Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: faust on June 21, 2017, 02:40:43 am
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Welcome to RMM44: Firefly Mafia!
Mod: faust
This is an advanced-level RMM for 9 players. By design it will last longer than the usual 9-player game.
Players:
1. Teproc
2. Awaclus
3. Witherweaver
4. gkrieg13
5. pingpongsam
6. CheesyJelly
7. 2.71828....
8. LaLight
9. ashersky
Spectators tagged: Galzria, SpaceAnemone, J Reggie, Joseph2302
Day starts/ends:
Day 1 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17335.msg704888#msg704888) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17335.msg705659#msg705659)
Day 2 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17335.msg705911#msg705911) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17335.msg706771#msg706771)
Day 3 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17335.msg706972#msg706972) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17335.msg707594#msg707594)
Day 4 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17335.msg707804#msg707804) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17335.msg707914#msg707914)
Day 5 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17335.msg708199#msg708199) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17335.msg708546#msg708546)
Day 6 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17335.msg708729#msg708729)
General rules
Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in olive.
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for any mafia game on this site. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.
1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any game-related source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 12 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. Day phases will last 8 days, Night lasts at least 24 hours (but may be extended on the weekend).
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one mission for it to start prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched or a mission is accepted, the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, or without a mission reaching a majority of approvals, there will be no lynch and no mission.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. The second time town fails to lynch and does not appect a mission in a row, scum wins.
10. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in shared Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post. Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post. The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.
3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, olive text is reserved for the mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued after 24 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.9 without further notice. Players with announced VLA are exempt from this rule this first time it happens.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement, or fail to post for 24 hours repeatedly, risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread. A request to /out must only be done via a post in the role QT. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique. (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
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The Setup
Energy
The ship has an energy pool of 25 at game start. At the end of each night, the ship uses up 10 energy points. If the energy pool ever drops below zero, the game ends in a mafia win. Ship energy level and current energy usage are announced at the start of each Day.
Rank order
There is a fixed rank order among all players. At the beginning of the game, this is determined based on flavor. Ranks range from 1 to the number of remaining living players.
At the end of each day, rank order among the living players changes as follows:
- for each player, the number of votes they had at the end of the day is added to their rank.
- The new rank order is determined by sorting players ascendingly according to that number
- if the number is the same for two or more players, order among them is determined by the number of votes they received, i.e. inverse rank order.
Rank order is as follows during the Day:
Adam (1)
Beatrix (2)
Clotilde (3)
Donald (4)
Ernest (5)
The end of day vote count is this:
Adam (2): Beatrix, Donald
Beatrix (1): Clotilde
Donald (2): Adam, Ernest
This gives the following numbers: Adam - 3, Beatrix - 3, Clotilde - 3, Donald - 6, Ernest - 5. Clotilde takes rank 1 because they did not receive any votes. The new rank order is this:
Clotilde (1)
Beatrix (2)
Adam (3)
Ernest (4)
Donald (5)
Rank order is not public. Players will know their own rank at all times. The player with rank order 1 is called the Captain, the player with rank order 2 is the First Mate.
Captain phase
At the start of the day, the current Captain receives 3 Mission cards in their QT. They must play one, save one and discard one. They must also make a proposal: they select a number of living players as stated on the Mission card to carry out the Mission. The card that is saved will be one of the 3 cards dealt out in the next Captain phase (along with 2 new ones).
The deadline for these decisions is 72 hours after game start. If the Captain does not send in orders, this will be determined randomly. Otherwise, the Captain phase ends as soon as the Captain has submitted the necessary orders. They may request a delay.
Voting phase
Once the Catpain has submitted their choice, the mission card and the chosen players are revealed in the game thread. All players may (publicly) vote Accept or Refuse. If a majority of living players Accept, the mission will be carried out, and the game immediately moves to twilight.
If a majority of living players Refuse, the proposal fails. Then and only then, the game moves to the First Mate phase.
First Mate phase
If a mission proposal fails, the First Mate may select a different team for the mission. They do not see the other mission cards and may not play another mission. There is no time limit for their proposal. Once they hand in a proposal, a second voting phase occurs. If the second proposal fails as well, there can be no mission on that day.
At any time, a majority lynch ends the day, and in this case no mission will be performed. Days last at most 8 RL days.
The Missions
If a mission has been accepted during the Day, each player selected for the mission may send in either Success or Failure at night. No submission will default to Success.
The energy cost for the mission is substracted from the ship's energy pool. If the ship does not have enough energy, this will have the same effect as the Mission having been refused.
If the condition stated on the mission card is reached, the Success effects listed on the card will take place. Otherwise, the Failure effects take place. Some missions have different conditions depending on whether a mafia player has died. The condition have the following format: 3/3 (read "3 out of 3") means 3 players need to be selected, and 3 players need to submit "success" in order for the mission to succeed. If there are two conditions (e.g. 3/3 // 4/4), then the latter condition is in effect once the first mafia player has died.
Some mission cards offer special successes, which can be achieved if a certain flavor character listed in the mission card is part of the crew.
At the end of the night, it will be revealed whether the mission was a success or a failure, but not what was submitted.
Day and Night actions
Unless stated otherwise, players on a mission can only target other players on a mission for any night actions, and players not on a mission can only target other players not on a mission. Unless stated otherwise, players may take no more than one active action per game phase (i.e. day or night), with the exception of factional powers, which may be used in addition to any individual action.
The mafia nightkill may only be performed by a player who is not on a mission, and may only target another such player. It is not mandatory.
Some night actions may manipulate the ship's energy pool. Any such action can only be successful if the energy pool has at least the required amount at the time the action is taken; they cannot cause the energy level to drop below zero.
Resolution order
At the end of the night, events will be resolved in this order:
1. Night actions are resolved as usual. Conflicting night actions are resolved by a predetermined scheme. Specific question on night action resolution for your own night actions can be requested via QT.
2. It is determined whether the mission was a success. Success or failure events happen (depending on Mission).
3. The ship uses energy
4. Players who have been killed die.
Flips and information
Every player must choose one of their powers to be revealed when they die. This power will be revealed together with their flip. The choice may be changed up until death (but not during Twilight after they have been lynched). If they fail to do this, no powers will be flipped for town; for non-town players, all powers will be flipped in that case.
Contraband
There is a ressource called contraband. This interacts with the mission cards, and possibly some roles.
Public Information
There are two alignments in the game, town and mafia. Two players have mafia alignment. The alignments have the following win conditions:
You win when all Mafia-aligned players are dead, or nothing can stop that from happening.
You win when the energy level of Serenity drops below 0, or nothing can stop that from happening.
The mafia has daychat.
The flavor names in the game are the names of the characters that form the permanent crew of Serenity in the TV series Firefly. Knowledge of the series will improve your game experience. Two of these have been randomly selected as mafia. Every player has exactly three special abilities. Some may be negative utility for their own faction.
There are 3 mission cards that appear multiple times; they are:
Scavenge
"Now we have a boatful of citizens right on top of our... stolen cargo. That's a fun mix."
Cost: 0 energy
Conditions: 3/3 // 4/4
Success: 10 points energy, 3 contraband
Failure: No effect
Black Market
"You think there's someone just going to drop money on you?! Money they could use?! Well there ain't people like that... There's just people like me."
Cost: 5 energy
Conditions: 2/2 // 3/3
Success: Trade all contraband for 15 energy each.
Failure: Lose 1 contraband
Shore Leave
"Persephone is not home. Too many people we need to avoid. Resupply, look for work, move along. We sniff the air, we don't kiss the dirt."
Cost 0 energy
Conditions: n-1/n
Success: All participants may perform one additional action the following night. A mission pick does not end the following day.
Failure: -
The player that issues the mission may choose any number of crew members as long as at least 1 player remains on Serenity. The mission succeeds if at most one failure is sent.
All other missions are unique. The order in which missions are distributed is predetermined and non-random. Every player has a "special" mission card in which their flavor name is mentioned. They will know what this mission card is.
It is possible for the town to win without ever lynching someone.
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If you wish to sign up, please let me know of any upcoming VLA that you are already aware of in the forthcoming month.
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Maybe.
/tag
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Maybe.
/tag
Actually, probably not - but still tag. Playing Mafia alone is enough for me. Mixing in SpaceAlert or Firefly is just a little too much - although I enjoy the concepts tremendously.
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It is mandatory that all players have read the setup post prior to game start.
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I don't understand the conditions for missions to succeed ? What do those numbers mean ?
Also, this fits my "flavor I care about" condition for RMM, so /in.
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I don't understand the conditions for missions to succeed ? What do those numbers mean ?
Also, this fits my "flavor I care about" condition for RMM, so /in.
Not explicitly stated I suppose: 3/3 (read "3 out of 3") means 3 players need to be selected, and 3 players need to submit "success" in order for the mission to succeed. If there are two conditions (e.g. 3/3 // 4/4), then the latter condition is in effect once the first mafia player has died.
Will add that to the setup post.
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Right. This really is The Resistance meets Mafia. Cool.
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The flavor will be about the British WWII tank, right, right?
/in
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Ooh, neat! :-)
I'll just /tag for now because I don't want to overcommit to stuff..
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/tag
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/in
I must.
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It is mandatory that all players have read the setup post prior to game start.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
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tag
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/in
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/in
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/tag. It was a pretty good show.
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/in
Can't pass this up. Potentially limited access 8th-15th July, but should be able to catch up at least twice a day.
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/in
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pros: -day things
-everyone in playerlist ez to read
-i can vote someone and have an effect even if no one else votes that person
cons: -impossible to zoom out far enough to see the whole setup without scrolling
-being scum would be really, really, really bad
-there might be redirectors (<<<<<<<<< they might be giants)
-i kind of need to get better at getting other people to vote that person
so :-\
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I will be VLA July 4--9; just posting in case the game might start next week.
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/probable hammer if someone L-1s.
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-everyone in playerlist ez to read
Really?
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;D
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/tag
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Only 1 spot here! Noone willing to take it?
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/in
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good
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ash, can you confirm your hammer?
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/confirmed!
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Shiny!
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PMs coming in the next few minutes! N0 will last 24 hours. Please read everything, confirm and ask any question you might have in your QT.
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Times have been difficult. Having two wanted guests on board, Serenity and her crew were forced to retreat from the central Alliance-controlled territory closer to the outer planets. Even here, they could feel the pressure. The prices on the heads of River and Simon Tam would inspire bounty hunters to try their luck would they ever be exposed.
During the last job, their previous business contact Badger had tried to double-cross them - apparently he too was willing to cooperate with the Alliance if it was worth his while. Captain Malcolm Reynolds and his crew narrowly escaped, forced to leave behind the cargo they meant to trade. Now they were still out there, free, yet with dwindling ressources. Supplies were ever harder to come by, and tensions among the crew on the rise.
Day 1 begins!
Current energy level: 25
Serenity uses 10 energy per night.
Vote Count 1.0
Not Voting (9): Teproc, Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, 2.71828...., LaLight, ashersky
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 last until Friday, July 14, 7:30 am forum time.
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vote: ww
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Hi. I think energy is important.
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I'm open to suggestions on energy management that don't include much claiming, if any. If any explanation without those would make it hard to follow your train of thought, probably better yo stay quiet.
I do worry that given the importance of energy, scum powers are skewed toward it. Generally, they might tend toward robbery over killing, for example.
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Please take into consideration the importance of flipping with the most useful information to your fellow townies, btw. You can pre-select your flip info, please get something down now.
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Guys, prepared in advance thoughts of the setup:
This setup is a feast of PoE. And the feast of WIFOM also. Let's talk about mass flavor claiming. And partial claiming.
The game can be won by town without ever lynching someone. This means, I guess, that either there is a vig, or some missions kill scum on them. More thoughts here would be appreciated. No Lynch here is good, because we will have more time to execute more missions and try to PoE by sending scum on missions and see if they fail or not. But! There is a little WIFOM here, because I for one, know that there is a mission which will automatically fail if I am on it. I wonder if everyone has the same. That's why I propose flavor claiming.
Pros:
1) we can sort out the missions and why they fail if they fail
2) Some of my powers aren't working on people who has some flavor names
Cons:
1) The captain will be outed (draft position is based on flavor. I didn't watch the show, but reached the wiki)
2) maybe some scum powers don't work on people with some flavor names?
There is 7 of us. There is 2 of them. We should be able to PoE very well if we just go and do missions.
Also, I have an optional idea to claim one of 3 powers. First thing, by the way: don't forget to submit which power will be flipped when you die in case you didn't see this in setup (I am looking at you, pps ;) ). I, for one, has one useless power. We may claim the most useless power because it serves some purposes:
1) Scum will correct their actions due to powers we may or may not use. We will give them their WIFOM back!
2) It will be easier to see what's going on in the setup
3) Scum will be forced to claim their night actions that look the most townie and if later they won't use it, it will look suspicious so they will be forced to use townie powers.
I think that scum has powers that directly influence ship's energy and also powers that can sabotage a mission. Partial claim of the powers will really mess up with them if they somehow will decide not to use it.
Some more random thoughts:
I'm pretty sure the initial captain is not scum
we should be concerned about ship energy, but not too much. It's pretty straightforward: we earn it on missions and lose it at night. Not really anything to talk about
I think in the end of the day we should consolidate our votes on ~2 people: the one we want to lynch (if we want to) and the one we want to be a captain. Scattering the votes around will only confuse us (that said, let's not do RVS plz). If we will end the day with the scummiest player having the most votes, he will be a captain! So be careful, please.
Don't be afraid to refuse a mission! Sometimes Captain will have shitty choice of mission so it would be better to carry on the regular day. Or give a choice to the First Mate.
Actually I think this game is less Mafia and more some crazy interesting bord game I would gladly play. So I'm playing. eager to listen to your thoughts!
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Hi. I think energy is important.
No kidding. It's only scum's wincon after all. Reminds me of water in your Dune game kinda, though I didn't read the sequel to that.
Could everyone state their degree of familiarity with the show ? I'm a big fan, I know ash is not but he has seen a few episodes at least...
Flavor is obviously really important, and anyone familiar with the show already knows who the first two ranks are for example (flavor wise I mean), and probably has a good guess as to the whole hierarchy and a few of the PRs.
PPE: 3
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I'm open to suggestions on energy management that don't include much claiming, if any. If any explanation without those would make it hard to follow your train of thought, probably better yo stay quiet.
I do worry that given the importance of energy, scum powers are skewed toward it. Generally, they might tend toward robbery over killing, for example.
What exactly is energy management? How can we influence it other than through missions?
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Hi. I think energy is important.
No kidding. It's only scum's wincon after all. Reminds me of water in your Dune game kinda, though I didn't read the sequel to that.
Could everyone state their degree of familiarity with the show ? I'm a big fan, I know ash is not but he has seen a few episodes at least...
Flavor is obviously really important, and anyone familiar with the show already knows who the first two ranks are for example (flavor wise I mean), and probably has a good guess as to the whole hierarchy and a few of the PRs.
PPE: 3
Haven't seen unfortunately. I know that the main character is Captain Hammer.
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I have seen the entire series and movie. I just don't like it.
I agree that flavor is probably tied to initial ranks -- and have a pretty good reason to believe so.
I actually don't think flavor claiming hurts here, unless we really worry about manipulating captaincy. But that manipulation will be hard to hide, so I'm not worried.
I disagree with some of LL's findings, but like that he put so much thought into this.
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I'm open to suggestions on energy management that don't include much claiming, if any. If any explanation without those would make it hard to follow your train of thought, probably better yo stay quiet.
I do worry that given the importance of energy, scum powers are skewed toward it. Generally, they might tend toward robbery over killing, for example.
What exactly is energy management? How can we influence it other than through missions?
Well, there could be Town powers that affect how much energy is used/obtained/needed/lost, etc. there are the missions, of course. There's contraband, and when to trade them in.
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I have seen the entire series and movie. I just don't like it.
I agree that flavor is probably tied to initial ranks -- and have a pretty good reason to believe so.
I actually don't think flavor claiming hurts here, unless we really worry about manipulating captaincy. But that manipulation will be hard to hide, so I'm not worried.
I disagree with some of LL's findings, but like that he put so much thought into this.
Yeah, flavor claim would be good.
What do you disagree with? :) Let's talk
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Re: LL's big theory post
Vigs are definitely possible flavor wise. I can think of at least two characters who are pretty likely to have vig-like powers (in very different way), and really almost all of the characters except for, let's say three of them, could conceivably have killing capabilities.
We all (I think) know about one mission, but you're inferring a lot... and that's kind of indicative of your flavor already, unfortunately.
Definitely agree about no lynching day 1, missions seem more useful in every way. Also we can use votes to manipulate rank if we wish to.
Flavor claiming will out at least one protective role (Simon, who's a doctor in the show). I guess this is less of a big deal given the energy wincon for scum I suppose.
I very much disagree with your assumption about the initial captain not being scum. It's clearly stated in the OP that flavor is not indicative of alignment.
Also you misunderstand votes v rank. THe most votes you have, the worse it is for your rank. You want a low rank (captain is 1 at the start) to be in charge.
PPE: 5
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I'm open to suggestions on energy management that don't include much claiming, if any. If any explanation without those would make it hard to follow your train of thought, probably better yo stay quiet.
I do worry that given the importance of energy, scum powers are skewed toward it. Generally, they might tend toward robbery over killing, for example.
What exactly is energy management? How can we influence it other than through missions?
Well, there could be Town powers that affect how much energy is used/obtained/needed/lost, etc. there are the missions, of course. There's contraband, and when to trade them in.
Then we can't talk about this management without partial claiming.
I think that Contraband is quite secondary in this game. If we convert it to energy, that would be awesome, but here's the thing: highly unlikely and useless would be to have this mission D1 and who knows who can be captain alignmentwise D2 and after
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I will reiterate that the D1 captain can very much be scum, this is very clear in the OP.
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Re: LL's big theory post
Vigs are definitely possible flavor wise. I can think of at least two characters who are pretty likely to have vig-like powers (in very different way), and really almost all of the characters except for, let's say three of them, could conceivably have killing capabilities.
We all (I think) know about one mission, but you're inferring a lot... and that's kind of indicative of your flavor already, unfortunately.
Definitely agree about no lynching day 1, missions seem more useful in every way. Also we can use votes to manipulate rank if we wish to.
Flavor claiming will out at least one protective role (Simon, who's a doctor in the show). I guess this is less of a big deal given the energy wincon for scum I suppose.
I very much disagree with your assumption about the initial captain not being scum. It's clearly stated in the OP that flavor is not indicative of alignment.
Also you misunderstand votes v rank. THe most votes you have, the worse it is for your rank. You want a low rank (captain is 1 at the start) to be in charge.
PPE: 5
oh. I guess I should've watched the show in 24 hours I had... I actually mean it, no jokes.
noted about vigs
I don't think I outed myself given the following:
All other missions are unique. The order in which missions are distributed is predetermined and non-random. Every player has a "special" mission card in which their flavor name is mentioned. They will know what this mission card is.
using votes is good, actually.
Doctor is not really useful given that he can go onto a mission and scum can kill out of the mission... I guess it's doctor+ tho. I don't know. Also he can be scum also :)
voted vs rank noted, I was thinking it's the other way around the whole time.
Thanks!
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@Teproc, @ash, @others who watched, may I ask you to make a list of people on the ship = possible mafia roles (preferably town/scum) for them?
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I mean that your mission failing because you're on it significantly narrows down who your flavor could be, to me.
While I certainly won't suggest you watch it for this game in particular (it's an advantage but whatever), you should, it's a great show, don't listen to ash on that one. It's possibly overrated, as any geeky phenomenon tends to end up being, but still.
Well I'll give you a list. I'm not actually sure how mafia roles work right now, it could be that they just have the roles they'd normally have and maybe some stuff generically added on for balance ? I'm not sure I want to speculate publicly about what the roles might be right now anyway, though I'll give it consideration. I guess I'll give brief descriptions.
Malcolm Reynolds, the Captain, undoubtedly rank 1 right now.
Zoe (Zoey ?, whatever), the First Mate, undoubtedly rank 2 right now.
Wash, the pilot
Jayne, the muscle
Kaylee, the mechanic
That's the actual crew. Then there's
Inara, high-class escort, resident on the ship but has her own shuttle
Book, a shepherd, just travelling on the ship and happens to like it there so he stays
Then the two fugitives mentioned in the opening flavor
Simon, doctor fleeing the alliance because of
River, his sister who was experimented on and has weird psychic shit going on.
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Ranks after Mal and Zoe are up for debate, especially for Inara, but the order I gave them in is roughly what I'd guess them to be, with Jayne probably over Wash and Inara over Kaylee.
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Hi folks! Here are some thoughts as I read:
I also agree that energy is going to be crucial. Losing 10 energy every day is not going to leave us with a lot of wiggle room. If scum do have powers to affect energy (as LaLight predicted) we need to treat the first mission as critical, I think. I'm used to similar mission rules from Avalon and The Resistance, where you can afford to lose a mission or two to root out the scum. That might not be the case here.
I am wary of dismissing contraband, like LL has done. Anything that gets us energy deserves our attention. Makes me wonder if contraband could somehow be bad for some characters/abilities?
We should be very sure before we start any kind of claiming. I'm getting the impression that flavour is very informative of powers, and vice versa. I'll hear arguments in favour, but I think we ought to be cautious.
Firefly is great and I love it.
PPE: 4
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I doubt we can't afford to lose a mission, or this would be a very easy game for scum.
Also I should mention that the rank speculation is what I thought before the game, not taking into consideration extra-info I've gotten since (ie my own rank). I suspect anyone familiar with the show would have very similar guesses which I why I'm sharing them for LL and others who're unfamiliar with it.
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I doubt we can't afford to lose a mission, or this would be a very easy game for scum.
Also I should mention that the rank speculation is what I thought before the game, not taking into consideration extra-info I've gotten since (ie my own rank). I suspect anyone familiar with the show would have very similar guesses which I why I'm sharing them for LL and others who're unfamiliar with it.
I agree about the ranks. I don't agree about the missions. If scum can affect energy levels, we could easily be left with less than 10 energy on D2. I don't want to be in that position.
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I'm just saying taht from a simple balance standpoint, if scum could win just by getting on the first mission and faiilng it, the game wouldn't work. But it depends on the mission chosen of course.
I guess it's fine to speculate about what flavor might lead to what type of PR. Unlikely that scum doesn't know the flavor, and even if that's the case they have Wikipedia.
Mal: Somthing related to being the Captain and going on missions, would be my guess. Possibly to contraband. For typical mafia roles I don't know.
Zoe: Could be a Lover with Wash obviously, or have something related to Mal for that matter (they're war-buddies). Maybe a pro-town powers related to missions.
Jayne: Vig or PGO type-things seem likely. Also likely to have an anti-town power, maybe related to missions.
Wash: No clue, aside from possibly Lover with Zoe. Maybe weird powers using energy since he's the pilot ?
Kaylee: Energy-related stuff I guess.
Inara: Investigative maybe ? Unsure.
Book: Could also be investigative, but could also be a protective role, even something Vig-like.
Simon: Protective role.
River: Chaos ! Triggered by something, but probably very powerful and insane. Probably extremely swingy role.
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Again, tried my best not to use the inormation I do have, please do not read into it. Unless you're scum, then feel free.
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@Teproc, @ash, @others who watched, may I ask you to make a list of people on the ship = possible mafia roles (preferably town/scum) for them?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Firefly_characters
The ones under the first heading are the 9 in this game, I'd wager.
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I doubt we can't afford to lose a mission, or this would be a very easy game for scum.
Also I should mention that the rank speculation is what I thought before the game, not taking into consideration extra-info I've gotten since (ie my own rank). I suspect anyone familiar with the show would have very similar guesses which I why I'm sharing them for LL and others who're unfamiliar with it.
Again, tried my best not to use the inormation I do have, please do not read into it. Unless you're scum, then feel free.
This amount of self-awareness isn't helping you. Besides, every player knows their own flavor, role, and rank. They can plug themselves into your guesses to help determine your own.
I don't think this is scummy or anything, but it's more revealing than you think.
Should have just linked a Wikipedia page or something.
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@Teproc, @ash, @others who watched, may I ask you to make a list of people on the ship = possible mafia roles (preferably town/scum) for them?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Firefly_characters
The ones under the first heading are the 9 in this game, I'd wager.
I think i just read a huge spoiler about Wash...
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Yeah, I know ash. In a normal game I'd agree, but this is RMM and flavour is the whole reason I'm playing, so whatever.
Don't get what you mean by "plugging themselves into your guesses" though. If I'm correct/incorrect, how does that help scum figure things out ?
In any case, I think I'm favourable to some claiming at least, but let's wait for everyone to show up.
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I just meant, assume you are Simon, and no one else knows this.
Now you listed your own thinking of how the rank order would go on the ship. If you lied about your own rank, the person who actually has that rank now knows something about you. If you told the truth, paradoxically, no one knows that.
Any of your guesses that were wrong, well of course those players already know you aren't right, but now they also know you don't have the rank where you put them. So if you put Rain in the wrong place, the player who is Rain knows that you are not ranked where you put Rain.
WIFOM means you could have done this on purpose, though. So it helps, but still, there is now plenty of thinking to be done about you, Teproc, given that post.
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I feel like a lot of speculation is possible, but until we get our first mission, the game will be generally reserved.
I guess I'm sort of claiming "not captain" by making this Post, and we're all sort of doing the same thing given we've all posted here and nothing has been provided to us regarding the mission.
Then again, this is the sort of post the captain might make to hide, right?
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Here, don't know the flavor.
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It's a good thing I said my ranking was not precise except for the first two.
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It's worth us chatting and speculating now to generate (albeit limited) info for the captain to choose a team. Again, I'm used to Avalon where you can generate a good deal of information by rejecting the initial team suggests to see who picks who. We don't have the same luxury here, so better to give the captain as many reads as possible.
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We do have some time for that, 72 hours, and we do get a second chance. That's a lot less than in Resistance - I'm also an Avalon player btw - but still, we have some time for theory.
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I don't know the flavor, I do understand the game and my role in it.
Based on my understanding I have two points:
1) voting should be used to change the captain more than lynching. At least D1/D2 until we have more stuff (mission success/failure) to work with.
2) it is most beneficial for us if I am not on mission, unless it is my flavor-specific mission.
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I'm just disappointed that I didn't get to be a WWII tank.
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A mission card has been played!
Deal with a wealthy merchant
"Why, Banning Miller! What a vision you are in your fine dress. It must have taken a dozen slaves a dozen days to get you into that getup. 'Course, your daddy tells me it takes the space of a schoolboy's wink to get you out of it again."
Cost: 10 energy
Conditions: 3/3 // 3/3
Success: 35 energy
Special success (Inara): Next mission failure effects are ignored.
Failure: highest-ranking crew member arrested (roleblocked and unable to perform missions the following day)
If Inara Serra is part of this mission, it will take 1 success submission less to complete. It can only be a special success if there are no failures submitted.
The proposed crew is:
LaLight, Teproc, CheesyJelly
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Vote Count 1.1
Witherweaver (1): ashersky
Not Voting (8): Teproc, Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, 2.71828...., LaLight
Mission proposal: LaLight, Teproc, CheesyJelly
Accept (0)
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (9): Teproc, Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, 2.71828...., LaLight, ashersky
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 last until Friday, July 14, 7:30 am forum time.
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So. Should inara serra out themselves for this mission? I don't know that the benefits are worth it, but maybe.
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we don't know if Inara is town tho
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we don't know if Inara is town tho
True, but the special success doesn't depend on town or scum, just flavor. We don't know if LaLight teproc or CJ are scum either. It's not a question of town/scum here as much as how much flavor do we want to reveal and how soon should we reveal it. And what information can be learned from that
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And the benefit of having inara on mission (with success) is definitely pro-town
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actually yeah. If Inara is town, then either mission will be successful or the team will consist of Inara and two scums.
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I should be on this mission.
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Refuse
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actually yeah. If Inara is town, then either mission will be successful or the team will consist of Inara and two scums.
? I am not sure how you conclude this
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Refuse
@gkrieg: you're Inara?
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If Inara Serra is part of this mission, it will take 1 success submission less to complete. It can only be a special success if there are no failures submitted.
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actually yeah. If Inara is town, then either mission will be successful or the team will consist of Inara and two scums.
? I am not sure how you conclude this
if Inara is on the mission, it needs 2 people to success it. if the mission will be unsuccessful, and Inara is town, then two other people posted "Failure" so they are scum
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Refuse
@gkrieg: you're Inara?
Ya, I see no point in masking flavor names, especially if I'm not 1st or 2nd in the draft order.
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Refuse
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actually yeah. If Inara is town, then either mission will be successful or the team will consist of Inara and two scums.
? I am not sure how you conclude this
if Inara is on the mission, it needs 2 people to success it. if the mission will be unsuccessful, and Inara is town, then two other people posted "Failure" so they are scum
But we won't know that gkrieg is town, will we?
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@First mate I want CheesyJelly and Awaclus on the mission with me
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actually yeah. If Inara is town, then either mission will be successful or the team will consist of Inara and two scums.
? I am not sure how you conclude this
if Inara is on the mission, it needs 2 people to success it. if the mission will be unsuccessful, and Inara is town, then two other people posted "Failure" so they are scum
Ok yeah.
Refuse
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@First mate I want CheesyJelly and Awaclus on the mission with me
:(
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@First mate I want CheesyJelly and Awaclus on the mission with me
Actually, CheesyJelly and Teproc.
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@First mate I want CheesyJelly and Awaclus on the mission with me
Actually, CheesyJelly and Teproc.
:( :(
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@First mate I want CheesyJelly and Awaclus on the mission with me
:(
Sorry, I want people that I think are hard for me to read. I have no idea what CJ will look like as scum, and it has been too long/I don't think I have a good way to read Teproc anymore.
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Vote: Refuse
It doesn't matter if gkrieg is scum. Here's what I had written before gkrieg responded:Scum!Inara:
- If only scum on team, if they submit a fail, the mission still succeeds, we know 1 out of the 3 are scum and we get 35 energy.
- If two scum are on team, either the above happens, or they both fail. The mission fails, but we know where all the scum are.
- Scum!Inara would likely prefer to not out themselves, and might even try to avoid being on the team. If we call for Inara to reveal, then we might learn Inara's alignment.
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Sorry. "scum!Inara" should have been in its own line. I think it still makes sense.
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Hm.
Refuse
I'm fine with gkrieg's proposal, though I'm curious what lead him to these two ?
I think the first mate should not submit immediately. Assuming we agree on what gkrieg proposed, we still will want time, to arrange votes if nothing else.
PPE: 5
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I would much rather not be on the mission.
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I would much rather not be on the mission.
Want to explain?
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I would much rather not be on the mission.
Want to explain?
Not particularly.
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I would much rather not be on the mission.
Want to explain?
it's kinda obvious, sorry
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gkrieg's immediate claim is a townie move. Scum might have waited until a consensus about Inara claiming formed, because them being on the mission really helps town, a lot. It looks like a strong mission and the special success is really good too.
Maybe we should just do a normal day, just not lynching and being very, very careful not to get too close to lynch numbers.
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refuse
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Can't scum pass the mission, thereby not outing themselves and appearing towny? I think folks are forgetting that.
35 energy is a lot, though. They might find the risk worth it.
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Can't scum pass the mission, thereby not outing themselves and appearing towny? I think folks are forgetting that.
35 energy is a lot, though. They might find the risk worth it.
exactly the latter
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Can't scum pass the mission, thereby not outing themselves and appearing towny? I think folks are forgetting that.
35 energy is a lot, though. They might find the risk worth it.
Well, obviously. I don't think anyone was planning to make ICs out of the people passing the mission.
Both scenarios are good for us. But I do think we should strive to include the towniest people possible on the mission.
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Actually, scratch that. NO way scum tank the mission, they need two fails. Worth essentially 45 energy, which is a lot, but then we get to lynch in a pool of three and everyone else is an IC ? Right.
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something tells me ash is scum. I can't put it into words though
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Vote Count 1.2
Witherweaver (1): ashersky
Not Voting (8): Teproc, Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, 2.71828...., LaLight
Mission proposal: LaLight, Teproc, CheesyJelly
Accept (0)
Refuse (5): gkrieg13, Awaclus, LaLight, 2.71828....., CheesyJelly
Not Voting (4): Teproc, Witherweaver, pingpongsam, ashersky
The proposal fails! First Mate phase begins.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 last until Friday, July 14, 7:30 am forum time.
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Are there still 2 people that haven't even posted yet? Wow we are making quick work of these phases.
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No need to rush to fill a mission First Mate!
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I'm actually fine treating gkrieg as town for today. This is a horrible situation for scum I think... I mean maybe they have powers to make this less terrible, and maybe scum!gkrieg just didn't quite realize how bad it was, but I doubt it, especially because he would be familiar with the mission already.
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By which I mean: I think gkrieg should, after we play normally for a while, decide who he wants to be on the mission with, and the first mate should submit that.
On to the normal portion of the game then (as far as I'm concerned anywyay, obviously people are missing). Well, no one is scummy yet, but gkrieg and I think LL are townie, so there's that.
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Actually, scratch that. NO way scum tank the mission, they need two fails. Worth essentially 45 energy, which is a lot, but then we get to lynch in a pool of three and everyone else is an IC ? Right.
45? Where is that number from?
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We lose 10 and don't gain 35.
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Are there still 2 people that haven't even posted yet? Wow we are making quick work of these phases.
Yeah. WW is VLA too.
I think it's fine to make progress though, that'll keep the game from getting stagnant and it's a small game so no need to worry about people not being able to catch up so much.
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We lose 10 and don't gain 35.
We lose 10 every night. To say it's like losing 45 is weird and untrue.
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We lose 10 and don't gain 35.
We lose 10 every night. To say it's like losing 45 is weird and untrue.
We lose 10 as a cost for the mission. I actually completely forgot we lost 10 every night. That changes things.
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So if two scum fail the mission, we're at 10 at the start of the night. We lose 10 at the end of it and lose. Obviously stuff can happen on both sides in the night... hm. I guess we'll just have to not send two scum, should be doable right ?
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Wait no, we'd be at 15, we start at 15. We're fine.
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start at 25*
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Hi. I'm VLA all weekend.
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Actually, scratch that. NO way scum tank the mission, they need two fails. Worth essentially 45 energy, which is a lot, but then we get to lynch in a pool of three and everyone else is an IC ? Right.
I'm not completely following, maybe because I'm reading out of order. What do you mean by tank? You mean accept it and submit "Fail"?
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Read more.
Refuse
Gut instinct Gkrieg is town.
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Is the format "Vote: Accept/Refuse" or just Accept/Refuse?
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unvote. I guess Rvs ain't a thing.
Also think gkrieg is town. Future captains should look for missions where a claim puts scum in a bind like this.
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Is the format "Vote: Accept/Refuse" or just Accept/Refuse?
Doesn't matter, it already failed to pass.
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Is the format "Vote: Accept/Refuse" or just Accept/Refuse?
Just Accept/Refuse. Vote: Refuse will be counted also, since it contains Refuse.
Just you know, don't suddenly decide to give Awaclus the nickname "Refuse".
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A new crew has been proposed for this mission:
Deal with a wealthy merchant
"Why, Banning Miller! What a vision you are in your fine dress. It must have taken a dozen slaves a dozen days to get you into that getup. 'Course, your daddy tells me it takes the space of a schoolboy's wink to get you out of it again."
