A: Cop Shot B: Commute Shot C: Dissable Upper Blue A/B | | | | | A: Tracker Shot B: RB Shot C: Wiggle the Mouse | | | | | A: Weak Visitor Shot B: Doctor Shot C: Cop Switch Shot |
A: Card Draw B: Pull 3 Energy to Red C: Deck Monitoring S: Sabotage | | | | | | A: Status Print-out B: Replenish Central Energy C: Block NK | | | | | | A: Enable Card-Passing B: Pull 3 Energy to Blue C: Zone Monitoring S: Secret Hatch |
Welcome, player name!
You are a Townie!
Your QT for cards and Space Phase actions is Personal QT Location.
Please confirm in this QT as soon as possible; N0 will not begin until after everyone has confirmed.
You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Welcome, player name!
You are a Scum!
Your QT for cards and Space Phase actions is Personal QT Location.
Please confirm in this QT as soon as possible; N0 will not begin until after everyone has confirmed.
All actions (including the scum NK) must be given as commands in your personal QT.
You may also request during the day phase to be placed in the top half of the random player ordering for the following Space Phase.
The scum QT for plotting and scheming with your buddies is Scum QT Location.
You win when all town-aligned players are dead, or nothing can prevent that from happening.
/tag
I have big worries about open RMMs. I will look at the setup in more detail at some point.
/tag
I have big worries about open RMMs. I will look at the setup in more detail at some point.
I tried pretty hard to find a way to break it and didn't.
Don't credit me too much. I really didn't do much other than peek through and see if there were any wordings that could be fixed. I have no idea if it's balanced/breakable./tag
I have big worries about open RMMs. I will look at the setup in more detail at some point.
I tried pretty hard to find a way to break it and didn't.
Aha, I appear to have failed to acknowledge you and Haddock as my two consultants! Shall I wait till we're sure there aren't any embarassing sticking points left? ;-)
(I've changed very little since we went through it the other week).
I'll definitely play, though, when it comes round to it.
"Nobody leave the lower deck" does force scum to play secret hatches for NKs, which (if they don't get a lot of C cards) could be relevant quickly.
When will this open?
Cannot play until the 4th of May but the setup looks amazing :-)I thought this would be up your alley. I would prefer not to wait a month though.
Bump
Bump
Not much chance of getting sign-ups while the M100 buzz is going on, is there? :-(
Maybe I'll start picking up interested players as M100 people get killed and they want something else to fill the void? :-P
Cannot play until the 4th of May but the setup looks amazing :-)\in I guess I can play now ;-)
Are all energy pools empty at the start of the game? (if it is written somewhere, sorry :D)
I suck at these kinds of games, but meh, I'm looking for a game.
/Tag(in) whatever you do here
https://youtu.be/KjJe1rBdm9U
(not like anyone would remember me).
I suck at these kinds of games, but meh, I'm looking for a game.
/Tag(in) whatever you do here
https://youtu.be/KjJe1rBdm9U
(not like anyone would remember me).
I remember you!
/in. It would be rude not to!
Awaclus might be able to fill you in ;)
Also, Hi LaLight, i think I know you from MS???
Awaclus might be able to fill you in ;)
Were you in that one game I played on Mafia Universe?
Also, Hi LaLight, i think I know you from MS???
I've played some on MS, but I don't remember the guy with your nickname.. do you have the same there?
Welcome back ;)
Also, Hi LaLight, i think I know you from MS???
I've played some on MS, but I don't remember the guy with your nickname.. do you have the same there?
I go by LQ on MS.
Also, Hi LaLight, i think I know you from MS???
I've played some on MS, but I don't remember the guy with your nickname.. do you have the same there?
I go by LQ on MS.
Ah! Guys, i confirm one of the best and coolest players I've seen :)
Awaclus might be able to fill you in ;)
Were you in that one game I played on Mafia Universe?
Yer.
Awaclus might be able to fill you in ;)
Were you in that one game I played on Mafia Universe?
Yer.
Awaclus might be able to fill you in ;)
Were you in that one game I played on Mafia Universe?
Yer.
Well, I didn't pay much attention to that game in the first place and I stopped following it completely after I got lynched so I actually don't have any idea how well you played. :P
Would it help if I explain you the setup?Hey! Mafia setups are no jokes.
Two more for this to fill. I encourage anyone who understands the setup to sign up.
Two more for this to fill. I encourage anyone who understands the setup to sign up.
What if I don't but I am already signed up? :x
A: Cop Shot B: Commute Shot C: Dissable Upper Blue A/B | | | | | A: Tracker Shot B: RB Shot C: Wiggle the Mouse | | | | | A: Weak Visitor Shot B: Doctor Shot C: Cop Switch Shot |
A: Card Draw B: Pull 3 Energy to Red C: Deck Monitoring S: Sabotage | | | | | | A: Status Print-out B: Replenish Central Energy C: Block NK | | | | | | A: Enable Card-Passing B: Pull 3 Energy to Blue C: Zone Monitoring S: Secret Hatch |
1 more!
Gosh, I love Space Alert and this looks fantastic. I'm /in :)
I'm not new, but it's been several years, thanks for directing me over there.
I'm not new, but it's been several years, thanks for directing me over there.
Wow. I believe you last played in, what, Mafia 5? An insane game (actually RMMM at least, and perhaps bastard, by the standards we use now), that Galz and I were just discussing last night (in person!).
I'm not new, but it's been several years, thanks for directing me over there.
Wow. I believe you last played in, what, Mafia 5? An insane game (actually RMMM at least, and perhaps bastard, by the standards we use now), that Galz and I were just discussing last night (in person!).
It's ok if the game is over.I'm not new, but it's been several years, thanks for directing me over there.
Wow. I believe you last played in, what, Mafia 5? An insane game (actually RMMM at least, and perhaps bastard, by the standards we use now), that Galz and I were just discussing last night (in person!).
Also, wait, you're allowed to talk with users in person? Isn't that a rules violation or something? :P
We can talk about games that ended half a decade ago :)I think I should change my ruleset such that the first rule of my games is "Do not talk about this game."
We can talk about games that ended half a decade ago :)
/in
YOu should change the thread title to something like "1 spot left". That tends to attract people./in
Fake News!!!
Any real hammers?
It starts once MoatI think you confused it with Moan
screw it. /in
/out
/out
why??
I agree too!
Any recommendations on the best way to confirm with existing players that they're still in? We're just a few days short of it being 6 months since Haddock inned :-P
/in
I'm back, baby.
/in
I'm back, baby.
what baby?
In fact, YOU should sign in. Yes, you!
wow false, nvm way tooo complicated sorry, I thought this was the Falling thread.
/outoutotuout
Can I be an honorary NPC?
No, it's an offer to make guest appearances in poor humor and generally make a nuisance of myself with a real promise to not impact the game with any actual analysis or insight into what's going on.
I sorta expected silver to have a plan already since he was really hardcore before the game started.Yeah but he's scum and has to feign ignorance.
I sorta expected silver to have a plan already since he was really hardcore before the game started.
I don't remember anything about the setup
We have all known our alignments for more than a week. Except for Skumpy, who is excused.I sorta expected silver to have a plan already since he was really hardcore before the game started.
That would be less efficient because I didn't know my alignment before the game started, and the best way to play probably vary a lot between town and scumscum
sure, I could have read into it a week ago. I didn't :PAny comments on my suggestions regarding Space Phase play?
I agree about the upper room
By default, the scum NK can only reach those players who visit the Upper Deck of the ship during a given Space Phase.
S: Secret hatch: Scum may choose to play this room’s C action with “Secret Hatch” as the target. If at least Y+1 C cards are played this way during one Space Phase, the scum NK can reach players on the lower deck during this night's Mafia-Game Action Resolution Phase, where Y is the number of scum in the game. Use of “zone monitoring” in this turn-step does not block the scum C action here.
C: Wiggle the Mouse. At least one player must play a C in this zone at some point in each Space Phase to avoid a computer lock-out. If this condition is not met, actions in one of upper red/upper blue will be unavailable the following night (random, announced at start of next day phase).
Block the scum NK, If this action is performed at least N/2 times (rounded up), where N is the total number of players alive, the scum NK is blocked in this Space Phase.
One thing we should decide:Well. You cannot just have anyone do it because people would first need to reach the upper deck, and lifts can easily be manipulated by scum if they know who wants to go there. So you would need people to claim upper/lower deck, which is pretty much exactly what we don't want scum to know.QuoteC: Wiggle the Mouse. At least one player must play a C in this zone at some point in each Space Phase to avoid a computer lock-out. If this condition is not met, actions in one of upper red/upper blue will be unavailable the following night (random, announced at start of next day phase).
This is mostly valuable because the Cop shot is in the upper red. Do we try to get this done, and if so, how?
The downside of having a particular player do it is that it makes them a viable NK target. But we could assign the most scum-read person at the EoD (who hasn't been lynched). If it they choose not to, we'll know the following day and lynch them. If I'm not missing something, then that sounds pretty good.
Well. You cannot just have anyone do it because people would first need to reach the upper deck, and lifts can easily be manipulated by scum if they know who wants to go there. So you would need people to claim upper/lower deck, which is pretty much exactly what we don't want scum to know.
There is also thisIt seems pretty pointless. If N/2 town players are on the lower deck, the scum NK is virtually blocked anyway. We could do more useful things with all those actions instead.Quote from: Lower White C ActionBlock the scum NK, If this action is performed at least N/2 times (rounded up), where N is the total number of players alive, the scum NK is blocked in this Space Phase.
Which can only be used successfully through coordination; if we don't coordinate it, it's an action thrown away. But that seems too hard to do on day 1 where everyone starts at the top.
vote: e
I don't think we should coordinate N1. But I am open to being convinced otherwiseWe shouldn't exactly coordinate, but there are some things that should be avoided and other things that should be prioritized, see my previous post.
I don't think we should coordinate N1. But I am open to being convinced otherwiseWe shouldn't exactly coordinate, but there are some things that should be avoided and other things that should be prioritized, see my previous post.
That depends on what coordinating means.Except what you should do depends on where you are in player order. We probably want to grab the Tracker shot in Upper White, but that will only go to a player that is high in player order.
If we conclude that we want several things to be done we could coordinate like so: everyone randoms a number from 1 to 10; if they get 1 or 2 they do X, if they get 3 to 5 they do Y, if they get 6 they do Z else they do whatever they want.
Yes; we could incorporate player order, though.
I have a feeling that players won't do it because many don't like randomness but I also have a feeling that the optimal play probably includes doing it.
Yes; we could incorporate player order, though.
I have a feeling that players won't do it because many don't like randomness but I also have a feeling that the optimal play probably includes doing it.
I think randomness hurts mafia a lot more than town early on. As the game progresses and we catch scum, we should get more and more organized. But random is good for town early I believe
Also, we should catch scum. Like this: vote: iguanaiguanastrong case. vote: iguana
This is a Wagons! I can't get behind.
To reiterate my proposal –
This night (and this night only, because it stops working once we're not all at the top) the player with the highest votes at the EoD should wiggle the mouse. There is no mechanism in the game that can stop them, and it is not a good target for scum because that player is the highest lynch target at that point, so we're glad if they've been killed. If they are in fact scum it's doubly good, because then scum has to do a pro-town thing. There is also an enforcement mechanism: we'll know whether wiggle the mouse has been used, and we can lynch the player if it hasn't.
To reiterate my proposal –
This night (and this night only, because it stops working once we're not all at the top) the player with the highest votes at the EoD should wiggle the mouse. There is no mechanism in the game that can stop them, and it is not a good target for scum because that player is the highest lynch target at that point, so we're glad if they've been killed. If they are in fact scum it's doubly good, because then scum has to do a pro-town thing. There is also an enforcement mechanism: we'll know whether wiggle the mouse has been used, and we can lynch the player if it hasn't.
Except what you should do depends on where you are in player order. We probably want to grab the Tracker shot in Upper White, but that will only go to a player that is high in player order.
We could do something with player order, but the problem is that not everyone has the same cards, so we can't actually plan what each person in player order will do.
[3) The three lifts operate independently, and jam separately.That clarification was very helpful by the way. I actually wondered that, read the setup post, and concluded that it was supposed to say that all lifts jam at the same time.
I don't disagree. But that means it probably goes to player 4 or 5, and I still consider that high in player order.Except what you should do depends on where you are in player order. We probably want to grab the Tracker shot in Upper White, but that will only go to a player that is high in player order.
And this is where I strongly disagree. The first players in order are the ones who know their lift movements can't be jammed, so they should be the ones to get down to the lower decks and charge up the pools - someone on the upper deck will get the tracker/cops sooner or later during the round.
So what I would have in mind is something like:Unless I got something wrong, the central lift would be jammed in your example at the time player 3 tries to use it. That is, unless 3 + 4n players use the lift movement in the first round, which seems like a nightmare to coordinate.
Round 1: 1st Player in order lifts down, 2nd player goes Red, 3rd player wiggles mouse.
Round 2: 1st Player replenishes central pool, 2nd players lifts down, 3rd player lifts down.
Round 3: 1st player gets a Print, 2nd player fills red. 3rd player replenishes central pool.
It's boring, but it gets the job done, doesn't risk any lift jams, doesn't risk any energy exhaustion in red for night 1
The two other big questions in my mind are:1. The only one who benefits from us discussing what we're going to claim now is scum. That discussion should wait until D2.
1. Do we all do a full claim every day, and if so, in what order? Faust is against it, I imagine. (after all, if scum is trying to sabotage actions and make night kills, there're gonna be gaps in history whereas there could've been a proven 3-action night. On the other hand, it tells scum where are we are and who's vulnerable to the kill)
2. We should be trying to figure out what scum wants to do tonight. Do they blow up upper blue twice, or try to lift down, or what, and how do we respond?
But these can wait for a more opportune time for discussion...
I don't disagree. But that means it probably goes to player 4 or 5, and I still consider that high in player order.Except what you should do depends on where you are in player order. We probably want to grab the Tracker shot in Upper White, but that will only go to a player that is high in player order.
And this is where I strongly disagree. The first players in order are the ones who know their lift movements can't be jammed, so they should be the ones to get down to the lower decks and charge up the pools - someone on the upper deck will get the tracker/cops sooner or later during the round.
So what I would have in mind is something like:Unless I got something wrong, the central lift would be jammed in your example at the time player 3 tries to use it. That is, unless 3 + 4n players use the lift movement in the first round, which seems like a nightmare to coordinate.
Round 1: 1st Player in order lifts down, 2nd player goes Red, 3rd player wiggles mouse.
Round 2: 1st Player replenishes central pool, 2nd players lifts down, 3rd player lifts down.
Round 3: 1st player gets a Print, 2nd player fills red. 3rd player replenishes central pool.
It's boring, but it gets the job done, doesn't risk any lift jams, doesn't risk any energy exhaustion in red for night 1
I agree that the status printout would be very helpful, but it also doesn't hurt to get two. It's unrealistic to expect all our plans to succeed, because the lift jamming can lead to you doing something you weren't planning to.
The two other big questions in my mind are:1. The only one who benefits from us discussing what we're going to claim now is scum. That discussion should wait until D2.
1. Do we all do a full claim every day, and if so, in what order? Faust is against it, I imagine. (after all, if scum is trying to sabotage actions and make night kills, there're gonna be gaps in history whereas there could've been a proven 3-action night. On the other hand, it tells scum where are we are and who's vulnerable to the kill)
2. We should be trying to figure out what scum wants to do tonight. Do they blow up upper blue twice, or try to lift down, or what, and how do we respond?
But these can wait for a more opportune time for discussion...
2. What scum wants to do depends on what town wants to do. If we coordinate, they can sabotage. Otherwise they'd just wreak some random havoc.
The Lift counter resets every roundOk, forgot about that.
2. Well, the SkumPlan will be tricky to sabotage unless a performer themselves is scum, in which, case, the suspect pool narrows considerably. Alternatively, (as I now am realizing) a scum going early could try and shift responsibility to a later scum, to do their task for them, but now there's a possibility that lift-usage would clog the efforts; going early is the only way to ensure success. As for past that...Scum has 12 actions tonight. One's a night kill. What would you do with the other 11, faust? It can't be all random havoc, not as long as there printouts to dissuade them from going after nasty game-actions and not as long as there's a threat of claiming D2. So what then do you do? Question's open to anybody, actually.Generally speaking I'm not in the habit of handing out strategy advice to scum.
First, I will reiterate that I don't think Wiggling the Mouse is pro-town. More thoughts to come later.
Someone will do it, someone will.No we don't. Why are you all so hyper-focused on wiggling the mouse? It has two outcomes, one that is bad for town and the other that is bad for scum, and probably to equal degrees. So why should we waste our time doing - statistically speaking - nothing?
we need a hero
How do you think preventing scum from doing... what? Using doctor? Potentially making cop worse? ... is as bad as preventing town from using cop? That's like saying ninja is as good as tracker. Ninja only makes tracker a bit worse.Guaranteed Cop results are amazing. This is what we're getting. Once blue is busted, we just coordinate to get as many Cop shots as possible and just run away with the game. Also this is not like a Tracker/Ninja relation; the mere potential of Cop switching makes Cops completely useless unless we have some Status Printouts, which is another layer of trust.
Someone will do it, someone will.No we don't. Why are you all so hyper-focused on wiggling the mouse? It has two outcomes, one that is bad for town and the other that is bad for scum, and probably to equal degrees. So why should we waste our time doing - statistically speaking - nothing?
we need a hero
Guaranteed Cop results are amazing. This is what we're getting. Once blue is busted, we just coordinate to get as many Cop shots as possible and just run away with the game. Also this is not like a Tracker/Ninja relation; the mere potential of Cop switching makes Cops completely useless unless we have some Status Printouts, which is another layer of trust.
... what?Someone will do it, someone will.No we don't. Why are you all so hyper-focused on wiggling the mouse? It has two outcomes, one that is bad for town and the other that is bad for scum, and probably to equal degrees. So why should we waste our time doing - statistically speaking - nothing?
we need a hero
Disagree. Scum always have more options than town because of their NK, so reducing the powers available each night is more harmful to town than scum.
Besides, according to your argument it can't hurt!
PPE:
I feel like faust is changing the reasons for his argument on the fly, which feels unfaustian. Also, if a busted upper blue is as useful as he claims, I feel like town!faust wouldn't hand that strat to scum so easily.
Vote: faust
Ah, the Cop switch requires a target.... who woulda thunk?Guaranteed Cop results are amazing. This is what we're getting. Once blue is busted, we just coordinate to get as many Cop shots as possible and just run away with the game. Also this is not like a Tracker/Ninja relation; the mere potential of Cop switching makes Cops completely useless unless we have some Status Printouts, which is another layer of trust.
Ok, I get your thought process now, but I think you're wrong that the possibility of switching results makes cops useless. It is pretty unlikely that Mafia hits the right target -- 2/13 with one shot in the first night -- so according to the rule of Bayes, a cop result is still pretty strong evidence.
There's also deck monitoring, which makes it risky for scum to go into the blue room, so using cop switch is not free.
Can I be an IC now?
You may also request during the day phase to be placed in the top half of the random player ordering for the following Space Phase.
Actually does mafia have daychat? If yes you get a bit more town points.I already asked in my QT, and the answer was no.
Can I be an IC now?
Tomorrow I'll be dead anyway!Can I be an IC now?
For today, sure. Tomorrow, no
Saying "moving blue is scummy" is all well and good, but the only way to determine if someone has moved blue is to get the lower blue C-action, which is the same as scum's enable lower-deck NK action, which means that we can't enforce it unless we move blue, but then we get false positives.Well, yes, but everyone who used the lower blue C action should have some information to share, so we could catch someone in a lie who claimed that. Of course usual claiming problems arise.
4. Which "strat" did I hand to scum?
Err... but not wiggling the mouse does not guarantee breaking upper blue. That was the whole point I made earlier... not wiggling the mouse is 50% good and 50% bad, so overall null. I concede that it's a bit above null knowing that Cop switch is targeted. Or it might not be... because status printout isn't as good if Cop switch is targeted.4. Which "strat" did I hand to scum?
If breaking Upper Blue is so good for town, then scum definitely want to Wiggle the Mouse to avoid that. I feel like town!faust would have sat on that idea for much longer.
As an aside, can I just say that I really enjoyed your use of quotation marks.
Yeah, my only point was that if moving blue is scummy, then town has no way of reasonably detecting moving blue...so on that count moving blue is less scummy.Saying "moving blue is scummy" is all well and good, but the only way to determine if someone has moved blue is to get the lower blue C-action, which is the same as scum's enable lower-deck NK action, which means that we can't enforce it unless we move blue, but then we get false positives.Well, yes, but everyone who used the lower blue C action should have some information to share, so we could catch someone in a lie who claimed that. Of course usual claiming problems arise.
While there is some truth to that, it is only true as long as the blue pool still holds power, and these are only two units. That means that after the first 2 shots we take from upper blue, we'd have to redirect energy from the common pool to blue that could go to red instead.Yeah, my only point was that if moving blue is scummy, then town has no way of reasonably detecting moving blue...so on that count moving blue is less scummy.Saying "moving blue is scummy" is all well and good, but the only way to determine if someone has moved blue is to get the lower blue C-action, which is the same as scum's enable lower-deck NK action, which means that we can't enforce it unless we move blue, but then we get false positives.Well, yes, but everyone who used the lower blue C action should have some information to share, so we could catch someone in a lie who claimed that. Of course usual claiming problems arise.
Additionally there are 10 town players, and 6 useful one-shot roles...now sure cop is better than doctor. But if everyone goes cop, then we're giving up doctor for no reason.
Oh, I reread the set-up while writing that post...each power can be used max-once per PHASE not per ROUND. Yeah, Doctor shots are less useful then I thought at the beginning of the post. We can get 3 cop-shots, 3 roleblocks, and 3 Trackers every night (and some commuters potentially). So, yeah, I think it may be not worthwhile to redirect energy to blue.While there is some truth to that, it is only true as long as the blue pool still holds power, and these are only two units. That means that after the first 2 shots we take from upper blue, we'd have to redirect energy from the common pool to blue that could go to red instead.Yeah, my only point was that if moving blue is scummy, then town has no way of reasonably detecting moving blue...so on that count moving blue is less scummy.Saying "moving blue is scummy" is all well and good, but the only way to determine if someone has moved blue is to get the lower blue C-action, which is the same as scum's enable lower-deck NK action, which means that we can't enforce it unless we move blue, but then we get false positives.Well, yes, but everyone who used the lower blue C action should have some information to share, so we could catch someone in a lie who claimed that. Of course usual claiming problems arise.
Additionally there are 10 town players, and 6 useful one-shot roles...now sure cop is better than doctor. But if everyone goes cop, then we're giving up doctor for no reason.
Yeah, my only point was that if moving blue is scummy, then town has no way of reasonably detecting moving blue...so on that count moving blue is less scummy.
2) So everyone's clear: we're ALL vulnerable to the scum kill tonight. Getting to the lower deck means, if you want, you'll be safe the next night (unless Secret Hatched).
2) So everyone's clear: we're ALL vulnerable to the scum kill tonight. Getting to the lower deck means, if you want, you'll be safe the next night (unless Secret Hatched).
Oh, I see why. Thanks for clarifying that.
This means that there isn't actually any downside to choosing a particular player to wiggle the mouse, if we want that.
If we try to coordinate or really optimize night actions at all, we'll spend all day talking about how best to do it, then lynch a random person.That D1 hate is getting seriously tiresome.
Which actually for D1 might not be that bad.
2) So everyone's clear: we're ALL vulnerable to the scum kill tonight. Getting to the lower deck means, if you want, you'll be safe the next night (unless Secret Hatched).
Oh, I see why. Thanks for clarifying that.
This means that there isn't actually any downside to choosing a particular player to wiggle the mouse, if we want that.
I think Skumpy is wrong here. All the movement takes place BEFORE the actions resolve, so if someone went to the lower deck they would be protected that night from the nk.
If we try to coordinate or really optimize night actions at all, we'll spend all day talking about how best to do it, then lynch a random person.That D1 hate is getting seriously tiresome.
Which actually for D1 might not be that bad.
2) So everyone's clear: we're ALL vulnerable to the scum kill tonight. Getting to the lower deck means, if you want, you'll be safe the next night (unless Secret Hatched).
Oh, I see why. Thanks for clarifying that.
This means that there isn't actually any downside to choosing a particular player to wiggle the mouse, if we want that.
I think Skumpy is wrong here. All the movement takes place BEFORE the actions resolve, so if someone went to the lower deck they would be protected that night from the nk.
NK affects anyone who's visited the upper deck during Space Phase. Which is everybody.
I don't think your plan works beyond just checking whether someone used weak visitor. We're limited by the batteries...in addition we would need some people in red and some people in blue for it to work (because otherwise we may have to cross the ship and get 1 total cop/wv shot on that night).that should say "get at least some players to the lower level". I don't think we need everyone down there...but enough to make it tough on scum (or at least force them to burn actions/cards to open the airlock).
And of course, we'll need to recharge the central batteries.
And we're agreeing at that point to leave several players available for nks.
All-in-all I'd rather we just try to wiggle the mouse, but not talk about who's doing it after night 1. For night1 it doesn't really matter who does it, but we should definitely agree who is doing it, since we sacrifice little by doing so (that player can still grab an action, or go to lower decks), and potentially gain a good deal. I do think the best bet is for someone to volunteer for it, so that we know that player has a "C" card.
Anyways, I think our best bet for coordinating night actions is for someone to post what they think good actions are (so that players who aren't as keen on mechanics can play reasonably, oh look I did that already), and someone to volunteer to wiggle the mouse night 1 (I'll do it, unless there is some severe objection).
I mean, actually breaking the set-up really seems against the spirit of the game. I personally think that excessive coordination will harm us more than help us. Everyone announcing a weak visitor target at the end of the day isn't a bad idea, if anyone is going to use that action. I feel like I'd rather get printout, tracker, cop, roleblock, and commuter shots. and then get to the lower level to force scum to likely miss some shots tomorrow.
I understand the desire for control, but I think control ultimately really helps scum and hurts town in the vast majority of cases.
Not particularly. But we have reached the end of theory talk mostly and should start to focus on our scumhunting.If we try to coordinate or really optimize night actions at all, we'll spend all day talking about how best to do it, then lynch a random person.That D1 hate is getting seriously tiresome.
Which actually for D1 might not be that bad.
I think it is just hard for me to look for scum tells in a wash of theory talk. Not so for you?
Here's my current town-to-scum, to get us started:
silverspawn
gkrieg
EFHW
theorel
e
LaLight
luckat
RR
Haddock
Skumpy
Awaclus
Jelly
iguana
I ate a fortune cookie today with a fortune that said to "Unveil your ideas and act on them", so I'm going to believe in that divine ethnic sign.Also, this is my new favorite mafia quote.
One thing though: You seem to be misunderstanding Status Print-Out. It does not tell us who did what action, only which actions were being done.
I still stand by my suggestion in #201 for assigning the first 3 players specific objectives in order to take care of the key maintenance, while allowing the rest of the players to have fun. But nobody's commenting on it and it saddens me because it makes me feel unwanted. Rest of this post will half be me restating it, half feedback on others.
3rd Wiggles, lifts down, and replenishes White
Wiggling the Mouse: Why this was ever a topic of conversation, I don't know. Someone needs to. There have been multiple ideas for how to make sure it gets done. I say we go with one, and don't even consider not wiggling - that's dumb.
Okay, Lifts, v2.This is unnecessary. If everyone plays at least one lift movement, then the chance that there is a lift that's not used at all is extremely low. And this is the only scenario that your plan is preventing.
I agree with Skumpy that we should direct the first players in order, because if not scum just takes the first lifts. So
First player goes Red – Lift – B
Second player goes Blue – Lift – B
Thid player goes Lift – A – B
... if they can.
Everything else is up to each player's discretion, but do keep the restriction in mind. If p2 uses the blue lift in the second round, then p3 to 5 can't, etc. I think tomorrow we should do more elaborate plans with randomized numbers, but not yet. They become better if more players are at the bottom part.
There's no real downside to doing this because the first players are going to use lift anyway if we plan nothing, except then all three might decide to take the white one and fewer get there. Similarly, more elaborate planing is bad because a) then scum knows exactly who is at the bottom, and b) they can exploit the resctions to make our lifts fail.
And no-one wiggle the mouse. Any objections?
Okay, Lifts, v2.I still completely object to no one wiggling mouse. I think Red getting blocked is terrible for town, while Blue getting blocked is only marginally bad.
I agree with Skumpy that we should direct the first players in order, because if not scum just takes the first lifts. So
First player goes Red – Lift – B
Second player goes Blue – Lift – B
Thid player goes Lift – A – B
... if they can.
Everything else is up to each player's discretion, but do keep the restriction in mind. If p2 uses the blue lift in the second round, then p3 to 5 can't, etc. I think tomorrow we should do more elaborate plans with randomized numbers, but not yet. They become better if more players are at the bottom part.
There's no real downside to doing this because the first players are going to use lift anyway if we plan nothing, except then all three might decide to take the white one and fewer get there. Similarly, more elaborate planing is bad because a) then scum knows exactly who is at the bottom, and b) they can exploit the resctions to make our lifts fail.
And no-one wiggle the mouse. Any objections?
This is unnecessary. If everyone plays at least one lift movement, then the chance that there is a lift that's not used at all is extremely low. And this is the only scenario that your plan is preventing.
I think mass-Weak Visitoring is a a plan that might very well end in desaster.yeah... but no-one was suggesting mass WW. I think we can do nice things with forcing the second and third scummiest players to both the scummiest person and figuring out a way to make lying hard. We can check for everything, up/down, color, action, and even target (with tracker), we just have to figure out how many people we make do what and how we check exactly to make lying hard.
Also for your plan to work 3 players must have both a lift and a "B" action
Okay, Lifts, v2.I still completely object to no one wiggling mouse. I think Red getting blocked is terrible for town, while Blue getting blocked is only marginally bad.
I agree with Skumpy that we should direct the first players in order, because if not scum just takes the first lifts. So
First player goes Red – Lift – B
Second player goes Blue – Lift – B
Thid player goes Lift – A – B
... if they can.
Everything else is up to each player's discretion, but do keep the restriction in mind. If p2 uses the blue lift in the second round, then p3 to 5 can't, etc. I think tomorrow we should do more elaborate plans with randomized numbers, but not yet. They become better if more players are at the bottom part.
There's no real downside to doing this because the first players are going to use lift anyway if we plan nothing, except then all three might decide to take the white one and fewer get there. Similarly, more elaborate planing is bad because a) then scum knows exactly who is at the bottom, and b) they can exploit the resctions to make our lifts fail.
