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[silverspawn]

Has this been tried before? An action card that's too strong for its cost but has -vp
f.e.

Action - Victory - ? - 5$
+3 Cards
+1 Action

Worth -2 VP
When you trash this, discard your hand

the on trash part is necessary to make the -vp a real disadvantage, otherwise you can just get rid of them in the end. you might still do that with a forge-megaturn or something, but it's much harder.

this specific card will probably not be balacned, but what about the idea?

[Awaclus]

Yes.

[silverspawn]

ah, hm, nvm then. i have actually read the guide but its a while ago, didnt remember that part

[GeoLib]

I think rinkworks makes good points, but bear in mind that his guide was written pre-DA (and therefore on-trash effects). I think this could be balanced with an on-trash effect. The ad-hocciness of "when you trash this, put it in your discard" decreases a lot now that we have fortress. Also, the point about the huge variance in total scores at the end of the game seems like an equally good argument against any dual-type victory cards. Sometimes the 2VP from Nobles make a big difference, sometimes they're irrelevant.

[LastFootnote]

I don't think it's necessarily impossible to do a good –VP hybrid card. That being said, "When you trash this, discard your hand" seems harsh. What if it gets hit by a Swindler? You just lost your next turn.

[Jimmmmm]

I don't think it's necessarily impossible to do a good –VP hybrid card. That being said, "When you trash this, discard your hand" seems harsh. What if it gets hit by a Swindler? You just lost your next turn.

"When you trash this during your turn"?

[Asper]

In case you want a version where the damage scales with how often you use it:

Action - 5$
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Each other player gets +1VP

[GendoIkari]

In case you want a version where the damage scales with how often you use it:

Action - 5$
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Each other player gets +1VP

I don't think I've see this take on it before. Dunno if this specifically is balanced, but I love the idea.

[Awaclus]

In case you want a version where the damage scales with how often you use it:

Action - 5$
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Each other player gets +1VP

If this card was implemented online, I couldn't even imagine the amount of grief a Young Witch board with Possession on page 2 would cause.

[Asper]

In case you want a version where the damage scales with how often you use it:

Action - 5$
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Each other player gets +1VP

I don't think I've see this take on it before. Dunno if this specifically is balanced, but I love the idea.

Don't make me regret i didn't save it for the Prosperity contest

[AJD]

In case you want a version where the damage scales with how often you use it:

Action - 5$
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Each other player gets +1VP

This sounds like the kind of card about which Donald might have said something like "It seemed balanced, but man people do not like handing VP tokens to their opponents."

[Gveoniz]

The best solution seems to be to cause a VP penalty to be incurred upon each USE of the card, rather than merely on the purchase of it. Then the VP penalty is directly proportional to the benefit you get from using it. In games with heavy-trashing, where the card would be used more often, the penalty is steeper. In no-trashing games, where the card would be used less often, the penalty is smaller.

It is actually already mentioned, +vp for others is the same as giving yourself -vp.

[Asper]

The best solution seems to be to cause a VP penalty to be incurred upon each USE of the card, rather than merely on the purchase of it. Then the VP penalty is directly proportional to the benefit you get from using it. In games with heavy-trashing, where the card would be used more often, the penalty is steeper. In no-trashing games, where the card would be used less often, the penalty is smaller.

It is actually already mentioned, +vp for others is the same as giving yourself -vp.

Rinkworks mentioned curse tokens, which have the same effect but introduce new game pieces.
While the outcome is the same, i don't feel bad to say my version is more elegant.

[LastFootnote]

The best solution seems to be to cause a VP penalty to be incurred upon each USE of the card, rather than merely on the purchase of it. Then the VP penalty is directly proportional to the benefit you get from using it. In games with heavy-trashing, where the card would be used more often, the penalty is steeper. In no-trashing games, where the card would be used less often, the penalty is smaller.

It is actually already mentioned, +vp for others is the same as giving yourself -vp.

Rinkworks mentioned curse tokens, which have the same effect but introduce new game pieces.
While the outcome is the same, i don't feel bad to say my version is more elegant.

It is except that it takes more tokens in multi-player games. Your card easily stacks and gives out 3 VP tokens with each play in a 4-player game. You're going to run out of tokens fast.

