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[EFHW]

I'm feeling mischaracterized here. You can say my specific points were wrong, but I was trying to argue against being leading, and I don't know what you mean by leading questions in particular.

My feeling about Robz is that he just repeated what others were saying without adding his own insights.  This is getting very confusing!

Why did you try to shut down duel discussion?

[EFHW]

re: speculations about what scum would or wouldn't do, this group always wants to assume best play and I just don't think you can count on that. It seems to me we've been burned a number of times by that. I don't have particulars, but this thought has often occurred to me of late.

[Robz888]

I'm feeling mischaracterized here. You can say my specific points were wrong, but I was trying to argue against being leading, and I don't know what you mean by leading questions in particular.

My feeling about Robz is that he just repeated what others were saying without adding his own insights.  This is getting very confusing!

Why did you try to shut down duel discussion?

I think my own insights are just pretty in line with other people's. I.e., Joth and Joseph are town.

[EFHW]

Remember joth vs player x where player x is town send us into night 7/3 which means a 30% chance town gets no pr and scum gets the pr info.

"Remember" always rings scum bells for me. This is true for any mislynch, regardless of duel.

[EFHW]

I'm feeling mischaracterized here. You can say my specific points were wrong, but I was trying to argue against being leading, and I don't know what you mean by leading questions in particular.

My feeling about Robz is that he just repeated what others were saying without adding his own insights.  This is getting very confusing!

Why did you try to shut down duel discussion?

I think my own insights are just pretty in line with other people's. I.e., Joth and Joseph are town.

I was more objecting to the inconsistencies in mcmc saying those things about me and DatSwan while praising your post. Your post feels null to me, not scummy in any obvious way. But are you trying to generate a perception of consensus by saying a lot of people agree with you that joth and Joseph are both town?

[Robz888]

I'm feeling mischaracterized here. You can say my specific points were wrong, but I was trying to argue against being leading, and I don't know what you mean by leading questions in particular.

My feeling about Robz is that he just repeated what others were saying without adding his own insights.  This is getting very confusing!

Why did you try to shut down duel discussion?

I think my own insights are just pretty in line with other people's. I.e., Joth and Joseph are town.

I was more objecting to the inconsistencies in mcmc saying those things about me and DatSwan while praising your post. Your post feels null to me, not scummy in any obvious way. But are you trying to generate a perception of consensus by saying a lot of people agree with you that joth and Joseph are both town?

A lot of people do agree with that. Who doesn't?

[mcmcsalot]

Remember joth vs player x where player x is town send us into night 7/3 which means a 30% chance town gets no pr and scum gets the pr info.

"Remember" always rings scum bells for me. This is true for any mislynch, regardless of duel.

Scum doesn’t have a 30% chance of getting a pr info for any mislynch regardless of duel. Specifically if we accept a duel and it results in a mislynch there is only a 70% chance of town getting a pr. Furthermore a duel with joth in it is a lynch on the other player.

I love how one post you say we shouldn’t assume best play and then the next you say my reminder that we shouldn’t accept a bad duel just because it gets us a pr is scummy.

I feel like you find my voice scummy.

[mcmcsalot]

Re the above, yes DatSwan has done that, but he always does that, right?

I guess you are right, I probably found it scummier because I had already posted most of what swan said in less words and adk had already commented on and corrected some of my analysis.

Normally I feel like swan does that before other people have done it and even if there are inconsistencies it’s net towny (most large analyzation posts have errors or omissions that the group then corrects). In this case it felt like he was late to the day, and still wanted to do that since “it’s what he does” and then ignored the prior posts.

[EFHW]

I'm feeling mischaracterized here. You can say my specific points were wrong, but I was trying to argue against being leading, and I don't know what you mean by leading questions in particular.

My feeling about Robz is that he just repeated what others were saying without adding his own insights.  This is getting very confusing!

Why did you try to shut down duel discussion?

I think my own insights are just pretty in line with other people's. I.e., Joth and Joseph are town.

I was more objecting to the inconsistencies in mcmc saying those things about me and DatSwan while praising your post. Your post feels null to me, not scummy in any obvious way. But are you trying to generate a perception of consensus by saying a lot of people agree with you that joth and Joseph are both town?

A lot of people do agree with that. Who doesn't?

DatSwan, Eddie, me. Also some people haven't stated a perspective - Awaclus, Debate. Two of the people saying they are both town are the ones in question, which is contributing to this atmosphere of apparent consensus. It is unlikely but possible that Joseph was trying to frame joth. If not, scum!joth would pretty much have to claim jk, and the real jk could have reasons for not coming forward, like I said earlier. So IC status is too much, imo.