And no-one wiggle the mouse. Any objections?
Also for your plan to work 3 players must have both a lift and a "B" action, and given a random 3 players there's only like a 50% chance that they all have those 2 cards. And you'd like them to have another card reducing probability even further.
Additionally, third player should obviously do Lift-B-A (or better would be Lift-B-B). Since those central actions are going to be taken, and if central has 1 energy left players 1 and 2 are completely wasting their turns.
Worth noting that since it's a coin-flip whether this works if they're town...and any of them can be scum, and no way is scum refilling our energy. So, it would be good for some other players to consider refilling at least central energy, and maybe Red.
I feel like you're over-stating the ability we have to get around. Moving 1 zone takes 1 phase. Getting from Red to Blue takes 2 phases of the game. Getting from lower red to upper white also takes 2 phases.
Now obviously we shouldn't all be going up the lifts to get powers, but some people should. If red and blue are not blocked, someone can lift-power-lift, and be able to make a choice regarding risking nk again next turn. If one of them is blocked, that choice is removed completely...for no reason because we could've just wiggled the mouse this turn. So, as of this moment, I'm still planning on wiggling the mouse.
Additionally, if I'm one of the first 3 players, just pretend I'm not on the list, and I will not get in the way of the above proposed lift-actions (since wiggling the mouse necessarily prevents me from doing it).
To do this weak-visitoring requires people to be able to do it. And as of night 2 there's no way to guarantee that anyone can do it...I'd guess it is out of reach for about 1/4 of town, and only available phase-3 for about 2/3 of town, so good luck getting even 2 people to actually use weak visitor (besides requiring the cards to do so, which if someone spent their only lift or only A this turn, there's a decent chance (~30%) they have no Lift or A next turn).This is unnecessary. If everyone plays at least one lift movement, then the chance that there is a lift that's not used at all is extremely low. And this is the only scenario that your plan is preventing.
?
The advantage of the plan over everyone does what they want is that a) more people will reach the bottom half and b) we avoid too many people using refresh. It's not about using every lift at least once.QuoteI think mass-Weak Visitoring is a a plan that might very well end in desaster.yeah... but no-one was suggesting mass WW. I think we can do nice things with forcing the second and third scummiest players to both the scummiest person and figuring out a way to make lying hard. We can check for everything, up/down, color, action, and even target (with tracker), we just have to figure out how many people we make do what and how we check exactly to make lying hard.
I don't see how it will make more people reach the bottom half. I very much doubt that too many people use refresh because most people won't manage to even reach the lower deck.This is unnecessary. If everyone plays at least one lift movement, then the chance that there is a lift that's not used at all is extremely low. And this is the only scenario that your plan is preventing.
?
The advantage of the plan over everyone does what they want is that a) more people will reach the bottom half and b) we avoid too many people using refresh. It's not about using every lift at least once.
Well I can always say "sorry, I don't have the cards for that". Besides it's hard enough to agree on a "scummiest person", let alone second and third. I also think you are underestimating severely how difficult it is to coordinate once we are in different parts of the ship.QuoteI think mass-Weak Visitoring is a a plan that might very well end in desaster.yeah... but no-one was suggesting mass WW. I think we can do nice things with forcing the second and third scummiest players to both the scummiest person and figuring out a way to make lying hard. We can check for everything, up/down, color, action, and even target (with tracker), we just have to figure out how many people we make do what and how we check exactly to make lying hard.
I don't see how it will make more people reach the bottom half.
So what? Someone else will go red lift, blue lift instead...I don't see how it will make more people reach the bottom half.
Because it makes the first three players go red lift, blue lift, white lift, as supposed to white lift, white lift, white lift.
Think about WTM for a minute. It either blocks UR (upper red) or UB.I absolutely think two uncertain Cop results are more valuable than one certain result + X, especially considering that an uncertain result is made certain by checking the other result...
If it blocks UB it means cop results are guaranteed sane.
If it blocks UR it means we can't access cop results.
If WTM is used twice and we have full access on two days, it means a player might go there twice and get an uncertain cop result both times, giving us 2 uncertain cop results. If WTM is not used it means the equivalent play is to get one certain cop result plus the next best action available. So two uncertain cop results are supposed to be more valuable than 1 certain result plus another action? No, come on. Even if you don't believe in anything useful coming out of WW, this is still not worth it.
The bottleneck for what we can do in the ship is turns and cards. Limiting number of rooms, a resource which is not the bottleneck, in exchange for better rooms, is a good thing.
ThisThink about WTM for a minute. It either blocks UR (upper red) or UB.I absolutely think two uncertain Cop results are more valuable than one certain result + X, especially considering that an uncertain result is made certain by checking the other result...
If it blocks UB it means cop results are guaranteed sane.
If it blocks UR it means we can't access cop results.
If WTM is used twice and we have full access on two days, it means a player might go there twice and get an uncertain cop result both times, giving us 2 uncertain cop results. If WTM is not used it means the equivalent play is to get one certain cop result plus the next best action available. So two uncertain cop results are supposed to be more valuable than 1 certain result plus another action? No, come on. Even if you don't believe in anything useful coming out of WW, this is still not worth it.
The bottleneck for what we can do in the ship is turns and cards. Limiting number of rooms, a resource which is not the bottleneck, in exchange for better rooms, is a good thing.
By limiting the number of rooms, you are increasing the number of turns it takes for a player to get somewhere useful. Turns, as you yourself pointed out, are a bottleneck.
Good. So what are everyone's scumreads?
Why Haddock?
because wagons!But iguana is the better wagon!
because wagons!But iguana is the better wagon!
Why not?because wagons!But iguana is the better wagon!
why?
I sorta expected silver to have a plan already since he was really hardcore before the game started.
Unfortunately I am having a really hard time getting interested in this game. @Faust can you give an example of me being interested in theory talk? The narrative side of mafia has always been what appeals to me, so the only exciting post in this thread was Skumpy's to me.I just think you are generally more excitable as town, or town-like.
Unfortunately I am having a really hard time getting interested in this game. @Faust can you give an example of me being interested in theory talk? The narrative side of mafia has always been what appeals to me, so the only exciting post in this thread was Skumpy's to me.PLOT A COURSE! SHIELDS TO MAXIMUM! And then somebody bring the head of one of those no-good science deniers! *shakes fist*
First player goes Red – Lift – B
Second player goes Blue – Lift – B
Thid player goes Lift – A – B
... if they can.
Everything else is up to each player's discretion, but do keep the restriction in mind. If p2 uses the blue lift in the second round, then p3 to 5 can't, etc. I think tomorrow we should do more elaborate plans with randomized numbers, but not yet. They become better if more players are at the bottom part.
Worth noting that since it's a coin-flip whether this works if they're town...and any of them can be scum, and no way is scum refilling our energy. So, it would be good for some other players to consider refilling at least central energy, and maybe Red.
Think about WTM for a minute. It either blocks UR (upper red) or UB.
If it blocks UB it means cop results are guaranteed sane.
If it blocks UR it means we can't access cop results.
If WTM is used twice and we have full access on two days, it means a player might go there twice and get an uncertain cop result both times, giving us 2 uncertain cop results. If WTM is not used it means the equivalent play is to get one certain cop result plus the next best action available. So two uncertain cop results are supposed to be more valuable than 1 certain result plus another action? No, come on. Even if you don't believe in anything useful coming out of WW, this is still not worth it.
The bottleneck for what we can do in the ship is turns and cards. Limiting number of rooms, a resource which is not the bottleneck, in exchange for better rooms, is a good thing.
I don't see how it will make more people reach the bottom half.
Because it makes the first three players go red lift, blue lift, white lift, as supposed to white lift, white lift, white lift.
oh, yes. Actually, I think we should move just swap lines 2 and 3 to have the white pool replenish in between the others.
Unfortunately I am having a really hard time getting interested in this game. @Faust can you give an example of me being interested in theory talk? The narrative side of mafia has always been what appeals to me, so the only exciting post in this thread was Skumpy's to me.PLOT A COURSE! SHIELDS TO MAXIMUM! And then somebody bring the head of one of those no-good science deniers! *shakes fist*
Hi RRHi iguana man
I'm a town this game, what about you?I am a confused town, but town nonetheless
I'm a town this game, what about you?I am a confused town, but town nonetheless
Well, the last time he got really engaged, he wasn't town. He was survivor! I was hoping he'd get into the puzzle here, too, but Rewind was actually the only time I remember seeing him get into something.Why not?because wagons!But iguana is the better wagon!
why?
Err.. well seriously though. I expect town!iguana to be more engaged in theory stuff here and generally to be more excited. His opening post:I sorta expected silver to have a plan already since he was really hardcore before the game started.
implies that he thought about how specific players will approach the game, this is a scum trait.
I'm a town this game, what about you?I am a confused town, but town nonetheless
Have you ever played this weird board game?
If you don't like the game, then scum-hunt. Ask questions or something.I'm a town this game, what about you?I am a confused town, but town nonetheless
Have you ever played this weird board game?
Especially ss and faust as they are smart and can mimic good setup talk being the most contributors
Especially ss and faust as they are smart and can mimic good setup talk being the most contributors
Thanks. Wait...
Nope, but it seems fun. I'm just a little behind the learning curve ???I'm a town this game, what about you?I am a confused town, but town nonetheless
Have you ever played this weird board game?
What i think that at least one of the hard setup talkers is scum
Think iguana is town here.
Ok I reread the setup twice and there’s no prs and other alignments. Interestin. vote: Burning Skull’s favorite reptile
What i think that at least one of the hard setup talkers is scum
On a more serious note: I've been wondering/suspecting the same. Not sure on my order of the other 3 though, especially since I've never played with them. Or like half the rest of the people here.
Ok I reread the setup twice and there’s no prs and other alignments. Interestin. vote: Burning Skull’s favorite reptile
Okay so calling ss/faust scummy and giving a reason then voting me (top wagon) for no reason is actually scummy. Like legit scummy.
Vote: LL
UhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhThink iguana is town here.If you’re scum i’m ready to unvote.
UhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhThink iguana is town here.If you’re scum i’m ready to unvote.
Ok I reread the setup twice and there’s no prs and other alignments. Interestin. vote: Burning Skull’s favorite reptile
Okay so calling ss/faust scummy and giving a reason then voting me (top wagon) for no reason is actually scummy. Like legit scummy.
Vote: LL
Think iguana is town here.
What are you tho? If you’re scum i’m ready to unvote.
By the way it’s a lot of fun spectatin ganes knowing the alignments? i mostly mean Archetype’s one. After that one i thought i can obviously tell who’s scum. But here it seems to be less data to go from
Think iguana is town here.
What are you tho? If you’re scum i’m ready to unvote.
By the way it’s a lot of fun spectatin ganes knowing the alignments? i mostly mean Archetype’s one. After that one i thought i can obviously tell who’s scum. But here it seems to be less data to go from
In that case, here's some data for you. I swear on anything you'd like me to swear on that I'm being 100% truthful:
My first is in listen, but not in hear
My second's in outcry, but not in quiet
My third's in unwanted, but not in loved
And my fourth is in common, but not in rare
What is my alignment?
You’re loan!
You’re loan!
Good. That means Awaclus won't lynch me.
A new breed appears - townscum!Think iguana is town here.
What are you tho? If you’re scum i’m ready to unvote.
By the way it’s a lot of fun spectatin ganes knowing the alignments? i mostly mean Archetype’s one. After that one i thought i can obviously tell who’s scum. But here it seems to be less data to go from
In that case, here's some data for you. I swear on anything you'd like me to swear on that I'm being 100% truthful:
My first is in listen, but not in hear
My second's in outcry, but not in quiet
My third's in unwanted, but not in loved
And my fourth is in common, but not in rare
What is my alignment?
+1Unfortunately I am having a really hard time getting interested in this game. @Faust can you give an example of me being interested in theory talk? The narrative side of mafia has always been what appeals to me, so the only exciting post in this thread was Skumpy's to me.PLOT A COURSE! SHIELDS TO MAXIMUM! And then somebody bring the head of one of those no-good science deniers! *shakes fist*
Or they could claim not to have a lift, or a B, or a red, or their only B was their lift or Red. I am sure that if you look at your hand there is some combination of moves and actions that you can't do. (because it takes a very particular hand to be able to do either Red or Blue + Lift + A, B, OR C). Just because you can do it doesn't mean everyone can (I'm certain that I can't do one of the actions that has been requested of the first 3 players, though I won't say which one).
Worth noting that since it's a coin-flip whether this works if they're town...and any of them can be scum, and no way is scum refilling our energy. So, it would be good for some other players to consider refilling at least central energy, and maybe Red.
Central energy, sure, but Red will require no more than 4 energy N1, and one fill is enough if it goes through. Scum has to refill Red energy if its assigned because we'll know if they didn't, and nothing else could possibly prevent them from doing so. I don't know what exactly scum will plan for tonight - probably some copswitching and shutting down upper blue...but I'd be surprised if at least one doesn't do something that's pro-townie.
...
Disagree here. Printouts will at least tell us if anybody copswitched or not. The odds are good that copping will be accurate N1, and the risk of a bad result isn't worth risking no cops at all N2. I'd rather assign someone to Wiggle the Mouse (like player 4) than to give it to Theorel or lowest-poster, but I'm less enthusiastic about it than I am about assigning pool-filling duties, and am willing to go with something else.
Dama hard
Lalight is not making sense. Are you at Davos, Lalight? Is it on a mountain, by any chance?
Who have we not heard from much? Luckat is being prodded. Haddock is frustrated. I had no idea Awaclus was playing until just now. CheesyJelly is relatively quiet. We have promises from gkrieg and RR.
Of course one or more of the busy posters will be scum. Just like one or more of the lurkers, as well. That's not a very informative approach.
Vote count please
I had no idea Awaclus was playing until just now.
I know it's an unusual proposition, but you could just read the setup and then participate!I had no idea Awaclus was playing until just now.
It was a bit pointless to participate in setup talk when I didn't have even the faintest recollection of what the setup was.
I know it's an unusual proposition, but you could just read the setup and then participate!I had no idea Awaclus was playing until just now.
It was a bit pointless to participate in setup talk when I didn't have even the faintest recollection of what the setup was.
Regarding LaLight not making sense:Right thanks. What does loan mean?Dama hard
Regarding LaLight not making sense:Right thanks. What does loan mean?Dama hard
I don't think that's particularly good, but we can't establish a consensus, so that's what will happen.
Some people should refresh pools, all people should try to get to the lower deck, nobody should wiggle the mouse.
vote: Awaclus
vote: Awaclus
vote: silverspawn
I don't think that's particularly good, but we can't establish a consensus, so that's what will happen.
Some people should refresh pools, all people should try to get to the lower deck, nobody should wiggle the mouse.
Why aren't we wiggling the mouse anymore?
In which case of course it makes perfect sense for all others to not wiggle.I don't think that's particularly good, but we can't establish a consensus, so that's what will happen.
Some people should refresh pools, all people should try to get to the lower deck, nobody should wiggle the mouse.
Why aren't we wiggling the mouse anymore?
I don't think we had a consensus on whether or not to wiggle. I was under the impression that Theorel was planning to wiggle.
Yeah, but Theorel's not nobody.In which case of course it makes perfect sense for all others to not wiggle.I don't think that's particularly good, but we can't establish a consensus, so that's what will happen.
Some people should refresh pools, all people should try to get to the lower deck, nobody should wiggle the mouse.
Why aren't we wiggling the mouse anymore?
I don't think we had a consensus on whether or not to wiggle. I was under the impression that Theorel was planning to wiggle.
Awaclus, are you voting for anyone?
Well yes now, I can see that. I get that you're not a big talker, but this kind of nonsense is why people have a problem with you.Awaclus, are you voting for anyone?
Yes.
What's with the ii wagon? Why isn't there a Haddock-Wagon? I thought one was starting up. vote: HaddockWhat's with the ii wagon is that ii is scum.
If one setup-discussing player has to be scum, I think I lean silver atm...but I'm not convinced that any setup-player is necessarily scum.
null-ish on the rest (maybe leaning a bit town on e).
Cheesy-Jelly (though he is funny).My work here is done!
OK, my turn. I'm gonna get some serious backlash.Pretty self-aware. Usually a scum trait.
Disagree. Scum always have more options than town because of their NK, so reducing the powers available each night is more harmful to town than scum.I like the first half of this post, even if it's probably not really all that true. (we outnumber scum, being the main reason why).
Besides, according to your argument it can't hurt!
PPE:
I feel like faust is changing the reasons for his argument on the fly, which feels unfaustian. Also, if a busted upper blue is as useful as he claims, I feel like town!faust wouldn't hand that strat to scum so easily.
Vote: faust
I hate THIS D1. Way too much theory talk and I'm exhausted and too busy for it.If we try to coordinate or really optimize night actions at all, we'll spend all day talking about how best to do it, then lynch a random person.That D1 hate is getting seriously tiresome.
Which actually for D1 might not be that bad.
Oh look, someone agrees.If we try to coordinate or really optimize night actions at all, we'll spend all day talking about how best to do it, then lynch a random person.That D1 hate is getting seriously tiresome.
Which actually for D1 might not be that bad.
I think it is just hard for me to look for scum tells in a wash of theory talk. Not so for you?
self-aware or overdefensive. take your pick.
Ouch.
I dislike this vote quite a lot but I don't know why.Ok I reread the setup twice and there’s no prs and other alignments. Interestin. vote: Burning Skull’s favorite reptile
Okay so calling ss/faust scummy and giving a reason then voting me (top wagon) for no reason is actually scummy. Like legit scummy.
Vote: LL
Okay, my previous post on good night actions was too stream of consciousness, and I had a rule wrong. So, let's try again:
Players 1, 2, and 3 should do the following in order (if you can):
1: Red-Lift-B
2: Blue-Lift-B
3: Lift-B-A
#375 is a post I really like. Thank you, Theorel.
II is a better vote than Haddock, from what I can see, but I've previously shown myself to be blind to scum!Haddock.
Vote: iguanaiguana
If one setup-discussing player has to be scum, I think I lean silver atmWhy?
Someone will do it, someone will.No we don't. Why are you all so hyper-focused on wiggling the mouse? It has two outcomes, one that is bad for town and the other that is bad for scum, and probably to equal degrees. So why should we waste our time doing - statistically speaking - nothing?
we need a hero
Disagree. Scum always have more options than town because of their NK, so reducing the powers available each night is more harmful to town than scum.
Besides, according to your argument it can't hurt!
PPE:
I feel like faust is changing the reasons for his argument on the fly, which feels unfaustian. Also, if a busted upper blue is as useful as he claims, I feel like town!faust wouldn't hand that strat to scum so easily.
Vote: faust
What's with the ii wagon? Why isn't there a Haddock-Wagon? I thought one was starting up. vote: HaddockWhat's with the ii wagon is that ii is scum.
If one setup-discussing player has to be scum, I think I lean silver atm...but I'm not convinced that any setup-player is necessarily scum.
null-ish on the rest (maybe leaning a bit town on e).
#375 is a post I really like. Thank you, Theorel.
II is a better vote than Haddock, from what I can see, but I've previously shown myself to be blind to scum!Haddock.
Vote: iguanaiguana
maybe we should stop the theory talk, otherwise an angry faust might pay you a visit. Get it? Ok it's a bad pun...
SRy guys last day of wef and i will be available soon. Now too dama to even dama
...roleblock can be taken precisely once per phase. (unless I'm super misunderstanding the setup)
*except the part about roleblocking - what exactly do we expect to gain out of roleblocking? Because I expect to lose a lot more.
...
Because you're giving advice I disagree with, and one of the potential reasons for that is that you're scum. This setup is opaque enough that I think scum could easily give bad advice disguised as trying to help the town.If one setup-discussing player has to be scum, I think I lean silver atmWhy?
It seems like he's following the authority that he's suspicious of.That's just how government works!
Voting for the same person that faust is voting for is not the same as following his authority. Faust doesn't own that wagon. I've contributed little to set-up talk or theory, so I'm going to contribute my vote, and a wagon of one helps nobody.I've gotta say that I found that whole case on you super fabricated. And I mean, i scumread you before. now i kinda don't want to lynch you anymore.
Voting for the same person that faust is voting for is not the same as following his authority. Faust doesn't own that wagon. I've contributed little to set-up talk or theory, so I'm going to contribute my vote, and a wagon of one helps nobody.
Let's start another. vote: eFor any reason other than random?
He's not a leading wagon and he's non-present.
Which is true for others also, but still.
I don't really like CJ or e at the moment.
I don't really like CJ or e at the moment. Let me find an alternative.iguana is an alternative.
Wait I meant...never mind. No point in taking the bait.I don't really like CJ or e at the moment.
Then you should support lynching them! Especially e.
Not really for me, I have a trusting nature towards that reptile.I don't really like CJ or e at the moment. Let me find an alternative.iguana is an alternative.
Well, vote: RRWell, nothing I can do about that.
Voting for the same person that faust is voting for is not the same as following his authority. Faust doesn't own that wagon. I've contributed little to set-up talk or theory, so I'm going to contribute my vote, and a wagon of one helps nobody.I've gotta say that I found that whole case on you super fabricated. And I mean, i scumread you before. now i kinda don't want to lynch you anymore.
Also, if town gets the roleblock they should definitely consider not using it, at least N1, unless they have a strong scumread.First off: yeah, Theorel's probably right about this. But the roleblock has to be targeted. If I got it, I would probably roleblock a player early in the order because they're the ones who shouldn't be using a power ::)
At L-1 should you claim the cards you have?Don't see how that helps.
At L-1 should you claim the cards you have?I can't see why that's useful?
Can you see why it's un-useful?At L-1 should you claim the cards you have?I can't see why that's useful?
Question for Silver: So what's your opinion on e voting for cheesy?
Y'know what? I like unexpected changes.
vote: e
On the other hand, Awaclus never votes correctly.
Y'know what? I like unexpected changes.
vote: e
I am home and I don’t like this. Were you voting for ii?
On the other hand, Awaclus never votes correctly.
That's a lie. Vote: Skumpy
It doesn't matter who I vote, they're gonna be town.
Vote: Skumpy
I don't like voting right after Lalight but I also don't like skumpy's post. At all.
What is a failed card action? Does that mean no one else can use that action that round? I couldn't find this in the setup info. Also, do you have to play 3 cards?
Which reminds me: How does roleblocking the roleblockers work?
Vote Count 1.4
iguanaiguana (3): gkrieg13, LaLight, CheesyJelly
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
Skumpy (3): Haddock, Awaclus, Roadrunner7671
CheesyJelly (3): theorel, 2.71828....., EFHW
2.71828..... (2): silverspawn, Skumpy
Roadrunner7671 (1): faust
Not Voting (1): Luckat
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
D1 ends at 17.35 forum time on Monday 29th January.
What's scummy about Skumpy's posts? Need to look at e and CJ.Nothing.
The thing about LAlight is that he can always say some words that look towny in every game. This is why he's rarely lynched. So you have to look at his votes. And I think his voting has been scummy this game more than other players. Could other people at least look at it?That's not true at all... LaLight is super obvious as any alignment, and the only thing obfuscating this here is that he was drunk for a majority of his posts.
I don't really like CJ or e at the moment. Let me find an alternative."I think it will look rather scummy for me to join the main wagons at this stage."
Lalight, Haddock and gkreig seem to be my three favorite choices, in that order."Let's list a bunch of people that have been under suspicion already and see where that goes."
"Here's an argument for my stance that does not require me to express any opinion about this game."Not really for me, I have a trusting nature towards that reptile.I don't really like CJ or e at the moment. Let me find an alternative.iguana is an alternative.
At L-1 should you claim the cards you have?"Oh, someone voted me. Let#s distract everyone with a completely pointless theory discussion."
Weak Doctor: EFHW
everyone should do this now.
Weak Doctor: EFHWI will prepare some tea and marzipan! (aka space rations #73). I will reciprocate by visiting you should the opportunity arise.
everyone should do this now.
Well, you know, let's build a case on RR, because as usual you will ignore my suspcions until I post some rambling post with a lot of quotes, after which everyone suddenly decides it's a good idea to sheep me. Sometimes I wish you could just assume that I made such a post whenever I vote for someone .... [/unquote]
Seriously?
It doesn't matter who I vote, they're gonna be town.
So you won't bus your partners?
I've only played one game with the guy...but I think I agree with this. My make-or-break for LaLight comes from: he's played scum with me. Is he going to townread me hard, albeit drunk, and then switch later in the day because he thinks there's a wagon that could be built on me? Gonna say that's something more likely from town than scum. For now.The thing about LAlight is that he can always say some words that look towny in every game. This is why he's rarely lynched. So you have to look at his votes. And I think his voting has been scummy this game more than other players. Could other people at least look at it?That's not true at all... LaLight is super obvious as any alignment, and the only thing obfuscating this here is that he was drunk for a majority of his posts.
I would agree with the case on RR if it was anyone else who did this stuffI'm saying that if I use Weak Visitor, it will be on EFHW.Weak Doctor: EFHW
everyone should do this now.
Uh, what? Do you want us to WW her or do you want to force her to WW someone?
Well, you know, let's build a case on RR, because as usual you will ignore my suspcions until I post some rambling post with a lot of quotes, after which everyone suddenly decides it's a good idea to sheep me. Sometimes I wish you could just assume that I made such a post whenever I vote for someone...I don't really like CJ or e at the moment. Let me find an alternative."I think it will look rather scummy for me to join the main wagons at this stage."Lalight, Haddock and gkreig seem to be my three favorite choices, in that order."Let's list a bunch of people that have been under suspicion already and see where that goes.""Here's an argument for my stance that does not require me to express any opinion about this game."Not really for me, I have a trusting nature towards that reptile.I don't really like CJ or e at the moment. Let me find an alternative.iguana is an alternative.At L-1 should you claim the cards you have?"Oh, someone voted me. Let#s distract everyone with a completely pointless theory discussion."
I'm quoting this because it's just as funny as it was 12 hours ago, and we all need to laugh sometimes in life.On the other hand, Awaclus never votes correctly.
That's a lie. Vote: Skumpy
Weak Visitor: faust... he says while picking the same target as EFHW :P
Surprise....
Btw: Try to pick as many different people for the WV as possible
Weak Visitor: faust... he says while picking the same target as EFHW :P
Surprise....
Btw: Try to pick as many different people for the WV as possible
Weak Visitor: faust... he says while picking the same target as EFHW :P
Surprise....
Btw: Try to pick as many different people for the WV as possible
Probably should've PPE'd that.
Okay, my previous post on good night actions was too stream of consciousness, and I had a rule wrong. So, let's try again:
Players 1, 2, and 3 should do the following in order (if you can):
1: Red-Lift-B
2: Blue-Lift-B
3: Lift-B-A
What's scummy about Skumpy's posts? Need to look at e and CJ.
I won't feel bound to any fixed set of moves no matter my position in player order.Then I sincerely hope you're not in the top 3 and your family messages from home are intercepted. Do you wanna elaborate or no?
What's scummy about Skumpy's posts? Need to look at e and CJ.
What isn't scummy about Skumpy's posts?
is Awaclus always this horrible? Every game I've seen him in his reads have been atrocious...and [he] assumes at all times that he is correct, when I've yet to see even a single case of that being true.
All my concerns have already been expressed, so no, not really.I won't feel bound to any fixed set of moves no matter my position in player order.Then I sincerely hope you're not in the top 3 and your family messages from home are intercepted. Do you wanna elaborate or no?
That I've made, or at least joined, a good case against RR
I've been lurking hardcore, later tonight I'll come on and actually contribute a little.
UhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhThink iguana is town here.If you’re scum i’m ready to unvote.
I don't really like CJ or e at the moment. Let me find an alternative.
At L-1 should you claim the cards you have?
Can you see why it's un-useful?At L-1 should you claim the cards you have?I can't see why that's useful?
Quote from: Teproc[], how many times have you been mislynched in your mafia career ?Absolutely love this argument.
Also I think [] should claim his target sooner rather than not sooner.
We should follow the claim order and not have all this nonsense going on.
QuoteThe part about how [] isn't a good lynch today but becomes a better lynch the longer he's alive.Quote from: Roadrunner7671Agree with []’s analysis
Which part ? Because it's not entirely clear to me what conclusion [] has arrived to.
QuoteWhat a joke.?
Think i am kinda done with this game.
Quoteput in effortI haven't been doing too much of that and i'm almost done rereading him :P not too much to go off of.
Not sure where my vote is, but I want on on Datswan. Vote: Datswan
QuoteI haven't claimed anything yet. That was DatSwan you're thinking of.Oh, right. You've just been scum read for some reason or another by most people at some point in time.
Quote from: TeprocWhy are they dead? Who helped kill them the most? Who wanted them dead? Those are the things that would be cool to know.Quote from: Roadrunner7671I'm gonna go reassess [...] and [...] to try and get a better grasp on them.
I'm not saying you shouldn't do that, but you are aware that they are both dead, right ?
Quote from: Teprocvote: RRThe reasoning behind this vote is pretty convincing ::)
QuoteRoadRunner (35 posts): Seems to be flaily town for D1.I'm not flailing!
I mean, it's a mathematic impossibility of me getting scum thrice in a row.
vote: CJIt isn't really.
Ok let's lynch them. Using a joke for a serious vote is scumscum.
It kind of is this close to the deadline.Why?
Not at all.That I've made, or at least joined, a good case against RR
How did RR respond to the case?
Not at all.That I've made, or at least joined, a good case against RR
How did RR respond to the case?
Here, I made an easy-to-use template. Just copy-paste into your post!
[b]Vote: Roadrunner[/b]
Because it's not actual information about whether someone is scum, so assuming town plays even somewhat well, they shouldn't do it.It kind of is this close to the deadline.Why?
It still holds this way.Because it's not actual information about whether someone is scum, so assumingIt kind of is this close to the deadline.Why?townscum plays even somewhat well, they shouldn't do it.
I'm not in favor of lynching RR now. I've been right about him a couple of times before so I want to make the decision later, also he hasn't set off any alarm bells yet.You know, postponing a lynch without actually giving a read is much more scummy than that thing you pointed out about Jelly.
But I know you'll want me to elaborate, so here:It doesn't actually tell them very much in this regard...because if a player has been top-deck at all during the space phase they're eligible for kills. And there's no way to know if those players go top-deck tomorrow night. And scum can safely assume that the first 3 players made lower-deck since they have best opportunity to get there.
I think the cons outweigh the pros. Your writeup earlier left out one con that is we're telling mafia which players will be on the lower deck.
