feel cheated when I lose to it.  The same I can't say for most commonly annoying cards.

(Yes, I'm aware that it's not always the best choice of prize--no, that doesn't change my feelings)

Black Market can lead to the same imbalance as Followers, but I'm a little more sympathetic to it since it doesn't take a lot of setup to GET cards from the BM, and often there will be a second curser/village/whatever you need to choose from if you miss the first.  I can totally understand somebody hating this card, though.
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popsofctown

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2012, 08:15:17 pm »
0

I remember when everyone was telling me Trusty Steed was easily the best prize.

Hahahahaha..
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cherdano

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2012, 08:16:00 pm »
0

Wow I really love masquerade. No other card except possession links the two decks as much. There are the obvious points, such as "Opponent plays a militia? Better know whether he has already played his masquerade this shuffle." But there are also many subtle points, e.g. that it makes heavy trashing almost unplayable, and sometimes even light trashing undesirable. Thinking of getting a second masquerade? Depends a lot on the opponent's deck, doesn't it?
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Morgrim7

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2012, 08:19:17 pm »
0

Torturer.
I despise this card. This card chains, and is not only an absolutely brutal attack, when the curses are gone, you have set up a Village-Smithy engine that can pile-srive Provinces while your opponent is trying to recover from his ruined deck and scrape up to Duchies. And if your opponent wins Torturer chain race, well, that is most likely gg.
Another bad thing about this card is that is makes people quit Dominion. If you are on a board on iso. and the obvious strategy is to build a Torturer chain...yeah.
Black Market.
P1 Plays a Black Market, drawing a Pearl Diver, a Treasure Map, and a Spy.
P2 Plays a Black Market, drawing a Sea Hag, and the other two do not matter.
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chwhite

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2012, 08:22:10 pm »
0

I feel people would dislike Black Market less if they realized that it's very often not worth buying even when there's good stuff in there. 

I suspect I'd dislike Black Market more if I had ever played a game with it IRL.
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Wingnut

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2012, 08:30:51 pm »
+2

For the most part the cards I hate are the ones that encourage front running decks to continue to run away.

Haggler, Peddler, and Tournament I'm looking at you. With these in play a small disadvantage often gets out of control really easily.

Other than those, Scrying Pool. It's not fun to sit there and watch your opponent play for 3 minutes turn after turn after turn. I play Dominion )or any other game for that matter) because I like to play. Often with other times where I sit for awhile, I can at least be in awe of a well constructed engine. With Scrying Pool, especially with a village in play, it is just too easy to construct.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2012, 08:31:35 pm »
0

Wow I really love masquerade. No other card except possession links the two decks as much. There are the obvious points, such as "Opponent plays a militia? Better know whether he has already played his masquerade this shuffle." But there are also many subtle points, e.g. that it makes heavy trashing almost unplayable, and sometimes even light trashing undesirable. Thinking of getting a second masquerade? Depends a lot on the opponent's deck, doesn't it?


I'm not saying there's no strategic depth - there obviously is. I hate it anyway....

WanderingWinder

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2012, 08:33:16 pm »
0

Saboteur - just got out of a game where my opponent hit 3 of my provinces (in a row), and I hit a silver, a gold, and who knows what other meaningless cards.  My deck was far superior, but sometimes there's nothing you can do.
Don't buy saboteur, and win? No seriously, this is very very often the case. Okay, sometimes, there's nothing you can do anyway, but this is true of any card.

Not that I'm trying to say it's a bad choice. It's far from being anywhere close to my favourite cards list.

jonts26

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2012, 09:01:38 pm »
0

The cards I hate tend to be the ones which introduce a lot of variance or just amount to buy as many of this card as you can, but are still usually a good idea to pick up because they are so strong.

#1 - Swindler
#2 - Swindler
#3 - Tournament
#4 - Governor
#5 - Minion
#6 - IGG
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popsofctown

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2012, 09:12:57 pm »
0

Why is Swindler more popular than Treasure Map?  And by that I mean, unpopular.