Cost: 10 energy
Conditions: 3/3 // 3/3
Success: 35 energy
Special success (Inara): Next mission failure effects are ignored.
Failure: highest-ranking crew member arrested (roleblocked and unable to perform missions the following day)
If Inara Serra is part of this mission, it will take 1 success submission less to complete. It can only be a special success if there are no failures submitted.
The proposed crew is:
Awaclus, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly
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Vote Count 1.3
Not Voting (9): Teproc, Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, 2.71828...., LaLight
Mission proposal: Awaclus, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly
Accept (0)
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (9): Teproc, Witherweaver, pingpongsam, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus, LaLight, 2.71828....., CheesyJelly
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 last until Friday, July 14, 7:30 am forum time.
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Accept
-
accept
-
Accept
-
Accept
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Vote Count 1.4
Not Voting (9): Teproc, Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, 2.71828...., LaLight
Mission proposal: Awaclus, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly
Accept (4): LaLight, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, Awaclus
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (5): Teproc, Witherweaver, ashersky, 2.71828....., CheesyJelly
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 last until Friday, July 14, 7:30 am forum time.
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Are we still in favour of taking our time before ending D1?
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I accept, and don't see why we shouldn't go for it. Other things to discuss?
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I do wonder if we can learn anything from the order of the proposed names. It isn't alphabetical, so perhaps it's the order submitted to the mod.
Town will always include themselves I think.
This gives me at least one strong town read.
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Well, we had talked about using our votes to manipulate the ranks. Depends if we're happy with captain's first pick today.
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I, for one, am concerned that we may have a scummy captain.
-
I do wonder if we can learn anything from the order of the proposed names. It isn't alphabetical, so perhaps it's the order submitted to the mod.
Looks like sign-up order which is being maintained in the vote counts.
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Do we want to out the captain? Because if we start to discuss whether or not the captain was scummy, that'll probably happen at least to great extent.
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We should've thought about outing captain earlier so he can go on mission to be safe
-
Now it's pointless at least
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Don't know why we're in such a rush ? PPS hasn't even posted yet... really don't like this. Well I do like our overall situation, but neither the fast proposition nor the fast votes.
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Crew seems fine to me though.
Everyone needs to decide on their flip if they haven't done so. And I don't think th day should finish before PPS has the chance to check in.
I don't think there's any particular reason to vote for people right now, unless CJ wants to go further with his reasoning, which I'm not sure he does ?
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Don't know why we're in such a rush ? PPS hasn't even posted yet... really don't like this. Well I do like our overall situation, but neither the fast proposition nor the fast votes.
pps just posted a couple of times.
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I do wonder if we can learn anything from the order of the proposed names. It isn't alphabetical, so perhaps it's the order submitted to the mod.
Town will always include themselves I think.
This gives me at least one strong town read.
Disagree, but I suppose that can be discussed tomorrow.
PPE: Oh yeah. Was his accept his first post ? Looks lik it was.
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I guess I don't see why we need to do much to the order.
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The flip stuff is a gpod point. Everyone should confirm ITT that they've chosen a flip before we end the day.
I've chosen mine.
-
I just chose mine. I'm around but super busy as it seems that while I took some time off nobody did my work for me (as if they could).
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I have chosen my flip. I guess people can hammer once everyone has stated this.
Do not vote for anyone either. Well we can have a discussion about it, but for now I'm assuming the consensus to be taht the day should end with no votes at all.
-
Well wait, if we think someone is scummy, we really should vote for them.
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Well wait, if we think someone is scummy, we really should vote for them.
Agreed, Vote: Gkrieg
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Well wait, if we think someone is scummy, we really should vote for them.
It's either this:
- we end the day quickly. The benefits are that scum don't know what the lynch dynamics might be if we decide to lynch tomorrow.
- we don't end the day quickly, and play a normal game, just being careful not to lynch and ending with votes on whoever we think is scummy.
If you wanted to do the latter, why did you accept in five seconds ? I don't think ending the day with three people voting afte rvery little discussion is a great position to be in.
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Well wait, if we think someone is scummy, we really should vote for them.
Agreed, Vote: Gkrieg
Are you serious right now?
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I did my flip thing already. I'll point out that I mentioned this at the beginning of the day as being important.
I don't know that we need to change the captain yet -- let's see what happens with the current mission.
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Unless we all make terrible scum reads, voting (without intending to lynch) should push town to the top ranks and scum to the bottom, stopping them from getting any say over the missions.
I have assigned my flip.
PPE: 4
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I have assigned the flip
vote: ashersky
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Well wait, if we think someone is scummy, we really should vote for them.
Agreed, Vote: Gkrieg
Are you serious right now?
If he's joking, that's an amazingly anti-town thing to do.
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Unless we all make terrible scum reads, voting (without intending to lynch) should push town to the top ranks and scum to the bottom, stopping them from getting any say over the missions.
I have assigned my flip.
PPE: 4
The problem is that it's unjustified voting, so there's no accountability. Scum reads can be wrong, and scum also gets to vote against people they perceive to be dangerous for whatever reason. If we do a full day, sure... but I think that would demand doing things like talking about who we think the captain and first mate are, and why they did what they did etc.
If we don't want to talk about that, we shouldn't vote at all I think.
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Have not set my flip. Connection here is spotty.
I am also bourboning.
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Well wait, if we think someone is scummy, we really should vote for them.
Agreed, Vote: Gkrieg
Boo
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Unless we all make terrible scum reads, voting (without intending to lynch) should push town to the top ranks and scum to the bottom, stopping them from getting any say over the missions.
I have assigned my flip.
PPE: 4
The problem is that it's unjustified voting, so there's no accountability. Scum reads can be wrong, and scum also gets to vote against people they perceive to be dangerous for whatever reason. If we do a full day, sure... but I think that would demand doing things like talking about who we think the captain and first mate are, and why they did what they did etc.
If we don't want to talk about that, we shouldn't vote at all I think.
I entirely disagree. What I'm suggesting here is not the same as a co-ordinated manipulation of ranks. It actually just involves voting for who you think is scummy to decrease the likelihood of that player having extra choice/power.
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Have not set my flip. Connection here is spotty.
I am also bourboning.
You win roleplay points.
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Have not set my flip. Connection here is spotty.
I am also bourboning.
You win roleplay points.
I'll be in my bunk.
Also, I set my flip now.
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Unless we all make terrible scum reads, voting (without intending to lynch) should push town to the top ranks and scum to the bottom, stopping them from getting any say over the missions.
I have assigned my flip.
PPE: 4
The problem is that it's unjustified voting, so there's no accountability. Scum reads can be wrong, and scum also gets to vote against people they perceive to be dangerous for whatever reason. If we do a full day, sure... but I think that would demand doing things like talking about who we think the captain and first mate are, and why they did what they did etc.
If we don't want to talk about that, we shouldn't vote at all I think.
I entirely disagree. What I'm suggesting here is not the same as a co-ordinated manipulation of ranks. It actually just involves voting for who you think is scummy to decrease the likelihood of that player having extra choice/power.
This is also what I'm talking about...
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Have not set my flip. Connection here is spotty.
I am also bourboning.
You win roleplay points.
Also, I set my flip now.
Shiny !
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Well wait, if we think someone is scummy, we really should vote for them.
Agreed, Vote: Gkrieg
Are you serious right now?
While somewhat tongue in cheek that was definitely the scummiest thing I had seen all day so I was just following direction.
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SO it was scummy to call for people to vote... but you're intending to leave your vote on him ?
Any consideration to the fact that gkrieg didn't hesitate at all to claim Inara ?
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Well wait, if we think someone is scummy, we really should vote for them.
Agreed, Vote: Gkrieg
Are you serious right now?
While somewhat tongue in cheek that was definitely the scummiest thing I had seen all day so I was just following direction.
What I was saying is that leaving things as they are seems bad. Why shouldn't we try to sink the scums lower in the ordering?
What happens if the Captain and the First Mate die, and because we didn't do anything, scummy mcscumster and his partner are now in charge of the mission? Even if we think the Captain and First Mate are townies, we should still make scum sink in the order.
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SO it was scummy to call for people to vote... but you're intending to leave your vote on him ?
Any consideration to the fact that gkrieg didn't hesitate at all to claim Inara ?
Actually I was intending to get a reaction. Does Inara have to be town by necessity?
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Well wait, if we think someone is scummy, we really should vote for them.
Agreed, Vote: Gkrieg
Are you serious right now?
While somewhat tongue in cheek that was definitely the scummiest thing I had seen all day so I was just following direction.
What I was saying is that leaving things as they are seems bad. Why shouldn't we try to sink the scums lower in the ordering?
I don't disagree except that at the point of your posting I hadn't seen anything at all that could inform a scum read so it struck me quite odd to suggest that we start voting scum reads.
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SO it was scummy to call for people to vote... but you're intending to leave your vote on him ?
Any consideration to the fact that gkrieg didn't hesitate at all to claim Inara ?
Actually I was intending to get a reaction. Does Inara have to be town by necessity?
Have you read the whole thread ? Flavor and alignment are unrelated, but Inara claiming was very, very pro-town... scum would have had to do it eventually, but gkrieg didn't hesitate at all, where I think scum would have tried to see if people were afraid enough of claiming to get away with not doing it.
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gkrieg, you haven't answered my question. If you think this, why the hell did you accept immediately ? I actually agree, but now we're in a situation where anyone can end the day anytime they want, which I don't like at all.
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gkrieg, you haven't answered my question. If you think this, why the hell did you accept immediately ? I actually agree, but now we're in a situation where anyone can end the day anytime they want, which I don't like at all.
I didn't realize that the day ended when the majority had accepted. In hindsight, I definitely should have waited, so that we could have discussion and vote and stuff.
-
Unvote
-
I did read the setup, but there is a lot of stuff to parse, and I tend to not realize something is super important, until it is actually super important.
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SO it was scummy to call for people to vote... but you're intending to leave your vote on him ?
Any consideration to the fact that gkrieg didn't hesitate at all to claim Inara ?
Actually I was intending to get a reaction. Does Inara have to be town by necessity?
No.* Your vote strikes me as scum taking a strong position of a contentious issue to appear town, through a "scum doesn't like to be overt" implied defense.
My read on Gkrieg isn't because of his flavor, but because of how he claimed.
*Well, if flavor is alignment indicative Inara should be town. But it could in theory be a safe fake claim for scum and there is no actual Inara to satisfy the condition. Though typing that out now it occurs to me that such a situation makes it potentially unsafe.
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We still can discuss. I think only scum would hammer before we've managed to discuss further.
Teproc: Voting for who you think scum is required zero conversation about who might be Captain.
Are votes like this within PPS's meta? It's so brazenly anti-town that I don't know what to make of it...
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Can we stop saying flavor indicates assignment. Set-up clearly states that two characters were chosen to be scum at random.
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Guys, it's clearly stated in the setup that flavor is not indicative of alignment in any way. There are no fake claims.
The flavor names in the game are the names of the characters that form the permanent crew of Serenity in the TV series Firefly. Knowledge of the series will improve your game experience. Two of these have been randomly selected as mafia. Every player has exactly three special abilities. Some may be negative utility for their own faction.
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We still can discuss. I think only scum would hammer before we've managed to discuss further.
Teproc: Voting for who you think scum is required zero conversation about who might be Captain.
Are votes like this within PPS's meta? It's so brazenly anti-town that I don't know what to make of it...
Well I'm curious what else you were getting alignment from then, besides gkrieg's claim, and you specifically mentioned thinking the captain was scummy.
Yes.
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SO it was scummy to call for people to vote... but you're intending to leave your vote on him ?
Any consideration to the fact that gkrieg didn't hesitate at all to claim Inara ?
Actually I was intending to get a reaction. Does Inara have to be town by necessity?
No.* Your vote strikes me as scum taking a strong position of a contentious issue to appear town, through a "scum doesn't like to be overt" implied defense.
Yet you seem to be unable to cast your vote on your oh so obvious scum read.
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I think I have a read on who the captain is. I'm also slightly scum-reading that person as scum for unrelated reasons. You're right: MY vote might out who I suspect as Captain. I can hold off voting if we don't want to have that chat. But my suggestion in general doesn't require any role conversations.
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Right, well I think if we do want to all vote for our scum reads, it seems inevitable that this type of stuff will have to come up, is all I'm saying.
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Right, well I think if we do want to all vote for our scum reads, it seems inevitable that this type of stuff will have to come up, is all I'm saying.
Sure. I mean role discussion are inevitable eventually anyway. I just don't see a reason to pass today without voting.
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Vote: LaLight
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Vote: LaLight
I got your line of thinking outside one thing: why am I scummy?
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Can we stop saying flavor indicates assignment. Set-up clearly states that two characters were chosen to be scum at random.
I missed this part. Thanks.
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Vote: LaLight
I got your line of thinking outside one thing: why am I scummy?
Voting me was scummy.
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Vote Count 1.5
ashersky (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): CheesyJelly
Not Voting (7): Teproc, Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, 2.71828....
Mission proposal: Awaclus, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly
Accept (4): LaLight, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, Awaclus
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (5): Teproc, Witherweaver, ashersky, 2.71828....., CheesyJelly
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 last until Friday, July 14, 7:30 am forum time.
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Vote: LaLight
I got your line of thinking outside one thing: why am I scummy?
I haven't liked the way you've played so far. You dropped a ton of theory and then posted very little. I get a sense that you're trying to look helpful and townie whilst subtly pushing a strategy beneficial for you. Your dismissal of contraband has me suspicious, and makes me wonder if it's bad for you in some way. And I can't see anything to back up a vote against ashersky.
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Damn. That'll teach me to try to post from my phone. I'll reply fully soon, can't face typing it out on my phone again.
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Vote: LaLight
I got your line of thinking outside one thing: why am I scummy?
I haven't liked the way you've played so far. You dropped a ton of theory and then posted very little. I get a sense that you're trying to look helpful and townie whilst subtly pushing a strategy beneficial for you. Your dismissal of contraband has me suspicious, and makes me wonder if it's bad for you in some way. And I can't see anything to back up a vote against ashersky.
Removed the size tag for you.
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Also, tiny text is generally forbidden by game rules. Assuming this was an error by mistake, I'm guessing there's no issue, but a good reminder.
(I haven't actually looked to see if faust uses the same rule set as me; mine forbids anything under 10.)
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Vote: LaLight
I got your line of thinking outside one thing: why am I scummy?
I haven't liked the way you've played so far. You dropped a ton of theory and then posted very little. I get a sense that you're trying to look helpful and townie whilst subtly pushing a strategy beneficial for you. Your dismissal of contraband has me suspicious, and makes me wonder if it's bad for you in some way. And I can't see anything to back up a vote against ashersky.
my theory talk was done for discussion in the first place. You think contraband is good? Let's discuss. You think management of energy is important? Let's discuss! I have never told my ppinion is the universal truth, i wanted to speak about setup with people and got pretty much nothing.
My vore for ash is based on his meta and my gut: as town he's much more crazy and active, here he looks very carefully posting.
Contraband is not bad for me at all by the way.
I also am active this time + 4-5 hours, not able to post much later
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Quote fail, but there's my response
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May you please elaborate on what pieces and how favor me out of the setup talk?
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I think Teproc, CJ and gkrieg are town, ash and Awaclus are scum, others null
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Vote: LaLight
I got your line of thinking outside one thing: why am I scummy?
I haven't liked the way you've played so far. You dropped a ton of theory and then posted very little. I get a sense that you're trying to look helpful and townie whilst subtly pushing a strategy beneficial for you. Your dismissal of contraband has me suspicious, and makes me wonder if it's bad for you in some way. And I can't see anything to back up a vote against ashersky.
Removed the size tag for you.
Thank you! No idea how I changed the size of it, and I didn't even see the tiny text on my phone afterwards. Everyone clear that this is what I said? Sorry for the error!
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The game can be won by town without ever lynching someone. This means, I guess, that either there is a vig, or some missions kill scum on them. More thoughts here would be appreciated.
This reads like scum trying to root out the dangerous PRs.
No Lynch here is good, because we will have more time to execute more missions and try to PoE by sending scum on missions and see if they fail or not. But! There is a little WIFOM here, because I for one, know that there is a mission which will automatically fail if I am on it. I wonder if everyone has the same. That's why I propose flavor claiming.
This reads like scum trying to push a no-lynch game so they can rely on an energy drain strategy.
I think that scum has powers that directly influence ship's energy and also powers that can sabotage a mission.
Why do you think this? Because you have such powers?
I'm pretty sure the initial captain is not scum
Zero basis for this claim.
we should be concerned about ship energy, but not too much.
We should be very concerned about ship energy, as it's a lose condition. I'm scum reading anybody who says "Don't worry about energy! It's fine!". Pushing a "Don't lynch but also don't worry about energy" strategy is dangerous and anti-town.
Sometimes Captain will have shitty choice of mission so it would be better to carry on the regular day. Or give a choice to the First Mate.
Will they? I suppose it's possible, but this might also be you setting up some questionable mission choices down the line.
There's also your slow participation afterwards until the moment you were voted. That seems lurky to me, and I'm suspicious of lurky.
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The game can be won by town without ever lynching someone. This means, I guess, that either there is a vig, or some missions kill scum on them. More thoughts here would be appreciated.
This reads like scum trying to root out the dangerous PRs.
These were my thoughts on how can we win without a lynch. I didn't want vig to claim or something, I was trying to build a dialogue, naybe I missed something.
No Lynch here is good, because we will have more time to execute more missions and try to PoE by sending scum on missions and see if they fail or not. But! There is a little WIFOM here, because I for one, know that there is a mission which will automatically fail if I am on it. I wonder if everyone has the same. That's why I propose flavor claiming.
This reads like scum trying to push a no-lynch game so they can rely on an energy drain strategy.
Some people have already agreed No Lynch is a best course of action. We dont want to lower our chances by lynching town.
I think that scum has powers that directly influence ship's energy and also powers that can sabotage a mission.
Why do you think this? Because you have such powers?
Really?
I am pretty sure it's just obvious that we are not facing 1-shot ninja and 1-shot strongman.
I'm pretty sure the initial captain is not scum
Zero basis for this claim.
If you think I am captain you should know what basis I do have. But actually I thought that would be too scumbalanced if we have scum-captain. And yeah, I got that alignment is randomized.
we should be concerned about ship energy, but not too much.
We should be very concerned about ship energy, as it's a lose condition. I'm scum reading anybody who says "Don't worry about energy! It's fine!". Pushing a "Don't lynch but also don't worry about energy" strategy is dangerous and anti-town.
What I meant as I have already pointed out and not once, that speaking about energy right then was pointless and harmful. We couldn't do anything about it at all other than direct claiming of powers. Now we have the mission and we can speak of is it good enough or not. But in the beginning of the game there's not anough info to speak about energy. And I didn't say "don't worry" as you can clearly see.
Sometimes Captain will have shitty choice of mission so it would be better to carry on the regular day. Or give a choice to the First Mate.
Will they? I suppose it's possible, but this might also be you setting up some questionable mission choices down the line.
Setting up questionable mission choices? What does this mean?
There's also your slow participation afterwards until the moment you were voted. That seems lurky to me, and I'm suspicious of lurky.
24 hours from the game start. I have real life, unfortunately, I am not 100% active 24/7. Yesterday I stayed at work for 3 hours more than I wanted to and, well, I worked. Then I came home and went to sleep, because my gf arrived today from another city and I was meeting her quite early. Now I am active.
Anyway, I am not fine with voting for me, don't do this, it may be really harmful for us all.
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my responses are inside this big quote... sorry.
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Anyway, I am not fine with voting for me, don't do this, it may be really harmful for us all.
vote: lalight
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Anyway, I am not fine with voting for me, don't do this, it may be really harmful for us all.
vote: lalight
yeah, sure
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To effectively use my powers I should be as high as possible (insert joke here)
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To effectively use my powers I should be as high as possible (insert joke here)
And we should believe you (or anyone making this claim) why?
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To effectively use my powers I should be as high as possible (insert joke here)
And we should believe you (or anyone making this claim) why?
I am not telling it to make you believe it, I am telling this because this is how it is in reality
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you either believe me and don't vote for me, or don't believe me and vote for me. This is how mafia works.
I can claim and prove I am town but only the next day :(
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LaLight does not seem scummy.
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LaLight does not seem scummy.
Agreed. LaLight mentioned having knowledge of a mission upon which with his presence it automatically fails and speculated if everyone had similar. I can say that I am informed of a mission that will fail with me on it. I'm not sure if this was any basis for suspicion on LaLight but it should not be. I also recall someone specifically saying they should not be on the first proposed party. My expecattion at this point is that all town have specific missions that fail with them on it.
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The game can be won by town without ever lynching someone. This means, I guess, that either there is a vig, or some missions kill scum on them. More thoughts here would be appreciated.
This reads like scum trying to root out the dangerous PRs.
These were my thoughts on how can we win without a lynch. I didn't want vig to claim or something, I was trying to build a dialogue, naybe I missed something.
No Lynch here is good, because we will have more time to execute more missions and try to PoE by sending scum on missions and see if they fail or not. But! There is a little WIFOM here, because I for one, know that there is a mission which will automatically fail if I am on it. I wonder if everyone has the same. That's why I propose flavor claiming.
This reads like scum trying to push a no-lynch game so they can rely on an energy drain strategy.
Some people have already agreed No Lynch is a best course of action. We dont want to lower our chances by lynching town.
I think that scum has powers that directly influence ship's energy and also powers that can sabotage a mission.
Why do you think this? Because you have such powers?
Really?
I am pretty sure it's just obvious that we are not facing 1-shot ninja and 1-shot strongman.
I'm pretty sure the initial captain is not scum
Zero basis for this claim.
If you think I am captain you should know what basis I do have. But actually I thought that would be too scumbalanced if we have scum-captain. And yeah, I got that alignment is randomized.
we should be concerned about ship energy, but not too much.
We should be very concerned about ship energy, as it's a lose condition. I'm scum reading anybody who says "Don't worry about energy! It's fine!". Pushing a "Don't lynch but also don't worry about energy" strategy is dangerous and anti-town.
What I meant as I have already pointed out and not once, that speaking about energy right then was pointless and harmful. We couldn't do anything about it at all other than direct claiming of powers. Now we have the mission and we can speak of is it good enough or not. But in the beginning of the game there's not anough info to speak about energy. And I didn't say "don't worry" as you can clearly see.
Sometimes Captain will have shitty choice of mission so it would be better to carry on the regular day. Or give a choice to the First Mate.
Will they? I suppose it's possible, but this might also be you setting up some questionable mission choices down the line.
Setting up questionable mission choices? What does this mean?
There's also your slow participation afterwards until the moment you were voted. That seems lurky to me, and I'm suspicious of lurky.
24 hours from the game start. I have real life, unfortunately, I am not 100% active 24/7. Yesterday I stayed at work for 3 hours more than I wanted to and, well, I worked. Then I came home and went to sleep, because my gf arrived today from another city and I was meeting her quite early. Now I am active.
Anyway, I am not fine with voting for me, don't do this, it may be really harmful for us all.
@pps, here's the case with my responses
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It doesn't look like your claim was being leveraged against you. That said, I am leveraging it for you, myself, and Teproc.
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I'm not the biggest fan of the CJ case on LaLight. I think it was a well thought-out case, but I don't think it convinces me that LaLight is scum.
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I watched the first episode and I llllove it!
Gkrieg, you are very pretty! :)
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I watched the first episode and I llllove it!
Gkrieg, you are very pretty! :)
[bats eyelashes]
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you either believe me and don't vote for me, or don't believe me and vote for me. This is how mafia works.
I can claim and prove I am town but only the next day :(
I'm not sure what you're saying here. You can be verified as town tomorrow? Or you can claim flavour/role and this will look like town?
Just to say that I'm going to be Limited Access for one week from tomorrow as I'm off on holiday, but should be able to read and post a minimum of twice a day. I'm very happy to hear arguments for unvoting or moving my vote, but they might need to come soon.
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you either believe me and don't vote for me, or don't believe me and vote for me. This is how mafia works.
I can claim and prove I am town but only the next day :(
I'm not sure what you're saying here. You can be verified as town tomorrow? Or you can claim flavour/role and this will look like town?
Just to say that I'm going to be Limited Access for one week from tomorrow as I'm off on holiday, but should be able to read and post a minimum of twice a day. I'm very happy to hear arguments for unvoting or moving my vote, but they might need to come soon.
Tomorrow means D2 by the way.
I just have the power that in my opinion is impossible for scum to have. But I can't do it now. Tomorrow is D2 btw.
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you either believe me and don't vote for me, or don't believe me and vote for me. This is how mafia works.
I can claim and prove I am town but only the next day :(
I'm not sure what you're saying here. You can be verified as town tomorrow? Or you can claim flavour/role and this will look like town?
Just to say that I'm going to be Limited Access for one week from tomorrow as I'm off on holiday, but should be able to read and post a minimum of twice a day. I'm very happy to hear arguments for unvoting or moving my vote, but they might need to come soon.
What do you think about my defence? I really want to convince you I'm town so we can move forward.
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Day 1 lasts until 14th July unless someone (scummily) hammers the mission vote.
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I just have the power that in my opinion is impossible for scum to have.
What part of alignment being randomly assigned are you refusing to acknowledge? Based on my understanding demonstration of town utility power is not going to be an alignment tell this game.
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I just have the power that in my opinion is impossible for scum to have.
What part of alignment being randomly assigned are you refusing to acknowledge? Based on my understanding demonstration of town utility power is not going to be an alignment tell this game.
I thought it was just the flavor names, and not the actual abilities.
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I thought it was just the flavor names, and not the actual abilities.
I would assume that each character has abilities designed to fit the flavor, especially considering that we know people can have powers that are negative utilities to their factions. And a towny role isn't even that bad for scum because they can use it for town cred.
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Looking at my flavor name and powers I would agree they look fitted to the flavor and balanced for either alignment to make use of. This squares well with the setup information that is pretty specific about this stuff. Demonstration of town utility is not an alignment tell. It looks to me like being informed of a mission that fails if you are on it might be a town tell but now that I pulled that band aid off claiming such doesn't carry any value added. Teproc and LaLight get credit for that from my perspective.
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I would put it this way: if scum had that power, it would be very unbalanced, that's what i think
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Also vote: Awaclus
As a mod and player looking at his play I always noticed that when Awaclus is scum, he suddenly makes a lot of sense, M101 and Bonkers British are the vividest proofs. Town!Awaclus goes by "scum shouldn't know what i think about different matters" and makes mostly informationless post until he catches someone on something he sees as scum slip. Reread M101, reread his posts from this game. Iguana would back me up on this, he told the same in M101 speccy.
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As a mod and player looking at his play I always noticed that when Awaclus is scum, he suddenly makes a lot of sense, M101 and Bonkers British are the vividest proofs. Town!Awaclus goes by "scum shouldn't know what i think about different matters" and makes mostly informationless post until he catches someone on something he sees as scum slip. Reread M101, reread his posts from this game. Iguana would back me up on this, he told the same in M101 speccy.
And that's bullshit, as I would have told iguana too, had I been in that speccy. I make a lot of sense as both alignments, and I'm especially actively engaged in small and RMM setups. M101 was an example of a small setup, Bonkers British of an RMM, and this is both. Kubo and Blitz Strings was also a small setup and a town game for me, for the record.
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gkrieg: Was the current mission the one revealed to you in advance? It's possible that everyone has been notified of a mission that references them, maybe positively, not necessarily an auto-fail effect.
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gkrieg: Was the current mission the one revealed to you in advance? It's possible that everyone has been notified of a mission that references them, maybe positively, not necessarily an auto-fail effect.
Yes this was the one in my QT.
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It looks to me like being informed of a mission that fails if you are on it might be a town tell
gkrieg: Was the current mission the one revealed to you in advance? It's possible that everyone has been notified of a mission that references them, maybe positively, not necessarily an auto-fail effect.
Yes this was the one in my QT.
MYTH BUSTED
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I think the real question is whether or not scum has similar auto fail missions.
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I think the real question is whether or not scum has similar auto fail missions.
And I think the real answer is yes because those are dependent on flavor and flavor is independent of alignment.
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I think the real question is whether or not scum has similar auto fail missions.
What i think on this matter is that everyone has a mission that will success with him on it and the mission that will fail. So it's nai
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As I am playing with Teproc for the first time, that's what I think about his play after reading all those games far before: if he's town, he;s quite an obvious town (Death Note and Smallville come to mind), when he's scum, it's not obvious (Musical Mafia, where he was top lynch candidate for more than half of a game). Is that right?
It reminds me of my play actually :)
Just said, I think Teproc is town in this game.
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Vote Count 1.6
LaLight (2): CheesyJelly, ashersky
Awaclus (1): LaLight
Not Voting (7): Teproc, Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, 2.71828....
Mission proposal: Awaclus, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly
Accept (4): LaLight, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, Awaclus
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (5): Teproc, Witherweaver, ashersky, 2.71828....., CheesyJelly
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 last until Friday, July 14, 7:30 am forum time.
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Vote: LaLight
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Vote: LaLight and that is L-1.
I had only townread LL due to claiming knowledge of autofail missions thinking it was a town only piece of information but I have to agree with Awaclus that it likely is not.
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Oh wow. So, you forfeit a mission to lynch me? I am sorry but this is plain dumb
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I just want to hammer myself to show you how wrong you all are. But I am playing to town wincon, so I won't
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Anyone wants me to claim? I don't have the most useful powers so if this will help to avoid the lynch, I'd claim. But this situation shouldn't have happened in the first place
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Vote: LaLight and that is L-1.
I had only townread LL due to claiming knowledge of autofail missions thinking it was a town only piece of information but I have to agree with Awaclus that it likely is not.
So if you're not townreading me, you're scumreading me? Are you sure that's how it works?
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Also I am even more sure now Awaclus is scum. Just a heads up
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Oh wow. So, you forfeit a mission to lynch me? I am sorry but this is plain dumb
Hopefully not but you need to receive a lot of votes before the day ends.
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Also I am even more sure now Awaclus is scum. Just a heads up
I doubt that.
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Also I am even more sure now Awaclus is scum. Just a heads up
I doubt that.
You doubt I am more sure? Sorry, I know better
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You cut me from the high rank, cut one of my powers. I have no idea why. CJ's case is really good but i defended myself - still no one commented on that.
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You cut me from the high rank, cut one of my powers. I have no idea why. CJ's case is really good but i defended myself - still no one commented on that.
On the other hand, your case against me was proven objectively false and you didn't comment on that.
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You cut me from the high rank, cut one of my powers. I have no idea why. CJ's case is really good but i defended myself - still no one commented on that.
On the other hand, your case against me was proven objectively false and you didn't comment on that.
I was wandering if anyone else will take my or your side first. But if no one wants, I will comment: I have a set of games where you were scum and active, 3 of them come to my mind immediately (m99 is the third), I have a set of game where you were town and inactive (plenty of them) and i have one game of active!town!you. It may be an exception. Much more probably you're scum
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It's like the same people who voted accept are voting for LaLight
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It's like the same people who voted accept are voting for LaLight
2 of those though
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You cut me from the high rank, cut one of my powers. I have no idea why. CJ's case is really good but i defended myself - still no one commented on that.
On the other hand, your case against me was proven objectively false and you didn't comment on that.
I was wandering if anyone else will take my or your side first. But if no one wants, I will comment: I have a set of games where you were scum and active, 3 of them come to my mind immediately (m99 is the third), I have a set of game where you were town and inactive (plenty of them) and i have one game of active!town!you. It may be an exception. Much more probably you're scum
No, it's much more probable that this is a small RMM.
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You cut me from the high rank, cut one of my powers. I have no idea why. CJ's case is really good but i defended myself - still no one commented on that.
On the other hand, your case against me was proven objectively false and you didn't comment on that.
I was wandering if anyone else will take my or your side first. But if no one wants, I will comment: I have a set of games where you were scum and active, 3 of them come to my mind immediately (m99 is the third), I have a set of game where you were town and inactive (plenty of them) and i have one game of active!town!you. It may be an exception. Much more probably you're scum
No, it's much more probable that this is a small RMM.
I don't think it works this way. Point me to your active!town game, I can't find one
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As a mod and player looking at his play I always noticed that when Awaclus is scum, he suddenly makes a lot of sense, M101 and Bonkers British are the vividest proofs. Town!Awaclus goes by "scum shouldn't know what i think about different matters" and makes mostly informationless post until he catches someone on something he sees as scum slip. Reread M101, reread his posts from this game. Iguana would back me up on this, he told the same in M101 speccy.
And that's bullshit, as I would have told iguana too, had I been in that speccy. I make a lot of sense as both alignments, and I'm especially actively engaged in small and RMM setups. M101 was an example of a small setup, Bonkers British of an RMM, and this is both. Kubo and Blitz Strings was also a small setup and a town game for me, for the record.
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will be rereading shortly. We have plenty of time, I hope that no one lynches/hammers the mission before I can get a good read in
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As a mod and player looking at his play I always noticed that when Awaclus is scum, he suddenly makes a lot of sense, M101 and Bonkers British are the vividest proofs. Town!Awaclus goes by "scum shouldn't know what i think about different matters" and makes mostly informationless post until he catches someone on something he sees as scum slip. Reread M101, reread his posts from this game. Iguana would back me up on this, he told the same in M101 speccy.
And that's bullshit, as I would have told iguana too, had I been in that speccy. I make a lot of sense as both alignments, and I'm especially actively engaged in small and RMM setups. M101 was an example of a small setup, Bonkers British of an RMM, and this is both. Kubo and Blitz Strings was also a small setup and a town game for me, for the record.
I mean other than Kubo
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Wait, if we lynch LaLight, the mission does not proceed?
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I know I am the worst at setups but I am not seeing this bit in there at all.
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It is interesting to me that 2/3 of the proposed mission crew is voting.
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I know I am the worst at setups but I am not seeing this bit in there at all.
Day ends. If the day ends, mission is not happening
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As a mod and player looking at his play I always noticed that when Awaclus is scum, he suddenly makes a lot of sense, M101 and Bonkers British are the vividest proofs. Town!Awaclus goes by "scum shouldn't know what i think about different matters" and makes mostly informationless post until he catches someone on something he sees as scum slip. Reread M101, reread his posts from this game. Iguana would back me up on this, he told the same in M101 speccy.
And that's bullshit, as I would have told iguana too, had I been in that speccy. I make a lot of sense as both alignments, and I'm especially actively engaged in small and RMM setups. M101 was an example of a small setup, Bonkers British of an RMM, and this is both. Kubo and Blitz Strings was also a small setup and a town game for me, for the record.
I mean other than Kubo
What's wrong with Kubo? It pretty clearly proves that the pattern you're claiming there is is not really there because it doesn't fit it.
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As a mod and player looking at his play I always noticed that when Awaclus is scum, he suddenly makes a lot of sense, M101 and Bonkers British are the vividest proofs. Town!Awaclus goes by "scum shouldn't know what i think about different matters" and makes mostly informationless post until he catches someone on something he sees as scum slip. Reread M101, reread his posts from this game. Iguana would back me up on this, he told the same in M101 speccy.
And that's bullshit, as I would have told iguana too, had I been in that speccy. I make a lot of sense as both alignments, and I'm especially actively engaged in small and RMM setups. M101 was an example of a small setup, Bonkers British of an RMM, and this is both. Kubo and Blitz Strings was also a small setup and a town game for me, for the record.
