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[kipkoan]

I've just finished playing about 50 games against the Goko AI.  I made up my own deck for testing out different Chapel strategies:  Cellar, Chapel, Village, Woodcutter, Council Room, Festival, Laboratory, Library, Market, Adventurer

I think I've won about 10 times, and lost about 40.  And, the times I win are usually very close.

The wins I had usually looked something like this:  http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20121013/log.5079abc80cf28ed55d9d769a.1350182271569.txt  That's when I happened to get a 5/2 split, which seems to work better than the usual 4/3 splits.  Also, the AI went for an almost purely Big Money strategy (but added a Market on turn 10).  I still barely squeaked out a win at 30 to 24, in 14 turns (& I went first).

Usually I lost, though... and the games went more like this:  http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20121013/log.5079abc80cf28ed55d9d769a.1350180532116.txt or this: http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20121013/log.5079abc80cf28ed55d9d769a.1350181289249.txt

What am I doing wrong?  Or is this board/deck not very good for Chapel?

[ftl]

So, Chapel is good for getting combos or engines going. In the examples you posted, you're playing chapel+money - that's not a very good strategy and is, in fact, worse than just big money.

Here's an example game on that board. Not saying I played it optimally, but it was my first try. http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20121013/log.50612a9b51c36e573294bfd0.1350185548076.txt  Instead of using Chapel to buy golds, I used it to set up the Festival/Cellar/Library combo, for double-province turns.

[Grujah]

You are transitioning Chapel into Big Money. That makes Big Money weaker, it is better to just buy money and a drawer.

When you Chapel, you slow down. You won't catch up with buying money. When you Chapel, you need to transition into an engine, and one that can catch up fast. Meaning at least some of these: virtual money, additional actions, drawing and additional buys.

Edit: Ninja'd. And as you see, ftl there had virtual money, drawing, additional action and additional buys. And filtering effect on top.

[thirtyseven]

What ftl said--you should use Chapel to set up an engine, not just to buy money and Victory cards. In the first game (the game you won), you opened Lab/Chapel... Lab is not a good opening with Chapel because you don't need +Cards yet... a Festival is much more useful in the beginning here because it gives you the +Coin for you to buy engine parts even when you're trashing hands full of copper, and later on gives you the +2 Actions needed for your engine.

[ftl]

Here's a few more demo games if you want. One of them is another festival/library/cellar game http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20121013/log.50612a9b51c36e573294bfd0.1350186083429.txt , two are ones where I tried for just lab engines. http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20121013/log.50612a9b51c36e573294bfd0.1350186393807.txt http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20121013/log.50612a9b51c36e573294bfd0.1350186669420.txt .

Lab engine is trickier to set up. It's not as good, and it's so tempting to get provinces too early and that's a mistake, and the +cards/+actions, +buy, and +$ parts of the engine are more separated.

[kipkoan]

Thank you ftl, Grujah, & thirtyseven.  I clearly have a lot to learn.  I love this game... played it for the first time about a month ago.  Thanks again for the pointers... I now need to learn more about the different types of engines.

[popsofctown]

Is goko exposing more people to dominion? :0

[greatexpectations]

Thank you ftl, Grujah, & thirtyseven.  I clearly have a lot to learn.  I love this game... played it for the first time about a month ago.  Thanks again for the pointers... I now need to learn more about the different types of engines.

if you are interested in learning some strategy, i would encourage you to check out this post in our FAQ. there's a link in there to a thread about deck archetypes that you might be interested in flipping through.

[SirPeebles]

Thank you ftl, Grujah, & thirtyseven.  I clearly have a lot to learn.  I love this game... played it for the first time about a month ago.  Thanks again for the pointers... I now need to learn more about the different types of engines.

if you are interested in learning some strategy, i would encourage you to check out this post in our FAQ. there's a link in there to a thread about deck archetypes that you might be interested in flipping through.

That deck archetypes link seems to be mistakenly directing to Donald's guide to beating attacks.

[Tables]

...Lab is not a good opening with Chapel because you don't need +Cards yet... a Festival is much more useful in the beginning here because it gives you the +Coin for you to buy engine parts even when you're trashing hands full of copper, and later on gives you the +2 Actions needed for your engine.

This is not true. Lab is one of the better Chapel openings, because +cards is great for maximising the chance of landing your Chapel with lots of Estates and other cards you want to trash. You deck will probably not fall below about 6-7 cards, so having a Lab will never be bad. The base game has no $2 engine parts except Cellar, and with Chapel, that's a questionable early buy at best, so the Festival is not much better than a Silver until late.

[Rabid]

Lab also reduces the number of draws in which you fail to draw chapel on T3 or T4.

[thirtyseven]

...Lab is not a good opening with Chapel because you don't need +Cards yet... a Festival is much more useful in the beginning here because it gives you the +Coin for you to buy engine parts even when you're trashing hands full of copper, and later on gives you the +2 Actions needed for your engine.

This is not true. Lab is one of the better Chapel openings, because +cards is great for maximising the chance of landing your Chapel with lots of Estates and other cards you want to trash. You deck will probably not fall below about 6-7 cards, so having a Lab will never be bad. The base game has no $2 engine parts except Cellar, and with Chapel, that's a questionable early buy at best, so the Festival is not much better than a Silver until late.

After trying a solo game opening Lab/Chapel, you're right. My main concern was not being able to buy a Silver before you accidentally trash too many Copper, but I'm not worried about that anymore. Hey, I learned something today!

Thank you ftl, Grujah, & thirtyseven.  I clearly have a lot to learn.  I love this game... played it for the first time about a month ago.  Thanks again for the pointers... I now need to learn more about the different types of engines.

You're welcome, even though I was wrong! The awesome thing about this game is that we all have a lot to learn about it! I hope you don't get discouraged but rather keep on playing and getting better, little by little. I recommend you do read the FAQ that greatexpectations set up for us, for starters. Also, don't be intimidated by playing a high-ranked player... play them to learn good strategy and tactics.

[Rabid]

http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20121013/log.5079abc80cf28ed55d9d769a.1350181289249.txt

---------- kipkoan: turn 7 ----------
kipkoan - plays Market
kipkoan - shuffles deck
kipkoan - draws Chapel
kipkoan - plays Chapel
kipkoan - trashes Estate, Copper, Estate
kipkoan - plays 1 Silver
kipkoan - draws Silver
kipkoan - shuffles deck
kipkoan - shuffles deck
kipkoan - draws Market, Chapel, Silver

Here you should have trashed 2 estates and bought Silver, leaving a deck of Market, Chapel, Silver, Silver, Copper. Only 5 cards so you will draw them all and have $6 for a gold.

Also you can keep 1 silver in you final deck, the 1st silver is as good as gold for getting to $8 or $5.

So on Turn 11 I think you should trash nothing buy Provence.
---------- kipkoan: turn 11 ----------
kipkoan - plays Market
kipkoan - shuffles deck
kipkoan - plays Chapel
kipkoan - trashes Silver
kipkoan - plays 2 Gold
kipkoan - gains Gold
kipkoan - shuffles deck
kipkoan - draws Gold, Gold, Gold, Chapel, Market