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[shraeye]

Ahoppy seems to believe that if one has a one-shot power, then they lose the ability to send items.  This reads to me as something Ahoppy knows, and not merely speculation.  Xeiron claims to be one-shot, yet still be able to send items after using his power.

I think this is worth discussing.

Nope, not what I think. I was curious to know why someone would use a one shot role on someone if they don't have any basis for looking at a certain person. In xerion's case, I think it made sense. I can accept his response to my question although that does not bring him to an auto town read. But for now, unvote until I have more time to devote to this.

Hey look, I fixed AHoppy's quote-fail.

nkirbit, is that misinterpretation the thing that gave you the ridiculous town-read on AHoppy before?

[AHoppy]

Wow, epic quotefail on my part.  this is why I don't try to post quotes from my phone...
here's what I meant to say:

He says this like it's no big deal if we lynch a PR.  It still is, especially if it's a super powerful role like cop or doctor.  Additionally, EFHW brought up at some point that most of our roles are probably going to be 1-shot based on the fact that we can create our own PR's.  People thought this meant that our PR's we create are going to be 1-shot.  While this makes a lot of sense, I think it's more important to note that most of our initial PR's are probably 1-shot.  If we're able to give ourselves a PR every night, I feel like an unlimited PR would be way OP. This being said, if ash is an investigative role, I'm not sure he would use up his 1 shot night 0.  This also includes losing whatever item(s) ash is capable of giving away.  Long story short, I don't like how unconcerned xerion is with a mislynch. 

Why did you decided to use your one shot cop on N0?

1. So I could send items to someone right from the start knowing they are town. (If they showed scum I would have them lynched D1)
2. To get a reliable read, as I believe any redirectors, framers or other roles that messes with results would be more likely to appear later in the game if they exists in this game at all. In RMM7 scum won by messing with the cop.
3. I hoped I would get other fancy roles to use later in the game.

Ahoppy seems to believe that if one has a one-shot power, then they lose the ability to send items.  This reads to me as something Ahoppy knows, and not merely speculation.  Xeiron claims to be one-shot, yet still be able to send items after using his power.

I think this is worth discussing.

Nope, not what I think. I was curious to know why someone would use a one shot role on someone if they don't have any basis for looking at a certain person. In xerion's case, I think it made sense. I can accept his response to my question although that does not bring him to an auto town read. But for now, unvote until I have more time to devote to this.

[nkirbit]

Okay, well, I was misreading Ahoppy.  And that was my main concern about lynching Ahoppy from earlier:  I thought he had info about what happened when a player used a X-shot role, and X-shot roles are much, much more commonly associated with town players than scum players.

I do think that Xeiron's claim is not complete, but that doesn't necessarily implicate him as scum.

I am re-thinking my scum-read on him.  He has still done a lot of odd things, but I am less sure they're because he's scum at this point.  Still a scumread, but not a rock-solid one like before.

[xeiron]

I had hoped to avoid this.

I am a cop (one-shot)

I investigatedeevee and he is town

Why avoid it if you are one-shot?  We (I) could have avoided quite a lot of trouble if you had claimed earlier.  Why should we believe you now?

I wanted to avoid claiming beacause I would like scum to know nothing about me and my powers.

You should believe me because if eevee is scum, then I am as well. And if I am scum you will get my flip before it's to late, as popular opinion seems to be to lynch me if I do not deliver with my plan.

[EFHW]

I think in this instance your claim was necessary.  I'm very excited to see how it affects what others are saying - since I believe you are more-likely-than-not town, this gives me all sorts of fun to reread  how everybody felt about eevee (and of course I invite rereads of my own thoughts re: eevee as well).  Offhand, this encourages suspicion of TA/nkirbit (though does not necessarily call them out as scum), and I guess makes me look a bit scummy myself (as I was willing to drop the hammer later).

Or we could WIFOM and you're arguing that you had one-shot cop when you're really just buddying to get your scumpartner Eevee out of the way...

I don't think we get any information out of this.  Eevee was being scummy and you can't suspect people for noticing that.  If he isn't actually scum, then it wasted a whole of time and effort for xeiron not to tell us.  It sets us way back with respect to the deadline as there isn't really another lynch that looks good and it will take time to find one.

His refusal to give reads is frustrating, too.  Is it just too much trouble?

[Twistedarcher]

Unvote

Initial reaction is to believe this but I need to think about it. I'm thinking it's probably true though.

Regardless, though:

I believe Eevee is no longer a viable lynch target. If we're lynching him, we're saying that we think Eevee is scum, AND Xeiron is lying scum, as well. There are instances where Xeiron could be scum, but Eevee isn't (Xeiron is making this up to gain town cred if Eevee flips town). The only instance where Xeiron is town but Eevee is scum is if Eevee is godfather.

This being said, if we don't believe the claim, we should 100% lynch Xeiron, not Eevee. Eevee should not be lynched today.