I mean other than Kubo
What's wrong with Kubo? It pretty clearly proves that the pattern you're claiming there is is not really there because it doesn't fit it.
Some patterns as are rules do have exceptions. 1 can be an exception, more is a system.
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Some patterns as are rules do have exceptions. 1 can be an exception, more is a system.
Fine, then the most recent Newbie Mafia is another example.
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Yet another example was my Mafia Championships game.
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vote: Awaclus
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Some patterns as are rules do have exceptions. 1 can be an exception, more is a system.
Fine, then the most recent Newbie Mafia is another example.
Invalid example. You weren't participating, you just tunneled TWM and me, not more. This was towntrait. Mafia Championship required 10 posts in 24 hrs, also invalid.
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I'm tempted to hammer the mission vote, to stop LaLight or anyone else hammering the lynch vote.
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I mean, SERIOUSLY tempted. The mission is too good for us to miss.
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I mean, SERIOUSLY tempted. The mission is too good for us to miss.
Unvote me first, please
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I'm also tempted to hammer.
Can someone break down the mission vs. lynch thing? Here's sort of where I see it, from best to worst:
1. Scum lynch
2. Successful mission
3. Mislynch
4. Failed Mission
Is that right? So the actual consideration should be is the lynch more or less likely to be on scum than the mission is to fail, no?
Seems like lynch odds are always better.
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I'm also tempted to hammer.
Can someone break down the mission vs. lynch thing? Here's sort of where I see it, from best to worst:
1. Scum lynch
2. Successful mission
3. Mislynch
4. Failed Mission
Is that right? So the actual consideration should be is the lynch more or less likely to be on scum than the mission is to fail, no?
Seems like lynch odds are always better.
Not given that it's like 0% probability of this mission to fail and my lynch to be correct
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I'm also tempted to hammer.
Can someone break down the mission vs. lynch thing? Here's sort of where I see it, from best to worst:
1. Scum lynch
2. Successful mission
3. Mislynch
4. Failed Mission
Is that right? So the actual consideration should be is the lynch more or less likely to be on scum than the mission is to fail, no?
Seems like lynch odds are always better.
Not given that it's like 0% probability of this mission to fail and my lynch to be correct
I wasn't discussing the current options, I was discussing the setup itself.
Also, just saying you are town over and over doesn't convince anyone. That's my go to move and it never seems to work.
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Also, the probability that this mission fails is exactly the same as any other.
Flavor is random when it comes to alignment, so Inara can be scum. So, we have three chosen players, all of whom have the same odds of being scum. Even one failing it fails the mission. We've discussed how this outs scum, but keeping us from all that energy seems worth the 1v1. If they win the first battle, that puts us in a crap position anyway.
So, a failed mission puts us at a D2 with less energy; a scum lynch puts us at a D2 with less energy, but with one of the scum players gone.
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Seems right.
vote: LaLight
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Also, the probability that this mission fails is exactly the same as any other.
Flavor is random when it comes to alignment, so Inara can be scum. So, we have three chosen players, all of whom have the same odds of being scum. Even one failing it fails the mission. We've discussed how this outs scum, but keeping us from all that energy seems worth the 1v1. If they win the first battle, that puts us in a crap position anyway.
So, a failed mission puts us at a D2 with less energy; a scum lynch puts us at a D2 with less energy, but with one of the scum players gone.
If Inara's on a mission, it needs one less person to be successful.
Also, fake hammer? what am I, playing my second game?
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Wait, was that the lynch hammer? Can someone vote count pls? I'm on mobile.
Whether or not Inara is scum, it would need BOTH scum on the mission to fail it, and they're unlikely to reveal themselves that way. If that was a lynch, ash, it was anti-town.
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Wait, was that the lynch hammer? Can someone vote count pls? I'm on mobile.
Whether or not Inara is scum, it would need BOTH scum on the mission to fail it, and they're unlikely to reveal themselves that way. If that was a lynch, ash, it was anti-town.
That wasn't, calm down
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From the setup:
It is possible for the town to win without ever lynching someone.
I'm also tempted to hammer.
Can someone break down the mission vs. lynch thing? Here's sort of where I see it, from best to worst:
1. Scum lynch
2. Successful mission
3. Mislynch
4. Failed Mission
Is that right? So the actual consideration should be is the lynch more or less likely to be on scum than the mission is to fail, no?
Seems like lynch odds are always better.
I would change the order slightly.
1) mission success
2) correct lynch
3) mislynch
4) mission failure
Lynching scum assists us in securing the win, but it isn't necessarily critical to winning. I stick by my the opinion I stated at the beginning: Voting should primarily be used to decide who we want to be the captain, not to lynch scum, especially early on.
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I like the proposed crew.
I think vote: ashersky
and accept
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Some patterns as are rules do have exceptions. 1 can be an exception, more is a system.
Fine, then the most recent Newbie Mafia is another example.
Invalid example. You weren't participating, you just tunneled TWM and me, not more. This was towntrait. Mafia Championship required 10 posts in 24 hrs, also invalid.
What have I done in this game aside from tunneling you?
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That ends the day though, right?
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4 votes on me. I'm screwed and useless.
Awaclus, you haven't even started tunneling me. You're defending, you're speculating the setup to gain towncred and you are not tunneling anyone. That's not town!you
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Also I watched 10 episodes already!
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4 votes on me. I'm screwed and useless.
Awaclus, you haven't even started tunneling me. You're defending, you're speculating the setup to gain towncred and you are not tunneling anyone. That's not town!you
I always participate in setup talk if there's anything that can be gained from it. Literally always. And to say that I'm not tunneling you is a blatant misrepresentation you're doing on purpose.
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In case i die 9-5
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4 votes on me. I'm screwed and useless.
Awaclus, you haven't even started tunneling me. You're defending, you're speculating the setup to gain towncred and you are not tunneling anyone. That's not town!you
I always participate in setup talk if there's anything that can be gained from it. Literally always. And to say that I'm not tunneling you is a blatant misrepresentation you're doing on purpose.
I actually agree with LaLight that you aren't tunneling in your normal fashion.
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4 votes on me. I'm screwed and useless.
Awaclus, you haven't even started tunneling me. You're defending, you're speculating the setup to gain towncred and you are not tunneling anyone. That's not town!you
I always participate in setup talk if there's anything that can be gained from it. Literally always. And to say that I'm not tunneling you is a blatant misrepresentation you're doing on purpose.
You're not tunneling me! You don't attack, you defend. You don't say i've done something scummy to try to provoke me, you don't say i'm scum you don't do all the things you usually do when you tunnel me. I don't feel the tunneling, you know
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good news: faust's asleep so we will have a long twilight. Bad news: I am going to sleep and iirc most of the people here are europeans too
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Should I full claim?
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You're not tunneling me! You don't attack, you defend. You don't say i've done something scummy to try to provoke me, you don't say i'm scum you don't do all the things you usually do when you tunnel me. I don't feel the tunneling, you know
Defense is the most important thing to do as town, and I always do it as town.
Furthermore, the status quo with the focus being on the mission and you having a bunch of votes has been perfect as far as I'm concerned, so there was no reason for me to try and change that. The only thing I wanted to change was that there were votes on me.
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I think I will.
I'm Wash (second unfavorite character, btw). If I die, the ship uses 5 extra energy per day. I have a QT with Zoe, but was not told Zoe's alignment. Zoe is Awaclus.
Given Awaclus's placement on the mission, and his very recent actions, I think he's the 1st Mate. Makes sense flavor-wise, too.
I think it's very possible he's scum. Seems too much of a flavorful coincidence to not be masons, so unless it's a mod-fake-out, one town/one scum makes sense here.
We won't be talking tonight (location).
I still think lynching is better than missions as a whole. If the mission passes tonight, it's worth skipping them to lynch.
Also, I breadcrumbed my role via my mission. You'll see if/when it comes up.
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Also I watched 10 episodes already!
Season 2 is better.
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I think I will.
I'm Wash (second unfavorite character, btw). If I die, the ship uses 5 extra energy per day. I have a QT with Zoe, but was not told Zoe's alignment. Zoe is Awaclus.
Given Awaclus's placement on the mission, and his very recent actions, I think he's the 1st Mate. Makes sense flavor-wise, too.
I think it's very possible he's scum. Seems too much of a flavorful coincidence to not be masons, so unless it's a mod-fake-out, one town/one scum makes sense here.
We won't be talking tonight (location).
I still think lynching is better than missions as a whole. If the mission passes tonight, it's worth skipping them to lynch.
Also, I breadcrumbed my role via my mission. You'll see if/when it comes up.
Your partnership is based on flavour. ALL TOGETHER NOW: Flavour is not indicative of alignment.
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Well this is good information though, seeing as we will be able to see things from how the mission goes tonight.
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I have not followed what happened.
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Also I watched 10 episodes already!
Season 2 is better.
Cruel.
ash's claim is completely pointless and breadcrumbing a flavor is also useless because there is no fakeclaiming flavor here, becaus, you know, what CJ said. A few times.
gkrieg saying this is "good information weirds me out because the only useful information anyone has gotten out of this is scum now knowing why they might want to kill ash . Why claim that ash ? Why ?
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And the lynch v mission thing is pointless to discuss now. This particular mission is better than a lynh on this particular day, that much is obvious to me.
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Also, the probability that this mission fails is exactly the same as any other.
This is wrong, and you should know that.
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Ashersky: What made you decide to full claim?
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Day 1 Final Vote Count
LaLight (4): CheesyJelly, ashersky, Awaclus, pingpongsam
Awaclus (2): LaLight, gkrieg13
ashersky (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (2): Teproc, Witherweaver
Mission proposal: Awaclus, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly
Accept (5): LaLight, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, Awaclus, 2.71828.....
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (4): Teproc, Witherweaver, ashersky, CheesyJelly
With 9 alive, it took 5 to approve a mission.
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Over lunch, the whole crew was invested in a heated argument over how they should secure the money they needed to keep Serenity moving. Inara suggested meeting a former client of hers, who was always on the lookout for some unofficial side ventures.
There was little opposition once they heard this proposal. "Alright, let's do this", said Mal.
Awaclus, gkrieg13 and CheesyJelly embark on a mission!
Night 1 starts now and lasts until Monday, noon forum time. Night actions are due within 24 hours. Submissions for the mission are due within 24 hours.
THREAD LOCKED!
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Night action deadline has been extended until 1 pm forum time. Day 2 will start as soon as possible after that.
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Inara's proposal was not without risks: the merchant they decided to deal with may have been rich enough to not care about the price on the heads of River and Simon, or not even know about them, but the chance of discovery was always higher when dealing with the upper class. Still, Mal's people managed to get the contract done in time, and were paid accordingly.
However, as Serenity was back in space and the crew took their breakfast, someone was missing. The youngest and most unstable of the crew memebers was nowhere to be found. Simon frantically pushed open the door to her chamber and found her laying there, blood streaming from a wound from the head. A quick decision needed to be made. The medical supplies on Serenity would not be sufficient to treat this wound, and so Simon decided to reactivate the very freezer that he used to smuggle River from the central planets in the first place.
River was stable, but treatment unthinkable. The would need to get her into an Alliance hospital, with enough time to perform surgery, but Mal decided it was too dangerous.
2.71828..... has been killed! They were River Tam, the Child Prodigy, and had the following power:
Makeshift Generator
Each night, while not on a Mission, you may activate this. If you do, add 10 points energy to the ship.
The mission was a success!
Current energy level: 65
The ship uses 10 energy per night.
Day 2 begins!
Vote Count 2.0
Not Voting (8): Teproc, Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, LaLight, ashersky
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 ends July 18 at 1 pm forum time.
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So
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I have a proof that either all three people on mission are town or ash is town. Equally probable
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As I believe ash, i guess from now on I will treat him as town
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Oh and yeah, now I can claim as I am useless. I am (was) Captain Malcolm Reynolds. One of my powers was that if I am the captain I can myself choose a first mate. But last day I didn't, now I can't
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So, there can't be two scum on a mission cause e was on the ship so one was on the ship
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Oh and yeah, now I can claim as I am useless. I am (was) Captain Malcolm Reynolds. One of my powers was that if I am the captain I can myself choose a first mate. But last day I didn't, now I can't
Why did you not choose a first mate D1?
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So, there can't be two scum on a mission cause e was on the ship so one was on the ship
What makes you think scum would refuse to fail the mission?
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I won't claim the power that possibly cleared ash as it will be on my flip
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I have a proof that either all three people on mission are town or ash is town. Equally probable
Wait, so if I know I'm town, I know that the other two on the mission with me are town?
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Oh and yeah, now I can claim as I am useless. I am (was) Captain Malcolm Reynolds. One of my powers was that if I am the captain I can myself choose a first mate. But last day I didn't, now I can't
Why did you not choose a first mate D1?
I should've done it before choosing the mission. I forgot about that and chose the mission first
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I have a proof that either all three people on mission are town or ash is town. Equally probable
Wait, so if I know I'm town, I know that the other two on the mission with me are town?
No. If ash is town one of you three can be scum
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Can someone check the energy? And how it looks compared to how it should look?
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So, there can't be two scum on a mission cause e was on the ship so one was on the ship
What makes you think scum would refuse to fail the mission?
Mission is success. If both scum were on a mission they could've not killed e as they all are in different location
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Can someone check the energy? And how it looks compared to how it should look?
25 initial minus 10 night minus 10 mission + 35 mission. Equals 40. So we have extra 25
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Can someone check the energy? And how it looks compared to how it should look?
25 initial minus 10 night minus 10 mission + 35 mission. Equals 40. So we have extra 25
So did the mission special pass?
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Sorry, on mobile and having a hard time loading pages to check all this out for myself.
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Can someone check the energy? And how it looks compared to how it should look?
25 initial minus 10 night minus 10 mission + 35 mission. Equals 40. So we have extra 25
So did the mission special pass?
You were there. Mission is success. Of course it passed
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Also to the new captain, you should put me on another mission.
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Also to the new captain, we ignore failure of the next mission
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Also, the fact that I have chosen that mission I have chosen should undoubtedly say I am town. I bet that Inara is town, will claim and we will be in a very good position
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Also to the new captain, we ignore failure of the next mission
Only if no failures were submitted, which we don't know for sure.
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Also, the fact that I have chosen that mission I have chosen should undoubtedly say I am town. I bet that Inara is town, will claim and we will be in a very good position
I believe you are town now. But what do you mean by the other part? I already claimed to be Inara
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A new crew has been proposed for this mission:
Deal with a wealthy merchant
"Why, Banning Miller! What a vision you are in your fine dress. It must have taken a dozen slaves a dozen days to get you into that getup. 'Course, your daddy tells me it takes the space of a schoolboy's wink to get you out of it again."
Cost: 10 energy
Conditions: 3/3 // 3/3
Success: 35 energy
Special success (Inara): Next mission failure effects are ignored.
Failure: highest-ranking crew member arrested (roleblocked and unable to perform missions the following day)
If Inara Serra is part of this mission, it will take 1 success submission less to complete. It can only be a special success if there are no failures submitted.
The proposed crew is:
Awaclus, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly
Gkrieg, it is ignored in any case
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Also, the fact that I have chosen that mission I have chosen should undoubtedly say I am town. I bet that Inara is town, will claim and we will be in a very good position
I believe you are town now. But what do you mean by the other part? I already claimed to be Inara
Sorry. When I have chosen the mission I believed Inara was town, would claim and we will have a success. Past time
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We would have. Freaking english
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If gkrieg will be on a mission, I should not be
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Ah, also a little off-top: i have watched the whole series and my heart is broken as it is too good to be cancelled
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e's flip should explain 10 of the extra 25, that leaves you 15. Not sure why we particularly want to explain these anyway ?
I do not think we should do a mission today, unless it involves killing someone. We are now set on energy for days, what we need to do is find scum.
I'm willing to PoE LL and gkrieg out, at least for today. I have no idea why we should think all on-mission people to be town since I believe scum would definitely have submitted a succes there.
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Ah, also a little off-top: i have watched the whole series and my heart is broken as it is too good to be cancelled
There's a movie, if that helps. It's pretty good.
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Ah, also a little off-top: i have watched the whole series and my heart is broken as it is too good to be cancelled
There's a movie, if that helps. It's pretty good.
I will watch it in 27 minutes :)
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I am also thinking we should lynch, but it depends on mission
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ash making zero sense probably means he's town.
Let's vote: pps
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vote: Awaclus by the way
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vote: Awaclus by the way
WHy is he scum again ? FOr making sense right ? If so, I do not find that argument convincing.
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vote: Awaclus by the way
WHy is he scum again ? FOr making sense right ? If so, I do not find that argument convincing.
It's not just making sense. Also lack of tunneling, telling that he tunnels though he's not. Mostly the argument is not that he is making sense but that his playstyle is scum!Awaclus style AND not town!Awaclus style
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vote: Awaclus by the way
WHy is he scum again ? FOr making sense right ? If so, I do not find that argument convincing.
Why pps? I scumread him too but i'm intersted in your opinion
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WW, I can't find when your vla ends :(
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Also I think River is somewhere in the bottom of rankings along with Book and Kaylee
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vote: Awaclus by the way
WHy is he scum again ? FOr making sense right ? If so, I do not find that argument convincing.
It's not just making sense. Also lack of tunneling, telling that he tunnels though he's not. Mostly the argument is not that he is making sense but that his playstyle is scum!Awaclus style AND not town!Awaclus style
I don't think Awaclus is more or less likely to tunnel people if he's town. He wants to find shortcuts to finding scum, and once he's found one he basically stops playing and repeats over and over that X is scum until he's lynched or killed. He just hasn't found one of those things yet - which is understandable since we had a short day 1 - and is therefore stil in his "annoying but useful" phase of the game.
PPs has been unremarkable, which is scum!pps.
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WW, I can't find when your vla ends :(
I'm back today.
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Also I think River is somewhere in the bottom of rankings along with Book and Kaylee
Why do you think this?
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Also I think River is somewhere in the bottom of rankings along with Book and Kaylee
Why do you think this?
i have watched the series and rankings are based on flavor
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PPs has been unremarkable, which is scum!pps.
I kicked up the biggest dust cloud by actually having the audacity to cast votes yesterday.
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vote: Awaclus by the way
WHy is he scum again ? FOr making sense right ? If so, I do not find that argument convincing.
It's not just making sense. Also lack of tunneling, telling that he tunnels though he's not. Mostly the argument is not that he is making sense but that his playstyle is scum!Awaclus style AND not town!Awaclus style
I don't think Awaclus is more or less likely to tunnel people if he's town. He wants to find shortcuts to finding scum, and once he's found one he basically stops playing and repeats over and over that X is scum until he's lynched or killed. He just hasn't found one of those things yet - which is understandable since we had a short day 1 - and is therefore stil in his "annoying but useful" phase of the game.
PPs has been unremarkable, which is scum!pps.
Pps put me on L-1 by the way
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PPs has been unremarkable, which is scum!pps.
I kicked up the biggest dust cloud by actually having the audacity to cast votes yesterday.
You were the first one to vote ? Hm. I need to take another look at D1. unvote
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I don't think I was first but definitely beyond RVS. Also, yeah, lalight at L-1. I'm not being unremarkable, that is for certain.
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I don't think I was first but definitely beyond RVS. Also, yeah, lalight at L-1. I'm not being unremarkable, that is for certain.
Something you like to do as town and would be aware enough of to do as scum.
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I don't think I was first but definitely beyond RVS. Also, yeah, lalight at L-1. I'm not being unremarkable, that is for certain.
Something you like to do as town and would be aware enough of to do as scum.
I agree we should just lynch me because wine tastes good regardless. Iocaine powder is tasteless after all.
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I don't think I was first but definitely beyond RVS. Also, yeah, lalight at L-1. I'm not being unremarkable, that is for certain.
Something you like to do as town and would be aware enough of to do as scum.
I agree we should just lynch me because wine tastes good regardless. Iocaine powder is tasteless after all.
Just because it is WIFOM does not mean it is unreadable.
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I would like LaLight to prove that he is town. He promised a D2 town proof.
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LL, what were the other possible missions on D1 ?
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If gkrieg will be on a mission, I should not be
I don't follow this logic. Is this a Captain Mal thing or a tactics thing?
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I would like LaLight to prove that he is town. He promised a D2 town proof.
I think LaLight is town. I doubt there is actually a proof.
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I would like LaLight to prove that he is town. He promised a D2 town proof.
I think LaLight is town. I doubt there is actually a proof.
I am leaning towards agreeing, but he did claim he could prove it and would like to hear his case.
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Sorry, forgot to include this in the opening post:
gkrieg13 is lynchproof today. Any vote placed against them will not be counted as a vote.
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To be completely sincere, here's what happened with my train of thought:
I thought that the ability to choose a First Mate is too much of an advantage for a scumteam because they can play it however they want. After that I realised that, well, it's really not, because of the massclaim. Then I thought that well, actually it is a disbalance because 25 of initial energy is really not too much. And I still stand that choosing First Mate when you're a Captain is a Town power only.
Also, when I saw that I won't be a captain any more, I tried to draw a nightkill
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Also the movie is frustratingly bad, sorry if this will hurt anyone. But I am no more sad beuse of the ending of the series so maybe it's for the better
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To be completely sincere, here's what happened with my train of thought:
I thought that the ability to choose a First Mate is too much of an advantage for a scumteam because they can play it however they want. After that I realised that, well, it's really not, because of the massclaim. Then I thought that well, actually it is a disbalance because 25 of initial energy is really not too much. And I still stand that choosing First Mate when you're a Captain is a Town power only.
Also, when I saw that I won't be a captain any more, I tried to draw a nightkill
Tried to draw a nightkill how?
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LL, what were the other possible missions on D1 ?
hmm I don't know if it is a good idea to tell... Not sure if bad though.
Well, one of them was the one in the opening post, won't tell exactly which. I saved it for the next captain to decide, he will acquire it.
Third one that was discarded was to gain a little of the contraband with 4 people to get it to the success. I thought it wasn't worth it at the time, primary goal was to mine some energy
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To be completely sincere, here's what happened with my train of thought:
I thought that the ability to choose a First Mate is too much of an advantage for a scumteam because they can play it however they want. After that I realised that, well, it's really not, because of the massclaim. Then I thought that well, actually it is a disbalance because 25 of initial energy is really not too much. And I still stand that choosing First Mate when you're a Captain is a Town power only.
Also, when I saw that I won't be a captain any more, I tried to draw a nightkill
Tried to draw a nightkill how?
WIFOMising those scumzez
I am not sure I want to talk about it
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well, actually why not. Sorry, it's late and I'm a little drunk.
I was thinking that if I could convince them I can be an IC AND I would say about how useless repeatedly they would suspect I am not as useless as I say and kill me. Would be nice if that worked.
Anyway, the thing we never discussed: e? Who would kill e and why? I have even forgotten he was in the game and then he hammered a mission. Weird kill, isn't it
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damn, gkrieg is lynchproof, the day is wasted /sarcasm
It raises suspicion in me to be frank.
Well, I'm going to sleep on it. Tonight I dreamt of being on Serenity, no lies. Was too bad to wake up to go to work in the office :D
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LL, can you clarify how choosing a first mate worked?
Like, choose N1 for D2? Or choose during the day?
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Mod, will mission successes and special successes be announced separately by you when day starts?
Worded differently, will it be indicated whether a success was special or not?
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LL, can you clarify how choosing a first mate worked?
Like, choose N1 for D2? Or choose during the day?
I choose him in captain phase for first mate phase
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A new crew has been proposed for this mission:
Deal with a wealthy merchant
"Why, Banning Miller! What a vision you are in your fine dress. It must have taken a dozen slaves a dozen days to get you into that getup. 'Course, your daddy tells me it takes the space of a schoolboy's wink to get you out of it again."
Cost: 10 energy
Conditions: 3/3 // 3/3
Success: 35 energy
Special success (Inara): Next mission failure effects are ignored.
Failure: highest-ranking crew member arrested (roleblocked and unable to perform missions the following day)
If Inara Serra is part of this mission, it will take 1 success submission less to complete. It can only be a special success if there are no failures submitted.
The proposed crew is:
Awaclus, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly
Gkrieg, it is ignored in any case
Not in any case, only if 3/3. 2/3 passes too and we get the energy.
I think it is dangerous to assume special success.
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LL, can you clarify how choosing a first mate worked?
Like, choose N1 for D2? Or choose during the day?
I choose him in captain phase for first mate phase
But you did not on D1, so we can assume the flavor 1st mate chose the team. Right?
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In case i die 9-5
What?
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I think I will.
I'm Wash (second unfavorite character, btw). If I die, the ship uses 5 extra energy per day. I have a QT with Zoe, but was not told Zoe's alignment. Zoe is Awaclus.
Given Awaclus's placement on the mission, and his very recent actions, I think he's the 1st Mate. Makes sense flavor-wise, too.
I think it's very possible he's scum. Seems too much of a flavorful coincidence to not be masons, so unless it's a mod-fake-out, one town/one scum makes sense here.
We won't be talking tonight (location).
I still think lynching is better than missions as a whole. If the mission passes tonight, it's worth skipping them to lynch.
Also, I breadcrumbed my role via my mission. You'll see if/when it comes up.
Your partnership is based on flavour. ALL TOGETHER NOW: Flavour is not indicative of alignment.
I think you are just reinforcing my point? Awa being Zoe does not clear him because flavor is not indicative of alignment. Masons was an easy flavor choice the mod chose not to make. I think that increases the likelihood that it's a town/scum grouping.
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Oh and yeah, now I can claim as I am useless. I am (was) Captain Malcolm Reynolds. One of my powers was that if I am the captain I can myself choose a first mate. But last day I didn't, now I can't
I can confirm that LaLight was the captain yesterday.
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Also I watched 10 episodes already!
Season 2 is better.
Cruel.
ash's claim is completely pointless and breadcrumbing a flavor is also useless because there is no fakeclaiming flavor here, becaus, you know, what CJ said. A few times.
gkrieg saying this is "good information weirds me out because the only useful information anyone has gotten out of this is scum now knowing why they might want to kill ash . Why claim that ash ? Why ?
So, you didn't read, or didn't understand. I did not breadcrumb my flavor specifically, but the mission related to my flavor character, which would help mission choosers.
What did CJ say that has anything to do with this?
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LL, can you clarify how choosing a first mate worked?
Like, choose N1 for D2? Or choose during the day?
I choose him in captain phase for first mate phase
But you did not on D1, so we can assume the flavor 1st mate chose the team. Right?
Yes
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In case i die 9-5
What?
Nevermind. It's written "in case i die"
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Also, I did not use my ability last night (the one that I will flip, that is).
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So, opinions on if scum would pass the mission given the Inara trap?
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So, opinions on if scum would pass the mission given the Inara trap?
If "success" means ONLY a success, we know that at least one of us three was scum.
If "success" means success of any kind, we're none the wiser.
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damn, gkrieg is lynchproof, the day is wasted /sarcasm
It raises suspicion in me to be frank.
gkrieg is the towniest person around! Are you still serious about this?
scum!gkrieg would never have flavour claimed. Much better for scum to not make it easier for town to succeed the mission, let alone get the special success.
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Also I watched 10 episodes already!
Season 2 is better.
Cruel.
ash's claim is completely pointless and breadcrumbing a flavor is also useless because there is no fakeclaiming flavor here, becaus, you know, what CJ said. A few times.
gkrieg saying this is "good information weirds me out because the only useful information anyone has gotten out of this is scum now knowing why they might want to kill ash . Why claim that ash ? Why ?
So, you didn't read, or didn't understand. I did not breadcrumb my flavor specifically, but the mission related to my flavor character, which would help mission choosers.
What did CJ say that has anything to do with this?
Flavour is not indicative of alignment.
The problem with your lovers argument is this:
1) Wash and Zoey are chosen to be lovers.
2) Later, two RANDOM characters are chosen to be scum.
The odds of Wash being scum are entirely independent of the odds of Zoey being scum, and vice versa.
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To be completely sincere, here's what happened with my train of thought:
I thought that the ability to choose a First Mate is too much of an advantage for a scumteam because they can play it however they want. After that I realised that, well, it's really not, because of the massclaim. Then I thought that well, actually it is a disbalance because 25 of initial energy is really not too much. And I still stand that choosing First Mate when you're a Captain is a Town power only.
Also, when I saw that I won't be a captain any more, I tried to draw a nightkill
So you lied when you claimed you could prove yourself as town? I don't like this. I think it's anti-town, if not scummy. Since the start, I've felt like you're playing your own game with your own tactics in a way that feels like scum with a gameplan.
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Also I watched 10 episodes already!
Season 2 is better.
Cruel.
ash's claim is completely pointless and breadcrumbing a flavor is also useless because there is no fakeclaiming flavor here, becaus, you know, what CJ said. A few times.
gkrieg saying this is "good information weirds me out because the only useful information anyone has gotten out of this is scum now knowing why they might want to kill ash . Why claim that ash ? Why ?
So, you didn't read, or didn't understand. I did not breadcrumb my flavor specifically, but the mission related to my flavor character, which would help mission choosers.
What did CJ say that has anything to do with this?
Flavour is not indicative of alignment.
The problem with your lovers argument is this:
1) Wash and Zoey are chosen to be lovers.
2) Later, two RANDOM characters are chosen to be scum.
The odds of Wash being scum are entirely independent of the odds of Zoey being scum, and vice versa.
How do you have so much extra knowledge?
1. Noone claimed lovers. That you would guess/infer/imply that is scummy.
2. How do you know the order of operations for alignment/role/flavor assignments?
Wash/Zoe were clearly designed to share a neighborhood based on the flavor. In the show, they are a couple. So your argument that they were "chosen" to be lovers is completely false.
And again, what makes you think players were given alignments after they were assigned roles or flavor?
I find it very hard to believe Faust has a list of players, a list of flavors, and a list of roles, randomly assigned each in the order you assume, then randomly chose two scum.
In general, game design would have given Faust a list of fully formed roles that included flavor and alignment. The wash/Zoe neighborhood would have been included in those plans. He then would have assigned the roles randomly.
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Lovers wasn't what I meant. I just meant whatever you call having your own private chat. In the fiction, they are lovers.
The flavor names in the game are the names of the characters that form the permanent crew of Serenity in the TV series Firefly. Knowledge of the series will improve your game experience. Two of these have been randomly selected as mafia. Every player has exactly three special abilities. Some may be negative utility for their own faction.
Regardless of the order of assignment, this is clear that flavour and faction are 100% unrelated. I think we're all convinced now that special abilities are based on flavour. So a Wash/Zoey pairing is based on flavour and independent of alignment, so it's a waste of time to try to convince us that there's an above-chance likelihood of one being town and one being scum.
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A real human being who loves the show made it all up. Fans of the show are/we're gaga googoo about Wash/Zoe, and especially what happened in Serenity. There was a conscious decision not to make us Masons. You can't ignore that. Can we both still be Town? Of course. Or we are the scum team and share a qt for a different reason. Whatever the case may be, it is, and ignoring factors does not change that.
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Mod, will mission successes and special successes be announced separately by you when day starts?
Worded differently, will it be indicated whether a success was special or not?
No.
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To be completely sincere, here's what happened with my train of thought:
I thought that the ability to choose a First Mate is too much of an advantage for a scumteam because they can play it however they want. After that I realised that, well, it's really not, because of the massclaim. Then I thought that well, actually it is a disbalance because 25 of initial energy is really not too much. And I still stand that choosing First Mate when you're a Captain is a Town power only.
Also, when I saw that I won't be a captain any more, I tried to draw a nightkill
So you lied when you claimed you could prove yourself as town? I don't like this. I think it's anti-town, if not scummy. Since the start, I've felt like you're playing your own game with your own tactics in a way that feels like scum with a gameplan.
Look, I am trying to make myself as useful as possible. I didn't lie, i think it's very OP for scum to have a power to choose a first mate. I can't now choose one, because I am not a captain any more. If I were a captain now, I would speak with you all about who I need to choose and this power could be really useful, but no, better have 4 votes. I wonder who's the captain now.
And I think that there is a confirmation bias. I am as anyone of us playing my own game because I know my role and everyone knows only theirs role for the time being so it's our own tactics, yes. But I am not scum for god's sake. Have you read my previous games?
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ash, are you being deliberately obtuse ? faust made the setup so that anyone could be scum. Therefore he didn't make Wash and Zoe Lovers. To me, it's clear that they are no more or less likely than any one else to be scum... and it seems very strange to me that you're pushing this at all, do you think so little of faust as a mod that you think we can make a lynch pool of 2 just from characters not having an expected role ?
CJ, we're not lynching LL today. Remember ash in Smallville ? Remember how he flipped ? Some players are self-centered (and I want to be clear that I do not in any way mean this as a diss, it can certainly be the most effective/useful way to play in a game where everyone else's alignment is in question), and unless there's evidence that this is a scum!LL trait, I'd refer you to the much stronger evidence for LL being town, ie his choosing a mission that gives us infinite energy as captain.
And now I'm off to reread D1, clearly I wasn't paying enough attention during the votign phase.
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No, I'm being deliberately the opposite of obtuse. I think there's a miscommunication or misunderstanding about how the game was designed that is throwing off people.
Faust gave us the standard flavor =/= alignment disclaimer. It's what mods do to ensure they can have bad guys in a game when all the characters are good guys. I mean, no one remembers any villains from Firefly except the Reavers (I think they are called that?) which might work as a faction, but not as flavor names.
So, he uses the nine crew members and makes two of them bad. That's it.
Now, could he have designed a 9-player game, down to the roles and interactions of each player, and THEN applied a random.org roll to determine alignment? Yes, that's technically possible.
But it is infinitely more possible that he designed a 9-player game, down to the roles and interaction AND ALIGNMENTS of each player role, then applied a random.org roll to determine which player gets each role.
So then, if that's the case, which it is much more likely to be, that means faust made a conscious decision one way or the other about the alignments of Wash and Zoe. And he made that conscious decision with the knowledge that he was putting those two players in a neighbor together.
Those conscious decisions mean something. Faust is not just some collection of bits, bytes, and pixels that unfeelingly created this constructed universe in which we play mafia. He's a human being, a huge fan of this unfortunately terrible show, and created this setup as such.
He may have decided to make zero, one, or two of Wash and Zoe scum. He may have decided that he wanted a neighborhood of two town but to maintain the possibility of suspicion. Maybe Zoe was his least favorite character and he made her scum for that reason. No one knows but faust. It is up to the players to try to figure it out. That's how closed setups work.
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I believe it's the first option, ie faust designed the roles, then rolled scum and gave scum powers to balance things given which characters rolled scum... but I also don't think it matters here. What you're doing here is trying to guess how faust feels about a fictional couple to find scum. That's... I mean just read that sentence and tell me it makes sense to you.
This is something we can't figure out. Aren't you the one always saying that playing WIFOM with the mod is always a losing game ? Why don't you use the actual available information taht's there rather than speculate on something unknowable anyway ?
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Yeah, i'm on ash's side of this (except that show is terrible :P). If the alignment would be determined after roles, counting neighbourhood, all the roles would've had to be equally useful for town and scum. After e's flip we know it's wrong.
I think it was Alignment first, then roles. So faust could definitely make a neighbourhood tween town and scum
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I have a pretty good guess on who's captain is but I don't see why he is dragging it..
