Rest of my day 1 re-read:
I hate the wagon on Glooble, shame on all of you. For one thing, I just don't like to lynch new and returning players Day 1 unless there's a good reason (sends the wrong message!). But anyway it makes perfect sense for Glooble, who doesn't know ash plans are a typical thing, to really focus on this, as any alignment.
Alright, that’s fair.
vote: mcmc because one post in 3+ days seems out of character
Worth noting that it's WCD who starts the mcmc wagon. And she starts it when there's a sea of actual reads and cases and wagons on the table, which she doesn't really address.
I hate the wagon on Glooble, shame on all of you. For one thing, I just don't like to lynch new and returning players Day 1 unless there's a good reason (sends the wrong message!). But anyway it makes perfect sense for Glooble, who doesn't know ash plans are a typical thing, to really focus on this, as any alignment.
Alright, that’s fair.
vote: mcmc because one post in 3+ days seems out of character
Were all the votes on Glooble just because of his attitude to Ash's plan, though? Yours wasn't very well-explained, and just singled him out as the most productive place your vote could be, which isn't very enlightening for the rest of us. hyper's vote is the one that appeared to be explicitly because Glooble was promoting stalling while waiting for Ash. LL's was totally unexplained. So I'm not sure quite what your "that's fair" comment is agreeing with in Robz's statement.
I also don't feel the hyper wagon, because I approve of setup-reading, and think it's something an analytical player is quite likely to do. Am I right in remembering that hyper leans that sort of way?
I think a pressure vote on mcmc isn't a terrible thing right now. Vote: mcmc
Then Space, immediately after. This vote feels towny to me actually.
On another note, Glooble is reading townier to me on re-read. I think all of her “scummy” plays are pretty easily explained as rusty town coming to a changed meta in a complicated game.
Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.
If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I don’t have one, so partly this is all your fault.
Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.
One could argue if your plans are generally Pro-Town regardless of alignment, then it is skummy to make town wait to hear said plan.
Just saying - you know a plan is going to have an effect on the skum hunting (inevitable and NAI)... but withholding it after stating it exists doesn't really make sense. It is still going to have the unwanted effect of dialing back skum hunting, while simultaneously lessening the amount of time we all have to discuss the plan prior to the day ending.
In the few games I have played with you, I def give you the credit for being a crafty minx and all, but this doesn't really make a ton of sense.
And then back that up with the girl (doing Gooble's thing) bringing it up in the first place, followed by being the one accusing people of stalling... kind of reeks of skum sauce.
Vote: Ashes
I know I’m really the pot calling the kettle black for FOSsing ash voters, but this is an interesting place to be on that wagon. DatSwan is (I think) the third ash voter, but after a lot of posts have passed since the first two. So the vote is more significant than it looks.
The explanation for the vote feels like an excuse or a justification. Like the way you would preface a vote if you know a person’s likely to flip town. Scum points for Swan.
Swan: I think “not wanting to lynch x” and “not wanting to lynch x D1” are very different prospects. I don’t think the occasional day 1 pass compromises the integrity of the game. It’s similar (in terms of the affect on the game) to holding off on a d1 lynch of a very scummy player who claimed a PR. You can always lynch them the next day.
Anyway, vote: ashersky. Swan’s making sense here and ash’s response really rubbed me the wrong way.
PS: i’ll hammer Glooble if it comes to it, fwiw.
LOL and then I vote ash because “Swan’s making sense”. Well, I guess everything looks different in the light of a town investigative result.
I continue to get a slight scumread on WCD. She posts infrequently but her posts are lengthy, which could be indicative of newbie scum playing & posting very carefully. But it could also just be newbie town doing that. Her posts feel … strategic. idk. something to keep an eye on.
My problem with the mcmc lynch is that lynching a lurker tells us nothing. If she's scum that's fine, but if she's town, we have no wagons to analyze or anything like that.
I strongly disagree with this.
Firstly, it probably tells us something about what other roles are out there. This is more useful for town than for scum, because right now we (probably?) each only have one datapoint to go on to build up a framework of how the game works, and a second point is a 100% improvement. Less so for scum, because they probably already know each other's roles too.
Secondly, we already have wagons to look at, and flips on later days will let us look at people who're voting together or avoiding being on the same wagons. The only downside is that mcmc hasn't voted at all, which is just really bad town play from him. That hinders voting analysis whether or not we flip him now.
Thirdly, if mcmc is lurking this badly, we remove him from the game and leave more active players who give us better wagon analysis, more interactions and more gameplay. Scum isn't going to take him out for us if he's leaving himself as a big unknown, and he's really not a player town wants alive at lylo if he's not someone we can form opinions of... so if we don't have strong scumreads on active players, then mcmc is a great place for a good towny vote to go.
Glooble opposes mcmc lynch, says lurker lynch is low-info. Space’s reply feels weak to me. 1) knowing one role in a role madness game is actually not a lot of info, 2) lurker lynch wagons are not that useful because everyone can easily defend a policy vote without having to articulate a scum read 3) that would be fine if mcmc were an unknown entity, but we all know her meta and that she’s likely to become more active.
For some reason three people (WCD, cube, and mail-mi) show up to say how townie this slightly scummy post was.
How often does LAL actually hit scum though?
Basically never. Scum!mcmc (hate to say it) doesn't lurk this hard
This is correct. When momsalon rolls scum, he is into the game.