[raerae]

No need for sarcasm.  I shared an impression.  Questions are just fine, often helpful.  More opinions and reasoning would be even better.

I'm sorry.  Have we met?  I'm a bowl full of sarcasm shoved in a box full of sass.  You're going to get some of both when you try to paint me negatively with flimsy "impressions" like that.  And, for the record, I find it super interesting that you didn't respond to the deadline part of that response.

Xeiron: You haven't ever answered this: If you didn't want to repeat D1 RMM7, why have you claimed twice already this D1?

[Twistedarcher]

Okay, well, I was misreading Ahoppy.  And that was my main concern about lynching Ahoppy from earlier:  I thought he had info about what happened when a player used a X-shot role, and X-shot roles are much, much more commonly associated with town players than scum players.

I do think that Xeiron's claim is not complete, but that doesn't necessarily implicate him as scum.

I am re-thinking my scum-read on him.  He has still done a lot of odd things, but I am less sure they're because he's scum at this point.  Still a scumread, but not a rock-solid one like before.

What evidence do you have for this?

[EFHW]

No need for sarcasm.  I shared an impression.  Questions are just fine, often helpful.  More opinions and reasoning would be even better.

I'm sorry.  Have we met?  I'm a bowl full of sarcasm shoved in a box full of sass.  You're going to get some of both when you try to paint me negatively with flimsy "impressions" like that.  And, for the record, I find it super interesting that you didn't respond to the deadline part of that response.

Xeiron: You haven't ever answered this: If you didn't want to repeat D1 RMM7, why have you claimed twice already this D1?

I suggested Monday but shraeye shot it down.  It was never agreed on.

[nkirbit]

Okay, well, I was misreading Ahoppy.  And that was my main concern about lynching Ahoppy from earlier:  I thought he had info about what happened when a player used a X-shot role, and X-shot roles are much, much more commonly associated with town players than scum players.

I do think that Xeiron's claim is not complete, but that doesn't necessarily implicate him as scum.

I am re-thinking my scum-read on him.  He has still done a lot of odd things, but I am less sure they're because he's scum at this point.  Still a scumread, but not a rock-solid one like before.

What evidence do you have for this?

I don't have any evidence, really.  Just an impression I have through reading games.  The only X-shot mafia role I can remember from reading is jimmmm's jack of all trades role in LOTR.  But 1 shot vig, 2 shot commuter, x shot cop, and other x shot roles seem to have shown up more often than mafia x shot roles. 

[xeiron]

No need for sarcasm.  I shared an impression.  Questions are just fine, often helpful.  More opinions and reasoning would be even better.

I'm sorry.  Have we met?  I'm a bowl full of sarcasm shoved in a box full of sass.  You're going to get some of both when you try to paint me negatively with flimsy "impressions" like that.  And, for the record, I find it super interesting that you didn't respond to the deadline part of that response.

Xeiron: You haven't ever answered this: If you didn't want to repeat D1 RMM7, why have you claimed twice already this D1?

By "do not want to repeat" I mean "do not softcaiming stuff based on a not-so-great case, and continue to leak way to much information, while coming out as inconsistent and scummy, and in the end getting myself lynched witch aslo causes the death of my town lover"

I am fine with claiming as long as it does more good than bad. It did not in RMM6.

[xeiron]

One hour to soft deadline. We should try to make it.
I think mail-mi is the best option we have, as a low-profile player that are scummy.
If we cannot agree on who is most scummy, we should go for an no lynch.
It is not a bad option in this game.

60 pages are too much for D1, and we have nothing to gain on making it 70.

[nkirbit]

Vote: AHoppy

My major concern is now gone.

[chairs]

Unvote

Initial reaction is to believe this but I need to think about it. I'm thinking it's probably true though.

Regardless, though:

I believe Eevee is no longer a viable lynch target. If we're lynching him, we're saying that we think Eevee is scum, AND Xeiron is lying scum, as well. There are instances where Xeiron could be scum, but Eevee isn't (Xeiron is making this up to gain town cred if Eevee flips town). The only instance where Xeiron is town but Eevee is scum is if Eevee is godfather.

This being said, if we don't believe the claim, we should 100% lynch Xeiron, not Eevee. Eevee should not be lynched today.

Agreed, Eevee is now the lease beneficial lynch.  EFHW, although we don't agree much, is at least very foreground (much more so than myself, certainly) so I'd hate to see that opportunity for more discussion lost, and AHoppy's been roughly as background as I've been, with the added oddity of showing up right as concerns have been raised regarding said backgroundiness.  I still think we've got the best collection of potential lynches here, and if my choices are down to EFHW or AHoppy...

Vote: AHoppy

[ashersky]

Feel free to join me on EFHW.  I was right about X/Eevee, after all.

[raerae]

Still on AHoppy.  Come on, kids, let's get this done.