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Rereading day 1, I'm not convinced PPS is town but I think WW comes out looking scummiest. This reaction to PPS's vote in particular
Well wait, if we think someone is scummy, we really should vote for them.
Agreed, Vote: Gkrieg
Boo
strikes me as all kinds of wrong for town!WW, who's the type to like that kind of move. JUst in general, WW has been emulating his town posting style... but without having anything to actually say, and I think RMM, more than normal games, can be paralyzing for scum, especially early on, as you're always worried about scumslipping in some way because of some obscure point you missed in the setup.
vote: WW
Surprising. I think town!WW likes that kind of stuff generally.
PPE: In no way am I arguing that Zoe and Wash are both town... nor am I saying that there weren't variable elements to the setup depending on who rolled scum... all I'm saying is that speculating on the mod's feelings/thoughts is a waste of time.
PPE2: I do too but why are we talking about it ? What's the point ? And I still don't understand why you felt the need to propose so early on day 1, it's
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I think ash asked about this at one point: I think scum on this mission would have 100% submitted success if alone on it, because the special success only matters if we do a mission today, which I think we most likely shouldn't.
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I would gladly listen to ww's thoughts
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Also, i was following Smallville, though not very closely, but CJ looks the same townie he was there
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Also, i was following Smallville, though not very closely, but CJ looks the same townie he was there
I agree.
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<b>Vote: ashersky</b>
Suggesting that we can use flavour and powers to guess at scum actively ignores Faust's "random" description in the set-up, and turns this into a game of sudoku. We have actual information we can discuss.
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Vote: askersky
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Vote Count 2.1
Awaclus (1): LaLight
Witherweaver (1): Teproc
ashersky (1): CheesyJelly
Not Voting (5): Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, ashersky
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 ends July 18 at 1 pm forum time.
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My stance is:
Won't lynch: gkrieg, Teproc, ash
Don't want to lynch: CJ
Might lynch: pps, WW
Want to lynch: Awaclus
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I have a pretty good guess on who's captain is but I don't see why he is dragging it..
I'm pretty sure I know, too. I don't think it matters. We should fail any mission proposed (edge cases exist, of course).
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<b>Vote: ashersky</b>
Suggesting that we can use flavour and powers to guess at scum actively ignores Faust's "random" description in the set-up, and turns this into a game of sudoku. We have actual information we can discuss.
Obligatory "scumslip!"
So flavor and powers aren't actual information we can discuss? That seems odd. There's even a new mechanic in this game that specifically puts a power in the flip. So I'd definitely define "powers" as "actual information" that "we can discuss."
Let me give you some hypothetical examples of how "flavours and powers" can help you catch scum:
--a hypothetical power that allows one player to investigate another and learn their alignment. I don't know what you'd call it, maybe Private Eye or Investigator? Dunno, maybe someone will come up with a good name.
--a hypothetical flavor that is guaranteed to be town, like Kubo in Kubo Mafia.
--a hypothetical setup that flips powers as part of public information that is specifically chosen by the player to inform the rest of the town, where the chosen power lets town know what the dead player did at some point that could point out scum. Like a Hider saying "I'm going to target X tonight" and then the Hider power flips and we know the targeted player is probably scum.
I could go on, but you already know all of this, but are trying to obsfucate it. I don't know if you've done a lot of prior research on games here, but you are emulating one of the classic masters of f.ds, and so I salute you.
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I think ash asked about this at one point: I think scum on this mission would have 100% submitted success if alone on it, because the special success only matters if we do a mission today, which I think we most likely shouldn't.
I agree with this. There's zero benefit to failing it when you know it'll pass anyway, because the special is subpar.
So no one is cleared on the mission, whatsoever. And we can strongly assume that the scum were both on-ship or split on/off ship due to the NK target.
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To be completely sincere, here's what happened with my train of thought:
I thought that the ability to choose a First Mate is too much of an advantage for a scumteam because they can play it however they want. After that I realised that, well, it's really not, because of the massclaim. Then I thought that well, actually it is a disbalance because 25 of initial energy is really not too much. And I still stand that choosing First Mate when you're a Captain is a Town power only.
Also, when I saw that I won't be a captain any more, I tried to draw a nightkill
So you lied when you claimed you could prove yourself as town? I don't like this. I think it's anti-town, if not scummy. Since the start, I've felt like you're playing your own game with your own tactics in a way that feels like scum with a gameplan.
Look, I am trying to make myself as useful as possible. I didn't lie, i think it's very OP for scum to have a power to choose a first mate. I can't now choose one, because I am not a captain any more. If I were a captain now, I would speak with you all about who I need to choose and this power could be really useful, but no, better have 4 votes. I wonder who's the captain now.
And I think that there is a confirmation bias. I am as anyone of us playing my own game because I know my role and everyone knows only theirs role for the time being so it's our own tactics, yes. But I am not scum for god's sake. Have you read my previous games?
Why didn't you want to do the 1st mate discussion on D1?
(I think this reads like town!LaLight to me.)
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I believe it's the first option, ie faust designed the roles, then rolled scum and gave scum powers to balance things given which characters rolled scum... but I also don't think it matters here. What you're doing here is trying to guess how faust feels about a fictional couple to find scum. That's... I mean just read that sentence and tell me it makes sense to you.
This is something we can't figure out. Aren't you the one always saying that playing WIFOM with the mod is always a losing game ? Why don't you use the actual available information taht's there rather than speculate on something unknowable anyway ?
Yes, I do think trying to WIFOM the mod is a losing proposition. I get the feeling that faust specifically designed this setup to challenge us to do that, though. A game where we don't need to lynch to kill? Mission cards like Resistance? My own role powers are clearly made in this spirit, not in the spirit of a mafia game.
I think this game is a love letter to Firefly/Serenity. I think ignoring that is dangerous, and not in the spirit of Faust's game.
As for actual information, that's what I'm using -- info available to me. Other than that, we have lynchproof-very likely town-Inarakrieg, townish Captain MaLight, and a lot of inactive players at the start of the day.
I'd wager 2.7 activated the flipped power (hence choosing it for the flip) which accounts for some of our extra energy (thanks man!), and I think he probably had rank 9.
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To be completely sincere, here's what happened with my train of thought:
I thought that the ability to choose a First Mate is too much of an advantage for a scumteam because they can play it however they want. After that I realised that, well, it's really not, because of the massclaim. Then I thought that well, actually it is a disbalance because 25 of initial energy is really not too much. And I still stand that choosing First Mate when you're a Captain is a Town power only.
Also, when I saw that I won't be a captain any more, I tried to draw a nightkill
So you lied when you claimed you could prove yourself as town? I don't like this. I think it's anti-town, if not scummy. Since the start, I've felt like you're playing your own game with your own tactics in a way that feels like scum with a gameplan.
Look, I am trying to make myself as useful as possible. I didn't lie, i think it's very OP for scum to have a power to choose a first mate. I can't now choose one, because I am not a captain any more. If I were a captain now, I would speak with you all about who I need to choose and this power could be really useful, but no, better have 4 votes. I wonder who's the captain now.
And I think that there is a confirmation bias. I am as anyone of us playing my own game because I know my role and everyone knows only theirs role for the time being so it's our own tactics, yes. But I am not scum for god's sake. Have you read my previous games?
Why didn't you want to do the 1st mate discussion on D1?
(I think this reads like town!LaLight to me.)
It strongly implied my claiming ib the first 72 hrs of the game
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Also really like Teproc's case on WW, actually. I was getting a scummy feeling from his play at the end of D1.
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I believe it's the first option, ie faust designed the roles, then rolled scum and gave scum powers to balance things given which characters rolled scum... but I also don't think it matters here. What you're doing here is trying to guess how faust feels about a fictional couple to find scum. That's... I mean just read that sentence and tell me it makes sense to you.
This is something we can't figure out. Aren't you the one always saying that playing WIFOM with the mod is always a losing game ? Why don't you use the actual available information taht's there rather than speculate on something unknowable anyway ?
Yes, I do think trying to WIFOM the mod is a losing proposition. I get the feeling that faust specifically designed this setup to challenge us to do that, though. A game where we don't need to lynch to kill? Mission cards like Resistance? My own role powers are clearly made in this spirit, not in the spirit of a mafia game.
I think this game is a love letter to Firefly/Serenity. I think ignoring that is dangerous, and not in the spirit of Faust's game.
As for actual information, that's what I'm using -- info available to me. Other than that, we have lynchproof-very likely town-Inarakrieg, townish Captain MaLight, and a lot of inactive players at the start of the day.
I'd wager 2.7 activated the flipped power (hence choosing it for the flip) which accounts for some of our extra energy (thanks man!), and I think he probably had rank 9.
I don't think River would have number 9, given the ending of the movie. Why do you think that?
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Also all of my powers are very mafiaish
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Also really like Teproc's case on WW, actually. I was getting a scummy feeling from his play at the end of D1.
Ww looks like he looked d1 in Kubo. i am waiting if he will step up and start being active.
Do you scumread Awaclus?
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I don't think River would have number 9, given the ending of the movie. Why do you think that?
I'm thinking more of the show, but she's clearly the least useful of the "crew" given she's not really a crew member and is more dangerous than anything else. She can't drive, fix anything, or heal anyone. I'd put her after Simon at 8/9.
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Also really like Teproc's case on WW, actually. I was getting a scummy feeling from his play at the end of D1.
Ww looks like he looked d1 in Kubo. i am waiting if he will step up and start being active.
Do you scumread Awaclus?
Yes.
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I don't think River would have number 9, given the ending of the movie. Why do you think that?
I'm thinking more of the show, but she's clearly the least useful of the "crew" given she's not really a crew member and is more dangerous than anything else. She can't drive, fix anything, or heal anyone. I'd put her after Simon at 8/9.
I'd put Shepherd on 9
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Also really like Teproc's case on WW, actually. I was getting a scummy feeling from his play at the end of D1.
Ww looks like he looked d1 in Kubo. i am waiting if he will step up and start being active.
Do you scumread Awaclus?
Yes.
Was there anything of substance in your neighborhood?
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I have a thought. Pure speculation.
What if e killed himself? What if he was odd-night sane even-night insane or something like this? Mafia didn't kill anyone because they both were on mission?
It's just still a very weird kill
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Also really like Teproc's case on WW, actually. I was getting a scummy feeling from his play at the end of D1.
Ww looks like he looked d1 in Kubo. i am waiting if he will step up and start being active.
Do you scumread Awaclus?
Yes.
Was there anything of substance in your neighborhood?
We said very little because we don't know each other's alignments. We confirmed our flavor names to each other (we weren't told who would be in the QT). I knew it was supposed to be Zoe, but not that Awaclus was Zoe. So I asked Awa who he was, he said Zoe, confirmed that much for me.
I mean, someone else could be Zoe (his partner) and they did a switch, but that seems extremely unlikely.
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I have a thought. Pure speculation.
What if e killed himself? What if he was odd-night sane even-night insane or something like this? Mafia didn't kill anyone because they both were on mission?
It's just still a very weird kill
I have some theories. One is that he was towny and was the mafia kill.
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I have a thought. Pure speculation.
What if e killed himself? What if he was odd-night sane even-night insane or something like this? Mafia didn't kill anyone because they both were on mission?
It's just still a very weird kill
I have some theories. One is that he was towny and was the mafia kill.
E, ok
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I don't think River would have number 9, given the ending of the movie. Why do you think that?
I'm thinking more of the show, but she's clearly the least useful of the "crew" given she's not really a crew member and is more dangerous than anything else. She can't drive, fix anything, or heal anyone. I'd put her after Simon at 8/9.
I'd put Shepherd on 9
No way, he's great. Spiritual advice, etc. Could be lots of things. And the religious/spiritual figure as part of a military outfit/spaceship crew is sensible. He's basically Troi.
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((Off Topic))
Has anyone watched Killjoys? I'm halfway through Season 1 and love it. Every scene makes me think "Man, this is exactly what Firefly wishes it could have been but failed so spectacularly at being."
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Also, for the record, this is the absolute towniest game I've played in at least a year. Feel free to quote this later when I'm dead or the game is over.
I've put more time into this game than any previous town game in memory.
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Also, for the record, this is the absolute towniest game I've played in at least a year. Feel free to quote this later when I'm dead or the game is over.
I've put more time into this game than any previous town game in memory.
I feel the same about me. I actually feel that I play like I did in Kubo
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I think lynching WW/pps/Awaclus in no particular order will win us the game
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Yeah, i'm on ash's side of this (except that show is terrible :P). If the alignment would be determined after roles, counting neighbourhood, all the roles would've had to be equally useful for town and scum. After e's flip we know it's wrong.
No, that's not how it works. Everyone has three powers, which means you could have one town utility power, one scum utility power and one whatever power. Or you could have a character who has only town utility powers and another who has only scum utility powers, balancing one another out regardless of which alignment gets those characters, respectively.
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I find it very hard to believe Faust has a list of players, a list of flavors, and a list of roles, randomly assigned each in the order you assume, then randomly chose two scum.
But that's what he said he did in the setup post. Do you find it easier to believe that he's secretly running this as a bastard game?
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I find it very hard to believe Faust has a list of players, a list of flavors, and a list of roles, randomly assigned each in the order you assume, then randomly chose two scum.
But that's what he said he did in the setup post. Do you find it easier to believe that he's secretly running this as a bastard game?
If you could quote that for me, that'd be helpful.
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The flavor names in the game are the names of the characters that form the permanent crew of Serenity in the TV series Firefly. Knowledge of the series will improve your game experience. Two of these have been randomly selected as mafia.
This is the portion of the setup post that has informed my own understanding. To parse for you:
1. The flavor names in the game are the names of characters that for the permanent crew of Serenity in the TV series Firefly. This tells us the nine names he chose, and from where they came.
2. Knowledge of the series will improve your game experience. This is there to inform players whether or not knowledge of the series is required. I believe it implies that it is not, but is preferred. Depending on how you define "game experience," though, it could mean that knowledge of the series will help you win the game.
3. Two of these have been randomly selected as mafia. There are only two acceptable antecedents for "these" in this paragraph -- "flavor names" or "names of the characters", both of which are the same thing. So, he states that two of the nine flavor/character names were randomly selected as mafia.
The final line there would seem to imply that faust had no say in determining which of the nine were mafia, and appears to support Awaclus's assertion.
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This changes my fundamental understanding of the game, my role, and everything I believed to be true, as I have been playing on the assumption that the game was intelligently designed.
That's my mistake on misreading the setup.
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Given this realization, I actually think mislynches could be helpful to town, no?
Alignment is secondary to powers in this setup. It doesn't matter if you are town or mafia, just what your powers do. Removing negative utility town is better than positive utility scum, for example.
We should be able to win just by full claiming powers.
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This changes my fundamental understanding of the game, my role, and everything I believed to be true, as I have been playing on the assumption that the game was intelligently designed.
That's my mistake on misreading the setup.
After that faust gave the roles. If he saw Zoe is scum and Wash is not, I can perfectly see him making a neighbourhood instead of ?Masons?
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This changes my fundamental understanding of the game, my role, and everything I believed to be true, as I have been playing on the assumption that the game was intelligently designed.
That's my mistake on misreading the setup.
After that faust gave the roles. If he saw Zoe is scum and Wash is not, I can perfectly see him making a neighbourhood instead of ?Masons?
I don't think that works. We've all agreed that the powers we all have are matched to the flavor.
So we have flavor role names that match flavor powers and have zero connection to alignment. From what I can understand, then, if both Zoe and Wash were randomly selected to be scum, we'd just have two QTs. That just doesn't compute, and one of the main reasons I could not understand/accept the Awaclusian definition of how the setup was designed.
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Question is: were powers made after or before alignment distribution? That would work then
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Because I first would determine who's scum and only then come up with the powers
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Faust admits there are times when role powers can/will be negative utility for the faction that holds them.
As an example: one of my "powers" is keeping ship energy usage 5 lower. That's exactly contrary to scum's win condition, so if scum has it, a bus and/or self-NK is the best play.
None of my powers is pro-scum, actually. Even the QT one is neutral at best because mafia have daychat anyway, so getting randomly matched with my scum partner wouldn't help. I guess mafia could try to sway a townie in a QT?
My third power will flip with me. If I die today, know that I did use it N1.
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Because I first would determine who's scum and only then come up with the powers
I guess he could have two sets of powers for each player, scummish and townish, with some that work either way. But still, that's a lot of extra work.
Seems more likely then that he designed a setup that works with any of the nine being bad, and actually forcing people to play against their wincon.
I think we have to un-clear gkrieg based on this realization. There's zero reason to believe that gkrieg MUST be town. It is simple to determine any single player's flavor name, or at least force them into confirming a flavor name is scum. So Inara's best play is claiming when the mission comes out, no matter what.
Gkrieg made the only choice available to him based on his flavor name, not his alignment. It helped town, but that's the power's design, regardless of his alignment.
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We definitely need to focus on powers and only powers, at least for awhile.
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Faust admits there are times when role powers can/will be negative utility for the faction that holds them.
As an example: one of my "powers" is keeping ship energy usage 5 lower. That's exactly contrary to scum's win condition, so if scum has it, a bus and/or self-NK is the best play.
None of my powers is pro-scum, actually. Even the QT one is neutral at best because mafia have daychat anyway, so getting randomly matched with my scum partner wouldn't help. I guess mafia could try to sway a townie in a QT?
My third power will flip with me. If I die today, know that I did use it N1.
Actually all of my powers could find a usage in scum's hands, though it makes mich more sense for town to have
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Because I first would determine who's scum and only then come up with the powers
I guess he could have two sets of powers for each player, scummish and townish, with some that work either way. But still, that's a lot of extra work.
Seems more likely then that he designed a setup that works with any of the nine being bad, and actually forcing people to play against their wincon.
I think we have to un-clear gkrieg based on this realization. There's zero reason to believe that gkrieg MUST be town. It is simple to determine any single player's flavor name, or at least force them into confirming a flavor name is scum. So Inara's best play is claiming when the mission comes out, no matter what.
Gkrieg made the only choice available to him based on his flavor name, not his alignment. It helped town, but that's the power's design, regardless of his alignment.
Yeah, if gkrieg realized it at that time which i think is clearly not the case. I really don't think scum cracked how the setup works N0
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Wait, are you telling me you hadn't read the setup OR the post that CJ and I quoted multiple times in this game ?
gkrieg is not cleared, he's townie, because he claimed immediately. I think scum would have hesitated, tried to see if they could get away with not claiming.
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Wait, are you telling me you hadn't read the setup OR the post that CJ and I quoted multiple times in this game ?
gkrieg is not cleared, he's townie, because he claimed immediately. I think scum would have hesitated, tried to see if they could get away with not claiming.
Yeah that
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This changes my fundamental understanding of the game, my role, and everything I believed to be true, as I have been playing on the assumption that the game was intelligently designed.
That's my mistake on misreading the setup.
This is what I've been trying to argue. Glad to be on the same page now. I felt like you were obsfucating.
Unvote
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So you weren't being obtuse, you were just a day behind. Great.
Now we can wait another day before you realise that energy is now basically irrelevant (as it is plentiful) and all we need to do is find scum by playing normal mafia, and potentially the help of PRs. Again, normal mafia.
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My point on energy is that we are still on a clock, not because of energy but because of NKs.
8 alive, one mislynch
1 NK
6 alive, one mislynch
1 NK
4 alive, scum wins. So if night go this way (which they very well could not), we have exactly one mislynch to give. So no, mislynches aren't good for town.
Now that this is out of the way, any idea who's scum, ash ?
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I mean if people have stuff to claim they can, but there is no reason to "focus on powers" that I can see. We're not going to catch scum through flavor, we'll catch them the usual ways.
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<b>Vote: ashersky</b>
Suggesting that we can use flavour and powers to guess at scum actively ignores Faust's "random" description in the set-up, and turns this into a game of sudoku. We have actual information we can discuss.
Obligatory "scumslip!"
Sorry, why is a formatting error a scumslip?
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<b>Vote: ashersky</b>
Suggesting that we can use flavour and powers to guess at scum actively ignores Faust's "random" description in the set-up, and turns this into a game of sudoku. We have actual information we can discuss.
Obligatory "scumslip!"
Sorry, why is a formatting error a scumslip?
Because QTs use HTML formatting while f.ds uses BBCode. So by using HTML on f.ds by accident, you're indicating that you're also in a QT, which would normally mean that you're scum but doesn't mean anything in this game because everyone has a QT where they have to submit stuff.
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<b>Vote: ashersky</b>
Suggesting that we can use flavour and powers to guess at scum actively ignores Faust's "random" description in the set-up, and turns this into a game of sudoku. We have actual information we can discuss.
Obligatory "scumslip!"
Sorry, why is a formatting error a scumslip?
In simpler games, only scum has a QT. So formatting bold things like you do in a QT is a "scumslip". It's more of a joke at this point, and it already kinda was when I started playing (like, four years ago)... and now that we use a lot more QTs for PRs, it's pretty outdated.
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Sorry guys very LA today. One thing to think of, missions might be better than lynching, only because of the POE that they give.
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Sorry guys very LA today. One thing to think of, missions might be better than lynching, only because of the POE that they give.
This is not The Resistance; missions only give us PoE if they do something relevant to the game. Because our energy level is so high, I'm not sure what that would need to be.
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Sorry guys very LA today. One thing to think of, missions might be better than lynching, only because of the POE that they give.
This is not The Resistance; missions only give us PoE if they do something relevant to the game. Because our energy level is so high, I'm not sure what that would need to be.
Good point, I guess scum wouldn't fail a mission at this point, because it has little chance to make a difference. It does give us PoE a tiny bit in who is killed where.
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There is that, I suppose. If we get to a point where no lynch would be correct, we can sculpt a mission to help PoE. Right now we know there is at least one scum in {Teproc, WW, PPS, LL, ash}.
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There is that, I suppose. If we get to a point where no lynch would be correct, we can sculpt a mission to help PoE. Right now we know there is at least one scum in {Teproc, WW, PPS, LL, ash}.
Exactly. But that doesn't help us much. It might help us more if we put some of those people on a mission. Depending on the mission.
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There is that, I suppose. If we get to a point where no lynch would be correct, we can sculpt a mission to help PoE. Right now we know there is at least one scum in {Teproc, WW, PPS, LL, ash}.
Did WW's VLA finish? I'd really like to hear more from them to get a read.
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There is that, I suppose. If we get to a point where no lynch would be correct, we can sculpt a mission to help PoE. Right now we know there is at least one scum in {Teproc, WW, PPS, LL, ash}.
Did WW's VLA finish? I'd really like to hear more from them to get a read.
Yes, I'm back.
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Wait, are you telling me you hadn't read the setup OR the post that CJ and I quoted multiple times in this game ?
gkrieg is not cleared, he's townie, because he claimed immediately. I think scum would have hesitated, tried to see if they could get away with not claiming.
I read it, multiple times. I went to the first page and read it there multiple times.
I honestly believe my mind just kept rearranging the words to make sense instead of accepting the nonsensical nature of the words as ordered.
Maybe nonsensical is wrong -- it just doesn't match the way I approach game design, even a little bit. And so that bias ended up making me completely misunderstand/mistake the way the game was built and therefore led me down the wrong path.
As it is, I think we can all agree that it is just as likely that Awaclus and I are partners as it is that we are both town.
And given that, we actually have zero information about anyone's alignment whatsoever, outside of 2.7's flip and any night actions that haven't been claimed.
Gkrieg's play may be towny, but that in no way, shape, or form makes him town-aligned. We learned NOTHING from his claim or his inclusion on the mission or the mission's success about alignment.
We don't even know if scum was on the mission given the kill was on-ship and we have mod confirmation that we don't know if the mission got special success.
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We could go on the mission today and fail it on purpose to see if the negative effects happen. If they do, then we know there was scum on D1's mission.
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Per Teproc's clock argument, we could no lynch every day to prolong the game.
Not sure that's optimal, but it does allow for more POE as townies die off at night.
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So you weren't being obtuse, you were just a day behind. Great.
Now we can wait another day before you realise that energy is now basically irrelevant (as it is plentiful) and all we need to do is find scum by playing normal mafia, and potentially the help of PRs. Again, normal mafia.
Energy may be plentiful today, but we use 10 today, 15 if you lynch me. If we skip all mission, we don't lose energy there, but we have to assume some powers may drain the ship's energy, too.
We could be down to critical levels within two days.
Why am I specifically "one day" behind, anyway?
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Vote: WW
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I mean if people have stuff to claim they can, but there is no reason to "focus on powers" that I can see. We're not going to catch scum through flavor, we'll catch them the usual ways.
Why don't we all just full flavor claim then, if flavor is fully irrelevant?
Let's each put our flavor name and the flavor names of all our powers in the game thread. Let's see if we can't figure anything out from those.
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Here is something I can do. Because I have a power that can be verified.
LL, what were the other possible missions on D1 ?
hmm I don't know if it is a good idea to tell... Not sure if bad though.
Well, one of them was the one in the opening post, won't tell exactly which. I saved it for the next captain to decide, he will acquire it.
Third one that was discarded was to gain a little of the contraband with 4 people to get it to the success. I thought it wasn't worth it at the time, primary goal was to mine some energy
The mission that was discarded is called Train robbery. It costs 0 energy, has 4/4 // 4/4 requirements/ Success is to gain 4 contraband, special success is +2 contraband with Walsh, failure is a loss of lynch the following day. If Hoban Washburn is part of the mission, one less success is needed.
One of my powers is to see the card that was discarded during the previous Captain phase. It's called Confession. I was considering posting a breadcrumb so that it could later be verified, but I didn't have time yesterday to think of how to do it.
It came up here so I figured I might as well.
PPEs
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That power might be enough for people to deduce my flavor.
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I'm open to suggestions on energy management that don't include much claiming, if any. If any explanation without those would make it hard to follow your train of thought, probably better yo stay quiet.
I do worry that given the importance of energy, scum powers are skewed toward it. Generally, they might tend toward robbery over killing, for example.
And here's my breadcrumb confirming what mission I needed. Too bad it was already discarded.
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Here is something I can do. Because I have a power that can be verified.
LL, what were the other possible missions on D1 ?
hmm I don't know if it is a good idea to tell... Not sure if bad though.
Well, one of them was the one in the opening post, won't tell exactly which. I saved it for the next captain to decide, he will acquire it.
Third one that was discarded was to gain a little of the contraband with 4 people to get it to the success. I thought it wasn't worth it at the time, primary goal was to mine some energy
The mission that was discarded is called Train robbery. It costs 0 energy, has 4/4 // 4/4 requirements/ Success is to gain 4 contraband, special success is +2 contraband with Walsh, failure is a loss of lynch the following day. If Hoban Washburn is part of the mission, one less success is needed.
One of my powers is to see the card that was discarded during the previous Captain phase. It's called Confession. I was considering posting a breadcrumb so that it could later be verified, but I didn't have time yesterday to think of how to do it.
It came up here so I figured I might as well.
PPEs
Confirmed
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That power might be enough for people to deduce my flavor.
Shep, I assume. What was your starting rank, if you don't mind sharing?
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That power might be enough for people to deduce my flavor.
Shep, I assume. What was your starting rank, if you don't mind sharing?
Let's just say bottom three.
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My powers are called "Captain", "Check Morale" and "Nominate" which is for choosing the First Mate
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I am basically sure I know the entire current rank order.
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I am basically sure I know the entire current rank order.
I have some doubts which you don't have, namely what rank are Jayne and Wash. Others are pretty clear, yeah
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I am basically sure I know the entire current rank order.
I have some doubts which you don't have, namely what rank are Jayne and Wash. Others are pretty clear, yeah
I mean which players, not which flavors.
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I am basically sure I know the entire current rank order.
I have some doubts which you don't have, namely what rank are Jayne and Wash. Others are pretty clear, yeah
I mean which players, not which flavors.
ah. Interesting
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Rereading day 1, I'm not convinced PPS is town but I think WW comes out looking scummiest. This reaction to PPS's vote in particular
Well wait, if we think someone is scummy, we really should vote for them.
Agreed, Vote: Gkrieg
Boo
strikes me as all kinds of wrong for town!WW, who's the type to like that kind of move. JUst in general, WW has been emulating his town posting style... but without having anything to actually say, and I think RMM, more than normal games, can be paralyzing for scum, especially early on, as you're always worried about scumslipping in some way because of some obscure point you missed in the setup.
vote: WW
Surprising. I think town!WW likes that kind of stuff generally.
PPE: In no way am I arguing that Zoe and Wash are both town... nor am I saying that there weren't variable elements to the setup depending on who rolled scum... all I'm saying is that speculating on the mod's feelings/thoughts is a waste of time.
PPE2: I do too but why are we talking about it ? What's the point ? And I still don't understand why you felt the need to propose so early on day 1, it's
Pretty sure I was "boo"ing there because I thought Gkrieg seemed town. I'm not really sure what your point is here.
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Vote: askersky
You're voting Ashersky for behavior that more often comes from town Ashersky.
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Also really like Teproc's case on WW, actually. I was getting a scummy feeling from his play at the end of D1.
What play at the end of D1?
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Vote Count 2.2
Awaclus (1): LaLight
Witherweaver (2): Teproc, pingpongsam
Not Voting (5): Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, ashersky, CheesyJelly
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 ends July 18 at 1 pm forum time.
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Vote: askersky
I have since unvoted.
You're voting Ashersky for behavior that more often comes from town Ashersky.
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Phone fail. See above. "I have since unvoted" was the reply. I really need to start hitting Preview.
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Why do we still not have a mission? Can we infer that the current Rank 1 player is somebody who wants a lynch instead?
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Why do we still not have a mission? Can we infer that the current Rank 1 player is somebody who wants a lynch instead?
Or to speak more
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As it is, I think we can all agree that it is just as likely that Awaclus and I are partners as it is that we are both town.
Well, no, it's not just as likely. Both scenarios are possible, but the odds of us both being scum are just ~3.5%, the odds of one of us being scum and the other being town are ~43% and the odds of us both being town are the remaining ~53.5% from a spectator's perspective (the odds are different if you're a player in this game and drastically different if you're one of us two).
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As it is, I think we can all agree that it is just as likely that Awaclus and I are partners as it is that we are both town.
Well, no, it's not just as likely. Both scenarios are possible, but the odds of us both being scum are just ~3.5%, the odds of one of us being scum and the other being town are ~43% and the odds of us both being town are the remaining ~53.5% from a spectator's perspective (the odds are different if you're a player in this game and drastically different if you're one of us two).
We know it is one of town/town, town/scum, scum/scum, so 33% for each. (False statistics ftw.)
This is that impossible-to-understand math thing with probability that I've always hated.
If we all have a 2/9 chance of being Wash or Zoe, then we all have equal chances of being Wash/Zoe. This seems correct even when someone else gets one of the two, because random.org assigns them all at once.
If all flavor names have a 2/9 chance of being scum, then we all have equal chances of being scum. This seems correct even when someone else gets one of the two, because random.org assigns them all at once.
You and I have the exact same chance of being scum. You and I had the exact same chance of rolling Wash/Zoe. Both of those statements are correct, or no?
If that's the case, why isn't it the exact same chance of us both being scum as not?
(Someone is going to do the thing with flipping ten coins in a row and saying while each one has a 50% chance of landing on heads, the chance of all of them landing on heads is tiny, and I'll still respond that it seems like each instance is separate so it shouldn't matter and you won't be able to explain to me how one independent coin flip would affect the result of the future coin flip.)
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Also really like Teproc's case on WW, actually. I was getting a scummy feeling from his play at the end of D1.
What play at the end of D1?
Rescinded, it was a different player, not you.
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Why does probability matter, remind me?
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I'm saying the alignments of myself and Awaclus are unclear, unknown, and just as likely to be scum as town.
Awaclus is saying that probability tells us we are both more likely to be town than scum.
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Not to be too self-centered, as Teproc called me, but maybe we should just lynch me here? As he said, we have too much energy to care, it would help with Awaclus's alignment, and would get the game moving?
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Not to be too self-centered, as Teproc called me, but maybe we should just lynch me here? As he said, we have too much energy to care, it would help with Awaclus's alignment, and would get the game moving?
Man, you know that this is anti-town proposal. It wouldn't help with Awaclus' alignment. Better help me lynch Awaclus if you're town.
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Anyway before the lynch we should wait the mission proposal
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Not to be too self-centered, as Teproc called me, but maybe we should just lynch me here? As he said, we have too much energy to care, it would help with Awaclus's alignment, and would get the game moving?
Man, you know that this is anti-town proposal. It wouldn't help with Awaclus' alignment. Better help me lynch Awaclus if you're town.
I agree it is anti-town in the short-term. Any mislynch is. But I fully believe mislynches can be the best thing for a game at the right time.
I would rather lynch Awaclus, yes. No argument there. It's just generally much easier to lynch me.
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Not to be too self-centered, as Teproc called me, but maybe we should just lynch me here? As he said, we have too much energy to care, it would help with Awaclus's alignment, and would get the game moving?
Man, you know that this is anti-town proposal. It wouldn't help with Awaclus' alignment. Better help me lynch Awaclus if you're town.
I agree it is anti-town in the short-term. Any mislynch is. But I fully believe mislynches can be the best thing for a game at the right time.
I would rather lynch Awaclus, yes. No argument there. It's just generally much easier to lynch me.
it's a weird conversation to have. I don't want to lynch you and I think we should make something that is not easy, but a correct lynch. I spent an action to semiICfy you. Again, if even 1 of scum was on a mission, you're a confirmed town to me. You should know it by the way.
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I'm saying the alignments of myself and Awaclus are unclear, unknown, and just as likely to be scum as town.
Awaclus is saying that probability tells us we are both more likely to be town than scum.
This is, you know, obvious, since there are more town than there are scum.
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I'm saying the alignments of myself and Awaclus are unclear, unknown, and just as likely to be scum as town.
Awaclus is saying that probability tells us we are both more likely to be town than scum.
This is, you know, obvious, since there are more town than there are scum.
The fact that we share a neighborhood does not decrease the likelihood that we are both scum.
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Not to be too self-centered, as Teproc called me, but maybe we should just lynch me here? As he said, we have too much energy to care, it would help with Awaclus's alignment, and would get the game moving?
Man, you know that this is anti-town proposal. It wouldn't help with Awaclus' alignment. Better help me lynch Awaclus if you're town.
I agree it is anti-town in the short-term. Any mislynch is. But I fully believe mislynches can be the best thing for a game at the right time.
I would rather lynch Awaclus, yes. No argument there. It's just generally much easier to lynch me.
it's a weird conversation to have. I don't want to lynch you and I think we should make something that is not easy, but a correct lynch. I spent an action to semiICfy you. Again, if even 1 of scum was on a mission, you're a confirmed town to me. You should know it by the way.
I do not know it. How am I supposed to know it?
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Not to be too self-centered, as Teproc called me, but maybe we should just lynch me here? As he said, we have too much energy to care, it would help with Awaclus's alignment, and would get the game moving?
Man, you know that this is anti-town proposal. It wouldn't help with Awaclus' alignment. Better help me lynch Awaclus if you're town.
I agree it is anti-town in the short-term. Any mislynch is. But I fully believe mislynches can be the best thing for a game at the right time.
I would rather lynch Awaclus, yes. No argument there. It's just generally much easier to lynch me.
it's a weird conversation to have. I don't want to lynch you and I think we should make something that is not easy, but a correct lynch. I spent an action to semiICfy you. Again, if even 1 of scum was on a mission, you're a confirmed town to me. You should know it by the way.
