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[EFHW]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

Scumslip.

If another town member got a vig item, they could have shot him.
If another scum faction (SK or WW) exists, they could have shot him hunting the other team, which they would know exists after seeing the flip.

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

You sound like you know there are scum other than mafia.

[faust]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

Scumslip.

If another town member got a vig item, they could have shot him.
If another scum faction (SK or WW) exists, they could have shot him hunting the other team, which they would know exists after seeing the flip.

I doubt that the same power would exist in 2 different items, and I also doubt that one item would just be a stronger version of another. One of these would have to be the case in order for there to be another town vig.

I think a third party would be concerned about power balance, and with the lynch town did definitely have the momentum. Plus it serves a third party to have town going around looking for partners of Raptor, that takes pressure off of them, so they don't want to narrow that pool.

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

[faust]

And by the way:

Vote: scolapasta

We can't go too wrong by lynching among the three people that were on neither mail-mi nor Raptor when the Day ended, but ash and Jimmmmm are townier.

This can definately go wrong.

Any better suggestions?

Talking things through.

I don't remember when I told everyone to shut up and start voting for scolapasta. I'm prefectly able to talk about things while also voting for someone who I think is scum.

Why do you object to my vote, but not to others that were also placed before things were talked through?

[faust]

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

I read it again and I think you are trying to say is that I thought mail-mi was town, right? And thus that I shot him, and am scum?

So you already started third party hunting?

[faust]

Also note that there was a "probably" in my original statement. So, you know, I acknowledge the other options, I just think they're less likely.

[Lekkit]

And by the way:

Vote: scolapasta

We can't go too wrong by lynching among the three people that were on neither mail-mi nor Raptor when the Day ended, but ash and Jimmmmm are townier.

This can definately go wrong.

Any better suggestions?

Talking things through.

I don't remember when I told everyone to shut up and start voting for scolapasta. I'm prefectly able to talk about things while also voting for someone who I think is scum.

Why do you object to my vote, but not to others that were also placed before things were talked through?

I'm not really objecting to your vote. I'm objecting to the idea that we have to lynch someone who wasn't on mail-mi or Raptor.

[MiX]

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

I read it again and I think you are trying to say is that I thought mail-mi was town, right? And thus that I shot him, and am scum?

So you already started third party hunting?

Given that raptor said "scummate" instead of "scummates", it's at least possible there's no more mafia.

PPE: You think all of scum was on the scum wagons? I'm sure at least one was on me, and that's where we should look. But not just at the final vote count, some before it are better. For example, mail-mi's hammer shouldn't matter at all.

[faust]

I'm not really objecting to your vote. I'm objecting to the idea that we have to lynch someone who wasn't on mail-mi or Raptor.

On what grounds though? I mean obvously "have to lynch" is a pretty strong wording that outright dismisses other options. It's also a wording I never used.

Do you think we are more likely to find scum on the wagon? Who do you think is scum?

[faust]

Given that raptor said "scummate" instead of "scummates", it's at least possible there's no more mafia.

PPE: You think all of scum was on the scum wagons? I'm sure at least one was on me, and that's where we should look. But not just at the final vote count, some before it are better. For example, mail-mi's hammer shouldn't matter at all.

I think we can chalk the "scummate" comment up to the fact that he actually had a single partner to talk to in his district for the duration of D1.

And yes, mail-mi's hammer shouldn't matter in our vote count analysis. Because mail-mi is dead.

[Lekkit]

I'm not really objecting to your vote. I'm objecting to the idea that we have to lynch someone who wasn't on mail-mi or Raptor.

On what grounds though? I mean obvously "have to lynch" is a pretty strong wording that outright dismisses other options. It's also a wording I never used.

Do you think we are more likely to find scum on the wagon? Who do you think is scum?

Sure, I worded it poorly. Regardless, I don't think it's good to just focus on the people who weren't on those two wagons.

[LaLight]

I could actually see the trident being a protective item- 1-shot bp maybe? Doesn’t Finnick use it to like pull away other people’s weapons?

I’m highly suspicious of LaLight. The character’s name is Foxface, not Foxears, and I don’t see Swan getting that wrong.

So you think LaLight just made it up without doing any research?

I think more likely LaLight is just sharing the role they got

Just seems more likely to me that LaLight would look something up on a wiki and get it wrong than get their PM wrong.

Also, not sure Motion Detector actually makes any sense with LaLight’s softclaim in #333. It’s not a terribly powerful role, especially in RMM.

How exactly could I look something on Wiki? Try googling Fox Ears, I am not that dumb

Also I did claim to have a powerful role to draw the nightkill, this was the plan all along

[LaLight]

Talking about mistakes, Swan made a mistake in my original QT as well, until I, as well, pointed it out

[ashersky]

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

I read it again and I think you are trying to say is that I thought mail-mi was town, right? And thus that I shot him, and am scum?

So you already started third party hunting?

I am saying that if you/your team killed mm last night, it was because you thought he was town and expected everyone else to think he was town.  Hammering scum generally does that, and one less lynch option on the table is generally bad for scum.  It's why scum likes to (in general) remove ICs and very towny players from the board in general.

That's all fine thinking for a scum team.  Right or wrong, it is definitely common.  You laid that out as the most likely reasoning behind the killing -- in thread.  I am saying that you did that because you also did it last night, in your scum QT.

That's why I said it was a scumslip.

[MiX]

Talking about mistakes, Swan made a mistake in my original QT as well, until I, as well, pointed it out

Same here. Also I was the cause for the "delay" this night.

[ashersky]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

Scumslip.

If another town member got a vig item, they could have shot him.
If another scum faction (SK or WW) exists, they could have shot him hunting the other team, which they would know exists after seeing the flip.

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

You sound like you know there are scum other than mafia.

I think there are as of today.  Someone killed mm and it wasn't mm's faction.  It supposedly wasn't 2.7, who may or may not be town, but either way, someone shot.

So, the only options are town killing role, non-mafia scum, or own-team kill.  Remove the third option because it's ridiculous, and we are left with the only two that make sense.

If 2.7 is town vig and didn't shoot, other scum faction did.
If 2.7 is town vig and did shoot, he lied, which seems problematic.
If 2.7 is lying about being a vig, a hidden town vig or other scum faction did the kill.

The mafia kill was blocked/doctored/delayed.  Someone else killed mafia.  I'm assuming it wasn't town until town owns up to it, so yes, I am playing as if there is another scum faction out there.

(Note, in all cases, other scum faction can be 1 or 2 players -- SK is still a scum faction)

[ashersky]

I mean, someone posited 2.7 was lying from the get-go to cover his scum NK.  So that's still possible, and he wouldn't have been partners with mm.

Shooting your own partner with your NK at night is about the riskiest move possible and it is hard to see any positive reasoning -- you don't get the cred a hammer does, for one.

[MiX]

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

I read it again and I think you are trying to say is that I thought mail-mi was town, right? And thus that I shot him, and am scum?

So you already started third party hunting?

I am saying that if you/your team killed mm last night, it was because you thought he was town and expected everyone else to think he was town.  Hammering scum generally does that, and one less lynch option on the table is generally bad for scum.  It's why scum likes to (in general) remove ICs and very towny players from the board in general.

That's all fine thinking for a scum team.  Right or wrong, it is definitely common.  You laid that out as the most likely reasoning behind the killing -- in thread.  I am saying that you did that because you also did it last night, in your scum QT.

That's why I said it was a scumslip.

Did you start the game knowing faust is part of the other scumteam, or what, I don't remember a time where you weren't scumreading faust.

I do agree with you, I think overall scum would be thinking like faust. But I don't think that implies the reverse.

I mean, someone posited 2.7 was lying from the get-go to cover his scum NK.  So that's still possible, and he wouldn't have been partners with mm.

Shooting your own partner with your NK at night is about the riskiest move possible and it is hard to see any positive reasoning -- you don't get the cred a hammer does, for one.

But he didn't shoot, right?

[ashersky]

Did you start the game knowing faust is part of the other scumteam, or what, I don't remember a time where you weren't scumreading faust.

I do agree with you, I think overall scum would be thinking like faust. But I don't think that implies the reverse.

I mean, someone posited 2.7 was lying from the get-go to cover his scum NK.  So that's still possible, and he wouldn't have been partners with mm.

Shooting your own partner with your NK at night is about the riskiest move possible and it is hard to see any positive reasoning -- you don't get the cred a hammer does, for one.

But he didn't shoot, right?

I did not.  I am just very sure now, more sure than I was on D1.

2.7 claims he didn't shoot.  That's a defensible option to take.  Or he tried to shoot, but his victim wasn't MM and isn't dead, so doesn't know what's up and doesn't want to give info away.  Or other options.

[ashersky]

To be clear: I think town can lie and not be bad.  There are times when town lying makes sense.  I don't know if 2.7 is in that position now or not.

[faust]

Well, lucky us then. The interesting thing is that this means that the kill came from someone who probably thought that mail-mi was town.

Scumslip.

If another town member got a vig item, they could have shot him.
If another scum faction (SK or WW) exists, they could have shot him hunting the other team, which they would know exists after seeing the flip.

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

You sound like you know there are scum other than mafia.

I think there are as of today.  Someone killed mm and it wasn't mm's faction.  It supposedly wasn't 2.7, who may or may not be town, but either way, someone shot.

So, the only options are town killing role, non-mafia scum, or own-team kill.  Remove the third option because it's ridiculous, and we are left with the only two that make sense.

If 2.7 is town vig and didn't shoot, other scum faction did.
If 2.7 is town vig and did shoot, he lied, which seems problematic.
If 2.7 is lying about being a vig, a hidden town vig or other scum faction did the kill.

The mafia kill was blocked/doctored/delayed.  Someone else killed mafia.  I'm assuming it wasn't town until town owns up to it, so yes, I am playing as if there is another scum faction out there.

(Note, in all cases, other scum faction can be 1 or 2 players -- SK is still a scum faction)

Another option by the way is a town redirector.

[faust]

No reasons to automatically jump to "thought he was town" as the reason for the targeting unless you actually had that thought.  There were other, viable reasons for other scum to kill mm.

Yeah no kidding, I wouldn't say that thought unless I had it. That's some A+ detective work there.

I read it again and I think you are trying to say is that I thought mail-mi was town, right? And thus that I shot him, and am scum?

So you already started third party hunting?

I am saying that if you/your team killed mm last night, it was because you thought he was town and expected everyone else to think he was town.  Hammering scum generally does that, and one less lynch option on the table is generally bad for scum.  It's why scum likes to (in general) remove ICs and very towny players from the board in general.

That's all fine thinking for a scum team.  Right or wrong, it is definitely common.  You laid that out as the most likely reasoning behind the killing -- in thread.  I am saying that you did that because you also did it last night, in your scum QT.

That's why I said it was a scumslip.

And if you agree that this is common reasoning, why do you think I would reason this way as scum, but not as town?

[faust]

I'm not really objecting to your vote. I'm objecting to the idea that we have to lynch someone who wasn't on mail-mi or Raptor.

On what grounds though? I mean obvously "have to lynch" is a pretty strong wording that outright dismisses other options. It's also a wording I never used.

Do you think we are more likely to find scum on the wagon? Who do you think is scum?

Sure, I worded it poorly. Regardless, I don't think it's good to just focus on the people who weren't on those two wagons.

Bolded for emphasis. I'm still hoping for an answer.

[faust]

ashersky: Since you operate under the assumption that there is a third party, do you think they would try to shoot mafia N1?

[cayvie]

I think there are as of today.  Someone killed mm and it wasn't mm's faction.  It supposedly wasn't 2.7, who may or may not be town, but either way, someone shot.

So, the only options are town killing role, non-mafia scum, or own-team kill.  Remove the third option because it's ridiculous, and we are left with the only two that make sense.

If 2.7 is town vig and didn't shoot, other scum faction did.
If 2.7 is town vig and did shoot, he lied, which seems problematic.
If 2.7 is lying about being a vig, a hidden town vig or other scum faction did the kill.

The mafia kill was blocked/doctored/delayed.  Someone else killed mafia.  I'm assuming it wasn't town until town owns up to it, so yes, I am playing as if there is another scum faction out there.

(Note, in all cases, other scum faction can be 1 or 2 players -- SK is still a scum faction)

There is also a re director possibility out there; that a lucky re director shot made the mafia kill each other.

Anyway, unvote, shraeye's story makes enough sense for me for now.

PPE: dang, faust came out swingin today

[A Drowned Kernel]

Also, 16 players means we're looking for, what, 4 mafia? 3 seems too weak and 5 seems like too much.

i would normally suspect multiball

but reading the forum has given me the impression that multiball has gone out of style here

oh yeah multiball is also a possibility.

So I'm in the midst of a reread and wanted to point out this conversation. It made me think that mail-mi may have been trying to sound out if there's a traitor

Or maybe it's just scum trying to look busy by doing setup talk and NAI