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[iguanaiguana]

Let's not have Faust's opposition dictate the game
 Maybe he's actually town this time but he's not the towniest player in the game by a longshot.

I agree that Ghacob could make an order. But I don't 100% agree we need to do one. I think we would see a lot of VET claims and then scum will know who to shoot.

PPS is acting a lot a lot like a scum rolecop and LL is acting like his partner.

[pingpongsam]

Let's not have Faust's opposition dictate the game
 Maybe he's actually town this time but he's not the towniest player in the game by a longshot.

I agree that Ghacob could make an order. But I don't 100% agree we need to do one. I think we would see a lot of VET claims and then scum will know who to shoot.

PPS is acting a lot a lot like a scum rolecop and LL is acting like his partner.

I haven't seen the case on LL but I've seen lots of weak movement in his direction. If the case is presupposed on me being his partner then that might explain why I am not seeing what you're seeing, though. I would much rather see us lynch LL than myself, though.

That said, what's the difference between a scum rolecop and a town cop behavior?

[iguanaiguana]

Um the way your result came with a big readymade case on Faust and then the extremity of your defensiveness after people have been suspecting the case and suspecting you. The way you and LL have been pushing cases on town people all game doesn't help either.

I think there is plenty of condemning evidence for either of you individually to lynch either of you and then yeah your play would be consistent with being scum partners.

I could be wrong! But I don't see any kind of evidence compelling enough to push me to vote somewhere else.

[mcmcsalot]

I am immensely opposed to the mass claim. I do not see what it does to help town.

PPS has already said that his modification has to do with timing/shots not sanity ect. so knowing when/if he can shoot gives us nothing the only thing is that there is potentially a cop result he has from tonight he is not telling us. I seriously doubt he is holding on to a result, unless its a town result on someone not in trouble of getting lynched. He is likely one shot and out or odd night and couldn't do anything last night lets not let scum know which one.

TWM has claimed nothing of substance. Actually really interesting here, TWM claimed to have used a pr on cuzz night one. One could assume he has another something he used last night. Two potential results that we actually don't know about. TWM's usage of pr hasn't led to a definitive stance on cuzz either way. Curious TWM is pushing for the massclaim big time But as I have pointed out literally zero town reason for PPS to claim more than he has, if you really think we should claim you should just claim.

Iguana has just said this

I have a story about my thought process related to my role that I think makes me towny. Can't share though since I'd have to claim. I will share at mass claim time or L-1 with intent to hammer.

So he has a role, it could even be a vt "role". Again this is a situation of iguana if you have results that are relevant, maybe think about claiming them, if not don't worry about it. I don't see why iguana telling us what he is now is manifestly different than tomorrow. All people have said is we can trust claims more today than tomorrow, but I don't really know thats true, if iguana is scum he has planned some type of fake claim since the beginning and I don't see how town benefits forcing scum!iguana to fake claim today instead of tomorrow.

Galz even night watcher
Space one shot cop
Clem and swan flipped vt

So yes we have our 5 potential prs already pseudo claimed.

From all this as I said there is no reason for pps to claim and I'm not sure I care about forcing iguana to claim. TWM on the other hand I actually wouldn't mind getting his claim. I have some thoughts I want to keep to myself for now about what TWM based on what he has done

[The_Wine_Merchant]

My reason for wanting to claim is that right now while I have reads they are basically just pure speculation. I have nothing very good to go off and what I thought was decent yesterday ended up garbage. And my estimation of other players' reads are the same. Speculation on nothing substantial. Claiming gives us something to work with and hopefully use. Maybe it won't. But at this point I think if we don't change how we are playing the game nothing will change and we will lose.

I am very pessimistic of us being able to get a lynch correct or tomorrow without something better to guide us. I have stated that I am happy to claim, but I am not going to claim fully by myself because I feel that my claiming alone is more harmful than claiming as a group. I partially claimed to save myself from a lynch. That was accomplished, but didn't fully claim for a reason and again am unlikely to do so unless it is with the participation of others.

[Cuzz]

...

PPS is acting a lot a lot like a scum rolecop and LL is acting like his partner.

...

That said, what's the difference between a scum rolecop and a town cop behavior?

Oh sweet goodness this is some scummy whatnot. I think II may be onto something here. Vote: pps

[The_Wine_Merchant]

L-1?

