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[Robz888]

I don't know what mcmc is doing that is so scummy. Sure he is under posting a tad, but that's been a trend from him lately regardless of alignment (I know him to be busy IRL).

Eevee, on the other hand, is WAY under.

[ashersky]

I don't know what mcmc is doing that is so scummy. Sure he is under posting a tad, but that's been a trend from him lately regardless of alignment (I know him to be busy IRL).

Eevee, on the other hand, is WAY under.

Mcmc isn't scummy for lurking.

Eevee's been lurking everywhere, including other ongoing games, Goko, etc.  I don't think it's indicative of alignment.  I think being scum would be one of the few things that would keep him posting more often.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Let me just repeat myself, since this got mostly ignored.

Haven't read enough about the end stuff but man that's a weak case based in disagreements you have with robz.i mean really weak vote this late seems strange to me, simply because you made such a pretty case that inflated your reasoning.

What would you rather I do? Not vote and have us no-lynch? I'm trying to play/scumhunt, you appear to be hanging back on purpose.

We are not an hour from deadline, no reason to be in scramble mode, protecting my town reads is a perfectly good thing to be doing.

This doesn't really read like "scramble mode" to me.  It seems like exactly what all of us are/should be doing.  Isn't the big reason behind lurkers being anti-town that we need people to go out and look for scum, and that putting down votes and reads gives us something to analyze, both now and tomorrow when we can look at who was on or off what wagon?

I'm all for defending your town reads, that is perfectly towny, but voting for someone for voting your townread is much less so.

I think there is scum in the group of volt, chairs, nk.

Why?  What do this group have in common other than all being people that others have mentioned as potential lynch candidates?  To be fair, I have scumreads on chairs and nkirbit, so I wouldn't bet against you here, but where did this group come from?

I think you just made a decent slip. You are worried we are approaching deadline without a good wagon on a townie, robz is an easy target as there was some suspicion on him so you make a weak but pretty case, when I point out flaws in your case rather than defending it you take the stance "well I'm just worried about town and trying to scumhunt" you seem to care less that the case is bad and more that I find you scummy.

Alternatively, being worried that we are approaching deadline without a good wagon on someone you have a scumread on is a perfectly valid thing to worry about for town!  This is the kind of logic that makes equal sense if you assume he is scum or town, because you see him as scum, you're interpreting it as scum evidence.

I don't know that Robz is an easy target either.  Obviously, I'm the person that thinks he is the best target, but what makes him easier?  That he's been acting suspicious?

WHY DO WE KEEP DISMISSING POSTS FOR BEING "PRETTY"?!  This is bad logic, and a bad attack.  Scum wants things to be persuasive, town wants things to be persuasive. People are occasionally more persuaded by a good layout, and it's certainly easier to read.  That does not make a good layout either towny or scummy!

And finally, you should really notice that he was quoting and responding to Chairs immediately voting for him for making a case, not Mcmcsalot for defending Robz.

I find Mcmcsalot much scummier for this exchange.  I find Chairs somewhat scummier.  I'm pretty null on Voltaire.  He could be scum, could be town.

(Mafia is hard!  Everyone acts so suspiciously!)

Basically, I think Mcmcsalot's post on Volt reads much more like a scummy pushing of a wagon than Ash's case on TA, although following basically the same logic.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Rather, than Ash's case on TA's case...

Sorry for being confusing.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

So Chairs was the first person to agree to the soft deadline (although I notice a lot of people never commented on it, Chairs did).
Chairs made that sketchy, gut-only vote earlier today (noon) and promised a reread tonight.
Chairs hasn't posted since.
Chairs has posted in other threads since, at 10:50 P.M and 4:40 P.M.

He didn't seem to work towards trying to meet the deadline at all.

Do any of you think there's anything worth reading into this?  I know real life can happen, but he's been on and hasn't even been in to say "sorry, I didn't get that reread done."  If this weren't about defending a sketchy vote, I might be less suspicious, but I'm getting more okay with voting Chairs the more I think about it.

[ashersky]

I think our biggest issue is getting a lynch done.  The weekend looms and it'll really put a damper on things.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Well I'm going to bed.  But hopefully some people tomorrow can discuss things in light of the HARD deadline being Monday morning?

[Jimmmmm]

You know who else has been lurking? That Jimmmmm guy.

Yeah, I've kind of lost track of this game a little bit due to RL busyness. I'll try to do some re-reads when I can, hopefully tomorrow afternoon.

[Robz888]

You know who else has been lurking? That Jimmmmm guy.

Yeah, I've kind of lost track of this game a little bit due to RL busyness. I'll try to do some re-reads when I can, hopefully tomorrow afternoon.

Oh. YOU ARE PLAYING?

[Jimmmmm]

You know who else has been lurking? That Jimmmmm guy.

Yeah, I've kind of lost track of this game a little bit due to RL busyness. I'll try to do some re-reads when I can, hopefully tomorrow afternoon.

Oh. YOU ARE PLAYING?

Yeah. Sorry.

[Eevee]

Sad sad times, I caught the flu, just slept for 12 hours. On the plus side it probably means better availability for the weekend, which works well with the monday deadline. Anyways:

-I totally see the scummy feel about mcmc. I'm a by worried it's coming "too easy" though, as mcmc is generally a strong scum player. It really could just be the soave-family curse of being a prime day 1 mislynch whenever they are town.

-The Voltaire case I just don't see. Well, he isn't seeming overly towny to me either, but whenever someone is wagoned on for reasons I find unconvincing, I tend to read that player townier because scum manipulation is a real possibility.

-I wholeheartedly agree with TA about ash, my vote has been parked there for a reason. I disagree about giving him any town cred for stopping the insanity; that's actually exactly what I'd expect him to do if it was a scum gambit. Think about it, he got exactly what we wanted, why go on and risk it when he can just do this?

-I too had forgotten Jimm was even playing. Generally I think of him as a guy who wants to try hard and excel when scum, so this is a reluctant reminds me of bankers - towntell for Jimm, in my opinion anyways.

-Robz is a mystery to me, I think he has finally realized what his meta really is and is successfully muddying that up now.

-TA is someone I seem to agree with a lot. I feel he has always been town except for that one blitz game where we didn't agree, so I'm giving him a small town read, fully realizing similar thought processes are a shady basis for a read.

-Got nothing on nkirbit, seems to be playing a solid game that never gets you lynched day 1 (but is very valid for a townie too).

-Chairs I find on the scummier side, but it's a meta/gut thing and I can talk about innovation yet. Not a big deal though, I don't have anything groundbreaking there anyways.

preferred lynch:
ashersky

would and will participate if need be:
chairs, mcmc

two hours left and nolynch is the alternative:
I would really try to read how people react in a dire situation, but would seriously consider almost anyone, definitely robz and nkirbit before many others.

[Eevee]

Oh, forgot shraeye and raerae which is weird. Sorry you too!

I sort of agree with Snow about the tone shraeye seems to be taking towards him, but I really don't see any reason for scum to purposefully antagonize townies (which i still think snow is, this is as strong of a read I'll ever have day 1), so I guess it even makes shraeye a bit townier (I hadn't realized this before typing this out).

I usually think at least one or both of raerae and shraeye are scum (bias..), here they literally didn't even pop to mind when typing that long post. they both fall to the "would maybe lynch to avoid nolynch unless their reactions felt genuine", so essentially a null read as hopefully it doesn't go to that. Maybe I have no strong impressions about them because they've been questioning people a lot, not really answering that much themselves? I'm sorry to talk about you as "them", of course you are individuals but due to the claiming stance or whatever, I kind of have the same reads on both of you (which is pretty much the read I have on nkirbit).

[ashersky]

-I wholeheartedly agree with TA about ash, my vote has been parked there for a reason. I disagree about giving him any town cred for stopping the insanity; that's actually exactly what I'd expect him to do if it was a scum gambit. Think about it, he got exactly what we wanted, why go on and risk it when he can just do this?

preferred lynch:
ashersky

Really?  You've been scum with me multiple times now.  You know better.

[Eevee]

That's the problem with intentionally seeming scummy as town.. it's intentional, you can just as well do it as scum.

It's obviously only going to work once, and I've been observing and wondering when will you use your "free pass" (you sort of did with the fight against mcmc in mean girls, but not really). Well, with this being a yuma game people were pretty excited about, seems fitting you'd do it here.

I'm curious though, why should I know better? Can you explain it to me, why should I realize you are town? For this exercise, you may assume I'm town, regardless of what you think.

[ashersky]

That's the problem with intentionally seeming scummy as town.. it's intentional, you can just as well do it as scum.

It's obviously only going to work once, and I've been observing and wondering when will you use your "free pass" (you sort of did with the fight against mcmc in mean girls, but not really). Well, with this being a yuma game people were pretty excited about, seems fitting you'd do it here.

I'm curious though, why should I know better? Can you explain it to me, why should I realize you are town? For this exercise, you may assume I'm town, regardless of what you think.

I really just think that we've played in so many games now that I'd have a hard time convincing you of anything with a fake effort.

I'm not looking for a free pass.  I was ready to be lynched earlier today.  If you and TA manage it now, good for you (but you'll regret it on D2 if you guys are scumbuddies).  I refer back again to our VT argument in Masons and Monks, where we were both town.  I felt this was most reminiscent of that.

Intentionally scummy/odd as town was Bankers, if you recall.  I do think riling people up is a good way to flush out scum--both town and scum say things in the heat of the moment and they don't think it through.  Scum has something to hide, though, so if I can get something to slip, it's helpful.

Compare this to D1s in Mean Girls and Mafia Noir, my mafia MVP games.  Or compare it to Sea Hags, my first game as scum where I sucked.  Or Switch, where I also sucked.  I've definitely improved my scum game immensely.

Could I have decided to do a gambit on D1?  I guess.  But I think that's a bad idea.  See us in Mean Girls, with the timing of my fake claim.  Plus, how did my actions today in this game help my scum team overall?  Who could me my partners?  (I'd say you make sense.  Maybe chairs/nkirbit.)