PPE: 2

[EFHW]

Remember joth vs player x where player x is town send us into night 7/3 which means a 30% chance town gets no pr and scum gets the pr info.

"Remember" always rings scum bells for me. This is true for any mislynch, regardless of duel.

Scum doesn’t have a 30% chance of getting a pr info for any mislynch regardless of duel.

Right, my mistake. There is no pr without a duel.

I feel like you find my voice scummy.

I think that is true.

[jotheonah]

I'm beginning to think duels are bad because they give everyone, scum and town alike, an excuse to play lazy, and I am absolutely including myself in this.

[EFHW]

I'm beginning to think duels are bad because they give everyone, scum and town alike, an excuse to play lazy, and I am absolutely including myself in this.

Yeah, I came away from my "experiment" with the last duel thinking it slowed the game down too much.

[A Drowned Kernel]

The idea that scum!joseph claims a result on town!joth is nutso bonkers. Swan's big post honestly makes me think that he was the one who made the kill last night and is trying to keep other scenarios open

[jotheonah]

The idea that scum!joseph claims a result on town!joth is nutso bonkers. Swan's big post honestly makes me think that he was the one who made the kill last night and is trying to keep other scenarios open

I am also getting that vibe off of his posts but that could totally be confirmation bias.

[A Drowned Kernel]

re: speculations about what scum would or wouldn't do, this group always wants to assume best play and I just don't think you can count on that. It seems to me we've been burned a number of times by that. I don't have particulars, but this thought has often occurred to me of late.

I would say that I don't assume best play from scum but I do assume simple play. People like to come up with elaborate scenarios where scum infers X and claims Y to accomplish Z while town thinks Q, when really scum is usually just trying to keep their heads down

[Joseph2302]

The idea that scum!joseph claims a result on town!joth is nutso bonkers. Swan's big post honestly makes me think that he was the one who made the kill last night and is trying to keep other scenarios open

Agreed. This doesn't seem towny at all from DatSwan
Don't think I've ever come up with a plan this crazy and long winded, and if i were scum, I'd not have planned that joth would be alive anyway

[Joseph2302]

re: speculations about what scum would or wouldn't do, this group always wants to assume best play and I just don't think you can count on that. It seems to me we've been burned a number of times by that. I don't have particulars, but this thought has often occurred to me of late.

I would say that I don't assume best play from scum but I do assume simple play. People like to come up with elaborate scenarios where scum infers X and claims Y to accomplish Z while town thinks Q, when really scum is usually just trying to keep their heads down

Surely you've played with me enough times to know my plans are never this complex or well thought out, as town or scum? After all, i was dim enough to basically assume joth were scum from my result (as it was most likely). I should've stuck to my plan A, which was claim the non-VT result, but not name the individual

[jotheonah]

Do we wanna try vote: DatSwan?

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Datswan, though i think i am already

[Joseph2302]

Cmon guys, we can sheep the ICs

[Joseph2302]

And looks like a good JK role block last night

[Awaclus]

The idea that scum!joseph claims a result on town!joth is nutso bonkers.

It's not nutso bonkers. Worst case scenario, you out the JK who you had no idea was the JK and trade 1-for-1 with a vanilla townie, which is bad, but not terrible. Best case scenario, you out the JK who you were already suspecting might be the JK and nobody has any reason to be suspicious and you might even get town points.

[Awaclus]

That being said, Vote: DatSwan

[jotheonah]

If scum didn't have that strongman shot, I'd be more inclined to consider the gambit, since getting rid of the JK without wasting a NK might be worth it. But since they already have a way around the BP, I'm skeptical.

Here's another thing to think about. If we let a duel happen, and the PR doesn't "go to" scum, that COULD have the effect of keeping me alive, since scum strongman only goes through one layer of protection, so if they shoot me knowing a mysterious, possibly protective, PR is out there then they're taking the risk I won't die, so they might just shoot someone else.

[Joseph2302]

If scum didn't have that strongman shot, I'd be more inclined to consider the gambit, since getting rid of the JK without wasting a NK might be worth it. But since they already have a way around the BP, I'm skeptical.

Here's another thing to think about. If we let a duel happen, and the PR doesn't "go to" scum, that COULD have the effect of keeping me alive, since scum strongman only goes through one layer of protection, so if they shoot me knowing a mysterious, possibly protective, PR is out there then they're taking the risk I won't die, so they might just shoot someone else.

Unfortunately, if DatSwan is scum that means they shot you last night, and so you've used up your BP