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[liopoil]

Oh, if you are indeed town, you don't need to try to convince me, I'll believe the flip . And if you do flip town, I'll read everything you've said again knowing that you are town. But for now, I'm still hoping you're scum.

[Voltaire]

But for now, I'm still hoping you're scum.

Of course. But it's a false hope, just telling you now.

Again, I'll take any questions if people want/care to ask me anything. Otherwise, this'll be my last post as I don't want to clutter too much now that I'm dead. My reads are out there, don't tunnel them though, be smart about it. Scumhunt ash and when you're sure lynch the heck out of him. Don't forget to look at the final vote D1 on D2. Don't forget to look at the wagons.

[EFHW]

THREAD LOCKED

[EFHW]

THREAD UNLOCKED - Now I see yuma promised you a long twilight.

[mcmcsalot]

Yea, even I you are a town pr, I'm not too upset at ash. What he said was right, there was no reason for you not to claim a pr, if your scum you would claim and that doesn't make chairs more likely to be scum, so he still would have been right to hammer(right as in logical thinking you are scum)

We nicely had two huge wagons. Looking at a few things,

Volt flipping town:
Makes chairs, ash, myself look a bit scummy. And makes robz awkward jump off of volt just awkward.

Volt flipping scum:
Makes chairs, ash, myself look townie, and robz a bit scummy(it looks as though he last minute wanted to spare his partner.

Obviously there's more that's what I can remember

[Voltaire]

(Also, I'm getting sick of being called scummy for like every post I make or attempt to help.  That or calling them useless.  People seem to be building up this narrative that I'm not helping, ignoring the actual content of a lot of what I post and it's infuriating.  And then there are all the talk about posting too much being bad for town, but everyone lurks and won't actually talk or hash things out or respond to anything.  At first people gave me a lot of credit for putting in a lot of effort, and yeah that made me happy, but it seems like Raerae and Shraeye are kind of leading a backlash on that and on putting in any effort.  I should probably just shut up now.  I post too fucking much anyway.  I'll try to be quiet and not help so much or even try, then everyone will think I'm contributing more!)

Snow, you're playing a great game. Keep it up.

[chairs]

I feel like at this point we should just assume that (since it's twilight) Volt's got no benefit to lying (we can't unhammer him, after all).

Volt: I'm not familiar with the "play a little scummy so I don't get mislynched" concept at all - is this normal?

I guess how we proceed D2 should really depend on tonight's kill.

(Also, I'm getting sick of being called scummy for like every post I make or attempt to help.  That or calling them useless.  People seem to be building up this narrative that I'm not helping, ignoring the actual content of a lot of what I post and it's infuriating.  And then there are all the talk about posting too much being bad for town, but everyone lurks and won't actually talk or hash things out or respond to anything.  At first people gave me a lot of credit for putting in a lot of effort, and yeah that made me happy, but it seems like Raerae and Shraeye are kind of leading a backlash on that and on putting in any effort.  I should probably just shut up now.  I post too fucking much anyway.  I'll try to be quiet and not help so much or even try, then everyone will think I'm contributing more!)

Snow, you're playing a great game. Keep it up.

Agreed.

[chairs]

(Even though you think I'm scum)

[mcmcsalot]

Hopefully volt flips scum and scum is left in the group of eevee, nk(scummy off wagon), TA(scummy on wagon) Ash(I've been back and forth because his play has been very "ash beneficial" which ultimately could be town beneficial or scum beneficial)

[liopoil]

Yea, even I you are a town pr, I'm not too upset at ash. What he said was right, there was no reason for you not to claim a pr, if your scum you would claim and that doesn't make chairs more likely to be scum, so he still would have been right to hammer

Uhhhh what? If volt is actually a town PR then he would be IC after claiming because of no counterclaim...

[Voltaire]

Volt: I'm not familiar with the "play a little scummy so I don't get mislynched" concept at all - is this normal?

For some people. Yuma did it as the doctor in B2B. It's not necessarily a good or bad strategy, it's just a strategy.