Faust is kinda really extreme about every scumread this game don’t trmember him being this way beforeHe seems the same as he was in M111, where he was town and lynched town for no good reason.
I'm voting Skumpy because "I couldn't possibly be scum AGAIN" is nonsense and they know it. That's not how probability works. I also think all of Skumpy's posts since then have been scummy, including the whole "Well I don't really want to play anyway..." thing.Because it's not actual information about whether someone is scum, so assuming town plays even somewhat well, they shouldn't do it.It kind of is this close to the deadline.Why?
Voting RR for RR things is probably a towntell for a new (?) player like Skumpy.But you are voting for him.
request vote count
Weak Visitor: RoadrunnerIf I had tunnel vision, I'd still be voting for you, wouldn't I?
Vote: CJ
silver's right, that's a scummy vote.
Faust seems to have tunnel vision this game.
Since before he did his "probable towntell".Voting RR for RR things is probably a towntell for a new (?) player like Skumpy.But you are voting for him.
request vote count
It is necessary for you to move your vote to RR.Since before he did his "probable towntell".Voting RR for RR things is probably a towntell for a new (?) player like Skumpy.But you are voting for him.
request vote count
I've already said I'll move my vote as necessary.
Skumpy wagon is terrible...I'll need to look back to see who's voting there.
why? It makes sense for me to do it right now. Did I do it as scum in the past?I'm not in favor of lynching RR now. I've been right about him a couple of times before so I want to make the decision later, also he hasn't set off any alarm bells yet.You know, postponing a lynch without actually giving a read is much more scummy than that thing you pointed out about Jelly.
I'm voting Skumpy because "I couldn't possibly be scum AGAIN" is nonsense and they know it.
wv: faustThat's 4 people having picked me. I thought the idea was to spread out? And why pick me anyway, I'm going to die soon.
Voting RR for RR things is probably a towntell for a new (?) player like Skumpy.
request vote count
I'm voting Skumpy because "I couldn't possibly be scum AGAIN" is nonsense and they know it. That's not how probability works.
[sarcasm] I apologise for daring to humour into my original short explanation. [/sarcasm]
I'm not in favor of lynching RR now. I've been right about him a couple of times before so I want to make the decision later, also he hasn't set off any alarm bells yet.You know, postponing a lynch without actually giving a read is much more scummy than that thing you pointed out about Jelly.
Oh my god too much setup chat.
I simply can't catch up with this today. I'll try tonight.
What i think that at least one of the hard setup talkers is scum
I know it's an unusual proposition, but you could just read the setup and then participate!I had no idea Awaclus was playing until just now.
It was a bit pointless to participate in setup talk when I didn't have even the faintest recollection of what the setup was.
I did, but at that point you had already said we should stop with the setup talk.
There's no way I'm contributing in setup talk, which I think is pretty clear. I'll go along with a plan or do my own thing that seems good, and maybe find some time to give the mouse a little wiggle.
Players 1, 2, and 3 should do the following in order (if you can):100% in favor of ordering the first three players with tasks however there are some energy issues with this scenario. Currently White has 3, Red has 2, Blue has 2. Red and Blue can only hold a maximum of 3 white holds a max of 5. Round one makes sense, I assume one whit energy gets spent on tracker by players 4-14. The issue comes in round two, Player 3 is filling white energy pool up to 5, a player 4-14 probably wants to grab another tracker shot and it possible mafia grabs a roleblocker here which would drop the white energy pool to 3. Then in round 3 Player 1 is taking all three energy out of white into red, Player 2 now wastes his card more importantly even if no energy was spent in white during phase two Player two would now be taking the 2 leftover energy from white into red, this means there is no energy left in white for Player 3 to print a status report. Player 2 and Player 3 have to be switched.
1: Red-Lift-B
2: Blue-Lift-B
3: Lift-B-A
Uh oh ok. I voted faust for being active but then i got the reason to vote for ii so i a staying thereBut there is no reason that I can see listed. He then asks if Iguana is even a top wagon and requests a vote count. Its all a very scummy exchange from lalight and looked to me like drunk scum joining what he saw to be a wagon, not realizing it was started by the person he was previously voting for and then passing it all off as well my first vote was for "just being active".
Vote Count 1.3
Haddock (1): Roadrunner7671
iguanaiguana (4): faust, gkrieg13, LaLight, CheesyJelly
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
silverspawn (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (1): 2.71828.....
Skumpy (1): Haddock
CheesyJelly (3): silverspawn, Skumpy, theorel
Not Voting (2): Luckat, EFHW
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
D1 ends at 17.35 forum time on Monday 29th January.
Vote Count 1.5
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
iguanaiguana (1): CheesyJelly
Skumpy (4): Haddock, Awaclus, LaLight, Roadrunner7671
CheesyJelly (4): theorel, 2.71828....., EFHW, gkrieg13
2.71828..... (2): silverspawn, Skumpy
Roadrunner7671 (1): faust
Not Voting (1): Luckat
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
D1 ends at 17.35 forum time on Monday 29th January.
Regarding LaLight not making sense:Dama hard
Post Count
77 - faust (17)
65 - silverspawn (13)
37 - LaLight (11)
30 - Skumpy (0)
27 - EFHW (5)
20 - Awaclus (7)
19 - theorel (1)
17 - Roadrunner (6)
15 - CheesyJelly (2)
15 - Iguana (3)
13 - e (1)
9 - Haddock (5)
7 - gkrieg (4)
2 - mcmcsalot (0)
What you said about LaLight is all really reasonable but I reread him and I don't see it. Why? Uh, tone...
Hey mcmcsalot. Good to have you aboard! Your read of me and my motivations are wrong, but I'm not playing well so I can't blame you.
What does the number in parenthesis mean?
No the deadline is tomorrow.
Vote Count 1.4
iguanaiguana (3): gkrieg13, LaLight, CheesyJelly
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
Skumpy (3): Haddock, Awaclus, Roadrunner7671
CheesyJelly (3): theorel, 2.71828....., EFHW
2.71828..... (2): silverspawn, Skumpy
Roadrunner7671 (1): faust
Not Voting (1): Luckat
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
D1 ends at 17.35 forum time on Monday 29th January.
D1 is extended by one day, and will now end at 17.30 forum time on Tuesday 30th January.[/color]
vote count?
Vote Count 1.6
CheesyJelly (6): theorel, 2.71828....., EFHW, gkrieg13, silverspawn, iguanaiguana
Roadrunner7671 (2): faust, Skumpy
Skumpy (4): Awaclus, LaLight, Roadrunner7671, CheesyJelly
Not Voting (2): mcmcsalot, Haddock
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
D1 ends at 17.30 forum time on Tuesday 30th January.
now I scumread Skumpy for those series of posts where he tells he doesn't care about being lynched. That's mostly scumtell even though it usually looks like town oneMeh I think this is a null tell, more over it's a personality tell and what I have gotten from Skumpy is confident, doesn't take the game too seriously but is focused and prone to adding some wit into his posts. Kinda like a TWM light.
because when you're town you feel more responsible for your team. I mean I too have not a lot of time and effort to give to the game, but my lynch would be terrible for town. I signed up, I play as best as i can
now I scumread Skumpy for those series of posts where he tells he doesn't care about being lynched. That's mostly scumtell even though it usually looks like town oneMeh I think this is a null tell, more over it's a personality tell and what I have gotten from Skumpy is confident, doesn't take the game too seriously but is focused and prone to adding some wit into his posts. Kinda like a TWM light.
But if we are really going for generic scum tells...because when you're town you feel more responsible for your team. I mean I too have not a lot of time and effort to give to the game, but my lynch would be terrible for town. I signed up, I play as best as i can
ATE
because when you're town you feel more responsible for your team. I mean I too have not a lot of time and effort to give to the game, but my lynch would be terrible for town. I signed up, I play as best as i can
now I scumread Skumpy for those series of posts where he tells he doesn't care about being lynched. That's mostly scumtell even though it usually looks like town oneMeh I think this is a null tell, more over it's a personality tell and what I have gotten from Skumpy is confident, doesn't take the game too seriously but is focused and prone to adding some wit into his posts. Kinda like a TWM light.
Hey mcmcsalot. Good to have you aboard! Your read of me and my motivations are wrong, but I'm not playing well so I can't blame you.
Well we got time, what do you think of my lalight case. Also who is your top scum read other than skumpy and why?
I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
Then they don't.I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
Wait what if people can't do this?
Then they don't.I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
Wait what if people can't do this?
I'm going to add to silver's comment and say even if you don't have those cards try to use the listed lift as best you can.Then they don't.I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
Wait what if people can't do this?
Ok, seems easy for scum who don't want to do it to just say "I didn't have those cards" then.
I guess it's still net helpful even granted that scum have an easy out from following it?
Where’s the case on cj?
#375 is a post I really like. Thank you, Theorel.silver thought this post was scummy.
II is a better vote than Haddock, from what I can see, but I've previously shown myself to be blind to scum!Haddock.
Vote: iguanaiguana
I'm going to add to silver's comment and say even if you don't have those cards try to use the listed lift as best you can.Then they don't.I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
Wait what if people can't do this?
Ok, seems easy for scum who don't want to do it to just say "I didn't have those cards" then.
I guess it's still net helpful even granted that scum have an easy out from following it?
Because one of the major things this helps with is knowing when those players are using the lift...this allows a few extra players to make it to lower levels (i.e. player 4 can easily do so knowing when those lifts are in use). So, if you don't have a "C" for instance, but can still go Blue-Lift...go ahead and do that. You can do "B" and hope there's energy from someone else filling central late in phase 2.
I'm going to add to silver's comment and say even if you don't have those cards try to use the listed lift as best you can.Then they don't.I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
Wait what if people can't do this?
Ok, seems easy for scum who don't want to do it to just say "I didn't have those cards" then.
I guess it's still net helpful even granted that scum have an easy out from following it?
Because one of the major things this helps with is knowing when those players are using the lift...this allows a few extra players to make it to lower levels (i.e. player 4 can easily do so knowing when those lifts are in use). So, if you don't have a "C" for instance, but can still go Blue-Lift...go ahead and do that. You can do "B" and hope there's energy from someone else filling central late in phase 2.
Ok and there is no way to try to make sure say the 4th thrust 6th players also get down to the lower level? Or catch scum if they fail?
wasn;t deadline supposed to be in 2 hours before I got swapped in...where are yallI read that we had another day and went to bed...
Then we get to the dirty science denying Lalaight, he struck me as scummy through out my read.
So I also think cheesy jelly is quite scummy as does most of town.
This really accurately shows scum!lalight and scum!cheesyjelly using town!faust mistaken d1 case as cover to push a lynch through on town!iguana. Iv'e rode many a misplaced town!faust wagon through to lynch as scum myself.And then these reads are validated with seemingly unjustified townreads on me and iguana.
Ridiculous quick wagon on skumpy once faust left the iguana train as scum desperately tries to avoid the CJ lynch going through. The E wagon formed much more naturally, there could be something there to look at in future days, he is not striking me as towny as normal could be due to his low posts though.As well as Skumpy. I think you're assuming that we are all town just to fit your narrative... and that's never a good thing.
I guess it's still net helpful even granted that scum have an easy out from following it?It's not an easy out. The chance not to have cards is so low that not 'having' them is suspicious.
Ok and there is no way to try to make sure say the 4th thrust 6th players also get down to the lower level? Or catch scum if they fail?I don't think more coordination is good because then scum knows exactly who is lower deck and who isn't.
Sounds more like an easy way to drive a mislynch than anything...I guess it's still net helpful even granted that scum have an easy out from following it?It's not an easy out. The chance not to have cards is so low that not 'having' them is suspicious.
I still say people should've at least acknowledged a can or can't. Too late now, and if I'm alive for it, I probably won't be in a very forgiving mood. And faust: I know you take a lot of pride in your scumhunting ability, but for Pete's sake man, set aside your ego and work with the team. The case was already made why it doesn't matter that much if scum knows if the first 3 people got to the lower decks, and that's assuming people don't reveal actions D2. At best, what it prevents is possibly a N2 kill that might go through anyways. Alternatively, look at it as 3 people who reached the lower deck and are now in a decent position to help block the scum kill. I know this is falling on deaf ears, but I'll give it a shot anyways. Just don't blame me when everyone's getting stuck on lifts and can't even use powers because there's no energy left.Sounds more like an easy way to drive a mislynch than anything...I guess it's still net helpful even granted that scum have an easy out from following it?It's not an easy out. The chance not to have cards is so low that not 'having' them is suspicious.
Just wanted to requote it. ;DOn the other hand, Awaclus never votes correctly.
That's a lie. Vote: Skumpy
BTW @faust: Why haven't you suspected me, like, at all this game? What have I done/not done that makes me very clearly town in your eyes?Why should I suspect you?
ii was a reasonable case, what happened there?RR case was better.
Because I'm not sure if you not voting is a sign that you're scum knowing not to vote for me, despite me playing maybe a bit out of character, or a sign that you've figured out how to read me.BTW @faust: Why haven't you suspected me, like, at all this game? What have I done/not done that makes me very clearly town in your eyes?Why should I suspect you?
I do not have the right cards to be able to do the recommended actions.See, that helps!
ii was a reasonable case, what happened there?RR case was better.
But I am definitely willing to go back to iguana. Also *conspiracy theory mode* the reason iguana got excited about mcmc entering the game is because he was luckat's scumpartner.
Sounds more like an easy way to drive a mislynch than anything...I guess it's still net helpful even granted that scum have an easy out from following it?It's not an easy out. The chance not to have cards is so low that not 'having' them is suspicious.
mcmc, I'm glad you're here, but your reads are a ride on confirmation bias:Then we get to the dirty science denying Lalaight, he struck me as scummy through out my read.So I also think cheesy jelly is quite scummy as does most of town.
So here are two initial reads.This really accurately shows scum!lalight and scum!cheesyjelly using town!faust mistaken d1 case as cover to push a lynch through on town!iguana. Iv'e rode many a misplaced town!faust wagon through to lynch as scum myself.And then these reads are validated with seemingly unjustified townreads on me and iguana.Ridiculous quick wagon on skumpy once faust left the iguana train as scum desperately tries to avoid the CJ lynch going through. The E wagon formed much more naturally, there could be something there to look at in future days, he is not striking me as towny as normal could be due to his low posts though.As well as Skumpy. I think you're assuming that we are all town just to fit your narrative... and that's never a good thing.
large snipI don't think this is true, gonna get some data to back it up but if I am correct as I think I am, cheesy has been the dominant wagon amidst attempts to jump back to iguana (whos wagon was first), over to roadrunner, and finally to you. So scum is not happy settling on cheesy, remember there is four scum so they can make up half of a wagon themselves, obviously they don't want to but there haven't been tons of I would vote cj but comments which I would expect from scum waiting to hop on a town wagon.
As for the wagons, CJ's not the towniest guy around, and I do admittedly have half the information, but it's starting to reek of a dual town wagon. There's no concern, no frantic movement, everybody seems content to just let the wagons ride out. Which naturally includes 4 scum. I'll look dumb when CJ ends up being scum...eh. I'll vote there if needed, but I agree with basically everybody else that there are better options. Such as RR.
...large snipI don't think this is true, gonna get some data to back it up but if I am correct as I think I am, cheesy has been the dominant wagon amidst attempts to jump back to iguana (whos wagon was first), over to roadrunner, and finally to you. So scum is not happy settling on cheesy, remember there is four scum so they can make up half of a wagon themselves, obviously they don't want to but there haven't been tons of I would vote cj but comments which I would expect from scum waiting to hop on a town wagon.
As for the wagons, CJ's not the towniest guy around, and I do admittedly have half the information, but it's starting to reek of a dual town wagon. There's no concern, no frantic movement, everybody seems content to just let the wagons ride out. Which naturally includes 4 scum. I'll look dumb when CJ ends up being scum...eh. I'll vote there if needed, but I agree with basically everybody else that there are better options. Such as RR.
The roadrunner wagon has gone nowhere and has really just been faust sitting on him because rr defended iguana baselessly and if one belives iguana is scum rr follows.This is not the argument I am making. The argument is rather that RR behaves like his scum self - hedgy, lurky, no opinions, reluctant to join wagons - and not like his town self, which is more independent-minded.
While mcmc's post was interesting, I am super not a fan of narrative-building this early as it only serves to reinforce whatever beliefs you already hold, because every narrative is possible. I can as easily explain that iguana was a wagon on scum that his scumpartners deflected and then the townies on it moved off because it wasn't going anywhere as mcmc can claim it was a wagon on town with 2 scums on it. Neither view holds any value unless we can point to a player with confirmed alignment that behaved according to our theory.
So dunno what else you want me to do faust I think your tunneling of rr isn't the most helpful, after midday when you made your case on him which was alright, you have kinda just pestered people that they should vote rr and then keep reinforcing that "lots of people find him scummy" not something I found much proof of at all.Seems weird coming from you...
Roadrunner and lalight came off as the most scummy on this part.
and I guess while were at it what do you think of the factual case based stuff I have laid out on Lalight and CJWell I don't see any problem with LaLight voting me first and then the player that I'm voting for. I mean why would that be scummy even? The other part of the case was I think that he didn't comment on theory stuff? Which isn't that surprising when you're VLA. I mean he's not the worst lynch ever, and he hasn't been particularly townie, but I don't see anything that really sways me.
Would still love to get Theorel, EFHW, 2.7 and Gkreigs opinions of my lalaight case.
Would still love to get Theorel, EFHW, 2.7 and Gkreigs opinions of my lalaight case.
I feel like Lalight isn't engaged in the game. I don't feel any sense of ulterior motives or scum agenda, he just seems flighty and not present. The dama stuff is dominating my impression of him the most. Your narrative is consistent, a good story that could be true. I guess I need more.
Would still love to get Theorel, EFHW, 2.7 and Gkreigs opinions of my lalaight case.
I feel like Lalight isn't engaged in the game. I don't feel any sense of ulterior motives or scum agenda, he just seems flighty and not present. The dama stuff is dominating my impression of him the most. Your narrative is consistent, a good story that could be true. I guess I need more.
Reasonable, whats the more you have on CJ?
Voting for the same person that faust is voting for is not the same as following his authority. Faust doesn't own that wagon. I've contributed little to set-up talk or theory, so I'm going to contribute my vote, and a wagon of one helps nobody.
I find this justification kind of lame. Cheesy Jelly voted when any wagon could still become a going concern. The closer we get to deadline without new wagons emerging, the more committed we are to existing wagons.
This makes me want to support a one vote wagon, but I don't have cases better than this one. vote: CheesyJelly
I don't have much more of a case on CJ then skumpy's case and how opportunistic CJ's votes have been.
Would still love to get Theorel, EFHW, 2.7 and Gkreigs opinions of my lalaight case.
And of 11 other people, not one has decided this is a good enough case to jump ship, which has warning signs blazing all over it. CJ, howzabout you vote here? Not that I think mc is the towniest, but you're not getting the support for that today.The roadrunner wagon has gone nowhere and has really just been faust sitting on him because rr defended iguana baselessly and if one belives iguana is scum rr follows.This is not the argument I am making. The argument is rather that RR behaves like his scum self - hedgy, lurky, no opinions, reluctant to join wagons - and not like his town self, which is more independent-minded.
Would still love to get Theorel, EFHW, 2.7 and Gkreigs opinions of my lalaight case.
I'm confused...I thought you made the case that lalight is normally upbeat, but was using dama to fake it. Rereading your case, that's not the case you made at all, did someone else make that case? Was it about someone else? Was it in a different game?
Um...anyways, basically lalight and cj have been acting a lot in parallel to one another. Both voted faust, both then sheeped faust onto iguana, both then voted for skumpy. Man that's just weird. In each case cj followed lalight, and so I find cj scummier for it...it seems more likely for scum to follow a town-player's votes than the other way 'round.
Vote: mcmcsalotI don't have much more of a case on CJ then skumpy's case and how opportunistic CJ's votes have been.
You've put so much work into constructing a scum!me narrative to justify joining my wagon and putting me at L-2, and then immediately hedge by claiming it's not much. I just don't buy it.
I can't promise I'll be around at the deadline. At least you'll all have lots of relevant chat about me to look through if I get lynched! Use it wisely, friends.
The people who don't want a Jelly lynch need to coordinate. If there is to be a serious alternative to that lynch, everyone not voting Jelly must be on the same wagon. And say what you will about whether or not Jelly is scummy, but it's always better for analysis if there's actually an alternative.
The other things that we can still call wagons are Skumpy and RR. Skumpy is not going to happen as Skumpy himself is off the Jelly wagon and will hardly self-vote. So, I present you the alternative: RR.
Unless anyone's up for the classic last-minute Awaclus lynch.
The roadrunner wagon has gone nowhere and has really just been faust sitting on him because rr defended iguana baselessly and if one belives iguana is scum rr follows.This is not the argument I am making. The argument is rather that RR behaves like his scum self - hedgy, lurky, no opinions, reluctant to join wagons - and not like his town self, which is more independent-minded.
Sorry guys, this has probably been my lowest activity for a game ever. Reading along very sporadically and missing entire pages. I get townie vibes from Mcmcsalot, and faust is also up there. I don't get what is scummy about skumpy. CJ still seems scummy to me and iguana has started looking townier.Also, can we talk about how gkrieg gets towny vibes from mcmcsalot 1 minute after voting for him?
Sorry guys, this has probably been my lowest activity for a game ever. Reading along very sporadically and missing entire pages. I get townie vibes from Mcmcsalot, and faust is also up there. I don't get what is scummy about skumpy. CJ still seems scummy to me and iguana has started looking townier.Also, can we talk about how gkrieg gets towny vibes from mcmcsalot 1 minute after voting for him?
Until he changes his meta, I'm always up for an Awaclus lynch. It has to happen sooner or later anyway.
I also feel like Faust (and maybe skumpy too) knows that my lynch is very unlikely to go through but it's easy to sidetrack people and engage them about RR, so it might just be a ploy to waste time and discuss more things that aren't really helpful to catching scum.
Because CJ is a scumbuddy of one of {Skumpy, Faust}I also feel like Faust (and maybe skumpy too) knows that my lynch is very unlikely to go through but it's easy to sidetrack people and engage them about RR, so it might just be a ploy to waste time and discuss more things that aren't really helpful to catching scum.
But skumpy was all about that CJ wagon so why would he care to distract from it. Faust has said CJ is scummy a couple times but doesn't like not getting his way so hes gotta keep pushing his scum reads, very town!faust and not unhelpful. I see why you might "feel" that way but you should "think" about it.
Because CJ is a scumbuddy of one of {Skumpy, Faust}I also feel like Faust (and maybe skumpy too) knows that my lynch is very unlikely to go through but it's easy to sidetrack people and engage them about RR, so it might just be a ploy to waste time and discuss more things that aren't really helpful to catching scum.
But skumpy was all about that CJ wagon so why would he care to distract from it. Faust has said CJ is scummy a couple times but doesn't like not getting his way so hes gotta keep pushing his scum reads, very town!faust and not unhelpful. I see why you might "feel" that way but you should "think" about it.
Vote: CJ
Skumpy started the CJ wagon to get town cred when we learn that CJ is mafia! And iguana is a town read of mine so faust doesn't really get credit for being on iguana long ago.Because CJ is a scumbuddy of one of {Skumpy, Faust}I also feel like Faust (and maybe skumpy too) knows that my lynch is very unlikely to go through but it's easy to sidetrack people and engage them about RR, so it might just be a ploy to waste time and discuss more things that aren't really helpful to catching scum.
But skumpy was all about that CJ wagon so why would he care to distract from it. Faust has said CJ is scummy a couple times but doesn't like not getting his way so hes gotta keep pushing his scum reads, very town!faust and not unhelpful. I see why you might "feel" that way but you should "think" about it.
But they are both townie, skumpy started the cj wagon and faust was on iguana long before cj was ever suspected and the move to you was as much as he wants to disagree largely influenced by the first read.
Skumpy started the CJ wagon to get town cred when we learn that CJ is mafia! And iguana is a town read of mine so faust doesn't really get credit for being on iguana long ago.
I don't really love skumpy's case on me. I haven't played with him all that much and I'm still getting back into the swing of things, so I think now is a particularly hard time to read me, especially if you're not used to !RR.
Not gonna comment on the faust part of the theory, but that's straight up insane to think after half the people here were being absent-ish, town somehow managed to get 2 correct wagons. And I'm even thinking it's not much better to imagine town got one correct wagon, especially since the votes have all been going not my way.Because CJ is a scumbuddy of one of {Skumpy, Faust}I also feel like Faust (and maybe skumpy too) knows that my lynch is very unlikely to go through but it's easy to sidetrack people and engage them about RR, so it might just be a ploy to waste time and discuss more things that aren't really helpful to catching scum.
But skumpy was all about that CJ wagon so why would he care to distract from it. Faust has said CJ is scummy a couple times but doesn't like not getting his way so hes gotta keep pushing his scum reads, very town!faust and not unhelpful. I see why you might "feel" that way but you should "think" about it.
I also feel like Faust (and maybe skumpy too) knows that my lynch is very unlikely to go through but it's easy to sidetrack people and engage them about RR, so it might just be a ploy to waste time and discuss more things that aren't really helpful to catching scum.This is the pot calling the kettle black. If you're so concerned about wasting time, then don't get yourself prodded.
Until he changes his meta, I'm always up for an Awaclus lynch. It has to happen sooner or later anyway.Cool. Vote: Awaclus
Until he changes his meta, I'm always up for an Awaclus lynch. It has to happen sooner or later anyway.Cool. Vote: Awaclus
And with this i think I'm out for today. Might check in later, but don't count on it.
Until he changes his meta, I'm always up for an Awaclus lynch. It has to happen sooner or later anyway.Cool. Vote: Awaclus
And with this i think I'm out for today. Might check in later, but don't count on it.
Like at this moment it seems clear that absent some crazy scenario CJ is lynched by EOD. So, what possible reason could scum have to not participate, right? Unless they were not online since before mcmc's vote...at that point it was possible some other lynch could happen. Why are we so spread out? At some point town has to compromise and just make a lynch happen...
@mcmc: any thoughts?
So, is scum avoiding the CJ wagon, because they don't want to get their hands dirty and CJ's town, or are they hoping that they can get away without him being lynched somehow? I mean, if he's scum scum would have hammered for the cred right?
Or maybe they're just not around to try to do that? I dunno, maybe I'm just getting cold feet. I prefer being absent at deadlines...
I think with the amount of nk-blocking we potentially have available, that no-lynching is not ideal. Yes parity was bad today, and will probably be bad tomorrow (unless we get a lucky commuter/doctor), but we could easily get an extra lynch by game's end. But if we no-lynch then we need to have no-nk twice to get an extra lynch.
7 people are voting Jelly. That means no other wagon can succeed without people abandoning Jelly. They have made clear that they won't switch to RR, so there's no point.Until he changes his meta, I'm always up for an Awaclus lynch. It has to happen sooner or later anyway.Cool. Vote: Awaclus
And with this i think I'm out for today. Might check in later, but don't count on it.
Also mister "secondary wagons are helpful juuuuust kidding gonna make a null vote and peace out fam see ya tomorrow but not really cuz i'm a ded boi"
7 people are voting Jelly. That means no other wagon can succeed without people abandoning Jelly. They have made clear that they won't switch to RR, so there's no point.Also mister "secondary wagons are helpful juuuuust kidding gonna make a null vote and peace out fam see ya tomorrow but not really cuz i'm a ded boi"Until he changes his meta, I'm always up for an Awaclus lynch. It has to happen sooner or later anyway.Cool. Vote: Awaclus
And with this i think I'm out for today. Might check in later, but don't count on it.
The people who don't want a Jelly lynch need to coordinate. If there is to be a serious alternative to that lynch, everyone not voting Jelly must be on the same wagon. And say what you will about whether or not Jelly is scummy, but it's always better for analysis if there's actually an alternative.
The other things that we can still call wagons are Skumpy and RR. Skumpy is not going to happen as Skumpy himself is off the Jelly wagon and will hardly self-vote. So, I present you the alternative: RR.
Unless anyone's up for the classic last-minute Awaclus lynch.
Do we need to last minute switch? I've only skimmed recent posts, but it sounded like there were thoughts about an Awaclus wagon.I don't know that we need a last minute switch. But I'm wondering aloud if we shouldn't consider it.
Yeah, I'm not asking why town hasn't lynched CJ...that's perfectly reasonable. I'm asking why (if CJ is scum) hasn't scum hammered him? Do they think that they've offered to hammer and can miss deadline to get a no lynch? I mean I just have trouble imagining that situation actually happening...but I guess it could if all 3 scum were staying off, and faust was being belligerent town. I mean if scum actually makes us lynch scum (i.e. doesn't bus) we only get 2 votes able to be elsewhere.
I just feel like it's unlikely at this point, but then there seem to only be 3 of us active atm...so we're also missing at least 7 town players, that aren't bothering to show up (or post) at end of day.
CheesyJelly is not here to claim.What's he going to claim? his hand (which has basically no impact)?
Right. Force of habit.CheesyJelly is not here to claim.What's he going to claim? his hand (which has basically no impact)?
I'd rather do Awaclus than no lynch. Is there some hope someone will show up?
For the record, I'm allergic to hammers until it's absolutely required. And it's looking like it will be. No reason to waste an hour for discussion in the meantime, I'm around.
Ok. Just as well because we don't have enough people around to switch successfully.Yep as 2.7/gkrieg/silver are not here and CJ is not even voting the non him highest wagon.
Until he changes his meta, I'm always up for an Awaclus lynch. It has to happen sooner or later anyway.
PM
PM
stop padding that post count hoping to break top four and I'll never catch you like that!
What time is the deadline in some real timezone? To this date I don't have any idea what "forum time" is.
Let's finish setup talk first. What do you think Haddock?What are you asking?
Pretty sure I'm wiggling. The only person that objected was silver who objected to mouse being wiggled at all.PM
stop padding that post count hoping to break top four and I'll never catch you like that!
Naw, word count is where it's at. Normally, I'd be ahead by miles, but I'm doing a pretty good job this game of not vomiting out the useless jargon nobody cares about.
By the way, what did we decide with mouse wiggling? Random?
its in 28 min
I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
Pretty sure I'm wiggling. The only person that objected was silver who objected to mouse being wiggled at all.PM
stop padding that post count hoping to break top four and I'll never catch you like that!
Naw, word count is where it's at. Normally, I'd be ahead by miles, but I'm doing a pretty good job this game of not vomiting out the useless jargon nobody cares about.
By the way, what did we decide with mouse wiggling? Random?
Space, you said 17:35. I demand the extra 5 minutes!I'm fine going with that. I can do any of the three.I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
2 questions:
Are you Ok with this?