I know ash is town, but this is what drives me crazy about the mcmc shot. Ash herself all but says mcmc is a bad lynch, not likely to flip scum. Letting the town direct your vig shot without telling them they’re directing it is bad enough, but doing it when you have a townread on the person you’re shooting seems blantantly antitown. I do not regret my votes on ash.
Then mcmc shows up and I jump on her wagon. I am the only person on that wagon who actually expressed a scumread on mcmc based on her play. (and then Glooble sheeps me)
LaLight lurked pretty hard day 1. I don’t think it’s a scumtell but I think it’s worth mentioning.
One thing I've noticed about the game thus far is that people are very willing to defend joth. mail-mi and mcmc use my vote for joth as justification for their votes on me; E moves directly from joth to me after I vote for joth and then her case against me derails the joth wagon for good. I think this points towards joth being town? Certainly I'd think that scum would try to avoid defending their buddies so blatantly, especially since it never seemed super likely that joth would get lynched.
This is a good post.
I still think cube’s wagon was scummy and cube has seemed townie.
Then ash shoots a townie and disclaims all responsibility for her actions. I’m not like that upset because obviously I was driving the mcmc lynch at that point and legitimately thought she was scum, but I think it’s important to note that ash did not but shot her anyway then blamed the town, which is just obnoxiously poor play.
Well there's that.
Back to vote: joth
Hey mail-mi, what was this about?
In the interest of analysis, the ash wagon, in order:
Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.
If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I don’t have one, so partly this is all your fault.
Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.
One could argue if your plans are generally Pro-Town regardless of alignment, then it is skummy to make town wait to hear said plan.
Just saying - you know a plan is going to have an effect on the skum hunting (inevitable and NAI)... but withholding it after stating it exists doesn't really make sense. It is still going to have the unwanted effect of dialing back skum hunting, while simultaneously lessening the amount of time we all have to discuss the plan prior to the day ending.
In the few games I have played with you, I def give you the credit for being a crafty minx and all, but this doesn't really make a ton of sense.
And then back that up with the girl (doing Gooble's thing) bringing it up in the first place, followed by being the one accusing people of stalling... kind of reeks of skum sauce.
Vote: Ashes
(this is the only vote that came before the vig shot and DatSwan apparently doesn’t log on again until after the hammer)
But actually. Vote: ashersky
Convince me you aren't a SK or something like that
Ugh! Why kill mcmc? We weren’t that close to the deadline so it doesn’t make any sense to say the votes were there. And now we still need to lupynch someone?
Vote: Ash
Ok, knee jerk reaction is over.
Back to vote: joth
It seems pretty unlikely that a multi shot, or even one-shot, dayvig is town. So I would suggest we take the ash lynch off the table, at least for now.
unvote
I’ll look at some interactions to see where to move it.
This was an interesting reaction, and I think scummy
(effectively unvoting ash)
Here’s my read on the situation having never played a game with a diving before.
The reason for not telling people about it is to have an “ace in the hole”, so to speak. Now that it’s been used, everyone, town and scum knows to be on the lookout for it. I’m not sure why giving up the element of surprise to shoot someone you don’t have a particularly strong read on is a good use of the power.
Shooting me would have made a lot more sense. I would be less suspicious of that. Of course I would be dead, so that wouldn’t matter.
Shooting mcmc makes more sense if you’re scum. He’s got this “they were gonna lynch him anyway” defense, plus it throws suspicion onto me because people are going to wonder why you didn’t shoot me if I was your scumread.
Not to mention the fact that you say you had no idea the deadline would be extended, which means... you wanted to remove the only wagon with enough votes on it to be non-random at a point where the town had no time to reach a new consensus?
That’s super scummy to me.
vote: ash
vote: ash
Someone convince me that ashersky could be scum without the set up being broken because I badly want to vote for her.
I played a normal game on another site where scum team had 1 dayvig shot. Also maybe they should forgo the nk now. Or he’s a third party. Pick one
Good enough for me. vote: ash
So, here’s what I don’t get... Why did Ashersky kill mcmc when she did? Especially when she didn’t think she was scum? It’s seems pretty anti-town to choose the only marginally largest wagon with a full day left to talk before DL and shoot before letting her claim or allowing more votes to coalesce before the kill. Especially if she really thought Glooble was more scummy.
I’m not trying to be dense (I’m still kinda new at this), so it would help if someone could explain to me how that shot at this time helps town.
Hetnys, in the books, is Radchaii but is also not regally on the right side of things and end up being held hostage by Breq (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancillary_Sword).
I am assuming there is a modifier on ashes role where “they have to shoot or X happens”.... prettty much bc i agree with you that thier actions don’t make a ton of sense as skum. Draws way too much attention.
Unvote
Who is scummy on this wagon?
Me. Sure. I was the hammer and I did the whole “give me a reason” thing plus I basically drove the mcmc wagon also. So I can definitely see why I’m not coming off great here!
LaLight. No explanation for the vote. Ready to supply the reason I needed.
Sheepy-sheep on both mcmc and ash wagons.
WCD maybe
Who looks towny?
e and DatSwan for (trying to) jump off the wagon
Final scumreads after day 1 re-read:
mail-mi, Robz, LaLight, WCD and Swan a little bit
Nullreads/can’t decide:
Glooble, Awaclus, Space, Haddock (wasn’t around day 1)
Town reads:
ash, e, hypercube
me:
joth
dead:
mcmc
I feel good for having this out there, even though I didn't really find any smoking guns.