To me, Treasure Map contributes very little to the game, so a large proportion of what it brings is variance.  Treasure Map strategies are pretty straightforward, and alongside that there's like a third of the time or so that player collides Treasure maps a reshuffle before he deserves to.

Swindler doesn't always screw up the game, very often both players get equal copper hits, and 5$ Duchifications are a small minority of games (at least, the super early ones.  Later on, a Duchy is kinda cool anyway).  And it does bring strategy with it - you have to consider what the other 4$ do to your opponent's deck, could your opponent audible to build around the other 4's?  And even though Swindler #1 is often mandatory, the number of Swindlers you should buy is dependent on these unique evaluations. 

It's kind of a shame that the card wasn't designed to ONLY have that effect, but it'd have to be rather wordy to accomplish that.
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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2012, 09:19:18 pm »
+1

Treasure Map has connection strategy, swindlers strategy? Play swindler lots and lots.
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popsofctown

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2012, 09:31:28 pm »
0

My view of Treasure Map is "buy Warehouse lots and lots".  I can't think of a Treasure Map board where I was uncertain of how best to maximize the odds of collision.  Do you have 4$?  Buy treasure map.  Less than 4?  Buy the best connector on the board, rarely is it even close.
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jonts26

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2012, 09:52:56 pm »
+2

Treasure map can be kind of swingy, but it's usually not very good at all. So just ignore it. And there are a handful of enablers that have different strategies for when to buy the maps which are different. Tactician, Inn, Warehouse all play a bit differently.
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chwhite

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2012, 10:04:02 pm »
0

90 percent of the time, strategy for Treasure Map is "don't buy it".  It's hard for me to hate a card which is that bad.
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Tdog

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2012, 10:04:49 pm »
+1

Mountebank- The fact it gives out two cards makes for a super mucked up deck. Then the built in most is annoying. Oh, your opponent reveals one of his 2 curses 3 times in a row against your 2 'banks. Sweet.
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heron

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2012, 10:48:41 pm »
0

Envoy
Despite the fact that this card has one of my highest win rates gjven available, I cannot stand it.
There is no depth to this card.
Playing BM? Buy one or two and no other actions.
Playing an engine? Don't buy it.

Also, I get really angry when my opponent discards my good cards.

@Tdog: Isn't it required that you discard a curse for the built-in mountebank defense, not just reveal  it?
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jonts26

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2012, 10:53:40 pm »
+3

Envoy
Despite the fact that this card has one of my highest win rates gjven available, I cannot stand it.
There is no depth to this card.
Playing BM? Buy one or two and no other actions.
Playing an engine? Don't buy it.

Envoy can do quite well in engines. The trick is you need a decent amount of redundancy for the discard to not hurt you. But +4 cards is huge when trying to draw your deck. Consider the other +4 cards card also gives your opponent a free card.
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Kahryl

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2012, 11:21:27 pm »
+1

Jack of All Trades is by far the least fun. The more you try to fight it the more it wins. The more you try to improve upon it the more it sucks.

Ill Gotten Gains is a close second. Just keep pounding it until it's empty, then clear the duchies. Rare is the board where this is not the best strategy.
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werothegreat

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2012, 11:33:20 pm »
+1

Ghost Ship.  I realize it's not the worst of Attacks, but it has always annoyed me.  Unlike Militia, it prevents you from shuffling.  You're stuck with these same few cards for your entire life.  Even Ambassador is starting to grow on me, but I will never reconcile myself with Ghost Ship.
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Robz888

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Re: Which Cards are the least fun?
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2012, 11:35:02 pm »
+5

I hate Tournament so much it would be a crime to mention any other card in the same breath. It... is... so... random. I mean, in theory, it would be a lot of fun, where maybe I get to connect them first so I get Followers, but then you get Trusty Steed and Princess, and then I get Bag of Gold... in reality, NO. I get Followers and Trusty Steed and Bag of Gold because you went second or got a bad shuffle, you poor bastard. Oh, you want +1 card +$1? Too bad, I got my Province first. Squat for you, sucker. Ugh.
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