Can you do all 3 if needed?
Pretty sure I'm wiggling. The only person that objected was silver who objected to mouse being wiggled at all.PM
stop padding that post count hoping to break top four and I'll never catch you like that!
SMART THIS
PPE everyone posted just in case two people turn up dead
Naw, word count is where it's at. Normally, I'd be ahead by miles, but I'm doing a pretty good job this game of not vomiting out the useless jargon nobody cares about.
By the way, what did we decide with mouse wiggling? Random?
In that case: IF THEOREL IS TOP 3, EVERYONE BEHIND SHIFT UP A SPOT WHO'S WILLING!
Before I hammer can someone clarify the deal with weak visiting? No way everyone can try that, so who's doing their claimed wvs?
Before I hammer can someone clarify the deal with weak visiting? No way everyone can try that, so who's doing their claimed wvs?whoever does it, does it...
Pretty sure I'm wiggling. The only person that objected was silver who objected to mouse being wiggled at all.PM
stop padding that post count hoping to break top four and I'll never catch you like that!
Naw, word count is where it's at. Normally, I'd be ahead by miles, but I'm doing a pretty good job this game of not vomiting out the useless jargon nobody cares about.
By the way, what did we decide with mouse wiggling? Random?
In that case: IF THEOREL IS TOP 3, EVERYONE BEHIND SHIFT UP A SPOT WHO'S WILLING!
Gotcha, yep, thanks.Before I hammer can someone clarify the deal with weak visiting? No way everyone can try that, so who's doing their claimed wvs?whoever does it, does it...
if 2 people die overnight. One of them likely weak-visited...and so we have a decent idea that one of the 2 targets is scum.
SilverSpawnI know there are bigger points, but are you trying to annoy me or is this accidental? :'(
QuoteSilverSpawnI know there are bigger points, but are you trying to annoy me or is this accidental? :'(
It's not right. I get annoyed if people spell it uppercase, but spelling it double uppercase ugh cmon
Before I hammer can someone clarify the deal with weak visiting? No way everyone can try that, so who's doing their claimed wvs?The point is that in the unlikely case that we do WV, town will know whom we targeted. There are surprisingly few downsides to this. We do not want to disclose who is actually doing it, that has significant downsides. It may be that no-one is doing it.
But I don't support disclosing information about what you can and can't do at all.I think knowing someone can't do at least one of those 3 actions is helpful for town, even if they don't know why. It just means they don't have a particular tripling of cards available, which seems minimally informative to scum.
vote: CJ
Yup, got that eventually. ThanksBefore I hammer can someone clarify the deal with weak visiting? No way everyone can try that, so who's doing their claimed wvs?The point is that in the unlikely case that we do WV, town will know whom we targeted. There are surprisingly few downsides to this. We do not want to disclose who is actually doing it, that has significant downsides. It may be that no-one is doing it.
Afaikvote: CJ
This was the hammer?
vote: CJ
This was the hammer?
Afaikvote: CJ
This was the hammer?
Yep. I'm guessing town
CheesyJelly is not here to claim.There is really nothing to claim here on day 1.
8)Yep. I'm guessing town
"guessing"
With 12 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.Shouldn't this be 7?
Since you're leaving all the talking to me, let's just note how large the intersection of people on the Jelly wagon and people in the top half of the player order is. That is a superb place to start looking for scums.
With 12 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.Shouldn't this be 7?
Since you're leaving all the talking to me, let's just note how large the intersection of people on the Jelly wagon and people in the top half of the player order is. That is a superb place to start looking for scums.
why does player order matter...?
During the day phase, any scum player may request in the Scum QT to be placed in the upper half of the turn order for the next Space Phase. (Turn order will be public knowledge).
Quote from: mafia PM template from OPYou may also request during the day phase to be placed in the top half of the random player ordering for the following Space Phase.
How exactly does this work? Can every mafia do this every time and it always flies?
... doesn't that make this a semi-townslip? Why are you voting for me?It makes it an obvious fake townslip. Given that much of our debate about planning was to make top spots less attractive to scum, I am not buying this ignorance at all.
hm okayBut don't I have a long and slightly embarrassing history of making these kinds of mistakes all the time?
I don't know; do you?hm okayBut don't I have a long and slightly embarrassing history of making these kinds of mistakes all the time?
Don't expect me to make your defense for you.
I'm not sure how serious you are about this, but I don't feel like I need to defend myself more.
does top half include the middle position?
I do agree with you, on the substance. vote: Awaclus
I do agree with you, on the substance. vote: AwaclusIf you agree with me, then why exactly are you voting for a player that is not in the set of players I talked about...?
So. I've been thinking. Now comes something that will put off some of you, I can feel it coming. But still.Yeah, I don't think so.
I'm clearly the towniest player alive, so I think it would be in town's best interest if you let me decide everything on claiming. Basically, treat me as an IC today, I will coordinate claiming, and that way we'll have the best shot of catching scum.
I agree that everyone in the top half gets scum points. I'm not as sold on the wagon mattering.
So. I've been thinking. Now comes something that will put off some of you, I can feel it coming. But still.Count me in on 'put off'. Unfortunately, I don't really have a better idea. It'd be nice of you to leave it as a democracy after you decide, but in any event, the sooner the better. If you happen to care, I'd say anyone who monitored should claim first.
I'm clearly the towniest player alive, so I think it would be in town's best interest if you let me decide everything on claiming. Basically, treat me as an IC today, I will coordinate claiming, and that way we'll have the best shot of catching scum.
Well, because I found it not at all obvious that CJ was town. And most likely the other wagon was on a town, too.
Well, because I found it not at all obvious that CJ was town.This is a good point. And 4/12 isn't very helpful.
I agree that everyone in the top half gets scum points. I'm not as sold on the wagon mattering.
Why not?
Theorel, gkrieg, silver and Haddock...Let's not froget about you...
Well, because I found it not at all obvious that CJ was town. And most likely the other wagon was on a town, too.Which other wagon are you referring to?
I was #7, not in the top half. But I'm happy not to be forgotten.Theorel, gkrieg, silver and Haddock...Let's not froget about you...
It is if 2 of those are scum.Well, because I found it not at all obvious that CJ was town.This is a good point. And 4/12 isn't very helpful.
Well, 13/2 is a difficult calculation!I was #7, not in the top half. But I'm happy not to be forgotten.Theorel, gkrieg, silver and Haddock...Let's not froget about you...
So the reactions to my claims proposal have been...weird? People seemed to not like it. But none of the critiques offered an alternative. I think it's fairly obvious that we need to claim stuff.
So, here's a proposal: Everyone who successfully used roleblock tonight claims now, including target.
So you, who spent all D1 pestering me about my refusal to coordinate, did not follow the plan? ???So the reactions to my claims proposal have been...weird? People seemed to not like it. But none of the critiques offered an alternative. I think it's fairly obvious that we need to claim stuff.
So, here's a proposal: Everyone who successfully used roleblock tonight claims now, including target.
Not really the order I would've preferred - I'd say deck monitoring comes first to prove you know what you're talking about. Oh well. Ball's gotta get rolling at some point, and nobody else is saying much.
I roleblocked Awaclus.
So you, who spent all D1 pestering me about my refusal to coordinate, did not follow the plan? ???So the reactions to my claims proposal have been...weird? People seemed to not like it. But none of the critiques offered an alternative. I think it's fairly obvious that we need to claim stuff.
So, here's a proposal: Everyone who successfully used roleblock tonight claims now, including target.
Not really the order I would've preferred - I'd say deck monitoring comes first to prove you know what you're talking about. Oh well. Ball's gotta get rolling at some point, and nobody else is saying much.
I roleblocked Awaclus.
Everyone who successfully used roleblock tonight claims now, including target.
Interesting.
I don't know how to read Awaclus. He's making bad votes, not contributing...the usual Awaclus. I've never played with scumAwaclus, so I have a hard time imagining how he'd change it up. Having said that...I just don't trust Awaclus to be a team player at night. I honestly wonder if it's a good lynch even if he's town.
Okay, I mean after a bit of thinking it turns out that Awaclus' play is just plain stupid as either alignment. So I guess that points to town!anti-town!Awaclus.
No, your night actions were stupid. You knew Skumpy would play according to plan, and you blocked the proper execution, causing his lift to fail. So that mean he uses Roleblock. On whom does he use it? Of course, on the only player that would cause him using Roleblock in the first case: you. That means youOkay, I mean after a bit of thinking it turns out that Awaclus' play is just plain stupid as either alignment. So I guess that points to town!anti-town!Awaclus.
I shouldn't have confirmed Skumpy's roleblock claim?
Well put.No, your night actions were stupid. You knew Skumpy would play according to plan, and you blocked the proper execution, causing his lift to fail. So that mean he uses Roleblock. On whom does he use it? Of course, on the only player that would cause him using Roleblock in the first case: you. That means youOkay, I mean after a bit of thinking it turns out that Awaclus' play is just plain stupid as either alignment. So I guess that points to town!anti-town!Awaclus.
I shouldn't have confirmed Skumpy's roleblock claim?
- wasted 1 energy from the central pool by having Skumpy roleblock you
- wasted 1 action of yours that was presumably roleblocked
- blocked the lift for a player that is now confirmed to be upper deck.
If you ask me, that is a horrible outcome, and it wouldn't have taken a lot of thought to foresee this.
No, your night actions were stupid. You knew Skumpy would play according to plan, and you blocked the proper execution, causing his lift to fail. So that mean he uses Roleblock. On whom does he use it? Of course, on the only player that would cause him using Roleblock in the first case: you. That means youOkay, I mean after a bit of thinking it turns out that Awaclus' play is just plain stupid as either alignment. So I guess that points to town!anti-town!Awaclus.
I shouldn't have confirmed Skumpy's roleblock claim?
- wasted 1 energy from the central pool by having Skumpy roleblock you
- wasted 1 action of yours that was presumably roleblocked
- blocked the lift for a player that is now confirmed to be upper deck.
If you ask me, that is a horrible outcome, and it wouldn't have taken a lot of thought to foresee this.
Also, how about we claim which (left/right) direction we all moved in, as a starting point? I'd like that information before I claim what I did.I don't think this is a good idea and I won't participate.
I'll start: I went blue-wards.
if we claim blue/red movement, we're giving scum more data to figure out who left the upper deck. of course if people used actions, we need to communicate this anyway, but in other cases I don't see any benefit.I see a fairly decent benefit to it in that it forces scum fakeclaims to start boxing themselves in before they have too much other information.
Posting TL;DR stuff is anti-town.If this exceeds your reading capabilities:
I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
Here is a rough order in which we should claim things:
- RB
- Commute
- Doctor
- Tracker
- Cop
- Weak Visitor
Then there's Status Printout, which should go in between Tracker and Cop probably, and finally the deck/zone monitoring stuff, which can go last. Well, deck monitoring is arguably scummier and should go first, but it is super unlikely that someone managed to do that anyway.
*I mean no one will claim to intentionally have cop-switched*Here is a rough order in which we should claim things:
- RB
- Commute
- Doctor
- Tracker
- Cop
- Weak Visitor
Then there's Status Printout, which should go in between Tracker and Cop probably, and finally the deck/zone monitoring stuff, which can go last. Well, deck monitoring is arguably scummier and should go first, but it is super unlikely that someone managed to do that anyway.
Don't you think cop-switches should be claimed somewhere early in the order?
Of course, no one intended to do a cop-switch. But if anyone did something dumb and got blocked from moving to lower-Blue, then we want to know who they cop-switched early. Not interested in late-claim cop switches.
Posting TL;DR stuff is anti-town.If this exceeds your reading capabilities:I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
then please sub out, mafia clearly isn't the right game for you.
Posting TL;DR stuff is anti-town.If this exceeds your reading capabilities:I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
then please sub out, mafia clearly isn't the right game for you.
However, I didn't have any red cards so that was impossible.
Posting TL;DR stuff is anti-town.If this exceeds your reading capabilities:I endorse this1: Red-Lift-B
2: Lift-B-A
3: Blue-Lift-C?
Whoever does too, stick to it. That's the best we can get at this point, unfortunately.
then please sub out, mafia clearly isn't the right game for you.
However, I didn't have any red cards so that was impossible.
But it takes exactly how much thought to realize that Skumpy was going to try to use the Lift, and you were blocking him?
Okay, I mean after a bit of thinking it turns out that Awaclus' play is just plain stupid as either alignment. So I guess that points to town!anti-town!Awaclus.
- wasted 1 action of yours that was presumably roleblockedI don't think lower deck actions can be roleblocked, which I targeted Awaclus - I don't believe in trying to find the nightkill, I think it's going to do more harm than good when I take a shot in the dark with 12 other people. I'd rather roleblock someone who I know I won't trip up because there's nothing to trip up.
I went redwards...why?
let's lynch awaclus.
And by the way:I went redwards...why?
TO clog things up?
And by the way:I went redwards...why?
I didn't have any blue cards, and it seemed like the best way to go to clog things up.
TO clog things up?
And by the way:I went redwards...why?
I didn't have any blue cards, and it seemed like the best way to go to clog things up.
let's lynch awaclus.No, let's lynch you.
I don't see why we should assume that scum are in the top half. What if they didn't pick that option?Scum is more likely to be in the top half because there is a nonzero chance that they did pick that option, and thus all else aside the top half is a better place to look for scum.
Also, I don't see why Fast is the towniest player alive and don't want to let him lead us all off a cliff.Well, look at reads D1, you will be hard-pressed to find a player more townread than me. Since then it's also become clear that I opposed a stupid mislynch.
Also Weak Visit: EFHW
I solved it. The scum team is silver, EFHW, iguana, RR.
They would have to do that twice to be certain, right? Once per turn, and first turn doesn't count because it's movement.I solved it. The scum team is silver, EFHW, iguana, RR.
I assume you're suspicious of EFHW because if scum doesn't kill mcmc, then mcmc might weak visit and we know more. So why wouldn't scum just jam upper blue to stop WV and doctor? After all, there is 2 energy in blue - exactly the same amount the night started with.
They would have to do that twice to be certain, right? Once per turn, and first turn doesn't count because it's movement.I solved it. The scum team is silver, EFHW, iguana, RR.
I assume you're suspicious of EFHW because if scum doesn't kill mcmc, then mcmc might weak visit and we know more. So why wouldn't scum just jam upper blue to stop WV and doctor? After all, there is 2 energy in blue - exactly the same amount the night started with.
But it's a good observation and totally possible. it would narrow scum's movements down to
- nightkill
- move to red
- 2x C in upper red
- potentially second move to red unless some scum has a good combination of cards.
That's 4-5 out of 12 scum actions.
New claiming plan as we need to get a move on: Everyone claims their successful mafia game actions in their next post.
I did not perform a successful mafia game action last night.
Claiming failed actions as well makes it super easy for scum to figure out who is where.
I'm not sure what your question is... are you asking what advice I would have given the scum team above for N1?Claiming failed actions as well makes it super easy for scum to figure out who is where.
Scum already has one guaranteed safe kill with me. I don't think playing to avoid NK's is going to do much.
Let's say your silverspawn/EFHW/iguana/RR theory is correct (I'll go on the record to say I actually don't think this is terribly far from being right): given the night action order, what would you have everybody do?
I'm not sure what your question is... are you asking what advice I would have given the scum team above for N1?Claiming failed actions as well makes it super easy for scum to figure out who is where.
Scum already has one guaranteed safe kill with me. I don't think playing to avoid NK's is going to do much.
Let's say your silverspawn/EFHW/iguana/RR theory is correct (I'll go on the record to say I actually don't think this is terribly far from being right): given the night action order, what would you have everybody do?
Also, there's like Doctor and Commuter and stuff, so killing you is far from safe.Fair point. I still don't want to bank on scum messing up the night kill. A correct lynch today and a night kill is worth more than a mislynch today and no kill tonight.
Sort of. More specifically: you agreed that scum sent somebody Red to block upper blue. Obviously, someone used a night kill. Maybe the same person or a third wanted to get a secret cop switch. Given the order of those 4, who does what of that stuff?Well this is sort of wild speculation, but sure if it amuses you.
upper half U CJ wagonI think you mean cap (intersection), not cup (union).
We should claim red/blue in time. faust, pls make this happen.No.
But you know, you can claim, noone's stopping you.We should claim red/blue in time. faust, pls make this happen.No.
upper half U CJ wagonI think you mean cap (intersection), not cup (union).
maybe we should stop the theory talk, otherwise an angry faust might pay you a visit. Get it? Ok it's a bad pun...
A scum team like that has silver in 5, which is the ideal position - not bound to any plan, but you have a rough idea of what all the players ahead of you are going to do. silver would definitely try to reach the lower deck. Central lift is blocked phase 1 and possibly phase 2 (due to theorel). Red and blue lifts are blocked phase 2. So ideally you go red/blue -> action -> lift. It's very unlikely for town!silver to be blocked out of using any actions, so it would be scummy to claim that, so he probably tries the most "pro-town" thing and uses red Cop.
Since you're leaving all the talking to me, let's just note how large the intersection of people on the Jelly wagon and people in the top half of the player order is. That is a superb place to start looking for scums.
why does player order matter...?
I still am quite sure there was scum among theory talkers D1And let's also talk about how idiotic this point is. Do you believe scum went into N0 strategizing things like "oh, we have to make sure to have at least one of us talk about setup a lot, because that will get us town cred." and later "oh no LaLight found us out"
and I have faked townslips as town before multiple times. faust had me as his top town read yesterday, and now a TOWN SLIP made him put me at the other end of the list? Come on.I had you as my top townread early D1, certainly not by the end of D1.
As I see it, there are about zero events that are less likely to have occurred with faust being mafia and several that are more likely to have occurred, such asIt's funny how you always throw around dirt and try to see what sticks, but never actually back things up with a vote.
1) faust arguing for wiggling the mouse
2) faust pursuing this case on me right now
3) faust not wanting us to claim colors
4) faust not dying N1
4) faust not dying N1Oh, oh, you not dying N1 is also more likely if you are mafia! Fun fact: Not dying N1 makes everyone more likely to be scum!
Sort of. More specifically: you agreed that scum sent somebody Red to block upper blue. Obviously, someone used a night kill. Maybe the same person or a third wanted to get a secret cop switch. Given the order of those 4, who does what of that stuff?For RR/iguana, you could have one do red -> nightkill -> block blue A/B and the other going for the Cop switch. Or not. The beautiful thing about Cop switch is you don't actually have to use it, its mere presence is enough, so you can play a WIFOM game there. Another option is to try and get lucky with the lifts.
Ok. Look.
I know with 100% certainty, mod-confirmed, that Blue A&B was disabled. I went blue to visit faust, but but failed. I planed this before faust made us claim WV targets, see heremaybe we should stop the theory talk, otherwise an angry faust might pay you a visit. Get it? Ok it's a bad pun...
Observe that a) this already proves that the narrative faust just made up is falseA scum team like that has silver in 5, which is the ideal position - not bound to any plan, but you have a rough idea of what all the players ahead of you are going to do. silver would definitely try to reach the lower deck. Central lift is blocked phase 1 and possibly phase 2 (due to theorel). Red and blue lifts are blocked phase 2. So ideally you go red/blue -> action -> lift. It's very unlikely for town!silver to be blocked out of using any actions, so it would be scummy to claim that, so he probably tries the most "pro-town" thing and uses red Cop.
And b) it gives scum a lot of incentive to block blue A&B since faust was expected to be visited.
And faust's attack on me is so ridiculous that I have a hard time seeing it come from town. The idea that I am not capable of forgetting such a setup detail is RIDICULOUS. You've all known me for years. I mess up and forget details ALL THE TIME, and if one person has experienced that first hand, it's faust.
Also what evidence do we actually have that he's town? Like, none?
I still am quite sure there was scum among theory talkers D1And let's also talk about how idiotic this point is. Do you believe scum went into N0 strategizing things like "oh, we have to make sure to have at least one of us talk about setup a lot, because that will get us town cred." and later "oh no LaLight found us out"
Faust and me talked a lot about setup because we always do if the setup is logically interesting. Saying there is scum among the setup talkers has as much merit as saying there is scum among the first 3 fibonacci numbers in the signup order. It means nothing. It's only trivially likely based on probability.
4) faust not dying N1Oh, oh, you not dying N1 is also more likely if you are mafia! Fun fact: Not dying N1 makes everyone more likely to be scum!
Yeah, but in a setup that includes Doctoring (ok, may have been disabled) and Commuting, how good an idea is it really to go for the usual nightkill? I'd actually say I'm less likely to be a N1 NK target here than a random townie.4) faust not dying N1Oh, oh, you not dying N1 is also more likely if you are mafia! Fun fact: Not dying N1 makes everyone more likely to be scum!
Well, here I can see silver's point. Not everyone is you
Also what evidence do we actually have that he's town? Like, none?What evidence do we actually have that you are town?
Yeah, but in a setup that includes Doctoring (ok, may have been disabled) and Commuting, how good an idea is it really to go for the usual nightkill? I'd actually say I'm less likely to be a N1 NK target here than a random townie.4) faust not dying N1Oh, oh, you not dying N1 is also more likely if you are mafia! Fun fact: Not dying N1 makes everyone more likely to be scum!
Well, here I can see silver's point. Not everyone is you
I have to admit that I really don't understand what we expect to get out of fully claiming all night-actions received. Not that it isn't worth it, I just don't get it.
I took no night-actions.
I do feel like faust is overplaying his "I'm town" hand. While I'm not sure it's scummy it does feel unearned, and makes me wary of what he wants us to do. At this stage though, I feel like his request is relatively safe even if I don't understand the proposed benefits.
I don't think silver is necessarily scum though. I think scum knowing the full red-white-blue split of town is relatively bad for town. And I'm not convinced we actually are able to determine who is scum from it (just like the night-actions).
I think if someone did something scummy overnight it's awaclus, and I think just shrugging and moving on is exactly what scum would want to happen. I'm feeling less benevolent towards too-scummy-to-be-scum since O abused the notion as scum.
I'm still a little under the weather, so I'm gonna stick a vote: awaclus here...not sure how often I'll be checking back in.
The problem with that is that I'm not too scummy to be scum, I'm too towny to be scum.You're mainly too awfully playing to be scum, even if I'd really like to have you out of the game.
The problem with that is that I'm not too scummy to be scum, I'm too towny to be scum.You're mainly too awfully playing to be scum, even if I'd really like to have you out of the game.
How do you know you were roleblocked?
...okay.The problem with that is that I'm not too scummy to be scum, I'm too towny to be scum.You're mainly too awfully playing to be scum, even if I'd really like to have you out of the game.
How do you know you were roleblocked?
Didn't say I know I was roleblocked. I just have the status printout so I know someone used the action.
Can you also confirm silver's claim that noone used actions from upper blue A/B?
As I see it, there are about zero events that are less likely to have occurred with faust being mafia and several that are more likely to have occurred, such asIt's funny how you always throw around dirt and try to see what sticks, but never actually back things up with a vote.
1) faust arguing for wiggling the mouse
2) faust pursuing this case on me right now
3) faust not wanting us to claim colors
4) faust not dying N1
vote: faust
I was last in the thingy so I can't imagine I have too much to claimI was just going to prod you!
I think you should coordinate. I didn't roleblock.Notably silver seemed to trust me before he launched full swing into OMGUS-mode.
You can take that however you want ;)I was last in the thingy so I can't imagine I have too much to claimI was just going to prod you!
So I take that to mean that you took no successful mafia game action.
It seems to me we have a lot more unknown information than just me, e and RR. And there are often legit town reasons for not claiming.Well sure. And if someone comes out with an investigative result (as I suppose you just did), then that's a good reason for sure. But if not, then it just looks like intentional stalling.
3: theorel
4: gkrieg
5: silverspawn
6: Haddock
7: EFHW
These guys
What did I do end of day that was suspicious?It seems to me we have a lot more unknown information than just me, e and RR. And there are often legit town reasons for not claiming.Well sure. And if someone comes out with an investigative result (as I suppose you just did), then that's a good reason for sure. But if not, then it just looks like intentional stalling.
For the record, I'm suspicious of you because of the way you handled the end of day yesterday. I thought I might be onto something with the weak visiting, but those actions being disabled probably in 2 phases means there's nothing there.
You were voting for CheesyJelly and were really worried about us failing to reach a majority even though he was at L-1. It seemed fake.What did I do end of day that was suspicious?It seems to me we have a lot more unknown information than just me, e and RR. And there are often legit town reasons for not claiming.Well sure. And if someone comes out with an investigative result (as I suppose you just did), then that's a good reason for sure. But if not, then it just looks like intentional stalling.
For the record, I'm suspicious of you because of the way you handled the end of day yesterday. I thought I might be onto something with the weak visiting, but those actions being disabled probably in 2 phases means there's nothing there.
Right. I'd been skimming and saw people talking about switching but missed that a hammer vote was expected.You were voting for CheesyJelly and were really worried about us failing to reach a majority even though he was at L-1. It seemed fake.What did I do end of day that was suspicious?It seems to me we have a lot more unknown information than just me, e and RR. And there are often legit town reasons for not claiming.Well sure. And if someone comes out with an investigative result (as I suppose you just did), then that's a good reason for sure. But if not, then it just looks like intentional stalling.
For the record, I'm suspicious of you because of the way you handled the end of day yesterday. I thought I might be onto something with the weak visiting, but those actions being disabled probably in 2 phases means there's nothing there.
As I see it, there are about zero events that are less likely to have occurred with faust being mafia and several that are more likely to have occurred, such asIt's funny how you always throw around dirt and try to see what sticks, but never actually back things up with a vote.
1) faust arguing for wiggling the mouse
2) faust pursuing this case on me right now
3) faust not wanting us to claim colors
4) faust not dying N1
vote: faust
I mean, you just voted faust, so...
Also what evidence do we actually have that he's town? Like, none?What evidence do we actually have that you are town?
I think you should coordinate. I didn't roleblock.Notably silver seemed to trust me before he launched full swing into OMGUS-mode.
Simple question for silver: Why did you not use Cop?
Why not?and I have faked townslips as town before multiple times. faust had me as his top town read yesterday, and now a TOWN SLIP made him put me at the other end of the list? Come on.I had you as my top townread early D1, certainly not by the end of D1.
Why not?and I have faked townslips as town before multiple times. faust had me as his top town read yesterday, and now a TOWN SLIP made him put me at the other end of the list? Come on.I had you as my top townread early D1, certainly not by the end of D1.
Simple question for silver: Why did you not use Cop?
Because I thought this was better. We established that upper blue is bad and we probably shouldn't go there. This is why I expected that my action would very likely to through (and why it being blocked is odd). I also expected most people to go red.
And I had a town read on you EoD1, and confirming town!you, in particular, is high value. I wanted that guarantee so that no-one has to be paranoid of scum!you doing exactly what you're doing right now.
Now can you explain why you didn't want people to claim colors?Because I do not want scum to know who of us are on the lower deck. And because i don't see how it would benefit town.
Liar.Can we just turn it down a notch, please?
Well okay.Also what evidence do we actually have that he's town? Like, none?What evidence do we actually have that you are town?
False equivalence. You are the one who came out declaring yourself an IC.
But since you asked, sort of, I can confirm that silver had no targets last night.Still I guess this is enough for me to go back to Vote: RR
And last but not least, I townslipped D1. Rememberß so according to you I should be solidly town now.You sorta-slipped. The information you didn't know was only somewhat more likely to be known by scum than by town. But yes, I'm aware of that.
We need to hear from e.
Request prod on e
Why is nothing happening? Noone has announced VLA...Sorry, just much too busy, but have just enough time to kind of keep up with the game, and a sub seems unlikely.
Request prods on LaLight, Skumpy, Haddock, gkrieg, iguana
faust, if you're so certain RR is scum, then what's the harm in knowing what he went for. Cop? A blocked lift? Everyone has things they could claim. Three things, to be exact.You can take that however you want ;)I was last in the thingy so I can't imagine I have too much to claimI was just going to prod you!
So I take that to mean that you took no successful mafia game action.
Now how do we lynch them?Like this: Vote: RR
faust, if you're so certain RR is scum, then what's the harm in knowing what he went for. Cop? A blocked lift? Everyone has things they could claim. Three things, to be exact.People can claim whatever suits them. It's just that I won't claim colors.
I actually agree with not claiming your position on the ship, I just don't see what's the problem with claiming colors. The information to hide is up vs down not blue vs red vs white.There is a correlation between the two.
Was it ever explained why faust is so towny?Yes. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17062.msg744959#msg744959)
Why is nothing happening? Noone has announced VLA...
Request prods on LaLight, Skumpy, Haddock, gkrieg, iguana
Ok. Look.Dammit.
I know with 100% certainty, mod-confirmed, that Blue A&B was disabled. I went blue to visit faust, but but failed. I planed this before faust made us claim WV targets, see here
Not wanting us to claim colors is similarly asinine.100% agree.
Gad. You're unbearable.I have to admit that I really don't understand what we expect to get out of fully claiming all night-actions received. Not that it isn't worth it, I just don't get it.
I took no night-actions.
I do feel like faust is overplaying his "I'm town" hand. While I'm not sure it's scummy it does feel unearned, and makes me wary of what he wants us to do. At this stage though, I feel like his request is relatively safe even if I don't understand the proposed benefits.
I don't think silver is necessarily scum though. I think scum knowing the full red-white-blue split of town is relatively bad for town. And I'm not convinced we actually are able to determine who is scum from it (just like the night-actions).
I think if someone did something scummy overnight it's awaclus, and I think just shrugging and moving on is exactly what scum would want to happen. I'm feeling less benevolent towards too-scummy-to-be-scum since O abused the notion as scum.
I'm still a little under the weather, so I'm gonna stick a vote: awaclus here...not sure how often I'll be checking back in.
The problem with that is that I'm not too scummy to be scum, I'm too towny to be scum.
This makes no sense. Since when did faust go around saying things that make no sense?Now can you explain why you didn't want people to claim colors?Because I do not want scum to know who of us are on the lower deck. And because i don't see how it would benefit town.
Not enough of one for it to be at all helpful.I actually agree with not claiming your position on the ship, I just don't see what's the problem with claiming colors. The information to hide is up vs down not blue vs red vs white.There is a correlation between the two.
See I was looking for something more along the lines of 'so and so weak visited Faust' and not 'I'm town because I've down towny things.'Was it ever explained why faust is so towny?Yes. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17062.msg744959#msg744959)
Please give it up pleaseNow how do we lynch them?Like this: Vote: RRfaust, if you're so certain RR is scum, then what's the harm in knowing what he went for. Cop? A blocked lift? Everyone has things they could claim. Three things, to be exact.People can claim whatever suits them. It's just that I won't claim colors.
