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[faust]

Some random setup talk that someone will call anti-town...

This is anti-town! There, I did it.

[faust]

Hmmm....  I mostly agree with this. I have Space next to Joth, and Dylan is more hazy for me. EFHW has been my longest running scummread and faust is up there, too.

So for how long, exactly, have you had a scumread on me?

[jotheonah]

I think ash is right, but I’m also not inclined to give him town points unless it turns out there actually are more PRs.

After all (non-traitor) mafia knows how many PRs we have left. If we have zero than it’s not risky at all for them to suggest a mass claim.

I had considered this already and rejected it because I thought PoE value didn’t outweigh the potential future value of the PRs, but I didn’t actually consider the fact that the remaining PRs are investigative roles with results, which I do think swings the needle.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hmmm....  I mostly agree with this. I have Space next to Joth, and Dylan is more hazy for me. EFHW has been my longest running scummread and faust is up there, too.

So for how long, exactly, have you had a scumread on me?

Since the beginning of D3. So, relatively recently.

[faust]

Hmmm....  I mostly agree with this. I have Space next to Joth, and Dylan is more hazy for me. EFHW has been my longest running scummread and faust is up there, too.

So for how long, exactly, have you had a scumread on me?

Since the beginning of D3. So, relatively recently.

1. What event triggered this scumread then?
2. Why did you emphasize that I'm your "longest-running" scumread if that read barely stretches back more than a few hours?

[WestCoastDidds]

Hmmm....  I mostly agree with this. I have Space next to Joth, and Dylan is more hazy for me. EFHW has been my longest running scummread and faust is up there, too.

So for how long, exactly, have you had a scumread on me?

Since the beginning of D3. So, relatively recently.

1. What event triggered this scumread then?
2. Why did you emphasize that I'm your "longest-running" scumread if that read barely stretches back more than a few hours?

Hi! (I have finished grading so I am positively giddy!)

1.The trigger was the way the gkrieg exile went down, and then your response to it at the beginning of this day. There has been some tension between you and Space this game that I am seeing through the gkrieg exile, as well.
 
2. That must have been an editing error.  EFHW is my longest running scumread by a significant margin.  You are my only other one, so I guest long-running in comparison to everyone else, but not nearly as enduring as the EFHW one.

[faust]

1.The trigger was the way the gkrieg exile went down, and then your response to it at the beginning of this day. There has been some tension between you and Space this game that I am seeing through the gkrieg exile, as well.

Can you expand on that? What about my repsonse did you think was scummy? And why did you mention the tension with Space -  is that an indicator that I am scum? If so, why do you think so? If not, why did you mention it?

[faust]

This game is significantly less active than it should be.

Request prods on Dylan and EFHW

[WestCoastDidds]

1.The trigger was the way the gkrieg exile went down, and then your response to it at the beginning of this day. There has been some tension between you and Space this game that I am seeing through the gkrieg exile, as well.

Can you expand on that? What about my repsonse did you think was scummy? And why did you mention the tension with Space -  is that an indicator that I am scum? If so, why do you think so? If not, why did you mention it?

I’m going to hold off on explicating the gkrieg related reasons for now. There were cocktails at supper and I’m not sure about my abilities to be clear. Also, it’s all based on my sense, not on specific passages of text (you’re far too clever for that!) so I’m wary of trying to share it.

However, the Space part of easier for me. I think you are finding one another scummy. I don’t really think that is manufactured (although I’m easily fooled) so my sense is that one of you is probably scum. Of those two, I think it’s you.

I’ll tell you what I find the most odd, though, and that is the complete lack of traction on EFHW. The only other person who was finding her genuinely scummy was gkrieg, which has shored up my belief since I know know I can trust his read completely. Ash has her on his scummy list, but no one else is even seriously entertaining her as scum. I am perplexed.

[ashersky]

I tend to agree that one of faust/Space is mafia.

EFHW works well as partner to either faust or Space, too.

[Swowl]

Vote Count 3.2:

Ashersky (2): Joth, faust
Not Voting (5): WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnenome, EFHW, Ashersky, Dylan32

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 3 starts now and ends Monday, March 15th at 6:30pm Forum Time.


*prods issued to EFHW and Dylan32

[faust]

However, the Space part of easier for me. I think you are finding one another scummy. I don’t really think that is manufactured (although I’m easily fooled) so my sense is that one of you is probably scum. Of those two, I think it’s you.

I don't understand. You think the scumreads aren't manufactured, but if one of us were scum, then by definition their scumread on the other would be manufactured. So I'm completely at a loss to understand what you mean here. One of us is town, and we're infallible, therefore the other must be scum? That is not a particularly good argument there.

Also, I'm not really scumreading Space anymore.

[EFHW]

Sorry! Spent yesterday on vca. Would vote ash or Didds. Will elaborate when not on phone.