I do not know it. How am I supposed to know it?
This is VERY weird...
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Not to be too self-centered, as Teproc called me, but maybe we should just lynch me here? As he said, we have too much energy to care, it would help with Awaclus's alignment, and would get the game moving?
Man, you know that this is anti-town proposal. It wouldn't help with Awaclus' alignment. Better help me lynch Awaclus if you're town.
I agree it is anti-town in the short-term. Any mislynch is. But I fully believe mislynches can be the best thing for a game at the right time.
I would rather lynch Awaclus, yes. No argument there. It's just generally much easier to lynch me.
it's a weird conversation to have. I don't want to lynch you and I think we should make something that is not easy, but a correct lynch. I spent an action to semiICfy you. Again, if even 1 of scum was on a mission, you're a confirmed town to me. You should know it by the way.
I do not know it. How am I supposed to know it?
You should've been notified about my action
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There is some weirdness, yes. I almost suspect e was a lightning rod.
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There is some weirdness, yes. I almost suspect e was a lightning rod.
huuuh
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I'm saying the alignments of myself and Awaclus are unclear, unknown, and just as likely to be scum as town.
Awaclus is saying that probability tells us we are both more likely to be town than scum.
This is, you know, obvious, since there are more town than there are scum.
The fact that we share a neighborhood does not decrease the likelihood that we are both scum.
Right.
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For all of us on the ship I think our actions went towards e. Can any disprove that theory?
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For all of us on the ship I think our actions went towards e. Can any disprove that theory?
I can't approve it
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My action was not targeted, so I don't have info there.
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Also no info on that, but I did not receive anything from LL.
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Also no info on that, but I did not receive anything from LL.
That's bad and means you're not cleared in a bit. But you're still playing. very townie
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@ash, do you have any targetable actions?
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@ash, do you have any targetable actions?
No.
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@ash, do you have any targetable actions?
No.
That explains a lot.
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So what's going on? Ash should have got some info about you but didn't receive it? Do we think it went to e instead? Was it a one-shot?
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So what's going on? Ash should have got some info about you but didn't receive it? Do we think it went to e instead? Was it a one-shot?
Why do you need this info? Especially about one-shot or not?
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So what's going on? Ash should have got some info about you but didn't receive it? Do we think it went to e instead? Was it a one-shot?
Why do you need this info? Especially about one-shot or not?
I interpreted this as wanting to know if you are able to ICify again since it went bust last night.
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A mission card has been played:
Shore Leave
"Persephone is not home. Too many people we need to avoid. Resupply, look for work, move along. We sniff the air, we don't kiss the dirt."
Cost 0 energy
Conditions: n-1/n
Success: All participants may perform one additional action the following night. A mission pick does not end the following day.
Failure: -
The player that issues the mission may choose any number of crew members as long as at least 1 player remains on Serenity. The mission succeeds if at most one failure is sent.
Proposed crew: Teproc, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, LaLight, ashersky
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So what's going on? Ash should have got some info about you but didn't receive it? Do we think it went to e instead? Was it a one-shot?
Why do you need this info? Especially about one-shot or not?
I interpreted this as wanting to know if you are able to ICify again since it went bust last night.
Well, let's not give scum this info
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The hell
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Ha. I love you, captain, that's smart.
accept
This mission doesn't end the day.. which effextively means we shouldn't lynch awaclus fwiw
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Ha. I love you, captain, that's smart.
accept
This mission doesn't end the day.. which effextively means we shouldn't lynch awaclus fwiw
I think that's wrong -- if the mission passes, tomorrow's mission won't end the day. This mission will end the day without a lynch.
That said, it's a cool mission...for scum.
refuse
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If it's not clear why -- everyone but one player is on the mission -- that means one or both scum MUST be on the mission, which means they get to do double whatever they want, too.
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If it's not clear why -- everyone but one player is on the mission -- that means one or both scum MUST be on the mission, which means they get to do double whatever they want, too.
Ya, but if there is 2 on the mission, it would basically ICify Awaclus, but WIFOM. It would also completely implicate Awaclus.
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vote: PPS
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Oh.
I can't read properly.
refuse, no one needs double nk
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So what's going on? Ash should have got some info about you but didn't receive it? Do we think it went to e instead? Was it a one-shot?
Why do you need this info? Especially about one-shot or not?
I guess I don't. I was just confused about what was happening. Though if you're saying "something weird happened and now I can't prove I'm town" I'd find that suspicious. My current read on you is that you're townie in a way I don't enjoy, but I'm not 100% sold.
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I think I'm favorable to the mission? More town than scum would get the benefit. I confess, I first read it as applying only to personal abilities.
<b>Does the additional action include faction Night Kill?</b>
And it's a pretty good deal for us to not need to choose between mission and lynch tomorrow.
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I think I'm favorable to the mission? More town than scum would get the benefit. I confess, I first read it as applying only to personal abilities.
<b>Does the additional action include faction Night Kill?</b>
And it's a pretty good deal for us to not need to choose between mission and lynch tomorrow.
Oh lord. My thumbs don't want to play ball when I'm on phone.
Does the additional action include faction Night Kill?
Small font not allowed. I changed this.
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For crying out loud. The small text above was the failed bold from before. Somebody help me.
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Does the additional action include faction Night Kill?
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So what's going on? Ash should have got some info about you but didn't receive it? Do we think it went to e instead? Was it a one-shot?
Why do you need this info? Especially about one-shot or not?
I guess I don't. I was just confused about what was happening. Though if you're saying "something weird happened and now I can't prove I'm town" I'd find that suspicious. My current read on you is that you're townie in a way I don't enjoy, but I'm not 100% sold.
I am really sorry to hear that
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I am really sorry to hear that
I'm really sorry you're sorry. If you're town, then I'm just reacting negatively to you trying to work out how best to use your powers and situation, and there's nothing you can do about my reaction so please don't be offended. I think I'm naturally drawn to trust anybody who seems to be flailing around as much as I am, and I distrust anyone who appears to have an uncommunicated plan!
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Oh.
I can't read properly.
refuse, no one needs double nk
I don't think that is what it means. I think it means that you can use two actions, where normally you can only use one of your actions a night.
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Accept
Statistically this has to benefit town more than scum, right?
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You and I have the exact same chance of being scum. You and I had the exact same chance of rolling Wash/Zoe. Both of those statements are correct, or no?
If that's the case, why isn't it the exact same chance of us both being scum as not?
Because why would it be?
The chance of me being scum is 2/9. Assuming that I am scum, the chance of you being scum is 1/8. That means the chance of us both being scum is 2/9 * 1/8 = ~2.8%.
On the other hand, I have a 7/9 chance of being town. Assuming that I am town, the chance of you being town is 6/8. That means the chance of us both being town is 7/9 * 6/8 = ~58.3%.
(the numbers are different now because last time I accounted for the fact that we know e was town and now I didn't)
This, however, doesn't have anything to do with us being Wash and Zoe. We could say the same thing about Teproc and CheesyJelly — there's a 3.5% chance they're the scum team and a 53.5% chance they're both town (accounting for e's flip again here).
If you want to try this out, you can put 2 blue marbles and 7 red marbles in a bag and draw two of them at random, take note of the result, and repeat the process until you're convinced that drawing both of the blue marbles is very rare compared to drawing two of the red ones.
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I understand your marbles analogy, but I don't think it applies. Faust didn't pick marbles (players) out of a hat one by one -- they were all simultaneously selected. So the chances never changed from 2/9 to 1/8.
It's more like you dumped all the marbles out at once and they lined up a certain way. The chances that any single marble landing in any spot in line is the exact same (1/9).
It's the coin flip problem all over again. I have a blue quarter and a red quarter. On each, there is a heads side and a tails side. 50/50 chance for either side, regardless of coin color. We all agree on this point.
I flip the blue quarter. I have a 50/50 chance. It lands on heads. Okay.
Now I flip the red quarter. What is the chance the red quarter lands on heads?
I would incorrected say 50/50. Some mathist would say nope, it's 50% * 50%, so there's only a 25% chance the red quarter lands on heads.
It still makes zero sense to me, because no one can tell me why the physical reality of the red coin has changed because of some random other event. You could basically just say butterflies and it would make as much sense.
What if you didn't know the blue quarter landed on heads? Does it still make the red quarter 75% likely to land on tails?
And in mafia, does that mean that once a player flips scum, everyone else's chances of being town go up? Even though alignment was set before the game started?
I hate probability.
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Does the additional action include faction Night Kill?
No.
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I am really sorry to hear that
I'm really sorry you're sorry. If you're town, then I'm just reacting negatively to you trying to work out how best to use your powers and situation, and there's nothing you can do about my reaction so please don't be offended. I think I'm naturally drawn to trust anybody who seems to be flailing around as much as I am, and I distrust anyone who appears to have an uncommunicated plan!
This game is just much more advanced than usually, so I really do have an uncommunicated plan. Also, you shouldn't trust anyone who's not mod-confirmed ;)
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vote: pps
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Catching up.
Gkrieg's play may be towny, but that in no way, shape, or form makes him town-aligned. We learned NOTHING from his claim or his inclusion on the mission or the mission's success about alignment.
Yes, I'm doing this crazy thing called forming a read based on someone's play. I never pretended otherwise.
Why am I specifically "one day" behind, anyway?
Because the understanding of the setup you're coming to is something I thought we had dealt with yesterday already.
I mean if people have stuff to claim they can, but there is no reason to "focus on powers" that I can see. We're not going to catch scum through flavor, we'll catch them the usual ways.
Why don't we all just full flavor claim then, if flavor is fully irrelevant?
Let's each put our flavor name and the flavor names of all our powers in the game thread. Let's see if we can't figure anything out from those.
I'm not necessarily opposed to a flavor claim, though there is the problem of outing the rank order.
I'm very much opposed to revealing names of power... looking at mine, they're pretty revealing. I don't see the upside anyway, vs a real massclaim ?
Yes ash, your alignment and Awaclus's alignment are entirely up in the air, just as much as anyone else's. As far as I can remember, you were the only one ever doubting that.
I do hope I was clear that "self-centered" was not meant pejoratively at all.
ash saying lynching him would be the best for town gets us super close to completing ashersky Bingo.
I can't disprove a LightningRod!e theory. Makes sense for River too.
Probability does suck, ash, on that we agree.
Now the mission... I think it's pretty brilliant ? However, we need to assertain how useful it would be... for example, it would not be all that useful to me. I can do it if enough Prs like it and it prevents a NK, but I do want to be sure the benefits are real.
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The mission doesn't give me, personally, any advantages at all
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Self-hammer is the center square on the bingo card, I think.
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I think we should still fail the mission and have the 1st Mate re-submit anyway, no?
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We can have everyone say whether it helps or not, reduce the number on the mission by honest admissions.
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Vote Count 2.3
Witherweaver (2): Teproc, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (2): gkrieg13, LaLight
Not Voting (4): Awaclus, Witherweaver, ashersky, CheesyJelly
Accept (1): pingpongsam
Refuse (2): ashersky, LaLight
Not Voting (5): Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly, Teproc
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 ends July 18 at 1 pm forum time.
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I understand your marbles analogy, but I don't think it applies. Faust didn't pick marbles (players) out of a hat one by one -- they were all simultaneously selected. So the chances never changed from 2/9 to 1/8.
It's more like you dumped all the marbles out at once and they lined up a certain way. The chances that any single marble landing in any spot in line is the exact same (1/9).
Faust didn't pick marbles, faust shuffled the bag. And then we can pick any two marbles, such as me and you, or CheesyJelly and Teproc. It is the exact same math.
It's the coin flip problem all over again. I have a blue quarter and a red quarter. On each, there is a heads side and a tails side. 50/50 chance for either side, regardless of coin color. We all agree on this point.
I flip the blue quarter. I have a 50/50 chance. It lands on heads. Okay.
Now I flip the red quarter. What is the chance the red quarter lands on heads?
I would incorrected say 50/50. Some mathist would say nope, it's 50% * 50%, so there's only a 25% chance the red quarter lands on heads.
After the first coin has landed on heads, there is a 50% chance that the other one will land on heads as well — there is now a 100% chance that the first coin landed on heads because we already flipped it and we know for a fact that it did, so it's 100% * 50% = 50%. But before you know that the first one will land on heads, there is only a 25% chance that both of them will.
It still makes zero sense to me, because no one can tell me why the physical reality of the red coin has changed because of some random other event. You could basically just say butterflies and it would make as much sense.
It's not that the reality changes, it's that we acquire more information about it and then we can change the question we're asking to better fit the information that we have. There are four possible ways of flipping two coins (heads heads, heads tails, tails heads, tails tails) so each of them has a 25% chance of occurring. If we flip the first coin, we can eliminate two of those possibilities, leaving us with 50% for each of the remaining ones.
And in mafia, does that mean that once a player flips scum, everyone else's chances of being town go up? Even though alignment was set before the game started?
Yes. Originally, the odds of any given player being scum was 2/9, but if someone dies and flips scum, they go down to 1/8. If another person then dies and flips scum too, the odds go down to 0. Surely you wouldn't say that after the entire mafia team has been lynched, there is still a 2/9 chance that a given remaining player is scum?
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Can voters explain their reasoning, please? I'm finding it hard to catch up, but I don't think anyone has given a reason for any of these votes?
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Can voters explain their reasoning, please? I'm finding it hard to catch up, but I don't think anyone has given a reason for any of these votes?
My reason is that putting me on L-1 D1 was a very dangerous opportuinity to quickhammer and it was really unnecessary given that we have already decided to take a mission. One vote wouldn't influence my rank a lot, but pps still did it. Other than that he is not actively participating in the game which given pps' struggling with setups may be a trait of careful!scum
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to derphammer*
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To be perfectly clear, I am the current captain and the mission cards I was provided had errors on them and the corrections had errors too. Also, lots of clarifications were asked about what it might mean with the double actions. This mission was carefully selected to be as protown as possible.
LaLight is correct about me being careful. He is wrong about me being scum. I'm fine with being voted down from captain status but we should most certainly do the mission, preferably as I proposed it.
faust, please confirm there were multiple errors with the mission cards
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To be perfectly clear, I am the current captain and the mission cards I was provided had errors on them and the corrections had errors too. Also, lots of clarifications were asked about what it might mean with the double actions. This mission was carefully selected to be as protown as possible.
LaLight is correct about me being careful. He is wrong about me being scum. I'm fine with being voted down from captain status but we should most certainly do the mission, preferably as I proposed it.
faust, please confirm there were multiple errors with the mission cards
Can you explain as thoroughly as possible, why we should do this mission instead of lynch and wouldn't it be a buff for scum to make 2 actions?
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I guess I'll let PPS answer, but it all seems pretty oivious to me, assuming at least 3 town PRs benefit from it.
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accept
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To be perfectly clear, I am the current captain and the mission cards I was provided had errors on them and the corrections had errors too. Also, lots of clarifications were asked about what it might mean with the double actions. This mission was carefully selected to be as protown as possible.
LaLight is correct about me being careful. He is wrong about me being scum. I'm fine with being voted down from captain status but we should most certainly do the mission, preferably as I proposed it.
faust, please confirm there were multiple errors with the mission cards
Can you explain as thoroughly as possible, why we should do this mission instead of lynch and wouldn't it be a buff for scum to make 2 actions?
Statistics
Firstly, statistically we will mislynch so that seems like a pretty not good avenue to end the day. Second, yes scum gets buffed right along with a bunch of town.
I personally have two powers that can work together if the one action per night limit is lifted so I presume other town do as well. I see the worst case as scum failing the mission and getting in a NK. I think scum will want the double actions just as much so we will all get them and town powers should overwhelm scum powers through the power of statistics.
I would have thought all of the above was quite obvious and actually expected more questions surrounding my choice about leaving Awaclus behind.
Disclaimer: while I am degreed as an electronics engineer I actually work in construction and real, actual statistical math confounded me and was never a major course of my study. Since we're among a bunch of math nerds I am probably wrong about statistics. Consider it a lay use of the word. I'm more of a trig guy.
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Oh cool, PPS is not aware of why his pla
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Grrr..
n is great. Hold up a minute I'll find it for you.
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The mafia nightkill may only be performed by a player who is not on a mission, and may only target another such player. It is not mandatory.
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So there is literally no cost to it. Well... assuming the extra PR uses we get are better than the ones scum get. Which is what I think we should try to figure out.
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The mafia nightkill may only be performed by a player who is not on a mission, and may only target another such player. It is not mandatory.
Wow
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accept then
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Wait, are you telling me I'm the only one who read the setup ? It said in the rules you had too, people !
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accept then
There still is the issue of how much we actually benefit from this. I would like to hear from other townies on this first.
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Wait, are you telling me I'm the only one who read the setup ? It said in the rules you had too, people !
I have read the setup a lot, it just has a lot of little details that are not fixed in my memory
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accept then
There still is the issue of how much we actually benefit from this. I would like to hear from other townies on this first.
Well there is probably at least someone with an investigative role.
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accept then
There still is the issue of how much we actually benefit from this. I would like to hear from other townies on this first.
Well there is probably at least someone with an investigative role.
Yeah, well. Sure. I guess I can say that I had an investigative one-shot that I used on N1 and it didn't yield relevant results. So it's not a guarantee from my perspective.
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I confirm this is a useless mission for me. Still, given it means no NK, I can accept.
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Well, it being no NK isn't enough. Scum has other powers, obviously.
I don't get why people are in such a rush to accept/refuse in this game.
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Vote Count 2.4
Witherweaver (2): Teproc, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (2): gkrieg13, LaLight
Not Voting (4): Awaclus, Witherweaver, ashersky, CheesyJelly
Accept (4): pingpongsam, gkrieg13, LaLight, ashersky
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (4): Awaclus, Witherweaver, CheesyJelly, Teproc
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 ends July 18 at 1 pm forum time.
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Faust originally offered to confirm the mistakes in my QT but now that I have posted in the main thread about them he won't do so. I suppose you'll just have to believe that my delay and general absence was due to hashing out the issues with the missions.
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By the way, everyone's flavor and rank is basically known at this point, except for CJ and I... and even then, one can probably guess. I kind of like claiming flavor + rank, in part because it's so easy to figure out anyway, and then because we can use votes to make whoever we want captain then.
Thoughts ?
PPE: Whatever mistakes were made, what we see in the thread is correct, right ?
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Yeah no mistakes in the thread. However, looking over my powers I am seeing that the synergy I thought existed does not actually exist as one is restricted to only being on missions while the other is restricted to only being on the ship. I can still make use of the double actions but not to the epic play I was anticipating. When you brought up the NK restriction to ship only it reminded me of that bit in my own powers.
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I'm fine with the mission.
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I'm fine with the mission.
Fine, or enthusiastic ?
You know what I'm asking, right ?
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I'm fine with the mission.
Fine, or enthusiastic ?
You know what I'm asking, right ?
Well, I'm not like "wow this mission is awesome we'll surely win the game now that we have this mission" but I am like "we should accept this mission".
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refuse
To keep it from derphammer territory.
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By the way, everyone's flavor and rank is basically known at this point, except for CJ and I... and even then, one can probably guess. I kind of like claiming flavor + rank, in part because it's so easy to figure out anyway, and then because we can use votes to make whoever we want captain then.
Thoughts ?
PPE: Whatever mistakes were made, what we see in the thread is correct, right ?
You are way ahead of me in that case! I think I know 4 living roles and my own? Being on holiday has made it hard to sit and calculate and contribute in the way I would normally like to.
I'm totally undecided about the mission. I think it's somewhat useful for me? And it stops a NK tonight whilst not doubling one tomorrow... And we can lynch AND mission tomorrow. But it feels like most people are not bothered about using their powers twice? If that's the case, we should move towards lynching. But without a kill tonight we can postpone lynching safely? Oh I don't know.
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I think the trouble is people having ship-only powers. But I'm thinking this might also be the case for scum: they probably have a thing they can do on mission, maybe two, but I'm guessing it would actually lead to a somewhat quiet night. We do lose energy too. Still unsure if that's worth it.
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We don't lose any more energy than we normally would. The mission itself is zero energy. I would expect scum attacks on ship energy to require scum to be on ship. They can't NK on mission so the best they can do is fail the mission. I'm betting they want double actions bad enough to not do so. But if they do, it's basically a kill free night that passes.
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We don't lose any more energy than we normally would. The mission itself is zero energy. I would expect scum attacks on ship energy to require scum to be on ship. They can't NK on mission so the best they can do is fail the mission. I'm betting they want double actions bad enough to not do so. But if they do, it's basically a kill free night that passes.
Well yeah, but if they want it badly it's because they think it benefits them. We're essentially letting them chose. Which is fine, they could be wrong... I just realized my asking questions about which PRs benefit has probably helped them in that respect, sorry about that.
We do lose more energy than we would, because we're basically taking a day/night cycle off.
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We don't lose any more energy than we normally would. The mission itself is zero energy. I would expect scum attacks on ship energy to require scum to be on ship. They can't NK on mission so the best they can do is fail the mission. I'm betting they want double actions bad enough to not do so. But if they do, it's basically a kill free night that passes.
Well yeah, but if they want it badly it's because they think it benefits them. We're essentially letting them chose. Which is fine, they could be wrong... I just realized my asking questions about which PRs benefit has probably helped them in that respect, sorry about that.
We do lose more energy than we would, because we're basically taking a day/night cycle off.
But we also may get information, and we also get to do the mission tomorrow and lynch. It seems like a pretty good positive to me.
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I think this mission is good for town. I don't think this mission is good for scum. We get more information, there's no NK and we can lynch tomorrow (with our more info) as well as doing a mission.
Scum either need to be killing us or attacking energy and this mission doesn't let them do either.
accept
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I think I would be okay with it.
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Mission crew is everyone but Awaclus?
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Mission crew is everyone but Awaclus?
Um, I hadn't noticed that. PPS ?
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Proposed crew: Teproc, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, LaLight, ashersky
I suppose the idea is that if there were an NK it would have to be Awaclus.
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Mission crew is everyone but Awaclus?
Um, I hadn't noticed that. PPS ?
The mission says 1 member has to stay on the serenity
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Hm. I completely missed that, now I'm the one not reading properly.
That changes things. I think we should leave somemone with a useful off-mission power behind. Their alignment doesn't matter either way, it still means no NK.
I don't think Awaclus has claimed anything in particular ? I've already claimed to have be more useful off-mission, which I am but it's not amazing or anything, so if someone strongly feels they should be off-ship maybe they should manifest themselves ? Of course if they're scum they can maybe use something... so I guess I nominate myself.
refuse
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Like I said, earlier, I didn't expect hand wringing over the mission I selected as it seemed to me to be major pro-town, but I was expecting consternation over who I chose to leave behind. My concern is a scum first mate so I went for mass appeal,
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Vote Count 2.5
Witherweaver (2): Teproc, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (2): gkrieg13, LaLight
Not Voting (4): Awaclus, Witherweaver, ashersky, CheesyJelly
Accept (4): pingpongsam, gkrieg13, LaLight, CheesyJelly
Refuse (2): ashersky, Teproc
Not Voting (2): Awaclus, Witherweaver
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 1 ends July 18 at 1 pm forum time.
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Hm. I completely missed that, now I'm the one not reading properly.
That changes things. I think we should leave somemone with a useful off-mission power behind. Their alignment doesn't matter either way, it still means no NK.
I don't think Awaclus has claimed anything in particular ? I've already claimed to have be more useful off-mission, which I am but it's not amazing or anything, so if someone strongly feels they should be off-ship maybe they should manifest themselves ? Of course if they're scum they can maybe use something... so I guess I nominate myself.
refuse
Would it be useful for you to use your off-site mission ability twice tomorrow night though?
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I don't think it allows the same power to be used twice. We all have three powers each and the reward allows us to use 2 of those three in one night. If this were not the case scum would get 2 NKs.
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Faust has confirmed it doesn't apply to faction NK.
Can the extra ability use be used to use the same ability twice?
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Can the extra ability use be used to use the same ability twice?
Yes.
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Also, why don't we leave 2 people off-ship?
Or eve 3 people?
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Wait, the following night is the night after the mission?
So it would be N3, and not N2, like I thought it would be?
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Wait, the following night is the night after the mission?
So it would be N3, and not N2, like I thought it would be?
Correct.
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Also, why don't we leave 2 people off-ship?
Or eve 3 people?
Because taking scum off the mission gives them a NK. And taking town off the mission gives fewer double actions to town.
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Also, why don't we leave 2 people off-ship?
Or eve 3 people?
Because taking scum off the mission gives them a NK. And taking town off the mission gives fewer double actions to town.
But taking one scum off the mission means NK = 1 scum being outed...
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I suppose two people work: scum can NK but that outs them, so...
And no, I don't really have stuff I'd want to use twice, even off-mission.
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So with 2 off the mission, scum won't NK, so we don't learn anything and lose townie utility in terms of double actions. I think we need to hear from those not voting for the mission, and start thinking about lynching. WW's silence is troubling me.
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I don't think Awaclus has claimed anything in particular ? I've already claimed to have be more useful off-mission, which I am but it's not amazing or anything, so if someone strongly feels they should be off-ship maybe they should manifest themselves ? Of course if they're scum they can maybe use something... so I guess I nominate myself.
I have confirmed that I'm in a QT with ash, and also I had a power that I wanted to tell everyone I didn't use last night. That's basically what you know.
Being alone off-mission is not too bad for me, but it's less than ideal. Let's say I would have more control over things if I was on the mission with everyone, but I'm not sure if I would be able to actually take advantage of that. So I actually support this idea.
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Leaving me on the planet with only one other person is bad. I need to be where majority is
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So with 2 off the mission, scum won't NK, so we don't learn anything and lose townie utility in terms of double actions. I think we need to hear from those not voting for the mission, and start thinking about lynching. WW's silence is troubling me.
I'm a troublesome guy. It somehow does not trouble me.
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So, what exactly are we waiting for? I think we should leave Awaclus and someone with useful power on the ship and others should go on mission. Agreed?
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Still don't get why Awaclus, since he says it's less than ideal ? But whatever, it looks like e and myself might have been the only ones benefitting from being on the ship since no one else seems interested.
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Is the mission at L-1?
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Still don't get why Awaclus, since he says it's less than ideal ? But whatever, it looks like e and myself might have been the only ones benefitting from being on the ship since no one else seems interested.
I'm marginally better to be on the ship.
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Still don't get why Awaclus, since he says it's less than ideal ? But whatever, it looks like e and myself might have been the only ones benefitting from being on the ship since no one else seems interested.
because we won't at least one of the scum off the mission so he wouldn't get the profit and Awaclus is one of the scumreads.
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we want*
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Still don't get why Awaclus, since he says it's less than ideal ? But whatever, it looks like e and myself might have been the only ones benefitting from being on the ship since no one else seems interested.
I'm marginally better to be on the ship.
wait, you used to say it's better you be on mission?
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Still don't get why Awaclus, since he says it's less than ideal ? But whatever, it looks like e and myself might have been the only ones benefitting from being on the ship since no one else seems interested.
because we won't at least one of the scum off the mission so he wouldn't get the profit and Awaclus is one of the scumreads.
Yours, maybe. I don't particularly read him as scum. If we're doing that we need to go by votes, which means either PPS or WW right now.
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Still don't get why Awaclus, since he says it's less than ideal ? But whatever, it looks like e and myself might have been the only ones benefitting from being on the ship since no one else seems interested.
I'm marginally better to be on the ship.
wait, you used to say it's better you be on mission?
Sorry, not paying enough attention. I want to be on the mission (momentarily forgot that being on the mission is not being on the ship.)
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Still don't get why Awaclus, since he says it's less than ideal ? But whatever, it looks like e and myself might have been the only ones benefitting from being on the ship since no one else seems interested.
because we won't at least one of the scum off the mission so he wouldn't get the profit and Awaclus is one of the scumreads.
Yours, maybe. I don't particularly read him as scum. If we're doing that we need to go by votes, which means either PPS or WW right now.
Well I'd kind of like to go along. It's nice to get off the ship now and again.
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Does anyone want to claim first mate so we can discuss whether we actually want to give that person the opportunity to reassign participants? I suppose I'd feel better about someone claiming since they'd feel obligated to go with consensus instead of wrecking us in secret. Personally I think the mission is perfectly fine as proposed.
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Well, the First Mate is Awaclus, unless something weird is going on.
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Well, the First Mate is Awaclus, unless something weird is going on.
He had 2 votes. Should be on 4th place now
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Well, the First Mate is Awaclus, unless something weird is going on.
He had 2 votes. Should be on 4th place now
Rank 4. But First Mate still. I guess it could be gkrieg if Inara started rank 4.
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Well, the First Mate is Awaclus, unless something weird is going on.
He had 2 votes. Should be on 4th place now
Rank 4. But First Mate still. I guess it could be gkrieg if Inara started rank 4.
I did not start at rank 4.
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PPS is Jayne (Rank 3, Captain)
Awaclus is Zoe (Rank 4, First Mate)
gkrieg is Inara (Rank 5)
ashersky is Wash (Rank 5)
LaLight is Mal (Rank 5)
This is where we are I believe - did not include the lower part to keep CJ/me unclear, but I think pps being Jayne should be clear to anyone giving it five seconds of thought. gkrieg and ash I'm not completely sure about... I suppose Wash could conceivably have started at rank 3 , making him First Mate right now ? I doubt it though.
I think we should claim all of this by the way, but maybe I'm way off. I think the only areas of uncertainty are CJ/me - maybe - and some numbers, but scum already might have more info there than individual townies, so I think it should all be in the open.
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Well, the First Mate is Awaclus, unless something weird is going on.
He had 2 votes. Should be on 4th place now
Rank 4. But First Mate still. I guess it could be gkrieg if Inara started rank 4.
First Mate is the one on rank 2. Or I don't remember the setup again
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Well, the First Mate is Awaclus, unless something weird is going on.
He had 2 votes. Should be on 4th place now
Rank 4. But First Mate still. I guess it could be gkrieg if Inara started rank 4.
First Mate is the one on rank 2. Or I don't remember the setup again
It's the player with the second lowest rank number.
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Maybe we're using "rank" differently, but whatever, see above.
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You guys should figure out if it is better to claim or not.
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Again, I think it's pretty easy to figure out anyway, except for CJ/me, and even then I might have given stuff away with all the open speculation I've done. If CJ is fine with claiming his flavor, I'd be fine with it too. WW didn't outright claim I suppose, but it's pretty obvious from what he did claim.
And I do strongly think we should claim rank, and coordinate on who we want to be captain/first mate tomorrow.
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Well, the First Mate is Awaclus, unless something weird is going on.
He had 2 votes. Should be on 4th place now
Rank 4. But First Mate still. I guess it could be gkrieg if Inara started rank 4.
First Mate is the one on rank 2. Or I don't remember the setup again
It's the player with the second lowest rank number.
Rank number changes when you acquire votes. My rank number right now is #5
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Again, I think it's pretty easy to figure out anyway, except for CJ/me, and even then I might have given stuff away with all the open speculation I've done. If CJ is fine with claiming his flavor, I'd be fine with it too. WW didn't outright claim I suppose, but it's pretty obvious from what he did claim.
And I do strongly think we should claim rank, and coordinate on who we want to be captain/first mate tomorrow.
I guess I agree with the claiming rank thing. But we only get our ordering from faust every day right?
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Well, the First Mate is Awaclus, unless something weird is going on.
He had 2 votes. Should be on 4th place now
Rank 4. But First Mate still. I guess it could be gkrieg if Inara started rank 4.
First Mate is the one on rank 2. Or I don't remember the setup again
It's the player with the second lowest rank number.
Rank number changes when you acquire votes. My rank number right now is #5
Yes. Do you think there is not Captain and no First Mate right now ? Because under your interpretation, that would be the case. Again, see above. #608
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Rank order is as follows during the Day:
Adam (1)
Beatrix (2)
Clotilde (3)
Donald (4)
Ernest (5)
The end of day vote count is this:
Adam (2): Beatrix, Donald
Beatrix (1): Clotilde
Donald (2): Adam, Ernest
This gives the following numbers: Adam - 3, Beatrix - 3, Clotilde - 3, Donald - 6, Ernest - 5. Clotilde takes rank 1 because they did not receive any votes. The new rank order is this:
Clotilde (1)
Beatrix (2)
Adam (3)
Ernest (4)
Donald (5)
PPS is #1, the previous #4 is #2
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Again, I think it's pretty easy to figure out anyway, except for CJ/me, and even then I might have given stuff away with all the open speculation I've done. If CJ is fine with claiming his flavor, I'd be fine with it too. WW didn't outright claim I suppose, but it's pretty obvious from what he did claim.
And I do strongly think we should claim rank, and coordinate on who we want to be captain/first mate tomorrow.
I guess I agree with the claiming rank thing. But we only get our ordering from faust every day right?
Yeah, but the only way it changes - well unless some PRs affect it but I doubt it - is through votes at the end of th day, so your rank has not changed sinc.
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previous #4 didn't receive any votes, so he's on second now
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PPS is Jayne (Rank 3, Captain)
Awaclus is Zoe (Rank 4, First Mate)
gkrieg is Inara (Rank 5)
ashersky is Wash (Rank 5)
LaLight is Mal (Rank 5)
There, LL, I quoted it for you. Clear enough ?
If it's not: the above assumes W/ash started at 4 and gkrieg/Inara at 5.
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So we could claim rank number (starting rank + number of votes) and rank order.
My rank number is 8, and at the start of the day it was 8.
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Oh. Well I didn't expect that. Maybe my whole speculation is wrong then. Hm. I wonder who's rank 5.
I'm rank 6, and that obviously hasn't changed.
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PPS is Jayne (Rank 3, Captain)
Awaclus is Zoe (Rank 4, First Mate)
gkrieg is Inara (Rank 5)
ashersky is Wash (Rank 5)
LaLight is Mal (Rank 5)
There, LL, I quoted it for you. Clear enough ?
If it's not: the above assumes W/ash started at 4 and gkrieg/Inara at 5.
Ah, I am sorry. Yeah, got it
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Interesting thing is that I am right now #5. pps, Awa and ash are above. But who else?
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Interesting thing is that I am right now #5. pps, Awa and ash are above. But who else?
pps and whoever started at 5, so CJ or WW, just replace gkrieg with CJ/WW in my speculation above. They could also be at 4 and ash at 5. Or maybe weirder stuff than that, Inara being below at least two of the people not from the original crew is weird to me.
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You all seem to be wrong. PPS was 4, now #1. You should be able to figure the rest from there.
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Well, ash woud be at 6 now, and I'd have moved up, so that's not possible, since I'm still in 6th position. He must have started at 4 or less.
PPE: Ar you claiming first mate ?
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If so, that means the original order was - at the top:
Mal
Zoe
Wash
Jayne
Eh, sure.
In which case...
Jayne/pps : rank 4
Wash/ash: rank 4
Zoe/Awaclus: rank 4
Unknown flavor/CJ or WW: rank 5
Mal/LaLight : rank 5
Unknown flavor/Teproc: rank 6
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After D1, it looked like this:
544456789
The third four had no votes, the second had one, the first had two.
So original 4 goes to 1, 3 goes to 2, 2 goes to 3, 5 goes to 4, 1 goes to 5. All others stay the same.