[silverspawn]

The best solution seems to be to cause a VP penalty to be incurred upon each USE of the card, rather than merely on the purchase of it. Then the VP penalty is directly proportional to the benefit you get from using it. In games with heavy-trashing, where the card would be used more often, the penalty is steeper. In no-trashing games, where the card would be used less often, the penalty is smaller.

It is actually already mentioned, +vp for others is the same as giving yourself -vp.

Rinkworks mentioned curse tokens, which have the same effect but introduce new game pieces.
While the outcome is the same, i don't feel bad to say my version is more elegant.

It is except that it takes more tokens in multi-player games. Your card easily stacks and gives out 3 VP tokens with each play in a 4-player game. You're going to run out of tokens fast.

then you use embargo tokens as +10 or whatever. that was never a problem, even in games with lots of tokens

[Awaclus]

The best solution seems to be to cause a VP penalty to be incurred upon each USE of the card, rather than merely on the purchase of it. Then the VP penalty is directly proportional to the benefit you get from using it. In games with heavy-trashing, where the card would be used more often, the penalty is steeper. In no-trashing games, where the card would be used less often, the penalty is smaller.

It is actually already mentioned, +vp for others is the same as giving yourself -vp.

Rinkworks mentioned curse tokens, which have the same effect but introduce new game pieces.
While the outcome is the same, i don't feel bad to say my version is more elegant.

It is except that it takes more tokens in multi-player games. Your card easily stacks and gives out 3 VP tokens with each play in a 4-player game. You're going to run out of tokens fast.

then you use embargo tokens as +10 or whatever. that was never a problem, even in games with lots of tokens

Yeah. Goons and Merchant Guild already require you to use improvised ways of keeping track of the tokens anyway, and if all kinds of tokens are being used in the game, you can always use a mobile phone or something.

[soulnet]

Yeah. Goons and Merchant Guild already require you to use improvised ways of keeping track of the tokens anyway, and if all kinds of tokens are being used in the game, you can always use a mobile phone or something.

A friend of mine reported good results using an old method for record-keeping. It is based on the interaction of graphite and a flexible surface made of processed wood.

[sudgy]

I one time was getting so many coin tokens my dad just said to stop and act like I had infinite money (there was no +buy other than contraband which I stopped playing at a certain point).

[KingZog3]

I one time was getting so many coin tokens my dad just said to stop and act like I had infinite money (there was no +buy other than contraband which I stopped playing at a certain point).

That's the best part about Merchant Guild. Use a bunch of coin tokens, buy a bunch of stuff, make more coins than you started with. It's like spending your money gets you more money.

[RTT]

I one time was getting so many coin tokens my dad just said to stop and act like I had infinite money (there was no +buy other than contraband which I stopped playing at a certain point).

haw did you get that many coin tokens ? with KC + Baker or what because with merchant Guild you have a +buy card.

[sudgy]

I one time was getting so many coin tokens my dad just said to stop and act like I had infinite money (there was no +buy other than contraband which I stopped playing at a certain point).

haw did you get that many coin tokens ? with KC + Baker or what because with merchant Guild you have a +buy card.

Plaza, actually.  I had other money as well, which could pay for what I wanted anyway, but in case I didn't draw my deck (which never happened), I had more than enough coin tokens.

[ChocophileBenj]

It's fun, because I just thought of another card that costs $5 and that is "+3 cards, +1 action, interactive drawback", and I forgot the existence of this topic ^^ :

-Insert name here- action, $5
+3 cards, +1 action
The player to your left names an Action card. When you play a copy of that card this turn, trash it.

At first, I thought of the opponent naming a card only the first time you played it this turn, but then it might have been too strong to some megaturn-strategy (avoid playing the named card, and at the last turn unleash everything as usual)

To come back to main topic : I thought giving VPs to opponents (or, equally, losing VPs yourself) was a bad idea as DXV said  it, but because you can do pretty everything with fan cards, just making sure it is balanced/fair/etc..., do you think this card is OK ?
I personally don't know it... either one people buy it, take advantage of it 5 or 6 times and then starts thinking he is giving a Province-like to his opponent. But OTOH he may gain more provinces by himself. Interesting if it was play-tested, but DXV decided not to sort an official card.

(BTW, don't beat around the bush : negative tokens are far more obvious than positive ones, and if you have one positive and one negative token just discard both of them)