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[eHalcyon]

Am I reading it wrong?  mjb built Archery Range for 2 Wood, 1 Ore.  Why is he buying Wood from Qvist?  mjb has Lumber Yard, Caravansery, and his wonder stage 1.

[nkirbit]

If mjb submitted the move as paying qvist, should TA have processed it that way?  Or told him he didn't need to.

I don't know for sure that's what happened, but I assume it is.

[eHalcyon]

I am not certain, but I believe that you are not supposed to be able to buy from neighbours when you can produce the resources you need on your own.  This is definitely the rule in the team game (with the Cities expansion).  I believe it is also the case in the regular, individual game.  I remember reading a rules question on BGG about it, in a situation where the player could afford the card on his own but still wanted to buy from a neighbour because his particular set of cards made it such that he would actually GAIN money via commerce.  But it was ruled that he could not do it.  I think.

[michaeljb]

I did not say I would buy from Qvist. I also didn't specify where exactly all my resources came from, so I'll be sure to do that from now on to make things easier on our host...

[eHalcyon]

FWIW, I think the post I am remembering is this one, by our very own Tables.  However, there is no definitive source.  I skimmed the base game rules and I can't find a part that specifically forbids buying from a player when you don't have to.  However, the section on Commerce is written such that it is implied.  It says (paraphrased):

Sometimes you want to build something for which you don't have the resources.  If your neighbours produce the resources, you can buy them...

The implication is that you can only buy them when you don't produce them.

[Twistedarcher]

Sorry guys, this was my fault. He did NOT buy from Qvist.

Here's what happened:

Originally, looking at it, he made his order, without the order to buy from Qvist. I went through it, and forgot his wonder resource, and noticed he was 1 resource short. Since he was 1 resource short, I had him buy from Qvist, who was cheaper (mostly because I wanted to get the game moving again). I then realized that he had the wonder, so no coins were transfered, but I forgot to edit it out of the top of the post.

In summary, no coins were transferred! Sorry for the confusion, completely my mistake

[nkirbit]

Qvist - DONE
Michaeljb -
Tables -
Ahoppy - 
Archetype -
liopoil - DONE
Nkirbit - DONE, SENT

[michaeljb]

Qvist - DONE
Michaeljb - DONE
Tables -
Ahoppy - 
Archetype -
liopoil - DONE
Nkirbit - DONE, SENT

[Tables]

Sorted now, but a new official clarification came out, saying that the rules for Team Games should also be considered an errata for the base game, or words to that effect. So you can't buy if you can produce.

[AHoppy]

Qvist - DONE
Michaeljb - DONE
Tables -
Ahoppy -  DONE
Archetype -
liopoil - DONE
Nkirbit - DONE, SENT

[liopoil]

Qvist - DONE
Michaeljb - DONE
Tables -
Ahoppy -  DONE
Archetype -
liopoil - DONE, SENT
Nkirbit - DONE, SENT

[Tables]

Qvist - DONE
Michaeljb - DONE
Tables - DONE, SENT
Ahoppy -  DONE
Archetype -
liopoil - DONE, SENT
Nkirbit - DONE, SENT

[Archetype]

Qvist - DONE
Michaeljb - DONE
Tables - DONE, SENT
Ahoppy -  DONE
Archetype - DONE
liopoil - DONE, SENT
Nkirbit - DONE, SENT

[Twistedarcher]

Age II Hand IV:

Qvist builds Foundry: Produce two Ore. Cost: 1 Coin.
MIchaeljb builds Courthouse: 4 VPs. Chain from: Scriptorium. Cost: 2 Brick, Cloth.
Tables builds Quarry: Produce two Stone. Cost: 1 Coin.
Ahoppy  builds School: Tablet. Chain to: Academy & Study. Cost: Wood, Papyrus.
Archetype builds Training Ground: 2 Shields. Chain to: Circus. Cost: Wood, 2 Ore.
Liopoil builds Temple: 3 VPs. Chain from: Altar. Chain to: Pantheon. Cost: Wood, Brick, Glass.
Nkirbit builds Glassworks: Produce Glass.

Qvist as Olympia (B)
Coins: 4
Strength: 3
Military points: 2 (1,1)
Wonder stages built: 1
Wonder Stage 1: 2 Wood - Buy B/S/W/O for 1 from neighbors - Complete
Wonder Stage 2: 2 Stone - 5 VP - Incomplete
Wonder Stage 3 - 2 Ore, 1 Cloth - Use a neighbor's guild -- Incomplete


Tableau
Wonder Resource: Produce Wood
Timber Yard: Produce Stone/Wood. Cost: 1 Coin.
Clay Pool: Produce Brick.
Foundry: Produce two Ore. Cost: 1 Coin.
Loom: Produce Cloth.