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Ash is correct. I was #5, now #4. Teproc, your numbers seem right, but you're talking about the score that is used to determine rank. E.g. Jayne got a score of 4, but is now Rank #1. Helpful to keep the numbers separate (as not all scores are equal in rank) but not essential.
That should mean ashersky is Rank #2, e.g. current First Mate? We should bear that in mind in terms of passing on the current team, but I don't really see the issue with tonight's mission. Doesn't it basically guarantee no Night Kill? Moving people because they want to be on the ship, for whatever reason, risks scum shenanigans as far as I can see.
We should, however, make sure that we keep voting (before mission hammer) to move our townie reads up towards the top ranks. I'm struggling with where to put my vote, so would welcome thoughts on the subject.
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Well yeah, because those are the relevant numbers. The ones we can manipulate through voting and that we need to know. I did put stuff in order to make things clear, but since I got stuff wrong it got confusing. To sum up, initial ranks were thus
1. LaLight / Mal - 1
2. Awaclus / Zoe - 2
3. ashersky / Wash - 3
4. pingpongsam / Jayne - 4
5. CJ / ??? - 5
6. Teproc / ??? - 6
7. WW / ??? I guess - 7
8. gkrieg / Inara - 8
9. e / River - 9
Then day 1 ended with 4 votes on LL, 2 on Awaclus and 1 on ash, which gives us
1. pps - 4
2. ashersky - 4
3. Awaclus - 4
4. CJ - 5
5. LaLight - 5
6. Teproc - 6
7. WW - 7
8. gkrieg - 8
If the d
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If the day ended know, we'd have
1. ash - 4
2. Awaclus - 4
3. CJ - 5
4. LL - 5
5. Teproc - 6
6. pps - 6
7. gkrieg - 8
8. WW - 9
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now*
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If the day ended know, we'd have
1. ash - 4
2. Awaclus - 4
3. CJ - 5
4. LL - 5
5. Teproc - 6
6. pps - 6
7. gkrieg - 8
8. WW - 9
No. After D1 ash is not 4 but 2, numbers adjust from 1 to 8, they do not stay as 4/4/4
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Well, the First Mate is Awaclus, unless something weird is going on.
He had 2 votes. Should be on 4th place now
I'm on 3rd place because you were above me and dropped below me.
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LaLight is correct. Votes get added to current rank (your leftmost numbers) not previous score.
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I've yet to see a benefit to being overly precise about this right now. If we want different mission crew and we trust ash, let's sort that. But I'd rather be scum hunting. Any thoughts anybody?
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I've yet to see a benefit to being overly precise about this right now. If we want different mission crew and we trust ash, let's sort that. But I'd rather be scum hunting. Any thoughts anybody?
I have told some thoughts about pps and Awaclus. Also I scumread WW for absence
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I will submit whatever team you all want. This clearly is a safe call -- not following up on the promise is basically the worst thing ever, as we can just refuse and/or lynch me.
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La di da
Accept
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A missioning we will go, a missioning we will go, hi ho the derrio
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Hoorayah
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Was that hammer?
This game has died.
Also, do people really think I would be scum here?
I have reads but am not sharing them. You have to come to confessional.
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Was that hammer?
This game has died.
Also, do people really think I would be scum here?
I have reads but am not sharing them. You have to come to confessional.
What is all of this supposed to mean?
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I don't speak in code!
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Was that hammer?
This game has died.
Also, do people really think I would be scum here?
I have reads but am not sharing them. You have to come to confessional.
What is all of this supposed to mean?
The part about people thinking I'm as scum is that I think some people voted for me. Not all have played with me before I think.
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Though maybe Trproc is the first. Trproc is always pretty wrong about me. I'd say something about what that indicates about my read of him but I said I wasn't giving reads.
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Day 2 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (2): Teproc, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (2): gkrieg13, LaLight
Not Voting (4): Awaclus, Witherweaver, ashersky, CheesyJelly
Accept (5): pingpongsam, gkrieg13, LaLight, CheesyJelly, Witherweaver
Refuse (2): ashersky, Teproc
Not Voting (2): Awaclus, Witherweaver
With 8 alive, it took 5 to approve a mission.
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In the aftermath of the attack on River, the whole crew was upset. Zoe suggested to throw all passengers out of Serenity, leaving only the core crew. Mal had the whole ship searched, believing that someone was after River and still hid on the ship - but they found nobody. Jayne suggested that maybe River just hit herself. "You know, because she's not right in the head."
Sitting in the ship, always close to one another was clearly not helping, so they decided to take Serenity to a remote planet where everyone could sort out their own issues for a while.
Teproc, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, LaLight and ashersky embark on a mission!
Night 2 begins. Due to falling on the weekend, I will extend the night action deadline to 36 hours. Day 3 will start as soon as possible thereafter.
THREAD LOCKED!
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Everyone spent a day off. However, when they returned someone was missing. Where had Wash gone? Zoe and he had separated on planet when he was intent on going into a toy shop that she just wouldn't enter - but that should only have taken half an hour...
ashersky has been killed! They were Hoban Washburne, the Academy Pilot! He had the following power:
Essential Crew Member
Once during the game, at night, you may activate this. If you do and would die that night, you will survive and the lowest-ranking player will die instead. (If you are the lowest-ranking player, you will still die.)
The mission fails!
pingpongsam is lynchproof today. Any vote placed against them will not be counted as a vote.
Current energy level: 55
The ship uses 15 points energy per night.
Vote Count 3.0
Not Voting (7): Teproc, Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, LaLight
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 3 ends July 24 at 4 pm forum time.
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Ok then. Awaclus is town I guess
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Ah, stop. how the hell did we have a nk
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And have the mission fail?
So Awaclus really is town?
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And have the mission fail?
So Awaclus really is town?
I guess
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Someone messed with me last night and I could only target LaLight. I took no action.
I had a plan, but that ruined it.
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Awaclus is town because there was an NK? I don't get it.
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Awaclus is town because there was an NK? I don't get it.
No, I'm town because the mission failed.
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I swear this feels more like a bastard game.
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A mission card has been played:
Scavenge
"Now we have a boatful of citizens right on top of our... stolen cargo. That's a fun mix."
Cost: 0 energy
Conditions: 3/3 // 4/4
Success: 10 points energy, 3 contraband
Failure: No effect
Proposed crew:
Awaclus, gkrieg13, LaLight
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Accept
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What ? No, stop. We need to lynch today.
WW, explain in more detail than this. Also if someone can confirm they "messed with" WW that would help, but somehow I doubt that'll happen.
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I don't like pps being lynchproof at all btw. Whoever is making pople lynchproof, I wish they'd stop.
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Let's recap what we know.
There is at least one scum in {CJ, LL, PPS,Teproc, WW} (da
There is at least one scum in {CJ, gkrieg, LL, PPS, Teproc, WW}
Which is not particularly helpful but might be at some point.
If anyone can explain ash's death, I'd like to hear it, because I suspect this was linked to a character power rather than mafia thing.
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I guess the second one is just everyone but Awaclus, which is true of literally any such group, so never mind that.
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WW, explain in more detail than this. Also if someone can confirm they "messed with" WW that would help, but somehow I doubt that'll happen.
this is a rolefishing
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I am a little lost. Need to think thoroughly about the game.
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WW, explain in more detail than this. Also if someone can confirm they "messed with" WW that would help, but somehow I doubt that'll happen.
this is a rolefishing
Well, if WW doesn't explain I think we should definitely lynch him, so.
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WW, explain in more detail than this. Also if someone can confirm they "messed with" WW that would help, but somehow I doubt that'll happen.
this is a rolefishing
Well, if WW doesn't explain I think we should definitely lynch him, so.
Why?
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Hammering a mission we didn't agreed on, and which resulted in death and failure isn't enough for you ? Also I already thought he was scum. His "oopsie my plan didn't work out" is convenient too, but I'm willing to hear it, hence the "rolefishing".
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There is at least one scum in {CJ, gkrieg, LL, PPS, Teproc, WW}
No, that group contains both scum. The mission should have been a success with only 1 scum on it.
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I would lynch WW I think.
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There is at least one scum in {CJ, gkrieg, LL, PPS, Teproc, WW}
No, that group contains both scum. The mission should have been a success with only 1 scum on it.
Oh, right, you are an IC now. That's good at least.
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Are we 100% certain that there's no other way a mission can fail than scum submitting failures? We were wrong about a Night Kill, what if we're wrong about this?
Awaclus is now pushing a mediocre mission instead of a lynch, and I don't like it. I'm not ready to treat anybody as IC right now. Otherwise, I support what Teproc's saying. Town points for sense-making.
I would also like to hear more from WW, ESPECIALLY if no-one is willing to confirm the redirection. To put some pressure behind this request:
Vote: WitherWeaver
If WW and Awaclus are partners, they'd want to hammer a mission they could fail with 1 scum somehow, because they'd get a surprise NK and make Awaclus look like IC. We're in a worse place now than had we lynched yesterday and I hate it.
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Awaclus is now pushing a mediocre mission instead of a lynch, and I don't like it. I'm not ready to treat anybody as IC right now. Otherwise, I support what Teproc's saying. Town points for sense-making.
It's not a mediocre mission. We're going to need the contraband for the mission that I set aside.
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Awaclus is now pushing a mediocre mission instead of a lynch, and I don't like it. I'm not ready to treat anybody as IC right now. Otherwise, I support what Teproc's saying. Town points for sense-making.
It's not a mediocre mission. We're going to need the contraband for the mission that I set aside.
So we'll just go two days without lynching? What's the pay-off?
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Awaclus is now pushing a mediocre mission instead of a lynch, and I don't like it. I'm not ready to treat anybody as IC right now. Otherwise, I support what Teproc's saying. Town points for sense-making.
It's not a mediocre mission. We're going to need the contraband for the mission that I set aside.
Unless the payoff is "town wins the game", I don't think it's worth just letting scum kill two nights in a row.
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Hammering a mission we didn't agreed on, and which resulted in death and failure isn't enough for you ? Also I already thought he was scum. His "oopsie my plan didn't work out" is convenient too, but I'm willing to hear it, hence the "rolefishing".
Huh? You're making weird connections.
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Are we 100% certain that there's no other way a mission can fail than scum submitting failures? We were wrong about a Night Kill, what if we're wrong about this?
Awaclus is now pushing a mediocre mission instead of a lynch, and I don't like it. I'm not ready to treat anybody as IC right now. Otherwise, I support what Teproc's saying. Town points for sense-making.
I would also like to hear more from WW, ESPECIALLY if no-one is willing to confirm the redirection. To put some pressure behind this request:
Vote: WitherWeaver
If WW and Awaclus are partners, they'd want to hammer a mission they could fail with 1 scum somehow, because they'd get a surprise NK and make Awaclus look like IC. We're in a worse place now than had we lynched yesterday and I hate it.
Yeah I'd just make up being manipulated.
I was not redirected. I was informed I could only target LaLight. I did not think LaLight was scum, so I did not rather him.
I'm not going to tell you what my role was.
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That should say, "target him".
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That should say, "target him".
Did you make Confession then?
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Yeah I'd just make up being manipulated.
Why not? If we buy it, it means that we don't think you could have killed ashersky, so you get away with it. If you're town and it really happened, I don't understand why you'd bring it up.
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You also haven't explained why you hammered the mission whilst we had loads of time and were discussing other options.
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Yeah I'd just make up being manipulated.
Why not? If we buy it, it means that we don't think you could have killed ashersky, so you get away with it. If you're town and it really happened, I don't understand why you'd bring it up.
Why wouldn't I?
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You also haven't explained why you hammered the mission whilst we had loads of time and were discussing other options.
Oh, I was somehow confused that a day of no posting was discussing. My bad.
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That should say, "target him".
Did you make Confession then?
No. I can only do it while not on a mission.
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I'm intrigued with Awaclus' plan around the mission.
Awaclus, are you scum reading LaLaight or do you think you staffed the mission with all town?
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What ? No, stop. We need to lynch today.
WW, explain in more detail than this. Also if someone can confirm they "messed with" WW that would help, but somehow I doubt that'll happen.
Why do you doubt that would happen? Odd thing to say.
I expected someone to claim the power.
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Awaclus is town because there was an NK? I don't get it.
No, I'm town because the mission failed.
Okay, then:
"Awaclus is town because the mission failed? I don't get it."
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I think NK was made by a vig
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Vig shooting Ash would be very poor.
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Vig shooting Ash would be very poor.
But not unheard of.
vote: PPS
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Vig shooting Ash would be very poor.
But not unheard of.
vote: PPS
he's indestructable
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Oh ya. Hmmmmmm
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I'm intrigued with Awaclus' plan around the mission.
Awaclus, are you scum reading LaLaight or do you think you staffed the mission with all town?
This question is bad and you should feel bad.
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I highly doubt ash was a scum NK. Scum shouldn't have been able to NK in the first place, and killing ash wouldn't make sense because he wasn't the guy they ICd by failing the mission and he wasn't even the towniest on the mission in case they could only target out of those. I also don't think it was a vig kill, so there's probably some other shenanigans going on.
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I'm intrigued with Awaclus' plan around the mission.
Awaclus, are you scum reading LaLaight or do you think you staffed the mission with all town?
This question is bad and you should feel bad.
Well, I don't feel too bad about trying to determine if you are using the mission to find scum or because you expect it to succeed without issue. If the latter I'm inclined to accept. If the former I think we should pick someone besides Lalight.
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I'm intrigued with Awaclus' plan around the mission.
Awaclus, are you scum reading LaLaight or do you think you staffed the mission with all town?
This question is bad and you should feel bad.
Well, I don't feel too bad about trying to determine if you are using the mission to find scum or because you expect it to succeed without issue. If the latter I'm inclined to accept. If the former I think we should pick someone besides Lalight.
I am using the mission for a carefully planned purpose. I'm not sure if it's better than lynching today.
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What ? No, stop. We need to lynch today.
WW, explain in more detail than this. Also if someone can confirm they "messed with" WW that would help, but somehow I doubt that'll happen.
Why do you doubt that would happen? Odd thing to say.
I expected someone to claim the power.
Because either you're scum or whoever did it is scum. Maybe some town PR messed you up, I'm allowing for that, but I just doubt it. MOstly because I think you're scum.
I agree with gkrieg btw.
I think PPS should claim what he did last night.
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ash was not a scum NK in that he wasn't THE scum NK. He was killed by some PR. Which may or may not have been scum.
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What ? No, stop. We need to lynch today.
WW, explain in more detail than this. Also if someone can confirm they "messed with" WW that would help, but somehow I doubt that'll happen.
Why do you doubt that would happen? Odd thing to say.
I expected someone to claim the power.
Because either you're scum or whoever did it is scum. Maybe some town PR messed you up, I'm allowing for that, but I just doubt it. MOstly because I think you're scum.
I agree with gkrieg btw.
I think PPS should claim what he did last night.
How is it at all more likely that it is a scum PR than a town one? Isn't it in fact more probable to be a town PR?
Unless it's some kind of factional thing.
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Also, for those considering I could be lying: I already said I did not take an action last night. That would be a dangerous claim to make as scum.
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It's not more likely to be a scum PR, it's just more likely that you're scum. I guess I can see how my first sentence would be unclear there.
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So if we do the mission, we should probably vote people to ensure that Awaclus stays the Captain.
If not, we should lynch, especially knowing we have a vig potentially. I think the POE is pretty good.
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Also, most people have posted and I don't see any confirmation, so
vote: WW
You're making a "risky" claim because you knew going in you'd get suspicion for D2 and you're hoping to shake it off with the idea of a plan.
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Vig should claim, I think.
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It's not more likely to be a scum PR, it's just more likely that you're scum. I guess I can see how my first sentence would be unclear there.
So, as I said, your initial position is a really odd one to take.
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Also, most people have posted and I don't see any confirmation, so
vote: WW
You're making a "risky" claim because you knew going in you'd get suspicion for D2 and you're hoping to shake it off with the idea of a plan.
This seems like either bad play or scum play from you.
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Vig should claim, I think.
WHATTTTTTTT????????
I am 100% against that.
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Can we explain this thing about Awaclus being town?
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Can we explain this thing about Awaclus being town?
There had to be two scum on the mission because it failed, and I couldn't have been one of them because I wasn't on the mission.
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Can we explain this thing about Awaclus being town?
There had to be two scum on the mission because it failed, and I couldn't have been one of them because I wasn't on the mission.
Why does failure mean there has to be two scum on the mission?
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Can we explain this thing about Awaclus being town?
There had to be two scum on the mission because it failed, and I couldn't have been one of them because I wasn't on the mission.
Why does failure mean there has to be two scum on the mission?
Because n-1 of the players on the mission had to submit success for it to succeed. And that means 2 gave a failure, which means both scum were on the mission.
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Or any of the options that make that not true:
*Scum has a factional ability, say, "Once per game, you can use this, and the mission this night fails."
*Target a player to make them submit "Failure"
*Some similar type of thing
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I mean or a town submitted Failure for some reason, though if so they should probably claim it.
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Or any of the options that make that not true:
*Scum has a factional ability, say, "Once per game, you can use this, and the mission this night fails."
*Target a player to make them submit "Failure"
*Some similar type of thing
And how likely do you think those options are?
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Or any of the options that make that not true:
*Scum has a factional ability, say, "Once per game, you can use this, and the mission this night fails."
*Target a player to make them submit "Failure"
*Some similar type of thing
And how likely do you think those options are?
Fairly.
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Vote Count 3.1
Witherweaver (2): CheesyJelly, Teproc
Not Voting (5): Awaclus, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, LaLight
Proposed crew: Awaclus, gkrieg13, LaLight
Accept (1): Awaclus
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (6): Teproc, Witherweaver, gkrieg13, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, LaLight
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 3 ends July 24 at 4 pm forum time.
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So if we do the mission, we should probably vote people to ensure that Awaclus stays the Captain.
We should be voting anyway to move scummy players down the rank order. I'm not convinced about Awaclus' innocence yet.
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So if we do the mission, we should probably vote people to ensure that Awaclus stays the Captain.
We should be voting anyway to move scummy players down the rank order. I'm not convinced about Awaclus' innocence yet.
So you think that WW's scenarios are likely?
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I think WW knows something he isn't sharing that suggests to him some similar scenario is possible.
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I think WW knows something he isn't sharing that suggests to him some similar scenario is possible.
Obviously I'm scum and sabotaged the mission. InbeforeTeprocsaysit.
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I think WW knows something he isn't sharing that suggests to him some similar scenario is possible.
Obviously I'm scum and sabotaged the mission. InbeforeTeprocsaysit.
I wasn't making an alignment suggestion.
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I suggest town.
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I want to know why Teproc wanted the vig to claim? Seems super scummy of him.
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I want to know why Teproc wanted the vig to claim? Seems super scummy of him.
Agreed. Also CJ is scummy today
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I want to know why Teproc wanted the vig to claim? Seems super scummy of him.
Agreed. Also CJ is scummy today
I agree with this. Something about him just seems off.
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vote: Teproc
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vote: Teproc
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So, LaLight and gkrieg agree CJ is scummy but have no case to make and then both vote teproc. Did I miss the memo?
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So, LaLight and gkrieg agree CJ is scummy but have no case to make and then both vote teproc. Did I miss the memo?
I am thinking that both CJ and Teproc are scummy. Although CJ is more of a gut feeling, whereas Teproc is rolefishing.
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Um, what ? I'm curious if you can think of a single instance of scum rolefishing by blatatntly saying "I think X should claim", but whatever.
The vig SHOULD claim, and when I say this I really mean "whoever caused ash's death". The reason for this is pretty simple: by understanding what happens last night, we can know if Awaclus really is an IC, and we can know more about what scum can or can't do: it seems possible to me that scum had a one-shot that allowed them to kill on mission under specific circumstandces (and of course they could just have gotten a vig character but that's beside the point).
There is also no cost to this. I assume people think I'm scum for asking the vig to claim because they assume scum wants to kill the vig ? If scum wants to kill the vig, I'm absolutely fine with that. Vigs are anti-town 90% of the time, they're only really good if you're behind (which we're not, and the vig definitely shouldn't have shot last night because of this), or in counterclaim situations which are impossible in this setup. That makes them anti-town because everyone wants to be a hero and singlehandedly wins the game for scum, and they shoot when they shouldn't: last night, for example.
Now, if you think that's all wrong and vigs are great, there is still a situation in which he should claim, and that's if he's PPS. Because Jayne is the obvious Vig PR in this setup: it could be sopmeone else, but Jayne is the obvious one, and if he's the vig and scum wants to kill vigs, they'll kill PPS anyway.
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Now to the actually importnat part of this day: how is anyone not voting WW right now ? That's beyond me ? The guy hammers a mission we did not agree on: we were discussing a better way to do it with two people off-ship possibly etc... then *surprise, surprise* it goes poorly, and WW says he had a plan and it didn't work.
So either
a) WW is telling the truth
b) WW is scum, saw an opportunity for scum to profit off this situation (because he knew he could sneak in a NK) and pounced, then coming up with a flimsy explanation... not even that actually since he doesn't want to explain. Let's make him.
I suppose my belief that it is b) is related to the above. I don't think there's a vig. I don't think a vig would have shot last night. I think scum had a way of getting a NK through with the mission as proposed, and WW ensured that it could happen by hammering.
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I'm truly surprised about the rolefishing accusations btw, coming from experienced players. Rolefishing is one of those things people constantly talk about but I don't think I've ever seen happen.
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LaLight and Gkrieg: Are you willing to lynch Teproc? Because if you aren't, you should move your votes.
I really hope you aren't scum, Teproc, because you're the only person making sense to me right now. I don't see meaningful scum hunting happening. I don't mind not voting, but at least acknowledge or defend the WW thing. So without actual scum hunting, we should be looking to get a better picture about what happened last night, which is precisely what Teproc is doing.
I have no idea why people are now reading me as scummy, as I'm saying the same things I've been saying all game.
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I will say this: I think CJ is town (his paranoia about me is super townie, reminds me of the Voltaire/me dynamic in GoT with roles reversed), and most likely both LL and gkrieg are town too. Maybe one of them (gkrieg seems the most likely) is scum, but I doubt they would form a united front so obviously if there were scum together, especially against me, as no one had been suspecting me all game and there'd be a real risk of such a move going poorly.
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I will say this: I think CJ is town (his paranoia about me is super townie, reminds me of the Voltaire/me dynamic in GoT with roles reversed), and most likely both LL and gkrieg are town too. Maybe one of them (gkrieg seems the most likely) is scum, but I doubt they would form a united front so obviously if there were scum together, especially against me, as no one had been suspecting me all game and there'd be a real risk of such a move going poorly.
so, from your PoV it's WW/PPS? I believe WW, and I read pps as town, so from my PoV it's you and CJ. Maybe gkrieg.
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I will say this: I think CJ is town (his paranoia about me is super townie, reminds me of the Voltaire/me dynamic in GoT with roles reversed), and most likely both LL and gkrieg are town too. Maybe one of them (gkrieg seems the most likely) is scum, but I doubt they would form a united front so obviously if there were scum together, especially against me, as no one had been suspecting me all game and there'd be a real risk of such a move going poorly.
so, from your PoV it's WW/PPS? I believe WW, and I read pps as town, so from my PoV it's you and CJ. Maybe gkrieg.
What do you believe WW about? Because there has been no explanation for the scummy mission-hammer.
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I will say this: I think CJ is town (his paranoia about me is super townie, reminds me of the Voltaire/me dynamic in GoT with roles reversed), and most likely both LL and gkrieg are town too. Maybe one of them (gkrieg seems the most likely) is scum, but I doubt they would form a united front so obviously if there were scum together, especially against me, as no one had been suspecting me all game and there'd be a real risk of such a move going poorly.
so, from your PoV it's WW/PPS? I believe WW, and I read pps as town, so from my PoV it's you and CJ. Maybe gkrieg.
Or WW/PPS. Didn't realise that PoEd so much actually. Definitely think the people not taking strong positions right now are much more likely to be scum.
Why do you believe WW ? He hasn't even said anything we can believe in, just a vague "I had a plan". I guess there's "I was forced to target LL", but I'll believe that when/if someone confirms it.
And if you want to accuse me of rolefishing, I would be favorable to a massclaim at this point. People can keep one or two powers secret if they need to, but claiming night actions up till now seems like a good idea to me.
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I meant "or WW/gkrieg" there.
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I will say this: I think CJ is town (his paranoia about me is super townie, reminds me of the Voltaire/me dynamic in GoT with roles reversed), and most likely both LL and gkrieg are town too. Maybe one of them (gkrieg seems the most likely) is scum, but I doubt they would form a united front so obviously if there were scum together, especially against me, as no one had been suspecting me all game and there'd be a real risk of such a move going poorly.
so, from your PoV it's WW/PPS? I believe WW, and I read pps as town, so from my PoV it's you and CJ. Maybe gkrieg.
What do you believe WW about? Because there has been no explanation for the scummy mission-hammer.
nah, not the mission hammer but that he was redirected onto me.
e scummily hammered the mission D1, still he was town. Hammering mission is not scummy
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I will say this: I think CJ is town (his paranoia about me is super townie, reminds me of the Voltaire/me dynamic in GoT with roles reversed), and most likely both LL and gkrieg are town too. Maybe one of them (gkrieg seems the most likely) is scum, but I doubt they would form a united front so obviously if there were scum together, especially against me, as no one had been suspecting me all game and there'd be a real risk of such a move going poorly.
so, from your PoV it's WW/PPS? I believe WW, and I read pps as town, so from my PoV it's you and CJ. Maybe gkrieg.
Or WW/PPS. Didn't realise that PoEd so much actually. Definitely think the people not taking strong positions right now are much more likely to be scum.
Why do you believe WW ? He hasn't even said anything we can believe in, just a vague "I had a plan". I guess there's "I was forced to target LL", but I'll believe that when/if someone confirms it.
And if you want to accuse me of rolefishing, I would be favorable to a massclaim at this point. People can keep one or two powers secret if they need to, but claiming night actions up till now seems like a good idea to me.
ah, I don't see the point in hiding it anymore. It was me who directed him onto myself. I thought that if he has some scum powers, they won't do anything useful given that now my role/rank/powers/name is a public information.
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I will say this: I think CJ is town (his paranoia about me is super townie, reminds me of the Voltaire/me dynamic in GoT with roles reversed), and most likely both LL and gkrieg are town too. Maybe one of them (gkrieg seems the most likely) is scum, but I doubt they would form a united front so obviously if there were scum together, especially against me, as no one had been suspecting me all game and there'd be a real risk of such a move going poorly.
so, from your PoV it's WW/PPS? I believe WW, and I read pps as town, so from my PoV it's you and CJ. Maybe gkrieg.
What do you believe WW about? Because there has been no explanation for the scummy mission-hammer.
nah, not the mission hammer but that he was redirected onto me.
e scummily hammered the mission D1, still he was town. Hammering mission is not scummy
I disagree e's hammer was particularly scummy. I certainly didn't think much of it back then, whereas I went inton the night thinking WW was most likely scum and expecting a better justification for it today than "oopsie, that didn't work out".
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N1 I directed ash, but he didn't have any targetable powers, so he didn't know about it
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I will say this: I think CJ is town (his paranoia about me is super townie, reminds me of the Voltaire/me dynamic in GoT with roles reversed), and most likely both LL and gkrieg are town too. Maybe one of them (gkrieg seems the most likely) is scum, but I doubt they would form a united front so obviously if there were scum together, especially against me, as no one had been suspecting me all game and there'd be a real risk of such a move going poorly.
so, from your PoV it's WW/PPS? I believe WW, and I read pps as town, so from my PoV it's you and CJ. Maybe gkrieg.
Or WW/PPS. Didn't realise that PoEd so much actually. Definitely think the people not taking strong positions right now are much more likely to be scum.
Why do you believe WW ? He hasn't even said anything we can believe in, just a vague "I had a plan". I guess there's "I was forced to target LL", but I'll believe that when/if someone confirms it.
And if you want to accuse me of rolefishing, I would be favorable to a massclaim at this point. People can keep one or two powers secret if they need to, but claiming night actions up till now seems like a good idea to me.
ah, I don't see the point in hiding it anymore. It was me who directed him onto myself. I thought that if he has some scum powers, they won't do anything useful given that now my role/rank/powers/name is a public information.
Hm. Ok.
I still think WW should claim whatever his plan was.
PPE: Do we know he didn't have targetable powers ? Or do you know because you were told ?
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e scummily hammered the mission D1, still he was town. Hammering mission is not scummy
Town doing a scummy thing doesn't stop it being scummy. Doing a scummy thing and ignoring all questioning about it is double-scummy.
PPE: 4
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ash claimed he had no targetable powers when LaLight asked.
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Not to be too self-centered, as Teproc called me, but maybe we should just lynch me here? As he said, we have too much energy to care, it would help with Awaclus's alignment, and would get the game moving?
Man, you know that this is anti-town proposal. It wouldn't help with Awaclus' alignment. Better help me lynch Awaclus if you're town.
I agree it is anti-town in the short-term. Any mislynch is. But I fully believe mislynches can be the best thing for a game at the right time.
I would rather lynch Awaclus, yes. No argument there. It's just generally much easier to lynch me.
it's a weird conversation to have. I don't want to lynch you and I think we should make something that is not easy, but a correct lynch. I spent an action to semiICfy you. Again, if even 1 of scum was on a mission, you're a confirmed town to me. You should know it by the way.
I do not know it. How am I supposed to know it?
You should've been notified about my action
Also no info on that, but I did not receive anything from LL.
@ash, do you have any targetable actions?
No.
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K, I had forgotten about all that.
What's the flavor name for that power ?
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K, I had forgotten about all that.
What's the flavor name for that power ?
Captain
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K, I had forgotten about all that.
What's the flavor name for that power ?
Captain
That' the name of the power ? Just "Captain" ? Huh.
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K, I had forgotten about all that.
What's the flavor name for that power ?
Captain
yeah, why?
That' the name of the power ? Just "Captain" ? Huh.
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quote fail.
Yeah, why?
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Whatever, seems too risky to fakeclaim... weird power for Mal to have, but I guess I believe it.
Awaclus: I think we should massclaim with you giving the order. Maybe only claiming 2 of the 3 powers if people prefer that, but I do think it'd help us figure things out at this point.
PPE: My powers all have longer names than that (like, 3 words), so I was taken aback.
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I guess maybe not. Whatever, I'll let Awaclus figure out if he wants a massclaim or not, we can just ignore that for the time being and we'll do it if he wants to.
Regardless of anything else though, WW should explain what his plan was. If he doesn't want to that's fine too, we can just lynch him.
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We're also waiting to hear about the pay-off for Awaclus' two-mission plan.
I think I'm against massclaim because of reasons. I don't see how it helps. Anybody want to convince me?
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Fine. I don't actually have convincing reasons, I just want to know stuff because I like knowing stuff (well, it's a bit more than that but nothing overtly convincing anyway). If there are reasons no to do it, which it sounds like there are, that's ok.
I forgot Awaclus wanted to do a mission. I will reiterate than any payoff has to find or kill scum to possibly be worth it (or prevent scum from killing at night I suppose).
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Well, I don't really want to explain too much about the mission plan because unfortunately it's not going to work if scum is prepared for it, but it should help us find (but not outright kill) scum as long as today's mission is a success and there are also other benefits. I'm still not sure if it's better than lynching today; it's certainly better than mislynching though.
I also don't want to mass claim right now.
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Obviously I get that you can't explain, but you do need to make a decision then. Just bear in mind that it has to be worth losing a townie + 15 energy and, based on last night, it doesn't seem like we're doing anything all that great at night.
I don't love your choice of people though. I think you+CJ+either LL or me would be better... there is a benefit to me being off-mission but it's not super important right now, so preferably me, though obviously that depends on your reads... and I know you don't want to share those, and I actually agree for once.
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Losing two townies actually, since it's two missions. Puts us at lylo if everything goes right... yeah I just don't like it at all actually.
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I mean, even if it fully solved the game there would be a certain amount of risk to it. Worth it, but still... and it doesn't sound like it outright does that.
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I would better not go on mission
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Losing two townies actually, since it's two missions. Puts us at lylo if everything goes right... yeah I just don't like it at all actually.
But then again, so does a mislynch here. I think it depends on how much we think WW is scum, because if he can't do anything to convince us otherwise, then I'd rather lynch him, but otherwise I'd rather go on the mission.
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I would better not go on mission
But if you're town, this would be a great chance for you to do something pro-town to remove some of the suspicion around you.
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I would better not go on mission
But if you're town, this would be a great chance for you to do something pro-town to remove some of the suspicion around you.
that's true. But who will I redirect on mission? My action will be wasted.
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that's true. But who will I redirect on mission? My action will be wasted.
Well, if you have a redirecting ability, it's probably for the best for town if you don't use it tbh.
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I will say this: I think CJ is town (his paranoia about me is super townie, reminds me of the Voltaire/me dynamic in GoT with roles reversed), and most likely both LL and gkrieg are town too. Maybe one of them (gkrieg seems the most likely) is scum, but I doubt they would form a united front so obviously if there were scum together, especially against me, as no one had been suspecting me all game and there'd be a real risk of such a move going poorly.
so, from your PoV it's WW/PPS? I believe WW, and I read pps as town, so from my PoV it's you and CJ. Maybe gkrieg.
What do you believe WW about? Because there has been no explanation for the scummy mission-hammer.
I wanted to go on the mission.
Also, you keep using that word; I don't think it means what you think it means.
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I guess maybe not. Whatever, I'll let Awaclus figure out if he wants a massclaim or not, we can just ignore that for the time being and we'll do it if he wants to.
Regardless of anything else though, WW should explain what his plan was. If he doesn't want to that's fine too, we can just lynch him.
I'm certainly not going to do anything to appease you.
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Vote: WW
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approve
Also I think mass claim hurts a lot more than it helps at this point. It is way too early.
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Vote Count 3.2
Witherweaver (3): CheesyJelly, Teproc, Awaclus
Teproc (2): gkrieg13, LaLight
Not Voting (2): Witherweaver, pingpongsam
Proposed crew: Awaclus, gkrieg13, LaLight
Accept (1): Awaclus
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (6): Teproc, Witherweaver, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, LaLight, gkrieg13
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 3 ends July 24 at 4 pm forum time.
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accept
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I guess maybe not. Whatever, I'll let Awaclus figure out if he wants a massclaim or not, we can just ignore that for the time being and we'll do it if he wants to.
Regardless of anything else though, WW should explain what his plan was. If he doesn't want to that's fine too, we can just lynch him.
I'm certainly not going to do anything to appease you.
Further evidence this is scum!WW by the way. Town!WW would be concerned that I'm town reading him wrong and trying to reason with me, or thinking I'm scum and voting for me.
ANyway I wasn't under the impression you'd do that to appease me but to avoid being lynched, and you're now at L-1, all we need is an intent to hammer.
I think even Awaclus would agree with me that anyone hammering the mission would be obvscum ? We're clearly not done with the day.
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all we need is an intent to hammer.
We haven't played together in a long while but if we had you would already know I am your huckleberry.
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I really think we should do missions instead of lynching. I think the POE from missions is stronger than lynching.
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I guess maybe not. Whatever, I'll let Awaclus figure out if he wants a massclaim or not, we can just ignore that for the time being and we'll do it if he wants to.
Regardless of anything else though, WW should explain what his plan was. If he doesn't want to that's fine too, we can just lynch him.
I'm certainly not going to do anything to appease you.
