I'm going to put all the elements of the case against gkrieg in one place and then see where we are.
1. What's in a name? 108: faust voted gkrieg's catalog of name abbreviations as anti-town because it prolonged RVS. I'm having trouble making this into a scumtell, and faust's threshhold for voting is pretty low. gkrieg followed up faust's vote with several questions about why. Is that typical for town!gkrieg?
Then at
131 gkrieg says getting out of RVS early can cause mislynches. This was his third response to the vote. TWM then says "I feel like gkrieg is really defending himself here over something somewhat minor. I mean, the two people he is defending himself against aren't even voting for him." faust had moved on to McG by this time. So he seems defensive here, or he's putting in more throwaway comments, which also isn't good.
2. A Word of Advice 204 gkrieg defends Jake from being lynched because of his behavior, then offers suggestions for Jake to improve his play. I kind of thought we were done giving Jake suggestions - it's not like he hasn't heard that from many of us in many games. So this does seem like another unnecessary comment. gkrieg's next several posts put pressure on Jake: questioning why he is in Jake's lynchpool (227), pointing out the OMGUS nature of Jake's scum-hunting (243), and challenging Jake on a contradiction about Joseph (291). Not sure what to make of the pressure on Jake now, but with a flip this could be helpful.
3. Not paying attention 295 I ask gkrieg who he thinks as scummy. I've noticed he's been commenting but not taking any real positions. At
297 he says "Don't know yet. Haven't been paying enough attention honestly." I feel skeptical about this. He was advising/pressuring Jake through the 200's. So he had to be paying close attention there. And he's always immediately addressing any scumreads on him.
This comes up again at
431, where he votes Robz and says "Haven't paid attention to vote counts". Maybe he is actually feeling lazy lately. I don't know, but there had been 3 votes for Robz since the last vote count, so I think most town players would double check before voting. That's how I get to the idea that this a contrived nonchalance.
When I voted him at 480, saying "His "I'm not paying attention" thing is starting to feel like an act", he responded at 498 with "Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one." Plausible, I don't know.
4. History repeats itself Joseph does his stunt. faust puts him to L-1, and Joseph claims UB. faust posts but doesn't unvote. I assume that is why gkrieg then voted faust at
332. He doesn't actually give a reason.
374 is gkrieg's towniest post of the game: "I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be."
This post is where he realizes Robz is using the same arguments he did in M89 as scum. He also calls Joseph an IC. Scum don't like there to be IC's, so that could be towny.
Here is the Robz post from M89. It really is very similar.
...
But the big thing is, I don't believe Jake at all. So everything else is really beside the point. I absolutely still advocate his lynch. This is the claim scum makes--in fact, if I were Jake's partner, I would have told him to claim cop if he was in danger of being lynched, hoping to out a cop. I'm confident other vets very well may have done the same (in fact, maybe they did!). Lack of counterclaim means little in this setup.
So I'm still mega in favor of lynching Jake. More in favor of it, if anything.
He votes Robz. Then at 457 he says "Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum. I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop." This is a little odd. Maybe he is feeling proud of his discovery, which is reasonable. But why mention the comment he made in the QT? It isn't evidence of anything. And there's that "honestly" again. Maybe someone could check if he does say that all the time.
What really bothers me about it is that by this time Robz had given his defense, that he thought Awaclus was soft-claiming, and there were reasons to believe him. But gkrieg is still making the earlier case, even though this new information does change the picture quite a bit.
He sticks to his guns, advocating Robz or Awaclus lynches. But when Robz is finally hammered and says he was town, at
844 gkrieg said "Thank goodness". I'm really curious what he could have meant by that.
5.
faust's case 594 faust mostly found different examples than I did of posts that could be read as scummy. I don't understand why supporting Joseph was scummy. faust did mention gkrieg's restating his theory without acknowledging the new information. He felt gkrieg was artificially trying to keep his activity up, an impression I also have. As he has done throughout the game, gkrieg answered most of the points with explanations (
628), but I couldn't get any sense of his alignment through what he said.
612 mcmc votes gkrieg based on faust's case, gkrieg again addresses it with explanations. Is that typical of how he plays as town?
6.
Knowing Day 2, this is the quote I didn't like, because of his use of the word "know".
I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.
Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town. I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.
I realize this seems overly picky, but my feeling about it is that 1. he wanted to present himself as town, so he emphasized that would help his analysis and 2. town!gkrieg doesn't KNOW Awaclus was town, and he doesn't KNOW faust is town either, and faust is the basis for his townread on Awaclus. I think he said "know" because he wanted to look towny, and then forgot that he couldn't actually know Awaclus's alignment as town. It's a scumslip. I know TWM doesn't agree, and did something similar, but I think this is worth making note of.
7.
Rereading Soon after I voted gkrieg at 995 (for the knowing thing), he posts
1029 This is gkrieg's reread that ended with a vote on me. You can read my response at
1136. Suffice to say I had a lot of problems with it.
After my critique, gkrieg said it was a reread that ended with a vote, not an intention to make a case on me. But he asks for responses to his "post on EFHW" at 1099, 1106, 1132, and 1134 where he reposts it. I think he was trying to undermine me because I was putting a lot of pressure on him.
I won't make a big deal about his thinking Calamitas is alive. That could be anything.
1242 He does another reread of me. You can find my responses at
1264. Basically I tried to clear up a series of misunderstandings. This reread was more carefully done than the previous one, and it's hard not to have OMGUS, but I find the reasoning again pretty weak, yet presented as though it is strong.
This took much too long. Obviously, I get an overall scummy impression of gkrieg from this reread. How does it add up for other people?
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Topic: M91: trouble in the Scouncil (schadnd mafia) (g@me over) (Read 206813 times)