[Cuzz]

unvote

shit sorry that was L-1 and I didn't mean to do that

[Cuzz]

so that was real dumb but I caught myself before seeing TWM's post (I missed iguana's vote on the previous page, which is double dumb because I was kinda sheeping his argument), but I think there is a decent chance scum would have quickhammered town there, so I feel like TWM is slightly more likely town if pps is town, which I'm beginning to think he's not, so this isn't the most helpful read but it's not quite nothing

[mcmcsalot]

so that was real dumb but I caught myself before seeing TWM's post (I missed iguana's vote on the previous page, which is double dumb because I was kinda sheeping his argument), but I think there is a decent chance scum would have quickhammered town there, so I feel like TWM is slightly more likely town if pps is town, which I'm beginning to think he's not, so this isn't the most helpful read but it's not quite nothing

A one for one would currently be abysmal for scum and great for town so no way scum quick hammers there.

[iguanaiguana]

First towny stuffs I've seen from Cuzz in a while!

Although if I were PPS' partner I might do something just like what Cuzz did.............................

Cuzz doesn't look so great with his wagon history, but his posts look towny to me. That's my opinion of Cuzz : )

Does anyone know if he's a good liar?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

so that was real dumb but I caught myself before seeing TWM's post (I missed iguana's vote on the previous page, which is double dumb because I was kinda sheeping his argument), but I think there is a decent chance scum would have quickhammered town there, so I feel like TWM is slightly more likely town if pps is town, which I'm beginning to think he's not, so this isn't the most helpful read but it's not quite nothing

A one for one would currently be abysmal for scum and great for town so no way scum quick hammers there.

Yeah. I was a bit tempted to hammer as town. But would never in a million years think of doing it as scum.

[iguanaiguana]

so that was real dumb but I caught myself before seeing TWM's post (I missed iguana's vote on the previous page, which is double dumb because I was kinda sheeping his argument), but I think there is a decent chance scum would have quickhammered town there, so I feel like TWM is slightly more likely town if pps is town, which I'm beginning to think he's not, so this isn't the most helpful read but it's not quite nothing

A one for one would currently be abysmal for scum and great for town so no way scum quick hammers there.

Except we at f.ds have a fantastically abysmal history of not lynching people who derphammer the next day, fake or otherwise.

I've faked more than one derphammer with the confidence that I can talk my way out of getting lynched.

[mcmcsalot]

My reason for wanting to claim is that right now while I have reads they are basically just pure speculation. I have nothing very good to go off and what I thought was decent yesterday ended up garbage. And my estimation of other players' reads are the same. Speculation on nothing substantial. Claiming gives us something to work with and hopefully use. Maybe it won't. But at this point I think if we don't change how we are playing the game nothing will change and we will lose.

I am very pessimistic of us being able to get a lynch correct or tomorrow without something better to guide us. I have stated that I am happy to claim, but I am not going to claim fully by myself because I feel that my claiming alone is more harmful than claiming as a group. I partially claimed to save myself from a lynch. That was accomplished, but didn't fully claim for a reason and again am unlikely to do so unless it is with the participation of others.

So I see what you are trying to say but it doesn't track. From your perspective, the only possible hidden information is what iguana's role is and if there is another pr hanging out somewhere. And if iguana has results that are relevant, I think he should share them, if there is another pr that has relevant results, they should share. Other than that what help do you town!TWM get from a massclaim, nothing. Scum!TWM gets pps's modifyer, iguana's role threat level, and if there is another pr lurking.

On the flip side you specifically have given scum the fact that you are a pr that you "targeted" cuzz and then no clue what you did last night. scum gets much less from simply learning what it is you targeted cuzz with where town learns how we should treat cuzz ect. So like I said, if anything you should claim. Not force out other advantages for scum.

[Ghacob]

I am immensely opposed to the mass claim. I do not see what it does to help town.

Helping Process of Elimination is a big one, along with making people actually responsible for their pseudoclaims are the big reasons I want to do this

PPE: 5, cuzz and reactions

PPE: 1. The amount that this should be discussed is...not until the claims actually happen. the more that I have to talk about, the less effective it'll be, but it definitely should still be done over not

[mcmcsalot]

Making a bigger post and noticed this.

The vote counts and my memory make PPS and LL look scummiest. The kills seem to indicate that scum has a way to find PRs.

I want to know if Faust still thinks that TAM is scummy.