Further evidence this is scum!WW by the way. Town!WW would be concerned that I'm town reading him wrong and trying to reason with me, or thinking I'm scum and voting for me.
ANyway I wasn't under the impression you'd do that to appease me but to avoid being lynched, and you're now at L-1, all we need is an intent to hammer.
I think even Awaclus would agree with me that anyone hammering the mission would be obvscum ? We're clearly not done with the day.
Evidence? What?
"Town!WW would be concerned that I'm town reading him wrong and trying to reason with me, or thinking I'm scum and voting for me."
This doesn't even make sense. I certainly either think you're town or think you're scum, and I by absolutely no means need to do either of the two things you conveniently slip into your false dichotomy.
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I'm going to claim when and what I want to claim, I'm going to vote when I want to vote, I'm going to hammer whateverthefuckIwant when I want to. And I'll reason with people when and where it's appropriate.
Stop trying to pretend like you have a case.
Or, do keep trying to, I guess.
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I'm going to claim when and what I want to claim, I'm going to vote when I want to vote, I'm going to hammer whateverthefuckIwant when I want to. And I'll reason with people when and where it's appropriate.
Stop trying to pretend like you have a case.
Or, do keep trying to, I guess.
We don't need to have a case. You need to have a defense.
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Vote: WW
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oh my
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What's good for the goose must be good for the gander, no?
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What's a gander?
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If we're going to lynch, we should lynch scum.
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If we're going to lynch, we should lynch scum.
I am afraid you are lynched
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That's a bit dumb.
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Well, at least you definitely don't have to explain yourself to anyone now. We'll see how dumb it was...
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Well, at least you definitely don't have to explain yourself to anyone now. We'll see how dumb it was...
I definitely did not have to before.
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Well, at least you definitely don't have to explain yourself to anyone now. We'll see how dumb it was...
I definitely did not have to before.
If you're town, may you now claim, so we will have some info that'll help us?
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It's pretty likely both scum are on my wagon, but unfortunately it doesn't really change the PoE pool from what it was before.
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There's nothing helpful. After all, I already said what I did Night 1, and I couldn't do anything last night, thanks to you.
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If ww is town i think we should lynch pps after all
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Teproc has been the worst; go back and check out his testing of waters yesterday and artificial scumreading today.
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Well, I'm sorry if you're town WW, but "I'll claim when I want to claim" when you were at L-1 with PPS basically stating intent to hammer was not a very bright move.
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CheesyJelly has looked bad, but hasn't played with me before, so I'm milder there.
PPS I didn't really have any read on yet.
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Teproc has been the worst; go back and check out his testing of waters yesterday and artificial scumreading today.
Artificial ? I was scumreading you yesterday, somewhat, and then you did a super scummy thing, which you apparenrtly don't understand was scummy.
You put an end to the day when we clearly weren't done discussing. With a mission that was pretty dicey. And a plan that clearly didn't work. If you're town, that's on you.
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Well, I'm sorry if you're town WW, but "I'll claim when I want to claim" when you were at L-1 with PPS basically stating intent to hammer was not a very bright move.
It shows that I'm town, for one.
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Teproc has been the worst; go back and check out his testing of waters yesterday and artificial scumreading today.
Artificial ? I was scumreading you yesterday, somewhat, and then you did a super scummy thing, which you apparenrtly don't understand was scummy.
You put an end to the day when we clearly weren't done discussing. With a mission that was pretty dicey. And a plan that clearly didn't work. If you're town, that's on you.
We spent an entire real life day without a post.
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And we were doing the mission anyway. It was going to happen; I was just getting on with it.
My plan was a low probability to have an upside, but I felt like doing something.
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I really suck at RMM I guess, even the non-RMMy parts. Either that or WW is doing twilight WIFOM, but I don't remember him doing that in the past.
PPE: No, we were thinking abuot doing the mission with more people off. "I felt like doing something" isn't enough.
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No, the thread died and we were all going to settle on doing it anyway.
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Stop rewriting history. The fact that you were lynched today should prove to you that your hammer WAS scummy, even if you thought it wasn't. Even if two scum are on, that means two townies gfot it wrong. We're responsible for that, but so are you.
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I'd have put the odds at us doing a reworked version of the mission with two people off at like 80%.
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It's exactly the opposite of scummy.
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But no, Big Mister WW knew better than everyone else and had tp hammer because "I felt like doing something";
Well, next time you'll think twice.
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Another odd comment from you.
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Like, you don't bring anything to the discussion for most of the day, then you show up an d go "nothing to see here, I guess I'll hammer haha I'm so great at the game" ? If you're town that's just awful, and you should feel bad. The mislynchee always bears half the responsiblity.
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Odd indeed...
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Another odd comment from you.
Whatever, you'll see after the game that I'm town and genuinely pissed. I thought better of town:you.
Possible that I'm tilting at windmills and you're scum anyway, I guess.
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Odd indeed...
Yeah yeah we get it, you'll mislynch me next. Have fun with that.
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I had discussed as much as I wanted to.
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I had discussed as much as I wanted to.
Indeed, and what else matters after all, thatn what YOU want to discuss ?
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There are ways of moving a game forward without ending the day. Putting us in a less-than-optimal position because you got bored is anti-town.
But yeah, I think we're done trying to convince you of that.
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This is town self-sabotaging, nothing else. If whoever is responsible for ash's death was town, it'd be like faust didn't even need to include scum in the game.
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That's a statement that is made as if it were a counterpoint to a point, except that it's not related to the point.
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That's a statement that is made as if it were a counterpoint to a point, except that it's not related to the point.
Which statement ?
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I had discussed as much as I wanted to.
Indeed, and what else matters after all, thatn what YOU want to discuss ?
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I had discussed as much as I wanted to.
Indeed, and what else matters after all, thatn what YOU want to discuss ?
You mean that by saying "I had discussed all I wanted to" to justify your hammer, you're not implying that the only relevant thing to deciding to end the day isn't the above ?
If so, rethink how you express yourself, because that is very clearly what it implies.
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I'm back to thinking you're scum anyway, you're not that obtuse. Bye.
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No, I was responding to the implication that I somehow wasn't pulling my weight as town because I didn't say a lot during the day.
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Also, don't we think that roles and alignment being independent and random is problematic with a Vig? Or did we decide that wasn't what the setup meant?
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And we were doing the mission anyway. It was going to happen; I was just getting on with it.
My plan was a low probability to have an upside, but I felt like doing something.
Why didn't you say all this stuff three hours ago?
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Why don't you claim everything anyway? You can only flip one, and you have three, so why not spill it all?
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Day 3 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (4): CheesyJelly, Teproc, Awaclus, pingpongsam
Teproc (2): gkrieg13, LaLight
Not Voting (1): Witherweaver
Proposed crew: Awaclus, gkrieg13, LaLight
Accept (1): Awaclus
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (6): Teproc, Witherweaver, pingpongsam, CheesyJelly, LaLight, gkrieg13
With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
-
"The Shepherd was the only one to come back to Serenity after Wash..." Simon pointed out, letting the word fall in the tense silence in the kitchen. They had been staying on the planet a day longer than they planned, but Wash had not shown up, and their search had been in vain.
"Is that an accusation, Simon?" The old man asked, piercing Simon with his dark eyes.
"You never told us much about you, Shepherd", Inara pointed out. "Where did you learn to fight like you do? Do they teach that in the monastery?"
"I'd rather not say."
"That is fine." Mal said. "But then we cannot have you here on the ship. Since we have no proof for any wrongdoing, we will not do you harm. But you are going to stay back, here on the planet." He then turned to his crew. "And we will leave. We have stayed here for too long already."
Witherweaver has been lynched! They were Derrial Book, the Mysterious Shepherd. They had the following power:
Manipulate
While on a mission, you may target another player, to flip their submission for the mission.
Night 3 begins and lasts 24 hours. Night actions are due before the end of the night.
THREAD LOCKED!
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That night, Mal entered Jayne's room.
"Hey there." He nodded towards him. "I think it is about time you and me had a chat."
"What about, Captain?"
"Let's see... maybe about how you spent your shore leave?"
Jayne realized what was happening. Quickly, he reached for his gun, as Mal reached for his. The shots fired simultaneously.
LaLight has been killed! They were Malcolm Reynolds, the Outlaw Captain. They had the following power:
Captain
During the day, you target any player and name one other player. The player you targeted can only target the player you named the following night (or choose to target nobody). They will be informed of this at the beginning of the night. This action fails on the player with the flavor name Inara Serra. It also fails if the player you named and the player you selected are not in the same location that night.
Any submission is only valid if placed prior to the final vote on either a successful mission proposal or a lynch.
pingpongsam has been killed! They were Jayne Cobb, the Corrupted Thug. They had the following power:
Red Herring
Target any player, and name another player. The player you targeted will appear to have targeted the named player instead of their original target. Your target's action will still affect their original target. This action cannot be detected.
Current energy level: 27
The ship usees 15 energy per night.
Vote Count 4.0
Not Voting (4): CheesyJelly, Teproc, Awaclus, gkrieg13
With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 4 ends July 28 at 3 am forum time.
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Nice. If Awaclus still wants the mission plan, we should maybe just do that and not talk about anything ? So that scum doesn't know exactly what the dynamics are for the upcoming lylo.
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I suppose there could just be no NK at this point, depending on the mission too.
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We can't do the original mission plan anymore since the situation has changed, but I'll see if I can come up with another decent mission plan with the new missions and stuff.
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Basically we're in a situation where we should normally no lynch, so if there's any worthwile mission it's porbably worth doing, unless we think scum can mess with stuff excessively.
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Well, the only mission that does anything (since we don't have contraband) gives 20 energy and the highest ranking crew member gets a 1-shot Watcher if we succeed, and we lose all contraband if we fail. It requires 3/3.
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Who should I leave out of the mission?
-
Who should I leave out of the mission?
gkrieg.
-
Who should I leave out of the mission?
gkrieg.
Why?
-
Who should I leave out of the mission?
gkrieg.
Why?
Because I think he's the most likely player to be scum. I'm not really convinced and I'm going to need to reconsider (because I haven't really recalibrated to WW being town), but that's my initial take anyway.
I assumed the main goal would be to pass the mission, and therefore to exclude scum. I guess if scum failing doesn't win them the game, it's maybe fine to not include me because I'm more useful off-mission.
-
Who should I leave out of the mission?
gkrieg.
Why?
Because I think he's the most likely player to be scum. I'm not really convinced and I'm going to need to reconsider (because I haven't really recalibrated to WW being town), but that's my initial take anyway.
I assumed the main goal would be to pass the mission, and therefore to exclude scum. I guess if scum failing doesn't win them the game, it's maybe fine to not include me because I'm more useful off-mission.
Please explain to me why scum!gkrieg would claim Inara so early? It put us in such a good position.
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Right, there was that. Well, here's my problem:
- Awaclus has that night where the mission failed and unless something really strange happened that clears him.
- You (CJ) are super townie
Which leaves me gkrieg, who I thought was scummy yesterday. I need to take another look at you, really... but while gkrieg's Inara claim was a big deal early on, I think it's a much smaller deal than the two things listed above: it's far from inconceivable for scum to just go "well as town I'd claim so let's do that" withotu realizing the position it puts them in... or actually thinking things through and realizing they'd have to claim eventually anyway and decide to do it immediately for the towncred.
-
Right, there was that. Well, here's my problem:
- Awaclus has that night where the mission failed and unless something really strange happened that clears him.
- You (CJ) are super townie
Which leaves me gkrieg, who I thought was scummy yesterday. I need to take another look at you, really... but while gkrieg's Inara claim was a big deal early on, I think it's a much smaller deal than the two things listed above: it's far from inconceivable for scum to just go "well as town I'd claim so let's do that" withotu realizing the position it puts them in... or actually thinking things through and realizing they'd have to claim eventually anyway and decide to do it immediately for the towncred.
I'm having almost the same problem but about you.
Awaclus: For all we know, something strange did happen. I feel like I've only got a fraction of an understanding of all the powers out there and I don't want to rule anything out. What if PPS was able to fail a mission as an action? That's a Jayne-y thing to do. Or Witherweaver thought that LaLight was scum, and used his success/fail reverse, but didn't want to share that.
Gkrieg: It was SO towny though. It was just so quick and benefited us so much. And wasn't anywhere near the WW lynching yesterday, along with town LaLight.
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Yeah, not being on the WW lynch is a big deal, especially given the way pps hammered.
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I don't know. Obviously the Awaclus thing isn't 100% sure either, but it feels really wrong to lynch him in the face of that... Let's see what the mission is first, it might help.
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Mod: can you clarify whether or not "If the energy pool ever drops below zero, the game ends in a mafia win" is supposed to be the only Mafia win condition?
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Oh. It's in the setup post already. Nevermind.
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Why are you asking that, Awaclus?
-
Why are you asking that, Awaclus?
Because I'm trying to come up with a plan and knowing how scum wins is pretty important for that.
-
I re-read everyone who's still alive and I have to say whoever's the last scum is playing pretty well because I couldn't detect any scumslips. I think I prefer leaving Teproc off since his power is apparently more useful that way if he's town, and also I guess gkrieg and CJ would probably agree with that because of their reads.
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If we have a role that can give us 8 or more energy, he should claim because that would be tremendously helpful.
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Well, not necessarily.
-
I should be on the mission. I give 10 extra energy.
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I should be on the mission. I give 10 extra energy.
Do you give the 10 extra energy before or after the ship uses it?
-
I should be on the mission. I give 10 extra energy.
Do you give the 10 extra energy before or after the ship uses it?
After other mission success events.
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I should be on the mission. I give 10 extra energy.
Do you give the 10 extra energy before or after the ship uses it?
After other mission success events.
So before.
-
Is there any way to verify that you have that ability?
-
If we have a role that can give us 8 or more energy, he should claim because that would be tremendously helpful.
Well... I don't exactly have that but I might be able to hel^p.
I'm Kaylee, and one of my powers is that when I'm off-mission, the ship spends 50% of the energy it normally would. We went from 55 to 27 last night, obviously because scum did something I assume so I don't actually know how it rounds down, so I don't know if I save 7 or 8 right now. I'll ask faust.
By having both me off and gkrieg on maybe we can hedge our bets enough ? THere's also something else, but I'll think about whether or not I should claim it right now.
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I think our claims confirm each other btw, because
Day 1: 25 energy
We pay 10 for the mission => 15 energy
We gain 35 from the mission succeeding => 50
We gain 10 from e using his flipped power => 60
We somehow gain 10 from somewhere (gkrieg ?) => 70
We only lose 5 thanks to my power => 65
Unless I'm missing something else than gkrieg that could have given us that extra 10. That was all night 1 btw.
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I guess I should have held off and asked gkrieg if he had used it N1, sorry. It does fit with it being added before it's spent, so there's that.
gkrieg, did you use that power N1 ?
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I guess it's just by being on mission, so we're fine actually, he had already claimed that.
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Is there any way to verify that you have that ability?
Teproc' math
Also it is a passive ability, no triggering needed.
-
Anyway, I was then on the mission D/N2 so the ship used 10, going to 55.
Wait, that doesn't make sense. gkrieg was on it too, shouldn't it have added 10 too ?
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Anyway, I was then on the mission D/N2 so the ship used 10, going to 55.
Wait, that doesn't make sense. gkrieg was on it too, shouldn't it have added 10 too ?
The mission has to succeed for mine to work.
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Who thinks it is likely that PPS would perform the kill last night?
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Anyway, I was then on the mission D/N2 so the ship used 10, going to 55.
Wait, that doesn't make sense. gkrieg was on it too, shouldn't it have added 10 too ?
The mission has to succeed for mine to work.
Well, then it's useless. I only need the energy in case the mission is a failure.
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Anyway, I was then on the mission D/N2 so the ship used 10, going to 55.
Wait, that doesn't make sense. gkrieg was on it too, shouldn't it have added 10 too ?
The mission has to succeed for mine to work.
Oh. Glad that was cleared up then.
Well, then it's useless. I only need the energy in case the mission is a failure.
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Anyway, I was then on the mission D/N2 so the ship used 10, going to 55.
Wait, that doesn't make sense. gkrieg was on it too, shouldn't it have added 10 too ?
The mission has to succeed for mine to work.
Right, ok.
55 then, we now use 15 because Wash is dead, and I'm guessing 8 (since we ended at 27, seems like that something else got 20 off), which means my power only saves 7 right now.
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Anyway, I was then on the mission D/N2 so the ship used 10, going to 55.
Wait, that doesn't make sense. gkrieg was on it too, shouldn't it have added 10 too ?
The mission has to succeed for mine to work.
Right, ok.
55 then, we now use 15 because Wash is dead, and I'm guessing 8 (since we ended at 27, seems like that something else got 20 off), which means my power only saves 7 right now.
Wait is your action one you have to choose to perform?
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Got confirmation that it is rounded down, so I only reduce energy usage by 7 right now.
PPE: No.
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I guess the above was slightly unclear: we use 8 right now, because Wash is dead (so 15) and I reduce by half rounded down => 8. As long as I'm off-mission, that is.
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Got confirmation that it is rounded down, so I only reduce energy usage by 7 right now.
PPE: No.
Ok, that checks out then.
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Anyway, I was then on the mission D/N2 so the ship used 10, going to 55.
Wait, that doesn't make sense. gkrieg was on it too, shouldn't it have added 10 too ?
The mission has to succeed for mine to work.
Well, then it's useless. I only need the energy in case the mission is a failure.
Do we need the energy because we would immediately die if the mission failed ? Or would we simply be very very low and vulnerable and it would be nive to have ?
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Would it be possible to leave two people off the mission? Might give some good POE
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Also vig would now be IC. Then the other 2 townies would just have two people to look at.
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Okay. So we can't do what I was thinking of doing, but at least I know what crew to propose then.
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Do we need the energy because we would immediately die if the mission failed ? Or would we simply be very very low and vulnerable and it would be nive to have ?
I have an ability that uses up 20 energy as a cost (that's also why we lost 20 last night) and I would have wanted to use it again but I guess I can't do that now.
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A mission card has been played:
Captain's old friend
"Everybody plays each other that's all anybody ever does. We play parts."
Cost: -
Conditions: 3/3 // 3/3
Success: 20 energy; 1-shot Watcher for highest-ranking crew member.
Failure: lose all contraband
This mission fails automatically if the player with flavor name Malcolm Reynolds is part of the crew.
Proposed crew:
Awaclus, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly
-
I see.
-
Accept
-
Alright, so. failing means we go to 19 energy, and I'm an IC. Success is obviously pretty strong... means scum has a very, very hard time killing, ever ? And we get some more time ?
<b>Accept</b>
-
Accept
-
That's M-1. Do we want to discuss more ? My inclination is no, but it's probably worth waiting for CJ to weigh in just in case.
-
We should at least talk about lynching or claiming stuff
-
Actually this is fine. Given that we have two energy-saving abilities, we might be able to find a guaranteed town victory without even having to scumhunt.
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I'm good for winning without scum hunting, but I want us to take our time.
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This mission definitely seems better than lynching. Claiming stuff, sure... I have nothing I particularly want to claim right now. I agree we should give the opportunity to CJ before hammering the mission.
-
I'm happy with this. The maths adds up and it might be a good way to lure scum. My only hesitations are that if Awaclus is scum, we're handing him the 1-shot Watcher, and we're trusting that scum!Teproc doesn't have some way of blowing up Serenity if left alone with it.
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I'm happy with this. The maths adds up and it might be a good way to lure scum. My only hesitations are that if Awaclus is scum, we're handing him the 1-shot Watcher, and we're trusting that scum!Teproc doesn't have some way of blowing up Serenity if left alone with it.
Actually, the more I think about that last point, the less comfortable I am.
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I wouldn't worry about something like that, really. It's too swingy for scum to have such an ability.
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At least you know I'm Kaylee, and Kaylee wouldn't have crazy stuff like that (unlike, say, a River). The scum faction having that would be pretty insane, but your paranoia is what makes you townie... less so since I've said it, but still.
-
I guess my point is that if anybody had an ability to let them drain energy significantly, or change how energy drain works, I would expect it to be Kaylee.
-
Though I suppose with a successful mission, we'd be up to, what, 50+ energy? And yeah, anything that lets scum deplete 50 energy is ridiculous.
-
Accept
-
49 after usage I believe.
27
+20 from the mission
+10 from gkrieg
-8 from usage (15/2 rounded up)
=49
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Day 4 Final Vote Count
Not Voting (4): CheesyJelly, Teproc, Awaclus, gkrieg13
Proposed crew: Awaclus, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly
Accept (3): Awaclus, Teproc, CheesyJelly
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (1): gkrieg13
With 4 alive, it took 3 to approve a mission.
-
The remaining crew of Serenity stared down at the bodies of their travel companions. Zoe was the first to snap out of the shock. She went through Jayne's logs and found communications with Alliance officials. However, it appeared he was not acting alone. Was someone after them? Or was there still a threat remaining within Serenity?
Awaclus, gkrieg13 and CheesyJelly embark on a mission!
Night 4 begins and lasts until Friday, 10:30 am forum time. Night actions are due within 24 hours.
THREAD LOCKED!
-
Zoe made it the highest priority to find out what happened to her husband. They reached out to a local crime lord, a guy that Mal that always insisted still owed him a favor - even if he used to add "it would be best if he never saw my face again". In their depair, they tried to contact him.
Shortly after some failed attempts, Inara received a message from a loyal client, informing her that Serenity's presence had been brought to the Alliance's attention. They were forced to leave in a hurry.
The mission fails!
Current energy level: 19
The ship uses 15 energy each night.
Vote Count 5.0
Not Voting (4): CheesyJelly, Teproc, Awaclus, gkrieg13
With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch or to approve a mission. Day 5 ends July 29 at 11 am forum time.
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So Teproc is now an IC.
-
So Teproc is now an IC.
Agreed. We should move Teproc to Rank 1, I think.
-
Ya. CJ seems like the scum.
-
I have a 1-person mission that costs 5 energy, gives 25 energy plus a Jailkeeper shot to the guy who went on it, and does nothing if it fails. I think we could send gkrieg — scum!CJ can't kill and scum!gkrieg can't fail the mission without outing themselves, respectively.
-
gives 25 energy plus a Jailkeeper shot to the guy who went on it
If it's a success, I mean.
-
Ya. CJ seems like the scum.
I wish I could blame you for thinking this, but I can't. You and Awaclus both have evidence suggesting that you could be town, whereas I don't.
I'm going into a period of LA for the next 24+ hours, as I'm planning (and hopefully enacting) a proposal to my girlfriend. I'll do my best to participate, but we're not pushed for time either. I think the best thing any of us can do right now is go back, do a careful read of the game and report back with thoughts. I'll do this if I have time, otherwise I might get round to it on Sunday.
-
I have a 1-person mission that costs 5 energy, gives 25 energy plus a Jailkeeper shot to the guy who went on it, and does nothing if it fails. I think we could send gkrieg — scum!CJ can't kill and scum!gkrieg can't fail the mission without outing themselves, respectively.
This is fine, except why on earth wouldn't you send Teproc?
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I would gladly go on the mission. Further POE and lots of energy is good.
-
So Teproc is now an IC.
Agreed. We should move Teproc to Rank 1, I think.
Well, I'm opposed to this for a bunch of reasons:
1) I know I'm town for sure, so me having it is just as good as Teproc having it (plus I guess there's a small chance that Teproc is scum somehow but I don't really think that he is).
2) I know what my abilities are, and I think it's better for the captain to be someone who knows what my abilities are because that way I can come up with better plans — actually I believe I should be able to figure out a forced win given enough time. Although Teproc could possibly do the same depending on his remaining ability and what missions we draw.
3) This is the thing that worries me the most. If we start voting around, scum might be able to hammer.
-
I have a 1-person mission that costs 5 energy, gives 25 energy plus a Jailkeeper shot to the guy who went on it, and does nothing if it fails. I think we could send gkrieg — scum!CJ can't kill and scum!gkrieg can't fail the mission without outing themselves, respectively.
This is fine, except why on earth wouldn't you send Teproc?
Because Teproc is more useful off the mission, gkrieg is more useful on the mission, and scum could kill freely without outing themselves if it's one of the ICs on the mission.
-
What does jailkeeper shot do? If it kills, and gkrieg is scum, we're handing him the game.
I would be more comfortable with Teproc as Captain, and as long as nobody takes it to L-1 there's no danger of a hammer.
-
And if Teproc is on the mission it will definitely succeed, so we'll get more energy than Teproc saves by being on Serenity. I know you want to defend your captaincy, Awaclus, but it is not in town's best interests.
-
What does jailkeeper shot do? If it kills, and gkrieg is scum, we're handing him the game.
I would be more comfortable with Teproc as Captain, and as long as nobody takes it to L-1 there's no danger of a hammer.
However, we can only cast one vote without taking it to L-1. Is that enough to make Teproc the captain? i.e. is Teproc currently rank 2?
-
What does jailkeeper shot do? If it kills, and gkrieg is scum, we're handing him the game.
You target someone and then that person is doctored and roleblocked for the night.
-
And if Teproc is on the mission it will definitely succeed, so we'll get more energy than Teproc saves by being on Serenity. I know you want to defend your captaincy, Awaclus, but it is not in town's best interests.
We don't care how much energy we save if gkrieg outs himself by failing the mission. And I am defending my captaincy because it is in town's best interests.
-
And if Teproc is on the mission it will definitely succeed, so we'll get more energy than Teproc saves by being on Serenity. I know you want to defend your captaincy, Awaclus, but it is not in town's best interests.
We don't care how much energy we save if gkrieg outs himself by failing the mission. And I am defending my captaincy because it is in town's best interests.
Obviously scum!gkrieg would not do this.
-
And if Teproc is on the mission it will definitely succeed, so we'll get more energy than Teproc saves by being on Serenity. I know you want to defend your captaincy, Awaclus, but it is not in town's best interests.
We don't care how much energy we save if gkrieg outs himself by failing the mission. And I am defending my captaincy because it is in town's best interests.
Obviously scum!gkrieg would not do this.
Exactly, so we would get the energy either way. It seems like there isn't a down side.
-
And if Teproc is on the mission it will definitely succeed, so we'll get more energy than Teproc saves by being on Serenity. I know you want to defend your captaincy, Awaclus, but it is not in town's best interests.
We don't care how much energy we save if gkrieg outs himself by failing the mission. And I am defending my captaincy because it is in town's best interests.
Obviously scum!gkrieg would not do this.
Yeah and that's why we're sending gkrieg. Town!gkrieg submitting success is better than town!Teproc submitting success, scum!gkrieg submitting success is probably better than town!Teproc submitting success, and scum!gkrieg submitting failure is better than town!Teproc submitting success.
-
No wait, scum!gkrieg being on the mission at all is super better because that way he can't perform the kill.
-
Actually either alignment!gkrieg being on the mission at all is super better because if gkrieg is on the mission, scum!CheesyJelly can't perform the kill either or otherwise he outs himself. Which is what I said earlier and which is why I proposed this in the first place.
-
I'm rank 4, so we can't make me captain. Also I don't really think we particularly should anyway.
What worries me here is that scum chose to put themselves in this situation, so they've got to have something under their sleeve.
I like Awaclus's plan. It also lets me put off taking the time to do the work in this game, which is nice. But mostly Awaclus laid it out... I'm not even too worried about scum having something sneaky to do there, because I very much doubt it would make us lose on the spot.
-
Also Awaclus, thoughts on massclaiming ? Or at least making CJ and gkrig claim ? I guess we can do it tomorrow.
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Also Awaclus, thoughts on massclaiming ? Or at least making CJ and gkrig claim ? I guess we can do it tomorrow.
Well, I'm not strongly opposed to having CJ and gkrieg claim, but I think it can wait until we actually need that information, which is not the case today. I probably won't want to claim my own abilities ever, although I'm not sure how much (if at all) it would hurt if I did.
-
Also Awaclus, thoughts on massclaiming ? Or at least making CJ and gkrig claim ? I guess we can do it tomorrow.
Well, I'm not strongly opposed to having CJ and gkrieg claim, but I think it can wait until we actually need that information, which is not the case today. I probably won't want to claim my own abilities ever, although I'm not sure how much (if at all) it would hurt if I did.
I also don't want you to claim your last ability unless it's something that we should take into account when coming up with these mission plans AND it doesn't matter if scum knows about it.
-
Ok.
-
Also Awaclus, thoughts on massclaiming ? Or at least making CJ and gkrig claim ? I guess we can do it tomorrow.
Do you consider Awaclus an IC or something?
-
A mission card has been played:
Rogue Agent
"My food is problematic."
Cost: 5 points energy
Conditions: 1/1 // 1/1
Success: 25 points energy, the mission player receives a Jailkeeper shot.
Special success (River): River receives a Vigilante shot.
Failure: -
Proposed crew:
gkrieg13
-
accept
-
Also Awaclus, thoughts on massclaiming ? Or at least making CJ and gkrig claim ? I guess we can do it tomorrow.
Do you consider Awaclus an IC or something?
Do you not consider me an IC?
-
Accept
-
Also Awaclus, thoughts on massclaiming ? Or at least making CJ and gkrig claim ? I guess we can do it tomorrow.
Do you consider Awaclus an IC or something?
Do you not consider me an IC?
Well, if Teproc is IC, then I have to believe that it is either you or CJ, and I lean toward CJ, but I'm not discounting you being scum.
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So I forgot that awaclus is an IC from the previous day.
So, WW had an ability to flip the submission for a mission. But he said that he didn't use it, which means that he wasn't the reason the mission failed.
-
So I mean right now, if we believe that nothing messed with mission submissions, Awaclus is an IC, and Teproc is also IC.
So I know CJ is scum.
We also know that the Vig is the reason for a scum death, so they should also be an IC. Considering that it isn't Teproc probably (because he was the one that proposed that the vig claim, then that should make the vig 100% IC in my eyes.
So I propose that the vig claim, then just lynch the non-vig.
Actually, I think I support a massclaim now.
-
Oh hey, we are all in Europe now!
-
So I propose that the vig claim, then just lynch the non-vig.
Actually, I think I support a massclaim now.
What do you expect is going to happen? Teproc has made it clear he's not going to claim vig, I have made it clear I'm not going to claim vig, and you're supposed to know CheesyJelly is not going to claim vig either.
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Ok then. I just wanted to know which of you/CJ is the vig. Because there is a possibility that CJ is, and that would change my thoughts on the mission and everything.
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reject until this is cleared up.
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Ok then. I just wanted to know which of you/CJ is the vig. Because there is a possibility that CJ is, and that would change my thoughts on the mission and everything.
Well, it's not me.
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If it is CJ, then that changes a lot about the mission for me.
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If it is CJ, then that changes a lot about the mission for me.
What does it change about it? Just go on it and submit success.
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If it is CJ, then that changes a lot about the mission for me.
What does it change about it? Just go on it and submit success.
Because it means that scum definitely has something that messes with mission submissions. The vig is definitely an IC
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Ok now I really want to hear what CJ has to say. Just looking at Awaclus, he is looking more and more like he did in Less Mafia.
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Prod: CheesyJelly
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Ok now I really want to hear what CJ has to say. Just looking at Awaclus, he is looking more and more like he did in Less Mafia.
Because it's a small game with an invented setup.
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Ok now I really want to hear what CJ has to say. Just looking at Awaclus, he is looking more and more like he did in Less Mafia.
Because it's a small game with an invented setup.
This is a scummy answer.
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Ok now I really want to hear what CJ has to say. Just looking at Awaclus, he is looking more and more like he did in Less Mafia.
Because it's a small game with an invented setup.
This is a scummy answer.
Telling the truth is scummy?
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Where is everyone?
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Where is everyone?
Well, I'm in Prague
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Where is everyone?
Accept
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Where is everyone?
Accept
Do you not have any of the concerns that I do? Knowing if CJ is the vig seems pretty important, because then that means that Awaclus might be scum, which means that passing the mission might lose the game for us because Awaclus is able to use his power that drains 20 energy. We still don't know what that drain 20 energy power is.
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Where is everyone?
Accept
Do you not have any of the concerns that I do? Knowing if CJ is the vig seems pretty important, because then that means that Awaclus might be scum, which means that passing the mission might lose the game for us because Awaclus is able to use his power that drains 20 energy. We still don't know what that drain 20 energy power is.
I don't think that's a concern really because I could have just used the power last night if I wanted town to lose.
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Sorry folks. Like I said, I was VLA over the weekend because I was proposing to my girlfriend. Catching up now.
I'm not the vig. You all know which character I am by now, which should tell you enough about abilities, and why it's better for me to be secretive about the details.
- We should be really wary about taking anything for granted with this set-up. Nobody gets IC status in my book. That said...
- I think it is highly likely that Teproc is town. I highly doubt scum!Teproc would have a way of forcing a fail result there. But we have to consider it a possibility.
- I would be willing to treat Awaclus as town, but his play style is becoming a lot scummier, and I believe that I am being scapegoated. WW was not playing in a coherent or pro-town way, and I think there's every chance that LL's submission was flipped. Or that PPS had some way of forcing a fail. I am very uncomfortable with my biggest scum read being in the captain seat.
- Of course, gkrieg being scum fits the data too, here. That's the only thing stopping me from starting voting. But if you are scum, gkrieg, well played because I cannot tell.
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So that means that either LaLight was the vig, which means that he probably should have flipped something else, or that Teproc is, which doesn't help too much.
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I think I also want Awaclus not in the Captain position. It would be better if Teproc were there I think.
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So that means that either LaLight was the vig, which means that he probably should have flipped something else, or that Teproc is, which doesn't help too much.
My theory: LaLight was the vig and he flipped the power that he thought would best explain his main way of interacting with people and redirecting abilities. I think we all believed him, though, and I can't see a way that it could help us scumhunt, even if he breadcrumbed stuff earlier in the game.
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That ruined my whole plan though. I was hoping we would have two ICs, and I would know if Awaclus was scum or not. I'm a little weary about the mission.
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OR LaLight wasn't a vig, but had some sort of mutual-takedown power. That's very Mal Reynolds.
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I think I also want Awaclus not in the Captain position. It would be better if Teproc were there I think.
I don't know which one out of you and CheesyJelly is town but whoever it is should seriously start questioning why he's agreeing with the guy who's almost certainly scum.
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I think I also want Awaclus not in the Captain position. It would be better if Teproc were there I think.
I don't know which one out of you and CheesyJelly is town but whoever it is should seriously start questioning why he's agreeing with the guy who's almost certainly scum.
Or you could be scum and we are agreeing because we are town.
It would be nice if you claimed your ability that takes up 20 energy, seeing as you can't use it again. I'm worried that you use it and that lets you win as mafia.
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Either way, Teproc can't be the captain because he's not at rank 2 right now. At best, we could cast exactly one vote for the guy who's rank #3 today, then we could cast exactly one vote for the guy who's rank #2 D6, and then we could cast exactly one vote for me D7 and then D8 Teproc would be the captain.
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It would be nice if you claimed your ability that takes up 20 energy, seeing as you can't use it again. I'm worried that you use it and that lets you win as mafia.
I'm not going to claim any of my abilities, as I already said. Also, as I also already said, if I was mafia, I could have used the ability last night and town would have lost.
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Either way, Teproc can't be the captain because he's not at rank 2 right now. At best, we could cast exactly one vote for the guy who's rank #3 today, then we could cast exactly one vote for the guy who's rank #2 D6, and then we could cast exactly one vote for me D7 and then D8 Teproc would be the captain.