[Twistedarcher]

Vote: Ahoppy

Lynch needs to happen, and now that Nkirbit's reservation is gone, and Eevee's not a viable target, I'm comfortable with him as our day 1 lynch.

[Twistedarcher]

L-2 now

[ashersky]

60 pages in and what's this awesome case on Ahoppy?  Lurking?  We can do better.

[EFHW]

unvote

[EFHW]

unvote

[raerae]

Read words, Ash.  It's far more than lurking.

I'm kind of in the same boat as theorel - none of the wagons presented are particularly appealing.  However, I'm willing to take a bad lynch over no lynch, I suppose.  I'd like to see some (polite, calm) arguments for/against eevee and efhw cases to see if I can be swayed to either, but I'm leaning towards the relatively-quiet Ahoppy at the moment.

I think most of the case on Ahoppy is he's a lurker and not scum hunting, correct? That's how he played in Mean Girls. The stuff he did previously when I voted was certainly fishy, but it's true that he jumped on Eevee, and not EFHW, when EFHW had the most votes.

It's not just that he's being quiet and backgroundy.  I think that is a large strike against him.  But also, when you review his posts, he spent the early part of today talking about theory while there was plenty of scumhunting going on to talk about.  After many posts about items/no-lynch, AHoppy posts this:

I think TA has hit it on the nose. I think today we should work on more scum hunting and less on the items. I like the items, I think it's cool, but I also think they could serve as a distraction from the big goal:kill scum. And I think scum could use that to their advantage

saying we should focus more on scumhunting. 

His next 3 posts are all about items and theory, and the third finishes with this

However, I should remind people that we do need to get to scum hunting.

His next post (#284) is really the first that he tries to do anything in the way of scumhunting.  And all he does is call out lurkers; also misremembering who was fightign with Twisted at that point (it was me, but he said raerae).  He really isn't focused on any arguments, or any scumhunting at this point.  Finally he starts coming in with some reads about people starting from #554, but since then he's only had 15 posts.

The second point against AHoppy, is that in addition to being relatively absent, he continually pops up when his name is mentioned. raerae had a post about this earlier.  In addition, Ahoppy comes back after a large break apologizing for being absent, and it comes within half-hour of me voting for him, and also Eevee noting that nobody has noticed AHoppy in ages.  His last post before then was more than 2 days ago.  Vacations are vacations, I understand.  But as newer scum confused in a game with some pretty loud voices, there is a lot of incentive to stretch those absences until he gets nervous by many people mentioning his name.

Here is raerae's post to this effect.

shraeye, AHoppy was a pretty frequent poster at the start of the game but then went MIA when talk started to turn away from theory.  EFHW noted that with this post and AHoppy's response was the very next post.  (NOTE: Most posts have been trimmed for spacing.)

No idea: X, -- and I have to look up to see who else is playing -- chairs, Ahoppy, nkirbit.  Would love to hear from you guys!

Sorry, I've been a little busy. I'm planning on rereading and posting my thoughts tonight.

Then nothing for a bit but this...

Alright, I'm about to start my re-read, I'll post thoughts when I finish

EFHW is again the one to notice the under-contributing AHoppy.

Chairs is v/la, Ahoppy hasn't been back.  We haven't heard from raerae or shraeye or theorel much today.  So nothing new to say there.

And BOOM! three posts later the man himself shows up with something that almost resembles reads but really doesn't give opinions on folks.

Again promises read when theorel points out his previous reread post didn't actually contain reads.

I'll get my re-reads when I'm not on mobile. But theorel, I find it strange that you put out your scum reads, and then vote for your number 2. Why not your number 1?

Finally posts a real read re: SB & TA and fell on the side of seeing SB as scummy.

[EFHW]

Vote Count 1.efhw

EFHW (1) ashersky
Eevee (2) theorel, mail-mi
AHoppy (5) shraeye, raerae, Twistedarcher, nkirbit, chairs {L-2}
mail-mi (2) xeiron, Eevee

Not Voting: (2) AHoppy, EFHW

[shraeye]

Yup, I pieced together that case on him earlier.  There is definitely more than "lurking".

[Twistedarcher]

60 pages in and what's this awesome case on Ahoppy?  Lurking?  We can do better.

We need this game to end. We need the time for later and we need this game to not be a giant albatross.

Personally, I don't like the EFHW case, I won't lynch Raerae or Nkirbit or Mail-mi, don't like Xeiron or Eevee anymore, think we have less on Chairs than on Ahoppy. Only other lynches I'll consider are Theorel, Ashersky, and maaaaaybe Shraeye (don't have a scum read, have shockingly little memory on his views / points compared to usual).

I don't love the Ahoppy case, but I think it's sufficient for what we have right now, and we're wasting our time that will be better spent on another day if we spend another 3-4 days building more cases on people who may or may not get lynched.