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[Archetype]

Because EFHW is scum, Walrus. I don't think Faust is and really want to hit scum today.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've figured out what happened with the whole Eevee thing. Going into mod-mode

Eevee is a Paranoid Hook Owning Babysitter.

Each night he may target one player. That player will be protected from night kill. However, if you are killed, you will in turn kill your target and any other players that targeted them that night.

End mod mode

This explains why jotheonah, Eevee, and Walrus all were killed. Eevee targeted jotheonah to protect him. Walrus targeted Eevee because he's cool like that. Scum wants us to think they killed Walrus, but they figured I would target Walrus and possibly see Voltaire target Walrus. So instead they shot Eevee. Sadly I rolled Tracker instead of Watcher, so I ended up not catching Voltaire in the act.

The end. Now lets lynch EFHW.

[faust]

faust: Did you Bodyguard me, or did you force me to Bodyguard you?

I bodyguarded you. Thought it would be nice to have a investigative role around.

[faust]

I don't know...something about this just smells fishy to me. "Too easy", as it were, although that's not exactly the right word for it. There are alternatives that could have happened that I can think of, and I think it's quite likely that someone is lying, or there are other powers that we haven't accounted for. It all just seems too "neat" of a trap to be unraveled like this...more like a theory that scum would push, to try to get in one more pivotal mislynch. Do we have any confirmation, for example, that faust targeted Arch? I think it's pretty likely that he's not lying about his role--after all, lying about one's first role would seem to be a good way to get double-lynched pretty quick. But maybe he didn't actually target Arch, and he's trying to spin this as scummier than it is. xeiron's role seems harder to fake.

Why don't you share these with us?

[faust]

Actually unvote. I want to lynch Archetype.  Someone objected to L1 earlier.  Are you ready now, whoever you were?  I'm on phone or I'd look it up.

Yes, I'm ready.

[faust]

Because EFHW is scum, Walrus. I don't think Faust is and really want to hit scum today.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've figured out what happened with the whole Eevee thing. Going into mod-mode

Eevee is a Paranoid Hook Owning Babysitter.

Each night he may target one player. That player will be protected from night kill. However, if you are killed, you will in turn kill your target and any other players that targeted them that night.

End mod mode

This explains why jotheonah, Eevee, and Walrus all were killed. Eevee targeted jotheonah to protect him. Walrus targeted Eevee because he's cool like that. Scum wants us to think they killed Walrus, but they figured I would target Walrus and possibly see Voltaire target Walrus. So instead they shot Eevee. Sadly I rolled Tracker instead of Watcher, so I ended up not catching Voltaire in the act.

The end. Now lets lynch EFHW.

Or we just use Ockham's Razor. Paranoid Hook Owner = Paranoid Gun Owner. Eevee babysitted jotheonah (probably hoping to take him down with himself). Walrus is scum and shot Eevee. Archetype claims having targted Eevee, who was about to die, how convenient. In reality, Arch targeted Voltaire to block him. Walrus probably also used his second role on someone, maybe me.

What's supporting this scenario, by the way, is that Walrus announced that he wanted to target Eevee because he thought Eevee would be the night kill. He said this to xeiron apparently, he will be able to confirm. Now how about that?

[xeiron]

Because EFHW is scum, Walrus. I don't think Faust is and really want to hit scum today.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've figured out what happened with the whole Eevee thing. Going into mod-mode

Eevee is a Paranoid Hook Owning Babysitter.

Each night he may target one player. That player will be protected from night kill. However, if you are killed, you will in turn kill your target and any other players that targeted them that night.

End mod mode

This explains why jotheonah, Eevee, and Walrus all were killed. Eevee targeted jotheonah to protect him. Walrus targeted Eevee because he's cool like that. Scum wants us to think they killed Walrus, but they figured I would target Walrus and possibly see Voltaire target Walrus. So instead they shot Eevee. Sadly I rolled Tracker instead of Watcher, so I ended up not catching Voltaire in the act.

The end. Now lets lynch EFHW.

