Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Other Games => Topic started by: gman314 on April 04, 2013, 10:59:23 pm
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I'm starting to get gamedesign.boardgamestrategy.net going, and I would like to put up a page of "Recommended Games" for aspiring designers. So, what do people think are good games to put on such a list? I'm looking for a variety of themes and mechanics if possible.
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7 Wonders and Dominion are the games that really got me serious about game design. Dominion should probably already be on there, but 7 Wonders should too.
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Chess! And Puerto Rico.
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Possibly something like Fluxx, not necessarily for how good or bad it is but for demonstrating how you can have a simple set of rules but interesting emergent behaviour from interactions of components.
On a similar note, I think it's good for a game designer to be familiar with some of the "classics" like Snakes & Ladders and Monopoly, to understand what "real gamers" dislike about them and why (in particular, things like the absence of meaningful decisions, runaway leaders, long end-games and player elimination).
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I want to recommend Bang and probably some regular card games like Hearts, Spades, Crazy Eights, Poker...
Carcassonne for tile laying?
Settlers and Ticket to Ride, as two extremely popular and successful games?
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In order of increasing complexity…
Hive is a brilliant abstract that's simultaneously simple and extremely complex.
Lost Cities is a nearly themeless card game with a surprising amount of depth for a game that is so easy to learn.
Bohnanza is also simple with some very unique mechanics.
Pandemic popularized cooperative games and is definitely worth studying, I think.
Finally, I haven't played Eclipse, but just by looking at photos and videos online, I can tell the way its designed visually and functionally, is super well-thought out. It conveys complex information in a simple manner. In the hands of a lesser designer, it could have been far more fiddly than it is.
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I'm not a game designer myself, but I think Munchkin vs Gauntlet of Fools is a good example of doing something vs doing something right. They're both sort of silly lighthearted dungeon crawl games that parody DnD in some ways, while still using ideas like classes and different weapons/abilities.
Munchkin is political, can last way too long for the depth that it actually has, and can have significant down time. Gauntlet of Fools is quick, has little down time, and you can still win even if you die first!
I don't know if these two games are usually compared or if Steve Jackson and Donald X would think they're similar, but when I first read the description for GoF I was reminded of Munchkin, then when I played for the first time I was happy to see it was much better :p
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I think Munchkin vs Gauntlet of fools as good and bad ways of doing things is in the eye of the beholder.
I play both and both are different to me.
I love the political aspect of Munchkin, and the items and characters are much funnier than GoF.
However GoF is a lot simpler and often used as a gateway by me.
Different niches rather than one of them is right.
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7 Wonders and Dominion are the games that really got me serious about game design. Dominion should probably already be on there, but 7 Wonders should too.
Yeah, I think that both of those definitely belong.
Chess! And Puerto Rico.
Puerto Rico for sure, but Chess is a game that lots of people have played anyways, so I think for a 2-player pure strategy game I'll go with Lympi's suggestion: Hive.
Possibly something like Fluxx, not necessarily for how good or bad it is but for demonstrating how you can have a simple set of rules but interesting emergent behaviour from interactions of components.
On a similar note, I think it's good for a game designer to be familiar with some of the "classics" like Snakes & Ladders and Monopoly, to understand what "real gamers" dislike about them and why (in particular, things like the absence of meaningful decisions, runaway leaders, long end-games and player elimination).
I haven't played Fluxx, but I think that for a party game I'd prefer Eat Poop You Cat (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/30618/eat-poop-you-cat). For simple rules yielding emergent behaviour, I actually think a good game is Blokus (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2453/blokus). All you do is place tiles such that you touch your own only diagonally, and the rest is emergent behaviour.
Regarding "classic" games, I think I'll put a note on the list that they're good examples of games not to emulate, but I would never recommend that someone subject themselves to any of those.
I want to recommend Bang and probably some regular card games like Hearts, Spades, Crazy Eights, Poker...
Carcassonne for tile laying?
Settlers and Ticket to Ride, as two extremely popular and successful games?
Bang's a good addition and also a good example of poorly written rules. Every time I play that game I end up having a debate over the rules. I think I'll also put Hearts on as well, as a "regular" card game. Carcasonne is also a good call.
Pretty much everyone's played Settlers, so I don't feel any obligation to recommend that people play it, but Ticket to Ride I think I'll definitely put on.
In order of increasing complexity…
Hive is a brilliant abstract that's simultaneously simple and extremely complex.
Lost Cities is a nearly themeless card game with a surprising amount of depth for a game that is so easy to learn.
Bohnanza is also simple with some very unique mechanics.
Pandemic popularized cooperative games and is definitely worth studying, I think.
Finally, I haven't played Eclipse, but just by looking at photos and videos online, I can tell the way its designed visually and functionally, is super well-thought out. It conveys complex information in a simple manner. In the hands of a lesser designer, it could have been far more fiddly than it is.
Hive is a good addition, and Lost Cities I haven't played but from what I here it's also a good addition. Bohnanza and Pandemic I also agree with, and Eclipse I think I'll put on, but I'll also make note that it's a pretty heavy game. And I have to say that there's one part that's not as super-well thought out as the rest: the combat system. It's better than Risk's system, but it's pretty ridiculous and often quite frustrating.
Regarding Munchkin vs. Gauntlet of Fools, I've only played about half a game of Munchkin and haven't played GoF. However, I have to agree with Ozle, I do somewhat like the politics of Munchkin. I think for now I won't put either on the list, unless someone identifies an important game mechanic that one of them has, but the list is missing.
List so far:
Dominion
7 Wonders
Puerto Rico
Eat Poop You Cat
Blokus
Bang
Carcasonne
Ticket to Ride
Hive
Lost Cities
Bohnanza
Pandemic
Eclipse
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How about the Gipf series?
I find it amazing that there are so many possible abstract games that are still different than the ones we already know.
The beauty of each is that they're so simple yet so difficult.
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Innovation.
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I haven't played any of the Gipf games, but I'll add them anyways. I'm going to split the list into two categories, one will be a core of games that I think really belong, and the other will be all the other games listed here. However, the list as it stands is dominated by card-based games and I'd like to add some variety in that respect. Also, the game doesn't really have many economic, auction or trading games, so if you think games other than Power Grid or Chinatown belong, add them.
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MAGIC.
Seriously.
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How about Space Alert? It provides a solution to the cooperative game alpha player syndrome.
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Catan?
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for worker placement you could put Agricola or Le Havre
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Avalon
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I think Forbidden Island is a good example of thematic game with a great and simple mechanic (flooded tiles).
More than Pandemic, IMHO, but both belong.
I haven't played any of the Gipf games, but I'll add them anyways.
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