And I didn't try to be ULTRASCUMMY or anything, I just every now and then ignored a question I didn't think was important. People tend to find not answering questions scummy. I didn't want to be so scummy I got lynched (and I don't think I was, scum drove my wagon hard). That's the only scummy thing I did.

I scum-hunted and tried my best during the day. Believe every single thing I said. I never lied.

(THIS post is trying to discount scum saying tomorrow "well we can't use Volt's reads, he said he was being scummy!" Don't fall for that)

[mcmcsalot]

Apologies for not mentioning you all game umbrage.

Since about your second post of the game you have engaged what I believe to be town speak; I feel extremely confident you are town simply because of the work and care you have for towns well being. This is fake able as scum, it is also hard and strenuous and tricky to attempt as a first timer. I can understand raerae and shraeye being worried if you are scum we don't actually have concrete reasons to have zero suspicion about you. I'm willing to take the 10% chance I'm wrong and your a really smart hard working scum player, so I will not be voting for you. That's my opinion.

[liopoil]

I feel like at this point we should just assume that (since it's twilight) Volt's got no benefit to lying (we can't unhammer him, after all).

Not quite true - he can waste our twilight and distract us. Also, if he admitted to being scum then we could scumhunt some more during twilight, helping town PRs target the right people. Also he could be trying to get clues about the identity of the real trackervig.

[Voltaire]

Yea, even I you are a town pr, I'm not too upset at ash. What he said was right, there was no reason for you not to claim a pr, if your scum you would claim and that doesn't make chairs more likely to be scum, so he still would have been right to hammer

Uhhhh what? If volt is actually a town PR then he would be IC after claiming because of no counterclaim...

Yeah, people aren't thinking this through. Mcmc (ash if you're town):

D1 scenario:
Scum claims PR.
Gets counter-claimed.
Town lynches one claimant (let's just assume they get it wrong and lynch the real PR first)
mafia nks

on D2, that's 11 players alive, 3 of which are scum
town lynches the fakeclaiming mafia
mafia nks

on D3, that's 9 players left, 2 of which are scum. Town still has 2 PRs left.

That is WORST case scenario. There's a chance town lynches scum first, in which case D2 is 11 players left, 2 of which are scum, town has 2 PRs.

Even in this game, a 1 for 1 trade is good for town. And mafia can't fake-claim PRs in this setup! Only crazygambitscum will claim a PR.

Also he could be trying to get clues about the identity of the real trackervig.

*raises hand*

[Robz888]

I informed yuma that we lynched someone.

There's zero reason to believe Voltaire right now; he could just be trying to goad the real trackerlante into claiming. So we'll see after the flip.

[Voltaire]

I feel like at this point we should just assume that (since it's twilight) Volt's got no benefit to lying (we can't unhammer him, after all).

Also, if he admitted to being scum then we could scumhunt some more during twilight, helping town PRs target the right people.

Scumhunt more! Just throw stuff away if I'm scum (I'm not!), don't waste this time!

[chairs]

Volt: I'm not familiar with the "play a little scummy so I don't get mislynched" concept at all - is this normal?

For some people. Yuma did it as the doctor in B2B. It's not necessarily a good or bad strategy, it's just a strategy.

And I didn't try to be ULTRASCUMMY or anything, I just every now and then ignored a question I didn't think was important. People tend to find not answering questions scummy. I didn't want to be so scummy I got lynched (and I don't think I was, scum drove my wagon hard). That's the only scummy thing I did.

I scum-hunted and tried my best during the day. Believe every single thing I said. I never lied.

(THIS post is trying to discount scum saying tomorrow "well we can't use Volt's reads, he said he was being scummy!" Don't fall for that)

I'm certainly interested in going back to your words if you flip town, but mostly so I can figure out how we could have recognized town v town and not tunneled each other.

I feel like at this point we should just assume that (since it's twilight) Volt's got no benefit to lying (we can't unhammer him, after all).

Not quite true - he can waste our twilight and distract us. Also, if he admitted to being scum then we could scumhunt some more during twilight, helping town PRs target the right people. Also he could be trying to get clues about the identity of the real trackervig.