I do not buy this explanation. Makes me more likely to believe in a Archetype - Walrus team.

[faust]

Wait.

unvote

EFHW, what was the negative effect that was taking place during the last night?

[EFHW]

Wait.

unvote

EFHW, what was the negative effect that was taking place during the last night?

When you targeted me N1, we became lovers for the next day and night. 

[xeiron]

You guys do realize that if I'm scum, Walrus has to be too, right? And since I have 2 lives and he has 1, why aren't you voting for him? You're trying to lynch scum right?

Vote: EFHW

Do people think I'm lying about my role?

I'm pretty sure xeiron and Walrus are Town. EFHW is scum, and her partner is either Voltaire or faust. Voltaire goes from "Well, Eevee's role could just be misleading" to "Archetype is 100% scum" in just a few posts. faust, I fear, is just being mislead. I'd vote for Voltaire, but if I'm wrong (and I really do not think I am) we won't (most likely) auto-lose.

Walrus: Don't claim.

Archetype, why is it impossible for you to be scum with anybody else than Walrus?

[faust]

Wait.

unvote

EFHW, what was the negative effect that was taking place during the last night?

When you targeted me N1, we became lovers for the next day and night.

Ohh, that's romantic!

Seriously though, this seems like something nice and flavorful and I don't think it's a lie. Plus, it doesnt explain why Archetype (rsp. me) didn't die. So back to

vote: Archetype

[xeiron]

Or we just use Ockham's Razor. Paranoid Hook Owner = Paranoid Gun Owner. Eevee babysitted jotheonah (probably hoping to take him down with himself). Walrus is scum and shot Eevee. Archetype claims having targted Eevee, who was about to die, how convenient. In reality, Arch targeted Voltaire to block him. Walrus probably also used his second role on someone, maybe me.

What's supporting this scenario, by the way, is that Walrus announced that he wanted to target Eevee because he thought Eevee would be the night kill. He said this to xeiron apparently, he will be able to confirm. Now how about that?

I am not immediately convinced by our PHO = PGO argument. My experience says that when a mod changes a name of a mafiascum standardole, they also changes the role a little.
I think Paranoid hook owner is a variant of PGO. But not the exact same role. It might be a variant that lets Archetype target eevee and still live, or it might not. I am not willing to draw a conclusion yet.

As for the second paragraph, there have been some miscommunication between us. First, we are talking about Archetype, not walrus (I suppose that's just a typo from you)
Second, Archetype told me that he thought eevee would do the nightkill, not be killed. (That was me being unclear in our QT)

[Voltaire]

Still here, still happy with my Archetype vote.

[faust]

As for the second paragraph, there have been some miscommunication between us. First, we are talking about Archetype, not walrus (I suppose that's just a typo from you)
Second, Archetype told me that he thought eevee would do the nightkill, not be killed. (That was me being unclear in our QT)

Yes, the first thing was a typo.

For the second, interesting. Has Archetype expressed a scumread on Eevee D2? He voted EFHW in the end, but of course he couldn't vote Eevee then.

[xeiron]

I confirm that Archetype told me during night that he targeted Eevee.

Why are you postponing giving and getting information?  What did Archetypes pm say?

I am looking for possibilities for catching scum in a lie.
It is much easier for them to create fakeclaimes and cover theories when they have all the facts.

[EFHW]

xeiron does remind me that in my role, only one of the people targeting me was affected by the negative outcome, and that the person chosen would be the one that was earliest in the resolution chain.  According to the list he gave me, killing is earlier than inspecting, so if he is doing the same thing with Eevee then Arch would not be killed. 

HOWEVER, this restriction makes sense with my role b/c the person targeting me became temporary lovers with me, and having three or more people connected that way would be way too swingy.  It does not make as much sense with Eevee's role, b/c we have a lot of extra lives that need to be used up.

[Voltaire]

So what are you saying because of that, EFHW? I got lost somewhere in the explanation.

[xeiron]

xeiron does remind me that in my role, only one of the people targeting me was affected by the negative outcome, and that the person chosen would be the one that was earliest in the resolution chain.  According to the list he gave me, killing is earlier than inspecting, so if he is doing the same thing with Eevee then Arch would not be killed. 