I think we can do better than that. If we don2 votes on the people in first and second, then do the same tomorrow, Teproc would be the captain.
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It would be nice if you claimed your ability that takes up 20 energy, seeing as you can't use it again. I'm worried that you use it and that lets you win as mafia.
I'm not going to claim any of my abilities, as I already said. Also, as I also already said, if I was mafia, I could have used the ability last night and town would have lost.
Refusing to claim your abilities seems scummy right now. Maybe I need to sleep on it.
I'm really just worried that you are the last scum again, and you have a plan to lose it all.
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Ya. CJ seems like the scum.
I wish I could blame you for thinking this, but I can't. You and Awaclus both have evidence suggesting that you could be town, whereas I don't.
I'm going into a period of LA for the next 24+ hours, as I'm planning (and hopefully enacting) a proposal to my girlfriend. I'll do my best to participate, but we're not pushed for time either. I think the best thing any of us can do right now is go back, do a careful read of the game and report back with thoughts. I'll do this if I have time, otherwise I might get round to it on Sunday.
Uh, totally missed this... how'd it go?
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Either way, Teproc can't be the captain because he's not at rank 2 right now. At best, we could cast exactly one vote for the guy who's rank #3 today, then we could cast exactly one vote for the guy who's rank #2 D6, and then we could cast exactly one vote for me D7 and then D8 Teproc would be the captain.
I think we can do better than that. If we don2 votes on the people in first and second, then do the same tomorrow, Teproc would be the captain.
We can't cast more than one vote because scum will hammer if we do.
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I would actually rather Teproc go on the mission. I think there are some pretty good reasons for this. I can explain them, but it would take some claiming on my part.
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Either way, Teproc can't be the captain because he's not at rank 2 right now. At best, we could cast exactly one vote for the guy who's rank #3 today, then we could cast exactly one vote for the guy who's rank #2 D6, and then we could cast exactly one vote for me D7 and then D8 Teproc would be the captain.
I think we can do better than that. If we don2 votes on the people in first and second, then do the same tomorrow, Teproc would be the captain.
We can't cast more than one vote because scum will hammer if we do.
Oh ya.
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Refusing to claim your abilities seems scummy right now.
I'm an IC. There's literally no reason why I should have to tell scum my abilities.
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Either way, Teproc can't be the captain because he's not at rank 2 right now. At best, we could cast exactly one vote for the guy who's rank #3 today, then we could cast exactly one vote for the guy who's rank #2 D6, and then we could cast exactly one vote for me D7 and then D8 Teproc would be the captain.
Convenient that the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY you can see to do this keeps you as captain for 3 days. When we could make sure you wouldn't be captain tomorrow. We'd have to be very careful, but it's way more feasible than the nonsense above.
I think I also want Awaclus not in the Captain position. It would be better if Teproc were there I think.
I don't know which one out of you and CheesyJelly is town but whoever it is should seriously start questioning why he's agreeing with the guy who's almost certainly scum.
I've outlined my reasoning. If you have anything to take issue with, I'd like to hear it, but "STOP AGREEING ON STUFF!" isn't very helpful right now.
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Refusing to claim your abilities seems scummy right now.
I'm an IC. There's literally no reason why I should have to tell scum my abilities.
You are not an IC, and trying to pretend you are one is so scummy.
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Ya. CJ seems like the scum.
I wish I could blame you for thinking this, but I can't. You and Awaclus both have evidence suggesting that you could be town, whereas I don't.
I'm going into a period of LA for the next 24+ hours, as I'm planning (and hopefully enacting) a proposal to my girlfriend. I'll do my best to participate, but we're not pushed for time either. I think the best thing any of us can do right now is go back, do a careful read of the game and report back with thoughts. I'll do this if I have time, otherwise I might get round to it on Sunday.
Uh, totally missed this... how'd it go?
SHE SAID YES! This weekend has been a blur, but I'm over the moon. She seems happy too, which is promising! I really am sorry for disappearing for a couple of days with very little notice, but it's all been a bit stressful!
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Refusing to claim your abilities seems scummy right now.
I'm an IC. There's literally no reason why I should have to tell scum my abilities.
You are not an IC, and trying to pretend you are one is so scummy.
This
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Ya. CJ seems like the scum.
I wish I could blame you for thinking this, but I can't. You and Awaclus both have evidence suggesting that you could be town, whereas I don't.
I'm going into a period of LA for the next 24+ hours, as I'm planning (and hopefully enacting) a proposal to my girlfriend. I'll do my best to participate, but we're not pushed for time either. I think the best thing any of us can do right now is go back, do a careful read of the game and report back with thoughts. I'll do this if I have time, otherwise I might get round to it on Sunday.
Uh, totally missed this... how'd it go?
SHE SAID YES! This weekend has been a blur, but I'm over the moon. She seems happy too, which is promising! I really am sorry for disappearing for a couple of days with very little notice, but it's all been a bit stressful!
That's awesome! I totally understand you being gone now, and I'm sorry that I was irritated! I somehow completely missed that post where you said you were going to be gone!
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Convenient that the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY you can see to do this keeps you as captain for 3 days. When we could make sure you wouldn't be captain tomorrow.
However, we can't do that because you and gkrieg aren't ICs so we're not letting either of you be the captain.
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I've outlined my reasoning. If you have anything to take issue with, I'd like to hear it, but "STOP AGREEING ON STUFF!" isn't very helpful right now.
It's not about stopping agreeing on stuff, it's about stopping agreeing on stuff with the last remaining scum. Both you and gkrieg keep saying things that are ridiculously anti-town and it's just baffling to me why the one who's town would do it.
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Refusing to claim your abilities seems scummy right now.
I'm an IC. There's literally no reason why I should have to tell scum my abilities.
You are not an IC, and trying to pretend you are one is so scummy.
I am an IC until you can explain why we're still playing this game even though I demonstrably have an ability that could have guaranteed a scum victory last night.
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I've outlined my reasoning. If you have anything to take issue with, I'd like to hear it, but "STOP AGREEING ON STUFF!" isn't very helpful right now.
It's not about stopping agreeing on stuff, it's about stopping agreeing on stuff with the last remaining scum. Both you and gkrieg keep saying things that are ridiculously anti-town and it's just baffling to me why the one who's town would do it.
You've not actually outlined why anything I've said is anti-town. I'm waiting to hear actual arguments. I want to be convinced.
Refusing to claim your abilities seems scummy right now.
I'm an IC. There's literally no reason why I should have to tell scum my abilities.
You are not an IC, and trying to pretend you are one is so scummy.
I am an IC until you can explain why we're still playing this game even though I demonstrably have an ability that could have guaranteed a scum victory last night.
Your ability uses 20 energy, yes? We're on 27 energy. What are you talking about?
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Sorry. Looked at energy for the wrong day. Okay, I understand your argument now. Need to look it over.
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You've not actually outlined why anything I've said is anti-town. I'm waiting to hear actual arguments. I want to be convinced.
I have actually.
Well, I'm opposed to this for a bunch of reasons:
1) I know I'm town for sure, so me having it is just as good as Teproc having it (plus I guess there's a small chance that Teproc is scum somehow but I don't really think that he is).
2) I know what my abilities are, and I think it's better for the captain to be someone who knows what my abilities are because that way I can come up with better plans — actually I believe I should be able to figure out a forced win given enough time. Although Teproc could possibly do the same depending on his remaining ability and what missions we draw.
3) This is the thing that worries me the most. If we start voting around, scum might be able to hammer.
This is fine, except why on earth wouldn't you send Teproc?
Because Teproc is more useful off the mission, gkrieg is more useful on the mission, and scum could kill freely without outing themselves if it's one of the ICs on the mission.
I would be more comfortable with Teproc as Captain, and as long as nobody takes it to L-1 there's no danger of a hammer.
However, we can only cast one vote without taking it to L-1.
Then gkrieg came and made the exact same arguments I already debunked.
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I really don't know what to make of this 20 energy ability. I believe you have it, but I have no idea what it does, or whether you could use it more than once, or if you can use it on a mission. You could easily lie about the details. I'd have an easier time trusting you if it weren't for the IC stuff...
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So Teproc is now an IC.
Agreed. We should move Teproc to Rank 1, I think.
Well, I'm opposed to this for a bunch of reasons:
1) I know I'm town for sure, so me having it is just as good as Teproc having it (plus I guess there's a small chance that Teproc is scum somehow but I don't really think that he is).
2) I know what my abilities are, and I think it's better for the captain to be someone who knows what my abilities are because that way I can come up with better plans — actually I believe I should be able to figure out a forced win given enough time. Although Teproc could possibly do the same depending on his remaining ability and what missions we draw.
3) This is the thing that worries me the most. If we start voting around, scum might be able to hammer.
1) Good for you. "It's fine because I'm town" is less than helpful.
2) Very vague and not very helpful. What kind of forced win? What would that look like? We have to find scum to win, don't we? This feels like you're trying to draw Teproc into claiming.
3) It would only take 1 vote stop you from being captain. Nowhere near hammer territory. Feels like you're using scare tactics to hold on to your advantage.
All of the above only work as arguments if you assume you are town. I do not assume you are town.
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I really don't know what to make of this 20 energy ability. I believe you have it, but I have no idea what it does, or whether you could use it more than once, or if you can use it on a mission. You could easily lie about the details. I'd have an easier time trusting you if it weren't for the IC stuff...
Well, I guess we'll just have to muster up enough energy that I can use it again while I'm on a mission to prove that I can do that, because I totally can.
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2) Very vague and not very helpful. What kind of forced win? What would that look like? We have to find scum to win, don't we?
As I've been saying for two days, we don't need to find scum. There are ways to guarantee a town win without any further scumhunting.
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This feels like you're trying to draw Teproc into claiming.
Yeah and I guess the post where I told Teproc that I specifically want him to not claim also supports that narrative, right?
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For reference:
Also Awaclus, thoughts on massclaiming ? Or at least making CJ and gkrig claim ? I guess we can do it tomorrow.
Well, I'm not strongly opposed to having CJ and gkrieg claim, but I think it can wait until we actually need that information, which is not the case today. I probably won't want to claim my own abilities ever, although I'm not sure how much (if at all) it would hurt if I did.
I also don't want you to claim your last ability unless it's something that we should take into account when coming up with these mission plans AND it doesn't matter if scum knows about it.
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3) It would only take 1 vote stop you from being captain. Nowhere near hammer territory. Feels like you're using scare tactics to hold on to your advantage.
However, stopping me from being captain and letting you or gkrieg be captain instead is objectively bad for town.
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2) Very vague and not very helpful. What kind of forced win? What would that look like? We have to find scum to win, don't we?
As I've been saying for two days, we don't need to find scum. There are ways to guarantee a town win without any further scumhunting.
I want to believe you. It would make life easier. But you've stated it as fact without any evidence. How can we win whilst scum are still alive?
This feels like you're trying to draw Teproc into claiming.
Yeah and I guess the post where I told Teproc that I specifically want him to not claim also supports that narrative, right?
Not trying to create a narrative. I've been distracted this week, and there's every chance I missed things. Thank you for clarifying.
3) It would only take 1 vote stop you from being captain. Nowhere near hammer territory. Feels like you're using scare tactics to hold on to your advantage.
However, stopping me from being captain and letting you or gkrieg be captain instead is objectively bad for town.
To use your own argument: For me, it's better that either me or Teproc become captain because I'm 100% and 90% sure (respectively) that we are town. I cannot yet accept your case as objective fact.
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I want to believe you. It would make life easier. But you've stated it as fact without any evidence. How can we win whilst scum are still alive?
We can't, but there's at least one mission that automatically kills scum on success (it's the one whose special success (which is that it kills the entire remaining scum team) involves me, but you don't have to take my word for it — faust states in the setup post that it's possible for town to win without ever lynching someone), missions in general can give us PoE until the last scum is automatically outed, and there's also other shenanigans that I don't want to talk about more than you can already guess but let's just say the ability that costs 20 energy doesn't cost 20 energy for nothing.
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Also, I didn't intend to mock you for being VLA, I'm just pretty excited about this game right now so I easily forget that other people have other things going on in their lives.
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I want to believe you. It would make life easier. But you've stated it as fact without any evidence. How can we win whilst scum are still alive?
We can't, but there's at least one mission that automatically kills scum on success (it's the one whose special success (which is that it kills the entire remaining scum team) involves me, but you don't have to take my word for it — faust states in the setup post that it's possible for town to win without ever lynching someone), missions in general can give us PoE until the last scum is automatically outed, and there's also other shenanigans that I don't want to talk about more than you can already guess but let's just say the ability that costs 20 energy doesn't cost 20 energy for nothing.
Ah I see. I think I had the wrong definition of 'scumhunting', sorry. I assumed that meant finding and killing scum. I'm guessing it means specifically trying to find them out from scummy things they say. And faust's post was based on the set-up. For example, River can never get that vig power now, so it wasn't necessarily obvious from that alone. I'm slightly worried that you're trying to encourage us to NOT look for scum for scummy reasons, but I better understand you now, thank you.
I'm gonna call it a night now - my brain is full and I would like Teproc to weigh in on stuff before pushing forward.
PPE: I didn't feel mocked! I was genuinely sorry for missing stuff. It's much cleaner if we don't have to go back and recap/restate everything. I'm excited too, which is why I'm starting to get fighty!
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OR LaLight wasn't a vig, but had some sort of mutual-takedown power. That's very Mal Reynolds.
01
This. I didn't want to comment on that in case CJ claimed vig, but I don't think we have a vig. I don't know if it's exatly that (Vengeful) and what caused the death that other night, but I don't think vig is it, or if so it was one-shot. Certainly I didn't think there was going to be a clearing claim coming today.
Awaclus, you still might claim some stuff at lylo. Having a JK makes things slightly different, but still. I would like to know what that 20-energy ability is, because believing it exists is a relatively important thing here.
But that can be tomorrow, or even later. There is, admittedly, a risk in going into night here. To gkrieg/CJ: Awaclus is going to be the captain, no matter what. Debate all you want on what constitutes ICness, but we certainly can't have any of you two be captain, and it'll take forever to make me captain. So there. Now, unless you have some stuff to claim, I think we should go into night. There'sa small chance we lose by doing this, yes, and then I'll feel really silly and we'll have messed up, but I think there's enough value there (the JK has a good chance can give us an extra lynch).
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accept
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Day 5 Final Vote Count
Not Voting (4): CheesyJelly, Teproc, Awaclus, gkrieg13
Proposed crew: gkrieg
Accept (3): gkrieg13, Awaclus, Teproc
Refuse (0)
With 4 alive, it took 3 to approve a mission.
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While fleeing from the planet, one member of the crew secretly undocked one of the shuttles.
gkrieg13 embarks on a mission!
Night 5 begins and lasts until Tuesday, July 25 at 3:30 am forum time. Night actions are due before that.
THREAD LOCKED!
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The crew found out that Inara and her shuttle were missing soon afterwards. Simon was sure she ran after seeing Serenity's crew completely dimished, and Zoe agreed. They met up with Kaylee in the engine room.
"Oh, Inara? No, she told me last night she wanted to do some investigating back on the planet." She looked at Zoe. "She knew you wouldn't approve. She asked me not to tell you."
That's when they heard the shuttle docking again. Inara stepped out, a large cut going across her right cheek, bleeding.
"Oh god, are you okay?" Kaylee ran towards her. They carried her to the infirmary. "I... learned something..." She said weakly.
The mission was a success!
Current energy level: 41
The ship uses 15 energy per night.
Vote Count 6.0
Not Voting (4): CheesyJelly, Teproc, Awaclus, gkrieg13
With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch or the approve a mission. Day 6 lasts until August 1, 4:30 am forum time.
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Anybody learn anything? We should massclaim eventually.
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I'm slightly surprised that Teproc isn't dead.
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Also we can probably do some clever things with my JK shot to solve who is the scum.
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I'm slightly surprised that Teproc isn't dead.
You shouldn't be. Shooting would have made you an IC, and if CJ is scum (or even Awaclus for that matter), you're the one they want to mislynch. And from my PoV of course, it's possible that you're scum and just couldn't shoot.
Anyway, we've got time and security now.
Interesting that Inara is hurt in the flavour.
Jailkeepeer, right. I don't know why, I thought Awaclus was getting it, not you... that's not great actually. I guess it was worth it for the energy, maybe.
Awaclus, have you found your mission ?
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Yeah, I just drew the scum-killing mission I mentioned yesterday. It requires 3/3, costs 15 energy and the failure is that the highest ranking town member (i.e. me) dies. I think if we send me, Teproc and gkrieg, we should win for sure — if the mission fails, you have 2 ICs at LyLo, and if it succeeds, we win anyway. Anyone have any thoughts before I submit it?
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Yeah, I just drew the scum-killing mission I mentioned yesterday. It requires 3/3, costs 15 energy and the failure is that the highest ranking town member (i.e. me) dies. I think if we send me, Teproc and gkrieg, we should win for sure — if the mission fails, you have 2 ICs at LyLo, and if it succeeds, we win anyway. Anyone have any thoughts before I submit it?
That's fine with me. The fact that you want to submit this mission makes me feel better about you.
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Yeah, I guess it's also noteworthy that if I was lying about being town, the failure would out myself when someone other than me would die.
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Awaclus is scum.
Y'all know by now that I'm Simon Tam the Doctor. I used my First Aid ability on Teproc last night, and I get told if it successfully stops a kill. Somebody attacked Teproc last night, and it can't have been gkrieg. Teproc, I assume you didn't try to kill yourself?
I know you just have my word for this, but add the fact that Awaclus has been lying about being IC and lying about being able to win the game before with his 20 energy ability (Setup: "Some night actions may manipulate the ship's energy pool. Any such action can only be successful if the energy pool has at least the required amount at the time the action is taken; they cannot cause the energy level to drop below zero."). My guess is that Zoey has ways of manipulating rank, and Awaclus is going to use the scum-hunting mission to kill town whilst looking townie.
Vote: Awaclus
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I know you just have my word for this, but add the fact that Awaclus has been lying about being IC and lying about being able to win the game before with his 20 energy ability (Setup: "Some night actions may manipulate the ship's energy pool. Any such action can only be successful if the energy pool has at least the required amount at the time the action is taken; they cannot cause the energy level to drop below zero."). My guess is that Zoey has ways of manipulating rank, and Awaclus is going to use the scum-hunting mission to kill town whilst looking townie.
Also setup:
At the end of the night, events will be resolved in this order:
1. Night actions are resolved as usual. Conflicting night actions are resolved by a predetermined scheme. Specific question on night action resolution for your own night actions can be requested via QT.
2. It is determined whether the mission was a success. Success or failure events happen (depending on Mission).
3. The ship uses energy
4. Players who have been killed die.
The ability can't cause the energy level to drop below zero, but it can cause it to drop below 7, and after that, the ship can cause it to drop below 0.
Also I don't have a way to manipulate rank. Now that I've claimed this, there's no way for me to kill town whilst looking townie.
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Also, I obviously didn't try to kill Teproc last night. This is pretty clearly just a desperate last attempt from scum who knows he's going to lose the game no matter what. However, we should still go on the mission instead of lynching CJ here because I can afford to do that.
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I do want you to claim your 20 energy action. I also think a mass claim might be good.
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Also important to note that this ICs me.
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I do want you to claim your 20 energy action. I also think a mass claim might be good.
It's a vig. I used it on pps, but I didn't kill ashersky, as I breadcrumbed here:
I highly doubt ash was a scum NK. -- I also don't think it was a vig kill, so there's probably some other shenanigans going on.
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Then why did you want to save up for it again?
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Also does that mean that CJ didn't try to kill Teproc last night then?
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Then why did you want to save up for it again?
Originally, I wanted to kill someone so that we'd have better PoE at LyLo. I gave up on that idea when I learned about the energy saving abilities that we had, and realized we could do something better with the help of missions.
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Also does that mean that CJ didn't try to kill Teproc last night then?
Probably, as I predicted yesterday.
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I think claiming is going to be good and necessary now. My other abilities:
- A one-shot Trigger that would have caused River to kill whoever she visited that night. I did not use it before River died.
- Drain 50% of the ship's energy. I have also never used this and don't know when I would have, unless to try to stop anti-town missions/abilities that require energy?
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A mission card has been played:
Last Stand
"Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
Cost: 15 energy
Conditions: 2/2 // 3/3
Success: The lowest-ranking remaining mafia player dies.
Special success (Zoe): All remaining mafia players die.
Failure: The highest-ranking town player dies.
Proposed crew: Awaclus, gkrieg13, Teproc
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Accept
For what it's worth, my other ability was that I could use it when I was on a mission, and if exactly two people on it submitted failure, the mission would be a success instead but otherwise it would be a failure. I never used it.
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Also does that mean that CJ didn't try to kill Teproc last night then?
Let's assume I'm scum for a moment. Left alone with Awaclus and an IC, why don't I kill Teproc? I don't think anybody could have stopped me. And then unless the scum-killing mission requires 1 or 2 people, it can no longer succeed.
I really want to encourage gkrieg and Teproc to do a full re-read knowing that Awaclus is scum (or likely scum). That's what I did last night, and I was convinced before I got the result from my first aid power this morning.
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Refuse
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Let's assume I'm scum for a moment. Left alone with Awaclus and an IC, why don't I kill Teproc? I don't think anybody could have stopped me.
You don't kill Teproc because then you're left alone with yourself and two ICs at LyLo.
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Let's assume I'm scum for a moment. Left alone with Awaclus and an IC, why don't I kill Teproc? I don't think anybody could have stopped me.
You don't kill Teproc because then you're left alone with yourself and two ICs at LyLo.
YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN AN IC.
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I really want to encourage gkrieg and Teproc to do a full re-read knowing that Awaclus is scum (or likely scum). That's what I did last night, and I was convinced before I got the result from my first aid power this morning.
And then what? It doesn't matter what anyone's reads are at this point. If we go on the mission, town wins. The only way town can lose is if we mislynch today, which is what you're trying to do.
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Let's assume I'm scum for a moment. Left alone with Awaclus and an IC, why don't I kill Teproc? I don't think anybody could have stopped me.
You don't kill Teproc because then you're left alone with yourself and two ICs at LyLo.
YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN AN IC.
That's what you've been trying to tell everyone but it hasn't been super successful.
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Let's assume I'm scum for a moment. Left alone with Awaclus and an IC, why don't I kill Teproc? I don't think anybody could have stopped me.
You don't kill Teproc because then you're left alone with yourself and two ICs at LyLo.
YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN AN IC.
That's what you've been trying to tell everyone but it hasn't been super successful.
Your self-conferred IC status was from a mission failing when it apparently needed 2 fails. We've already seen that WW could flip a result. You yourself can manipulate success and failure. So there are all sorts of ways that the mission could have failed with one scum being on it. An IC is CONFIRMED to be town. You are not.
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Town would be saying "Yes, there's a slight chance I might be scum, but it's seriously unlikely." Only scum would try to persuade everybody it was a certain thing.
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For what it's worth, my other ability was that I could use it when I was on a mission, and if exactly two people on it submitted failure, the mission would be a success instead but otherwise it would be a failure. I never used it.
There's this. There's the vig shot. Have I missed one? Or are you hiding a third ability?
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Wait, what is bad about this mission? How could it fail? Even if it does, wouldn't that mean we just lynch CJ and win?
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Wait, what is bad about this mission? How could it fail? Even if it does, wouldn't that mean we just lynch CJ and win?
The bad thing is that scum is suggesting it, and therefore must have a plan.
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gkrieg, can you use your jailkeeper thing on missions? That might be useful to stop any scummy shenanigans from Awaclus.
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gkrieg, can you use your jailkeeper thing on missions? That might be useful to stop any scummy shenanigans from Awaclus.
Ya, that was my plan.
Awaclus, have you full claimed? If not, could you?
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There's this. There's the vig shot. Have I missed one? Or are you hiding a third ability?
My third one was the neighborhood QT with ashersky.
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Awaclus, have you full claimed? If not, could you?
I have fully claimed.
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The bad thing is that scum is suggesting it
Hmm, that sure sounds like you're trying to persuade everybody it is a certain thing.
Only scum would try to persuade everybody it was a certain thing
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Your self-conferred IC status was from a mission failing when it apparently needed 2 fails. We've already seen that WW could flip a result. You yourself can manipulate success and failure. So there are all sorts of ways that the mission could have failed with one scum being on it. An IC is CONFIRMED to be town. You are not.
How many sorts of ways are there? We've already seen two, neither of which was the cause for the mission's failure. And scum could have won the game by vigging someone that one night, but I didn't. And I'm the vig who killed pps. If I'm not an IC, then I don't know who is.
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CJ also has crazy scummy abilities.
accept
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vote: CJ
That way he doesn't become captain.
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Don't quite have time to figure things out right now.... looks clear cut but I need to take another look at things before doing anything irreversible.
Awaclus, what did you do on night 4 ?
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Don't quite have time to figure things out right now.... looks clear cut but I need to take another look at things before doing anything irreversible.
Awaclus, what did you do on night 4 ?
I submitted success. I didn't use any powers.
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accept
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Day 6 Final Vote Count
Awaclus (1): CheesyJelly
CheesyJelly (1): gkrieg13
Not Voting (4): CheesyJelly, Teproc, Awaclus, gkrieg13
Proposed crew: Awaclus, gkrieg13, Teproc
Accept (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, CheesyJelly
Refuse (0)
Not Voting (1): Teproc
With 4 alive, it took 3 to approve a mission.
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Uh the flavor text needs to be changed.
The mission succeeds!
CheesyJelly has been killed! They were Simon Tam, the Desperate Doctor!
Town wins!
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QTs:
Mod (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/pgF9R2vmrCW)
Mafia (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/jX7nuGiwi3X)
Speccy (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/rEfjffUCZgh8)
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So would my idea Night 2 have caught CheesyJelly?
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Phew! Well played everyone!
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Hold on. The mission's energy cost is subtracted after night actions?
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Hold on. The mission's energy cost is subtracted after night actions?
Yes; that's part of determining whether the mission was a success. After all, the mission fails if not enough energy is left.
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My QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/q6hBH7nwAjR
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booo
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So would my idea Night 2 have caught CheesyJelly?
Well, it would have caused the mission to succeed.
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Hold on. The mission's energy cost is subtracted after night actions?
Yes; that's part of determining whether the mission was a success. After all, the mission fails if not enough energy is left.
The mission isn't supposed to fail if there isn't enough energy left, it "will have the same effect as the Mission having been refused" according to the setup, so I thought it was obviously subtracted at the end of the day.
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What happened to my extra ten energy I give to the mission???
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So would my idea Night 2 have caught CheesyJelly?
Well, it would have caused the mission to succeed.
Right, so a conclusion that CheesyJelly is scum would have been reasonable (I mean we wouldn't be certain of it because there could have been other stuff.. still a good case for a lynch I think). Ultimately it would have been correct here.
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What happened to my extra ten energy I give to the mission???
Isn't extra the key word here? The mission didn't have an energy reward.
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What happened to my extra ten energy I give to the mission???
Oh, shoot... I forgot about that. Well, it does not change much (except the winning team :) )
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Haha
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What happened to my extra ten energy I give to the mission???
Isn't extra the key word here? The mission didn't have an energy reward.
No, it's extra to whatever the mission success effect is.
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ooob
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Oh what? So who won?
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ooob
So you just basically said "boob".
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Oh what? So who won?
Town won.
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Oh what? So who won?
Town won.
Poop.
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Ship energy: 41
Drain energy, -20 21 left
Mission, -15 6 left
Mission success: + 10 16 left
Ship uses energy -15: 1 left
I like that town literally wins with 1 energy.
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ooob
So you just basically said "boob".
no i complicatedly said boob you boob
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Thanks for the game Faust! It was a fun one!
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I will post more thoughts tomorrow.
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Yeah, it was definitely tons of fun. I thought it was pretty stacked against scum, but turns out it was a lot closer than I thought.
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Here's my QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/Y47phBJ6m4b
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If someone doesn't want to share their QT, please say so or PM me. Otherwise I will release them all tomorrow.
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wow, the game was indeed a very lot of fun! Thanks, faust!
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My QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/hbTLmXRNBYWC
it's the biggest QT I have ever had!
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From speccy:
#843 is the least Awaclusian post ever.
It was a little awkward, I admit, but I just didn't want scum!Teproc to know that I was scumreading him at the time so I had to come up with something.
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From speccy:
#843 is the least Awaclusian post ever.
It was a little awkward, I admit, but I just didn't want scum!Teproc to know that I was scumreading him at the time so I had to come up with something.
That awkward moment when the entire speccy are convinced you're scum because you're being helpful.
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@CJ: very well played, I am impressed!
@Awaclus, I am sorry, I was wrong about you. You continue surprising me like no one does!
@faust, any planned awesomest game on awesomest series I haven't watched yet?
Watching Firefly was my best impression of this game, it truly was :)
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Thanks, LaLight! Sorry for putting pressure on you and taking you off Rank 1! I'm very glad this game introduced someone to Firefly. You're the biggest winner in my book!
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Thanks, LaLight! Sorry for putting pressure on you and taking you off Rank 1! I'm very glad this game introduced someone to Firefly. You're the biggest winner in my book!
That was perfectly done without any bit of suspicion!
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CJ did fantastic with what he was left with. If I had not gotten vigged I think we stood a good chance of winning. When I died I was pretty certain we would not (and not because I'm so great or anything, but because of lack of maneuverability with the missions and powers as they were).
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I drank my own WIFOM. The hoodo kill we did on mission made it look like a vig must exist where I thought none did. I was wrong.
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Cool. Cool cool cool.
Time for The Flash to fill.
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Good game guys!
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Good game guys!
And everyone else too!
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Hey, we won ! We had correctly PoEd CJ (despite his great play I must say, can't trust that guy ever again), but it looks like the mission plan was riskier than we had accounted for.
Also, my use of PR was hilariously bad, I think.
Oh, and sorry WW.
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Haha ya I had done a calculation to make sure we had enough energy left, but I had fortgotten that Teprocs thing only works when he is not on the mission.
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I was going to look at things more in depth to make sure (and account for stuff like what would happen if you were scum), but, well, CJ hammered.
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Ya I had the plus that if the mission failed, I could block Awaclus because CJ would've died if Awa had been scum. Then it would've been LYLO
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Some comments:
- overall, I think things played out pretty nicely and in a balanced way. Getting the energy numbers just right was a difficult job in balancing. One thing I might change in retrospect is lower the benefit that Inara gets from being on a successful mission to maybe 5 points.
- I was very confused by the overall attitude that after the first mission, energy wouldn't matter anymore. I kind of get that town may have thought so. But for scum I specifically included a power that got stronger the more energy was available. They should have known that they can get town back into a difficult position.
- In the vein, it was kind of sad that pps threw the towel so early with no apparent reason. I guess he suspected the town PRs to be stronger than they actually were? I still don't know why he was so desperate.
- it was strange to me that scum never thought really hard about fakeclaims. That would be the first thing I'd do. I know they kind of had "vig"/"doc" ideas, but they should have realized they needed to claim 3 powers each, and it was never discussed. I think scum was too meek with claims.
- Night 3 was the most game-deciding I believe. LaLight's captaining was so crucial. If Jelly had been able to target pps, he would have blocked the vig shot and made pps lynchproof the next day in LyLo. If scum had ended up shooting Awaclus instead of LaLight (thus claiming Captain position), I think they would have stood a good chance of winning even with pps dying.
LaLight is MVP!
He saw early that Jelly was dangerous. He prevented scum's N3 plan that would have very likely given them the win. He was scary enough to make scum shy away from an almost-IC lynch.
Shoutouts to the performances of Awaclus and CheesyJelly, who would be the runners-up. Everyone played pretty well this game.
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Oh wow, thanks. That's surprising
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Oh wow, thanks. That's surprising
Not if you know what happened behind the scenes. You stopped me protecting PPS on the night that he died. We would have been nearly unstoppable then. My doctor power was the thing making people lynchproof.
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I did say a couple of times that us scum should come up with fake powers to claim, we just never did it. I think my meekness came from inexperience - I didn't quite have enough data to know what kind of powers would be possible/likely and I should be claiming.
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I was going to look at things more in depth to make sure (and account for stuff like what would happen if you were scum), but, well, CJ hammered.
I honestly thought I had the win. Faust thought it too, in my defence!
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I did say a couple of times that us scum should come up with fake powers to claim, we just never did it. I think my meekness came from inexperience - I didn't quite have enough data to know what kind of powers would be possible/likely and I should be claiming.
Yeah, it's hard to do this in your first scum game. But pingpongsam has done some good fakeclaims in the past; I expected him to push for it more strongly.
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Hey, we won ! We had correctly PoEd CJ (despite his great play I must say, can't trust that guy ever again), but it looks like the mission plan was riskier than we had accounted for.
Also, my use of PR was hilariously bad, I think.
Oh, and sorry WW.
It didn't make a lot of sense to me; it seemed so blatantly obvious that I was town, since I never play that way as scum.
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Hey, we won ! We had correctly PoEd CJ (despite his great play I must say, can't trust that guy ever again), but it looks like the mission plan was riskier than we had accounted for.
Also, my use of PR was hilariously bad, I think.
Oh, and sorry WW.
It didn't make a lot of sense to me; it seemed so blatantly obvious that I was town, since I neer play that way as scum.
I don't think of your town play as being anti-town, which I felt you were blatantly being. It didn't particularly coincide with your scum play, but since it was anti-town I figured it was just scum!you judging that the high risk of being lynched was worth it.
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Well, my plan would have worked had LaLight not messed with me. And it didn't make a lot of sense for me to inform scum about how I could catch them.
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Well, my plan would have worked had LaLight not messed with me. And it didn't make a lot of sense for me to inform scum about how I could catch them.
Yeah, I am sorry, but you looked like scum to me. I remembered being your partner at Stranger Things and saw some similarities, so I thought that would be useful to block you. If you'll see into my QT I changed my decision like million times that day
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It's alright. It always seems like my PRs never work out, though.
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And I hadn't thought everything through on Day 2, but I wanted to do something. I think it's okay to be reckless now and again. And in general it's a more town thing than scum thing.
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And I hadn't thought everything through on Day 2, but I wanted to do something. I think it's okay to be reckless now and again. And in general it's a more town thing than scum thing.
I specifically thought of ash's play in SUper Mario, which I don't think you were around for. Sometimes scum gets away with stuff like that because of the reasoning... and again, I thought your behaviour (not just the hammer) was way too anti-town to be just that. Obviously we disagree on that.
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It's also a problem I have with expecting too much from certain players, and when they don't live up to my unfair standards I incorrectly conclude that they must be scum.
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And by "too much" I guess I mean "to heavily conform to what I think is good play". But we don't agree on what good play is, which is why this fails.
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Well, yeah. I was also not being up front about any reads. CJ was my highest scum read (though it shifted to you on Day 3), but I don't think I really hinted at it anywhere.
Playing closed off as town is a bit of a risk in itself.
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It's also a problem I have with expecting too much from certain players, and when they don't live up to my unfair standards I incorrectly conclude that they must be scum.
Well, I don't think it's a problem. It's much more fair to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are acting the way they are because they're scum, not because they're bad players, and it's also beneficial for town if we can do that and everyone can live up to everyone's standards.
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It is a problem if it leads me to push mislynches.