Gonna go with PPS. I think we get better information from his flip than from LL flip. I am totally totally ok with going for LL too though.  There's 3 scum out there,  super unlikely both of them are town.

Vote: PPS

what do you think we get from PPS's flip? he only town confirmed space. You are jumping to the only thing we could get is he has a result from last night he would tell us then we would lynch him to confirm the result? If it was a helpful result i'm gonna go ahead and guess he would have claimed. PPS is not an informative lynch more than his alignment really.

[iguanaiguana]

To me, it looks unlikely that we are lynching any of the following people today: me, Ghacob, TWM, McMcsalot, maybe Faust.

If that's true, then IMO we are doing really well and have really good odds of hitting scum, and so there's no need to claim anything else right now.

I don't feel TWM's low confidence about odds of hitting scum. The people who have been driving the wagons the past couple of days are not the ones driving the wagons right now. That is a good thing and a good sign that we've got scum cornered.

[iguanaiguana]

Making a bigger post and noticed this.

The vote counts and my memory make PPS and LL look scummiest. The kills seem to indicate that scum has a way to find PRs.

I want to know if Faust still thinks that TAM is scummy.

Gonna go with PPS. I think we get better information from his flip than from LL flip. I am totally totally ok with going for LL too though.  There's 3 scum out there,  super unlikely both of them are town.

Vote: PPS

what do you think we get from PPS's flip? he only town confirmed space. You are jumping to the only thing we could get is he has a result from last night he would tell us then we would lynch him to confirm the result? If it was a helpful result i'm gonna go ahead and guess he would have claimed. PPS is not an informative lynch more than his alignment really.

If he is town, then I think his case on Faust is probably correct. So we get info on whether to believe in it.

The reason not to lynch Faust today is that he's def not partners with DatSwan, which was the main reason he looked like he could be scum yesterday.

IDK am I being too simple?

[iguanaiguana]

Cause it's like, either Faust is scum, and he shot scummy Galz because he thought he needed to shoot a strong player to justify being alive D2, and then he shot Space because he wanted to frame PPS and he knew he would have to kill Space after town!PPS flipped an investigative role. So in a world where PPS is town, Faust is probably scum because he's still alive.

But in the world where Faust is town, probably PPS is scum trying to frame the dude.

[iguanaiguana]

We could totally lynch Faust first but that would be dumb IMO because I believe in scum!PPS more than scum!Faust right now.

[mcmcsalot]

PPS voters (reason for)
Day 1: cuzz(rvs), space(rvs), mcmc(case), robz(sheep), cuzz(scummy pps post): 3
Day 2: iguana(post claim case), faust(scummy pps post), datswan(omgus): 3
Day 3: faust(deaths?), ghacob(sheep), iguana(wagon case), cuzz(scummy pps post): 4

So Day one I pushed a pps case very hard, we had it turns out two other wagons on town so there was no need or reason for scum to join my wagon over the others aside from the fact that I was the one pushing the case. However since then, PPS claimed cop and now has gotten up to l-1 at a point. I guess this didn't tell me as much as I wanted, it does make faust and iguana feel scummier to me ugh but they were the lalight pushers which makes them townier.

I think i'm at:

Lalight>>>TWM>>Robs>faust/iguana/pps/cuzz>ghavob

[pingpongsam]

Lalight>>>TWM>>Robs>faust/iguana/pps/cuzz>ghavob

You didn't include yourself in the list?!

[mcmcsalot]

Cause it's like, either Faust is scum, and he shot scummy Galz because he thought he needed to shoot a strong player to justify being alive D2, and then he shot Space because he wanted to frame PPS and he knew he would have to kill Space after town!PPS flipped an investigative role. So in a world where PPS is town, Faust is probably scum because he's still alive.

But in the world where Faust is town, probably PPS is scum trying to frame the dude.

Why are people so convinced that faust has to be part of some sort of framing plan being with the nightkils.

Galz is a super strong townie, Space was confirmed town by cop, aren't the reasons they died just obvious and have nothing specific to do with faust.

[iguanaiguana]

Iunno man, I'm a simple phool I suppose.

Let's Lynch LaLight has been my battle cry this game. Of course I'll join you there.

How about you get a wagon to L-1 on him and I get to hammer 

[iguanaiguana]

Yesterday didn't you say my PPS case was genius?