[ashersky]

Due to RL stuff, I will be less and less available through the rest of the day. 

The game has reached that point where we are basically guessing.  As such, players that have produced content just become easier targets.  If exiling me helps the game, I'm all for it.

I guess I'd just ask the town players who want to vote for me to think about how they play the rest of the game after I flip town.  I'm not saying that keeps you from voting for me, but I think it's important to consider follow-on stuff.

[jotheonah]

Does anyone else want to weigh in on ash’s mass claim idea?

A simple yea or nay would suffice.

[faust]

nay

[EFHW]

Does anyone else want to weigh in on ash’s mass claim idea?

A simple yea or nay would suffice.

Nay. Town PRs can pick when to claim based on their best judgment. There's no town role that has to be out there, so that limits logically finding scum/ICs.

[EFHW]

My dilemma about ashersky: I found him scummy for 1. making the argument that kept the mathdude wagon alive (that math knew he wouldn't die at night) and 2. creating chaos with the Day 2 counterclaim.

On reflection, however, there was a good chance town would just exile him based on the counterclaim. I think the main reason we didn't was because it seems too unconvincing to have been made by scum. Now we hear he was rebelling against faust. Been there, done that! So to have been scum, ashersky would have had to make a weak claim to avoid getting exiled in order to create chaos and without the likelihood of exiling MiX, who had a strong claim.

So, I'm putting ash in my town bucket and leaving him there (I hope).

[EFHW]

However, the Space part of easier for me. I think you are finding one another scummy. I don’t really think that is manufactured (although I’m easily fooled) so my sense is that one of you is probably scum. Of those two, I think it’s you.

I don't understand. You think the scumreads aren't manufactured, but if one of us were scum, then by definition their scumread on the other would be manufactured. So I'm completely at a loss to understand what you mean here. One of us is town, and we're infallible, therefore the other must be scum? That is not a particularly good argument there.

Also, I'm not really scumreading Space anymore.

I agree this is odd.

[EFHW]

Regarding Dylan, I wanted to scumread him because I wanted to have less uncertainty in my life. Alas, I'm really not sure. Waiting to hear his promised case on faust.

vote: Didds

[jotheonah]

If we don’t mass claim, and there are no more PRs, (non-traitor) scum is basically 100% safe to claim at E-1 and to know there won’t be a counterclaim.

So I just want to say for the record, if you are an investigative PR, use your judgement. But don’t expect your claim to save you at E-1 because I’m extremely unlikely to believe a claim under those circumstances.

And that’s all the more I have to say about claims.

[faust]

My dilemma about ashersky: I found him scummy for 1. making the argument that kept the mathdude wagon alive (that math knew he wouldn't die at night) and 2. creating chaos with the Day 2 counterclaim.

On reflection, however, there was a good chance town would just exile him based on the counterclaim. I think the main reason we didn't was because it seems too unconvincing to have been made by scum. Now we hear he was rebelling against faust. Been there, done that! So to have been scum, ashersky would have had to make a weak claim to avoid getting exiled in order to create chaos and without the likelihood of exiling MiX, who had a strong claim.

So, I'm putting ash in my town bucket and leaving him there (I hope).

I don't know. The issue with ash is that everything he did is like 100% textbook ash. He follows his meta precisely. The counterclaim thing came just when I began finding it odd that ash had not yet done something outlandish that annoyed me. And "There was a good chance town would exile him" is just as good a reason for town!ash not to make that claim as it is for scum!ash.

[faust]

I'm trying hard to read EFHW as scum because I know that from how votes and wagons went down she's a reasonable candidate, but whenever she comes back and posts it just screams town to me.

[Dylan32]

Hey, sorry, I'm still here. I'm trying to make some last minute travel plans, so I'm going to be V/LA for the next week, but I will still have internet. I'll be on a plane for a few hours tomorrow though.

I say nay to the massclaim, though if a PR has results that would impact today, they should probably claim.

To EFHW asking about my faust case, the more I've thought about it, the less sure I am that it's a solid case. A lot of it for me is gut read, thinking through scum narratives for people's play so far, and PoE thinking the faust vs Space stuff didn't sound town v town to me. I'll see if there's a better case, but I'm not sure.

EFHW's comment about me seems strange to me. Like it's trying to consolidate towards a more acceptable exile for today, but keeping enough doubt on me to keep it viable to return to the manufactured scumread later. That or it's just legit doubt, idk.  I would like to hear the vca that they said they'd elaborate on when not on mobile.

[ashersky]

Maybe mafia can agree to give up their evil ways and join the forces of good, and we just all win?

No one is feeling very sure of their reads (me included). 

Not that it's a good idea anyway, but even no exile is annoyingly ineffective.  It's an odd early spot where it makes strategic sense for mafia to NK to cause/continue further confusion.