Even though faust is making WAY less sense than silver, silver seems scummier.What about me is scummy??!?
I'm confused.
Even though faust is making WAY less sense than silver, silver seems scummier.What about me is scummy??!?
I'm confused.
@RR: Do you have an issue with claiming what you did last night?My only issue is that people are gonna tell me how sub optimal I am
I don't know. You just. Don't seem yourself.Even though faust is making WAY less sense than silver, silver seems scummier.What about me is scummy??!?
I'm confused.
So looking back through the last 40 or so posts: everyone's done talking about the night. Fantastic. We have learned absolutely nothing from what's been said so far.This is actually a really good point. Sure I'll go first.
What's the worst that can happen if we share what we did? We risk night kills? What's the best? That we might actually figure something out. If you're on f.ds, chances are you made your way here through some connection to a board game that requires a great deal of thinking based on objective information. Guess what - we have objective information! 8 people here are truth tellers, 4 are liars. Pick them out.
@RR: Do you have an issue with claiming what you did last night?
i believe faust's townieness, he looks very confident to be scum from what i remember about faust. But i don't really agree with his choice, when scummier silver is here
Well I can tell you that right now without even knowing your night actions.@RR: Do you have an issue with claiming what you did last night?My only issue is that people are gonna tell me how sub optimal I am
I do agree that by this point in time, we should probably try to figure out what happened to the red actions, as noone seems to have used them...There's more pressing stuff first. Such as:
I do agree that by this point in time, we should probably try to figure out what happened to the red actions, as noone seems to have used them...
3. Theorel likely wiggled, or else a scum partner did. Rest is unknown.
3. Theorel likely wiggled, or else a scum partner did. Rest is unknown.
Can you clarify what you mean by "a scum partner did"
Your scum partner or theorel's? Either way to know this you are scum
Or, better yet, vote: skumpy
I read the end of D1 and I am just not comfortable with skumpy's "why hasn't scum hammered CJ yet" post and then his twilight "I bet CJ flips town" post.
So let's chit chat about the Cheesy Jelly.
I made that vote (which wasn't influenced by SS at all getting there first, keep in mind) based on the only tangible thing there was at the time - the incongruity between CJ voting faust then joining him on the Iguana wagon. I'd done my setup shpeal for as long as I could make it last with the three other people who were willing. That ended, time to make a non-RVS vote. I'm not persuasive or a good-decision maker when it comes to votes, so if other people are hopping on, that tells me it's more likely scum wants to join then people are actually swayed. Hence, the e vote. Which I'm still OK with. Because when you switch up the wagons last minute, scum doesn't get comfortable sitting on the same stuff for 50 hours. There's been
The other thing that concerns me is: if CJ is scum, then where are the other 3? Maybe another on me. One's probably bussing. And the fourth? In Haddock/faust? Another bus? I guess it's not crazy, but it's easier for me to believe scum's split pretty comfortably.
I mean, it's looking like CJ's getting lynched, especially with faust gone, but I have to throw out my thoughts before it happens. Is a no lynch bonkers crazy this game? How much info do we expect to get from night actions? Because if we're wrong, 8-4 is not a ratio I'm in love with.
Yeah, I'm not asking why town hasn't lynched CJ...that's perfectly reasonable. I'm asking why (if CJ is scum) hasn't scum hammered him? Do they think that they've offered to hammer and can miss deadline to get a no lynch? I mean I just have trouble imagining that situation actually happening...but I guess it could if all 3 scum were staying off, and faust was being belligerent town. I mean if scum actually makes us lynch scum (i.e. doesn't bus) we only get 2 votes able to be elsewhere.
I just feel like it's unlikely at this point, but then there seem to only be 3 of us active atm...so we're also missing at least 7 town players, that aren't bothering to show up (or post) at end of day.
So let's chit chat about the Cheesy Jelly.
I made that vote (which wasn't influenced by SS at all getting there first, keep in mind) based on the only tangible thing there was at the time - the incongruity between CJ voting faust then joining him on the Iguana wagon. I'd done my setup shpeal for as long as I could make it last with the three other people who were willing. That ended, time to make a non-RVS vote. I'm not persuasive or a good-decision maker when it comes to votes, so if other people are hopping on, that tells me it's more likely scum wants to join then people are actually swayed. Hence, the e vote. Which I'm still OK with. Because when you switch up the wagons last minute, scum doesn't get comfortable sitting on the same stuff for 50 hours. There's been
The other thing that concerns me is: if CJ is scum, then where are the other 3? Maybe another on me. One's probably bussing. And the fourth? In Haddock/faust? Another bus? I guess it's not crazy, but it's easier for me to believe scum's split pretty comfortably.
I mean, it's looking like CJ's getting lynched, especially with faust gone, but I have to throw out my thoughts before it happens. Is a no lynch bonkers crazy this game? How much info do we expect to get from night actions? Because if we're wrong, 8-4 is not a ratio I'm in love with.
I don't understand your point. It bothered me that everybody on his wagon stayed put. My gut proved correct.
Or, better yet, vote: skumpy
I read the end of D1 and I am just not comfortable with skumpy's "why hasn't scum hammered CJ yet" post and then his twilight "I bet CJ flips town" post.
I don't understand your point. It bothered me that everybody on his wagon stayed put. My gut proved correct.
Yeah, I definitely think scum got on the wagon early and just sat there comfortably..... which points to, say, me. Which is an unfortunate byproduct of being absent most of D1. And then following that up with a slow D2 start. I am caught up though and will try to stay that way
Let's vote: gkrieg
For fun. I like lynching on wagon today.
"You're so Skummy"
"No I'm not!"
"Oh. Well, never mind then"
It was theorel! Sorry, reading and mixed up the names
Or, better yet, vote: skumpy
I read the end of D1 and I am just not comfortable with skumpy's "why hasn't scum hammered CJ yet" post and then his twilight "I bet CJ flips town" post.I don't understand your point. It bothered me that everybody on his wagon stayed put. My gut proved correct.
Yeah, I definitely think scum got on the wagon early and just sat there comfortably..... which points to, say, me. Which is an unfortunate byproduct of being absent most of D1. And then following that up with a slow D2 start. I am caught up though and will try to stay that wayLet's vote: gkrieg
For fun. I like lynching on wagon today.
"You're so Skummy"
"No I'm not!"
"Oh. Well, never mind then"
Let's vote: gkriegNo RR?
For fun. I like lynching on wagon today.
Let's vote: gkriegNo RR?
For fun. I like lynching on wagon today.
I mean gkrieg is a sensilbe lynch as well.
I suppose you're right.Let's vote: gkriegNo RR?
For fun. I like lynching on wagon today.
I mean gkrieg is a sensilbe lynch as well.
Gkrieg was wagon and top half. RR was neither. If we have silly standards to hold up that help guide our votes might as well abide by them
ss/Haddock: Which round was your WV attempted?
I think the upper half wagon standard is stupid. There, I said it.
I think the upper half wagon standard is stupid. There, I said it.
Why? This is really like the only thing that is stronger than reads in my opinion.
I would be surprised if more than 1 scum intentionally went up on N1Even in this case a random player from the top half is significantly more likely to be scum than one from the bottom half.
Awaclus: How many Cop flips were used last night? And what was your entire action sequence?
I would be surprised if more than 1 scum intentionally went up on N1Even in this case a random player from the top half is significantly more likely to be scum than one from the bottom half.
All else aside, the chance that a random player is scum right now is 33%. Assume that one scum chose to go to the top half.
That means a top-half player has a 1/6 chance to be that player, and thus scum. If they are not that player, they have a 3/11 chance to be one of the other scums. So
P(x scum | x in top half) = 1/6 + 3/11 = 43.9 %
Whereas
P(x scum | x not in top half) = 3/11 = 27.2 %
That is a pretty big difference.
I think it would be good to know this:
Awaclus, did you refill the central pool?
Wiggling doesn’t take energyAnd what about you anyway? Quo usque tandem abutere patentia nostra?
Quo usque tandem abutere patentia nostra?
You may be able to appease me with a full disclosure of your night actions.Probably not, I went down and filled up central...uselessly apparently, because Awaclus makes bad decisions.
It looks like my actions didn't do anything apparently, but I had a very poor choice of cards to play. I refilled the central poolOne of you is lying obviously... only one of you could have used the lift in phase 2. Unless there is like a lot of people that tried using the lift.
PPE: 1 (not only me apparently)
I definitely can say my night was good :)And was was that about then?
Wait, LaLight, did you not claim to go bluewards...?
More than 1 person can use a lift in the same phase (every 4 people can use a lift). I'm not sure why you say "unless a lot of people tried using the lift". What does people trying to use the lift have to do with it?It looks like my actions didn't do anything apparently, but I had a very poor choice of cards to play. I refilled the central poolOne of you is lying obviously... only one of you could have used the lift in phase 2. Unless there is like a lot of people that tried using the lift.
PPE: 1 (not only me apparently)
I definitely can say my night was good :)I'm good with vote: Lalight
Let me get this straight: your claim is:Wait, LaLight, did you not claim to go bluewards...?
I went bluewards afterwards
Err... for 2 people to successfully use the same lift in the same phase, there need to be 3 more people who tried and failed to use that lift... is that not correct?More than 1 person can use a lift in the same phase (every 4 people can use a lift). I'm not sure why you say "unless a lot of people tried using the lift". What does people trying to use the lift have to do with it?It looks like my actions didn't do anything apparently, but I had a very poor choice of cards to play. I refilled the central poolOne of you is lying obviously... only one of you could have used the lift in phase 2. Unless there is like a lot of people that tried using the lift.
PPE: 1 (not only me apparently)
That would require 2 more players that tried to use the central lift in phase 1. Come out and claim...You're super misunderstanding something.
If one person successfully uses a lift, the next three people in turn order will find their attempt at lift use failsNot the next 3 that try, just the next three in turn order.
I'm not sure why that would result in the comment you quoted:I definitely can say my night was good :)I'm good with vote: Lalight
LaLight, can you claim your exact hand at the start of D1?
What was the point of going bluewards?
What was the point of going bluewards?
I couldn't go redwards, I wanted to stay on lower deck, I have lifts to go to WV or Doctor anyone, I can refill Blue Pool, I had extra action after all, so why not?
I can go up, doctor anyone and go back down if no one messes with meAnd scum can block all blue actions...
But more importantly, can you let us know how the plan that was made D1, and discussed at length D1, factored into your decisions?
I may be stupid, but I am not scum hereWell yeah, I guess so.
So, if I'm understanding correctly, no town got any cop results. But both red energy have been spent...meaning likely that the cop power was used by scum in order to keep it from town hands. Scum also was in red canceling upper-blue actions. So at least 2 scum are in upper red presumably at this moment.It's possible that mcmc used up one of the red shots before dying.
-silverspawn went blue, tried to use weak visitor, and claims he was blocked. It would be difficult to manufacture this because blue has 2 energy, and I think Haddock tried to weak visit as well. So, the only scenario where scum didn't block blue is where both silver and haddock are lying.It is also to be pointed out that we have nothing but sliver's and Haddock's words that they went to blue. Scum would know that blue was blocked and safe to fakeclaim.
-Haddock, I just talked about.
I'm not caught up.-silverspawn went blue, tried to use weak visitor, and claims he was blocked. It would be difficult to manufacture this because blue has 2 energy, and I think Haddock tried to weak visit as well. So, the only scenario where scum didn't block blue is where both silver and haddock are lying.It is also to be pointed out that we have nothing but sliver's and Haddock's words that they went to blue. Scum would know that blue was blocked and safe to fakeclaim.
-Haddock, I just talked about.
I mean, yes sure...but in that case it just means that more scum went red, not less. My whole point was that scum went red to block blue and block cop, which means at least 2 scum went red. If you're arguing that these guys might have gone red, and then some other scum went blue, it doesn't really change things because all the "went red" players (except gkrieg), are just players that didn't bother to claim.-silverspawn went blue, tried to use weak visitor, and claims he was blocked. It would be difficult to manufacture this because blue has 2 energy, and I think Haddock tried to weak visit as well. So, the only scenario where scum didn't block blue is where both silver and haddock are lying.It is also to be pointed out that we have nothing but sliver's and Haddock's words that they went to blue. Scum would know that blue was blocked and safe to fakeclaim.
-Haddock, I just talked about.
What you just said is true of pretty much everyone, no?Yes it is. But for some reason theorel was PoEing people based on very possibly fake claims, which is not sound logic.
Well, scum would know they'd end up looking rather scummy going to red, so naturally they would be more prone to lie about it. Then if that just leaves the townies who won't lie and happened to also go to red, then that's not exactly a brilliant outcome.I mean, yes sure...but in that case it just means that more scum went red, not less. My whole point was that scum went red to block blue and block cop, which means at least 2 scum went red. If you're arguing that these guys might have gone red, and then some other scum went blue, it doesn't really change things because all the "went red" players (except gkrieg), are just players that didn't bother to claim.-silverspawn went blue, tried to use weak visitor, and claims he was blocked. It would be difficult to manufacture this because blue has 2 energy, and I think Haddock tried to weak visit as well. So, the only scenario where scum didn't block blue is where both silver and haddock are lying.It is also to be pointed out that we have nothing but sliver's and Haddock's words that they went to blue. Scum would know that blue was blocked and safe to fakeclaim.
-Haddock, I just talked about.
Vote: Gkrieg L-1
Gkrieg is the least present of the people in the top half. So that seems like a good choice.
What did you do tonight?Vote: Gkrieg L-1
Gkrieg is the least present of the people in the top half. So that seems like a good choice.
How does this make sense?
Haven't had time to catch up. I'm not scum. If the case on me is just that I was in the top half of the draft and on the wagon yesterday, those are pretty crappy reasons. Of the votes on me, the ones from LaLight and iguana look the scummiest. No real reasoning, and very lazy votes.
What did you do tonight?Vote: Gkrieg L-1
Gkrieg is the least present of the people in the top half. So that seems like a good choice.
How does this make sense?
Haven't had time to catch up. I'm not scum. If the case on me is just that I was in the top half of the draft and on the wagon yesterday, those are pretty crappy reasons. Of the votes on me, the ones from LaLight and iguana look the scummiest. No real reasoning, and very lazy votes.
I don't agree that they'd necessarily know thisWell, scum would know they'd end up looking rather scummy going to red, so naturally they would be more prone to lie about it. Then if that just leaves the townies who won't lie and happened to also go to red, then that's not exactly a brilliant outcome.I mean, yes sure...but in that case it just means that more scum went red, not less. My whole point was that scum went red to block blue and block cop, which means at least 2 scum went red. If you're arguing that these guys might have gone red, and then some other scum went blue, it doesn't really change things because all the "went red" players (except gkrieg), are just players that didn't bother to claim.-silverspawn went blue, tried to use weak visitor, and claims he was blocked. It would be difficult to manufacture this because blue has 2 energy, and I think Haddock tried to weak visit as well. So, the only scenario where scum didn't block blue is where both silver and haddock are lying.It is also to be pointed out that we have nothing but sliver's and Haddock's words that they went to blue. Scum would know that blue was blocked and safe to fakeclaim.
-Haddock, I just talked about.
What? Why would you waste an action?What did you do tonight?Vote: Gkrieg L-1
Gkrieg is the least present of the people in the top half. So that seems like a good choice.
How does this make sense?
Haven't had time to catch up. I'm not scum. If the case on me is just that I was in the top half of the draft and on the wagon yesterday, those are pretty crappy reasons. Of the votes on me, the ones from LaLight and iguana look the scummiest. No real reasoning, and very lazy votes.
Did not take a first action, moved redwards, used the lift.
Why not? Saving cards is good if you have nothing efficient to do. And taking lifts when you don't need to is inefficient.What? Why would you waste an action?What did you do tonight?Vote: Gkrieg L-1
Gkrieg is the least present of the people in the top half. So that seems like a good choice.
How does this make sense?
Haven't had time to catch up. I'm not scum. If the case on me is just that I was in the top half of the draft and on the wagon yesterday, those are pretty crappy reasons. Of the votes on me, the ones from LaLight and iguana look the scummiest. No real reasoning, and very lazy votes.
Did not take a first action, moved redwards, used the lift.
I was actually looking forward to hearing gkrieg's reply.Why not? Saving cards is good if you have nothing efficient to do. And taking lifts when you don't need to is inefficient.What? Why would you waste an action?What did you do tonight?Vote: Gkrieg L-1
Gkrieg is the least present of the people in the top half. So that seems like a good choice.
How does this make sense?
Haven't had time to catch up. I'm not scum. If the case on me is just that I was in the top half of the draft and on the wagon yesterday, those are pretty crappy reasons. Of the votes on me, the ones from LaLight and iguana look the scummiest. No real reasoning, and very lazy votes.
Did not take a first action, moved redwards, used the lift.
What? Why would you waste an action?What did you do tonight?Vote: Gkrieg L-1
Gkrieg is the least present of the people in the top half. So that seems like a good choice.
How does this make sense?
Haven't had time to catch up. I'm not scum. If the case on me is just that I was in the top half of the draft and on the wagon yesterday, those are pretty crappy reasons. Of the votes on me, the ones from LaLight and iguana look the scummiest. No real reasoning, and very lazy votes.
Did not take a first action, moved redwards, used the lift.
I wrote a big post on how we should coordinate lift usage based on the same misunderstanding on day1, before i double checked and realized it didn't work that way...Err... for 2 people to successfully use the same lift in the same phase, there need to be 3 more people who tried and failed to use that lift... is that not correct?More than 1 person can use a lift in the same phase (every 4 people can use a lift). I'm not sure why you say "unless a lot of people tried using the lift". What does people trying to use the lift have to do with it?It looks like my actions didn't do anything apparently, but I had a very poor choice of cards to play. I refilled the central poolOne of you is lying obviously... only one of you could have used the lift in phase 2. Unless there is like a lot of people that tried using the lift.
PPE: 1 (not only me apparently)
Is there any reason why we shouldn't lynch Awaclus except that he also does anti town play as town?
Is there any reason why we shouldn't lynch Awaclus
Boo!He did the hammer with protest. That could also have been staged.
We weren't supposed to do any Space-Alerty things during N0, right? Cos I totally lost track of time and did nothing.
What? Why would you waste an action?What did you do tonight?Vote: Gkrieg L-1
Gkrieg is the least present of the people in the top half. So that seems like a good choice.
How does this make sense?
Haven't had time to catch up. I'm not scum. If the case on me is just that I was in the top half of the draft and on the wagon yesterday, those are pretty crappy reasons. Of the votes on me, the ones from LaLight and iguana look the scummiest. No real reasoning, and very lazy votes.
Did not take a first action, moved redwards, used the lift.
I just wanted to get down to the bottom level, and also didn't want to ruin everyone else's plans. I figured there would be more congestion at the central lift, and since I couldn't go blueward, I figured going red and using the lift would be the best choice, that would help other people get down the lift. I had a couple of other reasons that I would rather not say.
Got through Day 1 and have to go. His theory talk shows he is very motivated and I think he was sincere in his recommendations. His voting seemed haphazard and he was a main driver of the cheesyJelly lynch, though inconsistently so. I went along with it too, so it would be hypocritical to scumread him just for that, but it's there to consider.Problem is that most of the upper half players are active.
I don't want to lynch any active players today.
What? Why would you waste an action?What did you do tonight?Vote: Gkrieg L-1
Gkrieg is the least present of the people in the top half. So that seems like a good choice.
How does this make sense?
Haven't had time to catch up. I'm not scum. If the case on me is just that I was in the top half of the draft and on the wagon yesterday, those are pretty crappy reasons. Of the votes on me, the ones from LaLight and iguana look the scummiest. No real reasoning, and very lazy votes.
Did not take a first action, moved redwards, used the lift.
I just wanted to get down to the bottom level, and also didn't want to ruin everyone else's plans. I figured there would be more congestion at the central lift, and since I couldn't go blueward, I figured going red and using the lift would be the best choice, that would help other people get down the lift. I had a couple of other reasons that I would rather not say.
Well, go ahead and not say them then. But vote: gkrieg
Back to L-1 (I think?)
Keep in mind there's still 2 red actions missing - apparently, they've just vanished into thin air? mcmc may have got one, but the other is still a question mark.Hot take: scum!gkrieg commuted.
Keep in mind there's still 2 red actions missing - apparently, they've just vanished into thin air? mcmc may have got one, but the other is still a question mark.Hot take: scum!gkrieg commuted.
Well he can take energy away from red, and prevent being Copped.Keep in mind there's still 2 red actions missing - apparently, they've just vanished into thin air? mcmc may have got one, but the other is still a question mark.Hot take: scum!gkrieg commuted.
Why would he anyway? Copped for that matter
Hurr durr. If only there wasn't EFHW's result, I would be voting silver like there's no tomorrow.
Oh well. Vote:theorel The whole "I'll wiggle the mouse" thing was super duper town-cred-grabby anyway. I guess I should reread though.
Hurr durr. If only there wasn't EFHW's result, I would be voting silver like there's no tomorrow.
Oh well. Vote:theorel The whole "I'll wiggle the mouse" thing was super duper town-cred-grabby anyway. I guess I should reread though.
Now reread Haddock. His day one was very much like gkrieg's. The way he came in could have been staged.This is me trying to insist.Boo!He did the hammer with protest. That could also have been staged.
We weren't supposed to do any Space-Alerty things during N0, right? Cos I totally lost track of time and did nothing.
Day two he has given some thought to claiming strategies and his color claiming idea was sensible, even though the rationale was unclear (at least to me) until it was too late to follow it. He could have insisted earlier on - didn't because too busy? because actually didn't care (is scum)? because unsure of himself?
So, I can put scum or town narratives on his play. Reserving judgement for the moment.
I don't have the energy to fight faust.if we claim blue/red movement, we're giving scum more data to figure out who left the upper deck. of course if people used actions, we need to communicate this anyway, but in other cases I don't see any benefit.I see a fairly decent benefit to it in that it forces scum fakeclaims to start boxing themselves in before they have too much other information.
Also how does left-right information help with up-down information? There are still way too many possibilities for them to get anything out of it.
But whatever.
Yeah awa's behaviour is particularly terrible the more I think about it.
vote: silver for provoking AwaclusWhat the hell even is this? Do you not acknowledge that Awaclus's play has been horrific (even by his standards)?
All that said, I think some minimal coordination is fine. For instance, I volunteer to wiggle the mouse during the first space-phase (assuming I'm not lynched). The danger is, if I'm scum I can choose not to wiggle the mouse and potentially mess up other players using lifts when they don't expect. But, I'm town, so I know that won't happen. You'll just have to judge if the danger of me being scum is worth it, and plan accordingly. I don't even know when I'm going during the night-phase at this stage, so even if I'm scum I can't plan to mess people up any more than if I didn't volunteer for it. And of course, if the mouse isn't wiggled tomorrow you'll know I'm scum.I mean look at that whole paragraph. Even including a "I'm town". Plus implication that he should be townread once the mouse is wiggled.
Anyways, I'm just gonna vote for someone and hope to shake myself out of theory talk (ha! like I can stop myself). vote: CheesyJelly. There, I'll try to do some actual scum-hunting or something tomorrow.Super-late RVS vote.
At least I know why CheesyJelly is being voted for. And...well, it's not a bad reason. It seems like he's following the authority that he's suspicious of. Of course it seems that way because he didn't actually give a reason for his vote. He also jumped on the Haddock v. iguana thing, which as far as I can tell is pretty much random.Badly-reasoned jump on the Jelly wagon after he briefly voted somewhere else.
Okay, I can go back to my (formerly 100% random) vote of vote: CheesyJelly.
That said, I think the RR vote is better than the iguana one...not sure how I feel about it relative the CJ lynch.Hedge hedge.
Increasingly looking to maybe keep the "RR is scum" notion alive while continuing to vote Jelly....large snipI don't think this is true, gonna get some data to back it up but if I am correct as I think I am, cheesy has been the dominant wagon amidst attempts to jump back to iguana (whos wagon was first), over to roadrunner, and finally to you. So scum is not happy settling on cheesy, remember there is four scum so they can make up half of a wagon themselves, obviously they don't want to but there haven't been tons of I would vote cj but comments which I would expect from scum waiting to hop on a town wagon.
As for the wagons, CJ's not the towniest guy around, and I do admittedly have half the information, but it's starting to reek of a dual town wagon. There's no concern, no frantic movement, everybody seems content to just let the wagons ride out. Which naturally includes 4 scum. I'll look dumb when CJ ends up being scum...eh. I'll vote there if needed, but I agree with basically everybody else that there are better options. Such as RR.
I'm looking forward to seeing that information. I think it's worthwhile also seeing how the attempted RR-wagon has gone. At this moment, it looks like the RR wagon has had a harder time building than the CJ wagon, with maybe even more people claiming he's scummy. Anyways, if so it might be a strong argument for RR being scum as well.
So, is scum avoiding the CJ wagon, because they don't want to get their hands dirty and CJ's town, or are they hoping that they can get away without him being lynched somehow? I mean, if he's scum scum would have hammered for the cred right?Oh, look at me, I'm so townie for having second thoughts on the player I pushed all D1 and still I'm not unvoting!
Or maybe they're just not around to try to do that? I dunno, maybe I'm just getting cold feet. I prefer being absent at deadlines...
I think if someone did something scummy overnight it's awaclus, and I think just shrugging and moving on is exactly what scum would want to happen. I'm feeling less benevolent towards too-scummy-to-be-scum since O abused the notion as scum.Super easy scumread here in D2. Just go for the player who did something questionable.
I'm still a little under the weather, so I'm gonna stick a vote: awaclus here...not sure how often I'll be checking back in.
There's the possibility Lalight went down, filled Central, and moved blue...but I'm not sure why that would result in the comment you quoted:Same happens here. None of these bear much original thought.I definitely can say my night was good :)I'm good with vote: Lalight
Maybe Space will do it for me?Hurr durr. If only there wasn't EFHW's result, I would be voting silver like there's no tomorrow.
Oh well. Vote:theorel The whole "I'll wiggle the mouse" thing was super duper town-cred-grabby anyway. I guess I should reread though.
You also want to add a space in the vote
It doesn't clear him, but of all the actions he could have taken as scum, at least some are targeting, most prominently Roleblock, Cop, kill.Hurr durr. If only there wasn't EFHW's result, I would be voting silver like there's no tomorrow.
Oh well. Vote:theorel The whole "I'll wiggle the mouse" thing was super duper town-cred-grabby anyway. I guess I should reread though.
There's 4 scums, anyone could do the kill, EFHW's result doesn't clear silver in one bit. Other than that we don't know if EFHW is telling the truth as well.
What the hell even is this? Do you not acknowledge that Awaclus's play has been horrific (even by his standards)?How is this an alignment tell?
I could vote either Awaclus or gkrieg at this point but prefer vote: Awaclus
How is what an alignment tell?What the hell even is this? Do you not acknowledge that Awaclus's play has been horrific (even by his standards)?How is this an alignment tell?
I could vote either Awaclus or gkrieg at this point but prefer vote: Awaclus
How is what an alignment tell?What the hell even is this? Do you not acknowledge that Awaclus's play has been horrific (even by his standards)?How is this an alignment tell?
I could vote either Awaclus or gkrieg at this point but prefer vote: Awaclus
If that is what faust means, I'm not sure how it's even a question.How is what an alignment tell?What the hell even is this? Do you not acknowledge that Awaclus's play has been horrific (even by his standards)?How is this an alignment tell?
I could vote either Awaclus or gkrieg at this point but prefer vote: Awaclus
Awaclus' play obviously
If that is what faust means, I'm not sure how it's even a question.How did Awaclus sabotage town?
Awaclus sabotaged town during the night.
Maybe that comes from town!Awa not paying attention, but it's just as likely to come from scum!Awa knowing that his reputation for psychotic town play will get him a free pass (oh look what happened).
@Awaclus: Can you get a printout again tonight? It'd also be nice to have a 2nd from somebody, whether they state their intentions to or not now.
Awaclus sabotaged town during the night.
I didn't sabotage town, I sabotaged Skumpy. Vote: HaddockThe way I see it, you mainly sabotaged yourself. But that isn't exactly a smart thing to do as scum.
But, Awaclus, can you now release the info on red actions, as I don't suppose we will get any more claims?
Sounds good at this point.But, Awaclus, can you now release the info on red actions, as I don't suppose we will get any more claims?
Should I just claim the full status print-out?
wait, no one wiggled the mouse? vote: theorel
wait, no one wiggled the mouse? vote: theorel
Wiggling the mouse is not a mafia game action so it won't show up in the status print-out.
Here's the status print-out: 1*Commute, 1*RB and 1*Track
Here's the status print-out: 1*Commute, 1*RB and 1*Track
.. how can the red energy even be at 0 with only 1 action used? That's literally impossible.
Vote: Awaclus
Well right now the only possible answer is that you're lying scum, so you better come up with an alternative answer soon.Here's the status print-out: 1*Commute, 1*RB and 1*Track
.. how can the red energy even be at 0 with only 1 action used? That's literally impossible.
Vote: Awaclus
That's a good question. I don't know, but that is certainly the status print-out I received.
Now reread Haddock. His day one was very much like gkrieg's. The way he came in could have been staged.This is me trying to insist.Boo!He did the hammer with protest. That could also have been staged.
We weren't supposed to do any Space-Alerty things during N0, right? Cos I totally lost track of time and did nothing.
Day two he has given some thought to claiming strategies and his color claiming idea was sensible, even though the rationale was unclear (at least to me) until it was too late to follow it. He could have insisted earlier on - didn't because too busy? because actually didn't care (is scum)? because unsure of himself?
So, I can put scum or town narratives on his play. Reserving judgement for the moment.I don't have the energy to fight faust.if we claim blue/red movement, we're giving scum more data to figure out who left the upper deck. of course if people used actions, we need to communicate this anyway, but in other cases I don't see any benefit.I see a fairly decent benefit to it in that it forces scum fakeclaims to start boxing themselves in before they have too much other information.
Also how does left-right information help with up-down information? There are still way too many possibilities for them to get anything out of it.
But whatever.
Yeah awa's behaviour is particularly terrible the more I think about it.vote: silver for provoking AwaclusWhat the hell even is this? Do you not acknowledge that Awaclus's play has been horrific (even by his standards)?
I could vote either Awaclus or gkrieg at this point but prefer vote: Awaclus
Also wv: faust
Commuting N1 is just not good in my opinion. It does nothing except say "I want to live and don't really care about trying to figure stuff out for town"
I think whoever commuted should 1) claim and 2) explain themself.