HOWEVER, this restriction makes sense with my role b/c the person targeting me became temporary lovers with me, and having three or more people connected that way would be way too swingy.  It does not make as much sense with Eevee's role, b/c we have a lot of extra lives that need to be used up.

Do you have a list of resolution priority?
That may be very importaint!
Do you mind posting it?

[yuma]

Vote Count 3.5

Archetype (2): Voltaire, faust
EFHW (1): Archetype
faust (1): Walrus

Not Voting (2): xeiron, EFHW

With six alive it takes four to lynch

Deadline for Day3 will be 8 days and will be February 26 at 7:00 pm forum time.

[xeiron]

I think the main question now, is if it is possible to explain Walrus' death without him being scum.

I mean, he could have been nightkilled by scum, but what then about Eevee and Jotheonah?
He said he did not target eevee, so if he did, he must have been lying ergo scum.

Archetypes explanation theoretically works, but I do not like it.

Any other explanations?

[EFHW]

I think the main question now, is if it is possible to explain Walrus' death without him being scum.

I mean, he could have been nightkilled by scum, but what then about Eevee and Jotheonah?
He said he did not target eevee, so if he did, he must have been lying ergo scum.

Archetypes explanation theoretically works, but I do not like it.

Any other explanations?

If Eevee was a delayed kill from N1, Walrus could have been the N2 nk.

[EFHW]

xeiron does remind me that in my role, only one of the people targeting me was affected by the negative outcome, and that the person chosen would be the one that was earliest in the resolution chain.  According to the list he gave me, killing is earlier than inspecting, so if he is doing the same thing with Eevee then Arch would not be killed. 

HOWEVER, this restriction makes sense with my role b/c the person targeting me became temporary lovers with me, and having three or more people connected that way would be way too swingy.  It does not make as much sense with Eevee's role, b/c we have a lot of extra lives that need to be used up.

Do you have a list of resolution priority?
That may be very importaint!
Do you mind posting it?

yuma gave it to me in a pm, so I don't know if I can quote it.  OTOH, he did say in the OP that he intended to put that list up, but he never did.

yuma: Can I quote the resolution chain you gave me in our pm discussion?

[EFHW]

So what are you saying because of that, EFHW? I got lost somewhere in the explanation.

I'm saying that if Eevee had an alteration of his PGO role that mirrored mine, only one person would have been killed from his paranoia, and the person killing him (presumably Walrus) would be killed rather than someone investigating him (Arch's claim). 

It is a reason Arch could have survived and not be scum.  I'm not saying it happened that way, b/c having only one targeter affected makes sense with my role (which created lovers), but doesn't with Eevee's, which took lives (of which we have too many).

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Well, I think the PGO != PHO is the best explanation here. The roles revealed so far have been mostly far from vanilla. Right now I'm imagining the most likely possibility to be this:

Eevee targets joth. Eevee's power somehow 'transfers' vengefulness to joth for the night, but also links them together death-wise. So Arch targets Eevee, no death. I target joth, I do die. Scum shoots Eevee, both Eevee and joth die.

I think the second likeliest answer is that someone (maybe Voltaire) is lying about his role and messed with the night actions yesterday.

Either way it feels like we're walking into an Archetype mislynch to me. Of course it's so frustrating when the first flip is just going to be a dummy anyway.

[Voltaire]

Either way it feels like we're walking into an Archetype mislynch to me. Of course it's so frustrating when the first flip is just going to be a dummy anyway.

We could just lynch you.

[yuma]

yuma gave it to me in a pm, so I don't know if I can quote it.  OTOH, he did say in the OP that he intended to put that list up, but he never did.

yuma: Can I quote the resolution chain you gave me in our pm discussion?

No quoting of mod supplied info.

But here is the resolution chain, from mafiascum, that I am basing night actions off (mine varies somewhat due to different/new roles and as such I can't fully disclose here)

Copy
Hide
Bus
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect