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Author Topic: Ironworks and Inheritance/Possession/Watchtower question  (Read 8509 times)

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Jeebus

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Re: Ironworks and Inheritance/Possession/Watchtower question
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2016, 10:21:34 am »
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Watchtower trashes, afaik, after gaining, no?

So I am confused why you don't get +1 card, +1 action?

Or does it trash before gaining?

No, you're right. But Ironworks has two instructions: 1) Gain a card, 2) Get bonus based on the card's type(s).
And Watchtower trashes immediately after gaining, so right after #1.
Transmute and Watchtower works the same way.

AdrianHealey

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Re: Ironworks and Inheritance/Possession/Watchtower question
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2016, 10:37:42 am »
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I find that very counterintuitive, though.

You get two if you gain. You gain, so you should get both action/card and then you trash.

That said, the ruling is different, but it's not the one that makes sense in my head.
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Chris is me

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Re: Ironworks and Inheritance/Possession/Watchtower question
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2016, 11:07:15 am »
+1

I find that very counterintuitive, though.

You get two if you gain. You gain, so you should get both action/card and then you trash.

That said, the ruling is different, but it's not the one that makes sense in my head.

This is what happens
1. Card is gained
2. look at card, determine bonuses, and apply them

When Watchtower is reacted, it occurs when you gain the card. The new order is this.
1. Card is gained.
2. Watchtower trashes the card.
3. Card is looked at, bonuses determined and applied.

You don't finish resolving a card before reactions to events triggered by the card occur. That would make no sense and things like Moat wouldn't work then. You react "just in time", and the reaction occurs immediately when the event that triggers it happens.
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Jeebus

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Re: Ironworks and Inheritance/Possession/Watchtower question
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2016, 11:07:40 am »
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I find that very counterintuitive, though.

You get two if you gain. You gain, so you should get both action/card and then you trash.

That said, the ruling is different, but it's not the one that makes sense in my head.

That's not how Dominion works though. Triggered stuff can interrupt. You don't just resolve the whole ability first and then do the thing that was triggered. For instance, from the Dark Ages rulebook:

"When you trash" abilities happen directly after the card is put into the trash, and can function in the middle of resolving effects for an Action card; for example, if a player plays Graverobber and uses it to trash a Cultist, he first draws three cards for trashing Cultist, then continues with resolving Graverobber and gains a card costing up to $8.

In that example, Cultist ("when you trash") interrupts Graverobber and draws cards.
In our case, Watchtower ("when you gain") interrupts Ironworks and trashes the card.

(An unrelated question is whether Ironworks cares about whatever it was that you trashed, or what that card is now, and the ruling is that it cares about what the card is now.)

AdrianHealey

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Re: Ironworks and Inheritance/Possession/Watchtower question
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2016, 11:32:09 am »
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That's the weird part: it ought to care about what you gained, regardless of it being in the trash by now.

But the ruling is different, fair znough.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Ironworks and Inheritance/Possession/Watchtower question
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2016, 12:44:34 pm »
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That's the weird part: it ought to care about what you gained, regardless of it being in the trash by now.

But the ruling is different, fair znough.

The key here, is that Ironworks says "if it is an..." and not "if it was an..."  It does care about what you gained, but it cares about what it is now, not what it was when you gained it.

Donald X.

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Re: Ironworks and Inheritance/Possession/Watchtower question
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2016, 12:59:47 pm »
+5

That's the weird part: it ought to care about what you gained, regardless of it being in the trash by now.

But the ruling is different, fair znough.
The weird part is that a card changed types, in the middle of you doing something no less.

Ironworks simply isn't phrased to take that kind of craziness into account.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Ironworks and Inheritance/Possession/Watchtower question
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2016, 02:12:56 pm »
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Fair enough! :)
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