Man I'm kind of bummed that I misunderstood the lifts... we should definitely have coordinated for everyone to be at the lower deck by now.No. Too easy for scum to mess that up, and also no guaranteeing everybody has the needed cards. What we had for D1 seems like it
The Awaclus situation: Well, it don't look good. How he himself didn't realize the issue earlier is even worse.
The Awaclus situation: Well, it don't look good. How he himself didn't realize the issue earlier is even worse.
Why would I realize the issue? Of course I expected the energy level to match with my results so I didn't go and check if it did.
Man I'm kind of bummed that I misunderstood the lifts... we should definitely have coordinated for everyone to be at the lower deck by now.really? Like I said, I wanted to communicate when I thought it worked like you thought it worked, but then decided that not communicating was better once I realized how it actually worked.
Deadline's coming up but I'm okay with a Vote: awaclus. The status printout doesn't make sense to me and there doesn't seem to be an explanation.
No, my algorithm for picking the upper half does not include selecting the middle element of an odd-sized set in this case.
The ship appears to be functioning nominally for D2/going into Space Phase 2.
Red pool: 0
White pool: 5
Blue pool: 2
The Awaclus situation: Well, it don't look good. How he himself didn't realize the issue earlier is even worse.
Why would I realize the issue? Of course I expected the energy level to match with my results so I didn't go and check if it did.
It's not a hard calculation, friend. And what if somebody had refilled red? And you didn't care about the status of blue or white either?
I can't believe that no one took cop. I mean, just...ugh, really? No one even tried? What the crap were you people doing? Just, how does this even happen? Just as well that Awaclus didn't charge Red, because apparently it would have been wasted actions anyways. No one tried to cop, no one tried to status print-out (except Awaclus), no one tried to Track (except EFHW), heck scum could have just spent their whole turn going to lower blue, and making nk's happen. What'd everyone pass an action to make sure that we didn't end up with too many powers being used?
unvote gkrieg's not scummy any more, no more so than anyone else.
vote: AwaclusReally?
Anyway vote: gkrieg is the place to be I think.
You went to red and claim to not have done anything. That's super scummy; you could have easily used Cop and left it for scum. You claimed to not have had the cards to do what was asked of you, which is unlikely. You were in the upper half. You were on the awful Jelly wagon.Anyway vote: gkrieg is the place to be I think.
Why?
This upper half thing is still complete crap.I have shown that people in the upper half are 50% more likely scum that people in the lower half. You have yet to explain why this is "complete crap".
You went to red and claim to not have done anything. That's super scummy; you could have easily used Cop and left it for scum. You claimed to not have had the cards to do what was asked of you, which is unlikely. You were in the upper half. You were on the awful Jelly wagon.Anyway vote: gkrieg is the place to be I think.
Why?
This upper half thing is still complete crap.I have shown that people in the upper half are 50% more likely scum that people in the lower half. You have yet to explain why this is "complete crap".
How is that scummy? The fact that I didn’t have any blue cards isn’t super unlikely. Because I knew that people were expecting me to go for blue, so I wanted to block as few people as possible. How was I supposed to know that people weren’t going to go for cop?In your shoes, I would have preferred to take a Cop shot myself instead of potentially leaving it lying around for scum to pick up...
What you should be worried about is that there are 3 people (who notably aren't in the top half) who have not bothered to give any explanation about their night action. Normally, it wouldn't be so terrible, but now that we know that NOBODY went for a cop, then what the heck were they up to? Somebody blocked blue Round 2 (c'mon, obviously no one tried for WV round 3 - they wanted to go down the lift). Perhaps it was gkrieg. But as of right now, based on what people have said, he's the only person who possibly could've - and I find it very difficult to believe that he was both the only person who went red and the person who did in fact shut off blue. As I've said (and as you agreed), it's likely that it was somebody late in the order who did it. Such as, I don't know, Iguana?And what do we get out of them claiming? Fakeclaiming anything is a super easy task here. e did not say something earlier because he wasn't around. I don't see the need to reveal info about myself. iguana is somewhat scummy, but not nearly as much as gkrieg.
What you should be worried about is that there are 3 people (who notably aren't in the top half) who have not bothered to give any explanation about their night action. Normally, it wouldn't be so terrible, but now that we know that NOBODY went for a cop, then what the heck were they up to? Somebody blocked blue Round 2 (c'mon, obviously no one tried for WV round 3 - they wanted to go down the lift). Perhaps it was gkrieg. But as of right now, based on what people have said, he's the only person who possibly could've - and I find it very difficult to believe that he was both the only person who went red and the person who did in fact shut off blue. As I've said (and as you agreed), it's likely that it was somebody late in the order who did it. Such as, I don't know, Iguana?And what do we get out of them claiming? Fakeclaiming anything is a super easy task here. e did not say something earlier because he wasn't around. I don't see the need to reveal info about myself. iguana is somewhat scummy, but not nearly as much as gkrieg.
Well I used a Tracker but it didn't work, then I went to blue and used Weak Visitor, but it failed!What you should be worried about is that there are 3 people (who notably aren't in the top half) who have not bothered to give any explanation about their night action. Normally, it wouldn't be so terrible, but now that we know that NOBODY went for a cop, then what the heck were they up to? Somebody blocked blue Round 2 (c'mon, obviously no one tried for WV round 3 - they wanted to go down the lift). Perhaps it was gkrieg. But as of right now, based on what people have said, he's the only person who possibly could've - and I find it very difficult to believe that he was both the only person who went red and the person who did in fact shut off blue. As I've said (and as you agreed), it's likely that it was somebody late in the order who did it. Such as, I don't know, Iguana?And what do we get out of them claiming? Fakeclaiming anything is a super easy task here. e did not say something earlier because he wasn't around. I don't see the need to reveal info about myself. iguana is somewhat scummy, but not nearly as much as gkrieg.
OK. Give me a fakeclaim of what you did last night.
Well I used a Tracker but it didn't work, then I went to blue and used Weak Visitor, but it failed!What you should be worried about is that there are 3 people (who notably aren't in the top half) who have not bothered to give any explanation about their night action. Normally, it wouldn't be so terrible, but now that we know that NOBODY went for a cop, then what the heck were they up to? Somebody blocked blue Round 2 (c'mon, obviously no one tried for WV round 3 - they wanted to go down the lift). Perhaps it was gkrieg. But as of right now, based on what people have said, he's the only person who possibly could've - and I find it very difficult to believe that he was both the only person who went red and the person who did in fact shut off blue. As I've said (and as you agreed), it's likely that it was somebody late in the order who did it. Such as, I don't know, Iguana?And what do we get out of them claiming? Fakeclaiming anything is a super easy task here. e did not say something earlier because he wasn't around. I don't see the need to reveal info about myself. iguana is somewhat scummy, but not nearly as much as gkrieg.
OK. Give me a fakeclaim of what you did last night.
Here's the thing about gkrieg: what was the scum discussion like the night before (let's even assume gkrieg is being truthful about not having blue). "Yeah, g13, you go Red and Down and take away the commute shot on the way. Nobody will suspect you of anything when you deny having used a 3rd action". If you're scum, why would gkrieg NOT take the cop shot away from town? And why do you think scum didn't use a copflip?Commuting is better than taking the Cop Shot away, since it takes away one shot at the Cop by removing energy AND protects you from investigation.
blitz lynch!That seems unlike gkrieg.
vote: iguana
I think Faust is townieThat is exactly the kind of read I expect to be the first thing scum utters.
vote: CJWagon jump at 4th position.
Haven't had the time to get back to this. I'm hoping to be less busy tomorrow, but no promises. In my attempting to follow along he looks scummier than iguana.
Sorry guys, this has probably been my lowest activity for a game ever. Reading along very sporadically and missing entire pages. I get townie vibes from Mcmcsalot, and faust is also up there. I don't get what is scummy about skumpy. CJ still seems scummy to me and iguana has started looking townier.Would love an explanation of how iguana was townie.
But, of course, he doesn't.The people who don't want a Jelly lynch need to coordinate. If there is to be a serious alternative to that lynch, everyone not voting Jelly must be on the same wagon. And say what you will about whether or not Jelly is scummy, but it's always better for analysis if there's actually an alternative.
The other things that we can still call wagons are Skumpy and RR. Skumpy is not going to happen as Skumpy himself is off the Jelly wagon and will hardly self-vote. So, I present you the alternative: RR.
Unless anyone's up for the classic last-minute Awaclus lynch.
I would vote for RR.
Noted that it's of course entirely possible that scum!gkrieg went for the RB, but unexpectedly did not get it due to the Awaclus/Skumpy situation.No wait... that would have been the first action. Nevermind.
Here's the thing about gkrieg: what was the scum discussion like the night before (let's even assume gkrieg is being truthful about not having blue). "Yeah, g13, you go Red and Down and take away the commute shot on the way. Nobody will suspect you of anything when you deny having used a 3rd action". If you're scum, why would gkrieg NOT take the cop shot away from town? And why do you think scum didn't use a copflip?Commuting is better than taking the Cop Shot away, since it takes away one shot at the Cop by removing energy AND protects you from investigation.
Here's the thing about gkrieg: what was the scum discussion like the night before (let's even assume gkrieg is being truthful about not having blue). "Yeah, g13, you go Red and Down and take away the commute shot on the way. Nobody will suspect you of anything when you deny having used a 3rd action". If you're scum, why would gkrieg NOT take the cop shot away from town? And why do you think scum didn't use a copflip?Commuting is better than taking the Cop Shot away, since it takes away one shot at the Cop by removing energy AND protects you from investigation.
Copping also takes away an energy, and the plan was to fill the pool anyways. It's not suspicious if the tracker tracks you because you used an honest cop result. And commuting doesn't protect you from investigation - either the cop/tracker knows you commuted or somebody has to claim roleblocker.
Here's the thing about gkrieg: what was the scum discussion like the night before (let's even assume gkrieg is being truthful about not having blue). "Yeah, g13, you go Red and Down and take away the commute shot on the way. Nobody will suspect you of anything when you deny having used a 3rd action". If you're scum, why would gkrieg NOT take the cop shot away from town? And why do you think scum didn't use a copflip?Commuting is better than taking the Cop Shot away, since it takes away one shot at the Cop by removing energy AND protects you from investigation.
Copping also takes away an energy, and the plan was to fill the pool anyways. It's not suspicious if the tracker tracks you because you used an honest cop result. And commuting doesn't protect you from investigation - either the cop/tracker knows you commuted or somebody has to claim roleblocker.
Why do you protect gkrieg? What is your scumread?
If anybody else had done what Awaclus did yesterday, they would have been lynched eons ago. Except it was Awaclus. So he gets a free pass.You say this as if it were true.
gkrieg: Not going for cop makes no sense as town. Not going for cop, then admitting to not going for cop, makes no sense as scum. He claimed color movement really early on...what did he expect to hide behind?Too scummy to be scum.
vote: faust just to register my read. Not actually expecting that anyone will care.
I could go for gkrieg eventually, just to get a lynch through, I guess. Can someone please summarise the case in simple terms?
You went to red and claim to not have done anything. That's super scummy; you could have easily used Cop and left it for scum. You claimed to not have had the cards to do what was asked of you, which is unlikely. You were in the upper half. You were on the awful Jelly wagon.Anyway vote: gkrieg is the place to be I think.
Why?
vote: AwaclusReally?
This is ridiculous.
I was only voting Awaclus because his story didn't match up with public info. You voted after that was clarified...vote: AwaclusReally?
This is ridiculous.
I actually was sheeping you! The gkrieg wagon was looking scummy to me. Catching up before switching.
Now I'm caught up. vote: gkriegCaught up & ready to hammer apperently...
I thought there was also some value in keeping both wagons going a bit longer. It did result in a much clarified case on gkrieg.I was only voting Awaclus because his story didn't match up with public info. You voted after that was clarified...vote: AwaclusReally?
This is ridiculous.
I actually was sheeping you! The gkrieg wagon was looking scummy to me. Catching up before switching.
I thought there was also some value in keeping both wagons going a bit longer. It did result in a much clarified case on gkrieg.I was only voting Awaclus because his story didn't match up with public info. You voted after that was clarified...vote: AwaclusReally?
This is ridiculous.
I actually was sheeping you! The gkrieg wagon was looking scummy to me. Catching up before switching.
PPE Were we waiting for something?
Do we need to last minute switch? I've only skimmed recent posts, but it sounded like there were thoughts about an Awaclus wagon.
CheesyJelly is not here to claim.
We're going to need to install some sort of plan today that prevents scum from using the Secret Hatch. It probably involves sending some cards around. I have ideas.
ah, one player can play more than 1 card at night this way... if they do that, we can just catch them on claiming? oO seems like unnecessary complication I'd sayWell, this may shock you, but scum can actually lie.
also I wouldn't be surprised at faust/silver/x teamMe? Seriously? What else do I need to do?
ah, one player can play more than 1 card at night this way... if they do that, we can just catch them on claiming? oO seems like unnecessary complication I'd sayWell, this may shock you, but scum can actually lie.
Not if we're at MyLo. Which is likely to happen soon.ah, one player can play more than 1 card at night this way... if they do that, we can just catch them on claiming? oO seems like unnecessary complication I'd sayWell, this may shock you, but scum can actually lie.
Yeah, but there's so much ways we can catch them not doing stuff they claimed to do.
also I wouldn't be surprised at faust/silver/x teamMe? Seriously? What else do I need to do?
Not if we're at MyLo. Which is likely to happen soon.ah, one player can play more than 1 card at night this way... if they do that, we can just catch them on claiming? oO seems like unnecessary complication I'd sayWell, this may shock you, but scum can actually lie.
Yeah, but there's so much ways we can catch them not doing stuff they claimed to do.
Ironic that I was excited for this game precisely because it had mechanics that I can use to not die early.also I wouldn't be surprised at faust/silver/x teamMe? Seriously? What else do I need to do?
I played games with you where you were overwhelmingly townie (NM with you and Dylan comes to my mind first). To believe you're town I'm sorry but I need to see your flip. Especially given that you live for the third day in a row! Anyway now I can't imagine the world where silver is town, so I'm not super eager to lynch you.
Also, if anyone did a print out, you should wait with thatIt may get difficult to claim by actions. I think we should just do an order. Roughly off-wagon folks first and then on-wagon.
Also, if anyone did a print out, you should wait with thatIt may get difficult to claim by actions. I think we should just do an order. Roughly off-wagon folks first and then on-wagon.
on-wagon by order -> off-wagon by order
Except we might have to wait a while for Skumpy's claim...
what is an energy distribution?
can someone count the probability of being in the top half twice in a row?
can someone count the probability of being in the top half twice in a row?
Isn't it roughly 25%?
I think it's highly unlikely that scum in the top half N1 requested to be in the top half N2...because it looks suspicious, and scum generally prefers not to look suspicious. That doesn't mean that scum didn't end up in the top half, but if scum requested to be in the top half, likely they were in the bottom half before. There's a reasonably good chance that scum didn't request being in the top half at all, given how hard it was pressed yesterday.
Players who were top half both nights are myself, silver, and Awaclus. Players who switched into top half are faust and iguana.
How much detail do we want people to claim? Like, I can claim actions but not results, claim some results?
What is ship status also?
I think it's highly unlikely that scum in the top half N1 requested to be in the top half N2...because it looks suspicious, and scum generally prefers not to look suspicious. That doesn't mean that scum didn't end up in the top half, but if scum requested to be in the top half, likely they were in the bottom half before. There's a reasonably good chance that scum didn't request being in the top half at all, given how hard it was pressed yesterday.
Players who were top half both nights are myself, silver, and Awaclus. Players who switched into top half are faust and iguana.
How much detail do we want people to claim? Like, I can claim actions but not results, claim some results?
What is ship status also?
How much detail do we want people to claim? Like, I can claim actions but not results, claim some results?I want full claims.
How much detail do we want people to claim? Like, I can claim actions but not results, claim some results?I want full claims.
That wastes too much time and I don't see that it gives much of a benefit.How much detail do we want people to claim? Like, I can claim actions but not results, claim some results?I want full claims.
I would prefer two rounds i think. First I say I tracked someone and after everyone said what they did i say who i tracked
That wastes too much time and I don't see that it gives much of a benefit.How much detail do we want people to claim? Like, I can claim actions but not results, claim some results?I want full claims.
I would prefer two rounds i think. First I say I tracked someone and after everyone said what they did i say who i tracked
That wastes too much time and I don't see that it gives much of a benefit.How much detail do we want people to claim? Like, I can claim actions but not results, claim some results?I want full claims.
I would prefer two rounds i think. First I say I tracked someone and after everyone said what they did i say who i tracked
I feel like both of my results are most valuable when scum doesn't know what's on them as compared to when scum does know. That said some information is probably worthwhile...
I'm supposed to claim second, which is fine, whatever...
I think the most important thing that will be helpful is: I got a status printout. There were no cop switches, there is at least 1 cop result. I'm pretty sure based on energy that I got the only one.
I also did zone monitoring, so I know which color someone was at some point during the night (it's not hard to figure out when). I feel like saving the results and target of that action for later is more valuable for town, because it hinders scum from fake-claiming.
I'm pretty sure based on energy that I got the only one.Meh, downgrade that. It's possible based on energy that I got the only print-out.
faust is town. I Weak-Visitored him again and this time it actually went through.Ok, great. Now claim the rest of your actions, and also explicitly what you did N1.
Eh. Fine.
So I didn't have a lift in the first 6 cards. I went blue, nothing, WV faust.
And N2 I went WV faust, lift, Zone Monitor Skumpy.
Convenient.Why is that convenient?
Convenient.Why is that convenient?
Convenient.Why is that convenient?
On N1 you could kill instead of "nothing". Deck Monitoring of Skumpy is convenient.
I can see two possibilities:
1) faust and SS being in a scum-team making a bold move;
2) SS not WVing faust;
Bonus possibility: SS WVing faust while his scumbuddy RBed him.
Convenient.Why is that convenient?
On N1 you could kill instead of "nothing". Deck Monitoring of Skumpy is convenient.
I can see two possibilities:
1) faust and SS being in a scum-team making a bold move;
2) SS not WVing faust;
Bonus possibility: SS WVing faust while his scumbuddy RBed him.
it's called confirmation bias.
I had no prior model of how good your reads usually are, but they're wrong here.
I don't scumread you though fwiw.
I had no prior model of how good your reads usually are, but they're wrong here.
I don't scumread you though fwiw.
Because you know I'm town?
Also skumpy was in the white zone. If anyone can confirm this, go ahead.
faust is town. I Weak-Visitored him again and this time it actually went through.
But this is for the end of the turn...so it's saying he was still in white at the end of phase 2. Which is useful if only because it means that he definitely didn't use a cop shot.Also skumpy was in the white zone. If anyone can confirm this, go ahead.
well, on the first turn he was in a white zone, that's an open information, he started this turn from there
I have two, actually. I got confused and thought only one person could get a print-out each round, so I tried twice. Based on what I see there, I think the people who took actions can just claim. There isn't much need for complications. Once it was known there was a print-out, the likelihood of lying went way down. One of the people might want to wait to be last.I'm pretty sure based on energy that I got the only one.Meh, downgrade that. It's possible based on energy that I got the only print-out.
I'm pretty sure zone monitoring happens immediately.But this is for the end of the turn...so it's saying he was still in white at the end of phase 2. Which is useful if only because it means that he definitely didn't use a cop shot.Also skumpy was in the white zone. If anyone can confirm this, go ahead.
well, on the first turn he was in a white zone, that's an open information, he started this turn from there
I have two, actually. I got confused and thought only one person could get a print-out each round, so I tried twice. Based on what I see there, I think the people who took actions can just claim. There isn't much need for complications. Once it was known there was a print-out, the likelihood of lying went way down. One of the people might want to wait to be last.I'm pretty sure based on energy that I got the only one.Meh, downgrade that. It's possible based on energy that I got the only print-out.
What about this makes you think that silver is town?faust is town. I Weak-Visitored him again and this time it actually went through.
Good enough for me. silverspawn and faust can be town for the day
I see no reason to deviate from the claiming order. There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your status printout.I have two, actually. I got confused and thought only one person could get a print-out each round, so I tried twice. Based on what I see there, I think the people who took actions can just claim. There isn't much need for complications. Once it was known there was a print-out, the likelihood of lying went way down. One of the people might want to wait to be last.I'm pretty sure based on energy that I got the only one.Meh, downgrade that. It's possible based on energy that I got the only print-out.
... why are you okay with just using a claiming order from LaLight? Why not make up your own? At least put yourself last.Must be the shortest time between creating an IC and discrediting it on record.
faust has a point here.What about this makes you think that silver is town?faust is town. I Weak-Visitored him again and this time it actually went through.
Good enough for me. silverspawn and faust can be town for the day
The main reason is not to get bogged down like we did Day 2.I see no reason to deviate from the claiming order. There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your status printout.I have two, actually. I got confused and thought only one person could get a print-out each round, so I tried twice. Based on what I see there, I think the people who took actions can just claim. There isn't much need for complications. Once it was known there was a print-out, the likelihood of lying went way down. One of the people might want to wait to be last.I'm pretty sure based on energy that I got the only one.Meh, downgrade that. It's possible based on energy that I got the only print-out.
ok then keep the rest of the order as is, but go last.How about you claim your hand?
Yes, and given the rest of silver's claimed actions the zone monitoring happened in phase 3 implying that skumpy was still in white at the end of phase 2, since his phase-3 action would have happened after the monitoring.I'm pretty sure zone monitoring happens immediately.But this is for the end of the turn...so it's saying he was still in white at the end of phase 2. Which is useful if only because it means that he definitely didn't use a cop shot.Also skumpy was in the white zone. If anyone can confirm this, go ahead.
well, on the first turn he was in a white zone, that's an open information, he started this turn from there
"Clarification for Lower Red/Lower Blue C actions: if the target player is ahead of you in turn order, you will know where they moved to this turn; if they are behind you in turn order, you see where they ended the turn before."
ok then keep the rest of the order as is, but go last.How about you claim your hand?
What about this makes you think that silver is town?faust is town. I Weak-Visitored him again and this time it actually went through.
Good enough for me. silverspawn and faust can be town for the day
So noone can say "oh I didn't do this action that I was supposed to do because I didn't have the cards." Like, you know, the thing the confirmed scum said.ok then keep the rest of the order as is, but go last.How about you claim your hand?
??? that just seems stupid. Why does that help anyone?
4 * (Red-A), 2 * (Red-B), (Blue-A)You have 4 Red-As?
What is ship status also?
I was really not your turn by the way.
I just thought to myself, we should have full claims of everyone's hands at all times during the game, included in the claiming order.Day 1 Skumpy tried to get people to say just if they couldn't do the actions for the top three people, and most people weren't even willing to do that.
I just thought to myself, we should have full claims of everyone's hands at all times during the game, included in the claiming order.Day 1 Skumpy tried to get people to say just if they couldn't do the actions for the top three people, and most people weren't even willing to do that.
Eh. Fine.OK so you and I have done exactly the same things except targetting different people...
So I didn't have a lift in the first 6 cards. I went blue, nothing, WV faust.
And N2 I went WV faust, lift, Zone Monitor Skumpy.
Well Vote: Haddock then.Eh. Fine.OK so you and I have done exactly the same things except targetting different people...
So I didn't have a lift in the first 6 cards. I went blue, nothing, WV faust.
And N2 I went WV faust, lift, Zone Monitor Skumpy.
Don't want to claim who I monitored until there's a few more claims.
Well Vote: Haddock then.Eh. Fine.OK so you and I have done exactly the same things except targetting different people...
So I didn't have a lift in the first 6 cards. I went blue, nothing, WV faust.
And N2 I went WV faust, lift, Zone Monitor Skumpy.
Don't want to claim who I monitored until there's a few more claims.
Yeah I don't understand why people are doing nothing either. You always get new cards, so might as well try an action just to make sure.Well theorel is ahead of you in order, but given that he already did a partial claim I'd say you're good to go.
Also I think my claim will make me pretty towny ;)
It seems very unlikely that it wouldn't occur to either silver or Haddock to sit there doing nothing when they could have Tracked or Roleblocked someone.
Each player may only gain one single mafia-game action shot (e.g. cop, doctor) per Space Phase (not per round). Subsequent attempts to gain any type of shot will be treated as a failed card action.
You can certainly still try for both...It seems very unlikely that it wouldn't occur to either silver or Haddock to sit there doing nothing when they could have Tracked or Roleblocked someone.
You're still not making sense. What have you done with faust?Each player may only gain one single mafia-game action shot (e.g. cop, doctor) per Space Phase (not per round). Subsequent attempts to gain any type of shot will be treated as a failed card action.
You can certainly still try for both...It seems very unlikely that it wouldn't occur to either silver or Haddock to sit there doing nothing when they could have Tracked or Roleblocked someone.
You're still not making sense. What have you done with faust?Each player may only gain one single mafia-game action shot (e.g. cop, doctor) per Space Phase (not per round). Subsequent attempts to gain any type of shot will be treated as a failed card action.
It's completely outrageous how by now we have 4 people out of 4 claimants that have claimed to have wasted an action.Who's the fourth btw? I know gkrieg, silver, and Haddock have all claimed to have wasted an action...not sure who else did.
EFHW got two printouts.It's completely outrageous how by now we have 4 people out of 4 claimants that have claimed to have wasted an action.Who's the fourth btw? I know gkrieg, silver, and Haddock have all claimed to have wasted an action...not sure who else did.
You can certainly still try for both...It seems very unlikely that it wouldn't occur to either silver or Haddock to sit there doing nothing when they could have Tracked or Roleblocked someone.
You're still not making sense. What have you done with faust?Each player may only gain one single mafia-game action shot (e.g. cop, doctor) per Space Phase (not per round). Subsequent attempts to gain any type of shot will be treated as a failed card action.
Why would you have to doctor? Couldn't you just WV twice?You can certainly still try for both...It seems very unlikely that it wouldn't occur to either silver or Haddock to sit there doing nothing when they could have Tracked or Roleblocked someone.
You're still not making sense. What have you done with faust?Each player may only gain one single mafia-game action shot (e.g. cop, doctor) per Space Phase (not per round). Subsequent attempts to gain any type of shot will be treated as a failed card action.
Why? If the blue actions are disabled, nothing works anyway and I lose a card. if the blue actions are not disabled, I do doctor instead of WV, which is worse.
Why would you have to doctor? Couldn't you just throw a card away?I could...
I could......Why would you have to doctor? Couldn't you just WV twice? (edited to: Couldn't you just throw a card away?)
Why? If the blue actions are disabled, nothing works anyway and I lose a card. if the blue actions are not disabled, I do doctor instead of WV, which is worse.
Please don't.Why would you have to doctor? Couldn't you just throw a card away?I could...
I copped RR. Townie. I gave Faust cards. Are we full claiming?So you would have to have been in Red at the start of your turn. Which leads to the question... what on earth were you doing N1?
Why have you not used a lift during N1?I've already explained this.
It seems very unlikely that it wouldn't occur to either silver or Haddock to sit there doing nothing when they could have Tracked or Roleblocked someone.Waste.
At least you're explaining yourself.You can certainly still try for both...It seems very unlikely that it wouldn't occur to either silver or Haddock to sit there doing nothing when they could have Tracked or Roleblocked someone.
You're still not making sense. What have you done with faust?Each player may only gain one single mafia-game action shot (e.g. cop, doctor) per Space Phase (not per round). Subsequent attempts to gain any type of shot will be treated as a failed card action.
In particular let's suppose players 4 and 5 both happen to go for Weak Visitor...
If they both do nothing for 2nd round and weak visit round 3 we get only a single visit from 4.
But if they both try to weak visit on both rounds 2 and 3 we get 2 weak visits.
Similarly if scum blocks the round-3 action, but fails to block the round-2 action, then if you take a null action you achieve NOTHING, but if you try twice you actually get your action off.
In both of these cases the difference between trying once and trying twice is that we get an extra pro-town action out of trying twice.
People should be trying to get something out of every card play, especially if you have a glut of a single action-type (which you did). There is abosolutely NO REASON for you not to have tried twice night 1 for weak visitor. And no reason for Haddock to do the same.
I can confirm that iguana was in the red zone on turn step 3.I copped RR. Townie. I gave Faust cards. Are we full claiming?So you would have to have been in Red at the start of your turn. Which leads to the question... what on earth were you doing N1?
I copped RR. Townie. I gave Faust cards. Are we full claiming?Hey cool!
That is just about the scummiest thing that happened... of course it was RR.I copped RR. Townie. I gave Faust cards. Are we full claiming?Hey cool!
Might as well claim: I tried to weak visit which failed, then I moved downwards and put 3 energy to blue pool.
Yeah I have them.I can confirm that iguana was in the red zone on turn step 3.I copped RR. Townie. I gave Faust cards. Are we full claiming?So you would have to have been in Red at the start of your turn. Which leads to the question... what on earth were you doing N1?
So we have that at least.
Faust I assume you got those cards?
Oh man, we should have just not used any actions, then we'd still have full energy! How stupid we have been...It seems very unlikely that it wouldn't occur to either silver or Haddock to sit there doing nothing when they could have Tracked or Roleblocked someone.Waste.
Of.
Energy.
How is giving us more energy scummy?That is just about the scummiest thing that happened... of course it was RR.I copped RR. Townie. I gave Faust cards. Are we full claiming?Hey cool!
Might as well claim: I tried to weak visit which failed, then I moved downwards and put 3 energy to blue pool.
You didn't give us any more energy, you just grabbed some energy from our pool and put it in the least useful place possible.How is giving us more energy scummy?That is just about the scummiest thing that happened... of course it was RR.I copped RR. Townie. I gave Faust cards. Are we full claiming?Hey cool!
Might as well claim: I tried to weak visit which failed, then I moved downwards and put 3 energy to blue pool.
I'd like to hear more claiming from theorel soon.
Otherwise I am up, huh? I started in lower White, went to lower blue and did two monitoring sessions. I think with the massive towncred I have I don't need to say on whom until the rest of the claiming is done.
Awaclus is up next.
Also that EFHW was in white?I'd like to hear more claiming from theorel soon.
Otherwise I am up, huh? I started in lower White, went to lower blue and did two monitoring sessions. I think with the massive towncred I have I don't need to say on whom until the rest of the claiming is done.
Awaclus is up next.
I moved to lower blue and did zone monitoring on EFHW and Haddock (in that order), and I can confirm that Haddock was in the blue zone just like he said.
I mean, it would cost energy twice and I thought it would go through with just oneWhat? You know you can only get one action at night...but you thought that trying for a second one would use extra energy? What world are you people living in?
My reasons at the time are what I just told you. I didn't see a reason to use up an additional energy.
I feel like I missed a claim somewhere...who refilled central white?That was me.
And EFHW is also lying...so y'know 2 scum claimed is good.I feel like I missed a claim somewhere...who refilled central white?That was me.
For consolidation:Or, y'know, someone else doctored and lalight is lying?
1: Iguana - Cop, down, pass
2: silverspawn - WV, down, monitor
3: faust - blue, monitor, monitor
4: Awaclus - blue, monitor, monitor
5: theorel - printout, blue, monitor
6: Haddock - WV, down, monitor
7: LaLight - monitor, up, doctor
8: Skumpy - ???
9: e - wiggled, red, cop
10: Roadrunner - wv(fail), down, monitor
11: EFHW - printout, printout, ?
Skumpy we know stayed central (at least according to silverspawn).
No missed claim, no one claimed to refill central white. Also no one claimed the Tracker shot, and no one has yet claimed the doctor shot.
vote: Haddock, If he actually used the Blue lift Lalight would be blocked.
Lalight was not blocked by virtue of the fact that someone did in fact use a doctor shot last night. Thus Haddock is lying.
Obviously this requires either skumpy to have done this or for scum to have used a doctor shot for some reason...For consolidation:Or, y'know, someone else doctored and lalight is lying?
1: Iguana - Cop, down, pass
2: silverspawn - WV, down, monitor
3: faust - blue, monitor, monitor
4: Awaclus - blue, monitor, monitor
5: theorel - printout, blue, monitor
6: Haddock - WV, down, monitor
7: LaLight - monitor, up, doctor
8: Skumpy - ???
9: e - wiggled, red, cop
10: Roadrunner - wv(fail), down, monitor
11: EFHW - printout, printout, ?
Skumpy we know stayed central (at least according to silverspawn).
No missed claim, no one claimed to refill central white. Also no one claimed the Tracker shot, and no one has yet claimed the doctor shot.
vote: Haddock, If he actually used the Blue lift Lalight would be blocked.
Lalight was not blocked by virtue of the fact that someone did in fact use a doctor shot last night. Thus Haddock is lying.
vote: lalight
Have you ever played space alert?Oh man, we should have just not used any actions, then we'd still have full energy! How stupid we have been...It seems very unlikely that it wouldn't occur to either silver or Haddock to sit there doing nothing when they could have Tracked or Roleblocked someone.Waste.
Of.
Energy.
space, can you confirm that there has been no mod error?
Ok best theory I have is Efhw and lalight are both scum and tried to set up EFHWs printout thing for towncred.Why would there be a connection between me and Lalight here?
Jeez that's weak.
But it has to be something like that. Unless someone has misread their QT
I think I literally just explained it.Ok best theory I have is Efhw and lalight are both scum and tried to set up EFHWs printout thing for towncred.Why would there be a connection between me and Lalight here?
Jeez that's weak.
But it has to be something like that. Unless someone has misread their QT
It was actually my printout, although EFHW also has a printout...which means EFHW, Lalight, and myself would all have to be lying.I think I literally just explained it.Ok best theory I have is Efhw and lalight are both scum and tried to set up EFHWs printout thing for towncred.Why would there be a connection between me and Lalight here?
Jeez that's weak.
But it has to be something like that. Unless someone has misread their QT
If lalight says he went from lower to upper blue, he must be lying. The only motivation he has to lie about doctoring (or to doctor in the first place, as scum ) is to make your printout look good.
Updating the consolidation:
1: Iguana - Cop RR (town), down, pass
2: silverspawn - WV faust (survived), down, monitor Skumpy (white)
3: faust - blue, monitor (?), monitor (?)
4: Awaclus - blue, monitor EFHW (white), monitor Haddock (blue)
5: theorel - printout (1 tracker, 1 cop, 1 doctor, 1 WV), blue, monitor RR (blue)
6: Haddock - WV, down, monitor
7: LaLight - monitor silver (?), up, doctor faust
8: Skumpy - ???
9: e - wiggled, red, cop Skumpy (fail)
10: Roadrunner - wv (fail), down, transfer energy to blue
11: EFHW - replenish, printout (1 tracker, 1 cop, 1 doctor, 1 WV), printout
In which case we found the scumteam after Haddock is dead!It was actually my printout, although EFHW also has a printout...which means EFHW, Lalight, and myself would all have to be lying.I think I literally just explained it.Ok best theory I have is Efhw and lalight are both scum and tried to set up EFHWs printout thing for towncred.Why would there be a connection between me and Lalight here?
Jeez that's weak.
But it has to be something like that. Unless someone has misread their QT
If lalight says he went from lower to upper blue, he must be lying. The only motivation he has to lie about doctoring (or to doctor in the first place, as scum ) is to make your printout look good.
Red pool: 1
White pool: 5
Blue pool: 2
Updating the consolidation:
1: Iguana - Cop RR (town), down, pass
2: silverspawn - WV faust (survived), down, monitor Skumpy (white)
3: faust - blue, monitor (?), monitor (?)
4: Awaclus - blue, monitor EFHW (white), monitor Haddock (blue)
5: theorel - printout (1 tracker, 1 cop, 1 doctor, 1 WV), blue, monitor RR (blue)
6: Haddock - WV, down, monitor
7: LaLight - monitor silver (?), up, doctor faust
8: Skumpy - ???
9: e - wiggled, red, cop Skumpy (fail)
10: Roadrunner - wv (fail), down, transfer energy to blue
11: EFHW - replenish, printout (1 tracker, 1 cop, 1 doctor, 1 WV), printout
Red pool: 0
White pool: 0
Blue pool: 3
Based on energy and assuming claims are accurate, we should have 1 red action, 2 white actions, and 2 blue actions.
Basically, based on energy and printouts, only two blue actions were taken. So yeah.Well, Haddock's action would have failed, so that's not really evidence.
I think lynching Haddock sound pretty good right now. Did I miss it somewhere? Who did Haddock claim to visit?
Lift-C Blue-A Blue-B Red-C 2x Blue-CI assume the 2x refers to the Blue-C, not the Red-C?
Lift-C Blue-A Blue-B Red-C 2x Blue-CI assume the 2x refers to the Blue-C, not the Red-C?
I also think I will be dead tonight by the wayI had hoped that you might be able to get a Commute. Seems not, too bad.
I also think I will be dead tonight by the wayI had hoped that you might be able to get a Commute. Seems not, too bad.
Let's wait out the rest of the claims to see if we can save you.
Well yeah but if Haddock flips scum you're basically an IC. e could still be scum and is thus less of a priority.I also think I will be dead tonight by the wayI had hoped that you might be able to get a Commute. Seems not, too bad.
Let's wait out the rest of the claims to see if we can save you.
There's also e on the upper deck though he may as well be scum
Well yeah but if Haddock flips scum you're basically an IC. e could still be scum and is thus less of a priority.I also think I will be dead tonight by the wayI had hoped that you might be able to get a Commute. Seems not, too bad.
Let's wait out the rest of the claims to see if we can save you.
There's also e on the upper deck though he may as well be scum
4 * (Red-A), 2 * (Red-B), (Blue-A)Too bad that silver claimed inability to lift. I had a mind to send him up and Doctor you.
Too bad that silver claimed inability to lift.
Wait. Nevermind. I think I am wrong with all that thinking I just did. Now I have other thoughts. But first.... sleepYeah, Haddock's weak visit would have failed because of silver's...so you can use that to rethink everything. Haddock still lied because he claimed to use the lift when it was unavailable (assuming Lalight is town, which still seems likeliest).
Can someone summarize why Haddock is scum? Going on a flight, will read D3 on it, maybe it will be obvious.
Can someone summarize why Haddock is scum? Going on a flight, will read D3 on it, maybe it will be obvious.Haddock, pos 6 in player order tonight, claimed to have used the blue lift in phase 2.
also, by the way, I saw the request for replacement in Mafia Hub. Interesting
Lift-AWait, you also pass on taking an action? Have we ever heard what you did N1?
Lift-B x2
Lift-C
Blue-B
Red-A
Red-C
I was in a rush N1 and accidentally typed a card I didn't have. So I only did two things N1.Lift-AWait, you also pass on taking an action? Have we ever heard what you did N1?
Lift-B x2
Lift-C
Blue-B
Red-A
Red-C
And what things?I was in a rush N1 and accidentally typed a card I didn't have. So I only did two things N1.Lift-AWait, you also pass on taking an action? Have we ever heard what you did N1?
Lift-B x2
Lift-C
Blue-B
Red-A
Red-C
Track and liftAnd what things?I was in a rush N1 and accidentally typed a card I didn't have. So I only did two things N1.Lift-AWait, you also pass on taking an action? Have we ever heard what you did N1?
Lift-B x2
Lift-C
Blue-B
Red-A
Red-C
Why did everyone go blue after many people said only scum go to blue? And how many lower blue people do we have?My magnificent plan will be released as soon as we have the last claim from RR.
I'm interested to see how Faust can prevent secret Hutchings because it seems like scum is maybe already there.
Hmmm...conspiracy-theory-wise. It's technically possible that Lalight was never in lower blue, since I think the only reason for him being there is that he filled central uselessly yesterday.I like it. My vote for lalight stands.
Awaclus should be able to confirm that though, I think. For myself, I got a mod update that my attempt to fill central failed (because it was already filled). So, assuming Awaclus is town, can you confirm that your attempt to fill central failed because Lalight had already filled it?
Since my claim was literally saying "I did the same as silver, only after" I didnt think I needed to clarify that my wv failed.Updating the consolidation:
1: Iguana - Cop RR (town), down, pass
2: silverspawn - WV faust (survived), down, monitor Skumpy (white)
3: faust - blue, monitor (?), monitor (?)
4: Awaclus - blue, monitor EFHW (white), monitor Haddock (blue)
5: theorel - printout (1 tracker, 1 cop, 1 doctor, 1 WV), blue, monitor RR (blue)
6: Haddock - WV, down, monitor
7: LaLight - monitor silver (?), up, doctor faust
8: Skumpy - ???
9: e - wiggled, red, cop Skumpy (fail)
10: Roadrunner - wv (fail), down, transfer energy to blue
11: EFHW - replenish, printout (1 tracker, 1 cop, 1 doctor, 1 WV), printout
So, the sum of things is that we have two people who have claimed to weak visit and like a million print outs that say only 1 weak visit happened
Haddock needs to claim who he weak visited
Lift-C Blue-A Blue-B Red-C 2x Blue-CNo, you're just lying.
And vote: Haddock in mind after we plan the stuff. I haven't messed up anything.
How do you get that I'm likelier scum than lalight?Wait. Nevermind. I think I am wrong with all that thinking I just did. Now I have other thoughts. But first.... sleepYeah, Haddock's weak visit would have failed because of silver's...so you can use that to rethink everything. Haddock still lied because he claimed to use the lift when it was unavailable (assuming Lalight is town, which still seems likeliest).
I wouldn't consider them misleading, simply stated without reason. But, here's the reasons that I believe Lalight over you:How do you get that I'm likelier scum than lalight?Wait. Nevermind. I think I am wrong with all that thinking I just did. Now I have other thoughts. But first.... sleepYeah, Haddock's weak visit would have failed because of silver's...so you can use that to rethink everything. Haddock still lied because he claimed to use the lift when it was unavailable (assuming Lalight is town, which still seems likeliest).
One of us is lying. It's 50-50. If you have a read, explain it otherwise your probabilities are just misleading.
I wouldn't consider them misleading, simply stated without reason. But, here's the reasons that I believe Lalight over you:How do you get that I'm likelier scum than lalight?Wait. Nevermind. I think I am wrong with all that thinking I just did. Now I have other thoughts. But first.... sleepYeah, Haddock's weak visit would have failed because of silver's...so you can use that to rethink everything. Haddock still lied because he claimed to use the lift when it was unavailable (assuming Lalight is town, which still seems likeliest).
One of us is lying. It's 50-50. If you have a read, explain it otherwise your probabilities are just misleading.
I think you're likelier scum because your claim of actions was easily faked by simply at each point copying silver's claim. You've never made a unique statement regarding your night actions, at each point you've claimed relatively soon after silver's claim (unless I'm misremembering). I think you had no good idea of what you would do as town, and so have conveniently copied a town player's claims of activity. That's why I think you're likelier scum than lalight.
There's also the fact that Lalight has actually done things at night, and you've done nothing. And Awaclus can confirm whether Lalight in fact filled central white during N1...obviously if he says that it didn't happen then that would change my mind. Awaclus: can you say whether your fill-central-white action failed? (Recheck your quicktopic, since it might have been corrected after the start of today, as mine was).
Can someone explain to me why it was a bad call to move energy into blue? Because I was planning on doing something similar to that tonight if I was low in the order.
Can someone explain to me why it was a bad call to move energy into blue? Because I was planning on doing something similar to that tonight if I was low in the order.
It takes energy away from red and white, which are both generally speaking more useful than blue.Can someone explain to me why it was a bad call to move energy into blue? Because I was planning on doing something similar to that tonight if I was low in the order.
@Awaclus: can you say whether your fill-central-white action failed? (Recheck your quicktopic, since it might have been corrected after the start of today, as mine was).
(Asked separately so that it's harder for you to overlook)
But someone did use doctor.How do you get that I'm likelier scum than lalight?Wait. Nevermind. I think I am wrong with all that thinking I just did. Now I have other thoughts. But first.... sleepYeah, Haddock's weak visit would have failed because of silver's...so you can use that to rethink everything. Haddock still lied because he claimed to use the lift when it was unavailable (assuming Lalight is town, which still seems likeliest).
One of us is lying. It's 50-50. If you have a read, explain it otherwise your probabilities are just misleading.
I took two unsuccessful actions and moved bluewardsRoadrunner is town from iguana's investigation.
vote: Lalight then.Why are you so sure Awaclus is town? You also don't account for the dictor action N2.
So, to clarify this:
Lalight claimed as N1 action: refilled central pool+went to Blue.
This implies Lalight filled central pool in round 2 of night 1.
Player order for N1 is:
1: Awaclus
2: Skumpy
3: theorel
4: gkrieg
5: silverspawn
6: Haddock
7: EFHW
8: faust
9: mcmcsalot
10: e
11: Iguana
12: LaLight
13: Roadrunner
So, between Lalight in round 2 and awaclus in round 3, the only person to act was Roadrunner.
Roadrunner claimed his N1 actions were:QuoteI took two unsuccessful actions and moved bluewardsRoadrunner is town from iguana's investigation.
So, the central pool, if filled by lalight would still be full during Awaclus' turn.
Now my initial belief was that this was meaningless (I was informed as of N1 that all my actions were successful). But I was updated after this last night that my round 3 action should have failed. It is possible that space clarified this for me and not awaclus, but that seems highly unlikely, and hopefully will be corrected before we lynch lalight if it's the case.
This means that lalight is now contradicting 2 players instead of 1, so hence the vote change. It's possible I'm missing something here, and am open to someone pointing it out. But this seems relatively clear-cut from my perspective...I don't think that awaclus would hang himself out to dry for Haddock in this case.
I copped RR. Townie. I gave Faust cards. Are we full claiming?So I am to believe that for some reason you switched your claimed actions here.
I will cop, since commuting is pointless as we are planning to block the scum killWell, we will block the scum kill only if we lynch correctly, as I think trying to block it with 3 scum still alive will almost certainly fail, and we learn not enough.
There's also something to be said about just lynching iguana. We know he started today in upper red and he still did not provide any explanation for what he did there N1.Isn't Haddock basically outed already? We don't have any explanation for the contradiction in his claim.
Plus if LaLight is town, this mean scum cannot kill him without outing Haddock.
Well the explanation is that LaLight is lying.There's also something to be said about just lynching iguana. We know he started today in upper red and he still did not provide any explanation for what he did there N1.Isn't Haddock basically outed already? We don't have any explanation for the contradiction in his claim.
Plus if LaLight is town, this mean scum cannot kill him without outing Haddock.
I'm not sure awaclus is town. I'm believing Awaclus + Haddock over Lalight. Because it is more likely that a contradiction originates with 1 player than with 2.vote: Lalight then.Why are you so sure Awaclus is town? You also don't account for the dictor action N2.
So, to clarify this:
Lalight claimed as N1 action: refilled central pool+went to Blue.
This implies Lalight filled central pool in round 2 of night 1.
Player order for N1 is:
1: Awaclus
2: Skumpy
3: theorel
4: gkrieg
5: silverspawn
6: Haddock
7: EFHW
8: faust
9: mcmcsalot
10: e
11: Iguana
12: LaLight
13: Roadrunner
So, between Lalight in round 2 and awaclus in round 3, the only person to act was Roadrunner.
Roadrunner claimed his N1 actions were:QuoteI took two unsuccessful actions and moved bluewardsRoadrunner is town from iguana's investigation.
So, the central pool, if filled by lalight would still be full during Awaclus' turn.
Now my initial belief was that this was meaningless (I was informed as of N1 that all my actions were successful). But I was updated after this last night that my round 3 action should have failed. It is possible that space clarified this for me and not awaclus, but that seems highly unlikely, and hopefully will be corrected before we lynch lalight if it's the case.
This means that lalight is now contradicting 2 players instead of 1, so hence the vote change. It's possible I'm missing something here, and am open to someone pointing it out. But this seems relatively clear-cut from my perspective...I don't think that awaclus would hang himself out to dry for Haddock in this case.
He could be - did he claim doctor before or after Theorel stated there was a doctor action? I think it was before, but I'll check.Well the explanation is that LaLight is lying.There's also something to be said about just lynching iguana. We know he started today in upper red and he still did not provide any explanation for what he did there N1.Isn't Haddock basically outed already? We don't have any explanation for the contradiction in his claim.
Plus if LaLight is town, this mean scum cannot kill him without outing Haddock.
He claimed 30 minutes after I claimed what the night actions were after faust kept prodding me to finish my claim.He could be - did he claim doctor before or after Theorel stated there was a doctor action? I think it was before, but I'll check.Well the explanation is that LaLight is lying.There's also something to be said about just lynching iguana. We know he started today in upper red and he still did not provide any explanation for what he did there N1.Isn't Haddock basically outed already? We don't have any explanation for the contradiction in his claim.
Plus if LaLight is town, this mean scum cannot kill him without outing Haddock.
So, if lalight flips town then Awaclus+Haddock are guaranteed scum.
Ok, yes I see that Lalight claimed doctor after Theorel revealed the print-out contents. Not super risky because so many people had already claimed, and Skumpy's action are unknown. Though for him to be lying he would have to have done the tracking and Skumpy the doctoring. It seems more likely that each of them would have chosen actions where they were. This would also mean Lalight lied about zone monitoring silver, or lied about being in lower white the day before. I don't have time this minute, but I'll try to track down if his movements are possible.
So, if lalight flips town then Awaclus+Haddock are guaranteed scum.
Is this correct? In other words, do I know that LaLight is scum?
The unusuality of lalight being scum is the doctor use, but scum could have used doctor as an attempted block of town blue actions (both weak visits and doctors).This hadn't occurred to me since I'm a complete idiot. Doctoring people to prevent WVing from working is a legitimate (though pretty damn hit-and-miss) strategy for scum - especially since it also prevents town from doctoring and uses up energy.
This also makes faust slightly less of an IC than he was. Especially true if silver claimed on D2 that he would wv faust last night. Did you do so, silver? I can't remember.Doesn't look like silver claimed his potential Wv target on D2, as far as I can see, so scum would have had to get pretty lucky to doctor silver. Making faust still pretty damn close to IC.
An "action failed" result is not generated in cases where a legal available card play merely results in a null action. For energy, topping up or moving zero energy is still considered successful play, and for mafia-game shots or targeted Space Pase actions (e.g. card draw), the Space Phase action is still considered successful even if a shot is won without a target having been supplied at the time the card was played.
I mean Iam stupid, but I a not stupid enough to openly counterclaim someone who went just before me, as scum. I simply state what I did so cleverer men figure out how to use my cards best. I also doctored faust. how would I know if anyone else doctored anyone else, I think I wasn't the last to claimPretty sure I claimed after you, bud, ie. I caught you in a lie. (Admittedly without realising I had done so)
I'm pretty sure I've caught iguana in a lie.
He said he got a result for his cop action but there was no energy in the Red pool N2.
vote: iguana.
Looking at the Lalight/Haddock question, Skumpy was confirmed in white at the end of round 2. So he did not use doctor, meaning Lalight is telling the truth.
I think it maybe contradicts awaclus's claim...?An "action failed" result is not generated in cases where a legal available card play merely results in a null action. For energy, topping up or moving zero energy is still considered successful play, and for mafia-game shots or targeted Space Pase actions (e.g. card draw), the Space Phase action is still considered successful even if a shot is won without a target having been supplied at the time the card was played.
Does this contradict Theorel's claim?
by the way, I didn't know doctor can heal Weak Visitors. Isn't Weak Visit happening before doctoring? Usually?I actually don't know, I just assumed it would probably work, didn't think about it.
An "action failed" result is not generated in cases where a legal available card play merely results in a null action. For energy, topping up or moving zero energy is still considered successful play, and for mafia-game shots or targeted Space Pase actions (e.g. card draw), the Space Phase action is still considered successful even if a shot is won without a target having been supplied at the time the card was played.
Does this contradict Theorel's claim?
Oh, I didn't think about it blocking WV in that sense...I just meant by using up the energy.The unusuality of lalight being scum is the doctor use, but scum could have used doctor as an attempted block of town blue actions (both weak visits and doctors).This hadn't occurred to me since I'm a complete idiot. Doctoring people to prevent WVing from working is a legitimate (though pretty damn hit-and-miss) strategy for scum - especially since it also prevents town from doctoring and uses up energy.
This also makes faust slightly less of an IC than he was. Especially true if silver claimed on D2 that he would wv faust last night. Did you do so, silver? I can't remember.
If Skumpy is in white Round 2, he can only have done white actions or a movement Rounds 1 and 3.No.
I'm truly surprised at your reaction to the news about iguana.
I was going to check about Lalight's movements. I'll do that next.
I'm pretty sure I've caught iguana in a lie.I thought there was 1 energy left in the pool.
He said he got a result for his cop action but there was no energy in the Red pool N2.
vote: iguana.
Looking at the Lalight/Haddock question, Skumpy was confirmed in white at the end of round 2. So he did not use doctor, meaning Lalight is telling the truth.
looking at iguana/haddock/rr?
Why are we not just asking skumpy to tell us what he did?Good plan!
Ok no I misunderstood this.If Skumpy is in white Round 2, he can only have done white actions or a movement Rounds 1 and 3.No.
I'm truly surprised at your reaction to the news about iguana.
I was going to check about Lalight's movements. I'll do that next.
It checks at the end of the round.
Doctor THEN move, he's in white round 2.
I would like to hear what caused the error in my qt...but I don't think it's actually relevant to anything. I apologize for all the confusion.Oh it's all good. At least you are Townie McTownzor now.
@faust: if Haddock ends up town, there's the four of us you have slotted for filling central. Any opinion of what we should do if we're not the designated central-energy filler?Well, I don't want to go into too much detail. Some monitoring never hurts. Having a status printout may be useful in case scum tries to Copswitch e. Doctoring is also an option.
In fact I will make sure you can ask him soon. Look:Why are we not just asking skumpy to tell us what he did?Good plan!
I'm pretty sure I've caught iguana in a lie.A better response to this, which is another reason I don't like iguana voting based on this: how do you know the red pool was empty n2?
He said he got a result for his cop action but there was no energy in the Red pool N2.
vote: iguana.
Looking at the Lalight/Haddock question, Skumpy was confirmed in white at the end of round 2. So he did not use doctor, meaning Lalight is telling the truth.
looking at iguana/haddock/rr?
Wait, we still have to think about awaclus.
He claims that his refill action failed?
I literally just asked him.Oh man, that joke was not intended to be subtle. I guess neither is your attempted faketownslip.
Can we prod him? I haven't seen him.
Request prod on skumpy
vote count please
Um.Wait, we still have to think about awaclus.
He claims that his refill action failed?
No, I never claimed that. My refill action was successful.
It didn't read like a joke.I literally just asked him.Oh man, that joke was not intended to be subtle. I guess neither is your attempted faketownslip.
Can we prod him? I haven't seen him.
Request prod on skumpy
Can you whisper "SKUMPY IS DEAD" in his ear?vote count please
As usual on Thursday nights, I'm in the same location as Haddock, and therefore mod stuff won't be happening till I'm home late tonight. Sorry!
Just, you know, don't Weak Visit. With one death we won't know if it's due to WV or just mafia NK.
An "action failed" result is not generated in cases where a legal available card play merely results in a null action. For energy, topping up or moving zero energy is still considered successful play, and for mafia-game shots or targeted Space Pase actions (e.g. card draw), the Space Phase action is still considered successful even if a shot is won without a target having been supplied at the time the card was played.
Does this contradict Theorel's claim?
It contradicts what I was told in my quicktopic...I'm asking about it there. But it implies that awaclus would not have received an action failed result (I just shouldn't have either).
@Haddock you definitely claimed before Lalight, as lalight was the last player to claim anything.
@EFHW: YOU GOT A PRINTOUT YOU KNOW THAT A COP ACTION SUCCEEDED. (also there was 1 red energy in the pool, per beginning of night phase/late yesterday when Space corrected the energy readings)
I'm town.
That's a reason.
I have little else.
This is an impossible situation for me, but hell. If I have to be lynched for lalight to go down then fine. I'm too busy for this game anyway.
I just want to make sure we haven't missed anything so we know FOR SURE that lalight is scum.
Definitely no-one should be lynching me until space has answered all outstanding questions.
Perhaps we could have a centralized location where this information is up to date?
I'm pretty sure I've caught iguana in a lie.
He said he got a result for his cop action but there was no energy in the Red pool N2.
vote: iguana.
Looking at the Lalight/Haddock question, Skumpy was confirmed in white at the end of round 2. So he did not use doctor, meaning Lalight is telling the truth.
looking at iguana/haddock/rr?
Maybe edit the energy into the opening posts of D1 and D2?
mod. Can doctoring save weak visitors?
The A and B actions in each room may each only be used once in each of the three rounds of a Space Phase. Subsequent players attempting to use the same action will fail at the card action. (The card will be lost, but no energy will be drawn from the pool).Worth noting that this applies to the energy as well...so we can't for instance fill central pool at start of round 2 and then refill it at end of round 2, we MUST wait until round 3. We were messing this up all over the place when planning out night 1 actions (or at least I was)...I really wish I'd realized it earlier, we could have ended up with a better night 1 plan.
vote: Lalight then.So we're back to this, no?
So, to clarify this:
Lalight claimed as N1 action: refilled central pool+went to Blue.
This implies Lalight filled central pool in round 2 of night 1.
Player order for N1 is:
1: Awaclus
2: Skumpy
3: theorel
4: gkrieg
5: silverspawn
6: Haddock
7: EFHW
8: faust
9: mcmcsalot
10: e
11: Iguana
12: LaLight
13: Roadrunner
So, between Lalight in round 2 and awaclus in round 3, the only person to act was Roadrunner.
Roadrunner claimed his N1 actions were:QuoteI took two unsuccessful actions and moved bluewardsRoadrunner is town from iguana's investigation.
So, the central pool, if filled by lalight would still be full during Awaclus' turn.
Now my initial belief was that this was meaningless (I was informed as of N1 that all my actions were successful). But I was updated after this last night that my round 3 action should have failed. It is possible that space clarified this for me and not awaclus, but that seems highly unlikely, and hopefully will be corrected before we lynch lalight if it's the case.
This means that lalight is now contradicting 2 players instead of 1, so hence the vote change. It's possible I'm missing something here, and am open to someone pointing it out. But this seems relatively clear-cut from my perspective...I don't think that awaclus would hang himself out to dry for Haddock in this case.
Okay, I got it worked out. I'm just a moron.I realized the additional impact of this is that only 1 player can pass cards per space round. So, i.e. Haddock and silver can't both pass cards tonight. I don't think we'll be in the situation where that would be needed, since we're lynching Haddock...but we should be sure not to plan to have 2 people pass cards in the same round.
Relevant rule is:QuoteThe A and B actions in each room may each only be used once in each of the three rounds of a Space Phase. Subsequent players attempting to use the same action will fail at the card action. (The card will be lost, but no energy will be drawn from the pool).Worth noting that this applies to the energy as well...so we can't for instance fill central pool at start of round 2 and then refill it at end of round 2, we MUST wait until round 3. We were messing this up all over the place when planning out night 1 actions (or at least I was)...I really wish I'd realized it earlier, we could have ended up with a better night 1 plan.
It may still be worth it for multiple players that act before EFHW to fill central pool (in case the other player is scum)? Also, since you'll get an action failed result, you'll know whether the other player did so. Assuming that Haddock is town, and we're acting on faust's alternative action set that tries to get energy to Red. If Haddock is scum, then we're good regardless, and this is probably useless information for the moment.
Nope. I'm still misunderstanding.You're using doctoring as a scumtell?
Yugh. This setup is complex.
Anyway, we now have confirmation that scum do have good reason to use doctor. So can we lynch lalight please?
No.Nope. I'm still misunderstanding.You're using doctoring as a scumtell?
Yugh. This setup is complex.
Anyway, we now have confirmation that scum do have good reason to use doctor. So can we lynch lalight please?
That was a bunch of lazy votes.Hold on now.
I'm still leaning the other way. vote: HaddockUnannounced l-1.
JustThat was a bunch of lazy votes.Hold on now.
All the votes on me are not lazy, but somehow anyone who votes for lalight, going against the big wagon, is making a lazy vote?
Nuh-uh, you're gonna have to do better than that.
I have intent to hammer, but we also have close to 48 hours so I don't plan on hammering too soon.Well are there important things left to discuss? We shouldn't weak visit, so no need to announce that.
I am not scummier.JustThat was a bunch of lazy votes.Hold on now.
All the votes on me are not lazy, but somehow anyone who votes for lalight, going against the big wagon, is making a lazy vote?
Nuh-uh, you're gonna have to do better than that.
You'll notice that I also called EFHW's vote lazy.
I reread and it just turns out that you are scummier. These votes are just based on gut.
Actually you didn't clarify what you were referring to.JustThat was a bunch of lazy votes.Hold on now.
All the votes on me are not lazy, but somehow anyone who votes for lalight, going against the big wagon, is making a lazy vote?
Nuh-uh, you're gonna have to do better than that.
You'll notice that I also called EFHW's vote lazy.
I have intent to hammer, but we also have close to 48 hours so I don't plan on hammering too soon.Indeed. No hammers for the next 20 hours or so please. I would like to be around for twilight to post my reads.