In the end, the important question is "was it worth it to scum!ash and his teammates?"  That's the question I would ask myself if I was scum.  In this case, the answer is no.

[Eevee]

If it is a gambit, you never intend for it to go through. You intend for this to happen. That post was not convincing at all!

[ashersky]

If it is a gambit, you never intend for it to go through. You intend for this to happen. That post was not convincing at all!

So get some folks together and lynch me!

[Eevee]

If it is a gambit, you never intend for it to go through. You intend for this to happen. That post was not convincing at all!

So get some folks together and lynch me!

I am trying, yes.

[ashersky]

If it is a gambit, you never intend for it to go through. You intend for this to happen. That post was not convincing at all!

So get some folks together and lynch me!

I am trying, yes.

Here's a deal.  If you can get me to L-1, I'll hammer on Sunday night if we don't have scum to lynch.

[Eevee]

One thing about ash I'm noticing, it seems he is subtly trying to push "only scum Eevee would suspect me" without ever really explicitly saying he is finding me scummy. I feel whenever ash is addressing me, he is trying to bend me to his will and it certainly doesn't feel like he thinks we are on the same side, but when he is talking about me to others, he is (both reasonably and correctly) explaining why I'm probably town.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.13

Meanwhile on the second floor Mrs. White, Mrs. Scarlett and The Cop were about to peer into three bedrooms. They were spooooky! One was rrenaud's. No one wanted to go in there. Eventually Mrs. White volunteered.

"Do you want me to with you?" asked The Cop.

"Not on your life." said Mrs. White. "I don't trust either of you. You two go into those other two rooms while I check this one."

Each party guest slowly walked slowly to their doors. They all looked back at each other as they grasped the handles. Each guest took a step into the doorway and then a step back out looking at each other with suspicion. It was a pretty ridiculous scene.

"This is a ridiculous scene," said Professor Plum coming up the stairs. "What are you all doing?"

"What are you doing abandoning your post!" The Cop shouted.

"Oh Mrs. Peacock is driving me batty. Would any of you be willing to trade positions with me, I can't stand to be around her another second," Professor Plum said.

"I will," said Mrs. Scarlett. "Anything is better than traipsing around with a cop and this wacko," pointing at Mrs. White.

"Ha! You are just like my third husband," Mrs. White retorted.

"Third? How many husbands have you had?" asked Mrs. Scarlett.

"Mine or other women's?" came the response.

"Yours."

"Five."

"Five?" asked The Cop, a little in disbelief.

"Yes, just the five. Husbands should be like Kleenex: soft, strong and disposable," said Mrs. White.

ashersky (2): TA, Eevee
Voltaire (4): Robz, shraeye, chairs, mcmcsalot
Robz (1): Voltaire
chairs (1): nkirbit
Eevee: (1): raerae
mcmcsalot: (2) Snow, ashersky

Not voting: (2) liopoil, Jimmmm

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day1 ends July 22nd at 10:30 a.m. forum time.

[chairs]

Snow: Sorry, I got home and Civ5 happened.  I've been mildly active elsewhere, but deep rereads just don't look like they're going to happen for me unless I happen to have nothing going on tomorrow (and I'm pretty sure my family has something planned).

Ashersky: So your key position here appears to be "If I flip town, Eevee is scum." -- Am I understanding you correctly?

[mcmcsalot]

If it is a gambit, you never intend for it to go through. You intend for this to happen. That post was not convincing at all!

So get some folks together and lynch me!

I am trying, yes.

Here's a deal.  If you can get me to L-1, I'll hammer on Sunday night if we don't have scum to lynch.

Ugh...I mean really ash, too far. You really are taking away from any other actions of the day b shoving focus onto you. If you get through today we will debate lynching you again tomorrow, this whole "lynch me" thing won't work forever but if you distract us Long enough you will have sacrificed yourself to put scum in a good position which is something we know you to do(sacrifice to put your team in a better spot) I am changing my read on you because I strongly believe you just play to help your team which often involves your lynch, earlier your forcing of the flow o conversation was helping town, now it is detrimental.

That's my argument I tell myself to be okay with lynching ash. I sadly am more confident that he is hurting town than that he is scum.

vote: ash

[ashersky]

Snow: Sorry, I got home and Civ5 happened.  I've been mildly active elsewhere, but deep rereads just don't look like they're going to happen for me unless I happen to have nothing going on tomorrow (and I'm pretty sure my family has something planned).

Ashersky: So your key position here appears to be "If I flip town, Eevee is scum." -- Am I understanding you correctly?

Eevee, TA, and mcmc are my top scum reads.

[mcmcsalot]

Bleh, I didn't realize volt was that viable to getting lynched and I don't want to stop that from happening, he is my top scum read. So vote: volt

Also I guess as gets town points because eevee has slipped into my scum reads due to that fact that he seems more confused/suspicious of me robz and ash than I think he should be.