I hadn't thought of this.

[Jimmmmm]

There's zero reason to believe Voltaire right now; he could just be trying to goad the real trackerlante into claiming. So we'll see after the flip.

That would be pretty dumb seeing as we've already lynched him.

[Voltaire]

I'm certainly interested in going back to your words if you flip town, but mostly so I can figure out how we could have recognized town v town and not tunneled each other.

If you're town, then finding scum is actually fairly easily - scum likely hung back and decided late.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Volt, your reads list you posted a while back seemed driven by anger/frustration.

I get that, but sometime during twilight, think you could post your reads and rough reasons without the red haze of anger over them?  Even if it's the same list, just one that talks about why you think people are scummy that isn't only about your lynch.

I know I've been arguing that a lot of votes on you wagon were scummy, so I'm interested where you think I'm right and where I'm not.

[Voltaire]

Volt, your reads list you posted a while back seemed driven by anger/frustration.

I get that, but sometime during twilight, think you could post your reads and rough reasons without the red haze of anger over them?  Even if it's the same list, just one that talks about why you think people are scummy that isn't only about your lynch.

I know I've been arguing that a lot of votes on you wagon were scummy, so I'm interested where you think I'm right and where I'm not.

I have no idea where you think anger/frustration came into my reads. Here they are again, with lite explanation:

ash - perfectly set up my lynch. If I had been awake last night and claimed my real PR, he would have hammered me anyway. I stand by what I said - either ash is scum, or he's been easily the worst town player (see: all the stuff he did earlier in the day too)
chairs - I mean, it's my original scum read.
mcmc - has been very scummy lately (chiefly with his votes, but also no reads)
Robz - always an enigma
TA - was very towny at the start of the day, then I started to get worried by his seemingly being willing to hang back stance. If chairs is town, this makes TA look very scummy.
Jimmmm - needs to post more
Eevee - we're into town reads here, but Eevee is the weakest simply because TownEevee is WAY more helpful.
nkirbit - actually a bit of a null
lio - town
raerae/shraeye - town, documented elsewhere
UmbrageOfSnow - duh

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Thanks Volt.

Maybe I just thought that because I'd feel that way?  Projecting or something, sorry.  It's also good to know that these reads are undriven by emotion, and if you flip town, that they'll be something that we know isn't direct manipulation (although you're still fallible of course, but it means you aren't manufacturing something from nothing if you're town.)

Robz/Liopoil:  Why are you so sure he's scum still lying to us?  I mean, it's possible, but it really seems so likely to you guys you don't even want to talk and get last minute thoughts out of him in the event that he isn't lying?  You're that sure?  Really?

[Jimmmmm]

Robz/Liopoil:  Why are you so sure he's scum still lying to us?  I mean, it's possible, but it really seems so likely to you guys you don't even want to talk and get last minute thoughts out of him in the event that he isn't lying?  You're that sure?  Really?

Seems pretty scummy to me, like they're trying to make us think they really believed he was scum. Seems unlikely given how he's reacted.

[Twistedarcher]

Well, that sucks if it's true. But I don't blame Ash for the hammer -- it was NOT a derphammer. He made it very clear what his time constraints were, and that was the last chance to be online before the deadline. He needed to hammer someone there, either you or chairs.

I'm more frustrated with Volt than Ash, if it's true. When he was online, Chairs was at 6 votes, and Volt at 4, with Robz, myself, and AShersky on neither wagon. All three of us were saying that we believed that Chairs was VT, and that we didn't want to lynch him. Should have been obvious that we'd volte Voltaire if necessary, and that Volt NEEDED to do something to stop it. He didn't do anything, and I would have encouraged Ash to hammer before he was gone rather than risking a no-lynch.

[Voltaire]

Should have been obvious that we'd volte Voltaire if necessary, and that Volt NEEDED to do something to stop it. He didn't do anything, and I would have encouraged Ash to hammer before he was gone rather than risking a no-lynch.

What the heck could I have done? I'd made a case on chairs! If people weren't buying it, fine. Then it's up to them to direct town to their top scumread! I did that.