Altar: 2 VPs. Chain to: Temple.
Courthouse: 4 VPs. Chain from: Scriptorium. Cost: 2 Brick, Cloth.
Temple: 3 VPs. Chain from: Altar. Chain to: Pantheon. Cost: Wood, Brick, Glass.

Stockade: 1 Shield. Cost: Wood.
Stables: 2 Shields. Chain from: Apothecary. Cost: Ore, Brick. Wood.

Michaeljb as Alexandria (B)
Coins: 2
Strength: 2
Military Points: -1 (-1)
Wonder stages built: 2
Wonder Stage 1 - 2 Stone - Produce W/S/O/B - Complete
Wonder Stage 2 - 2 Wood - Produce G/C/P - Complete
Wonder Stage 3 - 3 Stone - 7 VPs

Tableau
Stone Pit: Produce Stone.
Lumber Yard: Produce Wood.
Wonder Resource: Produce Glass
Loom: Produce Cloth.

West Trading Post: Raw materials cost 1 to buy from the left (from Qvist). Chain to: Forum.
Caravansery: Produce Brick/Stone/Ore/Wood. Chain from: Marketplace. Chain to: Lighthouse. Cost: 2 Wood.

Baths: 3 VPs. Chain to: Aqueduct. Cost: Stone.
Courthouse: 4 VPs. Chain from: Scriptorium. Cost: 2 Brick, Cloth.

Archery Range: 2 Shields. Chain from: Workshop. Cost: 2 Wood, Ore.

Tables as Gizah (A)
Coins: 9
Strength: 2
Military points: -1 (-1)
Wonder stages built: 1
Wonder Stage 1 - 2 Stone - 3 VPs - Complete
Wonder Stage 2 - 3 Wood - 5 VPs - Incomplete
Wonder Stage 3 - 4 Stone - 7 VPs - Incomplete

Tableau
Wonder Resource: Produce Stone
Forest Cave: Produce Wood/Ore. Cost: 1 Coin.
Excavation: Produce Stone/Brick. Cost: 1 Coin.
Lumber Yard: Produce Wood.
Quarry: Produce two Stone. Cost: 1 Coin.

Tavern: 5 Coins.
Marketplace: Manufactured Goods cost 1 to buy from both sides. Chain to: Caravansery.

Stables: 2 Shields. Chain from: Apothecary. Cost: Ore, Brick. Wood.

Baths: 3 VPs. Chain to: Aqueduct. Cost: Stone.
Aqueduct: 5 VPs. Chain from: Baths. Cost: 3 Stone.

Ahoppy as Ephesos (B)
Coins: 4
Strength: 3
Military Points: 2 (1,1)
Wonder stages built: 1
Wonder Stage 1 - 2 Stone - 2 VPs, 4 Coins -- Complete
Wonder Stage 2 - 2 Wood - 3 VPs, 4 Coins -- Incomplete
Wonder Stage 3 - 1 Glass, 1 Cloth, 1 Papyrus - 5 VPs, 4 Coins -- Incomplete

Tableau
Clay Pool: Produce Brick.
Wonder Resource: Produce Papyrus
Glassworks: Produce Glass.

West Trading Post: Raw materials cost 1 to buy from the left (from Tables). Chain to: Forum.
Caravansery: Produce Brick/Stone/Ore/Wood. Chain from: Marketplace. Chain to: Lighthouse. Cost: 2 Wood.
Forum: Produce Cloth/Glass/Paper. Chain from: West/East Trading Post. Chain to: Haven. Cost: 2 Brick.

Guard Tower: 1 Shield. Cost: Brick.
Archery Range: 2 Shields. Chain from: Workshop. Cost: 2 Wood, Ore.

Workshop: Gear. Chain to: Archery Range & Laboratory. Cost: Glass.
School: Tablet. Chain to: Academy & Study. Cost: Wood, Papyrus.

Archetype as Rhodes (B)
Coins: 3
Strength: 2
Military Points: -2 (-1,-1)
Wonder stages built: 0
Wonder Stage 1 - 3 Stone - 1 Shield, 3 VPs, 3 Coins - Incomplete
Wonder Stage 2 - 4 Ore - 1 Shield, 4 VPs, 4 Coins - Incomplete

Tableau
Wonder Resource: Produce Ore
Ore Vein: Produce Ore.
Quarry: Produce two Stone. Cost: 1 Coin.