Rr this is the first post of yours that I can remember in a while. Anything useful to contribute other than an intent to mislynch?Not really. One of you and lalight have to be scum so it's not like I'm gonna invest my time in a silverspawn reread or something, and my night actions have been minimal and already claimed. I'm also pretty content to just try and follow faust's plan (and I definitely don't think I can think of one better on my own) so I can't really think of too much to contribute.
Perhaps something resembling a reason for voting me over lalight, other than "biggest and easiest wagon to join"?Rr this is the first post of yours that I can remember in a while. Anything useful to contribute other than an intent to mislynch?Not really. One of you and lalight have to be scum so it's not like I'm gonna invest my time in a silverspawn reread or something, and my night actions have been minimal and already claimed. I'm also pretty content to just try and follow faust's plan (and I definitely don't think I can think of one better on my own) so I can't really think of too much to contribute.
so faust is really the one who needs to reconsider in order to pull this around. I find it somewhat hard to believe that you can actually find LaLight townier.Why?
I'm only about 55%/45% on LaLightI mean you are almost contradicting yourself here. Why should it be hard to believe that LaLight is townier when you yourself don't see much of a difference...?
so faust is really the one who needs to reconsider in order to pull this around. I find it somewhat hard to believe that you can actually find LaLight townier.Why?
There's no contradiction, the modest percentages are just acknowledging that the game is hard.No I mean why do you find it hard to believe that I think LaLight is tonwier?so faust is really the one who needs to reconsider in order to pull this around. I find it somewhat hard to believe that you can actually find LaLight townier.Why?
Because a majority lynch against the target endorsed by IC!faust is unlikely to happen, practically speaking.
Okay, 20 hours have passed. Now can someone please hammer since I don't think anyone has more to say?I have intent to hammer, but we also have close to 48 hours so I don't plan on hammering too soon.Indeed. No hammers for the next 20 hours or so please. I would like to be around for twilight to post my reads.
Also I have no idea why Haddock needs to wait till twilight to post his reads...Because reads that are posted before someone's alignment is certain carry less weight
Also I have no idea why Haddock needs to wait till twilight to post his reads...Because reads that are posted before someone's alignment is certain carry less weight
I don't trust human psychology enough for that.Also I have no idea why Haddock needs to wait till twilight to post his reads...Because reads that are posted before someone's alignment is certain carry less weight
I mean, post reads now and we know your alignment if/when you flip (assuming you get lynched)
Why is there no energy in the red pool?
Yall be roleblocking meWhy is there no energy in the red pool?
I am also very interested in that question
Why is there no energy in the red pool?My qt said my pulling red energy action was successful. I assumed someone before me would have filled the white pool, per faust's plan.
We will send silver and Haddock to lower red card draw, iguana should do at least 1 card draw.
Now it gets complicated. We need to make sure to power red in time for e to use an action tonight. Some steps.
1. First one in player order of {me, Awaclus, theorel, RR} goes to lower white and fills the central pool IN PHASE 2. Hopefully this person is ahead of EFHW in player order. If so, EFHW then moves to lower red and pulls energy IN PHASE 2. The pool will be full by phase 2.
2. If EFHW is ahead of everyone in the list above, then instead she fills the central pool IN PHASE 1. Then she goes to lower red and moves the energy.
3. RR will go to lower red, unless he was chosen to fill central in step 1. In phase 3, he will move energy to lower red, unless one of the following is true:
- step 1 failed to execute AND e is either ahead of EFHW or after RR in player order.
If this is the case, RR instead uses card draw.
4. e uses either Cop or Commute as soon as the red pool is filled.
5. LaLight uses Doctor on someone and goes down the lift.
?Yall be roleblocking meWhy is there no energy in the red pool?
I am also very interested in that question
I am feeling pretty confident about the game right now. We have a WV result and townie play from silverspawn/faust. We have scum!LaLight. I think EFHW is likely scum as well.3 more scum (including Lalight). In order for both investigators to be town and accurate, one of us or awaclus must be scum (assuming EFHW is scum). The only possible false-investigation result is faust (by doctor of silver). I'm not sure I particularly believe that it's likely though, I'd lean that one of the investigators is claiming investigation for town-points first.
Theorel can be scum too. How many total scum are we supposed to have?
It sounds to me like RR didn't fill the energy. While it's true the other three of you should have been able to do whatever, it would have been reasonable to back him up in case he didn't do it for some reason. I could have, too, I guess. I wish I had thought of it.You couldn't since you needed to fill Red. I couldn't because it would have been after you tried to fill Red. But it's true that faust or awaclus could have tried to fill central in case RR didn't. But RR is likely town, so I think leaving him to fill central was reasonable. Leaving you to fill Red was less likely to work, I think iguana should have backed you up on it in retrospect.
You got all mixed up by the 0 energy in Red, thought iguana had to be lying, it resulted in the first post being updated with current energy readings...Corrected typo.
I also don't fully understand the results from my actions last night. Or maybe I don't fully understand the setup. Or something else happened.
I am cool with faust or silverspawn coming up with a claim order. Let's do that, get it out of the way, then we can always lynch lalight like we should have done last night.
oh god Haddock was TOWN? Unexpected!
Sorry guys.
No.oh god Haddock was TOWN? Unexpected!
Sorry guys.
Hahaha.... Love this.
I did my assigned action. I want this day to last like 48 hours. Let's lynch LaLight
Also, faust's plan was specifically if we lynched scumfaust posted 2 plans. 1 for scum lynch 1 for non-scum lynch. The one I posted above was the non-scum lynch plan. (The scum-lynch plan was to hit C a bunch and cancel the nk).
I am cool with faust or silverspawn coming up with a claim order. Let's do that, get it out of the way, then we can always lynch lalight like we should have done last night.
I think first anyone who did not do their assigned action should claim now. To be perfectly clear, assigned actions were:
silver: Red-red-card draw
iguana: Card draw
RR: Red-Fill Central-X
EFHW: Red-Move energy-X
e: Cop or Commute
What was the point of wiggling the mouse?I am cool with faust or silverspawn coming up with a claim order. Let's do that, get it out of the way, then we can always lynch lalight like we should have done last night.
I think first anyone who did not do their assigned action should claim now. To be perfectly clear, assigned actions were:
silver: Red-red-card draw
iguana: Card draw
RR: Red-Fill Central-X
EFHW: Red-Move energy-X
e: Cop or Commute
I was on the upper deck, not the lower deck. I was next to e and didn't know when he would be moving down, so I moved over, wiggled the mouse, and moved down. No time to draw cards in a zone I wasn't in.
Basically, you gave bad instructions based on wrong information, then didn't bother to correct them when I corrected you - so I did what I thought was best.That's fine actually. I just think Tracking would have been way more useful.
oh god Haddock was TOWN? Unexpected!You must have some idea about what happened. Your claims conflicted and he was town. How did that happen if you didn't lie?
Sorry guys.
Ugh I misunderstood the plan and tried to fill red!
We're not.Ugh I misunderstood the plan and tried to fill red!
Why are we trusting iguana's result so unquestioningly?
Ugh I misunderstood the plan and tried to fill red!The plan was very clearly formulated. There is no excuse for this. I'm going to assume the scumteam is iguana/RR/LaLight.
Here's a further claiming order. Please include your current hand in your claim.Retract statement. I want hand claims only from iguana, RR and silver.
EFHW
e
theorel
Awaclus
iguana
RR
silver
faust
1. First one in player order of {me, Awaclus, theorel, RR} goes to lower white and fills the central pool IN PHASE 2.In my head I made this 'first one in the player order' and not first one of the people listed. That's pretty bad.
Since the plan called for e to use cop in round 3...I think you maybe could have guessed when he was moving down. Not that I think moving the mouse was the worst idea ever, but your reasoning is terrible. I mean if e was ever going to cop, then you knew you could use the lift during round 1.I am cool with faust or silverspawn coming up with a claim order. Let's do that, get it out of the way, then we can always lynch lalight like we should have done last night.
I think first anyone who did not do their assigned action should claim now. To be perfectly clear, assigned actions were:
silver: Red-red-card draw
iguana: Card draw
RR: Red-Fill Central-X
EFHW: Red-Move energy-X
e: Cop or Commute
I was on the upper deck, not the lower deck. I was next to e and didn't know when he would be moving down, so I moved over, wiggled the mouse, and moved down. No time to draw cards in a zone I wasn't in.
What did you mean by this?Yall be roleblocking meWhy is there no energy in the red pool?
I am also very interested in that question
What is your suspicion of silver?Here's a further claiming order. Please include your current hand in your claim.Retract statement. I want hand claims only from iguana, RR and silver.
EFHW
e
theorel
Awaclus
iguana
RR
silver
faust
What did you mean by this?Yall be roleblocking meWhy is there no energy in the red pool?
I am also very interested in that question
Okay, you're right, I should have asked better. (Assuming that you mean that someone roleblocked you) why do you believe that? If that's not what you meant, what did you mean?What did you mean by this?Yall be roleblocking meWhy is there no energy in the red pool?
I am also very interested in that question
I think he believes someone roleblocked him
Given there are only 2 scum left for tonight. I'm pretty sure we can plan actions that super-confirm iguana/roadrunner as town.
Spitballing:
Suppose roadrunner is called on to fill red again (if he doesn't we have our scum-team).
Then e investigates iguana (round 1 or 2 depending on relative order to roadrunner).
Then someone else investigates e. (maybe awaclus, silver, or efhw?)
Supposing that we can also block the nk (say by you and I each playing 2 C's)
And get 2 printouts (you and I'm leaning iguana since it is highly unlikely you are both scum)
Obviously this requires particular players to have particular cards...but I'm less concerned about which players do what, and more concerned with the counts (excepting iguana and roadrunner).
Pretty sure we can force contradictions, confirmed town-ness, or exposed scum-ness. After lynching lalight, we'll be at 6v2, so even if we fail to block the nk, and mislynch, and fail to block nk again, we're at 3v2 and the contradictor can be killed. It's possible we can set things up well enough that scum is 100% exposed by contradictory claims. This is just a vague idea at this point, which we can firm up moving forward. (Ideally remaining players would do some energy movement so that we can extend the cop chain the next night).
If we can get everyone tied up in lower central-white, and upper/lower-red, then any cop-switch that may happen will hopefully be exposed (or known between 2 players). Anyways, I think there's a winning strategy here, probably easiest once we know everyone's hands. I'm not sure that we specifically need anyone's hands first to be able to make this work.
Why is there no energy in the red pool?My qt said my pulling red energy action was successful. I assumed someone before me would have filled the white pool, per faust's plan.
Ugh I misunderstood the plan and tried to fill red!(Note: Roadrunner claimed to be in lower blue)
EFHW needs to claim. She got online, quoted a post that included claiming order, then didn't claim? Or even comment on it?
What is your suspicion of silver?Here's a further claiming order. Please include your current hand in your claim.Retract statement. I want hand claims only from iguana, RR and silver.
EFHW
e
theorel
Awaclus
iguana
RR
silver
faust
EFHW needs to claim. She got online, quoted a post that included claiming order, then didn't claim? Or even comment on it?
re-read the quote. faust said he wanted silver, iguana, and rr first.What is your suspicion of silver?Here's a further claiming order. Please include your current hand in your claim.Retract statement. I want hand claims only from iguana, RR and silver.
EFHW
e
theorel
Awaclus
iguana
RR
silver
faust
Given there are only 2 scum left for tonight. I'm pretty sure we can plan actions that super-confirm iguana/roadrunner as town.
Spitballing:
Suppose roadrunner is called on to fill red again (if he doesn't we have our scum-team).
Then e investigates iguana (round 1 or 2 depending on relative order to roadrunner).
Then someone else investigates e. (maybe awaclus, silver, or efhw?)
Supposing that we can also block the nk (say by you and I each playing 2 C's)
And get 2 printouts (you and I'm leaning iguana since it is highly unlikely you are both scum)
Obviously this requires particular players to have particular cards...but I'm less concerned about which players do what, and more concerned with the counts (excepting iguana and roadrunner).
Pretty sure we can force contradictions, confirmed town-ness, or exposed scum-ness. After lynching lalight, we'll be at 6v2, so even if we fail to block the nk, and mislynch, and fail to block nk again, we're at 3v2 and the contradictor can be killed. It's possible we can set things up well enough that scum is 100% exposed by contradictory claims. This is just a vague idea at this point, which we can firm up moving forward. (Ideally remaining players would do some energy movement so that we can extend the cop chain the next night).
If we can get everyone tied up in lower central-white, and upper/lower-red, then any cop-switch that may happen will hopefully be exposed (or known between 2 players). Anyways, I think there's a winning strategy here, probably easiest once we know everyone's hands. I'm not sure that we specifically need anyone's hands first to be able to make this work.
Oh, I guess it depends on how you read "Retract statement"...I read that as "completely ignore", you read it as "still claim, but don't claim hands."EFHW needs to claim. She got online, quoted a post that included claiming order, then didn't claim? Or even comment on it?
re-read the quote. faust said he wanted silver, iguana, and rr first.What is your suspicion of silver?Here's a further claiming order. Please include your current hand in your claim.Retract statement. I want hand claims only from iguana, RR and silver.
EFHW
e
theorel
Awaclus
iguana
RR
silver
faust
Re-read the quote. He didn't change the claim order, he just wanted partial claims from most of the people
Oh, I guess it depends on how you read "Retract statement"...I read that as "completely ignore", you read it as "still claim, but don't claim hands."EFHW needs to claim. She got online, quoted a post that included claiming order, then didn't claim? Or even comment on it?
re-read the quote. faust said he wanted silver, iguana, and rr first.What is your suspicion of silver?Here's a further claiming order. Please include your current hand in your claim.Retract statement. I want hand claims only from iguana, RR and silver.
EFHW
e
theorel
Awaclus
iguana
RR
silver
faust
Re-read the quote. He didn't change the claim order, he just wanted partial claims from most of the people
EFHW needs to claim. She got online, quoted a post that included claiming order, then didn't claim? Or even comment on it?
Gah nevermind, they tried to pull red in different rounds. I'm being dumb.Why is there no energy in the red pool?My qt said my pulling red energy action was successful. I assumed someone before me would have filled the white pool, per faust's plan.Ugh I misunderstood the plan and tried to fill red!(Note: Roadrunner claimed to be in lower blue)
Oh, right, we have another contradiction here already, cool.
So either EFHW is scum or roadrunner is scum. (and roadrunner scum implies iguana scum).
Yeah, I think we should be able to quite easily confirm whether iguana is scum tonight by using a double-cop result that doesn't involve efhw. We just need to ensure that no one can use a cop switch without exposing themselves. Thanks scum, for contradicting town :)
EFHW needs to claim. She got online, quoted a post that included claiming order, then didn't claim? Or even comment on it?
Theorel is right - faust asked for confirmation of doing the scripted moves "in the next post", so I did that, and then faust said he wanted to hear from RR, iguana and silver first. We haven't heard from silver.
PPE: I read it the way theorel did, but it doesn't really matter, since I have basically claimed. I moved red, I tried to pull energy from white, and I tried to draw cards. Drawing energy was "successful" because it doesn't require energy. Drawing cards was unsuccessful.
Here is what I did:
1) B action (commute) - failed. I misunderstood the setup for some reason. My thought was that as long as there was energy in the red pool at the beginning of the night action resolution phase (after the space phase) my action would work. Obviously incorrect. So I just wasted an action there.
2) lift down to lower red - success
3) pull 3 energy to red - "success" similar to what EFHW described. So I can say with authority that white was empty at the end of the second round of the space phase.
Here is what I did:
1) B action (commute) - failed. I misunderstood the setup for some reason. My thought was that as long as there was energy in the red pool at the beginning of the night action resolution phase (after the space phase) my action would work. Obviously incorrect. So I just wasted an action there.
2) lift down to lower red - success
3) pull 3 energy to red - "success" similar to what EFHW described. So I can say with authority that white was empty at the end of the second round of the space phase.
But why didn't you cop? It was going to be very easy for those of us without scripted actions to block the nk.
Well, right. The plan was for you to take a red action in the 3rd round. Why didn't you want to cop?Here is what I did:
1) B action (commute) - failed. I misunderstood the setup for some reason. My thought was that as long as there was energy in the red pool at the beginning of the night action resolution phase (after the space phase) my action would work. Obviously incorrect. So I just wasted an action there.
2) lift down to lower red - success
3) pull 3 energy to red - "success" similar to what EFHW described. So I can say with authority that white was empty at the end of the second round of the space phase.
But why didn't you cop? It was going to be very easy for those of us without scripted actions to block the nk.
I didn't want to. It wouldn't have worked anyway with my incorrect perception of night actions
Well, right. The plan was for you to take a red action in the 3rd round. Why didn't you want to cop?Here is what I did:
1) B action (commute) - failed. I misunderstood the setup for some reason. My thought was that as long as there was energy in the red pool at the beginning of the night action resolution phase (after the space phase) my action would work. Obviously incorrect. So I just wasted an action there.
2) lift down to lower red - success
3) pull 3 energy to red - "success" similar to what EFHW described. So I can say with authority that white was empty at the end of the second round of the space phase.
But why didn't you cop? It was going to be very easy for those of us without scripted actions to block the nk.
I didn't want to. It wouldn't have worked anyway with my incorrect perception of night actions
And actually....red was empty the entire night. So no matter what any red action failed. No way that red was filled and used up in the 3rd round.I know, I'm asking why you didn't follow the plan.
And actually....red was empty the entire night. So no matter what any red action failed. No way that red was filled and used up in the 3rd round.I know, I'm asking why you didn't follow the plan.
And actually....red was empty the entire night. So no matter what any red action failed. No way that red was filled and used up in the 3rd round.I know, I'm asking why you didn't follow the plan.
You know the plan was for him to either commute or cop, right? He just didn't bother to understand the "as soon as the red pool is filled." part.
Anyways, I'll claim...I Doctored e. Obviously it's possible that scum just targeted someone on lower deck, but I like to think that I blocked scum's kill.
If we can get everyone tied up in lower central-white, and upper/lower-red, then any cop-switch that may happen will hopefully be exposed (or known between 2 players).Want to point out that this does not work. Scum can use Cop Switch and not target the person using Cop for WIFOM.
Sorry, my intention was to still keep claiming order, just no hand claims except for those people.EFHW needs to claim. She got online, quoted a post that included claiming order, then didn't claim? Or even comment on it?
Theorel is right - faust asked for confirmation of doing the scripted moves "in the next post", so I did that, and then faust said he wanted to hear from RR, iguana and silver first. We haven't heard from silver.
PPE: I read it the way theorel did, but it doesn't really matter, since I have basically claimed. I moved red, I tried to pull energy from white, and I tried to draw cards. Drawing energy was "successful" because it doesn't require energy. Drawing cards was unsuccessful.
If we can get everyone tied up in lower central-white, and upper/lower-red, then any cop-switch that may happen will hopefully be exposed (or known between 2 players).Want to point out that this does not work. Scum can use Cop Switch and not target the person using Cop for WIFOM.
And actually....red was empty the entire night. So no matter what any red action failed. No way that red was filled and used up in the 3rd round.I know, I'm asking why you didn't follow the plan.
You know the plan was for him to either commute or cop, right? He just didn't bother to understand the "as soon as the red pool is filled." part.
Anyways, I'll claim...I Doctored e. Obviously it's possible that scum just targeted someone on lower deck, but I like to think that I blocked scum's kill.
I would like to think that too. Although I was on the lower deck at the resolution of space phase.
By default, the scum NK can only reach those players who visit the Upper Deck of the ship during a given Space Phase.You were on the upper deck for part of the night, so you were eligible for night kill. You don't have to stay on upper deck to be eligible. (I messed this up early as well).
we still haven't really heard from silver, either to know his hand, or who he made draw cards.He made me draw cards.
Why do you not want to fully plan tonight given the nk will be blocked? This seems like the perfect time to plan it. If red is not filled who didn't do their job? If we get a cop-switch, who's likely to have activated it? I'm happy to make a full plan, which you can confirm is a good one, if you just don't want to do it.I think it is easier to catch scum in a lie if we don't coordinate. Obviously some people might want to use Cop, but zone/deck monitoring are also very useful to figure out if someone used Cop Switch.
Is your opinion that iguana is scum coloring things? Because copping iguana seems like a better way of determining if he's scum than just having him attempt to block the nk.Well I'm not against also Copping iguana. I just want someone scummy to give up an action on blocking the nightkill rather than a town, and iguana is the scummiest player alive after LaLight.
I will leave the remaining actions for each person to decide on their own. Note that we are guaranteed to block the scum nightkill unless iguana is scum, in which case he will out himself by not doing the C action.Don't we need 5 Cs? It's the number of players left alive (9) halved (4,5) rounded up (5).
We lynch LaLight, then there will be only 8 players left alive.I will leave the remaining actions for each person to decide on their own. Note that we are guaranteed to block the scum nightkill unless iguana is scum, in which case he will out himself by not doing the C action.Don't we need 5 Cs? It's the number of players left alive (9) halved (4,5) rounded up (5).
So do you still want me to claim my hand or is that now redundant?It's not necessary I think. I just needed it in case iguana didn't have a C card.
We lynch LaLight, then there will be only 8 players left alive.I will leave the remaining actions for each person to decide on their own. Note that we are guaranteed to block the scum nightkill unless iguana is scum, in which case he will out himself by not doing the C action.Don't we need 5 Cs? It's the number of players left alive (9) halved (4,5) rounded up (5).
vote: LaLightI think an issue is that it gets very hard for scum to maneuver the more town outnumbers them. In this way the setup is quite swingy.
It seems like you did break the setup to some point, and it's not even that complicated.
Vote: LaLightWell, scum did start with a strong number (4/14) to make up for it. But yeah, they needed to swing the game decisively in their favor early on, and the gkrieg lynch crippled them.
I think having any standard way that town can just blanketly stop a NK is a little unbalanced. But we still haven't technically caught all the scum... so let's not get too ahead of ourselves
vote: LaLight!!
It seems like you did break the setup to some point, and it's not even that complicated.
1) block the night kill with Blue C
2) Lift up withLift ALift B
3) Track EFHW withLift BLift A
EFHW did not target anyone last night.
I got cards from silverspawn. Thanks!
Now my hand is: (Lift-A), (Lift-B), (Red-A) + 5 new: (Lift-C), (Red-B), (Lift-B), (Red-B), (Red-A)
I would like to say that despite Faust's tunneling and my lack of interest in this game, I have been objectively towny. I've been on both scum lynches, and have used the suspicion on me in order to travel up to the upper deck and try to get useful results on people I suspect. It also appears that I helped blocked the nightkill last night.
So let's not lynch me, but maybe someone objectively scummy like EFHW or Awaclus.
How am I objectively scummy?
I did zone monitoring three times. Do I have to claim more at this point?I'd say it can wait.
I've been on both scum lynchesYeah, props for being on the LaLight lynch ::)
iguana is correct that I had no targets. I tried to give myself cards but forgot to specify a target. Moved to white, got printout. Cop confirmed.Can you please state the complete printout now?
I don't think claim order is all that important at this point. Theorel is town, I copped him because I couldn't bring myself to trust him.Not too much, but I wanted to keep the game moving and was worried it might not happen if I don't post an order before going to sleep.
3) cop theorel, result townMan I wish you chose another target. theorel was my strongest townread.
I zone monitored Awaclus, and tried (but failed) to get a printout.
I'm now central white with 2 C's.
That was it.iguana is correct that I had no targets. I tried to give myself cards but forgot to specify a target. Moved to white, got printout. Cop confirmed.Can you please state the complete printout now?
How am I objectively scummy?
Because everyone else is town?
Who else should I vote for?
It doesn't make sense to vote for RR while iguana is still alive...How am I objectively scummy?
Because everyone else is town?
Who else should I vote for?
RR
It doesn't make sense to vote for RR while iguana is still alive...How am I objectively scummy?
Because everyone else is town?
Who else should I vote for?
RR
For reference here are all the claims (well technically faust hasn't claimed, but this is what he said he'd do yesterday, and not blocking the nk seems like an awful chance to take)Just for the sake of completeness, you are correct.
Um...so iguana is caught in a lie right (I've gotten this wrong so many times this game).Good work! I can't believe we're finally lynching iguana. This has been a long time coming.
He claims to have tracked, EFHW claims he didn't.
But ALSO, there's still 1 energy in white, so he can only track if EFHW also lied about getting a printout at all.
But I tried to get a printout and failed, so I can confirm that SOMEONE got a printout.
So...iguana is seemingly lying about tracking, both by printout and energy.
Just to double-check no errors on energy readings?
I did, but at that point you had already said we should stop with the setup talk.I know it's an unusual proposition, but you could just read the setup and then participate!I had no idea Awaclus was playing until just now.It was a bit pointless to participate in setup talk when I didn't have even the faintest recollection of what the setup was.
Okay, I mean after a bit of thinking it turns out that Awaclus' play is just plain stupid as either alignment. So I guess that points to town!anti-town!Awaclus.I shouldn't have confirmed Skumpy's roleblock claim?
But, Awaclus, can you now release the info on red actions, as I don't suppose we will get any more claims?Should I just claim the full status print-out?
I did zone monitoring three times. Do I have to claim more at this point?
I didn't particularly care about that.However, I didn't have any red cards so that was impossible.But it takes exactly how much thought to realize that Skumpy was going to try to use the Lift, and you were blocking him?
I'm mentioning this because it seems out of character to me.
oh my heavens there must be some error for i am indeed towwwnNow I'm convinced.
So is theorel's plan the plan?Yep.
Vote Count 2.finalAssuming that not all his partners voted for gkrieg, this only leaves RR and silver as potential scum.gkrieg13 (7): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, LaLight, Awaclus, faust, Skumpy, EFHW
Awaclus (2): gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
theorel (1): silverspawn
faust (1): Haddock
Not Voting (1): theorel
With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
It certainly doesn't only leave e and me as potential scum because there's at most 1 scum between us.Well there's only 1 scum left, so I don't see how that's a problem.
And it's not the player who townslipped twice!It certainly doesn't only leave e and me as potential scum because there's at most 1 scum between us.Well there's only 1 scum left, so I don't see how that's a problem.
Okay, well if e can't cop, we get at most 2 cop results tonight, so that's unfortunate.
New suggested night actions:
e goes blue, lifts down, plays C
roadrunner pulls energy, moves to white, plays C
faust cops silver (lift then red)
silver lifts up, cops e, does whatever
I fill white, play 2 C's
EFHW plays central C, moves red, fills energy
Awaclus comes center, gets a printout, refills energy
I think faust's argument that all 3 scum wouldn't have been on gkrieg's wagon is plausible, but we shouldn't take it too far. I certainly wouldn't rule out Awaclus just based on that. And I'd want more reasons that just that to suspect silver. I guess we'll be getting that information tonight.Okay, well if e can't cop, we get at most 2 cop results tonight, so that's unfortunate.
New suggested night actions:
e goes blue, lifts down, plays C
roadrunner pulls energy, moves to white, plays C
faust cops silver (lift then red)
silver lifts up, cops e, does whatever
I fill white, play 2 C's
EFHW plays central C, moves red, fills energy
Awaclus comes center, gets a printout, refills energy
And if we do this plan, then we should have good reason to decide between rr and silver.
So pending results from people I will vote anyone except theorelBut I'm semi-confirmed town... and EFHW too.
I copped silver. He's town.
I still believe in the Cop Switch :)I copped silver. He's town.
told you! :)
Vote: RR
It sounds like e has us covered. People early in the order can cop.works for me.
Don't we just win here? e can block the kill so we'll have a simple majority of ICs on D8.Well yes, it's been rather clear to me for a while that we're going to win. I kinda wish that the remaining scum would just throw the towel so we don't have to go throguh all the steps.
I'm sure they agree with you.
I think after seeing it played out there are a few changes that could be made to make the setup work.
scum fakeclaiming was impossible since it took an action to do the NK. Makes it hard for scum to say "I did X, Y, and Z" when Y was the NK and you will eventually be caught in a lie. So, make the scum NK and factional rather than individual. That or only allow town to do 2/3 actions and then scum can use the third as the NK action. So, I did "X, nothing, Z" is a standard claim, but scum could actually do "X, NK, Z"
Almost anything we thought of doing was easily discoverable. Town just had too much information. We got three mislynches and didn't come close to winning.We also made some significant mistakes, for sure. But it was pretty much doomed once everyone got belowdecks. It's fun to play this kind of game as town because you finally have information to work with after all the usual games of shooting in the dark (so to speak). Turns out it's less fun as scum! There were so many interacting pieces. That was neat - I like complexity - but it also meant any action we took or didn't take could be verified/detected in several ways - energy, cards, location, availability of an action for other players, status print out, tracking, lifts. Town made the most of the tools available to them. They played well.
I think after seeing it played out there are a few changes that could be made to make the setup work.I don't think it is too town-favored. If scum gets the first two mislynches, then town will never be able to effectively coordinate. But scum needs to lock in the game early; they cannot afford to bus. That all scum lynched gkrieg was an error in judgement. How good it looked didn't make up for the fact that it gave town more time.
scum fakeclaiming was impossible since it took an action to do the NK. Makes it hard for scum to say "I did X, Y, and Z" when Y was the NK and you will eventually be caught in a lie. So, make the scum NK and factional rather than individual. That or only allow town to do 2/3 actions and then scum can use the third as the NK action. So, I did "X, nothing, Z" is a standard claim, but scum could actually do "X, NK, Z"
I enjoyed the setup after I figured it out, but I think town was always going to win (seeing how it played out)
Scum should be able to have enough choices to weather one loss. I really don't see how you can say the game didn't favor town.Scum starts out with really good numbers (4/14) to make up for the fact that they have limited options in the long run. It's just that they've gotta use this to decide the game early on. Like, if the first 2 mislynches are on town, I don't see town managing a win here. It's just that the required scum play here is to not play for towncred, and that was difficult to see from the beginning.
You thought I was semi-confirmed town and I still had no option but to concede.
If you're town then you should stop faking stupid townslips in the game that I am modding while making genuine townslips in the other we are playing together.
If you're town then you should stop faking stupid townslips in the game that I am modding while making genuine townslips in the other we are playing together.
This is pretty crappy though, if you're actually trying to win both games and not just playing one for the sake of looking better in the other.
If you're town then you should stop faking stupid townslips in the game that I am modding while making genuine townslips in the other we are playing together.
This is pretty crappy though, if you're actually trying to win both games and not just playing one for the sake of looking better in the other.
Does it violate the rule about not talking about ongoing games?