East Trading Post: Raw materials cost 1 to buy from the right (Liopoil). Chain to: Forum.
Marketplace: Manufactured Goods cost 1 to buy from both sides. Chain to: Caravansery.
Caravansery: Produce Brick/Stone/Ore/Wood. Chain from: Marketplace. Chain to: Lighthouse. Cost: 2 Wood.

Training Ground: 2 Shields. Chain to: Circus. Cost: Wood, 2 Ore.

Apothecary: Compasses. Chain to: Stables & Dispensary. Cost: Cloth.
Workshop: Gear. Chain to: Archery Range & Laboratory. Cost: Glass.
Dispensary: Compasses. Chain from: Apothecary. Chain to: Arena & Lodge. Cost: 2 Ore, Glass.

Liopoil as Halikarnassos (A)
Coins: 1
Strength: 2
Military Points: 2 (1,1)
Wonder stages built: 1
Wonder Stage 1 - 2 Brick - 3 VPs - Complete
Wonder Stage 2 - 3 Ore - Play one discarded card - Incomplete
Wonder Stage 3 - 2 Cloth - 7 VPs - Incomplete

Tableau
Tree Farm: Produce Wood/Brick. Cost: 1 Coin.
Clay Pit: Produce Brick/Ore. Cost: 1 Coin.
Foundry: Produce two Ore. Cost: 1 Coin.
Wonder Resource: Produce Cloth
Press: Produce Papyrus.

Forum: Produce Cloth/Glass/Paper. Chain from: West/East Trading Post. Chain to: Haven. Cost: 2 Brick.

Barracks: 1 Shield. Cost: Ore.
Stockade: 1 Shield. Cost: Wood.

Statue: 4 VPs. Chain from: Theater. Chain to: Gardens. Cost: Wood, 2 Ore.
Temple: 3 VPs. Chain from: Altar. Chain to: Pantheon. Cost: Wood, Brick, Glass.

Nkirbit as Babylon (B)
Coins: 2
Strength: 0
Military Points: -2 (-1, -1)
Wonder stages built: 2
Wonder Stage 1 - 1 Brick, 1 Cloth - 3 VPs - Complete
Wonder Stage 2 - 2 Wood, 1 Glass - Use both cards at the end of an age - Complete
Wonder Stage 3 - 3 Brick, 1 Papyrus - Tablet/Compass/Gear - Incomplete

Tableau
Wonder Resource: Produce Brick
Mine: Produce Ore/Stone. Cost: 1 Coin.
Press: Produce Papyrus.
Glassworks: Produce Glass.

East Trading Post: Raw materials cost 1 to buy from the right (Qvist). Chain to: Forum.
Forum: Produce Cloth/Glass/Paper. Chain from: West/East Trading Post. Chain to: Haven. Cost: 2 Brick.

Scriptorium: Tablet. Chain to: Courthouse & Library. Cost: Papyrus.
Library: Tablet. Chain from: Scriptorium. Chain to: Senate & University. Cost: 2 Stone, Cloth.

[Twistedarcher]

Qvist -
Michaeljb -
Tables -
Ahoppy -
Archetype -
liopoil -
Nkirbit -

[liopoil]

Qvist -
Michaeljb -
Tables -
Ahoppy -
Archetype -
liopoil - DONE
Nkirbit -

[Twistedarcher]

Let's see if we can finish Age II before 7 Wonders - Teams does!

[eHalcyon]

Archetype built Quarry in his previous hand.  Why is it listed again from this hand?

Edit: looks like the new addition is actually Training Ground.

Edit again:
For Tables, it says 0 wonder stages built but wonder stage 1 complete.  So there is something incorrect in there.

[liopoil]

...TA, doublecheck that the hand you sent me is accurate.

[Twistedarcher]

Argh, thanks eHalc. One of these times I'll get it all correct...

[Tables]

Archetype built Quarry in his previous hand.  Why is it listed again from this hand?

Edit: looks like the new addition is actually Training Ground.

Edit again:
For Tables, it says 0 wonder stages built but wonder stage 1 complete.  So there is something incorrect in there.

Yeah, I have one stage built.

[michaeljb]

Qvist -
Michaeljb - DONE
Tables -
Ahoppy -
Archetype -
liopoil - DONE
Nkirbit -

[Tables]

Qvist -
Michaeljb - DONE
Tables - DONE
Ahoppy -
Archetype -
liopoil - DONE
Nkirbit -

[Archetype]

Qvist -
Michaeljb - DONE
Tables - DONE
Ahoppy -
Archetype - DONE, SENT
liopoil - DONE
Nkirbit -

[AHoppy]

Qvist -
Michaeljb - DONE
Tables - DONE
Ahoppy - DONE, SENT
Archetype - DONE, SENT
liopoil - DONE
Nkirbit -